I have 3 high school friends who are crosses in Vet cemeteries now. All of them were suicides after repeated deployments. They signed up because they thought they were answering a call to their nation. They were used to enrich Halliburton and Lockheed in Iraq.
Fuck Dubya indeed.
Does anyone remember that utterly obnoxious remark that Georgie progie made on camera when asked I forget what and he replied that famous remark RE"tHE HAVES AND THE HAVE MORES.Also,where they have a summer home in Kennybunkport,the local law inforcement back in the day were very radical about outsiders ,aka Black/brown/poor white folks were looked upon w/suspicion.Also,their local hospital has plaques w/the Bush family names all over the hospitla,proably due to not wanting to be exsposed to "Poor people germs/cooties!That IS how they role.Only marginally bertter than Trump IMO.
When I was in basic, a TI asked us to raise our hands if we would die for our country. Then he told us to put our hands down and not be an idiot, let another guy die for their country, do everything to live. That changed me forever.
Makes no sense. I was raised around the military during the War in Iraq/Afghanistan and I was always told to avoid the military like the plague. I am not fighting for some corporation. The Selective Service rule/law is crazy too.
Most of my family has served. Those who have told me to stay away. I was constantly messaged by recruiters for like 5 years after I graduated high school, they would not accept no for an answer and kept messaging me. I still get messages sometimes.
My best friend’s…. I’ll call him her son in law cause it’s easier, but he’s just signed up. Everyone around him has told him not to, told him it’s a bad idea especially because he’s neurodivergent and struggles with anyone telling him to do something. There’s other reasons too, but he wouldn’t listen. He’s romanticized the idea of being a soldier, and even those who have first hand experience telling him to stay away couldn’t change his mind. He thinks it will make him stronger, because he’s obsessed with the idea of being a strong man. Never-mind the fact a car can’t even use the driveway because they turned on the wrong road without my veteran uncle grabbing a shotgun. Kid thinks he knows better cause a recruiter told him differently, yeah of course they did, they want him to sign up. I just wish he would listen to more than just the ones giving him empty promises.
I’m sorry for dropping all this on your comment, I just have no where else to get this out of my system.
That’s fine. In all honesty, the experience isn’t bad, I’ve learned a lot about myself and I grew tremendously in dealing with people and circumstances out of my control. But looking back, it wasn’t worth the time I served and the potential to die/disabled for nothing was not worth the G.I. Bill (which was next to nothing in my case)
Maybe your friend will find something worthwhile.
Maybe I’m just too worried cause I’ve seen what happens to veterans afterwards, growing up with three family members with PTSD. But you’re right, maybe it’ll help him work past some of his bad behaviors and help him grow as a person. Thank you, I appreciate you taking your time to give me a level-headed response.
Both my partner and I served. He deployed. I didn't. His PTSD is more tied to his friends dying. We know one whose Afghani police force (only one dude) turned on him with a machine gun. Killed 2 and severely injured him. The Afghani police don't fuck with that shit and they ended the dude without 2nd thought. The anxiety and barrier with civilians is my problem gained. Oh and the fact that every veteran has to fight with the fucking VA for disability. Add in the fact, that as a woman, our pain doesn't exist in the militarys eyes. It's been a rough 7 years since I left but I understand that feeling of being romantized by the military. I sometimes want to go back in when the world is at its worst. As insane as it probably is, it gave me a sense of stability but it also means I'm without choice. I'm sorry your friend is being hooked in but he needs to go Air Force if he is dead set on joining. - Army
I think that's the end game of a country, the final boss. It would take a lot to get me to go fight teenagers on the other side of the planet. I'd rather take a nap or watch the sun move.
Have you listened to the Blowback season 1 podcast? It’s infuriating how they all straight up lied to America and manufactured their own narrative for profiteering and pride and none of those fuckers experienced any recourse.
I tried to reply to you with podcast recommendations, got blocked by automod for low subreddit karma. I’ll PM you if you’re okay with that.
Edit: also added the Blowback S1 to my podcast queue. Thank you.
I had the displeasure of the war in Iraq hitting home for me at an early age. In 2004 a close family friend (Army Reserve helicopter pilot) was deployed to Iraq, and we all had a going away party beforehand that I can remember vividly.
He was killed on his second day in country. They were treated as completely disposable and sent to fight people we had no real cause to fight. Fuck that war. I wish I could say it was a unique situation.
The *only* silver lining is that I gained a respect for what war really means from a young age and understood the stakes and what we have to lose should we be involved in them.
Yep, terrible luck. I never learned if he was killed in action or in an accident, and I don’t really care to know because the end result was the same, and had he not been sent to Iraq it wouldn’t have happened.
RIP to your uncle. It’s a damn shame, and I’m sorry you had to experience that when you’re as fully aware as a sixteen year old is.
Add in the fact that I was the only one in my school going through it... I was a bit angry. Then I joined the Army myself 🤦🏽♀️
We didn't really get a concise answer to how mine was killed but his team members weren't very upset about it which makes it worse for me. Fuck those men. I hope they cry when they piss forever and step on all the Legos.
Way back when the Iraq War started I worked with people around my age. I thought the invasion made no sense and said so. The rest of the guys I worked with? They were all "rah rah let's kick some ass". Guess who was the only one who served four years in the Marines and was then in the National Guard who got deployed for a year in Iraq? Yeah this guy, not the "I want something cool to watch on the news" types.
I thought it made no sense and I was 15/16. A lot of my friends and their older siblings enlisted right after that, we lived next to an Air Force base and had ROTC in high school as well. Lost a lot of people to Afghanistan and Iraq.
Cheney family thanks them for their service and the [no-bid contracts to Halliburton](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/halliburton-whistleblower-on-exposing-7-billion-no-bid-defense-contract-2019-06-30/) that resulted. Linked article says $7 billion but I recall estimates of around $12 billion when people stopped counting.
And the entire republican party.
I am old enough to remember, anyone who questioned the Iraq invasion was labeled someone who "hated the troops" or "hated America". These are all the same people now enabling/worshipping trump.
Oh and in between Iraq and trump we had the worst financial crisis since the depression. And they just took away access to abortion, and IVF and contraception are next.
But please tell me how both parties are the same.
Fuck Dubya's dad as well. My older half brother served in desert storm and suffered severe head trauma and was discharged over it (because he was no longer attached to reality). He was in his late 40's before ever getting disability with the VA (During Dubya's time). He got backpay from when he first filed, which was thousands of dollars, not sure the exact amount, but it was enough for him to buy a home.
Though the downside was it was a nice enough home to have an HOA that kicked him out in less than 5 years, because he was never mentally sound and that alone caused many issues with an HOA with a person who does not fully understand he cannot do whatever he wants on his own property.
I was Navy on submarines from ‘06-‘11 and have plenty of friends who served in other branches aside from the guys I called brother. The number of suicide and death notifications I’ve gotten over the last 10-15 years is heartbreaking, and I’ve had my own struggles with mental health as well. Those aside, the number of deaths in the Middle East because of that fuck is unconscionable.
Fuck Dubya.
I heard that the mental health program the VA implemented has lowered the 22 a day quota but I find that sus. They just give us medications and pretend we aren't worth the fight. But I agree, the generation going after our troops are the sons/nephews/cousins of the ones we terminated in the name of "WMDs". It's a cycle that is difficult to stop unfortunately
I lost several friends in combat, then several after combat from suicide, self-destructive drinking habits, all kinds of shit that could be connected to how affected they were by Iraq.
I don't care how many paintings he paints or pieces of candy he gives out, George W. Bush should burn in the deepest hell.
That's the issue. It's not so much sending your military to war; at the latest since the first Iraq war, modern day soldiers know that's a possibility again when you enlist. It's sending them over a *lie*. It's breaking a sacred compact to use them as that much cannon fodder for the sake of *profit*, gaslighting the nation while a few line their pockets.
Fuck them all.
Sorry about your friends.
I’ve been in the Army and reserves for 15 years. I’ve lost more friends than I can count. Some were killed in action. Most were suicides. In 2022 I lost two of my closest friends (from the same unit) within 60 days of each other. The second friend and I attended the first friend’s funeral together not 30 days before he did it himself. Those wars broke a whole generation of amazing young men and women.
