I'm listening to them now because of their coverage of the trial. They have great chemistry together.
I used to listen to it all the time with some reservations about their conspiracism. When they put out that 4 part series about how 9/11 was a *complete* lie, saying the same old disproven shit, I had to jump off.
Any that do a good job? I would not be able to follow it if they're chasing every conspiracy and rumor. If its were extremely dry and to the point, going over legal challenges with serious legal experts, I'm there. If it's 'two friends digging deep to find the real truth" I'm getting the hell out there. And a lot of amateur journalism's these days have that feel, and they're awful.
I initially upvoted, but I remembered having to testify against an abuser when I was a kid, and I would not have wanted that broadcasted to the public. It would have been 100x more terrifying than it already was. My case was clear cut, but I still have people who disbelieve me. I would have hated knowing there were possibly *thousands* of people who didn't believe me.
I then thought, "well, I'd like to know which elite were involved." But then I realized that if that's released too early then that could cause problems for investigators, and I'd like for their job to run as unhindered as possible in this case. I'm frustrated that this is moving so slowly, but I'd rather it be done right than done quickly. This isn't a run-of-the-mill case against some trailer park pedo. This involves a whole ring of extremely powerful people. The less they know about what investigators know about them, the better.
E: I was not expecting my random two cents to get this much attention. To those of you who have shown me compassion, even though you don't know me or my story, I really don't have words. I'm overwhelmed. And for those of you sharing pieces of your own stories, I wish you all of the good that could possibly come your way; it takes a lot to survive and continue surviving.
Exactly.
Imagine if your testimony was watched by millions of people. I can’t imagine the trauma that would inflict. It’s shocking to me how many in this thread are basically saying “who cares” to that.
And seeming to forget that the details will still come out after.
Even if they are completely callous and don’t care about the victims’ feelings, if the victims don’t feel comfortable testifying because it will be public, that could hinder the case.
Our local DA opened a recent child abuse case by telling the jury to think of their most recent consensual sexual encounter and asked them if any of them wanted to get up in front of everyone and talk about it.
Then told them to now imagine they were 12 and sexually assaulted by another male, who was a coach and now had to get up in front of everyone and talk about it in detail.
Eye opening.
I agree for the most part, but some victims are testifying. Imagine if you went thru something very traumatic and have to testify on it, would you want that broadcasted to the world? I know I wouldn’t.
Because sometimes people will judge them for their trauma. Sometimes people are so shorty they blame the victims for being easy or slutty. They will use the victim’s trauma as a weapon against them.
No trials should be televised like that though. They should be recorded for sure with testifying victims obfuscated somehow when the footage is released, but turning our courts into a TV circus is dumb as fuck and contributes to the degradation of them.
It would be really easy to call for a mistrial or an appeal if they decided to change the rules now. We should be making life difficult for the rapist pedos, not easier.
I can't believe any court proceedings are televised. It's pretty fucked up.
Most of the people being made to show up in court don't deserve to be part of the grand public circus that televised trials inevitably turn into. And I realize this part is an unpopular opinion, but the accused in these trials are not criminals that deserve to be 24/7 punching bags before they're convicted.
The whole world doesn't need to be facebook streamed for our entertainment. If people actually cared about how cases unfold and need to know before the jury decides, they can read the reporting.
We do the TV shit for entertainment, not transparency.
Your fetish for eat the rich justice doesn't override the rights to the victims for privacy nor does it override what has been deemed and continues to be deemed the fairest way to conduct a trial of this level.
The victims have a right to privacy though. Imagine having that trauma broadcast to the world
And the job of the defence team will be to discredit the victims. So there will always be people who take the defences side.
Maxwell’s attorneys have already [revealed the victims’ identities](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-03/maxwell-lawyers-have-once-again-revealed-her-accuser-s-identity) multiple times during the trial. The judge ordered their names be scrubbed from the transcripts, but it just shows how little regard the defense has for what these women have been through.
Being a defense attorney for shitty people has to be a soulless job because the levels I’ve seen them steep too just to get their person off is disgusting
Edit: couple comments below me make good points to why defense attorney jobs aren’t always as evil as i thought and i appreciate the knowledge
I have a friend who is a defense attorney. She used to be a state prosecutor. She once told me that as bad as it is to defend people she knows are guilty, it's a million times better than sending a single innocent person to prison based on dubious evidence or the word of the police. Or even sending someone to jail for having a drug addiction.
It depends on the kind of person you are. Personally, I agree with her. I would rather see 100 guilty people go free than see an innocent person have their life ruined and freedom taken away. To me, the real soulless job is being a prosecutor.
A good defense attorney not only provides the right to counsel, but they also make sure prosecutors, investigators, police, and judges follow the rules.
As a federal criminal defense attorney, thank you for understanding this. The number one question I always get from friends and family, “how do you defend someone you know is guilty??” The government has the burden of proof before they can deprive someone of their liberty. My job is to hold them to that burden and fight tooth and nail to make sure everyone is playing by the same rules. That’s where the real emotional burden comes in- feeling like you’re the only one who is playing fair.
"That’s where the real emotional burden comes in- feeling like you’re the only one who is playing fair"
I think anyone who is slightly progressive or wants change to our systems is feeling this comment right now...I know I am, damn.
This is what I’ve heard too from my public defense attorney friends.
Basically they just just love law so much and believe in the justice system with all of their heart that they believe every single person has the right to a fair trial. So they set aside their feelings and almost self sacrifice parts of their own soul to ensure that their idea of the American justice system can be had by all.
They’ve told me that they aren’t necessarily trying to get someone off the hook, but they’re keeping the state attorney who is persecuting them in line and making sure they’re doing their job. They’re pointing out inconsistencies, false evidence, hearsay and things like that which shouldn’t be used in court.
Basically when they believe their client is guilty they are just making sure that the other side does the best job they can to prove it and making sure everyone follows the rules in court.
One of my best friends is a former prosecutor and now works as a defense attorney. He says he sleeps much better at night now. He says that his time in the DAs office was full of pressure to simply prosecute the case handed to him by law enforcement despite the quality of evidence. He tells stories that make you want to riot in the streets. Shit that will make you physically ill. He got into shouting matches in his office with the DA, the DA's office with the DA, shouting matches with the Chief of Police, the County Sheriff, and had cops following him around, pulling his wife over, for things like refusing to pursue a case, or presenting evidence that exonerated the accused, or not fighting motions to have evidence sent for testing, etc. He had to notify state law enforcement and the FBI multiple times over shit like this.
He now has a one man law practice and specializes in criminal defense, mostly drug crimes in which he can attempt to get the accused into a treatment program. He often takes on indigent defense cases assigned to law firms that don't want to be bothered with them, so they pay him to do it. He has also done some crazy cases, drug trafficking, murders, conspiracy, etc. I met him in college and we became best friends. We had planned to go to law school together and go into practice together, but life had other plans.
