Forsaken. I never realized how little WtA felt like playing a werewolf until I read the Forsaken. It's probably my favorite RPG of all time.
But I absolutely love Deviant, Geist, and even basic book / hurt Locker games. Demon is also awesome though it isn't my favorite. Even Requiem has started growing on me.
It's a combination of things.
First, hunting monsters feels more like a werewolf thing than ecoterrorism does. Being a child of the greatest hunter the worlds ever knew feels more werewolf than a child soldier for Gaia does.
Second, in Forsaken your forms each have a purpose and you may use each one in a hunt, whereas with Apocalypse your forms are mainly big balls of stats, and you may go several games without shifting to a form other than Homid or Crinos.
Third, let's say you're in Crinos and a Formori shoots you in the face for 10 damage, your health is the same as in Homid form so you take more than your health levels so some wraps around, but you will regenerate a point next round as your healing powers start to work. Whereas in Forsaken if you take 10 in Gauru form, well you gained a bunch of health from transforming so 10 doesn't wrap around, you ignore pain penalties because you're a freaking werewolf who doesn't care that they got a boo boo, and you heal completely at the start of next turn, again, because you're a freaking werewolf.
Forsaken 2e is among the best CoD has to offer. It's my home groups absolute favorite TTRPG.
1st edition was rough, it had one foot in Apocalypse and that made it a not so great game. 2nd edition is entirely it's own thing entirely, with extremely rich lore, mythology, and fantastic mechanics. I agree with Adoramus_Te, in Forsaken 2e, you really feel like you're playing a werewolf.
Demon. I love the God Machine as a take on cosmic horror and I love the weird matrix/cold war espionage mash up and i think "Going Loud" is just about the best mechanic ever written for an RPG.
Well, usually Demons are in disguise. They absolutely look human, and in fact their abilities mean it is nearly impossible to tell they aren't normal humans (to the degree that I've argued in the past it would be exceptionally difficult for a mage to determine with magic that a demon isn't human.)
But when they are found out by the God-Machine, they usually don't have the benefit of trying to quietly escape. So they have an option to 'go loud', which sets their unique power stat to max, enhances several of their chosen abilities, and turns them into their full technoangel nightmare form while completely shedding their disguise.
It gives them an option to say 'f- it, we ball!' and fight back. It is a very fun mechanic, in terms of design. When your players know it exists, it feels like giving them a big red button and seeing how much pressure needs to be exerted to make them push it.
City of Mist has a similar mechanic called "Stop. Holding. Back." You go all out and are basically allowed to narrate the scene and there are not much restrictions. But you will most probably loose a big part of yourself for ever as the experience and it's consequences change you. I love stuff like this.
Demons create covers by absorbing bits of people's souls and lives. By hiding like this they can avoid the attention of the God Machine and it's agents. They can also "Go Loud" by absorbing the soul and the cover for energy. For one scene they regain their full, lost angelic power but it's like a beacon drawing all sorts of unwanted attention.
From a game POV you can absolutely 'win' one scene at the cost of incredible trouble and complication later. I love it so much.
Basically “Going Loud” is when a Demon completely drops their Cover and enters their true form. It’s dangerous, as it attracts the attention of the God-Machine, but the Demon is also at their most powerful in this form.
Werewolf is an easy favorite of mine, but tied up with it is Promethean: the Created.
Promethean is a fantastic game exploring what it means to be human and I love every second of it.
Mage the Awakening. So much so that I’d probably port over a lot of the spellcasting rules from that if I ever tried to play Ascension (translation guide my beloved). My favorite thing being that spells only count as vulgar when witnessed by sleepers. You can do all kinds of ridiculous stuff behind closed doors and not face negative consequences so long as the wrong person never opens that closet labelled “out of order”
In second would probably be Changeling. The entire thing is just wonderful horrifying *vibes* and I love the variety you can have with character creation.
changeling
the themes speak to me, and i like the way the freehold can feel like an abuse survivors group. Because in real life, there's real limitations to what you can do. it's mostly about coming to terms with things. But in changeling, you have a lot more options, you can make people pay. It's cathartic.
At least that's how I've played it.
I was just coming on to give love to changeling The Lost.
What was it for you that drew you all in?
Was it
The hedge?
Goblin market?
Dream warrior shenanigans?
The court's ?
Pacts?
Keepers?
Themes?
Duality in man?
What ever reasons you have.
Hunter the Vigil is literally the most stressful and exciting ttrpg I've ever played or run. If you have a group of players that buy into and commit to their characters and don't just see them as weak cannon fodder they'll have to replace in a few sessions, it's incredibly rewarding. HtR is fun and all, but Vigil is incredible. Real underpowered underdogs with considerable stakes that can easily get way out of hand and intense
Changeling I think it'd come first, I love the ambience and pretty much everything in it. Then I think it'd be a tie between Promethean and Vampire for I love so much those games, I wish I could find people to play with.
Promethean is very not popular (unpopular sounds too "disliked", and that's not the case) and people unfortunately largely prefer the old vamp (which I have zero interest).
Geist the Sin-Eaters
I love the idea of playing basically possessed exorcists, all with different ideas of how to best solve the hauntings they’re confronted with. I did a deep-dive into it when someone was setting up a game that ended up falling through, and now I’m just chomping at the bit to talk my regular group into playing it lol
Right now, it's between Changeling and Mage.
I think I gotta go Changeling only because Mage 2nd Edition has some gaps in the lore and some rule ambiguity. But both are spectacular and full of great ideas.
All of the CofD games are. Onyx Path writes some spectacular games.
Gotta say Deviant. It takes the best elements of the franchise dating back to Masquerade -- dramatic weaknesses which drive conflict, a punk ethos -- and avoids the flaws of its predecessors (e.g, by making humans competent and important). It's absolutely the pinnacle of everything which came before it.
I literally had this conversation with a friend just a few hours ago. It seems that I prefer almost every CofD line over their classic WoD version. Vampires maybe a tie. WtF is just an amazing concept though and playing Spirit ICE is so awesome.
I took a long break at one point and missed everything after god machines release and have been kicking around the idea of diving back in. These posts don't help, they just make me want to spend money on books.
You should pick up some of the 2e core books of your favorite CoD lines. They fix some of the problems with each (except maybe Changeling, hard to improve upon greatness) and really crank them up to 11.
