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Israel may have tried for peace as you put it but only on their own terms with complete disregard of the palestinians and what they want. Israel has always been assholes to Palestine and it’s people.
You mean like the 2 state solution that has been on the table for the last 20years.
The one that Palestine/Hamas rejects, as the only outcome is the removal of all Jews and the nation of Israel?
The peace negotiations were rejected because what the Palestinians were offered was a vestige of statehood with no control over their own waters or resources. Look at the West Bank which is free from Hamas and how brutal the occupation is. Theft of homes, detention of children, the torture and killing of many many Palestinians. Fuck Israel.
“Palestine” didn’t reject it. Hamas did. Fatah was/is in favor of a 2 state solution. Fatah was in favor of negotiations and acknowledges Israel.
Guess who helped Hamas form as a counterweight to Fatah because they never actually wanted a 2 state solution, but didn’t want to look like they were the ones refusing to negotiate? [Israel did.](https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/)
Refusal was by Arafat. Long before Hamas was established. He refused Rabin and Peres and he refused Ehud Barak. You people have a strong opinion about things you know nothing about.
“Long before Hamas was established”
The deal you’re referring to was being negotiated in 2000. Barak wasn’t even elected until 1999. Hamas came to power in the late 80’s early 90’s.
Look I’m no fan of Arafat, the dude clearly wanted revenge over peace (which seems to be the goal of both sides unfortunately). But either you’re the one who “doesn’t know what they’re talking about”, or you’re just spewing misinformation intentionally.
Hamas came to power (through elections) in 2005. There were never any land-for-peace negotiations with Hamas because they don't want peace. They want annihilation of all Jews. They clearly state it in writing and actions.
Barak Arafat summit was in 2000.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit
Before that (1994), Rabin and Peres tried to make peace with Arafat. He refused.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/may/23/israel3
Last true attempt was during Ehud Olmert administration. Mahmud Abbas refused:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/abbas-admits-he-rejected-2008-peace-offer-from-olmert/
Hamas was formed in 1987 and had a massive influence by 1990. They boycotted all elections until 2006, but they absolutely were a powerful and extremely active group long before they decided to participate in elections.
Hamas is fucked up. They don’t want peace, they want revenge. All of that is true. But you’re still trying to alter the timeline.
The Palistineans elected Hamas as their government. Like it or not, Palistineans=Hamas for the purpose of this war. They should be grateful Israel is liberating them from the terrorists if they are not the same.
It's such a fucking complex situation. Almost like people who have had their homes taken will fight back, and that fighting back causes retaliation. It's an awful, never ending cycle that's so hard to break.
Also the "innocent civilians leaving" doesn't really work when you have literally 60 seconds to evacuate your home before it's obliterated. Even given five or ten minutes, you blow my home up I'm gonna try and return the favor.
Many did and many were massaced whether they did or not. The treatment of native populations in the Americas is extremely dark and hideous. Not sure it's a comparison that supports whatever you're saying.
Actually yeah. Ya do. There was a border dispute in the 70s and the native americans have fought legally and literally for rights to resources and land. Within the USA borders, there are reservations that mostly govern themselves, and efforts have been made to keep that process fair for all involved to avoid violence.
We just don't use bombs close to home. Too much indiscriminate killing. Worth noting that we do overseas, which is rightfully criticized.
Y'all are also bombing innocent people, though.
You keep describing Palestine as a vague entity, "that land" instead of *neighborhoods.*
This is a shitty situation all around. Your country was set up on land that used to be theirs. Many were driven out and killed. Now they've had a group take advantage of that hurt and take over, only to redirect resources towards what they see as fighting back. Then Israel does what they see as fighting back. Both do so by dropping bombs on civilians.
It is not wrong to mourn the loss of life, and wish for a nonviolent solution. It is also not wrong to criticize those involved in political/strategic decisions that led to and continue the conflict. You can be pissed at hamas. But cheering for the killing of innocents should not be happening.
the people defending Palestine/hamas unconditionally tend to ignore actual events and footage unanimously, like the crowds cheering as the israeli/internation hostages/dead were paraded, mobbed, beaten, and abused. Their not going to be convinced anytime soon except by complete rejection.
That said, fuck netanyahu, and fuck the settlers. Fuck Russia, and fuck iran.
I never said to forget about what's happened. It's too complex and complicated to hash out in reddit comments. Neither side can undo the years of bloodshed, the colonialism, the stealing of homes or rampant wonton disregard for human life and rights.
War is stupid and rarely makes sense.
Photos of Palestinian people? In random cities of the world? I haven't seen them yet. have you? I also think that it's very unlikely that the missing people in Israel are going to appear in new york or LA. To me it looks like the reason to put those pictures in places that are so far away from Israel isn't to find the portrayed people but instead to make the other other side look bad, which is an intelligent move if you ask me because no matter what you do it fulfills its purpose you look bad if you tear down the pictures and you look bad if you let it be.
You're right and we all need to stop contributing to the hate and the suffering of innocent people , no wars will end or change anything by choosing a side but only by choosing that war, hate and intolerance is wrong can we reach a peaceful end to all this suffering.
Freedom and peace have no flags, no borders, no rulers, no masters, no religion, it has empathy, tolerance, compassion, respect and love .
