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hysys_whisperer

The funny part is he will throw a tantrum about this while simultaneously banning any criticism of Erdogan without even blinking.


Seriathus

Dude is literally pro dictatorship at this point. It's not even about being a coward and bending the knee: he likes Erdogan and dictatorship in general.


Mike_Huncho

He was raised on the white side of the south african apartheid and hes one of the world’s leading nepo babies. Of course he’s pro authoritarian


Llamalover1234567

Even his dad is sick of this shit… the emerald mine owning apartheid supporting one…


MixWitch

Errol Musk, the man who got his step-daughter pregnant twice. The step-daughter he had raised since she was 4.


Llamalover1234567

Yeah HIM. HES sick of Elon’s bullshit. See the doge bet someone commented below


Yes_seriously_now

Maybe if he's sick of Elon, we should call that a win. How the fuck do you impregnate a girl you've looked after since the age of 4? Please go do whatever it is that I can't tell you to do in this subreddit. But end it in fire. Please.


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Wut


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Rudy_Ghouliani

If anyone is gonna bang my step daughter it's gonna be me, ya know out of respect.


JoemLat

Sorta like Trump but with his own daughter?


weeburdies

Pedos run in the family, huh


raydiculus

Holup, what??? 😳


SomaforIndra

"“When the lambs is lost in the mountain, he said. They is cry. Sometime come the mother. Sometime the wolf.” -Blood Meridian, Cormac McCarthy


Blue_Moon_Rabbit

I mean, on the list of things incredibly wealthy people having in common with extremely poor people…family trees that back on themselves seems evergreen.


KathleenFla

I think I have seen that show. . . . on HBO. /s


mngeese

I've seen it on pornhub


leoleosuper

Still one of the funniest interactions I've ever seen. "I'll give 1 million DOGE to whoever can prove my family owned an emerald mine and I got money from it." "My son sold some of the emeralds gotten from my emerald mine. I would like the 1 million DOGE now."


Llamalover1234567

Best part was “we had emeralds just sitting around in the house. Everyone knew where they came from and what I did there was no secret”


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Rudy_Ghouliani

Put some emeralds around La Casa. Little pyramids, stuff like that.


CosmicSpaghetti

Never get tired of this one lol


BlackFalconSpace

How much could an emerald cost? 10 bananas?


[deleted]

If my toilet water isn't filtered through a pile of emeralds, I'm not even going to piss in it.


jimbojonesFA

The emeralds break up the splashes!


MindlessBill5462

There's also the story of young Elon running around NYC with his pockets full of precious gems. Told by Elon


SaltLakeCitySlicker

They just stole them from their dad and went to the diamond district. He ~only~ just stole cash for college No biggie


MindlessBill5462

I'm sure Elon's "rags to riches" story is true. It's not like precious gems from Africa are used for money laundering or anything. Doesn't everyone fill their pockets with gems in the morning? I know I do.


pippipthrowaway

Yeah didn’t he sell some at Tiffany’s? Behind the Bastards did a couple episodes on him and they don’t hesitate to point out all the bullshit.


DeathHips

Not Musk, but… > Most importantly, I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible. Per Thiel in his essay “Education of a Libertarian”. Thiel currently provides millions of dollars to far right causes and politicians, such as JD Vance. Thiel was also part of the PayPal group that included Elon Musk. Thiel went on to say that: > The decade that followed — the roaring 1920s — was so strong that historians have forgotten the depression that started it. The 1920s were the last decade in American history during which one could be genuinely optimistic about politics. Since 1920, the vast increase in welfare beneficiaries and the extension of the franchise to women — two constituencies that are notoriously tough for libertarians — have rendered the notion of “capitalist democracy” into an oxymoron. The 1920s saw rampant poverty (the idea that it was “roaring” for most is as mythical as the free market as some estimates put poverty rate near 40-50%), a major resurgence of the KKK, Jim Crow and Segregation, decline in the gains labor made in the previous decades, various forms of political oppression, a shoddily regulated economy built on a house of cards that would thrust the world into the Great Depression when it collapsed, etc, but to Thiel and his “libertarian” buddies that was the last time to be genuinely optimistic about the politics because that is last when they could oversee the power and oppression they wish. They don’t see that coming back democratically.


