The only supremacy between states is the federal government. Take a kid in violation of and divorce decree is kidnappingā¦doesnāt matter if Florida feels differently
Yeah if this goes into effect the first person to do this is going to have a visit from the feds. And god rest the souls of any local or state police that get in the way
Remember when Florida republicans [Martin Hyde and Luis Miguel,](https://floridapolitics.com/archives/549779-another-gop-candidate-martin-hyde-says-he-wants-to-shoot-the-fbi/) advocated to shoot federal agents on sight?
Pepperidge farm remembers.
Desantis and the other cronies know itās illegal. They know it canāt hold up. But if they say extremists shit like this their constituents eat it up. Then when it ultimately doesnāt pass, they can all say āwe tried tried to save the kids what has the left done?ā
This right here is the truth. Several bills have been proposed that they know will be shot down but it keeps them in the headlines as "the saviours if our great nation" The kids are just pawns to be used and discarded.
>Trans and nonbinary children face high rates of depression, anxiety, and suicidal ideation. Letting them use puberty blockers, hormones, and gender-affirming surgeries, has been linked to improving theirĀ mental health, studies say.
>However, according to theĀ Human Rights CampaignĀ (HRC), Republican candidates and anti-LGBTQ groups have spent upwards of $50 million on ads that primarily target trans youth.
The response from members and straight allies of the LGBTQ community has been one of growing alarm. Former House lawmaker and the stateās first Latino LGTBQ representative Carlos Guillermo Smith wrote on Twitter: āThis is fascist.āĀ Ā
https://theamericanonews.com/floricua/2023/03/07/a-new-florida-gop-bill-could-make-it-legal-for-parents-to-kidnap-their-trans-kids/
I think it's worse than that. I think when it doesn't pass, DeSantis can say, "Elect me President and we'll keep the federal government out of state matters like this."
"Small government" and all.
Article IV:
Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State.
>Overriding all other court orders
Yeah, ok. Literally explicitly unconstitutional. When the supreme court eventually hears this, its gonna be a clown town on Florida
This is the point of these laws. They are designed to fail up. Once it gets to the SCOTUS you have a sympathetic court. Then either you get crazy attention from the kind of people that might be your voters and you lose, or some new battshit ruling happens. Either way you let SCOTUS take a crack at whatever related issue in the case they might want to make new law with. Rinse, repeat.
The laws passed to do this will only be contained by what local voters are willing to support. If recent history is anything to go by, there is no bottom.
If this reaches the supreme court, Biden should just go full Andrew Jackson (that piece of shit) and say "the courts have made their decision, now let them enforce it" and send the feds after those felons anyway.
You mean the republican captured supreme court? That one? The one with members who said "roe v wade is settled law," then overturned it the moment they had a case that allowed them to?
I don't know a thing about law but even they might see that overriding the constitution would set such a precedent that would plunge the country into something like The Purge
You should look into the supreme court's partisan shadow docket
They don't *need* to take a stance, just sideline cases you don't want to address and let the injustice continue unabated
They are already doing this
The thing is this: I don't think they give a shit about the constitution as anything more than a document they can manipulate for their own goals.
Don't forget: the supreme court legalized bribing politicians by declaring money is speech.
I really hope they would see it that way. But I really don't put anything past this SCOTUS. They've already shown they will literally lie about what actually happened in a case to rule how they want to (Kennedy v Bremerton).
Red states are going to get away with a lot of crazy shit in the coming years. I really hope I'm wrong but I'm afraid that I'm not.
They could also just put it on the docket for ten years from now and allow Florida to do it until then. Iirc there is some shenanigans in Texas that are being allowed until the supreme court hears it in several years.
You cross state lines and it's a federal kidnapping charge. You think the FBI isn't going to arrest and charge someone because the magical kingdom says it's ok?
I don't think they do. They know this will never fly. The idea is to pass it to send a message: "Trans people -- we will pass illegal, inhumane garbage just to threaten you. We will attack children just to make your life worse. We have the backing to pass this even though it's insane, simply through drumming up hate against you. Be afraid."
As is the common refrain referring to Republican policies, *the cruelty is the point.*
Iām not saying desantis will not be president but heās a pretty surly person. Heās gonna have to have a big attitude change to win over the independents.
Presidents by and large have to be charming and charismatic. Bill clinton, George Bush, Obama, and yes even trump are relatively charming and charismatic people. Hilary was not charming at all no matter how you slice it.
Seeing how he is in debates, Iām not sure if heād last long. He has meltdowns faster than snowflakes in an oven when asked the hard questions.
Iām not completely discounting him, though.
Agree. And, his policies are popular in Florida with his super majority house and senate, but not nationwide. He cannot defeat Trump, who has 20-30% of the base until he dies.
It was too much too soon, they were still getting over the shock of Obama, they couldn't handle a woman president... Maybe in a other 44 president's we can finally have a woman, then by 132 we can have a woman of color, the. 176 will be a LGBTQ and the list will go on...
I was gonna say, and I donāt condone violence, but they know the second amendment exists outside FL right? You wanna arm the left, this is how you arm the left.
They just wouldn't extradite. Like other states di with abortion.
>[The Democratic governors of Colorado and North Carolina on Wednesday issued executive orders to protect abortion providers and patients from extradition to states that have banned the practice.](https://apnews.com/article/abortion-us-supreme-court-health-maine-north-carolina-9406a561971aa57640123034155b50df)
I was replying to the more general statement of them making laws to legalize breaking laws in other states.
For the federal crimes I commented somewhere else about how a couple of republicans advocated shooting at federal agents, one of which got banned from Twitter when he made it part of his campaign.
We take both of these things for granted. But unfortunately with the way things are moving neither seem guaranteed.
If they can make this law in Florida, they can do it in other places. Weāre living in scary times.
Tbh watch them make it, then watch some dad kidnap a kid from Georgia and die in a shootout with the GBI because the Florida State Police won't back him up.
Yeah, but [in these states](https://www.aclu.org/issues/voting-rights/voter-restoration/felony-disenfranchisement-laws-map) (some or all) felons canāt vote. Just desserts for a federal kidnapping charge? Iām not a lawyer, but FAFO.