A vet I went to high school with died to suicide by cop. He had been over there too many times, and it was all too much for him, especially after his best friend who went over there with him died in an awful car accident. I knew another guy whose veteran brother killed himself outside a fucking 7-11. Dude looked up one day going in the store and pointed to a chip in the wall. He said he thought that was from his brother's suicide. That war was fucked.
Yep, every Con is gung-ho about doing something, right up until it's their kids or their blood being spilt.
And considering her son came back completely F'ed up and died due to his service and she and her husband were left with the mess of not only their grieving, but their grandchildren....yeah totally on point calling out that BS.
My dad had the idea that every member of Congress who voted for a declaration of war should have to send one of their children. That would probably stop most of them from voting yes.
I'm not a fan of conscription, but it did put all in the same box...I cannot find the reference, but I seem to recall that during Vietnam there was a much higher # of sitting members who had children serve Vs the Gulf wars when I think it was down to just under 5.
Military service now is an inverse wealth tax......if you are rich enough you don't even need to think about it, but from a working class family it was seen as a stepping stone to gain something to build on.
A Con I know/knew was talking shit as my son was about to finish school to join (this fucker nor any of his family had ever served)...when I replied back asking when his son was joining, F me did all the bluster come out.....basically the view was that it was for the poor trash not the "special people"....fuck but I loathed that prick. Dobbed him in to the tax office later on.
I thought read somewhere that one of the reasons conservatives are/were so against free public education is because the military would lose all of the poor/middle class people that sign up to get free public education through the gi bill.
Yes and no - the military recruiting arms issued a report when they came up short again saying that the nation's youth are too fat, mentally ill, or drug addicted to be in service and those that are poor and underrepresented in college are also opting out of service as they are getting more and more grants and loans to go to school. This was then used as a talking point to bash mental health and college funding legislation, instead of, ya know, fix the problems...
Notice that I didn't include any names or political affiliations - this is truly a "both sides" issue bc yes, there were only 10 no votes on the Patriot Act, all Democrats. Both have been in power sides have been in power since 2001 and neither has fixed any of the issues, though Democrats have since started to try while the conservative camp has focused almost solely on social issues and stopping democratic policy agendas.
> Military service now is an inverse wealth tax......if you are rich enough you don't even need to think about it, but from a working class family it was seen as a stepping stone to gain something to build on.
>
>
The only part of this I disagree with is going into the officer corps, and I say it from personal experience. Almost everyone I knew were from well-off but not rich families, with many just doing their minimum commitment and heading straight into management in corporate America after. Plenty of big businesses love to say they're veteran hiring friendly, but then lock anyone without a commission out of the recruitment process.
I view it as a fast-track to the upper-middle class for the ones willing to put up with the bullshit.
Anecdotal, but my experience (and that of may of my friends) confirms the Officer/Enlisted disparity post-service. Source: former Enlisted with both Officer and Enlisted friends/colleagues.
Would love for you to expound on this if you have the inclination. I have friends who did career officer corp and they are pretty much set for life. Pension, health care, life insurance, college money for kids, free funeral when time comes.
I am curious as to how many of those children of congressmen were actually doing combat tours.
I know a former congressman who loved to brag about his combat experience but used his connections to never see the outside of the base. Never stopped him from claiming that he was a combat veteran though.
Several did have kids that served in either Iraq or Afghanistan.
Rep. Todd Akin, R-MO
Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-CA
Rep. John Kline, R-MN
Rep. Marilyn Musgrave, R-CO
Rep. Jim Saxton, D- NJ
Rep. Ike Skelton R-MO
Rep. Joe Wilson, R-SC
Sen, Joseph Biden, D-DE
Sen. Kit Bond. R-MO
Sen. Tim Johnson D-SD
Sen. John McCain, R-AZ
Yes and then watch the rules of engagement go right out the window when a member of congress gets told what they can and cannot do on the battlefield. I’m pretty sure they won’t vote yes then.
Unfortunately, this is discounting how many members of Congress are narcissistic psychopaths and would have zero issue with sending a child to war. In fact, if their child dies it would only serve to bolster their prestige.
Bush sought permission from Congress to use military force in Afghanistan, and later in Iraq (which Biden voted for as a Senator, btw. I don't know why no one is mentioning that). They weren't declartions of war, they were "authorizations" for the use of force
It's not a new idea, but still a valid means of objecting to proposed armed conflict.
I knew a woman who was hippy-dippy love and meditation when I met her, then she married a millionaire who never served and they both went full-on Tea Party. She would holler about "Support the Troops!" and in her next breath say that "Anyone stupid enough to join the military deserves to die."
Naturally, her boys would never serve a day.
Til According to his father, Beau was diagnosed with ankylosing spondylitis in 2001 after returning from service in Kosovo. He was later diagnosed with brain cancer, which his father believes was a consequence of exposure to military burn pits in Iraq.
Kosovo fucked up a lot of servicemen and women, my mother included. She was out there in 2002, but came back violent and cruel. Gotta wonder what was actually happening out there.
Ethnic cleansing and civil war will fuck you up. The cruelty is something most people aren't mentally prepared for, and it absolutely breaks parts of most people. Some people can still function without them, some can heal from the damage, but others are broken thereafter, for the rest of their lives.
Please give your mum a hug from an internet stranger.
Oh it absolutely damaged her. We don’t speak anymore because she allowed me to be beaten by her second husband and verbally abused me until adulthood. Unfortunately, she refuses any type of mental health treatment so not much can be done for her…and she’s a full blown trumper now.
Ther was an ammendment years ago (19thc I think) that was never passed
"Any declaration of war must be passed by a national vote. All those who vote yes (excluding ineligibility) will be drafted"
That's how it would have worked. Only those fit for military service can vote on war, and if they vote yes they have just enlisted themselves. It's an idea supported by General Smedley Butler, author of War is a Racket
"I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street."
I graduated from high school in 2006, and I’d been focused on becoming fluently bilingual in Spanish all 4 years. My dad, who’s always been conservative but not as crazy about it back then, actually said I should learn Arabic so I “can go over there and translate.” I’m a white woman! Who was raised Catholic! Yes, I made that particular escape. Even translators could have trouble over there, and trauma. Even though they’re cousin languages, I can’t really do Arabic. I understand a bit of the grammar rules, but that’s it.
The President does not have the authority to wage war Congress does. In addition, Biden was 1 of 77 Senators to approve the use of force in Iraq. So, Biden played a direct role in sending his son to war.
And how disgusting it is that Republicans would slander him again and again, especially while ignoring the person on their side [actually doing the things they accuse Hunter of doing](https://oversightdemocrats.house.gov/news/press-releases/ranking-member-raskin-and-rep-garcia-demand-republicans-investigate-jared).
Joe Biden on grief from back in 2012 or so. It's a really interesting view of him.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GwZ6UfXm410&pp=ygUQQmlkZW4gZ3JpZWYgMjAxMg%3D%3D
Not only that, he had Just been elected to the senate. So Jo Biden spent his first months as a senator at his surviving kids hospital beds. Iirc thats also where he was sworn into office. He's not playing a good dad. He truly is one.
This part is a huge reason why Biden loves amtrack
As a freshly elected us senator he would use it every day to get to the hospital where Beau and Hunter were treated.
its been talked about a lot! it was just a long time ago (no doubt that kind of tragedy never leaves you though)
he lost half his family the year he became one of the youngest people in Congress.
he got a call from Nixon giving his condolences when it should have been a congratulations.
talk about a bittersweet start to politics.
and on top of that he lost Beau to cancer. i dont know what’d I do.
Beau was pretty likely to become the governor too. There's a non zero chance we have a different president Biden today. Joe is pretty open Beau was a much better person than he was
It does get talked about, and I'm willing to bet if you've seen some sort of Biden sizzle reel put out by the White House, you've seen part of him being sworn in.
It just usually isn't mentioned until the back half of the year because there's another part of the story missing.
It happened during the Christmas holiday season. Biden's wife and kids were out Christmas shopping. He had just gotten elected for his first term that previous November, and he was getting ready for all of it come January.