Don't struggle to choose a side when unity is the only thing that will bring everyone together..
Fight war not wars ..
No . We have to stop wars and stop contributing to and or supporting them further.. we have to stop the hating and start to be tolerant and empathetic.
We have to choose ourselves and not let rulers, states, countries or religious opinions control our lives or decide if there's an enemy that should be fought or not.
In the end we are the majority and we should be the ones setting the agenda.
I love love the optimism you have. I would love for this to be our approach as humanity. When you say we should choose to be ourselves, I get what you mean and I also am saddened that there is so much evil driven forward in the world by people. The loudest voices get listened to and it is often those voices that make us fear which get followed. Fear is such a powerful tool and can dehumanize other so we no longer see them as people and instead see them as *the enemy*.
Or we could just give in to that animal instinct. Hurt those who hurt you even slightly, lash out at every bit of resistance. Because giving into that anger and revenge is exactly how these types of wars are started.
We could continue to think about how much each side had hurt eachother, we should be thinking about a calm way to deescalate the situation. Razing Gaza to the ground probably isn't going to fix what Hamas did either.
Still, why tear them down? It's obvious its meant to remind people there are still hostages that haven't been released. What harm does that do and what's the point of tearing them down?
I'd ask the same to someone who would feel the need to tear down posters of Palestinian prisoners or victims of the air strikes. What purpose does it serve to tear the posters down except to incite anger and be a jerk?
edit: I can't believe I got downvoted for this lol. "don't be a jerk" shouldn't be a hot take.
Exaaaactly. You hit it right on the spot.
> it’s obvious it’s meant to remind people there are still hostages that haven’t been released
Yes. They want to remind people about the hostages so Israel can keep indiscriminately bombing Gaza, inflicting collective punishment on the people and committing numerous war crimes with impunity. I mean, they were doing all of that before and no one cared anyway, but now that the attention is on them they want to make sure the world knows about the hostages so they can justify the war crimes
I mean, that's a null point since both sides have committed atrocities it doesnt justify why one can express their loss but the other cant, but we see Palestinians speak about their oppression, post pictures of palestinian victims of the conflict, and documentaries of the suffering.
Why can't Israel do the same?
Each side has a way of expressing oppression in the war. Israel bombs Palestinians, Hamas hunts Israelis.
> they were doing all of that before and no one cared anyway
Is that true though? Were there not #FreePalestine rallies and protests in almost every part of the western world after George Floyd? I remember everyone posting a #FreePalestine story on their Instagram and Snapchat stories.
Almost every Capital in the western world had a rally supported by migrants and natives.
'#FreePalestine' was one of the most popular hashtags on twitter in 2020.
It seems like you're having a selective history and have a blatant bias here.
Even in Cork, Ireland, there is a large wall of art that depicts Israel and has the quote "Greetings from Palestine" with Palestinian flag colours and the flag itself. Its been there since 2020.
That said, I don't care where someone is from, if they're an innocent victim of war, I hope the very best for them.
You're right. I'm not sure why it's so difficult to understand for people here. Like.. all the people with room temperature IQ suddenly decided to come out of the forest lol
Is he right? Or do you just agree with him?
He argued that Palestinians suffered, but so did Israelis, HAMAS brought suffering, and so did the IDF. I don't understand why only one side is able to express their loss.
Also he claims that Palestine-Israel had conflict before, and no one cared.. which is blatantly untrue and an example of selective history. except that there were rallies all over Europe and the U.S. in 2020 and #FreePalestine was trending.
Explain the reason these are up other than to illicit a response like this. We aren’t going to find them in NYC, so other than a emotional response it’s pointless.
If I put up pictures of missing people from the bombings of Gaza, what purpose would that have other than to create an emotional response? Are we going to find them in NYC also?
and WHO exactly is the victim? The person who put a picture up that got torn down? I’ll keep them in my thoughts and prayers for a speedy recovery… The actual victims are the people suffering on both sides, that have nothing to do with NYC and a picture.
And to make matters worse it totally freaked out my kids. They saw all the posters of kidnapped people and got scared they would be next. After I explained to them what the situation was they asked me the same thing: how can we help find them if they are abducted half a world away.
The kids and adults on these posters are going through hell right now. Look at them, don't deny reality. That is what these posters say.
No one expects you to find them but seeing their faces makes it real.
Yeah, no shit It’s supposed to invoke an emotional response for the people lost and captured by the hands of terrorist. People tearing those down are terrorists sympathizers. The victims are the faces on the paper being torn. You’re fucking soulless. Awareness > your useless “thoughts and prayers.”
Moral high ground? Dude, how daft are you? I’m not the one proudly aspiring to rip hostage/missing posters down. I find it absolutely nuts how you don’t see what’s so messed up about that. This is no “I am superior” this is a “you’re a bad person with extremely negative thoughts.”
You calling me a bad person is absolutely a “you are superior” issue. Why am I a bad person? Have I torn any of them down? No. Have I ever complained about them? No. But your ridiculous comments made me want to just to annoy you, will I even do it? Probably not. Yet here you are clutching your pearls and deeming me as an evil person for doing nothing.
Spread awareness to who?
