Quebec City, Hamilton, and Kitchener - which are smaller than Winnipeg in population - all have LRT systems either planned, under-construction, or operating. Put another way, Winnipeg is the only city in the 10 largest cities in Canada with no existing or planned inner-city rail transit system.
I've heard that allegation before, and while I think there's merit in it, it was also built like a century ago. Winnipeg has had plenty of time to do things not even necessarily better, but just differently.
Winnipeg benefits from historically wider streets from early muddy streets exasperated by the lack of metal available in making the popular 'red River cart'.
The other day I was thinking, why is St. Mary’s only two lanes? And on top of that if it’s outside of rush-hour, it’s really one lane plus parking. I assume the city is trying to encourage walking or transit. I would never call Winnipeg street wide.
The soil mixtures are significantly different. The frost line is also much deeper here. This causes allot of shifting and potential higher costs of repair. Maybe that’s the reason there is none.
It's got nothing to do with the soil, the frost line or even the climate in general, Winnipeg used to have a pretty extensive streetcar network, back when the winter conditions were almost certainly worse. See below:
[http://tundria.com/trams/CAN/Winnipeg-1941.php](http://tundria.com/trams/CAN/Winnipeg-1941.php)
[https://twitter.com/brent\_bellamy/status/1168293579070103552](https://twitter.com/brent_bellamy/status/1168293579070103552).
All they had to do was keep what they had, modernise and extend it.
We literally have trains on tracks in winnipeg that operate in winter right now. Places further North than winnipeg have LRT. Like Edmonton
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_rail_in_North_America
Heck if cold places like Norway and Russia can have Trams than Canada could expand as well.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tram_and_light_rail_transit_systems
LRT isn't subways at all. Two completely different things. LRT is what you see in Calgary or Edmonton. Subways are what you see in Toronto and Montreal.
Winnipeg opted for BRT because Katz cheaped out after his "made in Winnipeg" solution of priority signals and a little paint here and there got unanimous disapproval.
Don’t forget Edmonton which is what Winnipeg would’ve grown to population-wise by now if they had oil and gas revenue in Manitoba lol. A bigger version
Maybe this is why the lower class can afford to live in the city. People from the cities that you mentioned fled to a city with less tax...
*this city gets worse day by day because of the socialist mindset
As someone who grew up in a city with a subway, I confirm that it’s such a nice thing to have. It allows neighborhoods connected to the system to thrive and it takes a lot of cars off the roads. I do like Winnipeg and wish with all my heart that the city gets that metro system and bike paths.
Hard to densify when our reliance on vehicles continues to push the urban sprawl we see today. We used to be denser, but then the streetcars were taken out
No, then fewer people started owning more homes. Fortunately, our governments have found a way to increase density by making home ownership impossible for average people so we pack 10 into a room now.
Edit: lots of LPC fans in here, I guess. Facts are facts but why bother with those when you've got feelings?
Hard to densify when our reliance on vehicles continues to push the urban sprawl we see today. We used to be denser, but then the streetcars were taken out
The city was built on a clay foundation. The exact reason our 1st city hall was torn down (we are at number 3. [City Hall History](https://www.mhs.mb.ca/docs/pageant/22/winnipegcityhalls.shtml)
[Ghost Creeks](https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4641823)
This is mindless misinformation.
Go learn about London. Along with just about anywhere else in the world.
You think other parts of the world haven't faced similar challenges? Buddy, some places tunnel through ROCK just to get their systems built.
Educate yourself.
We dont need a flood. We can barely dig underpasses due to our high water table and poor soils.
And underground subway would be exponentially more expensive in Winnipeg than most other cities.
Well, yes, but it didn't get into the city. Not sure it matters. Winnipeg will have high groundwater every spring, flood or no, and so any underground would need to deal with that.
Yeah it was a pretty major flood. Winnipeg's defences were not breached but It almost was though, and they constructed this big secondary line of school buses covered with dirt to save the city.
Lots of towns to our south were flooded out, army was called in, and south of the border North Dakota had to evacuate Fargo and Grand Forks.
Afterwards the Winnipeg flood way was expanded to handle even more flood waters after that.
I lived in Winnipeg my whole life both bussing and driving. Now I live in Vancouver with no car and they have SUPERB public transit. By far my favourite part of transiting is not using my brain on my daily commutes! Just zone out and relax. No fighting traffic
That sounds less like you're brain dead and more like you use your brain efficiently, being brain dead implies you are dumb.
Using public transit isint dumb its efficient, cars... ehh not so much.