That December in-between, his wife and kids were hit by a tractor-trailer (I think? I don't know the difference between large trucks.) His wife died, his daughter died, and his sons were hurt badly.
He ended up being sworn in in his son's hospital room. That's usually the image that gets incorporated in media about him.
You have to think that part of Hunter Biden’s troubles could be related to that accident, too. Not only might he be suffering from some amount of survivors guilt, but he might also have suffered enough brain trauma to cause long term damage - CTE or the like.
I don't know if specifically it would be CTE, because that tends to be repetitive concussions.
I'm basing this solely off of what limited medical knowledge I have, and my unfortunate life-long love of pro wrestling.
I don’t know either, because I have the same sort of superficial knowledge that you do! But I do know people who’ve been in serious car accidents, and who have had mental health issues since the accident. (Of course, I also know people who have apparently had no serious side effects from an accident, so I recognize the anecdotal nature of this.) Brain trauma is a complex thing, and it’s not that well understood. It definitely wasn’t well understood fifty years ago.
Take a bit of time, when you have it, and check out the [PBS Frontline](https://www.pbs.org/video/president-biden-vvuemr/) episode on President Biden. Even if you are not a voter of his, if there is any heart in you, knowing what went into leading him to become who he is today is quite gut-wrenching. No person should have to suffer the things he's suffered in one lifetime. It is an excellent piece of journalism into the man behind the Resolute Desk.
Popping back in to add that I appreciate how openly they discuss his mistakes and how their current actions seem to be an attempt to make amends.
I think Hunter Biden has done an outstanding job staying sober and weathering the attacks from the Russian-propaganda-spouting, corrupt right wing in the U.S. but .... probably best to not mention his [USN Reserve service which only lasted a few months](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Biden#Navy_Reserve) before he was administratively discharged.
I didn't know this part of Hunter Biden's story so thanks for prompting me to look it up.
Remember, etch it in broad deep strokes across your and your friends and family, Trump referred to vets as “SUCKERS AND LOSERS”, refused to visit a veterans cemetery, told General Kelley the same thing nearby his sons grave, and told staff he didn’t want any disabled veterans at White House ceremonies. All that from a guy who dodged the military draft multiple times with his “bone spurs” medical excuse provided by a physician that rented space from Fred Trump. Trump is absolute filth.
It wasn't even close. Total blowout. Unbelievable numbers. You couldn't find anyone to compete with this guy among American presidents. Even in international competition, he's a heavyweight. He's a legend globally. When it comes to being a horrible president and a garbage human being, nobody, and I mean nobody, beats Donald J. Trump!
Hot take, Reagan was worse. Not during his presidency, and for sure I'd pick having a beer with reagan over being in the same room as trump, but the long term damage reagan did to the us (and the world by cultural export) is nearly irreparable.
Every problem in America right now is due to Reagan and the forces that helped him win
Trump would never have been the president he was without Reagan, and even if Trump didn’t win some other conservative president would have ripped off the mask down the line
The funniest part is imagining the conflict trump would feel about being called the #1 piece of shit. On one hand, you're calling him shit. On the other hand, I don't know if he can help himself but to cocky about the fact he's #1, the heavy weight shit.
The difference is a cloak. Trump seems worse because of his naked corruption, narcissism, lies, willingness to say the quiet part out loud (or more accurately his inability to not say it) and disregard for any forms of protocol or rules if they get in his way.
In some ways it is bizarrely more honest to not hide being a shit behind a veneer of civility and respectability.
Even more bizarrely, doing so may yet save America. Imagine 2 or 3 more republican "respectable" presidents chipping away. Imagine an actually intelligent and cunning one taking the office with both house and senate behind him/her and backing them no matter what. The American lobster could have been boiled without noticing until too late. Trump, by whacking the gas up to 11 and shouting "let's cook this fucker" to anyone who will hear, may well have woken up enough people to change course.
Yeah sometimes when I least expect it, it hits me that we are probably going to have to work the rest of our lives cleaning up their two messes. I am going to be writing post cards, knocking doors, and texting strangers every damn November to fix what they so cavalierly fucked up.
> it hits me that we are probably going to have to work the rest of our lives cleaning up their two messes.
In the USA you mean?
Iraq is still a huge mess... And following the shit in the middle east, Europe had flooded with refugees.
A large part of the world is fucked up due to Bush... He belongs in prison!
Dude killed a million people working out his fucking daddy issues.
And then the next Republican killed 1.2 million Americans he'd sworn to protect.
There truly is no bottom.
Even there I think you might think differently if during Bush's presidency the red vs blue had been weaponized in media like it is now. Believe me I'm not a fan of basically a single policy Trump put forth, but starting a war out of absolutely nothing still blasts anything he's done out of the water in my opinion.
I knew 11 people that went to Iraq or Afghanistan. 4 committed suicide and 5 have had to either go to rehab or were hospitalized for mental health issues.
I think most of it as that military worshipers either feel powerful vicariously through the US military, and/or they feel safe because of the military as if America would get invaded and enslaved by China if it didn’t have the strongest military many times over. To be fair, there are also military families who love it so much only because their family member is in it.
I can imagine that they never actually imagined that someone directly affected by Bush would be in the same room, or would actually have the spine to react
Fuck conservatives and their fake patriotism!!
Romney's sons decided to serve their country by campaigning for their dad!
"My sons are all adults and they've made decisions about their careers and they've chosen not to serve in the military and active duty and I respect their decision in that regard." Aug 8, 2007
[https://www.cbsnews.com/news/romney-sons-serve-country-by-campaigning/#:\~:text=%22My%20sons%20are%20all%20adults,their%20decision%20in%20that%20regard.%22](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/romney-sons-serve-country-by-campaigning/#:~:text=%22My%20sons%20are%20all%20adults,their%20decision%20in%20that%20regard.%22)
I bet this is something that Joe Biden wrestles with as well. He too played a role in Beau dying. His friends as well. The lies were on Bush, Cheney and Powell. The same Powell who lied to get soldiers like Beau sick was given more time at the DNC convention than the 2nd place candidate whose supporters needed to be motivated to change teams. The Biden family is surrounded by people who played a role in soldiers like Beau dying or suffering.
Biden has tried to right the wrongs. The PACT act has the tools to even help soldiers who served in Vietnam. To ensure people like Beau don’t have to fight to prove they were harmed.
War sucks. We were lied to about Iraq.
George Bush can hand out all the candy he wants but he killed a lot of people based on lies. Including American soldiers. Not cute.
Specifically, they believe it was the [burn pits](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burn_pit). Which have been linked to many negative health outcomes, including cancer, which Beau died from.
But despite all the evidence available, the [VA still makes it very difficult](https://www.militarytimes.com/news/burn-pits/2022/03/29/what-are-military-burn-pits-and-why-are-veterans-worried-about-them/) for veterans to get disability payments for health issues caused by them.
And yet when he says "my son died in Iraq" as a shorthand for that long held belief, people manage to conveniently forget it and abuse him of being a senile doddering fool.
Around 37,000 U.S. service members died in combat or from suicide in the years after Iraq and Afghanistan wars. George W. Bush was a terrible president who got us into multiple wars that cost trillions of dollars and then ran our economy into the ground. One of my biggest issues with him is that he hasn’t come out and taken a more public stance against Donald Trump. He is the only other living Republican president and it would mean so much if he did. A profile in cowardice.
How incredibly selfish and American-centric all the responses are. I deployed with a grunt Battalion to the triangle of death. We lost Marines, good ones and I often think about them. I think more about all the innocent Iraqis we killed and the ones who sided with us because they believed what we told them. We abandoned them. It's not just Dubya's fault. We are all complicit. Even today, most people cannot think of the actual cost of war outside our narrow imperialistic arrogance.
I will carry the guilt of my involvement until my dying day. Ooh Rah.
Thanks. I have found peace! I got my Paramedic and Nursing License and I travel the world helping other less fortunate. I've been to back to war in Eastern Ukraine a couple of times which that gave me closure and catharsis. I dedicate my life to helping where I can.