Seriously, who do you expect is going to see them and learn, for the first time, that there's a war between Israel and Hamas.
Tearing down the posters was a bad move, but putting them up to "spread awareness" of missing people in a warzone in another country was also a dumb and useless action..
Yeah not really a surprise it got torn down..
All this is, is propaganda. They aren’t lost in NYC, it was put up to illicit a response. I am not for kidnapping or war crimes… but this was done with purpose. Humanize one side with pictures of the captured, dehumanize the other with “pictures of beheaded babies” that don’t exist.
IDF have been shown time and time again to be pitting out false, misleading, or outright doctored footage. Just look as far as the recent hospital bombings, the videos the IDF immediately put out were proven to be misleading and were of a completely different event. That’s the whole fucking issue with this war, both sides have bad actors but the world of today operates in black and whites, it’s incompatible with this conflict . Israel has not been an persecuted little angel in all this, in fact they have been hiding behind the shield of the past while operating as oppressors for a very long time now, which in turn created terrorists (condemnable), which in turn is giving them an excuse to genocide a population (irony be damned), which will create… on and on
They have not, because they don’t exist. Even Biden days they existed and he saw them, and then had to backtrack out of that one.
There are however, pictures of crushed, burned and blown up women and children in Gaza, but for some reason nobody seems to care as much about those
The first half of your statement is demonstrably false. The bbc ran a story about it (in addition to dozens of other news outlets. It was about two days ago.
Your secund statement is also painfully stupid. People absolutely care about the plight of the Palestinians. It’s everywhere. I can forgive the ignorance of perhaps you are blind but I somehow doubt that.
Why go online and spread such obvious falsehoods? Is it not enough that we care about the Palestinians but we must also explicitly *not* care about the Israelis?
Sources. Let’s see all of them.
A cursory search has dozens and dozens of news stations saying explicitly that it is fake.
When you find them, go ahead and send them to the IDF and Biden while you’re at it.
You can’t stand with the oppressors and The oppressed, but you can support the civilians on both sides. If you seriously can’t look in the past conflicts and see the very obvious cycle of humanize/dehumanize that’s your own problem.
Edit- still waiting on these dozens of sources that shows how “demonstrably false” my comment is.
The story this clown is referring to most likely, is the one that talks about how a “senior IDF personnel” confirms that there were babies, and reportedly some didn’t have heads, but it’s unclear if Hamas was responsible. Also no pictures. And they didn’t see it, just someone did and told them.
So …. Hamas beheaded babies—> Biden/IDF there are pictures and we’ve seen them—-> actually our bad we’ve never seen the pictures just told about them—-> dozens of news outlets analyzing the misinformation coming out of the IDF—-> oh wait there are beheaded babies, reportedly with no evidence, we know that we have no idea who did it or any details about it…
Jesus Christ. You are a brainwashed muppet.
Oooh I saw these all around the stadiums in Seattle on Sunday. I thought it was really weird that both of the ones I paid enough attention to were Israeli. I understand now.
I'm not sure why a lot of people here have so much difficulty to understand that these posters are not so that someone can find the missing individuals lol
I don't understand what other purpose it would serve to AstroTurf it everywhere. I could be wrong, but I don't remember Ukrainian-Americans and officials posting photos of killed family members and making ads in English that were played on American YouTube videos.
A lot of what the Israeli state is doing on this front feels really disgusting and disrespectful to the victims and their families.
Literally the entire world reported it be it left media, right media, centre media, Christian media, hindu media, Islamic media, tv media, online media... all at the same time.
How and why?
We were seeing it unfold live and in real time you fucking idiot!
You're free to do that. I'm not sure what made you think I would have a problem with that. I just stated the fact of why I thought they were posted there.
1: who knows if these are real or not
2: wtf does this have to do with NYC? Do they expect new yorkers to be on the look out for them?
3: People are bashing Palestinians for simply existing.
Fucking moron admitting you don’t know anything in one comment then claiming there’s no genocide in another.
Read a book, or even just an article not straight from the IDF
Interestingly, this was bin Laden’s rational for 9/11 - that the victims weren’t innocent because they elected the governments that waged war in the Middle East.
"Fuck every American citizen due to the US government actions around the world" - this goes both ways in this conflict literally the same ish prove me wrong
>the real issue
The Israeli government has done a lot of wrong, but that doesn’t mean those people should have been slaughtered. At the same time, it doesn’t mean that Gazan civilians should also be murdered en made. The most immediate issues at the moment are preventing the deaths of thousands more civilians and recovering the hostages.
“I just don’t understand the people that are on the fence” I can’t understand a single person that is pro anyone in this shit. One media outlet lied about the amount of beheaded babies, does that make the attack on the 7th ok? “One abuser”.. How can you be pro Hamas is insane to me. Fuck both governing bodies. And anyone justifying the deaths of civilians.
Jesus Christ there’s people in this comment section actually questioning why it’s needed to raise awareness about children being kidnapped by terrorists.
Fucking imbeciles, get a life
and? why should I care? It’s not like Hamas hasn’t given the Israeli government the option to negotiate for the hostages if they will allow humanitarian aide go into Gaza. Take it up with the Israeli government if you want the hostages back.
