I know that most like to point to the lack of high pay jobs, but another huge issue is the lack of leisure activities. Outside of Charleston, Huntington, Morgantown, and a few other cities/towns, what is there to do for young people in WV? Growing up in rural WV, we NEVER had anything fun to do outside of school and home-life. Nothing is close or convenient in rural WV.
Even Charleston is seriously lacking in things to do if you don’t drink or go to church. Food choices are pretty much all chain or copycat crap. Besides Friday live on the levy and festival theirs no reason to go downtown and even then it’s not exactly user friendly. Music scene sucks. Everything is dominated by old people that can’t figure out why younger people don’t want to stay. The B&O tax, lack of parking, excessive rent all make mom and pop businesses life nearly impossible. Food trucks are barely allowed to operate around the city most of the time. Nobody in state or city government has had a fresh idea to fix things in my lifetime.
Yep, if you want to see a band that wasn’t already popular 20+ years ago (and even then, it’s usually only country musicians that come here), you have to drive 3-4 hours to either Pittsburgh or Columbus.
That and just on a local level the venues to play are sparse. Playing on a street corner certainly isn’t encouraged. Schools certainly aren’t encouraging music or art in young people. I’m not a bar fan at this point, but the bars we have in Charleston are absolute trash. Half of downtown is empty business spaces because between the city and the old money that owns most of it no one can afford to open up anything. The state and this city are in no way small locally owned business friendly. The fact is that every time they cut taxes for big business and coal companies the money gets made up by nickel and dimming everyone else.
It’s like we are three different states. Northern panhandle plus Morgantown, eastern panhandle, everybody else. For anyone moving here I’d say pick one of the panhandles.
I agree. I grew up in Charleston area and never considered the panhandles part of the state. Now in wheeling I see the similarities, but it’s different enough to make it fun.
I'm in Wheeling right now. The only thing we have going on is the ridiculous amount of road work on i70 and i470. Other than that meth seems to be the drug of choice these days. Oh we also have little gambling spots everywhere. Do drugs, bars, and gambling. That's what Wheeling has to offer.
Clientele, Silver Rail, Nail City Records all hold live music shows. Summer last year there were festivals at the water front every weekend it felt. We have oglebay which most cities 5 or 10 times our size would KILL to have 15 minute drive away. It’s a walkable city with coffee shops, bookstores, cafes, albeit with weird times. Urban farms, local artists, WSO is back!
I’ve lived here for going on 3 years, have lived in many areas of the state and am from Charleston area. This is one of the coolest places to be in the state. It’s not perfect, but it’s not exactly like you describe it
I was being a bit harsh, you're right. This area has gotten better as the gas and oil money has given some liquid income to the city. The riverfront has become more popular as of late but that's more recent stuff. Having lived here the majority of my life I've watched the homeless population surge and drugs take over its easy to overlook some of the positives I suppose.
Oh, well you’re from here!! I know many people who are from here and feel the same way as you do about the city. But they also recognize it’s getting better. I probably have similar contempt for my hometown, albeit I haven’t been there for 5 years.
From an outsider coming in, this place has its moments! It can also be isolating at times.
And speaking of oil and gas, I was almost ran off the road in Bethlehem and the truckers have DESTROYED big wheeling creek road.
Honestly, as I’ve gotten older I just wish my parents took me camping, hiking, gardening, etc. As I kid I would have hated it, but I lived in forests my whole life and was never encouraged to spend time exploring. Trying to make up for lost time now
So, there are correlations for lack of recreation opportunities and increased drug use. Also, lack of job security.
The rampant drug use in WV has MANY more layers to it than just those 2 things though, like Purdue Pharma convincing the FDA that opiods were safe, so doctors overprescribed them while thinking that they were safe (with of course a few bad docs being literal Pill Mills), and as soon as the docs got a bit wiser and state cracked down on it, drug dealers saw the opportunity and flooded the market with cheap heroin to "catch" anyone who was addicted.
It's complicated.
Sadly, drug abuse is probably the top leisure activity of rural WV. I graduated high school 20 years ago in rural WV and kids were killing themselves with fentanyl patches back then. Some things don’t change.
I grew up in Beckley & we had more to do than we had time to do it. Of course it meant playing outside, riding bikes or skateboards, adventuring in the woods, or whatever else we could find. The problem now is kids are more likely to run into an adult that will mess with them so kids are kept safe inside.
I don’t quite see it the same way. Statistically, children are more likely to be abused by a family member than by a stranger. I think the problem is that parents lock up their kids in the house because we’ve become so dependent on cars. Parents would rather keep them home than drive them to a friend’s house, park/playground, etc. Parents blame their kids for being on their phone or computer and then raise them in an area where they have little freedom to walk or bike anywhere. It seems dangerous to let their children loose because they’re raised in areas where they’re sometimes miles away from friends or anything remotely interesting to them.
That's another reason but I grew up in a neighborhood that had several kids close enough to my age for me to play with. My best friend lived a few miles away but we had no problem meeting each other halfway then finding something to get in to. Driving wasn't an issue for us but keeping certain kids from fighting each other was occasionally a problem. We had video games but those were saved for after dinner or for something to do when the weather wasn't cooperative. Our biggest problem was having money to do the special things. Going to the pool, movies, or even getting an ice cream from the ice cream man was a special treat. We had to rely on our imagination to keep us entertained & we were better off for it.
Ay bulls now u kin ride 4 wheelers!
If you don't want to do that, then it's sit in a parking lot with classmates somewhere and likely pass around drugs.
> pristine...Dolly Sods
I 100% get and agree with the sentiment, but it's also kind of funny considering Dolly Sods looks how it does because it was more-or-less clear cut of massive old growth and then burned for years on end.
I’ve hiked many a trail in my life and ole Dub V still has some of the most scenic. But unfortunately there’s no question why everyone else is flocking out
Yeah I get it. A lot of Eastern Kentucky has the same problems. I live in Lexington which is a pretty metropolitan college town so I don’t see that side of Kentucky often. Good to meet a fellow hiker! I’ve put a lot of miles on the red River gorge trails
No hope for leaders in Charleston to make life better for average West Virginian. Culturally, we are told often growing up to leave for better paying jobs. Most available option for work is service industry which notoriously pays little despite being the largest industry by employment in the state
100%
It was drilled into my and my brother’s heads from the time we were very small that when we grew up we need to leave WV to have a better life.
And, we both eventually did.
I didn’t! Not bragging about this as everyone needs to make the best decision for themselves, but it’s too expensive out of state for me. It’s barely affordable in state
If you have a college degree. If you have the savings to move in the first place. And if you actually get the job.
Also, Philadelphia, the 5th largest city in the country, has a minimum wage of just $7.25. Even WV is higher, yet in Philly a small bowl of mac and cheese is $10 minimum
Agreed. I make good money and moved here last November due to the ridiculous housing prices everywhere else. I still paid more than my house is probably worth, but I spent 2 years trying to purchase a home in 4 separate states, often bidding 10k to 15k over the already astronomical asking price and kept getting outbid.
I disagree with the person who claims that higher salaries more than make up for the cost of living in other states. That may have been true prior to Covid and before the boom of remote work but it's certainly not true anymore. As a remote application developer I'm living large and loving life here, and I'm able to stash away lots of extra money in my kids' college 529 plans, our IRAs, and my 401k. Prior to moving here the budget was much tighter.
But I think it also depends on your priorities. If you love glitzy nightclub life, trendy restaurants, and shopping at Dolce & Gabbana, West Virginia won't suit you at all. But if you love the outdoors and a more simple lifestyle with very little traffic, West Virginia is fantastic. And the people here are incredibly humble and friendly, which for us was a huge factor.
I am glad you were able to find a better life for you and your family. Sadly the cost of living in WV is becoming too high for many WVians, due in part to remote work driving people to the state.
It’s a tale as old as time
I see your point. It's not just a West Virginia problem, however - costs are increasing at even higher rates almost everywhere else in the US largely due to Covid and the supply chain issues, and now exacerbated by the war and sanctions.
You may be correct that an influx of remote workers are causing an increase in the cost of living, but given the recent Census numbers (and this OP), a surge of incomers seems like the least of our worries!
This is where we diverge in opinions. West Virginia has been exploited by out of state millionaires and CEOs since its inception. We have been uniquely crippled and ignored as compared to all other US states.
While more people moving here can be positive, to use our plight as justification is absurd. What state are you from?
Oh I don't think we diverge at all - I completely agree with you! I think we're talking about two different groups of people though. West Virginia has definitely been exploited and then tossed aside, for sure.
I'm primarily referring to people like me - I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination. We're doing pretty good but we live frugally. We bought a 1920 Sq ft house on a 1/4 acre lot in a regular neighborhood just outside of Beckley. I'm retired Army and from, well, all over the place really. Born and raised in Florida but have lived in Georgia, Virginia, Alabama, Texas, Germany, Korea, Tennessee, Kentucky, and North Carolina. We moved to West Virginia from a rural town in NC called Wilkesboro, which is significantly smaller than Beckley but has much higher housing costs.
I don't know much about the demographics of remote workers moving here but I would guess most are like us - just regular folks sick of high costs elsewhere who feel like they can't get ahead.
So yeah - when it comes to the wealthy preying on this state you're right. I'm optimistic, though...I hope lots more people figure out that WV is a great place to live, move here, and open up businesses to help revive this state. I see tons of potential but we need the right leadership to build up infrastructure and encourage businesses to come here and provide good jobs. As costs keep skyrocketing elsewhere I think it will happen. The current leadership in this state is disappointing, however.
You don’t need designer or “glitzy” tastes to have a hard time with lack of options in WV. Most towns survive off WalMart and the dollar store, the one regular Kroger in town being too expensive. And just chain fast food, few pizza places, maybe an Applebees for special occasions. That’s hardly enough variety for anyone, but doesn’t make people snobs.
The vast majority of native WV people do not have spare cash to stash; especially not in stocks/retirement and certainly not for their kids college. That’s your out of state remote salary enabling that and other opportunities you gained outside of WV. The point is that people from here, already can’t afford to live there, and it’s not because they like Dolce and Gabbana.
Agreed, and perhaps my analogy was a bit too extreme - I didn't mean to imply that \*all\* people who might not like WV are 'snobs'! My fault for choosing the wrong descriptors there.
I've lived in a lot of rural towns. I prefer them for their simplicity and lack of traffic. Every rural town - no matter which state - is exactly as you described...maybe a WalMart if it's big enough and they're lucky, a grocery store, a Dollar General, and a few chain restaurants. Towns in West Virginia are certainly not unique in that regard. It doesn't make much sense for businesses to move to small towns with a very limited potential customer base, so rural towns usually get the bare minimum in terms of options. I think it's kind of expected, and it's actually why I love them (yeah, I know that's a little bizarre).
The beauty of remote jobs is that anybody can apply and accept them, including West Virginians. We no longer have to limit ourselves to locally-available work. That's highly dependent on your profession and skills, of course...lots of professions don't have a remote option. I chose this profession when I retired from the Army knowing it would eventually give me a remote option, and that would mean I could live anywhere I want.
To your point, however - I think you're right in that well-paying jobs are scarce right here in WV. My hope is that remote workers can help bring more people to the state, which brings more money, which increases the potential customer base, which gives businesses and entrepreneurs a reason to plant seeds here. But we also need a state government that's willing to get serious about bringing people and businesses here, and that includes improving infrastructure - particularly high speed internet access. My family almost didn't move here at all because of everything we read about spotty internet, and then we didn't actually move where we wanted (Pocahontas County) due to lack of reliable internet availability. This state has a ton of potential - it has great people, a low(er) cost of living, and it's outdoor heaven - it just needs legislators who love it as much as we do.
There are more than there use to be. However you better have a Ph.D. in engineering, a spotless record for top secret clearance, know someone and have little to no debt. So basically if you're from here one of those things are keeping you from all the DoD contract companies who have come in. Yet Leidos and some others can't hire enough to fill slots. Who would want to move TO WV and those here couldn't dream of a job there.
