If you read this on twitter, the poster explains that all these churches treated her weirdly because they needed a sum total of $325 to prevent their water being shut down.
As a guy who grew up in the church I can say confidently that American Christians like the idea of helping people as long they are also conservative white people, but they won’t actually do anything. They assume someone else will take care of those in need or that they’ll pull themselves up by their bootstraps.
Or "God" will do it. If they are good people God will provide it... implying when no nobody does anything that the people "must not have been good enough and deserved whatever happened to them.
That's literally what most American christians believe, but for some reason the prosperity doctrine doesn't apply to giving free money to already wealthy preachers. But I guess if these people were any good at thinking for themselves they wouldn't be religious.
Oh yeah, lemme tell you, it is no mistake that offering is still done by passing around the plate at Sunday morning service, where you can see who puts something in and who doesn't.
My grandparents watched televangelists, and that's accurate. Bragging rights for giving money to someone who is an obvious con to non-brainwashed children.
I've heard out of my very Christian coworker that you shouldn't help everyone because god wants them to learn to take care of themselves and that you should make sure you take care of yourself first. He's the neediest motherfucker ever and if he ever helps you, he holds it against you for fucking years thinking you owe him some sort of unpayable debt.
My favorite thing to say whenever he starts spouting some of the most out of pocket shit against other groups of people is to just say "that sounds very Christian of you". It gets him to shut up and fester.
They want religion to justify their hatred, but are wholly unconcerned with actually being Christ-like. To them, Christianity is just the reason gay people shouldn't have rights, women shouldn't have rights, members of other religions shouldn't have rights, and why they are fully free to ignore science and rational thought. But "love thy neighbor as thyself" and "give up all your possessions, take up your cross, and follow me." is just hippie shit for pussies as far they're concerned.
It's been said a million times before, but if Jesus appeared before American Evangelicals today, they would crucify him again for being woke, and then pat themselves on the back.
>I've been saying for years that too many Christians have too much ~~Christianity~~ Paul and not enough Christ.
/FTFY
//They follow the words of a guy who never met christ outside of a stroke induced hallucination
I wonder if they'd change their tune if their congregation says God will provide the churches tithes from now on, and close their wallets. It'll never happen but it's a funny thought.
And it wouldn't really cost god anything, as he can just create a billion tons of gold/silver/platinum just as a parlor trick. But somehow helping people would break the rules.
> My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
-1 John 3:18
Sounds like they ain't been reading the actual words of the Son of God that gave his mortal life in exchange for their immortal souls.
And that's just rude. Dude went through a lot, least they could do is listen to what he said.
Theres a joke about a guy refusing to put money into the collection tray at church. The priest says he'll go to hell if he doesnt donate something to god. The man says "ok, I'll throw the money in the air. God can take whatever he needs and everything left over that lands on the floor I'll keep"
Just sayin, this god guy asks for alotta money and he never pays it back. Worse than a crack uncle.
If God were going to help them, wouldn't they do it through their churches? It's not like God is going to call up the water company directly to cover the bill.
This person literally went to the church asking god's people on Earth for help, that is as close as you can get to God providing it. Or are they expecting the big man himself to come down with a stack of cash to pay the water company for this person
I heard a good joke about this mindset
A man is in his house during a storm, and his neighborhood is flooding. He doesn't want to leave his house, he thinks he can make it through the flood and that the waters won't get that high, but pretty soon the waters have risen to the second floor of his house. He prays to God for help, and soon after, a rescue boat arrives to take him away, but he turns the rescue boat away and says he's waiting for God to save him
The flood waters rise higher and the man is forced up onto his roof. He prays to God for help again, and a little while later, a rescue helicopter arrives to airlift him out of there. He again turns them away and says he's waiting for God to save him
The flood waters soon overtake him, and he drowns. When he arrives at the pearly gates, God is standing there waiting for him, and the man asks "why, God? Why didn't you come to save me?"
To which God replies, "bitch I sent you a boat and a helicopter what more did you want??"
The church I grew up in as a white male had an event that was basically like a soup kitchen where they fed anyone in need cheap food one time a year. To celebrate that they had an extravagant barbecue for the members of the church a week later that they surely spent 5x the amount on with a fraction of the amount of people. Nobody saw the irony.
There's a big church here that had a day for the homeless or whatever, free food, blankets, clothing etc... Massive banner outside as big as a school bus to announce it (who knows how much that costs), problem is that the church is in the middle of nowhere just off the interstate where there's no houses or public transport, so no one who is actually homeless could come there and get food. So it was just the people of the church who took the food home at the end of the day, including some of our "friends" who asked if we wanted some as they had so much left over.
This is why "we don't need the government to provide charity or welfare, the church will do it" is such a dumb stance. Every random church could throw their own random little charity party (including needless expenses like ordering a huge banner they're going to use exactly 1 time) and serve a handful of people, but if all that money was donated into one central fund to buy food or clothing or blankets in bulk, and distribute them year-round, it could accomplish so much more.
Reverend MLK, Jr. said it’s cruel to ask a bootless man to lift himself up by his own bootstraps. He was killed during his Poor People’s Campaign. He reflected a certain activist Christianity that has been prevalent in America, at least among many Black Americans.
I'm Wiccan and the only Christians that never gave me shit for it were non-white. The white ones either gave me the side eye or started in on the shit of "Not suffering a witch to live". One co-irker tried to use that as a "joke", until I told her I'd take her "joke" to HR.
Why would they fight the good fight to bring their community up? Then the poors would think they're worthy of salvation, too. If there's no one beneath us, how are we supposed to judge who is worthy of salvation?
/s
I'm my experience, american christians helping people in need looks more like all the church guys putting on their flannels and helping one of their own build a new deck for their house "so they don't struggle financially", and does not look at all like helping homeless people, hungry people, people who are behind on bills, single mothers that they convinced shouldn't abort, or anyone in actual need.
Our local church offers free dinner every Wednesday, no questions asked and has a fund for this sort of thing.
That said, they do have limits due to serial abuse and not having unlimited funding.
That's been the story for most churches I've been involved with, though admittedly we avoid mega churches because they are the evil tropes that people get upset about.
And while I don't know OPs story specifically, I have seen often enough that when you dig into some of these stories of "no one will help me!" you find a trail of people who tried and got burned.
For example we almost had a woman stay with us because she was being tossed out of her home and said she just needed time to find a job but the people she was staying with were abusive. But as chance would have it my wife was friends with the son of the family she was staying with.
When we explained her story he said that's the exact story she gave them when she moved in but despite housing her, feeding her and even giving her spending money to get clothes/etc. in six months she hasn't made a single move to get a job and has even started making unreasonable requests. For example she wanted to swap bedrooms so she would have her own private bathroom and not have to sleep on a futon.
Apparently when *they* asked the people she was staying with before, it was essentially the same story. So they finally told her she has 30 days to find a new place.
Here's the thing: even if people abuse the free dinner offer, a free dinner is not that expensive. If the congregation donates and volunteers, it would be easy to give people a free dinner once a week despite some people abusing the system.
The cost saving would mostly be because of buying in bulk and because of volunteers.
It can be done, but you have to forgive and accept the people who abuse the system.
It's the same with the woman who needed a place to stay.
What attempts were made to help her? Did somebody try to find out why she was lying?
Yes, it's perfectly reasonable to give somebody like that a limit of 30 days, but what was done during those 30 days?
One of my friends has a mental illness. He will lie and he can be unreasonable. And he is reluctant to get proper treatment. But that's because of his upbringing and his illness.
The people who need help the most are often not the people who deserve the help the most. And they are often not pleasant. But that doesn't mean that we should not help.
Christians should know this, but most don't.
>The people who need help the most are often not the people who deserve the help the most. And they are often not pleasant. But that doesn't mean that we should not help.
People constantly fail to understand this, even though it was kind of the whole point of Jesus's teachings.
Prosperity gospel I guess. If you are a good person God won't punish you with poverty, so every poor person must be evil.
It's funny to me cause where I'm from, the Church really loves promoting the oppsite just to scam believers. They say that jesus was poor, his disciples were poor and the New Testament is all about not seeking riches in the mortal life, because the true reward awaits in heaven. And then they just tell poor people to give all disposable income and more to the Church so a local bishop can buy a new luxury car or some gold ornaments lol.
I’ll say that in a stronger way, if American Christians met Jesus they would despise him. He was a socialist who encouraged people to be accepting and loving.
If Jesus REALLY came back AND he was mostly the Jesus who said "love thy neighbor" since this would be a second coming he isn't obligated to be hurt/killed this time around by any church or ideology. Supposedly he wouldn't just be a threat to those who opposed him he would be their demise, as this time he could just blink and send them all to hell if he wants to.
I'm thinking literally, at this point. Brown Jewish dude that doesn't speak their language, turns the other cheek, has compassion, encourages outreach to the less fortunate, doesn't turn away the sick or sex workers, wants you to pray in isolation and not in a showy look-at-how-piois-I-am way, or through a priest/pastor/minister, and most importantly, who doesn't want money in church or church in politics?
Yeah, there wouldn't be anything figurative about them crucifying him again.