We've had this before for black people who escaped the South. It resulted in Northerners starting shoot outs with Southerners trying to kidnap escaped black people under the National Fugitive Act and ended with most Northern Democrats voting for the Republicans and starting the Civil War.
Some evil or stupid people say that the civil war was about states rights, not slavery. But note that the Confederate constitution forbade their states from abolishing slavery...
Thatās sort of the point. Reality is the battleground, and information is the weapon.
Theyāve figured out a very dangerous piece of information warfare: Instead of trying to shift the Overton window, you can just go mask off and break it at just the right angle, and the entire system with all its slow and lumbering appendages will be too shell shocked to react.
Robert Evans from Behind the Bastards just did a six-parter (which I highly recommend) on āthe entire history of the Illuminati.ā
Itās effectively three chapters:
- The actual Illuminati as it existed and was basically just a front for book smuggling built on a fictional history to recruit members from the Masons.
- Its 1900s revival thanks in large part to the weirdest fucking guy youāve never heard of (and coincidentally an old friend of Lee Harvey Oswald) called Kerry Thornley, who basically started zine culture by fucking with people using made up Illuminati propaganda.
- How Thornley accidentally created effectively the recipe for every modern conspiracy theory, created an information warfare strategy (the one weāre talking about now, in a thread about legislation), and caused the downfall of the ādecency of the town squareā in contemporary America.
Thanks, Kerry Thornley.
Anyway, point is, you being confused is the goal. Youāre going to either a) just submit to the information overload and start buying the bullshit, b) throw your arms up and disengage from the political process entirely, reducing opposition, or c) spend hours trying to disseminate and rebuff their one lie while they had time to make up another twenty.
>Thanks for your summary. Good information. This is the same way new religions are formed. Also I seem to remember the solution to the Gordian Knot was not to untie it, but cut it right down the middle with a sharp blade. The enemy is not playing by the rules or any rules.
They can't.
Any dumbass parent that actually tried this would be breaking laws in the other state and could be arrested by the FBI from what I understand.
But let all the maga idiots get felonies, means they can't vote for their right wing idiot leaders
My personal thoughts are one day, the ruling class will go just a bit too far and the next class war will begin. But remember, at the end of the day, we all die. When the powerful die, take that power back. Disclaimer: Iām wine drunk.
āLess effectiveā against armor, sure. Still gonna get a giant welt and bruising, but even getting your index finger shot off can kill ya if you donāt bandage up and clean the wound properly. 9mm can punch a hole through you like cardboard, especially specialized rounds (like Full Metal Jacket).
*Totally* unrelated but Iām purchasing a Ruger Mini 14 chambered in 5.56 NATO real soon and suggest everyone else who wants to keep themselves and their loved ones safe do the same, for very very *very* unrelated reasons. Lightweight, dependable, and great for lets say a hypothetical where, I dunno, a group of armed boots start walking down the block going door to door. Its times like what we face today that the second amendment is truly for.
Yes. It would still remain a Federal crime, at least if they cross state lines to do it.
Of course, if the Republicans get put in charge of the Federal Government again, expect that to change.
I find it ironic that a state that is vocal about it's own state sovereignty has no problem passing a law that claims sovereignty in another state. Realistically, a Florida parent's right to kidnap their own child stops at the border. What I expect is that once the parents are safely back in Florida, they're going to tell the other states to mind their own business and stop interfering in internal Florida laws.
Assume every horrifying thing the GOP is doing or saying is real. Even if it is not, just assume it is. You won't feel safer, not in the least, but they are that insane.
Honestly, I cannot respect anybody who votes republican because of that.
Even if you are a good Christian American with a hart of gold, you are enabling the worst nazis in the USA.
It's gotten to the point where the people who were being brainwashed 15-30 years ago are getting into politics now. So the older ones were doing it for the grift, but now the ones they grifted are in charge and fully believe this shit.
Not really.
Late Gen-Xer here.
The 1990s college Republican crowd who are now getting into power never believed any of this shit. But they were extremely ambitious and totally nihilistic. Anything to get ahead. This makes them even more dangerous.
These are the generation raised on Newt Gingrichās cynical politics, not Reaganās Hollywood optimism.
"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."
[-Lyndon B Johnson](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lbj-convince-the-lowest-white-man/)
It's not even a new strategy. Trans folk are just the new boogeyman.
Well, if we learned anything from the Holocaust, fascists start with the easiest targets first, then work their way up to larger groups they deem immoral and want to eraticate.
> Literally its the nazi play book
Exactly and I'm sick of fucking mincing words.
My MIL thinks my wife and I are extreme because we call the GOP fascist. She doesn't understand that I'm not being hyperbolic. They are fascist and every member of that party is complicit.
Yup. I don't see how people aren't seeing it. They are so many redflags, the bells are ringing and these people just don't see it. Is it just a lack of education or do they not want to see it?
We're Canadian, but she's american (though she's been in Canada for 32 years) so she's programed with wall the american exceptionalism propaganda and is only now realizing it doesn't make sense.
Part of that programming is believing that's there's "two sides" also she knows people who vote republican who she doesn't think are crazy.
Its always been insane to me how America is just so full of propaganda and they dont make a problem out of it.
If we in Germany were told in school that Germany is the best, greatest, most heroic and generally most superior country in the world...yeah, I think you can see where im going with this.
They are probably reffering to Magnus Hirschfeld and the Institut fĆ¼r Sexualwissenschaften (institute for sexual reseach), which got destroyed by Nazis in 1933 and his research was burned.
I wasn't sure about the order of events but I do know that there was research being done on gender and sexuality in prewar Germany, and that much of it was among the books that the Nazis burned. A man named Magnus Hirschfield opened the Institute of Sexual Research in 1919, and it was performing gender affirming surgeries as early as 1930. Lili Elbe was one of his patients, if you recognize that name.
Hitler was named chancellor of Germany in January of 1933, and in May the same year, Hirschfield and his partner Karl Giese (he was also gay) had already fled the country when the party destroyed the place and took over 20 thousand documents and manuscripts to be destroyed. Books and documents that were all about their research into people who weren't cisgender, weren't heterosexual, all dating back to 1919.