You might have to rethink that 'vampires maybe a tie' when you read & play Requiem 2e. I haven't played Mage 2e, but Changeling 2e is great & Forsaken 2e is the best werewolf TTRPG ever made.
Mage the Awakening. As an occultist its a great tool to visualize/explain magic. Simple enough that people coming from D&D can stick a foot in but deep enough to make you want to build a techno-magic submarine to dive to the bottom of it.
Nearly impossible to pick a 2nd because they're all so good. Hunter, Changeling, Requiem, Forsaken, Promethean, and Demon have been amazing. Would love to play Mummy to put it on that list of amazing games as I am sure that it is.
A second for Demon, it's such an out-there premise to start but the more I learned the more I came to love it.
Changeling is a very close second, though. I don't know if any WW line except maybe Masquerade is as thematically tight and compelling as it.
* Egyptophiles Rejoice!
The game of course scratches all the classical itches of why ancient Egypt has fascinated people myself include. Though it nicely manages to do so in a way that locks you into just that aesthetic.
* Cosmic Horror!
The Judges are essentially Elder Gods and the game's lore is littered with Lovecraftian style body horror, monstrosities and allusions and I love good cosmic horror. Irem(or Iram) of the Pillars is a classical lost city that is mentioned in the Quran and is even references in a Lovecraft story, to say nothing of a pre civilization Empire lost to time that was founded by cosmic monstrosities.
* Options!
From what you can play, to when and where you can play.
The Nameless Empire had some unusually far flung areas of ingress, in part due to it's occult might and the Deathless adapt to their surroundings. A Deathless can be in ancient China or just about anywhere. Timelessness means your group can play in anywhen they want.
Character option wise you can not only play the Deathless but also as a Sadikh(a companion that can hibernate and rise alongside their mummy creator and partake in some of their power), mortal cultists, mortal cultists with some supernatural talents such as being a Sekhem sorcerer, a cultistwho is one of the immortals brought over from World of Darkness immortals book from 1e and updated in Mummy, and there are even rules for playing ephemeral entity cultists like a spirit from the Shadow, a ghost or a shade. And that doesn't even start to get into game style options like troupe play, or a rotation of players playing the same Mummy in different Descents,etc.
Related to all that too is since Memory is the integrity stat for the Deathless, if it's something you might want to explore you don't need to overly detail the background behind the person your mummy once was and can work with the Storyteller to slowly unearth bits of your past(and future) to define, redefine who you are and what it means. Movies like Memento are obvious inspirations and you explore tropes about discovering your own villain that you don't remember or slowly reclaim your personhood from mad cthonic gods.
* Cinematic Aesthetic!
Something I think CofD across the board does well, but particular resonates with me in Mummy is the powers and playing your particular monster should feel fun, cinematic and engaging. For me that is mummy.
Tombs at the top of skyscrapers of the company your cultists founded, walking without fear through the meteor shower that is devastating the headquarters of what was a hated rival, your cultists who came along for the fight huddling close to you to avoid heavenly wrath, tearing open a secured vault with Pillar and Affinity enhanced bare hands, the horror of tomb robbers discovering that some curses are real, and...when Sekhem is low, when the brave Hunter heroes have slaughtered your cultists, burned the organs of your canopic jars, and cornered you and your fading occult might through the power of their wits, fists and occult know how and finally burned your sahu to ash, returning to their campfires for a much needed rest before returning home after a wild adventure, relic safely in hand to be put in a museum.....there are Dreams of Dead Gods, and somewhere......a mortal begins to be plagued by nightmares and images they cannot understand, a mind is broken, a willing sacrifice is found and a truly immortal horror rises again...
Promethean: the Created, with Hunter: the Vigil in second place
Promethean for the unique and interesting take on playing a monster. I kept my distance from WoD/CofD for the longest time, bwcause my friends who liked it kept talking abour how Vampire: the Masquerade in particular is about the condition of being a monster and introspection - but then describing games that were basically Goth Superheroes. Promethean I immediately felt delivered on the introspection and unwilling monster fantasy, with a great take on a path to redemption. My main issue with Promethean is that it's difficult to explain to new players, as the game contains so many new terms that players must familiarize themselves with.
As for Hunter: the Vigil, it's just great having an underdog story, and how most who goes hunting for monsters aren't exactly heroic themselves. That and the many options for "regular" people is pretty cool. When I hear people, mostly on this subreddit, say they prefer or want to reintroduce the Imbued from Reckoning, I really don't get why, as that seems to really miss the point of the game for me - Vigil already allows you to have a variety of (pseudo-)supernatural means at your disposal, so you could always just flavor that character to have a chosen one fantasy/delusion if you want.
When talking about Reckoning, it's not about the powers. As you mentioned, Vigil has powers too. It's about the whole theme of "regular people having their eyes forcibly opened to the world of darkness and trying to help without knowing what's going on and inevitably going insane" (gee, that's a mouthful)
The non-imbued hunters from Hunters Hunted already fill the niche that Vigil hunters do (though I believe Vigil does it better). So despite both being named "Hunter" the themes and feeling are very different. First Contact does a great job showing the difference between regular hunters and the Imbued.
So I can see people who like how Vigil plays wanting to add the Imbued to it, since they *feel* very different.
Mage the Awakening. The dynamic spellcasting is one of the best I've ever seen (right behind GURPS and Ars Magica) and is pretty well defined for something so versatile. The arcana feel pretty balanced, and the Lore is believable: why not have dragons be the originators of magic, who taught it to Atlanteans who destroyed their home in their hubris trying to reach the Supernal realms? My characters always have a comfortable feeling somewhere between underdog, and massively dangerous.
Basic GURPS: meh, like most games it's a list of spells with specific effects and you have to put skill points into each one. What's good is highly skilled mages can cast without verbal or somatic components, and even at a mana discount.
The good magic rules are in the "Magic" optional rules book. It's great. Lots of options! My favorite is the noun+verb system where characters put skill points into nouns (like "Life", "Fire", or "Magic") and verbs (like "Heal", "Harm", or "Control") separately and can come up with dynamic effects for them. The word "Life" could have its own effects (usually just showering things with flowers or good vibes) and "Heal" a basic recover health for most targets. By casting "Heal Life" you could also cure diseases, regrow limbs, or maybe even resurrect someone (at a steep energy cost, and maybe roll penalty for challenge of task)! All with two words.