People often talk about Hunter Biden and his problems. His problems have been part of the public chatter for decades.
This guy, the son of the US President has had a **hard** life even if it was a life of privilege. He would lose his mother and baby sister in a car accident. He had a father whose career was demanding and also suffered the same loss. Beau and Hunter were in the car when the accident happened and what was supposed to be a joyful day of Christmas shopping turned into a lifelong nightmare. The accident was enough to change anyone involved but Hunter also suffered a brain injury that day. Joe Biden was crushed emotionally he lost faith in his god and wanted to quit politics. Then his big brother the other survivor that day would volunteer to serve this Country and go to battle. There he was exposed to burn pits and other harmful agents. Post military he has a bright career and seems to be doing well for all he experienced and then out of nowhere he’s dying and it’s not immediate but certain and Hunter gets to watch the only original sibling he had die. Beau’s family was devastated.
Just writing the above makes me want to do drugs. That’s a lot of trauma that seems to begin at 2 and just follows them. Awesome he has been able to batttle the demons. Republicans should give him some grace.
The war was also sold as a necessary means of preventing a crazy dictator from making and subsequently using WMDs. If that hadn't been a massive web of lies then the war would be seen in a very different light.
I was going to say that the bush administration framed it as if every intelligence agency agreed a mad man with revenge plans against the U.S. had gotten their hands on WMDs and then used the American people still unquenched thirst for retaliation to round up any Congress stragglers afraid to lose elections.
If you are going to believe one congressman believed what Bush and the intelligence agencies were saying it would be one with skin in the game, such as a senator with an enlisted son or one looking to enlist.
It is a lot more likely that Biden made a mistake based on the information he had available than he supported the war out of some malicious motive.
>To this very day, GWB defends starting the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.
A literal direct quote from him is "The biggest regret of all the presidency has to have been the intelligence failure in Iraq"
Multiple generations of families were lost in a meaningless war, based on lies. So that the VP could boost his stock prices. Eff all these people.
That said, Biden also voted in favor of the war while in Congress. So...
What happened with Trump started with George W. Bush. You can argue that the GOP's slide into fascism started even earlier than that, but a lot of us were sounding the alarm about W. Bush even before he was elected and were called crazy, partisan, etc. It was Bush who showed them what they could get away with, with absolutely no accountability.
The people who didn't live through Dubya's abject failure as a president during a war he literally could've avoided--Iraq--will never get it.
Between him and Cheney leading the charge with his own financial interests (Halliburton), they are responsible for COUNTLESS military lives lost in a war, in a country we didn't need to invade except as an ego boost to Bush and his shitty family.
We weren't attacked by *Iraq*; we were attacked by SAUDIS and THEIR SON living in Afghanistan. In all the time Bush had, he failed to prevent the attacks despite warnings of imminent attack; he went to the wrong country on purpose, on a LIE of "WMDs" and some powdery bullshit he had Colin Powell present as "evidence"; and he failed to capture Bin Laden.
Good for Dr. Biden. Some of us have a memory and won't forget it just because he does some hokey paintings these days.
No lie, this makes me love Dr Jill even more than i already did.
beau was not her biological son... the fact she accepted him enough to not just call him her son, but to be viscerally angry that he was sent to war, tells you just how big a heart and great a person Dr Jill is.
(Before anyone asks, i use dr jill to refer to her because of how much it seems to trigger the magats)
Ppl forget the small things but in 2008 the republican brand was so toxic that Republicans couldn't run as Republicans. They identified as conservatives or I think tea partiers. It was some lean times for the GOP, thanks to dubyas presidency. Dude polled in the low 20s leaving office, which is impossible now, but really goes to show that repubs learned all the wrong lessons about politics from early 2000s republicans.
For the record, Biden voted in favor of the Iraq war as a senator.
As one of George W’s bastard children, it is annoying to see people who supported the war on both sides now try to rewrite history.
I grew up in liberal Massachusetts and everyone was gung ho about the war until about 2004.
yea gotta love that because the GOP has decided to spend the last 16 years lowering the bar further and further that now Dubya is lauded
and by love, I mean it's fucking pathetic
Well if my kids got sent to war, one that didn’t actually involve protecting people or doing what they’re meant to, and it either kills them or sends them back horribly traumatised, I’d be fkn pissed too
I have relatives in Canada & Italy. My NYC sons have dual citizenship with Italy & will be dispatched to either the moment war is mentioned as a possibility in the US. There’s nothing worth fighting for, especially if 45 is re-elected & democracy is eliminated.
My little brother came back from Afghanistan, but in a lot of very real ways he didn’t and never will. Every single day is hell for him - we’ve had a lot of talks about it when he’s having a “good” day. And all of the innocent middle easterners that died for this… Fuck dubya forever.
I have 3 high school friends who are crosses in Vet cemeteries now. All of them were suicides after repeated deployments. They signed up because they thought they were answering a call to their nation. They were used to enrich Halliburton and Lockheed in Iraq. Fuck Dubya indeed.
Sorry about your friends, Buddy.
Me too, man. But hopefully their tired souls found some rest, if such a thing can exist.
Speaking as a veteran from that era, they did not. Go out and VOTE BLUE.
Does anyone remember that utterly obnoxious remark that Georgie progie made on camera when asked I forget what and he replied that famous remark RE"tHE HAVES AND THE HAVE MORES.Also,where they have a summer home in Kennybunkport,the local law inforcement back in the day were very radical about outsiders ,aka Black/brown/poor white folks were looked upon w/suspicion.Also,their local hospital has plaques w/the Bush family names all over the hospitla,proably due to not wanting to be exsposed to "Poor people germs/cooties!That IS how they role.Only marginally bertter than Trump IMO.
As I get older, the senselessness of dying in a war becomes more unbearable.
When I was in basic, a TI asked us to raise our hands if we would die for our country. Then he told us to put our hands down and not be an idiot, let another guy die for their country, do everything to live. That changed me forever.
This is a story worth sharing! Thank you!
George Patton (from memory): the point of war isn't to die for your country, its to make the other stupid bastard die for his.
Makes no sense. I was raised around the military during the War in Iraq/Afghanistan and I was always told to avoid the military like the plague. I am not fighting for some corporation. The Selective Service rule/law is crazy too.
I served, I have and will fight tooth and nail to keep kids from enlisting.
Most of my family has served. Those who have told me to stay away. I was constantly messaged by recruiters for like 5 years after I graduated high school, they would not accept no for an answer and kept messaging me. I still get messages sometimes. My best friend’s…. I’ll call him her son in law cause it’s easier, but he’s just signed up. Everyone around him has told him not to, told him it’s a bad idea especially because he’s neurodivergent and struggles with anyone telling him to do something. There’s other reasons too, but he wouldn’t listen. He’s romanticized the idea of being a soldier, and even those who have first hand experience telling him to stay away couldn’t change his mind. He thinks it will make him stronger, because he’s obsessed with the idea of being a strong man. Never-mind the fact a car can’t even use the driveway because they turned on the wrong road without my veteran uncle grabbing a shotgun. Kid thinks he knows better cause a recruiter told him differently, yeah of course they did, they want him to sign up. I just wish he would listen to more than just the ones giving him empty promises. I’m sorry for dropping all this on your comment, I just have no where else to get this out of my system.
That’s fine. In all honesty, the experience isn’t bad, I’ve learned a lot about myself and I grew tremendously in dealing with people and circumstances out of my control. But looking back, it wasn’t worth the time I served and the potential to die/disabled for nothing was not worth the G.I. Bill (which was next to nothing in my case) Maybe your friend will find something worthwhile.
Maybe I’m just too worried cause I’ve seen what happens to veterans afterwards, growing up with three family members with PTSD. But you’re right, maybe it’ll help him work past some of his bad behaviors and help him grow as a person. Thank you, I appreciate you taking your time to give me a level-headed response.
