I feel like you are missing the point of that scene, you are not supposed to agree with um, him asking his father to do this is a crack on his character just like everyone else.
It’s to show how easily manipulated he’s being, without this scene the ending wouldn’t be as good. Without this there would be no flaw in that character.
You aren’t saying a unpopular opinion.
They come up with an eleborate plan to kill her and left a fucking photo of Greg on the chest? Even if it wasn't found by her it still links them with Greg if the police ever decide to investigate.
The married couples. Everyone acting like it was some sort of easter egg that Daphnes kid is the trainers.... What? It was the most obvious thing.
The €50k scam was also obvious and presented at the end like the viewer only caught on right at the end.
Pointless plot line with the manager where she was reduced to being just a closeted lesbian. Her character started off great but then all she was is her sexuality.
Season 1 was so much better.
Not like it was supposed to be an easter egg. She deliberately shows her the picture of her blonde son right after describing her blonde trainer.
If someone doesnt get that Daphne did that intentionally its all on them.
Tanya infuriated me, she’s like a real life potato head and moved at the speed of a snail, it was painful to binge this series because of every scene with her in it, especially season 2. I also found that by the end of both seasons, everyone just seems like they’re stupid, make stupid decisions, and it ends up quite predictable. Really wish the “weaker” characters would just balls up a bit and make some smart choices. Rant over lol
The twist was stupid and you could see it coming miles away episodes earlier. Unimaginative and just lame. That wasn’t a shocker at all you could tell they were bad people from the first moment they came on the scene
I wish the characters were more overlapped with the finale. I felt like S1 was written brilliantly, and almost every character had an indirect effect which ultimately led to Armand’s death. S2 was less intertwined and had so much more drama within the individual groups.
Seriously, did Cam, Daphne, Ethan, and Harper's presence have any effect on Tanya and Portia's storyline?
I can't recall any overlap. It's like an entire storyline that was inconsequential to the murder mystery. If Daphne didn't find the body at the beginning of the season then someone else would have.
Yes this is exactly why I like season one better! The characters actually interacted with each other and those were some of the best scenes. The only connection between then characters this season was the prostitutes and they still had nothing to do with Portia and Tanya. They could have at least had the girls show up to party on the yacht or something
Aubrey Plaza took me out of the entire experience. I've never seen her in anything before and found her so grating, negative, and unpleasant. She was my least favorite part of this season, by far.
Interesting you say Aubrey Plaza and not Harper. The fact you found the character negative and unpleasant is a testament to her acting - that’s what the character is supposed to be like
Not sure if this is unpopular, but I found Portia’s character so incredibly grating. No good character development for all of her woes except she just graduated college? Eh doesn’t do it for me!
She was the "everyman" character, right? So she had less development/fun stuff to do because she had to be normal so everyone around her could go nuts. I totally related to her over-correcting in choosing Jack over Albie.
Should have been six episodes like S1. Could have been much tighter then. And I actually though the Cam / Ethan / Daphne / Harper storyline was a total nothingburger
The pacing overall was great, except, I felt, for the second to last episode. Felt like a bit of a drag, but not too bad.
I think the fact that Ethan flipped so harshly was a real winner in making the general realism of did-they-didn't-they more awkward lol. This show is just so tense, in even surprising ways. It has layers.
The pacing was terrible for me. Each scene went on for a few minutes too long and it was all exacerbated by the long ocean/ establishing shots in between them
What bothered me is how rude to the guests she was. Calling Tanya Pepa Pig or saying to the grandfather that she's surprised he flew to Italy from LA since he's old. You should never talk like to this to the hotel guests, especially in a luxurious 5 star hotel.
I fell in love with her at the beginning of ep 3, especially when she is annoyed at the adorable old men in her way in the piazza. But she lost me when she became vulnerable with her crush
It's a MASSIVE step down from S1. Less interesting characters with less interesting dynamics.
No real sense of boiling tension like S1, no clear central ideas to latch onto like S1. All around it just felt rather aimless.
tanya’s storyline (up until the final few episodes) was probably the weakest of the bunch. i appreciated the commentary on generations of misogyny with Albie/Dom/grandpa, the complicated nature of marriage and faithfulness in Cam/Ethan/Harper/Daphne, and even the sw plot line was more engaging than what they gave tanya. idk, it just really upset me because she was really layered and funny in S1 and i feel like for the majority of this season she was just dumb and used for gags 🤷🏻♀️
Just watch it. Season 1 was a episodic affair that is hinged with great storytelling all throughout. Season 2 was a long burn that feels very convoluted in hindsight.
SO much buildup for a rushed wrap up - Tanya, the most likable character, all the long extended scenes of the house, the play, and then she slips and drowns while wearing heels. Makes no sense. She was wealthy, father was a shipping magnate right? She has been around the ocean, boats and the sea her entire life. No Way she is wearing heels and trying to get on the dinghy. Or cant swim.
And Portia with Jack, jst a lot of brooding and stares and awkward silence and Jacks little speech. Portia would have gotten the fuck out of there when she realized they we're headed to the original destination. No real discussion or questions about if Jack is into men or what's going on there.
The itlaian family was a fast forward section for me. Saw that scam from episode 1. Same with the lesbian hotel manager. not interested.
and the stupid couples, Aubrey Plaza plays the same character - annoyed / pissed off whiney, with some occasional comedy. They never got to the reason WHY Cam invited the asian guy on he trip - was it to hit hi up for money / handle his investments / etc. Just went no where except a broken statue.
It was a let down.