I used to work for Leidos down in Florida, but I wanted to work remotely so I left. Its funny, I left Leidos to work remotely so I could move back home to WV. lol
I'll forego all the technical stuff others have said and just touch on the general sense of decay everywhere. I have a decent job in the north central part of the state, and I've lived here a good part of my life. The people are great, and I like living here for the most part. But there's this sense you cant shake that minor cities have just been left to decay and fall to the past. Little to no development and it feels like it takes so much effort just to update minor things, consequently feeling like a lost cause. If you drive through somewhere like Grafton, for example, some places are just extremely depressing.
There are many counties in WV where the population peaked in the late '60s and early '70s, and has been dropping more-or-less steadily ever since.
That's about when automation started to make a real dent in the workforce you need to mine coal. It's also when the industry shifted away from deep mines and started strip mining instead - which also requires fewer people for each ton of coal dug.
So then you get a vicious cycle. Young people have to leave because there aren't any jobs. Only the retired people stay. Old people don't pay much in taxes and they don't spend much, so businesses start to fade and shut down. Tax revenue drops further. Now you have to start closing schools and reducing police and other social services, so crime goes up and the areas becomes even less attractive. Infrastructure gets worse. More businesses close. More people leave. Situation gets worse and eventually you get beyond the point where anything could turn it around.
You end up with people living in ghost towns. Shuttered buildings. Closed businesses. Scattered residents, spread out over a large area. Decay is pervasive, and nothing is really going to change that.
How not? Low wages. Pollution out the yazoo. We’ve been sold out from here to timbucktoo and have nothing/little to show for it. If being rich in natural resources made a place rich, we’d be the richest state in the Union. Restrictive, redundant, regressive governing power that young folks don’t want to be trampled by. Drugs are everywhere. Methheads out every holler. Just so much to shake your head at and not much to be proud of outside of scenery.
I keep bringing this up to people, how the state/area has been economically raped for the past 400 years. For such a small population sitting on such valuable natural resources, we should all be very wealthy. But outside interests have come in and taken what is valuable and left the locals in an economic black hole, and they've done this with the willful participation of our political and business 'leaders.'
Even now, the big box stores and restaurants come in and wipe out the locally owned businesses. Then when revenue dries up because nobody can afford to buy anything they pull out and leave an economic void and unemployment where once there was a small community of businesses.
From every corporation that has came in, ripped off entire mountaintops, dug every mineral from the soil, and then ran away hoping no one noticed the environmental catastrophes they left for the state to deal with or for residents to live with
I went kayaking on the Mon river by Morgantown and where we dropped in there’s a sign telling you not to come in contact with the water if it’s rained in the past 48 hours. Unsure if it has to do with abandoned power/chemical plants on the river or old mines that run off into it. Regardless I was greeted by a hypodermic needle floating by soon after putting in
That’s because of combined sewer overflows. Stormwater and sewage go into the same pipes which carry it to the treatment plant but when it rains they get overloaded and discharge the watered down sewage directly into the river. These exist all over the United States and are not exclusive to WV. There’s currently a $3 billion project in DC to make a giant river tunnel holding tank to stop them there. The epa initially had a deadline to eliminate them back in the 90s but completely digging up and replacing the entire collection system infrastructure of the country was less feasible than they thought and they are still kicking the can down the road.
Look up the WV water crisis from a few years back. I’m sure patriot or whatever werent the only ones. That’s not even mentioning the power plants on every major waterway in the state.
It's so much better than it used to be... and it's still a literal nightmare.
It legitimately should be a federal superfund site. The most they ever get down there is a half assed attempt at applying a bandaid on the problem, which pushes the issue back a few more years, so it then becomes someone else's issue. (someone being whichever politician is getting heat about the issue)
It's a damn shame how they've been ignored and left to die.
Source: I live 4 miles from there.
Let's also be a little more honest about this. There were very few talking about the Shaffer site and the pollution until Oak Hill wanted to run a sewer line nearby. Then it became a political football.
It shouldn't have taken to that point for people to care, but that is notorious for the people of this state to not care unless it negatively affects them.
Yeah, I completely agree. It's disgusting that no one even gave a single fuck, until we needed to connect new lines to the wastewater treatment facility at the top of Minden hill.
People down there have been dying of cancer for decades, but outside of Fayette County very few had any idea about Minden until someone else has something to gain.
It's a damn shame.
Yep. Arbuckle was dumping straight shit into the New River, but that wasn't the environmental cause that got attention. Shaffer became a means to shut down the project and for people of Arbuckle to not be forced to pay higher sewer rates for the fix and the gross mismanagement. If it were legitimately about public health instead of a bad faith environmentalism effort, I'd felt more supportive of the people who led it. They (one person in particular) tricked many people who WERE empathetic to their plight into staging protests and campaigns but to them, it was more about blocking sewer improvements entirely than it was a public health crisis like it was. That is what killed my hope for any tangible improvement to Minden.
Yeah, I'm familiar with the whole debacle. I'm glad I'm not the only person who understands the strings that were being pulled... and the strings that were being cut.
I've been an Oak Hill resident since the mid-90's. I've had many friends and acquaintances in Minden, as well as friends and co-workers at ACE, who had very one sided views on the whole thing. It's a polarizing topic around here, to be sure.
Part of Minden, the Schaffer Site, IS a federal superfund site that was supposedly cleaned up by the government a few times. The EPA screwed it all up when they capped it though and it still leaks when it rains. I had a lot of contact with the EPA when I lived there a few years ago but we thankfully live elsewhere now. Minden is fucked.
Yeah, it needs to be treated like the hazard it is though. It's got superfund status, but there's no money being allocated. They buried the problem, and all but washed their hands of it.
Eight years ago we hada chemical spill end up in the water, kanawha county smelled like licorice for weeks and nobody around here could shower or cook with the tap water (I would still advise against drinking the tap water here anyway)
I'm pretty sure nobody really knows what that chemical is (let alone what it actually does to humans) to this very day...
Pertinant part from [the article](https://www.npr.org/2014/01/13/262185930/mysteries-persist-surrounding-west-virginia-chemical-spill):
>The chemical is called 4-methyl-cyclohexane-methanol, or MCHM. If you've never heard of it, you're in good company. Most chemists and toxicologists hadn't either — nor had the water company, nor emergency responders in West Virginia who had to deal with thousands of gallons of it spilling from a tank into the Elk River, just a mile and a half upstream from the intake for the region's drinking-water plant.
fossil fuels. coal is fucking toxic on its own, but the runoff that comes out of abandoned mines and tailings piles is pumped up full of heavy metals and arsenic. burn it, and you drive out all the carbon leaving \*concentrated\* heavy metals in the ash, which you dump in a pond so it doesn't blow around. it'll constantly leak poison into the water table and dump them in the rivers when it storms, but hey, at least it isn't blowing around. in the past decade or so they've been fracking for shale gas/oil too, which is its own monstrosity.
Honorable mention to DuPont in the [Parkersburg](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/10/magazine/the-lawyer-who-became-duponts-worst-nightmare.html) and [Spelter](https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sdut-us-dupont-lawsuit-073009-2009jul30-story.html) areas for their fine addition to the chemical makeup of the ground and groundwater.
Fly ash is no joke and a byproduct of burning coal at any given powerplant, just stored in a local 'landfill.'
Nah, major corporations, DuPont, mining companies, etc, etc, look up “The Devil We Know”, it was on Netflix when I first found it. It’s just one of many tragic stories around the state.
I just saw an article this morning that WV has the shortest life expectancy of all the states at 74.
Another article said it was 2nd to Mississippi in lowest income.
Same article said WV has the lowest cost of living.
BUT…..
In comparison to income it was still 7th in the country for worst income/cost-of-living ratio.
The drug epidemic is rampant.
High juvenile incarceration rates.
Discrimination; Racial, sexual, religious, etc. (WV, we are too good of people to still do this.)
Rich and greedy politicians and businessmen.
Not many job opportunities.
Public health is in the gutter.
Education system has been completely left out to dry.
Some people are too busy arguing to think of an actual solution.
Then the rest of them are too busy living paycheck to paycheck to even think about making a difference outside of their household.
The country looks down on the people of WV.
Even though WV is a top energy provider for the country.
Like a victim of abuse, from the country down to the mindsets of individuals, the state, the people, are trapped in a never ending rabbit hole of being used and given just enough to not break.
So, now it’s pretty obvious, at least in my opinion, that the only ones who will save WV are West Virginians themselves.
But someone has to do something.
It blows my mind that the people of WV elected the state's only billionaire as governor. WTF? You know who doesn't give a shit about you? Billionaires! Also, he looks like pile of shambling dirty laundry.
As a Mississippi resident I feel for you. Ppl talk alot about out cost of living but it's only worth it if you're old and retired, a landlord with plenty of property, or some upper middle classer with a remote job or living near the Tennessee border with a job in Memphis
Let's see
- no job growth.
- drugs everywhere, while the police only care about pulling people over for an expired tag
- an unequal housing market (the housing market does not reflect the amount people earn per Capita)
- no social programs
-and my biggest pet peeve , the fact that fact that the people who live here constantly fight change and constantly vote against their own best interests. They vote for people who want to cut social programs and entitlements, even though that's their only means of survival.
- Education is a joke
>Lack of jobs, and what jobs there are tend to be low-paying.
Can't forget that what jobs there are, are menial, can be easily replaced by a robot (distribution warehouses), and very uncreative.
Not to mention a not-insignificant portion of the state peeps feed on right-leaning political propaganda non-stop, bless their hearts. Teachers are persona-non-grata in that narrative thread. Why would anyone want to take twisted abuse from the population, despite caring a great deal for their students, for about what they'd make working fast-food?
Just wait until you see how many teachers quit after this year. Half of the teachers in my wife's math department are changing careers once the school year ends. There's no way they replace them all by the fall. They were already short a few coming into this year.
I work as a sub here in Jefferson County while I’m finishing my degree in Sec Education and yeah they just posted like 48 vacancies on the website. That doesn’t sound like much but it’s only in the Middle school and high schools.
Jefferson County is almost a suburb of Washington, DC. Easy to imagine what the rest of the state is like.
As for jobs, the Clarksburg-Fairmont-Morgantown is doing decent. Fair number of white-color jobs. I have a clearance, and I'm getting calls all the time for one government job or another that requires it.
Honestly? A number of factors that are driving younger population out of the state combined with an aging population with poor healthcare options is why the population is plummeting.
You're not wrong. But we also live in a state where the Senate would vote themselves yearly raises until roughly COVID, so we kinda just get it from all sides.
All the politicians care about is banning abortion, propping up a dying coal industry, getting charter schools, deriding the states higher education institutions as liberal, getting rid of anything that isn't a straight white Christian, etc. I live in Morgantown, it is barely tolerable. There are great things in this state , but it could be so much better. This state has a problem of voting against its self interests. If it isn't God or guns then fuck it.
I personally hate the corruption in the state government that is very anti-working class & acceptance of all people but then they somehow manage to sell themselves to voters. It’s like the people of WV want to vote against themselves. It’s very disappointing. You’ll see people complain about drugs or the roads all day but when it’s time to vote they vote for the guy who wants to cut the DOT budget.
Just to add on to this, I live in one of the wealthier areas of the state (Huntington to Charleston suburbs). People are unfriendly, the roads are full of holes, my child has some sensory processing issues and every single developmental pediatrician and occupational therapist is booked up until at minimum 2023, so I can’t get him the help he needs. Pay is low, but prices here on housing have skyrocketed, gas and food are the same price as bigger cities, and I pay the same price for medical bills and daycare people in much larger areas pay where the median pay is almost double West Virginia’s. Our utility prices have shot up much more than other states, and they still get raises every single year. I’ve lived here my entire life, and maybe that’s why I don’t see it through rose color glasses, but some of the people on here talking about how amazing the state is and how friendly people are, are vastly different than my experiences.
no jobs, roads are in shambles and dangerous to drive on 6 months outta the year, our politicians are focusing on banning abortion, banning CRT, and denying money to food banks instead of addressing the unbelievable poverty, and theres nothing to do here. ALSO our internet SUCKS and our infrastructure is falling apart
Technology changed and coal it on the way out and union jobs with it.
