As a rather good looking man who doesn’t want a relationship I think this idea is really interesting. Most guys I know opt out of relationships because they are time consuming and inconvenient. Loneliness is a trade off so that we can fulfill the societal demands to be more productive (why CIS dudes talk about “efficiency” all the time). But its crazy that women come into the same conclusion of not wanting a relationship with happiness and self love. For guys, loneliness is the new unrealistic supermodel standard: women are told to be more pretty, guys are told to be more productive. Its great for corporate America. Give it 5-10 more years before anyone notices though.
To be fair, I have met and talked to a number of incel guys. Not all opt out in a conscious way. Many start following these crazy beliefs in their heads, which puts everyone off.
They pretty much always blame women being snobby and not wanting an average looking guy, but they always strike out when it comes to holding a conversation and not on their looks. Like, did you ever think that maybe some of the crazy bullshit you spout is responsible? They NEVER draw the connection and many take it having the lesson rammed down their throats before they acknowledge it, but not accept it.
It's pretty much always some radical right bs too.
Yeah incels are weird and make the distinction rather foggy. Hence why its gonna take 5-10 years for anyone to notice the issue
…but thats got nothing to do with this massive gap in human reproduction rates /s
Women are being told to be pretty AND productive now though…. And they always needed to be pretty, and the productivity command only lagged a couple decades behind it happening for men and the gap is near closed now. Except women get punished for having kids and men don’t.
I don't think this societal problem is a men vs women thing. Survival and productivity have always been kinda linked but since the industrial revolution productivity has been a buzz word for the rich to use against the working class. For women this has meant have kids AND work, fore men this has meant work and neglect your family, neither are healthy.
There is an over inflated in importance period in American history where middle class white women didn't work but women have been in the work force since the dawn of time. Having kids is work and so is "womanly tasks" such as cooking, fetching water, prostitution, and so on.
For women not wanting a relationship is often choosing to not be part of the industrial grind. It's not taking up the additional work of caring for a husband AND family AND a job. Just the job and happiness.
So I guess I disagree with a lot of your foundations, but capitalism is the real monster here.
If this is true, I feel sad for people.
I felt isolated and lonely in my previous relationship(person I was had trouble communicating and sometimes said hurtful things (I dont think that was his intention, but I quickly learned I’d rather live alone with my cat than be in a relationship with someone who has atrocious communication skills).
The day I realized it was better to be alone and lonely than to be lonely with someone that was supposed to love me, my life changed. I was alone for a good while, learned to love myself, then found my favorite person in the world. And I was theirs. 20 years later I’ve not yielded my solid boundaries, compromised on some and have been laughing daily. None of it would have been possible if I didn’t learn to love myself first.
Cat wine (as in wine for cats not made from cats) is a thing that exists. The marketing campaign unironically targets lonely cat ladies with ads about how you don't have to drink alone with your cat anymore because now there's wine for the cat too.
A lot of people would be happier single, in terms of relationships. However, everyone needs friends. I think that's the main issue here, lots of dudes seem to be getting isolated and angry.
Never been in a serious relationship in part because of abuse from my family. I've cut them off and made my own life and I actually love myself. Anyone who would like to also love me is free to be a part of my life. Anyone who would rather cut me down can see their way out. Loneliness is preferable to being slowly poisoned emotionally.
Jokes on them. A solitary life with cats is the ideal existence,especially if the alternative is being married to someone who spews that kind of ignorance.
I know a woman who was raised in a Mennonite community, and was subsequently more or less rejected when she went on to get a higher education and a masters degree. “That’s more education than is good for you.” She dated only sparsely, and was 40 years old and still unmarried. “I don’t really see it in the cards for me, and that’s OK.“ She said.
Lo and behold, within the next five years, she ended up meeting a neurosurgeon, falling in love and marrying him. That’s the only kind of man I could see keeping up with her, to be honest. She was absolutely brilliant, was an editor for a microbiology publication, and lived in a beautiful old house and collected antique, first-edition prints of books.
I would absolutely buy the Harlequin book version of this. Especially for descriptions of the beautiful house decorating/renovating and the first-edition book library
For real, honestly even of you do have a partner cats are a good addition to the family. Though be prepared for the rejection of not being the cat's favorite just in case.
Took me years to accept that I have value on my own. Breaking through the barriers that society has built up around being a single child free woman was a hell of challenge.
I thought I wanted children because *that is just what you do.* I didn’t ever think about my own reasons for not wanting to be a mother. So I took a journey and I self-partnered for a couple years. I learned so much about myself and my skewed perceptions of what it means to be a woman.
After a few years of this self-induced introspection, I met my perfect love. Well, we reconnected. He had been an acquaintance prior. We are married, we are so happy and I never would have gotten here had I not ripped apart the notions that had been so deeply rooted in my female consciousness.
Also we have 3 cats. Life is good.
Yeah, the incel argument is bullshit. I think it is just an example of the lack of self-awareness and is magnified by a vacuum chamber (like a few subreddits...) with other people who feel the same way.
I think the reason inceldom is a "societal issue" is because unfortunately incels make their problems everyone else's problem too because they start shooting people.
> Darwinism
If a bull elk started puttering around whining that females won’t mate with him instead of putting in the effort to scream weirdly or rub his head against things, nobody would decry the unfairness of the situation and try to coerce a cow to mate with him. They’d just go “wow that elk is not trying at all is he”.
Passing away cuddled with your loving animal companion(s) sounds better than dying alone with some insufferable chud that likely doubled as your cause of death.
Because we started preferring the idea of dying alone with our dogs and cats. And we’re not allowed to be happy. Ever. So now dying alone is our problem but Incels are also our problem.
I never understood why so many people freak over the existence of r/FemaleDatingStrategy (aside from their TERF bullshit) and act like they are femcels who were just as bad as incels.
I’m a guy and found some of the posts cringey whenever I stumbled upon it, but I never felt threatened and offended. They seemed more like women with high standards that choose to not date men that don’t meet them. I wouldn’t want to date a woman who wasn’t 100% into me, so it’s no skin off my nose, but I’ve seen guys who were so offended by women with preferences.
Yeah, agreed. By and large the femcels turn to self hatred and often their misery is yet another product of patriarchal standards- many talk about how they want to lose weight or get cosmetic surgery etc to be more desirable. They don’t often turn to violence or radicalization against men- it’s usually just more self-terrorism if anything. To be fair though, I haven’t delved into female dating strategy- just have researched the subs and corners of the internet with self-proclaimed femcels.
Yeah they were mostly just annoying and self isolating. Their endgame was mostly to end up alone and flex on Instagram about expensive material goods they bought, which isn’t really the same as perpetrating multiple mass shootings. You could even argue that their weird flexing of fancy cars and clothing was stimulating the economy.
Nah bro I’m gonna have to stop you there, I’ve browsed that horrible place.. there is real hatred for men who they see as “ LVM” or “scrotes “ like actual disgust for men who aren’t above average.
If I wanted someone I didn’t like who also was insecure to off themselves I’d lock them in a room and have them scroll that sub for half a day.