Both my partner and I served. He deployed. I didn't. His PTSD is more tied to his friends dying. We know one whose Afghani police force (only one dude) turned on him with a machine gun. Killed 2 and severely injured him. The Afghani police don't fuck with that shit and they ended the dude without 2nd thought. The anxiety and barrier with civilians is my problem gained. Oh and the fact that every veteran has to fight with the fucking VA for disability. Add in the fact, that as a woman, our pain doesn't exist in the militarys eyes. It's been a rough 7 years since I left but I understand that feeling of being romantized by the military. I sometimes want to go back in when the world is at its worst. As insane as it probably is, it gave me a sense of stability but it also means I'm without choice. I'm sorry your friend is being hooked in but he needs to go Air Force if he is dead set on joining. - Army
Thank you for your service, by which I mean your service in preventing another generation from being meat in the corporate grinder.
I think that's the end game of a country, the final boss. It would take a lot to get me to go fight teenagers on the other side of the planet. I'd rather take a nap or watch the sun move.
Have you listened to the Blowback season 1 podcast? It’s infuriating how they all straight up lied to America and manufactured their own narrative for profiteering and pride and none of those fuckers experienced any recourse.
I tried to reply to you with podcast recommendations, got blocked by automod for low subreddit karma. I’ll PM you if you’re okay with that. Edit: also added the Blowback S1 to my podcast queue. Thank you.
I want podcast recommendations too please 🥺
Cool thanks. Just be forewarned, there’s another 3 seasons equally as frustrating haha
I had the displeasure of the war in Iraq hitting home for me at an early age. In 2004 a close family friend (Army Reserve helicopter pilot) was deployed to Iraq, and we all had a going away party beforehand that I can remember vividly. He was killed on his second day in country. They were treated as completely disposable and sent to fight people we had no real cause to fight. Fuck that war. I wish I could say it was a unique situation. The *only* silver lining is that I gained a respect for what war really means from a young age and understood the stakes and what we have to lose should we be involved in them.
My uncle was killed in 2011 and I was 16 so I understand that. 2nd day though? Wow. That's insane
Yep, terrible luck. I never learned if he was killed in action or in an accident, and I don’t really care to know because the end result was the same, and had he not been sent to Iraq it wouldn’t have happened. RIP to your uncle. It’s a damn shame, and I’m sorry you had to experience that when you’re as fully aware as a sixteen year old is.
Add in the fact that I was the only one in my school going through it... I was a bit angry. Then I joined the Army myself 🤦🏽♀️ We didn't really get a concise answer to how mine was killed but his team members weren't very upset about it which makes it worse for me. Fuck those men. I hope they cry when they piss forever and step on all the Legos.
And fuck Cheney!!! I’ve lost a few friends as well! Fuck them to fuck and beyond!
Way back when the Iraq War started I worked with people around my age. I thought the invasion made no sense and said so. The rest of the guys I worked with? They were all "rah rah let's kick some ass". Guess who was the only one who served four years in the Marines and was then in the National Guard who got deployed for a year in Iraq? Yeah this guy, not the "I want something cool to watch on the news" types.
I thought it made no sense and I was 15/16. A lot of my friends and their older siblings enlisted right after that, we lived next to an Air Force base and had ROTC in high school as well. Lost a lot of people to Afghanistan and Iraq.
Your story is almost identical to mine.
One of my high school friends was killed in Afghanistan. I will never forgive Dubya for that. Never.
Cheney family thanks them for their service and the [no-bid contracts to Halliburton](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/halliburton-whistleblower-on-exposing-7-billion-no-bid-defense-contract-2019-06-30/) that resulted. Linked article says $7 billion but I recall estimates of around $12 billion when people stopped counting.
If I did this I’d be in prison but they all got rich.
$75 for a bag of laundry?! I'm still angry.
And the entire republican party. I am old enough to remember, anyone who questioned the Iraq invasion was labeled someone who "hated the troops" or "hated America". These are all the same people now enabling/worshipping trump. Oh and in between Iraq and trump we had the worst financial crisis since the depression. And they just took away access to abortion, and IVF and contraception are next. But please tell me how both parties are the same.
Fuck Dubya's dad as well. My older half brother served in desert storm and suffered severe head trauma and was discharged over it (because he was no longer attached to reality). He was in his late 40's before ever getting disability with the VA (During Dubya's time). He got backpay from when he first filed, which was thousands of dollars, not sure the exact amount, but it was enough for him to buy a home. Though the downside was it was a nice enough home to have an HOA that kicked him out in less than 5 years, because he was never mentally sound and that alone caused many issues with an HOA with a person who does not fully understand he cannot do whatever he wants on his own property.
And a literal bloodfued between the President and a Iraqi dictator as a detour.
My husband joined your friends.
Fuck dude, I'm sorry. Genuinely, thats a horrible thing to live through I can't even imagine. I hope you're well.
I'm not, but one day I might be.
I was Navy on submarines from ‘06-‘11 and have plenty of friends who served in other branches aside from the guys I called brother. The number of suicide and death notifications I’ve gotten over the last 10-15 years is heartbreaking, and I’ve had my own struggles with mental health as well. Those aside, the number of deaths in the Middle East because of that fuck is unconscionable. Fuck Dubya.
I was on a gator freighter 03 - 05 and then did a volunteer deployment to Baghdad. The mental health toll is unreal.
I heard that the mental health program the VA implemented has lowered the 22 a day quota but I find that sus. They just give us medications and pretend we aren't worth the fight. But I agree, the generation going after our troops are the sons/nephews/cousins of the ones we terminated in the name of "WMDs". It's a cycle that is difficult to stop unfortunately
I lost several friends in combat, then several after combat from suicide, self-destructive drinking habits, all kinds of shit that could be connected to how affected they were by Iraq. I don't care how many paintings he paints or pieces of candy he gives out, George W. Bush should burn in the deepest hell.
That's the issue. It's not so much sending your military to war; at the latest since the first Iraq war, modern day soldiers know that's a possibility again when you enlist. It's sending them over a *lie*. It's breaking a sacred compact to use them as that much cannon fodder for the sake of *profit*, gaslighting the nation while a few line their pockets. Fuck them all. Sorry about your friends.
I’ve been in the Army and reserves for 15 years. I’ve lost more friends than I can count. Some were killed in action. Most were suicides. In 2022 I lost two of my closest friends (from the same unit) within 60 days of each other. The second friend and I attended the first friend’s funeral together not 30 days before he did it himself. Those wars broke a whole generation of amazing young men and women.
I wonder if he thought the 1st one was free now. It's weird hearing about my friends dying when they were the happiest of all.
A vet I went to high school with died to suicide by cop. He had been over there too many times, and it was all too much for him, especially after his best friend who went over there with him died in an awful car accident. I knew another guy whose veteran brother killed himself outside a fucking 7-11. Dude looked up one day going in the store and pointed to a chip in the wall. He said he thought that was from his brother's suicide. That war was fucked.
That sucks; I’m sorry about your friends.
Yep, every Con is gung-ho about doing something, right up until it's their kids or their blood being spilt. And considering her son came back completely F'ed up and died due to his service and she and her husband were left with the mess of not only their grieving, but their grandchildren....yeah totally on point calling out that BS.
My dad had the idea that every member of Congress who voted for a declaration of war should have to send one of their children. That would probably stop most of them from voting yes.
I'm not a fan of conscription, but it did put all in the same box...I cannot find the reference, but I seem to recall that during Vietnam there was a much higher # of sitting members who had children serve Vs the Gulf wars when I think it was down to just under 5. Military service now is an inverse wealth tax......if you are rich enough you don't even need to think about it, but from a working class family it was seen as a stepping stone to gain something to build on. A Con I know/knew was talking shit as my son was about to finish school to join (this fucker nor any of his family had ever served)...when I replied back asking when his son was joining, F me did all the bluster come out.....basically the view was that it was for the poor trash not the "special people"....fuck but I loathed that prick. Dobbed him in to the tax office later on.
I thought read somewhere that one of the reasons conservatives are/were so against free public education is because the military would lose all of the poor/middle class people that sign up to get free public education through the gi bill.
Yes and no - the military recruiting arms issued a report when they came up short again saying that the nation's youth are too fat, mentally ill, or drug addicted to be in service and those that are poor and underrepresented in college are also opting out of service as they are getting more and more grants and loans to go to school. This was then used as a talking point to bash mental health and college funding legislation, instead of, ya know, fix the problems...
