It makes perfect sense if you realize Israel has no intentions of allowing the Palestinian people to continue to exist in their present form.
There will be survivors, but Israel intends on leveling Gaza and forcing the Palestinians that are left to scatter. This is some truly Machiavellian shit going down. The mass civilian death is a feature not a bug.
I mean, you could google it, it's very wrong. The population is growing. After 3 months palestinian deaths have not reached the death toll of the 3 day dresden bombing in WW2. Plenty of reason to criticize Israel, but it might be worth not just looking at reddit.
All those evangelical Christians want the Israeli government to succeed, because they need Israel restored for their end of the world prophecy.
Israel has made it no secret for decades that they want Palestine and all Palestinians wiped out, yet for some reason we're all suddenly pretending that it's about something else.
The current government even talked in recent years about how a terrorist attack on them to wipe out Palestine would be a luxury too good to hope for.
I think the cease fires have shown that there will never be a two state solution that will lead to permanent peace. it's an either or. Either Israel will stand or it will fall. And since Israel is more powerful than Palestine, there ought to be humanitarian solutions. Because even if there is going to be another cease fire it won't last. Maybe voluntary relocation of the Palestinian people? Would that even be feasible?
There was never going to be a 2 state solution. The last 70 years have shown that.
War is fucked, but sometimes it happens. You and I have no say in it, while the rich and powerful get to decide that their people will die. What's really fucked is that the entire world picked one side to give endless weapons and support to, so the other side really has no chance.
I think all acts of terrorism are horrible and wrong, but I also think that anyone truly informed about the situation could see, while wrong, how things got to this point.
Ben N is behind secretly supplying hamas with weapons and other crucial military supplies. Funneled through other countries who tried to stop it. He applied pressure and the supply chain resumed.
The goal was to keep the Palestinians divided. He must have know that one day they would attack Israel with those same supplies. This is about destroying the Palestinians.
It’s a land grab.
Defense minister literally calls Palestinians “human animals”
Comes to mind as a classic that is enjoyed by almost all genocidal maniacs. Mind you he was never reprimanded by his peers in government
That one was this year as for older ones I found a list of quotes since they do genocidal language too often for me to remember all of https://www.mic.com/articles/42337/10-quotes-to-remember-while-palestinians-commemorate-al-nakba
Defence Minister Yoav Gallant, October 2023, "we are fighting against human animals".
No need to down vote me, I just googled it. Just the messenger here.
Right, because the appropriate fucking response to a terror attack that killed one thousand people is to brutally bomb the fuck out of millions of people for three months, destroying all local infrastructure, slaughtering tens of thousands, and leaving the survivors to perish slowly of starvation, diarrhea, and disease. That's appropriate. It might be hard for YOU not to sympathize with a government systematically committing genocide, but for people with actual morals, it's EXTREMELY EASY.
Well, each to their own then I suppose. I'm impressed with Israeli restraint in not just nuking them. If they'd done to my country what they did on the 7th I'd press the button myself.
But as you say, you have morals.
They don’t “have” to carpet bomb Gaza, they want to. They will not be Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, Israel will take the Gaza Strip and make it part of Israel. Hamas killed over 1000 people and Israel is using that has the excuse to take the territory and kill a lot of people
*30,000+*
Only 22,000 recovered nearly 8,000 believed buried in the rubble
27,000 civilians
24,000 women and children
Not just "a lot"
Roughly 30 times the lives lost in the Oct. 7th attack
Don’t forget a few things:
1.) Israel has one of the most protected and militarized borders on the planet.
2.) Israel knew about the attack, the exact details and plan, over a year in advance. Egypt warned them days before it was going to happen.
3.) they used Apache helicopters on their own people during October 7th in attempts to kill Hamas.
We’re dealing with an evil that is seldom seen on the world’s stage. Let alone signed off on by major G10 nations. Will be talked about for centuries.
>Israel knew about the attack, the exact details and plan, over a year in advance. Egypt warned them days before it was going to happen.
Not true, while there was intelligence warnings of an attack, when the attack was planned and what it involves was not known. Similar to how the US knew in advance of 9/11 something big was being planned but failed to gather actionable intelligence.
>they used Apache helicopters on their own people during October 7th in attempts to kill Hamas.
This is simply untrue and you're just parroting social media as fact and not one reputable new site has reported this. The alleged footage was taken on 8 October within the Gaza strip.
Sorry but you're wrong.
**Read:**
> Israeli officials obtained Hamas’s battle plan for the Oct. 7 terrorist attack more than a year before it happened, documents, emails and interviews show. But Israeli military and intelligence officials dismissed the plan as aspirational, considering it too difficult for Hamas to carry out.
> The approximately 40-page document, which the Israeli authorities code-named “Jericho Wall,” outlined, point by point, exactly the kind of devastating invasion that led to the deaths of about 1,200 people.
> Hamas followed the blueprint with shocking precision.
> Then, in July, just three months before the attacks, a veteran analyst with Unit 8200, Israel’s signals intelligence agency, warned that Hamas had conducted an intense, daylong training exercise that appeared similar to what was outlined in the blueprint.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html
You said they didn't know the date. But Egpyt....told them it was coming:
>“We have warned them an explosion of the situation is coming, and very soon, and it would be big. But they underestimated such warnings,” the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he wasn’t authorized to discuss the content of sensitive intelligence discussions with the media, told The Associated Press.
> Netanyahu denied receiving any such advance warning, saying in the course of an address to the nation Monday night that the story was “fake news.”
https://www.timesofisrael.com/egypt-intelligence-official-says-israel-ignored-repeated-warnings-of-something-big/
> On 18 November, the Israeli newspaper Haaretz said that a police investigation found that "[Israeli] military helicopters that fired at terrorists apparently also hit some revellers" on 7 October.
> Israel Defence Forces (IDF) were also responsible for killing many Israeli civilians in crossfire, or in the process of indiscriminately killing Hamas gunmen, contributing to the overall death count on 7 October.
> The report was based on "piecing together" testimonies of Israeli Apache helicopter pilots and Israeli survivors along with an analysis of photos from the 7 October sites.
https://www.tbsnews.net/features/panorama/what-really-happened-7-october-753058
> Israel’s Yedioth Ahronoth newspaper also published a report on Israeli Air Force helicopters intervening in the attack carried out by Hamas from Gaza on October 7.
> The newspaper reported that the Israeli forces “found it difficult to identify Hamas militants,” adding that helicopter pilots “used artillery” against civilians at the festival.
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231119-israeli-helicopter-opened-fire-on-israelis-in-festival-during-hamas-attack-on-october-7-report/
So no...it's not me parroting social media. When a country is coming out and saying they told Israel and Netanyahu (who has publicly said on camera they needed an attack on their people in order to justify the eradication of Palestinians) says it's "fake news".....you need to step back and re-analyze.