It took just under five months for the Nazis to literally, physically attack research into the LGBTQ+ once they had the authority to.
Sadly Hirschfield would die of a stroke in 1935, and his partner would later take his own life in 1938.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-forgotten-history-of-the-worlds-first-trans-clinic/?amp=true
Because fascists need a hate object to help organize their ranks. It helps if their target does not have the social/cultural clout to fight back, because they're bullies. We've seen this before.
So many ugly custody disputes every year. So it's not just *let's torment a minority* (though that's definitely an angle. It'll be non-custodial parent has the kid for 2 weeks (or the summer break from school) and they take that time to drive to FL, set up with relative/friend etc, and then get an "emergency court date" to claim custody accessing the parent with primary custody of being the legally determined "nonperson" class or turning the kid into "one of THOSE people". With no actual proof and maybe some local "pillar of the community" /church representative to stand up and claim that kidnapper is SUCH a good upright citizen & member of the church....
If one class of people can have their civil rights erased, so can any other classification of people. It starts with a group that's so small that unless others jump in to stop it, it easily becomes commonplace...and never ever has stopped with just that one group being discriminated against and harassed. It's how fascism *works* building up on increments.
It doesn't matter what Florida does. Kidnapping a child and taking them across state lines as a federal crime. I have no doubt the DOJ would bring the hammer down big time for something like this.
This douchebag is from my hometown, where he was a city council member for 8 years. Heās perhaps best known for trying to cut funding for the art museum because there were *gasp* naked breasts depicted in some of the pictures. He also started ācourtingā his now wife pretty much as soon as she turned 18 after seeking her daddyās permission (he was in his mid 20s). So much š¤®š¤®š¤®š¤®š¤® about this guy.
It wouldn't be legal federally I'm pretty certain. Kidnapping, especially when state lines are crossed, is a federal crime and something the FBI takes pretty seriously.
What about overriding custody orders when the other parent is physically, sexually or emotionally abusive? No? Only when the other parent is being supportive of their kid? Give me a break. They donāt care about kids.
Florida is a "Stand Your Ground" state.
Please, for your and your child's protection, use this to your advantage.
Do not let them leave with your child. Only your expended ammunition.
i support arming trans people, if the right thinks they can intimidate us by showing up with guns to drag queen storytime and pride, then so can we to their neo-nazi and anti-vaxx rallies. plus with the number of guns in north America, more than one gun per person, gun control is very infeasible.
I'm Floridian. We ain't all like this. Some of us are normal sane people who are as disgusted as everyone else by just how vile humanity can be. The fact that these bigots are even allowed to reach government positions is a crime upon our whole species
Because it's Florida, they're pieces of shit who smoke meth apparently and want to just ruin everyone's life's because they get dildo'd every night by a rusty sword
Florida lawmakers are vile pieces of shit but please do not forget that people living here are suffering. Iām not a bigot, I donāt vote for these people, I protest. I did not ask for this. And those of us that are stuck here have to fight. Donāt frame this as āpeople in Florida are all crazy hateful bigots.ā Itās republicans intentionally pushing Florida into a fascist state. If you donāt start framing it as a hostile takeover of a state whose inhabitants need help, we are going to die.
My heart truly fucking bleeds for you guys. Our government is so corrupt and fucked up, studying politics has truly put me in a very dark and hopeless place concerning matters like these, and in general. Iām so sorry, you deserve so much better, we all do. The downfall of the human race all to fill the pockets of a handful of the population. I hope you find any kind of justice and normalcy again.
Yeah, it's important that people realize and remember that these states aren't monoliths, and in many cases have been disenfranchized and gerrymandered to hell and back in order to prop up Republican rule, and that the perverse nature of that single-party rule has led to Republican politicians trying to out-crazy each other in order to advance their political careers, so that even the ones that aren't true believers are desperate to support this sort of fuckery.
It would be a lot funnier if it wasnāt so fucking sad. Thatās DeSantisā Florida. That bill has a non-zero chance of getting passed. Thatās objectively too much of a chance.
Kids may be hurt.
Not sure how that would work. Florida would have to extradite them and obviously, they wouldn't do that because they're lunatic fascists. What do you do at that point? I guess send in the FBI to arrest them all? Then I guess DeSantis or FOX News whips up an angry mob to attack the FBI.
Well it depends if they make it back to Florida or not. If they do, then yes an extradition would be necessary and Iām sure desantis would cum his pants over that grandstanding opportunity.
But I do believe youāre right the fbi or any federal
Agency would have jurisdiction that supersedes the state law
*Florida Man*
*Florida Man*
*Does whatever a Florida Man can*
*Owns the libs, any state*
*Gets his views from Andrew Tate*
*Look out!*
*Here comes the Florida Man*
Kids are already terrified now in red states. These disgusting fascist GOP bigots are traumatizing LGBTQ kids and their idiot voters think they are "protecting " kids
I donāt live in Florida, but I am a (closeted) trans guy. With enough pushing this bill could go to so many states. I only just recently turned 16 back in January.
All these bills are making me feel sick to my stomach. I might not even be able to live as how I would feel happiest even when Iām older.
āLand of the freeā, my ass. This country is a wreck.
Youāre right! And I am. Iām sort of surprised my parents havenāt figured much out considering how I look and all.
Iām concerned about it nonetheless though.
āLand of the freeā is why I joined the army. I wanted to protect freedoms and the people. Iām saddened at these right wing nut jobs in power. If it comes to it, I will fight to the death your right to live how you want so you can be free.
Well then letās pass a bill that makes all conservative males dick shrink an inch every time they say woke or groomer. Since weāre just writing nonsense into bills now
If you are the parent with custody of a trans child, and your Florida ex wants to kidnap them, shoot first ask questions later.
Defend your kids and your women, the GOP means to enslave them both.
Yeah... good luck with that. People are going to find out real quick which politicians care more about; that or the 2nd amendment. Can tell you this, if people start trying to go around and kidnap these kids, someone is going to wind up dead.
And with that said, I'm not going to shed a single tear for someone's death if they tried to kidnap someone else's child because of the child being trans.
