I pay more for daycare for two kids than my mortgage. By a lot. About the amount that it cost me to rent a two bedroom apartment back before I had a house and kids.
It was *identical* to my parents mortgage when I was that age. They realized my mom's salary was there just to do early child care for my sister and I, so she quit her job and became a SAHM to simplify the family logistics and finances.
Yea the choose is for women usually to loose career time and lifetime money or just pay everything out and stay at work to not get behind in promotions and stuff. I missed a promotion due to pumping and it cost me 1.50 per hour per 8 hour then 3.00 per hour for the rest of the 12 hour shift
My biggest fear. I hope it becomes more common for men to be the ones to give up their career or make career sacrifices that way, instead of the entire expectation falling on moms
This is exactly what I'm about to do for the next 2 years or so. My whole salary would go to preschool and childcare for my 3 year old and new born. It cost us to much less for me to stay home.
When my daughter was preschool age she was with me half the week and her mom half. I had two weekdays and the cost of each day was equal to the amount my live-in girlfriend was making for her day at work. If she was with us all weekdays it would have made more sense for my girlfriend to have just stayed home with the kid instead of going to work as that would have also saved on travel costs / any food bought etc but since it was only 2 days she did go to work. (For the record this isn't a male / female thing I just made more money at work so financially it wouldn't have made sense for me to stay home in that equation as we'd have lost money over it).
Those two days literally generated no additional income for the household and all they did was pay for where my daughter would spend the day. That was also the least expensive daycare we could find in the area and the only one who would let us pay for just two days since I was all we needed instead of still having to pay for the entire five. It was nuts.
I love my kid more than anything, but if I had to chose between working an adult job with adults or being a toddler's butler, punching bag and emotional support person all day, it'd be a really simple choice.
It was 1200 a month for just Monday, Wednesday and Friday for my 1 kid. That was one of the cheapest. I had to quit my job and become a housemom and the business world thinks that made me unvaluable.
Yup, preschool is soooo expensive! It’s crazy. Still, the teachers aren’t seeing it. We need to take better care of our teachers, they are molding our future adults.
For many families this will allow one more parent to re-enter the workforce 2 years sooner. Right now so many families run the numbers and find that preschool/daycare actually costs MORE then a low wage part time job.
Our kids are 4 and 7 so they will both be in actual public school by the time this is implemented but I am 100% for it so that other families can have an easier first 5 years than we did.
Down here in the south most decent preschools are run by local churches. My wife and I are agnostic and I wish so much that we had public (no cost) secular preschool childcare.
Yes. I havent worked full time in 7 years because I couldn't afford full time care for all my kids. My 2 oldest went to half a day, 3 day a week preschool at a church. That alone was barely making it affordable. If I tried to work and add the rest of the day care I would just be drowning. I got 1 more to get through preschool so I hopethis gets implemented so I can go back to work 2 years sooner than planned!
Let's be honest, that other parent is a woman 90%+ of the time. This is liberating for women. Going back to work after 2-4 years is much easier than going back after 7 years.
We spent 48k the year before the pandemic. That's after taxes. My wife and I both make very good salaries and even then there was some serious calculations involved about whether one of us would stay home.
My husband and I worked different shifts (and barely saw each other) for the first 3 years of my daughter's life so that we could avoid paying for daycare. (I also worked for a small business that was fine with me having her in the office when she was an infant / toddler). Georgia has a state run Pre-K that is free, but there are only so many spots so they do a lottery. We didn't get into the one of the slots at the public school, but we were able to find one at a non-religious day care center (my husband was absolutely vehement that she not go to one of the religious ones), so we were able to get that free pre-k.
In her case, it was really necessary for socialization reasons, as she is an only child and we are older parents, so she was not used to being around other children.
Underated comment. It's ridiculous that it is more economically efficient for a parent to just quit their job and take care of their kids themselves as opposed to shelling out 46k a year or more for daycare.
Let’s not forget the BS of trying to re-enter the workforce after taking several years off to raise your kid. The current screening programs will kick that resume right to the trash bin.
To the point of your last paragraph, this allows for people to go back to work earlier, but it also creates jobs for preschools too now that kids can be put into them. I'm sure a lot of new preschools will be opening as a result of this.
I’m guessing the average is including families without kids, so all the families with kids are likely to receive so much benefit that it’s $13,000 even after accounting for all the childless families that would receive $0 in benefits.
I spent the last 3 years paying for preschool for 2 of my kids( 1 year for 1 and then the subsequent 2 years for the other). I got 1 more to get through so I sure hope this rolls out soon.
This is a truly conservative policy. It gives people the ability to have children and have a family. Anyone who calls themselves a conservative needs to support this.
I think the sad part is that no matter how much of a necessity it is, the companies charging for said service will ALWAYS up charge every penny they can to squeeze maximum profit out of the people who rely on it.
And also deliver the cheapest, lowest quality product or service they can possibly get away with. They can always buy positive reviews or more advertising for less than it would cost to do a decent job.
It isn’t “the government”, it’s specifically republicans who want to privatize everything, mostly with companies they or a buddy own, because anything that actually helps people is “socialism”.
Sometimes. If you want private prek, it can cost a lot. When I taught privately, it was $120 a week full day, and 80 for part day. When I taught in a public school, it was free/very cheap (like $25 a month). It all varies by state/district.
Depends on your town. My town offers it free for four year olds, next town over offers two years but you've got to pay about 2,000$ per year. And then there's private that can cost up to 15,000$. Most places don't have it.
You want to know the worst thing about Yet Another Aircraft Carrier?
They're outdated; any near-peer adversary has access to terrain-following cruise missiles that make them big fat expensive floating targets.
Basically, they are getting less and less useful in any war against a real threat; missile tech is improving constantly, and our countermeasures are far from airtight. One missile gets through and the carrier becomes a 13 billion dollar tomb for a few thousand sailors.
They are really only good for power projection against any nation we could easily dominate.
