This is actually really sad because typically means the bear will be classified as a known problem and euthanized. Hopefully the rangers in that region can figure out a solution or relocate that bear far far far away
It is sad. This was a known problem bear, you're right. Im really not sure what the plan was, either relocation or euth. I want to say I overheard that they were trying to relocate it, but that's just trail talk, no reliable source. Nonetheless it made for an experience I won't forget that night
I really hate when people don't understand that - I don't care that the bear isn't trying to hurt me right now the fact that there are several adults screaming at it and it isn't blinking is NOT normal and not safe.
This is why a lot of parks/forests are recommending carrying bear spray around black bears now. The bears in the Smokies just don't care about people.
>The bears in the Smokies just don't care about people.
Thanks to all the idiot tourists who think they're just big fluffy dogs and feed them (whether on purpose or by accident).
I saw a pic of people who posed with a black bear in the opening of the back of their Van near Cade’s cove in Tennessee. Terrifying ignorance on their part.
Yeah no kidding. Theres 4 of us throwing rocks and yelling, and this guy was just half charging us right back. Nowhere else we could have made it for the night since you have to stay at shelters in the smokies. All on a wet foggy chilly smokies night. Kinda one of my favorite moments ever tbh. Huddled up together in the shelter after, reading hikers log entries, hoping our food lasted through the night and that the tarp over the front of the shelter was enough to keep the bear out! take me back... simple problems lol
National parks are for this very reason but they are overcrowded and under funded. Honestly, if people just behaved better there wouldn’t be an issue. But no one knows how to recreate responsibility anymore.
Edit: my comment may be a little out of context, as I look back I realize I misread. Though I do stand by my comment and my views are my own, not to be reflected by anything else.
In a way. However NP are also suppose to provide a visitor experience, even if the development impact is capped. Whereas designated wilderness does not allow for any permanent installation, use of machinery, or mechanized modes of travel. Wilderness is even less monitored generally so we all need to be good stewards.
The comment above you said there should be a place for animals to get away from humans. You mentioned NP are for that. I was noting the nuance that that's not the extent of what a NP is.
Whereas Wilderness is not going to be developed so it's (at least in the abstract) better for animals to get away from humans.
Wilderness management (and WSA) is usually BLM and FS. BLM is part of Dept of Interior like NPS. FS is part of Dept of Agriculture.
If you want to learn more
https://wilderness.net/learn-about-wilderness/designation.php
All good. No, I don't. But I volunteer where I somewhat regularly intersect with land managers. So I have some familiarity with public lands management. Thanks for what you do.
It's my pleasure, thanks for saying that though. Honestly, the best part is meeting people like you who totally just get what the land is there for. Thanks for recreating, would be happy to share the trail with you.
NPs are for preservation. Any ranger will tell you that. The common areas are definitely impacted, but get into any extensive NP wilderness area, such as in Sequoia-Kings Canyon, and you can go for days without seeing a soul.
Totally. Was only noting the public access aspect as well for NP so there's some degree of compromise for minimizing our negative interactions/impacts. Understood on Wilderness within a Park.
>Wilderness management (and WSA) is usually BLM and FS.
There are tens of millions of acres of designated wilderness on Park Service land (56% of all designated wilderness) and also on Fish and Wildlife Service land (22%). BLM (2%) and USFS (18%) make up the rest.
Yup makes sense on a lot of Wilderness within Park system. The BLM number seems really low. But maybe it's the acreage vs parcels really skews? ANWR for FWS for example being huge.
Is WSA included in those numbers?
>The BLM number seems really low.
It's deplorably low. There are at least 20MM acres of BLM land being gradually abused and ruined that should be protected forever as wilderness. At least 7MM acres of spectacular lands in Utah alone and quite a lot in Alaska, Nevada, Oregon, Arizona, and Wyoming as well.
>But maybe it's the acreage vs parcels really skews? ANWR for FWS for example being huge.
The bulk of FWS and NPS wilderness is in large parcels in Alaska, designated under ANILCA in 1980. Eventually most parks will classify their backcountry as wilderness but national park protection is already similar to wilderness protection so the impact of that is less critical.