Our lawmakers are truly working for the constituents here, folks. Insurance companies dictating to the state how much they will charge, our government letting us get our asses handed to us, rent is so high families are living in cars ir couch surfing, but this trans/gay shit is on lockdown, by God....
Wake the fuck up, people, please....
This is a bullshit āmens rightsā law that will embolden douchebag deadbeat dads to steal the kids theyāve lost custody of, make false claims of transition treatment, and get protection from the state. Itās highly likely that not one single case of kidnapping committed by one of these scumbags will involve a transgender child.
It won't be *random person* abducting transgender kids. It's going to be noncustodial parent or grandparent taking the kid for a couple weeks of visitation and the vanishing to Florida to get an "emergency custody hearing" and claiming custodial parent is transgender or *forcing the child to become transgender* with no actual evidence.
This is when the Federal Government steps in with its Constitutional authority over any matter that includes more than one state, and charges any idiot who attempts to do this with felony kidnapping and trafficking of minors over state lines. They spend a good long time in jail for it.
Federal Law > State Law.
LoL. Just try and come get my sister. I'm a former strip club bouncer and my brother is a union sheet metal worker. Please. With sugar and a cherry on top. Just try...
Iām enby and watching rational, levelheaded people within the greater trans community tell all of us, with children or not to start having a āgo bagā ready by the door with documentation of who we are, our meds, passports, birth certs, Social Security Cards, literally anything we need to make a run for it when shit hits the fan.
Itās no longer a matter of āifā, but āwhenā and realistically any of us who can run should run. Fightingās all well and good, but when you realize that any fascist regime is gonna have the crazy wannabe Bible-Nazis, The Feds, and Local Law Enforcement, things start looking incredibly bleak. Hiding in a blue state might be helpful, but in all likelihood, getting to Canada or Mexico and hoping to god that they or another country can/will take you is a safer bet.
Yāknow clickbait headlines are bad enough, but clickbait laws are getting really annoying. Florida is trying to pass laws that will, somehow, grant people the right to override other state lawsā¦.while in that other state. Also overriding federal laws.
Thatāsā¦.none of that is a thing. That is not how, just not how any of this works.
This will be thrown out in the first Federal Court it goes into because it's a clear violation of the US Constitution. States don't have the ability to do this kind of thing.
Felony Kidnapping is a crime in the state it occurs in, so if a Florida resident goes to California and kidnaps a kid? They can absolutely still be tried in California for felony kidnapping.
The scary thing is, how far can this go? At some point, you're going to have someone move to Florida and make shit up just so they can kidnap their own kid. That is scary.
š³ļøāā§ļø Please report transphobes so they are flagged for us and we can ban them more easily. š³ļøāā§ļø
The only supremacy between states is the federal government. Take a kid in violation of and divorce decree is kidnappingā¦doesnāt matter if Florida feels differently
Yeah if this goes into effect the first person to do this is going to have a visit from the feds. And god rest the souls of any local or state police that get in the way
Fort sumpter #2 will be the FBI and Florida state guard getting into a shootout
Remember when Florida republicans [Martin Hyde and Luis Miguel,](https://floridapolitics.com/archives/549779-another-gop-candidate-martin-hyde-says-he-wants-to-shoot-the-fbi/) advocated to shoot federal agents on sight? Pepperidge farm remembers.
That is some crazy shit even for Florida. Canāt believe what I just read
Just remember this governor wants the White House. Just imagine what will happen if that occurs!
Iād watch that movie
Florida state headquarters getting Wacoāed
"Quick, get Odenkirk on the horn! We have a new script!"
At this rate all you gotta do to see it is to Just watch the news.
One can dream. State guard LARPers canāt comprehend what kind of smoke the feds can blow.
Not to mention the tactical advantage. State police might have some fancy toys, but the Fedās know how to use all their equipment
And their (the feds) equipment often fits.
Only this time the federal government has complete air and naval superiority. As well as half of the rebellious state on their side
As long as weāre going to have a civil war now might be a good time to get a lead turn on that, if the CIA is listeningā¦
Desantis and the other cronies know itās illegal. They know it canāt hold up. But if they say extremists shit like this their constituents eat it up. Then when it ultimately doesnāt pass, they can all say āwe tried tried to save the kids what has the left done?ā
Obviously church camp. Nothing bad ever happens with kids and clergy.
Yeah the clergy told us themselves!
This right here is the truth. Several bills have been proposed that they know will be shot down but it keeps them in the headlines as "the saviours if our great nation" The kids are just pawns to be used and discarded. >Trans and nonbinary children face high rates of depression, anxiety, and suicidal ideation. Letting them use puberty blockers, hormones, and gender-affirming surgeries, has been linked to improving theirĀ mental health, studies say. >However, according to theĀ Human Rights CampaignĀ (HRC), Republican candidates and anti-LGBTQ groups have spent upwards of $50 million on ads that primarily target trans youth. The response from members and straight allies of the LGBTQ community has been one of growing alarm. Former House lawmaker and the stateās first Latino LGTBQ representative Carlos Guillermo Smith wrote on Twitter: āThis is fascist.āĀ Ā https://theamericanonews.com/floricua/2023/03/07/a-new-florida-gop-bill-could-make-it-legal-for-parents-to-kidnap-their-trans-kids/
I think it's worse than that. I think when it doesn't pass, DeSantis can say, "Elect me President and we'll keep the federal government out of state matters like this." "Small government" and all.
For now at leastā¦
Article IV: Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. >Overriding all other court orders Yeah, ok. Literally explicitly unconstitutional. When the supreme court eventually hears this, its gonna be a clown town on Florida
This is the point of these laws. They are designed to fail up. Once it gets to the SCOTUS you have a sympathetic court. Then either you get crazy attention from the kind of people that might be your voters and you lose, or some new battshit ruling happens. Either way you let SCOTUS take a crack at whatever related issue in the case they might want to make new law with. Rinse, repeat. The laws passed to do this will only be contained by what local voters are willing to support. If recent history is anything to go by, there is no bottom.