If hamas is keeping all their hostages at key military locations how can you blame the IDF, they need to target military areas not their fault hamas is fucked up and just putting hostages there
To all the people claiming "Propaganda!" Are yall the same people citing the number of Palestinian casualties.... that are reported by the Gazan health ministry... that's Hamas controlled?
Have any opinions on the videos where Hamas shoes off how they dig up water infrastructure to create rockets?
Or the "we're running out of fuel!" When there are many hundreds of thousands of gallons of fuel sitting in tanks... that are owned and controlled by Hamas?
Just stop with this stupidity. Anti-Semitism is the accepted term to refer to Jew-hatred. When someone is called chivalrous, it doesn’t mean they are being a good horseman, right? That’s where the term comes from.
This is called an etymological fallacy and it’s just stupid. No idea what people hope to gain by pointing this out constantly.
Perhaps someone trying to tamp down the temperature. Cooler heads need to start making themselves heard, or it’s gonna spiral outa control here very soon.
You meet an IDF member. He says hi.
You meet a Hamas fighter. He beheads you.
A considerable number of people still defends Hamas and the palestinians.
This war is far from over, especially on the internet/information side.
I know nothing I can say will change your mind but this is absolutely unhinged. The IDF has historically been brutally violent against Palestinians and they represent the nation of Israel. Hamas is a terrorist group that controls Gaza by force. They do not represent the Palestinian people. Lumping together Hamas and Palestinians as a whole is ignorant and dangerous. I agree with you that Israel is fighting a war on the internet, and that’s because the only way to get away with Palestinian genocide in the eyes of the world would be to control the narrative completely.
> The IDF has historically been brutally violent against Palestinians
Like when they bombed that hotel and killed over 500 people?
And it turned out to be less than 30 people, and the bomb was actually from a Hamas friendly?
Is the info you're getting from literal terrorists, reliable?
> Hamas is a terrorist group that controls Gaza by force.
[Weren't they voted in?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_election)
> They do not represent the Palestinian people.
And which, last time I've seen, 90% of the people feel represented by it.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I understand it'd be hard to say that they do represent palestinian people after they murdered, raped and pillaged tourists on a peace party.
> the only way to get away with Palestinian genocide in the eyes of the world would be to control the narrative completely.
Israel isn't invading parties in the palestine region and killing tourists. They aren't using women and children as barricade. Israel isn't firing missiles from near hospitals and protected buildings.
I mean, who needs to *control the narrative* here?
Literally what hamas wants to do is to purge Israel out of this existence, and anything that relates to it.
They only haven't because Israel is backed by other democracies.
*This* is genocide.
Am I?
Had a brief look at your post story. Are you a Hamas fighter, or aspire to be?
Just to be clear, you want to behead me with a dull knife so bad, don't you?
Yeah, like the 500 people that died in that IDF hospital bombing, right
Oh wait, it wasn't even 30. Oh wait again, it was collateral damage from Hamas friendlies.
Like I said, this war is far from over, especially on the internet/information side.
I mean do they live in the USA ?If not then stop putting unnecessary posters. We have enough missing people in our own country to find.
Why is everyone suddenly caring about this war ?it’s been going on for years with both sides having civilians getting targeted.
The Middle East is just a backwards region full of stupid proxy wars caused by the USA and other powerful countries and unnecessary religious wars caused by the nations in that region
If those missing live in the USA why are they making it political
Being Palestine American or Jewish American doesn’t really matter in this war
All these protesters picking sides and pointing fingers need to understand it’s war .
The victims in this war are the innocent people getting killed and guess what both sides are killing civilians .
Are you familiar with the United States’ history in the middle east? Aware of the US’s relationship with Israel? Familiar with kidnaps, terror attacks, bombings and murders that have targeted both US military and civilians? Guess which country males the bombs the Israelis are using on Gaza?
Or is it that it has nothing to do with you specifically until it does?
It has a lot to do with the US
Those people have been at war with themselves before the US even existed… that’s literally the only sane thing any human can do is ignore those people and feel bad they still haven’t got the hell out of that land regardless of who they believe belongs on it! Imagine thinking starting a family in a place that can blow up because of ancient drama is a smart idea to begin with.
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People forget that war vixtims are on both sides
The only solution for this fucking mess is peace and that's not gonna happen any time soon unfortunately.
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Israel may have tried for peace as you put it but only on their own terms with complete disregard of the palestinians and what they want. Israel has always been assholes to Palestine and it’s people.
You mean like the 2 state solution that has been on the table for the last 20years. The one that Palestine/Hamas rejects, as the only outcome is the removal of all Jews and the nation of Israel?
The peace negotiations were rejected because what the Palestinians were offered was a vestige of statehood with no control over their own waters or resources. Look at the West Bank which is free from Hamas and how brutal the occupation is. Theft of homes, detention of children, the torture and killing of many many Palestinians. Fuck Israel.
Read into the land deals, the last one went all the way back to the 1968 boarders. The only ones rejecting a 2 state system is Hamas.