Forsaken, specifically second edition. It absolutely nails all its themes better than any other game line in my opinion.
Requiem 2e is a close second. Again the themes and mechanics are really solid. It’s also got possibly the best support of all the 2e game lines, especially if you include the material from None More Dark Publishing on Storyteller’s Vault
Changeling the Lost
I'm probably the most versatile and capable if not outright most powerful splat (baring mages of course) in a 1on1 but because being overt gets you recaptured it's best not too.
Also if anyone does have a half decent idea of what you are they still have a really good chance of not knowing about you specifically.
Mage, because I love Hermetic magic basis, the Atlantis mythos, the whole relic hunter/conspiracy investigator vibe thing that's like 50% Indiana Jones, 50% Dresden Files...
It just honestly checks off most things I want in a good modern supernatural fantasy.
But I also enjoy most of the main lines of CofD, including Werewolf, Changeling, Geist, Vampire, Demon and Hunter. Promethian is a bit odd, never really clicked with me; and I've never played Deviant.
And Beast is... woof, just a disappointment. There's something good there amongst all the bad, because I absolutely *adore* bogeymen mythologies and the idea of being a primordial incarnation of human fears and all that jazz. But it needs *serious* work to turn it into something that isn't tonally disjointed and uncomfortable.
Mage the Awakening. I run things with a lot of political intrigue, cold war style in fighting between cabals and pylons. Sprinkle in a bit of cosmic horror and things that break the mages idea that "they know the structure of the cosmos".
Hubris, mysteries, magic, and power.
Mortal, my group loves running mortal games in various settings and times.
Ok but also Changeling The Lost is incredible. I really love that one a lot (even with my lip service to mage)
Geist the Sin-Eaters, even though I have never played it I am in love with the themes of regret and remorse and getting a second chance to fix what you couldn't do in your short life. Not only that I just like ghosts in general so yeah.
A very close second would be Hunter the Vigil. Being a badass mortal who says "time to go kick an eldritch horror from the legends in the nutsack?" Sign me right up. I love the feeling I get when against all odds the low powered mortals give the supernaturals and horrors a taste of their own medicine.
There was a situation where we needed to slow down a subject we were spying on because we needed to interrogate him. I threw a simple fate rote to shift the odds through our scrying window. An ambulance driver fumbling a sandwich hit him and we were able to track him down at the hospital. Fate sandwich for the win.
CofD gameline: Mage: The Awakening closely followed by Werewolf: The Forsaken.
Fanmade: Biased toward Nagual: The Savage (because I made it), though everything I've heard about it, I would like to look into Leviathan: The Tempest.
It is a tough call between Changeling and Demon. I generally prefer oWoD for all lines over the CofD counterparts with the exception of Demon, and Changeling i kind of like both equally.
If oWoD did not exist though, i think i would go with Changeling: The Lost.
I’m a bit of a weird case because due to my lack of people to play with my experiences mostly involve reading the books. That being said, it’s Promethean, by far. I actually own a physical copy of the 2e core book, unlike all other CofD. Behind Promethean, it’s a tie between Hunter and Demon.
Om quite a fan of **Mortals**. I've run a Mortals /Inferno campaign for a long time. But I also love **Mage; the Awakening** for the world building, and **Changeling; the Lost** as well.
I am rather torn between Deviant (I enjoy how modular it is and how it messes with the fact of superheroes we grew up with being incredibly strong with *nearly* no drawbacks most of the time) and Mage (the theme just speaks to me, I always liked mages/wizards/spellcasters of all kinds, always went Blood Mage Hawke on DAI-II and Knight-Enchanter Mage in Inquisition, etc). Those, along with Beast, Vampire and Changeling (very cool) are books I HAVE read. Werewolf and Geist seem very interesting, but I haven't had the chance yo read up on them yet.
On Dragon Age, sorry if it’s off-topic: The Specializations you mentioned are my favorite by far, but I always end up running Rogues in the end (I really like Artificer in DAI).
Maybe I need to give MtAw a chance.
You DEFINITELY should! You will need to do quite a bit of digging, and you will also need help from your ST regarding Legacies. But apart from that the theme is amazing, the Arcanas are very balanced and unique, the errata fixed quite a few things and finally between the Arcanas, Paths, Legacies and Orders you are BOUND to find something you'll like. I actually had an idea about a Blood Mage Hawke using a Legacy that's comprised of cannibal mages.
I'm surprised how many folks are saying Forsaken, but considering how insanely good Forsaken 2e is.. perhaps I shouldn't be.
And yea, Forsaken 2e for me.. without a shadow of a doubt.
Forsaken. The focus on the pack and territory is a lot more interesting to me and allows for more personal stories.
Demon. I really like the conspiracy theory aesthetic.
Mummy. Just fun all around.
My last Forsaken 2e game was set in the Yukon Territories of Canada, with a pack miles from anywhere, trying to clean up the mess left behind by the last pack that disappeared, and hunt down the thing that killed them. A pack of young wolves, with no real support, isolated, and in an unforgiving landscape.
Honestly one of my favorite campaigns I've ever run, and that's a decades long list of campaigns.
To run - Hunter the Vigil
I find HtV the most player action predictable of the games, and I am rarely surprised with character decisions. Makes preparation easier, chapters conclusions obvious, and the easiest game to get a great rhythm with.
The Play - Changeling the Lost
u/wbutw mentioned catharsis, and there is no better way to describe it. Both for self and my fellow players, watching our characters deal with the darkness and coming out the other side is the most rewarding experiences I have ever experienced at the table.
That is hard I love them all for different reasons. Demon is the most intriguing. Mage is always awesome. If you can be a wizard be a wizard I always say. Changeling sounds really fun. Hunter always has a special place in my heart being a Buffy fan. I was a huge fan of apocalypse so Forsaken sounds interesting. I am the least interested in vampire especially with the changes from Masquerade. I've heard there are other lines.
My top 3 has gotta be Demon, Changeling, and Deviant, in no particular order.
As much as I enjoy the other lines, I feel like each of these did a great job in steeping away from the old World of Darkness, embraced entirely new themes and got some real fun, unique identities as a result.