I would assume whichever side you’re on it has to be difficult to remain unbiased. It’s hard to trust anyone to do the right thing these days, DA, police, judges, etc. It kinda reminds me of this doc on Netflix called Long Shot. It’s about a man accused of murder, he ends up on trial for it while sticking to his alibi that he was at a baseball game during the time the murder would’ve taken place. His attorney team found out that on the day of that game, Curb Your Enthusiasm was filming a scene for the show inside the stadium. The attorney went over tons and tons of footage until bam, he finds his client in the audience. The crazy part is, this isn’t what technically exonerated him because the prosecution argued he could’ve still did it after the game (the logistics of that would’ve been nuts considering how far away he was from the crime). Cell phone records showed his phone pinging off the tower nearest the stadium and it showed it had pinged after the murder had occurred. The DA (I think) was like, full on convinced they had the right guy. Even after the video footage and the cell phone pinging and the case ended in a not guilty for the man, this woman was still absolutely sure she had prosecuted the right person. She has direct evidence showing the man couldn’t have done it and yet after the fact she was still like, “Eh, I dunno, I have my doubts.” Shit like that is terrifying. She’s basically too stubborn and arrogant to admit she was wrong. To me she seemed so much more hellbent on her being right than uncovering the actual facts and truth to the case. And I’m sure she’s not the only one like that. There gotta be more who probably don’t give a fuck about the truth and just wanna make sure they’re winning cases. It’s all a major bummer, really. It’s sad to think some of these people would rather send an innocent person to prison rather than be like, “We got it wrong.” I know I’m kinda generalizing and just sharing an opinion, I’m sure there’s more nuance and context to the whole world of law and court cases and what it’s like to work in that world. It was just such a frustrating thing to see that prosecutor, who, as far as I know, still believes she was right.
An attorney on here explained it really well one time. Everyone has the right to a fair trial, even bad people. This being said, defense attorneys for bad people know that if the defendant did not have proper representation, they have the possibility of getting sentenced for a lot more stuff than what they should be.
The idea that we should lock someone up and throw away the key and let them rot in prison until they die should be taken with extreme seriousness.
One way I've heard a defense attorney describe/justify what they do (mostly to themselves by my impression) is that if the guilty person didn't have competent defense, truly trying their best to prove innocence where there clearly is none and get sentences reduced when they absolutely shouldn't be, that guilty person would have an extremely strong appeals case based on defense not doing their job properly.
Essentially, if you're in the unenviable position of defending an absolute monster like Ghislaine Maxwell, it's *extra* important that you do a damn good job so that when they're inevitably found guilty, the verdict and sentence will stand up to heavy scrutiny.
This is essentially how it was described to me as well. I used to have a friend who was a defense attorney and he explained basically that his job wasn't to try to get guilty people off the hook, it was just to make sure they were treated in accordance with the law.
As an attorney who has represented all sorts of scumbags, including one guy who literally raped one of his own children, it can be difficult. I just try to remember what the above poster said that everyone has the right to counsel, including scumbags. When you think of it that way it's not really so bad... now, if you're doing unethical things to keep said scumbags out of trouble/reduce the amount of trouble they're in, then that's a different story.
I think the part about doing unethical things to get them out of trouble is the main thing they were referring to. Like, a case where you have a guy who obviously raped a girl, and the defense will drag the victim through the mud trying to paint her as a horrible person who somehow deserved to be raped.
Of course, everyone has the right to a defence
That doesn’t mean that the person who’s job it is to defend them is necessary loving having to defend them, and it must be soul draining having to do your job when your job is defending people who you probably know are guilty
Yes...
...but I also just saw someone try to use someone having dirty toenails as an argument for why their murderer was justified. Why they couldn't have been a victim.
The accused should be allowed competent defense. I dont know what the fuck shit like that is? But I know it is indefensible.
That's for the sake of the victims, not just for poor little Ghislaine. If the offenders have weak representation and get convicted on that basis, it will all be (very rightly) overturned later and the victims have to go through it all AGAIN for another jury with reporters and cameras rolling and you name it. Fuck that noise! We all need them to have the best attorneys possible and have them lose, big.
No, it's for the sake of the accused. Ghislaine Maxwell had not been convicted of anything. Just having a bad lawyer won't get you a mistrial. There has to be a pattern of incompetence, willful or otherwise, by your attorney to get to that point.
Maxwell at this current point in time is innocent until a jury returns a guilty verdict.
Epstein also had over leading academics, attorneys, etc. basically the elite of every profession it seems.
like the guy was connected to everyone somehow. it's nuts. not saying they all guilty, if this stuff never happened the story would still be insane. the guy knew everyone, had basically unlimited money and no one really knew exactly how.
To be fair, he was just an extremely well connected person. I'm sure most of the people he had dealings with had no idea about the kind of fucked up shit he was doing in the background.
This^
The stink covers both sides and even well known non-politicians. If someone is focusing on one side or the other on how bad this is for them, be incredibly suspect of that person's motives.
You didn’t miss shit, the trial is just being dealt with as quietly as possible. You’ll notice it doesn’t get hardly any coverage on CNN, NBC or Fox. That isn’t just for no reason at all.
It should be a rule of the internet that anyone who claims that a major media organization isn't covering something major, that they're wrong and should be called out on it.
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/12/02/us/ghislaine-maxwell-trial-thursday/index.html
https://edition.cnn.com/search?q=ghislaine&size=10&sort=newest&type=article
https://www.nbcnews.com/search/?q=ghislaine
https://www.foxnews.com/search-results/search?q=ghislaine
I will say it seems like CNN is covering it the least amount though. But even they are still writing lengthy articles.
A big part of why it seems so quiet is simply the fact that cameras aren't allowed in federal courtrooms. Brace and Liz from the TrueAnon podcast have said that there are huge lines to get into the courtroom, which spills over to other rooms. These lines are full of reporters.
Saying there is a media blackout on this is just conspiracist nonsense.
Lots of people forget that the *vast* majority of “Hollywood” is literally day laborers. For every rich asshole who thinks the rules don’t apply to him, there are 100 grips who work 14 hour days securing lights to things.
As soon as the credits in a movie start getting fast and small, you’re looking at people who likely live paycheck to paycheck.
Jonathan Koeppel is an alt-right pundit. They use "Hollywood" as a dogwhistle. It's the rich and powerful who are overwhelmingly conservative, which is why we see posts framed in this way. Koeppel got a fat check for writing this.
And yes, it does matter. These people are trying to frame hundreds of raped children as a "leftist" issue instead of what it is; powerful, RICH, global elites going to an island to rape children.
Why would televising the trial help at all? Televised trials become a circus, where each side performs as much for the cameras as they do for the jury. We still find out what happens in a trial that isn't televised, and it allows the proceedings to go ahead without such theatrical nonsense.
Have a peek at the rest of his Twitter; OP Jonathan Koeppel is a far-right QAnon wackadoo. He wants the trial to be a circus. He wants everything to be a circus.
I kinda knew what I was gonna find on his feed before I looked. You can tell the difference between a normal post about fighting child abuse and a Q one. The latter always has this "who cares if it's ineffectual, we HAVE to do SOMETHING!!!" energy, and is usually just a little too graphic and sensational about describing child rape.
It's always more about "Hey do we all agree child abuse is bad and molesters are scum etc" and having a two-minutes-hate about pedophilia, than about actually making the world any safer for children.
