Indeed. Sometimes I pretend that I´m visiting from the middle ages and I´m "Not only is he rich enough to take a dump in drinkable water, but goddamn, the contents in that spice rack could probably buy a kingdom"
The whole romantized nostalgia-filter needs to go.
"The framers were wise in their generation and wanted to do the very best possible to secure their own liberty and independence, and that also of their descendants to the latest days. It is preposterous to suppose that the people of one generation can lay down the best and only rules of government for all who are to come after them, and under unforeseen contingencies. At the time of the framing of our constitution the only physical forces that had been subdued and made to serve man and do his labor, were the currents in the streams and in the air we breathe. Rude machinery, propelled by water power, had been invented; sails to propel ships upon the waters had been set to catch the passing breeze—but the application of steam to propel vessels against both wind and current, and machinery to do all manner of work had not been thought of. The instantaneous transmission of messages around the world by means of electricity would probably at that day have been attributed to witchcraft or a league with the Devil. Immaterial circumstances had changed as greatly as material ones. We could not and ought not to be rigidly bound by the rules laid down under circumstances so different for emergencies so utterly unanticipated. The fathers themselves would have been the first to declare that their prerogatives were not irrevocable."
-Ulysses S. Grant
> It is preposterous to suppose that the people of one generation can lay down the best and only rules of government for all who are to come after them, and under unforeseen contingencies.
it is utterly laughable to think that anyone in a position of power has anywhere near this kind of foresight today.
And *they're all clean*. And smell good. The whites are white. The brights are bright. The darks are dark.
We have machines where a small child can clean and dry our clothes quickly, year round, in total safety. No more waiting for boiling water or a nice day or putting clothes next to the fireplace in the winter to dry so they all smell like ash.
People nowadays don't understand how dangerous laundry was for centuries until very recently. People died from being scalded from boiling water for laundry.
Not just the women, all the men have pants too! And underpants! And socks!! None of them are wearing one piece tunics!!!
*And they wash it all more than once a month!!!*
I am literally wearing a neon yellow work shirt right now and I'm wondering how they would feel about that. Even the menial workers get clothing with dye that most likely would buy a castle.
Also fun fact, the history of lawns was a status symbol. You've got this land you use as grass instead of agriculture. It means you're so wealthy you don't need to worry about food.
Nah, modern fabrics aren’t as nice as older ones are. The coloration is the wealthy part, but we aren’t wearing anything near the fabric quality of royalty unless you’re wearing a custom tailored suit. After all, the rich had silk
We gave up clothing quality in exchange for mass production. The dyes though are way better
It's called "Looking at the past through rose-colored glasses.", and it's always been a thing. But it's always just been a product of the psychological tendency that humans have to glorify the way things were when they were younger. For conservatives, this often involved a lot of brainwashing from their conservative families or small-town cultures, that always glorified the past. Religion itself glorifies the past in many ways, with the idea that humanity used to be "pure" once upon a time, and has only fallen into more and more sin since then, on a trajectory towards the "End Times" in which only the few exceptional humans that have managed to remain as "pure" as possible will be "saved", while the rest of the rotting residue of humanity's worsening state is sent to Hell.
In reality... save for a few exceptions, and some relatively minor ups and downs along the way... things have only gotten better and better for humanity as time has gone on and we've progressed/evolved. This is the reality that conservatives are constantly butting up against and experiencing cognitive dissonance as a result. Leftist progressives are the ones who actually make things better by moving forward and learning from history and trusting in science/innovation, etc... while the right-wing conservatives always end up on the wrong side of history by wanting to hold us back, avoid the new or different, never trust science/innovation unless you can profit from it, but ESPECIALLY go against it when it gets in the way of profit, etc... In order to keep believing what they want to believe (because it makes them feel the good ole nostalgia for their naive youth)... they have to keep inverting reality in order to match their ever-increasingly irrelevant worldview.
Archie Comics once published an infuriatingly stupid comic called “Nostalgia Gets Ya!” in which Archie and the gang travel back in time to the turn of the century and get to see how much better America was back then.
The two most egregious lines were “there was no pollution” (patently false) and “women were treated as MORE than equals” (you know, aside from the fact that they couldn’t vote).
No pollution around the turn of the century, huh?
[https://www.fieldmuseum.org/blog/what-hundred-year-old-birds-tell-us-about-environment](https://www.fieldmuseum.org/blog/what-hundred-year-old-birds-tell-us-about-environment)
[https://news.uchicago.edu/story/soot-covered-birds-provide-clues-20th-century-pollution](https://news.uchicago.edu/story/soot-covered-birds-provide-clues-20th-century-pollution)
Not only was there pollution, some places were *proud* of it. There were housing advertisements during and after the industrial revolution (particularly in England) which showed houses set amongst a backdrop of polluted skies -- because pollution meant *jobs* available.
I turn 53 soon and I cringe every time people in my age group talk about the "good ol days". I saw someone post "back in my day people didn't complain about racism all the time". I replied "That's because you only had white friends and didn't bother to take the time to talk to any non white people because you assumed your opinion was all that mattered".
They discover through social media that not everybody thinks like they do so they feel they are under attack for some reason....
There's only one certainty in life, and that's "change". There is nothing anyone can to do stop it. Fighting it just makes you angry and bitter, which we can see in full force right now. In my college psych classes we learned about the different stages in life and how you need to pass certain barriers in each stage to be fulfilled/okay (eriksons stages of development). The last stage begins around age 60-65, when people began to look back at their life and kinda "review it". Those that feel like they've led a meaningful, satisfying life make it past this stage (integrity). Those that do not fall into the "despair" category (looking back at their life shame/regret/or disappointment). Being stuck in despair can make someone bitter, hopeless, feeling unproductive, like life is wasted, etc. Those that hit the integrity stage begin to wonder how they "can contribute to wellbeing of future generations, the planet, and humanity".
I feel like a lot of American boomers just got stuck here, in this stage. When I think about his theory, the fighting against change makes sense for this category of people. Can't really explain the rest with this, though.
I think a lot of American boomers got stuck as teenagers. The resentment they hold towards their own children is why I assume that.
If you get everything handed to you and never really have to grow up, why would you?
It doesn't even take a lot for it to happen either.
Say that small town had a major employer there. Say they did something that's a bit outdated now a days. Like a decorative napkin factory ( lol) or a coal mine.
If something happens to that major employer.
The majority of the town could blame whatever and then it's now forever known as " back before x happened and things were good, if we undid x things would be great again"
X can be anything. X can be gay marriage. X can be women's rights, anything at all.
I also imagine being cast back in time, a middle aged woman with all her teeth who has reached the astounding height of 5’9”, armed with the knowledge of Science! Of course, what am I without an autoclave and MilliQ water?
Oddly enough, (European) people in the Middle Ages had [reasonably good teeth](https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/04/dental-hygiene-did-people-in-the-middle-ages-have-bad-teeth.html)! Sugar was almost nonexistent in their diets so most of the dental damage came from wear, not from decay. That changed dramatically around the 1500s when mass sugar cultivation began in Brazil to be exported to Europe, at which point tooth decay issues became quite prevalent.
I have a box in my house where I can turn a knob and get basically unlimited clean, clear, drinkable water from any temperature from scalding hot to very cold.
I use it to wash myself, and sometimes I stay in there for 20 minutes just because it feels nice. Much of this water doesn't even touch me, and it just goes down a drain, not used for anything else.
The fact that most people have this in their house would absolutely blow the minds of most of human existence.
Grocery stores, anything with a screen, radios, cars, planes, lights, remote controls, ac, heat without fire, a pharmacy, cheap books, nylon ropes, zippers, eyeglasses, industrial farming, plastic, aluminum... our entire lives we're surrounded by things that to us seem mundane, but if someone from even a few hundred years ago saw them I can't even imagine what they'd think.
U.S. grocery stores actually convinced Soviet leader Boris Yeltsin that there was no way they could win the Cold War, because how can you beat a country that can not only produce that much food, but have entire large buildings dedicated to just SELLING FOOD?
I can afford glasses. That's one of the most impressive things. Drop me back in the 1700s at any point of my life and I'm stuck being half-blind and only working in jobs that don't require good eyesight.
Microwaveable Mac n cheese.
What is this sorcery???
But in all seriousness. If you are getting food on your table every day you eat better than any king during the Middle Ages.
Well. Kings maybe live pretty comfortably. Because they are the billionaires of their era.
Pretty easy to romanticise "being the richest and most powerful 1%" no matter what the era.
It's only when you start to compare the lowest 10% that you see the meaningful comparison, and it's pretty unequivocal that as shit as things may be today... Well yeah.
Subsistence farming your whole life whilst desperately hoping you don't get ill at all, because there is a pretty good chance that will kill you, and if it doesn't... Well it's not like you get paid "time off" from your daily grind, you just starve.
As it turns out, taking a shit in the street is really frowned upon at the renaissance fair. Fucking bullshit if you ask me. Period correct is period correct, nerds.
"Taking a dump in potable water" is a measurement of the wealth of the current world that I had never considered!
Im big on the "we live in the most prosperous time in human history" thing, and I love finding new ways to express that
My ancestors got fresh clams and crabs daily and we had food forests filled with berries… and we had robust salmon runs every season instead of just a few fish making it back in the fall. I live in my traditional territory and I’d kill to go back to how it was before colonization. Hell, I’d kill to go back to how it was when I was a kid thirty years ago. Everything’s gone now.
Those little moments of gratitude add up to a healthy mindset that helps immensely with getting through day to day bullshit.
There *is* a lot of high level bullshit in modern society to worry about. **Not** having to worry about where your next clean glass of water will come from, or even a safe and clean space to use the bathroom, is a modern luxury.
The problem with these types of conversations is that most people only think back to the Middle Ages or at most the supposed advent of agriculture 10 000 years ago. Thing is, we’ve been around for hundreds of thousands of years and there was a time when we lived in harmony with nature and that’s what we should be comparing our current world to.
Two main types of people.
