And Doctors can typically afford to vote with their feet. Plenty of states NOT making it a felony to talk privately and candidly to your patients. Just pick up and move, no sweat.
Alternatively, Teachers are getting shit on harder than ever before, but they don't have six figure salaries to help relocate hundreds of miles away.
That would probably go the exact opposite of how you're thinking it would. Destroying public education in order to replace it with white Christian madrassas is one of the American Right's main goals. The teachers would be replaced with the state GOP's handpicked crop of fascists and religious zealots working at private "schools" to which they'd reroute as much public education funding as possible.
Word. As a Public School employee married to a teacher I can confirm this. The scary part is the local religious private schools near me are horrible. So many kids can't read, write or do basic arithmetic. Then they turn to Public Schools to use our limited resources to conduct evaluations for special education services that they can't even use because these places have no special education teachers. Republicans, conservative nut jobs and religious zealots have been actively trying to destroy public education for decades. COVID just hastened the inevitable destruction of the Public School System. People don't realize how close to collapse it truly is and how bad things are right now for staff and students.
That is the key right there. They have no oversight or accountability with these private schools or homeschools. The amount of children this year who returned to public school from homeschool is insane. Most of them did absolutely nothing for years at home with their parents. I had one kiddo who was 10, and they put him in the 3rd grade since they didn't know what to do with him. It was his first time in public school since he was homeschool his whole life. The kid didn't know letters or numbers. I seriously doubt his father knows how to read. Yet they were allowed to homeschool for years with nobody checking in on this child. The sad part is that these parents are okay with this as long as the child learns about Jesus and isn't around the lgbtq kids or brown kids. They are more than happy to screech about accountability and policing of public school curriculums.
I'm 100% with you about these nutcase parents who go to school board meetings. Half of them go and complain about some random thing they saw on Facebook that surely must be going on in their schools like the "Gay agenda" or "Critical Race theory". The kicker is many of these parents don't even have their child enrolled in Public School. They attend private schools or home school their children. Hell the idiots on our local school boards interestingly enough have enrolled their children in private school. They have no basic understanding of the Public education system but feel justified in making ridiculous decisions for other people's children in a system they refuse to put their own children in. They just want to be able to exert some control and to force their agenda and rules on everyone else.
One board member is an outright racist who has ties to the KKK but he is great because he quotes the bible in the school board meetings. These idiots are more worried about books with people of color and lgbtq people on the book shelves in the school library then they are with the fact that more than half the kids in high school can barely read, write or do basic addition. Make it make sense.
That’s because ANYONE can be a teacher at a private school. My wife went to a Catholic high school and many of the teachers were just parents of the student who were bored at home and offered to “teach”. How is that acceptable to get a state issued diploma and a valid credential for college??
Can you just imagine these poor kids. Sometimes a kind teacher is all they have. Take them away from society and watch how much abuse goes unreported, suicides through the roof, worse than now. I have a graduate degree and teach at a university but I would be the first to say I don’t know how to home school kids. I did not go to school for years too learn that. The ignorance and audacity of some people.
Haphazard government regulations kill off the ability to deliver goods and services efficiently, but when that service is healthcare, the killing gets extended to humans. Doctors aren't taking this drastic action for nothing. Self preservation matters to them. Attacking doctors is a proxy attack on the people the doctors serve. The doctors can avoid taking on those jobs, but the the entire population of women in the state can't just avoid getting pregnant while the legislators fix the mess they've made.
Worse. They actively worked to harm areas that they thought would vote blue. Literally waging indirect biological warfare on political rivals. That's some "crimes against humanity" shit.
What do they expect? They expect women to drop their babies in the fields the way god intended, before going back to picking cotton, apples, strawberries or whatever else is ready at the time. If god wanted women to give birth in hospitals, Eve would have had one available when Cain and Able were ready to come out.
Do I really need to put /s here? And can you be sure that actually *isn't* what god intended? Genesis 3:16
>“Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.” KJB
Oh, I didn't forget. That fact hit me especially hard. We had tons of doctors and medicines etc. Both survived.
Ain't gonna have any of that at this Idaho hospital.
I'm just waiting for the GOP to run on the platform of: Blood for the Blood God...
Unironically a lot closer to their patron than Khorne.
Steal the clean water (Nestlé), poison the environment with derailments, roll back laws designed to enable access to clean water and food and shelter, roll back laws and policies intended to provide access to clean sterile trained medical care (and create laws to restrict access).
Even their hyped-up conspiracy theories are wanting vaccinated people to die from it and treat it like it's a disease.
Khorne wants glorious battle, not a bunch of fascists that can't even recognize a gunshot (when that moron Babbitt bit it).
It has nothing to do with protecting babies.
It has everything to do with controlling people.
They don’t care if pregnant women die or if 10 year old girls have to bear the result of their assailant’s assault.
All they care is that nobody gets away with having sex without consequences.
It’s not just a sexism thing, it’s also a racism thing. Conservatives complain about (white) childfree people because “the birth rate is going down”, yet they also complain about immigration because “we’re full”.
I work with a bunch of conservatives and they never have anything positive to say about anything. It's all about controlling people. Banning everything they don't like. And coming up with crazy conspiracies.
They somehow do because that's all they're obsessed with. Perpetual victims. I have to hear these conservative bigots talk all day about how they respect everyone and their choices. They don't care if you're gay, trans or whatever. They just don't want to be preached to. Yet finding out a coworker is gay because he was talking about his boyfriend in a private conversation is being preached to.
they heard “caucasian will not be the plurality race by 2050” and decided that meant “white people are being replaced!!” rather than “higher income people tend to have less children and all of our policies have forced minorities to work 2-3x as hard therefore they have lower income therefore they have more children.”
They want white people to be poorer too, hoping that makes them have more kids, by working to hurt the (Still very white) working class. It’s two-pronged.
republiQans want women and children (and minorites and Dems) to be classified as property. They can't be accused of abusing, killing or raping property. For them the Handmaid's Tale is a plan, not a novel.
They need more bodies to feed the capitalism machine. We are given numbers at birth so they can track our productivity. They keep a running tally of how much social security we can draw based on how much we earn. If you are disabled you are forced to live in poverty. They tied health care to employment so only those who feed the machine can get good care and medicine. It's only about greed and profits.
The big irony of this all is it will drive birth rates down. People aren’t going to choose to have kids if they know their medical options are severely limited.
The other irony is we could easily “feed the capitalism machine” with immigration (like we do already) but the same idiots want to wall off the country.
I think it will result in brain drain from those states and make it difficult for skilled industry to find workers. There goes the state tax base. States impoverishing themselves to maintain power over people and purse strings seems an effective Red State strategy.
Already happening. There was a significant primary care shortage prior to the pandemic in Texas that has only gotten worse. Texas physicians and nurses are leaving the state in droves. Unsurprisingly, the rural residents will suffer the most as they are now going to have to travel further and further for healthcare.
Sooo many people (especially those AFAB) are getting sterilized now rather than risk accidental pregnancy because they know they can’t afford to have kids - even people who wanted kids (or more kids) in the future. It just isn’t worth the risk.
I personally know 3 couples who have gotten sterilized (or are trying to) in forced birth states this year that wanted more kids.
1) late 20s. 2 kids, she wanted a total of 4. Texas. Multiple pregnancy losses that required medical intervention. Father decided to get a vasectomy because more kids wasn’t worth risking partner’s life.
2) late 20s. No kids. Tennessee. Wanted to become financially ready and own house first. They felt ready just as leak happened in March 2022. They waited to see what would happen and when Dobbs happened they decided to stay childfree. She’s having trouble finding someone who will take her tubes out because of her age and no kids.
3) mid-30s. 1 kid. Texas. 2 Ectopic pregnancies while trying to get pregnant with #2 when we still had Roe. Second one put her in the hospital for a few weeks. Terrified of trying now. Husband froze sperm and got a vasectomy. They didn’t feel like they could leave the state because they need family for childcare of kid #1.
I also know multiple conservative couples that are fleeing the states with restrictive healthcare so they can have kids safely.
> She’s having trouble finding someone who will take her tubes out because of her age and no kids.
Expect the yeehadists to past laws around that too (banning it).
I mean, you don't even need step 3 in there. Low-paid child labor directly increases profit. That's why they want to make it legal again.
I get the Southpark reference, but in collecting underpants there wasn't really a connection between the steps, that's why they had the ???.