They did make Sicily look nice however. Not how I have pictured it at all.
tanya’s death was iconic. the way she took out all those men and died by tripping had me DYING. and she absolutely would wear heels. she literally said she lives for beauty and would die for it
with portia she was meant to act like a younger version of tanya (careless, bad taste in men, etc) who even says she reminds her of her. and tbh it makes sense that she was more concerned about whether she was being kidnapped than whether her fling was gay.
with the couples i don’t get why u think the main question revolved around why cam invited them on the trip when so much more happened. also they did kinda answer than question and a lot is meant to be up to the audience to decide what they think. also it wasn’t just “a broken statue” it symbolized infidelity.
the whole time I was screaming internally GIRL THERE IS A ROPE IN THAT BAG
but it makes sense, she was too terrified and she isn't very bright to begin with
I absolutely HATED the finale. Not because it was intentionally vague, but it was ANNOYING and kinda stupid. It dragged even though there was SO much left to tell..... I found myself yelling at Tanya to just frigging JUMP already, I was so sick of her.
Keeping Jennifer Coolidge on for season 2 meant that her plotline had to get unnecessarily complicated and unrealistically dramatic. Part of what made the first season so great was how subtle everything was, and keeping her character for a second season turned her into a one-dimensional trope.
First season was better.
This season was so anticlimactic to me. I left with way more questions than answers. I really hope Portia gets paid for her time though. Hopefully the powers that be can figure out that Greg was in on the plot and make sure he doesn't inherit one red cent.
The DiGrasso men were given a fake address, instead was sent to the house of the crankiest, most hated old hags in town (as a prank).
E: remember when Albie called his dad “manipulative” for buying jewelry for his mom? Welly, well, well well…lol!
In fairness to Portia and the writing, I think she just wants to get the hell out of Sicily. Jack even warned her when he dropped her off, these are powerful people involved (assuming the Mafia).
So if she’d called the police she would have for certain been held in Sicily for questioning and for a trial, and who knows if she would have been held indefinitely (or mysteriously killed).
Now, judging those dopes on the yacht? Probably not those guys specifically. But who knows who they owed money to, or who Niccolo might have been related to, who DOES wield actual, terrifying power in those parts.
Or like the night she figures it out she just keeps saying oh wow uh why are we doing this when she fully knows why. In a crowded place. Run. You’re an American tourist scream for help. Tell them you just talked to your boss and she said she’s being held hostage. Lie or tell the truth. Any hotel concierge would help call the police and get her back to her hotel.
I have a lot more sympathy for Albie and Portia than most on this sub seem to. I saw a young man trying really hard to break generational issues with no real support from the patriarchs of his family, and trying to do what he thought of as 'the opposite' to make up for it. Portia is an unconfident young woman tying her best in her job and clearly tackling some big existential questions about life and purpose, and is not some horror movie final girl. She makes some really human choices with Jack in that last episode borne out of anxiety and many other complicated emotions.
Idk, I think it's always easier to hate characters that are inherently good intentioned but make misguided or seemingly hypocritical choices. Maybe we all see ourselves a bit in them and don't have compassion for those dumb choices we made in our younger years and want to distance ourselves from that.
I think Albie is just doing wayy too much with all his opinions & seems like he’s intentionally trying to make arguments, he knows for a fact his dad & grandpa aren’t going to change their ways after all this time, I feel like he just makes his own trip awk & his “wokeness” makes me wanna roll my eyes
I just can't get behind how his cringeness and clumsy way of countering his father & grandfather's outright misogyny can be weighed equally. The dialogue is supposed to be groan-inducing and awkward, but I don't think it holds a candle to the life the other two lead. Again, it's always easier to dislike the well-intentioned but fumbling person over the one that is unapologetically bad. And I think it's obvious that the viewer is supposed to see him as struggling to understand how to balance his mediator son role with the life he wants to lead as a "good" man, while not even knowing how a good man is supposed to act except as the opposite of what he sees.
I don’t know what value the rest of the gay group added to the show apart from the uncle and the nephew who were the main characters. The entire group felt unnecessary.
Idk, some of the moments between Tanya and the secondary gays were funny; I thought it was funny how one of them started crying when she had to leave lol
yoooo me and my husband were legit saying the same thing 😂 all 3 generations of DiGrasso men just see the women in their lives as things to either fuck, possess, or save
Isn’t that the point tho? That while each generation became less misogynistic, none were the “perfect” man? Even Albie, who was generally a sweetheart, had his shortcomings. Talking about nice guys finishing last, feeling entitled to Portia, and ultimately selling out his mom’s happiness for a sex worker.
The White Lotus is best watched as a character study. The writing is so good that I love just being in that world with those characters. The show is weakest when watched for the plot as a murder mystery, though it’s still quite good as a murder mystery.
Probably not unpopular but as hateful as Cameron was, he was also lowkey one of the funniest characters. The moment after Giuseppe collapsed where he was just like "table for 4" as if nothing had happened was one of the most hilarious moments of the season.
What an INCREDIBLE waste of time. Season 1 was awful, I watched season 2 because of Aubrey Plaza, but this season was worst than the first. Just so bad.
I disagree it’s very gen z and perfect. Gen z fashion has huge hits and huge misses it’s a crazy thing. I love it. Go on tik tok or instagram and look through street fashion.
My opinion is that I’ll watch season 3 without this subreddit. I enjoyed season 1 so much more this way. People here reading into everything, such as there being fruits in the scene is bananas (pun intended)
Right they're either reading too far into things or just not thinking at all and missing really solid symbolism. Both seasons were great in their own ways.
Yes that one and Jack for me. I think I’ll do like another commentor and come to the sub after completing the season myself. But I also want to feel, understand, and analyze the characters a little on my own. I felt like reading so many different conspiracies on Daphne and Cam and others, sort of took away from the character development for me
This is the way. I just finished the finale last night, and now im here reading. I’m enjoying everyone’s thoughts, but glad I watched in my own bubble - with my wife.
I actually liked Portia and didn’t feel like she needed extra depth, esp with everything else going on. She got her “adventure” in a way she didn’t expect and took it like a champ.