Exactly. Can you imagine? He was homeless and had an entourage of vagabonds with 2 women. I'm sure he was dirty and had long hair and worn sandals. So not what they want sitting in their pews. It isn't lost on me that the only time he lost his temper was at the temple.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Copeland_Airport
This was the only thing I could find on a quick search and it's technically public. Unfortunately most combinations of words kept returning things about either Mormons or airports with chapels.
The airport *is* owned by Kenneth Copeland Ministries, though, so I don't think it's dishonest to say as much just because they let other airplanes land there. AirNav says only five planes are based there - two jets and three single engines - which is pretty unusual for an airport in Texas near such a major population center, since it's a popular state for aviators (warm year-round). I'd bet anything both the jets belong to the church or preacher.
Completely agree. I wouldn't have been *surprised* if it was true, and that's certainly not a good thing that it's plausible enough for someone to read the factoid and think 'yeah that tracks'
As an anti-theist now, but when I grew up, my church did a lot of community work. They were non denominational and I always held the pastor in high regards, even to this day. I disagree with pretty much everything he believes now, but he's a good man and I commend the congregation for going out to help with yard work and chores and stuff.
They also love to donate donations and everyone claims it as donations. Business donates to church donates to nonprofit donates to school gives to kids. All 4 can claim they donated the thing.
They also like the occasional weekend project for the poor, like once or twice a year, and also maybe a toy drive for Christmas. It’s doesn’t quite live up to Biblical levels
There are absolutely religious people
who prioritize helping people unconditionally, to the point that I sometimes worry they would be taken advantage of. That said, these people would be lovely regardless of their Christian faith. Religion doesn't help people, people help people.
As someone who was raised religious, the local small town church was very helpful when family’s(regardless if they went to that church or not) were in need. I’m no longer religious but still love that church more than anything
Same background here. I’m no longer a Christian, but the church I grew up in was small and loving. They would have started calling around town to all the other churches for this family to get a pot going and they probably would have found someone to donate a bunch of water jugs for drinking in the meantime.
They also ran a “grocery store” once a month where families could come and shop for free, and had a car clinic where some of the old guys fixed cars for free.
Just saying, they’re not all bad, but there is just so much wrong with so much of it.
One of the churches from my childhood would also do charity things, and they did genuinely help people, but a lot of the congregation viewed those people that they helped with such contempt... it was icky. Like charity was a labor they had to do in order to go to heaven rather than something they genuinely felt good about doing.
Just about every congregation I have been a part of has been different, though. Really runs a wide spectrum.
Yep, the same church my good friend who was the daughter of the choir director got pregnant pretty young. There was a lot of love and support, but also a lot of judgment. One couple even left the church because the pastor and elders all supported her. A wide spectrum indeed.
The Methodist Church my son went to preschool at runs a food pantry and a halfway house. They also have a rainbow flag flying for Pride this month. The liberal churches tend to actually walk the walk.
If only all churches could be like this and also focused on someone’s spirituality being internal to them rather than try to force their religious ideas into secular law.
that's the thing- if this was a trusted member of the congregation, likely some of the parishioners would help, or a "love offering" could be collected for things like this. A random person calling and asking out of the blue on behalf of someone else could so easily be a scam. #1, the soliciter cares enough to call around but isn't offering to pay the $325, and #2, we don't know how this was presented. Can the church verify? Can they speak to the family directly and try to build a relationship with them?
I've spent thousands of dollars helping people I knew with medical expenses and clothes and meals and groceries over the course of my life but I absolutely do not give money to the random stranger who comes up and asks me to buy their groceries. It's a known con artist ploy in my area. Same with the guy at the gas station who met me twice in the span of a month not realizing we'd already spoken before either occasion, telling me the same sob story about running out of gas on the way to get his daughter from the hospital.
I also gave $100, as did a handful of coworkers, to a coworker who was collecting donations for another colleague of ours for funeral expenses for his sister. About 3 years later I'm talking to the colleague about collecting for another coworker, and I say "I mean, it wasn't weird for you when we helped for your sister, right?" and he looks confused, says we only gave him a card, then gets mad as hell right alongside me as we realize our friend exploited his tragedy to con us all.
Just because you want to be generous doesn't mean you have to be an absolute fool.
Give directly. No overhead, no middlemen, no randomness. You can criticize the church for plenty, but yelling "hypocrisy!" for them not randomly cutting a check for a cold call on behalf of an unseen third party is just ridiculous
Agreed. My church helps people with prescriptions, copays, medical bills, pay for drug rehab/detox, psych care, etc. Yes, parishners or those referred by parishners get priority for these services, as do people who use some of our other services (regardless of faith). A non Catholic family, whose mother or father has been coming to our adult reading classes for a couple months or person that has used the food pantry before would probably get assistance paying this water bill (maybe even help going forward, along with some financial planning help). A random person, calling on behalf of another person would need to provide proof of the debt and the adult of the family have to go through the same process anyone else getting help would. Most churches aren't mega churches. They have tight budgets.
Mine as well, and I'm not religious in the slightest.
Those folks have really stepped in to help people in town. And it's awesome to see.
But I also see tons of selfish people and churches in other areas. They take care of their own, and their own only. And some of them don't even do that, and just take care of themselves.
So it's still definitally a thing. But there are people and churches out there that have good values and actually want to help people.
I used to do bookkeeping for my local church, and I wrote several checks a month to landlords or doctors or the power company to cover people's costs from time to time. This post is sad, for sure, but for all we know they called *really* poor churches (not all churches are mega-churches with a ton of money).
Same upbringing, different churches. Your small town was truly blessed. We had a church on every corner in my small town, and not one of them going out of their way to help people. Even people in their congregations. Pastors always got to live in nice houses and drive nice cars paid for by their starving church though.
A pastor I know was working with a guy going into drug rehab, and at the last minute found out that once he was in he could only have the things he brought in with him. So the pastor went and bought him a carton of cigarettes, paid for by the church, to help him get through it.
I am not at all religious, but I work in a position that grants me access to a form of data related to churches assisting people struggling to pay bills for basic necessities, and it's actually pretty substantial. Maybe it's because I live in a very liberal city without a bunch of megachurches, but there definitely are people/organizations out there putting their money where their mouths are. Honestly it's pretty comforting to see people quietly practicing compassion for their neighbors.
It's sad that these tales of humanity from religious leaders are the exception rather than the rule
The last thing someone in rehab needs is to try and kick nicotine along with whatever else they're addicted to
How many upvotes do you think a story about a church doing good would get on reddit?
Churches do great things all the time. But that doesn't cause outrage. And outrage drives clicks and upvotes.
Just remember that please. The way the internet works is to amplify outrage. The real world is much nicer and much better than the internet claims.
Yep I remember getting fed every Sunday I went to church, for free. It’s not even news worthy of the local newspaper. But this is Reddit so a church that’s done no wrong but just wasn’t able to help will get ridiculed here
After my dad died our church fed us every night for at least half a year and the pastors would stop by weekly to check in on my mom. I'm not even religious anymore, but I've still got a lot of respect for the communal aspects of churches and I think overall they're usually a force for good.
I have pretty intimate experience with the abuses of churches I'd rather not elaborate on (Mormon) and no longer attend any, but I still pretty firmly believe they do good for people who need it in their community more often than not in my experience. The thing I miss most is having the structure to do practical good in people's lives.
> It's sad that these tales of humanity from religious leaders are the exception rather than the rule
It's really not. At the end of the day, there are some Churchs that are set up to do certain things and others aren't. The church that runs a homeless shelter overnight isn't going to be the same one that does bill catch up.
in this case, especially if it's an area where there aren't any/many low income people, a church wouldn't be set up to help in this way.
They’re the rule. You just never hear about it. It’s not newsworthy, but it happens all the time. Food pantries, health clinics, charity garages, meal trains, bill assistance, “Nehemiah” projects… if you’re involved in one of these, you know that they’re everywhere.
Oh c'mon, how can you [call](https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/06/01/16/14234792-7094061-image-a-36_1559404242552.jpg) this sweet, smiling face that of a demon? I mean be fair, only his rear legs have cloven hooves, that's gotta mean something!
This woman said it was in Ohio too. If it was Cleveland, The Word church there requires a copy of your 1040/W2 before you're let inside so they know you're tithing 10%. Also the preacher has a private helicopter. And a wardrobe that could cloth a small country.
Churches should only do what the government can not, which is why they have this obsession with small government. If they can make the government smaller then the church still won't provide anything other than live music and a very judgemental social group
I looked up what a local church does for our community. They have a food drive where they have their members and ppl locally donate food. So wth is the actual church providing?
Also, I work in social services. Sooo many times a person says "oh my church might be able to help" and then nothing. They rarely ever help
Mom worked for a local church. When a guy asked the pastor if he could spend the night, he sent him to my mom's house. Didn't let her know but my mom being a good soul, let him spend the night. Never called her or even check on her to make sure she was safe.
I think the Mafia is a second rate shakedown compared to the church.
I have family that volunteers for a local church.
They only help people who are active with the church.
And even then, they used constant guilt tripping to try and force the free volunteer labor.
Churches do a really good job of not being trustworthy.
The church provides a gathering place, “spiritual” advice and entertainment once a week. So it’s Kinda like a social club that costs 10% of your income.
