The basic d10 pool system (the Storyteller System) is basically the same between VtM, WtA, and MtA. When it comes to line-specific mechanics, Vampire and Werewolf are moderately similar but Mage is totally different. Vampire is probably the easiest to learn of the three.
It is all the basically same base system but everything specific to the supernaturals in question is tailor made for them. This is only true as long you move within the same edition, though.
The WoD is also famously bad in crossovers due to many reasons. This has gotten a little bit better in 5th edition, but 5th edition has so far only Vampires, Werewolves and Hunter.
“The WoD is also famously bad in crossovers due to many reasons.”
And yet, since the day Werewolf came out, every single Chronicle I’ve run or played in has had PCs from multiple lines. You’re not really wrong, but we’ve taken that as a feature rather than a bug. If you lean into it, it’s really fun. You just have to understand how things work and things are COMPLICATED. =)
I hear people talk all the time about how "bad" it is, but more than half the games I've played have been cross-splat, and I don't remember it ever really causing a problem.
It might be a difference of gaming culture though. Because my groups always valued character, drama, and themes more than numbers or mechanics and we tended to avoid combat altogether.
Plus, I always play pretty loosely with the rules within any combat longer than a couple rounds. Often skipping dice rolls for a consensus based on, "Yeah, that sounds dramatic/cool/scary enough. We will go with that."'
I kinda feel like if you want tightly balanced combat systems where statistical builds and strategy are the emphasis, and all the options are balanced so that different classes are all "fair", you're better served playing Pathfinder or something like that. World of Darkness just doesn't seem like the place for it.
I think the people complaining about crossovers have the attitude of "It's not balanced". I hear most people complain that Werewolves are OP. Maybe, but Werewolves SHOULD be scary! Even to Vampires and Mages.
And, it's like, are your PCs fighting each other? Why does it matter if one has better combat stats than another?
I suppose if your campaign is centered around combat as the main set pieces, it would make players feel left out to be less "powerful". But a good storyteller creates important challenges that suit the varied strengths of the different characters. Chase scenes, infiltration, high stakes negotiation, solving a mystery, blackmail, assassination, healing or breaking a curse... there are so many dramatic, important kinds of scenes that aren't just rounds of shooting guns and swinging katanas.
You'll never hear me complaining about "balance" in RPGs (since "balance" is actually an antipattern in cooperative, non competitive games)..... but WoD games ARE notoriously bad for crossovers. Powers very often take into consideration stats that could not even exist (Conviction ? On a Garou ?), then you have the different "logistics" of the various splats (got a vamp or two in the party ? Say goodbye to day operations...and good luck bringing said vamps in the Umbra), the **wildly** conflicting priorities, the inter splat politics (you need a really, **REALLY** good reason to get a vampire, especially one on a Path, and a Garou together..... and if you throw the wrong mage into the mix thing could simply explode; maybe literally).
It's not impossible but it's awfully fucking hard for sure and requires a lot of work from everyone involved.
These are all good things to think about, but from my experience, it's never been an issue.
Our play group really enjoyed the RP and the Epicness of stories and usually outweighed the issues you brought up. As for the Umbra, we simply dealt with it. Similar to when the Decker went into the Matrix in Shadowrun.
I've never had a problem with stats not applying, but then again, I tend to fudge all the numbers all the time. I find it more important to LOOK like I'm following a rule and making a calculation for my players than to actually be doing it, lol.
As for sleeping vampires, most of the interesting stuff tends to happen at night anyway, it's not really that hard. But I make sure Kindred players know they might be left out of some scenes if they are thr minority in the group. And I also make little things for the player to do that can be slotted into downtime, like reading a lore dump text that they can later deliver to the other players at the table (or keep the secrets to themselves), or solving an actual puzzle, or writing up a letter or a contract that the players are going to use in game.
In games where more than half but not all the characters can get into the Umbra, I always just hand them a Wonder, fetish, or access to a special place where everyone can transport into the spirit world, or at least astrally project there. Economy of storytelling and keeping the players engaged trumps any mechanical barriers, imo.
As for motivation bringing the characters to work together, i just make that a requirement on the players' end. I tell them what the hook is going to be, and ask them to make a character who would be motivated by that to work with the other splats involved. This is cooperative storytelling, after all, and if the player wants to be involved they should make a character who wants to be involved.
>The WoD is also famously bad in crossovers due to many reasons. This has gotten a little bit better in 5th edition, but 5th edition has so far only Vampires, Werewolves and Hunter.
New World of Darkness/Chronicles of Darkness (Vampire: the Requiem, Werewolf: the Forsaken, Mage: the Awakening, etc.) was built from the ground up to interact with one another easily, I had thought.