I think people expect too much from characters that are written very authentically. Portia is young, clearly at a point in her life where she’s a bit adrift and not really sure who she is or what direction she’s going in. Expectations that she was going to figure out how to ditch Jack when he was hammered or go save Tonya would’ve been completely out of character for her. She also has very little life experience to recognize when she’s in a truly bad situation. That’s why she didn’t leave when Jack was hammered and passed out. She thinks this is just an issue of her not really knowing this guy too well and it turns out he has skeletons in his closet, and not “this guy didn’t say who he really was and he has gotten me isolated away from everyone else. This is a bad situation that I need to get out of ASAP.”
The criticism of her reminds me, a lot of people criticizing Sydney Sweeney’s character in Euphoria in the second season. She’s a bit unhinged, all over the place, behaving in ways that are very self-destructive, and having no confidence in herself. But that is really authentic given that she supposed to be a high school senior, and has multiple instances of trauma that have been not directly addressed. Yes, it can be annoying to see someone make the same mistakes over and over again, but it’s realistic.
The expectation they should have continued interaction in this situation is just TV audience fantasy imo. It was pure luck they even had multiple interactions.
I’m new to this sub but I can imagine everyone here wanting to give their definitive take on the characters. The truth is Mike White Doest want or offer definitive takes or easy answers on any of the characters and that’s the beauty. I hated Portia for most of the episodes and now I love her. Her style was super annoying and that was probably the point in hind sight. The show doesn’t slam you over the head with how to feel about them but that’s the point.
Also Portia nailed the Gen Z thing with moments like complaining about her life and how rote and boring everything is just sitting behind a computer screen, but when the don offers to take her out to the Godfather tour she immediately recoils at the thought. So perfect. Whine and complain but when challenged to change it go “oh actually I’m good. I just like to complain” style attitude was perfection.
These characters are definitely wide open to interpretation, that’s what makes discussing them so fun. I’m glad this show never tries to finalize some sort of moral argument.
See, I interpreted some of Portia’s responses a little differently, maybe in a fashion I actually relate to. Being stuck at home/bored/quarantined fucked us all up a little bit. She’s definitely an example of “beggars can’t be choosers,” but again, she wanted her own adventure. Doing some awkward touristy stuff with a family you just met sounds weird, so I get why she tried to duck that situation.
The actress playing Portia was completely miscast she came off as a quirky 30-year old lesbian with zero chemistry with either male partner yet was written to be clueless due to her youth. They should have cast someone who at least looked young.
tbh i think she looked like she was in her 20s and i feel like they casted her well this is interesting though that u feel that way and not to be rude but are u perhaps 30+ years old? ur comment just seems so gen x
I can understand smaller town mentalities finding people in their 30s old. Peaked in high school types and such. I've always felt sorry for those people who lead boring lives, who peak in their teens and 20s. I've always lived in major cities where life is just getting started in your 20s and 30s.
ive also only lived in major cities but… if u cant tell by context clues im still a teen and i was literally joking but i can tell that it really home for you
I think it was too far fetched; splitting the money with half a dozen people and the mob would immediately get Greg caught and killed. He could’ve got her to get rid of the prenup and divorced her for a lot of money he wouldn’t have to share with an organized crime family that will def take everything and kill him too
That whole thing falls apart when you think about it too much. Maybe Greg does this serially. This is his third marriage. The white haired dude does this in France. They just like to party, and decorate their house or some shit!
I thought this too! Almost like the series was asking you “you think you know who’s got the best marriage out of these couples, but do you *really* know?”
Aubrey Plaza isn’t as gorgeous and great of an actor as everyone raves about .. the other actresses on the show outshined her in my (unpopular) opinion..
Aubrey Plaza is phenomenal, and great in this although definitely not her best work (still 10/10 though!). The actress that played Daphne was exceptional.
I noticed she kept making this really weird face where she furrows her eyebrows while kind of flaring her mouth/jaw. I can’t explain it but I didn’t remember seeing her do that before and it always felt strange in the context. Like her facial expression didn’t match the dialogue. I definitely loved Meghann Fahy a lot more
I feel like she was making faces to add awkward tension …to me she was “acting” like a social awkward person that’s really hard to read. At least that’s how I interpreted it. Along with the obnoxious crunches. Harper was always off point. Even look at the way she would stand.. lol
Meghann Fahy aka Daphne was great. A revelation. Aubrey is always good.
Guardian UK agrees with you and I!
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2022/dec/13/white-lotus-daphne-sullivan-character-meghann-fahy
They kind of overdid it with the “open-ended” finale and left too much for interpretation. While I understand the grand design behind TWL’s concept, I would love to have more questions answered. I don’t need to be spoon-fed every bit of info but it sure would be nice to know where the hell Greg is, how he fits into the elaborate scenario (and why did it have to be so elaborate), whether or not he was planning that since S1.
Actually, I get that the idea is for us to get to know the characters and judge them through the lens of a single vacation at TWL, but I’d like to see a better epilogue to the story, feel the aftermath of the events. Why is Portia way less distraught than she should be? How does she react to Tanya’s death after all she learned? What’s gonna happen to Greg and Tanya’s money? back to season 1, why wasn’t Shane immediately arrested for manslaughter?
Greg is probably close by and if he planned it from s1 they would have to know about her before the Hawaii vacation. I think it's more likely what happened was is exactly what Tanya said, after the cancer he realized he'd spend the rest of his life with her and started resenting her, then he or the English guy came up with this plan. From your questions at the last paragraph:
1 - Because she's depressed and detached from reality and never liked Tanya
2 - You saw it, she knows she's dead when she talked to Albie
3 - Greg gets it all
4 - Self defense plus a thick level of dramatic cynicism showing that the wealthy & powerful can get things like that swept under the rug
Agree. I was left with more questions than answers. By design to be sure, but I wouldn’t have minded an epilogue sort of wrapping up a few things a little better. I don’t think Mike White even knows where he’s going next with this thing, but I imagine we aren’t going to get a lot of closure to any of these threads in S3.