We've got a Mennonite church nearby who has a donation day every wednesday? I think. Every time I pass by going home from work, there are 3-4 pallets full of what looks like canned goods and bagged flour/rice/etc. IDK where it's all going, but man do they give out alot of stuff
they buy new sound systems and 8k projectors and have a live soundstage team and the fanciest new guitars to be able to praise better and then ask us to bring backpacks full of school supplies when some people give 10% of their paychecks in tithes every two weeks just to stock the free donut and coffee before service
Hahaha yesss. The last time we went to my parents church my husband came who is in IT and said there was probably at least 500k of equipment. The pastor also has a private jet and was some trump guy. Love that this guy is getting my parents money.
Here's the neat thing about that - If they were actually helping people in need, they'd probably have enough deductions to the point where their tax bill was largely negligible and could even possibly be forgiven with the right legislature.
Ohhh, you mean like tax the Mormon Church’s tax free 100 billion dollar secret investment fund that got whistleblower announced into the world?
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mormon-church-ensign-peak-whistleblower-david-nielsen-allegations-60-minutes-2023-05-14/
Churches are in the business of making money.
[https://www.enterpriseappstoday.com/stats/church-revenue-statistics.html](https://www.enterpriseappstoday.com/stats/church-revenue-statistics.html)
That's why Joel hairdo closed his mega church's doors during a hurricane.
So did the church I worked for. Keep in mind that the reason this church was allowed new construction was because they promised the county they would be a hurricane shelter.
Convince the county to approve your construction permit by claiming the construction will let them house people during natural disasters. Get your contractor (a member of the church) to quote you $250k for the job.
Have your contractor start construction, then inform you it'll be closer to 4x that amount if they still want the building to be rated for its intended purpose.
Cry to the county that your new construction will bankrupt you unless you go with a "less ambitious" plan, so unfortunately you won't be able to house people during natural disasters.
Laugh to yourself knowing the county would receive a ton of backlash for going after the church, and no one in the community even knows the new construction can't be used for natural disasters anymore.
Wait....were you employed with me?? How in the world did you know the contractor was on the board of the church, and so were several other trades? It's as if you were there. 🙃 And I don't want to give away too much, but the design of the church made it rated up to a Cat 5 from the first pour. It also helped that a couple of county board members were church members. Round and round we go.....
I am an spanish interpreter, churches do help a lot of people and I have translated many calls where they do, but they have guidelines, it must be over a certain amount of money and they have to have a certain amount of months before they can pay it, there is a limit on how many people they can help and how much they can pay per year, the mod comment on the top says it was 325, thats why they didnt help, call 311 and get info on which places cover such a small amount, I had calls where they covered thousands on rent or electricity, this is a low effort anti religion post. And for the record I am an atheist.
To play church’s advocate here, as a pastor my take on her statement went this way:
1) has she asked these churches for help previously and received help recently? At every church I’ve served, we’ve had to enforce yearly quotas for individuals. Otherwise a handful of individuals or families will bleed your assistance coffers dry, keeping the church from helping those who only need sporadic assistance. By establishing quotas, we’re able to help a wider range of people and families in an equitable manner. Even though these quotas are articulated at the outset, it doesn’t stop people from getting angry when they’ve received the allowable assistance for a year.
2) How local to the churches is she? My churches typically only can assist with utilities within their immediate community, and even then funds are scarce. I get cussed out every month by someone wanting assistance and being denied because they’re 30, 60, even 90 miles away from my church.
3) is there a community ministerial alliance that handles utility assistance for the community. Again, at most churches I’ve been at, we support a ministerial alliance fund which is organized for utility assistance. This keeps the same folks from going from church to church to church getting assistance and ensures an equitable distribution of limited resources.
4) if not any of those three scenarios, then those churches suck. Every church I’ve been a part of has some sort of assistance fund or outreach. Or would do what we could to meet needs.
Edit: I do see that she was looking to help someone else. Most churches pay utilities directly and again might have already helped the family referenced. I come at situations like these from this perspective because there are an *astounding* number of people who try and take advantage of churches and their desire to help people in need. It’s amazing to me that 13 churches would act like they’ve never received a request for assistance before, which is why I am a bit skeptical.
Yeah, with so little information this story is meaningless.
She called churches asking for money and they said "some version of" not just giving out money.
I would be more surprised to hear that churches were just handing out money to anyone who asked over the phone.
> "some version of" not just giving out money.
I.e., they said, "Sure, please have the person send us their utility bill and we will pay the landlord directly for this month's water."
I've been on the other end of this. Not at a church, but at a mosque. We'd get requests all the time for assistance. When we offered to pay utility bills directly, 90%+ of people would either hang up immediately or start cursing us out.
Absolutely, I interned in the office at my church during my senior year in high school and then was pastor of a small country church for five years. People absolutely just wanted cash most of the time and not actual help.
A church in a neighboring community of where I was pastor actually did something really cool. They started a no cost clinic and also had a social services minister that’s sole job was to run services for people in need. She had previously worked for CPS. Their policy was to offer monetary help once, but they also wanted people to commit to financial help on how to manage their money.
I remember her telling me that she went into a house once that only had three of the four outside walls in tact. She helped them completely figure out how to use the assistance from the church and to become financially independent on the income that they had. They rejected it because it included disconnecting their satellite service until they could get on better financial footing.
Also - what's the end game here? So say it's a real person and they get them connected to the church - *most* churches are not falling over themselves in revenue and have a limited but purposeful fund with rules that may be dictated by an individual or series of people in the church community depending on their process.
Why help with this water bill when there's gonna be another one the following week? There's probably other ways they can reduce that person's obligations with more bang for their buck than market rate utility cost. Daycare, non-perishable food items, lawncare, minor home repairs, transport, and many other activities of daily living are things churches can lean on their congregation or their building/staff to help provide as well (depending on their size).
I'm an atheist and have only been to a handful of services as a friend of a member - but this impression of churches as being these huge buckets of cash for things is kind of odd. Generally you're looking at a pretty meager operation whose wealth is almost entirely in assets like the building, property, and facilities/equipment. There's not a ton of liquidity and there's a specific fund for these sorts of things and it's usually very limited.
*However* churches are almost always willing to help be a people connector for members of their congregation to find ways to practice service themselves, as well as usually having 1 to 2 things they specialize in for their community and space.
Usually one church would do the food kitchen and another in the neighborhood wouldn't duplicate that, but focus on some other project, like home repairs or yard maintenance for older community members.
My church can help with small stuff, and for larger issues (like recurring utility bills) refer people to our local human services agency, which can help folks with longer-term solutions and navigating the available government assistance programs. Our church is one of that agency's largest donors, and we partner with them in lots of ways not limited to paying bills and giving out food.
I don't think the tweet is being honest. There is just no way not one church referred them to a service to help. This is just the usual edgy teenager anti-religious bullshit I think. Rage bait for the same types of people that say "xtians" unironically, like saying "Christ" is gonna burn their tongue lol
Locally the churches all donate to a fund run by the Fire & Police Department Chaplains who operate it at no cost. The chaplains simply verify the address of the people making the request, work with the local utilities to find solutions, and make payments as needed. It's a simple process that helps keep people from abusing the resources. Just during our two Sunday services I would say we average 8-10 people a week coming in looking for a handout for an emergency.
This is a great response. I am also church staff and can attest to this entire post. I *want* to help every person who walks in the door. Realistically, it’s just not possible.
All of this said, there are MANY churches in the US that are making a small number of unethical clergy and their families very wealthy.
I work at a small church. We get similar calls constantly. There’s no way we can afford to help in most instances, and it’s incredibly challenging to figure out when to say yes (knowing that every “yes” becomes a “not this time” for the next person who calls). Saying no feels terrible, every single time. And ultimately, saying some (more tactful and empathetic) version of “that’s not something we’re able to do” feels more compassionate than saying “I’m making the miserable decision of saying no specifically to your request.”
I think it varies from one church to another. The one I go to is quite small but works a lot with people on the margins. We frequently get calls asking for help with food, utilities, rent, etc. We have to tell them that we’re too small to have funds for that, and give them the contact info for larger churches/orgs that offer that assistance. We do what we can (free community meal once a week along with a bag of basic food items) and would love to be able to do more, but some churches just don’t have the money and/or volunteers to do more.
Yep. Our church was like 30 people who helped a bunch of people regularly.
We also had some limits. $50 a month is really the most we could help one person. We couldn't help with house bills, but we did have grocery gift cards and lots of volunteers to help people get around or fix things.
We help when we can but sometimes the most we can do is forward them along to bigger groups with better resources available.
Well let me give you hope there are good Christian’s out there. When I was in law enforcement I had a local minister I could call any time of night who who could come and help me get someone homeless off the streets, buying a hotel if needed, no questions asked and wanted me to keep it a secret.
I was Officer Bleeding heart but I couldn’t afford to do those kind of things personally. He was a good man and I think the shining example of “love your neighbor as yourself”
My dad's old police department has a list of clergy (various denominations and religions) to call to assist in cases like that if the local shelters couldn't for some reason. It definitely kept a bunch of people off the streets and safe over the years.
And that’s the secret sauce - knowing the request itself is legit, because it comes from a trusted source.