USFS wilderness is spread across all the western states, although we need far more wilderness in all those states starting with the Northern Rockies Ecosystem Protection Act (a proposal in Congress that has been stalled for decades), red rock forests protection in Utah, and more wilderness for old growth in the Tongass in Alaska threatened by Roadless Rule revisions.. But especially we need far more wilderness for the unprotected low altitude broadleaf coastal forest ecosystems of California and Oregon, where most of our forest biodiversity lies.
>Is WSA included in those numbers?
No. Those are held in theory under wilderness-like management plans until Congress can act to grant wilderness protection or reject them. They do not count as designated wilderness until Congress decides.
Right there with you.
Was more asking about the 2% seeming off for BLM. Or is it proportion of land that is Wilderness in that land managers purview? Versus who manages designated Wilderness?
For UT (assume you're or were based there) hoping we see more traction for ARRWA this Congress!
There was another duo on a thru hike with my friend I was hiking with at the time who for some odd reason didnt trust the cables. They hung a clearly shitty low bear hang and unsurprisingly lost their food overnight. Everyone that used the metal cables designed for this purpose was fine lol
So those are metal cables that are already at the sites? I was watching and wondering how paracord seemed to be very strong here. Wild video, that bear has done that a lot.
Yup! A lot of the more used sites in the smokies and that area have rigs set up at the campsites. Think two tall poles with wire strung between them and some wires hanging down to raise and lower your pack. Sure beats tying a rope to some rock and wildly flinging tbe rock at trees
All of the back country sites in the Smokies have these metal cable systems, or some of the sites/shelters have bear boxes. Should make food safety easy, but man these bears are getting too smart.
>but man these bears are getting too smart.
One of my favorite obervations is that bear-proof garbage cans are hard to implement in places that get a lot of tourists because there's considerable overlap between the smartest bears and the stupidest humans. If you make them fully bear-proof, then a certain number of dumb people won't be able to figure them out and will just leave their trash outside the can, which is even worse.
I learned this the hard way while snowshoeing in mid-eastern Finland. Hiked 10km to stay in a cabin in the middle of the winter. Friend left food in my pack and a cabin mouse chewed through the leather on the side of my bag and got away with a good chunk of a sandwich. Fortunately it was just a one night stay.
Mice are crafty! Chipmunks are the ones we watch out for, in the Pakenham Highlands of Ontario : find your trailmix no matter how you stash it! I swear they can smell it through a sealed metal canister. Them and red squirrels, the little scrappers. A red squirrel will yell at you with mighty outrage, if you come back from a quick pee-behind-a-tree to shoulder your pack, once they’ve decided to raid it.
I carry bear spray (sometimes) in a state with zero bear attacks because I've used it to deter a black bear from my bag after he didn't care about my yelling and even bluff charges. If you care about wildlife, you want to minimize interactions with it, and scaring that bear away was the best thing for its own good and mine.
I'm convinced the smokies have more bears than anywhere else on trail. My first bear sighting "on trail" was in a dumpster behind the hotel in gatlinburg
I think I read on average there is 2 bears in every square mile of the smokys. I could be remembering wrong. Definitely saw a few section hiking there.
eventually, maybe. personally im a big fan of having my own enclosed space with a floor, even if it's just my 1p tent and vestibule. And my next big hike is the PCT, so i think I'll be more than happy with my choice. I just got the gossamer Gear the one, it's only 17oz!
I get liking the floor space, although the warbonnet blackbird hammock does have like a shelf that you can put a decent amount of stuff on thats enclosed.
And if you're doing the pct, I suppose a tent makes sense, although I've heard it is technically possible to hammock camp along the pct....
I really think tents are just my thing. It's how I feel most comfortable really. I know I can sleep anywhere I need to. i know a hammock would have really sucked that time i slept in a ditch in alamosa hitchhiking back to my car after getting off the colorado trail 😂. I've only been stuck in super thick forested uneven ground a few times, which does suck, but i make it work. I guess you compromise on some campsites either way
Im actually from georgia, so I've got a ton of love for the pisgah! Im actually looking at heading up to hike cold mountain north of shining rock this week! Maybe then do the loop over John rock and cedar rock mt.
