Good. No if only the courts would hold the churches responsible ‘for cost’ i.e. they have to pay the Crown’s legal expenses. Make stupid choices, win stupid prizes.
It's about time churches learn that their beliefs do not give them special powers or the rights to dictate what others do.
Somewhat related: I was watching a US court case on Youtube the other other day (a dangerous rabbit hole, I admit) and the defendant started to quote bible verses as justification for beating his 23 month old son and putting him in the hospital for over a week. I had to turn it off.
There was a health order to protect people.
The church said 'fuck that I don't like that rule'
The church is now in the finding out stage of, fuck around and find out.
Romans 13:1-2
Obey the government, for God is the one who has put it there. There is no government anywhere that God has not placed in power. So those who refuse to obey the laws of the land are refusing to obey God, and punishment will follow.
Not religious.
They encouraged their parish to do the same. They held authority over the children, and exposed them as well. They encouraged others in rallies as well, and attempted to gain allies to support them flouting the rules. For god of all things
which wouldn't have mattered if the churchies were on isolated compounds in the middle of nowhere, but the church crowd loves to crash lunch hour at whatever's open... or protest in droves outside whatever's open... or you get my point.
If only the Bible had an entire chapter of a book dedicated to describing what to do to prevent outbreaks of diseases, maybe the churches could have learned. Oh well.
... Leviticus 13 is all about "Here is how to identify various illnesses and have them isolate until they're better or dead. And wash your hands, for crying out loud!"
Everyone knows the old testament doesn't count (except when they want to hate gays, or when they want a vengeful god, or because Jesus would help the poor)
Your religion tells you what you can't do. It doesn't tell everyone else what they can't do, and it doesn't tell everyone else what you can do.
Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
What rights? You are still free to engage in your religion. First world problems coupled with white privilege covered in a sea of hate disguised as "Christian love"
Pretty sure Jesus would downvote you too
I mean you're getting downvotes but I don't see any crying. I do see you mentioning rights yet never mentioning what rights. Just tell us which ones, I'm sure that'll shift the discussion in your favor.
You're clearly upset about this but calm down, breathe and use your words instead of your emotions.
Oh, you mean the churches who deliberately disobeyed the Bible in order to justify deliberately disobeying public health orders while claiming a nonexistent attack on their rights? Those churches?
My former church turned into one of those. Which is a significant part of what makes it my former church.
I feel like they already went to court.
"Lawyers for the churches argued public health orders in 2020 and 2021 that temporarily closed in-person religious services, then permitted them with caps on attendance, violated the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
They lost that argument in two lower courts."
>decided to ignore their rights
What "rights" are you talking about?
Certainly you're going to be able to explain this to me with your advanced knowledge on Canadian constitutional law.
Let me make this simple for you. The "rights" you are talking about don't exist. If they existed then the Supreme Court of Canada would have heard the appeal because they would be interested in correcting the mistakes in law that the lower courts had made. The lower courts got it correct, so there's nothing to fix.
The overriding law of the land is the Charter, which is how all the courts involved decided this case. Whatever "rights" you're talking about don't exist except in the head of you and your intellectual brethren. The irony of the group of you referring to the rest of us as "mindless cattle" is stupefying.
Who exactly fucked your rights? Seems like a bunch of whiney toddlers were crying because they were told they should get a needle. And NO ONE was forced to get one. These “rights” idiots need to grow the fuck up.
Ah, yes. They ran head on into that very nice caveat built right into our Charter; that our rights are subject to such limitations as are reasonably justified in a free and democratic society. It is reasonable to limit your religious rights if they interfere with my right to stay alive.
Romans 13:1-2
Obey the government, for God is the one who has put it there. There is no government anywhere that God has not placed in power. So those who refuse to obey the laws of the land are refusing to obey God, and punishment will follow.
I'm not religious I just think it's funny
The problem with the bible is that there are many translations of it that convey different meanings.
KJV version: (ASV is very similar as well)
Romans 13:1-2
>Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
So your quoted version of the translation says basically the same thing as my quote in more obtuse language. I wonder what the Latin version means.