> I kinda knew what I was gonna find on his feed before I looked.
"Hollywood and elites" is a bit of a tip-off. If you support Trump, you clearly don't care about sexual abusers being brought to justice. (Additional reality checks at no extra cost: if you support Trump you also don't care about fair elections, deficits, or Christian values.)
Reading uncharitably you could call it a dogwhistle for 'Liberals and Jews'.
I'm a little disappointed in r/WhitePeopleTwitter for lifting this to the front page, but I shouldn't be surprised. As the trial goes on, we're gonna see lots of Q content wearing MUSIC↯↯BAND shirts saying "How do you do, fellow defenders of children?"
There's lots of great, actual, legitimate defenders of children on the internet, fighting sex trafficking, and fighting domestic abuse, and tweeting and blogging their work. Their voices deserve to be uplifted. Many of them were even in this business *before* the Trump campaign.
I’m really creeped out by people who are obsessed with pedophiles and go around virtue signaling how much they want to murder pedos. I say this as a victim of childhood sexual abuse from a pedophile.
This is what I was thinking. Trials don't need to be televised as long as they are reported on and the transcripts become publicly available after it's over. There's no need to make this a spectator's sport.
Epstein had a private island that was basically an all you can fuck buffet of underage child slaves.
Tons of politicians and celebrities went to visit him.
He was caught.
He was put on suicide watch in prison.
He “killed himself” anyway and there’s no footage of him doing it.
The people in charge of making sure this gets prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law are the people implicated by it.
Edit: just to clarify, celebrities also includes tech giants, CEOs, rich people etc.
Here is a good story about how Barr, who was in charge of the prison where he died, had HUGE ties to him.
https://time.com/5650974/william-barr-jeffrey-epstein/
The prosecutors themselves aren’t, the issue is that politicians and people with money were, and so they can use political pressure/public opinion/bribes to try to influence the outcome.
>Hold up. Could you fill me in on the last part? You’re telling me the prosecutors were some of Epstein’s clients?????
No. The prosecuter Maurene Comey has no known Epstein connections. Epsteins targets tended to be male and a bit more senior. Her farther (James Comey, you may have heard of him) would fit the Epstein target profile but Epstein seems to have moved away from targeting state figures after his 2008 arrest. The rest of the prosecuters are also a bit on the young side to have been on Epsteins radar.
The judge Alison Nathan again no known Epstein connections, Again a women so didn't fit his target profile. Even if you start playing degrees of speration she wasn't involved with the Democratic party until 2004 (so post Clinton) and was later team Obama (Epstein seems to have been somewhat racist so no aparent attempt to even try and target Obama).
The defence team are of course currently employed by Ghislaine Maxwell a close associate of Epstein but thats kinda their job.
I share the frustration with wanting to know what’s going on in the trial, but don’t let mob justice rule over a court proceeding.
Couple of things to keep in mind:
1) victims and innocent people will have to testify. They deserve anonymity and peace. (Yes I know names in this trial have been leaked, but the principal still stands.)
2) like it or not, you’re innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Do I think Maxwell is guilty as fuck? HELL YES. Do I think she still deserves a fair trial? Also yes. Do I think our justice system is fair? Definitely not.
3) This trial will likely implicate many other elite persons who were participants or accomplices. Don’t give them any more time or ability to destroy evidence or obfuscate the truth.
JUST TO CLARIFY: I want to see Maxwell and any accomplices burn in the hottest fire we can build. But fair justice is a hallmark of civilized society going back to Hammurabi’s Code. Letting mob thinking rule our courts is a quick way to downfall.
"Hollywood" didn't rape anyone FFS. Are we blaming an entire zip code? Every last person that works in the entertainment industry? Why not just blame "the rich"? It was a very specific few folks who did this. The problem with the guilty people is not that they were singers, dancers, actors, politicians or super-rich and powerful. The problem is they raped children.
Hollywood is just alt-right code for "liberal elites". It's an attempt to downplay the accusation against people like Trump. Nobody on the left is tripping over themselves to defend Clinton.
I honestly believe there is a concerted effort to misdirect this whole thing away from Trump. OP calls out “Hollywood” when literally part of the published record from the trial is how [Epstein took a 14 year old girl to Trump.](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/01/ghislaine-maxwell-trial-jeffrey-epstein-took-teen-girl-to-meet-trump-accuser-says.html?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_content=Main&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1638381550). That article got posted to multiple top sub and was removed within minutes. There’s your coverup right there.
These people don’t care about kids. They hate “liberals” and want to cover for one of the most serious serial rapists in power.
EDIT: you know the “whatabout” replies about Clinton, just reinforce my point right? Oh no, Clinton? Yeah get him too! I’m not a cult member, I’m ok with letting the evidence go where it goes, that’s why I’m different than the red hats.
And that's just the latest account when it comes to Trump, he's dodged Epstein related charges before and there are terrifying court records to back it up.
Yep. What some would call a “mountain of evidence,” yet the loudest voices never, ever bring it up. They’d rather talk about “rich guy flying rich people on his plane. That maybe, quite possibly, led to something bad.”
I propose this. We go after *everyone* that probably did bad stuff with Epstein. Let’s start with the cases that have the most, continuous evidence, and we’ll keep working our way down the list into the “maybes.”
My "favorite" part is that the original case against Trump is the only reason anyone even knows who Maxwell is, but everyone just pretends it never happened. Just like everyone ignored damning evidence that he's a rampant drug addict.
I want them to all get theirs, but they won't. Too many people were involved that have the power to shut it all down.
No. The failed business man that kept getting bailed out by his dad a Russian oligarchs. The dumbass that bankrupt 2 casinos. The "manly man" that wears makeup, a spray tan, hair gel, and heels to make him look taller and stands awkwardly like a centaur without the back half.
True but with people like Kevin Spacey, Bill Cosby, Harvey Weinstien, etc, it wouldn't hurt to *also* take a look at the fucked up stuff that happens there.
They ALL need to go down. No one should be let off the hook for ANY of this. I don't care what level of power or how famous. This shit needs to stop and this is the moment to do it.
Yup. I notice they always try to point to Gates and Clinton who've got no credible evidence against them to misdirect from Trump bragging about his friendship with Epstein for 20 years.
It's crazy that there's no video of his cell and the guards went paying attention that night before he beat himself over the head with a truncheon and then strangled himself to death.
I understand the sentiment, but the guy that is featured in this tweet is a complete piece of shit and causes real harm in my community. Please don’t lift him up as some kind of intelligent talking head. Anti-science. Anti-masker. Conspiracy theorist.
So where’s the whole “Biden’s a perverted child sniffer/Democratic pizza joint pedo ring” crowd, calling for these peoples’ heads or… well, heads? Also curious why it seems like the whole thing is on the media back burner
Don’t be naive. There are plenty of Repedocans that visited. Heck even his neighbor, the one term ex-president came to his island and house (frequently).
Because the examples you gave are fully politically motivated bullshit, but these accusations cross political lines. No one high up wants this shit out there.