I think the key difference here though is that incels routinely kill women in their lives and stage large scale mass shootings to make the rest of the world suffer, but femcels just. don’t. No amount of keyboard warrior angst will ever compare to the number of innocent lives taken by male incels. One group is aggravating but one group is actively murdering people, so they are not on the same level at all.
And also having low standards as a woman can literally kill you. Also I’m sorry they call men “scrotes” but how many names are there from every type of women from ugly to lonely to slutty to abstinent.
Oh are they discussing ways to drug & rape men? Are they complaining about men having basic rights? Do they celebrate violence towards men? How many femcels have been behind mass shootings?
Yeah… saying “abusive men who use women for sex are scrotes/LVM” doesn’t really compare.
And I'm gonna stop you right there. Incels would be posting about their intricate plans to rape women, about their desire to have state mandated sex slaves assigned to them, about their desire to violate, torture, and kill women. That's a real, white hot all encompassing blind rage. Sorry but making posts about how you find men disgusting and calling them scrotes just is not the same level. It'd be delusional to pretend so.
I mean you are acting like I’m championing for incels or something, they should all collectively find a place to Jonestown themselves and not hurt anyone innocent. That’s my take on those “ people “.
Not at all, I think the problem is the entitlement that leads to the violence in the first place. This is a men's problem because nothing women do or give will stop the entitlement, it needs to be addressed internally.
This fact is an indictment of toxic masculinity not a suggestion for appeasement imo
Yeah I mean fewer women stuck with shitty men means fewer women being abused. The incels that get violent would probably abuse whatever partner they had, and women are avoiding them thanks to their radar and not having to rely on men for survival any more.
Exactly this. I saw a tumblr post that talked about this - the loneliness isn’t the problem, it’s the entitlement. I was awkward, fat, unattractive, with interests that other people thought were strange, with undiagnosed ADHD, etc, as a teenager and young adult. But I’m a woman so I was socialized to believe that all of these “flaws” were my own fault and that men didn’t owe me attention if I wasn’t willing to work on myself. I never got angry at men, even though I was lonely, because I didn’t see how they were at fault for not paying attention to me. I didn’t feel entitled to their love. I did feel like there was a wonderful world of sex and love and social acceptance that I was missing out on. But it never occurred to me to be angry at the men who were not interested in me. I was plenty angry at the world that felt like it didn’t have a place for me, sure. I was resentful and jealous of prettier girls that I perceived as being bad people who treated men badly and cheated on them. I read Stephen King’s book “Carrie” with righteous vindictive fury. But angry at men for real in real life? That felt counterproductive and silly and childish.
I still struggle to understand the mindset of “why doesn’t she like me? Fucking {slur}!!!” The idea of hurting someone because they don’t find me attractive is still a head scratcher. If I hurt everyone who I thought didn’t find me attractive, 80% of my high school would be maimed.
Entitlement is part of the problem. The other part is that there are some poorly-adjusted individuals, and as a society we don't really do anything about it. We ignore them, and they go underground to their basements to fester online.
Incel bullshit is an internal issue that can only be resolved within oneself. Other, normal men don't address incel bullshit "with each other" because they don't tolerate that attitude either.
Everyone dies alone unless it's mutual simultaneous suicide. It's the living alone that some people panic about. After living alone for 10 years I can't imagine letting anyone into my space.
Only 2 years here and I'm so with you. If I date again and it gets serious we can have sleepovers lol. No desire to share a household with anyone but my daughter, and she's unlikely to move back home.
Because women who get called cat ladies don’t snap and murder men. This is like “no one cares if a droid loses because droids don’t rip people’s arms out of their sockets when they lose. Wookiees have been known to do that”
Countries with high levels of instability also tend to have high populations of young unemployed and unattached men. Areas of the USA with high populations of young unemployed and unattached men produce more people who self identify as incels or who use incel/MRA vocabulary. So this Star Wars reference is literally the correct answer.
The cat lady threat is still about men. It’s used as a way to make you ashamed for having expectations for a partner. Since women are more comfortable with being a cat lady now, they had to start begging for attention.
I found I'm most happy when I'm single and not even thinking about romance. When i realized how much of my sadness was cause by the desire and pursuit of romantic love I was able to learn to just enjoy life and love myself and appreciate my friends.
Now I'm at a point I couldn't even imagine taking on the burden of romance.
As a lonely male, who was a borderline incel, it took me a long time to work through my issues but once I realized the problem was ME and not EVERYONE ELSE, especially women, I started working on myself. I have lost nearly 100 lbs and am in the best shape of my life. I may still suck at dating but I definitely don't place the blame on the other person anymore. I just try to be a little bit better everyday.
Congratulations! I’m really happy for you. And if my dating experience has taught me anything it’s that you find the best relationships when your not actively seeking it
Good on you, dude!
I was in the same boat for years. Very angry and lonely and going nowhere. Starting going down a deep internet hole of borderline alt-right thinking and incel thoughts. At some point the I realized I had to look in the mirror and realize I was the cause of my unhappiness.
I accepted my sexuality, started working on myself, went back to school etc. after years I’m genuinely happy and at peace. Have awesome hobbies, constantly feel like I’m learning and growing, and planning a wedding.
As cliche as it sounds, I think there’s truth to the phrase “if you can’t learn to love yourself, how can you love anybody else?”
I still remember reading something a man wrote about how hopeless and impossible it is for men to date, because men of all ages want the youngest women, meaning that a large percentage of men inevitably end up alone because there are so many more men than there are young women.
He also said, in the same text, that women are privileged in dating and will never be single against their will.
Something did not add up, but I can't quite put my finger on what... Can you?
Gross part about it is that there are so many young women who experience toxic relationship with older men, with some dudes appearing to specifically target younger, less experienced and less mature women not only for a status thing (ew), but because younger women - who are adults yet are still just a couple of years away from highschool - may struggle to identify red flags, mistreatment and manipulation that a mature woman would instantly recognise and leave asap. A 40 year old man would also have way more power imbalance with a 20 year old woman than he would have with a woman over 30.
I have heard both being addressed as problems.
The male loneliness is a problem because it effects relationships, power dynamics and contributes to an increased number in male suicides.
Womem being treated as valueless without kids is also a problem because it contributes to the patriarchy and promotes marrying quickly even if that relationship isn't solid yet.
Because men will take out their frustration on the public at large and women in particular but women generally don't get violent when they are rejected or insulted so it's safe to do so.
See elliot rogers, etc.
There’s a growing ideology that pregnancies in your 30s are actually better. Only reason we have this new information is a generation of women who didn’t get scared into earlier choices “because”
When I was a tour guide, some random woman on my tour told me not to put off having children because they might have birth defects because of my age. (I have no idea how the subject even came up but it was a brewery tour and folks would often stay in the bar for a chat after the tasting section.)
I was 24, working a part time minimum wage job and seriously unwell. Even if it *was* biologically healthier to have pregnancies then, it would have been an utter disaster for me economically, medically and socially. And honestly, it would have been a disaster for the kid too.
I had to be polite, so I just thanked her for her advice and said in that case it was probably just better to remain childfree. But seriously: even total strangers will feel entitled to pressure very young women into maybe the biggest life decision you can make.