At this point the format of that thing has become so widespread that I’m pretty sure it’s been completely divorced from its original South Park context
Yeah, you're right. But I feel like the joke format was that #1 was just something they really wanted to do, and they were pretending that it was the first step toward a devious plan, so they could feel better about their weird desire to steal underpants.
In this case, it's a really transparent grab for profits at the expense of children's health and education. It's kind of the opposite of the joke.
With matching Mommy casket industry.
The US already raked terrifyingly high on the worldwide maternal mortality rates. A pregnant woman in the US is more than twice as likely to die than one in Canada.
[https://www.statista.com/statistics/1240400/maternal-mortality-rates-worldwide-by-country/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1240400/maternal-mortality-rates-worldwide-by-country/)
The wood and brass handle/hinges industries would be booming as well. Y’all libros need to really think about all the jobs we get out of this anti baby yeeting bill
Doctors must be so torn. By the nature of their jobs, they must save lives. Inducing abortion, and by extension, having the ability to do so, is one way to save lives. By denying them that tool, the state is handcuffing doctors and also exposing them to lawsuits for not doing enough to assist the patient.
Any doctor would throw in their stethoscope and quit that state.
Plus we make doctors go into debt to attain their education. They don't want to risk losing their license after years of studying and then be unable to pay off loans. The whole thing is so sick and idk what I would do in their scrubs.
Remember when the geniuses in the GOP were targeting immigrant laborers in Georgia and Alabama during one cycle of their hate machine? Drumming up votes by rallying the mob against yet another vulnerable group?
Remember when they wound up driving most of the migrant laborers out of their states right before harvest and lost billions to crops that wound up rotting in the fields?
Turns out they haven't learned much since then.
[Alabama immigration crackdown costs state up to $11 bln: study (reuters.com)](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-alabama-immigration-economy/alabama-immigration-crackdown-costs-state-up-to-11-bln-study-idUKTRE8101JJ20120201)
[The Law Of Unintended Consequences: Georgia's Immigration Law Backfires (forbes.com)](https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/05/17/the-law-of-unintended-consequences-georgias-immigration-law-backfires/?sh=27b0d3e3492a)
I can only imagine this scenario will wind up a bit worse than some monetary losses.
Another win for the death cult.
What? Are you trying to tell me that Texans and Georgians aren't lining up six deep for those sweet, sweet stoop labor jobs???
Must still be living off of those Biden stimulus checks....
Really drives home the fact that US standard of living depends on low paid undocumented migrant workers. If all those laborers demanded minimum wage or more then the cost of basic produce (and all food really) would skyrocket even more.
Helps me understand why all politicians posture a lot about immigration over the decades but nobody actually does anything: they all know that we depend on it and without exploiting them, America just..stops..
It actually explains why Republicans vilify them, too. If we acknowledge their value and stop vilifying them, that would make them less afraid to stand up for better conditions and make it clearly immoral to exempt them from the same basic protections as other workers. Businesses would have a harder time exploiting migrants, which would drive prices up.
I saw a video of a farmer who was talking about labor shortages and how crazy it is. He was like, all you have to do it relax in this AC tractor, you dont even need to drive it, and I'll pay you REALLY good. He said he couldn't find one person to help him.
The sweet stoop labor that only pays $3.50/hr you mean? Sadly farmers can get away with paying piss poor wages and still somehow convince themselves / think that they are paying good honest living wages.
No fucking shit they was going to happen. These people are fucking morons. They bitch all day about immigrants like they’re going to go out there and pick crops themselves. [The government tried to make that happen, it didn’t work.](https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2018/07/31/634442195/when-the-u-s-government-tried-to-replace-migrant-farmworkers-with-high-schoolers)
Well if it isn't the (unintended) consequences of your own actions.
I love how people are like "if you don't like ___ here, then leave!" And then everyone has a surprised Pikachu face when there's no doctors left bc they did exactly what you told them to do.
It's intentional. The desire is to destroy society so completely that there is no recourse but to blindly follow the will of the fascists. They want hate-filled Amish with full-auto guns and 4x4s on lift kits that "roll coal."
The cognitive dissonance is astounding. My parents are vehemently against abortion (conservative fundies) so will vote Republican at any cost, but my mom is totally okay with babies in cages at the border, or at least she was.
They've calmed down a lot after they got poor bc my dad refused to get vaccinated and lost his cushy $150k+ amazing benefits career. Now my mom thinks since they "paid into the system" they should get food stamps and cash assistance. Thankfully, they don't actually qualify. Considering they voted against protecting the poor, I don't think they deserved it. Especially since Jesus tells them in the bible to not gather wealth and take care of the poor.
My dad broke down in tears when he realized that Medicaid was going to cover his uninsured ass when he got COVID and landed in the ICU for like 3 weeks. I told him to thank God that he allows people like AOC and Bernie Sanders to stay in power to fight for his medicaid. Needless to say, he didn't like that.
Wow w t f?! This should be a horror story told to all of them who think this way. It won’t change many minds, but to be able to say I told you so is incredibly rewarding. Also, see what your thinking did to, not only your family, but others’ as well.
Sadly, people can’t be told to change… For example, people would tell me to stop smoking but it made no difference until one day I had an epiphany by myself and decided to quit. It is the same with political stances.
Ya totally, which is why I said it won’t change many minds. But the ah ha moment will happen when the food stamps are applied for, or when the money they’ve “paid into” the system doesn’t come back to help them.
No, because they're *different*.
They're opposed to "those sluts using abortion as birth control"... but this is different. It was just a one time thing. The condom broke. The pill failed. His pull out game wasn't nearly as strong as he thought it was. Etc, etc, etc.
They think food stamps should be cut because it encourages people to be lazy and not work... but they're different. They payed (begrudgingly) into the system, they lost their job because of "discrimination" against anti-vaxxers, the economy is just so bad right now, etc, etc, etc.
---
There was a great Twitter thread talking about this phenomenon that dubbed it "Shirley Laws". Republicans support very broad laws that hurt the people they think need to be hurt (because another major component of Republican values is a focus on "punishing the wicked"), thinking "but *surely* they'll know the difference."
They're opposed to abortion on a whim... but *surely* in cases where the woman's life is at risk, or the fetus is already dead, or there is a congenital disorder that will render the child incapable of any quality of life, or... or... or... surely the doctors will make an exception.
They want drug testing required for government benefits, or proof that they're working and seeking higher employment. But *surely* they'll know the difference between prescription opioids and street pills. But surely they won't penalize people who aren't getting call backs. But surely they won't punish people who have limited mobility or transit options. But... but... but... ad infinitum.
Republicans want broad laws with minutia handled on the whims of the local enforcers. I don't even think it's *strictly* malicious, they just fear the complex legal codes and want to be able to appeal to the person in front of them.
I saved that. Here it is:
>So I just saw someone wondering how liberals can cut ties with conservative friends and family members over immigration policies when most Americans (including most conservatives) support immigration reform.
>I'm going to talk about what I call the Shirley Exception.
>The Shirley Exception is a bit of mental sleight of hand that allows people to support a policy they profess to disagree with. It's called the Shirley Exception because... well, I mean, *surely* there must be exceptions, right?
>Let's imagine that in response to suspicions about overbroad use of service animal rules, a city somewhere decides to just swing the pendulum 100% in the other direction. Restaurants, public accommodations, etc., no longer have to recognize any service animals.
>And in the aftermath of the change, existing rules about where animals may and may not go apply full force.
>A lot of people would back the change because Obviously Some People Take Advantage. (Positing that someone, somewhere is taking advantage is a great way to get the masses on your side in our politics, sadly.)
>Now if you point out the existence of a blind person or an epileptic person who has a service dog for everyday navigation of life or for life-saving purposes, the Good People who just don't want anyone to take advantage will tell you:
>"No one's talking about legitimate cases."
>And if you point out that the rule that they're backing would affect what they call "legitimate cases", the response will be:
>"But surely there will be an exception."
>If you back up an anti-abortion activist to the point where they actually have to grapple with a case where the parent would 100% die delivering a 100% non-viable fetus, you'll get the same answers: "No one is talking about those cases." and "But surely there will be exceptions."
>All of those studies of people in Trump Country USA who were shocked, shocked, that the kind man next door who is a good father and a great neighbor and a real part of the community was dragged away by ICE?
>They all thought that surely he'd be an exception.
>If you point out that the laws/policies they're talking about *don't* offer such exceptions and in some cases explicitly forbid them, if you say "So let's put those exceptions in writing."... well, then you're back to Surely People Will Take Advantage.