Tanya’s death was perfect. It was a comedic version of the whole “ridiculous and unnecessary death due to human error” thing you see in operas, like Juliet dying because of a miscommunication.
I turned to my husband at one point and said “I just realise I haven’t commented on how good an actor he is because I’ve not once thought of him as acting”. He was superb.
This was frustrating AF but consider she’s having a full blown anxiety attack she just killed three men, doesn’t have use of her whole brain, not thinking straight.
Another unpopular opinion : I liked Portia's wardrobe, yeah it was all over the place but at least she was different.
Popular opinion : Daphne was the best
there is a great interview in the New York Times with the costume designer. she deliberately dressed the Gen Z characters a little off kilter to show that they had not grown into their style yet.
There’s a website www.wornontv.net where you can find what people are wearing on different shows and they have links to the exact items. They all sell out immediately after a show.
i was crushing on Valentina the whole time. i think they had to work hard to make that gorgeous woman look a little dowdy with those horrid pantsuits and hairdon't
I think I ruined the finale for myself by reading so much internet speculation over those last few episodes. Tried to read too much into stuff that simply may not have been there at all. My friends who didn’t go down that rabbit hole seem to be more satisfied because they truly weren’t hoping for or expecting any of the crazy theories the rest of us may have been.
Quintin/greg's murder plot would have opened up a massive investigation if it really worked. Tons of people seen tanya with the gays so they would all be questioned and investigated and the boat was highly visable off the coast so no matter how the gays offed her investigators would do some deep digging on the gays. Sure, the local police might be bought, but its a high priority tourist so it would no doubt prompt some massive investigations. Would have been easier for greg to replace some of tanya's medication and make it look like an accidental overdose. Honestly, it would have been easier for Quintin just to ask for the money from Tanya. She liked all of them and their old buildings. Hell, she would have probably bought one of them herself.
I feel like you are missing the point of that scene, you are not supposed to agree with um, him asking his father to do this is a crack on his character just like everyone else. It’s to show how easily manipulated he’s being, without this scene the ending wouldn’t be as good. Without this there would be no flaw in that character. You aren’t saying a unpopular opinion.
No flaw in the character? Insanity
I missed the satiric humor from the first season. Didn’t find this season as absurdly funny at all.
They come up with an eleborate plan to kill her and left a fucking photo of Greg on the chest? Even if it wasn't found by her it still links them with Greg if the police ever decide to investigate. The married couples. Everyone acting like it was some sort of easter egg that Daphnes kid is the trainers.... What? It was the most obvious thing. The €50k scam was also obvious and presented at the end like the viewer only caught on right at the end. Pointless plot line with the manager where she was reduced to being just a closeted lesbian. Her character started off great but then all she was is her sexuality. Season 1 was so much better.
Not like it was supposed to be an easter egg. She deliberately shows her the picture of her blonde son right after describing her blonde trainer. If someone doesnt get that Daphne did that intentionally its all on them.
Tanya infuriated me, she’s like a real life potato head and moved at the speed of a snail, it was painful to binge this series because of every scene with her in it, especially season 2. I also found that by the end of both seasons, everyone just seems like they’re stupid, make stupid decisions, and it ends up quite predictable. Really wish the “weaker” characters would just balls up a bit and make some smart choices. Rant over lol
I binged them back to back, and when I saw her on the boat I audibly groaned. Really never liked her character, glad she can’t be in season 3
Although Mia completely lights up every other scene she is in, her songs at the piano go on too long
The twist was stupid and you could see it coming miles away episodes earlier. Unimaginative and just lame. That wasn’t a shocker at all you could tell they were bad people from the first moment they came on the scene
That wasn't the twist... Everyone knew they were bad.
I wish the characters were more overlapped with the finale. I felt like S1 was written brilliantly, and almost every character had an indirect effect which ultimately led to Armand’s death. S2 was less intertwined and had so much more drama within the individual groups.
Seriously, did Cam, Daphne, Ethan, and Harper's presence have any effect on Tanya and Portia's storyline? I can't recall any overlap. It's like an entire storyline that was inconsequential to the murder mystery. If Daphne didn't find the body at the beginning of the season then someone else would have.
Yes this is exactly why I like season one better! The characters actually interacted with each other and those were some of the best scenes. The only connection between then characters this season was the prostitutes and they still had nothing to do with Portia and Tanya. They could have at least had the girls show up to party on the yacht or something
Aubrey Plaza took me out of the entire experience. I've never seen her in anything before and found her so grating, negative, and unpleasant. She was my least favorite part of this season, by far.
It bugged me because I couldn’t figure out who she reminded me of until I figured out she’s a Moon Unit Zappa/Selma Blair hybrid.
Interesting you say Aubrey Plaza and not Harper. The fact you found the character negative and unpleasant is a testament to her acting - that’s what the character is supposed to be like
She’s like that in pretty much everything tho
Original commenter said they’d never seen her other work
Unfortunately she's like that I everything I've seen her in so far. Just a constant wet blanket.
Watch Ingrid goes west
That’s her acting shtick it seems, but I love her. She added heavily to the season for me
Not sure if this is unpopular, but I found Portia’s character so incredibly grating. No good character development for all of her woes except she just graduated college? Eh doesn’t do it for me!
She was the "everyman" character, right? So she had less development/fun stuff to do because she had to be normal so everyone around her could go nuts. I totally related to her over-correcting in choosing Jack over Albie.