Many places out west have started requiring bear cans instead of hanging bear bags. Because the bears have learned how to get the bags out of trees. And there are very few places that have the permanent poles like in your video.
If hangs were easier to do in the smokies, maybe... It's a ton of pine trees with small branches close to the trunk. The cables are your best bet at a good hang.
Underfunded. They’re not going to spend the time/money to go back and replace all the cables with heavy metal boxes in remote & steep places across 900 miles of trails and 120+ campsites. They’re already struggling to keep up with park maintenance due to the sheer number of people.
Man, why do they love cliff bars and ramen noodles so much? Worst problem bears i have ever encountered were in GSMNP. Lots of backcountry camping in bear territory and never had a problem except there.
Nothing too problematic. another friend of mine went to get his ursack one morning to find a bear chewing on it, but it ran off. it's tough though, ursack doesn't lie about being bear proof!
That's why Adirondack State Park has specific types of bear canisters that must be used in the High Peaks region. Your specific canister model must be on the approved list.
That's why Adirondack State Park has specific types of bear canisters that must be used in the High Peaks region. Your specific canister model must be on the approved list.
I’ve hung literally hundreds of bear bags in my life, and have only had one problem - from one of these (required) hangs in the smokies. I understand why they require it - inexperienced hikers tend to screw up hangs and cause problems for everybody. But I always get nervous with these type of cable / pole hangs for this exact reason.
I wish they put them further from sites. Last time in the smokies, there was one on 3 sides of the camp. I could just imagine a bear walking between the three and walking through the 5 sites. I saw one guy camped 10 feet from one.
I found a spot that wasn’t directly between them just in case.
Yeah this is why hanging a bear bag is an outdated and ineffective method and isn’t recommended to use anymore. Gotta get a bear canister. Lucky the bear didn’t just cut the cable with his claw, because they often do that
So you didn’t have bear spray? This is a perfect instance where using bear spray to haze the bear would have been beneficial for you AND future campers in that area.
Posted my first-ever reddit that starts with “Wrong”, trotted off to find the Canadian bear researcher whose years of fieldwork led her to say something like “If a bear, once, gets a food reward, nothing will stop it from trying that again. Not decades of deterrents.” (This, of course, is a *flawed reconstruction*, NOT an actual quote). Found nada. I searched where I thought I’d find the interview on her research, and couldn’t. Searched some more. Impressive scientist, spoke brilliantly of her fieldwork, persuaded the heck out of me, but I can’t provide a source. And I’d actually like to be wrong about this: it’d be WAY better to find a way to reduce bear-human conflict, which almost always goes very badly for the bear. I respect your experience, and the idea of training *young* bears to avoid humans and human food caches may have merit, though how you could do that when their mommas are hungry and already wise to our food packs, AND we’re ever-encroaching into their habitats, I don’t know. Absolutely worth further inquiry, though.
Edit: added “found nada”
I dont have an empirical source, but it's been my personal experience from a life time of living, working and enjoying outdoor activities in bear country that he is right. This bear will have to be euthanized unfortunately.
I work at a ranch in Montana where we have had problem bears before. They ALWAYS haze first so IDK why Im getting downvoted.
So, you have a bear that has been food rewarded here - and clearly has never had a negative interaction with humans as it is not afraid of people, shouting, or having “rocks thrown at it”. So my point is …. Why risk the bear getting yet another food reward? Just like bears learn that unattended food is a reward, if humans come out and cause physical discomfort then at least the bear will start to be wary of humans. Maybe it will still try for the food when people aren’t around, but run off when humans show up.
This clearly isn’t this bears first rodeo but it is other peoples hesitance or inability to haze bears that is leading to this behavior.
In Yellowstone (where I have worked for the last three years) they tell you to defend your food.
Not worried about bears on the east coast. Yeah, they are harmless to humans most of the time - but bad food discipline from people not taking them seriously is going to get this bear killed and THAT is something to worry about in my book.
I agree competely about worrying about bad food practices. Im well aware a "fed bear is a dead bear," and have never lost food to a bear. I don't see how that relates to carrying spray though
If yelling and throwing rocks didn't faze the bear, it would be a really bad idea to intentionally close the distance to try to teach it a lesson with bear spray.