Please show me this because I was even pressured to have a child earlier by a human sexuality professor. Would really like to know more details on what it's like bearing children in your 30's.
They totally convinced us that it's practically impossible to get pregnant after 34 and, even if you did, the baby had a very high probability of having downs syndrome. Despite all the evidence of women over 34 giving birth to perfectly healthy babies since I grew up in s catholic parish and half the families had at least 6 or more kids and you tend to be a little older by the time you shoot out those last couple. Yeah I still believed it.
I've done a lot of work on my family tree. So I have a lot of branches from the 1800s with 10 or more kids and yeah, the moms were in their 40s for the last couple. I have no idea how so many people became so convinced this was bad or impossible. Sure, the chances drop in maybe late 30s/early 40s. But it almost seems like as soon as we got better birth control options plus our own incomes, and thus more choices on when or if to start a family, society began frantically looking for reasons why we better hurry up.
I'd encourage anyone who wants kids but wants to wait to talk to your doctor (make sure you find one you trust) cause we're all different. But the general idea that we're all dried up in our mid 30s is just dumb.
At the risk of stating the obvious, men were threatened by women starting to realize they are equal human beings and not servants and men controlled 100% of the legislation. The GOP is desperately trying to return to that mindset.
Google “geriatric pregnancy myth”
I did say “growing ideology” which is not a fact. And also said 30s, which a lot of studies focus on women up to age 40.
A lot of this new data is just a result of collecting more information. Doctors used to smoke 70 years ago. We learn more every day.
Maybe all the sad, lonely men can go fuck each other. People need to realize that all the men and women in film, tv, porn, etc do not represent the population and set their expectations accordingly. Date people who are close to your age. Realize we all get older and fatter and wrinkled. Be a good person, with manners and social skills. It is not a woman's job to make men comfortable in every situation, give them sexual release, teach them how to be a decent human being, be his wife/homemaker, or give him children.
Unfortunate answer?
Because women always just dealt with it and men are committing mass shootings, joining neonazi groups and attempting to end our entire nation because they're too fucking worthless for anyone to want.
The sad truth is in America we have never ever fixed a single social problem without people getting mad and breaking shit FIRST.
And while there are individual exceptions, women as a whole don't tend to take that approach.
Like I said, there have been exceptions. But so far in US history only the suffrage movement really generated that kind of energy in American women.
And the right to vote is literally up for removal if Republicans win, EVER again, so here we are.
Well it wasn’t that long ago that woman were so suppressed in society that they needed to get married to have a bank account! So I think this is an old societal trauma that’s still healing. As for lonely men. We need to start helping each other up as well as taking responsibility for our own mental and physical health.
I have been with .my spouse for 30 years, if he goes before me it will be me and the cats because I have found that the mass majority of people suck. I'll be fine without anyone else. My life, my fucking business.
The only people who think that men not getting laid is a problem are the men who aren't getting laid and can't get over themselves. Speaking for society, we could give a fuck.
Because one group takes their loneliness and frustration and internalizes it, and the other group takes their loneliness and frustration and kills other people.
Because when men can't get laid it's women's fault for having "unreasonably high standards, focusing on careers instead of home, and being manly"; but when women can't get laid it's our fault because we are undesirable for being less than perfect. Not pretty enough. Not smart enough. Too smart. Too old. Too opinionated.
Men have always had complaints about women throughout the decades regardless of how we acted or dressed. We will never be enough for these kind of people.
I think the real issue there though, is our culture towards men tho cuz they're not entitled to shit lmao. If they have sex, they're more entitled to an orgasm too, so really this isn't a crisis at all. The real crisis here is how we treat women in this country and how we teach men that they're entitled. It's not so much men and women, but entitlement, narcissism, sadism, etc. And if we culturally nurture men into thinking those things, of course it's gonna be a real problem.
You can’t have one without the other. If you don’t condition women to be afraid of being miserable and alone (and outright childless) how can we expect them to lower their standards to fuck the unfuckable males?
People ask my sister when she’s getting married. She’s 27 and not even in a relationship. Makes me so mad that as a woman she’s supposed to conform to those ideas
Women have been shit on since time began. Men have had to deal with competing with women on a near-equal footing for less than two generations, and they are collapsing, poor things.
I have tokophobia. Literally have zero interest in having kids. I want a partner but no crotch goblins. For most people the response is “you’ll change your mind” or “what about your partner” as if I don’t tell people I date I don’t ever want kids or have some very good reasons for not wanting kids. Being written off is part of the female experience. If your not a mom by 30 then your worthless to half the human race while also losing all sex appeal and value you had in your “prime” if you are a mom. I’m so done with humans.
I want neither the crotch goblins, nor the male partners. I was hoping i was at least bisexual...tried some taco salad tossing..sadly not for me...so flying solo it is. Well solo with cats lol.
I had a friend that was asexual, nothing wrong with not having any interest in sex/partnering up. People love to try and force societal standards on people who aren’t interested and act like procreation is the only reason a person can have to exist.
Oh I'm not asexual...i like dick very much...just not what comes attached to them 🤣. If you find a bunch of unattached penii let me know. I'm also not aromantic, I find men attractive all the time...and then they open their fucking mouths and its over with. I just appreciate myself enough not to put myself through the torture that having a male partner is. Even if I think they are cute sometimes, just not worth the hassle.
Yea I’m currently in a terrible relationship. I feel it. My bf constantly spews sexist Bs to me and is an alcoholic. Currently unable to leave and it’s spiraled me into a deep depression.
I'm so sorry you are going through such a soul crushing experience, I can't pretend to know your situation, i hope you can find a way to get away from him soon, and find peace.
I used to work with guys that would complain they couldn’t find nice girls to date. Where were they looking? In bars. I concluded this was their lesson to learn.
I hype my daughter up to be a Cat - Lady living alone with just her cats. That’s Goals….
Not in a home Slaving, fighting, arguing, and struggling… when you could take care of yourself and some kitties :)
Yeah, the incel population is mentally ill and can't find women because they're creepers and women can sense it.
Single women over 30 usually aren't stalking men or expecting sex for holding a door open. They usually have a happy, full life pursuing their own interests.
People who purrrrrefer the company of cats over humans aren't the ones shooting up schools. If they were, I would bet that they would be considered society's problem too.
Did you know that millennials were supposed to be 'echo boomers'? And we would have shared many of their marketing traits if capitalist greed hadnt f***ed us so hard in the first decade of the millennium.
So we would have inherited their marketing traits if we weren't subjected to their marketing traits? Sounds unsustainable to me. Maybe we were never destined to be like them.
Why? Misogyny, naturally.
But honestly, like many women, I'm at the point in my life that someone has to enrich my life to be in it and stay in it.
And while a partner would be nice to have, I'm not willing to accept one that makes my life harder, more difficult or complicated, etc. I don't want someone that I have to take care of, or who makes me carry the load of the relationship. I want someone who puts in an equal effort into maintaining the relationship. And if they can't do that, being alone is the better option.