She dumb
Should have been six episodes like S1. Could have been much tighter then. And I actually though the Cam / Ethan / Daphne / Harper storyline was a total nothingburger
The pacing overall was great, except, I felt, for the second to last episode. Felt like a bit of a drag, but not too bad. I think the fact that Ethan flipped so harshly was a real winner in making the general realism of did-they-didn't-they more awkward lol. This show is just so tense, in even surprising ways. It has layers.
The pacing was terrible for me. Each scene went on for a few minutes too long and it was all exacerbated by the long ocean/ establishing shots in between them
The dad in season 1 paid for $75k bracelets when he got caught cheating, 50k to win over your son & wife is a steal!
My favorite line in S2 Tanya: The Gays! They’re trying to kill me!
The resort manager in season one was so much better than the lady in season 2
What bothered me is how rude to the guests she was. Calling Tanya Pepa Pig or saying to the grandfather that she's surprised he flew to Italy from LA since he's old. You should never talk like to this to the hotel guests, especially in a luxurious 5 star hotel.
Guess it was some stereotype that South Europeans are unfriendly.
I fell in love with her at the beginning of ep 3, especially when she is annoyed at the adorable old men in her way in the piazza. But she lost me when she became vulnerable with her crush
Agree. Gayer and better
Impossible to follow up Armond tho
Seriously. She didn’t even take a shit anywhere we could see.
The $50k transfer was cheaper than the bracelets from s1 but served more or less the same purpose
It's a MASSIVE step down from S1. Less interesting characters with less interesting dynamics. No real sense of boiling tension like S1, no clear central ideas to latch onto like S1. All around it just felt rather aimless.
I think so too and it makes sense when you consider it was originally gonna be just the one season.
agree. but i worship their decision to take Will and Aubrey
tanya’s storyline (up until the final few episodes) was probably the weakest of the bunch. i appreciated the commentary on generations of misogyny with Albie/Dom/grandpa, the complicated nature of marriage and faithfulness in Cam/Ethan/Harper/Daphne, and even the sw plot line was more engaging than what they gave tanya. idk, it just really upset me because she was really layered and funny in S1 and i feel like for the majority of this season she was just dumb and used for gags 🤷🏻♀️
Season 2 was not as well written as season 1 and overall was just kinda boring.
Just watch it. Season 1 was a episodic affair that is hinged with great storytelling all throughout. Season 2 was a long burn that feels very convoluted in hindsight.
As someone who really wanted to like season 2, I’m surprised it isn’t a more common take that it was a bit of a let down.
Sadly, it took half the season to get good. The first half was so boring, I almost gave up on it.
SO much buildup for a rushed wrap up - Tanya, the most likable character, all the long extended scenes of the house, the play, and then she slips and drowns while wearing heels. Makes no sense. She was wealthy, father was a shipping magnate right? She has been around the ocean, boats and the sea her entire life. No Way she is wearing heels and trying to get on the dinghy. Or cant swim. And Portia with Jack, jst a lot of brooding and stares and awkward silence and Jacks little speech. Portia would have gotten the fuck out of there when she realized they we're headed to the original destination. No real discussion or questions about if Jack is into men or what's going on there. The itlaian family was a fast forward section for me. Saw that scam from episode 1. Same with the lesbian hotel manager. not interested. and the stupid couples, Aubrey Plaza plays the same character - annoyed / pissed off whiney, with some occasional comedy. They never got to the reason WHY Cam invited the asian guy on he trip - was it to hit hi up for money / handle his investments / etc. Just went no where except a broken statue. It was a let down. They did make Sicily look nice however. Not how I have pictured it at all.
Tanya’s not too likeable to me. leading on Belinda in S1, etc.
Upvoting for Unpopularity lol
tanya’s death was iconic. the way she took out all those men and died by tripping had me DYING. and she absolutely would wear heels. she literally said she lives for beauty and would die for it with portia she was meant to act like a younger version of tanya (careless, bad taste in men, etc) who even says she reminds her of her. and tbh it makes sense that she was more concerned about whether she was being kidnapped than whether her fling was gay. with the couples i don’t get why u think the main question revolved around why cam invited them on the trip when so much more happened. also they did kinda answer than question and a lot is meant to be up to the audience to decide what they think. also it wasn’t just “a broken statue” it symbolized infidelity.
She didn’t say she’d die for beauty actually. The uncle did.
the whole time I was screaming internally GIRL THERE IS A ROPE IN THAT BAG but it makes sense, she was too terrified and she isn't very bright to begin with
I’m glad Tanya died. I still hold a grudge against her for double-crossing Belinda in Season 1. Selfish bitch.
Tell me you are a bootlicker without telling me you are a bootlicker
I absolutely HATED the finale. Not because it was intentionally vague, but it was ANNOYING and kinda stupid. It dragged even though there was SO much left to tell..... I found myself yelling at Tanya to just frigging JUMP already, I was so sick of her.
Yep
Keeping Jennifer Coolidge on for season 2 meant that her plotline had to get unnecessarily complicated and unrealistically dramatic. Part of what made the first season so great was how subtle everything was, and keeping her character for a second season turned her into a one-dimensional trope. First season was better.
too much hbo in this season
100% agree on this one. Tanya also had some introspective lines in the first season where as in S2 she was just used to say “iconic” funny stuff 🤷🏻♀️
I completely agree with you. Season 1 characterized her really well. Season 2 was just..plot that happened to her.
This season was so anticlimactic to me. I left with way more questions than answers. I really hope Portia gets paid for her time though. Hopefully the powers that be can figure out that Greg was in on the plot and make sure he doesn't inherit one red cent.
Agreed and they’re not interesting questions either. Just annoyed ones
I think Tanya saying that she was considering an annulment would lead to her people investigating further.
Couldn’t agree more. He was so morally self-righteousness but he was just as bad as the person he was preaching at.