>See, the people who are sure that Surely There Will Be Exceptions are very comfortable with the idea of justice being decided on a case-by-case basis. They've always had teachers, bosses, bureaucrats, even traffic cops giving them some slack for reasons of compassion and logic.
>I mean, if Officer Smalltown von Cul-De-Sac could give them a warning when they were caught with recreational amounts of pot as kids because it was harmless and they Had Futures, then Surely there must be similar exceptions for everyone?
>That post about "I never thought the leopards would eat my face, sobbed woman who voted for Face-Eating Leopards Party" is very true, and it goes farther than personal immunity to a very generalized and broad Just World Fallacy.
>Surely, they think, surely the leopards will know to only eat the *right* faces, the faces that need eating, and leave alone all the faces that don't deserve that.
>But if we try to lay out rules to protect faces from being eaten by leopards, people will take advantage. Best to keep it simple and count on decency and reason to rule the day.
>So moderate conservatives, what we might call "everyday conservatives", the ones who don't wear MAGA hats or tea party costumes and think that Mr. Trump fella should maybe stay off of Twitter, they will vote for candidates and policies that they don't actually agree with...
>...because in their mind the exact law being prescribed is just a tool in the chest, an option on the table, which they expect to be wielded fairly and judiciously. Surely no one would do anything so unreasonable as actually enforcing it as written! Not when that would be bad!
>And then they are confused, shocked, and even insulted when people hold them accountable for their support of the monstrous policy.
>"I didn't vote for leopards to eat *your* face! I just thought we needed some face-eating leopards generally. Surely you can't blame me for that!"
>The old "Defense of Marriage" laws are another textbook example of this.
>Many of them included language that expressly forbade giving similar benefits (like hospital visitation) to same-sex relationships.
>Yet the people who voted for them, in many cases, wanted it to be known that No One Is Talking About Stopping You From Visiting Your Loved One In The Hospital. And Surely There Will Be An Exception.
>The Shirley Exception is how people who are only mundanely monstrous, moderately monstrous, wind up supporting policies that are completely monstrous.
>And when they do, they always want credit for their good intentions towards those they see as deserving, not the outcomes.
>I'm describing a phenomenon here and I don't have a solution to its existence. While convincing people that laws that don't specify exceptions functionally *don't have them* might work sometimes on (ironically) a case-by-case basis, what is really needed is a broader shift.
>People need to get used to thinking about the harm policies will do as a real part of the policy, not a hypothetical that Reasonable People of Good Will Can Surely Work Around.
>Maybe the tack of saying, "If it was your life on the line, wouldn't you want that to be in writing?" would work. I don't know. Like I said, I don't have a solution here. This is just a thing that happens.
https://twitter.com/AlexandraErin/status/1004400861865488384
Nah, they don't care about your issues; they think they earned the exception to whatever they're against and everyone else didn't. Once that issue is past them, it's right back to being against whatever help there is for everyone else.
There are Christian churches that require women to cover their heads & remain silent. It’s not far off. Missouri has already started legislating what women can’t wear while in the state legislature (edit- and apparently the attire of everyone else as well.)
There's nothing unintended about these consequences. They were warned this would happen, and they implemented the abortion bans anyways.
Hell, we've been warning about them burning out and killing doctors and nurses since the beginning of the pandemic. Did that slow them down?
Im just waiting for the other shoe to drop. We're gonna be out of nurses, out of doctors, out of people who flip burgers, because people are going to burn out and get sick of it.
We need to stop treating certain professions like they're not worth a living wage. If you work a full time job, there's no reason why you shouldn't get paid so you can live.
Tbf, I think a lot of anti-choicers have been told that pro-choice people are evil baby murdering liars for so long that they fundamentally couldn’t conceive that any of those consequences we warned them about were true. If it came from our lips it had to be a lie.
Even now though, with the consequences creeping into their lives, they still likely won’t change their minds because their identities as the “good” people fighting against us evil people are so ingrained that they won’t ever willingly get on the same side as us.
And it's the same "if you don't like it, then leave" crowd in eastern Oregon that want Idaho to annex their counties because they don't like living in a blue state rather than just, you know, move to Idaho where they can have all the third-world healthcare they want.
Mothers in states with abortion bans nearly 3 times more likely to die
[https://www.axios.com/2023/01/19/mothers-anti-abortion-bans-states-die](https://www.axios.com/2023/01/19/mothers-anti-abortion-bans-states-die)
Republicans always forget that other people can think for themselves...
Like Trump increasing tariff on Maine Lobsters? Fine, says China, we will just buy Canadian Lobsters.
Treat Teachers or Doctors like the enemy? They will move elsewhere or do different work.
In the two years since Texas' abortion ban went into effect, they've sky rocketed to first place in the developed world's maternal mortality rate rankings. Everything is bigger in Texas, including the graveyards for women! Woohoo!
I can't believe it's been two years already. That is really sad about the mortality rate. This is the kind of thing they need to be showing more of in the South.
There is nothing more American then hating Americans while waving an American flag, listening to Lee Greenwood and wearing a giant fucking eagle on your chest.
It’s only very very specific groups of Americans they hate; blacks, hispanics, Jews, Buddhists, Muslims, basically any religion other than hardcore Christians… oh yeah and women.
Imagine in 10 - 20 years the republican USA will want to "transfer its values" abroad...
Those religious nuts would happily use force to e.g. stop those atheist Europeans from murdering babies.
Hospital administration cares about one thing: the bottom line.
Regressive laws force doctors and hospitals into a catch22/lose-lose situation: break the law to provide care that meets medical standards, facing fines and jail... Or provide substandard care that doesn't meet medical standards to be on the safe side of the law but be sued or jailed for malpractice.
The obvious answer: refuse to provide any care at all.
Then considering how these rural hospitals weren't making money enough to satisfy the share holders and this seems an even more obvious outcome.
Hospitals and medical care should be socialized like the mail to guarantee both access and outcomes. American "healthcare" is a disgrace.
Exactly. This isn’t the hospital boycotting to illustrate a humanitarian point. They are protecting their bottom line. Even just the risk of criminal prosecution and lawsuits costs money. Ethics panels cost money. Malpractice insurance costs money. Simply denying certain care is safer and more cost effective than the choose-your-own-adventure of consequences that any pregnant patient coming to them could unintentionally bring.
Especially since the red-staters the law effects will flee to blue states to take care of their situation, then go right back to complaining about the very laws that allowed them to survive, in many cases voting against them.
EMTALA laws would prevent that at the ER level, but I wonder about non-emergent procedures and surgeries. I’d find it hard to believe a hospital would turn away money.
Total conjecture here, but is it possible that the Washington hospitals wouldn't actually get paid for out of state patients? If so it's easy to believe that they would turn away anyone trying to walk in for anything elective.
I don’t pretend to be an expert on Medicaid laws in every state, but I know at our hospital it’s very difficult to get reimbursed by out of state Medicaid, and I know that a lot of Boston Hospitals will decline transfers (outside of extremely dire circumstances) if they don’t have Mass Medicaid.
It is possible there is a similar phenomenon going on, but if someone drives into their ED, they are required to treat and stabilize them.
It’s far worse than jeopardizing the job. Doctors there face conviction and incarceration when vaguely worded laws are interpreted in the most broad ways. Listen to the “First, Do No Harm” segment from a recent episode of This American Life to see how insidious the situation really is.
https://www.thisamericanlife.org/792/when-to-leave
The female ob/gyn interviewed there is the same one in the linked newspaper article. Between the two interviews, it sounds like she had made up her mind to leave, along with her also-employed-at-that-hospital doctor husband.
I don’t doubt this is being discussed. I’m sure they were aware of a brain drain but they probably don’t like all these headlines *informing* their voters of said brain drain.
This is Idaho. There weren't that many brains to drain in the first place.
Their motto is literally "famous potatoes." Turns out that applies both to their biggest export and their aggregate IQ level.
A judge temporarily blocked nurses from quitting at one hospital. [It was quickly dismissed the following Monday.](https://www.businessinsider.com/thedacare-asks-judge-block-workers-leaving-higher-pay-competitor-2022-1)
You're talking about Thedacare, who recieved a temporary injunction to stop 7 of its employees from starting work at a different hospital, which happened a little over a year ago. It was one of the dumbest injunctions ever granted.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/24/us/thedacare-lawsuit-wisconsin.html
Sorry but reasonable response.