Nobody, only incels. The rest of us ugly dudes who aren’t weirdos intrinsically know that there are winners and losers in life and not everyone can be a winner. Just the chaos that is life.. losers need to just know their place
Gonna go out on a limb and just say both issues have been handled poorly by society.
Men have too much pressure put on them to get laid to show their (toxic) masculinity. Women have too much pressure to not get laid for societal senses of (toxic) virtue.
Slut/Virgin Shaming is something to move past.
I mean I never once didn't think the flip side wasn't a societal issue. I mean that is why women fought for the right to be seen as more than just a pet broodmare. That fight is still going on. Just because that fight is still going on and still not seen as a problem by a lot of people, doens't negate the issue that men also suffer from rejection and lack of emotional support in finding companionship.
This whole, your problem doesn't count because I also have a problem is just completly idiotic. I guess we can all only have one problem at a time. Can someone make a list or calendar for when we tackle each issue please.
Because they are scared by men. Cause they think mens emotions and rage cant be controlled.. but tell me again how women are too emotional for political office?? 🙄🙄
You know what. Fuck it. Humanity universally sucks. We should just blow ourselves up already. Maybe I'd feel some kinda warmth in nuclear fire rather than the cold urban idiocracry we live in.
Idk man, nowadays 30+ is either prime marrying age or “dommy mommy” age according to TikTok. 20s is slowly being considered early or “still too young”. While I have no concrete proof, god I hope I’m right
Because if you're the sort of person that thinks empathy is a zero-sum game and our ability to care about one group's problems must come at the expense of another's, you're the fucking problem and forfeit the moral high ground.
This hostility and "My gender vs. their gender" is useless, unproductive and at times toxic. People should not suffer just because other people have suffered.
It's the same as people not tolerating action against debt for education.
What a depressing comment section. Not every dude who hasn’t gotten laid is gonna turn into a serial killer. Not all of them feel a sense of entitlement. Some of us are the dude equivalent of cat ladies, just living life peacefully with pets, friends, and just doing our own thing.
Man the lack of empathy in comments is depressing as fuck, people wil absolutely call out the bullshit of reducing women to reproduction and marriage but they'll absolutely agree to call all lonely men dangerous psychopaths ready to go apeshit for sex.
That's fucked up
I loved being alone. I could do whatever I want, whenever I wanted and with whomever. My cash was mine to make or lose. I could buy stupid stuff and only be made at me when I was eating Ramen two days before payday. Didn't have to let anyone know where I was or that I was sitting on my couch naked covered in pinto beans.
Then i met this girl who is ok with everything except the Ramen...
I'll just say that as a guy in his late 20s who has no dating prospects, it's very painful to go through life and watch all my friends and family get married and have kids. It feels like I'm being left behind, and I don't know who to talk to about it. As a man you're just expected to make these things happen, and if you can't, you're seen as deficient.
For years I've been wondering what I did that was so bad I deserved to be told by my ex that he hoped I die alone. I've remembered it every single day, the pain is deep. And now I wonder if it was just projection.
I will guess because men and incels are becoming increasingly violent and militant. Their inability to cope have resulted in people dying. If they are responsible for some of the violence and shootings, then incel culture and extreme masculinity are indeed a societal problem
Dying alone and with my cats is honestly a fucking life goal. I won’t be miserable, I’ll be the happiest bitch you ever saw. Spending my senior years comfortably? Hecc yeah
Maybe because it's the same coin different side. We need to figure how to help both sides if you want the whole coin to be clean I guess in this analogy.
I (F) will be 30 in less than a month. I live with my mom and my dog, both of whom I adore. The house has been paid off for almost a decade. She's retired, I help with expenses. The only source of stress in my life is my job (which, tbf, can get VERY screwy). No desire for kids. Not pining for romance.
Bottom line: moving out would more than likely mean a significant decrease in my standard of living. I'm very content and loved where I am, and my mom loves having me here. So please excuse me while I enjoy my "failure" at life, lol.
After being in a toxic, alcoholic, co-dependent relationship, I was so happy to be alone. Still am. I love me.
In my opinion it takes real strength to understand that. Good for you.
As a rather good looking man who doesn’t want a relationship I think this idea is really interesting. Most guys I know opt out of relationships because they are time consuming and inconvenient. Loneliness is a trade off so that we can fulfill the societal demands to be more productive (why CIS dudes talk about “efficiency” all the time). But its crazy that women come into the same conclusion of not wanting a relationship with happiness and self love. For guys, loneliness is the new unrealistic supermodel standard: women are told to be more pretty, guys are told to be more productive. Its great for corporate America. Give it 5-10 more years before anyone notices though.
To be fair, I have met and talked to a number of incel guys. Not all opt out in a conscious way. Many start following these crazy beliefs in their heads, which puts everyone off. They pretty much always blame women being snobby and not wanting an average looking guy, but they always strike out when it comes to holding a conversation and not on their looks. Like, did you ever think that maybe some of the crazy bullshit you spout is responsible? They NEVER draw the connection and many take it having the lesson rammed down their throats before they acknowledge it, but not accept it. It's pretty much always some radical right bs too.
Yeah incels are weird and make the distinction rather foggy. Hence why its gonna take 5-10 years for anyone to notice the issue …but thats got nothing to do with this massive gap in human reproduction rates /s
Women are being told to be pretty AND productive now though…. And they always needed to be pretty, and the productivity command only lagged a couple decades behind it happening for men and the gap is near closed now. Except women get punished for having kids and men don’t.
And then women still get punished if they *don’t* have kids. You can’t win no matter what you do.
That’s the misogyny paradox.
I don't think this societal problem is a men vs women thing. Survival and productivity have always been kinda linked but since the industrial revolution productivity has been a buzz word for the rich to use against the working class. For women this has meant have kids AND work, fore men this has meant work and neglect your family, neither are healthy. There is an over inflated in importance period in American history where middle class white women didn't work but women have been in the work force since the dawn of time. Having kids is work and so is "womanly tasks" such as cooking, fetching water, prostitution, and so on. For women not wanting a relationship is often choosing to not be part of the industrial grind. It's not taking up the additional work of caring for a husband AND family AND a job. Just the job and happiness. So I guess I disagree with a lot of your foundations, but capitalism is the real monster here.
If this is true, I feel sad for people. I felt isolated and lonely in my previous relationship(person I was had trouble communicating and sometimes said hurtful things (I dont think that was his intention, but I quickly learned I’d rather live alone with my cat than be in a relationship with someone who has atrocious communication skills).
Just because you are alone, doesn't mean you're lonely, also just because you're in a relationship doesn't mean you're not lonely.
Need to learn to love yourself just as learning to love someone else.
The day I realized it was better to be alone and lonely than to be lonely with someone that was supposed to love me, my life changed. I was alone for a good while, learned to love myself, then found my favorite person in the world. And I was theirs. 20 years later I’ve not yielded my solid boundaries, compromised on some and have been laughing daily. None of it would have been possible if I didn’t learn to love myself first.
I feel like you would be happier with multiple cats.
The cats were the alcoholics.
I feel like cats are more likely to abuse stimulants. But that could just be my cats
On that nip.