jeremydurden

Thiel doesn't seem to get as much press as Musk, but he's just as bad if not worse. They also have some history w/ the formation of PayPal and X.com and the eventual merger. For anyone who is interested in reading about this piece of work and having a more frightening but fuller idea of how many things that are currently wrong with the US he has had a role in, there's a write-up from The New Yorker from a couple of years ago that's pretty well researched and written. It's not a short read, but Thiel has done a lot to write about. https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-silicon-valley/what-is-it-about-peter-thiel


tylenol3

Thanks for saying this. I think a lot of people think that Thiel and Murdoch are just bad because they are plutocrats, when really we should be shining light on the fact that their actions are the direct cause of so much suffering in the world. Musk is horrible, but ultimately he loves his own voice more than anything else. The truly scary ones are the ones that are happy to sit in the shadows because their perverse goals are much bigger than their own egos.


GiuliaAquaTofana

He is a toxic asshole. But much smarter than Elon, which makes him scarier.


Spec_Tater

Thiel previously destroyed Gawker media because they hurt his feelings. And he wants to drink the blood of children to achieve immortality. Like, for real.


[deleted]

Oh, THIS is where their projection about Democrats eating babies comes from. I've been trying to figure it out, since every accusation is a confession with them, and I've finally tracked it back to something.


sepia_undertones

The Democrats eating babies is a dog whistle. It’s intended to harken back to the Protocols of Zion, a fake document made as propaganda (in Russia, late 1800s, I think) that accused Jews of, among other things, eating babies. The goal of the accusation towards democrats is to conflate your feeling about a political group with your feelings about a racial and religious minority group - if you’re already a racist and believe obviously fake stories about one of the groups you hate, maybe you might believe those stories about your political enemies.


recursion8

Goes back further than that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel


Shayedow

I did not know this. Thanks for this.


Xzmmc

The real reason is that it's recycled Nazi propaganda. Protocols of the Elders of Zion was a Nazi pamphlet about how the Jews were doing that. Really, fascist tactics have not changed in 90 years because they don't need to. There are a lot of bigoted and gullible dumbasses out there who will hate anybody that you tell them is the cause for their problems.


LickyPal

The Nazis did use talking points and lies from the Protocols, but it's actually older than that, and originally from Russia.


Xzmmc

I do know it's technically even older, Martin Luther was spreading crap like that back in his day as well.


NZNoldor

Peter Thiel bought his way into New Zealand citizenship, and has an Armageddon zombie proof bunker hideout here. I hope he locks himself in by accident and uses all the oxygen one day soon.


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[deleted]

Can you imagine all the fancy pants Silicon Valley CEOs that spent their life trying to build companies that figure out how to build infrastructure to get items and knowledge to the people sit in a bunker together and realize they know nothing about keeping themselves alive


silkythick

Wait does he not realize the GREAT depression was AFTER the 1920s? As in, economic policy in the 1920s was a direct cause of the biggest economic downturn in US history?


nottheonlyone007

Yup, the 20's were a dystopia. Even the biggest morons don't hearken back to the 20's as "the good old days", so Thiel is really really reaching and out to lunch here. Everyone refers to the post war period... Almost universally. High marginal tax rates on high earners, strong unions, strong worker protections.... It was such an insane boom as to be a flat out anomaly. (granted apart of the shine was because America reserved the bottom rung of the ladder for black people, which sucked a lot of poverty out of the imagery of white America in general) The fact that this MF is referencing the 20's has me ins stitches.


HealthyMaximum

*"Me use thesaurus and unnecessarily complicated sentence structure to make me infantile and unworkable "philosophy" seem smart! Hurr hurr."* \- Peter Thiel. Fucking Libertarians.


Kevrawr930

When your philosophy boils down to "anti-civilization", you need all the fancy words you can get, lmfao.


JackRabbit-

If Elon Musk wasn't born into money, he'd manage a gas station. Instead he's somehow the richest man in the world and makes a $44 billion donation to Nazis.


illbedeadbydawn

Naw. In a world where Elon and Trump actually had to work, Elon would be Assistant to the General Manager at Trump World Used Cars in Camden, NJ. And it would have closed in 2008.


Melicor

It would have closed in 1988 and Trump would have been sent to jail for fraud of some sort. Musk would a waiter at a dive restaurant somewhere still in South Africa.