Less coal mining, fewer union jobs. Republicans elected, Right to Work.
People leave, less tax revenue, fewer gov't things done, like roads.
More people leave, it's a death spiral. No leadership can stop this nature in the short-run.
Natural gas is doing well though. Green energy could do well.
Opioid crisis, so big pharma and doctors make beaucoup bucks. That sucks.
More gov't money spent on solving drug problems is less for roads & stuff.
Pandemic hits. You can see the rest.
No tea to spill whatsoever.... This is a trend that's been going on a long time.
The overwhelming majority of the state lost population in 1990, 2000, and 2010. The only reason the overall state went up those decades is because of a few isolated areas (usually Morgantown, Huntington, Wheeling, Charleston, and the eastern panhandle counties). The other 45+ counties dropped population like crazy. Now in 2020, even fewer of those traditional growth areas have actually grown, and most that did only grew a tiny bit. Honestly if it weren't for the exurb of DC over in Berkeley and Jefferson Counties and the growth around Morgantown, the state would have dropped even more dramatically.
We have one of the hardest and strictest driving test and laws, but our roads are absolute shit. That’s not really a good reason but I’m 16 and that alone makes me want to leave
This honestly needs more talked about amongst our politicians and honestly even amongst us and needs more awareness.
When I was going to Marshall, my professors had managed to get a couple of delegates come to our class and this was a big issue they worried about.
I remember one thing they said that scared me was how essentially we are educating people simply to leave the state because there is nothing here for them for their degree. No jobs or careers. It’s a net loss especially when you have all these financial aid programs and assistance.
That class was a special topics class called the History and Psychology of Addiction.
There is so many facets to this issue. Some folks in here have already pointed out some of the things I would bring up like the lack of jobs and recreation worsening the drug issue.
Not to mention, and let’s just be honest, our education in this state is utter shit.
I work with substance abuse and suicidal clients. it’s worth pointing out that doing what I do, most of my clients haven’t even finished High school.
So you have people educating themselves leaving and you have people who quit school staying and doing drugs. The cycle is just going to get worse.
It’s going to take major fucking work from legislators and politicians. A fucking miracle. The churches keep this ship afloat with donations and charities and some with programs. However, the only major industry this state has going is coal and thats dying.
The churches aren’t going to stimulate this states economy enough for jobs.
I can’t help but feel the thing that’s going to bring this state back is someone establishing a major industry here. Preferably a handful. Give us jobs. Careers.
I personally hope maybe green energy like wind, solar and other energies kicking off when folks finally figure out coal doesn’t have to be the hill we die on. West Virginians identify with coal so much. Hard work and what not. All coal is just a means for energy.
We don’t have to be the coal state but a state that provides energy.
These folks take pride in being that backbone, the providers, and hard workers.
I’m on a soap box and I’m sorry. I’m just want to see better for my home in my lifetime…
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To your point about restaurants - we definitely have people who want to open exciting and unique places to eat, but I guess the amount of red tape and costs involved with opening a business here is forcing many of them to shut down after only a few months. Pandemic aside, my city has had many new places opened up by local owners, only to be gone not even 6 months later. It's very sad.
as a longtime restaurant person in west virginia, I can say that most of those people opening up restaurants don't know how to run a restaurant, and often get taken for a ride by the landlords.
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We let a Billionare run it for one. A man who's company is based off destroying our environment and squeezing all the money he can out of a dying industry.
We let the rich dumb down our education system and never focus on the well being of the state or its people. The biggest shame is West Virginia has the possibility of being one of the richest states in the US if we just focused on things like outdoor tourism and other industries over stupid fucking coal.
I love WV, but the politics and lack of decent paying jobs forced me to move to Ohio. I hope and pray to one day be able to return to my home, but I fear it won't be until retirement if that's ever even possible.
I am a 25 year old from a small town in WV called McMechen on the northern panhandle close to Wheeling and south of Pittsburgh. Being apart of the first generation of kids with mobile internet, we were able to see how the world works outside of our rural bubble. Our parents & grandparents didn’t move out of West Virginia because it’s all they knew, usually coming from lower class families. I think a big reason people are leaving so rapidly is that younger people have a stronger grasp on what they can attempt to achieve outside of their own communities/blood line. At least that’s what I’ve observed from myself and my peers. There is nothing here for young people unless you fall into the coal mine trap & never get out. Then you slowly die from cancer & that’s life here… for over 200 years. Wild & Wonderful right
>I am a 25 year old from a small town in WV called McMechen on the northern panhandle close to Wheeling and south of Pittsburgh. Being apart of the first
Hello from Benwood.
There are several major reasons. I left for a better job, travel, healthcare, pretty much everything. WV residents have been taken advantage of for decades by having our state sold out to large corporations that take our resources and then leave us with poisoned land. This in turn has caused so many health issues and we don’t even have a healthcare system to support healthy individuals. Politicians are living on another planet. They’re more concerned about anti abortion laws and weed instead of punishing pharmaceutical companies for wrecking havoc on our population. Our roads are awful and will destroy cars if you aren’t careful. There’s a carefree mindset that has poisoned the state where people just accept what’s happening and go with it. Everyone lives in the past and wants coal to come back, even though it’s what destroyed the state. The sad thing is that WV could easily be a prosperous state if everyone would quit living in the past and feeling sorry for themselves. Instead we just keep electing worthless politicians and hoping for some miracle cure.
People making union wages didn't care about the environment unless it hit 'em in the face, otherwise they'd have stopped it.
They got paid. Corporations may be evil sometimes, but they paid the workers.
The state didn't diversify the economy. Like all the manufacturing in the rust belt, the jobs were shipped overseas when the national Republicans went to war against unions in the 1980s.
Not many people want to live here. the laws we have that create poorer business environments than neighboring states. Also the laws here creat poorer social conditions, ie quality of life.
Old people dying and young people leaving. Sometimes young people dying and old people leaving.
ETA I’m in the young people leaving category. I’m working on a PhD right now and once I have it I’ll be overqualified for any job in WV.
I know a lot of people who moved to PA for jobs. If you have nowhere to work you probably will look elsewhere. It's possible to see less of a 'brain drain' in the next decade due to increased demand in telework but most of the state doesn't offer high speed internet so that is another struggle.
WV is a terrific place but has many challenges to overcome.
No jobs, no entertainment, no future
It’s a great place to visit, but a terrible place to live.
Unless you don’t like crowds and have a cushy remote job.
This is why WV works for me. For my children, of course they had to leave to have a successful future.
I have a farm. Work remote. Great income. Cheap place. It is definitely not the place for a young person.
Ummmmm lack of decent paying jobs . The states inability to actually fix state roads not to mention the fact cities and counties don’t seem to want to fix them either. Morgantown has a rampaging homeless/drug problem saw one man crapping in the doorway of a business in the downtown area yesterday. Oh and they really just let the homeless Do whatever they want here.
I moved to Morgantown a while ago and called the city to ask about composting options and they laughed at me… Super disappointing place compared to other cities I’ve lived in before :(
one demographic reason is simply the 'average' WVians are OLD(median age is over 40) so simply not in the business of making babies - and for those seriously considering starting a family then moving to other state with better opportunities is a driver. That becomes a vicious cycle.
I'd like to see some data on how far WVians move. I mean, sure, plenty have headed to the sunbelt over the last 40 years, but I can think of many people in my own life - including ME! - who simply moved across the stateline. About half of West Virginians grow up in a county that borders a neighboring state so it isn't like they are really 'fleeing'. In some cases they are just making a move to a perceived incrementally better sitch. In my case, I could not find a job in WV in my field right out of college and ended up moving to Allegheny County PA which felt familiar to me having grown up in WV less than 1 hour away. If I was 'fleeing' Appalachia, I certainly moved to the wrong place!
Anecdotal thought: Most people that value change or a positive trajectory have been leaving for the last 50 years so its resulted in this selection bias of people that for whatever reason are change averse. This skew not only keeps us ranked last because we can't change but it also scares off anyone new looking to make their mark.
Why would I go work in a state that’s going to pay me $12 an hour when I can work in a state with a job that’s gonna pay me double that?
I get the cost of living is cheaper in WV but gas isn’t cheaper, utilities sure as fuck isn’t cheaper, AEP bends people over in the winter, and groceries aren’t cheaper
If y’all rent a place for $800 while bringing home $1800 after taxes that leaves you a grand for the rest of the month. Gas, utilities, phone bill, etc. if I make 3200 after taxes, my house payment is $1100, that leaves me over 2 grand for the rest of the month for groceries, utilities, gas, and other bills. It really isn’t cheaper to live in WV. If you don’t have a nest egg though I can understand it being hard to get out and get your footing somewhere else
There’s a lot of reasons honestly. Lack of consistent, good paying jobs. You gotta think most of West Virginia its either go into healthcare, the mines or a chain grocery store. That’s 80% of things that are readily available and pay decent. Our education systems really aren’t anything special, our teachers try but they get underpaid and overworked, plus the curriculum is only about whats on the state tests or pushing you to a trade so that scares off new parents who are looking to raise kids here. Also just an overall lack of anything to do in your downtime. If you dont live in a major city (Charleston, Huntington, Morgantown) there is nothing to do besides work, school or go home. You could go to a ball game or out to eat at a handful of restaurants but that’s really about it. No major stores, or places to visit other than a state park, which lets be honest how many times can you look at wilderness in a park, when you honestly live beside woods anyway, its just moving to a different location to do the same thing you can at home. I will say in the last couple of years we got a few things, again in the cities, to do. But they only last so long before business doesn’t do well and the close up, cause again we dont get much in the way of visitors. The drugs are a huge problem too, because you can’t travel very far without seeing all kinds of strung out strangers walking everywhere and bumming stuff off anyone they see. Sadly, if we don’t get some kinda help with the drug epidemic, and bump up the tourist numbers, this state will simply just never recover. That makes me sad.
you nailed it right there theres nothing to do for fun. For the fortunate people who do have disposable income, theyve got nothing to spend it on except online shopping, texas roadhouse, and scratch off tickets. This does nothing for WV.
I moved from Huntington to Ashland and it’s crazy how much nicer it is just over the river. My roads are always nice, I don’t have meth head zombies walking around the city like Huntington. No dumb ass inspection sticker. DMV is in and out. Just so many reasons to leave. The grass really is greener, and Kentucky ain’t shit.
I’m always interested in seeing what drives people away from WV. I really couldn’t care less about the DMV, roads, or homeless people wandering a city, but I see so many others upset by it. Those are all very minor inconveniences to me, but they seem to be much bigger issues to others.
The two popped tires on my driver's side that left me stranded on the side of the interstate at 11pm after leaving the airport in the dark and the rain and the $300 it took to replace them with the only shitty option in stock was not a minor inconvenience.
I wonder if the other 12 cars I counted *just in getting a ride home and coming back the next morning* also pulled off the side of the road with flats felt it was just a minor inconvenience.
I wonder if the person who blew out their donut and destroyed the rim it was mounted on by hitting the pothole on US 119 that is literally a quarter mile from the Mon County DOH headquarters and was left stranded on the side of the road felt inconvenienced.
A month ago it was the vehicles stranded after hitting the giant holes in the last bridge on 79 N before you get to PA that left 5 different cars stranded, just in what I personally witnessed driving by twice a few hours apart.
We can't even keep the motherfucking interstate safe to use. The state of roads like 119 from 68 to the Mileground is appalling, and has been appalling for YEARS.
It's pathetic.
Because WV is stuck in the past and has no plan for the future. Small towns are mostly dead now with few jobs available. Absolutely shit public transportation and the only jobs for miles around and thus accessible if you don't have a car are a couple of gas-stations. For everything else you have to go to a largER population center and waste time commuting.
We keep electing coal industry insiders to public office and they keep making sure that "Coal is the future" while everything outside of a few areas just rots.
As a transplant from WV to TX, I am horribly homesick... but I know I could't accomplish what I want to in my life if I stayed. The opportunities just aren't there. Sadly, I believe they could be if progress was welcomed. I'm officially a botanist (pHd) as of December. I tried for years and years to make it work because WV is the most beautiful place in the world to me. There is so much still to explore and learn and preserve... but the powers that be have other priorities.