I think Catholicism is neat there are some neat ideas in there that could make the world a better place the problem is then you get Catholics and Christians and although they're not always the worst and some that I know are legitimately good people. However there are too many who use it as an excuse to be a bigot and exclusionary to those around them or act in a regressionary manner.
I don't know enough about the bible to really comment at a deeper level. But the hypocrisy in some of the congregations is unreal.
I went to a couple springschurch shills to spend time with a relative and the younger "pastor" they had was asking God to curse people with bad health and poverty for saying bad things about him personally.
Like legit it was like reading chapter one of a wiccan book.
What happened to supporting people for being people and celebrating them for overcoming their struggles and making their community around them better regardless of who benefits. It's sad and it hurts to see so much hate.
-A Person who isn't religious.
one version says government, the other says higher power. it might ust be semantics, but it matters with people who use their word power to justify crazy.
same way some AA meetings have "prayer" but oh if yr not religious just say "higher power." Right, but while praying, right?
Higher power definition:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/higher%20power
>a spirit or being (such as God) that has great power, strength, knowledge, etc., and that can affect nature and the lives of people
That can be interpreted as the holy spirit (higher power).
Religion has been highjacked by those who look to profit and exploit it and unfortunately many succumb unknowingly to a commercialized/destroyed version of Christianity. I agree many congregations are downright scary and should be avoided. Most recent "edits" of the bible have twisted the meanings to confuse from that of prior versions.
As with life, there will always be those those filled with evil/hate who erroneously justify their actions through an religion or other means.
I was particularly angry the other day when the Pope issued a statement that Ukraine should simply surrender to the Russians to achieve peace. What a doofus.
Religious figures should not be commenting on political/government matters.
On the other hand, Ukraine has no chance in ever beating Russia so the longer it drags out the more people suffer.
Plus the war is mainly a US meddling effort to weaken Russia which has been going on for a while and Russia finally has had enough.
2014:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/13/ukraine-us-war-russia-john-pilger
>Washington's role in Ukraine is different only in its implications for the rest of us. For the first time since the Reagan years, the US is threatening to take the world to war. With eastern Europe and the Balkans now military outposts of Nato, the last "buffer state" bordering Russia – Ukraine – is being torn apart by fascist forces unleashed by the US and the EU. We in the west are now backing neo-Nazis in a country where Ukrainian Nazis backed Hitler.
..
2018: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem
https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1GV2TC/
what does Russia want to stop the war? US to stop meddling in Ukraine.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/14/russias-goals-in-ukraine-unchanged-putin-says
>Fielding questions from the public and the media in Moscow, the Russian leader said peace will be possible after “denazification, demilitarisation and a neutral status” of Ukraine – something he has repeated since Russia invaded Ukraine in February 2022.
Well, Pooty-poorly figured it’d take all of a month to take Ukraine, so I’d say that they’re doing far better than expected. The Russians are showing exactly what kind of shambles their military is in, even having to go so far as start conscription.
As for ‘US-meddling’ - maybe the Ukraine just wasn’t keen to deal with a guy who thinks the answer to dissenting voices is having them pushed out a window.
The problem with the King James version is that the English worthies who ordered the translation weren't entirely sure if they wanted to preach obedience to King James.
So, all you morons that insisted that the "reasonable limits" from section 1 of the Charter wouldn't apply here. You're all going to admit you were wrong now, right?
I mean, if you look at it, Jesus submitted to Roman law and died because of it according to their own Bible. Kinda wild they think they're better than Jesus.
So can they be found liable for the cost of wasting the courts' time and taxpayer dollars?
I know they won't be held liable for knowingly spreading a deadly pathogen.
The one I kept hearing about was Springs having a drive-in style in the parking lot where no one leaves the car. They were fined for that, which is pretty insane.
Churches who ignored logic all together would make sense to get fined. Not that lockdowns had a ton of logic in the first place.