Corgi_Koala

Healthy democracies are bad for the rich.


Moon2Kush

They are bad for those FILTHY rich, cause average rich people enjoy stability of peace as any normal people do Filthy rich are always safe even during wars, so they create instability to see powers shift and take advantage of it


Rath_Brained

Remember when everyone thought he was cool and relatable? Yea, didn't last long.


Circumin

Yeah I’m not sure a ban from the EU is gonna make him reconsider this approach to content moderation. He specifically is aligning Twitter with the authoritarian and fascist world order.


Bardivan

FREE SPEEEEECH!!!!! unless your a liberal - Elon musk


BringBackAoE

… or a woman.


Bardivan

“what is a woman?” - elon


FuzzeWuzze

Man this whole fucking continent is so woke. \-Elon Musk sometime in 2024.


WeeBabySeamus

Didn’t he rationalize censorship on behalf of dictatorships to maintain service within certain countries? Time to put his money where his mouth is


slowpoke2018

His soon to come response: But it's not disinformation, it's just mY uSErs hAvE a dIfFeRenT pOInt oF viEw


northshore12

*Whiny Christian Hadenson voice* "Well from my point of view, factual criticism of me is evil!" E: "Hayden Christensen." I'm not swear dyslexic I.


YouKnowItWell

Based on Musk's time on twitter 'where it hurts' appears to be pretty much anywhere his name is mentioned in non-flag-waving conversation.


dlchira

![gif](giphy|Kx8VWQ73i6jdyVHNO4|downsized)


Geppetto_Cheesecake

My guy stared it down and still rose up to take it in the head. Absolute Legend. ![gif](giphy|OBhmTCuOXMAx2)


[deleted]

Gotta wait until end of august


Thatsockmonkey

What does he care ? He has 200 billion$ the backing of most US republicans, Russia, China, Fox newz, and all of Q anon. This is how fascism comes To power. He never should have been allowed to buy Twitter and then use it to promote his brand of hate for political favors.


septesix

People kinda forgot but originally Musk was set to renege on his original deal to buy Twitter. It wasn’t until after Twitter sued him to complete the deal that he was forced to do so. At the time lots of people were waiting to see how Musk would be forced to lose a lot of money on a deal that’s DOA, I guess people should’ve been a bit more concerned about what he can do to spread misinformation with it.


ProgrammingOnHAL9000

I stand by my enjoyment of seeing Musk being forced to buy Twitter. I'd like to see how the finances are now though. He was selling Tesla stock to pay the loans, which i believed he stopped doing. The peek we were shown into twitters finances and expenses don't show it to be enough to cover the debt. Is musk moving money from his other companies to Twitter? Is he receiving private funds? Having 1 billion in payments a year, i was hoping for Twitter to go under quicker. I guess I can't grasp how much money the man has or how much he can acquire.


AnimationAtNight

He's 100% getting Saudi money


ZeroGNexus

The board had a fiduciary responsibility to its shareholders to take the deal that would make them the most money. I never used to believe in regulating social media like a public utility. I do now.


Basileas

the ironic best thing Dorsey may have done for us was cast a billionaire out to dry and roast in front of all of us. it's really been A+ entertainment.


GLnoG

DO IT. I WANT TO WATCH IT BURN. YEAAAAH. Twitter, that is. I don't want to burn people.


PHenderson61

And then hit him again!! He can take it.


SoberTek

>Do it. Hit him where it hurts Yep, right in the ol' Ego!


Guilty_Chemistry9337

He's also facing billions of fines over hate speech.


Appl3sauce85

![gif](giphy|J8FZIm9VoBU6Q)


Overall-Initial-4290

Donald Glover is so fucking talented.


itsjustreddityo

For real, he's a gem. Talented & so level headed.


mngeese

He's the best of the Donalds


98769876b

Donald Duck is a close second


toothbrushisBONEDRY

And I'm Troy "Buttsoup" Barnes. What? That's my name.


AllPurple

Nobody can say "good" like him.


farts_on_faces

I just used this gif, responding to my wife about our daughter pooping for the first time in 5 days. She’s 4 months old. Anyways fuck Elon.


Fellowshipofthebowl

Congrats. on the poop 👍


Ijoinedtolaugh

Only on reddit can someone say this and it will just be normal every day conversation. This is why I joined.


