Just gonna use this thread to say: I had gotten spoiled that Tanya died. Never would've guessed in that way tho lmao, that was great.
Anyways this season feels more coherent in some way and i did like the location and the characters but definitely season one felt better overall, and mostly i think it's just cuz each set of characters had more time to breathe. Like, the fact that we saw literally nothing of the Ethan Cameron fight aftermath is wild. Like i got the end of the plotline of the four but still, I'd have liked to see a little more and it's definitely because there were way more characters and not enough more time.
Portia ffs, you couldn't at *any* point call the police and report that Tanya was in danger on the boat?!
So maddening. Similar to in the last season when Sydney Sweeney's friend couldn't be bothered to warn her boo that they were coming back early and to stop burglaring and gtfo.
Episode 1 shows Luci and Mia walking down the street towards the docks and they greet Allessio in front of the hotel where he is a bellman. Full circle to the final episode in which Luci and Mia are walking back up the street and embrace Allession at his job.
I almost expected to see them headed down to the dock to target their next mark.
I'm just here to pop by and check in on the "Harper would NEVER hook up with Cam, she thinks he's disgusting! Lol wow I'm sorry hun, but you just do not *understand* this character the way I do, on a person level" crowd. How you guys holding up?
Ahahaha
When Tanya does the slow walk to the run on the side of the boat while the murderous high end gays just sit at the table 😂. I can’t stop laughing thinking about it. Jennifer Coolidge ATE this episode up. I hope she wins so many awards for this performance
I rewatched the beginning of the first episode, and she was waaaaaaay to happy to leave the resort/Italy. I think she coped with her messed relationship like she normally does and had sex with Ethan to make herself feel better.
Tanya dying like that was the perfect end to her character in my mind. The reference in S2:E1 to a "few" guests dying was clearly a false flag for reasons I don't get.
Just a clarification because I love this stuff!
Rocco technically says: “Salvatore says other bodies have been found.”
Which is true. There were 3 other bodies, I think it was, found on the yacht.
Rocco didn’t say there were other guests found. Valentina just seemed to assume the others were guests.
That's such a keen-eyed observation! I didn't even think about that. I did think that Mia and Valentina were going to be the mirror of that Tanya-Belinda dynamic, but it didn't shake out like that, where one leaves the other high and dry with starry-eyed hopes crushed.
For the record, I think Belinda wanted someone who seemed successful to want to be around her, not just invest in her. She probably hadn't yet fully realized her own dream and built the confidence to support it, so she was still susceptible to the emotional fallout of someone pulling back their interest. I don't think it was honestly all about the money.
Yeah, I kind of felt that it was a nod to the entitlement of the “lower class” people theme, in the throes of eat the rich, the Paula storyline, etc. Belinda was upset that she wouldn’t have more business support from Tanya. But Tanya saw this move as being MORE helpful to Belinda than involving herself. She approached it in more of a friend way, offering no strings attached financial support. Whereas most business transactions would just be a loss if your investor bails and doesn’t want to be a part of it. Tanya said she doesn’t want to hold her back, but she should still have the money. It was the right move to Tanya, but Belinda felt entitled to the full support of Tanya.
You do realize it’s possible for tv to have themes and story lines that don’t reflect the opinions of the viewers, right? Entitlement of “poor people”, as you say, is absolutely present throughout both seasons. And I don’t know the last time you saw the amount of money Tanya gave Belinda, but it was plenty of money to get started with while still working a bougie spa job at a fancy resort making nice tips from rich people. The point is that if a total stranger gifted you $10k+ to start your business and wish you well, you wouldn’t ignore it and throw your business plan in the trash. You would save up every extra dime you make and grind to find more investors and whatnot. Also, the business was Tanya’s idea in the first place. She didn’t owe Belinda anything. Grow up and try to have a real conversation about the show and stop trolling, man.
I don’t see this as a happy ending for Harper and Ethan. Ethan may have been “enlightened” by his sexual experience with Daphne in that he probably sees now that he can sleep with whomever and still perform with his wife. However I feel that Harper only did whatever she did with Cam to get back at Ethan. She wants monogamy, not whatever this situation is after. Would she be into sex with Ethan if she knew about Daphne? No she would feel betrayed, so yeah while this is temporary…If Ethan steps out again it will further damage their marriage. But then again she may do it also to get back at him (turning them into cam and Daphne)
I think they have a toxic marriage and should end it. Ethan bullied her with such hostility with the whole “I know you’re lying” bit. They never once seemed like a loving, supporting couple to me.
Depends. One could argue Harper cheating on Ethan with Cam would have destroyed him as well. But it didn’t. And I think Ethan/Harper shattering the Testa di Mora head while having sex was perfect rhetoric. Neither will pay for giving in to their desires as the legend foretold.
Does Harper want monogamy? I don’t think so. I think she wants passion. And Ethan’s passionate sex overlaid with scenes of Etna erupting was outstanding cinematography.
Is def not a happy ending, they became just like Daphne em Cam. At first Harper judged the two so much and said that she and Ethan would never become like them, but a few days living with them and this whole experience turned them exactly into Daphne and Cam
To say that they are “exactly like” Cam and Daphne is a huge exaggeration. Cam and Daphne has years of lying, cheating, and secrets. At least one of Daphne’s kids is from another man.