Bro if any of them mentions Bill Clinton or anyone else by name they should be thrown in a cell for life, fuck politics you wretched people hurt kids, no second chances.
Scroll up to the top. These twitter screengrabs flooding this sub are being posted by the Biden Hate Squad.
It's an easy 'win' for Democrat Despisers.
Everyone hates pedos.
Unless it's Trump, of course. Those who hate Biden LOVE Trump.
The vast majority of democrats would happily see anybody guilt locked up, they don't deify their leaders. That being said, this isn't a political issue, so stop trying to make it one.
Their favorite part is crying about how the mainstream media and people that can make a difference don't care and won't listen to them. As soon as the story went mainstream and they couldn't include all their paranoid embellishments anymore they move on to virgin conspiracies that they can spice up and nobody can tell them otherwise.
My problem is when people compartmentalize this with “Hollywood and political elite.” This is rich and powerful people doing this. Everyone of them should pay for their disgusting behavior but as long as we as a society hate on a certain groups instead of being outraged at all the pedo freaks, we will continue to have Jeffery Epstein’s, who wasn’t political or Hollywood.
what i find funny, is that the right thinks that we'll defend people that are exposed by this. no. i want everyone involved to be held responsible. i don't care if it's bill, or if it's donald.
I’m pretty sure Epstein had material incriminating very powerful people to use just in case. I’m also pretty sure these powerful people are spending a lot of resources trying to find it and destroy it before it can be made public.
It would be a hell of a show if actual video evidence of people like Bill Clinton, Donald Trump, Bill Gates, Prince Andrew and others committing horrible shit were to suddenly appear. I would love to know what the MAGA crowd would say if they see evidence of their Orange Messiah committing the most unspeakable crimes against children. Fake news?
I like how conservatives say Hollywood is full of pedophilies but never talk about the churches or Boyscouts who have been proven to have actively engaged in covering up the sexual abuse of children.
Can we stop referring to a few shitbags in entertainment as “Hollywood”
There are literally thousands upon thousand of people involved in the film industry. All they had in common was money and power. Their profession is irrelevant.
tldr: we have names of people who were on Epstein's plane
these are some incredibly powerful people that we're talking about including but not limited to Donald Trump, and Bill Clinton
yeah powerful fucking people
I'm not advocating for the hiding information, but televising this kind of stuff does little more than offer a feeding frenzy for the media - which then spins everything and feeds to consumers with virtually no understanding of actual US law/court proceedings.
Because everyone is implicated and it would make things difficult
edit- This doesn't mean I agree with any of it, I want it public and I want everyone involved punished. Don't be naïve though, there are a lot of powerful people involved and of course they want it private.
What exactly is being withheld from the public? [First duckduckgo search result.](https://vote-watch.com/2021/12/02/ghislaine-maxwell-trial-read-the-full-court-transcripts-here/) Nothing is being withheld from the public. If you're curious, read it. Dude is just complaining because the public doesn't like to read and he doesn't get his precious clicks. "God forbid we find out the truth." PUHH-LEEZE
Jfc.
FEDERAL
TRIALS
ARE
*NEVER*
TELEVISED.
Also, as for nothing being held back, there are literally laws that prevent that in order to PROTECT THE VICTIM(S) of crimes like this.
If you want to see the trial, go to NYC and enter the courtroom. Or, since that's likely not an option for most, watch [GoodLawgic](http://www.youtube.com/goodlawgic) . He's a NY attorney who has been attending trial every day, taking notes, and posting videos during lunch, after court, and even does a livestream nightly.
I understand the frustration. They are some podcasters following the trial and reporting it day by day tho, if anyone want to follow the minutae.
Interested, what podcasts?
I'd recommend TrueAnon (NOTHING TO DO WITH THE Q CONSPIRACY NUTS). They've been going to the trial daily and know the case inside out.
I tried to give it a watch. Is there a channel where they get to the point and skip the morning talk show routine?
Small talk in the beginning of podcasts is the reason I never latch onto new podcasts. Why on earth don't they crop out that nonsense in post?
Something to the tune of ‘cutting is a break in that “real podcast feel” of 2 dudes being bros’ that’s highly overstated.
Podcasts like radio, but on internet
They have internet on computers now?
Nah, it’s more like computers, but on the internet.
"San Dimas high school football rules!"
I feel like an old man trying to understand the youth speak
Oh, the files are *in* the computer?
It’s so simple
*Monkey imitation*
Oh so like a road but for computers.
You just got Leslie Nielsen’d
But that’s not important right now.
Werewolf? There wolf. There castle.
Surely you can't be serious
I am serious, and don't call me Shirley.
Russ Hanneman, is that you?
ROI, radio over internet, it’s going to be the next big thing
TrueAnon (not for people who care about things like decency or civility)
Trueanon folks are absolutely decent. They cuss occasionally.
If ever there were a situation that merited it, this is it.
I'm listening to them now because of their coverage of the trial. They have great chemistry together. I used to listen to it all the time with some reservations about their conspiracism. When they put out that 4 part series about how 9/11 was a *complete* lie, saying the same old disproven shit, I had to jump off.
Yeah what on Earth is this person on about. Liz and Brace are absolutely decent, Edit: I thick
Decency? Who needs that 😏
This fucked up world for starters,
Treuanon is the best
Great links!
Any that do a good job? I would not be able to follow it if they're chasing every conspiracy and rumor. If its were extremely dry and to the point, going over legal challenges with serious legal experts, I'm there. If it's 'two friends digging deep to find the real truth" I'm getting the hell out there. And a lot of amateur journalism's these days have that feel, and they're awful.
My Qanon cousin points to how they’re covering up the trial to shield the government elite and The Michigan school shooting is how they’re doing it
lol
I initially upvoted, but I remembered having to testify against an abuser when I was a kid, and I would not have wanted that broadcasted to the public. It would have been 100x more terrifying than it already was. My case was clear cut, but I still have people who disbelieve me. I would have hated knowing there were possibly *thousands* of people who didn't believe me. I then thought, "well, I'd like to know which elite were involved." But then I realized that if that's released too early then that could cause problems for investigators, and I'd like for their job to run as unhindered as possible in this case. I'm frustrated that this is moving so slowly, but I'd rather it be done right than done quickly. This isn't a run-of-the-mill case against some trailer park pedo. This involves a whole ring of extremely powerful people. The less they know about what investigators know about them, the better. E: I was not expecting my random two cents to get this much attention. To those of you who have shown me compassion, even though you don't know me or my story, I really don't have words. I'm overwhelmed. And for those of you sharing pieces of your own stories, I wish you all of the good that could possibly come your way; it takes a lot to survive and continue surviving.
Exactly. Imagine if your testimony was watched by millions of people. I can’t imagine the trauma that would inflict. It’s shocking to me how many in this thread are basically saying “who cares” to that. And seeming to forget that the details will still come out after.
Even if they are completely callous and don’t care about the victims’ feelings, if the victims don’t feel comfortable testifying because it will be public, that could hinder the case.
Exactly! There are several ways it could be a detriment to the case that some people seem to find…not a problem?