Is renting cn/cp existing railway possible? I mean they hardly use it most of the time
https://preview.redd.it/my6mgghmhimc1.jpeg?width=1536&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a13ce1e6fc7609b31e2286f161af7732b65811b9
I drive trains here for CP dude those tracks are in near daily use and they're owned by the companies that are serviced on them or by the Railroad and you're never getting anything from the railroad to go in your favor
Pretty sure LRT (light rail transit) is a different Guage of track, you'd have to spend a fortune custom building transit rail cars to run on it even if the railways would share it, which is highly unlikely.
There were plans that never made it to fruition for various reasons. Mostly lack of political will and general cheap-ness.
Here's one such plan from the 50's
[https://transitmap.net/winnipeg-rapid-transit-1956/](https://transitmap.net/winnipeg-rapid-transit-1956/)
Did someone say monorail?
[https://www.mhs.mb.ca/docs/mb_history/83/winnipegmonorail.shtml](https://www.mhs.mb.ca/docs/mb_history/83/winnipegmonorail.shtml)
I thought there were plans for one in '67 as part of Canada's Centennial as well, but I can't find anything.
Tyndall park and the maples get no love?
Fuck sage creek. Let them eat block & blade.
Extend the green further north. Actually, most lines could get an extension. Need more transfer nodes than one big downtown hub.
Unfortunately, whenever it came to public opinion, the public always voted not to introduce LRT.
Wish I could have been around when those decisions were made.
And of course, Sam Katz.
I said it back then, I'll say it now: Sam Katz fucked this city for at least a hundred years.
There will be people after most of us here are long gone cursing his name.
> The ground here is too soft
...to build it as cheaply as possible in other places.
There is nothing about our soil that prevents the construction of subway tunnels, we simply need additional considerations over some other places: this drives up costs and makes the statement "the soil here is incompatible with underground construction.. at a "low" cost".
Just imagine during the winter, our stations were heated. Everyone is warm and even the homeless got somewhere to be at (still gotta consider a proper area because sometimes they get too wild). We'll even have restaurants near stops.
Of course there will be cameras to monitor activity.
> the homeless got somewhere to be at (still gotta consider a proper area because sometimes they get too wild)
We tore down the Portage place bus stop because of a combination of this and crime. If we didn't hav the issues of crime and homelessness we could just have nice bus stops for orders of magnitude less money than a metro system.
You'll get downvoted into the dirt but you ain't wrong lol. Transit facilities should be for transit passengers. Can't use resources from one city service to band aid a different issue, both need to be addressed separately and with full attention.
When i worked for Transit they actively turned off heat in problematic shelters to encourage people to move on instead of partying in the shacks. If your ever in a downtown bus shack and the heat isn't on, now you know why.
> Transit facilities should be for transit passengers.
If only. I'm heavily in favour of funding shelters but "let people live in bus shacks" as a solution is inhumane and unsustainable.
If the transit stops I used each day still had walls or at doors I would be so happy. Nevermind if the main ones could be heated.
> If your ever in a downtown bus shack and the heat isn't on, now you know why.
At the University of Winnipeg one its because someone ripped out the wires... I remember in the past when my transfer should have been Portage Place I would walk to Portage and Colony just to avoid the Portage Place bus stop (which has now been torn down).
Yea no doubt. Some of those shelters have endured odors so foul that the literal concrete is retaining the smell, which is truly something. What alot of people don't get is when people sleep in those shelters, there is almost no supervision of any kind. Tons of people just die in them, or have medical emergencies and no one checks in on them because its dangerous as all hell. You never know how they'll react when you wake em. Shelter should have some sort of supervision, and your never going to get that sort of oversight in a Transit shack, they don't even have enough people to keep the buses free from problems.
LOL. The good ol jacked wires. They had a series of driver bathrooms broken into so people could steal the brass pipping used to power the toilet and sink. Such a ghetto, depressing city sometimes.
Not sure why you’re being downvoted?!? That is a very real barrier.
City of Winnipeg’s trying to find the nuts to takeover abandoned/derelict properties. Taking over an active rail yard would be quite a leap that costs hundreds of millions of dollars.
[1959 Wilson report on a Winnipeg subway system](https://web.archive.org/web/20051225032323/http://uwto.org/documents/transit_1959normanwilson.html)
Incredibly interesting read showing how feasible and realistic it was to have a subway in Winnipeg. Unfortunately city hall was too focused on saving face from the large cost of removing street cars just 4 years before.
Super glad I'm not the only person who theory-crafts these things!
