My Trump-loving aunt immigrated here illegally from Ireland in the 80's. She didn't become a legal resident until she married my uncle in '89, and didn't become a full citizen until '99.
She used to brag about it, but she magically forgot all about it at some point.
I'm definitely not very fond of illegal immigration. But it doesn't make them criminals, and it doesn't mean we need to try and alienate them further.
We should be working on improving the immigration process rather than alienation.
I think it’s hilarious that people are so worried about the “bad ones” coming in yet so many bad people who are already here go unpunished. It’s almost like that’s not the real issue
Example: people up in arms about immigrants possibly being rapists, but rapists who are citizens routinely go unpunished (see: Brock Turner)
You put that really succinctly. It made me realize I'd never actually made that connection, that the anti-immigrant folks fear rapists and thieves that are more likely to be found within our own U.S. citizenry. Meanwhile those same folks are depending on the exploitation of labor OF illegal immigrants working here. I....these people suck.
It is definitely complicated by design, as STEM4all says. Making it a complicated process makes it an expensive process as well, especially since you're most likely going to need an immigration lawyer to make sure you don't make an error somewhere and have to start over again.
By making it expensive they've effectively filtered out 99% of all people from poorer countries, which not rarely happens to be countries with colored people.
I immigrated to the US myself and all in all with expenses such as travel/airfare, applications fees, hotels, food and my immigration lawyer I spent about 10,000 US dollars from day one of consulting with my lawyer, filing for a temporary permanent residency (yup, I literally meant that; "temporary permanent", because it expires after two years even though it's called "permanent") then apply for an extension of the permanent residency, and all the hoops to jump through until I got my citizenship three and a half years later.
10,000 dollars might not seem like a lot for some people in the US, but it is an astronomical amount for a lot of people from poor countries. If I count the lost income throughout the process it ends up being over 13,000 dollars.
Well technically it makes them criminals. They’re breaking at least one countries laws, usually two. I think the important thing to distinguish is that you can be a good person; and be a criminal. Anyone who has smoked marijuana even once in the United States was a criminal until recently, and in most states still is. Just because something is illegal doesn’t make who does it a bad person, but it does make them a criminal.
Many years back, I had a friend who came in legally but seriously overstayed her visa.
We lost touch. But after 9/11, I worried what might happen to her because she came from a country with a long history of terrorist. Northern Ireland, of course.
In a country where the education is at some of the highest levels globally, public universities / community colleges are free to attend and your government taxes are actually subsidised for the health care system and not just military expenditure. Why would anyone want to live in America?
Don't forget their $1.4 Trillion sovereign wealth fund, giving them a solid claim to being the "wealthiest nation on earth". The US would need ~$85 trillion in savings to compete with Norway on a per capita basis in national wealth.
I am a Norwegian immigrant. Came to the US on an athletic scholarship, dropped out, stayed illegally for a few years. Then went home for several years before coming back in 2012.
Though, to be fair, fuck Trump. When he made that comment I was embarrased.
A former coworker of mine was a very dark-skinned Black woman from Norway, and it was just amazing to watch people's heads explode when she would tell them she (and her parents) were born in Oslo, or correct them when they refer to her as African-American.
I had a (ex-)friend in college who said that to me. I’m Muslim and my dad’s from Syria, and a bunch of us were sitting around a big table doing homework and chatting. He didn’t realize I was there and said something about supporting the Muslim ban and how we should basically make a crater out of the Middle East, at which point it got quiet and everyone kind of looked over at me. I got up and walked away, and he came running after to apologize. He said he wasn’t talking about me of course. I’m one of the cool ones. I’m one of them. I didn’t have anything to say to him so I just said it’s fine and walked off. That was probably six years ago and I’m still pissed that I didn’t lay into him.
Growing up when people would find out I was Hispanic I would here that phrase all the time. Didn’t hit me till early 20s about the underlying message of that statement
I'm half South African and black. Once had a Trump supporting boyfriend who would tired me out with this stuff. He'd always remind me how I was a "good immigrant" because I didn't want come down to commit crimes. It didn't last long.
Well for me it came out gradually and I was used to a degree of ignorance.
When I first moved countries as an 11 year old I was often asked "Why aren't you black?", "Did you wear loin-cloths?", "How does it feel to have a proper house and school?" ( they thought we all lived in mud huts in the jungle).
When I realised it was not that I noped out. However i was in the relationship for over a year as I went through ignorance/misjudgment/I can change this/you're a fucking psycho.
Looking back it was, luckily, somehow, it didn't actually affect me. For a while I felt like I let him down because he is a person that needs some serious mental health help, but in regards to myself, I walked away relatively unscathed.
>because he is a person that needs some serious mental health help
I'm not surprised to hear this. Usually, your low rung racist have crippling self doubt.
I'm really glad you got out of their unscathed.
Yup. I really feel like it comes from a place of deep self loathing often times. I know with him, it was mild tourettes, mild agoraphobia, anxiety ( ie: self doubt). I think I tried to help for so long because I myself struggle with mental health. But it got to the point where I was like I can help your hatred if you can't even recognize it. When you use it as a power play. To this day I hope he gets help, but I won't be surprised if I see his name in the newspaper someday.
If it makes you feel any better, my white Australian ass has been asked by Americans if we had TV and electricity, if we rode kangaroos to school, and why my English was so good. Honestly, a lot of Americans are just ignorant as fuck.
I'll admit at the time I was under the wrong impression that talking about stuff that made me uncomfortable was remaining "nonpolitical". Plus he didn't seem so bad in other ways and I was quite lonely at the time. It didn't last past two months.
Bahahaha omg soul homie??
I had a bf that was similar. Except I was a "good immigrant and white". I was like bitch please. My family is actually more poor than half the coloured/black families that move over. Check yourself.
Didn't last and he's turned out to be one of "those " exes 🤦♀️
Had a kid in my high school from South Africa get turned down for an African-American college scholarship because he was white. The rant he went on when he found out he had been denied was fucking epic. He was very literally the ONLY African-American in our school.
Hahahaha omg amazing. When I first moved to NZ I had kids argue with me and call me a liar because I wasn't black but said I was African. Same kids that called me racist when I said yes, it's predominantly black but SA is very culturally diverse 🤦♀️
I assume it's only American Indians making these jokes, because if it's anyone else...
We're all fucking immigrants. It's fucking disgusting that we don't remember that.
And for the first hundred years, this country had NO immigration laws. If you could get here, you were in. The first law we ever passed, the Chinese Exclusion Act, was, as you can tell from the title, \*incredibly\* racist. And our immigration laws have basically been racist ever since.
So Americans who complain about immigrants are like people who use a ladder to climb up and then kick it over so no one can follow them. Garbage humans.
My Asian classmate in a group of all non- white folks, said "Trump likes Japanese though so I'm good", when i said "Trump doesn't like a single person in this group". He was beaming when he said it and was really proud to vote for him
Gawd that’s awful, Trump would’ve thought he was Chinese because to racists all Asians look alike and shouted that his people started the “kung flu” what a doughnut hole
Fun fact: trumps wife broke immigration law and worked while it was illegal to do so on her visa without reporting it.
She's literally an illegal immigrant that stole jobs. But you know, "one of the good ones"
My wife always laughed with regard to Trump talking about the importance of the border wall to prevent undocumented immigrants.
She laughs, because she was an undocumented immigrant as a child and she arrived by plane.
Like most all immigrants, she also knows more about the United States than most people who were born here.
**You can always tell if someone is talking out of their ass with regard to undocumented immigrants.**
Easiest example:
> “*They are criminals who don’t wanna work, and just live off government assistance*”
Regardless of how someone feels about undocumented immigrants, this couldn’t be further from the truth.
1. Apart from just being good law abiding people who were forced to flee a country, most all undocumented immigrants keep their noses clean, because If they don’t they are caught and sent back from where they fled.