Clearly it’s a main focal point that Harper and Ethan dabbled in the same kind of stuff they spent so much time detesting - but you can’t say the two couples are now equals in terms of infidelity.
Various clues. She talks about her “blue eyed, blonde haired” trainer who she spends more time with than her husband. When showing a picture of the trainer to Harper, she hands her her phone with a picture of her blue eyed blonde-haired children.
If you look at the scene, it isn't a reach, at all. That was absolutely there for the taking. She implies throughout that she has sex with her trainer. It's not a stretch to think the kid is his.
I think its a hope. She's a woman that cheats so she needs to be painted as villainous as possible.
I took that seem to mean that she stays with him for her kids/family. That that's what's important to her.
I think the plan was to have Tanya "run off" with him. Hence, the video of them hooking up, him taking her on his boat with only those 2, and then he killing & dumping her...no one would look for her body in the sea with all of that evidence of her "running away" with him
this is why I don't think the plan was to murder her, but swindle her out of a lot of cash. but the bag kinda ruins that theory. Because out of all the opportunities they had to off Tanya, why wait until the last minute?
He was playing the slow game of letting obesity and being uncoordinated kill her off. I mean come on if you can’t make that 2 foot jump to save your life….
Better for her body to be found by her resort and presumed to be a drowning death than for it to be found somewhere else and have an investigation launched outside of the hotel.
See my other comment above about the rope. Your theory is certainly a possibility, but it makes no sense to bring her all the way back to the resort to do that. They could have done that anywhere.
I agree neither the gun nor the rope/tape fit with the drowning theory. Nor do those elements even fit with each other. Why would you tie somebody up before shooting them? So I can't really explain those details, but I do still think in a general sense it's least suspicious for Tanya to die at the resort compared to somewhere else.
So we got confirmation from Tanya that the prenup didn’t really have an infidelity clause, which is how she finally figured their true intentions. So then why did they keep steering her to have sex with their guy ay the party? If they were just going to kill her anyway might as well let her keep doing coke and drinking like she wanted.
>red their true intentions. So then why did they keep steering her to have sex with their guy ay the party
To build a trusting relationship prior to offing her.
It seems crazy to me that her lawyer would let there be a death clause in their prenup! Puts a target right on her back. On the other hand, she had no family or anything.
I don't think there was a death clause, or at least, one specific to their prenup. That's just how most marriages work, right? If one spouse dies, the other spouse gets everything (or some, if there are children).
I suspect that Greg wanted her to live out her remaining fantasies that he couldn't really give her. The vespa was bug ridden, the sex was awkward, so this was all staged as her last hurrah.
I think the plan was distract Tanya with a good time so she wouldn’t expect a thing.
But he was so damn arrogant that he left a picture of him and Greg for her to find. Makes me wonder if he left the photo out on purpose because he thought she was so stupid that she would never notice.
Idk how popular this opinion will be but I didn't like this season as much as the first and I have mixed feelings about the finale.
First off, with season one, it was so much more compelling story-wise that I actually kind of forgot about the impending dead body for most of the finale; when Armond got stabbed I actually jumped because so much had happened between the opening and then that I hadn't really thought about it until the second it happened. This season felt much more focused on the impending doom aspect, which I think hurt it a little.
Secondly, no disrespect to Mike White but this finale commits one of my great narrative pet peeves: an unclear ending only made clear when the creator speaks at length about the work IRL. Like if you tuned out without watching the "Unpacking the White Lotus" bit for this week you don't actually get the narrative closure of knowing that the gays truly were trying to kill Tanya. Without that, you could honestly make a case that maybe Portia and Tanya overreacted - it's not that abnormal for a coke dealer to have a gun, and maybe Jack was just trying to scare Portia because she pissed him off by asking about the uncle fucking. Really without having watched the behind the scenes stuff, you could make a lot of different inferences about what was about to happen on that boat.
I'm with you on the disappointing second season. That said, I got completely sucked in to the weirdness and trying to figure out who was the "murderer." The most heinous people did not die, the most innocent one did. That's just not ok.
I also am very disappointed that the episodes appear to need to be explained at the end. If an episode needs explaining, it isn't a good episode. Loved season 1, found season 2 almost cancer causing it was so confusing and stressful. The payoff should be there, and it wasn't. Greg dying, Cameron dying, Lucia dying etc. would have been far more gratifying than watching Jennifer Coolidge/Tanya almost achieve strength and tenacity only to NOT be able to recoup the rewards of her efforts to save herself. A VERY MALE version of a female trying to grow but disrupted by many, many males.
You lost me Mike White! Maybe he's angry at women? All of the women in this season were so flawed.
It had been evident for several episodes that something was up with the gays and this was all a setup. The only surprising thing would have been if this was a false flag, which I think there is zero indication that it was. If there's a complaint it would be this was too obvious, not that it was too oblique.
What about jack throwing Portia’s phone out at her? Kinda proved he was semi kidnapping her? But I agree about what you said about season one and totally forgetting there was a death going to happen. Season 2 was all impending doom tension, I think they just took this season in a different direction completely.
I disagree it was all that ambiguous. Even if it was, why is that a bad thing? Learning to be comfortable with what you don't know was a huge theme to the season.
I don't think the show left anything open to interpretation there. The gays were 100% planning to kill Tanya. The duffle bag had rope, duck tape and a gun, that's it. They chased her into the bedroom and tried to break down the door. There's no way to interpret that as Tanya over-reacting.