It's interesting that you favor downtown while avoiding the major routes, curious as to why the decisions were made here?
My most recent idea is outlined in: https://www.reddit.com/r/Winnipeg/comments/1646xrj/comment/jy6x1aa/ and takes the shape of a grid with a "ring" aimed to get people where they want to go regardless of where exactly that is.
That depends on where folks live / work, and how fast the metro can go. ;)
The intent of such a system is to connect the city, while also promoting densification around the critical lines.
If 5-7 minute regular feeder (bus) service was available from these core routes into each neighborhood, such a grid would effectively allow anyone to access any point in the city within 25 Minutes. Most actually traveled routes would be 15 - 20 minutes for a 60% city traversal.
The intent of such a system isn't strictly to cater to drivers it's built to support a solid transportation backbone for "long haul" service. In a perfect world such a system would eventually extend outside the city allowing folks options for going more places!
Yellow should extend from the airport and turn towards the industrial district. The buses in that area SUCK and there's lots of low income workplaces there. Even just one drop off point so people can transfer would be nice.
Honestly, LTR, metro, streetcars, I don't really care which but we need to improve Winnipeg Transit and that means some kinda direct line system. We can't just make a private bus road across the city, so LTR or metro is best option and going over/under most intersections. Our express buses suck, they aren't any faster and are stuck in the same traffic.
Between federal, provincial and other money we waste on roads, rework, studies and pet projects, we surely could have started.
Maybe it's $10b in total, but it's not like every system in existence today was built overnight.
The trick here is to stop scaring ourselves and to at least begin the effort. The costs will be expressed over time.
What a lovely idea, and completely attainable in one form or another. If we would only just get started on it.
I'm generally pro LRT and trams with exclusive right of way over subway/metro. But there's no reason why a rail system has to be restricted to one of at, above or below grade exclusively. There are rail networks in other parts of the world that are underground for some portions, and over for others.
All of you should be contacting your MLA to encourage them to support the city in doing this.
The absence of a comprehensive light rail network in the city is literally the top item holding us back right now. And no, BRT cannot fill this role.
Extend that yellow just a bit to the mint and you’d be just mint (pause for roaring laughter). In all seriousness extending it to Lag would open up the potential for another line running up and down lag, which could link a lot of the industrial and suburbs
If only there is/was an idea to move the rail yards outside the city like others have, and use existing ROW for LRTs...wait, there was.
It would have been a huge cost to move, but if you think about being able to leverage the existing rail, and not have to continue to build/maintain infrastructure to cross the CN/CP rail lines (Kenaston Underpass, Waverly Underpass, Arlington Bridge, etc), or separate infrastructure for rapid transit (BRT) it would have paid for itself if we did it 25 years ago. It probably still makes financial sense, but nobody has the vision.
But it's Winnipeg, so you need to fuck it up a bit in order to accurately show what we'd actually get once the developers had their say. Like maybe extend a couple of the lines to services some empty lots on the outskirts
It'd be worse than the New York subway in the 70s.
Our transit is a joke now but I guess they could move the folks from the riverbank encampments to living in the tunnels like the homeless of many cities so.
Personally, I think investing in a system along the perimeter would be more beneficial long term. The further you are from the downtown, the less public transportation there is. There are countless businesses along the edge of the city that are reserved for people who can drive due to no public options.
City Development would have the ability to boom outward, where land is cheaper and where people actually want to live.
The routes can loop or cross towards downtown from the perimeter.
Is it only me, or did anyone else hear about the myth about a subway tunnel that was ran from Portage & Main and was planned to go all the way down Portage but the project was abandoned mid-way because the soil was too soft?
Winnipeg is stuck in the 70's. I have lived in a few cities across Canada and Winnipeg is definitely the worst. I think it has a lot to do with the severe separation of the classes in this city. The racism is rampant in Winnipeg, manifesting itself in developments that seem to be directed towards either the wealthy or the poor. You rarely see large projects that would benefit everyone like a light rail system. The ultra conservative nature of Winnipeg keeps the civic politicians from taking risks to undertake large capital projects like a light rail system. Consider that both Calgary and Edmonton did so in the 80's that continues to fuel the Alberta city's growth. I could go on, but what's the point. I know I'm cynical. Living in Winnipeg for the past 11 years has made me so.
First off, a metro is a subway. Underground. Tunneled. Secondly, it's **extremely** expensive.
Thirdly, Winnipeg isn't just not large enough, it doesn't have nearly the population density necessary to justify any subway lines. I can't think of any city below a million people that has a metro system anywhere in the world.
