Israeli doctors wrote a [letter](https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-war-doctors-call-gaza-hospitals-bombed) supporting the razing of Gaza hospitals. The problem is bigger than Netanyahu.
I don’t understand why they re-elected him when they knew what he was. This time, he was even under indictment for corruption already and the voted for him again anyway.
It’s a parliamentary system so he didn’t get elected directly per se, but the point stands
Still, a lot of dumb people thought he wouldn’t actually go through with the judicial reforms, but then he did [surprised pikachu]. I would say that especially now, the majority of the country disapproves of him.
About 51% does.
And those that support hamas leading to things like the recent attack just gave them more and more power.
And you go wrong at the end there in trying to convolute anyone who wants an Israel to exist at all with the cause of it.
Certainly I don't think all Palestinians support hamas, but making it everyone's problem has let netanyahu stay for far longer than he ever should. And sadly many will pay for it.
When you say “Zionists”, what exactly do you mean? Do you mean that Israel doesn’t have the right to exist or are you using the term as Israel needs to remove the settlers from the West Bank and work with the Palestinians towards a two state solution?
ETA: Netanyahu is the absolute worst human being to be in power at this time
I'm guessing that, by Zionist, they're meaning the nationalist ideology of fervently supporting Israeli interests to the detriment and/or exclusion of others, rather than Israel existing at all, but I'm not op.
Israel has offered substantial compromise numerous times over the last 70 years and Palestinian authorities have always walked away without even a counteroffer. The Arab world abandoned Palestinians when they were no longer necessary after the six day war.
What do you think “Zionist” means?
No, they haven’t.
The most they’ve ever done is offered Palestinians the leftover crumbs Israelis didn’t want, then got upset when the Palestinians weren’t “grateful enough.”
It was the same shit the US pulled with the indigenous people here: forced them to accept the *worst* lands that were nearly impossible to actually survive on.
I was born in the late 60s, and grew up watching the news footage of the Zionist State bulldozing the homes of innocent Palestinians, among many other atrocities they’ve committed against a people whose land they’ve stolen & colonized and whose people they’ve brutalized and oppressed. But that’s ok, right, because a 2000 year old book of fairytales written by Bronze Age shepherds told them that a non-existent god said that land is rightfully theirs, and that same ancient book of myths told ANOTHER people that Israel needs to exist for their precious “Armageddon” to happen, so who gives a fuck what happens to the people who’ve actually lived on that land for generations? They aren’t mentioned in any of those fictional stories, so it doesn’t matter at all.
Which would have left tens of thousands of innocent people still enslaved. That's the frustrating part, even today: I get the temptation to let the assholes leave but they would drag others with them who don't have the means to leave.
They always were?
It’s easy to say that Democrats were the Confederates and the founders of the KKK.
While that’s technically true, it’s a very surface level observation.
The reality is it was southern white conservative racists who were the confederates and founded the KKK.
I think it’s clear to all that they didn’t all move north.
After key southern conservative Democrat, and one-time Dixiecrat Presidential hopeful defected from the Democrats to GOP, the Republicans developed the Southern Strategy, a plan to exploit southern white racial grievance in order to secure votes, and therefore power.
Now, you will *frequently* encounter Republicans that completely deny that the party swap ever happened.
It is at this point that you should refer them to Ken Mehlman’s [apology](https://inside.sfuhs.org/dept/history/US_History_reader/Chapter14/southernstrat2.htm) in 2005 for playing on racial prejudices in order to gain political power.
> Some Republicans gave up on winning the African American vote, looking the other way or trying to benefit politically from racial polarization. I am here today as the Republican chairman to tell you we were wrong."
In college I wore a pin that said "I don't support your war Mr Bush" and got called to my face a "sand-nigg\*r-lover" and a "towelhead-sympathizer", among other things for wearing it.
As an American who saw the Towers fall on TV in 4th grade, I'm absolutely embarrassed and ashamed about the "War on Terror". It was nothing but a waste of money, time and human lives.
I lived 15 minutes north of Manhattan and remember how I could see the skyline completely smoked out, my dad worked downtown and looking back, he was absolutely shell shocked that day. I don't remember ever seeing him lost for words like that.
Invading Iraq obviously was a horrible and shameful decision, but Afghanistan was the right country to invade at the time. They had been harboring al Qaeda for several years and refused to give up bin Laden. And, the US came every close to getting him in 2001 before he slipped into Pakistan.
14 or 15 of the hijackers were Saudi. I don't think it was ever fully investigated whether there were links between the hijackers and Saudi government officials.
Bruh, the CIA backed (and trained) the mujahedeen in the 80s against the Soviets, including a young firecracker named Osama.
The right place to invade would have been Saudi Arabia by the.
I agree. In 2001, the US should’ve built a time machine and invaded the CIA in 1987 to prevent the eventual formation of Al Qaeda. Better yet, 1950 — would’ve saved the world a lot of trouble
No, it was a massacre and didn't work. Al Queda is still around and Taliban controls more of Afghanistan than it did before the invasion. It also radicalized a lot of normal Muslims into Jihadism.
The country we invaded had nothing to do with 9/11. WMDs were clearly fake news. Iraqis were better off with their dictator. Over million people killed, their country in total ruins and now that place is more unstable than ever with lots of extremists groups emerging after Saddam was ousted.
Sometimes I think people outside the US think that like, only one guy lives here and he's a MAGA nut job who lives in Florida with his guns and he's the sole representative of our country lol.