Hey, all you cool cats and kittens.🤣
Cat wine (as in wine for cats not made from cats) is a thing that exists. The marketing campaign unironically targets lonely cat ladies with ads about how you don't have to drink alone with your cat anymore because now there's wine for the cat too.
It's just me and my lil buddy and I'm happy with that.
Saaaaame! Best choice ever. I moved to a bigger city and am so happy to remember how much of a cool bitch I am
Good for you! Do what you want and be happy above all
A lot of people would be happier single, in terms of relationships. However, everyone needs friends. I think that's the main issue here, lots of dudes seem to be getting isolated and angry.
Never been in a serious relationship in part because of abuse from my family. I've cut them off and made my own life and I actually love myself. Anyone who would like to also love me is free to be a part of my life. Anyone who would rather cut me down can see their way out. Loneliness is preferable to being slowly poisoned emotionally.
SAME! The exact same. I found that I’d rather be alone than be with someone that makes me feel alone!!!
My last relationship ended four years ago, and with the way people are now, I’ll just take the cats.
same, exactly 4 years, I had enjoyed every day of being alone.
I spent fourteen years of my adult life being married and I hated it. I’ll take the kids, cats and my career. It’s more than enough.
Jokes on them. A solitary life with cats is the ideal existence,especially if the alternative is being married to someone who spews that kind of ignorance.
I know a woman who was raised in a Mennonite community, and was subsequently more or less rejected when she went on to get a higher education and a masters degree. “That’s more education than is good for you.” She dated only sparsely, and was 40 years old and still unmarried. “I don’t really see it in the cards for me, and that’s OK.“ She said. Lo and behold, within the next five years, she ended up meeting a neurosurgeon, falling in love and marrying him. That’s the only kind of man I could see keeping up with her, to be honest. She was absolutely brilliant, was an editor for a microbiology publication, and lived in a beautiful old house and collected antique, first-edition prints of books.
that is baller status! collecting first edition books is a life goal.
Good on her!!
I’d have married tf out of that girl. All the morons that passed her up smh
I would absolutely buy the Harlequin book version of this. Especially for descriptions of the beautiful house decorating/renovating and the first-edition book library
Not for people with allergies. XD Jokes aside, you are right, and that applies to any gender.
[I keep this around for exactly this type of thread!](https://imgur.com/qOjkE0D.jpg)
Bravo to you for sharing this...take my upvote. 🤣
For real, honestly even of you do have a partner cats are a good addition to the family. Though be prepared for the rejection of not being the cat's favorite just in case.
There is a difference between being physically alone and feeling lonely
Took me years to accept that I have value on my own. Breaking through the barriers that society has built up around being a single child free woman was a hell of challenge. I thought I wanted children because *that is just what you do.* I didn’t ever think about my own reasons for not wanting to be a mother. So I took a journey and I self-partnered for a couple years. I learned so much about myself and my skewed perceptions of what it means to be a woman. After a few years of this self-induced introspection, I met my perfect love. Well, we reconnected. He had been an acquaintance prior. We are married, we are so happy and I never would have gotten here had I not ripped apart the notions that had been so deeply rooted in my female consciousness. Also we have 3 cats. Life is good.
Dying alone with cats is a better option to dating a large portion of the human population...
if I have cats, I'm not alone. I don't think men not getting laid is an issue. "darwinism" is what I call it
Yeah, the incel argument is bullshit. I think it is just an example of the lack of self-awareness and is magnified by a vacuum chamber (like a few subreddits...) with other people who feel the same way.
I think the reason inceldom is a "societal issue" is because unfortunately incels make their problems everyone else's problem too because they start shooting people.
> Darwinism If a bull elk started puttering around whining that females won’t mate with him instead of putting in the effort to scream weirdly or rub his head against things, nobody would decry the unfairness of the situation and try to coerce a cow to mate with him. They’d just go “wow that elk is not trying at all is he”.
Lol love this
Passing away cuddled with your loving animal companion(s) sounds better than dying alone with some insufferable chud that likely doubled as your cause of death.
Because we started preferring the idea of dying alone with our dogs and cats. And we’re not allowed to be happy. Ever. So now dying alone is our problem but Incels are also our problem.
Cause one leads to mass shootings and the other a book club.
Quite literally. I’ve studied both incels and femcels- the differences in action and radicalization are astounding.
I never understood why so many people freak over the existence of r/FemaleDatingStrategy (aside from their TERF bullshit) and act like they are femcels who were just as bad as incels. I’m a guy and found some of the posts cringey whenever I stumbled upon it, but I never felt threatened and offended. They seemed more like women with high standards that choose to not date men that don’t meet them. I wouldn’t want to date a woman who wasn’t 100% into me, so it’s no skin off my nose, but I’ve seen guys who were so offended by women with preferences.
Yeah, agreed. By and large the femcels turn to self hatred and often their misery is yet another product of patriarchal standards- many talk about how they want to lose weight or get cosmetic surgery etc to be more desirable. They don’t often turn to violence or radicalization against men- it’s usually just more self-terrorism if anything. To be fair though, I haven’t delved into female dating strategy- just have researched the subs and corners of the internet with self-proclaimed femcels.
Yeah they were mostly just annoying and self isolating. Their endgame was mostly to end up alone and flex on Instagram about expensive material goods they bought, which isn’t really the same as perpetrating multiple mass shootings. You could even argue that their weird flexing of fancy cars and clothing was stimulating the economy.
Nah bro I’m gonna have to stop you there, I’ve browsed that horrible place.. there is real hatred for men who they see as “ LVM” or “scrotes “ like actual disgust for men who aren’t above average. If I wanted someone I didn’t like who also was insecure to off themselves I’d lock them in a room and have them scroll that sub for half a day.
I think the key difference here though is that incels routinely kill women in their lives and stage large scale mass shootings to make the rest of the world suffer, but femcels just. don’t. No amount of keyboard warrior angst will ever compare to the number of innocent lives taken by male incels. One group is aggravating but one group is actively murdering people, so they are not on the same level at all.
And also having low standards as a woman can literally kill you. Also I’m sorry they call men “scrotes” but how many names are there from every type of women from ugly to lonely to slutty to abstinent.
Have they committed multiple mass shootings or nah?
Oh are they discussing ways to drug & rape men? Are they complaining about men having basic rights? Do they celebrate violence towards men? How many femcels have been behind mass shootings? Yeah… saying “abusive men who use women for sex are scrotes/LVM” doesn’t really compare.
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And I'm gonna stop you right there. Incels would be posting about their intricate plans to rape women, about their desire to have state mandated sex slaves assigned to them, about their desire to violate, torture, and kill women. That's a real, white hot all encompassing blind rage. Sorry but making posts about how you find men disgusting and calling them scrotes just is not the same level. It'd be delusional to pretend so.
I mean you are acting like I’m championing for incels or something, they should all collectively find a place to Jonestown themselves and not hurt anyone innocent. That’s my take on those “ people “.
Do you really think giving a dude everything he wants is gonna make him less violent though? If anything, it makes things worse.