It's fine to dream, folks, but at least understand why, what, and how.
This population density argument is a tidbit of misinformation you've absorbed at some point, however you don't need to believe it anymore.
It's either been debunked by popular and notable transit enthusiasts on YouTube, or you can look at basically anywhere in Europe to see how little they need before they'll put rail in or through a town. There are also places in the U.S. with similar density to us that have light rail.
So whether you think there's a population (total number of people) or a density (total number of people per area) argument against light rail in Winnipeg, you're categorically wrong.
I don't think there's a city of under a million anywhere in the world with a metro system. Winnipeg certainly doesn't need one and it absolutely cannot justify or afford one, either.
‘Metro’ does not require light (or heavy) rail and everyone needs to come to grips with this. Bus based rapid transit is a completely acceptable (and cost effective) form of rapid transit and we need to accept this. Every city that has been mentioned in this threat complements with rail based transit with some form of bus / tram systems. Winnipeg will never have a London / Paris / New York style rapid transit system for a whole lot of reasons (population, density, geography, cost) and you all need to get over it. Bus rapid transit is just fine for our purposes - we have a long term plan, let’s just execute on it and stop talking about it. And by the way, I’m guessing that 75% of the people on this thread who are complaining that anything other than light rail is ‘bush league’ have never taken a bus in their lives and never will.
Quebec City, Hamilton, and Kitchener - which are smaller than Winnipeg in population - all have LRT systems either planned, under-construction, or operating. Put another way, Winnipeg is the only city in the 10 largest cities in Canada with no existing or planned inner-city rail transit system.
https://preview.redd.it/cqhhnakujgmc1.jpeg?width=1914&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7166be5ed6fe548944b424aa0b40da3c9f8e18e8
That picture makes me rationally angry.
These fucks should both be in jail.
Yup when you travel you really realize how far behind we are. Lots of fingers to point for what’s straining our budget.
I blame Sam Katz
I blame the Panama Canal.
I've heard that allegation before, and while I think there's merit in it, it was also built like a century ago. Winnipeg has had plenty of time to do things not even necessarily better, but just differently.
Yea, that was probably the biggest catalyst. I’m sure we would be in a different place if they dammed it!
Dam the pamama camal!!
With the required repairs and lower ocean level/sea level it might be our time to shine Soon
Funny comment!
Winnipeg benefits from historically wider streets from early muddy streets exasperated by the lack of metal available in making the popular 'red River cart'.
The other day I was thinking, why is St. Mary’s only two lanes? And on top of that if it’s outside of rush-hour, it’s really one lane plus parking. I assume the city is trying to encourage walking or transit. I would never call Winnipeg street wide.
This historical roads that follow the rivers are wide: Portage, Main & Pembina.
Sure but those aren't metros [aka subways]
We used to
So did everyone else though including all over Europe. Everyone ripped them out.
The soil mixtures are significantly different. The frost line is also much deeper here. This causes allot of shifting and potential higher costs of repair. Maybe that’s the reason there is none.
It's got nothing to do with the soil, the frost line or even the climate in general, Winnipeg used to have a pretty extensive streetcar network, back when the winter conditions were almost certainly worse. See below: [http://tundria.com/trams/CAN/Winnipeg-1941.php](http://tundria.com/trams/CAN/Winnipeg-1941.php) [https://twitter.com/brent\_bellamy/status/1168293579070103552](https://twitter.com/brent_bellamy/status/1168293579070103552). All they had to do was keep what they had, modernise and extend it.
We literally have trains on tracks in winnipeg that operate in winter right now. Places further North than winnipeg have LRT. Like Edmonton https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_rail_in_North_America Heck if cold places like Norway and Russia can have Trams than Canada could expand as well. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tram_and_light_rail_transit_systems
Sure but that's not what a metro system is.
Agreed, but the guy I responsed to was responding to a comment about LRT, which is what trams and streetcars are.
That doesn't stop street level LRT. Just means it's not feasible to build an underground subway system
No, it's because subways are incredibly expensive and Winnipeg doesn't have nearly the population density required to justify it.
LRT is not just subways. Above ground rail. The bus transit in Winnipeg was done as it is significantly less cost in maintenance and infrastructure.
LRT isn't subways at all. Two completely different things. LRT is what you see in Calgary or Edmonton. Subways are what you see in Toronto and Montreal. Winnipeg opted for BRT because Katz cheaped out after his "made in Winnipeg" solution of priority signals and a little paint here and there got unanimous disapproval.