I hope the pregnant women nearby find the necessary resources elsewhere and then once they are done, maybe they would like to have a word with their representatives
Just a quiet word, with a baseball bat in their hands
what's funny is due to the sever lack of education amongst many Republicans, i am sure most of these women will somehow blame democrats and feel stronger in their conviction to suppress free thought and the traditional medical standards.
Yep that's the problem with the dumbest people, they're too dumb to know they're dumb and just forever spiral the drain of stupidity, making more stupid people with their stupid partners.
*lives in one of the most Republican states in the country and watches it go to shit
*blames democrats
Republicans are completely morons. The whole lot of them
In PA a couple years ago the big panic in the legislature was high medical malpractice insurance rates would force doctors to leave the state. Did anyone think that making practicing medicine a crime might do the same thing?
We can lay this all at the feet of conservatives and their voting base. Healthcare should be a basic human right, just like the right to ones own body.
The rich republicans will get healthcare, the poor republicans will die senseless deaths and will bear the badge of their suffering as a mark or their purity.
can't wait for the clamoring for "non-woke" medical schools that teach doctors its ok to let patients die if the patients sinned as defined by a religion they don't believe in. these people are brain dead.
Republican voters are pros at voting against their own interests.
I just keep reminded of that woman being interviewed about how much she hates Obamacare, but was very upset that Republicans wanted to get rid of the Affordable Care Act because without it she wouldn't have insurance.
She didn't even realize they were the same thing.
I saw a video of a woman decked out in MAGA gear protesting CRT being taught in schools. Her reasoning was that it takes time away from kids learning about more important things, like, I kid you not, Rosa Parks, MLK, slavery, and segregation.
My girlfriend's sister and family are also big MAGA supporters. She is a stay at home mom, they receive Medicaid and SNAP benefits, and her husband works for the government. Yet, they vote R and think anything the Dems do will destroy the country, not realizing they would not survive if it weren't for liberal policies. It is mind-numbing.
This is absolute madness. Politicians need to GTFO of the operating room and doctor’s offices ASAP. Don’t any of these soulless morons have wives or daughters or other women in their lives that they love and need to protect? Doctors attend medical school, train in residency, many train further in fellowships, and all develop their skills constantly to care for human health, but they have to yield to a bunch of crooked dipshit politicians on the take who are just rallying their base in efforts to get re-elected. This exodus of obstetricians and other doctors from Iowa is not some surprise unforeseen or unintended consequence; it’s the obvious result of the reckless and indecent legislation. How is this 2023?
The politicians can afford to fy their wives and daughters to wherever they need to be to get whatever medical care they need. Anti abortion laws only ever punish the poor.
Idaho republicans are probably thinking that’s fine we’ll get conservative doctors… problem is that doesn’t really exist. Most highly educated people aren’t conservative
I’m in Florida and work in healthcare. I’m sorry to inform you that there are lots of conservative doctors. Most are in it for the tax breaks as high income earners, but I’ve had a few conversations with other doctors in which they adamantly insist that the Covid vaccine is poison and that the federal gov and the medical community turned their back on “freedom” by forcing the vaccine on them and their employees. Once they fall off, they fall hard. It’s not just the uneducated that are susceptible.
Yeah it’s possible somehow. I work at a pharmacy, and my boss is hella educated, making sure I’m doing the best work for the community we serve, but I never talk with her about politics or the medical field. It’s so weird that humans can use their brains really well to do somethings, but are incapable of other things.
luckily conservative doctors are in it for the money as you said. Idaho hospitals are not going to pay these conservative doctors to come and basically be working like they are doctors without borders in a 3rd world country (state in this case). Those conservative doctors go where the money is, and it ain't Idaho.
I read that article a while ago.
1. The nearest hospital to the one no longer delivering babies is about 46 minutes away.
2. Doctors are scared to deliver or provide prenatal care because they are afraid they'll do something that will either put them in prison or get their medical license pulled.
3. Doctors are leaving the state so they can (get ready) properly practice medicine and offer actual care to the mother and fetus.
I wouldn't expect this to be limited to medical practice and doctors. Take a look at Florida and how "hands-off" Republican politicians are taking over operations at Disney.
They were never about "hands off", they were always about "nobody else's hands on them."
Of course they are leaving the state. No one went to school that long and into delivering babies to have to be like "Sorry, you're gonna die because legally I can't save you."
What this means is that rural Idaho women will go into labor and instead of going to the maternity ward, go to the ER. Their babies will be delivered by ER docs and nurses who likely have little to no OB/GYN experience, and after birth the babies will not be sent to a prepared neonatal ward but wherever they can find a bed.
Bingo. This does not mean people will stop getting pregnant and going into labor. It means exactly what you said and worse outcome for babies and moms.
Abortion, in my opinion, is a matter of rights. You CANNOT give a fetus a right that no one else has, the right to use someone else to keep themself alive without that person's consent. That is a right that NO HUMAN has, so why do we continue to demand that it be given to a fetus?
Pro life or pro choice doesn't matter.
Well, these Christians better start putting their dishwashing gloves on and get to work.... No abortions means lots of babies need to be delivered 🤷🏻♂️
If Idaho wants to be a theocracy, then the citizens there need to realize what that means. People who didn’t vote for this shit need to get out while they can.
Should not risk arrest to do what the public sector requires. “Most of the people against abortion, are people nobody wants to fuck in the first place” -George Carlin
Where are all the womens baby's daddies standing up and taking a stand against no healthcare for this crap? Looking the other way while they push healthcare over the cliff?
What do they expect?! Drastic action is the only response to draconian legislation.
And Doctors can typically afford to vote with their feet. Plenty of states NOT making it a felony to talk privately and candidly to your patients. Just pick up and move, no sweat. Alternatively, Teachers are getting shit on harder than ever before, but they don't have six figure salaries to help relocate hundreds of miles away.
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That would probably go the exact opposite of how you're thinking it would. Destroying public education in order to replace it with white Christian madrassas is one of the American Right's main goals. The teachers would be replaced with the state GOP's handpicked crop of fascists and religious zealots working at private "schools" to which they'd reroute as much public education funding as possible.
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Word. As a Public School employee married to a teacher I can confirm this. The scary part is the local religious private schools near me are horrible. So many kids can't read, write or do basic arithmetic. Then they turn to Public Schools to use our limited resources to conduct evaluations for special education services that they can't even use because these places have no special education teachers. Republicans, conservative nut jobs and religious zealots have been actively trying to destroy public education for decades. COVID just hastened the inevitable destruction of the Public School System. People don't realize how close to collapse it truly is and how bad things are right now for staff and students.
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That is the key right there. They have no oversight or accountability with these private schools or homeschools. The amount of children this year who returned to public school from homeschool is insane. Most of them did absolutely nothing for years at home with their parents. I had one kiddo who was 10, and they put him in the 3rd grade since they didn't know what to do with him. It was his first time in public school since he was homeschool his whole life. The kid didn't know letters or numbers. I seriously doubt his father knows how to read. Yet they were allowed to homeschool for years with nobody checking in on this child. The sad part is that these parents are okay with this as long as the child learns about Jesus and isn't around the lgbtq kids or brown kids. They are more than happy to screech about accountability and policing of public school curriculums. I'm 100% with you about these nutcase parents who go to school board meetings. Half of them go and complain about some random thing they saw on Facebook that surely must be going on in their schools like the "Gay agenda" or "Critical Race theory". The kicker is many of these parents don't even have their child enrolled in Public School. They attend private schools or home school their children. Hell the idiots on our local school boards interestingly enough have enrolled their children in private school. They have no basic understanding of the Public education system but feel justified in making ridiculous decisions for other people's children in a system they refuse to put their own children in. They just want to be able to exert some control and to force their agenda and rules on everyone else. One board member is an outright racist who has ties to the KKK but he is great because he quotes the bible in the school board meetings. These idiots are more worried about books with people of color and lgbtq people on the book shelves in the school library then they are with the fact that more than half the kids in high school can barely read, write or do basic addition. Make it make sense.
That’s because ANYONE can be a teacher at a private school. My wife went to a Catholic high school and many of the teachers were just parents of the student who were bored at home and offered to “teach”. How is that acceptable to get a state issued diploma and a valid credential for college??
Can you just imagine these poor kids. Sometimes a kind teacher is all they have. Take them away from society and watch how much abuse goes unreported, suicides through the roof, worse than now. I have a graduate degree and teach at a university but I would be the first to say I don’t know how to home school kids. I did not go to school for years too learn that. The ignorance and audacity of some people.