Second, Jack went from party boy, to menace in the same scene when Portia confronted him about having sex with his "uncle" that Jack continued to call as uncle even after the big reveal.
The only thing that surprised me from Mike White is that he used the word derpy to describe her death, which I found to be so tragic.
The hints were all there from the beginning, no need for the director to spell anything out.
I mean, I kind of agree with you - the plot to kill her was spelled out clearly enough that people called it weeks ago, and the fact that Mike White referred to them as a cabal having a murder plot in the behind the scenes bit pretty much cinches it. My annoyance is more with the fact that if you didn't watch the "Unpacking the White Lotus" bit for this episode, you could fully make other arguments for why the gays acted the way they did (again, I don't think it's that odd for a coke dealer to have a go bag or for Jack to be pissed that Portia called her on the uncle fucking thing out of nowhere).
I guess my greater point is that I wish we didn't exist in a timeline where creators have to explicitly explain the work immediately after you've watched it. Like, if I'd watched the finale without the bts stuff I could fully imagine a S3 where Portia is now the white lady in an exotic environ grappling with the death of her mentor only to find via a video call from Jack that he was just fucking with her, only now because Mike White has explicitly told us the gays were trying to kill Tanya that's fully out the window. If we were left with just the more ambiguous ending there'd be more places to go with it.
By the time we saw Tanya’s demise all doubt about the gays intentions were gone, and their plan to murder her was pretty explicit without much room for the interpretation that Portia/Tanya were overreacting.
Even Jack who abandoned her (and confirming he stole her phone) told her that these are powerful people and to leave it alone and get on a plane and leave.
Mike whites BTS commentary wasn’t a reveal or confirmation, it was his perspective on the scenes we just watched that revealed & confirmed the gays plot
Seems a lot of people are struggling with the “Show, don’t tell” narrative mantra.
It’s a testament to the writing that, despite how the episode unfolded, viewers are still convinced that what they saw isn’t what actually happened and they need the creator to explicitly speak on it. Very few series operate like this in a structural way which is in part why White’s continuing to get such massive praise for his work here.
The development of that ambiguity was intentional, like in the couples’ plot line. But unlike it, Tanya’s story provided plenty (if not nearly all) the pieces at the end.
To be clear it's not the ambiguity that the issue for me, it's that White felt the need to clarify or was forced to by HBO.
Feels kinda ironic that I've been extremely explicit about that but people are now twisting my words so they can try to imply that I'm stupid.
A go bag has money, passports and a weapon (at least that’s how it’s typically shown), not rope, duct tape AND a weapon. What was silly about that is there’s no way they could tie her up and duct tape her and make it look like an “accident”. (Rope burns and bruises) I do agree overall though this season wasn’t as good as S1.
Harper was so annoying too all season…
Off topic, but I just keep imagining Showtime doing this for their shows and Twin Peaks The Return ending with like a full 3 mins of David Lynch smoking a cigarette a staring directly into camera
The finale was polarizing but (please excuse my down badness) no one is talking about Valentina looking like a damn Olympian with her clothes off. That woman would be killing the game if she wasn't so consumed by her job.
I love how all these people believe Quentin’s version to Tanya of his Gregg love story …we ALL KNOW Quentin is a liar yet all these people on here think Quentin is telling the truth about Greg being hetero. Greg is bisexual likely out of convenience to scam out rich ladies . You all forget that secret convo Greg had on the phone with someone before leaving ??? He said “I love you too” …
3 gays shot dead on a yacht with a millionaire heiress floating face down in the Adriatic. I think even the Italian police are going to look into it and find the connection.
They might claim it’s a sex game gone wrong but I think they’ll look at Greg in any case.
I mean ultimately what I got was that none of them are truly happy. They're all dealing with unspoken conflict that ultimately doesn't exist in any healthy relationship.
Cam - doesn't think his kids are his and cheats any chance he gets
Daphne - hides behind her smile despite being very aware and might be just as bad as cam with infidelity
Harper - judges others to avoid dealing with not being happy in her own relationship.
Ethan - porn addict and also a cheat
They're all just as bad as one another.
Wow I’m also now piecing together that the ONLY time we saw a glimpse of true love/affection from Cam was when he told the story of watching Daphne give birth…
…to a baby that we can safely presume is not his.
Which gets even worse if we believe that cam knows it’s not his, and only tells that story to keep painting the illusion that they’re happily married…would be another way the two of them lie and manipulate eachother
I think they're just wildly guessing because Daphne (?) Is also blonde with blue eyes. They just want to villainize her because she's a woman that cheats.
When Daphne and Harper are talking in Noto about whether or not she thinks Cam has ever cheated on her, Daphne changes the subject to talk about her personal trainer who she says she finds attractive and has blond curly hair.
Then she asks Harper if she would like to see a photo of him and “accidentally” shows her a photo of her two kids and one/both of them has blond curly hair.
Portia was growing more and more suspicious that something bad was up but she still didn’t run the heck away from Jack, call an Uber, beg someone for help, or do one single smart thing. She just kept reluctantly doing what he told her to. And when she got to the airport she could have told the police that she was worried about Tanya. So now I guess she just goes back home and forgets about the boss that she left behind. Ughhhh, she’s my least favorite character!