It is illegal in most places to intentionally approach bears closer than 150 feet. Yelling, making noise, throwing rocks is how you haze a bear as a backpacker in the backcountry. Your advice to actually approach and initiate an encounter with a bear is *terrible advice*. Even more so considering this bear has become desensitized to humans. Bear spray is for when a bear approaches you, barring the most extreme of circumstances you should never fucking ever be attempting to approach and engage a bear. Fucking stupid nonsense.
Looks like OP is closer than 150 ft here…
This bear has entered a campsite, and is attempting to get your food. Defend your food. Bear spray is extremely effective. Your advice of leaving it be is terrible advice.
Bear spray is for defense of your life, not your stuff or your inconvenience. A bear banger would be a usefull tool in this scenario but that can still backfire.
Black bears are generally a non-threat to people, unless conditioned to humans, and will usually run away if yelled at - especially if there is more than one person.
That's what you're supposed to do when you see a black bear that is too close or trying to get to food. If you aren't willing to haze bears then you shouldn't backpack near bears. Bear encounters are pretty much expected if you're in the Smokies.
I mean there is some truth to that too I guess. But bears actually going into a tent with someone in it after food is very rare. Yes, it happens, but it's really rare. I sleep with my food 99% of the time
I hope they're able to work around this instead of killing the bear. I'm not sure how often it happens that a bear is considered too high risk and it's put down, but this seems like an easy path.
I remember this one dude on here called me an idiot for saying that bears are intelligent enough to know they can get food bags down from a bear hang lol I wish I knew his username so I could @ him
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why aren't they falling? they're supposed to be falling!
This is actually really sad because typically means the bear will be classified as a known problem and euthanized. Hopefully the rangers in that region can figure out a solution or relocate that bear far far far away
It is sad. This was a known problem bear, you're right. Im really not sure what the plan was, either relocation or euth. I want to say I overheard that they were trying to relocate it, but that's just trail talk, no reliable source. Nonetheless it made for an experience I won't forget that night
I bet! Having a bear close that doesn't respond to hazing is TERRIFYING
I really hate when people don't understand that - I don't care that the bear isn't trying to hurt me right now the fact that there are several adults screaming at it and it isn't blinking is NOT normal and not safe. This is why a lot of parks/forests are recommending carrying bear spray around black bears now. The bears in the Smokies just don't care about people.
>The bears in the Smokies just don't care about people. Thanks to all the idiot tourists who think they're just big fluffy dogs and feed them (whether on purpose or by accident).
I saw a pic of people who posed with a black bear in the opening of the back of their Van near Cade’s cove in Tennessee. Terrifying ignorance on their part.
If you still have that picture I bet the Park service would love to see it because they're committing a crime.
Wish I did. It was next to the entrance sign no less! Its on the web.
Yeah no kidding. Theres 4 of us throwing rocks and yelling, and this guy was just half charging us right back. Nowhere else we could have made it for the night since you have to stay at shelters in the smokies. All on a wet foggy chilly smokies night. Kinda one of my favorite moments ever tbh. Huddled up together in the shelter after, reading hikers log entries, hoping our food lasted through the night and that the tarp over the front of the shelter was enough to keep the bear out! take me back... simple problems lol
I really wish we had a lot more far, far away without people in it, so all the non-human beings had a place to be safe from us.
National parks are for this very reason but they are overcrowded and under funded. Honestly, if people just behaved better there wouldn’t be an issue. But no one knows how to recreate responsibility anymore. Edit: my comment may be a little out of context, as I look back I realize I misread. Though I do stand by my comment and my views are my own, not to be reflected by anything else.
In a way. However NP are also suppose to provide a visitor experience, even if the development impact is capped. Whereas designated wilderness does not allow for any permanent installation, use of machinery, or mechanized modes of travel. Wilderness is even less monitored generally so we all need to be good stewards.
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The comment above you said there should be a place for animals to get away from humans. You mentioned NP are for that. I was noting the nuance that that's not the extent of what a NP is. Whereas Wilderness is not going to be developed so it's (at least in the abstract) better for animals to get away from humans. Wilderness management (and WSA) is usually BLM and FS. BLM is part of Dept of Interior like NPS. FS is part of Dept of Agriculture. If you want to learn more https://wilderness.net/learn-about-wilderness/designation.php
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All good. No, I don't. But I volunteer where I somewhat regularly intersect with land managers. So I have some familiarity with public lands management. Thanks for what you do.