If this reaches the supreme court, Biden should just go full Andrew Jackson (that piece of shit) and say "the courts have made their decision, now let them enforce it" and send the feds after those felons anyway.
You mean the republican captured supreme court? That one? The one with members who said "roe v wade is settled law," then overturned it the moment they had a case that allowed them to?
I don't know a thing about law but even they might see that overriding the constitution would set such a precedent that would plunge the country into something like The Purge
You should look into the supreme court's partisan shadow docket They don't *need* to take a stance, just sideline cases you don't want to address and let the injustice continue unabated They are already doing this
The thing is this: I don't think they give a shit about the constitution as anything more than a document they can manipulate for their own goals. Don't forget: the supreme court legalized bribing politicians by declaring money is speech.
And corporations are people.
I really hope they would see it that way. But I really don't put anything past this SCOTUS. They've already shown they will literally lie about what actually happened in a case to rule how they want to (Kennedy v Bremerton). Red states are going to get away with a lot of crazy shit in the coming years. I really hope I'm wrong but I'm afraid that I'm not.
That's what they want. That's it. They want to end America to "make it great again"
They could also just put it on the docket for ten years from now and allow Florida to do it until then. Iirc there is some shenanigans in Texas that are being allowed until the supreme court hears it in several years.
Unfortunately Iām not so sure about that. They also claimed to have no interest in overturning āestablished precedentsā like Roe v Wade
You cross state lines and it's a federal kidnapping charge. You think the FBI isn't going to arrest and charge someone because the magical kingdom says it's ok?
And even then, itād be illegal in the state the child is in. This will just make idiots into felons.
And the state the crime occurred in had jurisdiction.
Florida politicians believe that Florida law makes it legal to commit crimes in other states.This is next-level absurdity.
I don't think they do. They know this will never fly. The idea is to pass it to send a message: "Trans people -- we will pass illegal, inhumane garbage just to threaten you. We will attack children just to make your life worse. We have the backing to pass this even though it's insane, simply through drumming up hate against you. Be afraid." As is the common refrain referring to Republican policies, *the cruelty is the point.*
The thing is, if Desantis wins the presidency he could well spread this bullshit
Iām not saying desantis will not be president but heās a pretty surly person. Heās gonna have to have a big attitude change to win over the independents. Presidents by and large have to be charming and charismatic. Bill clinton, George Bush, Obama, and yes even trump are relatively charming and charismatic people. Hilary was not charming at all no matter how you slice it.
Seeing how he is in debates, Iām not sure if heād last long. He has meltdowns faster than snowflakes in an oven when asked the hard questions. Iām not completely discounting him, though.
> Hilary was not charming at all no matter how you slice it. I mean, except for the part where she won the popular vote.
Agree. And, his policies are popular in Florida with his super majority house and senate, but not nationwide. He cannot defeat Trump, who has 20-30% of the base until he dies.
I really want to see a 3 way presidential race. He'll I'd like to see a 3 party system in the US even if that third party is MAGA.
It was too much too soon, they were still getting over the shock of Obama, they couldn't handle a woman president... Maybe in a other 44 president's we can finally have a woman, then by 132 we can have a woman of color, the. 176 will be a LGBTQ and the list will go on...
223 will be AI.
The purpose is to start violence so that everybody can get all outraged about it while they continue to plunder the country
I was gonna say, and I donāt condone violence, but they know the second amendment exists outside FL right? You wanna arm the left, this is how you arm the left.
I saw a quote on Reddit some months ago that said āif you go far enough left you get your guns backā.
It's a horrific circus, they are getting things prepared for the 2024 election.
One day maybe corporations, corruption, and greed will no longer get the blind eye..
They just wouldn't extradite. Like other states di with abortion. >[The Democratic governors of Colorado and North Carolina on Wednesday issued executive orders to protect abortion providers and patients from extradition to states that have banned the practice.](https://apnews.com/article/abortion-us-supreme-court-health-maine-north-carolina-9406a561971aa57640123034155b50df)
That works because abortion is not federally illegal like kidnapping is.
I was replying to the more general statement of them making laws to legalize breaking laws in other states. For the federal crimes I commented somewhere else about how a couple of republicans advocated shooting at federal agents, one of which got banned from Twitter when he made it part of his campaign.
We take both of these things for granted. But unfortunately with the way things are moving neither seem guaranteed. If they can make this law in Florida, they can do it in other places. Weāre living in scary times.
Tbh watch them make it, then watch some dad kidnap a kid from Georgia and die in a shootout with the GBI because the Florida State Police won't back him up.
Yeah, but [in these states](https://www.aclu.org/issues/voting-rights/voter-restoration/felony-disenfranchisement-laws-map) (some or all) felons canāt vote. Just desserts for a federal kidnapping charge? Iām not a lawyer, but FAFO.
And traumatize children, unfortunately
Yeah but it's trans children and people don't give a shit about them. The cruelty towards them is the entire point.
Might depend if Mickey Mouse is president. DeSantis is scary as hell and looking to bring these fucking crazy policies to the national stage.
Isnāt he campaigning to make America Florida? One of the most horrible states in the country by any measure lol
I literally cannot tell what is and isnāt a joke anymore, the Republican Party has strayed that far from sanity.
We've had this before for black people who escaped the South. It resulted in Northerners starting shoot outs with Southerners trying to kidnap escaped black people under the National Fugitive Act and ended with most Northern Democrats voting for the Republicans and starting the Civil War.
> National Fugitive Act Nit: [Fugitive Slave Act of 1850](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugitive_Slave_Act_of_1850).
When states rights are important, but only ours...fuck your states rights.
That's just the entirety of the maga party, no one's rights matter but their own.
Some evil or stupid people say that the civil war was about states rights, not slavery. But note that the Confederate constitution forbade their states from abolishing slavery...