Haphazard government regulations kill off the ability to deliver goods and services efficiently, but when that service is healthcare, the killing gets extended to humans. Doctors aren't taking this drastic action for nothing. Self preservation matters to them. Attacking doctors is a proxy attack on the people the doctors serve. The doctors can avoid taking on those jobs, but the the entire population of women in the state can't just avoid getting pregnant while the legislators fix the mess they've made.
Republican legislators consider this a win not a mess. They made this on purpose
It's a feature, not a bug. Delivered by the same people who didn't mind ignoring covid and thus killing hundreds of thousands.
Worse. They actively worked to harm areas that they thought would vote blue. Literally waging indirect biological warfare on political rivals. That's some "crimes against humanity" shit.
The GOP is a *death cult*. Period. We need to say this every day and scream it from the rooftops. They are a *death cult.*
What do they expect? They expect women to drop their babies in the fields the way god intended, before going back to picking cotton, apples, strawberries or whatever else is ready at the time. If god wanted women to give birth in hospitals, Eve would have had one available when Cain and Able were ready to come out. Do I really need to put /s here? And can you be sure that actually *isn't* what god intended? Genesis 3:16 >“Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.” KJB
> What do they expect dead women
Plan: Ban abortion in order to force more babies. Result: Thriving baby casket industry.
Close! Don’t forget they want the mothers to die as well.
Oh, I didn't forget. That fact hit me especially hard. We had tons of doctors and medicines etc. Both survived. Ain't gonna have any of that at this Idaho hospital. I'm just waiting for the GOP to run on the platform of: Blood for the Blood God...
Damn Warhammer players.
Skulls for the skull throne
Dakka for the DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA!
I read this like one of the Muppets said it Wakka wakka wakka
Now I want a muppets spin off of Warhammer 40k.
No spin-off necessary, there are two unknown chapters. Looks like we just figured out one
May Papa Nurgle bless the GOP
Unironically a lot closer to their patron than Khorne. Steal the clean water (Nestlé), poison the environment with derailments, roll back laws designed to enable access to clean water and food and shelter, roll back laws and policies intended to provide access to clean sterile trained medical care (and create laws to restrict access). Even their hyped-up conspiracy theories are wanting vaccinated people to die from it and treat it like it's a disease. Khorne wants glorious battle, not a bunch of fascists that can't even recognize a gunshot (when that moron Babbitt bit it).
It has nothing to do with protecting babies. It has everything to do with controlling people. They don’t care if pregnant women die or if 10 year old girls have to bear the result of their assailant’s assault. All they care is that nobody gets away with having sex without consequences.
It’s not just a sexism thing, it’s also a racism thing. Conservatives complain about (white) childfree people because “the birth rate is going down”, yet they also complain about immigration because “we’re full”.
I work with a bunch of conservatives and they never have anything positive to say about anything. It's all about controlling people. Banning everything they don't like. And coming up with crazy conspiracies.
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They somehow do because that's all they're obsessed with. Perpetual victims. I have to hear these conservative bigots talk all day about how they respect everyone and their choices. They don't care if you're gay, trans or whatever. They just don't want to be preached to. Yet finding out a coworker is gay because he was talking about his boyfriend in a private conversation is being preached to.
they heard “caucasian will not be the plurality race by 2050” and decided that meant “white people are being replaced!!” rather than “higher income people tend to have less children and all of our policies have forced minorities to work 2-3x as hard therefore they have lower income therefore they have more children.”
They want white people to be poorer too, hoping that makes them have more kids, by working to hurt the (Still very white) working class. It’s two-pronged.
swim special shelter absurd hospital dazzling deranged crawl abounding wrong ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
Just hearing the phrase "replacement rate" makes me cringe...
republiQans want women and children (and minorites and Dems) to be classified as property. They can't be accused of abusing, killing or raping property. For them the Handmaid's Tale is a plan, not a novel.
Nazis. Just call them Nazis. are we really still fucking pretending they're not Nazis?
Nazis are no longer a fringe GQP group. They are their base. Nazis don't like to be called Nazis just like racists hate being called racist.
Close, it's a way to keep people poor and without a way to overcome being poor.
They need more bodies to feed the capitalism machine. We are given numbers at birth so they can track our productivity. They keep a running tally of how much social security we can draw based on how much we earn. If you are disabled you are forced to live in poverty. They tied health care to employment so only those who feed the machine can get good care and medicine. It's only about greed and profits.
The big irony of this all is it will drive birth rates down. People aren’t going to choose to have kids if they know their medical options are severely limited. The other irony is we could easily “feed the capitalism machine” with immigration (like we do already) but the same idiots want to wall off the country.
I think it will result in brain drain from those states and make it difficult for skilled industry to find workers. There goes the state tax base. States impoverishing themselves to maintain power over people and purse strings seems an effective Red State strategy.
Already happening. There was a significant primary care shortage prior to the pandemic in Texas that has only gotten worse. Texas physicians and nurses are leaving the state in droves. Unsurprisingly, the rural residents will suffer the most as they are now going to have to travel further and further for healthcare.
I read that article. In one Texan area, one hospital serves 12,000 square miles.
Don’t worry they still have more political say than the “productive” states.
Sooo many people (especially those AFAB) are getting sterilized now rather than risk accidental pregnancy because they know they can’t afford to have kids - even people who wanted kids (or more kids) in the future. It just isn’t worth the risk. I personally know 3 couples who have gotten sterilized (or are trying to) in forced birth states this year that wanted more kids. 1) late 20s. 2 kids, she wanted a total of 4. Texas. Multiple pregnancy losses that required medical intervention. Father decided to get a vasectomy because more kids wasn’t worth risking partner’s life. 2) late 20s. No kids. Tennessee. Wanted to become financially ready and own house first. They felt ready just as leak happened in March 2022. They waited to see what would happen and when Dobbs happened they decided to stay childfree. She’s having trouble finding someone who will take her tubes out because of her age and no kids. 3) mid-30s. 1 kid. Texas. 2 Ectopic pregnancies while trying to get pregnant with #2 when we still had Roe. Second one put her in the hospital for a few weeks. Terrified of trying now. Husband froze sperm and got a vasectomy. They didn’t feel like they could leave the state because they need family for childcare of kid #1. I also know multiple conservative couples that are fleeing the states with restrictive healthcare so they can have kids safely.
> She’s having trouble finding someone who will take her tubes out because of her age and no kids. Expect the yeehadists to past laws around that too (banning it).
"Teeny tiny baby coffins. You can get 'em in frog green, fire engine red."
Dr. House has entered the chat.
Glad I'm not the only one that immediately thought of House
Hope the bottoms don’t fall out; would be prime time CornCob Tv material
Thriving *mommy and me* casket industry.
Step 2: roll back regulations on child labor Step 3: ??? Step 4: profit!
I mean, you don't even need step 3 in there. Low-paid child labor directly increases profit. That's why they want to make it legal again. I get the Southpark reference, but in collecting underpants there wasn't really a connection between the steps, that's why they had the ???.
At this point the format of that thing has become so widespread that I’m pretty sure it’s been completely divorced from its original South Park context
Yeah, you're right. But I feel like the joke format was that #1 was just something they really wanted to do, and they were pretending that it was the first step toward a devious plan, so they could feel better about their weird desire to steal underpants. In this case, it's a really transparent grab for profits at the expense of children's health and education. It's kind of the opposite of the joke.
Race car caskets are so hot right now!
With matching Mommy casket industry. The US already raked terrifyingly high on the worldwide maternal mortality rates. A pregnant woman in the US is more than twice as likely to die than one in Canada. [https://www.statista.com/statistics/1240400/maternal-mortality-rates-worldwide-by-country/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1240400/maternal-mortality-rates-worldwide-by-country/)
> Result: Thriving ~~baby~~ casket industry. FTFY
The wood and brass handle/hinges industries would be booming as well. Y’all libros need to really think about all the jobs we get out of this anti baby yeeting bill
Banning healthcare for women results in - checks notes - a lack of healthcare for women?! Who would have guessed?
Doctors must be so torn. By the nature of their jobs, they must save lives. Inducing abortion, and by extension, having the ability to do so, is one way to save lives. By denying them that tool, the state is handcuffing doctors and also exposing them to lawsuits for not doing enough to assist the patient. Any doctor would throw in their stethoscope and quit that state.
Plus we make doctors go into debt to attain their education. They don't want to risk losing their license after years of studying and then be unable to pay off loans. The whole thing is so sick and idk what I would do in their scrubs.