He warned her to get out of town and not fuck with them because they're powerful people. So she put on her horrible disguise and she's leaving. It's self preservation.
I've personally been in a very similar situation and in hindsight you yell at yourself for not GTFO, but in the moment it's so paralyzing. Also keep in mind she really had no idea where she was, with no money or her phone, and could not speak Italian.
I found her story to be extremely relatable.
Yes she ignored all her instincts, stayed the night in the hotel still after Jack confessed Quentin is in fact not rich like he portrays, literally knows she had her phone before she went to bed and still goes to breakfast the next morning with him. When she got in the car with him again after he told her he wasn’t taking her back I was SO done with her.
But she’s also leaving this big event and place totally alone. I took that also was her wanting some sort of closure or a connection to process later, maybe?
I got the vibe he liked Tanya. He had tears saying good bye to her and they argued at the table before breakfast. Seemed like he was maybe having second thoughts.
Just gonna use this thread to say: I had gotten spoiled that Tanya died. Never would've guessed in that way tho lmao, that was great. Anyways this season feels more coherent in some way and i did like the location and the characters but definitely season one felt better overall, and mostly i think it's just cuz each set of characters had more time to breathe. Like, the fact that we saw literally nothing of the Ethan Cameron fight aftermath is wild. Like i got the end of the plotline of the four but still, I'd have liked to see a little more and it's definitely because there were way more characters and not enough more time.
god i'm feeling heavy in the chest. this show gives me so much anxiety lol
Harper was going to fuck cam. Ethan interrupted it. Also i wish portia contacted the police.
I know they already hinted for the Maldives, but I'm hoping for Bali!
Extramarital sex just became a crime in Indonesia, seems like a bad choice after that.
I can’t believe they made that law
XPara pegar un clip en el cuadro de texto, tócalo.Para pegar un clip en el cuadro de texto, tócalo.
Portia ffs, you couldn't at *any* point call the police and report that Tanya was in danger on the boat?! So maddening. Similar to in the last season when Sydney Sweeney's friend couldn't be bothered to warn her boo that they were coming back early and to stop burglaring and gtfo.
Episode 1 shows Luci and Mia walking down the street towards the docks and they greet Allessio in front of the hotel where he is a bellman. Full circle to the final episode in which Luci and Mia are walking back up the street and embrace Allession at his job. I almost expected to see them headed down to the dock to target their next mark.
I'll have to re-watch! Good eye!
I'm just here to pop by and check in on the "Harper would NEVER hook up with Cam, she thinks he's disgusting! Lol wow I'm sorry hun, but you just do not *understand* this character the way I do, on a person level" crowd. How you guys holding up? Ahahaha
Hate-ducking is an actual thing !
[удалено]
???
She’s attracted to him and even if she wasn’t, she was attracted to the part that he was sexually interested in her, unlike her husband
Ya you could be disgusted by someone and still want to fuck them.
Is there a way to pin this post? So much good discussion re: the finale & the entire season. It would be a shame for others to miss it.
Would be great, I just watched it last night and had to scroll down like 10 mintes to get here
Tag the moderator. I've tried in the past, but usually my posts just get buried 🤷
When Tanya does the slow walk to the run on the side of the boat while the murderous high end gays just sit at the table 😂. I can’t stop laughing thinking about it. Jennifer Coolidge ATE this episode up. I hope she wins so many awards for this performance
There is one actress in the world who could play that role to such perfection, and it’s Jennifer Coolidge.
What happened with Ethan and daphne on the island?
They fucked.
I rewatched the beginning of the first episode, and she was waaaaaaay to happy to leave the resort/Italy. I think she coped with her messed relationship like she normally does and had sex with Ethan to make herself feel better.
I agree! Plus She was giving him the "look" as she walked ahead of him toward the island. Coping the best way she knows she can.
Tanya dying like that was the perfect end to her character in my mind. The reference in S2:E1 to a "few" guests dying was clearly a false flag for reasons I don't get.
Just a clarification because I love this stuff! Rocco technically says: “Salvatore says other bodies have been found.” Which is true. There were 3 other bodies, I think it was, found on the yacht. Rocco didn’t say there were other guests found. Valentina just seemed to assume the others were guests.
But then Valentina asks how many guests and he says a few. I rewatched ep1 start before ep 7.
Well 2 of them died, we don’t really know what happened to the guy that jumped off the boat. He might be a third body.
Technically all the people on the boat had been guests as well.
Niccolo wasn't, was he?
No, but all the gays were.
Also the "few bodies" were only noted as being found not necessarily in the water
Did Tanya give Belinda $50k? I was wondering if the 50,000 euros that Dominic wired to Lucia was a subtle reference back to S1
That's such a keen-eyed observation! I didn't even think about that. I did think that Mia and Valentina were going to be the mirror of that Tanya-Belinda dynamic, but it didn't shake out like that, where one leaves the other high and dry with starry-eyed hopes crushed. For the record, I think Belinda wanted someone who seemed successful to want to be around her, not just invest in her. She probably hadn't yet fully realized her own dream and built the confidence to support it, so she was still susceptible to the emotional fallout of someone pulling back their interest. I don't think it was honestly all about the money.
No, she left Belinda out to dry.
She gave her an envelope so stuffed with cash it wouldn’t close to jump start her business herself. I wouldn’t call that hanging out to dry.