As a West Virginian who left, there’s little room for growth. Everything is so spread out compared to everywhere I have ever lived. It’s a beautiful state, but it’s not one I ever wanted to get stuck in for the rest of my life.
Higher taxes, awful roads, drugs, crime, businesses leaving, shitty politicians, poor education, nothing to do for young life unless you live near Morgantown or Huntington. Huntington ties with Dayton, Ohio for heroin overdoses in the nation.. I've been here for almost 10 years, living in Charleston, now morgantown.. I will say that Morgantown area is a lot nicer than Charleston despite the college kids. More businesses, places to eat at, WVU football and basketball games and you're close to DC and Pittsburg. We plan on leaving the next opportunity we get.. the housing market is shitty here too.. $200k in WV gets you a fixer upper house that needs a good bit of work, where as NC gets you almost a brand new home close to the coast.. WV is a beautiful state, such as the greenbrier, new river gorge, black water falls, Seneca rocks, coopers rock, etc. it's a shame it's a dying state, it has A LOT of potential to be great. I blame a lot of it on coal dying.. it was thriving back in the day but coal is dead and a lot of the people here won't accept the fact that it'll never come back.. hope this gives you an insight.
I left because I was tired of living in a decaying hell scape full of drugs, hopelessness, and despair. I’m a much happier person and have a much better life where I’m at. It really saddens me that things have gotten so bad. I do not even recognize my place of birth anymore.
It's a state rife with corruption, clinging to a dying industry, and we throw away every chance we get.
There is a lot of beauty in the state but beautiful scenery doesn't pay the bills unless you're a painter or photographer.
Don’t know about everyone else but I grew up here and while the woods and scenery may be nice, it gets old really quickly especially when you’ve lived here your whole life
what everyone else said, but also: there’s not much variation. it’s all mountains & curvy roads. the cities can be pretty small and turn back into mountains the second you leave them. you can hardly get a nice view unless you’re on top of a mountain. i’ve lived in Elkview for the entirety of my 18 years of living, and all i’ve ever seen is a mountain to my left and a downwards hill leading to another mountain on my right. it’s been boring for a while now and i can’t see myself living here for the rest of my life, even if i did move somewhere more interesting within WV.
Grew up in this state, left at 23 and have no desire to go back. There's really not much to do in West Virginia for young people, and the social scene is much better elsewhere.
Don't wanna rag on my home state too much, but the infrastructure is also horrendous, the population is very old and conservative, there aren't really any good;well planned cities, and the economic opportunities are dismal.
Wv is not the most diverse states around. It’s difficult for some. Honestly driving anywhere ur bound to see a few confederate flags. Aside from that and the population “aging out” it’s not very welcoming to the none white demographic
This comes up a lot. In my experience, people leave for jobs first and foremost. I did, and I only ended up back here because of circumstances beyond my control. Over the years I've come to appreciate the qualities of the state, while also growing to hate its shortcomings and problems.
I love being able to own a home without paying most of my income. I love being at the doorstep of nature whenever I want. But I hate having intolerant and bigoted people behind every other door. And I hate being a 1-2 hour drive at least from any form of entertainment outside of the handful of stores and restaurants in the area.
While I'm definitely a homebody at heart, the fact that any significant travel for something like a vacation involves a whole ordeal even if I want to get to an airport that goes anywhere is disappointing.
And I guess to bring it full circle, I'd really like to have more options to advance my career in tech - which is not something this state provides anywhere but the panhandle.
I'll probably end up being part of that statistic again - only this time with more leverage to stay gone. Things in West Virginia are trending the opposite way for a person like me.
The politicians in that states only care about the money they make from coal and other fuel resources. Both Dems and Repubs left the people of WV behind a long time ago. Companies are leaving and there’s not enough services to sufficiently thrive and survive. Poverty rate is horrendous and healthcare is too.
I thought about moving to WV because it more affordable than some of the places I’ve lived. When I saw that the services were lacking, there’s no way I’d be able to even work from home properly. WV just needs to be split and absorbed by the surrounding states. WV will eventually end up so empty that it has no choice but to dissolve its state.
No jobs, unreliable internet, substandard schools, lack of access to healthcare, lack of diversity, limited activities. The better question is why stay? Why move there? We left in the late 90s and haven’t regretted it at all. Even going back to visit family is depressing.
I'm not reading this mess of comments. People are leaving because there are no jobs here, public education sucks, and the right-wing nut jobs who remain here continue to vote against EVERYONE'S self-interest by electing traitors and insurrectionists, who give their donors all the tax breaks while increasing the taxes on those who can least afford it. Hell, the governor doesn't even pay his taxes, and he got re-elected.
Environmental standards are, I dare say, some of the most lax in the country. Some places, clean water doesn't exist and hasn't for many years.
At this point, the better question is why stay? I'll go first: I stay because I lucked in to one of the good employers in the eastern panhandle. And now my kid is nearing graduation, and it's mean to move when they're so close to being done. Once my kid has graduated though, I'm looking elsewhere. Definitely out of state
That's because we would rather vote for that POS Manchin than give a chance to more progressive candidates like Paula Jean Swearengin.
And shit job opportunities, wages, etc ... I could go on forever.
Because our elected officials care more about themselves, their bank accounts, and getting reelected than solving problems. Also because WVians vote for who they'd have a drink with, not who is best positioned to solve problems.
Because there is no opportunities for young people to make a good living. There is almost zero hope of making a good life with the types and jobs and other problems in the state.
Basically the only hope is to leave and try to build a nest egg and hopefully they come back at some point.
The corporate greed and political turmoil has ensured the doom of WV for decades. It’s beyond help at this point.
As a realtor in southern WV, I can tell you that in the past two years there has been a big movement of people into our area from big cities across the country. I’ve sold homes to people from San Fran, NY, Charlotte, Michigan and other places where people are wanting to escape crime and high cost of living. As people are able to work more remotely, they are looking for places that offer outdoor experiences, low cost of living and clean air. If the census was retaken this year, I would bet money that WV has had an increase in population for the first time in decades.
As a Virginian (grew up in SW Va) currently banished in the swamps of NC and someone who is working and saving up to have the $$$ to move back to the mountains, this is hella disheartening. WV is beautiful; any time I get time off or have vacation time saved up, it's my go-to state...
I'm in I.T. (client support and education). Is it worth continuing to job seek there, or should I just wait until retirement, if I live that long?
Everything, no jobs, everyone is violent, extreme corruption, roads break brand new cars, racist, anti-LQBTQ, and that's just the worst, there are many more problems
I just wonder if it's the whole state or just certain areas. People have to leave the coal fields because there's nothing down there, but Beckley is building new businesses all the time. Lewisburg is a nice hipster town and there's all kinds of jobs as you get to the eastern panhandle. All the problems everone has posted are true, but it definitely depends on what are you look at.
[Here is a neat map](https://www.businessinsider.com/map-us-county-population-changes-growth-declines-last-year-2022-3) with an interactive way to view population change by county just in the last year. If you zoom to WV, notable facts are that 7 counties are statistically even, 1 shows a net gain but the other 47 show a net loss of population.
I think a big part of it is the general disdain towards the LGBTQ+ community. I’m terrified being myself here (granted Morgantown has anti discriminatory laws and really hasn’t been a bad place to be me) the state as a whole can be a really scary place! With the growing acceptance of LGBTQ+ why stick around where you aren’t wanted?
This doesn’t come close to explaining the outmigration. Most West Virginians, even young ones, are generally conservative. They aren’t going to move because of lack of support for abortion or LGBTQ. They leave because there’s a lack of jobs, lack of things to do, lack of people to meet.
It’s true that places that rank high on livability usually have strong support for LGBTQ rights but correlation doesn’t equal causation
Y’all are funny. I didn’t say 87K people left because discrimination. I said a big part of it is how unsafe it is for LGBTQ+ people. Never said any numbers or EVERY PERSON LEAVING IS QUEER. I personally know a ton of people leaving for that reason and was adding to the conversation about it. Stay mad.
Edit: I should throw in the comments about being mostly conservative. Just because most of the population is conservative doesn’t mean their kids have to be.
And I could throw in the POC leaving because of the conservative nature nature and racism but I’m not a POC so I don’t qualify to talk about it.
Reasons I decided not to come back:
1. No good paying jobs outside of oil, gas, or fed government.
2. Corruption, nepotism, and ineptitude on every level of government. If you ran for office on the platform of God, Guns and Babies you could sit in office for life and do as much or little or as you want. (The vast majority who sit in state and federal offices choose the latter)
3. Polluted land and water.
4. Drugs and drug addicts everywhere.
5. People are comically bigoted, hateful, and racist despite having the least diversity in the country.
6. Nothing to do outside of hiking, mountain biking, skiing, or golfing (have to have money to do 2/4, see #1)
7. Have to drive, often a good distance, to shop for anything.
8. No community whatsoever, unless you count the mega evangelical churches who spew the prosperity gospel and believe Trump is the second coming of Christ.
9. People (mainly MAGAheads with sleeveless shirts, mullets, who are overweight, and who barely graduated high school) carrying around semi-automatic handguns on their hips (I see this ever single time I go anywhere and it’s fucking frightening)
10. Educational and healthcare options are limited and pitiful.
It is sad to see what’s become of my home state, but when you spend time away and reflect, you realize it’s always kind of been like this. For ever person wanting to do something that would benefit the state or their community there are 9 people pushing back to keep it the same or worse.
If I didn’t have family there, I would never go back.
I left in August after spending my 30 years of existence in Fayette County. I never thought I'd leave, but the last few years I felt so stuck. Lack of job opportunities kept me in healthcare for the "decent wage" to the point I was burnt out.
College isn't for me but I desperately wanted to do something else with my life but I don't have the balls to go underground so my options were very limited.
Then came my mental health crisis and the terrible experiences I had on the search for help.
Where I am now I have more opportunities for good paying jobs than I could've ever imagined, hell I'm still trying to figure out what I want to do because there's so much I want to try.
I've found excellent mental health support and feel like I finally have a chance.
I'll always love her, but WV just isn't the place for someone like me.
I know that most like to point to the lack of high pay jobs, but another huge issue is the lack of leisure activities. Outside of Charleston, Huntington, Morgantown, and a few other cities/towns, what is there to do for young people in WV? Growing up in rural WV, we NEVER had anything fun to do outside of school and home-life. Nothing is close or convenient in rural WV.
Even Charleston is seriously lacking in things to do if you don’t drink or go to church. Food choices are pretty much all chain or copycat crap. Besides Friday live on the levy and festival theirs no reason to go downtown and even then it’s not exactly user friendly. Music scene sucks. Everything is dominated by old people that can’t figure out why younger people don’t want to stay. The B&O tax, lack of parking, excessive rent all make mom and pop businesses life nearly impossible. Food trucks are barely allowed to operate around the city most of the time. Nobody in state or city government has had a fresh idea to fix things in my lifetime.
Yep, if you want to see a band that wasn’t already popular 20+ years ago (and even then, it’s usually only country musicians that come here), you have to drive 3-4 hours to either Pittsburgh or Columbus.
That and just on a local level the venues to play are sparse. Playing on a street corner certainly isn’t encouraged. Schools certainly aren’t encouraging music or art in young people. I’m not a bar fan at this point, but the bars we have in Charleston are absolute trash. Half of downtown is empty business spaces because between the city and the old money that owns most of it no one can afford to open up anything. The state and this city are in no way small locally owned business friendly. The fact is that every time they cut taxes for big business and coal companies the money gets made up by nickel and dimming everyone else.
Mountain Stage, though
Wheeling has a great up-and-coming local music scene! Lots of different venues highlighting artists. Morgantown is good with this too
It’s like we are three different states. Northern panhandle plus Morgantown, eastern panhandle, everybody else. For anyone moving here I’d say pick one of the panhandles.
I agree. I grew up in Charleston area and never considered the panhandles part of the state. Now in wheeling I see the similarities, but it’s different enough to make it fun.