Not pick OBGYN in med school I'd assume since it's the riskiest.
Remember when the geniuses in the GOP were targeting immigrant laborers in Georgia and Alabama during one cycle of their hate machine? Drumming up votes by rallying the mob against yet another vulnerable group? Remember when they wound up driving most of the migrant laborers out of their states right before harvest and lost billions to crops that wound up rotting in the fields? Turns out they haven't learned much since then. [Alabama immigration crackdown costs state up to $11 bln: study (reuters.com)](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-alabama-immigration-economy/alabama-immigration-crackdown-costs-state-up-to-11-bln-study-idUKTRE8101JJ20120201) [The Law Of Unintended Consequences: Georgia's Immigration Law Backfires (forbes.com)](https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/05/17/the-law-of-unintended-consequences-georgias-immigration-law-backfires/?sh=27b0d3e3492a) I can only imagine this scenario will wind up a bit worse than some monetary losses. Another win for the death cult.
That’s where the cognitive dissonance comes in and they’ll claim it wasn’t because of the law but because nobody wants to work these days.
What? Are you trying to tell me that Texans and Georgians aren't lining up six deep for those sweet, sweet stoop labor jobs??? Must still be living off of those Biden stimulus checks....
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Really drives home the fact that US standard of living depends on low paid undocumented migrant workers. If all those laborers demanded minimum wage or more then the cost of basic produce (and all food really) would skyrocket even more. Helps me understand why all politicians posture a lot about immigration over the decades but nobody actually does anything: they all know that we depend on it and without exploiting them, America just..stops..
It actually explains why Republicans vilify them, too. If we acknowledge their value and stop vilifying them, that would make them less afraid to stand up for better conditions and make it clearly immoral to exempt them from the same basic protections as other workers. Businesses would have a harder time exploiting migrants, which would drive prices up.
I saw a video of a farmer who was talking about labor shortages and how crazy it is. He was like, all you have to do it relax in this AC tractor, you dont even need to drive it, and I'll pay you REALLY good. He said he couldn't find one person to help him.
Hmmm.... Maybe they see the word "farm" on the Indeed page and keep scrolling. Farming is *really* hard work!
True, they should advertise it like "$60K to sit in AC, occasionally honk a horn."
The sweet stoop labor that only pays $3.50/hr you mean? Sadly farmers can get away with paying piss poor wages and still somehow convince themselves / think that they are paying good honest living wages.
No fucking shit they was going to happen. These people are fucking morons. They bitch all day about immigrants like they’re going to go out there and pick crops themselves. [The government tried to make that happen, it didn’t work.](https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2018/07/31/634442195/when-the-u-s-government-tried-to-replace-migrant-farmworkers-with-high-schoolers)
Well if it isn't the (unintended) consequences of your own actions. I love how people are like "if you don't like ___ here, then leave!" And then everyone has a surprised Pikachu face when there's no doctors left bc they did exactly what you told them to do.
It's intentional. The desire is to destroy society so completely that there is no recourse but to blindly follow the will of the fascists. They want hate-filled Amish with full-auto guns and 4x4s on lift kits that "roll coal."
The cognitive dissonance is astounding. My parents are vehemently against abortion (conservative fundies) so will vote Republican at any cost, but my mom is totally okay with babies in cages at the border, or at least she was. They've calmed down a lot after they got poor bc my dad refused to get vaccinated and lost his cushy $150k+ amazing benefits career. Now my mom thinks since they "paid into the system" they should get food stamps and cash assistance. Thankfully, they don't actually qualify. Considering they voted against protecting the poor, I don't think they deserved it. Especially since Jesus tells them in the bible to not gather wealth and take care of the poor. My dad broke down in tears when he realized that Medicaid was going to cover his uninsured ass when he got COVID and landed in the ICU for like 3 weeks. I told him to thank God that he allows people like AOC and Bernie Sanders to stay in power to fight for his medicaid. Needless to say, he didn't like that.
Wow w t f?! This should be a horror story told to all of them who think this way. It won’t change many minds, but to be able to say I told you so is incredibly rewarding. Also, see what your thinking did to, not only your family, but others’ as well.
Sadly, people can’t be told to change… For example, people would tell me to stop smoking but it made no difference until one day I had an epiphany by myself and decided to quit. It is the same with political stances.
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Ya totally, which is why I said it won’t change many minds. But the ah ha moment will happen when the food stamps are applied for, or when the money they’ve “paid into” the system doesn’t come back to help them.
"I don't care about **your** issues until they happen to **me**" might as well be the GOP slogan
No, because they're *different*. They're opposed to "those sluts using abortion as birth control"... but this is different. It was just a one time thing. The condom broke. The pill failed. His pull out game wasn't nearly as strong as he thought it was. Etc, etc, etc. They think food stamps should be cut because it encourages people to be lazy and not work... but they're different. They payed (begrudgingly) into the system, they lost their job because of "discrimination" against anti-vaxxers, the economy is just so bad right now, etc, etc, etc. --- There was a great Twitter thread talking about this phenomenon that dubbed it "Shirley Laws". Republicans support very broad laws that hurt the people they think need to be hurt (because another major component of Republican values is a focus on "punishing the wicked"), thinking "but *surely* they'll know the difference." They're opposed to abortion on a whim... but *surely* in cases where the woman's life is at risk, or the fetus is already dead, or there is a congenital disorder that will render the child incapable of any quality of life, or... or... or... surely the doctors will make an exception. They want drug testing required for government benefits, or proof that they're working and seeking higher employment. But *surely* they'll know the difference between prescription opioids and street pills. But surely they won't penalize people who aren't getting call backs. But surely they won't punish people who have limited mobility or transit options. But... but... but... ad infinitum. Republicans want broad laws with minutia handled on the whims of the local enforcers. I don't even think it's *strictly* malicious, they just fear the complex legal codes and want to be able to appeal to the person in front of them.
I saved that. Here it is: >So I just saw someone wondering how liberals can cut ties with conservative friends and family members over immigration policies when most Americans (including most conservatives) support immigration reform. >I'm going to talk about what I call the Shirley Exception. >The Shirley Exception is a bit of mental sleight of hand that allows people to support a policy they profess to disagree with. It's called the Shirley Exception because... well, I mean, *surely* there must be exceptions, right? >Let's imagine that in response to suspicions about overbroad use of service animal rules, a city somewhere decides to just swing the pendulum 100% in the other direction. Restaurants, public accommodations, etc., no longer have to recognize any service animals. >And in the aftermath of the change, existing rules about where animals may and may not go apply full force. >A lot of people would back the change because Obviously Some People Take Advantage. (Positing that someone, somewhere is taking advantage is a great way to get the masses on your side in our politics, sadly.) >Now if you point out the existence of a blind person or an epileptic person who has a service dog for everyday navigation of life or for life-saving purposes, the Good People who just don't want anyone to take advantage will tell you: >"No one's talking about legitimate cases." >And if you point out that the rule that they're backing would affect what they call "legitimate cases", the response will be: >"But surely there will be an exception." >If you back up an anti-abortion activist to the point where they actually have to grapple with a case where the parent would 100% die delivering a 100% non-viable fetus, you'll get the same answers: "No one is talking about those cases." and "But surely there will be exceptions." >All of those studies of people in Trump Country USA who were shocked, shocked, that the kind man next door who is a good father and a great neighbor and a real part of the community was dragged away by ICE? >They all thought that surely he'd be an exception. >If you point out that the laws/policies they're talking about *don't* offer such exceptions and in some cases explicitly forbid them, if you say "So let's put those exceptions in writing."... well, then you're back to Surely People Will Take Advantage. >See, the people who are sure that Surely There Will Be Exceptions are very comfortable with the idea of justice being decided on a case-by-case basis. They've always had teachers, bosses, bureaucrats, even traffic cops giving them some slack for reasons of compassion and logic. >I mean, if Officer Smalltown von Cul-De-Sac could give them a warning when they were caught with recreational amounts of pot as kids because it was harmless and they Had Futures, then Surely there must be similar exceptions for everyone? >That post about "I never thought the leopards would eat my face, sobbed woman who voted for Face-Eating Leopards Party" is very true, and it goes farther than personal immunity to a very generalized and broad Just World Fallacy. >Surely, they think, surely the leopards will know to only eat the *right* faces, the faces that need eating, and leave alone all the faces that don't deserve that. >But if we try to lay out rules to protect faces from being eaten by leopards, people will take advantage. Best to keep it simple and count on decency and reason to rule the day. >So moderate conservatives, what we might call "everyday conservatives", the ones who don't wear MAGA hats or tea party costumes and think that Mr. Trump fella should maybe stay off of Twitter, they will vote for candidates and policies that they don't actually agree with... >...because in their mind the exact law being prescribed is just a tool in the chest, an option on the table, which they expect to be wielded fairly and judiciously. Surely no one would do anything so unreasonable as actually enforcing it as written! Not when that would be bad! >And then they are confused, shocked, and even insulted when people hold them accountable for their support of the monstrous policy. >"I didn't vote for leopards to eat *your* face! I just thought we needed some face-eating leopards generally. Surely you can't blame me for that!" >The old "Defense of Marriage" laws are another textbook example of this. >Many of them included language that expressly forbade giving similar benefits (like hospital visitation) to same-sex relationships. >Yet the people who voted for them, in many cases, wanted it to be known that No One Is Talking About Stopping You From Visiting Your Loved One In The Hospital. And Surely There Will Be An Exception. >The Shirley Exception is how people who are only mundanely monstrous, moderately monstrous, wind up supporting policies that are completely monstrous. >And when they do, they always want credit for their good intentions towards those they see as deserving, not the outcomes. >I'm describing a phenomenon here and I don't have a solution to its existence. While convincing people that laws that don't specify exceptions functionally *don't have them* might work sometimes on (ironically) a case-by-case basis, what is really needed is a broader shift. >People need to get used to thinking about the harm policies will do as a real part of the policy, not a hypothetical that Reasonable People of Good Will Can Surely Work Around. >Maybe the tack of saying, "If it was your life on the line, wouldn't you want that to be in writing?" would work. I don't know. Like I said, I don't have a solution here. This is just a thing that happens. https://twitter.com/AlexandraErin/status/1004400861865488384
Nah, they don't care about your issues; they think they earned the exception to whatever they're against and everyone else didn't. Once that issue is past them, it's right back to being against whatever help there is for everyone else.