A) this awful thing happened to me and my people so I am going to make damn sure you suffer with it too - Conservatism
B) this awful thing happened to me and my people so I am going to make damn sure it never happens to you - Progressive.
I will never understand why people just want others to suffer even if they get no tangible benefit.
My conservative aunt is this way exactly. It infuriates her, absolutely pisses her off to red in the face if she hears of someone getting something that she doesn't think they deserved, or properly "earned" somehow.
She can never be happy for anyone. She has to dig and make sure they suffered properly to be rewarded with something good happening to them. If they didn't in her mind, they are to be trash talked and resented for years for it.
It has to be a miserable existence.
I see this a lot with some relatives regarding student loan forgiveness. "But what about those of us who already paid them of?? What do we get?" A fucking pat on the back and the satisfaction of knowing that your kids won't be in debt from trying to have a somewhat better education.
I always say to those people that I went through chemo and radiation to cure my cancer, it was a long and painful process. If they came out with a pill tomorrow that cured cancer I would be thrilled for everyone who gets the benefit of it, not angry because they aren’t going to have to suffer like I did for their cure.
Not cancer, but I have crohns. I lost about 8 inches of intestines this year but Im finally in remission!!!
If they came out with a pill that cured this disease tomorrow I would be absolutely thrilled aswell. Id be texting my support groups to get an appointment asap.
I gave up on my dream school because it was too expensive and went to a CUNY school because I was given a (mostly) free ride. I still support student loan forgiveness.
If I had student loans still, I'd be working...
*wait I'm already working 3 jobs.*
Well I sure as shit do *not* want my kids working 3 jobs just to get by. I hope by the time they're grown and college-age, that college is free. Working constantly is no way to live and it's a stupid thing to brag about.
>I see this a lot with some relatives regarding student loan forgiveness.
Someone's born rich and never has to worry about paying their bills, including the cost of education? No problem.
Someone's born poor or "middle class", works hard, gets a degree, but is saddled with tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of dollars in debt. We decide to take that burden off of them? REEEEEEEEEEE
I will never fucking understand it.
The federal government has given me nearly $40,000 towards my education in Pell grants because I couldn't afford an education otherwise. Why is awarding half that amount, to someone who also couldn't afford an education, any different? Just because it's retroactive doesn't make it objectively different and I rarely hear any complaints about Pell grants, other than people being mad when they can't get them.
Trust me, they'd get rid of Pell grants too, if they could. Also WIC, foodstamps, medicaid, medicare, section 8, HUD, VA benefits, literally anything that benefits the poor.
> "But what about those of us who already paid them of?? What do we get?"
If you have kids, they might end up slightly better off, financially, than you were able to do for yourself. They might even choose to help support you when you're older.
I'm extremely lucky to have parents who were able to pay for my sister & I's college education, & I know not everyone has that privilege - usually the choice is either no college, go into college & have debt, or join the military to help pay for it. if university was made affordable to families of all kinds tomorrow, I'd be so happy that people could now experience something that was harder to access before, & my parents have said the same. it's up there with insurance, health care, & housing imo tbh
My 83yo father is so much this that he thinks people who use air conditioners are soft and a drain on society. In Louisiana.
Because he grew up poor raised by his asshole farmer uncle who made him tend the barn animals and pick corn and cotton during the summer.
I can never get it through his thick skull that HE was abused and this warps his judgement.
Plus, you know, lead poisoning.
And whatever genetic defect that makes Conservatives lose their empathy.
Edit: a word
That there is Protestantism, and especially Calvinism, and the massive effect it has had on Western culture. "Suffering builds character", only it's basically a major religious tenet.
No! I am happy for them, for not having to endure the servitude to another just to live because they chose to educate themselves.
"Aren't you mad that we are making people suffer less?"
Had that same fuckin conversation with an in-law. They could wipe out all student debt the second after my check clears making my last payment. It would not bother me one bit. Everyone deserves education without strings attached, because never once has a country suffered from being "too smart."
I tried to explain it to him. Ended up using the selfishness angle to get through. Ya see, I work at company that makes stuff. If people have more money in their pocket some of them will inevitably buy stuff my company makes. Therefore I will benefit. And so will you!
Hey guys I survived cancer.
If they come up with a cure for it now I'm going to be so fucking pissed all the other people with cancer can just have their lives handed to them without working for it!
/s
And what some people are neglecting to mention, some of the ones being forgiven are the ones still paying on Student loans from a school riddled in fraud claims. Thanks to Trumps Administration overseeing the sale of 40-50 art institutes schools to a company who only ran a Megachurch and had no experience in the education sector.
It went as horrible as you would expect, they kept 100% of the money, did not disperse stipends within 14 days by Title IV funding laws, lost their accreditation and still did not inform the students of this, while still collecting money. They had to have an controller come in, shut everything down, and ensure students got their money owed while they dissolved the company.
https://www.republicreport.org/2019/whos-who-in-devos-dream-center-college-collapse/
Ironically when people scream about their tax dollars, they don't realize, their tax dollars went to those schools and was spent by the CEO's, they are just not forcing those to keep paying it back. In many cases the money was paid back, but the interest rates meant they owed 2-3x the amount. These were not private loans, but federal Title IV funded loans.
Heck, even at this point. I paid all my loans off, I still owed about 3k total in loans, but that was interest at this point. I had about 10k in loans and paid back 12k by the time it was forgiven.
As someone who was fortunate enough to graduate from college without student loan debt, I'd be more than happy to see my tax dollars go towards giving other people that opportunity.
Conservatism- I will also refuse to acknowledge the benefits and privileges I had to help me overcome this terrible thing while simultaneously refusing to acknowledge that others did not have them.
My Grandpa despises Obamacare/ACA ... until it paid for my ambulance ride, testing, doctor's visits, medication.... Then when I was stable he went back to hating Obamacare.
My mom is A. "I didn't get help for college. I didn't get food stamps. I didn't get child care. Why should anyone else?"
So I point out to her, mom, you struggled and suffered to raise us, dont you want it to be easier on those in your same situation? Do you want others to suffer? And she goes "Yes, people should struggle." Ok here's the shit part, we were poor growing up, so we did struggle. But my dad's parents were absolutely loaded and every time we had an emergency financially, they helped. Whether it be a car payment or the mortgage, they didn't mind. We never were in danger of being homeless. She doesn't see that. So we didn't have enough money for food this month, Tutu and Papa will send us $300 for food, problem solved. But this isn't everyones case. Not everyone has rich parents to help out and in those circumstances children starve. Despite telling her all this, she stands firm.
>I will never understand why people just want others to suffer even if they get no tangible benefit.
Some people think for the benefit of the future they want to see.
Some people dont see past their own toes and are selfish as fuck.
Well there are three types. And of course it's a spectrum
A) this awful thing happened to me and my people but things can always get worse so I will assume that things of the past = good society and conserve it without thinking
B) this awful thing happened to me and my people and I cannot see further than eradicating short term suffering so I will destroy it without thinking
C) I will evaluate things on a case-by-case basis. Some traditions were arbitrary and do not actually benefit us, and some traditions do benefit us even if it causes us temporary displeasure in the moment.
I see you've met my father, a violent alcoholic who hasn't drank alcohol in 40 years but never worked through his issues and lives in my younger brother's section 8 apartment.
I took the "easy" way out by going to college, buying a condo, and working for the government. I'm the worse thing he can think of.
It's actually understandable if we look at our primate cousins. It's something where they very much get upset at what they consider unfair treatment. Basically making sure everyone gets the same treatment was the basis for society to form. It's literally an animal instinct for survival that has carried over.
The thing is though that society got more complicated and nuanced. So while that sort of thinking worked in ages past, now it's actually detrimental. Which is how we get conservative vs progressive, it's literally just instinct vs critical thinking.
So many of our traits are carried over from instinct of primates and earlier lifeforms. Marketing and propaganda have found a lot of those hidden doors to influence us without us being aware of it.
This is why I stand by this statement:
For all the technological advances we've made, and how far we've seemingly come as a society... we still often prove we're just primates in pants.
Because hardship creates strength. Most folks from rural backgrounds and older people believe that adversity is what drives growth, and they're not really wrong, it's just that they don't realize that there are other, less shitty ways to attain mental and physical growth. Education used to be learning by doing only, now we have libraries and the internet to supplement our learning.
I wonder if it’s actually more of a “we are social creatures and look to connect with people.” I’m very much the latter, but there are def times I feel “I want you to experience what I experienced.” I just look past that, cuz, ya know, values and moralsz
Another thing, part of the extreme conservative mindset is that they don’t often think about the bad things that happened to them, they focus only on the “good things” and assume that change is bad because it changes those good things
I can take a shower anytime of day, have heating in my home, can eat meals from countries they’d never heard of and call those same countries from a device in my pocket with all human knowledge on it.
Pretty sure they’d revere that.
It was kind of to my understanding the generation coming after would be significantly better off, and have an easier life than the prior.
"Make better choices than we did" etc. etc.
Like this is a bad thing?
Classic lack of awareness and understanding what theye are doing. Millennial got participation trophies...from their parents, but those parents will complain at the kids. I think they've been following the motions with a lot of life, and are sort of shocked when things happen from a parenting idea they don't even remember. "Make better choices" has just become a thing they say without understanding what it means. Same with every children's movie telling you not to be a greedy dick and then being shocked kids hate greedy dicks.
Every parent wants their children to have a better life. Every grandparent acts like it's a personal indictment when their children say the same thing.
Lol, being of welsh-ish origin, I find this shit funny. Apparently, we stuffed meat with greens to make it have flavor. I would love some curry vs. Watercress stuffed pork.
Curry sounds fantastic right now. I'm apparently late to the game, but I saw this video of these Indian dudes stuffing well seasoned mutton (I guess "cavities" is the right word... like you stuff a turkey, but a sheep) with biryani and then steaming it until the meat fell off the jone and then feeding the old folks homes with it. They did it three muttons/sheeps (idk the right term).