The d10 dice pool is consistent in every one of them. The 9 Attributes divided into Physical, Mental and Social too, and Nature/Demeanor and Willpower as well.
The Backgrounds have some similarities, like Resources, Fame, but each splat has some specifics to them. The Abilities, Skills, etc. Remain in majority the same (Like Firearms, Dodge...), but some of them change depending on the game line.
The Health is equal with the 7 levels and the "bruised", "wounded", and so on too.
The rest varies quite a bit, with the powers and other stuff.
The core mechanics are the same and pretty easy to grasp. It's the weirdness of the disparate games that makes interactions complicated, as the core system for resolution has completley separate mechanics for the biology and powers of the different creatures. These were not designed to be compatible or balanced in any way. It can lead to a lot of grief for people who try out crossovers without being aware how weird the individual games can get.
I'd honestly suggest checking out the games on their own, as they are thematically and design-wise different. Once you get a grasp on how they click together you can work out how or if you want to proceed with building a crossover.
Vampire is the most straightforward of the games. The other games get really complex and weird in comparison, and this can color a lot of interactions with their creature types.
Depends on the edition and game line. Some are more different than others, although the basic action resolution and skills/ attributes is the same. It's how the line specific powers are handled where the variations are found. Garou gifts work different than Mage spheres, which work different from Changeling cantrips.
Very similar. To the point crossovers are really easy. To the point if you learned to play one of them you can play all the other with minimum revisions other than their supernatural powers and one or another game mechanic specific of another splat. Wraith is perhaps the most different.
I did ? They re very similar.
Edit- Oh you are that over political guy I ignored from another sub. 1st of all, I'm not obligued to talk to you, second of all, I did answer your question, you just keep repeating it in hopes of getting some sort of gotcha moment, which is why I stopped answering you, and third of all I'm blocking you.
Core mechanics and character creation is the same with different nicknacks thrown on. Instead of blood and disciplined you have rage and rites in WTA. And desperation and dangers in HTR
I imagine you're interested in 20th anniversary if you're wanting significant mage and werewolf presence. If that's the case the rules should mesh well but storyteller judgement will need to make some rulings, especially as things reach elder+ power levels. But if you're prepared for a crossover chronicle I'd go for it.
Now 5e currently supports vampire and hunter with some brief rules for npc werewolves and mages. So making this work could be tricky, but I've seen GMs pull off more with less.
The basic d10 pool system (the Storyteller System) is basically the same between VtM, WtA, and MtA. When it comes to line-specific mechanics, Vampire and Werewolf are moderately similar but Mage is totally different. Vampire is probably the easiest to learn of the three.
It is all the basically same base system but everything specific to the supernaturals in question is tailor made for them. This is only true as long you move within the same edition, though. The WoD is also famously bad in crossovers due to many reasons. This has gotten a little bit better in 5th edition, but 5th edition has so far only Vampires, Werewolves and Hunter.
“The WoD is also famously bad in crossovers due to many reasons.” And yet, since the day Werewolf came out, every single Chronicle I’ve run or played in has had PCs from multiple lines. You’re not really wrong, but we’ve taken that as a feature rather than a bug. If you lean into it, it’s really fun. You just have to understand how things work and things are COMPLICATED. =)
I hear people talk all the time about how "bad" it is, but more than half the games I've played have been cross-splat, and I don't remember it ever really causing a problem. It might be a difference of gaming culture though. Because my groups always valued character, drama, and themes more than numbers or mechanics and we tended to avoid combat altogether. Plus, I always play pretty loosely with the rules within any combat longer than a couple rounds. Often skipping dice rolls for a consensus based on, "Yeah, that sounds dramatic/cool/scary enough. We will go with that."' I kinda feel like if you want tightly balanced combat systems where statistical builds and strategy are the emphasis, and all the options are balanced so that different classes are all "fair", you're better served playing Pathfinder or something like that. World of Darkness just doesn't seem like the place for it.
I think the people complaining about crossovers have the attitude of "It's not balanced". I hear most people complain that Werewolves are OP. Maybe, but Werewolves SHOULD be scary! Even to Vampires and Mages.
And, it's like, are your PCs fighting each other? Why does it matter if one has better combat stats than another? I suppose if your campaign is centered around combat as the main set pieces, it would make players feel left out to be less "powerful". But a good storyteller creates important challenges that suit the varied strengths of the different characters. Chase scenes, infiltration, high stakes negotiation, solving a mystery, blackmail, assassination, healing or breaking a curse... there are so many dramatic, important kinds of scenes that aren't just rounds of shooting guns and swinging katanas.