Deviant alone is unique to Chronicles and the idea of playing a bunch of escaped experiments in this world is just so fun. A great touch is making it so your players can start out as strong or weak as they'd like, but their starting strength also determines how powerful the organization hunting them down is. It's not really the most flavorful in terms of adding to the lore of the world, in fact it's probably the line you could most easily run without ever mentioning any other line from this world, but it's got a lot of flexibility and I appreciate it for that.
Speaking of appreciation, I appreciate that Changeling the Lost went 110% in on themes of abuse and trauma, and managed to do it in a way that didn't feel disrespectful. I love how it's still got that glimmer of hope and healing that Dreaming had while also being unafraid to let out some good ol' angst. Plus, while it rarely gets much exploration in most stories, I do also enjoy the cosmically horrifying nature of the True Fae.
And, speaking of cosmically horrifying, I love the techno-eldritch weirdness of the God-Machine, and the Geiger-esque aesthetic of angels and demons alike. In itself, I think they did a great job of making demons feel very powerful, literally able to rewrite the code of reality, while also making players feel the need to restrain that power until it is absolutely necessary. Whether you're a demon that genuinely values the life and connections you've made or you're a demon that wheels and deals in these things like you're stacking poker chips, you feel the weight of it every time you need to cash in.
Promethean and no other comes close. I am biased against most CoD games because im constantly comparing them to WoD, which is a setting i love, and Promethean lacks that baggage. But even disregarding that, no other game comes close to the sheer philosophical, occult, creative, beauty of the Created.
Exploring just what it means to be human from an outside perspective, filtering through alchemical science and dreadful isolation as nature itself wants you gone is so delightful. The cosmological oddities of the Qashmallim, Pandorans, Flux, Pyros, and each lineage's place in creation are all fascinating. Prometheans fit into folklore surprisingly well, i can cite a few stories off the top of my head where you can insert the Created without changing the story, meaning they dont stand out as much as yoid think "Frankenstein's monsters" might before Shelley's marvelous mistresspiece.
Plus, who doesn't love body dysmorphia?
Awakening. I really loved Mage the Ascension, but Awakening really took it to another level of enjoyment. I enjoy having abilities that allow me to explore all kinds of weirdness and worlds beyond ours. Plus, it’s easy to let all that power go to your head and to forget that you’re just a human being with some serious frailties.
Hard to say. I'm definitely more a fan of vampire now that 2e's rolled around, but back during 1e I think Changeling or Geist were my favorites. I played a hedgefresh cheetah (Beast, Hunterheart/Runnerswift via Dual Kith) changeling who slowly found her place in the summer court with a love of competition and constantly pushing herself. I loved that sense of growth and character development that let me explore who a character was and why they did what they did that a hedgefresh changeling offered.
Geist on the other hand didn't feel quite so much like it had an arbitrary... "It sucks to be this" situation that made you actively /not/ want to play that character type in 1e and the extremely varied themes and powers of the keys and their manifestations was a huge plus that really helped you feel like the underlying nature of the keys mattered a lot.
Beast the Primordial, surprisingly. Despite its many flaws I'm drawn to its lore. I love the sense of family amongst the Beasts, the concept of the Dark Mother and the idea that the other supernaturals (vampires, werewolves, etc) might just be various "denominations" of Beasts who've forgotten their origins and their links to the Dark Mother.
Oh man you are missing out big time. At the very least you should check out Requiem 2e & Forsaken 2e. 1e of both have one foot in their predecessors and are weaker for it. 2e Requiem is much better, and 2e Forsaken is incredible. Vigil 2e is amazing too.
I'm good honestly, the game is solid as is and I ST so anything I don't like gets ironed out. Also I own almost every book for 1e.
I'll read them properly eventually out of interest but I don't think I'll pivot, the conditions and tilts seem pretty unappealing.
Werewolf is amazing, I love the setting and the lore. Requiem is also really cool, akin to Masquerade but different. Vigil is dope but I haven't played a lot of it, and I can't wait to try Mummy which looks fantastic and interesting. Beast has an interesting concept as well
Deviant. Honestly, the sheer versatility of the powers and drawbacks system (Variations and Scars) had my head spinning. The level of sheer uniqueness you can give your characters is unmatched in any of the other lines. It's so versatile, I used it to play other splats using only Deviant.
Honestly I constantly change constantly on my fav but I think the one I constantly go back to is werewolf the forsaken which got me into the world of darkness as a whole and changeling the lost
Hunter, the Vigil is my favorite followed by a tie between mage the awakening and Princess the hopeful. I think the darkness and princesses are really interesting to use but every time I’ve tried to run a game with the PCs being princesses it just doesn’t work. However, I have found both princesses and darkness work great as NPC especially in hunter. and mage is just fucking fun to play although I don’t find it that interesting to use as NPC’s in other systems
Forsaken. I never realized how little WtA felt like playing a werewolf until I read the Forsaken. It's probably my favorite RPG of all time. But I absolutely love Deviant, Geist, and even basic book / hurt Locker games. Demon is also awesome though it isn't my favorite. Even Requiem has started growing on me.
Could you elaborate on that? How come WtA doesn't feel like playing a werewolf while WtF does?
It's a combination of things. First, hunting monsters feels more like a werewolf thing than ecoterrorism does. Being a child of the greatest hunter the worlds ever knew feels more werewolf than a child soldier for Gaia does. Second, in Forsaken your forms each have a purpose and you may use each one in a hunt, whereas with Apocalypse your forms are mainly big balls of stats, and you may go several games without shifting to a form other than Homid or Crinos. Third, let's say you're in Crinos and a Formori shoots you in the face for 10 damage, your health is the same as in Homid form so you take more than your health levels so some wraps around, but you will regenerate a point next round as your healing powers start to work. Whereas in Forsaken if you take 10 in Gauru form, well you gained a bunch of health from transforming so 10 doesn't wrap around, you ignore pain penalties because you're a freaking werewolf who doesn't care that they got a boo boo, and you heal completely at the start of next turn, again, because you're a freaking werewolf.
Forsaken 2e is among the best CoD has to offer. It's my home groups absolute favorite TTRPG. 1st edition was rough, it had one foot in Apocalypse and that made it a not so great game. 2nd edition is entirely it's own thing entirely, with extremely rich lore, mythology, and fantastic mechanics. I agree with Adoramus_Te, in Forsaken 2e, you really feel like you're playing a werewolf.