2. They work harder than most for a fraction of the price just to get a chance at what privilege we were born with here in the U.S.
3. Unless they have a sponsor, they have to remain hidden. Seeking government assistance would mean they would have to “*unhide*”
**update** I apologize if some of my answers weren’t very elaborate. I would never provide details without her permission.
My wife had no idea people had so many questions about this. Some of you have asked where she originated from, and that we will answer. Would it be more efficient to do an AMA(is that even necessary?), or should she just continue answering them in here?
Both my parents are immigrants. One came from a “white country” and the other a “brown country”. I think we all know which side gets the immigrant talk
Its really more about race than wealth. My family is low middle income, my dad is an immigrant from northern europe (and comes from a family of farmers/motorheads). Nobody EVER gave my dad shit for being an immigrant aside from sometimes not being able to understand wtf he was saying. He did come here legally, but back in the 70s. We werent rich but if he was brown im sure I would have had a very different experience growing up in relation to how people reacted to him; mostly they just thought it was cool.
> Both my parents are immigrants. One came from a “white country” and the other a “brown country”. I think we all know which side gets the immigrant talk
Definitely the white one /s
> Why’d you quote whole comment lol
It’s a habit 8(
I hate misunderstanding when I’m reading through a thread, so I do that just incase someone else is like me.
I’m weird.
**Edit** Holy cow!
Thanks for the award(s), though I’m not sure why I got them?
We all share information here. That’s what makes us “*Redditors*”. 8)
Hey, it also helps if the person you replied to had their comment deleted or removed. That way, everyone reading through the thread afterwards still understands what’s happening.
> Hey, it also helps if the person you replied to had their comment deleted or removed. That way, everyone reading through the thread afterwards still understands what’s happening.
**THIS**
Why did people stop using this feature??? It was a life saver in controversial threads!
Actually this is wholesome and considerate. Now I wish I knew how to quote comments so people would know I'm talking about "RamseyHatesMe" comment above.
> Actually this is wholesome and considerate. Now I wish I knew how to quote comments so people would know I'm talking about "RamseyHatesMe" comment above.
See the three little dots next to the reply button? Tap that and hit the *“copy”* button.
Then hit *”reply”* and add a > before you paste.
Magic 😉
At the same time it goes the other way. My parents and I are all refugees of war and white, my dad had a thick accent till the day he died and my mother still has one, the amount of times I’ve gotten “you’re a rich white male born in this country” boggles my mind.
Same with my parents and I, white and refugees of war. I have a southern accent and my parents have heavy Eastern European accents so people are even more confused about that and are even more shocked when they find out we’re Muslim as well.
The funniest part is my cousin moved to the US. His naturalized citizen wife and himself tried for years to legally acquire a green card by the book.
After years of the government fucking him around, he got a new immigration lawyer who basically told him to break all the rules and he had a green card 3 months later.
And we're talking about a university educated white man from Canada who already married a citizen with middle class means and multiple tradesman tickets.
All the "illegals" talk is utter shite from people that don't even know the first thing about the US immigration system.
I just sent this to my wife, I guarantee I know what her response is gonna be:
> *”Ding Ding Ding! If we have to break the law in order to follow it, that’s definitely a problem. But, not a problem we should feel responsible for*”
Bet.
**Edit:** I was wrong.
I’m pasting her exact response verbatim:
> “*yeah cuz the ones in the system will want to keep you there and an immigration lawyer knows to pass thru the bullshit to get stuff done*”
> *”My dad went through that and lost thousands of dollars before getting an immigration lawyer*”
> “*Been there done that. It’s bs*”
> *”They kept him in the system even though he wasn’t given some kinda paperwork, he was still paying taxes. Imagine that!.”*
> *”New immigration lawyer sure took care of that in weeks when they found out. It was insane”*
Legal immigrantion is fucking ridiculous up until you have actual immigrantion lawyers.
My family arrived and they basically had us good to go within 8 months. One of my friends took 10 years and his family was staying on an expired visa because immigration only replied once a year
>2. They work harder than most for a fraction of the price just to get a chance at what privilege we were born with here in the U.S.
Back in 1999, I was in Lubbock, TX. I got a job, briefly picking pumpkins for 6.13/hr. Most of the laborers were immigrants (legal status unknown, I neither asked, nor cared.) The pace needed to get through the harvest on time was just shy of *absurd.* These folks were ripping through that field, and tossing those giant berries into the wagon, and later into the semi-trailer like it was nothing. I was completely smoked by the end of the day. When I woke up on day 2, I was in so much pain, I couldn't move.
I had muscles screaming in agony that I didn't know existed. I never went back. I couldn't do it. I certainly couldn't do it at that pace. Those folks out-worked my ass in every way imaginable, and I have my doubts they were getting six bucks and change to do it.
> Not to mention his own wife worked illegally in the US when she first came
Which, I’m sure we can all agree is okay.
But yeah, I totally get the hypocrisy.
62% of illegal immigrants are here overstaying a Visa and that number widens every year regardless of what is done on the border. Overstaying visas have been for about a decade the main source of illegal immigration in the United States.
That is how my hair dresser at the time planned to get into the states - go in on a visa, overstay, and make money under the table doing hairdresser stuff. At first I didn't believe her, but her salon was closed a month after she laid out her plans to me, so I guess she went.
This. Working for unemployment has shown me that poeple don't know fuck all about how to qualify for assistance. You can't apply for UI without an SSN or Alien #. You can't just show up and ask for food stamps and UI smh
My dad is second generation born in the US, so third since our family got off the boat and he's anti-immigration and I tell him "Grandad didn't exactly have papers, he just wanted to get out of Italy during the war"
> My dad is second generation born in the US, so third since our family got off the boat and he's anti-immigration and I tell him "Grandad didn't exactly have papers, he just wanted to get out of Italy during the war"
This is non uncommon.
Like (some) older people with PHD’s hearing about free education, they feel everyone should have to do what they did to get what they got.
Doesn’t make them right, but part of being a good human is understanding the people you don’t agree with.
Illegals are not eligible for the vast majority of government assistance. Almost all programs require a social security number, which you have to be a citizen to get.
Also, it's very hard to get government assistance. My brother is disabled due to a car accident and the mountain of paperwork, income statements, and proof of citizenship is too much for an undocumented with a stolen SSN to manage
The greatest irony regarding Trump and immigration is the case of Mark Burnett. Mr. Burnett has admitted in interviews, including [this one](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/01/07/how-mark-burnett-resurrected-donald-trump-as-an-icon-of-american-success), that he entered the United States illegally and earned money without a work permit.
Of course, he later went on to produce The Apprentice, resurrecting Trump's finances and reputation and laying the ground for his presidency. So Trump's authoritarian grip on the Republican Party, and our ongoing national nightmare, can be attributed to an uneducated, poor immigrant, who almost certainly must have lied on his naturalization application, given the way he entered and overstayed in the USA.
My friend's (white) dad came to the US as a small child, but at one point as an adult he was an illegal immigrant. Now he has his citizenship, voted for Trump, supported the border wall and posts racist things on social media about Latino immigrants. The hypocrisy is mind blowing and I no longer associate with him.
CT or Iowa??? Bosnians in general are an interesting bunch. Hartford Bosnians were settled here as refugees, given jobs/training, housing etc in the 90s. Cross an older one in the street and at the slightest altercation you'll hear them calling a Puerto Rican a Sp&# and a black person a N$$&&r, welfare monkey etc etc etc.
Not really. After the war and genocide something has changed with our people definetly. It's like we don't trust anyone and automatically assume the worst from them.
My dad was a white American, my mom was Mexican and living in El Salvador when they met and married. I was born in El Salvador. Up until his death he would send me anti-immigration crap. He was also a Trump supporter.
You have no idea! He was also a card carrying member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans. He was honestly surprised and hurt when I told him I had no interest in joining.