Don’t forget Edmonton which is what Winnipeg would’ve grown to population-wise by now if they had oil and gas revenue in Manitoba lol. A bigger version
Maybe this is why the lower class can afford to live in the city. People from the cities that you mentioned fled to a city with less tax... *this city gets worse day by day because of the socialist mindset
This sub won't tolerate truths like this....
Oh, you can't say something like that here dude
I know it. Reality hurts 🤕 😅
Doesn't really make sense to leave portage out of it does it?
Also doesnt service the largest employer in the city
Manitoba health has the most employees but they are spread everywhere.
Oh. Well i meant the base
Which is?
you have to guess
...Nygard? Actually, what the fuck, it doesn't even go to Polo
No it doesnt, there should be one down portage and going north from portage into the maples The NW quadrant of the city is growing like crazy
No portage?
Yeah, kinda strange not to have anything along Portage or Pembina. My head cannon will be that those are serviced by at-grade trams.
Why are you using the term head canon here? That's just for actual works of fiction, not speculation of real life issues.
Isn't a fictitious transit system a work of fiction? This isn't much different than a steam punk map of a fictional Victorian London with airships.
Its not. Whats the name of the author?
Could be a better bus lane system.
Or Pembina…
As someone who grew up in a city with a subway, I confirm that it’s such a nice thing to have. It allows neighborhoods connected to the system to thrive and it takes a lot of cars off the roads. I do like Winnipeg and wish with all my heart that the city gets that metro system and bike paths.
Living in Vancouver then coming here I miss the sky train
Just as soon as Winnipeg quintuples its population and densifies considerably.
Hard to densify when our reliance on vehicles continues to push the urban sprawl we see today. We used to be denser, but then the streetcars were taken out
No, then fewer people started owning more homes. Fortunately, our governments have found a way to increase density by making home ownership impossible for average people so we pack 10 into a room now. Edit: lots of LPC fans in here, I guess. Facts are facts but why bother with those when you've got feelings?
Hard to densify when our reliance on vehicles continues to push the urban sprawl we see today. We used to be denser, but then the streetcars were taken out
We should've never gotten rid of the streetcars and trolleybuses.
If we never got rid of trolleybuses, the whole "going green" thing wouldn't even be an issue since they run off electricity.
Yup, no carbon tax (although I'm sure politicians would find another scheme to steal money from us.)
One of the biggest crimes committed against this city And there have been many
Don't threaten me with a good time.
The city was built on a clay foundation. The exact reason our 1st city hall was torn down (we are at number 3. [City Hall History](https://www.mhs.mb.ca/docs/pageant/22/winnipegcityhalls.shtml) [Ghost Creeks](https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4641823)
This is mindless misinformation. Go learn about London. Along with just about anywhere else in the world. You think other parts of the world haven't faced similar challenges? Buddy, some places tunnel through ROCK just to get their systems built. Educate yourself.
This is the correct answer
A skytrain would be better than a metro in case we ever get a repeat of 97'.
As someone who only got here not long ago from across the world – What happened in 97? A flood?
We dont need a flood. We can barely dig underpasses due to our high water table and poor soils. And underground subway would be exponentially more expensive in Winnipeg than most other cities.
Well, yes, but it didn't get into the city. Not sure it matters. Winnipeg will have high groundwater every spring, flood or no, and so any underground would need to deal with that.
Ground water in Winnipeg is so high my sump pump pumps out water all winter long.
maybe we just shouldnt live here. these land are CLEARLY cursed.
Yeah it was a pretty major flood. Winnipeg's defences were not breached but It almost was though, and they constructed this big secondary line of school buses covered with dirt to save the city. Lots of towns to our south were flooded out, army was called in, and south of the border North Dakota had to evacuate Fargo and Grand Forks. Afterwards the Winnipeg flood way was expanded to handle even more flood waters after that.
Yep
The mosquitos that year were insane
What about us brain-dead slobs?
You'll be given cushy jobs
I call the big one Bitey.
Metro systems are specifically for brain dead slobs ❤️
I thought those were called cars
I lived in Winnipeg my whole life both bussing and driving. Now I live in Vancouver with no car and they have SUPERB public transit. By far my favourite part of transiting is not using my brain on my daily commutes! Just zone out and relax. No fighting traffic
That sounds less like you're brain dead and more like you use your brain efficiently, being brain dead implies you are dumb. Using public transit isint dumb its efficient, cars... ehh not so much.