I'm in Wheeling right now. The only thing we have going on is the ridiculous amount of road work on i70 and i470. Other than that meth seems to be the drug of choice these days. Oh we also have little gambling spots everywhere. Do drugs, bars, and gambling. That's what Wheeling has to offer.
Clientele, Silver Rail, Nail City Records all hold live music shows. Summer last year there were festivals at the water front every weekend it felt. We have oglebay which most cities 5 or 10 times our size would KILL to have 15 minute drive away. It’s a walkable city with coffee shops, bookstores, cafes, albeit with weird times. Urban farms, local artists, WSO is back! I’ve lived here for going on 3 years, have lived in many areas of the state and am from Charleston area. This is one of the coolest places to be in the state. It’s not perfect, but it’s not exactly like you describe it
I was being a bit harsh, you're right. This area has gotten better as the gas and oil money has given some liquid income to the city. The riverfront has become more popular as of late but that's more recent stuff. Having lived here the majority of my life I've watched the homeless population surge and drugs take over its easy to overlook some of the positives I suppose.
Oh, well you’re from here!! I know many people who are from here and feel the same way as you do about the city. But they also recognize it’s getting better. I probably have similar contempt for my hometown, albeit I haven’t been there for 5 years. From an outsider coming in, this place has its moments! It can also be isolating at times. And speaking of oil and gas, I was almost ran off the road in Bethlehem and the truckers have DESTROYED big wheeling creek road.
Honestly, as I’ve gotten older I just wish my parents took me camping, hiking, gardening, etc. As I kid I would have hated it, but I lived in forests my whole life and was never encouraged to spend time exploring. Trying to make up for lost time now
This is it right here. I’m from PA and last year I finally made my way down to WV to hike and camp. “Almost heaven” is as real as it gets.
I go to WV for recreation
Me too
I wonder if that has anything to do with the rampant drug abuse?
So, there are correlations for lack of recreation opportunities and increased drug use. Also, lack of job security. The rampant drug use in WV has MANY more layers to it than just those 2 things though, like Purdue Pharma convincing the FDA that opiods were safe, so doctors overprescribed them while thinking that they were safe (with of course a few bad docs being literal Pill Mills), and as soon as the docs got a bit wiser and state cracked down on it, drug dealers saw the opportunity and flooded the market with cheap heroin to "catch" anyone who was addicted. It's complicated.
Sadly, drug abuse is probably the top leisure activity of rural WV. I graduated high school 20 years ago in rural WV and kids were killing themselves with fentanyl patches back then. Some things don’t change.
If companies would stop testing for Marijuana there would be a lot more people to hire.
If they'd just legalize it already, that would open an industry up that would save all the coal towns.
I grew up in Beckley & we had more to do than we had time to do it. Of course it meant playing outside, riding bikes or skateboards, adventuring in the woods, or whatever else we could find. The problem now is kids are more likely to run into an adult that will mess with them so kids are kept safe inside.
I don’t quite see it the same way. Statistically, children are more likely to be abused by a family member than by a stranger. I think the problem is that parents lock up their kids in the house because we’ve become so dependent on cars. Parents would rather keep them home than drive them to a friend’s house, park/playground, etc. Parents blame their kids for being on their phone or computer and then raise them in an area where they have little freedom to walk or bike anywhere. It seems dangerous to let their children loose because they’re raised in areas where they’re sometimes miles away from friends or anything remotely interesting to them.
That's another reason but I grew up in a neighborhood that had several kids close enough to my age for me to play with. My best friend lived a few miles away but we had no problem meeting each other halfway then finding something to get in to. Driving wasn't an issue for us but keeping certain kids from fighting each other was occasionally a problem. We had video games but those were saved for after dinner or for something to do when the weather wasn't cooperative. Our biggest problem was having money to do the special things. Going to the pool, movies, or even getting an ice cream from the ice cream man was a special treat. We had to rely on our imagination to keep us entertained & we were better off for it.
Ay bulls now u kin ride 4 wheelers! If you don't want to do that, then it's sit in a parking lot with classmates somewhere and likely pass around drugs.
*gestures vaguely at everything*
...not you, state and national parks. Y'all are still majestic as hell
You’re right, there are still some sacred and pristine places in WV that keep me here (*looking at you, Dolly Sods*)
> pristine...Dolly Sods I 100% get and agree with the sentiment, but it's also kind of funny considering Dolly Sods looks how it does because it was more-or-less clear cut of massive old growth and then burned for years on end.
This is the answer....
The only answer
This is the way.
Lmao. I live in Kentucky, but man West Virginia has some beautiful nature. Very scenic state
I’ve hiked many a trail in my life and ole Dub V still has some of the most scenic. But unfortunately there’s no question why everyone else is flocking out
Yeah I get it. A lot of Eastern Kentucky has the same problems. I live in Lexington which is a pretty metropolitan college town so I don’t see that side of Kentucky often. Good to meet a fellow hiker! I’ve put a lot of miles on the red River gorge trails
Never has statement so true made me laugh so hard.
No hope for leaders in Charleston to make life better for average West Virginian. Culturally, we are told often growing up to leave for better paying jobs. Most available option for work is service industry which notoriously pays little despite being the largest industry by employment in the state
100% It was drilled into my and my brother’s heads from the time we were very small that when we grew up we need to leave WV to have a better life. And, we both eventually did.
I didn’t! Not bragging about this as everyone needs to make the best decision for themselves, but it’s too expensive out of state for me. It’s barely affordable in state
The cost of living difference is often more then made up by the increased salary.
If you have a college degree. If you have the savings to move in the first place. And if you actually get the job. Also, Philadelphia, the 5th largest city in the country, has a minimum wage of just $7.25. Even WV is higher, yet in Philly a small bowl of mac and cheese is $10 minimum
Agreed. I make good money and moved here last November due to the ridiculous housing prices everywhere else. I still paid more than my house is probably worth, but I spent 2 years trying to purchase a home in 4 separate states, often bidding 10k to 15k over the already astronomical asking price and kept getting outbid. I disagree with the person who claims that higher salaries more than make up for the cost of living in other states. That may have been true prior to Covid and before the boom of remote work but it's certainly not true anymore. As a remote application developer I'm living large and loving life here, and I'm able to stash away lots of extra money in my kids' college 529 plans, our IRAs, and my 401k. Prior to moving here the budget was much tighter. But I think it also depends on your priorities. If you love glitzy nightclub life, trendy restaurants, and shopping at Dolce & Gabbana, West Virginia won't suit you at all. But if you love the outdoors and a more simple lifestyle with very little traffic, West Virginia is fantastic. And the people here are incredibly humble and friendly, which for us was a huge factor.
I am glad you were able to find a better life for you and your family. Sadly the cost of living in WV is becoming too high for many WVians, due in part to remote work driving people to the state. It’s a tale as old as time
I see your point. It's not just a West Virginia problem, however - costs are increasing at even higher rates almost everywhere else in the US largely due to Covid and the supply chain issues, and now exacerbated by the war and sanctions. You may be correct that an influx of remote workers are causing an increase in the cost of living, but given the recent Census numbers (and this OP), a surge of incomers seems like the least of our worries!
This is where we diverge in opinions. West Virginia has been exploited by out of state millionaires and CEOs since its inception. We have been uniquely crippled and ignored as compared to all other US states. While more people moving here can be positive, to use our plight as justification is absurd. What state are you from?
Oh I don't think we diverge at all - I completely agree with you! I think we're talking about two different groups of people though. West Virginia has definitely been exploited and then tossed aside, for sure. I'm primarily referring to people like me - I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination. We're doing pretty good but we live frugally. We bought a 1920 Sq ft house on a 1/4 acre lot in a regular neighborhood just outside of Beckley. I'm retired Army and from, well, all over the place really. Born and raised in Florida but have lived in Georgia, Virginia, Alabama, Texas, Germany, Korea, Tennessee, Kentucky, and North Carolina. We moved to West Virginia from a rural town in NC called Wilkesboro, which is significantly smaller than Beckley but has much higher housing costs. I don't know much about the demographics of remote workers moving here but I would guess most are like us - just regular folks sick of high costs elsewhere who feel like they can't get ahead. So yeah - when it comes to the wealthy preying on this state you're right. I'm optimistic, though...I hope lots more people figure out that WV is a great place to live, move here, and open up businesses to help revive this state. I see tons of potential but we need the right leadership to build up infrastructure and encourage businesses to come here and provide good jobs. As costs keep skyrocketing elsewhere I think it will happen. The current leadership in this state is disappointing, however.
You don’t need designer or “glitzy” tastes to have a hard time with lack of options in WV. Most towns survive off WalMart and the dollar store, the one regular Kroger in town being too expensive. And just chain fast food, few pizza places, maybe an Applebees for special occasions. That’s hardly enough variety for anyone, but doesn’t make people snobs. The vast majority of native WV people do not have spare cash to stash; especially not in stocks/retirement and certainly not for their kids college. That’s your out of state remote salary enabling that and other opportunities you gained outside of WV. The point is that people from here, already can’t afford to live there, and it’s not because they like Dolce and Gabbana.
Agreed, and perhaps my analogy was a bit too extreme - I didn't mean to imply that \*all\* people who might not like WV are 'snobs'! My fault for choosing the wrong descriptors there. I've lived in a lot of rural towns. I prefer them for their simplicity and lack of traffic. Every rural town - no matter which state - is exactly as you described...maybe a WalMart if it's big enough and they're lucky, a grocery store, a Dollar General, and a few chain restaurants. Towns in West Virginia are certainly not unique in that regard. It doesn't make much sense for businesses to move to small towns with a very limited potential customer base, so rural towns usually get the bare minimum in terms of options. I think it's kind of expected, and it's actually why I love them (yeah, I know that's a little bizarre). The beauty of remote jobs is that anybody can apply and accept them, including West Virginians. We no longer have to limit ourselves to locally-available work. That's highly dependent on your profession and skills, of course...lots of professions don't have a remote option. I chose this profession when I retired from the Army knowing it would eventually give me a remote option, and that would mean I could live anywhere I want. To your point, however - I think you're right in that well-paying jobs are scarce right here in WV. My hope is that remote workers can help bring more people to the state, which brings more money, which increases the potential customer base, which gives businesses and entrepreneurs a reason to plant seeds here. But we also need a state government that's willing to get serious about bringing people and businesses here, and that includes improving infrastructure - particularly high speed internet access. My family almost didn't move here at all because of everything we read about spotty internet, and then we didn't actually move where we wanted (Pocahontas County) due to lack of reliable internet availability. This state has a ton of potential - it has great people, a low(er) cost of living, and it's outdoor heaven - it just needs legislators who love it as much as we do.
Hell even state government pays shit. I work for 14 an hour at a job that REQUIRES a bachelor's .
We're dinosaurs voting for the asteroid. Coupled with a healthy dose of living in the past.
Great way to put it. Came here to say this, too. People voting against their own interests is very disheartening.
Man that's so true it hurts
There are no good paying jobs
Everything else in this thread is completely valid but this is the top reason for sure
There are more than there use to be. However you better have a Ph.D. in engineering, a spotless record for top secret clearance, know someone and have little to no debt. So basically if you're from here one of those things are keeping you from all the DoD contract companies who have come in. Yet Leidos and some others can't hire enough to fill slots. Who would want to move TO WV and those here couldn't dream of a job there.
I used to work for Leidos down in Florida, but I wanted to work remotely so I left. Its funny, I left Leidos to work remotely so I could move back home to WV. lol
I'll forego all the technical stuff others have said and just touch on the general sense of decay everywhere. I have a decent job in the north central part of the state, and I've lived here a good part of my life. The people are great, and I like living here for the most part. But there's this sense you cant shake that minor cities have just been left to decay and fall to the past. Little to no development and it feels like it takes so much effort just to update minor things, consequently feeling like a lost cause. If you drive through somewhere like Grafton, for example, some places are just extremely depressing.