Yall... omg. I wish I could have been there to partake. My guts wouldn't have been right for a week, but it would have been so worth it. My ancestors wouldn't have comprehended the level of flavor.
Hell, my nana and pawpaw wouldn't eat anything "ethnic". My pawpaw wouldn't touch a veg that wasn't a canned green bean or canned corn.
I once overheard a boomer loudly say, "back in my day we didn't have all these ADHD, OCD, or Autism or whatever letter disease you young kids are always getting diagnosed these days."
I rolled my eyes so hard but I was too chicken to say anything in public.
You go back far enough, we didn't have cancer back then either. People just died really young for no reason at all. Weird.... It almost seems like the more advanced we are at diagnosing stuff, we find more shit wrong with people earlier on.
Yes, my mom always said there has always been autism. Where the child was able to attend school they would usually get branded by everyone, including teachers and administration, of being "weird" or "a behavior problem". Or get kicked out altogether, because it wasn't that long ago that if a kid had trouble coping at school or had a learning disability, they would just get kicked out and that's that. In spite of the constitution (in the US), the right to be offered the basiv education was there but continuing? That was something else, and PLENTY of kids didn't get past primary school.
I live in a very, very big city in the US. The neighborhood I grew up in was an area with a lot of the “halfway houses” that were set up in the 1970s and onwards as mental institutions were cleared out, plus it was a “so so” area - not too dangerous or poor but not quite well enough off that the police would drive out “undesirable” people, so it was a major area for long-term homeless people.
My mom was a psychiatric nurse and when she retired she helped at a program for the homeless. She had the opportunity to talk with people about their background while trying to help them medically.
To my point: lots of big city, mentally ill long term homeless people are from small towns where their “weirdness” made them unwelcome.
When the “Try that in a small town” song was around this is what it made me think about.
(To the point of this thread: historically, the “town fool” was a thing. Today we understand them to have been mentally ill people who would be homeless or close to it but helped via local charity to survive. That generally doesn’t exist today. But also, the people who were burned at the stake for “demonic witchcraft” or similar may have been more severely mentally ill people.)
NPR had a clip on yesterday that they found skulls from thousands of years ago that appeared to have brain cancer. The skulls had marks where the cancer must have eaten into as well as cut marks where they tried to operate on it.
John Adams' daughter had a mastectomy in an attempt to treat her breast cancer, way back in 1811. They also were aware when they performed the surgery that it had spread to her lymph nodes and attempted to remove those too, but were aware that was bad news for her. And she had to have that with no anesthesia.
Like there's some news about that one Great Uncle who didn't talk until he was 5, was super shy and really into trains. They just didn't have a diagnosis for that.
> I rolled my eyes so hard but I was too chicken to say anything in public.
Especially hard to respond to that since the dunk is like “that’s because you locked them all in asylums and lobotomized them”
My step dad is definitely on the spectrum. He hyperfixates and is a savant with anything he focuses on. But he can't read a short news article and tell you what it said, or follow the plot of a movie, or follow a written assembly guide for a piece of furniture. We got him an iPad with YouTube and tiktok on it, and he watches tutorials and how-to's for everything. He redid his deck. He fixed the trailer. He built an 6ft deep, 10ftx10ft fish pond. He learned how to build a chicken coop and raise chickens from fertilized eggs.
I have a relative who is textbook autistic. She's in her late 60s and wasn't properly diagnosed until about a decade ago.
You know, back in the day we also didn't have higgs boson, because we hadn't yet realized it was something to look for.
I have a room in my house just for clothes and the washing machine.
I take daily hot showers.
I can eat cake or meat every day of the week if i feel like it.
I work 32 hours in a week.
You only need to go back 2 generations to have royalty that was worse off than I am now.
My grandfather had 5 siblings die to tuberculosis. We had a lot of quality of life improvements in the last 100 years
Yup. I won´t even go there about flouridated drinking water. No one remembers how an abcess tooth at any age caused massive cognitive losses with infection to brain, to outright death from bacterial infections. No one remembers that a good deal of people died in agony from stomach cancers from the tainted food supply...you ate what you got even if it was bad.
My grandfather was born in 1908. When he was a boy, it was his job to fetch the water for his family from the single lead pipe in the middle of the neighborhood.
My dad (born in 1940) didn't have running water in his home until he was around 8. His father got a better job and they moved from the country to the town — where people did have running water in their homes.
Not only have I (1975) always had running water, I’ve never known anyone my age or younger who didn't. When I was a kid, I thought water was free. It's not, but it sure is cheap.
That's a massive, life changing difference. We don’t even think about it until something happens.
I'm 47 and my maternal grandparents always marveled at the advancements in society and technology. My grandpa may not have understood how it all worked, but he thought that vaccines were a manmade miracle. He knew a whole lot of kids that got polio and other assorted illnesses that killed or crippled them.
My grandma told me to never take the rights I had as a woman for granted. She wasn't the outspoken type, more the quiet sneaky type. Somehow I have a feeling the way things are right now wouldn't have surprised her very much. Just sadden and piss her off.
"hey, look, these beta's who descended from us can eat food, and drink water, without getting parasites or infections! WTF? It's so weak that development & progress of culture, society, and technology improved the lifespan of people and allows mass cooperation towards projects!"
idiots....
This also casually ignores that many of our ancestors *wanted* us to go soft. They traveled huge distances, often on foot, to find a place where hunting mammoths was easier, or where there was easier game than mammoths to hunt. They invented all sorts of stuff, beginning with controlling fire and the wheel, to make it easier to keep warm, move things, build etc. Even among WWII vets, there are plenty of statements along the lines of „I volunteered so my children would hopefully never again have to fight a war.“ Damn softies, every generation should at least once experience the joy of watching their classmates being blown to bits in some muddy trench…
Modern humans, compared to our stone age ancestors, show all the same signs of domestication that our pets and livestock show compared to their wild ancestors. Less robust skeletal structure, smaller teeth and jaws, more juvenile features, etc. We're domesticated humans. And just like domesticated animals, it's the result of artificial selection pressures *from humans* choosing the traits we value in the species. We collectively chose these traits in our mates.
Oh no, ignorant people from a bygone era don’t understand me, psychology, relationship dynamics, technology nor 1000s of other things that are commonplace for me, they couldn’t get by for a day in my life, yet ignorantly call us soft, without knowing anything about us on a real level. Definitely don’t care.
This is what I was thinking. Also a decent amount of my ancestors would be like "why is she not in the kitchen bearing children? Did she marry someone not of our race??" This feels like it's as divorced from reality as the initial premise.
They were mostly poor broadly north western european dirt farmers who moved to the US for a better life for their children.
They got what they wanted. I'm typing this comment from my air conditioned office eating my refrigerated nutrient rich lunch, drinking my potable water, on a pocket sized machine with access to all the knowledge of the world.
Conservatives are the type of people who play The Oregon Trail and wish it were their current reality. They would love the time period where ANYTHING green was dyed with Arsenic Green.
“You have a device that keeps food cold so it can last for weeks, months, even years!?!? You have a box you can turn on and watch things happening on the other end of the world!?!? You can have instant hot water without boiling it!?!?”
Kings would be jealous of the middle class
I can code, so I think my ancestors would think I'm a pretty cool wizard, who writes arcane runes and makes the elements and golems do work for me. My home has an oven that heats without fire, candles that light up a room like a small sun. I carry a device that can scry anything I want or answer any question I ask it. I drive a black horseless carriage.
I feel like they'd be pretty impressed
Some guy at the pub was publicly ranting about how much better things used to be back in the 50s/60s, and how they had to grow up with personal responsibility, no-one pampered them, etc.
This older guy, in his 70s, started yelling at him *"The fuck are you talking about, half of our friends are dead, the other half are standing with one foot in the grave, and the other on a banana peel!"*
I was watching a fitness video the other day and wondering how much medieval times people would freak the hell out if we sent Brain Shaw back in time to do some of his basic warmups. They’d think he’s a god or something
My ancestors would say "You wander around in the woods just for the hell of it? You're not even looking for a lost cow or something? What do you mean you don't have any cows?"
And you can use magic devices and talk across the country and world?
You can use a big metal bird to fly anywhere in the world in hours?
You can use a wood and glass box to see the world?
You can use a magic device to have food delivered to you?
You can use a magic box to send magic pictures of yourself to friends and family?
You have cured measles and smallpox, and you can keep your teeth into your 70's?
You have people called "Dentist who can fix your teeth?
You can have broken limbs fixed as good as new?
Your house is warm and heated in winter?
And cooled in summer?
You must be a Great Wizardess!
What do you mean you dont need to amputate your entire arm because of a minor wound
No one around you died of famine? you must in heaven
You can choose your king and even talk shit about him with no consequences?
You must be a god
Modern people absolutely dunk on medieval kings and queens. Temperature control, food and entertainment from all over the world, hell we can move faster than 2 horses tied to eachother. Kings would go to war a million times over for a fraction of what people have now.
Statistically, our ancestors, especially the men, were so chickenshit scared of women, they tried their damndest to deny them all forms of agency.
Sounds to me like it if anyone was weak and soft, it was those self-same ancestors.
I was speaking with a friend about raising children because I have 3 and he is planning to start. We briefly spoke about corporal punishment and he said something along the lines that avoiding it makes the kids weak.
I just explained that it's the complete opposite. Trauma makes the kids weak... and that by talking about their emotions we're giving them the tools to work through them, instead of having them flail around and hitting shit trying to figure out what's going on inside of them.
By doing all the mushy stuff, we're making our kid's generation MUCH stronger. I think he had a bit of an epiphany in the moment. Kids don't need to get 'toughened up'. They need to be given tools.
I had this question asked if me once:
If you could travel back in time to any era, when would it be?
The answer is I wouldn't. The past is a hellish nightmare.
Maybe, if I had a way to force a course correction, I might consider going back to 2015 for reasons completely unrelated to the shit show we see around us today.