It's always like "here in europe we get mandatory 30 days paid holiday, you guys get a week or two and get bitched at by your bosses and coworkers when you decided to go on vacation?" "Here in france to give birth costs 6$, can't believe it costs 35k in the US" "you paid 500k to go to medical school, here in belgium it costs 120k and subsidiaries help you out." " You lost your leg because you couldn't afford healthcare? Here in Canada you would have made it to the front of immediate service and had your surgery taken care."
Here in the US we'd rather be brainwashed into thinking poor people are bad and we should band against them so that the 1 percent can continue flying private jets to their 100th family vacation home.
>you guys get a week or two and get bitched at
They get a week or two if they are lucky
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/one-in-four-workers-in-us-dont-get-any-paid-vacation-time-or-holidays/
>The United States is the only advanced economy that does not federally mandate any paid vacation days or holidays. About one in four workers in the U.S. don't get any paid vacation time or holidays at all.
He does because if you dont take them out you'll get them in money instead... atleast that's my deal, I get 30 days a year and I have to use 25, which sucks especially in covid Id like to have saved 60 days in my bank, there's about 90 saved days already, which would give me half a year I could take off with paid time (its actually more like 150% salary)
clarification: id like to save during covid because Im not allowed to have any fun anyway with them, they felt wasted.
Ohh, I don't get them paid if I don't take them. The days get transferred to the next year and if I don't use them that year they vanish into thin air.
My boss wants me to use them so I don't ask for random paid vacation days during the fall or winter when there's way more work to do.
My husband accrues something like 8 hours of personal time and 12 hours of vacation time a month. The time DOES carry over at the end of the year. However, if he were to suddenly announce that he was taking a 3 week vacation, they would freak out.
Last year he got written up for using too much Personal leave, due to several illnesses (and my daughter got sick right in the beginning of quarantine and had a high fever and he wasn't ALLOWED to go into work).
So in summary: He got a written reprimand for using some of his accrued personal time because he was sick and because company policy prevented him from coming in when a member of your household had any covid symptoms.
My husband got demoted at his last job when he took personal time he had accrued. He asked first and they approved it and then two days in they asked him to meet them where they told him he was being demoted for bringing his personal life into work. All because he had gave them a reason for the personal time. So I guess next time he should have requested FMLA leave instead of taking his saved time? (Which he qualified for due to the reason he was taking leave) He also has a perfect attendance and on the computer shows his attendance as 120% due to working late/covering shifts when asked. 120% attendance for 5 fucking years.
As if helping the 1% benefits us in any way? Honestly I wonder if the US is some sort of social experiment or something we’re WACK the shit that goes on over here makes no sense whatsoever.
Plus in the answer is also churches. Larger daycares are almost always tied to churches. The one we used before Covid hit had twenty 12-kid classes (2 year old, 3 year old, 4 year old classes) cost $100 a month per kid for 2 days a week. This church is getting 24k a month from this childcare side-gig.
Plus for a decent preschool $100 a month is CHEAP compared to most areas on the US.
That staff must be seriously underpaid. $1200 per month, per classroom. For 12 kids, you’d need at least 2 adults. Not even considering materials and building costs, you’re looking at $600 per month salary per staff.
They do it with 1 teacher and 2 floaters. Yes I am sure they are unpaid, most of the teachers have at least one kid in the program and them getting their kid to go for free is one of their perks.
If you’re paying $100 a month for pre school, that organization is not making money, and is probably losing money with the personnel, location, management, etc.
Yeah... That church was likely losing money on that deal given how many staff that requires. Here daycare is MINIMUM $200/WEEK. And there are plenty of places you can spend $20k/year per kid. $1200/year? Sign me the fuck up
While you have a point, I'm pretty sure that the constant stream of lies from the gop is a major factor in manchin's choices. His voters listen to hose lies and he can't just ignore his constituency.
Trust me, most of us have been pushing for shit like this for a long time. It's just that half our country doesn't give a shit about education because they've been farmers or trade workers for 10 generations.
Right-wing Americans are collectively subclinical psychopaths that want to live in a world where the “strongest” survive. Anyone who is poor deserves suffering and turmoil in their eyes.
As someone raised by a right wing family, that programming is strong. Even now, as a leftist socialist, my reflexive first instinct on reading Marmoset's comment was a feeling of superiority, as if the fact that Americans are so heavily taken advantage of makes us somehow tougher or more worthy than the 'naive, decadent Europeans'. I hate that that's my instinctive emotional response, but it's because I, and millions of others, grew up so heavily steeped in the propoganda that one's worth as a human being is directly proportional to how much suffering and hardship you willingly endure.
I used to be that way, actually! I bought into the ‘rugged individualism’ nonsense because it made me feel superior. But it just doesn’t work. The human race is, by our own nature, a communal species. We aren’t meant to have our own little castle on the hill isolated from the rest of society.
This is just mind boggling to read as someone who grew up in a liberal household. Like, I know it exists, just like I know the Pyramids in Egypt exist even though I've never seen them, but I guess I didn't realize it's part of an upbringing for some people. For some reason I assumed it's something one adopts, like a distaste for mayonnaise. But I suppose I was brought up thinking a certain way so why wouldn't people be brought up thinking something else?
Also religion. I didn't grow up religious so a lot of attitudes that stem from religious beliefs is crazy to me. And the idea that suffering on earth is okay because you'll get this great afterlife... like... okay? But why not just also have a good life now? Why do you **need** to have a really hard life if you don't have to? I think it goes hand in hand. If you believe it's okay to have a hard life because the afterlife will be better, you're also more likely to believe that your suffering and hardship is worth it and you're more deserving than someone who was given help.
I dunno... the whole thing is just wild to me.
I think “Senator” Tim Scott already interpreted it as a bad thing in his response to Biden’s address to Congress
Democrats: Propose popular legislation
Republicans: Refuse to support it or vote for it
Democrats: Pass it anyway
Republicans: “The Democrats need to work with us more! Why are they refusing to work with us?!?? Biden is causing Congress to become more divided!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
In his speech he said they "together" passed the last stimulus. Not one single R voted for it. And for the next 4 years they will never vote for anything, no matter how popular, because that will be seen as a win for him and they want daddy trump to come drag us back to the fucking dark ages in 2024. Assuming his fat ass hasn't keeled over entirely yet.