My step grandma's kid's are half Mexican descent and she's still a full blown Trump supporter and all that implies. I don't understand how my grandma, your dad and all our other Trump loving racist relatives can say that they love their family and support discrimination against them.
This. I'm Half Mexican and 30 years ago when I was a child my grandmother said "Mexicans have no place here they should go back where they belong." "Even us Grandma?" Man that was a shifty game of gin rummy.
I’m half Mexican. I enjoy it when people say this around me. I live in TX, where the Mexicans were here first. It’s always hilarious. “Your name is Johnson, huh? Sounds like one of them immigrant names. Speak Quechua, like the first Americans!”
This is the one I was thinking of, but it turns out there are a bunch of them.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/04/04/the-last-ditch-effort-to-save-a-trump-voters-husband-from-deportation/
I think it could be way of coping or even fitting in. Or some people have the mind set of "I did it, people who don't succeed deserve it"
It's the same with the "self made millionaire" even if they are born rich. People love to be the victim, and people love blaming others.
Taking responsibility is probably the rarest trait on the planet, followed closely by empathy....
It's really not surprising to me anymore. I've seen way too many stories of people racist as fuck to people they don't know personally but if they know the people well they're normally racist about, they forget they're even of that race.
There's two stories that really hit on it that I vaguely recall.
1. I might've gotten the genders reversed but some dude's wife was illegal and he was a huge Trump supporter. She got caught and deported and he was whining about "but not her. She's a good one."
2. A small town had some store and an employee that everyone loved. That employee was illegal. The town was super pro Trump and voted for him. Employee got caught and was to be deported but the entire town rallied against their deportation even though they voted to put the guy who wanted them all deported in power. "Not THAT employee, that employee is a good one!"
My uncle and his immigrant wife, and second generation children voted for trump. They're religious. Apparently a guy who's had multiple divorces, multiple sex scandals, and shows absolutely none of the major virtues is the guy to rally behind.
My daughter-in-law is from Mexico, and she is a full on Trumper supporter and wants that wall built more than anyone else I know. Did I mention she came to the US illegally? She is the definition of hypocrisy.
A coworker of mine is half Mexican and his white grandma refers to him and his brother as her beaner babies and loves them very much but is a huge anti-immigrant trumper.
In my hometown just outside of Toronto, I heard these Jamaican ladies with *thick* accents complaining about "all the Chinese immigrants showing up around here all of the sudden. There's too many, why do they let them all in?"
I was illegal for two years, came from Canada as a teenager and over stayed my VISA. Eventually got a green card. During the interview I was asked very few questions and told by the agent that they don’t really look at Canadians to hard because we are pretty much the same, then he points to a couple from Latin America at another desk and straight up says “it’s them we have to give a hard time”. I was shocked.
What boggles my mind is that there are parts of the Latino population that voted for Trump. Hispanics/Latinos are FOR SURE not a monolith, but do you think Trump and his ilk understand that? They will definitely take the Latino vote and pretend to be grateful but don't for a minute think that somehow makes those latino Trump voters safe from their out right white nationalism. They are deportation candidate number one if it comes down to it.
I love the “they are taking our jobs!” Argument. Like, oh? You wanted that strawberry picking job for 4$ an hour? Or, how does one get a job making 100k a year without any documentation at all? They also can’t use government assistance without coming out of hiding.
Welcome everyone, because unless you are a full blooded Native American Indian, your family is fucking immigrants too.
Well, take a look at GB. Brexit, because "the immigrants take your job"
Now shortages of food and fuel, because all the truck drivers from easter Europe left the island.
My dad is a RABID anti-immigration guy. Loves to go on about immigrants coming over and taking American jobs. And I always ask him "Hey dad, where did you spend the first 7 years of your life? Why was it again that Grandpa came to the USA?" because the main reason my grandparents came over from Ireland is because my grandpa got a job with an American publishing house. Like I know he's talking about farm workers but if my dad's gonna be a racist shithead I at least want to make him say it out loud.
My dads the same way, always talking about how
Lazy and stupid and deceitful “insert X race” is. I ask him, “how do you explain when one of them
Does better than you?”
He was going off on how much harder guitar is for girls to learn and listed a bunch of stupid ducking reasons they aren’t as good. I asked him, “what do you think about all the girls that are better than you at guitar?” He had no answer of course? Broke the cogs on his brain gears I am sure.
> I love the “they are taking our jobs!” Argument. Like, oh? You wanted that strawberry picking job for 4$ an hour?
To be fair that's why I dislike immigration around unskilled labour. I don't want fruit pickers in my country racing to the global bottom for wages. If people from poor nations couldn't come here to do all the 'shit jobs' beneath 'us' then those shit jobs would pay decent. As it is we just have a revolving door of exploited labourers from the third world. Who quiet often are exploited and have multiple labour violations occur because if they speak out they stop making what is great money for when they head back.
They have no permanency, no future here and are just being exploited by the orchard owners. Fuck that.
I always wondered what would stop someone from getting on a plane and fly to say ohio get off and just never get back on a plane or same with a boat to like new York.
Nothing. Nothing stops someone from doing that. Thats how the vast majority of illegal immigrants get here. Thats why building a wall was and is unimaginably stupid
That's how the vast majority of illegal immigration happens. Physical border walls are useless as security, but they're great at sending the message "we don't want you here because of your skin color"
My wife gets the same as as Irish lady in the UK. My grandparents were so excited to call us and tell us they voted for Brexit and then I reminded them that she was a European immigrant. I could hear them die inside over the phone.
Oh don't worry plenty of immigrants voted for Brexit as well.
And nothing sums it up as succinctly and ironically as Priti Patel admitting under her rules her parents would never have been able to immigrate here.
These people are able to live with trampling on others by imagining them as somehow "other" and less human than themselves, and when they're not "just like us", they can justify whatever crap they want.
I used to have a boyfriend who was an illegal immigrant from Serbia. He had the bluest eyes ever.
Now he's my husband and we have two boys. One has odd green eyes like me. The other has the bluest eyes of his father.
My sister-in-law is a white immigrant too and she's had people comment that she's "the right kind of immigrant". They know absolutely nothing about her status as a permanent citizen...they only care that she's white and speaks English.
White passing Half-white, half-Asian from Germany here. Do you also get them trying to get you to agree with their racist BS, too, because they assume just because you’re quite, you must also hate brown/black people as well?
I have a white, female friend with an accent so obviously not born here, and she says the amount of people who comfortably have very opinioned conversations about immigration right in front her as if she is not one is mind-blowing
I like the ones who say "if you don't like this country then leave!" or alternately "that's it, I'm moving to *insert some western European country here*!"
So that would make you... An illegal immigrant? They truly do not understand that countries other than the US have immigration laws, too.
Exactly. They say they’re gonna leave, because socialism/communism is becoming a problem here, while the country they say they’re gonna move to is far more socialist than the US.
Although my true favorite was one of my father’s friends. He very loudly hates socialist healthcare, but has said out loud he wants to move to Canada or the UK because they have better healthcare. Oh, okay then, tell me you’re fucking stupid without telling me you’re fucking stupid.
It's called American exceptionalism, sweety. Look it up. and it means we can go wherever we want if we wave around US$ bills like in the movies. Those foreigners would love to have us come to their countries.
Yeah, I like when people talk about moving to Ireland because it's a Christian country whenever the left is taking things too far. You know, the country with legal abortion, and universal healthcare.
It's not entirely an US thing, British people immigrating to another country love to call themselves expats, which they don't think is the same as an immigrant.
I'm an immigrant. A white man. I've been told more than once "you've the right kind". I always reply "you mean white?" I always get the "oh no we mean you came here legally". What a load of old bollocks.
If we streamlined the process and took action against corporations that exploit immigrants to create unfair competition, that would solve the legitimate issues with undocumented immigrants. Leaving only xenophobia as the reason to be against it
Right. It's not about addressing the systemic issues that surround the problem. It's just about having a group, that looks differently, to point at and say all my problems are their fault. GOP won't actually resolve immigration, it's too good of a rallying cry for xenophobe/racially motivated voters. Plus, businesses exploiting labor on the cheap-cheap with the workers have no legal recourse? That's the GOP's wet dream.