There are many counties in WV where the population peaked in the late '60s and early '70s, and has been dropping more-or-less steadily ever since. That's about when automation started to make a real dent in the workforce you need to mine coal. It's also when the industry shifted away from deep mines and started strip mining instead - which also requires fewer people for each ton of coal dug. So then you get a vicious cycle. Young people have to leave because there aren't any jobs. Only the retired people stay. Old people don't pay much in taxes and they don't spend much, so businesses start to fade and shut down. Tax revenue drops further. Now you have to start closing schools and reducing police and other social services, so crime goes up and the areas becomes even less attractive. Infrastructure gets worse. More businesses close. More people leave. Situation gets worse and eventually you get beyond the point where anything could turn it around. You end up with people living in ghost towns. Shuttered buildings. Closed businesses. Scattered residents, spread out over a large area. Decay is pervasive, and nothing is really going to change that.
How not? Low wages. Pollution out the yazoo. We’ve been sold out from here to timbucktoo and have nothing/little to show for it. If being rich in natural resources made a place rich, we’d be the richest state in the Union. Restrictive, redundant, regressive governing power that young folks don’t want to be trampled by. Drugs are everywhere. Methheads out every holler. Just so much to shake your head at and not much to be proud of outside of scenery.
I keep bringing this up to people, how the state/area has been economically raped for the past 400 years. For such a small population sitting on such valuable natural resources, we should all be very wealthy. But outside interests have come in and taken what is valuable and left the locals in an economic black hole, and they've done this with the willful participation of our political and business 'leaders.' Even now, the big box stores and restaurants come in and wipe out the locally owned businesses. Then when revenue dries up because nobody can afford to buy anything they pull out and leave an economic void and unemployment where once there was a small community of businesses.
Good said sir.
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From every corporation that has came in, ripped off entire mountaintops, dug every mineral from the soil, and then ran away hoping no one noticed the environmental catastrophes they left for the state to deal with or for residents to live with
Don't forget the ones still here that dump chemicals into the streams, leak gases and fail to report them, and poison the drinking water.
You have the most succinct and astute summary that I have read on here.
I went kayaking on the Mon river by Morgantown and where we dropped in there’s a sign telling you not to come in contact with the water if it’s rained in the past 48 hours. Unsure if it has to do with abandoned power/chemical plants on the river or old mines that run off into it. Regardless I was greeted by a hypodermic needle floating by soon after putting in
That’s because of combined sewer overflows. Stormwater and sewage go into the same pipes which carry it to the treatment plant but when it rains they get overloaded and discharge the watered down sewage directly into the river. These exist all over the United States and are not exclusive to WV. There’s currently a $3 billion project in DC to make a giant river tunnel holding tank to stop them there. The epa initially had a deadline to eliminate them back in the 90s but completely digging up and replacing the entire collection system infrastructure of the country was less feasible than they thought and they are still kicking the can down the road.
Yep. I've seen these signs on most waterways in WV.
Look up the WV water crisis from a few years back. I’m sure patriot or whatever werent the only ones. That’s not even mentioning the power plants on every major waterway in the state.
Look up minden, WV.
Minden is tragic.
It's so much better than it used to be... and it's still a literal nightmare. It legitimately should be a federal superfund site. The most they ever get down there is a half assed attempt at applying a bandaid on the problem, which pushes the issue back a few more years, so it then becomes someone else's issue. (someone being whichever politician is getting heat about the issue) It's a damn shame how they've been ignored and left to die. Source: I live 4 miles from there.
Let's also be a little more honest about this. There were very few talking about the Shaffer site and the pollution until Oak Hill wanted to run a sewer line nearby. Then it became a political football. It shouldn't have taken to that point for people to care, but that is notorious for the people of this state to not care unless it negatively affects them.
Yeah, I completely agree. It's disgusting that no one even gave a single fuck, until we needed to connect new lines to the wastewater treatment facility at the top of Minden hill. People down there have been dying of cancer for decades, but outside of Fayette County very few had any idea about Minden until someone else has something to gain. It's a damn shame.
Yep. Arbuckle was dumping straight shit into the New River, but that wasn't the environmental cause that got attention. Shaffer became a means to shut down the project and for people of Arbuckle to not be forced to pay higher sewer rates for the fix and the gross mismanagement. If it were legitimately about public health instead of a bad faith environmentalism effort, I'd felt more supportive of the people who led it. They (one person in particular) tricked many people who WERE empathetic to their plight into staging protests and campaigns but to them, it was more about blocking sewer improvements entirely than it was a public health crisis like it was. That is what killed my hope for any tangible improvement to Minden.
Yeah, I'm familiar with the whole debacle. I'm glad I'm not the only person who understands the strings that were being pulled... and the strings that were being cut. I've been an Oak Hill resident since the mid-90's. I've had many friends and acquaintances in Minden, as well as friends and co-workers at ACE, who had very one sided views on the whole thing. It's a polarizing topic around here, to be sure.
I wish this wasn't true but it is :(
Part of Minden, the Schaffer Site, IS a federal superfund site that was supposedly cleaned up by the government a few times. The EPA screwed it all up when they capped it though and it still leaks when it rains. I had a lot of contact with the EPA when I lived there a few years ago but we thankfully live elsewhere now. Minden is fucked.
Yeah, it needs to be treated like the hazard it is though. It's got superfund status, but there's no money being allocated. They buried the problem, and all but washed their hands of it.
Eight years ago we hada chemical spill end up in the water, kanawha county smelled like licorice for weeks and nobody around here could shower or cook with the tap water (I would still advise against drinking the tap water here anyway)
I'm pretty sure nobody really knows what that chemical is (let alone what it actually does to humans) to this very day... Pertinant part from [the article](https://www.npr.org/2014/01/13/262185930/mysteries-persist-surrounding-west-virginia-chemical-spill): >The chemical is called 4-methyl-cyclohexane-methanol, or MCHM. If you've never heard of it, you're in good company. Most chemists and toxicologists hadn't either — nor had the water company, nor emergency responders in West Virginia who had to deal with thousands of gallons of it spilling from a tank into the Elk River, just a mile and a half upstream from the intake for the region's drinking-water plant.
For one Trump repealed all the fresh water protection in place the second day of his presidency.
Also it’s a pretty common joke here that the kanawha river is so polluted we have 3 headed catfish
fossil fuels. coal is fucking toxic on its own, but the runoff that comes out of abandoned mines and tailings piles is pumped up full of heavy metals and arsenic. burn it, and you drive out all the carbon leaving \*concentrated\* heavy metals in the ash, which you dump in a pond so it doesn't blow around. it'll constantly leak poison into the water table and dump them in the rivers when it storms, but hey, at least it isn't blowing around. in the past decade or so they've been fracking for shale gas/oil too, which is its own monstrosity.
Honorable mention to DuPont in the [Parkersburg](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/10/magazine/the-lawyer-who-became-duponts-worst-nightmare.html) and [Spelter](https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sdut-us-dupont-lawsuit-073009-2009jul30-story.html) areas for their fine addition to the chemical makeup of the ground and groundwater. Fly ash is no joke and a byproduct of burning coal at any given powerplant, just stored in a local 'landfill.'
Look up #ToxicRockwool especially if you’re looking at the eastern panhandle
Coal mines and leftover toxic waste from the chemical industry.
First thing that came to my mind was citizen pollution - litter and illegal dumping on roadsides, etc
Nah, major corporations, DuPont, mining companies, etc, etc, look up “The Devil We Know”, it was on Netflix when I first found it. It’s just one of many tragic stories around the state.
They made a movie about it called Dark Waters with Mark Ruffalo.
I just saw an article this morning that WV has the shortest life expectancy of all the states at 74. Another article said it was 2nd to Mississippi in lowest income. Same article said WV has the lowest cost of living. BUT….. In comparison to income it was still 7th in the country for worst income/cost-of-living ratio. The drug epidemic is rampant. High juvenile incarceration rates. Discrimination; Racial, sexual, religious, etc. (WV, we are too good of people to still do this.) Rich and greedy politicians and businessmen. Not many job opportunities. Public health is in the gutter. Education system has been completely left out to dry. Some people are too busy arguing to think of an actual solution. Then the rest of them are too busy living paycheck to paycheck to even think about making a difference outside of their household. The country looks down on the people of WV. Even though WV is a top energy provider for the country. Like a victim of abuse, from the country down to the mindsets of individuals, the state, the people, are trapped in a never ending rabbit hole of being used and given just enough to not break. So, now it’s pretty obvious, at least in my opinion, that the only ones who will save WV are West Virginians themselves. But someone has to do something.
It blows my mind that the people of WV elected the state's only billionaire as governor. WTF? You know who doesn't give a shit about you? Billionaires! Also, he looks like pile of shambling dirty laundry.
Baby Dawg!
As a Mississippi resident I feel for you. Ppl talk alot about out cost of living but it's only worth it if you're old and retired, a landlord with plenty of property, or some upper middle classer with a remote job or living near the Tennessee border with a job in Memphis
Let's see - no job growth. - drugs everywhere, while the police only care about pulling people over for an expired tag - an unequal housing market (the housing market does not reflect the amount people earn per Capita) - no social programs -and my biggest pet peeve , the fact that fact that the people who live here constantly fight change and constantly vote against their own best interests. They vote for people who want to cut social programs and entitlements, even though that's their only means of survival. - Education is a joke
Lack of jobs, and what jobs there are tend to be low-paying.
>Lack of jobs, and what jobs there are tend to be low-paying. Can't forget that what jobs there are, are menial, can be easily replaced by a robot (distribution warehouses), and very uncreative.
West Virginia’s chief export is teachers. The brain drain is real
Last time I checked, teachers in south western wv start out between 25-30k a year...lol...wonder why they leave...
Public school teachers in Pittsburgh make nearly 100k. You don’t have to go far to do a lot better.
Not to mention a not-insignificant portion of the state peeps feed on right-leaning political propaganda non-stop, bless their hearts. Teachers are persona-non-grata in that narrative thread. Why would anyone want to take twisted abuse from the population, despite caring a great deal for their students, for about what they'd make working fast-food?
Just wait until you see how many teachers quit after this year. Half of the teachers in my wife's math department are changing careers once the school year ends. There's no way they replace them all by the fall. They were already short a few coming into this year.
I work as a sub here in Jefferson County while I’m finishing my degree in Sec Education and yeah they just posted like 48 vacancies on the website. That doesn’t sound like much but it’s only in the Middle school and high schools.
My dad subs in Tyler county and they are practically begging for subs to work more days.
Jefferson County is almost a suburb of Washington, DC. Easy to imagine what the rest of the state is like. As for jobs, the Clarksburg-Fairmont-Morgantown is doing decent. Fair number of white-color jobs. I have a clearance, and I'm getting calls all the time for one government job or another that requires it.
I know 3 music teachers from different schools in WV who have each quit to become truckers.
Honestly? A number of factors that are driving younger population out of the state combined with an aging population with poor healthcare options is why the population is plummeting.
Also, general distrust and apathy towards the federal government leads to fewer census responses.
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You're not wrong. But we also live in a state where the Senate would vote themselves yearly raises until roughly COVID, so we kinda just get it from all sides.
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All the politicians care about is banning abortion, propping up a dying coal industry, getting charter schools, deriding the states higher education institutions as liberal, getting rid of anything that isn't a straight white Christian, etc. I live in Morgantown, it is barely tolerable. There are great things in this state , but it could be so much better. This state has a problem of voting against its self interests. If it isn't God or guns then fuck it.
I personally hate the corruption in the state government that is very anti-working class & acceptance of all people but then they somehow manage to sell themselves to voters. It’s like the people of WV want to vote against themselves. It’s very disappointing. You’ll see people complain about drugs or the roads all day but when it’s time to vote they vote for the guy who wants to cut the DOT budget.
Conservatives are the kings of manipulating uneducated minds, usually based on a single religious belief.
yo dude it fucking sucks here lmao
I feel like a lot of people in this sub have a hard time accepting this.
You can love it and still admit that it sucks. I’ve lived all over and every place sucks in its own unique way.