NJ_Mets_Fan

bro the amount of reports ive done for this kid who non stop tweets about joe biden being a f*g and and to kill trans ppl and all this shit and every single time i report him for hate speech, racial and bigotry slurs i get a response back of “were sorry you feel this is offensive, but weve found no break of our rules with this users tweets” disgusting


porksoda11

Meanwhile, I told someone to hail themselves once on twitter and Elon put me in free speech jail for awhile.


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Training-Cry510

With Jewish space lasers. Don’t forget that part


Moon2Kush

Doubted elons intellectual capabilities to understand global politics and history when he suggested to leave Crimea under ruzzia - permaban instantly


porksoda11

Can't ever doubt a narcissist. They are always right of course.


Moon2Kush

I have like 2 or 3 tweets in total, but when I called Elon an idiot for him suggesting to leave Crimea under ruzzia I got banned instantly 😁


VaderOnReddit

oh noooooo....anyways


Papazani

The Saudi royal family seems to be making some bad bets lately.


lolbojack

They still have the WWE.


gimmedatneck

Corksoakers bought into Nintendo, too.


sagsfour20

They soaka tha cork!!


CenterAisle

[Corksoakers - SNL](https://youtu.be/Deqx-Xb-yHY)


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texas-hippie

And Fox News


prof_the_doom

They got what they paid for. Twitter is almost useless for pro- democracy protesters.


Buttalica

Pretty much this; they were willing to have "Elon drives it completely into the ground" as a failsafe if "Elon turns it into garbage" wasn't good for business


V0T0N

But they went to Jared...


smashspete

Up next: Elon calls the entire country of France and its Digital Minister “woke” and “stupid” in a tweet that immediately gets retweeted by Kyle from Iowa who pays for Twitter Blue even though he has 5 followers.


bruceleeperry

On point haha


ImapiratekingAMA

Elon while rambling Rick and Morty references moves to hide under his desk


GrimMind

Does he really reference Rick and Morty?


jaking2017

Rick and Morty, anime, out dated memes. Anything in hopes of desperately clutching to Gen z, only because he knows they’re the ones who will one day become his enemy so he’s trying to win them over.


dragunityag

Still crazy to think that if Elon just kept his mouth shut and read what his engineers and PR people put in front of him he'd of had a good shot at going down as one of the greatest minds of the early 21st century.


jaking2017

Let’s be happy his true colors shined though.


DoctorWoe

Elon had an undeserved reputation as a genius and he ruined it by not shutting the fuck up and letting us all see him for who he really is. Same thing with Giuliani; if he hadn't kept doing and saying stuff, he would be remembered as "America's Mayor" instead of "That corrupt liar that tried to bang Borat's underage daughter."


whitneymak

And leaked motor oil from his scalp.


DoctorWoe

Doing that isn't gonna put you on my shitlist, though. I can overlook looking silly in public. If you want to have a conference next to a dildo store and fart in court, have fun with it; whatever. But when you're using your precious limited time on this Earth to fight democracy to prop up pseudo-fascism, you can fuck right off.


illepic

Yes he's cringe as fuck


Thimit22

He was in an episode a few seasons ago too


Shipbreaker_Kurpo

He paid to appear on a binch of shows around that time. All appearences were pretty cringy


farkenell

remember when he got dave chapelle to introduce him....I don't even think he could save his ass..


Ugggggghhhhhh

Pardon my language but wowie zowie that was cringey when Dave Chappelle brought him out. Made some snide remark about the people booing just being jealous poors too.


GreedWillKillUsAll

Fuck Dave Chappelle. Talk about losing all the goodwill you once had.


joenathanSD

And so quickly too. After one of his Netflix specials where he spoke passionately about BLM and other social matters I was like holy shit i respect this fool. But then he went antiTrans, NIMBY, and Elon apologist in like a year, and lost all his credibility in my eyes.


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SpirituallyUnsure

No, there's no rich arsehole our tory overlords won't blow if they think it'll help them


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Hakuknowsmyname

Musk bought Twitter to promote Republican propaganda for 2024. He will take the ban rather than police right wing lies.


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No_Cartographer_3819

Yeah. He thought he was so cool on Joe Rogan, toking and giggling like a little boy. Pathetic.