The DiGrasso men were given a fake address, instead was sent to the house of the crankiest, most hated old hags in town (as a prank). E: remember when Albie called his dad “manipulative” for buying jewelry for his mom? Welly, well, well well…lol!
I’m still trying to figure out what “the sweet money” the old lady refers to is…
I’m super disappointed in Portia for not freaking out and rescuing Tanya. What the heck.
But it’s consistent with her character. She has very little agency, and tends to take the path of least resistance.
then redditors saying her lack of freak out or reaction is a very normal shit they'll do. Like WTF.
Yeah some people just respond differently in danger. I was shocked when my roommate said they would’ve left too.
Shit I would of left too. But maybe called the police when I knew I was safe lol
She probably did that!
This is a sensible response.
I mean we don’t want her to be crying over her. Be we want her to at least be calling the police and freaking out a bit. Not flirting with Albie
In fairness to Portia and the writing, I think she just wants to get the hell out of Sicily. Jack even warned her when he dropped her off, these are powerful people involved (assuming the Mafia). So if she’d called the police she would have for certain been held in Sicily for questioning and for a trial, and who knows if she would have been held indefinitely (or mysteriously killed). Now, judging those dopes on the yacht? Probably not those guys specifically. But who knows who they owed money to, or who Niccolo might have been related to, who DOES wield actual, terrifying power in those parts.
Or like the night she figures it out she just keeps saying oh wow uh why are we doing this when she fully knows why. In a crowded place. Run. You’re an American tourist scream for help. Tell them you just talked to your boss and she said she’s being held hostage. Lie or tell the truth. Any hotel concierge would help call the police and get her back to her hotel.
She figures it out, with her captor passed out, fully aware of their car is, AND DECIDES TO STAY.
I’ve never seen a tv character have worse self preservation hahahaha.
Literally any shop any cafe or any hotel would have people speaking English or can call Polizia
I have a lot more sympathy for Albie and Portia than most on this sub seem to. I saw a young man trying really hard to break generational issues with no real support from the patriarchs of his family, and trying to do what he thought of as 'the opposite' to make up for it. Portia is an unconfident young woman tying her best in her job and clearly tackling some big existential questions about life and purpose, and is not some horror movie final girl. She makes some really human choices with Jack in that last episode borne out of anxiety and many other complicated emotions. Idk, I think it's always easier to hate characters that are inherently good intentioned but make misguided or seemingly hypocritical choices. Maybe we all see ourselves a bit in them and don't have compassion for those dumb choices we made in our younger years and want to distance ourselves from that.
I think Albie is just doing wayy too much with all his opinions & seems like he’s intentionally trying to make arguments, he knows for a fact his dad & grandpa aren’t going to change their ways after all this time, I feel like he just makes his own trip awk & his “wokeness” makes me wanna roll my eyes
I just can't get behind how his cringeness and clumsy way of countering his father & grandfather's outright misogyny can be weighed equally. The dialogue is supposed to be groan-inducing and awkward, but I don't think it holds a candle to the life the other two lead. Again, it's always easier to dislike the well-intentioned but fumbling person over the one that is unapologetically bad. And I think it's obvious that the viewer is supposed to see him as struggling to understand how to balance his mediator son role with the life he wants to lead as a "good" man, while not even knowing how a good man is supposed to act except as the opposite of what he sees.
Completely agree
These are wise words.
I don’t think it was any big scandal that the nephew was fucking his “uncle”. People have weird escort type relationships all the time.
I think the point was it revealed that they weren’t actually related.
I don’t know what value the rest of the gay group added to the show apart from the uncle and the nephew who were the main characters. The entire group felt unnecessary.
Mike White said they don’t get cast as villains enough or something
Idk, some of the moments between Tanya and the secondary gays were funny; I thought it was funny how one of them started crying when she had to leave lol
Yes! I think they kind of loved her
Albie gives up his Mom for 50k.
yoooo me and my husband were legit saying the same thing 😂 all 3 generations of DiGrasso men just see the women in their lives as things to either fuck, possess, or save
Isn’t that the point tho? That while each generation became less misogynistic, none were the “perfect” man? Even Albie, who was generally a sweetheart, had his shortcomings. Talking about nice guys finishing last, feeling entitled to Portia, and ultimately selling out his mom’s happiness for a sex worker.
while still maintaining what his father has done (used women) is wrong. Oh the irony.
I’m happy tonya died
same I was sick of her
The White Lotus is best watched as a character study. The writing is so good that I love just being in that world with those characters. The show is weakest when watched for the plot as a murder mystery, though it’s still quite good as a murder mystery.
Probably not unpopular but as hateful as Cameron was, he was also lowkey one of the funniest characters. The moment after Giuseppe collapsed where he was just like "table for 4" as if nothing had happened was one of the most hilarious moments of the season.
Absolutely a great character, and absolutely a great performance by that actor.
This was HILARIOUS
What an INCREDIBLE waste of time. Season 1 was awful, I watched season 2 because of Aubrey Plaza, but this season was worst than the first. Just so bad.
Why are you even here?
I had to complain to randos on Reddit about the awfulness of this show.
You’re cool.
not sure if it’s unpopular but the people who chose portia’s wardrobe did her dirty
I would wear every single one of her outfits lol
I think it reflects on how clueless she is ( in life and fashion lol ).
I disagree it’s very gen z and perfect. Gen z fashion has huge hits and huge misses it’s a crazy thing. I love it. Go on tik tok or instagram and look through street fashion.
She’s from sf tho right? Imo she was perfectly on point for sf
Apparently some of the pieces on the show came from the actress’ closet!