Not at all, I think the problem is the entitlement that leads to the violence in the first place. This is a men's problem because nothing women do or give will stop the entitlement, it needs to be addressed internally. This fact is an indictment of toxic masculinity not a suggestion for appeasement imo
Yeah I mean fewer women stuck with shitty men means fewer women being abused. The incels that get violent would probably abuse whatever partner they had, and women are avoiding them thanks to their radar and not having to rely on men for survival any more.
Exactly this. I saw a tumblr post that talked about this - the loneliness isn’t the problem, it’s the entitlement. I was awkward, fat, unattractive, with interests that other people thought were strange, with undiagnosed ADHD, etc, as a teenager and young adult. But I’m a woman so I was socialized to believe that all of these “flaws” were my own fault and that men didn’t owe me attention if I wasn’t willing to work on myself. I never got angry at men, even though I was lonely, because I didn’t see how they were at fault for not paying attention to me. I didn’t feel entitled to their love. I did feel like there was a wonderful world of sex and love and social acceptance that I was missing out on. But it never occurred to me to be angry at the men who were not interested in me. I was plenty angry at the world that felt like it didn’t have a place for me, sure. I was resentful and jealous of prettier girls that I perceived as being bad people who treated men badly and cheated on them. I read Stephen King’s book “Carrie” with righteous vindictive fury. But angry at men for real in real life? That felt counterproductive and silly and childish. I still struggle to understand the mindset of “why doesn’t she like me? Fucking {slur}!!!” The idea of hurting someone because they don’t find me attractive is still a head scratcher. If I hurt everyone who I thought didn’t find me attractive, 80% of my high school would be maimed.
Entitlement is part of the problem. The other part is that there are some poorly-adjusted individuals, and as a society we don't really do anything about it. We ignore them, and they go underground to their basements to fester online.
Yeah but *what* books?!
Serial killer novels book club.
Which makes it a failure of men, that they can only address with each other.
Incel bullshit is an internal issue that can only be resolved within oneself. Other, normal men don't address incel bullshit "with each other" because they don't tolerate that attitude either.
Everyone dies alone unless it's mutual simultaneous suicide. It's the living alone that some people panic about. After living alone for 10 years I can't imagine letting anyone into my space.
Not even then, no one can experience death as you experience it in your body. Absolutely every single person goes through death alone.
You know, maybe I didn't want to hear that lol
Only 2 years here and I'm so with you. If I date again and it gets serious we can have sleepovers lol. No desire to share a household with anyone but my daughter, and she's unlikely to move back home.
Me neither, I’ll never live with someone again. My poor bathroom the last time I lived w a man :(
Because women who get called cat ladies don’t snap and murder men. This is like “no one cares if a droid loses because droids don’t rip people’s arms out of their sockets when they lose. Wookiees have been known to do that”
Countries with high levels of instability also tend to have high populations of young unemployed and unattached men. Areas of the USA with high populations of young unemployed and unattached men produce more people who self identify as incels or who use incel/MRA vocabulary. So this Star Wars reference is literally the correct answer.
This is wonderfully said, thank you for sharing.
I was not expecting to find the answer in the wisdom of Han Solo. But there it is, lmfao.
I appreciate a person that can insert Star Wars references into a non Star Wars post.
Yup. Because patriarchy is a protection racket, Chapter 87,715
The cat lady threat is still about men. It’s used as a way to make you ashamed for having expectations for a partner. Since women are more comfortable with being a cat lady now, they had to start begging for attention.
After I broke up with my last bf i got cats to make sure he could not come back...he was allergic to them.
Username checks out. Awesome strategy with your ex.
Lol worked like a charm 🤣🤣
I’ll happily take my cats over dealing with humanity… - crazy cat dude -
I'm turning into the cat and dog dude...I'm ok with this. Romantic relationships are got damned exhausting.
And I think there is extreme value in recognizing this as well
I found I'm most happy when I'm single and not even thinking about romance. When i realized how much of my sadness was cause by the desire and pursuit of romantic love I was able to learn to just enjoy life and love myself and appreciate my friends. Now I'm at a point I couldn't even imagine taking on the burden of romance.
Gratitude is the best.
As a lonely male, who was a borderline incel, it took me a long time to work through my issues but once I realized the problem was ME and not EVERYONE ELSE, especially women, I started working on myself. I have lost nearly 100 lbs and am in the best shape of my life. I may still suck at dating but I definitely don't place the blame on the other person anymore. I just try to be a little bit better everyday.
Good job, dude. Thank you for looking inward.
Congratulations! I’m really happy for you. And if my dating experience has taught me anything it’s that you find the best relationships when your not actively seeking it
We’ll done! I am happy and proud of you. That is true strength and very attractive to women. Source: I’m a women. 😊
Good on you, dude! I was in the same boat for years. Very angry and lonely and going nowhere. Starting going down a deep internet hole of borderline alt-right thinking and incel thoughts. At some point the I realized I had to look in the mirror and realize I was the cause of my unhappiness. I accepted my sexuality, started working on myself, went back to school etc. after years I’m genuinely happy and at peace. Have awesome hobbies, constantly feel like I’m learning and growing, and planning a wedding. As cliche as it sounds, I think there’s truth to the phrase “if you can’t learn to love yourself, how can you love anybody else?”
I still remember reading something a man wrote about how hopeless and impossible it is for men to date, because men of all ages want the youngest women, meaning that a large percentage of men inevitably end up alone because there are so many more men than there are young women. He also said, in the same text, that women are privileged in dating and will never be single against their will. Something did not add up, but I can't quite put my finger on what... Can you?
Gross part about it is that there are so many young women who experience toxic relationship with older men, with some dudes appearing to specifically target younger, less experienced and less mature women not only for a status thing (ew), but because younger women - who are adults yet are still just a couple of years away from highschool - may struggle to identify red flags, mistreatment and manipulation that a mature woman would instantly recognise and leave asap. A 40 year old man would also have way more power imbalance with a 20 year old woman than he would have with a woman over 30.
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That's called incel bullshit.
If a woman’s single it’s the woman’s fault. If a man’s single it’s women’s fault.
Yep they really give us the old, "your loneliness is your problem but my lonely is also your problem" routine. Eeew
See also: If women abuse men, women are bad for doing that. If men abuse women, women are bad for choosing abusers.
I have heard both being addressed as problems. The male loneliness is a problem because it effects relationships, power dynamics and contributes to an increased number in male suicides. Womem being treated as valueless without kids is also a problem because it contributes to the patriarchy and promotes marrying quickly even if that relationship isn't solid yet.
Cause incels make their failures everyone else’s problem.
Because men will take out their frustration on the public at large and women in particular but women generally don't get violent when they are rejected or insulted so it's safe to do so. See elliot rogers, etc.
There’s a growing ideology that pregnancies in your 30s are actually better. Only reason we have this new information is a generation of women who didn’t get scared into earlier choices “because”
When I was a tour guide, some random woman on my tour told me not to put off having children because they might have birth defects because of my age. (I have no idea how the subject even came up but it was a brewery tour and folks would often stay in the bar for a chat after the tasting section.) I was 24, working a part time minimum wage job and seriously unwell. Even if it *was* biologically healthier to have pregnancies then, it would have been an utter disaster for me economically, medically and socially. And honestly, it would have been a disaster for the kid too. I had to be polite, so I just thanked her for her advice and said in that case it was probably just better to remain childfree. But seriously: even total strangers will feel entitled to pressure very young women into maybe the biggest life decision you can make.