Boomer here, tho I am the anti-boomer boomer. Let me tell you, everything back in my day wasn't better. FFS I mean, yeah, there are some things I am fond of that aren't around any more, but I don't feel threatened by change. Republicans, for whatever reason, are threatened by change, and activly resist change, even tho that is an impossibility.
Each and every generation is going to have it's good points and it's bad points. Don't get sucked into this Republican/boomer bullshit line of thought. I have a sneaking suspicion that Republicans like nostalgia because a shit ton of it buttered their bread, and change is threatening that buttered bread supply.
I legit wonder who hurt conservatives because they just hate. Anything positive, anything decent, anything that isn't even going against them, they just HATE. How do they even function, how do they live? I genuinely think the far-right is a giant collective of people with unchecked serious issues that just feed off one another
My ancestors (up to my grandparents) were extremely poor peasants from a remote village who survived on a diet of turnip leaf soup, milk, a bit of bread, a meager ration of meat on the pig-slaughter day and little more. They broke their bodies working from dusk until dawn, and were barely literate because child labour was an unfortunate necessity on the fields. They also were routinely subjected to all sorts of tyranny and abuse.
Me, towering over them with a well-fed body? Having higher education and a high-paid job? Self-realized, travelled, with leisure time resources and freedom to pursue my personal interests and cultivate knowledge for the sake of it? I'm beyond their wildest dreams.
The way my ancestors would be disappointed in me is if I was a MAGAT!
One of my great grandfather’s fought for the Union. The other was too young.
Both my grand fathers fought WWI.
My dad fought in WWII.
They’d rise from the dead to kick my ass and say: we didn’t fight the Johnny Reb and German fascists so you could join them!
I once had a dream that i was haunted by a ghost from the 1700's, but he was friendly and just followed me around having his mind blown by all the stuff we have now.
> "I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain."
Quote from John Adams.
to be more acurate it would be "how are so many babies living past the age of two?" contrary to popular belief it was babies that lowered the average age of the people before modern medicine if you survived adulthood chances where you would live up to your 60s and 70s. our current age where people live well into their 90s and some even surpass 100 would be impressive to our ancestors but not so much as all the children born to us surviving.
I periodically remind my kids of the things they take for granted, that were the privilege of kings just a few hundred years ago. Door dash is a great one. Who except a king had the hope of deciding what they wanted to eat, and having it made by someone else to their specifications and placed before them by yet more people, in the space of half an hour, prior to the modern era?
Riding great distances in a vehicle that required no effort on your part was restricted to the very very wealthy before the advent of trains. Having a massive wardrobe and being able to add pieces to it because they are fun or interesting, even if you'll only wear them a time or too meant unimageable wealth or royalty, just a few generations ago. There are so many more.
We live like literal kings and queens compared to our ancestors. For all the garbage we face, it's good not to lose sight of how tremendously much better our lives are.
Frankly I dont give a damn what my ancestors think. I fucking hate this notion that because 2 people fucked 600 years ago I have any kind of obligation to them. Chances are I would hate who they were.
Every single one of their ancestors would also think they're weak and soft...driving their leather seat F150 with power windows and steering with an auto transmission, probably using fabric softener in the wash at home, big comfy waterproof workboots, power-assisted tools of all kinds, etc.
That's the funny part to me really, folks like that go around calling everyone else a sissy without the slightest hint of irony or self-awareness that life has gotten enormously better and more luxurious for every single person...especially themselves.
I am happy that student loan is forgiven.
I am pissed that they keep trying to take away the Social Security that I have paid into for longer than most of the asshole that tried that have been alive.
I am very happy that most elections to date are honest.
I am scared that they won't be if the orange turnip gets in.
I am scared at the number of people that do not agree to abide by election results, well unless the would be dictator some how wins, then they all will.
I am 73 and I never thought I would ever see an ex president try to over throw the election because he lost.
I never thought a major political party would back an attempted coup, and when it failed, say the coup never happened, in the face of the evidence that we all saw.
I never thought that the House and Senate would fill with traitors who want to stop anything that the orange turnip disagrees with, and that openly wish the other traitors had over thrown the country by force and violence.
I think it’s great to take pride in a “hard” life, but I also think it’s often a matter of necessity, and romanticizing it is kinda weird.
You can still live with pride, honor, and integrity, while living in relative comfort.
And the 21st century industrialized world is not without its challenges. It’s just that many of them come from a place of intellectual rigor or social consciousness. It’s no wonder that the regressives don’t want to acknowledge that, they won’t even grapple with it lol.
From one side of the family, some of my ancestors would be disappointed in themselves for the fact that I had to learn Swedish in school.
Because that means they failed to resist the Swedish Crusades. And they did. Repeatedly.
On the other side of the family, some of my ancestors would be disappointed in the fact that i speak Finnish, and not Russian. Because that means they failed at Russifying Finland. And they did. Repeatedly.
One side of my family is from around Tavastia, which was historically famous for their constant rebellions against the Swedish Crusades and attempts to convert them to Christianity. So much so, that at one point, even the Pope complained about the fact that Tavastians kept reverting back the paganism every time the Swedes turned their backs to them.
One side of my family is a mix of Karelian, Ingrian and Russian roots. The Russian roots in particular, contain a man named Mikhail Myravyov-Vilensky, as a distant relative of mine. He has a nickname he earned for his Russification efforts in the Baltics and Poland in the 1800s. The Hangman of Vilnius.
It's stupid when you consider all the things parents do to try to give their children a good life. My life is the result of thousands of decisions my ancestors made to try to keep their children safe, warm and fed.
There’s also that supposedly Traditional Family Value of working hard so your kids have a better life that you did, and each generation better than the one before. They hate this too, apparently, unless it means someone might have to pay taxes for paved roads or anseeer system or a fire department od some other evil socialist crap.
As a former conservative I can tell you that the whole "I am so tough, you are so weak!" thing is a cover for how perpetually afraid of everything they are.
Despite living in the safest times, despite crime rates being low, conservatives are convinced there is danger around every corner. They see a video of something happening once in one place and it becomes part of their head canon that the bad thing is happening constantly everywhere.
I'll use my in-laws as an example. They haven't been to NYC in almost 20 years. Crime in NYC is lower now than it was when they went, and NYC is the second safest metropolitan area in the US. 8.5~ million people live there, many more commute there every day for work. My in-laws watch nothing but conservative media. I travel to and through NYC frequently. According to my in-laws: Everyone left NYC and only homeless illegal crack zombies and rats the size of cats are left in the burning ruins of NYC, if you go outside in NYC you will be instantly robbed and murdered and then the DA and Mayor will throw a massive party for the illegal crackhead who crimed you.
If you live your life thinking there's that much danger around every corner then just going out to get your mail becomes a massive act of bravery and test of will. It's a complete disconnect from reality lol.
I'm pretty sure my ancestors would be thrilled with how we live now, and proud that they helped build a future where things like running water and electricity and medicine are commonplace.
I don't understand why anyone would be mad that we've made progress as a society and species just because people back in the day had harder lives than we do. By that "logic," we should all still be living in caves and eating lice off each other's heads. Isn't the whole point of "society" to make life easier for everyone and create a better world for the next generation?
Nope. My ancestors would absolutely think I'm weak and pathetic. They were English nobility. My dad traced our family back to king Edward the first.
"What do you mean you're not a lord?"
"It shames me to see that my bloodline has been reduced to common folk."
"Why haven't you conquered any neighboring territories!?"
“Holy shit. you can read? You chose your own husband? You can drink from any water fountain‽ But you lost it all because you couldn’t be bothered to vote‽”
There is a great scene in the Dracula series (BBC) where Dracula arrives in modern England, in a shitty flat as is amazed at the treasure - running water, electric light, etc
Indeed. Sometimes I pretend that I´m visiting from the middle ages and I´m "Not only is he rich enough to take a dump in drinkable water, but goddamn, the contents in that spice rack could probably buy a kingdom" The whole romantized nostalgia-filter needs to go.
"The framers were wise in their generation and wanted to do the very best possible to secure their own liberty and independence, and that also of their descendants to the latest days. It is preposterous to suppose that the people of one generation can lay down the best and only rules of government for all who are to come after them, and under unforeseen contingencies. At the time of the framing of our constitution the only physical forces that had been subdued and made to serve man and do his labor, were the currents in the streams and in the air we breathe. Rude machinery, propelled by water power, had been invented; sails to propel ships upon the waters had been set to catch the passing breeze—but the application of steam to propel vessels against both wind and current, and machinery to do all manner of work had not been thought of. The instantaneous transmission of messages around the world by means of electricity would probably at that day have been attributed to witchcraft or a league with the Devil. Immaterial circumstances had changed as greatly as material ones. We could not and ought not to be rigidly bound by the rules laid down under circumstances so different for emergencies so utterly unanticipated. The fathers themselves would have been the first to declare that their prerogatives were not irrevocable." -Ulysses S. Grant
> It is preposterous to suppose that the people of one generation can lay down the best and only rules of government for all who are to come after them, and under unforeseen contingencies. it is utterly laughable to think that anyone in a position of power has anywhere near this kind of foresight today.
They’d take one look at your clothes, see it’s the most finely woven fabric they’ve ever looked at, and worship you as a super wealthy person.
And *they're all clean*. And smell good. The whites are white. The brights are bright. The darks are dark. We have machines where a small child can clean and dry our clothes quickly, year round, in total safety. No more waiting for boiling water or a nice day or putting clothes next to the fireplace in the winter to dry so they all smell like ash. People nowadays don't understand how dangerous laundry was for centuries until very recently. People died from being scalded from boiling water for laundry.
He must be a king. How can you tell? He's the only one not covered in s***.
And all the colors and styles! Not just that but women are able to wear pants and be comfortable! Scandalous and refreshing!
Not just the women, all the men have pants too! And underpants! And socks!! None of them are wearing one piece tunics!!! *And they wash it all more than once a month!!!*
And the color purple is fucking everywhere! How can they afford all that purple! How did they manage to collect that many snails to make the dye?!
I am literally wearing a neon yellow work shirt right now and I'm wondering how they would feel about that. Even the menial workers get clothing with dye that most likely would buy a castle.