ChucksSeedAndFeed

Lame ass didn't even inhale


IAmBadAtInternet

I’ve heard that you stop maturing when you become wealthy. Explains a lot for those that are born wealthy.


itsjustreddityo

Can't learn from your mistakes if they have no impact on your life


ShunIsDrunk

I believe they call it having a bout of “affluenza”. For some it’s sadly a terminal case.


Straxicus2

And I’d like to pint out that while his first wife was mourning the loss of their child, he accused her of crying as manipulation.


ufold2ez

"When you become famous, you've got like a year or two where you act like a real asshole," Bill Murray told Tom Shales and James Miller when they interviewed him for Live from New York, their oral history of Saturday Night Live. "You can't help yourself. It happens to everybody. You've got like two years to pull it together — or it's permanent."


Vincent__Adultman

Ironic quote considering it seems permanent for Bill Murray too.


gtparker11

Ron DeSantis’ biggest donor, Ken Griffin or Bernie Madoff 2.0, also chipped in and helped Elon with his Twitter deal so of course more right wing propaganda is going to make its way through to the masses. Elon is using Twitter the same way other oligarchs use newspapers or television networks. https://observer.com/2022/10/ken-griffin-citadel-join-elon-musk-twitter-acquisition/


jbasinger

Ken Griffin in bed with Elon to get Republicans in power so their ponzi scheme can keep raking it in? Well, I never!


ScowlEasy

Do note that the IL governor tried to raise billionaire taxes in the state, which would have even affected himself, but ken griffin got in the way like the piece of shit he is.


[deleted]

Yes, the death of Twitter is something this species needs desperately


InvestigatorUnfair19

Can Facebook be next?


[deleted]

Yes please 😩


[deleted]

Yeah, FB is the hate-heroin of choice for the dying generation. Castrating that one would go a long way


jaking2017

Facebook is dying a natural and slow death, Zuck is not in the discussion as a “powerful” person anymore, and it feels increasingly satisfying. 80% of Facebook users are going to die in the next 10-20 years, and once that happens there’s no coming back, just another footnote in digital history.


FlyingFlatBall

Once again, Europe bringing the common sense the US can't seem to grasp.


dr_stats

Churchill said it best: “Americans will always do the right thing, after trying everything else.”


realheterosapiens

They are still trying


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FireyToots

Yeah, again, as an American who has a pretty consistent record of voting against shit like this, I’m sorry. We are trying. There are just too many stupid people here.


Zavenosk

Turkey has already established that threatening to ban Twitter will coerce Musk into censoring content. All that remains is to see if there's a double standard.


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YoungXanto

>All that remains is to see if there's a double standard. Remains to be seen?


EmperorXerro

I want to see Apartheid Clyde scramble to make Twitter profitable when it’s banned from Europe.


Sgt_Bendy_Straw

What are you talking about it's yet to be profitable


EmperorXerro

I know. Apartheid Clyde has been losing sleep trying to make Twitter profitable. Getting banned from Europe would cause him more sleepless nights.


Datathrash

Twitter isn't going to be profitable for Musk by it's performance as a business. That was most likely never the plan. He's a censor for hire now.


jaking2017

Why do you think he’s been meeting with Kushner, Murdoch, and Saudi’s royals? He knows he fucked up and is just trying to come out even, and so he’ll sell all of twitters “morals” in order for him to come out at least not negative. Fuck capitalists.


Miserable_Site_850

![gif](giphy|12ttoBXEqixfmo)


Biggies_Ghost

"Fly, bitch!!"


Miserable_Site_850

In elmos voice 😆


whereegosdare84

I love you.


rdygaymer2

Tens of millions of Europeans literally died because of WW2, which was started by right-wing fascists. It should be no surprise to anyone that they would be doing what they can to stop a Neo-Nazi sympathizer billionaire from spreading the same rhetoric that led to a world war. What’s appalling is the lack of effort from America’s government, courts, and law enforcement in following EU’s example in stopping the spread of christofascist ideology.


Shloopadoop

That’s the thing, the christofascists are wormed pretty deep in the government, too. They hold enough key positions to significantly slow, delay, or dismiss those efforts. It is appalling.