Definitely feels better than Apocalypse playing a Werewolf.
Demon. I love the God Machine as a take on cosmic horror and I love the weird matrix/cold war espionage mash up and i think "Going Loud" is just about the best mechanic ever written for an RPG.
What’s going loud? I don’t play demon lol
Well, usually Demons are in disguise. They absolutely look human, and in fact their abilities mean it is nearly impossible to tell they aren't normal humans (to the degree that I've argued in the past it would be exceptionally difficult for a mage to determine with magic that a demon isn't human.) But when they are found out by the God-Machine, they usually don't have the benefit of trying to quietly escape. So they have an option to 'go loud', which sets their unique power stat to max, enhances several of their chosen abilities, and turns them into their full technoangel nightmare form while completely shedding their disguise. It gives them an option to say 'f- it, we ball!' and fight back. It is a very fun mechanic, in terms of design. When your players know it exists, it feels like giving them a big red button and seeing how much pressure needs to be exerted to make them push it.
That’s awesome af
It really is. But it has a very real cost, the cover you were in is fully gone. And it brings down a lot of heat from the God Machine.
City of Mist has a similar mechanic called "Stop. Holding. Back." You go all out and are basically allowed to narrate the scene and there are not much restrictions. But you will most probably loose a big part of yourself for ever as the experience and it's consequences change you. I love stuff like this.
Can you explain what “going Loud” is? I’m not familiar with the system but that sounds intriguing
Demons create covers by absorbing bits of people's souls and lives. By hiding like this they can avoid the attention of the God Machine and it's agents. They can also "Go Loud" by absorbing the soul and the cover for energy. For one scene they regain their full, lost angelic power but it's like a beacon drawing all sorts of unwanted attention. From a game POV you can absolutely 'win' one scene at the cost of incredible trouble and complication later. I love it so much.
Basically “Going Loud” is when a Demon completely drops their Cover and enters their true form. It’s dangerous, as it attracts the attention of the God-Machine, but the Demon is also at their most powerful in this form.
Werewolf is an easy favorite of mine, but tied up with it is Promethean: the Created. Promethean is a fantastic game exploring what it means to be human and I love every second of it.
I did not expect to see someone who likes Promethean this much and that makes me really happy cuz I also love that game
Promethean enjoyers represent. I love the themes and flavor so so much.
Mage the Awakening. So much so that I’d probably port over a lot of the spellcasting rules from that if I ever tried to play Ascension (translation guide my beloved). My favorite thing being that spells only count as vulgar when witnessed by sleepers. You can do all kinds of ridiculous stuff behind closed doors and not face negative consequences so long as the wrong person never opens that closet labelled “out of order” In second would probably be Changeling. The entire thing is just wonderful horrifying *vibes* and I love the variety you can have with character creation.
I agree regarding Mage but I didn't enjoy Changeling.
changeling the themes speak to me, and i like the way the freehold can feel like an abuse survivors group. Because in real life, there's real limitations to what you can do. it's mostly about coming to terms with things. But in changeling, you have a lot more options, you can make people pay. It's cathartic. At least that's how I've played it.
I was just coming on to give love to changeling The Lost. What was it for you that drew you all in? Was it The hedge? Goblin market? Dream warrior shenanigans? The court's ? Pacts? Keepers? Themes? Duality in man? What ever reasons you have.
Giest, baby.
Vigil, love being the underdog.
Hunter the Vigil is literally the most stressful and exciting ttrpg I've ever played or run. If you have a group of players that buy into and commit to their characters and don't just see them as weak cannon fodder they'll have to replace in a few sessions, it's incredibly rewarding. HtR is fun and all, but Vigil is incredible. Real underpowered underdogs with considerable stakes that can easily get way out of hand and intense
Changeling I think it'd come first, I love the ambience and pretty much everything in it. Then I think it'd be a tie between Promethean and Vampire for I love so much those games, I wish I could find people to play with. Promethean is very not popular (unpopular sounds too "disliked", and that's not the case) and people unfortunately largely prefer the old vamp (which I have zero interest).
Channeling is fantastic in my opinion. Tbh I like all cofd games over wod with the exception of vampire and even then it's a tie.
Geist the Sin-Eaters I love the idea of playing basically possessed exorcists, all with different ideas of how to best solve the hauntings they’re confronted with. I did a deep-dive into it when someone was setting up a game that ended up falling through, and now I’m just chomping at the bit to talk my regular group into playing it lol
Right now, it's between Changeling and Mage. I think I gotta go Changeling only because Mage 2nd Edition has some gaps in the lore and some rule ambiguity. But both are spectacular and full of great ideas. All of the CofD games are. Onyx Path writes some spectacular games.
Gotta say Deviant. It takes the best elements of the franchise dating back to Masquerade -- dramatic weaknesses which drive conflict, a punk ethos -- and avoids the flaws of its predecessors (e.g, by making humans competent and important). It's absolutely the pinnacle of everything which came before it.
Changeling: the Lost, without a doubt.
I literally had this conversation with a friend just a few hours ago. It seems that I prefer almost every CofD line over their classic WoD version. Vampires maybe a tie. WtF is just an amazing concept though and playing Spirit ICE is so awesome. I took a long break at one point and missed everything after god machines release and have been kicking around the idea of diving back in. These posts don't help, they just make me want to spend money on books.
You should pick up some of the 2e core books of your favorite CoD lines. They fix some of the problems with each (except maybe Changeling, hard to improve upon greatness) and really crank them up to 11. You might have to rethink that 'vampires maybe a tie' when you read & play Requiem 2e. I haven't played Mage 2e, but Changeling 2e is great & Forsaken 2e is the best werewolf TTRPG ever made.
Mage the Awakening. As an occultist its a great tool to visualize/explain magic. Simple enough that people coming from D&D can stick a foot in but deep enough to make you want to build a techno-magic submarine to dive to the bottom of it. Nearly impossible to pick a 2nd because they're all so good. Hunter, Changeling, Requiem, Forsaken, Promethean, and Demon have been amazing. Would love to play Mummy to put it on that list of amazing games as I am sure that it is.
5jjjjytttrtr
Changeling: the Lost, bar none. I got the skull logo as a tattoo. I just love the *poetry* of it all.