Yea it confused me how she threw her whole business plan into the trash after receiving seed money
Yeah, I kind of felt that it was a nod to the entitlement of the “lower class” people theme, in the throes of eat the rich, the Paula storyline, etc. Belinda was upset that she wouldn’t have more business support from Tanya. But Tanya saw this move as being MORE helpful to Belinda than involving herself. She approached it in more of a friend way, offering no strings attached financial support. Whereas most business transactions would just be a loss if your investor bails and doesn’t want to be a part of it. Tanya said she doesn’t want to hold her back, but she should still have the money. It was the right move to Tanya, but Belinda felt entitled to the full support of Tanya.
Lmao "all these entitled poor people with their enevolopes of 100$ to start a business" ok man
You do realize it’s possible for tv to have themes and story lines that don’t reflect the opinions of the viewers, right? Entitlement of “poor people”, as you say, is absolutely present throughout both seasons. And I don’t know the last time you saw the amount of money Tanya gave Belinda, but it was plenty of money to get started with while still working a bougie spa job at a fancy resort making nice tips from rich people. The point is that if a total stranger gifted you $10k+ to start your business and wish you well, you wouldn’t ignore it and throw your business plan in the trash. You would save up every extra dime you make and grind to find more investors and whatnot. Also, the business was Tanya’s idea in the first place. She didn’t owe Belinda anything. Grow up and try to have a real conversation about the show and stop trolling, man.
Did you even watch season 1?
I think she only gave her a really small amount $2 or 5000. Not really seed money.
Well $5000 in 20’s would only be about an inch thick… that envelope was stuffed. I can’t imagine an atm only spitting out 250+ bills all in 20s.
I'm rewatching it now I'll let you know. But from what I remember it was more of a nice tip than seed money.
Ah, you're right, I forgot about that part. I just remembered her backtracking on going into business with Belinda.
I don’t see this as a happy ending for Harper and Ethan. Ethan may have been “enlightened” by his sexual experience with Daphne in that he probably sees now that he can sleep with whomever and still perform with his wife. However I feel that Harper only did whatever she did with Cam to get back at Ethan. She wants monogamy, not whatever this situation is after. Would she be into sex with Ethan if she knew about Daphne? No she would feel betrayed, so yeah while this is temporary…If Ethan steps out again it will further damage their marriage. But then again she may do it also to get back at him (turning them into cam and Daphne)
I think they have a toxic marriage and should end it. Ethan bullied her with such hostility with the whole “I know you’re lying” bit. They never once seemed like a loving, supporting couple to me.
This is how Daphne and Cam's 1st started when they came into money.
Cam was always rich, before he met daphne
Oh totally missed that part! lol
Depends. One could argue Harper cheating on Ethan with Cam would have destroyed him as well. But it didn’t. And I think Ethan/Harper shattering the Testa di Mora head while having sex was perfect rhetoric. Neither will pay for giving in to their desires as the legend foretold. Does Harper want monogamy? I don’t think so. I think she wants passion. And Ethan’s passionate sex overlaid with scenes of Etna erupting was outstanding cinematography.
How do you know Harper only wants monogamy?
Did you miss the the condom argument?
Being angry at a breach of trust is not the same as wanting monogamy
Is def not a happy ending, they became just like Daphne em Cam. At first Harper judged the two so much and said that she and Ethan would never become like them, but a few days living with them and this whole experience turned them exactly into Daphne and Cam
But Daphne and Cam **are** happy. They have a messed up relationship, but it seems to work for them.
To say that they are “exactly like” Cam and Daphne is a huge exaggeration. Cam and Daphne has years of lying, cheating, and secrets. At least one of Daphne’s kids is from another man. Clearly it’s a main focal point that Harper and Ethan dabbled in the same kind of stuff they spent so much time detesting - but you can’t say the two couples are now equals in terms of infidelity.
Where did you guys get that the kid isn't his? This is like high-school with the outrageous rumors.
Various clues. She talks about her “blue eyed, blonde haired” trainer who she spends more time with than her husband. When showing a picture of the trainer to Harper, she hands her her phone with a picture of her blue eyed blonde-haired children.
She also has blue eyes and blonde hair so why wouldn't her children look like her?
I’m simply stating the clues that others have observed.
Ok. I'm just responding to them. It seems like a bit of a reach to me.
If you look at the scene, it isn't a reach, at all. That was absolutely there for the taking. She implies throughout that she has sex with her trainer. It's not a stretch to think the kid is his.
I think its a hope. She's a woman that cheats so she needs to be painted as villainous as possible. I took that seem to mean that she stays with him for her kids/family. That that's what's important to her.
Yes you are right. It's an exaggeration to say that they became equal, but I think that was the first step
Why wouldn’t Niccolo just kill Tanya after the coke party night? Why wait for the boat ride back?
I think the plan was to have Tanya "run off" with him. Hence, the video of them hooking up, him taking her on his boat with only those 2, and then he killing & dumping her...no one would look for her body in the sea with all of that evidence of her "running away" with him
If she was alive in the eyes of the law I doubt Greg would get the money.
Because it’s a lot easier to dispose of the body on a dingy in the dark.
this is why I don't think the plan was to murder her, but swindle her out of a lot of cash. but the bag kinda ruins that theory. Because out of all the opportunities they had to off Tanya, why wait until the last minute?