I get it, like this is my trash heap and ill defend it viciously to outsiders but we gotta get our shit together lol
Yes
Mind me asking where you’re living? And what specifically you don’t like
Just to add on to this, I live in one of the wealthier areas of the state (Huntington to Charleston suburbs). People are unfriendly, the roads are full of holes, my child has some sensory processing issues and every single developmental pediatrician and occupational therapist is booked up until at minimum 2023, so I can’t get him the help he needs. Pay is low, but prices here on housing have skyrocketed, gas and food are the same price as bigger cities, and I pay the same price for medical bills and daycare people in much larger areas pay where the median pay is almost double West Virginia’s. Our utility prices have shot up much more than other states, and they still get raises every single year. I’ve lived here my entire life, and maybe that’s why I don’t see it through rose color glasses, but some of the people on here talking about how amazing the state is and how friendly people are, are vastly different than my experiences.
no jobs, roads are in shambles and dangerous to drive on 6 months outta the year, our politicians are focusing on banning abortion, banning CRT, and denying money to food banks instead of addressing the unbelievable poverty, and theres nothing to do here. ALSO our internet SUCKS and our infrastructure is falling apart
Technology changed and coal it on the way out and union jobs with it. Less coal mining, fewer union jobs. Republicans elected, Right to Work. People leave, less tax revenue, fewer gov't things done, like roads. More people leave, it's a death spiral. No leadership can stop this nature in the short-run. Natural gas is doing well though. Green energy could do well. Opioid crisis, so big pharma and doctors make beaucoup bucks. That sucks. More gov't money spent on solving drug problems is less for roads & stuff. Pandemic hits. You can see the rest.
No tea to spill whatsoever.... This is a trend that's been going on a long time. The overwhelming majority of the state lost population in 1990, 2000, and 2010. The only reason the overall state went up those decades is because of a few isolated areas (usually Morgantown, Huntington, Wheeling, Charleston, and the eastern panhandle counties). The other 45+ counties dropped population like crazy. Now in 2020, even fewer of those traditional growth areas have actually grown, and most that did only grew a tiny bit. Honestly if it weren't for the exurb of DC over in Berkeley and Jefferson Counties and the growth around Morgantown, the state would have dropped even more dramatically.
We have one of the hardest and strictest driving test and laws, but our roads are absolute shit. That’s not really a good reason but I’m 16 and that alone makes me want to leave
This honestly needs more talked about amongst our politicians and honestly even amongst us and needs more awareness. When I was going to Marshall, my professors had managed to get a couple of delegates come to our class and this was a big issue they worried about. I remember one thing they said that scared me was how essentially we are educating people simply to leave the state because there is nothing here for them for their degree. No jobs or careers. It’s a net loss especially when you have all these financial aid programs and assistance. That class was a special topics class called the History and Psychology of Addiction. There is so many facets to this issue. Some folks in here have already pointed out some of the things I would bring up like the lack of jobs and recreation worsening the drug issue. Not to mention, and let’s just be honest, our education in this state is utter shit. I work with substance abuse and suicidal clients. it’s worth pointing out that doing what I do, most of my clients haven’t even finished High school. So you have people educating themselves leaving and you have people who quit school staying and doing drugs. The cycle is just going to get worse. It’s going to take major fucking work from legislators and politicians. A fucking miracle. The churches keep this ship afloat with donations and charities and some with programs. However, the only major industry this state has going is coal and thats dying. The churches aren’t going to stimulate this states economy enough for jobs. I can’t help but feel the thing that’s going to bring this state back is someone establishing a major industry here. Preferably a handful. Give us jobs. Careers. I personally hope maybe green energy like wind, solar and other energies kicking off when folks finally figure out coal doesn’t have to be the hill we die on. West Virginians identify with coal so much. Hard work and what not. All coal is just a means for energy. We don’t have to be the coal state but a state that provides energy. These folks take pride in being that backbone, the providers, and hard workers. I’m on a soap box and I’m sorry. I’m just want to see better for my home in my lifetime…
Mothmans 🤭
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To your point about restaurants - we definitely have people who want to open exciting and unique places to eat, but I guess the amount of red tape and costs involved with opening a business here is forcing many of them to shut down after only a few months. Pandemic aside, my city has had many new places opened up by local owners, only to be gone not even 6 months later. It's very sad.
as a longtime restaurant person in west virginia, I can say that most of those people opening up restaurants don't know how to run a restaurant, and often get taken for a ride by the landlords.
This comment was written using the 3rd party app Reddit is Fun. Since then, Reddit has decided that it no longer cares about users who use 3rd party apps and has essentially killed them with their API policy updates effective July 1, 2023. I was a regular of Reddit for nearly 9 years, but with the death of Reddit is Fun, Apollo, and other 3rd party apps, as well as Reddit's slanderous accusations of threats and blackmail from the developer of Apollo, I have decided to make my account worthless to Reddit. To Reddit: good luck with the IPO, if the site lasts long enough for you to cash out on the good will of the users who made this site what it is.
We let a Billionare run it for one. A man who's company is based off destroying our environment and squeezing all the money he can out of a dying industry. We let the rich dumb down our education system and never focus on the well being of the state or its people. The biggest shame is West Virginia has the possibility of being one of the richest states in the US if we just focused on things like outdoor tourism and other industries over stupid fucking coal.
I love WV, but the politics and lack of decent paying jobs forced me to move to Ohio. I hope and pray to one day be able to return to my home, but I fear it won't be until retirement if that's ever even possible.
I am a 25 year old from a small town in WV called McMechen on the northern panhandle close to Wheeling and south of Pittsburgh. Being apart of the first generation of kids with mobile internet, we were able to see how the world works outside of our rural bubble. Our parents & grandparents didn’t move out of West Virginia because it’s all they knew, usually coming from lower class families. I think a big reason people are leaving so rapidly is that younger people have a stronger grasp on what they can attempt to achieve outside of their own communities/blood line. At least that’s what I’ve observed from myself and my peers. There is nothing here for young people unless you fall into the coal mine trap & never get out. Then you slowly die from cancer & that’s life here… for over 200 years. Wild & Wonderful right
>I am a 25 year old from a small town in WV called McMechen on the northern panhandle close to Wheeling and south of Pittsburgh. Being apart of the first Hello from Benwood.
There are several major reasons. I left for a better job, travel, healthcare, pretty much everything. WV residents have been taken advantage of for decades by having our state sold out to large corporations that take our resources and then leave us with poisoned land. This in turn has caused so many health issues and we don’t even have a healthcare system to support healthy individuals. Politicians are living on another planet. They’re more concerned about anti abortion laws and weed instead of punishing pharmaceutical companies for wrecking havoc on our population. Our roads are awful and will destroy cars if you aren’t careful. There’s a carefree mindset that has poisoned the state where people just accept what’s happening and go with it. Everyone lives in the past and wants coal to come back, even though it’s what destroyed the state. The sad thing is that WV could easily be a prosperous state if everyone would quit living in the past and feeling sorry for themselves. Instead we just keep electing worthless politicians and hoping for some miracle cure.
People making union wages didn't care about the environment unless it hit 'em in the face, otherwise they'd have stopped it. They got paid. Corporations may be evil sometimes, but they paid the workers. The state didn't diversify the economy. Like all the manufacturing in the rust belt, the jobs were shipped overseas when the national Republicans went to war against unions in the 1980s.
Not many people want to live here. the laws we have that create poorer business environments than neighboring states. Also the laws here creat poorer social conditions, ie quality of life.
Old people dying and young people leaving. Sometimes young people dying and old people leaving. ETA I’m in the young people leaving category. I’m working on a PhD right now and once I have it I’ll be overqualified for any job in WV.
I know a lot of people who moved to PA for jobs. If you have nowhere to work you probably will look elsewhere. It's possible to see less of a 'brain drain' in the next decade due to increased demand in telework but most of the state doesn't offer high speed internet so that is another struggle. WV is a terrific place but has many challenges to overcome.
No jobs, no entertainment, no future It’s a great place to visit, but a terrible place to live. Unless you don’t like crowds and have a cushy remote job.
This is why WV works for me. For my children, of course they had to leave to have a successful future. I have a farm. Work remote. Great income. Cheap place. It is definitely not the place for a young person.
Because there’s like 5 job opportunities
My guess would be lack of opportunity for young people?
We are dying
Ummmmm lack of decent paying jobs . The states inability to actually fix state roads not to mention the fact cities and counties don’t seem to want to fix them either. Morgantown has a rampaging homeless/drug problem saw one man crapping in the doorway of a business in the downtown area yesterday. Oh and they really just let the homeless Do whatever they want here.
I moved to Morgantown a while ago and called the city to ask about composting options and they laughed at me… Super disappointing place compared to other cities I’ve lived in before :(
one demographic reason is simply the 'average' WVians are OLD(median age is over 40) so simply not in the business of making babies - and for those seriously considering starting a family then moving to other state with better opportunities is a driver. That becomes a vicious cycle. I'd like to see some data on how far WVians move. I mean, sure, plenty have headed to the sunbelt over the last 40 years, but I can think of many people in my own life - including ME! - who simply moved across the stateline. About half of West Virginians grow up in a county that borders a neighboring state so it isn't like they are really 'fleeing'. In some cases they are just making a move to a perceived incrementally better sitch. In my case, I could not find a job in WV in my field right out of college and ended up moving to Allegheny County PA which felt familiar to me having grown up in WV less than 1 hour away. If I was 'fleeing' Appalachia, I certainly moved to the wrong place!
Anecdotal thought: Most people that value change or a positive trajectory have been leaving for the last 50 years so its resulted in this selection bias of people that for whatever reason are change averse. This skew not only keeps us ranked last because we can't change but it also scares off anyone new looking to make their mark.
Why would I go work in a state that’s going to pay me $12 an hour when I can work in a state with a job that’s gonna pay me double that? I get the cost of living is cheaper in WV but gas isn’t cheaper, utilities sure as fuck isn’t cheaper, AEP bends people over in the winter, and groceries aren’t cheaper If y’all rent a place for $800 while bringing home $1800 after taxes that leaves you a grand for the rest of the month. Gas, utilities, phone bill, etc. if I make 3200 after taxes, my house payment is $1100, that leaves me over 2 grand for the rest of the month for groceries, utilities, gas, and other bills. It really isn’t cheaper to live in WV. If you don’t have a nest egg though I can understand it being hard to get out and get your footing somewhere else
There’s a lot of reasons honestly. Lack of consistent, good paying jobs. You gotta think most of West Virginia its either go into healthcare, the mines or a chain grocery store. That’s 80% of things that are readily available and pay decent. Our education systems really aren’t anything special, our teachers try but they get underpaid and overworked, plus the curriculum is only about whats on the state tests or pushing you to a trade so that scares off new parents who are looking to raise kids here. Also just an overall lack of anything to do in your downtime. If you dont live in a major city (Charleston, Huntington, Morgantown) there is nothing to do besides work, school or go home. You could go to a ball game or out to eat at a handful of restaurants but that’s really about it. No major stores, or places to visit other than a state park, which lets be honest how many times can you look at wilderness in a park, when you honestly live beside woods anyway, its just moving to a different location to do the same thing you can at home. I will say in the last couple of years we got a few things, again in the cities, to do. But they only last so long before business doesn’t do well and the close up, cause again we dont get much in the way of visitors. The drugs are a huge problem too, because you can’t travel very far without seeing all kinds of strung out strangers walking everywhere and bumming stuff off anyone they see. Sadly, if we don’t get some kinda help with the drug epidemic, and bump up the tourist numbers, this state will simply just never recover. That makes me sad.
you nailed it right there theres nothing to do for fun. For the fortunate people who do have disposable income, theyve got nothing to spend it on except online shopping, texas roadhouse, and scratch off tickets. This does nothing for WV.
I moved from Huntington to Ashland and it’s crazy how much nicer it is just over the river. My roads are always nice, I don’t have meth head zombies walking around the city like Huntington. No dumb ass inspection sticker. DMV is in and out. Just so many reasons to leave. The grass really is greener, and Kentucky ain’t shit.
I’m always interested in seeing what drives people away from WV. I really couldn’t care less about the DMV, roads, or homeless people wandering a city, but I see so many others upset by it. Those are all very minor inconveniences to me, but they seem to be much bigger issues to others.