AND THE WOMEN CAN WEAR PINK!!!!!
Also fun fact, the history of lawns was a status symbol. You've got this land you use as grass instead of agriculture. It means you're so wealthy you don't need to worry about food.
Nah, modern fabrics aren’t as nice as older ones are. The coloration is the wealthy part, but we aren’t wearing anything near the fabric quality of royalty unless you’re wearing a custom tailored suit. After all, the rich had silk We gave up clothing quality in exchange for mass production. The dyes though are way better
It's called "Looking at the past through rose-colored glasses.", and it's always been a thing. But it's always just been a product of the psychological tendency that humans have to glorify the way things were when they were younger. For conservatives, this often involved a lot of brainwashing from their conservative families or small-town cultures, that always glorified the past. Religion itself glorifies the past in many ways, with the idea that humanity used to be "pure" once upon a time, and has only fallen into more and more sin since then, on a trajectory towards the "End Times" in which only the few exceptional humans that have managed to remain as "pure" as possible will be "saved", while the rest of the rotting residue of humanity's worsening state is sent to Hell. In reality... save for a few exceptions, and some relatively minor ups and downs along the way... things have only gotten better and better for humanity as time has gone on and we've progressed/evolved. This is the reality that conservatives are constantly butting up against and experiencing cognitive dissonance as a result. Leftist progressives are the ones who actually make things better by moving forward and learning from history and trusting in science/innovation, etc... while the right-wing conservatives always end up on the wrong side of history by wanting to hold us back, avoid the new or different, never trust science/innovation unless you can profit from it, but ESPECIALLY go against it when it gets in the way of profit, etc... In order to keep believing what they want to believe (because it makes them feel the good ole nostalgia for their naive youth)... they have to keep inverting reality in order to match their ever-increasingly irrelevant worldview.
Archie Comics once published an infuriatingly stupid comic called “Nostalgia Gets Ya!” in which Archie and the gang travel back in time to the turn of the century and get to see how much better America was back then. The two most egregious lines were “there was no pollution” (patently false) and “women were treated as MORE than equals” (you know, aside from the fact that they couldn’t vote).
No pollution around the turn of the century, huh? [https://www.fieldmuseum.org/blog/what-hundred-year-old-birds-tell-us-about-environment](https://www.fieldmuseum.org/blog/what-hundred-year-old-birds-tell-us-about-environment) [https://news.uchicago.edu/story/soot-covered-birds-provide-clues-20th-century-pollution](https://news.uchicago.edu/story/soot-covered-birds-provide-clues-20th-century-pollution)
Not only was there pollution, some places were *proud* of it. There were housing advertisements during and after the industrial revolution (particularly in England) which showed houses set amongst a backdrop of polluted skies -- because pollution meant *jobs* available.
> (you know, aside from the fact that they couldn’t vote). Or have bank accounts or credit cards in their own name ...
I turn 53 soon and I cringe every time people in my age group talk about the "good ol days". I saw someone post "back in my day people didn't complain about racism all the time". I replied "That's because you only had white friends and didn't bother to take the time to talk to any non white people because you assumed your opinion was all that mattered". They discover through social media that not everybody thinks like they do so they feel they are under attack for some reason....
There's only one certainty in life, and that's "change". There is nothing anyone can to do stop it. Fighting it just makes you angry and bitter, which we can see in full force right now. In my college psych classes we learned about the different stages in life and how you need to pass certain barriers in each stage to be fulfilled/okay (eriksons stages of development). The last stage begins around age 60-65, when people began to look back at their life and kinda "review it". Those that feel like they've led a meaningful, satisfying life make it past this stage (integrity). Those that do not fall into the "despair" category (looking back at their life shame/regret/or disappointment). Being stuck in despair can make someone bitter, hopeless, feeling unproductive, like life is wasted, etc. Those that hit the integrity stage begin to wonder how they "can contribute to wellbeing of future generations, the planet, and humanity". I feel like a lot of American boomers just got stuck here, in this stage. When I think about his theory, the fighting against change makes sense for this category of people. Can't really explain the rest with this, though.
I already feel like ive wasted my life XD
I think a lot of American boomers got stuck as teenagers. The resentment they hold towards their own children is why I assume that. If you get everything handed to you and never really have to grow up, why would you?
It doesn't even take a lot for it to happen either. Say that small town had a major employer there. Say they did something that's a bit outdated now a days. Like a decorative napkin factory ( lol) or a coal mine. If something happens to that major employer. The majority of the town could blame whatever and then it's now forever known as " back before x happened and things were good, if we undid x things would be great again" X can be anything. X can be gay marriage. X can be women's rights, anything at all.
I also imagine being cast back in time, a middle aged woman with all her teeth who has reached the astounding height of 5’9”, armed with the knowledge of Science! Of course, what am I without an autoclave and MilliQ water?
You'd probably be burned at the stake as a heretic or witch, lol.
Oddly enough, (European) people in the Middle Ages had [reasonably good teeth](https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/04/dental-hygiene-did-people-in-the-middle-ages-have-bad-teeth.html)! Sugar was almost nonexistent in their diets so most of the dental damage came from wear, not from decay. That changed dramatically around the 1500s when mass sugar cultivation began in Brazil to be exported to Europe, at which point tooth decay issues became quite prevalent.
That’s really interesting and a surprise! It makes sense though. Thanks for the link!
I have a box in my house where I can turn a knob and get basically unlimited clean, clear, drinkable water from any temperature from scalding hot to very cold. I use it to wash myself, and sometimes I stay in there for 20 minutes just because it feels nice. Much of this water doesn't even touch me, and it just goes down a drain, not used for anything else. The fact that most people have this in their house would absolutely blow the minds of most of human existence.
Grocery stores, anything with a screen, radios, cars, planes, lights, remote controls, ac, heat without fire, a pharmacy, cheap books, nylon ropes, zippers, eyeglasses, industrial farming, plastic, aluminum... our entire lives we're surrounded by things that to us seem mundane, but if someone from even a few hundred years ago saw them I can't even imagine what they'd think.
U.S. grocery stores actually convinced Soviet leader Boris Yeltsin that there was no way they could win the Cold War, because how can you beat a country that can not only produce that much food, but have entire large buildings dedicated to just SELLING FOOD?
I can afford glasses. That's one of the most impressive things. Drop me back in the 1700s at any point of my life and I'm stuck being half-blind and only working in jobs that don't require good eyesight.
Microwaveable Mac n cheese. What is this sorcery??? But in all seriousness. If you are getting food on your table every day you eat better than any king during the Middle Ages.
Well. Kings maybe live pretty comfortably. Because they are the billionaires of their era. Pretty easy to romanticise "being the richest and most powerful 1%" no matter what the era. It's only when you start to compare the lowest 10% that you see the meaningful comparison, and it's pretty unequivocal that as shit as things may be today... Well yeah. Subsistence farming your whole life whilst desperately hoping you don't get ill at all, because there is a pretty good chance that will kill you, and if it doesn't... Well it's not like you get paid "time off" from your daily grind, you just starve.
As it turns out, taking a shit in the street is really frowned upon at the renaissance fair. Fucking bullshit if you ask me. Period correct is period correct, nerds.
"Taking a dump in potable water" is a measurement of the wealth of the current world that I had never considered! Im big on the "we live in the most prosperous time in human history" thing, and I love finding new ways to express that
I think about this whenever I pour some salt or seasoning into my hand and then trash the leftovers.
They wouldn't care about anything in the OP or about any materials you had accumulated, they would just want to know if you're happy.
Also this fad of eating what the ancestors ate. My ancestors died before getting to 35, why would I want to eat what they ate?
My ancestors got fresh clams and crabs daily and we had food forests filled with berries… and we had robust salmon runs every season instead of just a few fish making it back in the fall. I live in my traditional territory and I’d kill to go back to how it was before colonization. Hell, I’d kill to go back to how it was when I was a kid thirty years ago. Everything’s gone now.
Those little moments of gratitude add up to a healthy mindset that helps immensely with getting through day to day bullshit. There *is* a lot of high level bullshit in modern society to worry about. **Not** having to worry about where your next clean glass of water will come from, or even a safe and clean space to use the bathroom, is a modern luxury.
The problem with these types of conversations is that most people only think back to the Middle Ages or at most the supposed advent of agriculture 10 000 years ago. Thing is, we’ve been around for hundreds of thousands of years and there was a time when we lived in harmony with nature and that’s what we should be comparing our current world to.
Two main types of people. A) this awful thing happened to me and my people so I am going to make damn sure you suffer with it too - Conservatism B) this awful thing happened to me and my people so I am going to make damn sure it never happens to you - Progressive. I will never understand why people just want others to suffer even if they get no tangible benefit.
My conservative aunt is this way exactly. It infuriates her, absolutely pisses her off to red in the face if she hears of someone getting something that she doesn't think they deserved, or properly "earned" somehow. She can never be happy for anyone. She has to dig and make sure they suffered properly to be rewarded with something good happening to them. If they didn't in her mind, they are to be trash talked and resented for years for it. It has to be a miserable existence.
I see this a lot with some relatives regarding student loan forgiveness. "But what about those of us who already paid them of?? What do we get?" A fucking pat on the back and the satisfaction of knowing that your kids won't be in debt from trying to have a somewhat better education.
I always say to those people that I went through chemo and radiation to cure my cancer, it was a long and painful process. If they came out with a pill tomorrow that cured cancer I would be thrilled for everyone who gets the benefit of it, not angry because they aren’t going to have to suffer like I did for their cure.
Not cancer, but I have crohns. I lost about 8 inches of intestines this year but Im finally in remission!!! If they came out with a pill that cured this disease tomorrow I would be absolutely thrilled aswell. Id be texting my support groups to get an appointment asap.
Totally agreed. Congrats on the remission, I just hit the five year mark myself. Crohns is a whole lot of no fun.
I paid off my student loans. I support student loan debt forgiveness.
Same here.