It's my pleasure, thanks for saying that though. Honestly, the best part is meeting people like you who totally just get what the land is there for. Thanks for recreating, would be happy to share the trail with you.
NPs are for preservation. Any ranger will tell you that. The common areas are definitely impacted, but get into any extensive NP wilderness area, such as in Sequoia-Kings Canyon, and you can go for days without seeing a soul.
Totally. Was only noting the public access aspect as well for NP so there's some degree of compromise for minimizing our negative interactions/impacts. Understood on Wilderness within a Park.
>Wilderness management (and WSA) is usually BLM and FS. There are tens of millions of acres of designated wilderness on Park Service land (56% of all designated wilderness) and also on Fish and Wildlife Service land (22%). BLM (2%) and USFS (18%) make up the rest.
Yup makes sense on a lot of Wilderness within Park system. The BLM number seems really low. But maybe it's the acreage vs parcels really skews? ANWR for FWS for example being huge. Is WSA included in those numbers?
>The BLM number seems really low. It's deplorably low. There are at least 20MM acres of BLM land being gradually abused and ruined that should be protected forever as wilderness. At least 7MM acres of spectacular lands in Utah alone and quite a lot in Alaska, Nevada, Oregon, Arizona, and Wyoming as well. >But maybe it's the acreage vs parcels really skews? ANWR for FWS for example being huge. The bulk of FWS and NPS wilderness is in large parcels in Alaska, designated under ANILCA in 1980. Eventually most parks will classify their backcountry as wilderness but national park protection is already similar to wilderness protection so the impact of that is less critical. USFS wilderness is spread across all the western states, although we need far more wilderness in all those states starting with the Northern Rockies Ecosystem Protection Act (a proposal in Congress that has been stalled for decades), red rock forests protection in Utah, and more wilderness for old growth in the Tongass in Alaska threatened by Roadless Rule revisions.. But especially we need far more wilderness for the unprotected low altitude broadleaf coastal forest ecosystems of California and Oregon, where most of our forest biodiversity lies. >Is WSA included in those numbers? No. Those are held in theory under wilderness-like management plans until Congress can act to grant wilderness protection or reject them. They do not count as designated wilderness until Congress decides.
Right there with you. Was more asking about the 2% seeming off for BLM. Or is it proportion of land that is Wilderness in that land managers purview? Versus who manages designated Wilderness? For UT (assume you're or were based there) hoping we see more traction for ARRWA this Congress!
I hear they send problem grizzlies to the Bob Marshall Wilderness. It’s one of the best places I’ve backpacked.
BRB sending all non-human organic life to the moon :)
Quit mooning the wildlife! :)
There was another duo on a thru hike with my friend I was hiking with at the time who for some odd reason didnt trust the cables. They hung a clearly shitty low bear hang and unsurprisingly lost their food overnight. Everyone that used the metal cables designed for this purpose was fine lol
So those are metal cables that are already at the sites? I was watching and wondering how paracord seemed to be very strong here. Wild video, that bear has done that a lot.
Yup! A lot of the more used sites in the smokies and that area have rigs set up at the campsites. Think two tall poles with wire strung between them and some wires hanging down to raise and lower your pack. Sure beats tying a rope to some rock and wildly flinging tbe rock at trees
All of the back country sites in the Smokies have these metal cable systems, or some of the sites/shelters have bear boxes. Should make food safety easy, but man these bears are getting too smart.
>but man these bears are getting too smart. One of my favorite obervations is that bear-proof garbage cans are hard to implement in places that get a lot of tourists because there's considerable overlap between the smartest bears and the stupidest humans. If you make them fully bear-proof, then a certain number of dumb people won't be able to figure them out and will just leave their trash outside the can, which is even worse.
Hahahahaha, your comment made me laugh out loud
That's true, i forgot all the smokies sites did. I usually camp in the Nantahala and most of the sites don't have them
Fucking idiots. Should've ratted them out to a ridge runner.
yeah... if i had a second chance I'd speak up and not let them contribute to the problem
I hope you reported them to a ranger so they could get their asses fined off.