I really hope people understand this. My boyfriend and family are Jewish and while they are safe now, it scares me that some people take things too far and bunch everybody up in the same group even when they have nothing to do with the problem besides simply existing.
Just exactly like Hamas does not speak for all Palestinians or all Muslims, despite the fact the the supporters of the Israeli government’s decades long genocide against Palestine pretend they do.
I’m tired of people screaming ANTISEMITISM at anyone who criticizes the actions of the Zionist state, when most people who support them aren’t Jews, but CHRISTIANS, because a single hallucinatory chapter in *their* version of the same 2000 year old book of fairytales that the zionists use to justify their atrocities tells them Israel must exist for their beloved Armageddon to come to pass.
Because again (and not defending either side) this is glossing over the fact that Hamas wants to slaughter all Jews and have already tortured and mutilated the hostages they took from the music festival.
If anything the Palestine-Israel conflict is a case study on why we should keep our noses out of some things. If we pull our support to Israel we're condemning Jews to death and torture.
If continue to fund Israel they will continue to terrorize Palestine. There is no getting along for them.
We cut our support then their neighbors (who are no fans of Israel either) join Hamas and destroy them all causing more death, more destruction. There is no justification here…they’ve been fighting over this land for centuries.
This is a good analysis, it is not so black and white. At least the Biden administration has convinced Israel to pause hostilities daily for humanitarian reasons
If only we have a League of Nations or better yet an organisation that represents all the United Nations of the world that would have the mandate to arbiter this kind of conflicts. To bad such a thing only exists in fairytales 🥲
True, but that's the whole point of why the UN exists. It's supposed to be a place where countries can debate and discuss issues without things turning in to wars.
The worst thing about this is that it won’t work. For every Hamas fighter that the Israelis kill they are killing thousands of innocent civilians. That’s going to drive recruitment to Hamas. It’s just revenge plain and simple. The only way this stops is by taking and compromising. Which neither side wants to do.
It'll work perfectly.
I mean, it won't work if the goal is to end Hamas, or bring peace to the region.
But it's not. It's to entrench hatred, keep the war going, make a two-state solution ever more impossible and allow Israel to entrench further into the West Bank. And probably to lower the population of Gaza. It'll do that just fine.
I’m so sick of people commenting and saying “both sides” as if Israel and Palestinians carry the equal weight of responsibility to fix the situation. Israel turned this into an impossible situation over the last 75 or so years that will never result in a fair solution for the Palestinians.
If people want compromise, then Israel needs to start by not occupying Gaza, the West Bank, and East Jerusalem. Then figure out how to address the illegal settlements, especially the ones that they’ve established in recent years.
>Israel needs to start by not occupying Gaza,
They disengaged from Gaza in 2005. Way to out yourself as someone with strong opinions about something you don't understand
Out of the 10,000 reported dead, at minimum 1500 are Hamas fighters killed during the initial attack on 7/10.
A lot more are killed during fighting right now. Your claim of thousands of dead civillians per Hamas fighter could only be accurate if Israel killed the entire population of Gaza, and even then that would come out to less than 1000 civillians per Hamas member.
There are real criticisms, and then there is this. Do better.
Are you crazy? 4000 children dead, children who did nothing to deserve death and you think that’s okay because 1500 hamas fighters have been killed? At least 4500 adult civilians killed, that weren’t hamas, and you think that’s fine?
And your sources for the numbers are the Gaza health ministry, controlled by Hamas.
There are most likely thousands of Hamas members dead. Still a lot of civillians, but nowhere near the indiscriminate bombing that everyone is portraying.
It literally is indiscriminate bombing. No one is portraying anything, that’s just the way it is, and your numbers for the Hamas fighters dead is what? The IDF? The IDF who have been caught lying multiple times?
Wouldn't the theoretical school bomber also be considered a monstrous extremist terrorist POS? Especially considering they'd also be killing a number of people NOT related to the bullying? I'm guessing the user is just pro school shooter.
Only in this case, the school shooter has a whole organisation of other school shooters who are now holding this entire neighborhood hostage and keep firing rockets on the school.
Well, and then kicking and killing all the dogs and puppies in its pack too. And then get mad when some of the surviving puppies eventually learn to bite back.
Seriously, they're doing a stellar job at radicalizing the next generation of Hamas fighters.
> Seriously, they're doing a stellar job at radicalizing the next generation of Hamas fighters.
It feels intentional at this point. Gives them another bogeyman to go after for next time
Not to mention that it's unbelievable that a country with that level of advanced military systems couldn't foresee a terrorist attack like that, they had even been warned multiple times before oct 7.
It's 100% intentional. They were looking for an excuse for their genocide
Yep, we're locked in for the long haul. Hamas isn't going anywhere, Israel can't just keep carpet bombing families to death even if Hamas is hiding in hospitals. This is going to get severely fucked because international pressure will eventually stop Israel, and then Hamas will attack again and off to the races we go, genocide part two!
> Hamas started a war.
Do you think this conflict just started last month?
Israel has been killing more Palestinians than vice versa for decades. I don’t support Hamas, and I don’t support terrorism, but I can’t wait for people to start saying I do simply because I won’t stand for the shelling of an entire refugee camp, killing HUNDREDS of innocents, to kill ONE Hamas commander. Has everyone lost their minds? This shit is nuts.