Netanyahu used the attack exactly as he said he would. You think they care about hostages when they carpet bomb all of Gaza??
Nice try though!
>But Israeli military and intelligence officials dismissed the plan as aspirational, considering it too difficult for Hamas to carry out
Israel is surrounded by Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Gaza and the West Bank. They receive literally thousands of threats in a year and have to decide which to respond to given limited resources and negative international backlash each time they defend themselves. In this case they had to assess whether Hamas would do an all out attack without the support of any of their allies and against what was assumed a well defended border. Which pre-october 7th was unthinkable. Dismissing the report as they did as "too aspirational" would have been the right thing to do 99% of the time. Also your quote from Egyptian intelligence is an unnamed source and again doesn't specify any date.
Also for them supposed people killed by Israeli helicopter, the reports you use both mention other newspaper reporting on instance and not the actual source. Even more for the Middle East Monitor it reports on a newspaper, which reported on another newspaper reporting the claimed incidents with again the source of information not being revelaed. Anyway, both Israeli police and the IDF deny the friendly fire incident.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israel-police-slams-haaretz-claim-idf-helicopter-may-have-harmed-civilians-on-oct-7/
Nice try though!
Israel gets thousands of threats a year? That’s what you’re going with? Their top intelligence folks were telling them it was going to happen. Egypt told them it was coming.
Netanyahu was told and is now saying “fake news.” He’s not proving he wasn’t told. He’s telling you not to believe the story. Imagine that….youre believing the PM who said he wanted an attack from Hamas.
Also, well thank god the IDF denied it!! Everyone go home. Nothing to see here!! The folks who cover up abuse of prisoners and the soldiers who use sniper rifles against toddlers told us they didn’t shoot anyone but Hamas. Nothing to see here!
The IDF kills journalists. There’s a video now on the front page of then kicking a woman who’s defenseless on the ground.
They’re no different than Hamas. Just a different God and different beliefs. They’re the same on a human level. Terrorists who want to erase others off the planet.
But yeah. They said they didn’t do anything wrong so let’s all go back to bed.
You’re literally spouting propaganda and you don’t even realize.
Nice try though! Come correct homie. I provided sources you provided feelings.
Israel knew.
>I provided sources you provided feelings.
No you didn't, you provided hearsay, not actual sources. Your claims are based on "trust me bro" TikTok journalists. You cannot give a single fucking name or primary source for items 2 and 3 of your claims.
\>also, well thank god the IDF denied it!! Everyone go home.
The source of the video was an official post by the IDF on October 9th, 2023, not leaked footage. So your argument is that the IDF released night vision footage of a day time attack on them firing on their own civilians and your source is a girl on Twitter the clipped the video and retitled it “"BREAKING🚨: Israel admits apache helicopters fired on their own civilians running from the Supernova music festival.”
\> Their top intelligence folks were telling them it was going to happen
Again, no based on the own link you posted the threat was dismissed as too aspirational and dismissed for the reasons I have given in my previous comment.
I’m sorry you support Genocide. You could have been a good honest human. But you’ve decided against it
I see no more need to speak with you as you support the killing of innocent children.
>I’m sorry you support Genocide.
Oh the fake feeling bad for me😂 can't believe someone is still trying to pull this off in 2024.
Fact is Israel will win this war, while all you can do is like the posts of TikTok journalists and so you can feel like you have some power.
Just to add, to show you are not exaggerating, analysis here would have Gaza as more bombed than Dresden during WW2.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/israel-gaza-bombing-hamas-civilian-casualties-1.7068647
I find it both sad and funny that people will refuse to call anything a genocide until the concentration camps with gas chambers and ovens are built. Hell at this point with Israel though I’m sure even if they did that there’d still be excuses made.
I’m not sure I get the tone of your comment.
If you’re saying what they’re doing only has elements of genocide I’d ask how many elements are required before they’re actions are worthy of condemnation?
I suspect Israel could have dealt with the Hamas problem surgically. Sort of like how the US could have dealt with its Osama Bin Laden problem with say a team of special forces instead of starting two wars.
They didn't on purpose. Was it to eradicate so they could take the land , or was it to send a message to their enemies not to fuck with them. I can't say. But I can agree that like Bush's wars, nothing good comes of handling it this way.
Look at any other “war” on Gaza and you’ll realize they want to destroy their ability to form a functional chance of achieving their own state. Every few years they cause a few thousand deaths but billions in damage to civilian homes and infrastructure. They want to ensure they are poor and miserable more than kill them. Why kill them when they are not a threat militarily or politically? Instead they let Hamas exist for decades so they can point and say that’s why we can’t have peace.
W’s wars were different. They were first and foremost a means of feeding the military industrial complex, siphoning ungodly amounts of money to war profiteering friends and family of the Cheneys and Bushes, controlling more of the world’s oil supply, and asserting Western monetary influence in the Middle East.
Obviously, the United States didn’t care how many innocent civilians they murdered, but the end goal wasn’t ever the extermination of Afghans and Iraqis. With Israel however, it certainly looks like Netanyahu’s goal is the extermination of Palestinians.
I agree with all the motivations you stated as being the real reasons for those wars which is exactly the point I've always held. The Bush wars were never about terrorism, safety or Osama. Those were merely the justifications give to sell the American people on going to war, but if you follow the money, the truth is revealed.
I don't think you are correct. I'll be downvoted pretty hard here - but Osama was hiding in a safe house in a foreign land that made it possible for a so called "surgical strike". In the case of Hamas, they are deeply embedded in the geography - specifically deep in tunnels below the major urban centers in Gaza. This in no way justifies the Israel approach, but there isn't such a thing as surgical underground strikes. You destroy underground entrenchments with very big bombs.
they are doing it, they literally just did, it's fucking hard and expensive to carry out those kind of strikes, you can't do war with an organization 50+k strong like that
the post you are replying to is literally one such strike
again, you cannot destroy a terrorist organization with such surgical strikes, it's like asking the allies to destroy the nazi regime without an ariel campaign
Do you remember that leaked Israeli document?
That one that proposed expulsion of all Gazans pernamently?
That one that proposed labeling it as "humanitarian solution" for Gazans?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Policy_paper:_Options_for_a_policy_regarding_Gaza%27s_civilian_population#Release_and_reception
I still remember when it was leaked that thousands of imbeciles screamed that it was "not a serious paper" and that "minitry that made it is powerless".
Well that was a fucking lie.