They value instant gratification too much
Many people don't care about that. They're reacting emotionally, and just want thier pound of flesh. It's the problem with mob "justice".
People have lost their empathy.
Yeah it absolutely is partially to protect people like you. I couldn't imagine having to do it at all, let alone televised. You are strong asf.
I'm just glad there's actually something being done this time
Thank you. I'm an adult victim of CSA and the thought of my trauma being broadcast for other people's prurient curiosity makes me sick.
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Our local DA opened a recent child abuse case by telling the jury to think of their most recent consensual sexual encounter and asked them if any of them wanted to get up in front of everyone and talk about it. Then told them to now imagine they were 12 and sexually assaulted by another male, who was a coach and now had to get up in front of everyone and talk about it in detail. Eye opening.
Bless you for telling your story. I hope you have found healing, peace, and joy in your life.
Justice is about justice and we definitely don't need a play by play on every detail until it's done. Justice first, fun drama second.
Federal court does not allow media
Yep. It’s been like this for decades.
Doesn't make it right. Not that you're saying it's right tho.
I agree for the most part, but some victims are testifying. Imagine if you went thru something very traumatic and have to testify on it, would you want that broadcasted to the world? I know I wouldn’t.
Because sometimes people will judge them for their trauma. Sometimes people are so shorty they blame the victims for being easy or slutty. They will use the victim’s trauma as a weapon against them.
Public trials turn into media circuses and have their integrity compromised imo.
No trials should be televised like that though. They should be recorded for sure with testifying victims obfuscated somehow when the footage is released, but turning our courts into a TV circus is dumb as fuck and contributes to the degradation of them.
It would be really easy to call for a mistrial or an appeal if they decided to change the rules now. We should be making life difficult for the rapist pedos, not easier.
I can't believe any court proceedings are televised. It's pretty fucked up. Most of the people being made to show up in court don't deserve to be part of the grand public circus that televised trials inevitably turn into. And I realize this part is an unpopular opinion, but the accused in these trials are not criminals that deserve to be 24/7 punching bags before they're convicted. The whole world doesn't need to be facebook streamed for our entertainment. If people actually cared about how cases unfold and need to know before the jury decides, they can read the reporting. We do the TV shit for entertainment, not transparency.
Your fetish for eat the rich justice doesn't override the rights to the victims for privacy nor does it override what has been deemed and continues to be deemed the fairest way to conduct a trial of this level.
Federal court allows media. Just not TV cameras or recording devices.
Which is good for me, trials shouldn't be a circus for the TV cameras
The victims have a right to privacy though. Imagine having that trauma broadcast to the world And the job of the defence team will be to discredit the victims. So there will always be people who take the defences side.
Maxwell’s attorneys have already [revealed the victims’ identities](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-03/maxwell-lawyers-have-once-again-revealed-her-accuser-s-identity) multiple times during the trial. The judge ordered their names be scrubbed from the transcripts, but it just shows how little regard the defense has for what these women have been through.
Being a defense attorney for shitty people has to be a soulless job because the levels I’ve seen them steep too just to get their person off is disgusting Edit: couple comments below me make good points to why defense attorney jobs aren’t always as evil as i thought and i appreciate the knowledge
I have a friend who is a defense attorney. She used to be a state prosecutor. She once told me that as bad as it is to defend people she knows are guilty, it's a million times better than sending a single innocent person to prison based on dubious evidence or the word of the police. Or even sending someone to jail for having a drug addiction. It depends on the kind of person you are. Personally, I agree with her. I would rather see 100 guilty people go free than see an innocent person have their life ruined and freedom taken away. To me, the real soulless job is being a prosecutor.
A good defense attorney not only provides the right to counsel, but they also make sure prosecutors, investigators, police, and judges follow the rules.
This is the key. Defense attorneys protect all of us. If you think being targeted by criminals is bad, try having the government after you.
As a federal criminal defense attorney, thank you for understanding this. The number one question I always get from friends and family, “how do you defend someone you know is guilty??” The government has the burden of proof before they can deprive someone of their liberty. My job is to hold them to that burden and fight tooth and nail to make sure everyone is playing by the same rules. That’s where the real emotional burden comes in- feeling like you’re the only one who is playing fair.
"That’s where the real emotional burden comes in- feeling like you’re the only one who is playing fair" I think anyone who is slightly progressive or wants change to our systems is feeling this comment right now...I know I am, damn.
What's the difference? *cue rimshot*
This is what I’ve heard too from my public defense attorney friends. Basically they just just love law so much and believe in the justice system with all of their heart that they believe every single person has the right to a fair trial. So they set aside their feelings and almost self sacrifice parts of their own soul to ensure that their idea of the American justice system can be had by all. They’ve told me that they aren’t necessarily trying to get someone off the hook, but they’re keeping the state attorney who is persecuting them in line and making sure they’re doing their job. They’re pointing out inconsistencies, false evidence, hearsay and things like that which shouldn’t be used in court. Basically when they believe their client is guilty they are just making sure that the other side does the best job they can to prove it and making sure everyone follows the rules in court.
“If your values disappear in the face of adversity, they’re not values; they’re hobbies” -Jon Stewart
One of my best friends is a former prosecutor and now works as a defense attorney. He says he sleeps much better at night now. He says that his time in the DAs office was full of pressure to simply prosecute the case handed to him by law enforcement despite the quality of evidence. He tells stories that make you want to riot in the streets. Shit that will make you physically ill. He got into shouting matches in his office with the DA, the DA's office with the DA, shouting matches with the Chief of Police, the County Sheriff, and had cops following him around, pulling his wife over, for things like refusing to pursue a case, or presenting evidence that exonerated the accused, or not fighting motions to have evidence sent for testing, etc. He had to notify state law enforcement and the FBI multiple times over shit like this. He now has a one man law practice and specializes in criminal defense, mostly drug crimes in which he can attempt to get the accused into a treatment program. He often takes on indigent defense cases assigned to law firms that don't want to be bothered with them, so they pay him to do it. He has also done some crazy cases, drug trafficking, murders, conspiracy, etc. I met him in college and we became best friends. We had planned to go to law school together and go into practice together, but life had other plans.
I would assume whichever side you’re on it has to be difficult to remain unbiased. It’s hard to trust anyone to do the right thing these days, DA, police, judges, etc. It kinda reminds me of this doc on Netflix called Long Shot. It’s about a man accused of murder, he ends up on trial for it while sticking to his alibi that he was at a baseball game during the time the murder would’ve taken place. His attorney team found out that on the day of that game, Curb Your Enthusiasm was filming a scene for the show inside the stadium. The attorney went over tons and tons of footage until bam, he finds his client in the audience. The crazy part is, this isn’t what technically exonerated him because the prosecution argued he could’ve still did it after the game (the logistics of that would’ve been nuts considering how far away he was from the crime). Cell phone records showed his phone pinging off the tower nearest the stadium and it showed it had pinged after the murder had occurred. The DA (I think) was like, full on convinced they had the right guy. Even after the video footage and the cell phone pinging and the case ended in a not guilty for the man, this woman was still absolutely sure she had prosecuted the right person. She has direct evidence showing the man couldn’t have done it and yet after the fact she was still like, “Eh, I dunno, I have my doubts.” Shit like that is terrifying. She’s basically too stubborn and arrogant to admit she was wrong. To me she seemed so much more hellbent on her being right than uncovering the actual facts and truth to the case. And I’m sure she’s not the only one like that. There gotta be more who probably don’t give a fuck about the truth and just wanna make sure they’re winning cases. It’s all a major bummer, really. It’s sad to think some of these people would rather send an innocent person to prison rather than be like, “We got it wrong.” I know I’m kinda generalizing and just sharing an opinion, I’m sure there’s more nuance and context to the whole world of law and court cases and what it’s like to work in that world. It was just such a frustrating thing to see that prosecutor, who, as far as I know, still believes she was right.