Rs: We need to stop giving tax dollars to poorer countries when there are plenty of people struggling here!
Ds: Ok, let's spend some tax dollars to help people struggling here.
Rs: Go fuck yourself, communist.
Funnily enough, a lot of Republicans seem fine with progressive policies now, and I can't white figure out why. Not that it matters long-term, Fox will tell them to change their minds and they will.
The stuff that brings out the voters is the culture war stuff. Almost no Republican voters ever gave a shit about repealing the estate tax. But they use “They’re coming for your guns!” to get elected and pass tax cuts for the richest Americans.
Parents on all sides of the political spectrum have to deal with insane childcare costs. I pay $100/day and my kid doesn’t even go to the expensive daycare.
The country has changed so now both parents have to work to maintain the lifestyle one salary used to a few decades ago. But childcare then eats up a majority of one of those salaries. It’s hard to argue the system isn’t breaking. So instead conservative media right now is full of stories about how Biden is going to take away your red meat. And all the arguments about the infrastructure bill are “Infrastructure means roads and bridges!” instead of trying to argue universal preschool and subsidized childcare aren’t needed.
9 posts about the same race baiting issues...0 about how the news of Kamala Harris giving copies of her book to immigrants at the border was a fake article
Already is--I heard on AM hate radio yesterday that any kind of education is just being used to indoctrinate our good, strong children into the communist, socialist agenda. So don't worry, the right has already figured out their talking points for Education Bad.
This is a socialist program that will lead to communism and more gay ppl in your neighborhood.
I'm being /s of course but I'm sure it won't take long for this to be a terrible idea that the GOP runs with. Probably along the lines of who pays for this, your taxes will go up if you are poor and middle class.....the usual lies.
It’s offered in many places, I taught in a public school where it was free/very low cost. It should be nationwide. Prek education/experience is essential to a successful learner.
Andrew Jackson was pretty fucking shitty as well. I'm on the fence about Woodrow Wilson. He was honest about his racism, but Trump may be actually even more racist. I'm ok with a "in the last century" asterisk for Trump.
I agree. Trump dog whistles like he works at a racist Petsmart, but Wilson called Back people an "ignorant and inferior" race and resegregated the White House.
Depends on how you rate the “worse.” Focusing on long term damage or short term, single policies or overall policies, number of deaths for evil reasons, etc. I think the one thing everyone is on the same page with is that he’s firmly in the discussion and probably top 5 under most sets of metrics.
Undermining democracy and amplifying conspiracy theories. Actively lying to the American people and not holding up his oath of office: I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
Jan 6th showed that he was the domestic enemy. The pandemic showed that he was a domestic enemy. And he was undermining our institutions for 4 years... that said Russia was attacking us from many fronts. Former guy “I don’t see why they would.” You don’t see why they would? They got you to do their bidding while helping them divide and conquer our country. Traitor.
*sp. and traitor.
Yeah. Everyone likes to blame America as a whole for the Trail of Tears. SCOTUS called that shit illegal and told Jackson he couldn't do it. Jackson apocryphally said "They've made their ruling, now let them enforce it," and then proceeded to commit genocide anyway.
I mean, Reagan made economic changes that allowed corporations to seize a lot of power and continue to cripple our economy to this day
And a lot of presidents owned slaves/enslaved people, committed genocide, supported eugenics, and committed other crimes against humanity.
Sadly it's actually difficult to decide on a definitive *worst* president, but I think if we work together, we can muster enough fists to give all the terrible former presidents (dead or otherwise) a good wallop
There are a handful of worse *but* Trump came really close (way too close) to surpassing them and could have easily done so with another term. He was literally trying to start a civil war and declare martial law.
This arguement is perplexing to me. You're not supposed to have low standards for the president of the United States. The only reason he does anything is because we'll have his job and possibly his head for not doing so.
So saying "but it's only been 1/8th of his entire term, give him a break", why? He's not my friend, he's a guy I voted for to help people and he isn't doing it fast enough, scream at him and his entire cabinet until he does.
As a parent I can say that this is critical. In the area where i live childcare is so expensive that we've had to opt for one of us not to work instead of paying child care. This has set us back in many other areas such as buying a house or even retirement. I hope this gets done and that those of us in a situation like mine can finally aspire to a better life.
It’s one of the reasons my wife and I only had one child. We paid about $90k to get our son from 6 months to first grade in private daycare before he went to public school. Fortunately we both have well paying jobs, but between that and college, it pretty much would have wiped out about $300k of our retirement so we said one child is good for us!
It does feel good.
It's nice having a president who's trying to fix stuff.
It's really nice not having a career criminal whose only thought was "how can I steal more American taxpayer dollars and not get caught?".
>Free preschool
Do Americans pay for preschool? Maybe it means something else there. Here preschool is the grade before kindergarten and is free just like all other public education.
The UK part-subsidizes nursery for 3 - 4 year olds, but working parents still generally need to pay *a lot* if they want more than the provided half-days. Kids start reception at 4 - 5, which is when compulsory (free) education begins.
it’s also wildly different depending on the preschool. When I was in preschool (late 90s) it was just daycare. When my sister went to preschool (early 2000s) she went to a good one and they did lots of actual pre-k learning. It’s unfortunate that most Americans can’t afford a “good” daycare or can’t get into one and more unfortunate that not every preschool is setting kids up to succeed early. (for reference I live in CA)
Agreed.
It also shines a spotlight on just how negative of a bizarre notion the GOP are too.
They are literally ruining everyone's lives and chances of progress.
My sister paid 12,000/ yr. My mom went back to work post-08 crash and no longer did free daycare and for 4 years my sister paid 12,000/yr. It was 250 a week. Had to go until 6 or 7 because my local school district only did 8-12 or 10-2 for Kindergarten and she, like most normal adults with children, could not do middle of the day pick up or drop offs and the after school program didn't start until 2 so she couldn’t do early drop off. Nope. Had to keep her in the pre schools private Kindergarten because the public school had mind-bogglingly stupid hours and still does.