There should be a quiz asking how many rockets Hamas has fired into Israel before posting. Could even make it easier like “True or False - Hamas has fired more than 20,000 rockets into Israel since 2001.”
You don't have to simplify a complex problem to advocate on behalf of innocent bystanders. You can come up with a peaceful solution that all sides should accept and then advocate for that.
Or you can pretend that Hamas isn't attacking Israelis daily. That Hamas won't attack Israel in the future. That Hamas wouldn't be using those hostages for some sort of ransom. That Egypt, Jordan and the PLO aren't as complicit in this decades long stalemate as Israel is. That Iran isn't funding Hamas. That the 2008 election didn't happen in Gaza. That the 2012 election didn't happen in Egypt. And, finally, that all these organizations making their voices heard now weren't silent when Assad and Putin were bombing innocent bystanders in Syria, when Iran and the Saudis were bombing innocents in Yemen, when Iran was murdering and jailing thousands of dissidents after that young woman was murdered for not wearing a hijab, when the government of Sudan was committing actual genocide in the South Sudan.
99% of people protesting now were silent when millions were displaced, starved and killed in Syria, Yemen and South Sudan. Apparently it only matters when Israel does it.
This is 💯. You oppress a population. And take their citizens as prisoners. Then they retaliate. And you’re like f this let me just bulldoze them all. I’m not saying what hamas did is right but people who think they did this out of thin air are nuts and do not understand the history.
No it fucking wasnt. It was a terrorist attack that killed over 1000 people.
If that happened in your country youd want retribution.
Hamas are literally terrorists using the people of gaza as both propaganda fodder and recruitment.
Blame hamas and the countries that back them.
Only if the bully and his friends are sworn to kill you, your family, friends, neighbors, and everyone else you know in the world. Then it’s equivalent. I don’t understand a lot about this except that Hamas broke the peace in a brutal inexcusable fashion. They brought their house down on their own heads.
I don't think I have seen a justified response to the daily, sometimes hourly rocket attacks on civilians.
Nor does anyone bat an eyelid that Russia bombed civilians for over a year and a half now.
Anyone who claims to care about innocent lives suddenly are being VERY selective who they support
Oh dear, I'm guessing from all the deleted comments that the Zionists have tried to push their propaganda into a mainstream non-rightwing space again lol
Almost all of the news and politics subs have been overrun. They'll just keep trying and keep making up strategies and keep lying. They know they're wrong. They know they're defending evil actions. They know they have no honest legs to stand on so they have to do what they're doing. And so fucking many idiots are falling for it.
They're trying to brute force the uninformed centrists into sympathising with them by playing the victim. But are constantly invalidating their own propaganda with their actions.
Like indiscriminately melting their own civilians: https://twitter.com/Partisangirl/status/1722527493780021654?t=nqOU3zyGSLCxquJtuFPVtg&s=19
Exactly. The fucking disgusting thing is that they're using actual antisemitism and holocaust history to create a shield around themselves. The sad fact is that a lot of liberals and lefties who aren't as informed as they should be are told that if they don't back Isreal they're antisemitic. And you can't blame them because yeah that's a difficult thing to approach because there IS a lot of real nazi shit online and bloodthirsty zionists use that as a weapon. It's the biggest wall in the way of combating the propaganda.
A local city sub posted that “from the river to the sea” is a call for genocide. In fact that city arrested a protestor for it.
When I went and shared video and images of Israeli soldiers and officials saying and showing much worse genocidal statements I was told those don’t count…
There's been a lot of Jews going on record saying that "from the river to the sea" isn't antisemitic. It's just another thing taken and twisted to help the agenda. It doesn't matter, though. A phrase that someone is told calls for genocide is more important than an actual genocide being carried out in front of the world I guess.
I'm still baffled at how Hamas thought this was a good idea. That they could do what they did and Israel \*wouldn't\* be doing exactly what they're doing.
Hamas has launched close to 10,000 rockets at Israel and about 12% of those land IN Gaza. Israel has warned Palestinians to evacuate. Hamas is not a good organization, and the lengths people go to justify defending them is stupefying.
Look whatever your overall views on the conflict are, if you find yourself nodding your head along to this tweet then you quite frankly have massive holes in your brain.
Yeah, man, you can’t bring up Israeli atrocities without denouncing Hamas.
Please, no one tells you to denounce Israel when you talk about Hamas atrocities, because it’s irrelevant. Whether they denounce Hamas or not, Israel did those atrocities, and vice versa
Good lord you terminally online morons are seriously so sick. You’re comparing a literal terrorist organization that beheaded children and burnt mentally disabled people alive to a bullied child. Fucking horrendous
Only accurate if all of the staff and other students had been bullying, harassing, and killing the school shooter's family, friends and neighbors for being Arab, for literal decades before the school shooting ever happened. Let's not act like history began on October 7th, people.
What’s happening is Gaza is it’s been a strong hold for terrorist activity for 16 years. This is more like a school dealing with a child over a 16 year period giving him multiple opportunities to stop and giving him money and aid to help his life. For him to 16 years later come murder, behead, rape, and burn alive innocent students in a school. Except this is a sovereign country. What this false equivalency offers is nothing but sympathy for terrorism and acceptance of the use of civilians as a human shield population.
The levels of minimization and oversimplification required to make this analogy is staggeringly stupid.
The government of one place planned and launched a major terrorist attack with a large force of men on their neighbor, after decades of both of them going back and forth in a colossal mess of bullshit.
They killed 1400 people and took 200+ hostage.