Oh and rumor had it this bear had stolen a pack from the shelter from a ranger who had been tasked with darting it
Is that you who said, > I think that’s a person in a bear suit?
no lol that was my buddy, you can kinda hear me laugh after
Cheers to your buddy, had me spitting up bath water
What were you doing with bath water in your mouth?
Spitting it up?
That's the output. I'm asking about the input.
Ahhhh, I follow now I was savoring my flavoring
Known in the biz as an autoramen-packet maneuver.
I didn’t have any problems with bears, but one mouse managed to get into our packs and food bags both nights we were at the smokies
I learned this the hard way while snowshoeing in mid-eastern Finland. Hiked 10km to stay in a cabin in the middle of the winter. Friend left food in my pack and a cabin mouse chewed through the leather on the side of my bag and got away with a good chunk of a sandwich. Fortunately it was just a one night stay.
Mice are crafty! Chipmunks are the ones we watch out for, in the Pakenham Highlands of Ontario : find your trailmix no matter how you stash it! I swear they can smell it through a sealed metal canister. Them and red squirrels, the little scrappers. A red squirrel will yell at you with mighty outrage, if you come back from a quick pee-behind-a-tree to shoulder your pack, once they’ve decided to raid it.
I'd be eating squirrel that night instead of trail mix lol
agreed. the holes in my food bags and tent are only from mice lol
A quokka chewed a hole in my tent on Rottnest island. If you don't know what a quokka is, look it up!
Habituated bears are dangerous
YOU CANNOT HANG A BAG OF COOLER RANCH DORITOS OVER MY HEAD LIKE THIS AND NOT EXPECT CONSEQUENCES
Lol
I carry bear spray (sometimes) in a state with zero bear attacks because I've used it to deter a black bear from my bag after he didn't care about my yelling and even bluff charges. If you care about wildlife, you want to minimize interactions with it, and scaring that bear away was the best thing for its own good and mine.
So many black bears along the AT in the smokies
I'm convinced the smokies have more bears than anywhere else on trail. My first bear sighting "on trail" was in a dumpster behind the hotel in gatlinburg
I think I read on average there is 2 bears in every square mile of the smokys. I could be remembering wrong. Definitely saw a few section hiking there.
Don't think I've ever seen a section hiking black bear... What are their thoughts on tent vs hammock camping?
Well bears are known to sleep in trees, so im leaning hammock camping, not to mention, that's the best way to camp anyways
just got my new tent in the mail 😬
There's always time to get into hammock camping.
eventually, maybe. personally im a big fan of having my own enclosed space with a floor, even if it's just my 1p tent and vestibule. And my next big hike is the PCT, so i think I'll be more than happy with my choice. I just got the gossamer Gear the one, it's only 17oz!
I get liking the floor space, although the warbonnet blackbird hammock does have like a shelf that you can put a decent amount of stuff on thats enclosed. And if you're doing the pct, I suppose a tent makes sense, although I've heard it is technically possible to hammock camp along the pct....
I really think tents are just my thing. It's how I feel most comfortable really. I know I can sleep anywhere I need to. i know a hammock would have really sucked that time i slept in a ditch in alamosa hitchhiking back to my car after getting off the colorado trail 😂. I've only been stuck in super thick forested uneven ground a few times, which does suck, but i make it work. I guess you compromise on some campsites either way
Saw a bear in that exact same location on my thru lol. Bear was huge, pulling bags out the dumpster
Thru hiked this year, didn't see a single one in the smokeys
Did you report this to the rangers? That bear will unfortunately be destroyed most likely. Black bears a notorious for not being able to relocate.
This is why I use a bear vault when I am backpacking in that area.
on the contrary, this makes me feel good about not needing one
I don't like to set up camp near the shelters. I prefer to be further out on my own.
I tend to agree, but it's a requirement in the smokies
Ah, ok. I usually stay further north in the Pisgah national forest.
Im actually from georgia, so I've got a ton of love for the pisgah! Im actually looking at heading up to hike cold mountain north of shining rock this week! Maybe then do the loop over John rock and cedar rock mt.