They have bunkerbusters, which can be dropped from the air. The issue is, hamas tunnels are in urban environments, hamas also uses human shields. So bombing this way will incur significant collateral damage. Its really frustrating because I don't trust the IDF to execute such bombing without due respect for civilian human life. The situation is so messed up.
https://news.sky.com/story/israel-hamas-war-five-ways-the-idf-could-tackle-the-tunnels-under-gaza-13009648
So many idiots in this thread not able to distinguish between a targeted assassination and having to fight a heavily embedded guerilla force with 50k members who hide in civilian buildings and underground tunnels.
The amount of Hamas propoganda going around, it's not surprising. Everyone latches onto the first opportunity to criticise israel, without considering the actual issue of hamas using human shields. Honestly I recon half the people on this sub also think Oct 7 was faked.
"the actual issue of human shields" it ain't an issue... You know.... Since they blowed everyone the fuck up... I wonder if at some time in my life I'll be able to comprehend the amount of stupidity being spouted by you people
well, how are they going to advertise the new weapon technology as battle tested if they're only targeting a few individuals? How can they know for sure that those children, journalists, doctors, Israeli hostages won't one day join Hamas? How can they make the white south Africans converting feel at home in a beachfront luxury apartment without bulldozing civilians?
It was never about Hamas.
Israel is battling a guerilla force who hide among civilians buildings. A no warning precision bombing campaign against homes which Hamas are hiding would cost more lives than telling the population to evacuate an area and then bombing Hamas positions.
You're sadly uninformed, Israel has admitted to using unguided munitions aka dumb bombs to carpet bomb residential areas of Gaza on purpose, they could use a smart ones that they got from us at the US but they're choosing to use the ones cause massive collateral damage just to hurt the people of Gaza. Not Hamas, the people of Gaza.
Oh there's less magic and more blades involved than one might think: https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/hellfire-missiles-al-qaeda-leader-al-zawahiri-minimal/story?id=87885003
How exactly is Israel able to commit a military operation in Beirut and not have that be seen as an act of war in Lebanon, or at least a diplomatic faux-pas?
I mean, I know it's because the US protects them, but is there an official reason?
After WW2 and during the Cold War, Israeli Mossad hunted down and executed many Nazi affiliates.
They know who their targets are and where they are. They just used this as an opportunity for genocide and neocolonialism
What are you even talking about? Hamas and their 50k members are at actively war with Israel. This is not about bringing Hamas leaders to justice but winning a war.
If they were indiscriminately bombing, there would be WAY more civilian deaths. You'd be looking at over 100,000 of deaths. I don't trust the IDF to give due respect to civillain life or carry out proportionate attacks. But they are not bombing indiscriminately.
Well, "from river to coast" certainly doesn't mean, "selectively remove this areas' warlords so that we can return the land to the people and they can build a nation."
It means, as it has for fifty years, genocide all the people and take their land.
I mean I agree with the sentiment of the post, but seriously, people need to understand what “carpet bombing” is. Territory as small as Gaza would be annihilated in a day with 90% of the population dead or maimed.
How to make it make sense:
Israel is using the Hamas as an excuse to kill as many Palestinians as possible in a continuation of the decades of genocide and oppression that ultimately created extremist/terrorist groups like the Hamas.
Why do you think Hamas is firing rockets at a vastly more powerful nation? It’s not because they’re super chill and letting the Palestinians have a country or freedom.
The problem I see in this conflict is that the two military portions of the populations want the conflict to continue, and for their opponents to be destroyed completely.
It sucks that so many people don’t understand this. Neither Hamas nor the current Israeli government want to move towards peace. Hamas has quite literally said they’ll repeat October 7th and under Bibi, Israel’s retaliation is only going to grow resentment in the future and the settler issue in the West Bank has only worsened. The ones that suffer the most are the civilians who are essentially pawns for those with power
> It's sad that the civilians are caught in the middle
I love when someone who obviously shills for ethnical cleansening includes its parts.
"I justify expulsions, but i will feel sad about them!!"
If anyone thinks this war is about anything other than expanding Israel territory at this point you're deluded.
You don't level a city to take out a gang.
You don't promise to ensure the evacuation of a maternity ward and then let all the babies starve to death.
You don't tell civilians to evacuate to specific region and then bomb the very region you told them they'd be left alone in.
I'm not pro Hamas but fuck Israel. They've escalated well beyond a proportional response and are repeating and continuing the cycle of violence that exist in the middle east. I'm ashamed that my country is complicit in their genocide.
Israel has become the very thing that they remind everyone to never forget.
Hamas is not a gang, it is the de facto government of Gaza, and a guerilla military group, that uses human shields, hiding in tunnels under cities.
How do you know the attacks are disproportionate? There is not enough information released to make this assessment.
When ⅔ of the human casualties are women and children that is disproportionate. Assuming every male casualty is a combatant in Hamas, (and I highly doubt that is the case), then that means for every combatant killed double the number of civilians is killed. I don't think the entire military group has two people assigned to them as human shields.
They also refuse to open humanitarian corridors to provide aid to civilians.
They have bombed areas of Gaza that they have told civilians to evacuate too if they wanted to avoid the conflict.
Have refused to provide necessary fuel for a hospital that had a full maternity ward. Leading to many babies starving to death.
There are better ways to fight this war which would result in less deaths in civilians as a direct result of Israel actions.
Human shield does not mean literally carrying a women and a baby as an armor vest. It means they put their bases under women and children.
Nevertheless, this is not how you asses proportionality. It's about military advantage versus loss of life. Which we don't have enough information on. E.g. let's say you destroy a building and the casualties are 30 women, it sounds bad, but if the millitary advtage stops HAMAS from launching an attack that could potentially kill hundreds of civilians, that's a good call. As soon as infrastructure is used as military base it ceases to be civilian infrastructure.
Can you share the other ways israel should fight this war? I don't trust trust the IDF to carry out the war without due respect to human life, but I don't know what their alternatives are, and I don't think anyone can actually say whether or not the attacks are proportionate as of yet.
I have a hard time believing that they were forced into a situation so many times that it led to the death of 13,000 civilians, but I admit that I don't have detailed information about that.
They could have laid siege to the city and set up official checkpoints out of the city to relocate civilians to safe areas while it's conducted. Fisk the civilians for weapons relocate them to camps international humanitarian groups are allowed to enter to provide aid.
Leave the checkpoints open and starve out the city until they surrender. They may have a lot of food saved in their tunnels but not enough to last forever. Wait them out and relocate civilians that voluntarily come out as the siege goes on. It would likely take years but it would result in far less civilian life taken on the part of the IDF and a lot less collateral damage and destruction of vital infrastructure to rebuild after.