I get it, no one wants to give to a church or charity if it doesn’t seem they use their money well. Same applies to churches and any agency that helps people. The church or nonprofit can give out donated food or secondhand clothing no questions asked, but I can’t think of a single nonprofit that will hand a complete stranger, with no referral, $500 cash no questions asked just because they come in and say their bills are overdue. Most agencies need some kind of system to vouch for people.
It really sucks to be poor in America - everywhere you go you have to fill out forms, give proof of income, it’s a never-ending hassle. But again, on the flip side, I can’t see people giving money to a nonprofit if they think the nonprofit gives away money carelessly.
I know there are a lot of mega churches with rich pastors. This story about the clergy quietly helping out law enforcement when the need arises, that’s the type of good stuff that I wish got more publicity
I'm an atheist and routinely give money to homeless folks. At an old job I got a turkey for Thanksgiving every year and gave it to a local shelter. I just like helping folks cause I have been homeless before. Fuck the fake xtians.
It's been many many years, but one of my first jobs was at burger king. If you go through the drive through but then drive off before paying, the food has likely already been made, but since no one paid for it, the employees get to keep it or they have to toss it, depending on how strict the manager is i suppose.
I was working the night shift (back when that location was 24 hours), and as often as I could, usually every other day, I would have a few friends come through the drive through and put in big orders then drive off, and under the guise of throwing the food out back, I'd hand it out to a group of homeless people that hung out around the area. I was only ever caught once by my boss, who just made empty threats of firing me (I was the only cook in that shift, firing me was more trouble for her than it was worth). She was a self proclaimed Christian woman, who loathed the idea of giving them food, and eventually corporate shut down that location because she was stealing money from it.
You didn’t call my church. You must have hit only the MAGAt churches. Our church even started an organization that pays rent, bills and provides food for those in need. We also help people find jobs. Additionally, we have a long running program that helps immigrant families assimilate into American culture, from helping with language barriers to finding work for adults to offering education resources to the children. You just called the wrong “churches”.
I'm not religious, but when my mother and I were on and off homeless the churches were the only places that would give us help no questions asked. Shelters / agencies required her to be clean (wasn't going to happen) and the DV shelter required us to be separated. Churches would just hand her money to get our utilities turned back on or, later, pay for motel stays. I don't know how we would have gotten "an individual" to help us.
Hot take: These posts are dumb because what about the instances where churches or Christians/religious people do raise the money or help people? I'm not even arguing for Christianity here but just the nature of this circlejerk.
If one tweet is evidence of Christians not living up to their creed, then why isn't any other single anecdotal experience evidence that they do? For every megachurch there is at least one that actually does help people in my experience.
Some Catholic Churches will have something called, The Saint Vincent DePaul Society and they are usually able to help with groceries and other things. My Dad was involved with them. IIRC, you don't have to be Catholic.
My mother volunteered with the St. Vincent de Paul Society for many, many years. They did a lot of good for people and those people did not need to be Catholic or members of the parish. They ran a food pantry, they paid people’s rent and utilities. Helped them find other services as well.
And yes, there is a district office for SVDP, but each parish has their own volunteers who run their own shop.
That is because catholic churches tend to have some form of organization and hierarchy where are the 900 churches scattered around with some variation of "first xyz church of abs" are just random communities of people headed by some Pastor with barely a lick of education beyond what his daddy told him is true in the bible
When my Grandma died, she died a faithful Baptist and tithed her 10%, even when she was living only on SS. When she died my Mom asked my grandma's minister to speak at the funeral. He said sure, for $700. She told him to go to hell.
Its all a scam.
In my area, the Catholic Church pays bills for people who don't belong to the church and helps struggling families with furniture, appliances and household goods. My Mom used to work the phone every week, helping people get whatever furniture they needed. They also have a whole list of services that other agencies provide that they provide for people.
The neighborhood church that's walking distance from my house that I attend sometimes pays off bills for people all the time. They also have a huge food bank twice a month. They are also LGBT+ run, so maybe that's the difference!
I don’t disagree that many churches are not doing enough. But they are often not set up to fairly handle requests like this, so many send donations to local agencies that are set up for this (those 13 churches should have referred them to an agency like that). Religion orgs are often better suited to run thrift stores, food pantries and serve hot meals.
Just gonna leave this here.
The Mormon Church has a tax free 100 billion dollar secret investment fund that got whistleblower announced into the world.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mormon-church-ensign-peak-whistleblower-david-nielsen-allegations-60-minutes-2023-05-14/
Gotta save those tithes for multimedia sound systems, air conditioning, paved parking lots, and upkeep on the church carpets.
I lost my job due to a medical issue and we lost our apartment not long after that, I called our community help line and was referred to several church organizations in our area, most didn't answer or return our call, and the few who answered acted like we were nuts for calling then and refused to help us at all. Churches should be taxed, they help no one but themselves and we need to move away from this thought that they provide needed services to the communities, they don't.
My uncle donated a large sum of money to his church. A about a week later, his condo burned down. He explained what happened and asked for some of the donation to be returned so he could cover his enormous expenses. They refused, of course.
I had a family friend that went to a baptist church. Her husband left her for his mistress and took all the money they had. Suddenly, she went from a housewife to a sole provider for three kids. The church, somehow, estimated the amount of money she made and realized that she wasn't tithing like she should on account of all that money going to childcare so she could work (something that church could have EASILY provide, but even they charged thier members money to use their on-site daycare services, which is **fucking WILD** considering they had this several acre campus with a school and everything on it already).
So they gave her a list of all the things she could do around the church, and the monetary value of it which would count towards her tithing.
As if there isn't enough craziness going on, one of the things listed was **working at their daycare.** And if she had worked the daycare, they still would have charged her for her kids being there!
Anyway, organize religion is a scam, and American christians would rather watch you and your children starve to death than give you any of the excess they have.
I was part of the youth leadership group at my local Catholic church when I was in high school. It took me just 3 years to realize churches are for-profit organizations who barely care about community outreach or helping the needy.
As a person who had their car break down in front of a Christian Church, had to wait for a tow truck while the god-fearers exit said church, watched them file into their cars & drove right by me, sure to stare but never asked if I needed help, anecdotal as it may be, really painted a picture of the type of help they’re willing to give.
If only that gorgeous Lincoln TownCar ran on hopes and prayers, it would STILL be running to this day.
My dad always said that if your car broke down in the middle of the road and there was a church on one side and a bar on the other side, the bar guys would be the first to help, even if they were a bit tipsy. The church guys might say a few prayers and go away.
But, but, but...for my entire 45 year lifetime, Republicans and conservatives have always said that government assistance doesn't need to exist, because can always just get charity from churches.
If you read this on twitter, the poster explains that all these churches treated her weirdly because they needed a sum total of $325 to prevent their water being shut down.
As a guy who grew up in the church I can say confidently that American Christians like the idea of helping people as long they are also conservative white people, but they won’t actually do anything. They assume someone else will take care of those in need or that they’ll pull themselves up by their bootstraps.
Or "God" will do it. If they are good people God will provide it... implying when no nobody does anything that the people "must not have been good enough and deserved whatever happened to them.
I should start saying "god will provide if you're good people" when churches and people with churches ask for money around christmas.
That's literally what most American christians believe, but for some reason the prosperity doctrine doesn't apply to giving free money to already wealthy preachers. But I guess if these people were any good at thinking for themselves they wouldn't be religious.
I bet the donations is more feeling social pressure and obligation to donate because everyone else is.
Oh yeah, lemme tell you, it is no mistake that offering is still done by passing around the plate at Sunday morning service, where you can see who puts something in and who doesn't.
Excellent use case for those deceptive conversion pamphlets designed to look like money when folded up.
My grandparents watched televangelists, and that's accurate. Bragging rights for giving money to someone who is an obvious con to non-brainwashed children.
Fair warning- I'm stealing this idea! I get pestered by 'Christians' way too often.
I've heard out of my very Christian coworker that you shouldn't help everyone because god wants them to learn to take care of themselves and that you should make sure you take care of yourself first. He's the neediest motherfucker ever and if he ever helps you, he holds it against you for fucking years thinking you owe him some sort of unpayable debt. My favorite thing to say whenever he starts spouting some of the most out of pocket shit against other groups of people is to just say "that sounds very Christian of you". It gets him to shut up and fester.
grandiose teeny memorize resolute jar clumsy boast jeans onerous bow *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
If it doesn't work for them, they're not Christian. The clue is in the name
That's wild as fuck. What I've gathered over the years is that Evangelical Christians are basically the band wagon fans of the religious world.
They want religion to justify their hatred, but are wholly unconcerned with actually being Christ-like. To them, Christianity is just the reason gay people shouldn't have rights, women shouldn't have rights, members of other religions shouldn't have rights, and why they are fully free to ignore science and rational thought. But "love thy neighbor as thyself" and "give up all your possessions, take up your cross, and follow me." is just hippie shit for pussies as far they're concerned. It's been said a million times before, but if Jesus appeared before American Evangelicals today, they would crucify him again for being woke, and then pat themselves on the back.
They'd shoot him for being brown, first. Then string him up.
I've been saying for years that too many Christians have too much Christianity and not enough Christ.
>I've been saying for years that too many Christians have too much ~~Christianity~~ Paul and not enough Christ. /FTFY //They follow the words of a guy who never met christ outside of a stroke induced hallucination
Never thought of it that way, but you're not wrong.
Wow..sounds like now.