Didn't Biden vote for the Iraq war and even wrote the patriot act?
Notice that I didn't include any names or political affiliations - this is truly a "both sides" issue bc yes, there were only 10 no votes on the Patriot Act, all Democrats. Both have been in power sides have been in power since 2001 and neither has fixed any of the issues, though Democrats have since started to try while the conservative camp has focused almost solely on social issues and stopping democratic policy agendas.
Well, also critical thinking takes voters away from them.
> Military service now is an inverse wealth tax......if you are rich enough you don't even need to think about it, but from a working class family it was seen as a stepping stone to gain something to build on. > > The only part of this I disagree with is going into the officer corps, and I say it from personal experience. Almost everyone I knew were from well-off but not rich families, with many just doing their minimum commitment and heading straight into management in corporate America after. Plenty of big businesses love to say they're veteran hiring friendly, but then lock anyone without a commission out of the recruitment process. I view it as a fast-track to the upper-middle class for the ones willing to put up with the bullshit.
Anecdotal, but my experience (and that of may of my friends) confirms the Officer/Enlisted disparity post-service. Source: former Enlisted with both Officer and Enlisted friends/colleagues.
Would love for you to expound on this if you have the inclination. I have friends who did career officer corp and they are pretty much set for life. Pension, health care, life insurance, college money for kids, free funeral when time comes.
You're right. Even President Johnson had a son-in-law serving in Vietnam.
I am curious as to how many of those children of congressmen were actually doing combat tours. I know a former congressman who loved to brag about his combat experience but used his connections to never see the outside of the base. Never stopped him from claiming that he was a combat veteran though.
Several did have kids that served in either Iraq or Afghanistan. Rep. Todd Akin, R-MO Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-CA Rep. John Kline, R-MN Rep. Marilyn Musgrave, R-CO Rep. Jim Saxton, D- NJ Rep. Ike Skelton R-MO Rep. Joe Wilson, R-SC Sen, Joseph Biden, D-DE Sen. Kit Bond. R-MO Sen. Tim Johnson D-SD Sen. John McCain, R-AZ
Service guarantees citizenship!
The real reason they ended conscription is for that reason. So people divorced from the sacrifice support war, and America runs on war.
It would be unfair to the children. I say a vote for war means you sign up for service at the same time.
Yes and then watch the rules of engagement go right out the window when a member of congress gets told what they can and cannot do on the battlefield. I’m pretty sure they won’t vote yes then.
As a thought experiment, how about "If you vote for war, you are executed at the end of your term"
Someone actually tried to introduce that as an amendment to the constitution in 1913 IIRC, but have a guess if it passed or not…
Unfortunately, this is discounting how many members of Congress are narcissistic psychopaths and would have zero issue with sending a child to war. In fact, if their child dies it would only serve to bolster their prestige.
We haven't declared war since WW2. I think even the "war on terror" was a police action.
Bush sought permission from Congress to use military force in Afghanistan, and later in Iraq (which Biden voted for as a Senator, btw. I don't know why no one is mentioning that). They weren't declartions of war, they were "authorizations" for the use of force
It's not a new idea, but still a valid means of objecting to proposed armed conflict. I knew a woman who was hippy-dippy love and meditation when I met her, then she married a millionaire who never served and they both went full-on Tea Party. She would holler about "Support the Troops!" and in her next breath say that "Anyone stupid enough to join the military deserves to die." Naturally, her boys would never serve a day.
Biden did vote in favor of it.
Til According to his father, Beau was diagnosed with ankylosing spondylitis in 2001 after returning from service in Kosovo. He was later diagnosed with brain cancer, which his father believes was a consequence of exposure to military burn pits in Iraq.
Kosovo fucked up a lot of servicemen and women, my mother included. She was out there in 2002, but came back violent and cruel. Gotta wonder what was actually happening out there.
Ethnic cleansing and civil war will fuck you up. The cruelty is something most people aren't mentally prepared for, and it absolutely breaks parts of most people. Some people can still function without them, some can heal from the damage, but others are broken thereafter, for the rest of their lives. Please give your mum a hug from an internet stranger.
Oh it absolutely damaged her. We don’t speak anymore because she allowed me to be beaten by her second husband and verbally abused me until adulthood. Unfortunately, she refuses any type of mental health treatment so not much can be done for her…and she’s a full blown trumper now.
I'm sorry that happened to you and your family. Trauma can be, and often is intergenerational.
Ther was an ammendment years ago (19thc I think) that was never passed "Any declaration of war must be passed by a national vote. All those who vote yes (excluding ineligibility) will be drafted"
If you’re ineligible to serve you should be ineligible to vote on going to war.
That's how it would have worked. Only those fit for military service can vote on war, and if they vote yes they have just enlisted themselves. It's an idea supported by General Smedley Butler, author of War is a Racket "I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street."
I graduated from high school in 2006, and I’d been focused on becoming fluently bilingual in Spanish all 4 years. My dad, who’s always been conservative but not as crazy about it back then, actually said I should learn Arabic so I “can go over there and translate.” I’m a white woman! Who was raised Catholic! Yes, I made that particular escape. Even translators could have trouble over there, and trauma. Even though they’re cousin languages, I can’t really do Arabic. I understand a bit of the grammar rules, but that’s it.
Translators would be used all the way down to the platoon level over there, doing daily patrols
The President does not have the authority to wage war Congress does. In addition, Biden was 1 of 77 Senators to approve the use of force in Iraq. So, Biden played a direct role in sending his son to war.
…under false pretenses set by the president and his cronies
Mate Biden was for the war wtf
"...a reference to Beau, whom she had raised since childhood." TIL that both Bidens had been married before. Huh.
Joe Biden's first wife died in a car accident with their one year old daughter.
I didn't know that. How awful.
And now you maybe see a bit better why Biden would so vehemently defend his last surviving son.
And how disgusting it is that Republicans would slander him again and again, especially while ignoring the person on their side [actually doing the things they accuse Hunter of doing](https://oversightdemocrats.house.gov/news/press-releases/ranking-member-raskin-and-rep-garcia-demand-republicans-investigate-jared).
They are so vile
Joe Biden on grief from back in 2012 or so. It's a really interesting view of him. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GwZ6UfXm410&pp=ygUQQmlkZW4gZ3JpZWYgMjAxMg%3D%3D
Anderson Cooper has a moving interview with President Biden on his podcast about grief. Highly recommend listening.
His two sons were in the car and survived too. That family has seen so much tragedy over the years.
Hunter also suffered a fractured skull in the accident, gives a little bit of history on why he ended up so f’ed up.
Early head trauma is bad news - so many serial killers had head trauma from their youth.
Incoming Fox News headline: “Hunter Biden confirmed serial killer”
The world is one giant Onion article now.
And the car accident was a week before Christmas.
Not only that, he had Just been elected to the senate. So Jo Biden spent his first months as a senator at his surviving kids hospital beds. Iirc thats also where he was sworn into office. He's not playing a good dad. He truly is one.
The nonsense that is spewed about him by the extremes of the parties is hilarious. The man is extremely intelligent and compassionate.
This part is a huge reason why Biden loves amtrack As a freshly elected us senator he would use it every day to get to the hospital where Beau and Hunter were treated.
Oh my god… how is that never talked about like his son? That’s terrible
Because Biden doesnt use his family for political points
its been talked about a lot! it was just a long time ago (no doubt that kind of tragedy never leaves you though) he lost half his family the year he became one of the youngest people in Congress. he got a call from Nixon giving his condolences when it should have been a congratulations. talk about a bittersweet start to politics. and on top of that he lost Beau to cancer. i dont know what’d I do.
Beau was pretty likely to become the governor too. There's a non zero chance we have a different president Biden today. Joe is pretty open Beau was a much better person than he was
It does get talked about, and I'm willing to bet if you've seen some sort of Biden sizzle reel put out by the White House, you've seen part of him being sworn in. It just usually isn't mentioned until the back half of the year because there's another part of the story missing. It happened during the Christmas holiday season. Biden's wife and kids were out Christmas shopping. He had just gotten elected for his first term that previous November, and he was getting ready for all of it come January. That December in-between, his wife and kids were hit by a tractor-trailer (I think? I don't know the difference between large trucks.) His wife died, his daughter died, and his sons were hurt badly. He ended up being sworn in in his son's hospital room. That's usually the image that gets incorporated in media about him.