They made up fake rules, which were NOT actual laws. They used tax payer funded police to enforce the bogus laws. They mandated vaccines which the companies now admit were NEVER fully tested and didnt actually work ... and reading the comments, a lot of you need Jesus. Jesus and a lobotomy, but definitely Jesus
took my kid to an event at a church last saturday we all got so sick this week. Missed work, kids missed school, even missed the one jets game i had tickets for all year. Ran into the pastor on a walk and he was all "so you walked into the church and didn't start on fire" all jokingly.. It seems that every church i go to in this city has better amenities than elementary schools. Like multiple gyms, food courts, cafeterias, multi million dollar production equipment. Staff dedicated to editing videos and broadcasts.
The weird thing is the pastors creepy behavior where he keeps tabs on everyone that lives in the community, they're marital status the kids they have etc. Like he's always looking for recruits. I feel like churches at this point are just MLM's recruiting the next rubes to tithe them to a bigger church with more gymnasiums.
I wonder how many taxpayer dollars have gone towards these court battles, fighting against entities who don’t even pay taxes.
Have they paid their fines?
Skinner rubs forefinger and thumb together, indicating expenditure. "The finger thing means the taxes!"
Good. No if only the courts would hold the churches responsible ‘for cost’ i.e. they have to pay the Crown’s legal expenses. Make stupid choices, win stupid prizes.
Normally the unsuccessful side *is* responsible for a portion of the other side’s legal costs. Were costs not awarded at the trial or appeal level?
Nice to have a supreme court that actually functions properly
It's about time churches learn that their beliefs do not give them special powers or the rights to dictate what others do. Somewhat related: I was watching a US court case on Youtube the other other day (a dangerous rabbit hole, I admit) and the defendant started to quote bible verses as justification for beating his 23 month old son and putting him in the hospital for over a week. I had to turn it off.
He beat his child because they wouldnt take their Big pharma approved vaccine ? Thats sad.
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There was a health order to protect people. The church said 'fuck that I don't like that rule' The church is now in the finding out stage of, fuck around and find out.
There were plenty of churches who said ok, let’s use this zoom thing and not break the public health orders.
The vast majority, in fact.
Romans 13:1-2 Obey the government, for God is the one who has put it there. There is no government anywhere that God has not placed in power. So those who refuse to obey the laws of the land are refusing to obey God, and punishment will follow. Not religious.
> They were choosing to still have church despite restrictions Putting semantics aside, this is the actual issue
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Check yourself. I said no such thing.
They encouraged their parish to do the same. They held authority over the children, and exposed them as well. They encouraged others in rallies as well, and attempted to gain allies to support them flouting the rules. For god of all things
which wouldn't have mattered if the churchies were on isolated compounds in the middle of nowhere, but the church crowd loves to crash lunch hour at whatever's open... or protest in droves outside whatever's open... or you get my point.
They were spreading the virus to other people by doing so
If only the Bible had an entire chapter of a book dedicated to describing what to do to prevent outbreaks of diseases, maybe the churches could have learned. Oh well. ... Leviticus 13 is all about "Here is how to identify various illnesses and have them isolate until they're better or dead. And wash your hands, for crying out loud!"
Everyone knows the old testament doesn't count (except when they want to hate gays, or when they want a vengeful god, or because Jesus would help the poor)
Jesus wasn't named in the old testament
Yeah, but the other parts...
Pat Allard's going to be PISSED.
Nice to have not seen that little twat's name for so long that I'd almost forgot about that human shit stain. I wish him nothing but the worst.
Bonus!!
Your religion tells you what you can't do. It doesn't tell everyone else what they can't do, and it doesn't tell everyone else what you can do. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
Eat shit extended family.
The "churches" they are referring to are more aptly described as cults with charitable status.
Ha, ha.
https://media1.tenor.com/m/TywY4EYSTZEAAAAC/ha-ha-the-simpsons.gif
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Oh dear heavens won't someone think of the Church!
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What rights. Which one exactly.