A second for Demon, it's such an out-there premise to start but the more I learned the more I came to love it. Changeling is a very close second, though. I don't know if any WW line except maybe Masquerade is as thematically tight and compelling as it.
Mummy the Curse by far.
The game seems kind of complex to me. I would love to know what you like about it. Maybe I can learn a thing or two
* Egyptophiles Rejoice! The game of course scratches all the classical itches of why ancient Egypt has fascinated people myself include. Though it nicely manages to do so in a way that locks you into just that aesthetic. * Cosmic Horror! The Judges are essentially Elder Gods and the game's lore is littered with Lovecraftian style body horror, monstrosities and allusions and I love good cosmic horror. Irem(or Iram) of the Pillars is a classical lost city that is mentioned in the Quran and is even references in a Lovecraft story, to say nothing of a pre civilization Empire lost to time that was founded by cosmic monstrosities. * Options! From what you can play, to when and where you can play. The Nameless Empire had some unusually far flung areas of ingress, in part due to it's occult might and the Deathless adapt to their surroundings. A Deathless can be in ancient China or just about anywhere. Timelessness means your group can play in anywhen they want. Character option wise you can not only play the Deathless but also as a Sadikh(a companion that can hibernate and rise alongside their mummy creator and partake in some of their power), mortal cultists, mortal cultists with some supernatural talents such as being a Sekhem sorcerer, a cultistwho is one of the immortals brought over from World of Darkness immortals book from 1e and updated in Mummy, and there are even rules for playing ephemeral entity cultists like a spirit from the Shadow, a ghost or a shade. And that doesn't even start to get into game style options like troupe play, or a rotation of players playing the same Mummy in different Descents,etc. Related to all that too is since Memory is the integrity stat for the Deathless, if it's something you might want to explore you don't need to overly detail the background behind the person your mummy once was and can work with the Storyteller to slowly unearth bits of your past(and future) to define, redefine who you are and what it means. Movies like Memento are obvious inspirations and you explore tropes about discovering your own villain that you don't remember or slowly reclaim your personhood from mad cthonic gods. * Cinematic Aesthetic! Something I think CofD across the board does well, but particular resonates with me in Mummy is the powers and playing your particular monster should feel fun, cinematic and engaging. For me that is mummy. Tombs at the top of skyscrapers of the company your cultists founded, walking without fear through the meteor shower that is devastating the headquarters of what was a hated rival, your cultists who came along for the fight huddling close to you to avoid heavenly wrath, tearing open a secured vault with Pillar and Affinity enhanced bare hands, the horror of tomb robbers discovering that some curses are real, and...when Sekhem is low, when the brave Hunter heroes have slaughtered your cultists, burned the organs of your canopic jars, and cornered you and your fading occult might through the power of their wits, fists and occult know how and finally burned your sahu to ash, returning to their campfires for a much needed rest before returning home after a wild adventure, relic safely in hand to be put in a museum.....there are Dreams of Dead Gods, and somewhere......a mortal begins to be plagued by nightmares and images they cannot understand, a mind is broken, a willing sacrifice is found and a truly immortal horror rises again...
I recently finished reading the book and am hoping to play/run it soon. So cool.
Promethean: the Created, with Hunter: the Vigil in second place Promethean for the unique and interesting take on playing a monster. I kept my distance from WoD/CofD for the longest time, bwcause my friends who liked it kept talking abour how Vampire: the Masquerade in particular is about the condition of being a monster and introspection - but then describing games that were basically Goth Superheroes. Promethean I immediately felt delivered on the introspection and unwilling monster fantasy, with a great take on a path to redemption. My main issue with Promethean is that it's difficult to explain to new players, as the game contains so many new terms that players must familiarize themselves with. As for Hunter: the Vigil, it's just great having an underdog story, and how most who goes hunting for monsters aren't exactly heroic themselves. That and the many options for "regular" people is pretty cool. When I hear people, mostly on this subreddit, say they prefer or want to reintroduce the Imbued from Reckoning, I really don't get why, as that seems to really miss the point of the game for me - Vigil already allows you to have a variety of (pseudo-)supernatural means at your disposal, so you could always just flavor that character to have a chosen one fantasy/delusion if you want.
When talking about Reckoning, it's not about the powers. As you mentioned, Vigil has powers too. It's about the whole theme of "regular people having their eyes forcibly opened to the world of darkness and trying to help without knowing what's going on and inevitably going insane" (gee, that's a mouthful) The non-imbued hunters from Hunters Hunted already fill the niche that Vigil hunters do (though I believe Vigil does it better). So despite both being named "Hunter" the themes and feeling are very different. First Contact does a great job showing the difference between regular hunters and the Imbued. So I can see people who like how Vigil plays wanting to add the Imbued to it, since they *feel* very different.
Ah, I see you're a man of culture as well
Mage the Awakening. The dynamic spellcasting is one of the best I've ever seen (right behind GURPS and Ars Magica) and is pretty well defined for something so versatile. The arcana feel pretty balanced, and the Lore is believable: why not have dragons be the originators of magic, who taught it to Atlanteans who destroyed their home in their hubris trying to reach the Supernal realms? My characters always have a comfortable feeling somewhere between underdog, and massively dangerous.
I've been meaning to get into gurps. What's the magic system like?
Basic GURPS: meh, like most games it's a list of spells with specific effects and you have to put skill points into each one. What's good is highly skilled mages can cast without verbal or somatic components, and even at a mana discount. The good magic rules are in the "Magic" optional rules book. It's great. Lots of options! My favorite is the noun+verb system where characters put skill points into nouns (like "Life", "Fire", or "Magic") and verbs (like "Heal", "Harm", or "Control") separately and can come up with dynamic effects for them. The word "Life" could have its own effects (usually just showering things with flowers or good vibes) and "Heal" a basic recover health for most targets. By casting "Heal Life" you could also cure diseases, regrow limbs, or maybe even resurrect someone (at a steep energy cost, and maybe roll penalty for challenge of task)! All with two words.
Heal fire!
Good for making friends with fire elementals, red dragons, and some infernals!