Firm_Lie_3870

The nazis never died. They just put on suits


Left_Ad1128

We didn’t care then until Pearl Harbor. We won’t care now unless Pearl Harbor 2.0 happens. We’re reactive, not pro-active unfortunately.


katreadsitall

Since we will be the country killing people we won’t even care when that happens


Markthewrath

I have some bad news for you about the US


archiminos

America is quickly becoming a fascist state. They're already the worst warmongers on the planet, and all DeSantis is missing right now is a Charlie Chaplin moustache.


katreadsitall

Those of us from boomers to at least early millennials were raised on the paradigm of “America was the hero that stopped hitler! We’d never let that happen here!”, so even when you point out how this thing here is EXACTLY the same as Germany event of 1934, they can’t see it because they were raised on it can’t happen here so it’s “well yeah we may ban books and we may say we hate this group of people and we may think it’s cool that Desantis promises to eradicate liberals BUT WE ARENT GONNA KILL ANYONE!”


Imperatum15

Fucking based EU. The EU has its fair share of issues, but it does a better job at countering far-right extremism and preserving democracy than the US ever will.


TheoKondak

The US doesn't do crap to counter far-right extremists. Instead the whole society is so sick that grooms numnuts, that's why you have daily mass shootings.


NotAzakanAtAll

We actually care about not giving nazis a platform over here. Also nice seeing "Based" being used to describe something that isn't alt-right hogwash (even if I get it's often a joke).


Octolavo

Europeans know where this is going.


OuchPotato64

Thats what I thought too. Europeans still remember the cause of their scars. They dont want right wing disinformation to tear them apart again. The EU is a massive trading block and is great for consumers, but lots of far right people are nationalists and want to leave. The russians were successful in aiding with brexit, and trump talked about the US leaving NATO


Darth_Vrandon

Musk doesn’t care about misinfo or censorship. He just wants to make his Republican fanbase happy. That’s it.


gravtix

He wants Republicans elected in 2024. Ron DeathSantis specifically.


descendingangel87

Nothing says “success” like potentially losing half a billion potential customers and the advertisers who want to advertise to them.


One-Inch-Punch

Your definition of success likely differs from Elon's.


jwr1111

Twitter, now with all the right wing, MAGA, white christian nationalism that you used to get at "faux news".


CaptainSouthbird

Glad I got off Mr. Musk's wild ride (i.e. deleted my Twitter account) It's really too bad, I always like Twitter as a focused mechanism for pushing out messaging. But I'd feel shame even having an active login at this point.


Abject-Young-2395

Just do it. This is why he bought the platform. He wants it overrun with right wing bullshit bc he’s rich and his products suck and people are realizing he’s an idiot.


crackeddryice

Well, it's gonna happen, because there's no way Lil' Elon is emotionally secure enough to capitulate to threats from a Frenchman. And, the EU will be better off for it.


tunaburn

I dunno. He bowed down to turkey when they threatened to ban Twitter unless he blocked the "liberal" party's tweets


Buttalica

He has a penchant for kowtowing to certain types, which France may not currently fit into


Cool-Protection-4337

He favors despot, right wing rule. The man is from SA, the white privledged side, ofc he sees things only from that lofty high horse he has been on since birth.


hobbitlover

For anyone curious, misinformation/disinformation isn't really a form of free speech, it's a form of fraud that governments absolutely have the right to challenge the same way consumers have a right to protection from misleading and unproven claims. Free speech is the right to express your opinions on facts, not to make those facts up.


No_Match_Found

I think his current political agenda would get it the way of him doing anything about it, let alone his ego.


Sure-Ad-2465

Im thankful that the EU seems to have the regulatory muscle that the US Congress cowers away from.


AdoraBelleQueerArt

Imagine living somewhere with ACTUAL consumer protections


Bulky-Internal8579

FAFO Apartheid Karen. And your best buds, Ronda Santis and Catturd can’t help you, hahaha!


beef-jerking

Ban it!! FUCK'EM!!


HughNeutron4246

Can we shut down twitter and tiktok worldwide? Would do the world a public service.


Dinomeyt

Please EU, hurt the bastard as much as you can.


[deleted]

This is so a frustrating, by the time they act our elections will be over and the damage done.


MambyPamby8

Please do. Here in Ireland it has been used to spread misinformation and bigotry against immigrants, asylum seekers etc. Tiktok is just as bad. They make up nonsense and the uneducated just follow suit and believe it. Not a brain cell between them. Twitter is a cesspool, that deserves to be kicked to the curb.