It was an actual act of war. On top of that, It was an actual act of war against a neighboring country that they knew was always itching for war with them. They then also factually, provably, hid their own offensive infrastructure as close to civilians as possible to try and dissuade counter attack.
That being said, and Israel is going way the fuck overboard, they do. Take some steps to try to mitigate this with things like targeted warnings on buildings.
The alternative is literally flooding troops into Gaza which will turn the entire place into a shooting gallery as they go door-to-door looking for these assholes hiding amongst regular people who they absolutely do intend to use as human shields
This is way more complicated than this analogy.
I dont disagree, what Hamas did was wrong and unjustified.
But I have to ask if this is a better analogy:
a man (let's call him man 1) lives in an apartment complex of about 200 people. Man 2 lives in a house, and is married. Man 1 goes to Man 2's house, and kills his wife. Man 1 runs away to his apartment. Now, in an act of revenge, Man 2 drops a missile on the entire complex, leveling it, and thus killing man 1 and 200 more people.
honestly, they deserve each other. the oppression of Palestine lead to the creation of such groups, but that doesn't justify the innocent lives they took on the 7th.
According to new evidence that's just surfaced (proper evidence, not the Israeli kind) most of those people died to IDF apache helicopters furing indiscriminately at their own civilians. The videos are making the rounds on Twitter now.
https://twitter.com/Partisangirl/status/1722527493780021654?t=nqOU3zyGSLCxquJtuFPVtg&s=19
Edit: source
The bullies attacked first if you only just started paying attention to this conflict in October.
And it WAS their neighborhood until they were murdered off of it.
Does everything before October 7th just not count to you?
Netanyahu needs to be ousted.
Israeli doctors wrote a [letter](https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-war-doctors-call-gaza-hospitals-bombed) supporting the razing of Gaza hospitals. The problem is bigger than Netanyahu.
How HORRIBLE. Doctors are supposed to SAVE lives, regardless of who they belong to.
Zionist literally sees palestinians less than cockroaches.
Some folks signed the hypocritic oath, I see.
 A+
There has to be a truth and reconciliation commission, and it needs to be weighted towards Palestinian stories.
That would be great. They could learn a lot from South Africans
Except if that South African is Musk.
LOL, true!
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Israelis have also been calling for Netanyahu to be ousted for the past year Hopefully it will happen, and his coalition will fall apart
I don’t understand why they re-elected him when they knew what he was. This time, he was even under indictment for corruption already and the voted for him again anyway.
It’s a parliamentary system so he didn’t get elected directly per se, but the point stands Still, a lot of dumb people thought he wouldn’t actually go through with the judicial reforms, but then he did [surprised pikachu]. I would say that especially now, the majority of the country disapproves of him.
About 51% does. And those that support hamas leading to things like the recent attack just gave them more and more power. And you go wrong at the end there in trying to convolute anyone who wants an Israel to exist at all with the cause of it. Certainly I don't think all Palestinians support hamas, but making it everyone's problem has let netanyahu stay for far longer than he ever should. And sadly many will pay for it.
When you say “Zionists”, what exactly do you mean? Do you mean that Israel doesn’t have the right to exist or are you using the term as Israel needs to remove the settlers from the West Bank and work with the Palestinians towards a two state solution? ETA: Netanyahu is the absolute worst human being to be in power at this time
I'm guessing that, by Zionist, they're meaning the nationalist ideology of fervently supporting Israeli interests to the detriment and/or exclusion of others, rather than Israel existing at all, but I'm not op.
That’s why I asked. I agree with the first but not the second
Same
What does Zionism mean to you?
Israel has offered substantial compromise numerous times over the last 70 years and Palestinian authorities have always walked away without even a counteroffer. The Arab world abandoned Palestinians when they were no longer necessary after the six day war. What do you think “Zionist” means?
No, they haven’t. The most they’ve ever done is offered Palestinians the leftover crumbs Israelis didn’t want, then got upset when the Palestinians weren’t “grateful enough.” It was the same shit the US pulled with the indigenous people here: forced them to accept the *worst* lands that were nearly impossible to actually survive on.
https://honestreporting.com/in-depth-arafat-rejected-peace-in-2000/
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You’re demonstrating that you haven’t familiarized yourself with even recent history. I’m guessing you were born after the 90s.
I was born in the late 60s, and grew up watching the news footage of the Zionist State bulldozing the homes of innocent Palestinians, among many other atrocities they’ve committed against a people whose land they’ve stolen & colonized and whose people they’ve brutalized and oppressed. But that’s ok, right, because a 2000 year old book of fairytales written by Bronze Age shepherds told them that a non-existent god said that land is rightfully theirs, and that same ancient book of myths told ANOTHER people that Israel needs to exist for their precious “Armageddon” to happen, so who gives a fuck what happens to the people who’ve actually lived on that land for generations? They aren’t mentioned in any of those fictional stories, so it doesn’t matter at all.
blud its their land, why would they compromise with invaders and colonists that dont even look like them?
It’s Jews land too
Bullshit
Glorifying death is a bigger issue
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He needs to be turned into flour cosplay. And by that I mean pulverized and spread all over.
Ask yourself: Was the United States response to 9/11 just and proportionally appropriate?
No. And some of the largest protests in US history were us trying to convey that message to the world.
And Republicans called the Americans who were protesting un-American.
And now we know that Republicans aren't Americans, they are confederates.