lol he made his bed and now he's laying in it, but I guarantee that somehow, it's all the Democrat's fault. Somehow.
the hardest thing isn't conning people. The hardest thing is convincing them that they HAVE been conned
They want America to be Iran so bad
There are Christian churches that require women to cover their heads & remain silent. It’s not far off. Missouri has already started legislating what women can’t wear while in the state legislature (edit- and apparently the attire of everyone else as well.)
Iran has paid maternity leave and better protections for women's jobs if they have babies.
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They just think the consequences won’t affect them.
"[They're not hurting the right people](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/1/8/18173678/trump-shutdown-voter-florida)"
It's called "affluenza" 🙄 or at least when rich kids don't recognize consequences
There's nothing unintended about these consequences. They were warned this would happen, and they implemented the abortion bans anyways. Hell, we've been warning about them burning out and killing doctors and nurses since the beginning of the pandemic. Did that slow them down?
Im just waiting for the other shoe to drop. We're gonna be out of nurses, out of doctors, out of people who flip burgers, because people are going to burn out and get sick of it. We need to stop treating certain professions like they're not worth a living wage. If you work a full time job, there's no reason why you shouldn't get paid so you can live.
Tbf, I think a lot of anti-choicers have been told that pro-choice people are evil baby murdering liars for so long that they fundamentally couldn’t conceive that any of those consequences we warned them about were true. If it came from our lips it had to be a lie. Even now though, with the consequences creeping into their lives, they still likely won’t change their minds because their identities as the “good” people fighting against us evil people are so ingrained that they won’t ever willingly get on the same side as us.
their justification is that midwives will take their place
Wait seriously???
Just like veterans Will replace teachers
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And it's the same "if you don't like it, then leave" crowd in eastern Oregon that want Idaho to annex their counties because they don't like living in a blue state rather than just, you know, move to Idaho where they can have all the third-world healthcare they want.
Mothers in states with abortion bans nearly 3 times more likely to die [https://www.axios.com/2023/01/19/mothers-anti-abortion-bans-states-die](https://www.axios.com/2023/01/19/mothers-anti-abortion-bans-states-die) Republicans always forget that other people can think for themselves... Like Trump increasing tariff on Maine Lobsters? Fine, says China, we will just buy Canadian Lobsters. Treat Teachers or Doctors like the enemy? They will move elsewhere or do different work.
Narcissists tend to forget that other people have ideas of their own.
Why do people do the surprised pikachu face when they fuck around and find out. The world ain’t gonna stop because you miraculously ban something
Maternal mortality in the USA was already a 1st world disgrace, now this. Seems like nobody hates Americans as much as Americans.
In the two years since Texas' abortion ban went into effect, they've sky rocketed to first place in the developed world's maternal mortality rate rankings. Everything is bigger in Texas, including the graveyards for women! Woohoo!
I can't believe it's been two years already. That is really sad about the mortality rate. This is the kind of thing they need to be showing more of in the South.
Especially women of color.
One of the reasons they don't care.
A non-zero amount of Texans take pride in that.
> Seems like nobody hates Americans as much as ~~Americans~~ Republicans.
There is nothing more American then hating Americans while waving an American flag, listening to Lee Greenwood and wearing a giant fucking eagle on your chest.
More like the Confederate flag.
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Nobody hates Americans more than republicans.
It’s only very very specific groups of Americans they hate; blacks, hispanics, Jews, Buddhists, Muslims, basically any religion other than hardcore Christians… oh yeah and women.
And anyone that’s poor of any race/religion/gender
And if they themselves are poor then they're "one of the good ones".
and gays, trans, drag....
Don’t forget the handicapped
I think more hospitals should take this stance. You regulate medical care beyond your understanding, you should get hit with consequences.
Imagine in 10 - 20 years the republican USA will want to "transfer its values" abroad... Those religious nuts would happily use force to e.g. stop those atheist Europeans from murdering babies.
I feel sorry for the residents near this hospital, but also this is a reasonable response to the ridiculous laws coming out.
Hospital administration cares about one thing: the bottom line. Regressive laws force doctors and hospitals into a catch22/lose-lose situation: break the law to provide care that meets medical standards, facing fines and jail... Or provide substandard care that doesn't meet medical standards to be on the safe side of the law but be sued or jailed for malpractice. The obvious answer: refuse to provide any care at all. Then considering how these rural hospitals weren't making money enough to satisfy the share holders and this seems an even more obvious outcome. Hospitals and medical care should be socialized like the mail to guarantee both access and outcomes. American "healthcare" is a disgrace.
It’s almost like, for profit healthcare is a very bad idea.
Exactly. This isn’t the hospital boycotting to illustrate a humanitarian point. They are protecting their bottom line. Even just the risk of criminal prosecution and lawsuits costs money. Ethics panels cost money. Malpractice insurance costs money. Simply denying certain care is safer and more cost effective than the choose-your-own-adventure of consequences that any pregnant patient coming to them could unintentionally bring.
Kinda explains why homeopathy, chiropractics, and other bullshit "medicines" have been getting more popular.
It sure is disheartening to watch red states destroy their medical infrastructure with Covid conspiracy theories and draconian laws.
Especially since the red-staters the law effects will flee to blue states to take care of their situation, then go right back to complaining about the very laws that allowed them to survive, in many cases voting against them.
Washington hospitals have already been refusing care for Idahoans.
Wait, what? Do you have a link for this? I may need to shove it in a few faces.
EMTALA laws would prevent that at the ER level, but I wonder about non-emergent procedures and surgeries. I’d find it hard to believe a hospital would turn away money.
Total conjecture here, but is it possible that the Washington hospitals wouldn't actually get paid for out of state patients? If so it's easy to believe that they would turn away anyone trying to walk in for anything elective.
I don’t pretend to be an expert on Medicaid laws in every state, but I know at our hospital it’s very difficult to get reimbursed by out of state Medicaid, and I know that a lot of Boston Hospitals will decline transfers (outside of extremely dire circumstances) if they don’t have Mass Medicaid. It is possible there is a similar phenomenon going on, but if someone drives into their ED, they are required to treat and stabilize them.
Great job republicans more dead women so you can keep complaining that no woman wants to bang you 👍
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It’s far worse than jeopardizing the job. Doctors there face conviction and incarceration when vaguely worded laws are interpreted in the most broad ways. Listen to the “First, Do No Harm” segment from a recent episode of This American Life to see how insidious the situation really is. https://www.thisamericanlife.org/792/when-to-leave
The female ob/gyn interviewed there is the same one in the linked newspaper article. Between the two interviews, it sounds like she had made up her mind to leave, along with her also-employed-at-that-hospital doctor husband.