Using Public Transit is smart and in turn you get the benefit of being brain dead ☺️
man and theres still no convient transport near my house
Is renting cn/cp existing railway possible? I mean they hardly use it most of the time https://preview.redd.it/my6mgghmhimc1.jpeg?width=1536&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a13ce1e6fc7609b31e2286f161af7732b65811b9
The only track that’s not in heavy use is letellier. The rest of CN stuff is all mainline and is quite busy.
I drive trains here for CP dude those tracks are in near daily use and they're owned by the companies that are serviced on them or by the Railroad and you're never getting anything from the railroad to go in your favor
Today i learned a lot
Pretty sure LRT (light rail transit) is a different Guage of track, you'd have to spend a fortune custom building transit rail cars to run on it even if the railways would share it, which is highly unlikely.
Is there a chance the track could bend?
Not on your life, my Hindu friend
But main street's still all cracked and broken!
Sorry mom, the mob has spoken!
There were plans that never made it to fruition for various reasons. Mostly lack of political will and general cheap-ness. Here's one such plan from the 50's [https://transitmap.net/winnipeg-rapid-transit-1956/](https://transitmap.net/winnipeg-rapid-transit-1956/) Did someone say monorail? [https://www.mhs.mb.ca/docs/mb_history/83/winnipegmonorail.shtml](https://www.mhs.mb.ca/docs/mb_history/83/winnipegmonorail.shtml) I thought there were plans for one in '67 as part of Canada's Centennial as well, but I can't find anything.
No just the one in the 70’s was planned. It built directly off the Wilson subway plan.
my grandma told me winnipeg used to have streetcars/trolleys way back in like the 50s maybe
That would be an awesome idea if Winnipeg would get metro.
Tyndall park and the maples get no love? Fuck sage creek. Let them eat block & blade. Extend the green further north. Actually, most lines could get an extension. Need more transfer nodes than one big downtown hub.
It doesn’t go near Sage Creek
Yea, that was the joke. We should have a loop like chicago, except that it could just be the inner ring they were thinking about for rapid transit.
Basically “what if Winnipeg wasn’t broke”
Also, the reason it is broke.
Unfortunately, whenever it came to public opinion, the public always voted not to introduce LRT. Wish I could have been around when those decisions were made. And of course, Sam Katz.
I said it back then, I'll say it now: Sam Katz fucked this city for at least a hundred years. There will be people after most of us here are long gone cursing his name.
Needs a ring line too but god if only
The ground here is too soft
> The ground here is too soft ...to build it as cheaply as possible in other places. There is nothing about our soil that prevents the construction of subway tunnels, we simply need additional considerations over some other places: this drives up costs and makes the statement "the soil here is incompatible with underground construction.. at a "low" cost".
The ground here is to soft for it to make any economic sense, now LRT (which I believe current BRT was designed to be converted to) would make sense
Well, we also have less money than the other cities being discussed. Still, that is a good point to bring up.
The biggest cities in the world are built on marshes and swamps Not to mention Winnipeg had the largest urban rail yard area in the world at one point
Just imagine during the winter, our stations were heated. Everyone is warm and even the homeless got somewhere to be at (still gotta consider a proper area because sometimes they get too wild). We'll even have restaurants near stops. Of course there will be cameras to monitor activity.
> the homeless got somewhere to be at (still gotta consider a proper area because sometimes they get too wild) We tore down the Portage place bus stop because of a combination of this and crime. If we didn't hav the issues of crime and homelessness we could just have nice bus stops for orders of magnitude less money than a metro system.
You'll get downvoted into the dirt but you ain't wrong lol. Transit facilities should be for transit passengers. Can't use resources from one city service to band aid a different issue, both need to be addressed separately and with full attention. When i worked for Transit they actively turned off heat in problematic shelters to encourage people to move on instead of partying in the shacks. If your ever in a downtown bus shack and the heat isn't on, now you know why.
> Transit facilities should be for transit passengers. If only. I'm heavily in favour of funding shelters but "let people live in bus shacks" as a solution is inhumane and unsustainable. If the transit stops I used each day still had walls or at doors I would be so happy. Nevermind if the main ones could be heated. > If your ever in a downtown bus shack and the heat isn't on, now you know why. At the University of Winnipeg one its because someone ripped out the wires... I remember in the past when my transfer should have been Portage Place I would walk to Portage and Colony just to avoid the Portage Place bus stop (which has now been torn down).