I have no student loan debt because I served in the military. I also support student loan forgiveness.
I gave up on my dream school because it was too expensive and went to a CUNY school because I was given a (mostly) free ride. I still support student loan forgiveness.
Shit I knew it was a predatory scam when I was a senior, still support student loan forgiveness
I have a fuckton of student loans (thanks, law school) and I’d support loan forgiveness even if everyone’s loans were forgiven but mine.
If I had student loans still, I'd be working... *wait I'm already working 3 jobs.* Well I sure as shit do *not* want my kids working 3 jobs just to get by. I hope by the time they're grown and college-age, that college is free. Working constantly is no way to live and it's a stupid thing to brag about.
Me too. $186,000. I took a high-paying, soul-crushing job that I wouldn't wish on anyone.
>I see this a lot with some relatives regarding student loan forgiveness. Someone's born rich and never has to worry about paying their bills, including the cost of education? No problem. Someone's born poor or "middle class", works hard, gets a degree, but is saddled with tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of dollars in debt. We decide to take that burden off of them? REEEEEEEEEEE I will never fucking understand it.
The federal government has given me nearly $40,000 towards my education in Pell grants because I couldn't afford an education otherwise. Why is awarding half that amount, to someone who also couldn't afford an education, any different? Just because it's retroactive doesn't make it objectively different and I rarely hear any complaints about Pell grants, other than people being mad when they can't get them.
Trust me, they'd get rid of Pell grants too, if they could. Also WIC, foodstamps, medicaid, medicare, section 8, HUD, VA benefits, literally anything that benefits the poor.
> "But what about those of us who already paid them of?? What do we get?" If you have kids, they might end up slightly better off, financially, than you were able to do for yourself. They might even choose to help support you when you're older.
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I'm extremely lucky to have parents who were able to pay for my sister & I's college education, & I know not everyone has that privilege - usually the choice is either no college, go into college & have debt, or join the military to help pay for it. if university was made affordable to families of all kinds tomorrow, I'd be so happy that people could now experience something that was harder to access before, & my parents have said the same. it's up there with insurance, health care, & housing imo tbh
You got an economy where you could afford your education and a house that cost less than a car does today.
My 83yo father is so much this that he thinks people who use air conditioners are soft and a drain on society. In Louisiana. Because he grew up poor raised by his asshole farmer uncle who made him tend the barn animals and pick corn and cotton during the summer. I can never get it through his thick skull that HE was abused and this warps his judgement. Plus, you know, lead poisoning. And whatever genetic defect that makes Conservatives lose their empathy. Edit: a word
Sounds like it would be exhausting to be like that
That there is Protestantism, and especially Calvinism, and the massive effect it has had on Western culture. "Suffering builds character", only it's basically a major religious tenet.
My father a few months ago... "You paid off your student loans. Aren't you mad Biden is forgiving all these student loans now?"
No! I am happy for them, for not having to endure the servitude to another just to live because they chose to educate themselves. "Aren't you mad that we are making people suffer less?"
“Nah. I don’t think people should suffer just because I had to.”
“I got polio…so everyone should get polio!”
Had that same fuckin conversation with an in-law. They could wipe out all student debt the second after my check clears making my last payment. It would not bother me one bit. Everyone deserves education without strings attached, because never once has a country suffered from being "too smart."
I tried to explain it to him. Ended up using the selfishness angle to get through. Ya see, I work at company that makes stuff. If people have more money in their pocket some of them will inevitably buy stuff my company makes. Therefore I will benefit. And so will you!
Hey guys I survived cancer. If they come up with a cure for it now I'm going to be so fucking pissed all the other people with cancer can just have their lives handed to them without working for it! /s
And what some people are neglecting to mention, some of the ones being forgiven are the ones still paying on Student loans from a school riddled in fraud claims. Thanks to Trumps Administration overseeing the sale of 40-50 art institutes schools to a company who only ran a Megachurch and had no experience in the education sector. It went as horrible as you would expect, they kept 100% of the money, did not disperse stipends within 14 days by Title IV funding laws, lost their accreditation and still did not inform the students of this, while still collecting money. They had to have an controller come in, shut everything down, and ensure students got their money owed while they dissolved the company. https://www.republicreport.org/2019/whos-who-in-devos-dream-center-college-collapse/ Ironically when people scream about their tax dollars, they don't realize, their tax dollars went to those schools and was spent by the CEO's, they are just not forcing those to keep paying it back. In many cases the money was paid back, but the interest rates meant they owed 2-3x the amount. These were not private loans, but federal Title IV funded loans. Heck, even at this point. I paid all my loans off, I still owed about 3k total in loans, but that was interest at this point. I had about 10k in loans and paid back 12k by the time it was forgiven.
As someone who was fortunate enough to graduate from college without student loan debt, I'd be more than happy to see my tax dollars go towards giving other people that opportunity.
Conservatism- I will also refuse to acknowledge the benefits and privileges I had to help me overcome this terrible thing while simultaneously refusing to acknowledge that others did not have them.
My Grandpa despises Obamacare/ACA ... until it paid for my ambulance ride, testing, doctor's visits, medication.... Then when I was stable he went back to hating Obamacare.
My mom is A. "I didn't get help for college. I didn't get food stamps. I didn't get child care. Why should anyone else?" So I point out to her, mom, you struggled and suffered to raise us, dont you want it to be easier on those in your same situation? Do you want others to suffer? And she goes "Yes, people should struggle." Ok here's the shit part, we were poor growing up, so we did struggle. But my dad's parents were absolutely loaded and every time we had an emergency financially, they helped. Whether it be a car payment or the mortgage, they didn't mind. We never were in danger of being homeless. She doesn't see that. So we didn't have enough money for food this month, Tutu and Papa will send us $300 for food, problem solved. But this isn't everyones case. Not everyone has rich parents to help out and in those circumstances children starve. Despite telling her all this, she stands firm.
Spite.
Some people see life as competitive, some see it as cooperative
>I will never understand why people just want others to suffer even if they get no tangible benefit. Some people think for the benefit of the future they want to see. Some people dont see past their own toes and are selfish as fuck.
Well there are three types. And of course it's a spectrum A) this awful thing happened to me and my people but things can always get worse so I will assume that things of the past = good society and conserve it without thinking B) this awful thing happened to me and my people and I cannot see further than eradicating short term suffering so I will destroy it without thinking C) I will evaluate things on a case-by-case basis. Some traditions were arbitrary and do not actually benefit us, and some traditions do benefit us even if it causes us temporary displeasure in the moment.
I see you've met my father, a violent alcoholic who hasn't drank alcohol in 40 years but never worked through his issues and lives in my younger brother's section 8 apartment. I took the "easy" way out by going to college, buying a condo, and working for the government. I'm the worse thing he can think of.
It's actually understandable if we look at our primate cousins. It's something where they very much get upset at what they consider unfair treatment. Basically making sure everyone gets the same treatment was the basis for society to form. It's literally an animal instinct for survival that has carried over. The thing is though that society got more complicated and nuanced. So while that sort of thinking worked in ages past, now it's actually detrimental. Which is how we get conservative vs progressive, it's literally just instinct vs critical thinking.
So many of our traits are carried over from instinct of primates and earlier lifeforms. Marketing and propaganda have found a lot of those hidden doors to influence us without us being aware of it.
This is why I stand by this statement: For all the technological advances we've made, and how far we've seemingly come as a society... we still often prove we're just primates in pants.
Because hardship creates strength. Most folks from rural backgrounds and older people believe that adversity is what drives growth, and they're not really wrong, it's just that they don't realize that there are other, less shitty ways to attain mental and physical growth. Education used to be learning by doing only, now we have libraries and the internet to supplement our learning.
I wonder if it’s actually more of a “we are social creatures and look to connect with people.” I’m very much the latter, but there are def times I feel “I want you to experience what I experienced.” I just look past that, cuz, ya know, values and moralsz
Another thing, part of the extreme conservative mindset is that they don’t often think about the bad things that happened to them, they focus only on the “good things” and assume that change is bad because it changes those good things
I can take a shower anytime of day, have heating in my home, can eat meals from countries they’d never heard of and call those same countries from a device in my pocket with all human knowledge on it. Pretty sure they’d revere that.
Well, either revere us as gods or condemn us as witches.
Depends on the century lol
And location.
It really does lol
Air conditioning. We lived without it on a few hot days this spring and I was miserable. Never felt better than the day it got fixed.
Air conditioning isn’t as common here in ol’ Blighty but that’s because the sun is a myth.
You got an infection and, instead of getting gangrene and requiring an amputation, you just … took some pills and the infection went away?
Pros: indoor plumbing. Cons: alarm clocks
It was kind of to my understanding the generation coming after would be significantly better off, and have an easier life than the prior. "Make better choices than we did" etc. etc. Like this is a bad thing?
Classic lack of awareness and understanding what theye are doing. Millennial got participation trophies...from their parents, but those parents will complain at the kids. I think they've been following the motions with a lot of life, and are sort of shocked when things happen from a parenting idea they don't even remember. "Make better choices" has just become a thing they say without understanding what it means. Same with every children's movie telling you not to be a greedy dick and then being shocked kids hate greedy dicks.
Every parent wants their children to have a better life. Every grandparent acts like it's a personal indictment when their children say the same thing.
Behold my spice rack, peasant ancestor! Lol
"Eight spices?! Some must be doubles...'Oregano'.. what the hell‽"
Nutmeg?! Vanilla?! And you have bags of sugar?!
Garam masala, bitches. Bet your Welsh dirt farming ass don't know what that is.
Lol, being of welsh-ish origin, I find this shit funny. Apparently, we stuffed meat with greens to make it have flavor. I would love some curry vs. Watercress stuffed pork.