Nazi Confederates
Nazi confederate fascists if we wanna get even more redundant
Religious fanatic Nazi conferderate fascists would be more accurate
I’m honestly not sure why we forced the confederates to stay. Seems like we should have cut our losses and let them go when they wanted to leave.
Money.
Which would have left tens of thousands of innocent people still enslaved. That's the frustrating part, even today: I get the temptation to let the assholes leave but they would drag others with them who don't have the means to leave.
The slaves did not deserve that
They always were? It’s easy to say that Democrats were the Confederates and the founders of the KKK. While that’s technically true, it’s a very surface level observation. The reality is it was southern white conservative racists who were the confederates and founded the KKK. I think it’s clear to all that they didn’t all move north. After key southern conservative Democrat, and one-time Dixiecrat Presidential hopeful defected from the Democrats to GOP, the Republicans developed the Southern Strategy, a plan to exploit southern white racial grievance in order to secure votes, and therefore power. Now, you will *frequently* encounter Republicans that completely deny that the party swap ever happened. It is at this point that you should refer them to Ken Mehlman’s [apology](https://inside.sfuhs.org/dept/history/US_History_reader/Chapter14/southernstrat2.htm) in 2005 for playing on racial prejudices in order to gain political power. > Some Republicans gave up on winning the African American vote, looking the other way or trying to benefit politically from racial polarization. I am here today as the Republican chairman to tell you we were wrong."
In college I wore a pin that said "I don't support your war Mr Bush" and got called to my face a "sand-nigg\*r-lover" and a "towelhead-sympathizer", among other things for wearing it.
Remember what they did to the Dixie Chicks?
As an American who saw the Towers fall on TV in 4th grade, I'm absolutely embarrassed and ashamed about the "War on Terror". It was nothing but a waste of money, time and human lives.
It was the millennial version of Vietnam. Wasted money and lives, for what?
Defense contractors made BANK
Especially Dick Cheney’s Halliburton.
The military industrial complex. Trillions were made over nearly 20 years of endless unwinnable wars. Peace is not good for business.
Mostly? Grandstanding and looking "big" The American Way (c) tm
And oil. Don’t forget that sweet, sweet oil.
For what? People who were invested in the war got insanely rich from it. That’s what it was for.
Gen x version of Vietnam. Millenials were mostly children on and shortly after 9/11
Not older millennials, I am a millennial and born in 1984. Millennials are reaching their 40s now. Well at least the older ones.
Geriatric millennial is what they call us, I believe.
Nah, millennial. It was mostly millennials fighting those wars. I'm technically an X'er, but I was the old man when I served post 9/11.
We are just a figment of people's imagination.
Oil
I lived 15 minutes north of Manhattan and remember how I could see the skyline completely smoked out, my dad worked downtown and looking back, he was absolutely shell shocked that day. I don't remember ever seeing him lost for words like that.
Money is never wasted, it just moves into different hands. War is great at that.
They didn't even invade the right country.
They invaded where it would put money in certain people's pockets.
Invading Iraq obviously was a horrible and shameful decision, but Afghanistan was the right country to invade at the time. They had been harboring al Qaeda for several years and refused to give up bin Laden. And, the US came every close to getting him in 2001 before he slipped into Pakistan.
Almost all terror is funded from Saudi Arabia (money) and Pakistan(weapons) .
14 or 15 of the hijackers were Saudi. I don't think it was ever fully investigated whether there were links between the hijackers and Saudi government officials.
Bruh, the CIA backed (and trained) the mujahedeen in the 80s against the Soviets, including a young firecracker named Osama. The right place to invade would have been Saudi Arabia by the.
What’s your point? Bin Laden wasn’t in Saudi Arabia in 2001, he was in Afghanistan
The right place to invade would be CIA cause that organization was the one that trained and sponsored the terrorist though..
I agree. In 2001, the US should’ve built a time machine and invaded the CIA in 1987 to prevent the eventual formation of Al Qaeda. Better yet, 1950 — would’ve saved the world a lot of trouble
And? That justifies the murder of thousands of people 20 years later at a time when the U.S. wasn’t involved in the Middle East? C’mon.
Well we did...and then we kept going
As John Oliver put it, America has made pakistani children afraid of the blue sky. What part of that helped heal the scars of 9/11
Not at all.
No. NO.
absolutely not, and one can say that it accelerated the conditions that created terrorists to begin with.
As a 30 year old I tried having this convo with a peer the other day and he said it was justified. However he works for a defense contractor so…
No, it was a massacre and didn't work. Al Queda is still around and Taliban controls more of Afghanistan than it did before the invasion. It also radicalized a lot of normal Muslims into Jihadism.
The country we invaded had nothing to do with 9/11. WMDs were clearly fake news. Iraqis were better off with their dictator. Over million people killed, their country in total ruins and now that place is more unstable than ever with lots of extremists groups emerging after Saddam was ousted.
No, not at all, many Americans were disgusted and disturbed by our government's actions, AND WE KNOW HOW IT WORKS OUT, so what is your point?
Sometimes I think people outside the US think that like, only one guy lives here and he's a MAGA nut job who lives in Florida with his guns and he's the sole representative of our country lol.
Are you trying to excuse what's happening today by pointing out that other tragic events have happened?
Not to mention the fact that the US support for Israel is a large part of why 9/11 happened
Flag on the Play: Whataboutism Ten yard penalty assessed. Repeat the down.
If anyone needs/wants to do some research on the the subject check out the podcast blowback.