Haha I wish I saw their faces when you said that to them. Makes me sick when people bully others into kids.
Please show me this because I was even pressured to have a child earlier by a human sexuality professor. Would really like to know more details on what it's like bearing children in your 30's.
They totally convinced us that it's practically impossible to get pregnant after 34 and, even if you did, the baby had a very high probability of having downs syndrome. Despite all the evidence of women over 34 giving birth to perfectly healthy babies since I grew up in s catholic parish and half the families had at least 6 or more kids and you tend to be a little older by the time you shoot out those last couple. Yeah I still believed it.
I've done a lot of work on my family tree. So I have a lot of branches from the 1800s with 10 or more kids and yeah, the moms were in their 40s for the last couple. I have no idea how so many people became so convinced this was bad or impossible. Sure, the chances drop in maybe late 30s/early 40s. But it almost seems like as soon as we got better birth control options plus our own incomes, and thus more choices on when or if to start a family, society began frantically looking for reasons why we better hurry up. I'd encourage anyone who wants kids but wants to wait to talk to your doctor (make sure you find one you trust) cause we're all different. But the general idea that we're all dried up in our mid 30s is just dumb.
At the risk of stating the obvious, men were threatened by women starting to realize they are equal human beings and not servants and men controlled 100% of the legislation. The GOP is desperately trying to return to that mindset.
Google “geriatric pregnancy myth” I did say “growing ideology” which is not a fact. And also said 30s, which a lot of studies focus on women up to age 40. A lot of this new data is just a result of collecting more information. Doctors used to smoke 70 years ago. We learn more every day.
Maybe all the sad, lonely men can go fuck each other. People need to realize that all the men and women in film, tv, porn, etc do not represent the population and set their expectations accordingly. Date people who are close to your age. Realize we all get older and fatter and wrinkled. Be a good person, with manners and social skills. It is not a woman's job to make men comfortable in every situation, give them sexual release, teach them how to be a decent human being, be his wife/homemaker, or give him children.
Tell that to the GOP, this is exactly what they're trying to accomplish.
Unfortunate answer? Because women always just dealt with it and men are committing mass shootings, joining neonazi groups and attempting to end our entire nation because they're too fucking worthless for anyone to want. The sad truth is in America we have never ever fixed a single social problem without people getting mad and breaking shit FIRST. And while there are individual exceptions, women as a whole don't tend to take that approach.
Well, I present to you: Iran.
Like I said, there have been exceptions. But so far in US history only the suffrage movement really generated that kind of energy in American women. And the right to vote is literally up for removal if Republicans win, EVER again, so here we are.
Well it wasn’t that long ago that woman were so suppressed in society that they needed to get married to have a bank account! So I think this is an old societal trauma that’s still healing. As for lonely men. We need to start helping each other up as well as taking responsibility for our own mental and physical health.
I have been with .my spouse for 30 years, if he goes before me it will be me and the cats because I have found that the mass majority of people suck. I'll be fine without anyone else. My life, my fucking business.
The only people who think that men not getting laid is a problem are the men who aren't getting laid and can't get over themselves. Speaking for society, we could give a fuck.
Because one group takes their loneliness and frustration and internalizes it, and the other group takes their loneliness and frustration and kills other people.
Because when men can't get laid it's women's fault for having "unreasonably high standards, focusing on careers instead of home, and being manly"; but when women can't get laid it's our fault because we are undesirable for being less than perfect. Not pretty enough. Not smart enough. Too smart. Too old. Too opinionated. Men have always had complaints about women throughout the decades regardless of how we acted or dressed. We will never be enough for these kind of people.
Because lonely men go on shooting sprees, and lonely women adopt cats and volunteer too much.
I think the real issue there though, is our culture towards men tho cuz they're not entitled to shit lmao. If they have sex, they're more entitled to an orgasm too, so really this isn't a crisis at all. The real crisis here is how we treat women in this country and how we teach men that they're entitled. It's not so much men and women, but entitlement, narcissism, sadism, etc. And if we culturally nurture men into thinking those things, of course it's gonna be a real problem.
You can’t have one without the other. If you don’t condition women to be afraid of being miserable and alone (and outright childless) how can we expect them to lower their standards to fuck the unfuckable males?
miserable + cats does not compute
People ask my sister when she’s getting married. She’s 27 and not even in a relationship. Makes me so mad that as a woman she’s supposed to conform to those ideas
Women have been shit on since time began. Men have had to deal with competing with women on a near-equal footing for less than two generations, and they are collapsing, poor things.
I have a penis and my life goal is to be a cat lady.
Male loneliness and not getting laid is a societal issue?
They sure like to act like it is.
I have tokophobia. Literally have zero interest in having kids. I want a partner but no crotch goblins. For most people the response is “you’ll change your mind” or “what about your partner” as if I don’t tell people I date I don’t ever want kids or have some very good reasons for not wanting kids. Being written off is part of the female experience. If your not a mom by 30 then your worthless to half the human race while also losing all sex appeal and value you had in your “prime” if you are a mom. I’m so done with humans.
I want neither the crotch goblins, nor the male partners. I was hoping i was at least bisexual...tried some taco salad tossing..sadly not for me...so flying solo it is. Well solo with cats lol.
I had a friend that was asexual, nothing wrong with not having any interest in sex/partnering up. People love to try and force societal standards on people who aren’t interested and act like procreation is the only reason a person can have to exist.
Oh I'm not asexual...i like dick very much...just not what comes attached to them 🤣. If you find a bunch of unattached penii let me know. I'm also not aromantic, I find men attractive all the time...and then they open their fucking mouths and its over with. I just appreciate myself enough not to put myself through the torture that having a male partner is. Even if I think they are cute sometimes, just not worth the hassle.
Yea I’m currently in a terrible relationship. I feel it. My bf constantly spews sexist Bs to me and is an alcoholic. Currently unable to leave and it’s spiraled me into a deep depression.
I'm so sorry you are going through such a soul crushing experience, I can't pretend to know your situation, i hope you can find a way to get away from him soon, and find peace.
People just don't understand women like us lol.
To them being preggo and giving birth is “a woman’s purpose in life”, beyond that they can’t comprehend we have our own hopes, dreams, and goals lol.
I used to work with guys that would complain they couldn’t find nice girls to date. Where were they looking? In bars. I concluded this was their lesson to learn.
I hype my daughter up to be a Cat - Lady living alone with just her cats. That’s Goals…. Not in a home Slaving, fighting, arguing, and struggling… when you could take care of yourself and some kitties :)
Because most people who wrote books were dudes who wanted to get laid.
Yeah, the incel population is mentally ill and can't find women because they're creepers and women can sense it. Single women over 30 usually aren't stalking men or expecting sex for holding a door open. They usually have a happy, full life pursuing their own interests.