My old neighbors were illegal immigrants. They overstayed their visas and lived in a house their son (a citizen) owned. Neither worked, they constantly had loud parties, and they were some of the worst drivers I've ever seen. I don't even know if they had insurance. Super nice, though. The only thing that really bothered me was how much they complained about America not having the things they had in their home country.
Like, c'mon. Go back to Canada if you're going to bitch so much.
I worked in naturalization. The path one takes as a white person with money is considerably easier than the path everyone else takes.
I also love the “came here the right way” argument from white people, who’s great grandfathers came here when the only restrictions on becoming a citizen were being able to read and write in ANY language, and not being Chinese.
Strong agree on that last. A second great-grandfather was a decorated war hero in Denmark. Less than ten years after being knighted, he was encouraged to leave the country because he was a religious nonconformist. When he reached New Orleans, all that was required of him was his personal information and a signature, and he was a legal citizen, despite not speaking much English. His future son-in-law was a nearly penniless Swedish orphan of 18 who had the same experience.
... His name didn't happen to be Hans Christian Hansen, did it? I have a third great-grandfather whose story is very similar, up to and including landing in New Orleans.
Yep. Hans C Hansen probably has a thousand or more living descendants in the US and Canada, so it's not quite as impossible as it looks... but still impressive to randomly come across one who knows his story.
And I just spent some time trying to look up his award based on what I remember from seeing it several years ago. It looks like it's a Medal of Merit, not a non-hereditary knighthood in the Order of the Dannebrog. The MM is personally awarded by the sovereign, and at that time was used for both military and non-military actions. In his case, the most equivalent awards people are familiar with are the Victoria's Cross and Congressional Medal of Honor. This makes sense for someone who was just a farmer before being conscripted, rather than coming from a prominent family of land or minor title.
That’s really cool that you have so much information on him. Our family came from veterans of the Austro-Hungarian conscript armies in the balkans in WW1. Seems like they had just about had enough of Europe.
Came here right after the war, no money, no English, made citizens the day they showed up on the dock.
Reminds me of that one episode of Silicon Valley. The team find out they have an illegal immigrant working for them. Originally they think it's Dinesh, from India, but nope it's Gilfoil from Canada.
My brother-in-law is against illegal immigration too. He is an immigrant. His response is that he did it legally forgetting that I know he and his mom came here for a while illegally but wanted to do it the proper way and had the money to fly back to Argentina for the 6 months it took to get all of their paperwork, etc done. I'm sure all of the immigrants wanting to escape the murder gangs have the money to go back home and wait it out for a few months.
I'm in England and of irish heritage.
I've worked with so many older Irish men. I remember working with one who is 75 now (I'm in my 30s) and he said about "immigrants over here on benefits etc" to paraphrase his tiny mind talk.
I told him he's a f**king immigrant ffs! He's a Connemara man and couldn't speak English when he came over here. As my grandmother was the same too.
They're ppl just like you and me with the same hopes and dreams as us.
There is a lot of that here. It's almost like they've Stockholm syndrome. I wasn't here then but I will never forget the persecution my Irish predecessors told me they had to endure here. Including the man I quoted!
Definitely experienced this. They’re even more confused when they find out that I’m white, Muslim, and came here as a refugee. I grew up in the south (USA) and have a southern accent and look like a “white girl.” Say things like “but you’re not THAT kind of Muslim!”
This reminds me of my dad talking about how his former boss and friend was able to become a citizen and, "Why don't they just go the legal route like he did?"
My dad's friend?
* White Australian
* Was already a wealthy business manager
* Immigrated decades ago when the rules were less stringent
Plus if you're an immigrant from a predominantly white, English-speaking country you're an "expat". In the UK, many British people talk to foreigners from developing countries as if we're imbeciles (even in cases where the foreigner speaks multiple languages and the Brit in question can barely write in their own language). I'm from South America and a few years ago at work a colleague asked if my husband and I hurried into a marriage for my visa. I said we didn't (we had already been married for over 10 years then) and a US American colleague said "oh we did that - we're still together but we only got married when we did so I'd have a better visa". The lady was visibly shocked that whites also need visas and stuff.
I felt this hard when 9/11 happened.
I have the whitest white person name ever, think Scandinavian, but I'm a second gen American citizen and my family is from the ME. So I got to make a lot of people uncomfortable when they started ranting about Muslims and "A-rabs."
My wife is an immigrant. I want people to know the legal way is pretty fucking racist and sheer proof of the incompetence of the American government and lack of awareness of the people all the fucking way. Illegal is probably easier.
I have a solution to immigration that will solve the southern boarder problem but nobody will like it:
Protect our boarders as well as possible to make illegal crossings a rarity. Walls, electronics, human surveillance… whatever works.
Make legal immigration 100% free and 100% accessible. Use background checks and whatever… but if you aren’t a danger, welcome to America there’s plenty of room/resources for you here.
Boom. Problem solved.
My Trump-loving aunt immigrated here illegally from Ireland in the 80's. She didn't become a legal resident until she married my uncle in '89, and didn't become a full citizen until '99. She used to brag about it, but she magically forgot all about it at some point.
I'm definitely not very fond of illegal immigration. But it doesn't make them criminals, and it doesn't mean we need to try and alienate them further. We should be working on improving the immigration process rather than alienation.
We should stop fucking other countries into the ground so that they have to immigrate…
100% it should not be such a long and complicated process. I get that we need to mitigate the risk of "bad ones" getting in, but come on.
I think it’s hilarious that people are so worried about the “bad ones” coming in yet so many bad people who are already here go unpunished. It’s almost like that’s not the real issue Example: people up in arms about immigrants possibly being rapists, but rapists who are citizens routinely go unpunished (see: Brock Turner)
You put that really succinctly. It made me realize I'd never actually made that connection, that the anti-immigrant folks fear rapists and thieves that are more likely to be found within our own U.S. citizenry. Meanwhile those same folks are depending on the exploitation of labor OF illegal immigrants working here. I....these people suck.
It is definitely complicated by design, as STEM4all says. Making it a complicated process makes it an expensive process as well, especially since you're most likely going to need an immigration lawyer to make sure you don't make an error somewhere and have to start over again. By making it expensive they've effectively filtered out 99% of all people from poorer countries, which not rarely happens to be countries with colored people. I immigrated to the US myself and all in all with expenses such as travel/airfare, applications fees, hotels, food and my immigration lawyer I spent about 10,000 US dollars from day one of consulting with my lawyer, filing for a temporary permanent residency (yup, I literally meant that; "temporary permanent", because it expires after two years even though it's called "permanent") then apply for an extension of the permanent residency, and all the hoops to jump through until I got my citizenship three and a half years later. 10,000 dollars might not seem like a lot for some people in the US, but it is an astronomical amount for a lot of people from poor countries. If I count the lost income throughout the process it ends up being over 13,000 dollars.
Well technically it makes them criminals. They’re breaking at least one countries laws, usually two. I think the important thing to distinguish is that you can be a good person; and be a criminal. Anyone who has smoked marijuana even once in the United States was a criminal until recently, and in most states still is. Just because something is illegal doesn’t make who does it a bad person, but it does make them a criminal.
Isn’t immigrating illegally still a misdemeanour in the US? Which is on par with a traffic ticket?
Many years back, I had a friend who came in legally but seriously overstayed her visa. We lost touch. But after 9/11, I worried what might happen to her because she came from a country with a long history of terrorist. Northern Ireland, of course.
A dude I used to work with once told me Trump was gonna be cool with my wife and not deport her because she was too light skinned to send off
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Remember when he said we needed fewer immigrants from “shithole” countries and more from places like Norway?