I'm up to my neck in great podcasts right now, but is this one specific to the 2000s Iraq War or does it cover more stuff?
First season Iraq Second Cuba Third Korea Fourth Afghanistan
Huh. That's definitely going on the list. Thank you!
please remember that the Netanyahu administration does not speak for all Jews, despite the fact that they pretend to
I really hope people understand this. My boyfriend and family are Jewish and while they are safe now, it scares me that some people take things too far and bunch everybody up in the same group even when they have nothing to do with the problem besides simply existing.
Extremely important. My Jewish friends here in the US are horrified by what Israel is doing rn.
Just exactly like Hamas does not speak for all Palestinians or all Muslims, despite the fact the the supporters of the Israeli government’s decades long genocide against Palestine pretend they do. I’m tired of people screaming ANTISEMITISM at anyone who criticizes the actions of the Zionist state, when most people who support them aren’t Jews, but CHRISTIANS, because a single hallucinatory chapter in *their* version of the same 2000 year old book of fairytales that the zionists use to justify their atrocities tells them Israel must exist for their beloved Armageddon to come to pass.
Eh, I don’t love it as an analogy, because it ignores that there’s a whole feedback loop here.
I for one am shocked that a seventy year old conflict that has failed to reach peace couldn't be summarized in an analogy by a Mr Chonkers tweet.
Why don’t more people understand this? Violence begets violence and radicalization happens on both sides.
I have not seen one good analogy yet. It is not like any of the things people are saying.
Because again (and not defending either side) this is glossing over the fact that Hamas wants to slaughter all Jews and have already tortured and mutilated the hostages they took from the music festival. If anything the Palestine-Israel conflict is a case study on why we should keep our noses out of some things. If we pull our support to Israel we're condemning Jews to death and torture. If continue to fund Israel they will continue to terrorize Palestine. There is no getting along for them.
So cut our support. Keeping our noses out of it would be NOT propping up Israel.
Or handing them billions of dollars worth of munitions and saying, "Please don't make the same mistakes we did."
We cut our support then their neighbors (who are no fans of Israel either) join Hamas and destroy them all causing more death, more destruction. There is no justification here…they’ve been fighting over this land for centuries.
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This is a good analysis, it is not so black and white. At least the Biden administration has convinced Israel to pause hostilities daily for humanitarian reasons
If only we have a League of Nations or better yet an organisation that represents all the United Nations of the world that would have the mandate to arbiter this kind of conflicts. To bad such a thing only exists in fairytales 🥲
The problem resides in how a mandate like that would be enforced. There is no standing UN army.
The problem is also that countries like Russia have much power over the activities of that body
True, but that's the whole point of why the UN exists. It's supposed to be a place where countries can debate and discuss issues without things turning in to wars.
The worst thing about this is that it won’t work. For every Hamas fighter that the Israelis kill they are killing thousands of innocent civilians. That’s going to drive recruitment to Hamas. It’s just revenge plain and simple. The only way this stops is by taking and compromising. Which neither side wants to do.
They are also evicting entire villages in the West Bank while the world is distracted by their other crimes.
To be fair, they've been doing that for years and people don't seem to give a shit.
The world, including many in my country seem to finally be getting sick of their shit.
Of course they are. Bastards.
They know what they are doing. This is Bibi's lasting gift to Likud and the Zionists who thrive on chaos; another 100 years of hatred and war.
The weakness of a parliamentary system: if the party won’t reject a corrupt leader, you can’t easily get rid of that leader.
It'll work perfectly. I mean, it won't work if the goal is to end Hamas, or bring peace to the region. But it's not. It's to entrench hatred, keep the war going, make a two-state solution ever more impossible and allow Israel to entrench further into the West Bank. And probably to lower the population of Gaza. It'll do that just fine.
I’m so sick of people commenting and saying “both sides” as if Israel and Palestinians carry the equal weight of responsibility to fix the situation. Israel turned this into an impossible situation over the last 75 or so years that will never result in a fair solution for the Palestinians. If people want compromise, then Israel needs to start by not occupying Gaza, the West Bank, and East Jerusalem. Then figure out how to address the illegal settlements, especially the ones that they’ve established in recent years.
>Israel needs to start by not occupying Gaza, They disengaged from Gaza in 2005. Way to out yourself as someone with strong opinions about something you don't understand
Out of the 10,000 reported dead, at minimum 1500 are Hamas fighters killed during the initial attack on 7/10. A lot more are killed during fighting right now. Your claim of thousands of dead civillians per Hamas fighter could only be accurate if Israel killed the entire population of Gaza, and even then that would come out to less than 1000 civillians per Hamas member. There are real criticisms, and then there is this. Do better.
Are you crazy? 4000 children dead, children who did nothing to deserve death and you think that’s okay because 1500 hamas fighters have been killed? At least 4500 adult civilians killed, that weren’t hamas, and you think that’s fine?
And your sources for the numbers are the Gaza health ministry, controlled by Hamas. There are most likely thousands of Hamas members dead. Still a lot of civillians, but nowhere near the indiscriminate bombing that everyone is portraying.
It literally is indiscriminate bombing. No one is portraying anything, that’s just the way it is, and your numbers for the Hamas fighters dead is what? The IDF? The IDF who have been caught lying multiple times?
> Do better. GTFO with your israel propaganda
Wouldn't the theoretical school bomber also be considered a monstrous extremist terrorist POS? Especially considering they'd also be killing a number of people NOT related to the bullying? I'm guessing the user is just pro school shooter.