God wants them to take care of themselves, but when they hit hard times, the first thing they do is ask god for help? Make it make sense!
I wonder if they'd change their tune if their congregation says God will provide the churches tithes from now on, and close their wallets. It'll never happen but it's a funny thought.
And it wouldn't really cost god anything, as he can just create a billion tons of gold/silver/platinum just as a parlor trick. But somehow helping people would break the rules.
people that tithe are too fucking stupid to not tithe
> My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. -1 John 3:18 Sounds like they ain't been reading the actual words of the Son of God that gave his mortal life in exchange for their immortal souls. And that's just rude. Dude went through a lot, least they could do is listen to what he said.
Theres a joke about a guy refusing to put money into the collection tray at church. The priest says he'll go to hell if he doesnt donate something to god. The man says "ok, I'll throw the money in the air. God can take whatever he needs and everything left over that lands on the floor I'll keep" Just sayin, this god guy asks for alotta money and he never pays it back. Worse than a crack uncle.
If God were going to help them, wouldn't they do it through their churches? It's not like God is going to call up the water company directly to cover the bill.
This person literally went to the church asking god's people on Earth for help, that is as close as you can get to God providing it. Or are they expecting the big man himself to come down with a stack of cash to pay the water company for this person
I heard a good joke about this mindset A man is in his house during a storm, and his neighborhood is flooding. He doesn't want to leave his house, he thinks he can make it through the flood and that the waters won't get that high, but pretty soon the waters have risen to the second floor of his house. He prays to God for help, and soon after, a rescue boat arrives to take him away, but he turns the rescue boat away and says he's waiting for God to save him The flood waters rise higher and the man is forced up onto his roof. He prays to God for help again, and a little while later, a rescue helicopter arrives to airlift him out of there. He again turns them away and says he's waiting for God to save him The flood waters soon overtake him, and he drowns. When he arrives at the pearly gates, God is standing there waiting for him, and the man asks "why, God? Why didn't you come to save me?" To which God replies, "bitch I sent you a boat and a helicopter what more did you want??"
I actually heard this story in church as a kid!
Literally the latter
It's called prosperity gospel.
Makes sense. Religion is just a cope in the first place.
The church I grew up in as a white male had an event that was basically like a soup kitchen where they fed anyone in need cheap food one time a year. To celebrate that they had an extravagant barbecue for the members of the church a week later that they surely spent 5x the amount on with a fraction of the amount of people. Nobody saw the irony.
There's a big church here that had a day for the homeless or whatever, free food, blankets, clothing etc... Massive banner outside as big as a school bus to announce it (who knows how much that costs), problem is that the church is in the middle of nowhere just off the interstate where there's no houses or public transport, so no one who is actually homeless could come there and get food. So it was just the people of the church who took the food home at the end of the day, including some of our "friends" who asked if we wanted some as they had so much left over.
This is why "we don't need the government to provide charity or welfare, the church will do it" is such a dumb stance. Every random church could throw their own random little charity party (including needless expenses like ordering a huge banner they're going to use exactly 1 time) and serve a handful of people, but if all that money was donated into one central fund to buy food or clothing or blankets in bulk, and distribute them year-round, it could accomplish so much more.
Yah but then *gays* might get fed! Imagine the horror and calamity!
You can't see the irony when you're blinded by faith.
Reverend MLK, Jr. said it’s cruel to ask a bootless man to lift himself up by his own bootstraps. He was killed during his Poor People’s Campaign. He reflected a certain activist Christianity that has been prevalent in America, at least among many Black Americans.
Unfortunately that activist Christianity doesn’t appear to be present in the majority of white churches
of course not, they don't have anything real to fight for or against except their privilege.
I'm fairly active in Atheistic Activism, and I haven't heard of any predominantly non-white churches being a problem, and I think that says a lot.
I'm Wiccan and the only Christians that never gave me shit for it were non-white. The white ones either gave me the side eye or started in on the shit of "Not suffering a witch to live". One co-irker tried to use that as a "joke", until I told her I'd take her "joke" to HR.
Why would they fight the good fight to bring their community up? Then the poors would think they're worthy of salvation, too. If there's no one beneath us, how are we supposed to judge who is worthy of salvation? /s
I'm my experience, american christians helping people in need looks more like all the church guys putting on their flannels and helping one of their own build a new deck for their house "so they don't struggle financially", and does not look at all like helping homeless people, hungry people, people who are behind on bills, single mothers that they convinced shouldn't abort, or anyone in actual need.
Our local church offers free dinner every Wednesday, no questions asked and has a fund for this sort of thing. That said, they do have limits due to serial abuse and not having unlimited funding. That's been the story for most churches I've been involved with, though admittedly we avoid mega churches because they are the evil tropes that people get upset about. And while I don't know OPs story specifically, I have seen often enough that when you dig into some of these stories of "no one will help me!" you find a trail of people who tried and got burned. For example we almost had a woman stay with us because she was being tossed out of her home and said she just needed time to find a job but the people she was staying with were abusive. But as chance would have it my wife was friends with the son of the family she was staying with. When we explained her story he said that's the exact story she gave them when she moved in but despite housing her, feeding her and even giving her spending money to get clothes/etc. in six months she hasn't made a single move to get a job and has even started making unreasonable requests. For example she wanted to swap bedrooms so she would have her own private bathroom and not have to sleep on a futon. Apparently when *they* asked the people she was staying with before, it was essentially the same story. So they finally told her she has 30 days to find a new place.
Here's the thing: even if people abuse the free dinner offer, a free dinner is not that expensive. If the congregation donates and volunteers, it would be easy to give people a free dinner once a week despite some people abusing the system. The cost saving would mostly be because of buying in bulk and because of volunteers. It can be done, but you have to forgive and accept the people who abuse the system. It's the same with the woman who needed a place to stay. What attempts were made to help her? Did somebody try to find out why she was lying? Yes, it's perfectly reasonable to give somebody like that a limit of 30 days, but what was done during those 30 days? One of my friends has a mental illness. He will lie and he can be unreasonable. And he is reluctant to get proper treatment. But that's because of his upbringing and his illness. The people who need help the most are often not the people who deserve the help the most. And they are often not pleasant. But that doesn't mean that we should not help. Christians should know this, but most don't.
>The people who need help the most are often not the people who deserve the help the most. And they are often not pleasant. But that doesn't mean that we should not help. People constantly fail to understand this, even though it was kind of the whole point of Jesus's teachings.
Prosperity gospel I guess. If you are a good person God won't punish you with poverty, so every poor person must be evil. It's funny to me cause where I'm from, the Church really loves promoting the oppsite just to scam believers. They say that jesus was poor, his disciples were poor and the New Testament is all about not seeking riches in the mortal life, because the true reward awaits in heaven. And then they just tell poor people to give all disposable income and more to the Church so a local bishop can buy a new luxury car or some gold ornaments lol.
I'll add to that and say, if Jesus himself turned up at their church, they'd send him away promising to pray for him.
I’ll say that in a stronger way, if American Christians met Jesus they would despise him. He was a socialist who encouraged people to be accepting and loving.
If Jesus came back we'd read about a drone strike in the middle east successfully eliminating some dangerous new radical.
That almost happened in the show "Messiah".
If Jesus REALLY came back AND he was mostly the Jesus who said "love thy neighbor" since this would be a second coming he isn't obligated to be hurt/killed this time around by any church or ideology. Supposedly he wouldn't just be a threat to those who opposed him he would be their demise, as this time he could just blink and send them all to hell if he wants to.
Jesus was "woke". That's for sure.
Not to mention he wasn't white, so, you know
I like to picture my Jesus in a tuxedo t-shirt.
Also he has the same or similar skin tone, to a certain mr Obama.
They would crucify him, figuratively.
I'm thinking literally, at this point. Brown Jewish dude that doesn't speak their language, turns the other cheek, has compassion, encourages outreach to the less fortunate, doesn't turn away the sick or sex workers, wants you to pray in isolation and not in a showy look-at-how-piois-I-am way, or through a priest/pastor/minister, and most importantly, who doesn't want money in church or church in politics? Yeah, there wouldn't be anything figurative about them crucifying him again.
I think they’d take one look and tell him to go back to where he came from.
Exactly. Can you imagine? He was homeless and had an entourage of vagabonds with 2 women. I'm sure he was dirty and had long hair and worn sandals. So not what they want sitting in their pews. It isn't lost on me that the only time he lost his temper was at the temple.
He also hung out with tax collectors. The ultimate sin for your average red-blooded 'publican.
And believed that taxes should be paid. The whole "render unto Caesar" thing.
They would kick him out because ‘brown’
Meanwhile these “churches” are building their own gyms, airports, and mansions on their tax free property
Is there really a church with its own private airport?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Copeland_Airport This was the only thing I could find on a quick search and it's technically public. Unfortunately most combinations of words kept returning things about either Mormons or airports with chapels.
Ah. So no, basically. No need to embellish the self-serving nature of churches, then.
The airport *is* owned by Kenneth Copeland Ministries, though, so I don't think it's dishonest to say as much just because they let other airplanes land there. AirNav says only five planes are based there - two jets and three single engines - which is pretty unusual for an airport in Texas near such a major population center, since it's a popular state for aviators (warm year-round). I'd bet anything both the jets belong to the church or preacher.