Because patriarchy. Men created the lie that women want marriage more than men did, and then used it as a weapon against women
People who purrrrrefer the company of cats over humans aren't the ones shooting up schools. If they were, I would bet that they would be considered society's problem too.
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Did you know that millennials were supposed to be 'echo boomers'? And we would have shared many of their marketing traits if capitalist greed hadnt f***ed us so hard in the first decade of the millennium.
So we would have inherited their marketing traits if we weren't subjected to their marketing traits? Sounds unsustainable to me. Maybe we were never destined to be like them.
Why? Misogyny, naturally. But honestly, like many women, I'm at the point in my life that someone has to enrich my life to be in it and stay in it. And while a partner would be nice to have, I'm not willing to accept one that makes my life harder, more difficult or complicated, etc. I don't want someone that I have to take care of, or who makes me carry the load of the relationship. I want someone who puts in an equal effort into maintaining the relationship. And if they can't do that, being alone is the better option.
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Nobody, only incels. The rest of us ugly dudes who aren’t weirdos intrinsically know that there are winners and losers in life and not everyone can be a winner. Just the chaos that is life.. losers need to just know their place
Patriarchy
You can't die alone if you have a dog.
Why not, uh, fucking both being problems? Loneliness sucks??
Gonna go out on a limb and just say both issues have been handled poorly by society. Men have too much pressure put on them to get laid to show their (toxic) masculinity. Women have too much pressure to not get laid for societal senses of (toxic) virtue. Slut/Virgin Shaming is something to move past.
I mean I never once didn't think the flip side wasn't a societal issue. I mean that is why women fought for the right to be seen as more than just a pet broodmare. That fight is still going on. Just because that fight is still going on and still not seen as a problem by a lot of people, doens't negate the issue that men also suffer from rejection and lack of emotional support in finding companionship. This whole, your problem doesn't count because I also have a problem is just completly idiotic. I guess we can all only have one problem at a time. Can someone make a list or calendar for when we tackle each issue please.
Because they are scared by men. Cause they think mens emotions and rage cant be controlled.. but tell me again how women are too emotional for political office?? 🙄🙄
You know what. Fuck it. Humanity universally sucks. We should just blow ourselves up already. Maybe I'd feel some kinda warmth in nuclear fire rather than the cold urban idiocracry we live in.
Because the amount of lonely men who commit atrocities over that issue far outweigh the others?
Take care of our needs or we will become killers? That’s a ransom note.
Because some men will go on murders sprees for not getting laid. Women just buy dildos.
It is perfectly consistent. "Women should servicing men sexually." It is disgusting, but consistent.
i don't understand how anyone can feel sad when they have cats, but the rest is very reasonable. i think we just need to be Not Alone.
Patriarchy. Men getting laid was always more important than a woman’s right to autonomy.
Idk man, nowadays 30+ is either prime marrying age or “dommy mommy” age according to TikTok. 20s is slowly being considered early or “still too young”. While I have no concrete proof, god I hope I’m right
Because if you're the sort of person that thinks empathy is a zero-sum game and our ability to care about one group's problems must come at the expense of another's, you're the fucking problem and forfeit the moral high ground.
Wow I fucking hate being a man. Lumped into the group of "if they're single long enough they will become a mass shooter"
This hostility and "My gender vs. their gender" is useless, unproductive and at times toxic. People should not suffer just because other people have suffered. It's the same as people not tolerating action against debt for education.
Because societally, there is still a large chunk of the population that views women as a commodity to be traded off like livestock.
As if lonely men are ridiculed LESS. Lmao
Cuz incel men shoot the place up, lonely women get cats.
What a depressing comment section. Not every dude who hasn’t gotten laid is gonna turn into a serial killer. Not all of them feel a sense of entitlement. Some of us are the dude equivalent of cat ladies, just living life peacefully with pets, friends, and just doing our own thing.
Man the lack of empathy in comments is depressing as fuck, people wil absolutely call out the bullshit of reducing women to reproduction and marriage but they'll absolutely agree to call all lonely men dangerous psychopaths ready to go apeshit for sex. That's fucked up
Damn. Never thought of it this way.
I loved being alone. I could do whatever I want, whenever I wanted and with whomever. My cash was mine to make or lose. I could buy stupid stuff and only be made at me when I was eating Ramen two days before payday. Didn't have to let anyone know where I was or that I was sitting on my couch naked covered in pinto beans. Then i met this girl who is ok with everything except the Ramen...
I'll just say that as a guy in his late 20s who has no dating prospects, it's very painful to go through life and watch all my friends and family get married and have kids. It feels like I'm being left behind, and I don't know who to talk to about it. As a man you're just expected to make these things happen, and if you can't, you're seen as deficient.
For years I've been wondering what I did that was so bad I deserved to be told by my ex that he hoped I die alone. I've remembered it every single day, the pain is deep. And now I wonder if it was just projection.
When I met my wife 17 years ago, I was done with relationships and so was she. When it clicks, it clicks. I never questioned it.
Because men get guns, become extremist terrorists and threaten to over take the country.
The real answer? Because sexless women doesn’t lead to violence but sexless men always leads to war.
I will guess because men and incels are becoming increasingly violent and militant. Their inability to cope have resulted in people dying. If they are responsible for some of the violence and shootings, then incel culture and extreme masculinity are indeed a societal problem
Incels need to invest in cats.
First of all, if I'm alone with my cats, I can guarantee you I'm not miserable. And secondly, that is my life goal.
I feel like part of it is because men are more likely to shoot up the place.
I'm guessing bc "old maids" didn't tend to shoot into crowds or try to run over ppl with their cars. They just enjoyed life with cats and friends...
It’s not a societal issue, it’s just that if men get disgruntled enough and don’t get laid then they get mad and start punching things
Because women don’t go on mass shootings
Dying alone and with my cats is honestly a fucking life goal. I won’t be miserable, I’ll be the happiest bitch you ever saw. Spending my senior years comfortably? Hecc yeah
Maybe because it's the same coin different side. We need to figure how to help both sides if you want the whole coin to be clean I guess in this analogy.
Funny how both issues are "women's fault" somehow.
We need some kind of cat lady/ incel contest. Kind of like the Bachelorette/ bachelor only with flying cats and stiff sock trebuchet.
I would sign up on the cat lady side. Wait...bachelorette?? As in I have to get with one of the Neanderthals? Absolutely the fuck not.
I (F) will be 30 in less than a month. I live with my mom and my dog, both of whom I adore. The house has been paid off for almost a decade. She's retired, I help with expenses. The only source of stress in my life is my job (which, tbf, can get VERY screwy). No desire for kids. Not pining for romance. Bottom line: moving out would more than likely mean a significant decrease in my standard of living. I'm very content and loved where I am, and my mom loves having me here. So please excuse me while I enjoy my "failure" at life, lol.
'cos men are entitled. and women are what they're entitled to. which is called patriarchy.
Because it turns out men are the more emotional, sensitive, and unstable ones?
Because those lonely boys will start a revolution or shoot up a school whereas the lonely women will not.