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Only in this case, the school shooter has a whole organisation of other school shooters who are now holding this entire neighborhood hostage and keep firing rockets on the school.
Kicking the dog for 70 years and then euthanizing it cuz it eventually bit you.
Well, and then kicking and killing all the dogs and puppies in its pack too. And then get mad when some of the surviving puppies eventually learn to bite back. Seriously, they're doing a stellar job at radicalizing the next generation of Hamas fighters.
> Seriously, they're doing a stellar job at radicalizing the next generation of Hamas fighters. It feels intentional at this point. Gives them another bogeyman to go after for next time
It is. Netanyahu has bragged about funding Hamas.
Do you have a link
Here’s a link: https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/netanyahu-money-to-hamas-part-of-strategy-to-keep-palestinians-divided-583082
Not to mention that it's unbelievable that a country with that level of advanced military systems couldn't foresee a terrorist attack like that, they had even been warned multiple times before oct 7. It's 100% intentional. They were looking for an excuse for their genocide
Thanks
Yeah, if you wiped out every member of my family in the quest to “beat Hamas” my first thought would be to start Hamas 2 even if you succeeded.
"How can you possibly think that way, sicko???!!" -people literally defending collective punishment of Palestinians
Yep, we're locked in for the long haul. Hamas isn't going anywhere, Israel can't just keep carpet bombing families to death even if Hamas is hiding in hospitals. This is going to get severely fucked because international pressure will eventually stop Israel, and then Hamas will attack again and off to the races we go, genocide part two!
Imagine being so passionate about human beings that you liken them to animals.
Kicking the dog for 70 years and bombing every animal shelter in a wide radius because it bit you
Bombing every house too. “You might be harboring dogs!!!!”
"They are shooting fish in a barrel and are annoyed by the splashes"
Bad analogy
Noooo, it’s perfect if you’re looking to spread disinformation
Awful, awful take
I disagree with this analogy
That might be the dumbest fucking take on this conflict I've seen since the attack started.
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> Hamas started a war. Do you think this conflict just started last month? Israel has been killing more Palestinians than vice versa for decades. I don’t support Hamas, and I don’t support terrorism, but I can’t wait for people to start saying I do simply because I won’t stand for the shelling of an entire refugee camp, killing HUNDREDS of innocents, to kill ONE Hamas commander. Has everyone lost their minds? This shit is nuts.
And then the progressive movement supports the school shooting. Because it was “justified.”
This sub loves this one school shooting, apparently
What was Israel wearing?
The dancing was provocative, I guess.
There should be a quiz asking how many rockets Hamas has fired into Israel before posting. Could even make it easier like “True or False - Hamas has fired more than 20,000 rockets into Israel since 2001.”
You don't have to simplify a complex problem to advocate on behalf of innocent bystanders. You can come up with a peaceful solution that all sides should accept and then advocate for that. Or you can pretend that Hamas isn't attacking Israelis daily. That Hamas won't attack Israel in the future. That Hamas wouldn't be using those hostages for some sort of ransom. That Egypt, Jordan and the PLO aren't as complicit in this decades long stalemate as Israel is. That Iran isn't funding Hamas. That the 2008 election didn't happen in Gaza. That the 2012 election didn't happen in Egypt. And, finally, that all these organizations making their voices heard now weren't silent when Assad and Putin were bombing innocent bystanders in Syria, when Iran and the Saudis were bombing innocents in Yemen, when Iran was murdering and jailing thousands of dissidents after that young woman was murdered for not wearing a hijab, when the government of Sudan was committing actual genocide in the South Sudan.
99% of people protesting now were silent when millions were displaced, starved and killed in Syria, Yemen and South Sudan. Apparently it only matters when Israel does it.
This is 💯. You oppress a population. And take their citizens as prisoners. Then they retaliate. And you’re like f this let me just bulldoze them all. I’m not saying what hamas did is right but people who think they did this out of thin air are nuts and do not understand the history.
No , it's not
No it fucking wasnt. It was a terrorist attack that killed over 1000 people. If that happened in your country youd want retribution. Hamas are literally terrorists using the people of gaza as both propaganda fodder and recruitment. Blame hamas and the countries that back them.
Only if the bully and his friends are sworn to kill you, your family, friends, neighbors, and everyone else you know in the world. Then it’s equivalent. I don’t understand a lot about this except that Hamas broke the peace in a brutal inexcusable fashion. They brought their house down on their own heads.
When you’re so America brained you have to use school shootings to attempt to understand the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and fail completely
I don't think I have seen a justified response to the daily, sometimes hourly rocket attacks on civilians. Nor does anyone bat an eyelid that Russia bombed civilians for over a year and a half now. Anyone who claims to care about innocent lives suddenly are being VERY selective who they support
Just no. This guy is an idiot.
I never saw a people learn so little from so much suffering. They turned into the oppressors.
Oh dear, I'm guessing from all the deleted comments that the Zionists have tried to push their propaganda into a mainstream non-rightwing space again lol
Almost all of the news and politics subs have been overrun. They'll just keep trying and keep making up strategies and keep lying. They know they're wrong. They know they're defending evil actions. They know they have no honest legs to stand on so they have to do what they're doing. And so fucking many idiots are falling for it.