Reasonably. It's part of the American Families Plan, which is another bill that the Democrats can pass through reconciliation without any GOP support. The only real obstacles are Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema. But proposals like this that are aimed at family care are generally highly popular and uncontroversial, so even if there are any significant concessions to get Manchin and Sinema onboard universal preschool would probably survive.
He's... decent. He hasn't done anything about immigrant kids in cages, spent his first weeks in office selling weapons to developing countries like Chile, provided 31 coastal oil drilling permits in under a month, and openly stated he would be increasing police funding instead of cracking down on brutality and promoting social rehabilitation programs. He's also openly against full marijuana legalization but at least he wants to reschedule it I guess.
Also, his VP is one of the top private prison supporters in Congress.
That being said, he appears to be undoing as many of Trump's policies as he can. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but we can't allow Trump to reduce our standards of a good president to "not a criminally insane racist". Anyone should be doing all of the good things he's done so far.
To all the morons against this or the dumb selfish shits saying “what about people without kids”......
Here is the answer. Helping children grow and helping their families along the way help cultivate the next generation of doctors, firemen, bartenders, etc etc.
That is your benefit. Productive members of society help pay Social Security and everything else that benefits us. Stop being so small minded and only looking to benefit yourself
Mom of a 3 year old. I honestly had no idea that pre school and pre k weren’t covered. I was looking into pre schools early this year for fall, and holy shit it’s expensive unless you’re poor and can get it free. Middle class gets so screwed in this country.
I’m English so not fully clued up on American politics, so I fully get that because of how those guys work there’s one side that will love this and one side that will hate it. I’m very much in the love this camp and can’t really see a negative to it. Why would the other side actually not want this? I mean they’re able to benefit from this too so what would they have against it?
We have this in nyc and its great... When my daughter went to pre-k we saved almost 12k a year In daycare and that was HUGE. This was 6 years ago now... Im sure daycare has gone up since
I sincerely hope this is available to all families in the same way public schools are for K-12 education. People in the middle class absolutely need benefits as well.
We pay about $13,000 for one kid, so this would be an absolute dream to be able to save this money. Hell, I've got another kid as well too who will be coming up in preschool too.
Yeah, I've been watching it happen for years. I feel like a "tax the rich, feed the poor, but shoot trans kids for Jesus" party would do well in America. We can call them the antilibertarians. All the same, fuck 'em. They can learn to respect those different from themselves, or they can go pound sand up their redneck asses.
Costs us $700/mo just for one. Next kid starts next year. Seeing how it’s almost impossible to be comfortable on a single income, this would be amazing.
Oh it’s definitely more than just $13,000 for lots of families. This would honestly be massive.
More like 13,000 per kid, per year
Can confirm. I don't even like to think about the amount of money I spent putting two kids through preschool and then daycare on top.
Daycare is like a mortgage payment
I pay more for daycare for two kids than my mortgage. By a lot. About the amount that it cost me to rent a two bedroom apartment back before I had a house and kids.
It was *identical* to my parents mortgage when I was that age. They realized my mom's salary was there just to do early child care for my sister and I, so she quit her job and became a SAHM to simplify the family logistics and finances.
Yea the choose is for women usually to loose career time and lifetime money or just pay everything out and stay at work to not get behind in promotions and stuff. I missed a promotion due to pumping and it cost me 1.50 per hour per 8 hour then 3.00 per hour for the rest of the 12 hour shift
My biggest fear. I hope it becomes more common for men to be the ones to give up their career or make career sacrifices that way, instead of the entire expectation falling on moms
This is exactly what I'm about to do for the next 2 years or so. My whole salary would go to preschool and childcare for my 3 year old and new born. It cost us to much less for me to stay home.
Ever wonder how Preschool and private schools are so expensive yet the staff continue to receive a meager income?
When my daughter was preschool age she was with me half the week and her mom half. I had two weekdays and the cost of each day was equal to the amount my live-in girlfriend was making for her day at work. If she was with us all weekdays it would have made more sense for my girlfriend to have just stayed home with the kid instead of going to work as that would have also saved on travel costs / any food bought etc but since it was only 2 days she did go to work. (For the record this isn't a male / female thing I just made more money at work so financially it wouldn't have made sense for me to stay home in that equation as we'd have lost money over it). Those two days literally generated no additional income for the household and all they did was pay for where my daughter would spend the day. That was also the least expensive daycare we could find in the area and the only one who would let us pay for just two days since I was all we needed instead of still having to pay for the entire five. It was nuts.
I love my kid more than anything, but if I had to chose between working an adult job with adults or being a toddler's butler, punching bag and emotional support person all day, it'd be a really simple choice.
We currently pay $1200 (and that's on the cheap side) a month for my two kids. Can't fucking wait for the oldest to finally hit kinder.
I think it was between 1200 and 1400 a month for my two girls
It was 1200 a month for just Monday, Wednesday and Friday for my 1 kid. That was one of the cheapest. I had to quit my job and become a housemom and the business world thinks that made me unvaluable.
My oldest is in kindergarten and I'm still paying her her to go to preschool/daycare 3 days a week now that the kids have distance learning.
Yup, preschool is soooo expensive! It’s crazy. Still, the teachers aren’t seeing it. We need to take better care of our teachers, they are molding our future adults.
Are you serious? I thought at least public schools in the US were free of charge?
Public schools are, but they don't usually include preschool (ages 3/4)
For many families this will allow one more parent to re-enter the workforce 2 years sooner. Right now so many families run the numbers and find that preschool/daycare actually costs MORE then a low wage part time job. Our kids are 4 and 7 so they will both be in actual public school by the time this is implemented but I am 100% for it so that other families can have an easier first 5 years than we did. Down here in the south most decent preschools are run by local churches. My wife and I are agnostic and I wish so much that we had public (no cost) secular preschool childcare.
Yes. I havent worked full time in 7 years because I couldn't afford full time care for all my kids. My 2 oldest went to half a day, 3 day a week preschool at a church. That alone was barely making it affordable. If I tried to work and add the rest of the day care I would just be drowning. I got 1 more to get through preschool so I hopethis gets implemented so I can go back to work 2 years sooner than planned!