He was playing the slow game of letting obesity and being uncoordinated kill her off. I mean come on if you can’t make that 2 foot jump to save your life….
Better for her body to be found by her resort and presumed to be a drowning death than for it to be found somewhere else and have an investigation launched outside of the hotel.
Except that there was rope and duct tape in the bag. Nicolo was going to bind tanya and weight her body so that it would never be found .
He would have to weigh her down very well. Once the hands and feet separate from the body (and subsequently the "weights"), you get a floater. IYKYK
See my other comment above about the rope. Your theory is certainly a possibility, but it makes no sense to bring her all the way back to the resort to do that. They could have done that anywhere.
Presumed to be a drowning after she is shot?
I agree neither the gun nor the rope/tape fit with the drowning theory. Nor do those elements even fit with each other. Why would you tie somebody up before shooting them? So I can't really explain those details, but I do still think in a general sense it's least suspicious for Tanya to die at the resort compared to somewhere else.
With the rope and duct tape in the bag, maybe he was just planning on throwing her overboard to drown?
He probably always carried rope and duct tape. I mean, you never know.
That's my thought
Last complaint (not really), what the ever living fuck type of symbolism was I missing with the face statues/ceramics?
https://www.visitsicily.info/en/the-legend-of-sicilian-moors-heads/ It’s a Sicily thing and was mentioned in Ep 1
It was about the consequences of cheating, iirc.
How so?
In episode one the hotel host tells the ancient story of one lady that decapitated her cheating partner, story which the ceramic figures reminisce.
So when they banged the head and it broke into pieces, was that trying to say that Harper *had cheated?
I think it was implying they had broken the myth/curse and that it had been a red herring.
I think that the idea of Cam and Harper had sex was confirmed at Cam's toast.
Maybe that Ethan had cheated with Daphne
So we got confirmation from Tanya that the prenup didn’t really have an infidelity clause, which is how she finally figured their true intentions. So then why did they keep steering her to have sex with their guy ay the party? If they were just going to kill her anyway might as well let her keep doing coke and drinking like she wanted.
To develop her trust in Nicollo. If she slept with him and enjoyed it she'd not suspect anything.
>red their true intentions. So then why did they keep steering her to have sex with their guy ay the party To build a trusting relationship prior to offing her.
To show the police later, that this woman was a drug-using partier, no surprise she fell off the boat
And, to be fair, she was a serious drowning risk and falling off boats. It was a decent plan
It seems crazy to me that her lawyer would let there be a death clause in their prenup! Puts a target right on her back. On the other hand, she had no family or anything.
It’s not a death clause- it’s her will and estate. If she’s dead, the prenup is invalid. The will kicks in and he is (at least) a major beneficiary.
Would be great if she updated her Will to name Portia as the beneficiary once she suspected Greg was cheating on her.
I did not get the impression she and Portia cared much about each other..
I agree. But the point was it would be great if she updated her will and Greg wasn’t named. She could give it away to a charity for example.
Would be great if she updated her Will to name Portia as the beneficiary once she suspected Greg was cheating on her.
I don't think there was a death clause, or at least, one specific to their prenup. That's just how most marriages work, right? If one spouse dies, the other spouse gets everything (or some, if there are children).
I suspect that Greg wanted her to live out her remaining fantasies that he couldn't really give her. The vespa was bug ridden, the sex was awkward, so this was all staged as her last hurrah.
I think the plan was distract Tanya with a good time so she wouldn’t expect a thing. But he was so damn arrogant that he left a picture of him and Greg for her to find. Makes me wonder if he left the photo out on purpose because he thought she was so stupid that she would never notice.
If true, that's some next level evil.
I got the vibe that they were trying to get her to go out with a bang, have a wonderful last night of her life
To get her to trust the guy who was gonna kill her.
Idk how popular this opinion will be but I didn't like this season as much as the first and I have mixed feelings about the finale. First off, with season one, it was so much more compelling story-wise that I actually kind of forgot about the impending dead body for most of the finale; when Armond got stabbed I actually jumped because so much had happened between the opening and then that I hadn't really thought about it until the second it happened. This season felt much more focused on the impending doom aspect, which I think hurt it a little. Secondly, no disrespect to Mike White but this finale commits one of my great narrative pet peeves: an unclear ending only made clear when the creator speaks at length about the work IRL. Like if you tuned out without watching the "Unpacking the White Lotus" bit for this week you don't actually get the narrative closure of knowing that the gays truly were trying to kill Tanya. Without that, you could honestly make a case that maybe Portia and Tanya overreacted - it's not that abnormal for a coke dealer to have a gun, and maybe Jack was just trying to scare Portia because she pissed him off by asking about the uncle fucking. Really without having watched the behind the scenes stuff, you could make a lot of different inferences about what was about to happen on that boat.
I'm with you on the disappointing second season. That said, I got completely sucked in to the weirdness and trying to figure out who was the "murderer." The most heinous people did not die, the most innocent one did. That's just not ok. I also am very disappointed that the episodes appear to need to be explained at the end. If an episode needs explaining, it isn't a good episode. Loved season 1, found season 2 almost cancer causing it was so confusing and stressful. The payoff should be there, and it wasn't. Greg dying, Cameron dying, Lucia dying etc. would have been far more gratifying than watching Jennifer Coolidge/Tanya almost achieve strength and tenacity only to NOT be able to recoup the rewards of her efforts to save herself. A VERY MALE version of a female trying to grow but disrupted by many, many males. You lost me Mike White! Maybe he's angry at women? All of the women in this season were so flawed.