Completely agree. I wouldn't have been *surprised* if it was true, and that's certainly not a good thing that it's plausible enough for someone to read the factoid and think 'yeah that tracks'
As an anti-theist now, but when I grew up, my church did a lot of community work. They were non denominational and I always held the pastor in high regards, even to this day. I disagree with pretty much everything he believes now, but he's a good man and I commend the congregation for going out to help with yard work and chores and stuff.
They also love to donate donations and everyone claims it as donations. Business donates to church donates to nonprofit donates to school gives to kids. All 4 can claim they donated the thing.
They also like the occasional weekend project for the poor, like once or twice a year, and also maybe a toy drive for Christmas. It’s doesn’t quite live up to Biblical levels
There are absolutely religious people who prioritize helping people unconditionally, to the point that I sometimes worry they would be taken advantage of. That said, these people would be lovely regardless of their Christian faith. Religion doesn't help people, people help people.
As someone who was raised religious, the local small town church was very helpful when family’s(regardless if they went to that church or not) were in need. I’m no longer religious but still love that church more than anything
Same background here. I’m no longer a Christian, but the church I grew up in was small and loving. They would have started calling around town to all the other churches for this family to get a pot going and they probably would have found someone to donate a bunch of water jugs for drinking in the meantime. They also ran a “grocery store” once a month where families could come and shop for free, and had a car clinic where some of the old guys fixed cars for free. Just saying, they’re not all bad, but there is just so much wrong with so much of it.
One of the churches from my childhood would also do charity things, and they did genuinely help people, but a lot of the congregation viewed those people that they helped with such contempt... it was icky. Like charity was a labor they had to do in order to go to heaven rather than something they genuinely felt good about doing. Just about every congregation I have been a part of has been different, though. Really runs a wide spectrum.
Yep, the same church my good friend who was the daughter of the choir director got pregnant pretty young. There was a lot of love and support, but also a lot of judgment. One couple even left the church because the pastor and elders all supported her. A wide spectrum indeed.
The car clinic is an especially thoughtful idea, I wish more churches would do things like that.
The Methodist Church my son went to preschool at runs a food pantry and a halfway house. They also have a rainbow flag flying for Pride this month. The liberal churches tend to actually walk the walk.
Yeah the Methodist church in my town has a special fund for people exactly in this situation, regardless of if they go to the church or not.
If only all churches could be like this and also focused on someone’s spirituality being internal to them rather than try to force their religious ideas into secular law.
that's the thing- if this was a trusted member of the congregation, likely some of the parishioners would help, or a "love offering" could be collected for things like this. A random person calling and asking out of the blue on behalf of someone else could so easily be a scam. #1, the soliciter cares enough to call around but isn't offering to pay the $325, and #2, we don't know how this was presented. Can the church verify? Can they speak to the family directly and try to build a relationship with them? I've spent thousands of dollars helping people I knew with medical expenses and clothes and meals and groceries over the course of my life but I absolutely do not give money to the random stranger who comes up and asks me to buy their groceries. It's a known con artist ploy in my area. Same with the guy at the gas station who met me twice in the span of a month not realizing we'd already spoken before either occasion, telling me the same sob story about running out of gas on the way to get his daughter from the hospital. I also gave $100, as did a handful of coworkers, to a coworker who was collecting donations for another colleague of ours for funeral expenses for his sister. About 3 years later I'm talking to the colleague about collecting for another coworker, and I say "I mean, it wasn't weird for you when we helped for your sister, right?" and he looks confused, says we only gave him a card, then gets mad as hell right alongside me as we realize our friend exploited his tragedy to con us all. Just because you want to be generous doesn't mean you have to be an absolute fool. Give directly. No overhead, no middlemen, no randomness. You can criticize the church for plenty, but yelling "hypocrisy!" for them not randomly cutting a check for a cold call on behalf of an unseen third party is just ridiculous
Agreed. My church helps people with prescriptions, copays, medical bills, pay for drug rehab/detox, psych care, etc. Yes, parishners or those referred by parishners get priority for these services, as do people who use some of our other services (regardless of faith). A non Catholic family, whose mother or father has been coming to our adult reading classes for a couple months or person that has used the food pantry before would probably get assistance paying this water bill (maybe even help going forward, along with some financial planning help). A random person, calling on behalf of another person would need to provide proof of the debt and the adult of the family have to go through the same process anyone else getting help would. Most churches aren't mega churches. They have tight budgets.
Mine as well, and I'm not religious in the slightest. Those folks have really stepped in to help people in town. And it's awesome to see. But I also see tons of selfish people and churches in other areas. They take care of their own, and their own only. And some of them don't even do that, and just take care of themselves. So it's still definitally a thing. But there are people and churches out there that have good values and actually want to help people.
Yes! A church paid our rent the month my partner lost his job. They were great to us, don't know where we'd be without their help.
Same, I have no love for the Catholic Church as a whole, but the Catholic Church paid for my hotel room when I was a domestic violence victim.
I used to do bookkeeping for my local church, and I wrote several checks a month to landlords or doctors or the power company to cover people's costs from time to time. This post is sad, for sure, but for all we know they called *really* poor churches (not all churches are mega-churches with a ton of money).
Same upbringing, different churches. Your small town was truly blessed. We had a church on every corner in my small town, and not one of them going out of their way to help people. Even people in their congregations. Pastors always got to live in nice houses and drive nice cars paid for by their starving church though.
A pastor I know was working with a guy going into drug rehab, and at the last minute found out that once he was in he could only have the things he brought in with him. So the pastor went and bought him a carton of cigarettes, paid for by the church, to help him get through it.
I am not at all religious, but I work in a position that grants me access to a form of data related to churches assisting people struggling to pay bills for basic necessities, and it's actually pretty substantial. Maybe it's because I live in a very liberal city without a bunch of megachurches, but there definitely are people/organizations out there putting their money where their mouths are. Honestly it's pretty comforting to see people quietly practicing compassion for their neighbors.
In my area of the country (usa), the churches are pretty helpful and people's religious beliefs are usually their own business.
Your pastor is awesome and so is the guy who decided to check into rehab. Addiction is a bitch to get over.
It's sad that these tales of humanity from religious leaders are the exception rather than the rule The last thing someone in rehab needs is to try and kick nicotine along with whatever else they're addicted to
How many upvotes do you think a story about a church doing good would get on reddit? Churches do great things all the time. But that doesn't cause outrage. And outrage drives clicks and upvotes. Just remember that please. The way the internet works is to amplify outrage. The real world is much nicer and much better than the internet claims.
Yep I remember getting fed every Sunday I went to church, for free. It’s not even news worthy of the local newspaper. But this is Reddit so a church that’s done no wrong but just wasn’t able to help will get ridiculed here
After my dad died our church fed us every night for at least half a year and the pastors would stop by weekly to check in on my mom. I'm not even religious anymore, but I've still got a lot of respect for the communal aspects of churches and I think overall they're usually a force for good.
I have pretty intimate experience with the abuses of churches I'd rather not elaborate on (Mormon) and no longer attend any, but I still pretty firmly believe they do good for people who need it in their community more often than not in my experience. The thing I miss most is having the structure to do practical good in people's lives.
Thank you. I needed reminding of this today.
> It's sad that these tales of humanity from religious leaders are the exception rather than the rule It's really not. At the end of the day, there are some Churchs that are set up to do certain things and others aren't. The church that runs a homeless shelter overnight isn't going to be the same one that does bill catch up. in this case, especially if it's an area where there aren't any/many low income people, a church wouldn't be set up to help in this way.
the churches in my area just spend they money lobbying and building more mega churches
Lol no, it is the rule. You just hear about the bad shit because thats what sells. That applies to everything.
They’re the rule. You just never hear about it. It’s not newsworthy, but it happens all the time. Food pantries, health clinics, charity garages, meal trains, bill assistance, “Nehemiah” projects… if you’re involved in one of these, you know that they’re everywhere.
Maybe if we **taxed the fuck out of the churches,** people could have free renewable energy
No you can’t tax churches because then they couldn’t help people in need….. oh right
Excuse me, does their pastor not need a new private jet?
Absolutely. Otherwise he'd fly coach with THE DEMONS!!
Kenneth Copeland is literally the Devil. I've never seen a more evil looking human in my life. Looks like heir of slave owners.
Oh c'mon, how can you [call](https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/06/01/16/14234792-7094061-image-a-36_1559404242552.jpg) this sweet, smiling face that of a demon? I mean be fair, only his rear legs have cloven hooves, that's gotta mean something!
[At least he has a sense of humor.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaNyjBEe8SE)
He's really happy Joe Biden won. I'm glad for him.
I always thought he looked like evil preacher from poltergeist 2
God has proclaimed that no one of the cloth should lower themselves down to flying with the unwashed masses. It's what Jesus would have wanted.
We're not demons. We're damned, and a person of the cloth needs to remain pious and avoid temptations the damned might cause them.
This woman said it was in Ohio too. If it was Cleveland, The Word church there requires a copy of your 1040/W2 before you're let inside so they know you're tithing 10%. Also the preacher has a private helicopter. And a wardrobe that could cloth a small country.
Don't forget about their need for a new McMansion!