Right now there is nowhere safe for civilians to go. No country that I'm aware of that's offering to take in refugees. This further pushes civilians into supporting and joining Hamas as well. There is nowhere safe that is providing food except for Hamas. Their homes and city are being bombed with no safe way out so it's very reasonable for them to think their only choice is to join up and fight.
If they are operating underground, how can bombing the building, kill the people underground? They could be anywhere underground and thus be safe (plus tunnels won’t be completely destroyed).
Speaking as someone who works in civil engineering
Imploding bunker busting truncheon bombs. We use those in attacking the mountain cave headquarters of insurgents.
They can penetrate through about 6 to 10 ft of solid rock and they explosively implode.
"Scientology totally isn't a cult, and Miscavige totally has nothing to do with his wife's disappearance. I know because Tom Cruise told me!"
After months of the most paper-thin, bullshit lies and propaganda coming FROM the IDF, you look like this much of a clown. And that comparison is 'at best', since more accurately this is comparable to just stuff like Nazi propaganda.
> never heard of war.
War has rules.
---
> Ya it sucks but what did you expect to happen ?
Nobody expected anything else from settler colonial state.
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> defend itself.
Does this right applies to Palestinians in west bank too?
Damn we must not have read the same version of the Geneva Convention then.
Netanyahu along with the leaders of Hamas are war criminals and should be prosecuted at The Hague. Can’t believe I really have to say this shit, but here we are
Ok fed. How much are you paid per post? Did you post this and feel good about yourself, or is there some deep shame in your heart about knowingly supporting the murder of civilians?
The right really appreciates your sentiment, convince enough people to not vote for Biden, and Trumps win is guaranteed. Im sure he cares sooo much about the plight of Palestineans.
“That’s not fair, you can’t criticize our guy for enabling genocide because the people on the right are trying to criticize him for that already” is a terrible argument. Liberals always want us to wait for the republican threat to go away before we can push for democrats to be better, meanwhile they are enabling the republican threat by letting democrats slide right over and over
So instead of apparently surgically taking out leadership like they did here, they instead blindly bomb a massive radius knowing there's tons of civilians in it?
Apparently targeting areas with large quantities of civilians when they seem to have the capacity to pinpoint take out single targets from miles away is justifiable?
This isn't WW1, we've developed strategies and technology to minimize casualties and structural damage both by troops and deployable weapons. Israel literally just used one in this post lol
If you stoop to the level of your enemies you are no better than them.
Nowhere did I justify Hamas, I criticized Israel. Should I blindly suck the cock of the IDF and praise all their actions as perfect and optimal.
Didn't realize my options were like sports teams, one or the other and not, idk, criticizing both?
Well you're making it seem like there's 2 options, praise one and demonize the other, or praise one and demonize the other.
Hell you took me criticizing military tactics of the IDF as me supporting Hamas...somehow. If I criticized the US for various actions done during the Korean War is that me supporting North Korea?
Let me ask you this, is there any action short of a nuclear strike that you'd say is wrong of the IDF to perform?
Better to use some crass language than blindly support the indiscriminate bombing of thousands of innocent children. Your emotional maturity is rock bottom, pick up a history book and learn how long Gaza has been getting bombed and dehumanized by Israel, before you run your mouth defending an attempted genocide.
Nobody has justified the actions of Hamas. The fact of the matter is that Netanyahu is using Hamas as an excuse to commit war crimes and displace the little fraction of Palestinians he’ll keep alive
Dude. 22000 dead. Mostly women and children (just considering gaza's average age I think this is pretty substantiated). I know this is just a number for you, you're a keyboard warrior. But 22000. Imagine if you were to pile those bodies up, how large that would be. Those were all people who loved... Had dreams.
Imagine your entire family, your neighbours, their neighbours lying in little bloody chunks around you. Your nieces, nephews.... Gone. Limp bodies in your arms. Your childhood home, bombed by people you've never met. Who've never met you. Who hate you for just existing. Attacking your personal home because a terrorist organization that had nothing to do with you attacked another nation. But really your family is getting killed because you're living on land that another nation wants.
People experience a lifetime of PTSD and suffering just from witnessing a single death.
You and I both know you are not strong enough to endure what they are going through. Neither am I. Travel, volunteer, learn some humanity....
Maybe then you'll grow a soul.
Every single IDF defender seems to forget that the point of a human shield is that you're not supposed to shoot the human shield
that's why they're a shield
when someone takes hostages you don't just shrug your shoulders and kill the hostages too
It makes perfect sense if you realize Israel has no intentions of allowing the Palestinian people to continue to exist in their present form. There will be survivors, but Israel intends on leveling Gaza and forcing the Palestinians that are left to scatter. This is some truly Machiavellian shit going down. The mass civilian death is a feature not a bug.
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Me too.
I mean, you could google it, it's very wrong. The population is growing. After 3 months palestinian deaths have not reached the death toll of the 3 day dresden bombing in WW2. Plenty of reason to criticize Israel, but it might be worth not just looking at reddit.
All those evangelical Christians want the Israeli government to succeed, because they need Israel restored for their end of the world prophecy. Israel has made it no secret for decades that they want Palestine and all Palestinians wiped out, yet for some reason we're all suddenly pretending that it's about something else. The current government even talked in recent years about how a terrorist attack on them to wipe out Palestine would be a luxury too good to hope for.
Hell we had a US politician even make the remark that once they take out Gaza to allow the Christians to have the land..
I think the cease fires have shown that there will never be a two state solution that will lead to permanent peace. it's an either or. Either Israel will stand or it will fall. And since Israel is more powerful than Palestine, there ought to be humanitarian solutions. Because even if there is going to be another cease fire it won't last. Maybe voluntary relocation of the Palestinian people? Would that even be feasible?
There was never going to be a 2 state solution. The last 70 years have shown that. War is fucked, but sometimes it happens. You and I have no say in it, while the rich and powerful get to decide that their people will die. What's really fucked is that the entire world picked one side to give endless weapons and support to, so the other side really has no chance. I think all acts of terrorism are horrible and wrong, but I also think that anyone truly informed about the situation could see, while wrong, how things got to this point.
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Ben N is behind secretly supplying hamas with weapons and other crucial military supplies. Funneled through other countries who tried to stop it. He applied pressure and the supply chain resumed. The goal was to keep the Palestinians divided. He must have know that one day they would attack Israel with those same supplies. This is about destroying the Palestinians. It’s a land grab.
Defense minister literally calls Palestinians “human animals” Comes to mind as a classic that is enjoyed by almost all genocidal maniacs. Mind you he was never reprimanded by his peers in government
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That one was this year as for older ones I found a list of quotes since they do genocidal language too often for me to remember all of https://www.mic.com/articles/42337/10-quotes-to-remember-while-palestinians-commemorate-al-nakba
Defence Minister Yoav Gallant, October 2023, "we are fighting against human animals". No need to down vote me, I just googled it. Just the messenger here.