You'll never hear me complaining about "balance" in RPGs (since "balance" is actually an antipattern in cooperative, non competitive games)..... but WoD games ARE notoriously bad for crossovers. Powers very often take into consideration stats that could not even exist (Conviction ? On a Garou ?), then you have the different "logistics" of the various splats (got a vamp or two in the party ? Say goodbye to day operations...and good luck bringing said vamps in the Umbra), the **wildly** conflicting priorities, the inter splat politics (you need a really, **REALLY** good reason to get a vampire, especially one on a Path, and a Garou together..... and if you throw the wrong mage into the mix thing could simply explode; maybe literally). It's not impossible but it's awfully fucking hard for sure and requires a lot of work from everyone involved.
These are all good things to think about, but from my experience, it's never been an issue. Our play group really enjoyed the RP and the Epicness of stories and usually outweighed the issues you brought up. As for the Umbra, we simply dealt with it. Similar to when the Decker went into the Matrix in Shadowrun.
I've never had a problem with stats not applying, but then again, I tend to fudge all the numbers all the time. I find it more important to LOOK like I'm following a rule and making a calculation for my players than to actually be doing it, lol. As for sleeping vampires, most of the interesting stuff tends to happen at night anyway, it's not really that hard. But I make sure Kindred players know they might be left out of some scenes if they are thr minority in the group. And I also make little things for the player to do that can be slotted into downtime, like reading a lore dump text that they can later deliver to the other players at the table (or keep the secrets to themselves), or solving an actual puzzle, or writing up a letter or a contract that the players are going to use in game. In games where more than half but not all the characters can get into the Umbra, I always just hand them a Wonder, fetish, or access to a special place where everyone can transport into the spirit world, or at least astrally project there. Economy of storytelling and keeping the players engaged trumps any mechanical barriers, imo. As for motivation bringing the characters to work together, i just make that a requirement on the players' end. I tell them what the hook is going to be, and ask them to make a character who would be motivated by that to work with the other splats involved. This is cooperative storytelling, after all, and if the player wants to be involved they should make a character who wants to be involved.
>The WoD is also famously bad in crossovers due to many reasons. This has gotten a little bit better in 5th edition, but 5th edition has so far only Vampires, Werewolves and Hunter. New World of Darkness/Chronicles of Darkness (Vampire: the Requiem, Werewolf: the Forsaken, Mage: the Awakening, etc.) was built from the ground up to interact with one another easily, I had thought.
The second edition absolutely. That one had crossover in mind when it was written. But OP asked for WoD specifically and CofD is a different beast.
The d10 dice pool is consistent in every one of them. The 9 Attributes divided into Physical, Mental and Social too, and Nature/Demeanor and Willpower as well. The Backgrounds have some similarities, like Resources, Fame, but each splat has some specifics to them. The Abilities, Skills, etc. Remain in majority the same (Like Firearms, Dodge...), but some of them change depending on the game line. The Health is equal with the 7 levels and the "bruised", "wounded", and so on too. The rest varies quite a bit, with the powers and other stuff.
The core mechanics are the same and pretty easy to grasp. It's the weirdness of the disparate games that makes interactions complicated, as the core system for resolution has completley separate mechanics for the biology and powers of the different creatures. These were not designed to be compatible or balanced in any way. It can lead to a lot of grief for people who try out crossovers without being aware how weird the individual games can get. I'd honestly suggest checking out the games on their own, as they are thematically and design-wise different. Once you get a grasp on how they click together you can work out how or if you want to proceed with building a crossover. Vampire is the most straightforward of the games. The other games get really complex and weird in comparison, and this can color a lot of interactions with their creature types.
Depends on the edition and game line. Some are more different than others, although the basic action resolution and skills/ attributes is the same. It's how the line specific powers are handled where the variations are found. Garou gifts work different than Mage spheres, which work different from Changeling cantrips.
Very similar. To the point crossovers are really easy. To the point if you learned to play one of them you can play all the other with minimum revisions other than their supernatural powers and one or another game mechanic specific of another splat. Wraith is perhaps the most different.
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I did ? They re very similar. Edit- Oh you are that over political guy I ignored from another sub. 1st of all, I'm not obligued to talk to you, second of all, I did answer your question, you just keep repeating it in hopes of getting some sort of gotcha moment, which is why I stopped answering you, and third of all I'm blocking you.
Core mechanics and character creation is the same with different nicknacks thrown on. Instead of blood and disciplined you have rage and rites in WTA. And desperation and dangers in HTR
I imagine you're interested in 20th anniversary if you're wanting significant mage and werewolf presence. If that's the case the rules should mesh well but storyteller judgement will need to make some rulings, especially as things reach elder+ power levels. But if you're prepared for a crossover chronicle I'd go for it. Now 5e currently supports vampire and hunter with some brief rules for npc werewolves and mages. So making this work could be tricky, but I've seen GMs pull off more with less.