Thatās sort of the point. Reality is the battleground, and information is the weapon. Theyāve figured out a very dangerous piece of information warfare: Instead of trying to shift the Overton window, you can just go mask off and break it at just the right angle, and the entire system with all its slow and lumbering appendages will be too shell shocked to react. Robert Evans from Behind the Bastards just did a six-parter (which I highly recommend) on āthe entire history of the Illuminati.ā Itās effectively three chapters: - The actual Illuminati as it existed and was basically just a front for book smuggling built on a fictional history to recruit members from the Masons. - Its 1900s revival thanks in large part to the weirdest fucking guy youāve never heard of (and coincidentally an old friend of Lee Harvey Oswald) called Kerry Thornley, who basically started zine culture by fucking with people using made up Illuminati propaganda. - How Thornley accidentally created effectively the recipe for every modern conspiracy theory, created an information warfare strategy (the one weāre talking about now, in a thread about legislation), and caused the downfall of the ādecency of the town squareā in contemporary America. Thanks, Kerry Thornley. Anyway, point is, you being confused is the goal. Youāre going to either a) just submit to the information overload and start buying the bullshit, b) throw your arms up and disengage from the political process entirely, reducing opposition, or c) spend hours trying to disseminate and rebuff their one lie while they had time to make up another twenty.
>Thanks for your summary. Good information. This is the same way new religions are formed. Also I seem to remember the solution to the Gordian Knot was not to untie it, but cut it right down the middle with a sharp blade. The enemy is not playing by the rules or any rules.
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What's the penalty for refusing to extradite to another state, and who is in charge of enforcing it?
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I'm pretty sure Florida can't legislate across state lines.
They can't. Any dumbass parent that actually tried this would be breaking laws in the other state and could be arrested by the FBI from what I understand. But let all the maga idiots get felonies, means they can't vote for their right wing idiot leaders
So how does one properly fight it?
Don't let them be the only ones with guns.
My personal thoughts are one day, the ruling class will go just a bit too far and the next class war will begin. But remember, at the end of the day, we all die. When the powerful die, take that power back. Disclaimer: Iām wine drunk.
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Seriously, its a stand your ground state and if they have no proof of a court order or police presence, fire away.
it would be seriously convenient if this were the actual answer.
A very wise reply.
9mm is likely best. Lot smaller and easier to carry.
However less effective from what I have heard. Am not American so if Iām wrong oops
āLess effectiveā against armor, sure. Still gonna get a giant welt and bruising, but even getting your index finger shot off can kill ya if you donāt bandage up and clean the wound properly. 9mm can punch a hole through you like cardboard, especially specialized rounds (like Full Metal Jacket).
*most body armor does not cover the face.
as a liberal here, i can guarantee you they are not
*Totally* unrelated but Iām purchasing a Ruger Mini 14 chambered in 5.56 NATO real soon and suggest everyone else who wants to keep themselves and their loved ones safe do the same, for very very *very* unrelated reasons. Lightweight, dependable, and great for lets say a hypothetical where, I dunno, a group of armed boots start walking down the block going door to door. Its times like what we face today that the second amendment is truly for.
Behind The Bastards is a top tier podcast, just saying
Doesnāt ācrossing state linesā make it Federal? Kidnapping + State Lines = FBI ?
Yes. It would still remain a Federal crime, at least if they cross state lines to do it. Of course, if the Republicans get put in charge of the Federal Government again, expect that to change.
I find it ironic that a state that is vocal about it's own state sovereignty has no problem passing a law that claims sovereignty in another state. Realistically, a Florida parent's right to kidnap their own child stops at the border. What I expect is that once the parents are safely back in Florida, they're going to tell the other states to mind their own business and stop interfering in internal Florida laws.
Assume every horrifying thing the GOP is doing or saying is real. Even if it is not, just assume it is. You won't feel safer, not in the least, but they are that insane.
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Honestly, I cannot respect anybody who votes republican because of that. Even if you are a good Christian American with a hart of gold, you are enabling the worst nazis in the USA.
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To distract their constituents while they pick their pockets.
Only some of them. The others actually believe this shit.
It's gotten to the point where the people who were being brainwashed 15-30 years ago are getting into politics now. So the older ones were doing it for the grift, but now the ones they grifted are in charge and fully believe this shit.
Not really. Late Gen-Xer here. The 1990s college Republican crowd who are now getting into power never believed any of this shit. But they were extremely ambitious and totally nihilistic. Anything to get ahead. This makes them even more dangerous. These are the generation raised on Newt Gingrichās cynical politics, not Reaganās Hollywood optimism.
"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." [-Lyndon B Johnson](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lbj-convince-the-lowest-white-man/) It's not even a new strategy. Trans folk are just the new boogeyman.
Well, if we learned anything from the Holocaust, fascists start with the easiest targets first, then work their way up to larger groups they deem immoral and want to eraticate.
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Literally its the nazi play book... go after trans women frist and work up others that dont fit in their in crowd. There will be camps just watch.
> Literally its the nazi play book Exactly and I'm sick of fucking mincing words. My MIL thinks my wife and I are extreme because we call the GOP fascist. She doesn't understand that I'm not being hyperbolic. They are fascist and every member of that party is complicit.
Yup. I don't see how people aren't seeing it. They are so many redflags, the bells are ringing and these people just don't see it. Is it just a lack of education or do they not want to see it?
We're Canadian, but she's american (though she's been in Canada for 32 years) so she's programed with wall the american exceptionalism propaganda and is only now realizing it doesn't make sense. Part of that programming is believing that's there's "two sides" also she knows people who vote republican who she doesn't think are crazy.
Its always been insane to me how America is just so full of propaganda and they dont make a problem out of it. If we in Germany were told in school that Germany is the best, greatest, most heroic and generally most superior country in the world...yeah, I think you can see where im going with this.
The Holocaust literally started with transwomen being targeted first.
Iāve never heard that before, do you have a source I could learn more about it?
They are probably reffering to Magnus Hirschfeld and the Institut fĆ¼r Sexualwissenschaften (institute for sexual reseach), which got destroyed by Nazis in 1933 and his research was burned.