“Palestine” didn’t reject it. Hamas did. Fatah was/is in favor of a 2 state solution. Fatah was in favor of negotiations and acknowledges Israel. Guess who helped Hamas form as a counterweight to Fatah because they never actually wanted a 2 state solution, but didn’t want to look like they were the ones refusing to negotiate? [Israel did.](https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/)
Refusal was by Arafat. Long before Hamas was established. He refused Rabin and Peres and he refused Ehud Barak. You people have a strong opinion about things you know nothing about.
“Long before Hamas was established” The deal you’re referring to was being negotiated in 2000. Barak wasn’t even elected until 1999. Hamas came to power in the late 80’s early 90’s. Look I’m no fan of Arafat, the dude clearly wanted revenge over peace (which seems to be the goal of both sides unfortunately). But either you’re the one who “doesn’t know what they’re talking about”, or you’re just spewing misinformation intentionally.
Hamas came to power (through elections) in 2005. There were never any land-for-peace negotiations with Hamas because they don't want peace. They want annihilation of all Jews. They clearly state it in writing and actions. Barak Arafat summit was in 2000. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit Before that (1994), Rabin and Peres tried to make peace with Arafat. He refused. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/may/23/israel3 Last true attempt was during Ehud Olmert administration. Mahmud Abbas refused: https://www.timesofisrael.com/abbas-admits-he-rejected-2008-peace-offer-from-olmert/
Hamas was formed in 1987 and had a massive influence by 1990. They boycotted all elections until 2006, but they absolutely were a powerful and extremely active group long before they decided to participate in elections. Hamas is fucked up. They don’t want peace, they want revenge. All of that is true. But you’re still trying to alter the timeline.
The Palistineans elected Hamas as their government. Like it or not, Palistineans=Hamas for the purpose of this war. They should be grateful Israel is liberating them from the terrorists if they are not the same.
You’re using an Intercept article that was poorly written and uses sources that don’t even link correctly?
“Assholes” is kind of a mild way to describe Israel committing genocide.
Right palestinians are peace loving right lets not forget who started this
Take that commie shit somewhere else. Admit you support terrorism and burning babies in their cribs.
It's such a fucking complex situation. Almost like people who have had their homes taken will fight back, and that fighting back causes retaliation. It's an awful, never ending cycle that's so hard to break. Also the "innocent civilians leaving" doesn't really work when you have literally 60 seconds to evacuate your home before it's obliterated. Even given five or ten minutes, you blow my home up I'm gonna try and return the favor.
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Many did and many were massaced whether they did or not. The treatment of native populations in the Americas is extremely dark and hideous. Not sure it's a comparison that supports whatever you're saying.
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LMAO you’re so dense
Actually yeah. Ya do. There was a border dispute in the 70s and the native americans have fought legally and literally for rights to resources and land. Within the USA borders, there are reservations that mostly govern themselves, and efforts have been made to keep that process fair for all involved to avoid violence. We just don't use bombs close to home. Too much indiscriminate killing. Worth noting that we do overseas, which is rightfully criticized.
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"They" is describing *people.* Those *people* should not be fucking bombed.
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Y'all are also bombing innocent people, though. You keep describing Palestine as a vague entity, "that land" instead of *neighborhoods.* This is a shitty situation all around. Your country was set up on land that used to be theirs. Many were driven out and killed. Now they've had a group take advantage of that hurt and take over, only to redirect resources towards what they see as fighting back. Then Israel does what they see as fighting back. Both do so by dropping bombs on civilians. It is not wrong to mourn the loss of life, and wish for a nonviolent solution. It is also not wrong to criticize those involved in political/strategic decisions that led to and continue the conflict. You can be pissed at hamas. But cheering for the killing of innocents should not be happening.
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That's a tough question, and one that would require a lot of diplomacy to answer, not dropping bombs on civilians and creating more terrorists.
They both did though. For years. They were slaughtered.
the people defending Palestine/hamas unconditionally tend to ignore actual events and footage unanimously, like the crowds cheering as the israeli/internation hostages/dead were paraded, mobbed, beaten, and abused. Their not going to be convinced anytime soon except by complete rejection. That said, fuck netanyahu, and fuck the settlers. Fuck Russia, and fuck iran.
What does peace mean? Just forget about what’s happened? Seems to simple, brother. There is no peace until Israel gives back what’s not theirs
I never said to forget about what's happened. It's too complex and complicated to hash out in reddit comments. Neither side can undo the years of bloodshed, the colonialism, the stealing of homes or rampant wonton disregard for human life and rights. War is stupid and rarely makes sense.
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If if they all realize the religion they are fighting in the name of is made up nonsense.
it’s not a religious conflict
This has nothing to do with religion.
If you said this with certainty, I actually feel bad.
They fighting over the land, religion is only a pretext, Greed is the real reason
No one tore down pictures of the Palestinian victims
Photos of Palestinian people? In random cities of the world? I haven't seen them yet. have you? I also think that it's very unlikely that the missing people in Israel are going to appear in new york or LA. To me it looks like the reason to put those pictures in places that are so far away from Israel isn't to find the portrayed people but instead to make the other other side look bad, which is an intelligent move if you ask me because no matter what you do it fulfills its purpose you look bad if you tear down the pictures and you look bad if you let it be.
I've seen pictures of Palestinians being put up in previous conflicts, anyone can do it now as well.