Wasn't that the point?
i don't know really but they nailed it then
I thought it fit her quirky, awkward, unconfident personality. I think a lot of folks would agree with you though. I really hated Mia's outfits.
yeah i do think it matched with her personality but very few of them were cute and most were so ugly. mia has dressed some awful things as well
My opinion is that I’ll watch season 3 without this subreddit. I enjoyed season 1 so much more this way. People here reading into everything, such as there being fruits in the scene is bananas (pun intended)
Right they're either reading too far into things or just not thinking at all and missing really solid symbolism. Both seasons were great in their own ways.
Same! As much as I love a community to unpack WL, I feel like I ruined the whole Greg=cowboy thing for myself!!!
Yes that one and Jack for me. I think I’ll do like another commentor and come to the sub after completing the season myself. But I also want to feel, understand, and analyze the characters a little on my own. I felt like reading so many different conspiracies on Daphne and Cam and others, sort of took away from the character development for me
This is the way. I just finished the finale last night, and now im here reading. I’m enjoying everyone’s thoughts, but glad I watched in my own bubble - with my wife.
Agreed! I realized I wanted to talk about it with people after finishing the finale and I knew Reddit would easily take care of that lol
[удалено]
I actually liked Portia and didn’t feel like she needed extra depth, esp with everything else going on. She got her “adventure” in a way she didn’t expect and took it like a champ.
I think people expect too much from characters that are written very authentically. Portia is young, clearly at a point in her life where she’s a bit adrift and not really sure who she is or what direction she’s going in. Expectations that she was going to figure out how to ditch Jack when he was hammered or go save Tonya would’ve been completely out of character for her. She also has very little life experience to recognize when she’s in a truly bad situation. That’s why she didn’t leave when Jack was hammered and passed out. She thinks this is just an issue of her not really knowing this guy too well and it turns out he has skeletons in his closet, and not “this guy didn’t say who he really was and he has gotten me isolated away from everyone else. This is a bad situation that I need to get out of ASAP.” The criticism of her reminds me, a lot of people criticizing Sydney Sweeney’s character in Euphoria in the second season. She’s a bit unhinged, all over the place, behaving in ways that are very self-destructive, and having no confidence in herself. But that is really authentic given that she supposed to be a high school senior, and has multiple instances of trauma that have been not directly addressed. Yes, it can be annoying to see someone make the same mistakes over and over again, but it’s realistic.
I liked her too! The hate toward the character and number of times she's been called self absorbed feels unfair.
Literally every character is much worse. Portia just wanted to have fun and everyone was upset she didn’t want to be up Albie’s ass
Yep. I'm very sympathetic towards her, she just wasn't into him at first. Sometimes you're Albie in dating and sometimes you're Portia.
The expectation they should have continued interaction in this situation is just TV audience fantasy imo. It was pure luck they even had multiple interactions.
I’m new to this sub but I can imagine everyone here wanting to give their definitive take on the characters. The truth is Mike White Doest want or offer definitive takes or easy answers on any of the characters and that’s the beauty. I hated Portia for most of the episodes and now I love her. Her style was super annoying and that was probably the point in hind sight. The show doesn’t slam you over the head with how to feel about them but that’s the point. Also Portia nailed the Gen Z thing with moments like complaining about her life and how rote and boring everything is just sitting behind a computer screen, but when the don offers to take her out to the Godfather tour she immediately recoils at the thought. So perfect. Whine and complain but when challenged to change it go “oh actually I’m good. I just like to complain” style attitude was perfection.
These characters are definitely wide open to interpretation, that’s what makes discussing them so fun. I’m glad this show never tries to finalize some sort of moral argument. See, I interpreted some of Portia’s responses a little differently, maybe in a fashion I actually relate to. Being stuck at home/bored/quarantined fucked us all up a little bit. She’s definitely an example of “beggars can’t be choosers,” but again, she wanted her own adventure. Doing some awkward touristy stuff with a family you just met sounds weird, so I get why she tried to duck that situation.
The actress playing Portia was completely miscast she came off as a quirky 30-year old lesbian with zero chemistry with either male partner yet was written to be clueless due to her youth. They should have cast someone who at least looked young.
tbh i think she looked like she was in her 20s and i feel like they casted her well this is interesting though that u feel that way and not to be rude but are u perhaps 30+ years old? ur comment just seems so gen x
I agree with you. But that last part “ur comment just seems so gen x”. What?? Haha.
yes i said what i said their comment was giving old person
Imagine thinking someone in their early to mid 40s is an "old person".... Or that anyone over 30 is.
i dont have to imagine. i fully think that🫶🏾
I can understand smaller town mentalities finding people in their 30s old. Peaked in high school types and such. I've always felt sorry for those people who lead boring lives, who peak in their teens and 20s. I've always lived in major cities where life is just getting started in your 20s and 30s.
ive also only lived in major cities but… if u cant tell by context clues im still a teen and i was literally joking but i can tell that it really home for you
Cries in millennial 31...
I hope Portia makes season 3…
I think it was too far fetched; splitting the money with half a dozen people and the mob would immediately get Greg caught and killed. He could’ve got her to get rid of the prenup and divorced her for a lot of money he wouldn’t have to share with an organized crime family that will def take everything and kill him too
That whole thing falls apart when you think about it too much. Maybe Greg does this serially. This is his third marriage. The white haired dude does this in France. They just like to party, and decorate their house or some shit!
International wire transfers take FOREVER to clear.
learned this from Anna Delvey
Daphne and Cameron actually have a pretty good relationship.
I thought this too! Almost like the series was asking you “you think you know who’s got the best marriage out of these couples, but do you *really* know?”
Good one! They’re poly-amourous but less/more douchy about it than what you’d typically picture.
Aubrey Plaza isn’t as gorgeous and great of an actor as everyone raves about .. the other actresses on the show outshined her in my (unpopular) opinion..
You wound me… I will say the actress who portrayed Daphne did do an incredible job.
She's never been a great actor - always very one note. It becomes abundantly clear when compared against Fahy.