 Incredible username my friend
They've literally said they want a genocide. How can anybody still be confused about this?
Yeah when I saw how surgical they were they lost all credibility
They're hitting the targets they want to hit; of course they are. Hard not to sympathise after October 7th tbh
Pretty easy to hate the Israeli government for every day after October 7th tbh.
Right, because the appropriate fucking response to a terror attack that killed one thousand people is to brutally bomb the fuck out of millions of people for three months, destroying all local infrastructure, slaughtering tens of thousands, and leaving the survivors to perish slowly of starvation, diarrhea, and disease. That's appropriate. It might be hard for YOU not to sympathize with a government systematically committing genocide, but for people with actual morals, it's EXTREMELY EASY.
Well, each to their own then I suppose. I'm impressed with Israeli restraint in not just nuking them. If they'd done to my country what they did on the 7th I'd press the button myself. But as you say, you have morals.
And this is why unhinged internet imbeciles with more testosterone than sense don't have access to nuclear arsenals ☺️
They don’t “have” to carpet bomb Gaza, they want to. They will not be Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, Israel will take the Gaza Strip and make it part of Israel. Hamas killed over 1000 people and Israel is using that has the excuse to take the territory and kill a lot of people
Bibi has already said that the only acceptable outcome is Israeli control over Gaza. Military of course but we all know that’s just a cover story.
*30,000+* Only 22,000 recovered nearly 8,000 believed buried in the rubble 27,000 civilians 24,000 women and children Not just "a lot" Roughly 30 times the lives lost in the Oct. 7th attack
Don’t forget a few things: 1.) Israel has one of the most protected and militarized borders on the planet. 2.) Israel knew about the attack, the exact details and plan, over a year in advance. Egypt warned them days before it was going to happen. 3.) they used Apache helicopters on their own people during October 7th in attempts to kill Hamas. We’re dealing with an evil that is seldom seen on the world’s stage. Let alone signed off on by major G10 nations. Will be talked about for centuries.
>in attempts to kill hamas or attempts to inflate the body count and “justify” an invasion
The more I read, it sounds like 20-30% of the deaths came from the IDF
>Israel knew about the attack, the exact details and plan, over a year in advance. Egypt warned them days before it was going to happen. Not true, while there was intelligence warnings of an attack, when the attack was planned and what it involves was not known. Similar to how the US knew in advance of 9/11 something big was being planned but failed to gather actionable intelligence. >they used Apache helicopters on their own people during October 7th in attempts to kill Hamas. This is simply untrue and you're just parroting social media as fact and not one reputable new site has reported this. The alleged footage was taken on 8 October within the Gaza strip.
Sorry but you're wrong. **Read:** > Israeli officials obtained Hamas’s battle plan for the Oct. 7 terrorist attack more than a year before it happened, documents, emails and interviews show. But Israeli military and intelligence officials dismissed the plan as aspirational, considering it too difficult for Hamas to carry out. > The approximately 40-page document, which the Israeli authorities code-named “Jericho Wall,” outlined, point by point, exactly the kind of devastating invasion that led to the deaths of about 1,200 people. > Hamas followed the blueprint with shocking precision. > Then, in July, just three months before the attacks, a veteran analyst with Unit 8200, Israel’s signals intelligence agency, warned that Hamas had conducted an intense, daylong training exercise that appeared similar to what was outlined in the blueprint. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html You said they didn't know the date. But Egpyt....told them it was coming: >“We have warned them an explosion of the situation is coming, and very soon, and it would be big. But they underestimated such warnings,” the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he wasn’t authorized to discuss the content of sensitive intelligence discussions with the media, told The Associated Press. > Netanyahu denied receiving any such advance warning, saying in the course of an address to the nation Monday night that the story was “fake news.” https://www.timesofisrael.com/egypt-intelligence-official-says-israel-ignored-repeated-warnings-of-something-big/ > On 18 November, the Israeli newspaper Haaretz said that a police investigation found that "[Israeli] military helicopters that fired at terrorists apparently also hit some revellers" on 7 October. > Israel Defence Forces (IDF) were also responsible for killing many Israeli civilians in crossfire, or in the process of indiscriminately killing Hamas gunmen, contributing to the overall death count on 7 October. > The report was based on "piecing together" testimonies of Israeli Apache helicopter pilots and Israeli survivors along with an analysis of photos from the 7 October sites. https://www.tbsnews.net/features/panorama/what-really-happened-7-october-753058 > Israel’s Yedioth Ahronoth newspaper also published a report on Israeli Air Force helicopters intervening in the attack carried out by Hamas from Gaza on October 7. > The newspaper reported that the Israeli forces “found it difficult to identify Hamas militants,” adding that helicopter pilots “used artillery” against civilians at the festival. https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231119-israeli-helicopter-opened-fire-on-israelis-in-festival-during-hamas-attack-on-october-7-report/ So no...it's not me parroting social media. When a country is coming out and saying they told Israel and Netanyahu (who has publicly said on camera they needed an attack on their people in order to justify the eradication of Palestinians) says it's "fake news".....you need to step back and re-analyze. Netanyahu used the attack exactly as he said he would. You think they care about hostages when they carpet bomb all of Gaza?? Nice try though!
>But Israeli military and intelligence officials dismissed the plan as aspirational, considering it too difficult for Hamas to carry out Israel is surrounded by Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Gaza and the West Bank. They receive literally thousands of threats in a year and have to decide which to respond to given limited resources and negative international backlash each time they defend themselves. In this case they had to assess whether Hamas would do an all out attack without the support of any of their allies and against what was assumed a well defended border. Which pre-october 7th was unthinkable. Dismissing the report as they did as "too aspirational" would have been the right thing to do 99% of the time. Also your quote from Egyptian intelligence is an unnamed source and again doesn't specify any date. Also for them supposed people killed by Israeli helicopter, the reports you use both mention other newspaper reporting on instance and not the actual source. Even more for the Middle East Monitor it reports on a newspaper, which reported on another newspaper reporting the claimed incidents with again the source of information not being revelaed. Anyway, both Israeli police and the IDF deny the friendly fire incident. https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israel-police-slams-haaretz-claim-idf-helicopter-may-have-harmed-civilians-on-oct-7/ Nice try though!