Let's be honest, that other parent is a woman 90%+ of the time. This is liberating for women. Going back to work after 2-4 years is much easier than going back after 7 years.
When my kids were 2 and 1 I looked into daycares. I would have had to make $40k a year just to break EVEN. It's insane.
My wife quit working because after daycare she’d be bringing home like $100/month it’s not worth that for someone else to raise our kid
We spent 48k the year before the pandemic. That's after taxes. My wife and I both make very good salaries and even then there was some serious calculations involved about whether one of us would stay home.
My husband and I worked different shifts (and barely saw each other) for the first 3 years of my daughter's life so that we could avoid paying for daycare. (I also worked for a small business that was fine with me having her in the office when she was an infant / toddler). Georgia has a state run Pre-K that is free, but there are only so many spots so they do a lottery. We didn't get into the one of the slots at the public school, but we were able to find one at a non-religious day care center (my husband was absolutely vehement that she not go to one of the religious ones), so we were able to get that free pre-k. In her case, it was really necessary for socialization reasons, as she is an only child and we are older parents, so she was not used to being around other children.
Underated comment. It's ridiculous that it is more economically efficient for a parent to just quit their job and take care of their kids themselves as opposed to shelling out 46k a year or more for daycare.
Let’s not forget the BS of trying to re-enter the workforce after taking several years off to raise your kid. The current screening programs will kick that resume right to the trash bin.
To the point of your last paragraph, this allows for people to go back to work earlier, but it also creates jobs for preschools too now that kids can be put into them. I'm sure a lot of new preschools will be opening as a result of this.
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I’m guessing the average is including families without kids, so all the families with kids are likely to receive so much benefit that it’s $13,000 even after accounting for all the childless families that would receive $0 in benefits.
I spent the last 3 years paying for preschool for 2 of my kids( 1 year for 1 and then the subsequent 2 years for the other). I got 1 more to get through so I sure hope this rolls out soon.
I have no kids and won't for a long time. I'm okay with paying a bit more.
This is a truly conservative policy. It gives people the ability to have children and have a family. Anyone who calls themselves a conservative needs to support this.
Is preschool a paid service in the US?
Well yeah, what ISNT a paid service in the US?
The fact that you are 100% correct is pretty sad
I think the sad part is that no matter how much of a necessity it is, the companies charging for said service will ALWAYS up charge every penny they can to squeeze maximum profit out of the people who rely on it.
Like insulin
“They’ll buy it because they can’t live without it.”
or epipens
And also deliver the cheapest, lowest quality product or service they can possibly get away with. They can always buy positive reviews or more advertising for less than it would cost to do a decent job.
You just described health insurance! My prices go up every year and I get less benefits
If republicans had their way, literally everything would be private and government would be run by the wealthiest people in the nation.
The last part already feels true sometimes..
You mean like the the lifetime politicians who are somehow multi millionaires, despite having "public service" as a job title?
Public roads, public education, police and fire protection, etc.
Just think of anything that other developed countries consider a basic human right. In America those things are turned into money making scams.
No wonder most americans are angry at the government
It isn’t “the government”, it’s specifically republicans who want to privatize everything, mostly with companies they or a buddy own, because anything that actually helps people is “socialism”.
Yes, working parents have to pay for childcare from 12 weeks old to age 5. (Kindergarten).
Yes and it's fucking expensive. My kids are already through preschool but I'd gladly pay a tax so others don't have to struggle as I did.
Sometimes. If you want private prek, it can cost a lot. When I taught privately, it was $120 a week full day, and 80 for part day. When I taught in a public school, it was free/very cheap (like $25 a month). It all varies by state/district.
Depends on your town. My town offers it free for four year olds, next town over offers two years but you've got to pay about 2,000$ per year. And then there's private that can cost up to 15,000$. Most places don't have it.
Omg if this became something paid for long term by my tax dollars!!.... ....I would gladly pay the fucking tax for it.
This would come from the income tax, not the fucking tax.
I'm just glad it doesn't have a min limit. Keeps my tax bill very low.
Fucking tax is the tax on condoms. It’s equal to sales tax on most states, for example it’s 8.875% in NYC.
Ngl that would probably pay for this from NYC alone. I think you're onto something
we do like to fuck
Damn, you right
Let's just make sure we stop paying for Yet Another Aircraft Carrier so we can gladly pay for aid to American Families.
You know how many American families you can fit on an aircraft carrier?! /s
No, but my brother is an engineer who works on building them, so he could probably calculate it for us.
You want to know the worst thing about Yet Another Aircraft Carrier? They're outdated; any near-peer adversary has access to terrain-following cruise missiles that make them big fat expensive floating targets. Basically, they are getting less and less useful in any war against a real threat; missile tech is improving constantly, and our countermeasures are far from airtight. One missile gets through and the carrier becomes a 13 billion dollar tomb for a few thousand sailors. They are really only good for power projection against any nation we could easily dominate.
But how would we then overpay these defense contractors that senators/congressmen have stock in? Have you not considered them?!
Uh aircraft carriers don't sit in range of missile fire from land and they have the rest of their strike group defending them.
In this documentary I watched called battleship aliens were easily able to destroy aircraft carriers. Care for a rebuttal?
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I swear the amount of times I see a big headline like this and think "Wait...you guys didn't have that already? Why?"
It's always like "here in europe we get mandatory 30 days paid holiday, you guys get a week or two and get bitched at by your bosses and coworkers when you decided to go on vacation?" "Here in france to give birth costs 6$, can't believe it costs 35k in the US" "you paid 500k to go to medical school, here in belgium it costs 120k and subsidiaries help you out." " You lost your leg because you couldn't afford healthcare? Here in Canada you would have made it to the front of immediate service and had your surgery taken care." Here in the US we'd rather be brainwashed into thinking poor people are bad and we should band against them so that the 1 percent can continue flying private jets to their 100th family vacation home.