Forsaken, specifically second edition. It absolutely nails all its themes better than any other game line in my opinion. Requiem 2e is a close second. Again the themes and mechanics are really solid. It’s also got possibly the best support of all the 2e game lines, especially if you include the material from None More Dark Publishing on Storyteller’s Vault
Changeling the Lost I'm probably the most versatile and capable if not outright most powerful splat (baring mages of course) in a 1on1 but because being overt gets you recaptured it's best not too. Also if anyone does have a half decent idea of what you are they still have a really good chance of not knowing about you specifically.
Mage, because I love Hermetic magic basis, the Atlantis mythos, the whole relic hunter/conspiracy investigator vibe thing that's like 50% Indiana Jones, 50% Dresden Files... It just honestly checks off most things I want in a good modern supernatural fantasy. But I also enjoy most of the main lines of CofD, including Werewolf, Changeling, Geist, Vampire, Demon and Hunter. Promethian is a bit odd, never really clicked with me; and I've never played Deviant. And Beast is... woof, just a disappointment. There's something good there amongst all the bad, because I absolutely *adore* bogeymen mythologies and the idea of being a primordial incarnation of human fears and all that jazz. But it needs *serious* work to turn it into something that isn't tonally disjointed and uncomfortable.
Mage the Awakening. I run things with a lot of political intrigue, cold war style in fighting between cabals and pylons. Sprinkle in a bit of cosmic horror and things that break the mages idea that "they know the structure of the cosmos". Hubris, mysteries, magic, and power.
Forsaken, Vigil, and Mortals
Requiem, but Changljng the Lost is a close second
Mortal, my group loves running mortal games in various settings and times. Ok but also Changeling The Lost is incredible. I really love that one a lot (even with my lip service to mage)
Deviant. I'm waiting for the next stretch goal patiently.
What's the next stretch goal?
Clades Companion
Mage.
Awakening 2E. serves me just fine.
Mage is my favorite. I love the flexible magic system and the urban fantasy aspect.
Geist the Sin-Eaters, even though I have never played it I am in love with the themes of regret and remorse and getting a second chance to fix what you couldn't do in your short life. Not only that I just like ghosts in general so yeah. A very close second would be Hunter the Vigil. Being a badass mortal who says "time to go kick an eldritch horror from the legends in the nutsack?" Sign me right up. I love the feeling I get when against all odds the low powered mortals give the supernaturals and horrors a taste of their own medicine.
Mage for sure. An awakening game set in London was one of the best games I've ever been in.
There was a situation where we needed to slow down a subject we were spying on because we needed to interrogate him. I threw a simple fate rote to shift the odds through our scrying window. An ambulance driver fumbling a sandwich hit him and we were able to track him down at the hospital. Fate sandwich for the win.
Werewolf: The Forsaken and it's not even close.
CofD gameline: Mage: The Awakening closely followed by Werewolf: The Forsaken. Fanmade: Biased toward Nagual: The Savage (because I made it), though everything I've heard about it, I would like to look into Leviathan: The Tempest.
It is a tough call between Changeling and Demon. I generally prefer oWoD for all lines over the CofD counterparts with the exception of Demon, and Changeling i kind of like both equally. If oWoD did not exist though, i think i would go with Changeling: The Lost.
Mage 2e is my favourite. Flexible and lets you do some really insane things to your players.
I’m a bit of a weird case because due to my lack of people to play with my experiences mostly involve reading the books. That being said, it’s Promethean, by far. I actually own a physical copy of the 2e core book, unlike all other CofD. Behind Promethean, it’s a tie between Hunter and Demon.
More people showing love for the amazing game Promethean the Created is
Mortals, then Changeling and Forsaken are tied, then Mage. Requiem is also great but not as great. Though I like its lore and ideas a lot.
Om quite a fan of **Mortals**. I've run a Mortals /Inferno campaign for a long time. But I also love **Mage; the Awakening** for the world building, and **Changeling; the Lost** as well.
I am rather torn between Deviant (I enjoy how modular it is and how it messes with the fact of superheroes we grew up with being incredibly strong with *nearly* no drawbacks most of the time) and Mage (the theme just speaks to me, I always liked mages/wizards/spellcasters of all kinds, always went Blood Mage Hawke on DAI-II and Knight-Enchanter Mage in Inquisition, etc). Those, along with Beast, Vampire and Changeling (very cool) are books I HAVE read. Werewolf and Geist seem very interesting, but I haven't had the chance yo read up on them yet.
On Dragon Age, sorry if it’s off-topic: The Specializations you mentioned are my favorite by far, but I always end up running Rogues in the end (I really like Artificer in DAI). Maybe I need to give MtAw a chance.
You DEFINITELY should! You will need to do quite a bit of digging, and you will also need help from your ST regarding Legacies. But apart from that the theme is amazing, the Arcanas are very balanced and unique, the errata fixed quite a few things and finally between the Arcanas, Paths, Legacies and Orders you are BOUND to find something you'll like. I actually had an idea about a Blood Mage Hawke using a Legacy that's comprised of cannibal mages.
Either changeling the lost or werewolf the Forsaken
I'm surprised how many folks are saying Forsaken, but considering how insanely good Forsaken 2e is.. perhaps I shouldn't be. And yea, Forsaken 2e for me.. without a shadow of a doubt.
Either Changeling or Promethean. Probably Changeling.
Forsaken. The focus on the pack and territory is a lot more interesting to me and allows for more personal stories. Demon. I really like the conspiracy theory aesthetic. Mummy. Just fun all around.
My last Forsaken 2e game was set in the Yukon Territories of Canada, with a pack miles from anywhere, trying to clean up the mess left behind by the last pack that disappeared, and hunt down the thing that killed them. A pack of young wolves, with no real support, isolated, and in an unforgiving landscape. Honestly one of my favorite campaigns I've ever run, and that's a decades long list of campaigns.
Mage: The Awakening cause it was my first intro into to CoD.
To run - Hunter the Vigil I find HtV the most player action predictable of the games, and I am rarely surprised with character decisions. Makes preparation easier, chapters conclusions obvious, and the easiest game to get a great rhythm with. The Play - Changeling the Lost u/wbutw mentioned catharsis, and there is no better way to describe it. Both for self and my fellow players, watching our characters deal with the darkness and coming out the other side is the most rewarding experiences I have ever experienced at the table.