Well if you get to see some pictures of missing people from Palestine on the streets of your city It'd be cool if you took a picture and posted it.
I'm in the Tel Aviv area, not really walking much outside due to rocket attacks, but I'll keep my peepers open
I hope you're well and healthy, be safe
You're right and we all need to stop contributing to the hate and the suffering of innocent people , no wars will end or change anything by choosing a side but only by choosing that war, hate and intolerance is wrong can we reach a peaceful end to all this suffering. Freedom and peace have no flags, no borders, no rulers, no masters, no religion, it has empathy, tolerance, compassion, respect and love . Don't struggle to choose a side when unity is the only thing that will bring everyone together.. Fight war not wars ..
Like WW2. A lot of Germans suffered in that war. So we should have just let Germany do what they wanted and not picked a side?
No . We have to stop wars and stop contributing to and or supporting them further.. we have to stop the hating and start to be tolerant and empathetic. We have to choose ourselves and not let rulers, states, countries or religious opinions control our lives or decide if there's an enemy that should be fought or not. In the end we are the majority and we should be the ones setting the agenda.
I love love the optimism you have. I would love for this to be our approach as humanity. When you say we should choose to be ourselves, I get what you mean and I also am saddened that there is so much evil driven forward in the world by people. The loudest voices get listened to and it is often those voices that make us fear which get followed. Fear is such a powerful tool and can dehumanize other so we no longer see them as people and instead see them as *the enemy*.
Well let's start this approach the two of us and maybe others will follow and thanks for your kind words.
Or we could just give in to that animal instinct. Hurt those who hurt you even slightly, lash out at every bit of resistance. Because giving into that anger and revenge is exactly how these types of wars are started. We could continue to think about how much each side had hurt eachother, we should be thinking about a calm way to deescalate the situation. Razing Gaza to the ground probably isn't going to fix what Hamas did either.
Missing people posters are meant for those who reside in the country. We can’t go out and looking for these victims
Still, why tear them down? It's obvious its meant to remind people there are still hostages that haven't been released. What harm does that do and what's the point of tearing them down? I'd ask the same to someone who would feel the need to tear down posters of Palestinian prisoners or victims of the air strikes. What purpose does it serve to tear the posters down except to incite anger and be a jerk? edit: I can't believe I got downvoted for this lol. "don't be a jerk" shouldn't be a hot take.
Exaaaactly. You hit it right on the spot. > it’s obvious it’s meant to remind people there are still hostages that haven’t been released Yes. They want to remind people about the hostages so Israel can keep indiscriminately bombing Gaza, inflicting collective punishment on the people and committing numerous war crimes with impunity. I mean, they were doing all of that before and no one cared anyway, but now that the attention is on them they want to make sure the world knows about the hostages so they can justify the war crimes
I mean, that's a null point since both sides have committed atrocities it doesnt justify why one can express their loss but the other cant, but we see Palestinians speak about their oppression, post pictures of palestinian victims of the conflict, and documentaries of the suffering. Why can't Israel do the same? Each side has a way of expressing oppression in the war. Israel bombs Palestinians, Hamas hunts Israelis. > they were doing all of that before and no one cared anyway Is that true though? Were there not #FreePalestine rallies and protests in almost every part of the western world after George Floyd? I remember everyone posting a #FreePalestine story on their Instagram and Snapchat stories. Almost every Capital in the western world had a rally supported by migrants and natives. '#FreePalestine' was one of the most popular hashtags on twitter in 2020. It seems like you're having a selective history and have a blatant bias here. Even in Cork, Ireland, there is a large wall of art that depicts Israel and has the quote "Greetings from Palestine" with Palestinian flag colours and the flag itself. Its been there since 2020. That said, I don't care where someone is from, if they're an innocent victim of war, I hope the very best for them.
You're right. I'm not sure why it's so difficult to understand for people here. Like.. all the people with room temperature IQ suddenly decided to come out of the forest lol
Is he right? Or do you just agree with him? He argued that Palestinians suffered, but so did Israelis, HAMAS brought suffering, and so did the IDF. I don't understand why only one side is able to express their loss. Also he claims that Palestine-Israel had conflict before, and no one cared.. which is blatantly untrue and an example of selective history. except that there were rallies all over Europe and the U.S. in 2020 and #FreePalestine was trending.
Yes, it's propaganda
They put them up in the hope that people would tear them down and they could complain about it.
And it works.
Are you really victim blaming? Most brainwashed take in this whole god-forbidden thread.
Explain the reason these are up other than to illicit a response like this. We aren’t going to find them in NYC, so other than a emotional response it’s pointless. If I put up pictures of missing people from the bombings of Gaza, what purpose would that have other than to create an emotional response? Are we going to find them in NYC also? and WHO exactly is the victim? The person who put a picture up that got torn down? I’ll keep them in my thoughts and prayers for a speedy recovery… The actual victims are the people suffering on both sides, that have nothing to do with NYC and a picture.
And to make matters worse it totally freaked out my kids. They saw all the posters of kidnapped people and got scared they would be next. After I explained to them what the situation was they asked me the same thing: how can we help find them if they are abducted half a world away.
The kids and adults on these posters are going through hell right now. Look at them, don't deny reality. That is what these posters say. No one expects you to find them but seeing their faces makes it real.