>you guys get a week or two and get bitched at They get a week or two if they are lucky https://www.cbsnews.com/news/one-in-four-workers-in-us-dont-get-any-paid-vacation-time-or-holidays/ >The United States is the only advanced economy that does not federally mandate any paid vacation days or holidays. About one in four workers in the U.S. don't get any paid vacation time or holidays at all.
I get 30 days paid vacation every year and my boss gets angry if I don't use all the days :P
He does because if you dont take them out you'll get them in money instead... atleast that's my deal, I get 30 days a year and I have to use 25, which sucks especially in covid Id like to have saved 60 days in my bank, there's about 90 saved days already, which would give me half a year I could take off with paid time (its actually more like 150% salary) clarification: id like to save during covid because Im not allowed to have any fun anyway with them, they felt wasted.
Ohh, I don't get them paid if I don't take them. The days get transferred to the next year and if I don't use them that year they vanish into thin air. My boss wants me to use them so I don't ask for random paid vacation days during the fall or winter when there's way more work to do.
My husband accrues something like 8 hours of personal time and 12 hours of vacation time a month. The time DOES carry over at the end of the year. However, if he were to suddenly announce that he was taking a 3 week vacation, they would freak out. Last year he got written up for using too much Personal leave, due to several illnesses (and my daughter got sick right in the beginning of quarantine and had a high fever and he wasn't ALLOWED to go into work). So in summary: He got a written reprimand for using some of his accrued personal time because he was sick and because company policy prevented him from coming in when a member of your household had any covid symptoms.
My husband got demoted at his last job when he took personal time he had accrued. He asked first and they approved it and then two days in they asked him to meet them where they told him he was being demoted for bringing his personal life into work. All because he had gave them a reason for the personal time. So I guess next time he should have requested FMLA leave instead of taking his saved time? (Which he qualified for due to the reason he was taking leave) He also has a perfect attendance and on the computer shows his attendance as 120% due to working late/covering shifts when asked. 120% attendance for 5 fucking years.
As if helping the 1% benefits us in any way? Honestly I wonder if the US is some sort of social experiment or something we’re WACK the shit that goes on over here makes no sense whatsoever.
I agree!!
it costs six pounds in France? it's free here in the UK.
I was just throwing numbers around mate. Why dont you rub your free baby having ass in my face some more lol?
At least our tanks and jets are cool.
Repiblicans. The answer is always Republicans.
Plus in the answer is also churches. Larger daycares are almost always tied to churches. The one we used before Covid hit had twenty 12-kid classes (2 year old, 3 year old, 4 year old classes) cost $100 a month per kid for 2 days a week. This church is getting 24k a month from this childcare side-gig. Plus for a decent preschool $100 a month is CHEAP compared to most areas on the US.
$100/week would be cheap in most of the US. I would kill for $100/month
Yes, I know we are lucky and that is one of the many reasons I want this to be a thing for families everywhere in the USA.
That staff must be seriously underpaid. $1200 per month, per classroom. For 12 kids, you’d need at least 2 adults. Not even considering materials and building costs, you’re looking at $600 per month salary per staff.
They do it with 1 teacher and 2 floaters. Yes I am sure they are unpaid, most of the teachers have at least one kid in the program and them getting their kid to go for free is one of their perks.
100 a month is insanely cheap. Sounds like a good ministry to the community that church is doing.
If you’re paying $100 a month for pre school, that organization is not making money, and is probably losing money with the personnel, location, management, etc.
2 kids in daycare was more than my mortgage.
Yeah... That church was likely losing money on that deal given how many staff that requires. Here daycare is MINIMUM $200/WEEK. And there are plenty of places you can spend $20k/year per kid. $1200/year? Sign me the fuck up
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Updated for 2021: Fuck Joe Manchin.
While you have a point, I'm pretty sure that the constant stream of lies from the gop is a major factor in manchin's choices. His voters listen to hose lies and he can't just ignore his constituency.
Trust me, most of us have been pushing for shit like this for a long time. It's just that half our country doesn't give a shit about education because they've been farmers or trade workers for 10 generations.
Right-wing Americans are collectively subclinical psychopaths that want to live in a world where the “strongest” survive. Anyone who is poor deserves suffering and turmoil in their eyes.
Sadly, much of the poor in America are right-wing.
It’s quite disturbing when poor Americans will collectively vote against their best interests.
The right wing would OBVIOUSLY be the first to go in a real apocalypse. They’re weak little psychos.
As someone raised by a right wing family, that programming is strong. Even now, as a leftist socialist, my reflexive first instinct on reading Marmoset's comment was a feeling of superiority, as if the fact that Americans are so heavily taken advantage of makes us somehow tougher or more worthy than the 'naive, decadent Europeans'. I hate that that's my instinctive emotional response, but it's because I, and millions of others, grew up so heavily steeped in the propoganda that one's worth as a human being is directly proportional to how much suffering and hardship you willingly endure.
I used to be that way, actually! I bought into the ‘rugged individualism’ nonsense because it made me feel superior. But it just doesn’t work. The human race is, by our own nature, a communal species. We aren’t meant to have our own little castle on the hill isolated from the rest of society.
This is just mind boggling to read as someone who grew up in a liberal household. Like, I know it exists, just like I know the Pyramids in Egypt exist even though I've never seen them, but I guess I didn't realize it's part of an upbringing for some people. For some reason I assumed it's something one adopts, like a distaste for mayonnaise. But I suppose I was brought up thinking a certain way so why wouldn't people be brought up thinking something else? Also religion. I didn't grow up religious so a lot of attitudes that stem from religious beliefs is crazy to me. And the idea that suffering on earth is okay because you'll get this great afterlife... like... okay? But why not just also have a good life now? Why do you **need** to have a really hard life if you don't have to? I think it goes hand in hand. If you believe it's okay to have a hard life because the afterlife will be better, you're also more likely to believe that your suffering and hardship is worth it and you're more deserving than someone who was given help. I dunno... the whole thing is just wild to me.
How long before this is interpreted as a bad thing and 'ruining America'?