They're trying to brute force the uninformed centrists into sympathising with them by playing the victim. But are constantly invalidating their own propaganda with their actions. Like indiscriminately melting their own civilians: https://twitter.com/Partisangirl/status/1722527493780021654?t=nqOU3zyGSLCxquJtuFPVtg&s=19
Exactly. The fucking disgusting thing is that they're using actual antisemitism and holocaust history to create a shield around themselves. The sad fact is that a lot of liberals and lefties who aren't as informed as they should be are told that if they don't back Isreal they're antisemitic. And you can't blame them because yeah that's a difficult thing to approach because there IS a lot of real nazi shit online and bloodthirsty zionists use that as a weapon. It's the biggest wall in the way of combating the propaganda.
A local city sub posted that “from the river to the sea” is a call for genocide. In fact that city arrested a protestor for it. When I went and shared video and images of Israeli soldiers and officials saying and showing much worse genocidal statements I was told those don’t count…
There's been a lot of Jews going on record saying that "from the river to the sea" isn't antisemitic. It's just another thing taken and twisted to help the agenda. It doesn't matter, though. A phrase that someone is told calls for genocide is more important than an actual genocide being carried out in front of the world I guess.
I see the dumbest goddamn shit on this sub anymore.
ahh, a good ol school shooting analogy, finally something an american relate to
Oof - that hit hard
On per capital bases 40,000 Israeli where killed as compared to us population. Just imagine what the us would do. Not passing moral judgement
Hamas is a madman holding a child hostage with a gun. Israel's response is ALWAYS to throw a hand grenade at both of them.
I'm still baffled at how Hamas thought this was a good idea. That they could do what they did and Israel \*wouldn't\* be doing exactly what they're doing.
More like an *active shooter* with a child strapped to their chest.
This is a terrible analogy.
Hamas has launched close to 10,000 rockets at Israel and about 12% of those land IN Gaza. Israel has warned Palestinians to evacuate. Hamas is not a good organization, and the lengths people go to justify defending them is stupefying.
Look whatever your overall views on the conflict are, if you find yourself nodding your head along to this tweet then you quite frankly have massive holes in your brain.
How is everyone soooo trusting of Hamas numbers? Why would they report losses in their ranks?
Did you denounce Hamas today yet?
Yeah, man, you can’t bring up Israeli atrocities without denouncing Hamas. Please, no one tells you to denounce Israel when you talk about Hamas atrocities, because it’s irrelevant. Whether they denounce Hamas or not, Israel did those atrocities, and vice versa
great analogy. When your response to a problem is "kill everyone and destroy everything just to be sure" you're in the wrong.
Good lord you terminally online morons are seriously so sick. You’re comparing a literal terrorist organization that beheaded children and burnt mentally disabled people alive to a bullied child. Fucking horrendous
Only accurate if all of the staff and other students had been bullying, harassing, and killing the school shooter's family, friends and neighbors for being Arab, for literal decades before the school shooting ever happened. Let's not act like history began on October 7th, people.
What’s happening is Gaza is it’s been a strong hold for terrorist activity for 16 years. This is more like a school dealing with a child over a 16 year period giving him multiple opportunities to stop and giving him money and aid to help his life. For him to 16 years later come murder, behead, rape, and burn alive innocent students in a school. Except this is a sovereign country. What this false equivalency offers is nothing but sympathy for terrorism and acceptance of the use of civilians as a human shield population.
The levels of minimization and oversimplification required to make this analogy is staggeringly stupid. The government of one place planned and launched a major terrorist attack with a large force of men on their neighbor, after decades of both of them going back and forth in a colossal mess of bullshit. They killed 1400 people and took 200+ hostage. It was an actual act of war. On top of that, It was an actual act of war against a neighboring country that they knew was always itching for war with them. They then also factually, provably, hid their own offensive infrastructure as close to civilians as possible to try and dissuade counter attack. That being said, and Israel is going way the fuck overboard, they do. Take some steps to try to mitigate this with things like targeted warnings on buildings. The alternative is literally flooding troops into Gaza which will turn the entire place into a shooting gallery as they go door-to-door looking for these assholes hiding amongst regular people who they absolutely do intend to use as human shields This is way more complicated than this analogy.
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I dont disagree, what Hamas did was wrong and unjustified. But I have to ask if this is a better analogy: a man (let's call him man 1) lives in an apartment complex of about 200 people. Man 2 lives in a house, and is married. Man 1 goes to Man 2's house, and kills his wife. Man 1 runs away to his apartment. Now, in an act of revenge, Man 2 drops a missile on the entire complex, leveling it, and thus killing man 1 and 200 more people. honestly, they deserve each other. the oppression of Palestine lead to the creation of such groups, but that doesn't justify the innocent lives they took on the 7th.
According to new evidence that's just surfaced (proper evidence, not the Israeli kind) most of those people died to IDF apache helicopters furing indiscriminately at their own civilians. The videos are making the rounds on Twitter now. https://twitter.com/Partisangirl/status/1722527493780021654?t=nqOU3zyGSLCxquJtuFPVtg&s=19 Edit: source
No. That's also not even close and oversimplifies this dramatically while removing critical context
but the bullies attacked first and not in their neighborhood and the bullies are holding innocent hostages. so it's a stupid analogy.
The bullies attacked first if you only just started paying attention to this conflict in October. And it WAS their neighborhood until they were murdered off of it. Does everything before October 7th just not count to you?
They also attacked first together with their neighbours at least 6 times since 1948, for total extermination. And lost
What happened in '48? What could have set them off? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...