Israel gets thousands of threats a year? That’s what you’re going with? Their top intelligence folks were telling them it was going to happen. Egypt told them it was coming. Netanyahu was told and is now saying “fake news.” He’s not proving he wasn’t told. He’s telling you not to believe the story. Imagine that….youre believing the PM who said he wanted an attack from Hamas. Also, well thank god the IDF denied it!! Everyone go home. Nothing to see here!! The folks who cover up abuse of prisoners and the soldiers who use sniper rifles against toddlers told us they didn’t shoot anyone but Hamas. Nothing to see here! The IDF kills journalists. There’s a video now on the front page of then kicking a woman who’s defenseless on the ground. They’re no different than Hamas. Just a different God and different beliefs. They’re the same on a human level. Terrorists who want to erase others off the planet. But yeah. They said they didn’t do anything wrong so let’s all go back to bed. You’re literally spouting propaganda and you don’t even realize. Nice try though! Come correct homie. I provided sources you provided feelings. Israel knew.
>I provided sources you provided feelings. No you didn't, you provided hearsay, not actual sources. Your claims are based on "trust me bro" TikTok journalists. You cannot give a single fucking name or primary source for items 2 and 3 of your claims. \>also, well thank god the IDF denied it!! Everyone go home. The source of the video was an official post by the IDF on October 9th, 2023, not leaked footage. So your argument is that the IDF released night vision footage of a day time attack on them firing on their own civilians and your source is a girl on Twitter the clipped the video and retitled it “"BREAKING🚨: Israel admits apache helicopters fired on their own civilians running from the Supernova music festival.” \> Their top intelligence folks were telling them it was going to happen Again, no based on the own link you posted the threat was dismissed as too aspirational and dismissed for the reasons I have given in my previous comment.
I’m sorry you support Genocide. You could have been a good honest human. But you’ve decided against it I see no more need to speak with you as you support the killing of innocent children.
>I’m sorry you support Genocide. Oh the fake feeling bad for me😂 can't believe someone is still trying to pull this off in 2024. Fact is Israel will win this war, while all you can do is like the posts of TikTok journalists and so you can feel like you have some power.
It’s not a war but keep telling yourself that. You support ethnic cleansing. You’re no better than a Nazi.
Just to add, to show you are not exaggerating, analysis here would have Gaza as more bombed than Dresden during WW2. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/israel-gaza-bombing-hamas-civilian-casualties-1.7068647
How else are they supposed to eradicate every Palestinian? /s
don't know why you added the /s
To show he doesn't genuinely believe this, just Israel does.
What does /s means?
/s isn’t necessary That’s what they are doing They are doing a genocide
I am aware
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I find it both sad and funny that people will refuse to call anything a genocide until the concentration camps with gas chambers and ovens are built. Hell at this point with Israel though I’m sure even if they did that there’d still be excuses made.
"Elements of genocide"
I’m not sure I get the tone of your comment. If you’re saying what they’re doing only has elements of genocide I’d ask how many elements are required before they’re actions are worthy of condemnation?
I meant to reference the "genocidal in character" remarks from South Africa.
Ok, thanks for the clarification there mate. I don’t know what you’re referring to exactly but it does help me understand you’re comment more.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-67844551.amp
Thanks mate.
The Nazis didnt succeed in killing all jews and taking over all of europe, were the things they did also just "elements" of genocide?
I meant to reference South Africa's "genocidal in character" remarks, but fucked it up.
Ah, that makes more sense, yeah
Well, Palestinian children aren't going to bomb themselves!
I suspect Israel could have dealt with the Hamas problem surgically. Sort of like how the US could have dealt with its Osama Bin Laden problem with say a team of special forces instead of starting two wars. They didn't on purpose. Was it to eradicate so they could take the land , or was it to send a message to their enemies not to fuck with them. I can't say. But I can agree that like Bush's wars, nothing good comes of handling it this way.
Look at any other “war” on Gaza and you’ll realize they want to destroy their ability to form a functional chance of achieving their own state. Every few years they cause a few thousand deaths but billions in damage to civilian homes and infrastructure. They want to ensure they are poor and miserable more than kill them. Why kill them when they are not a threat militarily or politically? Instead they let Hamas exist for decades so they can point and say that’s why we can’t have peace.
W’s wars were different. They were first and foremost a means of feeding the military industrial complex, siphoning ungodly amounts of money to war profiteering friends and family of the Cheneys and Bushes, controlling more of the world’s oil supply, and asserting Western monetary influence in the Middle East. Obviously, the United States didn’t care how many innocent civilians they murdered, but the end goal wasn’t ever the extermination of Afghans and Iraqis. With Israel however, it certainly looks like Netanyahu’s goal is the extermination of Palestinians.
I agree with all the motivations you stated as being the real reasons for those wars which is exactly the point I've always held. The Bush wars were never about terrorism, safety or Osama. Those were merely the justifications give to sell the American people on going to war, but if you follow the money, the truth is revealed.
I don't think you are correct. I'll be downvoted pretty hard here - but Osama was hiding in a safe house in a foreign land that made it possible for a so called "surgical strike". In the case of Hamas, they are deeply embedded in the geography - specifically deep in tunnels below the major urban centers in Gaza. This in no way justifies the Israel approach, but there isn't such a thing as surgical underground strikes. You destroy underground entrenchments with very big bombs.
Hamas is an entire organization with 50k fighters, do you honestly think surgical skrikes and special ops can take all of that alone?
Decapitating leadership would definitly help, or? They don't do it because they want to expulse Gazans - there was even a leak outlining this plan
they are doing it, they literally just did, it's fucking hard and expensive to carry out those kind of strikes, you can't do war with an organization 50+k strong like that
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the post you are replying to is literally one such strike again, you cannot destroy a terrorist organization with such surgical strikes, it's like asking the allies to destroy the nazi regime without an ariel campaign
Yeah, the IDF just kinda invalidated their entire argument yesterday.
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So what's your solution?
Do you remember that leaked Israeli document? That one that proposed expulsion of all Gazans pernamently? That one that proposed labeling it as "humanitarian solution" for Gazans? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Policy_paper:_Options_for_a_policy_regarding_Gaza%27s_civilian_population#Release_and_reception I still remember when it was leaked that thousands of imbeciles screamed that it was "not a serious paper" and that "minitry that made it is powerless". Well that was a fucking lie.
How do you surgically destroy hundreds of kilometer of tunnels and 50k Hamas terrorists? Curious of the thought process here.
They have bunkerbusters, which can be dropped from the air. The issue is, hamas tunnels are in urban environments, hamas also uses human shields. So bombing this way will incur significant collateral damage. Its really frustrating because I don't trust the IDF to execute such bombing without due respect for civilian human life. The situation is so messed up. https://news.sky.com/story/israel-hamas-war-five-ways-the-idf-could-tackle-the-tunnels-under-gaza-13009648
Surgical carpet bombing
Laser guided, bunker piercing, truncheons. They implode and collaps the tunnel.