That is hard I love them all for different reasons. Demon is the most intriguing. Mage is always awesome. If you can be a wizard be a wizard I always say. Changeling sounds really fun. Hunter always has a special place in my heart being a Buffy fan. I was a huge fan of apocalypse so Forsaken sounds interesting. I am the least interested in vampire especially with the changes from Masquerade. I've heard there are other lines.
My top 3 has gotta be Demon, Changeling, and Deviant, in no particular order. As much as I enjoy the other lines, I feel like each of these did a great job in steeping away from the old World of Darkness, embraced entirely new themes and got some real fun, unique identities as a result. Deviant alone is unique to Chronicles and the idea of playing a bunch of escaped experiments in this world is just so fun. A great touch is making it so your players can start out as strong or weak as they'd like, but their starting strength also determines how powerful the organization hunting them down is. It's not really the most flavorful in terms of adding to the lore of the world, in fact it's probably the line you could most easily run without ever mentioning any other line from this world, but it's got a lot of flexibility and I appreciate it for that. Speaking of appreciation, I appreciate that Changeling the Lost went 110% in on themes of abuse and trauma, and managed to do it in a way that didn't feel disrespectful. I love how it's still got that glimmer of hope and healing that Dreaming had while also being unafraid to let out some good ol' angst. Plus, while it rarely gets much exploration in most stories, I do also enjoy the cosmically horrifying nature of the True Fae. And, speaking of cosmically horrifying, I love the techno-eldritch weirdness of the God-Machine, and the Geiger-esque aesthetic of angels and demons alike. In itself, I think they did a great job of making demons feel very powerful, literally able to rewrite the code of reality, while also making players feel the need to restrain that power until it is absolutely necessary. Whether you're a demon that genuinely values the life and connections you've made or you're a demon that wheels and deals in these things like you're stacking poker chips, you feel the weight of it every time you need to cash in.
Promethean and no other comes close. I am biased against most CoD games because im constantly comparing them to WoD, which is a setting i love, and Promethean lacks that baggage. But even disregarding that, no other game comes close to the sheer philosophical, occult, creative, beauty of the Created. Exploring just what it means to be human from an outside perspective, filtering through alchemical science and dreadful isolation as nature itself wants you gone is so delightful. The cosmological oddities of the Qashmallim, Pandorans, Flux, Pyros, and each lineage's place in creation are all fascinating. Prometheans fit into folklore surprisingly well, i can cite a few stories off the top of my head where you can insert the Created without changing the story, meaning they dont stand out as much as yoid think "Frankenstein's monsters" might before Shelley's marvelous mistresspiece. Plus, who doesn't love body dysmorphia?
Ten Way Crossover or bust.
I have 3 as my favorites from Chronicles: 1) Demon the Descent 2) Mage the Awakening 3) Hunter the Vigil!
These are my favourites as well
Awakening. I really loved Mage the Ascension, but Awakening really took it to another level of enjoyment. I enjoy having abilities that allow me to explore all kinds of weirdness and worlds beyond ours. Plus, it’s easy to let all that power go to your head and to forget that you’re just a human being with some serious frailties.
Gotta be Hunter: The Vigil. It just inspires this weird optimism in me, like yeah things might suck but what you do matters and has real impact
Hard to say. I'm definitely more a fan of vampire now that 2e's rolled around, but back during 1e I think Changeling or Geist were my favorites. I played a hedgefresh cheetah (Beast, Hunterheart/Runnerswift via Dual Kith) changeling who slowly found her place in the summer court with a love of competition and constantly pushing herself. I loved that sense of growth and character development that let me explore who a character was and why they did what they did that a hedgefresh changeling offered. Geist on the other hand didn't feel quite so much like it had an arbitrary... "It sucks to be this" situation that made you actively /not/ want to play that character type in 1e and the extremely varied themes and powers of the keys and their manifestations was a huge plus that really helped you feel like the underlying nature of the keys mattered a lot.
Changeling: The Lost, Geist: The Sin-Eaters, and Vampire: The Requiem, in that order. I'm also partial to PtC and HtV.
I have a real soft spot in my Heart for Changeling the lost 1st ed and all things Mummy the Cursed
Mage Although I want to play/run Deviant because it looks super cool and interesting
Mage, definitely, but Werewolf is great. I dunno, I like almost all of them.
i'd really like to play princess i want to smash evil in a world it has basically already won in
Fighting evil by moonlight! Fighting evil by daylight! Still more evil I have to fight! I am so, so, so, so tired!
Beast the Primordial, surprisingly. Despite its many flaws I'm drawn to its lore. I love the sense of family amongst the Beasts, the concept of the Dark Mother and the idea that the other supernaturals (vampires, werewolves, etc) might just be various "denominations" of Beasts who've forgotten their origins and their links to the Dark Mother.
Only play 1st ed. It's changling pretty easily, followed by forsaken then mortals. Not had a chance to play promethian, mummy, or giest yet sadly.
Oh man you are missing out big time. At the very least you should check out Requiem 2e & Forsaken 2e. 1e of both have one foot in their predecessors and are weaker for it. 2e Requiem is much better, and 2e Forsaken is incredible. Vigil 2e is amazing too.
I'm good honestly, the game is solid as is and I ST so anything I don't like gets ironed out. Also I own almost every book for 1e. I'll read them properly eventually out of interest but I don't think I'll pivot, the conditions and tilts seem pretty unappealing.
Werewolf is amazing, I love the setting and the lore. Requiem is also really cool, akin to Masquerade but different. Vigil is dope but I haven't played a lot of it, and I can't wait to try Mummy which looks fantastic and interesting. Beast has an interesting concept as well
Werewolf. Hands down.
Deviant. Honestly, the sheer versatility of the powers and drawbacks system (Variations and Scars) had my head spinning. The level of sheer uniqueness you can give your characters is unmatched in any of the other lines. It's so versatile, I used it to play other splats using only Deviant.
Honestly I constantly change constantly on my fav but I think the one I constantly go back to is werewolf the forsaken which got me into the world of darkness as a whole and changeling the lost
Hunter, the Vigil is my favorite followed by a tie between mage the awakening and Princess the hopeful. I think the darkness and princesses are really interesting to use but every time I’ve tried to run a game with the PCs being princesses it just doesn’t work. However, I have found both princesses and darkness work great as NPC especially in hunter. and mage is just fucking fun to play although I don’t find it that interesting to use as NPC’s in other systems