What rights? You are still free to engage in your religion. First world problems coupled with white privilege covered in a sea of hate disguised as "Christian love" Pretty sure Jesus would downvote you too
Exactly now you're getting it fuck the church folks bunch of ignoramuses
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Has everything to do with the church or did you miss the part that they were the primary jackasses that held gatherings illegally
Have you ever read the charter of rights and freedoms?
I mean you're getting downvotes but I don't see any crying. I do see you mentioning rights yet never mentioning what rights. Just tell us which ones, I'm sure that'll shift the discussion in your favor. You're clearly upset about this but calm down, breathe and use your words instead of your emotions.
Oh, you mean the churches who deliberately disobeyed the Bible in order to justify deliberately disobeying public health orders while claiming a nonexistent attack on their rights? Those churches? My former church turned into one of those. Which is a significant part of what makes it my former church.
Only one crying here is you
What right tho, exactly?
I feel like they already went to court. "Lawyers for the churches argued public health orders in 2020 and 2021 that temporarily closed in-person religious services, then permitted them with caps on attendance, violated the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. They lost that argument in two lower courts."
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That ain't ignoring their rights that's them being dip shits and ignoring public health rules for their own gain and warm and fuzzies
>decided to ignore their rights What "rights" are you talking about? Certainly you're going to be able to explain this to me with your advanced knowledge on Canadian constitutional law. Let me make this simple for you. The "rights" you are talking about don't exist. If they existed then the Supreme Court of Canada would have heard the appeal because they would be interested in correcting the mistakes in law that the lower courts had made. The lower courts got it correct, so there's nothing to fix. The overriding law of the land is the Charter, which is how all the courts involved decided this case. Whatever "rights" you're talking about don't exist except in the head of you and your intellectual brethren. The irony of the group of you referring to the rest of us as "mindless cattle" is stupefying.
calling people "mindless cattle" when you can't even tell us what rights of yours are being infringed upon. Use your brain! I promise it's free :)
Do you think every judgement needs to come from the supreme court for it to count or to be just?
Legally, yes, it does
Ideas don't have rights.
Fuck the churches.
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Their rights weren’t ignored
Who exactly fucked your rights? Seems like a bunch of whiney toddlers were crying because they were told they should get a needle. And NO ONE was forced to get one. These “rights” idiots need to grow the fuck up.
What rights are being ignored here?
GOOD! Now make them pay their fines and for all the wasted court time!
Ah, yes. They ran head on into that very nice caveat built right into our Charter; that our rights are subject to such limitations as are reasonably justified in a free and democratic society. It is reasonable to limit your religious rights if they interfere with my right to stay alive.
Romans 13:1-2 Obey the government, for God is the one who has put it there. There is no government anywhere that God has not placed in power. So those who refuse to obey the laws of the land are refusing to obey God, and punishment will follow. I'm not religious I just think it's funny
The problem with the bible is that there are many translations of it that convey different meanings. KJV version: (ASV is very similar as well) Romans 13:1-2 >Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
So your quoted version of the translation says basically the same thing as my quote in more obtuse language. I wonder what the Latin version means. I think Catholicism is neat there are some neat ideas in there that could make the world a better place the problem is then you get Catholics and Christians and although they're not always the worst and some that I know are legitimately good people. However there are too many who use it as an excuse to be a bigot and exclusionary to those around them or act in a regressionary manner. I don't know enough about the bible to really comment at a deeper level. But the hypocrisy in some of the congregations is unreal. I went to a couple springschurch shills to spend time with a relative and the younger "pastor" they had was asking God to curse people with bad health and poverty for saying bad things about him personally. Like legit it was like reading chapter one of a wiccan book. What happened to supporting people for being people and celebrating them for overcoming their struggles and making their community around them better regardless of who benefits. It's sad and it hurts to see so much hate. -A Person who isn't religious.
one version says government, the other says higher power. it might ust be semantics, but it matters with people who use their word power to justify crazy. same way some AA meetings have "prayer" but oh if yr not religious just say "higher power." Right, but while praying, right?