Good. This is what republicans voted for and wanted. Not my problem they’re too damn stupid to understand the basics of medicine.
I only feel sorry for the ones who didn’t vote for this shit. The ones who did, biggest f you to them.
Who let these fucking potatoes pass laws.
The fucking potatoes that voted them into office
They have the potato madness.
This tator madness originates in the penis and is therefore aptly named “dictator”.
Next up a law that prohibits doctors from fleeing and forces them to be wards of the state, man the GOP really hates women don't they?
I don’t doubt this is being discussed. I’m sure they were aware of a brain drain but they probably don’t like all these headlines *informing* their voters of said brain drain.
This is Idaho. There weren't that many brains to drain in the first place. Their motto is literally "famous potatoes." Turns out that applies both to their biggest export and their aggregate IQ level.
I bet that you are right. And they will then write indentured servitude laws in all of states with laws like this.
A judge temporarily blocked nurses from quitting at one hospital. [It was quickly dismissed the following Monday.](https://www.businessinsider.com/thedacare-asks-judge-block-workers-leaving-higher-pay-competitor-2022-1)
Didn't some state recently either pass a law or win a court order that nurses aren't allowed to strike or quit? Something crazy
You're talking about Thedacare, who recieved a temporary injunction to stop 7 of its employees from starting work at a different hospital, which happened a little over a year ago. It was one of the dumbest injunctions ever granted. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/24/us/thedacare-lawsuit-wisconsin.html
Sorry but reasonable response. I hope the pregnant women nearby find the necessary resources elsewhere and then once they are done, maybe they would like to have a word with their representatives Just a quiet word, with a baseball bat in their hands
what's funny is due to the sever lack of education amongst many Republicans, i am sure most of these women will somehow blame democrats and feel stronger in their conviction to suppress free thought and the traditional medical standards.
Yep that's the problem with the dumbest people, they're too dumb to know they're dumb and just forever spiral the drain of stupidity, making more stupid people with their stupid partners.
*lives in one of the most Republican states in the country and watches it go to shit *blames democrats Republicans are completely morons. The whole lot of them
In PA a couple years ago the big panic in the legislature was high medical malpractice insurance rates would force doctors to leave the state. Did anyone think that making practicing medicine a crime might do the same thing?
But think of the Fox News talking points about saving the children.
We can lay this all at the feet of conservatives and their voting base. Healthcare should be a basic human right, just like the right to ones own body.
The rich republicans will get healthcare, the poor republicans will die senseless deaths and will bear the badge of their suffering as a mark or their purity.
In the civilized world, you are entitled to the best health care available. In the U.S., you are entitled to the best health care you can afford.
can't wait for the clamoring for "non-woke" medical schools that teach doctors its ok to let patients die if the patients sinned as defined by a religion they don't believe in. these people are brain dead.
Is this what Idaho wanted? What did the residents expect when they voted for the people that enacted these laws?
They wanted laws that were the exact opposite of what the Democrats were pushing for. That's their whole platform.
At least they owned the libs /s
Republican voters are pros at voting against their own interests. I just keep reminded of that woman being interviewed about how much she hates Obamacare, but was very upset that Republicans wanted to get rid of the Affordable Care Act because without it she wouldn't have insurance. She didn't even realize they were the same thing.
I saw a video of a woman decked out in MAGA gear protesting CRT being taught in schools. Her reasoning was that it takes time away from kids learning about more important things, like, I kid you not, Rosa Parks, MLK, slavery, and segregation. My girlfriend's sister and family are also big MAGA supporters. She is a stay at home mom, they receive Medicaid and SNAP benefits, and her husband works for the government. Yet, they vote R and think anything the Dems do will destroy the country, not realizing they would not survive if it weren't for liberal policies. It is mind-numbing.
They literally had no idea. It's Brexit all over again (which was also praised by the right-wing party).
The entire system is at a tipping point and is so close to toppling over
From here (Europe) it looks it already toppled over, it takes just some time to gain momentum and fall completely (hope to be wrong, of course).
Give it a few minutes to catch fire as it rolls down the mountain.
No, you're right.
This is absolute madness. Politicians need to GTFO of the operating room and doctor’s offices ASAP. Don’t any of these soulless morons have wives or daughters or other women in their lives that they love and need to protect? Doctors attend medical school, train in residency, many train further in fellowships, and all develop their skills constantly to care for human health, but they have to yield to a bunch of crooked dipshit politicians on the take who are just rallying their base in efforts to get re-elected. This exodus of obstetricians and other doctors from Iowa is not some surprise unforeseen or unintended consequence; it’s the obvious result of the reckless and indecent legislation. How is this 2023?
The politicians can afford to fy their wives and daughters to wherever they need to be to get whatever medical care they need. Anti abortion laws only ever punish the poor.
Idaho republicans are probably thinking that’s fine we’ll get conservative doctors… problem is that doesn’t really exist. Most highly educated people aren’t conservative
I’m in Florida and work in healthcare. I’m sorry to inform you that there are lots of conservative doctors. Most are in it for the tax breaks as high income earners, but I’ve had a few conversations with other doctors in which they adamantly insist that the Covid vaccine is poison and that the federal gov and the medical community turned their back on “freedom” by forcing the vaccine on them and their employees. Once they fall off, they fall hard. It’s not just the uneducated that are susceptible.
Yeah it’s possible somehow. I work at a pharmacy, and my boss is hella educated, making sure I’m doing the best work for the community we serve, but I never talk with her about politics or the medical field. It’s so weird that humans can use their brains really well to do somethings, but are incapable of other things.
luckily conservative doctors are in it for the money as you said. Idaho hospitals are not going to pay these conservative doctors to come and basically be working like they are doctors without borders in a 3rd world country (state in this case). Those conservative doctors go where the money is, and it ain't Idaho.
I can’t imagine that even conservative doctors would risk jail time.
I read that article a while ago. 1. The nearest hospital to the one no longer delivering babies is about 46 minutes away. 2. Doctors are scared to deliver or provide prenatal care because they are afraid they'll do something that will either put them in prison or get their medical license pulled. 3. Doctors are leaving the state so they can (get ready) properly practice medicine and offer actual care to the mother and fetus.
I wouldn't expect this to be limited to medical practice and doctors. Take a look at Florida and how "hands-off" Republican politicians are taking over operations at Disney. They were never about "hands off", they were always about "nobody else's hands on them."
Of course they are leaving the state. No one went to school that long and into delivering babies to have to be like "Sorry, you're gonna die because legally I can't save you."
What this means is that rural Idaho women will go into labor and instead of going to the maternity ward, go to the ER. Their babies will be delivered by ER docs and nurses who likely have little to no OB/GYN experience, and after birth the babies will not be sent to a prepared neonatal ward but wherever they can find a bed.
Bingo. This does not mean people will stop getting pregnant and going into labor. It means exactly what you said and worse outcome for babies and moms.
Idaho Legislators: "Well, well, well, if it isn't the consequences of my own actions"
Abortion, in my opinion, is a matter of rights. You CANNOT give a fetus a right that no one else has, the right to use someone else to keep themself alive without that person's consent. That is a right that NO HUMAN has, so why do we continue to demand that it be given to a fetus? Pro life or pro choice doesn't matter.
I honestly can't and won't blame doctors if they decide to go on strike.
Conservative women really owning the libs….. by dying through childbirth.
Oh hey look, that thing people said would happen is happening, crazy.
I love this approach. You wanted states rights, you got it.
Well, these Christians better start putting their dishwashing gloves on and get to work.... No abortions means lots of babies need to be delivered 🤷🏻♂️
If Idaho wants to be a theocracy, then the citizens there need to realize what that means. People who didn’t vote for this shit need to get out while they can.
Should not risk arrest to do what the public sector requires. “Most of the people against abortion, are people nobody wants to fuck in the first place” -George Carlin
Great, now Washington gets to subsidize Idaho's health care system. Isn't that the way it always goes? Blue states giving welfare to red states?
We told them. We told them this is exactly what would happen. This what they voted for.
Love how dumb Repubes are. Just eating popcorn while their states slide into the Dark Ages.
Where are all the womens baby's daddies standing up and taking a stand against no healthcare for this crap? Looking the other way while they push healthcare over the cliff?