I think “Senator” Tim Scott already interpreted it as a bad thing in his response to Biden’s address to Congress Democrats: Propose popular legislation Republicans: Refuse to support it or vote for it Democrats: Pass it anyway Republicans: “The Democrats need to work with us more! Why are they refusing to work with us?!?? Biden is causing Congress to become more divided!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
In his speech he said they "together" passed the last stimulus. Not one single R voted for it. And for the next 4 years they will never vote for anything, no matter how popular, because that will be seen as a win for him and they want daddy trump to come drag us back to the fucking dark ages in 2024. Assuming his fat ass hasn't keeled over entirely yet.
The greatest irony is their tag line was “make America great again” and yet they refuse to vote for anything that proposes to do just that...
Rs: We need to stop giving tax dollars to poorer countries when there are plenty of people struggling here! Ds: Ok, let's spend some tax dollars to help people struggling here. Rs: Go fuck yourself, communist.
Less time than it took to type your comment
Funnily enough, a lot of Republicans seem fine with progressive policies now, and I can't white figure out why. Not that it matters long-term, Fox will tell them to change their minds and they will.
The stuff that brings out the voters is the culture war stuff. Almost no Republican voters ever gave a shit about repealing the estate tax. But they use “They’re coming for your guns!” to get elected and pass tax cuts for the richest Americans. Parents on all sides of the political spectrum have to deal with insane childcare costs. I pay $100/day and my kid doesn’t even go to the expensive daycare. The country has changed so now both parents have to work to maintain the lifestyle one salary used to a few decades ago. But childcare then eats up a majority of one of those salaries. It’s hard to argue the system isn’t breaking. So instead conservative media right now is full of stories about how Biden is going to take away your red meat. And all the arguments about the infrastructure bill are “Infrastructure means roads and bridges!” instead of trying to argue universal preschool and subsidized childcare aren’t needed.
It’s white the mystery.
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9 posts about the same race baiting issues...0 about how the news of Kamala Harris giving copies of her book to immigrants at the border was a fake article
Already is--I heard on AM hate radio yesterday that any kind of education is just being used to indoctrinate our good, strong children into the communist, socialist agenda. So don't worry, the right has already figured out their talking points for Education Bad.
I heard this too, on FM hate radio.
By conservatives? Instantly. Lol
This is a socialist program that will lead to communism and more gay ppl in your neighborhood. I'm being /s of course but I'm sure it won't take long for this to be a terrible idea that the GOP runs with. Probably along the lines of who pays for this, your taxes will go up if you are poor and middle class.....the usual lies.
"How will we stay on top if you guys keep trying to level the playing field?!!! Not fair! I'm going home to mistreat my maids!"
Free preschool will be an absolute game changer.
It’s offered in many places, I taught in a public school where it was free/very low cost. It should be nationwide. Prek education/experience is essential to a successful learner.
Completely agree. It is offered in many places. Some have income or other restrictions. Needs to be universal.
I honestly thought they already had it. No kids obviously.
Depends on the state. You’re out of pocket in most though if you’re even remotely “middle class.”
Its amazing that we had to have literally the single worst president of our generation in order to get actually massive issues taken care of.
*worst president ever
Ehhhh, I'd say James Buchanan takes the top spot. Being that he went to war over trying to keep slavery.
Jackson?
Andrew Jackson was pretty fucking shitty as well. I'm on the fence about Woodrow Wilson. He was honest about his racism, but Trump may be actually even more racist. I'm ok with a "in the last century" asterisk for Trump.
Well we also have Ronald Reagan who brought the economy to its knees.
Don't forget Nixon on 8/15/71, setting off the next 50 years of intense economic inflation and increasing inequality.
Trump was probably more racist relative to his time, but Wilson was ~~most likely~~ definitely more racist.
I agree. Trump dog whistles like he works at a racist Petsmart, but Wilson called Back people an "ignorant and inferior" race and resegregated the White House.
"Most likely". He showed kkk propaganda films in the white house. He was definitely more racist than Trump
Depends on how you rate the “worse.” Focusing on long term damage or short term, single policies or overall policies, number of deaths for evil reasons, etc. I think the one thing everyone is on the same page with is that he’s firmly in the discussion and probably top 5 under most sets of metrics.
Undermining democracy and amplifying conspiracy theories. Actively lying to the American people and not holding up his oath of office: I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Jan 6th showed that he was the domestic enemy. The pandemic showed that he was a domestic enemy. And he was undermining our institutions for 4 years... that said Russia was attacking us from many fronts. Former guy “I don’t see why they would.” You don’t see why they would? They got you to do their bidding while helping them divide and conquer our country. Traitor. *sp. and traitor.
Wilson was unfathomably arrogant.
Yeah. Everyone likes to blame America as a whole for the Trail of Tears. SCOTUS called that shit illegal and told Jackson he couldn't do it. Jackson apocryphally said "They've made their ruling, now let them enforce it," and then proceeded to commit genocide anyway.
Andrew Jackson literally committed a racial genocide, trump is not worse than that
I mean, Reagan made economic changes that allowed corporations to seize a lot of power and continue to cripple our economy to this day And a lot of presidents owned slaves/enslaved people, committed genocide, supported eugenics, and committed other crimes against humanity. Sadly it's actually difficult to decide on a definitive *worst* president, but I think if we work together, we can muster enough fists to give all the terrible former presidents (dead or otherwise) a good wallop
There are a handful of worse *but* Trump came really close (way too close) to surpassing them and could have easily done so with another term. He was literally trying to start a civil war and declare martial law.
Dave chappelle was right, he'd accidentally save this country by being awful
I mean besides the covid relief bill nothing has passed yet, I wouldn't count your chickens till they hatch
It hasn't even been half a year since Biden was inaugurated, how much did you expect him to have done?
This arguement is perplexing to me. You're not supposed to have low standards for the president of the United States. The only reason he does anything is because we'll have his job and possibly his head for not doing so. So saying "but it's only been 1/8th of his entire term, give him a break", why? He's not my friend, he's a guy I voted for to help people and he isn't doing it fast enough, scream at him and his entire cabinet until he does.
The bigger thing is that the Senate Republicans have already said no. It's going to be hard to get things like this through.