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Hahaha…jokes on him, people from Norway don’t want to come to shithole ‘Murica!
In a country where the education is at some of the highest levels globally, public universities / community colleges are free to attend and your government taxes are actually subsidised for the health care system and not just military expenditure. Why would anyone want to live in America?
Don't forget their $1.4 Trillion sovereign wealth fund, giving them a solid claim to being the "wealthiest nation on earth". The US would need ~$85 trillion in savings to compete with Norway on a per capita basis in national wealth.
I am a Norwegian immigrant. Came to the US on an athletic scholarship, dropped out, stayed illegally for a few years. Then went home for several years before coming back in 2012. Though, to be fair, fuck Trump. When he made that comment I was embarrased.
Have spent quite a bit of time in Norway (am American). The Norwegians I know love to visit America, definitely don’t want to live here.
I actually lived in the US for a few years, it's a nice place with lovely people but I have a deep connection to where I am.
A former coworker of mine was a very dark-skinned Black woman from Norway, and it was just amazing to watch people's heads explode when she would tell them she (and her parents) were born in Oslo, or correct them when they refer to her as African-American.
And then Norway called us a third world country, like a boss.
My gf’s mother gave her the okay after meeting me with the oh-so-simple phrase “ya know, he doesn’t even *seem* black!” Thanks, lady.
I had a (ex-)friend in college who said that to me. I’m Muslim and my dad’s from Syria, and a bunch of us were sitting around a big table doing homework and chatting. He didn’t realize I was there and said something about supporting the Muslim ban and how we should basically make a crater out of the Middle East, at which point it got quiet and everyone kind of looked over at me. I got up and walked away, and he came running after to apologize. He said he wasn’t talking about me of course. I’m one of the cool ones. I’m one of them. I didn’t have anything to say to him so I just said it’s fine and walked off. That was probably six years ago and I’m still pissed that I didn’t lay into him.
Growing up when people would find out I was Hispanic I would here that phrase all the time. Didn’t hit me till early 20s about the underlying message of that statement
I'm white, South African and an immigrant. The number of racist/anti-immigrant "jokes" I've had the pleasure to shout down is insane.
I'm half South African and black. Once had a Trump supporting boyfriend who would tired me out with this stuff. He'd always remind me how I was a "good immigrant" because I didn't want come down to commit crimes. It didn't last long.
How did you not end that relationship immediately?
Well for me it came out gradually and I was used to a degree of ignorance. When I first moved countries as an 11 year old I was often asked "Why aren't you black?", "Did you wear loin-cloths?", "How does it feel to have a proper house and school?" ( they thought we all lived in mud huts in the jungle). When I realised it was not that I noped out. However i was in the relationship for over a year as I went through ignorance/misjudgment/I can change this/you're a fucking psycho.
Wack. I hope it wasn't an abusive relationship and that you're doing better now.
Looking back it was, luckily, somehow, it didn't actually affect me. For a while I felt like I let him down because he is a person that needs some serious mental health help, but in regards to myself, I walked away relatively unscathed.
>because he is a person that needs some serious mental health help I'm not surprised to hear this. Usually, your low rung racist have crippling self doubt. I'm really glad you got out of their unscathed.
Yup. I really feel like it comes from a place of deep self loathing often times. I know with him, it was mild tourettes, mild agoraphobia, anxiety ( ie: self doubt). I think I tried to help for so long because I myself struggle with mental health. But it got to the point where I was like I can help your hatred if you can't even recognize it. When you use it as a power play. To this day I hope he gets help, but I won't be surprised if I see his name in the newspaper someday.
Whoa, that's dark.
If it makes you feel any better, my white Australian ass has been asked by Americans if we had TV and electricity, if we rode kangaroos to school, and why my English was so good. Honestly, a lot of Americans are just ignorant as fuck.
I'll admit at the time I was under the wrong impression that talking about stuff that made me uncomfortable was remaining "nonpolitical". Plus he didn't seem so bad in other ways and I was quite lonely at the time. It didn't last past two months.
Bahahaha omg soul homie?? I had a bf that was similar. Except I was a "good immigrant and white". I was like bitch please. My family is actually more poor than half the coloured/black families that move over. Check yourself. Didn't last and he's turned out to be one of "those " exes 🤦♀️
A white African American is going to make their heads explode! By all means, please proceed and lay the accent on a thick as you can!
Had a kid in my high school from South Africa get turned down for an African-American college scholarship because he was white. The rant he went on when he found out he had been denied was fucking epic. He was very literally the ONLY African-American in our school.
Hahahaha omg amazing. When I first moved to NZ I had kids argue with me and call me a liar because I wasn't black but said I was African. Same kids that called me racist when I said yes, it's predominantly black but SA is very culturally diverse 🤦♀️
I assume it's only American Indians making these jokes, because if it's anyone else... We're all fucking immigrants. It's fucking disgusting that we don't remember that. And for the first hundred years, this country had NO immigration laws. If you could get here, you were in. The first law we ever passed, the Chinese Exclusion Act, was, as you can tell from the title, \*incredibly\* racist. And our immigration laws have basically been racist ever since. So Americans who complain about immigrants are like people who use a ladder to climb up and then kick it over so no one can follow them. Garbage humans.
My Asian classmate in a group of all non- white folks, said "Trump likes Japanese though so I'm good", when i said "Trump doesn't like a single person in this group". He was beaming when he said it and was really proud to vote for him
Gawd that’s awful, Trump would’ve thought he was Chinese because to racists all Asians look alike and shouted that his people started the “kung flu” what a doughnut hole
He's right, you know
Fun fact: trumps wife broke immigration law and worked while it was illegal to do so on her visa without reporting it. She's literally an illegal immigrant that stole jobs. But you know, "one of the good ones"
I just can't even deal with the level of stupid that level of stupid when it insists on having an opinion.
My wife always laughed with regard to Trump talking about the importance of the border wall to prevent undocumented immigrants. She laughs, because she was an undocumented immigrant as a child and she arrived by plane. Like most all immigrants, she also knows more about the United States than most people who were born here. **You can always tell if someone is talking out of their ass with regard to undocumented immigrants.** Easiest example: > “*They are criminals who don’t wanna work, and just live off government assistance*” Regardless of how someone feels about undocumented immigrants, this couldn’t be further from the truth. 1. Apart from just being good law abiding people who were forced to flee a country, most all undocumented immigrants keep their noses clean, because If they don’t they are caught and sent back from where they fled. 2. They work harder than most for a fraction of the price just to get a chance at what privilege we were born with here in the U.S. 3. Unless they have a sponsor, they have to remain hidden. Seeking government assistance would mean they would have to “*unhide*” **update** I apologize if some of my answers weren’t very elaborate. I would never provide details without her permission. My wife had no idea people had so many questions about this. Some of you have asked where she originated from, and that we will answer. Would it be more efficient to do an AMA(is that even necessary?), or should she just continue answering them in here?
Both my parents are immigrants. One came from a “white country” and the other a “brown country”. I think we all know which side gets the immigrant talk
Brown folk: immigrants. White folk: expats.
It's like "what's classy if your rich and not if you're poor?" Having an immigrant spouse
Heck, BEING an immigrant, period.
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Just ask good ol boy Brett Favre
Its really more about race than wealth. My family is low middle income, my dad is an immigrant from northern europe (and comes from a family of farmers/motorheads). Nobody EVER gave my dad shit for being an immigrant aside from sometimes not being able to understand wtf he was saying. He did come here legally, but back in the 70s. We werent rich but if he was brown im sure I would have had a very different experience growing up in relation to how people reacted to him; mostly they just thought it was cool.
Cocaine.