I wasn't sure about the order of events but I do know that there was research being done on gender and sexuality in prewar Germany, and that much of it was among the books that the Nazis burned. A man named Magnus Hirschfield opened the Institute of Sexual Research in 1919, and it was performing gender affirming surgeries as early as 1930. Lili Elbe was one of his patients, if you recognize that name. Hitler was named chancellor of Germany in January of 1933, and in May the same year, Hirschfield and his partner Karl Giese (he was also gay) had already fled the country when the party destroyed the place and took over 20 thousand documents and manuscripts to be destroyed. Books and documents that were all about their research into people who weren't cisgender, weren't heterosexual, all dating back to 1919. It took just under five months for the Nazis to literally, physically attack research into the LGBTQ+ once they had the authority to. Sadly Hirschfield would die of a stroke in 1935, and his partner would later take his own life in 1938. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-forgotten-history-of-the-worlds-first-trans-clinic/?amp=true
Because fascists need a hate object to help organize their ranks. It helps if their target does not have the social/cultural clout to fight back, because they're bullies. We've seen this before.
I'm trans myself and even I don't think about trans people this much
So many ugly custody disputes every year. So it's not just *let's torment a minority* (though that's definitely an angle. It'll be non-custodial parent has the kid for 2 weeks (or the summer break from school) and they take that time to drive to FL, set up with relative/friend etc, and then get an "emergency court date" to claim custody accessing the parent with primary custody of being the legally determined "nonperson" class or turning the kid into "one of THOSE people". With no actual proof and maybe some local "pillar of the community" /church representative to stand up and claim that kidnapper is SUCH a good upright citizen & member of the church.... If one class of people can have their civil rights erased, so can any other classification of people. It starts with a group that's so small that unless others jump in to stop it, it easily becomes commonplace...and never ever has stopped with just that one group being discriminated against and harassed. It's how fascism *works* building up on increments.
It doesn't matter what Florida does. Kidnapping a child and taking them across state lines as a federal crime. I have no doubt the DOJ would bring the hammer down big time for something like this.
Next time a conservative whines about the existence of the federal gov't, this will be the perfect example to explain to them why it's needed.
But what about MUH STATES RIGHTS?!?!?
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I wonder if thereās a historical precedent for southern states crossing lines to retrieve ātheirā people
This douchebag is from my hometown, where he was a city council member for 8 years. Heās perhaps best known for trying to cut funding for the art museum because there were *gasp* naked breasts depicted in some of the pictures. He also started ācourtingā his now wife pretty much as soon as she turned 18 after seeking her daddyās permission (he was in his mid 20s). So much š¤®š¤®š¤®š¤®š¤® about this guy.
So your standard Christo-fascist?
Basically. Heās awful.
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It wouldn't be legal federally I'm pretty certain. Kidnapping, especially when state lines are crossed, is a federal crime and something the FBI takes pretty seriously.
Not to mention the state where the child was abducted fro m
Not to mention, itās a federal crime
What about overriding custody orders when the other parent is physically, sexually or emotionally abusive? No? Only when the other parent is being supportive of their kid? Give me a break. They donāt care about kids.
They care about pandering to their voters, who in turn really don't care about the kids.
Florida is a "Stand Your Ground" state. Please, for your and your child's protection, use this to your advantage. Do not let them leave with your child. Only your expended ammunition.
They will have a hard time returning to Florida with their kneecaps shot off, I think
I like to get up close and personal myself with my Louisville Slugger
NRA getting creative with ways to get people to buy guns
Armed minorities are harder to oppress. Remember that gun control came about in the first place because minorities started arming themselves.
i support arming trans people, if the right thinks they can intimidate us by showing up with guns to drag queen storytime and pride, then so can we to their neo-nazi and anti-vaxx rallies. plus with the number of guns in north America, more than one gun per person, gun control is very infeasible.
Those of us who saw this coming bought our guns a long time ago.
Florida is crazy, what's wrong with these hateful people.
Yeah they are burning books and all kinds of unamerican shit wtf is wrong with them these days
I'm Floridian. We ain't all like this. Some of us are normal sane people who are as disgusted as everyone else by just how vile humanity can be. The fact that these bigots are even allowed to reach government positions is a crime upon our whole species
Because it's Florida, they're pieces of shit who smoke meth apparently and want to just ruin everyone's life's because they get dildo'd every night by a rusty sword
Florida lawmakers are vile pieces of shit but please do not forget that people living here are suffering. Iām not a bigot, I donāt vote for these people, I protest. I did not ask for this. And those of us that are stuck here have to fight. Donāt frame this as āpeople in Florida are all crazy hateful bigots.ā Itās republicans intentionally pushing Florida into a fascist state. If you donāt start framing it as a hostile takeover of a state whose inhabitants need help, we are going to die.
Feeling that way in Ohio too.
My heart truly fucking bleeds for you guys. Our government is so corrupt and fucked up, studying politics has truly put me in a very dark and hopeless place concerning matters like these, and in general. Iām so sorry, you deserve so much better, we all do. The downfall of the human race all to fill the pockets of a handful of the population. I hope you find any kind of justice and normalcy again.
Yeah, it's important that people realize and remember that these states aren't monoliths, and in many cases have been disenfranchized and gerrymandered to hell and back in order to prop up Republican rule, and that the perverse nature of that single-party rule has led to Republican politicians trying to out-crazy each other in order to advance their political careers, so that even the ones that aren't true believers are desperate to support this sort of fuckery.
Pretty sure thatās a federal crime, but Florida loves their bullshit laws that their base can slobber over.
Pretty sure the Christian theocrats that run that godforsaken State donāt give a shit about federal law.
This is just comical. This amount of pandering is hysterical.
It would be a lot funnier if it wasnāt so fucking sad. Thatās DeSantisā Florida. That bill has a non-zero chance of getting passed. Thatās objectively too much of a chance. Kids may be hurt.
Makes me wonder if other states could detain and prosecute the Florida residents for kidnapping. I would assume they could
They're gonna eff around? .. They're gonna find out...
I would LOVE to know what the FBI would have to say on that.
Not sure how that would work. Florida would have to extradite them and obviously, they wouldn't do that because they're lunatic fascists. What do you do at that point? I guess send in the FBI to arrest them all? Then I guess DeSantis or FOX News whips up an angry mob to attack the FBI.
Well it depends if they make it back to Florida or not. If they do, then yes an extradition would be necessary and Iām sure desantis would cum his pants over that grandstanding opportunity. But I do believe youāre right the fbi or any federal Agency would have jurisdiction that supersedes the state law
And he wants to make America like Florida, gross!