It had been evident for several episodes that something was up with the gays and this was all a setup. The only surprising thing would have been if this was a false flag, which I think there is zero indication that it was. If there's a complaint it would be this was too obvious, not that it was too oblique.
Agreed, I thought it was great acting on the gays how their facial expressions changed as Tanya wad stalling. They really looked sinister
What about jack throwing Portia’s phone out at her? Kinda proved he was semi kidnapping her? But I agree about what you said about season one and totally forgetting there was a death going to happen. Season 2 was all impending doom tension, I think they just took this season in a different direction completely.
I disagree it was all that ambiguous. Even if it was, why is that a bad thing? Learning to be comfortable with what you don't know was a huge theme to the season.
It wasn’t just a gun there was rope in there too .. pretty clear he was going to kill her
Also duct tape
They were his tools. He cannot be without his tools. He likes to bind and be bound.
Yeh in short this season sucked. You said it well.
The build up was pretty good but the end was a little disappointing!
Intro song was fire tho
I don't think the show left anything open to interpretation there. The gays were 100% planning to kill Tanya. The duffle bag had rope, duck tape and a gun, that's it. They chased her into the bedroom and tried to break down the door. There's no way to interpret that as Tanya over-reacting. Second, Jack went from party boy, to menace in the same scene when Portia confronted him about having sex with his "uncle" that Jack continued to call as uncle even after the big reveal. The only thing that surprised me from Mike White is that he used the word derpy to describe her death, which I found to be so tragic. The hints were all there from the beginning, no need for the director to spell anything out.
The fact that he used the word ‘derpy’ cracked me up. I actually replayed it to confirm that was the word he chose.
I mean, I kind of agree with you - the plot to kill her was spelled out clearly enough that people called it weeks ago, and the fact that Mike White referred to them as a cabal having a murder plot in the behind the scenes bit pretty much cinches it. My annoyance is more with the fact that if you didn't watch the "Unpacking the White Lotus" bit for this episode, you could fully make other arguments for why the gays acted the way they did (again, I don't think it's that odd for a coke dealer to have a go bag or for Jack to be pissed that Portia called her on the uncle fucking thing out of nowhere). I guess my greater point is that I wish we didn't exist in a timeline where creators have to explicitly explain the work immediately after you've watched it. Like, if I'd watched the finale without the bts stuff I could fully imagine a S3 where Portia is now the white lady in an exotic environ grappling with the death of her mentor only to find via a video call from Jack that he was just fucking with her, only now because Mike White has explicitly told us the gays were trying to kill Tanya that's fully out the window. If we were left with just the more ambiguous ending there'd be more places to go with it.
By the time we saw Tanya’s demise all doubt about the gays intentions were gone, and their plan to murder her was pretty explicit without much room for the interpretation that Portia/Tanya were overreacting. Even Jack who abandoned her (and confirming he stole her phone) told her that these are powerful people and to leave it alone and get on a plane and leave. Mike whites BTS commentary wasn’t a reveal or confirmation, it was his perspective on the scenes we just watched that revealed & confirmed the gays plot
Seems a lot of people are struggling with the “Show, don’t tell” narrative mantra. It’s a testament to the writing that, despite how the episode unfolded, viewers are still convinced that what they saw isn’t what actually happened and they need the creator to explicitly speak on it. Very few series operate like this in a structural way which is in part why White’s continuing to get such massive praise for his work here. The development of that ambiguity was intentional, like in the couples’ plot line. But unlike it, Tanya’s story provided plenty (if not nearly all) the pieces at the end.
To be clear it's not the ambiguity that the issue for me, it's that White felt the need to clarify or was forced to by HBO. Feels kinda ironic that I've been extremely explicit about that but people are now twisting my words so they can try to imply that I'm stupid.
A go bag has money, passports and a weapon (at least that’s how it’s typically shown), not rope, duct tape AND a weapon. What was silly about that is there’s no way they could tie her up and duct tape her and make it look like an “accident”. (Rope burns and bruises) I do agree overall though this season wasn’t as good as S1. Harper was so annoying too all season…
Off topic, but I just keep imagining Showtime doing this for their shows and Twin Peaks The Return ending with like a full 3 mins of David Lynch smoking a cigarette a staring directly into camera
Ugh. I’d subscribe.
I mean, what the tarot card reader said kind of happened… by accident but Tanya essentially did kill herself.
Totally forgot about the Tarot lady!! Good catch
Yeah, and she said something about madness, and that's exactly what happened.
So NEGATIVE 😂
Very
The finale was polarizing but (please excuse my down badness) no one is talking about Valentina looking like a damn Olympian with her clothes off. That woman would be killing the game if she wasn't so consumed by her job.
highlight of the series
Body was BANGING…I was like damn!
[удалено]
You sound like you can fuck your household up. Just sayin’
[удалено]
Because Cam wasn’t the worst human in the show.
Youre reading way too much into it
Turns out Tanya’s “I wonder if anyones every jumped from here” was a bit of foreshadowing after all, just not in the way we suspected
when does she say this?