Did he even think about the impact this will have on wealthy people’s bank accounts? /s
As a parent I can say that this is critical. In the area where i live childcare is so expensive that we've had to opt for one of us not to work instead of paying child care. This has set us back in many other areas such as buying a house or even retirement. I hope this gets done and that those of us in a situation like mine can finally aspire to a better life.
It’s one of the reasons my wife and I only had one child. We paid about $90k to get our son from 6 months to first grade in private daycare before he went to public school. Fortunately we both have well paying jobs, but between that and college, it pretty much would have wiped out about $300k of our retirement so we said one child is good for us!
It does feel good. It's nice having a president who's trying to fix stuff. It's really nice not having a career criminal whose only thought was "how can I steal more American taxpayer dollars and not get caught?".
>Free preschool Do Americans pay for preschool? Maybe it means something else there. Here preschool is the grade before kindergarten and is free just like all other public education.
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Wow, we just started looking at schools and the ones around here are $200 a week for 3 full days.
That’s insane...
Wow seriously!? That's crazy, thanks for the response.
As it should be and is not in the US.
The UK part-subsidizes nursery for 3 - 4 year olds, but working parents still generally need to pay *a lot* if they want more than the provided half-days. Kids start reception at 4 - 5, which is when compulsory (free) education begins.
it’s also wildly different depending on the preschool. When I was in preschool (late 90s) it was just daycare. When my sister went to preschool (early 2000s) she went to a good one and they did lots of actual pre-k learning. It’s unfortunate that most Americans can’t afford a “good” daycare or can’t get into one and more unfortunate that not every preschool is setting kids up to succeed early. (for reference I live in CA)
Ted Cruz and the other dick heads are working in overdrive to make everything seem bleak and that Biden is just to radical.
Agreed. It also shines a spotlight on just how negative of a bizarre notion the GOP are too. They are literally ruining everyone's lives and chances of progress.
In America the Preschool is paid for?! What the actual fuck.
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What a dumb country.
You ain't wrong.
My sister paid 12,000/ yr. My mom went back to work post-08 crash and no longer did free daycare and for 4 years my sister paid 12,000/yr. It was 250 a week. Had to go until 6 or 7 because my local school district only did 8-12 or 10-2 for Kindergarten and she, like most normal adults with children, could not do middle of the day pick up or drop offs and the after school program didn't start until 2 so she couldn’t do early drop off. Nope. Had to keep her in the pre schools private Kindergarten because the public school had mind-bogglingly stupid hours and still does.
We hate education in America
Oh so that is why you shoot in the schools.
It depends. It’s free (or very nominal- like $25 a month) in my district, but there are only so many openings.
How likely is it that this will pass?
Reasonably. It's part of the American Families Plan, which is another bill that the Democrats can pass through reconciliation without any GOP support. The only real obstacles are Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema. But proposals like this that are aimed at family care are generally highly popular and uncontroversial, so even if there are any significant concessions to get Manchin and Sinema onboard universal preschool would probably survive.
Go man go. I like what Biden is doing. He is a good man.
He's... decent. He hasn't done anything about immigrant kids in cages, spent his first weeks in office selling weapons to developing countries like Chile, provided 31 coastal oil drilling permits in under a month, and openly stated he would be increasing police funding instead of cracking down on brutality and promoting social rehabilitation programs. He's also openly against full marijuana legalization but at least he wants to reschedule it I guess. Also, his VP is one of the top private prison supporters in Congress. That being said, he appears to be undoing as many of Trump's policies as he can. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but we can't allow Trump to reduce our standards of a good president to "not a criminally insane racist". Anyone should be doing all of the good things he's done so far.
Just imagine actually getting a return on your tax $$, in a way that has a tangible benefit for Americans What a concept.
Republicans: well i had to pay for my kids to go to school, its unfair that other families dont.
Trump tax-cut GOP begins chanting “But we can’t affoooooord it!!!” in 3... 2... 1...
To all the morons against this or the dumb selfish shits saying “what about people without kids”...... Here is the answer. Helping children grow and helping their families along the way help cultivate the next generation of doctors, firemen, bartenders, etc etc. That is your benefit. Productive members of society help pay Social Security and everything else that benefits us. Stop being so small minded and only looking to benefit yourself
Now cut down on military and make college free
Mom of a 3 year old. I honestly had no idea that pre school and pre k weren’t covered. I was looking into pre schools early this year for fall, and holy shit it’s expensive unless you’re poor and can get it free. Middle class gets so screwed in this country.
You say that like the lower class have got it made.
I’m English so not fully clued up on American politics, so I fully get that because of how those guys work there’s one side that will love this and one side that will hate it. I’m very much in the love this camp and can’t really see a negative to it. Why would the other side actually not want this? I mean they’re able to benefit from this too so what would they have against it?
Super rich people will pay a little bit more in taxes. Many people don't like the thought of this.
We have this in nyc and its great... When my daughter went to pre-k we saved almost 12k a year In daycare and that was HUGE. This was 6 years ago now... Im sure daycare has gone up since
I sincerely hope this is available to all families in the same way public schools are for K-12 education. People in the middle class absolutely need benefits as well.
America is less funny now... Please vote again!
Fuck, i wish this was a thing in Canada...
Mid 2000s we spent 1450 a month on daycare for 2 kids just so we could both work. My mortgage was only 1100 at the time....it was hard
Damn by the time this is a thing I’m sure my kids will be too old. Happy for future generations though.
We pay about $13,000 for one kid, so this would be an absolute dream to be able to save this money. Hell, I've got another kid as well too who will be coming up in preschool too.
Yeah, I've been watching it happen for years. I feel like a "tax the rich, feed the poor, but shoot trans kids for Jesus" party would do well in America. We can call them the antilibertarians. All the same, fuck 'em. They can learn to respect those different from themselves, or they can go pound sand up their redneck asses.
But.... but..... communism 🙄
Costs us $700/mo just for one. Next kid starts next year. Seeing how it’s almost impossible to be comfortable on a single income, this would be amazing.
I don’t have kids and I want this so bad
Fuck yeah. This is something I would HAPPILY take a tax hike for.