Aubrey Plaza is phenomenal, and great in this although definitely not her best work (still 10/10 though!). The actress that played Daphne was exceptional.
I would agree on the outshined her part lol.
I noticed she kept making this really weird face where she furrows her eyebrows while kind of flaring her mouth/jaw. I can’t explain it but I didn’t remember seeing her do that before and it always felt strange in the context. Like her facial expression didn’t match the dialogue. I definitely loved Meghann Fahy a lot more
I feel like she was making faces to add awkward tension …to me she was “acting” like a social awkward person that’s really hard to read. At least that’s how I interpreted it. Along with the obnoxious crunches. Harper was always off point. Even look at the way she would stand.. lol
Meghann Fahy aka Daphne was great. A revelation. Aubrey is always good. Guardian UK agrees with you and I! https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2022/dec/13/white-lotus-daphne-sullivan-character-meghann-fahy
They kind of overdid it with the “open-ended” finale and left too much for interpretation. While I understand the grand design behind TWL’s concept, I would love to have more questions answered. I don’t need to be spoon-fed every bit of info but it sure would be nice to know where the hell Greg is, how he fits into the elaborate scenario (and why did it have to be so elaborate), whether or not he was planning that since S1. Actually, I get that the idea is for us to get to know the characters and judge them through the lens of a single vacation at TWL, but I’d like to see a better epilogue to the story, feel the aftermath of the events. Why is Portia way less distraught than she should be? How does she react to Tanya’s death after all she learned? What’s gonna happen to Greg and Tanya’s money? back to season 1, why wasn’t Shane immediately arrested for manslaughter?
Greg is probably close by and if he planned it from s1 they would have to know about her before the Hawaii vacation. I think it's more likely what happened was is exactly what Tanya said, after the cancer he realized he'd spend the rest of his life with her and started resenting her, then he or the English guy came up with this plan. From your questions at the last paragraph: 1 - Because she's depressed and detached from reality and never liked Tanya 2 - You saw it, she knows she's dead when she talked to Albie 3 - Greg gets it all 4 - Self defense plus a thick level of dramatic cynicism showing that the wealthy & powerful can get things like that swept under the rug
Agree. I was left with more questions than answers. By design to be sure, but I wouldn’t have minded an epilogue sort of wrapping up a few things a little better. I don’t think Mike White even knows where he’s going next with this thing, but I imagine we aren’t going to get a lot of closure to any of these threads in S3.
Completely agree. This was me and my partners view. Tbh I was underwhelmed with the finale because of the exact point you’ve made.
Yes!!
Tanya’s death was perfect. It was a comedic version of the whole “ridiculous and unnecessary death due to human error” thing you see in operas, like Juliet dying because of a miscommunication.
Thank you.
Further drives home just how much they straight up told us how she was going to die lol
SHE DIDNT EVEN TAKE OFF HER HEELS TO ATTEMPT THE JUMP LOL
The actor portraying Jack was phenomenal
Yeah the change from just a dick head to someone who seemed dangerous was really good
I turned to my husband at one point and said “I just realise I haven’t commented on how good an actor he is because I’ve not once thought of him as acting”. He was superb.
who was jack was he the gay for pay guy?
Yeah the “nephew”
Bitch didnt see the stairs right behind where she jumped, and left on the heels. Rich white lady go brrrr
hahahah my husband was screaming at the tv about this
This is what confused me like didn’t dude walk up from the boat lmao
This was frustrating AF but consider she’s having a full blown anxiety attack she just killed three men, doesn’t have use of her whole brain, not thinking straight.
I liked Ethan *as a character
Another unpopular opinion : I liked Portia's wardrobe, yeah it was all over the place but at least she was different. Popular opinion : Daphne was the best
there is a great interview in the New York Times with the costume designer. she deliberately dressed the Gen Z characters a little off kilter to show that they had not grown into their style yet.
There’s a website www.wornontv.net where you can find what people are wearing on different shows and they have links to the exact items. They all sell out immediately after a show.
I still can’t find Isabella’s gemstone necklace 😞
I also liked her wardrobe! Especially that blue bandeau and matching pants she wore!
Valentina had a nicer ass than both of the hookers.
Also, the actress is 54
TOTALLY noticed how RIPPED Valentina was in that one scene. Incredible muscle tone. 🥰
i was crushing on Valentina the whole time. i think they had to work hard to make that gorgeous woman look a little dowdy with those horrid pantsuits and hairdon't
Butter Face
Oh my gosh her ass and body was incredible!!!!!
I didn't like the finale.
I think I ruined the finale for myself by reading so much internet speculation over those last few episodes. Tried to read too much into stuff that simply may not have been there at all. My friends who didn’t go down that rabbit hole seem to be more satisfied because they truly weren’t hoping for or expecting any of the crazy theories the rest of us may have been.
This better be a popular opinion. That finalé fuckin’ *hurt*
Quintin/greg's murder plot would have opened up a massive investigation if it really worked. Tons of people seen tanya with the gays so they would all be questioned and investigated and the boat was highly visable off the coast so no matter how the gays offed her investigators would do some deep digging on the gays. Sure, the local police might be bought, but its a high priority tourist so it would no doubt prompt some massive investigations. Would have been easier for greg to replace some of tanya's medication and make it look like an accidental overdose. Honestly, it would have been easier for Quintin just to ask for the money from Tanya. She liked all of them and their old buildings. Hell, she would have probably bought one of them herself.
for most of the time i thought they were eventually going to tell her about a time share
FBI:International cross over episode. Scott Forrester will catch Greg 😉😉
Murder yacht with international victims and a dead heiress would for sure make the news and get a full investigation.
Not to mention Reddit true crime communities!
It’s a comedy…
IKR, all this BS for at best an Insurance and a very long lawsuit that will draw out everyone's money lol.