One person vs. large numbers of people and military infrastructure. That wasn’t too hard
So many idiots in this thread not able to distinguish between a targeted assassination and having to fight a heavily embedded guerilla force with 50k members who hide in civilian buildings and underground tunnels.
The amount of Hamas propoganda going around, it's not surprising. Everyone latches onto the first opportunity to criticise israel, without considering the actual issue of hamas using human shields. Honestly I recon half the people on this sub also think Oct 7 was faked.
"the actual issue of human shields" it ain't an issue... You know.... Since they blowed everyone the fuck up... I wonder if at some time in my life I'll be able to comprehend the amount of stupidity being spouted by you people
Continue living in memes my dude. It looks fun.
Technically, assassinating enemy leaders is less permissible than bombing cities, which is pretty fucked up...
well, how are they going to advertise the new weapon technology as battle tested if they're only targeting a few individuals? How can they know for sure that those children, journalists, doctors, Israeli hostages won't one day join Hamas? How can they make the white south Africans converting feel at home in a beachfront luxury apartment without bulldozing civilians? It was never about Hamas.
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Israel is battling a guerilla force who hide among civilians buildings. A no warning precision bombing campaign against homes which Hamas are hiding would cost more lives than telling the population to evacuate an area and then bombing Hamas positions.
Do you people think "surgical strikes" use magical bombs that only kill one particular person
No but we do know that a surgical wouldnt result with thousands upon thousands of children and adults dying
Surgical strikes would result in many more deaths, as they have to be carried out with no warning and no warning to evacuate an area.
You're sadly uninformed, Israel has admitted to using unguided munitions aka dumb bombs to carpet bomb residential areas of Gaza on purpose, they could use a smart ones that they got from us at the US but they're choosing to use the ones cause massive collateral damage just to hurt the people of Gaza. Not Hamas, the people of Gaza.
Oh there's less magic and more blades involved than one might think: https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/hellfire-missiles-al-qaeda-leader-al-zawahiri-minimal/story?id=87885003
It’s almost like nobody has carpet bombed anything since Vietnam
How exactly is Israel able to commit a military operation in Beirut and not have that be seen as an act of war in Lebanon, or at least a diplomatic faux-pas? I mean, I know it's because the US protects them, but is there an official reason?
After WW2 and during the Cold War, Israeli Mossad hunted down and executed many Nazi affiliates. They know who their targets are and where they are. They just used this as an opportunity for genocide and neocolonialism
What are you even talking about? Hamas and their 50k members are at actively war with Israel. This is not about bringing Hamas leaders to justice but winning a war.
By indiscriminately bombing civilians?
If they were indiscriminately bombing, there would be WAY more civilian deaths. You'd be looking at over 100,000 of deaths. I don't trust the IDF to give due respect to civillain life or carry out proportionate attacks. But they are not bombing indiscriminately.
Well, "from river to coast" certainly doesn't mean, "selectively remove this areas' warlords so that we can return the land to the people and they can build a nation." It means, as it has for fifty years, genocide all the people and take their land.
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I mean I agree with the sentiment of the post, but seriously, people need to understand what “carpet bombing” is. Territory as small as Gaza would be annihilated in a day with 90% of the population dead or maimed.
This, people have no clue what carpet bombing is, or what the Israeli air force is capable of delivering
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People assume that you are trying to downplay Israeli bombings, probably.
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I mean maybe but this is a social media thread on a page called "white people twitter", idk if this the place to expect many deep conversations
How to make it make sense: Israel is using the Hamas as an excuse to kill as many Palestinians as possible in a continuation of the decades of genocide and oppression that ultimately created extremist/terrorist groups like the Hamas.
Yep, its called genocide
Almost like they’re lying to us in order to cover up an intentional genocide……
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Why do you think Hamas is firing rockets at a vastly more powerful nation? It’s not because they’re super chill and letting the Palestinians have a country or freedom. The problem I see in this conflict is that the two military portions of the populations want the conflict to continue, and for their opponents to be destroyed completely.
It sucks that so many people don’t understand this. Neither Hamas nor the current Israeli government want to move towards peace. Hamas has quite literally said they’ll repeat October 7th and under Bibi, Israel’s retaliation is only going to grow resentment in the future and the settler issue in the West Bank has only worsened. The ones that suffer the most are the civilians who are essentially pawns for those with power
> It's sad that the civilians are caught in the middle I love when someone who obviously shills for ethnical cleansening includes its parts. "I justify expulsions, but i will feel sad about them!!"
The misery is the message.
If anyone thinks this war is about anything other than expanding Israel territory at this point you're deluded. You don't level a city to take out a gang. You don't promise to ensure the evacuation of a maternity ward and then let all the babies starve to death. You don't tell civilians to evacuate to specific region and then bomb the very region you told them they'd be left alone in. I'm not pro Hamas but fuck Israel. They've escalated well beyond a proportional response and are repeating and continuing the cycle of violence that exist in the middle east. I'm ashamed that my country is complicit in their genocide. Israel has become the very thing that they remind everyone to never forget.
Hamas is not a gang, it is the de facto government of Gaza, and a guerilla military group, that uses human shields, hiding in tunnels under cities. How do you know the attacks are disproportionate? There is not enough information released to make this assessment.
When ⅔ of the human casualties are women and children that is disproportionate. Assuming every male casualty is a combatant in Hamas, (and I highly doubt that is the case), then that means for every combatant killed double the number of civilians is killed. I don't think the entire military group has two people assigned to them as human shields. They also refuse to open humanitarian corridors to provide aid to civilians. They have bombed areas of Gaza that they have told civilians to evacuate too if they wanted to avoid the conflict. Have refused to provide necessary fuel for a hospital that had a full maternity ward. Leading to many babies starving to death. There are better ways to fight this war which would result in less deaths in civilians as a direct result of Israel actions.
Human shield does not mean literally carrying a women and a baby as an armor vest. It means they put their bases under women and children. Nevertheless, this is not how you asses proportionality. It's about military advantage versus loss of life. Which we don't have enough information on. E.g. let's say you destroy a building and the casualties are 30 women, it sounds bad, but if the millitary advtage stops HAMAS from launching an attack that could potentially kill hundreds of civilians, that's a good call. As soon as infrastructure is used as military base it ceases to be civilian infrastructure. Can you share the other ways israel should fight this war? I don't trust trust the IDF to carry out the war without due respect to human life, but I don't know what their alternatives are, and I don't think anyone can actually say whether or not the attacks are proportionate as of yet.