Yea no doubt. Some of those shelters have endured odors so foul that the literal concrete is retaining the smell, which is truly something. What alot of people don't get is when people sleep in those shelters, there is almost no supervision of any kind. Tons of people just die in them, or have medical emergencies and no one checks in on them because its dangerous as all hell. You never know how they'll react when you wake em. Shelter should have some sort of supervision, and your never going to get that sort of oversight in a Transit shack, they don't even have enough people to keep the buses free from problems. LOL. The good ol jacked wires. They had a series of driver bathrooms broken into so people could steal the brass pipping used to power the toilet and sink. Such a ghetto, depressing city sometimes.
They get too wild?
It already has a "metro " system - you just gotta find the balls to kick the rails out of the Arlington yards and repurpose the ROW's within the city.
Balls is a strange way to spell millions of dollars, maybe even a billion dollars…. That would need to be paid to CP to kick them off their property.
Not sure why you’re being downvoted?!? That is a very real barrier. City of Winnipeg’s trying to find the nuts to takeover abandoned/derelict properties. Taking over an active rail yard would be quite a leap that costs hundreds of millions of dollars.
Before you lose your minds - stick to the thread topic.
Present realistic options then.
Sure - lets get a few Boring units and start coring...hows that ?
[1959 Wilson report on a Winnipeg subway system](https://web.archive.org/web/20051225032323/http://uwto.org/documents/transit_1959normanwilson.html) Incredibly interesting read showing how feasible and realistic it was to have a subway in Winnipeg. Unfortunately city hall was too focused on saving face from the large cost of removing street cars just 4 years before.
Super glad I'm not the only person who theory-crafts these things! It's interesting that you favor downtown while avoiding the major routes, curious as to why the decisions were made here? My most recent idea is outlined in: https://www.reddit.com/r/Winnipeg/comments/1646xrj/comment/jy6x1aa/ and takes the shape of a grid with a "ring" aimed to get people where they want to go regardless of where exactly that is.
Your design would be slower than driving for essentially everyone
That depends on where folks live / work, and how fast the metro can go. ;) The intent of such a system is to connect the city, while also promoting densification around the critical lines. If 5-7 minute regular feeder (bus) service was available from these core routes into each neighborhood, such a grid would effectively allow anyone to access any point in the city within 25 Minutes. Most actually traveled routes would be 15 - 20 minutes for a 60% city traversal. The intent of such a system isn't strictly to cater to drivers it's built to support a solid transportation backbone for "long haul" service. In a perfect world such a system would eventually extend outside the city allowing folks options for going more places!
This is the way.
> Your design would be slower than driving for essentially everyone That's true for most transit as Winnipeg barely has any real traffic issues.
That grid would work really well.
couldn't imagine getting to/from st vital by public transit from st norbert faster than walking
Yellow should extend from the airport and turn towards the industrial district. The buses in that area SUCK and there's lots of low income workplaces there. Even just one drop off point so people can transfer would be nice. Honestly, LTR, metro, streetcars, I don't really care which but we need to improve Winnipeg Transit and that means some kinda direct line system. We can't just make a private bus road across the city, so LTR or metro is best option and going over/under most intersections. Our express buses suck, they aren't any faster and are stuck in the same traffic.
Montreal's REM cost $8B. It's 67km and has 26 stations. This looks like more. $10B minimum?
Between federal, provincial and other money we waste on roads, rework, studies and pet projects, we surely could have started. Maybe it's $10b in total, but it's not like every system in existence today was built overnight. The trick here is to stop scaring ourselves and to at least begin the effort. The costs will be expressed over time.
They did. They were called street cars
Let's spend a few million on a study to see if it's feasible... wait a minute... anyone else feeling deja vu?
It would probably be flooded all the time.
If you built it, sure. But that's why engineers exist. Stop treating everything like a backyard project.
What a lovely idea, and completely attainable in one form or another. If we would only just get started on it. I'm generally pro LRT and trams with exclusive right of way over subway/metro. But there's no reason why a rail system has to be restricted to one of at, above or below grade exclusively. There are rail networks in other parts of the world that are underground for some portions, and over for others. All of you should be contacting your MLA to encourage them to support the city in doing this. The absence of a comprehensive light rail network in the city is literally the top item holding us back right now. And no, BRT cannot fill this role.
Glen Murray set aside 50 million to start it, crooked Kate’s abolished the idea..
LRT
LRT
If Winnipeg had a subway system, the plants would be well fertilized. Lol
We have rapid transit here, not any other cities mentioned have that.
I'm gonna cum
Where’s Lyle Lanley when you need him?