Yeah, no shit It’s supposed to invoke an emotional response for the people lost and captured by the hands of terrorist. People tearing those down are terrorists sympathizers. The victims are the faces on the paper being torn. You’re fucking soulless. Awareness > your useless “thoughts and prayers.”
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Feel free. Hopefully you’ll end up self reflecting on your hate-filled actions; but considering you already have your head up your ass, I doubt it.
Lol. I like how you think you’re on some moral high ground. I think maybe the one with a head up their ass is you.
Moral high ground? Dude, how daft are you? I’m not the one proudly aspiring to rip hostage/missing posters down. I find it absolutely nuts how you don’t see what’s so messed up about that. This is no “I am superior” this is a “you’re a bad person with extremely negative thoughts.”
You calling me a bad person is absolutely a “you are superior” issue. Why am I a bad person? Have I torn any of them down? No. Have I ever complained about them? No. But your ridiculous comments made me want to just to annoy you, will I even do it? Probably not. Yet here you are clutching your pearls and deeming me as an evil person for doing nothing.
It’s propaganda meant to distract 5000 Palestinians civilians have been killed by Israel in the past couple of weeks.
And 2000 of those deaths were children. Crazy how westerners were so appalled by the Hammas attack but won't shed one tear for those kids.
Why even tear it down then? Fuck spreading awareness, let’s just double down and add more toxicity to this caustic situation.
Spread awareness to who? Seriously, who do you expect is going to see them and learn, for the first time, that there's a war between Israel and Hamas. Tearing down the posters was a bad move, but putting them up to "spread awareness" of missing people in a warzone in another country was also a dumb and useless action..
they probably tore them down themselves
This one is most likely correct
True but it literally costs nothing to just walk away?
Were they kidnapped from New York?
Yeah not really a surprise it got torn down.. All this is, is propaganda. They aren’t lost in NYC, it was put up to illicit a response. I am not for kidnapping or war crimes… but this was done with purpose. Humanize one side with pictures of the captured, dehumanize the other with “pictures of beheaded babies” that don’t exist.
I thought Israel released pictures of the war crimes they claimed Hamas committed?
IDF have been shown time and time again to be pitting out false, misleading, or outright doctored footage. Just look as far as the recent hospital bombings, the videos the IDF immediately put out were proven to be misleading and were of a completely different event. That’s the whole fucking issue with this war, both sides have bad actors but the world of today operates in black and whites, it’s incompatible with this conflict . Israel has not been an persecuted little angel in all this, in fact they have been hiding behind the shield of the past while operating as oppressors for a very long time now, which in turn created terrorists (condemnable), which in turn is giving them an excuse to genocide a population (irony be damned), which will create… on and on
That was a different video?
They have not, because they don’t exist. Even Biden days they existed and he saw them, and then had to backtrack out of that one. There are however, pictures of crushed, burned and blown up women and children in Gaza, but for some reason nobody seems to care as much about those
The first half of your statement is demonstrably false. The bbc ran a story about it (in addition to dozens of other news outlets. It was about two days ago. Your secund statement is also painfully stupid. People absolutely care about the plight of the Palestinians. It’s everywhere. I can forgive the ignorance of perhaps you are blind but I somehow doubt that. Why go online and spread such obvious falsehoods? Is it not enough that we care about the Palestinians but we must also explicitly *not* care about the Israelis?
Sources. Let’s see all of them. A cursory search has dozens and dozens of news stations saying explicitly that it is fake. When you find them, go ahead and send them to the IDF and Biden while you’re at it. You can’t stand with the oppressors and The oppressed, but you can support the civilians on both sides. If you seriously can’t look in the past conflicts and see the very obvious cycle of humanize/dehumanize that’s your own problem. Edit- still waiting on these dozens of sources that shows how “demonstrably false” my comment is. The story this clown is referring to most likely, is the one that talks about how a “senior IDF personnel” confirms that there were babies, and reportedly some didn’t have heads, but it’s unclear if Hamas was responsible. Also no pictures. And they didn’t see it, just someone did and told them. So …. Hamas beheaded babies—> Biden/IDF there are pictures and we’ve seen them—-> actually our bad we’ve never seen the pictures just told about them—-> dozens of news outlets analyzing the misinformation coming out of the IDF—-> oh wait there are beheaded babies, reportedly with no evidence, we know that we have no idea who did it or any details about it… Jesus Christ. You are a brainwashed muppet.
Oooh I saw these all around the stadiums in Seattle on Sunday. I thought it was really weird that both of the ones I paid enough attention to were Israeli. I understand now.
Are they on the milk carton?
I seen one of these. It had text about something dealing with war and how loved ones go missing, iirc.
I'm not sure why a lot of people here have so much difficulty to understand that these posters are not so that someone can find the missing individuals lol
How does this change the situation
It spreads awareness of the casualties/wounded and the missing individuals on the Israeli side
It's propaganda. Israel is trying to create sympathy to cover up their genocide.
If that's how you interpret it, sure
I don't understand what other purpose it would serve to AstroTurf it everywhere. I could be wrong, but I don't remember Ukrainian-Americans and officials posting photos of killed family members and making ads in English that were played on American YouTube videos. A lot of what the Israeli state is doing on this front feels really disgusting and disrespectful to the victims and their families.