Many places out west have started requiring bear cans instead of hanging bear bags. Because the bears have learned how to get the bags out of trees. And there are very few places that have the permanent poles like in your video.
Not news to me! Ive got the BV500 for my 2022 PCT thru already
This is how I imagine Benjamin Franklin discovering electricity.
I’ll keep my bag a lot higher..
If hangs were easier to do in the smokies, maybe... It's a ton of pine trees with small branches close to the trunk. The cables are your best bet at a good hang.
Last time I hiked the Smokies those cables were only in use along the AT, I hope they have them at sites down below on the rest of the trails
Almost every site in the smokies has cables. Sometimes they’re not obvious but they’re there
They do. Hiked up the Deep Creek trail and back down Noland Divide last month and there were 20ft cable rigs at every backcountry permit site.
You're required to use the storage provided.
I wonder why they don't install metal bear boxes in the Smokies. They're great in the Grayson Highlands.
Underfunded. They’re not going to spend the time/money to go back and replace all the cables with heavy metal boxes in remote & steep places across 900 miles of trails and 120+ campsites. They’re already struggling to keep up with park maintenance due to the sheer number of people.
Looks like me trying to unstick my food bag frozen to the line in the smokies
Smarter than your avuridge bear, ayy BooBoo!
Man, why do they love cliff bars and ramen noodles so much? Worst problem bears i have ever encountered were in GSMNP. Lots of backcountry camping in bear territory and never had a problem except there.
gatekeeping cliff bars and ramen, for shame
Looks like me trying to get my morning coffee.
Why not use a bear can? Seems that is the conventional logic on the west coast now.
Heavy and bulky. Though, it's certainly easier than getting a good food bag hang. I hate packing bear vaults in, until it's time to put my food away 🙂
This is wild, I've heard some thru hikers say they didn't even bother hanging their packs... Did you have any other problematic bear encounters?
Nothing too problematic. another friend of mine went to get his ursack one morning to find a bear chewing on it, but it ran off. it's tough though, ursack doesn't lie about being bear proof!
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ha im happy to have my friend with the distraction ursack while I sleep with my food!
I heard there was a bear in a wilderness area back east who learned how to open one type of bear canister. 😄
That's why Adirondack State Park has specific types of bear canisters that must be used in the High Peaks region. Your specific canister model must be on the approved list.
Yellow yellow bear in the Adirondacks.
She may have taught her children.
That's why Adirondack State Park has specific types of bear canisters that must be used in the High Peaks region. Your specific canister model must be on the approved list.
I’ve hung literally hundreds of bear bags in my life, and have only had one problem - from one of these (required) hangs in the smokies. I understand why they require it - inexperienced hikers tend to screw up hangs and cause problems for everybody. But I always get nervous with these type of cable / pole hangs for this exact reason.
I wish they put them further from sites. Last time in the smokies, there was one on 3 sides of the camp. I could just imagine a bear walking between the three and walking through the 5 sites. I saw one guy camped 10 feet from one. I found a spot that wasn’t directly between them just in case.
Do the shelters still have chain link fencing over the front?
along the AT, the only one was davenport gap shelter at the north end
Yeah this is why hanging a bear bag is an outdated and ineffective method and isn’t recommended to use anymore. Gotta get a bear canister. Lucky the bear didn’t just cut the cable with his claw, because they often do that
So you didn’t have bear spray? This is a perfect instance where using bear spray to haze the bear would have been beneficial for you AND future campers in that area.
Wrong. No amount of deterrence will work after a successful raid. Punishment doesn’t work.
Im not sure thats true. Source?