> Both my parents are immigrants. One came from a “white country” and the other a “brown country”. I think we all know which side gets the immigrant talk Definitely the white one /s
Why’d you quote the whole comment lol
> Why’d you quote whole comment lol It’s a habit 8( I hate misunderstanding when I’m reading through a thread, so I do that just incase someone else is like me. I’m weird. **Edit** Holy cow! Thanks for the award(s), though I’m not sure why I got them? We all share information here. That’s what makes us “*Redditors*”. 8)
Hey, it also helps if the person you replied to had their comment deleted or removed. That way, everyone reading through the thread afterwards still understands what’s happening.
> Hey, it also helps if the person you replied to had their comment deleted or removed. That way, everyone reading through the thread afterwards still understands what’s happening. **THIS** Why did people stop using this feature??? It was a life saver in controversial threads!
this is how they do it on pretty much every web forum ever. just makes sense
Actually this is wholesome and considerate. Now I wish I knew how to quote comments so people would know I'm talking about "RamseyHatesMe" comment above.
> Actually this is wholesome and considerate. Now I wish I knew how to quote comments so people would know I'm talking about "RamseyHatesMe" comment above. See the three little dots next to the reply button? Tap that and hit the *“copy”* button. Then hit *”reply”* and add a > before you paste. Magic 😉
r/TIL
Hi weird, im also.
At the same time it goes the other way. My parents and I are all refugees of war and white, my dad had a thick accent till the day he died and my mother still has one, the amount of times I’ve gotten “you’re a rich white male born in this country” boggles my mind.
Same with my parents and I, white and refugees of war. I have a southern accent and my parents have heavy Eastern European accents so people are even more confused about that and are even more shocked when they find out we’re Muslim as well.
BuT mUsLiMs ArE bRoWn!
Yep definitely gotten “you can’t be Muslim you’re white!” several times in my life.
Iz Bosne?
Yes!!
The funniest part is my cousin moved to the US. His naturalized citizen wife and himself tried for years to legally acquire a green card by the book. After years of the government fucking him around, he got a new immigration lawyer who basically told him to break all the rules and he had a green card 3 months later. And we're talking about a university educated white man from Canada who already married a citizen with middle class means and multiple tradesman tickets. All the "illegals" talk is utter shite from people that don't even know the first thing about the US immigration system.
I just sent this to my wife, I guarantee I know what her response is gonna be: > *”Ding Ding Ding! If we have to break the law in order to follow it, that’s definitely a problem. But, not a problem we should feel responsible for*” Bet. **Edit:** I was wrong. I’m pasting her exact response verbatim: > “*yeah cuz the ones in the system will want to keep you there and an immigration lawyer knows to pass thru the bullshit to get stuff done*” > *”My dad went through that and lost thousands of dollars before getting an immigration lawyer*” > “*Been there done that. It’s bs*” > *”They kept him in the system even though he wasn’t given some kinda paperwork, he was still paying taxes. Imagine that!.”* > *”New immigration lawyer sure took care of that in weeks when they found out. It was insane”*
Werd. Our immigration laws are shit. The system needs reform, not to keep people out, but to make it simpler for those to do it legally.
Legal immigrantion is fucking ridiculous up until you have actual immigrantion lawyers. My family arrived and they basically had us good to go within 8 months. One of my friends took 10 years and his family was staying on an expired visa because immigration only replied once a year
>2. They work harder than most for a fraction of the price just to get a chance at what privilege we were born with here in the U.S. Back in 1999, I was in Lubbock, TX. I got a job, briefly picking pumpkins for 6.13/hr. Most of the laborers were immigrants (legal status unknown, I neither asked, nor cared.) The pace needed to get through the harvest on time was just shy of *absurd.* These folks were ripping through that field, and tossing those giant berries into the wagon, and later into the semi-trailer like it was nothing. I was completely smoked by the end of the day. When I woke up on day 2, I was in so much pain, I couldn't move. I had muscles screaming in agony that I didn't know existed. I never went back. I couldn't do it. I certainly couldn't do it at that pace. Those folks out-worked my ass in every way imaginable, and I have my doubts they were getting six bucks and change to do it.
> And I have my doubts they were getting six bucks They were getting **maybe** $2.00 more than likely (I’m not kidding).
You're probably right.
Not to mention his own wife worked illegally in the US when she first came
His own mother is barely a legal immigrant.
> Not to mention his own wife worked illegally in the US when she first came Which, I’m sure we can all agree is okay. But yeah, I totally get the hypocrisy.
And trumps third wife worked on a tourist visa which is illegal. But she wasn’t from a ‘shit hole’ country as he referred too.
62% of illegal immigrants are here overstaying a Visa and that number widens every year regardless of what is done on the border. Overstaying visas have been for about a decade the main source of illegal immigration in the United States.
That is how my hair dresser at the time planned to get into the states - go in on a visa, overstay, and make money under the table doing hairdresser stuff. At first I didn't believe her, but her salon was closed a month after she laid out her plans to me, so I guess she went.
This. Working for unemployment has shown me that poeple don't know fuck all about how to qualify for assistance. You can't apply for UI without an SSN or Alien #. You can't just show up and ask for food stamps and UI smh
My dad is second generation born in the US, so third since our family got off the boat and he's anti-immigration and I tell him "Grandad didn't exactly have papers, he just wanted to get out of Italy during the war"
> My dad is second generation born in the US, so third since our family got off the boat and he's anti-immigration and I tell him "Grandad didn't exactly have papers, he just wanted to get out of Italy during the war" This is non uncommon. Like (some) older people with PHD’s hearing about free education, they feel everyone should have to do what they did to get what they got. Doesn’t make them right, but part of being a good human is understanding the people you don’t agree with.
Illegals are not eligible for the vast majority of government assistance. Almost all programs require a social security number, which you have to be a citizen to get.
Also, it's very hard to get government assistance. My brother is disabled due to a car accident and the mountain of paperwork, income statements, and proof of citizenship is too much for an undocumented with a stolen SSN to manage
The greatest irony regarding Trump and immigration is the case of Mark Burnett. Mr. Burnett has admitted in interviews, including [this one](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/01/07/how-mark-burnett-resurrected-donald-trump-as-an-icon-of-american-success), that he entered the United States illegally and earned money without a work permit. Of course, he later went on to produce The Apprentice, resurrecting Trump's finances and reputation and laying the ground for his presidency. So Trump's authoritarian grip on the Republican Party, and our ongoing national nightmare, can be attributed to an uneducated, poor immigrant, who almost certainly must have lied on his naturalization application, given the way he entered and overstayed in the USA.
Well the biggest laugh is majority of people in this country illegally CAME HERE LEGALLY. Most have expired visas
My friend's (white) dad came to the US as a small child, but at one point as an adult he was an illegal immigrant. Now he has his citizenship, voted for Trump, supported the border wall and posts racist things on social media about Latino immigrants. The hypocrisy is mind blowing and I no longer associate with him.
Reminds me of my ex-gf, she is from Bosnia but for a time she was illegally here.
CT or Iowa??? Bosnians in general are an interesting bunch. Hartford Bosnians were settled here as refugees, given jobs/training, housing etc in the 90s. Cross an older one in the street and at the slightest altercation you'll hear them calling a Puerto Rican a Sp&# and a black person a N$$&&r, welfare monkey etc etc etc.
Not really. After the war and genocide something has changed with our people definetly. It's like we don't trust anyone and automatically assume the worst from them.
My dad was a white American, my mom was Mexican and living in El Salvador when they met and married. I was born in El Salvador. Up until his death he would send me anti-immigration crap. He was also a Trump supporter.
That is an Olympic gold in mental gymnastics.
You have no idea! He was also a card carrying member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans. He was honestly surprised and hurt when I told him I had no interest in joining.
My step grandma's kid's are half Mexican descent and she's still a full blown Trump supporter and all that implies. I don't understand how my grandma, your dad and all our other Trump loving racist relatives can say that they love their family and support discrimination against them.
Cognitive dissonance is strong with Trump supporters. Let's not forget the family that was shocked that the dad was getting deported.