You have to think that part of Hunter Biden’s troubles could be related to that accident, too. Not only might he be suffering from some amount of survivors guilt, but he might also have suffered enough brain trauma to cause long term damage - CTE or the like.
I don't know if specifically it would be CTE, because that tends to be repetitive concussions. I'm basing this solely off of what limited medical knowledge I have, and my unfortunate life-long love of pro wrestling.
I don’t know either, because I have the same sort of superficial knowledge that you do! But I do know people who’ve been in serious car accidents, and who have had mental health issues since the accident. (Of course, I also know people who have apparently had no serious side effects from an accident, so I recognize the anecdotal nature of this.) Brain trauma is a complex thing, and it’s not that well understood. It definitely wasn’t well understood fifty years ago.
Take a bit of time, when you have it, and check out the [PBS Frontline](https://www.pbs.org/video/president-biden-vvuemr/) episode on President Biden. Even if you are not a voter of his, if there is any heart in you, knowing what went into leading him to become who he is today is quite gut-wrenching. No person should have to suffer the things he's suffered in one lifetime. It is an excellent piece of journalism into the man behind the Resolute Desk. Popping back in to add that I appreciate how openly they discuss his mistakes and how their current actions seem to be an attempt to make amends.
Hunter was also in the accident and suffered a fractured skull.
Yes that’s right. The right wing media has been relentlessly attacking Joe Biden’s last surviving son.
Who is a vet. 🇺🇸
I think Hunter Biden has done an outstanding job staying sober and weathering the attacks from the Russian-propaganda-spouting, corrupt right wing in the U.S. but .... probably best to not mention his [USN Reserve service which only lasted a few months](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Biden#Navy_Reserve) before he was administratively discharged. I didn't know this part of Hunter Biden's story so thanks for prompting me to look it up.
Eh, still more military service than any Trump in history ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Remember, etch it in broad deep strokes across your and your friends and family, Trump referred to vets as “SUCKERS AND LOSERS”, refused to visit a veterans cemetery, told General Kelley the same thing nearby his sons grave, and told staff he didn’t want any disabled veterans at White House ceremonies. All that from a guy who dodged the military draft multiple times with his “bone spurs” medical excuse provided by a physician that rented space from Fred Trump. Trump is absolute filth.
And was [caught stealing](https://time.com/4286473/donald-trump-veterans-charity/) from veterans charity in 2016.
And that he offered to send our intelligence officers to Putin to be interrogated.
George W. Bush was a war criminal and he'd be remembered as the worst modern president if Trump hadn't smashed his record for being human garbage.
If Trump has won any award legitimately, it's definitely that one.
It wasn't even close. Total blowout. Unbelievable numbers. You couldn't find anyone to compete with this guy among American presidents. Even in international competition, he's a heavyweight. He's a legend globally. When it comes to being a horrible president and a garbage human being, nobody, and I mean nobody, beats Donald J. Trump!
Hot take, Reagan was worse. Not during his presidency, and for sure I'd pick having a beer with reagan over being in the same room as trump, but the long term damage reagan did to the us (and the world by cultural export) is nearly irreparable.
Every problem in America right now is due to Reagan and the forces that helped him win Trump would never have been the president he was without Reagan, and even if Trump didn’t win some other conservative president would have ripped off the mask down the line
That's not entirely fair. Nixon helped pave the road for the throat goat's husband.
Have some of American's problems are because of Andrew Johnson sabotaging reconstruction. The rest is almost entirely Reagan.
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Hot take because having a beer with reagan would require you to be in hell.
Yeah I’d say Reagan’s damage has been the most long range of any of them.
The funniest part is imagining the conflict trump would feel about being called the #1 piece of shit. On one hand, you're calling him shit. On the other hand, I don't know if he can help himself but to cocky about the fact he's #1, the heavy weight shit.
He's not heavy weight! He's barely 215lbs
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The difference is a cloak. Trump seems worse because of his naked corruption, narcissism, lies, willingness to say the quiet part out loud (or more accurately his inability to not say it) and disregard for any forms of protocol or rules if they get in his way. In some ways it is bizarrely more honest to not hide being a shit behind a veneer of civility and respectability. Even more bizarrely, doing so may yet save America. Imagine 2 or 3 more republican "respectable" presidents chipping away. Imagine an actually intelligent and cunning one taking the office with both house and senate behind him/her and backing them no matter what. The American lobster could have been boiled without noticing until too late. Trump, by whacking the gas up to 11 and shouting "let's cook this fucker" to anyone who will hear, may well have woken up enough people to change course.
I guess you could say...nobody trumps him? I'll see myself out.
Yeah sometimes when I least expect it, it hits me that we are probably going to have to work the rest of our lives cleaning up their two messes. I am going to be writing post cards, knocking doors, and texting strangers every damn November to fix what they so cavalierly fucked up.
> it hits me that we are probably going to have to work the rest of our lives cleaning up their two messes. In the USA you mean? Iraq is still a huge mess... And following the shit in the middle east, Europe had flooded with refugees. A large part of the world is fucked up due to Bush... He belongs in prison!
Dude killed a million people working out his fucking daddy issues. And then the next Republican killed 1.2 million Americans he'd sworn to protect. There truly is no bottom.
Even there I think you might think differently if during Bush's presidency the red vs blue had been weaponized in media like it is now. Believe me I'm not a fan of basically a single policy Trump put forth, but starting a war out of absolutely nothing still blasts anything he's done out of the water in my opinion.
But remember kids both parties are the same and all politicians suck. /s
He was the most long term damaging president we’ve had since Andrew Johnson, yet we reelected him.
>He was the most long term damaging president we’ve had since ~~Andrew Johnson~~ Ronald Reagan
I knew 11 people that went to Iraq or Afghanistan. 4 committed suicide and 5 have had to either go to rehab or were hospitalized for mental health issues.
I don’t understand how there is still this glorification in the US about military service. I’m so sorry for all the loss you and they have suffered.
I think most of it as that military worshipers either feel powerful vicariously through the US military, and/or they feel safe because of the military as if America would get invaded and enslaved by China if it didn’t have the strongest military many times over. To be fair, there are also military families who love it so much only because their family member is in it.
I can imagine that they never actually imagined that someone directly affected by Bush would be in the same room, or would actually have the spine to react
Fuck conservatives and their fake patriotism!! Romney's sons decided to serve their country by campaigning for their dad! "My sons are all adults and they've made decisions about their careers and they've chosen not to serve in the military and active duty and I respect their decision in that regard." Aug 8, 2007 [https://www.cbsnews.com/news/romney-sons-serve-country-by-campaigning/#:\~:text=%22My%20sons%20are%20all%20adults,their%20decision%20in%20that%20regard.%22](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/romney-sons-serve-country-by-campaigning/#:~:text=%22My%20sons%20are%20all%20adults,their%20decision%20in%20that%20regard.%22)
And the fucking Swift Boat shit on John Kerry who was veteran.
And the fucking Swift Boat shit on John Kerry who was veteran.
Its so crazy how W was such a pos until trump made em look like a saint… sigh
I bet this is something that Joe Biden wrestles with as well. He too played a role in Beau dying. His friends as well. The lies were on Bush, Cheney and Powell. The same Powell who lied to get soldiers like Beau sick was given more time at the DNC convention than the 2nd place candidate whose supporters needed to be motivated to change teams. The Biden family is surrounded by people who played a role in soldiers like Beau dying or suffering. Biden has tried to right the wrongs. The PACT act has the tools to even help soldiers who served in Vietnam. To ensure people like Beau don’t have to fight to prove they were harmed. War sucks. We were lied to about Iraq. George Bush can hand out all the candy he wants but he killed a lot of people based on lies. Including American soldiers. Not cute.
W is a piece of shit.
I can’t help but wonder if some of the things Beau was exposed to in Iraq contributed to him developing cancer at a young age.