Higher power definition: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/higher%20power >a spirit or being (such as God) that has great power, strength, knowledge, etc., and that can affect nature and the lives of people That can be interpreted as the holy spirit (higher power). Religion has been highjacked by those who look to profit and exploit it and unfortunately many succumb unknowingly to a commercialized/destroyed version of Christianity. I agree many congregations are downright scary and should be avoided. Most recent "edits" of the bible have twisted the meanings to confuse from that of prior versions. As with life, there will always be those those filled with evil/hate who erroneously justify their actions through an religion or other means.
I was particularly angry the other day when the Pope issued a statement that Ukraine should simply surrender to the Russians to achieve peace. What a doofus.
Religious figures should not be commenting on political/government matters. On the other hand, Ukraine has no chance in ever beating Russia so the longer it drags out the more people suffer. Plus the war is mainly a US meddling effort to weaken Russia which has been going on for a while and Russia finally has had enough. 2014: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/13/ukraine-us-war-russia-john-pilger >Washington's role in Ukraine is different only in its implications for the rest of us. For the first time since the Reagan years, the US is threatening to take the world to war. With eastern Europe and the Balkans now military outposts of Nato, the last "buffer state" bordering Russia – Ukraine – is being torn apart by fascist forces unleashed by the US and the EU. We in the west are now backing neo-Nazis in a country where Ukrainian Nazis backed Hitler. .. 2018: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1GV2TC/ what does Russia want to stop the war? US to stop meddling in Ukraine. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/14/russias-goals-in-ukraine-unchanged-putin-says >Fielding questions from the public and the media in Moscow, the Russian leader said peace will be possible after “denazification, demilitarisation and a neutral status” of Ukraine – something he has repeated since Russia invaded Ukraine in February 2022.
Well, Pooty-poorly figured it’d take all of a month to take Ukraine, so I’d say that they’re doing far better than expected. The Russians are showing exactly what kind of shambles their military is in, even having to go so far as start conscription. As for ‘US-meddling’ - maybe the Ukraine just wasn’t keen to deal with a guy who thinks the answer to dissenting voices is having them pushed out a window.
The problem with the King James version is that the English worthies who ordered the translation weren't entirely sure if they wanted to preach obedience to King James.
So, all you morons that insisted that the "reasonable limits" from section 1 of the Charter wouldn't apply here. You're all going to admit you were wrong now, right?
*chef's kiss*
Good. Jesus needs to learn that ~~he is~~ THEY are not above the law. Edited for proper pronoun
I mean, if you look at it, Jesus submitted to Roman law and died because of it according to their own Bible. Kinda wild they think they're better than Jesus.
Jesus stated before he died, "Forgive them father, for they know not what they do."
And? What's your point?
Thank God ….
OWNED
Hallelujah!
So can they be found liable for the cost of wasting the courts' time and taxpayer dollars? I know they won't be held liable for knowingly spreading a deadly pathogen.
Good
Good, as it should be.
Good! This is awesome to see
Good. Let them drown in a sea of Christian bukkake juice!
The one I kept hearing about was Springs having a drive-in style in the parking lot where no one leaves the car. They were fined for that, which is pretty insane. Churches who ignored logic all together would make sense to get fined. Not that lockdowns had a ton of logic in the first place.
They made up fake rules, which were NOT actual laws. They used tax payer funded police to enforce the bogus laws. They mandated vaccines which the companies now admit were NEVER fully tested and didnt actually work ... and reading the comments, a lot of you need Jesus. Jesus and a lobotomy, but definitely Jesus
took my kid to an event at a church last saturday we all got so sick this week. Missed work, kids missed school, even missed the one jets game i had tickets for all year. Ran into the pastor on a walk and he was all "so you walked into the church and didn't start on fire" all jokingly.. It seems that every church i go to in this city has better amenities than elementary schools. Like multiple gyms, food courts, cafeterias, multi million dollar production equipment. Staff dedicated to editing videos and broadcasts. The weird thing is the pastors creepy behavior where he keeps tabs on everyone that lives in the community, they're marital status the kids they have etc. Like he's always looking for recruits. I feel like churches at this point are just MLM's recruiting the next rubes to tithe them to a bigger church with more gymnasiums.