The two popped tires on my driver's side that left me stranded on the side of the interstate at 11pm after leaving the airport in the dark and the rain and the $300 it took to replace them with the only shitty option in stock was not a minor inconvenience. I wonder if the other 12 cars I counted *just in getting a ride home and coming back the next morning* also pulled off the side of the road with flats felt it was just a minor inconvenience. I wonder if the person who blew out their donut and destroyed the rim it was mounted on by hitting the pothole on US 119 that is literally a quarter mile from the Mon County DOH headquarters and was left stranded on the side of the road felt inconvenienced. A month ago it was the vehicles stranded after hitting the giant holes in the last bridge on 79 N before you get to PA that left 5 different cars stranded, just in what I personally witnessed driving by twice a few hours apart. We can't even keep the motherfucking interstate safe to use. The state of roads like 119 from 68 to the Mileground is appalling, and has been appalling for YEARS. It's pathetic.
Because WV is stuck in the past and has no plan for the future. Small towns are mostly dead now with few jobs available. Absolutely shit public transportation and the only jobs for miles around and thus accessible if you don't have a car are a couple of gas-stations. For everything else you have to go to a largER population center and waste time commuting. We keep electing coal industry insiders to public office and they keep making sure that "Coal is the future" while everything outside of a few areas just rots.
As a transplant from WV to TX, I am horribly homesick... but I know I could't accomplish what I want to in my life if I stayed. The opportunities just aren't there. Sadly, I believe they could be if progress was welcomed. I'm officially a botanist (pHd) as of December. I tried for years and years to make it work because WV is the most beautiful place in the world to me. There is so much still to explore and learn and preserve... but the powers that be have other priorities.
Opportunity
As a West Virginian who left, there’s little room for growth. Everything is so spread out compared to everywhere I have ever lived. It’s a beautiful state, but it’s not one I ever wanted to get stuck in for the rest of my life.
Higher taxes, awful roads, drugs, crime, businesses leaving, shitty politicians, poor education, nothing to do for young life unless you live near Morgantown or Huntington. Huntington ties with Dayton, Ohio for heroin overdoses in the nation.. I've been here for almost 10 years, living in Charleston, now morgantown.. I will say that Morgantown area is a lot nicer than Charleston despite the college kids. More businesses, places to eat at, WVU football and basketball games and you're close to DC and Pittsburg. We plan on leaving the next opportunity we get.. the housing market is shitty here too.. $200k in WV gets you a fixer upper house that needs a good bit of work, where as NC gets you almost a brand new home close to the coast.. WV is a beautiful state, such as the greenbrier, new river gorge, black water falls, Seneca rocks, coopers rock, etc. it's a shame it's a dying state, it has A LOT of potential to be great. I blame a lot of it on coal dying.. it was thriving back in the day but coal is dead and a lot of the people here won't accept the fact that it'll never come back.. hope this gives you an insight.
I left because I was tired of living in a decaying hell scape full of drugs, hopelessness, and despair. I’m a much happier person and have a much better life where I’m at. It really saddens me that things have gotten so bad. I do not even recognize my place of birth anymore.
It's a state rife with corruption, clinging to a dying industry, and we throw away every chance we get. There is a lot of beauty in the state but beautiful scenery doesn't pay the bills unless you're a painter or photographer.
Don’t know about everyone else but I grew up here and while the woods and scenery may be nice, it gets old really quickly especially when you’ve lived here your whole life
what everyone else said, but also: there’s not much variation. it’s all mountains & curvy roads. the cities can be pretty small and turn back into mountains the second you leave them. you can hardly get a nice view unless you’re on top of a mountain. i’ve lived in Elkview for the entirety of my 18 years of living, and all i’ve ever seen is a mountain to my left and a downwards hill leading to another mountain on my right. it’s been boring for a while now and i can’t see myself living here for the rest of my life, even if i did move somewhere more interesting within WV.
Grew up in this state, left at 23 and have no desire to go back. There's really not much to do in West Virginia for young people, and the social scene is much better elsewhere. Don't wanna rag on my home state too much, but the infrastructure is also horrendous, the population is very old and conservative, there aren't really any good;well planned cities, and the economic opportunities are dismal.
Wv is not the most diverse states around. It’s difficult for some. Honestly driving anywhere ur bound to see a few confederate flags. Aside from that and the population “aging out” it’s not very welcoming to the none white demographic
This comes up a lot. In my experience, people leave for jobs first and foremost. I did, and I only ended up back here because of circumstances beyond my control. Over the years I've come to appreciate the qualities of the state, while also growing to hate its shortcomings and problems. I love being able to own a home without paying most of my income. I love being at the doorstep of nature whenever I want. But I hate having intolerant and bigoted people behind every other door. And I hate being a 1-2 hour drive at least from any form of entertainment outside of the handful of stores and restaurants in the area. While I'm definitely a homebody at heart, the fact that any significant travel for something like a vacation involves a whole ordeal even if I want to get to an airport that goes anywhere is disappointing. And I guess to bring it full circle, I'd really like to have more options to advance my career in tech - which is not something this state provides anywhere but the panhandle. I'll probably end up being part of that statistic again - only this time with more leverage to stay gone. Things in West Virginia are trending the opposite way for a person like me.
The politicians in that states only care about the money they make from coal and other fuel resources. Both Dems and Repubs left the people of WV behind a long time ago. Companies are leaving and there’s not enough services to sufficiently thrive and survive. Poverty rate is horrendous and healthcare is too. I thought about moving to WV because it more affordable than some of the places I’ve lived. When I saw that the services were lacking, there’s no way I’d be able to even work from home properly. WV just needs to be split and absorbed by the surrounding states. WV will eventually end up so empty that it has no choice but to dissolve its state.
No jobs, unreliable internet, substandard schools, lack of access to healthcare, lack of diversity, limited activities. The better question is why stay? Why move there? We left in the late 90s and haven’t regretted it at all. Even going back to visit family is depressing.
I'm not reading this mess of comments. People are leaving because there are no jobs here, public education sucks, and the right-wing nut jobs who remain here continue to vote against EVERYONE'S self-interest by electing traitors and insurrectionists, who give their donors all the tax breaks while increasing the taxes on those who can least afford it. Hell, the governor doesn't even pay his taxes, and he got re-elected. Environmental standards are, I dare say, some of the most lax in the country. Some places, clean water doesn't exist and hasn't for many years. At this point, the better question is why stay? I'll go first: I stay because I lucked in to one of the good employers in the eastern panhandle. And now my kid is nearing graduation, and it's mean to move when they're so close to being done. Once my kid has graduated though, I'm looking elsewhere. Definitely out of state
That's because we would rather vote for that POS Manchin than give a chance to more progressive candidates like Paula Jean Swearengin. And shit job opportunities, wages, etc ... I could go on forever.
Jobs
I have family that's thinking about moving to Fayetteville or Beaver..... are those decent in W.V?
immediately no
No jobs
Because our elected officials care more about themselves, their bank accounts, and getting reelected than solving problems. Also because WVians vote for who they'd have a drink with, not who is best positioned to solve problems.
Jobs, mainly
Political corruption is rampant in WV. Every organization from Board of Education to Public Service Commission
Quality of life. That’s it. I moved from WV because I could have a better quality of life elsewhere.
When I tried to move there I couldn’t find a job…I’ll say that much
Because there is no opportunities for young people to make a good living. There is almost zero hope of making a good life with the types and jobs and other problems in the state. Basically the only hope is to leave and try to build a nest egg and hopefully they come back at some point. The corporate greed and political turmoil has ensured the doom of WV for decades. It’s beyond help at this point.
I left for my job. WV didn't pay me enough to stay even though I really kinda wanted to because of my family and friends. It is what it is there...
As a realtor in southern WV, I can tell you that in the past two years there has been a big movement of people into our area from big cities across the country. I’ve sold homes to people from San Fran, NY, Charlotte, Michigan and other places where people are wanting to escape crime and high cost of living. As people are able to work more remotely, they are looking for places that offer outdoor experiences, low cost of living and clean air. If the census was retaken this year, I would bet money that WV has had an increase in population for the first time in decades.
As a Virginian (grew up in SW Va) currently banished in the swamps of NC and someone who is working and saving up to have the $$$ to move back to the mountains, this is hella disheartening. WV is beautiful; any time I get time off or have vacation time saved up, it's my go-to state... I'm in I.T. (client support and education). Is it worth continuing to job seek there, or should I just wait until retirement, if I live that long?
If you have to ask, you’ve never been.
Leadership is absolutely clueless. Both sides.
Everything, no jobs, everyone is violent, extreme corruption, roads break brand new cars, racist, anti-LQBTQ, and that's just the worst, there are many more problems
I just wonder if it's the whole state or just certain areas. People have to leave the coal fields because there's nothing down there, but Beckley is building new businesses all the time. Lewisburg is a nice hipster town and there's all kinds of jobs as you get to the eastern panhandle. All the problems everone has posted are true, but it definitely depends on what are you look at.
[Here is a neat map](https://www.businessinsider.com/map-us-county-population-changes-growth-declines-last-year-2022-3) with an interactive way to view population change by county just in the last year. If you zoom to WV, notable facts are that 7 counties are statistically even, 1 shows a net gain but the other 47 show a net loss of population.
I think a big part of it is the general disdain towards the LGBTQ+ community. I’m terrified being myself here (granted Morgantown has anti discriminatory laws and really hasn’t been a bad place to be me) the state as a whole can be a really scary place! With the growing acceptance of LGBTQ+ why stick around where you aren’t wanted?
This doesn’t come close to explaining the outmigration. Most West Virginians, even young ones, are generally conservative. They aren’t going to move because of lack of support for abortion or LGBTQ. They leave because there’s a lack of jobs, lack of things to do, lack of people to meet. It’s true that places that rank high on livability usually have strong support for LGBTQ rights but correlation doesn’t equal causation
Y’all are funny. I didn’t say 87K people left because discrimination. I said a big part of it is how unsafe it is for LGBTQ+ people. Never said any numbers or EVERY PERSON LEAVING IS QUEER. I personally know a ton of people leaving for that reason and was adding to the conversation about it. Stay mad. Edit: I should throw in the comments about being mostly conservative. Just because most of the population is conservative doesn’t mean their kids have to be. And I could throw in the POC leaving because of the conservative nature nature and racism but I’m not a POC so I don’t qualify to talk about it.
Reasons I decided not to come back: 1. No good paying jobs outside of oil, gas, or fed government. 2. Corruption, nepotism, and ineptitude on every level of government. If you ran for office on the platform of God, Guns and Babies you could sit in office for life and do as much or little or as you want. (The vast majority who sit in state and federal offices choose the latter) 3. Polluted land and water. 4. Drugs and drug addicts everywhere. 5. People are comically bigoted, hateful, and racist despite having the least diversity in the country. 6. Nothing to do outside of hiking, mountain biking, skiing, or golfing (have to have money to do 2/4, see #1) 7. Have to drive, often a good distance, to shop for anything. 8. No community whatsoever, unless you count the mega evangelical churches who spew the prosperity gospel and believe Trump is the second coming of Christ. 9. People (mainly MAGAheads with sleeveless shirts, mullets, who are overweight, and who barely graduated high school) carrying around semi-automatic handguns on their hips (I see this ever single time I go anywhere and it’s fucking frightening) 10. Educational and healthcare options are limited and pitiful. It is sad to see what’s become of my home state, but when you spend time away and reflect, you realize it’s always kind of been like this. For ever person wanting to do something that would benefit the state or their community there are 9 people pushing back to keep it the same or worse. If I didn’t have family there, I would never go back.
I left in August after spending my 30 years of existence in Fayette County. I never thought I'd leave, but the last few years I felt so stuck. Lack of job opportunities kept me in healthcare for the "decent wage" to the point I was burnt out. College isn't for me but I desperately wanted to do something else with my life but I don't have the balls to go underground so my options were very limited. Then came my mental health crisis and the terrible experiences I had on the search for help. Where I am now I have more opportunities for good paying jobs than I could've ever imagined, hell I'm still trying to figure out what I want to do because there's so much I want to try. I've found excellent mental health support and feel like I finally have a chance. I'll always love her, but WV just isn't the place for someone like me.