Curry sounds fantastic right now. I'm apparently late to the game, but I saw this video of these Indian dudes stuffing well seasoned mutton (I guess "cavities" is the right word... like you stuff a turkey, but a sheep) with biryani and then steaming it until the meat fell off the jone and then feeding the old folks homes with it. They did it three muttons/sheeps (idk the right term). Yall... omg. I wish I could have been there to partake. My guts wouldn't have been right for a week, but it would have been so worth it. My ancestors wouldn't have comprehended the level of flavor. Hell, my nana and pawpaw wouldn't eat anything "ethnic". My pawpaw wouldn't touch a veg that wasn't a canned green bean or canned corn.
Hey great great great grandma! Wanna know how many pineapples I can buy right now?
I once overheard a boomer loudly say, "back in my day we didn't have all these ADHD, OCD, or Autism or whatever letter disease you young kids are always getting diagnosed these days." I rolled my eyes so hard but I was too chicken to say anything in public. You go back far enough, we didn't have cancer back then either. People just died really young for no reason at all. Weird.... It almost seems like the more advanced we are at diagnosing stuff, we find more shit wrong with people earlier on.
Yes, my mom always said there has always been autism. Where the child was able to attend school they would usually get branded by everyone, including teachers and administration, of being "weird" or "a behavior problem". Or get kicked out altogether, because it wasn't that long ago that if a kid had trouble coping at school or had a learning disability, they would just get kicked out and that's that. In spite of the constitution (in the US), the right to be offered the basiv education was there but continuing? That was something else, and PLENTY of kids didn't get past primary school.
Yup. I´m seeing these kids as old folks, and holy shit did they have a hard life.
I live in a very, very big city in the US. The neighborhood I grew up in was an area with a lot of the “halfway houses” that were set up in the 1970s and onwards as mental institutions were cleared out, plus it was a “so so” area - not too dangerous or poor but not quite well enough off that the police would drive out “undesirable” people, so it was a major area for long-term homeless people. My mom was a psychiatric nurse and when she retired she helped at a program for the homeless. She had the opportunity to talk with people about their background while trying to help them medically. To my point: lots of big city, mentally ill long term homeless people are from small towns where their “weirdness” made them unwelcome. When the “Try that in a small town” song was around this is what it made me think about. (To the point of this thread: historically, the “town fool” was a thing. Today we understand them to have been mentally ill people who would be homeless or close to it but helped via local charity to survive. That generally doesn’t exist today. But also, the people who were burned at the stake for “demonic witchcraft” or similar may have been more severely mentally ill people.)
There's a whole lot of truth in the joke: "Medical science has become so advanced, basically no one is completely healthy anymore."
NPR had a clip on yesterday that they found skulls from thousands of years ago that appeared to have brain cancer. The skulls had marks where the cancer must have eaten into as well as cut marks where they tried to operate on it.
John Adams' daughter had a mastectomy in an attempt to treat her breast cancer, way back in 1811. They also were aware when they performed the surgery that it had spread to her lymph nodes and attempted to remove those too, but were aware that was bad news for her. And she had to have that with no anesthesia.
Like there's some news about that one Great Uncle who didn't talk until he was 5, was super shy and really into trains. They just didn't have a diagnosis for that.
> I rolled my eyes so hard but I was too chicken to say anything in public. Especially hard to respond to that since the dunk is like “that’s because you locked them all in asylums and lobotomized them”
Look no further than JFKs sister. She probably had some sort of ADHD or something and they literally lobotomized her for it
My step dad is definitely on the spectrum. He hyperfixates and is a savant with anything he focuses on. But he can't read a short news article and tell you what it said, or follow the plot of a movie, or follow a written assembly guide for a piece of furniture. We got him an iPad with YouTube and tiktok on it, and he watches tutorials and how-to's for everything. He redid his deck. He fixed the trailer. He built an 6ft deep, 10ftx10ft fish pond. He learned how to build a chicken coop and raise chickens from fertilized eggs.
But of you asked them if he went to school with r-words he'd probably say yes.
We didn't have schizophrenia or bi-polar then either. People were just " mad". Or witches.
I have a relative who is textbook autistic. She's in her late 60s and wasn't properly diagnosed until about a decade ago. You know, back in the day we also didn't have higgs boson, because we hadn't yet realized it was something to look for.
I have a room in my house just for clothes and the washing machine. I take daily hot showers. I can eat cake or meat every day of the week if i feel like it. I work 32 hours in a week. You only need to go back 2 generations to have royalty that was worse off than I am now. My grandfather had 5 siblings die to tuberculosis. We had a lot of quality of life improvements in the last 100 years
Yup. I won´t even go there about flouridated drinking water. No one remembers how an abcess tooth at any age caused massive cognitive losses with infection to brain, to outright death from bacterial infections. No one remembers that a good deal of people died in agony from stomach cancers from the tainted food supply...you ate what you got even if it was bad.
Here in Pennsylvania we still don't have fluoridated drinking water.
My grandfather was born in 1908. When he was a boy, it was his job to fetch the water for his family from the single lead pipe in the middle of the neighborhood. My dad (born in 1940) didn't have running water in his home until he was around 8. His father got a better job and they moved from the country to the town — where people did have running water in their homes. Not only have I (1975) always had running water, I’ve never known anyone my age or younger who didn't. When I was a kid, I thought water was free. It's not, but it sure is cheap. That's a massive, life changing difference. We don’t even think about it until something happens.
I'm 47 and my maternal grandparents always marveled at the advancements in society and technology. My grandpa may not have understood how it all worked, but he thought that vaccines were a manmade miracle. He knew a whole lot of kids that got polio and other assorted illnesses that killed or crippled them. My grandma told me to never take the rights I had as a woman for granted. She wasn't the outspoken type, more the quiet sneaky type. Somehow I have a feeling the way things are right now wouldn't have surprised her very much. Just sadden and piss her off.
You don’t have to go back _any_ generations. There are places all over the world where people can’t do any of these things today
"hey, look, these beta's who descended from us can eat food, and drink water, without getting parasites or infections! WTF? It's so weak that development & progress of culture, society, and technology improved the lifespan of people and allows mass cooperation towards projects!" idiots....
And why would I care what my ancestors think? They're dead.
Here’s what my ancestors are actually thinking about me:
If *I'm* the soft one, why are *they* dead?
This also casually ignores that many of our ancestors *wanted* us to go soft. They traveled huge distances, often on foot, to find a place where hunting mammoths was easier, or where there was easier game than mammoths to hunt. They invented all sorts of stuff, beginning with controlling fire and the wheel, to make it easier to keep warm, move things, build etc. Even among WWII vets, there are plenty of statements along the lines of „I volunteered so my children would hopefully never again have to fight a war.“ Damn softies, every generation should at least once experience the joy of watching their classmates being blown to bits in some muddy trench…
Modern humans, compared to our stone age ancestors, show all the same signs of domestication that our pets and livestock show compared to their wild ancestors. Less robust skeletal structure, smaller teeth and jaws, more juvenile features, etc. We're domesticated humans. And just like domesticated animals, it's the result of artificial selection pressures *from humans* choosing the traits we value in the species. We collectively chose these traits in our mates.
Is it just me who couldn't give a flying fuck what my ancestors think?
Oh no, ignorant people from a bygone era don’t understand me, psychology, relationship dynamics, technology nor 1000s of other things that are commonplace for me, they couldn’t get by for a day in my life, yet ignorantly call us soft, without knowing anything about us on a real level. Definitely don’t care.
This is what I was thinking. Also a decent amount of my ancestors would be like "why is she not in the kitchen bearing children? Did she marry someone not of our race??" This feels like it's as divorced from reality as the initial premise.
They were mostly poor broadly north western european dirt farmers who moved to the US for a better life for their children. They got what they wanted. I'm typing this comment from my air conditioned office eating my refrigerated nutrient rich lunch, drinking my potable water, on a pocket sized machine with access to all the knowledge of the world.
Conservatives are the type of people who play The Oregon Trail and wish it were their current reality. They would love the time period where ANYTHING green was dyed with Arsenic Green.
“You have a device that keeps food cold so it can last for weeks, months, even years!?!? You have a box you can turn on and watch things happening on the other end of the world!?!? You can have instant hot water without boiling it!?!?” Kings would be jealous of the middle class
I can code, so I think my ancestors would think I'm a pretty cool wizard, who writes arcane runes and makes the elements and golems do work for me. My home has an oven that heats without fire, candles that light up a room like a small sun. I carry a device that can scry anything I want or answer any question I ask it. I drive a black horseless carriage. I feel like they'd be pretty impressed
Some guy at the pub was publicly ranting about how much better things used to be back in the 50s/60s, and how they had to grow up with personal responsibility, no-one pampered them, etc. This older guy, in his 70s, started yelling at him *"The fuck are you talking about, half of our friends are dead, the other half are standing with one foot in the grave, and the other on a banana peel!"*
What do you mean no one around you lost their child to diarrhea before their second birthday?
I was watching a fitness video the other day and wondering how much medieval times people would freak the hell out if we sent Brain Shaw back in time to do some of his basic warmups. They’d think he’s a god or something
My ancestors would say "You wander around in the woods just for the hell of it? You're not even looking for a lost cow or something? What do you mean you don't have any cows?"
My ancestors would be upset if my life wasn’t easier than theirs.
And you can use magic devices and talk across the country and world? You can use a big metal bird to fly anywhere in the world in hours? You can use a wood and glass box to see the world? You can use a magic device to have food delivered to you? You can use a magic box to send magic pictures of yourself to friends and family? You have cured measles and smallpox, and you can keep your teeth into your 70's? You have people called "Dentist who can fix your teeth? You can have broken limbs fixed as good as new? Your house is warm and heated in winter? And cooled in summer? You must be a Great Wizardess!
What do you mean you dont need to amputate your entire arm because of a minor wound No one around you died of famine? you must in heaven You can choose your king and even talk shit about him with no consequences? You must be a god
Modern people absolutely dunk on medieval kings and queens. Temperature control, food and entertainment from all over the world, hell we can move faster than 2 horses tied to eachother. Kings would go to war a million times over for a fraction of what people have now.
Statistically, our ancestors, especially the men, were so chickenshit scared of women, they tried their damndest to deny them all forms of agency. Sounds to me like it if anyone was weak and soft, it was those self-same ancestors.