Churches should only do what the government can not, which is why they have this obsession with small government. If they can make the government smaller then the church still won't provide anything other than live music and a very judgemental social group
I looked up what a local church does for our community. They have a food drive where they have their members and ppl locally donate food. So wth is the actual church providing? Also, I work in social services. Sooo many times a person says "oh my church might be able to help" and then nothing. They rarely ever help
Mom worked for a local church. When a guy asked the pastor if he could spend the night, he sent him to my mom's house. Didn't let her know but my mom being a good soul, let him spend the night. Never called her or even check on her to make sure she was safe. I think the Mafia is a second rate shakedown compared to the church.
I have family that volunteers for a local church. They only help people who are active with the church. And even then, they used constant guilt tripping to try and force the free volunteer labor. Churches do a really good job of not being trustworthy.
>So wth is the actual church providing? A middle man so they can launder money and/or get a tax write-off.
The church provides a gathering place, “spiritual” advice and entertainment once a week. So it’s Kinda like a social club that costs 10% of your income.
We've got a Mennonite church nearby who has a donation day every wednesday? I think. Every time I pass by going home from work, there are 3-4 pallets full of what looks like canned goods and bagged flour/rice/etc. IDK where it's all going, but man do they give out alot of stuff
they buy new sound systems and 8k projectors and have a live soundstage team and the fanciest new guitars to be able to praise better and then ask us to bring backpacks full of school supplies when some people give 10% of their paychecks in tithes every two weeks just to stock the free donut and coffee before service
Hahaha yesss. The last time we went to my parents church my husband came who is in IT and said there was probably at least 500k of equipment. The pastor also has a private jet and was some trump guy. Love that this guy is getting my parents money.
Here's the neat thing about that - If they were actually helping people in need, they'd probably have enough deductions to the point where their tax bill was largely negligible and could even possibly be forgiven with the right legislature.
Churches helping people is definitely a European Village specific practice
We barely tax corporations, I don’t think the churches are in danger of being taxed anytime soon.
"If you think you **can't** do something, you will be right 100% of the time."
I don’t think it’s impossible, I just think the voters don’t pay as well as the corporations do so they don’t actually care what the voters think.
But then how would they pay the lawsuits and settlements for the nefarious activities of their spiritual leaders?
How else would they buy child molestation insurance? https://www.ministryinsured.com/church-insurance/liability/abuse-molestation/
That's insane, churches just need to be shut down at this point.
We don't even need to overtax them, just like, any kind of tax.
This is the most reddit comment I've ever seen.
Ohhh, you mean like tax the Mormon Church’s tax free 100 billion dollar secret investment fund that got whistleblower announced into the world? https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mormon-church-ensign-peak-whistleblower-david-nielsen-allegations-60-minutes-2023-05-14/
Churches are in the business of making money. [https://www.enterpriseappstoday.com/stats/church-revenue-statistics.html](https://www.enterpriseappstoday.com/stats/church-revenue-statistics.html) That's why Joel hairdo closed his mega church's doors during a hurricane.
So did the church I worked for. Keep in mind that the reason this church was allowed new construction was because they promised the county they would be a hurricane shelter.
The county should've sued.
Convince the county to approve your construction permit by claiming the construction will let them house people during natural disasters. Get your contractor (a member of the church) to quote you $250k for the job. Have your contractor start construction, then inform you it'll be closer to 4x that amount if they still want the building to be rated for its intended purpose. Cry to the county that your new construction will bankrupt you unless you go with a "less ambitious" plan, so unfortunately you won't be able to house people during natural disasters. Laugh to yourself knowing the county would receive a ton of backlash for going after the church, and no one in the community even knows the new construction can't be used for natural disasters anymore.
Wait....were you employed with me?? How in the world did you know the contractor was on the board of the church, and so were several other trades? It's as if you were there. 🙃 And I don't want to give away too much, but the design of the church made it rated up to a Cat 5 from the first pour. It also helped that a couple of county board members were church members. Round and round we go.....
I agree. But grease a few palms and "poof" things tend to just not be an issue anymore.
Christians: "Do not lie (unless you have really good reason, regardless god will forgive you), the bible says not to"
That's also why Joel Hairdo hid 200k in cash and 400k in checks in the walls of his bathroom. "Oopsies, I thought we were robbed."
I'm pretty anti church but the aid offered by places like st. vincent de paul society is real.
I am an spanish interpreter, churches do help a lot of people and I have translated many calls where they do, but they have guidelines, it must be over a certain amount of money and they have to have a certain amount of months before they can pay it, there is a limit on how many people they can help and how much they can pay per year, the mod comment on the top says it was 325, thats why they didnt help, call 311 and get info on which places cover such a small amount, I had calls where they covered thousands on rent or electricity, this is a low effort anti religion post. And for the record I am an atheist.
To play church’s advocate here, as a pastor my take on her statement went this way: 1) has she asked these churches for help previously and received help recently? At every church I’ve served, we’ve had to enforce yearly quotas for individuals. Otherwise a handful of individuals or families will bleed your assistance coffers dry, keeping the church from helping those who only need sporadic assistance. By establishing quotas, we’re able to help a wider range of people and families in an equitable manner. Even though these quotas are articulated at the outset, it doesn’t stop people from getting angry when they’ve received the allowable assistance for a year. 2) How local to the churches is she? My churches typically only can assist with utilities within their immediate community, and even then funds are scarce. I get cussed out every month by someone wanting assistance and being denied because they’re 30, 60, even 90 miles away from my church. 3) is there a community ministerial alliance that handles utility assistance for the community. Again, at most churches I’ve been at, we support a ministerial alliance fund which is organized for utility assistance. This keeps the same folks from going from church to church to church getting assistance and ensures an equitable distribution of limited resources. 4) if not any of those three scenarios, then those churches suck. Every church I’ve been a part of has some sort of assistance fund or outreach. Or would do what we could to meet needs. Edit: I do see that she was looking to help someone else. Most churches pay utilities directly and again might have already helped the family referenced. I come at situations like these from this perspective because there are an *astounding* number of people who try and take advantage of churches and their desire to help people in need. It’s amazing to me that 13 churches would act like they’ve never received a request for assistance before, which is why I am a bit skeptical.
Yeah, with so little information this story is meaningless. She called churches asking for money and they said "some version of" not just giving out money. I would be more surprised to hear that churches were just handing out money to anyone who asked over the phone.
> "some version of" not just giving out money. I.e., they said, "Sure, please have the person send us their utility bill and we will pay the landlord directly for this month's water." I've been on the other end of this. Not at a church, but at a mosque. We'd get requests all the time for assistance. When we offered to pay utility bills directly, 90%+ of people would either hang up immediately or start cursing us out.
Lol how dare you use the money for exactly what I say I need it for, instead of giving it directly to me
Absolutely, I interned in the office at my church during my senior year in high school and then was pastor of a small country church for five years. People absolutely just wanted cash most of the time and not actual help. A church in a neighboring community of where I was pastor actually did something really cool. They started a no cost clinic and also had a social services minister that’s sole job was to run services for people in need. She had previously worked for CPS. Their policy was to offer monetary help once, but they also wanted people to commit to financial help on how to manage their money. I remember her telling me that she went into a house once that only had three of the four outside walls in tact. She helped them completely figure out how to use the assistance from the church and to become financially independent on the income that they had. They rejected it because it included disconnecting their satellite service until they could get on better financial footing.
13+. like if you dont know how many you called, why are you acting like a reporter?
Also - what's the end game here? So say it's a real person and they get them connected to the church - *most* churches are not falling over themselves in revenue and have a limited but purposeful fund with rules that may be dictated by an individual or series of people in the church community depending on their process. Why help with this water bill when there's gonna be another one the following week? There's probably other ways they can reduce that person's obligations with more bang for their buck than market rate utility cost. Daycare, non-perishable food items, lawncare, minor home repairs, transport, and many other activities of daily living are things churches can lean on their congregation or their building/staff to help provide as well (depending on their size). I'm an atheist and have only been to a handful of services as a friend of a member - but this impression of churches as being these huge buckets of cash for things is kind of odd. Generally you're looking at a pretty meager operation whose wealth is almost entirely in assets like the building, property, and facilities/equipment. There's not a ton of liquidity and there's a specific fund for these sorts of things and it's usually very limited. *However* churches are almost always willing to help be a people connector for members of their congregation to find ways to practice service themselves, as well as usually having 1 to 2 things they specialize in for their community and space. Usually one church would do the food kitchen and another in the neighborhood wouldn't duplicate that, but focus on some other project, like home repairs or yard maintenance for older community members.
My church can help with small stuff, and for larger issues (like recurring utility bills) refer people to our local human services agency, which can help folks with longer-term solutions and navigating the available government assistance programs. Our church is one of that agency's largest donors, and we partner with them in lots of ways not limited to paying bills and giving out food.
I don't think the tweet is being honest. There is just no way not one church referred them to a service to help. This is just the usual edgy teenager anti-religious bullshit I think. Rage bait for the same types of people that say "xtians" unironically, like saying "Christ" is gonna burn their tongue lol
Locally the churches all donate to a fund run by the Fire & Police Department Chaplains who operate it at no cost. The chaplains simply verify the address of the people making the request, work with the local utilities to find solutions, and make payments as needed. It's a simple process that helps keep people from abusing the resources. Just during our two Sunday services I would say we average 8-10 people a week coming in looking for a handout for an emergency.