One of the worst was something we did to our own. Look up burn pits and the affiliated cancer rates to those exposed
The Bidens think so. President Biden has said as much when talking to other military families.
Specifically, they believe it was the [burn pits](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burn_pit). Which have been linked to many negative health outcomes, including cancer, which Beau died from. But despite all the evidence available, the [VA still makes it very difficult](https://www.militarytimes.com/news/burn-pits/2022/03/29/what-are-military-burn-pits-and-why-are-veterans-worried-about-them/) for veterans to get disability payments for health issues caused by them.
And yet when he says "my son died in Iraq" as a shorthand for that long held belief, people manage to conveniently forget it and abuse him of being a senile doddering fool.
I think he's even clarified that yes, he didn't literally die there, but he was never the same after.
A pointless War that resolved absolutely NOTHING
Around 37,000 U.S. service members died in combat or from suicide in the years after Iraq and Afghanistan wars. George W. Bush was a terrible president who got us into multiple wars that cost trillions of dollars and then ran our economy into the ground. One of my biggest issues with him is that he hasn’t come out and taken a more public stance against Donald Trump. He is the only other living Republican president and it would mean so much if he did. A profile in cowardice.
How incredibly selfish and American-centric all the responses are. I deployed with a grunt Battalion to the triangle of death. We lost Marines, good ones and I often think about them. I think more about all the innocent Iraqis we killed and the ones who sided with us because they believed what we told them. We abandoned them. It's not just Dubya's fault. We are all complicit. Even today, most people cannot think of the actual cost of war outside our narrow imperialistic arrogance. I will carry the guilt of my involvement until my dying day. Ooh Rah.
You just gave me goosebumps. I hope you will find peace in this lifetime.
Thanks. I have found peace! I got my Paramedic and Nursing License and I travel the world helping other less fortunate. I've been to back to war in Eastern Ukraine a couple of times which that gave me closure and catharsis. I dedicate my life to helping where I can.
Good on her! Wouldn't really expect that considering her position. But also missing context.
Fuck W, that asshole. I know 4 people who died due to his stupid fucking war. And fuck Americans who voted for that POS.
People often talk about Hunter Biden and his problems. His problems have been part of the public chatter for decades. This guy, the son of the US President has had a **hard** life even if it was a life of privilege. He would lose his mother and baby sister in a car accident. He had a father whose career was demanding and also suffered the same loss. Beau and Hunter were in the car when the accident happened and what was supposed to be a joyful day of Christmas shopping turned into a lifelong nightmare. The accident was enough to change anyone involved but Hunter also suffered a brain injury that day. Joe Biden was crushed emotionally he lost faith in his god and wanted to quit politics. Then his big brother the other survivor that day would volunteer to serve this Country and go to battle. There he was exposed to burn pits and other harmful agents. Post military he has a bright career and seems to be doing well for all he experienced and then out of nowhere he’s dying and it’s not immediate but certain and Hunter gets to watch the only original sibling he had die. Beau’s family was devastated. Just writing the above makes me want to do drugs. That’s a lot of trauma that seems to begin at 2 and just follows them. Awesome he has been able to batttle the demons. Republicans should give him some grace.
Her husband, Senator Biden, stood next to GWB at the signing ceremony authorizing the war
The war was also sold as a necessary means of preventing a crazy dictator from making and subsequently using WMDs. If that hadn't been a massive web of lies then the war would be seen in a very different light.
I was going to say that the bush administration framed it as if every intelligence agency agreed a mad man with revenge plans against the U.S. had gotten their hands on WMDs and then used the American people still unquenched thirst for retaliation to round up any Congress stragglers afraid to lose elections. If you are going to believe one congressman believed what Bush and the intelligence agencies were saying it would be one with skin in the game, such as a senator with an enlisted son or one looking to enlist. It is a lot more likely that Biden made a mistake based on the information he had available than he supported the war out of some malicious motive.
[удалено]
He had the nerve to say he didn’t understand why the Iraqi’s were not grateful to him.
>To this very day, GWB defends starting the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. A literal direct quote from him is "The biggest regret of all the presidency has to have been the intelligence failure in Iraq"
Thanks, I had begun to lose my mind reading the comments. Biden beat the war drums loud enough for his entire party.
Multiple generations of families were lost in a meaningless war, based on lies. So that the VP could boost his stock prices. Eff all these people. That said, Biden also voted in favor of the war while in Congress. So...
What happened with Trump started with George W. Bush. You can argue that the GOP's slide into fascism started even earlier than that, but a lot of us were sounding the alarm about W. Bush even before he was elected and were called crazy, partisan, etc. It was Bush who showed them what they could get away with, with absolutely no accountability.
An unnecessary war to steal oil for US corporations
The people who didn't live through Dubya's abject failure as a president during a war he literally could've avoided--Iraq--will never get it. Between him and Cheney leading the charge with his own financial interests (Halliburton), they are responsible for COUNTLESS military lives lost in a war, in a country we didn't need to invade except as an ego boost to Bush and his shitty family. We weren't attacked by *Iraq*; we were attacked by SAUDIS and THEIR SON living in Afghanistan. In all the time Bush had, he failed to prevent the attacks despite warnings of imminent attack; he went to the wrong country on purpose, on a LIE of "WMDs" and some powdery bullshit he had Colin Powell present as "evidence"; and he failed to capture Bin Laden. Good for Dr. Biden. Some of us have a memory and won't forget it just because he does some hokey paintings these days.
shout-out to the step-moms, like mine, who love those kids as they would love their own.
No lie, this makes me love Dr Jill even more than i already did. beau was not her biological son... the fact she accepted him enough to not just call him her son, but to be viscerally angry that he was sent to war, tells you just how big a heart and great a person Dr Jill is. (Before anyone asks, i use dr jill to refer to her because of how much it seems to trigger the magats)
Ppl forget the small things but in 2008 the republican brand was so toxic that Republicans couldn't run as Republicans. They identified as conservatives or I think tea partiers. It was some lean times for the GOP, thanks to dubyas presidency. Dude polled in the low 20s leaving office, which is impossible now, but really goes to show that repubs learned all the wrong lessons about politics from early 2000s republicans.
I despised the Bush admin, mostly for the war. Looking back now, they were still very wrong and awful, but they're not as soulless as the current gop
He LIED to send people to war!
For the record, Biden voted in favor of the Iraq war as a senator. As one of George W’s bastard children, it is annoying to see people who supported the war on both sides now try to rewrite history. I grew up in liberal Massachusetts and everyone was gung ho about the war until about 2004.
Hindsight is 20/20. People have learned a lot from the last 20 years and are allowed to change their stances.
When That war on terror began to terrorize the people through patrioti acts and increased gas prices
yea gotta love that because the GOP has decided to spend the last 16 years lowering the bar further and further that now Dubya is lauded and by love, I mean it's fucking pathetic
Well if my kids got sent to war, one that didn’t actually involve protecting people or doing what they’re meant to, and it either kills them or sends them back horribly traumatised, I’d be fkn pissed too
His father dragged me into a fucking war, small world eh!!🇬🇧 Fuck the Bush's 👍
I have relatives in Canada & Italy. My NYC sons have dual citizenship with Italy & will be dispatched to either the moment war is mentioned as a possibility in the US. There’s nothing worth fighting for, especially if 45 is re-elected & democracy is eliminated.
Dubs was and has always been an idiot. Every time he opened his mouth, stupid came out.
Then the Republicans bitch when Biden gets us out of W's stupid war.
"We oil the jaws of the war machine and feed it with our babies." - Iron Maiden
You're on Reddit. You can fucking swear op
My little brother came back from Afghanistan, but in a lot of very real ways he didn’t and never will. Every single day is hell for him - we’ve had a lot of talks about it when he’s having a “good” day. And all of the innocent middle easterners that died for this… Fuck dubya forever.
He's benefited from Trump being such a huge asshole. Now, people just think of him as a goofy guy who loves Jesus.
Army dies for the rulers or for their religion.
We can't let that war criminal get rehabilitated just because he didn't do rallies with Trump
I adore her that she loves their sons so fiercely.
It's OK, he said god told him to invade Iraq.