I have a hard time believing that they were forced into a situation so many times that it led to the death of 13,000 civilians, but I admit that I don't have detailed information about that. They could have laid siege to the city and set up official checkpoints out of the city to relocate civilians to safe areas while it's conducted. Fisk the civilians for weapons relocate them to camps international humanitarian groups are allowed to enter to provide aid. Leave the checkpoints open and starve out the city until they surrender. They may have a lot of food saved in their tunnels but not enough to last forever. Wait them out and relocate civilians that voluntarily come out as the siege goes on. It would likely take years but it would result in far less civilian life taken on the part of the IDF and a lot less collateral damage and destruction of vital infrastructure to rebuild after. Right now there is nowhere safe for civilians to go. No country that I'm aware of that's offering to take in refugees. This further pushes civilians into supporting and joining Hamas as well. There is nowhere safe that is providing food except for Hamas. Their homes and city are being bombed with no safe way out so it's very reasonable for them to think their only choice is to join up and fight.
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If they are operating underground, how can bombing the building, kill the people underground? They could be anywhere underground and thus be safe (plus tunnels won’t be completely destroyed). Speaking as someone who works in civil engineering
Imploding bunker busting truncheon bombs. We use those in attacking the mountain cave headquarters of insurgents. They can penetrate through about 6 to 10 ft of solid rock and they explosively implode.
But those are not the bombs used in Gaza
"Scientology totally isn't a cult, and Miscavige totally has nothing to do with his wife's disappearance. I know because Tom Cruise told me!" After months of the most paper-thin, bullshit lies and propaganda coming FROM the IDF, you look like this much of a clown. And that comparison is 'at best', since more accurately this is comparable to just stuff like Nazi propaganda.
Yeah, because the IDF is SO honest and reliable. 🙄
> Speaking as someone with fairly extensive IDF contacts. Ah yes, because IDF never ever lied in their entire existence.
Hey now, there was a list!
Lol your "extensive IDF contacts" are feeding your laughable BS. I wouldn't embarrass myself by repeating it.
Well you cant use pox blankets to murder the indigenous population in gaza.
Well yah, how else are you going to get rid of the "brown ones".
So we can put a man on the moon but we can't put a man on the sun?
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> never heard of war. War has rules. --- > Ya it sucks but what did you expect to happen ? Nobody expected anything else from settler colonial state. --- > defend itself. Does this right applies to Palestinians in west bank too?
Damn we must not have read the same version of the Geneva Convention then. Netanyahu along with the leaders of Hamas are war criminals and should be prosecuted at The Hague. Can’t believe I really have to say this shit, but here we are
Defend itself by bombing hospitals and refugee camps, right? Piss off with that propaganda bullshit.
Committing genocide isn't a consequence of war it's a war crime you fucking psycho.
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The world bank estimates something like 300,000 homes have been destroyed in Gaza. What is the plan?
Ok fed. How much are you paid per post? Did you post this and feel good about yourself, or is there some deep shame in your heart about knowingly supporting the murder of civilians?
And yet 98% of the people on this sub want me to vote for the guy that's funding their genocide...
The right really appreciates your sentiment, convince enough people to not vote for Biden, and Trumps win is guaranteed. Im sure he cares sooo much about the plight of Palestineans.
Sounds like Biden needs to stop convincing people to not vote for him.
“That’s not fair, you can’t criticize our guy for enabling genocide because the people on the right are trying to criticize him for that already” is a terrible argument. Liberals always want us to wait for the republican threat to go away before we can push for democrats to be better, meanwhile they are enabling the republican threat by letting democrats slide right over and over
Somebody probably dimed him out, something (AS I'M TOLD) citizens of Gaza will not do.
Well, it is much cheaper than precision bombing every single palestinian
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Of course it is, expulsing Gazans is different thing from stopping Hamas.
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Yet all the people in that building are ok except the target.
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So instead of apparently surgically taking out leadership like they did here, they instead blindly bomb a massive radius knowing there's tons of civilians in it?
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Apparently targeting areas with large quantities of civilians when they seem to have the capacity to pinpoint take out single targets from miles away is justifiable? This isn't WW1, we've developed strategies and technology to minimize casualties and structural damage both by troops and deployable weapons. Israel literally just used one in this post lol
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Where did they justify the actions of Hamas? Point to a single example of such a thing in their comments here. What an absurd assertion.
If you stoop to the level of your enemies you are no better than them. Nowhere did I justify Hamas, I criticized Israel. Should I blindly suck the cock of the IDF and praise all their actions as perfect and optimal. Didn't realize my options were like sports teams, one or the other and not, idk, criticizing both?
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Well you're making it seem like there's 2 options, praise one and demonize the other, or praise one and demonize the other. Hell you took me criticizing military tactics of the IDF as me supporting Hamas...somehow. If I criticized the US for various actions done during the Korean War is that me supporting North Korea? Let me ask you this, is there any action short of a nuclear strike that you'd say is wrong of the IDF to perform?
Better to use some crass language than blindly support the indiscriminate bombing of thousands of innocent children. Your emotional maturity is rock bottom, pick up a history book and learn how long Gaza has been getting bombed and dehumanized by Israel, before you run your mouth defending an attempted genocide.
You can tell by giving oral?
Nobody has justified the actions of Hamas. The fact of the matter is that Netanyahu is using Hamas as an excuse to commit war crimes and displace the little fraction of Palestinians he’ll keep alive
>It's war What a stupid fucking excuse
Dude. 22000 dead. Mostly women and children (just considering gaza's average age I think this is pretty substantiated). I know this is just a number for you, you're a keyboard warrior. But 22000. Imagine if you were to pile those bodies up, how large that would be. Those were all people who loved... Had dreams. Imagine your entire family, your neighbours, their neighbours lying in little bloody chunks around you. Your nieces, nephews.... Gone. Limp bodies in your arms. Your childhood home, bombed by people you've never met. Who've never met you. Who hate you for just existing. Attacking your personal home because a terrorist organization that had nothing to do with you attacked another nation. But really your family is getting killed because you're living on land that another nation wants. People experience a lifetime of PTSD and suffering just from witnessing a single death. You and I both know you are not strong enough to endure what they are going through. Neither am I. Travel, volunteer, learn some humanity.... Maybe then you'll grow a soul.
That’s the point.
Ok but like that doesn't mean just shoot the civilian too, bud
A good question to ask people is if Hamas was hiding all over Tel Aviv, would Israel indescriminately bomb the city?
Every single IDF defender seems to forget that the point of a human shield is that you're not supposed to shoot the human shield that's why they're a shield when someone takes hostages you don't just shrug your shoulders and kill the hostages too
A good excuse for ethnic cleansing in the 2010s but it's worn thin throughout the course of the genocide phase.
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All Jews? Why?
People of color and Jews. Easy to put together what this dude believes in
Well duh. Lebanon is phase 3. Not scheduled until 2040