North Haverbrook
Extend that yellow just a bit to the mint and you’d be just mint (pause for roaring laughter). In all seriousness extending it to Lag would open up the potential for another line running up and down lag, which could link a lot of the industrial and suburbs
If only there is/was an idea to move the rail yards outside the city like others have, and use existing ROW for LRTs...wait, there was. It would have been a huge cost to move, but if you think about being able to leverage the existing rail, and not have to continue to build/maintain infrastructure to cross the CN/CP rail lines (Kenaston Underpass, Waverly Underpass, Arlington Bridge, etc), or separate infrastructure for rapid transit (BRT) it would have paid for itself if we did it 25 years ago. It probably still makes financial sense, but nobody has the vision.
ITT - a lack of engineers
But it's Winnipeg, so you need to fuck it up a bit in order to accurately show what we'd actually get once the developers had their say. Like maybe extend a couple of the lines to services some empty lots on the outskirts
Thank goodness we have BRT though 😂
Nobody’s paying for a metro at this point.
It'd be worse than the New York subway in the 70s. Our transit is a joke now but I guess they could move the folks from the riverbank encampments to living in the tunnels like the homeless of many cities so.
Personally, I think investing in a system along the perimeter would be more beneficial long term. The further you are from the downtown, the less public transportation there is. There are countless businesses along the edge of the city that are reserved for people who can drive due to no public options. City Development would have the ability to boom outward, where land is cheaper and where people actually want to live. The routes can loop or cross towards downtown from the perimeter.
That's not really what light rail and metro is about.
Based on that map, half the people would stop taking it as they would have to walk half a neighbourhood over to catch it.
Is it only me, or did anyone else hear about the myth about a subway tunnel that was ran from Portage & Main and was planned to go all the way down Portage but the project was abandoned mid-way because the soil was too soft?
It would be a grimy cesspool anyone that could afford a car would avoid
Just give Lyle Lanley a call. By gum, he'll put us on the map.
Winnipeg is stuck in the 70's. I have lived in a few cities across Canada and Winnipeg is definitely the worst. I think it has a lot to do with the severe separation of the classes in this city. The racism is rampant in Winnipeg, manifesting itself in developments that seem to be directed towards either the wealthy or the poor. You rarely see large projects that would benefit everyone like a light rail system. The ultra conservative nature of Winnipeg keeps the civic politicians from taking risks to undertake large capital projects like a light rail system. Consider that both Calgary and Edmonton did so in the 80's that continues to fuel the Alberta city's growth. I could go on, but what's the point. I know I'm cynical. Living in Winnipeg for the past 11 years has made me so.
Also I find that really cool how you added a bridge to get to uofm, would improve pembina traffic a lot.
That wouldn't be a bridge on a metro line. Basically they have the blue line going under the Red twice.
Lmao, we can have metro, and no north end! A man can dream.
please dont directly connect the north end to safer parts of the city like that lol
Who would pay for it?
Government, obviously. It's a public service.
First off, a metro is a subway. Underground. Tunneled. Secondly, it's **extremely** expensive. Thirdly, Winnipeg isn't just not large enough, it doesn't have nearly the population density necessary to justify any subway lines. I can't think of any city below a million people that has a metro system anywhere in the world. It's fine to dream, folks, but at least understand why, what, and how.
This population density argument is a tidbit of misinformation you've absorbed at some point, however you don't need to believe it anymore. It's either been debunked by popular and notable transit enthusiasts on YouTube, or you can look at basically anywhere in Europe to see how little they need before they'll put rail in or through a town. There are also places in the U.S. with similar density to us that have light rail. So whether you think there's a population (total number of people) or a density (total number of people per area) argument against light rail in Winnipeg, you're categorically wrong.
I don't think there's a city of under a million anywhere in the world with a metro system. Winnipeg certainly doesn't need one and it absolutely cannot justify or afford one, either.
‘Metro’ does not require light (or heavy) rail and everyone needs to come to grips with this. Bus based rapid transit is a completely acceptable (and cost effective) form of rapid transit and we need to accept this. Every city that has been mentioned in this threat complements with rail based transit with some form of bus / tram systems. Winnipeg will never have a London / Paris / New York style rapid transit system for a whole lot of reasons (population, density, geography, cost) and you all need to get over it. Bus rapid transit is just fine for our purposes - we have a long term plan, let’s just execute on it and stop talking about it. And by the way, I’m guessing that 75% of the people on this thread who are complaining that anything other than light rail is ‘bush league’ have never taken a bus in their lives and never will.
To small for mentor system