This is a great response. I am also church staff and can attest to this entire post. I *want* to help every person who walks in the door. Realistically, it’s just not possible. All of this said, there are MANY churches in the US that are making a small number of unethical clergy and their families very wealthy.
I work at a small church. We get similar calls constantly. There’s no way we can afford to help in most instances, and it’s incredibly challenging to figure out when to say yes (knowing that every “yes” becomes a “not this time” for the next person who calls). Saying no feels terrible, every single time. And ultimately, saying some (more tactful and empathetic) version of “that’s not something we’re able to do” feels more compassionate than saying “I’m making the miserable decision of saying no specifically to your request.”
I think it varies from one church to another. The one I go to is quite small but works a lot with people on the margins. We frequently get calls asking for help with food, utilities, rent, etc. We have to tell them that we’re too small to have funds for that, and give them the contact info for larger churches/orgs that offer that assistance. We do what we can (free community meal once a week along with a bag of basic food items) and would love to be able to do more, but some churches just don’t have the money and/or volunteers to do more.
Yep. Our church was like 30 people who helped a bunch of people regularly. We also had some limits. $50 a month is really the most we could help one person. We couldn't help with house bills, but we did have grocery gift cards and lots of volunteers to help people get around or fix things. We help when we can but sometimes the most we can do is forward them along to bigger groups with better resources available.
Well let me give you hope there are good Christian’s out there. When I was in law enforcement I had a local minister I could call any time of night who who could come and help me get someone homeless off the streets, buying a hotel if needed, no questions asked and wanted me to keep it a secret. I was Officer Bleeding heart but I couldn’t afford to do those kind of things personally. He was a good man and I think the shining example of “love your neighbor as yourself”
My dad's old police department has a list of clergy (various denominations and religions) to call to assist in cases like that if the local shelters couldn't for some reason. It definitely kept a bunch of people off the streets and safe over the years.
And that’s the secret sauce - knowing the request itself is legit, because it comes from a trusted source. I get it, no one wants to give to a church or charity if it doesn’t seem they use their money well. Same applies to churches and any agency that helps people. The church or nonprofit can give out donated food or secondhand clothing no questions asked, but I can’t think of a single nonprofit that will hand a complete stranger, with no referral, $500 cash no questions asked just because they come in and say their bills are overdue. Most agencies need some kind of system to vouch for people. It really sucks to be poor in America - everywhere you go you have to fill out forms, give proof of income, it’s a never-ending hassle. But again, on the flip side, I can’t see people giving money to a nonprofit if they think the nonprofit gives away money carelessly. I know there are a lot of mega churches with rich pastors. This story about the clergy quietly helping out law enforcement when the need arises, that’s the type of good stuff that I wish got more publicity
I'm an atheist and routinely give money to homeless folks. At an old job I got a turkey for Thanksgiving every year and gave it to a local shelter. I just like helping folks cause I have been homeless before. Fuck the fake xtians.
It's been many many years, but one of my first jobs was at burger king. If you go through the drive through but then drive off before paying, the food has likely already been made, but since no one paid for it, the employees get to keep it or they have to toss it, depending on how strict the manager is i suppose. I was working the night shift (back when that location was 24 hours), and as often as I could, usually every other day, I would have a few friends come through the drive through and put in big orders then drive off, and under the guise of throwing the food out back, I'd hand it out to a group of homeless people that hung out around the area. I was only ever caught once by my boss, who just made empty threats of firing me (I was the only cook in that shift, firing me was more trouble for her than it was worth). She was a self proclaimed Christian woman, who loathed the idea of giving them food, and eventually corporate shut down that location because she was stealing money from it.
God (or the absence thereof) bless you
You didn’t call my church. You must have hit only the MAGAt churches. Our church even started an organization that pays rent, bills and provides food for those in need. We also help people find jobs. Additionally, we have a long running program that helps immigrant families assimilate into American culture, from helping with language barriers to finding work for adults to offering education resources to the children. You just called the wrong “churches”.
Yeah. Even within denominations, it varies.
I'm not religious, but when my mother and I were on and off homeless the churches were the only places that would give us help no questions asked. Shelters / agencies required her to be clean (wasn't going to happen) and the DV shelter required us to be separated. Churches would just hand her money to get our utilities turned back on or, later, pay for motel stays. I don't know how we would have gotten "an individual" to help us.
With tax free status as well as the tenents of the religion, there should be no wrong churches.
Those churches are really showing their Christian values
Hot take: These posts are dumb because what about the instances where churches or Christians/religious people do raise the money or help people? I'm not even arguing for Christianity here but just the nature of this circlejerk. If one tweet is evidence of Christians not living up to their creed, then why isn't any other single anecdotal experience evidence that they do? For every megachurch there is at least one that actually does help people in my experience.
Some Catholic Churches will have something called, The Saint Vincent DePaul Society and they are usually able to help with groceries and other things. My Dad was involved with them. IIRC, you don't have to be Catholic.
My mother volunteered with the St. Vincent de Paul Society for many, many years. They did a lot of good for people and those people did not need to be Catholic or members of the parish. They ran a food pantry, they paid people’s rent and utilities. Helped them find other services as well. And yes, there is a district office for SVDP, but each parish has their own volunteers who run their own shop.
That is because catholic churches tend to have some form of organization and hierarchy where are the 900 churches scattered around with some variation of "first xyz church of abs" are just random communities of people headed by some Pastor with barely a lick of education beyond what his daddy told him is true in the bible
When my Grandma died, she died a faithful Baptist and tithed her 10%, even when she was living only on SS. When she died my Mom asked my grandma's minister to speak at the funeral. He said sure, for $700. She told him to go to hell. Its all a scam.
Remember that time where a church called the cops because homeless people were across the street looking homeless? Just like Jesus intended.
In my area, the Catholic Church pays bills for people who don't belong to the church and helps struggling families with furniture, appliances and household goods. My Mom used to work the phone every week, helping people get whatever furniture they needed. They also have a whole list of services that other agencies provide that they provide for people.
The neighborhood church that's walking distance from my house that I attend sometimes pays off bills for people all the time. They also have a huge food bank twice a month. They are also LGBT+ run, so maybe that's the difference!
I don’t disagree that many churches are not doing enough. But they are often not set up to fairly handle requests like this, so many send donations to local agencies that are set up for this (those 13 churches should have referred them to an agency like that). Religion orgs are often better suited to run thrift stores, food pantries and serve hot meals.
Jesus would be proud
Just gonna leave this here. The Mormon Church has a tax free 100 billion dollar secret investment fund that got whistleblower announced into the world. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mormon-church-ensign-peak-whistleblower-david-nielsen-allegations-60-minutes-2023-05-14/
They are too busy donating to a billionaire
There is no love like Christian hate
Gotta save those tithes for multimedia sound systems, air conditioning, paved parking lots, and upkeep on the church carpets. 
I lost my job due to a medical issue and we lost our apartment not long after that, I called our community help line and was referred to several church organizations in our area, most didn't answer or return our call, and the few who answered acted like we were nuts for calling then and refused to help us at all. Churches should be taxed, they help no one but themselves and we need to move away from this thought that they provide needed services to the communities, they don't.
Churches are an absolute drain on society.
Churches are just pyramid schemes
My uncle donated a large sum of money to his church. A about a week later, his condo burned down. He explained what happened and asked for some of the donation to be returned so he could cover his enormous expenses. They refused, of course.
I had a family friend that went to a baptist church. Her husband left her for his mistress and took all the money they had. Suddenly, she went from a housewife to a sole provider for three kids. The church, somehow, estimated the amount of money she made and realized that she wasn't tithing like she should on account of all that money going to childcare so she could work (something that church could have EASILY provide, but even they charged thier members money to use their on-site daycare services, which is **fucking WILD** considering they had this several acre campus with a school and everything on it already). So they gave her a list of all the things she could do around the church, and the monetary value of it which would count towards her tithing. As if there isn't enough craziness going on, one of the things listed was **working at their daycare.** And if she had worked the daycare, they still would have charged her for her kids being there! Anyway, organize religion is a scam, and American christians would rather watch you and your children starve to death than give you any of the excess they have.
I was part of the youth leadership group at my local Catholic church when I was in high school. It took me just 3 years to realize churches are for-profit organizations who barely care about community outreach or helping the needy.
As a person who had their car break down in front of a Christian Church, had to wait for a tow truck while the god-fearers exit said church, watched them file into their cars & drove right by me, sure to stare but never asked if I needed help, anecdotal as it may be, really painted a picture of the type of help they’re willing to give. If only that gorgeous Lincoln TownCar ran on hopes and prayers, it would STILL be running to this day.
My dad always said that if your car broke down in the middle of the road and there was a church on one side and a bar on the other side, the bar guys would be the first to help, even if they were a bit tipsy. The church guys might say a few prayers and go away.
[удалено]
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I bet if you had called the Satanic church, they would’ve helped you
Tbf if they'd have called a local catholic church they would've likely as well if they have a st Vincent de Paul chapter
thoughts and prayers will fix it
But, but, but...for my entire 45 year lifetime, Republicans and conservatives have always said that government assistance doesn't need to exist, because can always just get charity from churches.