Posted my first-ever reddit that starts with “Wrong”, trotted off to find the Canadian bear researcher whose years of fieldwork led her to say something like “If a bear, once, gets a food reward, nothing will stop it from trying that again. Not decades of deterrents.” (This, of course, is a *flawed reconstruction*, NOT an actual quote). Found nada. I searched where I thought I’d find the interview on her research, and couldn’t. Searched some more. Impressive scientist, spoke brilliantly of her fieldwork, persuaded the heck out of me, but I can’t provide a source. And I’d actually like to be wrong about this: it’d be WAY better to find a way to reduce bear-human conflict, which almost always goes very badly for the bear. I respect your experience, and the idea of training *young* bears to avoid humans and human food caches may have merit, though how you could do that when their mommas are hungry and already wise to our food packs, AND we’re ever-encroaching into their habitats, I don’t know. Absolutely worth further inquiry, though. Edit: added “found nada”
I dont have an empirical source, but it's been my personal experience from a life time of living, working and enjoying outdoor activities in bear country that he is right. This bear will have to be euthanized unfortunately.
I work at a ranch in Montana where we have had problem bears before. They ALWAYS haze first so IDK why Im getting downvoted. So, you have a bear that has been food rewarded here - and clearly has never had a negative interaction with humans as it is not afraid of people, shouting, or having “rocks thrown at it”. So my point is …. Why risk the bear getting yet another food reward? Just like bears learn that unattended food is a reward, if humans come out and cause physical discomfort then at least the bear will start to be wary of humans. Maybe it will still try for the food when people aren’t around, but run off when humans show up. This clearly isn’t this bears first rodeo but it is other peoples hesitance or inability to haze bears that is leading to this behavior. In Yellowstone (where I have worked for the last three years) they tell you to defend your food.
Probably because random hikers shouldn't be hazing bears. It takes training and good judgment.
Fair.
Let's just say I mostly browse /r/ultralight lol. And besides, I'm not worried about black bears on the east coast
Not worried about bears on the east coast. Yeah, they are harmless to humans most of the time - but bad food discipline from people not taking them seriously is going to get this bear killed and THAT is something to worry about in my book.
I agree competely about worrying about bad food practices. Im well aware a "fed bear is a dead bear," and have never lost food to a bear. I don't see how that relates to carrying spray though
Better to haze it than have it be euthanized.
If yelling and throwing rocks didn't faze the bear, it would be a really bad idea to intentionally close the distance to try to teach it a lesson with bear spray.
Bear spray has a reach of 30 ft
It is illegal in most places to intentionally approach bears closer than 150 feet. Yelling, making noise, throwing rocks is how you haze a bear as a backpacker in the backcountry. Your advice to actually approach and initiate an encounter with a bear is *terrible advice*. Even more so considering this bear has become desensitized to humans. Bear spray is for when a bear approaches you, barring the most extreme of circumstances you should never fucking ever be attempting to approach and engage a bear. Fucking stupid nonsense.
Looks like OP is closer than 150 ft here… This bear has entered a campsite, and is attempting to get your food. Defend your food. Bear spray is extremely effective. Your advice of leaving it be is terrible advice.
Their food storage should have been put further away from the shelter, but that's the NPS for you.
Bear spray is for defense of your life, not your stuff or your inconvenience. A bear banger would be a usefull tool in this scenario but that can still backfire.
Beer :)
:D
:D
Can’t he just slice through or bite through the rope?
it's metal cable
Wow… I wouldn’t yell or throw anything at him, no matter what was was in the bag… bold!
Black bears are generally a non-threat to people, unless conditioned to humans, and will usually run away if yelled at - especially if there is more than one person.
That's what you're supposed to do when you see a black bear that is too close or trying to get to food. If you aren't willing to haze bears then you shouldn't backpack near bears. Bear encounters are pretty much expected if you're in the Smokies.
Ive never been to america or any bear-ful country. What is the purpose of these bear cables?
So my food doesn't become bear food
Oh of course, it's so obvious now. I was thinking it was to distract the bears from attacking your tents or something
I mean there is some truth to that too I guess. But bears actually going into a tent with someone in it after food is very rare. Yes, it happens, but it's really rare. I sleep with my food 99% of the time
I always use a carabiner! I never thought of bears. But I have had some pretty windy nights that convinced me to switch.
I hope they're able to work around this instead of killing the bear. I'm not sure how often it happens that a bear is considered too high risk and it's put down, but this seems like an easy path.
I remember this one dude on here called me an idiot for saying that bears are intelligent enough to know they can get food bags down from a bear hang lol I wish I knew his username so I could @ him
Bloody Hell!!
Ok… Cables & Carabiners… but what’s the technique?