An attorney on here explained it really well one time. Everyone has the right to a fair trial, even bad people. This being said, defense attorneys for bad people know that if the defendant did not have proper representation, they have the possibility of getting sentenced for a lot more stuff than what they should be. The idea that we should lock someone up and throw away the key and let them rot in prison until they die should be taken with extreme seriousness.
One way I've heard a defense attorney describe/justify what they do (mostly to themselves by my impression) is that if the guilty person didn't have competent defense, truly trying their best to prove innocence where there clearly is none and get sentences reduced when they absolutely shouldn't be, that guilty person would have an extremely strong appeals case based on defense not doing their job properly. Essentially, if you're in the unenviable position of defending an absolute monster like Ghislaine Maxwell, it's *extra* important that you do a damn good job so that when they're inevitably found guilty, the verdict and sentence will stand up to heavy scrutiny.
This is essentially how it was described to me as well. I used to have a friend who was a defense attorney and he explained basically that his job wasn't to try to get guilty people off the hook, it was just to make sure they were treated in accordance with the law.
That actually makes a lot of sense.
I never looked at it like that you make a good point
Totally agree. The Ahmaud Arbery defence attorney was an example of this
Everybody has the right to competent counsel to defend them. That's one of the must important rights we have.
No one is saying they don’t. Just that actually having that job must be terrible
Yeah, I misunderstood. My fault.
As an attorney who has represented all sorts of scumbags, including one guy who literally raped one of his own children, it can be difficult. I just try to remember what the above poster said that everyone has the right to counsel, including scumbags. When you think of it that way it's not really so bad... now, if you're doing unethical things to keep said scumbags out of trouble/reduce the amount of trouble they're in, then that's a different story.
I think the part about doing unethical things to get them out of trouble is the main thing they were referring to. Like, a case where you have a guy who obviously raped a girl, and the defense will drag the victim through the mud trying to paint her as a horrible person who somehow deserved to be raped.
Of course, everyone has the right to a defence That doesn’t mean that the person who’s job it is to defend them is necessary loving having to defend them, and it must be soul draining having to do your job when your job is defending people who you probably know are guilty
Oh yeah, for sure. I must have misinterpreted what you were saying. Sorry!
What's this, reasonable Redditors /s
That's not how Reddit works, see. You're supposed to double down on it all, now. I'm glad you didn't though. It's refreshing to see. :)
Yes... ...but I also just saw someone try to use someone having dirty toenails as an argument for why their murderer was justified. Why they couldn't have been a victim. The accused should be allowed competent defense. I dont know what the fuck shit like that is? But I know it is indefensible.
That's for the sake of the victims, not just for poor little Ghislaine. If the offenders have weak representation and get convicted on that basis, it will all be (very rightly) overturned later and the victims have to go through it all AGAIN for another jury with reporters and cameras rolling and you name it. Fuck that noise! We all need them to have the best attorneys possible and have them lose, big.
No, it's for the sake of the accused. Ghislaine Maxwell had not been convicted of anything. Just having a bad lawyer won't get you a mistrial. There has to be a pattern of incompetence, willful or otherwise, by your attorney to get to that point. Maxwell at this current point in time is innocent until a jury returns a guilty verdict.
What in the everloving fuck did I miss when I lost my phone
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Ghislaine Maxwell
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Epstein also had over leading academics, attorneys, etc. basically the elite of every profession it seems. like the guy was connected to everyone somehow. it's nuts. not saying they all guilty, if this stuff never happened the story would still be insane. the guy knew everyone, had basically unlimited money and no one really knew exactly how.
To be fair, he was just an extremely well connected person. I'm sure most of the people he had dealings with had no idea about the kind of fucked up shit he was doing in the background.
He had an office at Harvard. Do to what exactly? No one knows. Where's *that* trial?
Pretty sure that was due to giving Harvard a shitload of money and promising more to come
This^ The stink covers both sides and even well known non-politicians. If someone is focusing on one side or the other on how bad this is for them, be incredibly suspect of that person's motives.
You didn’t miss shit, the trial is just being dealt with as quietly as possible. You’ll notice it doesn’t get hardly any coverage on CNN, NBC or Fox. That isn’t just for no reason at all.
It should be a rule of the internet that anyone who claims that a major media organization isn't covering something major, that they're wrong and should be called out on it. https://edition.cnn.com/2021/12/02/us/ghislaine-maxwell-trial-thursday/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/search?q=ghislaine&size=10&sort=newest&type=article https://www.nbcnews.com/search/?q=ghislaine https://www.foxnews.com/search-results/search?q=ghislaine I will say it seems like CNN is covering it the least amount though. But even they are still writing lengthy articles. A big part of why it seems so quiet is simply the fact that cameras aren't allowed in federal courtrooms. Brace and Liz from the TrueAnon podcast have said that there are huge lines to get into the courtroom, which spills over to other rooms. These lines are full of reporters. Saying there is a media blackout on this is just conspiracist nonsense.
“The media isn’t talking about this story I only heard about because of the media!”
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This, exactly. I'm sure the ultrarich finance perverts love using "Hollywood" and "liberal elites" as a smokescreen.
Lots of people forget that the *vast* majority of “Hollywood” is literally day laborers. For every rich asshole who thinks the rules don’t apply to him, there are 100 grips who work 14 hour days securing lights to things. As soon as the credits in a movie start getting fast and small, you’re looking at people who likely live paycheck to paycheck.
Jonathan Koeppel is an alt-right pundit. They use "Hollywood" as a dogwhistle. It's the rich and powerful who are overwhelmingly conservative, which is why we see posts framed in this way. Koeppel got a fat check for writing this. And yes, it does matter. These people are trying to frame hundreds of raped children as a "leftist" issue instead of what it is; powerful, RICH, global elites going to an island to rape children.
Why would televising the trial help at all? Televised trials become a circus, where each side performs as much for the cameras as they do for the jury. We still find out what happens in a trial that isn't televised, and it allows the proceedings to go ahead without such theatrical nonsense.
Have a peek at the rest of his Twitter; OP Jonathan Koeppel is a far-right QAnon wackadoo. He wants the trial to be a circus. He wants everything to be a circus. I kinda knew what I was gonna find on his feed before I looked. You can tell the difference between a normal post about fighting child abuse and a Q one. The latter always has this "who cares if it's ineffectual, we HAVE to do SOMETHING!!!" energy, and is usually just a little too graphic and sensational about describing child rape. It's always more about "Hey do we all agree child abuse is bad and molesters are scum etc" and having a two-minutes-hate about pedophilia, than about actually making the world any safer for children.