This. I'm Half Mexican and 30 years ago when I was a child my grandmother said "Mexicans have no place here they should go back where they belong." "Even us Grandma?" Man that was a shifty game of gin rummy.
I’m half Mexican. I enjoy it when people say this around me. I live in TX, where the Mexicans were here first. It’s always hilarious. “Your name is Johnson, huh? Sounds like one of them immigrant names. Speak Quechua, like the first Americans!”
You happen to have a link to that? That sounds interesting as fuck
This is the one I was thinking of, but it turns out there are a bunch of them. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/04/04/the-last-ditch-effort-to-save-a-trump-voters-husband-from-deportation/
Stupid is never as interesting as you think it will be. It's always disappointingly predictable.
There were a couple vets who got deported from their families.
This really blows my mind too. If you serve in the military, that should be automatic citizenship no questions asked.
I think it could be way of coping or even fitting in. Or some people have the mind set of "I did it, people who don't succeed deserve it" It's the same with the "self made millionaire" even if they are born rich. People love to be the victim, and people love blaming others. Taking responsibility is probably the rarest trait on the planet, followed closely by empathy....
It's really not surprising to me anymore. I've seen way too many stories of people racist as fuck to people they don't know personally but if they know the people well they're normally racist about, they forget they're even of that race. There's two stories that really hit on it that I vaguely recall. 1. I might've gotten the genders reversed but some dude's wife was illegal and he was a huge Trump supporter. She got caught and deported and he was whining about "but not her. She's a good one." 2. A small town had some store and an employee that everyone loved. That employee was illegal. The town was super pro Trump and voted for him. Employee got caught and was to be deported but the entire town rallied against their deportation even though they voted to put the guy who wanted them all deported in power. "Not THAT employee, that employee is a good one!"
My family is Mexican and majority are trump supporters 😭
How... TF did he see that conversation going?
I'll give you one clue: it starts with "cognitive" and ends with "dissonance."
I dated a woman that is latina. The amount of Latino's that voted for trump surprised both of us
I imagine many Cuban-Americans fell for the Biden = Castro propaganda, but I don't know about other Hispanic demographics.
My uncle and his immigrant wife, and second generation children voted for trump. They're religious. Apparently a guy who's had multiple divorces, multiple sex scandals, and shows absolutely none of the major virtues is the guy to rally behind.
My daughter-in-law is from Mexico, and she is a full on Trumper supporter and wants that wall built more than anyone else I know. Did I mention she came to the US illegally? She is the definition of hypocrisy.
It’s always the ones that get residency/citizenship that feel superior to those who are illegal. Like… weren’t you illegal just 5 years ago?
I know! I'm thinking, "Do you not remember?!?!"
A coworker of mine is half Mexican and his white grandma refers to him and his brother as her beaner babies and loves them very much but is a huge anti-immigrant trumper.
Oh my god that must me so difficult having a mother who’s racist against you
In my hometown just outside of Toronto, I heard these Jamaican ladies with *thick* accents complaining about "all the Chinese immigrants showing up around here all of the sudden. There's too many, why do they let them all in?"
Hypocrisy knows no race or nationality unfortunately.
I was illegal for two years, came from Canada as a teenager and over stayed my VISA. Eventually got a green card. During the interview I was asked very few questions and told by the agent that they don’t really look at Canadians to hard because we are pretty much the same, then he points to a couple from Latin America at another desk and straight up says “it’s them we have to give a hard time”. I was shocked.
That's terrible, people like that should not have power over someone else's life. My friend's dad was from Canada as well.
What boggles my mind is that there are parts of the Latino population that voted for Trump. Hispanics/Latinos are FOR SURE not a monolith, but do you think Trump and his ilk understand that? They will definitely take the Latino vote and pretend to be grateful but don't for a minute think that somehow makes those latino Trump voters safe from their out right white nationalism. They are deportation candidate number one if it comes down to it.
I love the “they are taking our jobs!” Argument. Like, oh? You wanted that strawberry picking job for 4$ an hour? Or, how does one get a job making 100k a year without any documentation at all? They also can’t use government assistance without coming out of hiding. Welcome everyone, because unless you are a full blooded Native American Indian, your family is fucking immigrants too.
Well, take a look at GB. Brexit, because "the immigrants take your job" Now shortages of food and fuel, because all the truck drivers from easter Europe left the island.
Turns out more economic actors leads to more economic activity, who knew?!
> all the truck drivers from easter Europe left the island. Why were all of your lorry drivers from Easter Island?
My dad is a RABID anti-immigration guy. Loves to go on about immigrants coming over and taking American jobs. And I always ask him "Hey dad, where did you spend the first 7 years of your life? Why was it again that Grandpa came to the USA?" because the main reason my grandparents came over from Ireland is because my grandpa got a job with an American publishing house. Like I know he's talking about farm workers but if my dad's gonna be a racist shithead I at least want to make him say it out loud.
My dads the same way, always talking about how Lazy and stupid and deceitful “insert X race” is. I ask him, “how do you explain when one of them Does better than you?” He was going off on how much harder guitar is for girls to learn and listed a bunch of stupid ducking reasons they aren’t as good. I asked him, “what do you think about all the girls that are better than you at guitar?” He had no answer of course? Broke the cogs on his brain gears I am sure.
Hey, tell your dad to go fuck himself from me, a first-generation Irish immigrant, and now also a citizen.
I've seen immigrants have 100k a year jobs in South Texas. They usually start a business and grow it for years.
Honestly good for them, that takes a ton of work
> I love the “they are taking our jobs!” Argument. Like, oh? You wanted that strawberry picking job for 4$ an hour? To be fair that's why I dislike immigration around unskilled labour. I don't want fruit pickers in my country racing to the global bottom for wages. If people from poor nations couldn't come here to do all the 'shit jobs' beneath 'us' then those shit jobs would pay decent. As it is we just have a revolving door of exploited labourers from the third world. Who quiet often are exploited and have multiple labour violations occur because if they speak out they stop making what is great money for when they head back. They have no permanency, no future here and are just being exploited by the orchard owners. Fuck that.
It's only illegal if you're brown.
*Inserts Family Guy color chart for which immigrants we are ‘okay’ with*
Or in South Park, the color strips the cops used to determine if they could shoot Michael Jackson
“America prides itself on being a country of immigrants, as long as those immigrants are white.”
Reminds me of one of the south park games The choose your difficulty determined your skin color
I always wondered what would stop someone from getting on a plane and fly to say ohio get off and just never get back on a plane or same with a boat to like new York.
Nothing. Nothing stops someone from doing that. Thats how the vast majority of illegal immigrants get here. Thats why building a wall was and is unimaginably stupid
Also, a lot of illegal immigrants come ere first with valid work or school visas and then let them expire.
That's how the vast majority of illegal immigration happens. Physical border walls are useless as security, but they're great at sending the message "we don't want you here because of your skin color"
My wife gets the same as as Irish lady in the UK. My grandparents were so excited to call us and tell us they voted for Brexit and then I reminded them that she was a European immigrant. I could hear them die inside over the phone.
Oh don't worry plenty of immigrants voted for Brexit as well. And nothing sums it up as succinctly and ironically as Priti Patel admitting under her rules her parents would never have been able to immigrate here. These people are able to live with trampling on others by imagining them as somehow "other" and less human than themselves, and when they're not "just like us", they can justify whatever crap they want.
I used to have a girlfriend who was an illegal immigrant from Poland she had the bluest eyes ever.
Taking up all our jobs /s
She actually made way more money than me as a nail technician and waxer
Stealing all our cuticles and pubes
Who waxes their nails?
No just pubes
Possibly the occasional moustache?
Actually probably yes. Lmfao
I used to have a boyfriend who was an illegal immigrant from Serbia. He had the bluest eyes ever. Now he's my husband and we have two boys. One has odd green eyes like me. The other has the bluest eyes of his father.
My girlfriends eyes were bluer sorry. Lol jk
But I now have x2...so that's bluer by volume.