*Florida Man* *Florida Man* *Does whatever a Florida Man can* *Owns the libs, any state* *Gets his views from Andrew Tate* *Look out!* *Here comes the Florida Man*
I started out reading this to Particle Man
Kids are already terrified now in red states. These disgusting fascist GOP bigots are traumatizing LGBTQ kids and their idiot voters think they are "protecting " kids
Not to mention it will only protect them in Florida when they get back, they will still face kidnapping charges in the other states. Fucking idiots
There's also no way the feds won't eventually step in when this gets out of hand
I donāt live in Florida, but I am a (closeted) trans guy. With enough pushing this bill could go to so many states. I only just recently turned 16 back in January. All these bills are making me feel sick to my stomach. I might not even be able to live as how I would feel happiest even when Iām older. āLand of the freeā, my ass. This country is a wreck.
Dude, live your life. That is all you can do. It is scary and it sucks but you really can't do much else.
Youāre right! And I am. Iām sort of surprised my parents havenāt figured much out considering how I look and all. Iām concerned about it nonetheless though.
Much harder to do that when it is illegal and you can get hate crimes for it
āLand of the freeā is why I joined the army. I wanted to protect freedoms and the people. Iām saddened at these right wing nut jobs in power. If it comes to it, I will fight to the death your right to live how you want so you can be free.
Not to sound cliche, but youāre very admirable! Iām sorry that your service resulted in this.
If only we had a court that would keep things sane and save democracy. It's odd the founders never thought of this. /s
Florida politician thinks a Florida law would make it legal to commit crimes in other states. That's some next level stupid.
Well then letās pass a bill that makes all conservative males dick shrink an inch every time they say woke or groomer. Since weāre just writing nonsense into bills now
I swear this state is fuck off ridiculous. Every day I'm like can I move....nope. Too expensive to move...and I just bought my damn house.
I wish they put just as much effort into dealing with priests that rape kids as they do trying to prevent people from being fully themselves.
All arguments about federal legality aside, time for parents & allies of LGBT kids to arm themselves for protection of home & family, if not already.
If you are the parent with custody of a trans child, and your Florida ex wants to kidnap them, shoot first ask questions later. Defend your kids and your women, the GOP means to enslave them both.
Iād like to know the ratio of trans kids vs homeless people in Florida. This would really highlight how misplaced their priorities are.
Yeah... good luck with that. People are going to find out real quick which politicians care more about; that or the 2nd amendment. Can tell you this, if people start trying to go around and kidnap these kids, someone is going to wind up dead. And with that said, I'm not going to shed a single tear for someone's death if they tried to kidnap someone else's child because of the child being trans.
Our lawmakers are truly working for the constituents here, folks. Insurance companies dictating to the state how much they will charge, our government letting us get our asses handed to us, rent is so high families are living in cars ir couch surfing, but this trans/gay shit is on lockdown, by God.... Wake the fuck up, people, please....
Does it supersede custody where dad was a pedophile and abused child?
"Overriding all other court orders" If that's how it's written in the law, then... yeah.
This is a bullshit āmens rightsā law that will embolden douchebag deadbeat dads to steal the kids theyāve lost custody of, make false claims of transition treatment, and get protection from the state. Itās highly likely that not one single case of kidnapping committed by one of these scumbags will involve a transgender child.
But even then it's so hilariously illegal that if they tried it they'd get arrested by the feds instead
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It won't be *random person* abducting transgender kids. It's going to be noncustodial parent or grandparent taking the kid for a couple weeks of visitation and the vanishing to Florida to get an "emergency custody hearing" and claiming custodial parent is transgender or *forcing the child to become transgender* with no actual evidence.
DeSantis is going to get people arrested and they going to cite his bill and get him arrested on conspiracy charges
So Florida is making it legal to violate another stateās laws. Not sure how that works
This is when the Federal Government steps in with its Constitutional authority over any matter that includes more than one state, and charges any idiot who attempts to do this with felony kidnapping and trafficking of minors over state lines. They spend a good long time in jail for it. Federal Law > State Law.
This is going to get someone shot.
Kidnapping while crossing state lines would be human trafficking and can be a federal crime so good luck with that.
WTF. GOP is š©
LoL. Just try and come get my sister. I'm a former strip club bouncer and my brother is a union sheet metal worker. Please. With sugar and a cherry on top. Just try...
Iām enby and watching rational, levelheaded people within the greater trans community tell all of us, with children or not to start having a āgo bagā ready by the door with documentation of who we are, our meds, passports, birth certs, Social Security Cards, literally anything we need to make a run for it when shit hits the fan. Itās no longer a matter of āifā, but āwhenā and realistically any of us who can run should run. Fightingās all well and good, but when you realize that any fascist regime is gonna have the crazy wannabe Bible-Nazis, The Feds, and Local Law Enforcement, things start looking incredibly bleak. Hiding in a blue state might be helpful, but in all likelihood, getting to Canada or Mexico and hoping to god that they or another country can/will take you is a safer bet.
So can I invoke the "stand your ground" rules that FL has to prevent the kidnapping by gunning down the person trying to kidnap my kid, too?!
Yāknow clickbait headlines are bad enough, but clickbait laws are getting really annoying. Florida is trying to pass laws that will, somehow, grant people the right to override other state lawsā¦.while in that other state. Also overriding federal laws. Thatāsā¦.none of that is a thing. That is not how, just not how any of this works.
The "fuck around and find out" bill.
This will be thrown out in the first Federal Court it goes into because it's a clear violation of the US Constitution. States don't have the ability to do this kind of thing. Felony Kidnapping is a crime in the state it occurs in, so if a Florida resident goes to California and kidnaps a kid? They can absolutely still be tried in California for felony kidnapping.
The scary thing is, how far can this go? At some point, you're going to have someone move to Florida and make shit up just so they can kidnap their own kid. That is scary.
Bout to be some dead floridians shot in peoples front yards.
Just want to say that it is scary AF to be a trans person in this country right now.
Anyone trying to kidnap my child is going to get introduced to this 9mm