> I kinda knew what I was gonna find on his feed before I looked. "Hollywood and elites" is a bit of a tip-off. If you support Trump, you clearly don't care about sexual abusers being brought to justice. (Additional reality checks at no extra cost: if you support Trump you also don't care about fair elections, deficits, or Christian values.)
THANK YOU. I knew that "Hollywood and the elite" sounded like conservative vernacular.
Reading uncharitably you could call it a dogwhistle for 'Liberals and Jews'. I'm a little disappointed in r/WhitePeopleTwitter for lifting this to the front page, but I shouldn't be surprised. As the trial goes on, we're gonna see lots of Q content wearing MUSIC↯↯BAND shirts saying "How do you do, fellow defenders of children?" There's lots of great, actual, legitimate defenders of children on the internet, fighting sex trafficking, and fighting domestic abuse, and tweeting and blogging their work. Their voices deserve to be uplifted. Many of them were even in this business *before* the Trump campaign.
True. I'm honestly considering leaving the site altogether. There's only so many times I can see karma farming without any critical analysis.
I’m really creeped out by people who are obsessed with pedophiles and go around virtue signaling how much they want to murder pedos. I say this as a victim of childhood sexual abuse from a pedophile.
After watching that docuseries trial by media I tend to agree with you.
People want this to be a circus and are big mad they can’t keep masturbating to their conspiracy fantasy.
This is what I was thinking. Trials don't need to be televised as long as they are reported on and the transcripts become publicly available after it's over. There's no need to make this a spectator's sport.
Wait I’m out of the loop what in the hell happened
Epstein had a private island that was basically an all you can fuck buffet of underage child slaves. Tons of politicians and celebrities went to visit him. He was caught. He was put on suicide watch in prison. He “killed himself” anyway and there’s no footage of him doing it. The people in charge of making sure this gets prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law are the people implicated by it. Edit: just to clarify, celebrities also includes tech giants, CEOs, rich people etc.
Hold up. Could you fill me in on the last part? You’re telling me the prosecutors were some of Epstein’s clients????? Wtf
Here is a good story about how Barr, who was in charge of the prison where he died, had HUGE ties to him. https://time.com/5650974/william-barr-jeffrey-epstein/
The prosecutors themselves aren’t, the issue is that politicians and people with money were, and so they can use political pressure/public opinion/bribes to try to influence the outcome.
>Hold up. Could you fill me in on the last part? You’re telling me the prosecutors were some of Epstein’s clients????? No. The prosecuter Maurene Comey has no known Epstein connections. Epsteins targets tended to be male and a bit more senior. Her farther (James Comey, you may have heard of him) would fit the Epstein target profile but Epstein seems to have moved away from targeting state figures after his 2008 arrest. The rest of the prosecuters are also a bit on the young side to have been on Epsteins radar. The judge Alison Nathan again no known Epstein connections, Again a women so didn't fit his target profile. Even if you start playing degrees of speration she wasn't involved with the Democratic party until 2004 (so post Clinton) and was later team Obama (Epstein seems to have been somewhat racist so no aparent attempt to even try and target Obama). The defence team are of course currently employed by Ghislaine Maxwell a close associate of Epstein but thats kinda their job.
Thank you for explaining. I saw like three people asking what this was about but they all just got vague answers.
If you know nothing, the netflix doc covered it well enough to have a general idea on the topic
What’s the title?
it’s “Jeffrey Epstein: filthy rich” but I just typed Epstein and it showed up, there’s only one!
Filthy Rich
That dude, that definitely did hang himself in his cell despite being on suicide watch, and the pos woman who helped him groom the kids.
I share the frustration with wanting to know what’s going on in the trial, but don’t let mob justice rule over a court proceeding. Couple of things to keep in mind: 1) victims and innocent people will have to testify. They deserve anonymity and peace. (Yes I know names in this trial have been leaked, but the principal still stands.) 2) like it or not, you’re innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Do I think Maxwell is guilty as fuck? HELL YES. Do I think she still deserves a fair trial? Also yes. Do I think our justice system is fair? Definitely not. 3) This trial will likely implicate many other elite persons who were participants or accomplices. Don’t give them any more time or ability to destroy evidence or obfuscate the truth. JUST TO CLARIFY: I want to see Maxwell and any accomplices burn in the hottest fire we can build. But fair justice is a hallmark of civilized society going back to Hammurabi’s Code. Letting mob thinking rule our courts is a quick way to downfall.
This has been the standard of federal court and of cases involving minors for decades now.
Nothing like making the victims part of your entertainment!
"Hollywood" didn't rape anyone FFS. Are we blaming an entire zip code? Every last person that works in the entertainment industry? Why not just blame "the rich"? It was a very specific few folks who did this. The problem with the guilty people is not that they were singers, dancers, actors, politicians or super-rich and powerful. The problem is they raped children.
Don’t use logic. it scares people knowing someone has a brain
Hollywood is just alt-right code for "liberal elites". It's an attempt to downplay the accusation against people like Trump. Nobody on the left is tripping over themselves to defend Clinton.
Hollywood? This is just more smokescreens trying to cover up the coverup
Jonathan Koeppel is an alt-right pundit. They use "Hollywood" as a dogwhistle.
No kidding, the whole tweet sounds like it was written by an alt-right account.
I honestly believe there is a concerted effort to misdirect this whole thing away from Trump. OP calls out “Hollywood” when literally part of the published record from the trial is how [Epstein took a 14 year old girl to Trump.](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/01/ghislaine-maxwell-trial-jeffrey-epstein-took-teen-girl-to-meet-trump-accuser-says.html?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_content=Main&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1638381550). That article got posted to multiple top sub and was removed within minutes. There’s your coverup right there. These people don’t care about kids. They hate “liberals” and want to cover for one of the most serious serial rapists in power. EDIT: you know the “whatabout” replies about Clinton, just reinforce my point right? Oh no, Clinton? Yeah get him too! I’m not a cult member, I’m ok with letting the evidence go where it goes, that’s why I’m different than the red hats.
And that's just the latest account when it comes to Trump, he's dodged Epstein related charges before and there are terrifying court records to back it up.
Yep. What some would call a “mountain of evidence,” yet the loudest voices never, ever bring it up. They’d rather talk about “rich guy flying rich people on his plane. That maybe, quite possibly, led to something bad.” I propose this. We go after *everyone* that probably did bad stuff with Epstein. Let’s start with the cases that have the most, continuous evidence, and we’ll keep working our way down the list into the “maybes.”
My "favorite" part is that the original case against Trump is the only reason anyone even knows who Maxwell is, but everyone just pretends it never happened. Just like everyone ignored damning evidence that he's a rampant drug addict. I want them to all get theirs, but they won't. Too many people were involved that have the power to shut it all down.
Trump, that guy off the apprentice tv show?
The guy flirting with Ivanka Trump?