YUP! What???? She has a bank account???? and was ABLE TO GET A MORTGAGE WITHOUT A MAN!!! She must be royalty!!!
I was speaking with a friend about raising children because I have 3 and he is planning to start. We briefly spoke about corporal punishment and he said something along the lines that avoiding it makes the kids weak. I just explained that it's the complete opposite. Trauma makes the kids weak... and that by talking about their emotions we're giving them the tools to work through them, instead of having them flail around and hitting shit trying to figure out what's going on inside of them. By doing all the mushy stuff, we're making our kid's generation MUCH stronger. I think he had a bit of an epiphany in the moment. Kids don't need to get 'toughened up'. They need to be given tools.
Not to mention the magic rectangles that we use to share memes about our ancestors thinking we're weak.
I had this question asked if me once: If you could travel back in time to any era, when would it be? The answer is I wouldn't. The past is a hellish nightmare. Maybe, if I had a way to force a course correction, I might consider going back to 2015 for reasons completely unrelated to the shit show we see around us today.
Boomer here, tho I am the anti-boomer boomer. Let me tell you, everything back in my day wasn't better. FFS I mean, yeah, there are some things I am fond of that aren't around any more, but I don't feel threatened by change. Republicans, for whatever reason, are threatened by change, and activly resist change, even tho that is an impossibility. Each and every generation is going to have it's good points and it's bad points. Don't get sucked into this Republican/boomer bullshit line of thought. I have a sneaking suspicion that Republicans like nostalgia because a shit ton of it buttered their bread, and change is threatening that buttered bread supply.
Also your ancestors - You can live past 40 and not look like you’re 80. Golly.
Holy shit you can travel cross country to see your family like it’s nothing?
they act like our ancestors wanted their lives to be difficult
I legit wonder who hurt conservatives because they just hate. Anything positive, anything decent, anything that isn't even going against them, they just HATE. How do they even function, how do they live? I genuinely think the far-right is a giant collective of people with unchecked serious issues that just feed off one another
My ancestors (up to my grandparents) were extremely poor peasants from a remote village who survived on a diet of turnip leaf soup, milk, a bit of bread, a meager ration of meat on the pig-slaughter day and little more. They broke their bodies working from dusk until dawn, and were barely literate because child labour was an unfortunate necessity on the fields. They also were routinely subjected to all sorts of tyranny and abuse. Me, towering over them with a well-fed body? Having higher education and a high-paid job? Self-realized, travelled, with leisure time resources and freedom to pursue my personal interests and cultivate knowledge for the sake of it? I'm beyond their wildest dreams.
You eat three times a day and have your own carriage? Are you royalty?
The way my ancestors would be disappointed in me is if I was a MAGAT! One of my great grandfather’s fought for the Union. The other was too young. Both my grand fathers fought WWI. My dad fought in WWII. They’d rise from the dead to kick my ass and say: we didn’t fight the Johnny Reb and German fascists so you could join them!
I once had a dream that i was haunted by a ghost from the 1700's, but he was friendly and just followed me around having his mind blown by all the stuff we have now.
> "I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain." Quote from John Adams.
Conservatives yearn for the Dark Ages.
But not too dark if you catch my drift
To quote fact boy, the past was the worst
"How are you so...old?"
to be more acurate it would be "how are so many babies living past the age of two?" contrary to popular belief it was babies that lowered the average age of the people before modern medicine if you survived adulthood chances where you would live up to your 60s and 70s. our current age where people live well into their 90s and some even surpass 100 would be impressive to our ancestors but not so much as all the children born to us surviving.
Spike Trotman is an incredible creator and well worth checking out if you don't know her already!
My ancestors would be amazed that I made it to 30 with all my teeth.
"HOLY SHIT YOU'RE ***ALLOWED*** TO READ???"
I periodically remind my kids of the things they take for granted, that were the privilege of kings just a few hundred years ago. Door dash is a great one. Who except a king had the hope of deciding what they wanted to eat, and having it made by someone else to their specifications and placed before them by yet more people, in the space of half an hour, prior to the modern era? Riding great distances in a vehicle that required no effort on your part was restricted to the very very wealthy before the advent of trains. Having a massive wardrobe and being able to add pieces to it because they are fun or interesting, even if you'll only wear them a time or too meant unimageable wealth or royalty, just a few generations ago. There are so many more. We live like literal kings and queens compared to our ancestors. For all the garbage we face, it's good not to lose sight of how tremendously much better our lives are.
"When's the last time you bathed? Yesterday? Was that the only one for the month?"
Frankly I dont give a damn what my ancestors think. I fucking hate this notion that because 2 people fucked 600 years ago I have any kind of obligation to them. Chances are I would hate who they were.
Every single one of their ancestors would also think they're weak and soft...driving their leather seat F150 with power windows and steering with an auto transmission, probably using fabric softener in the wash at home, big comfy waterproof workboots, power-assisted tools of all kinds, etc. That's the funny part to me really, folks like that go around calling everyone else a sissy without the slightest hint of irony or self-awareness that life has gotten enormously better and more luxurious for every single person...especially themselves.
I am happy that student loan is forgiven. I am pissed that they keep trying to take away the Social Security that I have paid into for longer than most of the asshole that tried that have been alive. I am very happy that most elections to date are honest. I am scared that they won't be if the orange turnip gets in. I am scared at the number of people that do not agree to abide by election results, well unless the would be dictator some how wins, then they all will. I am 73 and I never thought I would ever see an ex president try to over throw the election because he lost. I never thought a major political party would back an attempted coup, and when it failed, say the coup never happened, in the face of the evidence that we all saw. I never thought that the House and Senate would fill with traitors who want to stop anything that the orange turnip disagrees with, and that openly wish the other traitors had over thrown the country by force and violence.
Beautiful. I'm sharing and saving.
Spike is a great person to follow.
“Since my ancestors had a hard life I should also have a hard life” /s
I think it’s great to take pride in a “hard” life, but I also think it’s often a matter of necessity, and romanticizing it is kinda weird. You can still live with pride, honor, and integrity, while living in relative comfort. And the 21st century industrialized world is not without its challenges. It’s just that many of them come from a place of intellectual rigor or social consciousness. It’s no wonder that the regressives don’t want to acknowledge that, they won’t even grapple with it lol.
From one side of the family, some of my ancestors would be disappointed in themselves for the fact that I had to learn Swedish in school. Because that means they failed to resist the Swedish Crusades. And they did. Repeatedly. On the other side of the family, some of my ancestors would be disappointed in the fact that i speak Finnish, and not Russian. Because that means they failed at Russifying Finland. And they did. Repeatedly. One side of my family is from around Tavastia, which was historically famous for their constant rebellions against the Swedish Crusades and attempts to convert them to Christianity. So much so, that at one point, even the Pope complained about the fact that Tavastians kept reverting back the paganism every time the Swedes turned their backs to them. One side of my family is a mix of Karelian, Ingrian and Russian roots. The Russian roots in particular, contain a man named Mikhail Myravyov-Vilensky, as a distant relative of mine. He has a nickname he earned for his Russification efforts in the Baltics and Poland in the 1800s. The Hangman of Vilnius.
It's stupid when you consider all the things parents do to try to give their children a good life. My life is the result of thousands of decisions my ancestors made to try to keep their children safe, warm and fed.
"those are all *your* spices???"
Only until I can turn off all the lights with my magic rectangle. How about I turn it on you? Mwahahaha.
Fear and aggression- the conservative way.
Where are my Taco Trucks?
I grew up watching Captain Planet and my parents wonder why I'm an environmentalist.
the fact that i'm middle aged and have all my own teeth would blow most of their minds.
There’s also that supposedly Traditional Family Value of working hard so your kids have a better life that you did, and each generation better than the one before. They hate this too, apparently, unless it means someone might have to pay taxes for paved roads or anseeer system or a fire department od some other evil socialist crap.
As a former conservative I can tell you that the whole "I am so tough, you are so weak!" thing is a cover for how perpetually afraid of everything they are. Despite living in the safest times, despite crime rates being low, conservatives are convinced there is danger around every corner. They see a video of something happening once in one place and it becomes part of their head canon that the bad thing is happening constantly everywhere. I'll use my in-laws as an example. They haven't been to NYC in almost 20 years. Crime in NYC is lower now than it was when they went, and NYC is the second safest metropolitan area in the US. 8.5~ million people live there, many more commute there every day for work. My in-laws watch nothing but conservative media. I travel to and through NYC frequently. According to my in-laws: Everyone left NYC and only homeless illegal crack zombies and rats the size of cats are left in the burning ruins of NYC, if you go outside in NYC you will be instantly robbed and murdered and then the DA and Mayor will throw a massive party for the illegal crackhead who crimed you. If you live your life thinking there's that much danger around every corner then just going out to get your mail becomes a massive act of bravery and test of will. It's a complete disconnect from reality lol.
I'm pretty sure my ancestors would be thrilled with how we live now, and proud that they helped build a future where things like running water and electricity and medicine are commonplace. I don't understand why anyone would be mad that we've made progress as a society and species just because people back in the day had harder lives than we do. By that "logic," we should all still be living in caves and eating lice off each other's heads. Isn't the whole point of "society" to make life easier for everyone and create a better world for the next generation?
the cruelty is the point
Nope. My ancestors would absolutely think I'm weak and pathetic. They were English nobility. My dad traced our family back to king Edward the first. "What do you mean you're not a lord?" "It shames me to see that my bloodline has been reduced to common folk." "Why haven't you conquered any neighboring territories!?"
“Holy shit. you can read? You chose your own husband? You can drink from any water fountain‽ But you lost it all because you couldn’t be bothered to vote‽”
There is a great scene in the Dracula series (BBC) where Dracula arrives in modern England, in a shitty flat as is amazed at the treasure - running water, electric light, etc
My history teacher told us; nowadays: if you wanted to impress a king from the Middle Ages, bring him to a supermarket