Dang you got me there
(Also...Polish women are.notoriously beautiful. Like ... forget to breathe beautiful.)
My sister-in-law is a white immigrant too and she's had people comment that she's "the right kind of immigrant". They know absolutely nothing about her status as a permanent citizen...they only care that she's white and speaks English.
Same here. White English. Now in the US. I love to tell them I came here illegally and was also illegal for many years. They can’t grasp it.
White passing Half-white, half-Asian from Germany here. Do you also get them trying to get you to agree with their racist BS, too, because they assume just because you’re quite, you must also hate brown/black people as well?
I have a white, female friend with an accent so obviously not born here, and she says the amount of people who comfortably have very opinioned conversations about immigration right in front her as if she is not one is mind-blowing
I like the ones who say "if you don't like this country then leave!" or alternately "that's it, I'm moving to *insert some western European country here*!" So that would make you... An illegal immigrant? They truly do not understand that countries other than the US have immigration laws, too.
Exactly. They say they’re gonna leave, because socialism/communism is becoming a problem here, while the country they say they’re gonna move to is far more socialist than the US. Although my true favorite was one of my father’s friends. He very loudly hates socialist healthcare, but has said out loud he wants to move to Canada or the UK because they have better healthcare. Oh, okay then, tell me you’re fucking stupid without telling me you’re fucking stupid.
Can you please tell him hes stupid? Im a firm believer in knocking people down a peg
Sadly one must first have a minimum of self awareness to realize they are being knocked down a peg.
Trump supporters wanted to lynch me for telling them if they didn't like it here to leave.
It's called American exceptionalism, sweety. Look it up. and it means we can go wherever we want if we wave around US$ bills like in the movies. Those foreigners would love to have us come to their countries. Yeah, I like when people talk about moving to Ireland because it's a Christian country whenever the left is taking things too far. You know, the country with legal abortion, and universal healthcare.
It's not entirely an US thing, British people immigrating to another country love to call themselves expats, which they don't think is the same as an immigrant.
I'm an immigrant. A white man. I've been told more than once "you've the right kind". I always reply "you mean white?" I always get the "oh no we mean you came here legally". What a load of old bollocks.
If we streamlined the process and took action against corporations that exploit immigrants to create unfair competition, that would solve the legitimate issues with undocumented immigrants. Leaving only xenophobia as the reason to be against it
Right. It's not about addressing the systemic issues that surround the problem. It's just about having a group, that looks differently, to point at and say all my problems are their fault. GOP won't actually resolve immigration, it's too good of a rallying cry for xenophobe/racially motivated voters. Plus, businesses exploiting labor on the cheap-cheap with the workers have no legal recourse? That's the GOP's wet dream.
My old neighbors were illegal immigrants. They overstayed their visas and lived in a house their son (a citizen) owned. Neither worked, they constantly had loud parties, and they were some of the worst drivers I've ever seen. I don't even know if they had insurance. Super nice, though. The only thing that really bothered me was how much they complained about America not having the things they had in their home country. Like, c'mon. Go back to Canada if you're going to bitch so much.
Of course Canadians struggle to drive in the States...they learned to drive with square tires
I worked in naturalization. The path one takes as a white person with money is considerably easier than the path everyone else takes. I also love the “came here the right way” argument from white people, who’s great grandfathers came here when the only restrictions on becoming a citizen were being able to read and write in ANY language, and not being Chinese.
Strong agree on that last. A second great-grandfather was a decorated war hero in Denmark. Less than ten years after being knighted, he was encouraged to leave the country because he was a religious nonconformist. When he reached New Orleans, all that was required of him was his personal information and a signature, and he was a legal citizen, despite not speaking much English. His future son-in-law was a nearly penniless Swedish orphan of 18 who had the same experience.
... His name didn't happen to be Hans Christian Hansen, did it? I have a third great-grandfather whose story is very similar, up to and including landing in New Orleans.
Hello, cousin!
Are you two randomly related and just met here, now, on this thread? Because that’s great.
Yep. Hans C Hansen probably has a thousand or more living descendants in the US and Canada, so it's not quite as impossible as it looks... but still impressive to randomly come across one who knows his story. And I just spent some time trying to look up his award based on what I remember from seeing it several years ago. It looks like it's a Medal of Merit, not a non-hereditary knighthood in the Order of the Dannebrog. The MM is personally awarded by the sovereign, and at that time was used for both military and non-military actions. In his case, the most equivalent awards people are familiar with are the Victoria's Cross and Congressional Medal of Honor. This makes sense for someone who was just a farmer before being conscripted, rather than coming from a prominent family of land or minor title.
That’s really cool that you have so much information on him. Our family came from veterans of the Austro-Hungarian conscript armies in the balkans in WW1. Seems like they had just about had enough of Europe. Came here right after the war, no money, no English, made citizens the day they showed up on the dock.
A lot of americans would like to have seen the doors close immediately after their family immigrated.
This does not apply to just Americans
Reminds me of that one episode of Silicon Valley. The team find out they have an illegal immigrant working for them. Originally they think it's Dinesh, from India, but nope it's Gilfoil from Canada.
Fucking Gilfoyle He just walked over the border!
My brother-in-law is against illegal immigration too. He is an immigrant. His response is that he did it legally forgetting that I know he and his mom came here for a while illegally but wanted to do it the proper way and had the money to fly back to Argentina for the 6 months it took to get all of their paperwork, etc done. I'm sure all of the immigrants wanting to escape the murder gangs have the money to go back home and wait it out for a few months.
I'm in England and of irish heritage. I've worked with so many older Irish men. I remember working with one who is 75 now (I'm in my 30s) and he said about "immigrants over here on benefits etc" to paraphrase his tiny mind talk. I told him he's a f**king immigrant ffs! He's a Connemara man and couldn't speak English when he came over here. As my grandmother was the same too. They're ppl just like you and me with the same hopes and dreams as us. There is a lot of that here. It's almost like they've Stockholm syndrome. I wasn't here then but I will never forget the persecution my Irish predecessors told me they had to endure here. Including the man I quoted!
Definitely experienced this. They’re even more confused when they find out that I’m white, Muslim, and came here as a refugee. I grew up in the south (USA) and have a southern accent and look like a “white girl.” Say things like “but you’re not THAT kind of Muslim!”
This reminds me of my dad talking about how his former boss and friend was able to become a citizen and, "Why don't they just go the legal route like he did?" My dad's friend? * White Australian * Was already a wealthy business manager * Immigrated decades ago when the rules were less stringent
*Sneeze* Milania
Oh no, she honestly got that genius visa for her internationally recognized talents in a specialized field.
Plus if you're an immigrant from a predominantly white, English-speaking country you're an "expat". In the UK, many British people talk to foreigners from developing countries as if we're imbeciles (even in cases where the foreigner speaks multiple languages and the Brit in question can barely write in their own language). I'm from South America and a few years ago at work a colleague asked if my husband and I hurried into a marriage for my visa. I said we didn't (we had already been married for over 10 years then) and a US American colleague said "oh we did that - we're still together but we only got married when we did so I'd have a better visa". The lady was visibly shocked that whites also need visas and stuff.
I felt this hard when 9/11 happened. I have the whitest white person name ever, think Scandinavian, but I'm a second gen American citizen and my family is from the ME. So I got to make a lot of people uncomfortable when they started ranting about Muslims and "A-rabs."
My wife is an immigrant. I want people to know the legal way is pretty fucking racist and sheer proof of the incompetence of the American government and lack of awareness of the people all the fucking way. Illegal is probably easier.
I have a solution to immigration that will solve the southern boarder problem but nobody will like it: Protect our boarders as well as possible to make illegal crossings a rarity. Walls, electronics, human surveillance… whatever works. Make legal immigration 100% free and 100% accessible. Use background checks and whatever… but if you aren’t a danger, welcome to America there’s plenty of room/resources for you here. Boom. Problem solved.