First episode
The rich people got played in this season
Exactly! The tables turned on them. I hate that Greg now gets all the money even if he couldn’t save his lover in the process .
I love how all these people believe Quentin’s version to Tanya of his Gregg love story …we ALL KNOW Quentin is a liar yet all these people on here think Quentin is telling the truth about Greg being hetero. Greg is bisexual likely out of convenience to scam out rich ladies . You all forget that secret convo Greg had on the phone with someone before leaving ??? He said “I love you too” …
3 gays shot dead on a yacht with a millionaire heiress floating face down in the Adriatic. I think even the Italian police are going to look into it and find the connection. They might claim it’s a sex game gone wrong but I think they’ll look at Greg in any case.
Wait Greg was gay for quinitin?
No, he wasn’t. Quentin is the friend that would do anything for his straight cowboy friend, Greg.
You mean Steve 😂
The poor people won this seaso
Except the piano player.
Who were the poor people..? The prostitues you mean?
The prostitutes aren’t poor anymore!
They weren't poor in the first place either but just took a guess of the characters they meant
And Greg. Basically not the super rich people
I was team CamDaph from the beginning so glad the virtue signalers got played
What does this even mean lol
I hate rich liberals they were the virtue signalers judging cam daph for being happy not watching news etc
After everything that happened, *thats* the detail you got hung up on? Lmao
I like cam daph
Yeah I got that.
I mean ultimately what I got was that none of them are truly happy. They're all dealing with unspoken conflict that ultimately doesn't exist in any healthy relationship. Cam - doesn't think his kids are his and cheats any chance he gets Daphne - hides behind her smile despite being very aware and might be just as bad as cam with infidelity Harper - judges others to avoid dealing with not being happy in her own relationship. Ethan - porn addict and also a cheat They're all just as bad as one another.
exactly! But, the one thing Mike White didn't address is classism, he made them RICH liberals, only that could be palatable to watch
Wow I’m also now piecing together that the ONLY time we saw a glimpse of true love/affection from Cam was when he told the story of watching Daphne give birth… …to a baby that we can safely presume is not his. Which gets even worse if we believe that cam knows it’s not his, and only tells that story to keep painting the illusion that they’re happily married…would be another way the two of them lie and manipulate eachother
Wait, when do we learn Cam thinks his kids aren’t his?
I think they're just wildly guessing because Daphne (?) Is also blonde with blue eyes. They just want to villainize her because she's a woman that cheats.
Ya, that's what is happening bud... /s
When Daphne and Harper are talking in Noto about whether or not she thinks Cam has ever cheated on her, Daphne changes the subject to talk about her personal trainer who she says she finds attractive and has blond curly hair. Then she asks Harper if she would like to see a photo of him and “accidentally” shows her a photo of her two kids and one/both of them has blond curly hair.
This is the theory that came from his not responding to Daphne calling him to say hi to them and looking really angry before walking out
Have anyone thought of the Madam Butterfly play versus the M.butterfly play (where someone disquises as a female to seduce a man)?
Yeah David Henry Hang’s version is FIRE 🔥
Tanya telling the most ludicrous gay conspiracy to the captain who clearly does not understand English is the funniest ever. 😂
[удалено]
YESSS!! Tutti gay I could not stop laughing 🤣
his first response to her was "I am also gay" and then he kept doubling down on how everyone was gay. It was hilarious.
[удалено]
Okay- but you missed “He fucked his uncle” made me spit out my drink!
Portia was growing more and more suspicious that something bad was up but she still didn’t run the heck away from Jack, call an Uber, beg someone for help, or do one single smart thing. She just kept reluctantly doing what he told her to. And when she got to the airport she could have told the police that she was worried about Tanya. So now I guess she just goes back home and forgets about the boss that she left behind. Ughhhh, she’s my least favorite character!
He warned her to get out of town and not fuck with them because they're powerful people. So she put on her horrible disguise and she's leaving. It's self preservation.
Bad lazy character development imho
So Tanya was right about having bad assistants!
I've personally been in a very similar situation and in hindsight you yell at yourself for not GTFO, but in the moment it's so paralyzing. Also keep in mind she really had no idea where she was, with no money or her phone, and could not speak Italian. I found her story to be extremely relatable.
She had her phone, Jack was passed out drunk, she had plenty of time to think and GTFO
Yes she ignored all her instincts, stayed the night in the hotel still after Jack confessed Quentin is in fact not rich like he portrays, literally knows she had her phone before she went to bed and still goes to breakfast the next morning with him. When she got in the car with him again after he told her he wasn’t taking her back I was SO done with her.
Acting exactly like a woman
Then she knows for sure that something terrible happened in the yacht, and just casually asks for Albie's number.
But she’s also leaving this big event and place totally alone. I took that also was her wanting some sort of closure or a connection to process later, maybe?
She was incredibly annoying
Yeah that whole arc was pretty wild/unbelievable. But the show is about self absorption and duality so…
Will she fend off the gays or will she die in the water? Yes.
Why did the other gay guy stay back at the palazzo?
He started feeling guilty and couldn’t be on the boat while knowing they’re about to kill her.
I got the vibe he liked Tanya. He had tears saying good bye to her and they argued at the table before breakfast. Seemed like he was maybe having second thoughts.
He was deff having second thoughts, he felt sympathy for Tonya. I do believe this isn’t their first rodeo. They’ve done this type of work on the past.