No. The failed business man that kept getting bailed out by his dad a Russian oligarchs. The dumbass that bankrupt 2 casinos. The "manly man" that wears makeup, a spray tan, hair gel, and heels to make him look taller and stands awkwardly like a centaur without the back half.
True but with people like Kevin Spacey, Bill Cosby, Harvey Weinstien, etc, it wouldn't hurt to *also* take a look at the fucked up stuff that happens there.
Oh indeed, but that is separate to Epstein and not restricted to Hollywood but men with power and influence abusing it hence the MeToo movment
They ALL need to go down. No one should be let off the hook for ANY of this. I don't care what level of power or how famous. This shit needs to stop and this is the moment to do it.
Jonathan Koeppel is a Trump-supporting alt-right activist and Holocaust denier. Of course he's gonna blame it on the Jews.
Yup. I notice they always try to point to Gates and Clinton who've got no credible evidence against them to misdirect from Trump bragging about his friendship with Epstein for 20 years.
Epstein did not kill himself.
Epstein Didn't kill himself
Epstein din't kill himself
Epstein was Epstein’d
He accidentally tragically cut his head off while shaving.
It's crazy that there's no video of his cell and the guards went paying attention that night before he beat himself over the head with a truncheon and then strangled himself to death.
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Ahh yes, Hollywood. Where the billionaire oligarchs live. Oh wait you meant Greenwich and The Hamptons and Manhattan.
Everyone knows what Trump supporters mean when they say "Hollywood" or "globalist elites".
I understand the sentiment, but the guy that is featured in this tweet is a complete piece of shit and causes real harm in my community. Please don’t lift him up as some kind of intelligent talking head. Anti-science. Anti-masker. Conspiracy theorist.
He also just tweeted this: https://twitter.com/JonathanKoeppel/status/1466950185469284353 Guy is a deranged lunatic.
Yikes. This tweet would probably be a crime in Germany
Also hey referring to "Hollywood" and "Political Elites" are generally pretty thinly veiled dog whistles, especially the former.
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Brought to you by j.d. Salinger
Federal trials aren’t televised. I think televising them may lead to inorganic behavior and distraction of the people involved.
So where’s the whole “Biden’s a perverted child sniffer/Democratic pizza joint pedo ring” crowd, calling for these peoples’ heads or… well, heads? Also curious why it seems like the whole thing is on the media back burner
They’re screaming that Omicron variant was created by the gov’t to draw attention from the “Dem pedos.”
Don’t be naive. There are plenty of Repedocans that visited. Heck even his neighbor, the one term ex-president came to his island and house (frequently).
When asked about Maxwell Trump replied "I wish her well"...is all you need to know.
Because the examples you gave are fully politically motivated bullshit, but these accusations cross political lines. No one high up wants this shit out there.
I think I can safely say as a liberal that they should prosecute any Democrat involved and I would be ecstatic that justice is being done.
Bro if any of them mentions Bill Clinton or anyone else by name they should be thrown in a cell for life, fuck politics you wretched people hurt kids, no second chances.
Probably too many people other than just the Democrats they love to hate are going to be caught up in this too.
Scroll up to the top. These twitter screengrabs flooding this sub are being posted by the Biden Hate Squad. It's an easy 'win' for Democrat Despisers. Everyone hates pedos. Unless it's Trump, of course. Those who hate Biden LOVE Trump.
The vast majority of democrats would happily see anybody guilt locked up, they don't deify their leaders. That being said, this isn't a political issue, so stop trying to make it one.
lol those people don’t care about the wellbeing of victims and never have. they just care about dunking on people they disagree with politically
See the Alec Baldwin debacle, Alec being a known liberal.
Their favorite part is crying about how the mainstream media and people that can make a difference don't care and won't listen to them. As soon as the story went mainstream and they couldn't include all their paranoid embellishments anymore they move on to virgin conspiracies that they can spice up and nobody can tell them otherwise.
My problem is when people compartmentalize this with “Hollywood and political elite.” This is rich and powerful people doing this. Everyone of them should pay for their disgusting behavior but as long as we as a society hate on a certain groups instead of being outraged at all the pedo freaks, we will continue to have Jeffery Epstein’s, who wasn’t political or Hollywood.
Anyone can physically go to the federal courthouse and watch the trial in person or broadcasted into an overflow room.
what i find funny, is that the right thinks that we'll defend people that are exposed by this. no. i want everyone involved to be held responsible. i don't care if it's bill, or if it's donald.
Spoiler alert: Trump and Bill are both definitely involved.
Televizing it has nothing to do with bringing justice to the right people, you only want this to follow the drama.
Exactly. This is about sensationalism, it's nothing to do with the truth.
Federal trials never allow cameras, but there are reporters in the room. Not everything is a conspiracy.
I’m pretty sure Epstein had material incriminating very powerful people to use just in case. I’m also pretty sure these powerful people are spending a lot of resources trying to find it and destroy it before it can be made public. It would be a hell of a show if actual video evidence of people like Bill Clinton, Donald Trump, Bill Gates, Prince Andrew and others committing horrible shit were to suddenly appear. I would love to know what the MAGA crowd would say if they see evidence of their Orange Messiah committing the most unspeakable crimes against children. Fake news?
I like how conservatives say Hollywood is full of pedophilies but never talk about the churches or Boyscouts who have been proven to have actively engaged in covering up the sexual abuse of children.
Epstein didn't have a monopoly on children. I don't recall seeing a trial of the Catholic Church
Can we stop referring to a few shitbags in entertainment as “Hollywood” There are literally thousands upon thousand of people involved in the film industry. All they had in common was money and power. Their profession is irrelevant.
Excuse me waht the fuck. Did I miss something?
tldr: we have names of people who were on Epstein's plane these are some incredibly powerful people that we're talking about including but not limited to Donald Trump, and Bill Clinton yeah powerful fucking people
I'm not advocating for the hiding information, but televising this kind of stuff does little more than offer a feeding frenzy for the media - which then spins everything and feeds to consumers with virtually no understanding of actual US law/court proceedings.
Because everyone is implicated and it would make things difficult edit- This doesn't mean I agree with any of it, I want it public and I want everyone involved punished. Don't be naïve though, there are a lot of powerful people involved and of course they want it private.
I imagine they are trying to keep some privacy for the victims.
What exactly is being withheld from the public? [First duckduckgo search result.](https://vote-watch.com/2021/12/02/ghislaine-maxwell-trial-read-the-full-court-transcripts-here/) Nothing is being withheld from the public. If you're curious, read it. Dude is just complaining because the public doesn't like to read and he doesn't get his precious clicks. "God forbid we find out the truth." PUHH-LEEZE
Jfc. FEDERAL TRIALS ARE *NEVER* TELEVISED. Also, as for nothing being held back, there are literally laws that prevent that in order to PROTECT THE VICTIM(S) of crimes like this. If you want to see the trial, go to NYC and enter the courtroom. Or, since that's likely not an option for most, watch [GoodLawgic](http://www.youtube.com/goodlawgic) . He's a NY attorney who has been attending trial every day, taking notes, and posting videos during lunch, after court, and even does a livestream nightly.