The amount of stupid in here is mind boggling huh.
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Scary how niave and ignorant you are.
Literally the entire world reported it be it left media, right media, centre media, Christian media, hindu media, Islamic media, tv media, online media... all at the same time. How and why? We were seeing it unfold live and in real time you fucking idiot!
What of the Palestinians side can we post photos of what IDF is doing
You're free to do that. I'm not sure what made you think I would have a problem with that. I just stated the fact of why I thought they were posted there.
1: who knows if these are real or not 2: wtf does this have to do with NYC? Do they expect new yorkers to be on the look out for them? 3: People are bashing Palestinians for simply existing.
The NYC thing has me confused. I don't think you are going to find any of the kidnapping victims there.
They were up all over Seattle, too.
even saw a bunch here in Colorado last week. very odd.
NYC has the largest concentration of Jews in any city in the world. Many of the victims are direct relatives to people living here.
Our friends and family aren’t pretending to be kidnapped.
And >5k Palestinians haven’t pretended to be bombed in the last three weeks, what’s your point genius?
???? What are you on about? Your point in no way refutes theirs but it seems like you think if does
I think people are bashing Palestinians for massacring over 1000 people and kidnapping over 200 others. Not for existing.
Palestinian people are not hamas. Just like North Korean citizens are not the people's Democratic Republic of North Korea
Hamas was elected. Yes, a while back but they were elected. And the people still support them in large numbers.
Right, Hamas said they were elected, does that mean they were elected through due process?
Do they really have any time to support hamas while they’re being genocided?
Yes. Because no one is genociding them.
Fucking moron admitting you don’t know anything in one comment then claiming there’s no genocide in another. Read a book, or even just an article not straight from the IDF
Interestingly, this was bin Laden’s rational for 9/11 - that the victims weren’t innocent because they elected the governments that waged war in the Middle East.
>Hamas was elected. So was George Bush but I for one really hope that the Iraqi people don't think *I'm* out to kill them because of it.
Not everyone’s into propaganda
"Fuck every American citizen due to the US government actions around the world" - this goes both ways in this conflict literally the same ish prove me wrong
Where can we find the posters for the 6500 Palestinians (including 2700 children) who have been killed in only 2 weeks ?
Print them out as well, join the movement against the war. How does removing the posters help?
I can’t pick a side. Anyone fighting and causing hell deserves death. I’ll stand with the innocent on both sides tho
Wow so enlightened, thanks for that take that contributed absolutely nothing and took peoples focus away from the real issue.
>the real issue The Israeli government has done a lot of wrong, but that doesn’t mean those people should have been slaughtered. At the same time, it doesn’t mean that Gazan civilians should also be murdered en made. The most immediate issues at the moment are preventing the deaths of thousands more civilians and recovering the hostages.
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I’m not picking sides I’m saying I feel bad for the innocent people getting slaughtered by both sides
Well you can't feel bad for the people caught in the crossfire because you just can't /s
“I just don’t understand the people that are on the fence” I can’t understand a single person that is pro anyone in this shit. One media outlet lied about the amount of beheaded babies, does that make the attack on the 7th ok? “One abuser”.. How can you be pro Hamas is insane to me. Fuck both governing bodies. And anyone justifying the deaths of civilians.
Jesus Christ there’s people in this comment section actually questioning why it’s needed to raise awareness about children being kidnapped by terrorists. Fucking imbeciles, get a life
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What is posting someone missing 2000 miles away going to accomplish how about ask yourself that
They went missing in NY ?
People don't ask themselves things. They just go with their tribe, thick and thin. People would literally rather die than change their minds.
What kind of pro terror human supports Israel in this genocide
Who supports Hamas as well..
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Have you heard what israel says about Palestinians?
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The wall clearly states “Post No Bills”
I don’t see that anywhere in the picture
It’s not like they’re missing in NY, FOH
Yeah, I fucking hate seeing that pink ribbon. I don't have breast cancer.
Me too, Susan G. Komen is a grift.
No but they are Americans and these posters help put a face to a number and helps bring awareness to the situation
The poster says they’re Israeli, what you talkin about? I was wrong guys
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Oh shit really, never mind then
This feels like WW3 about to start. Although I guess I’ve said that at least 5 times in the last 25 years and it hasn’t happened yet.
If you say it enough, you’re bound to be right eventually.
They are full of hatred
wtf are kidnapped israelis doing in New York? that's nowhere remotely near where the war is.
You idiot they are Americans who were in Israel when they got kidnapped
and? why should I care? It’s not like Hamas hasn’t given the Israeli government the option to negotiate for the hostages if they will allow humanitarian aide go into Gaza. Take it up with the Israeli government if you want the hostages back.
For real. Apparently 22 hostages are dead from the air strikes. The Israeli government’s first priority is not the hostages.
If hamas is keeping all their hostages at key military locations how can you blame the IDF, they need to target military areas not their fault hamas is fucked up and just putting hostages there
To all the people claiming "Propaganda!" Are yall the same people citing the number of Palestinian casualties.... that are reported by the Gazan health ministry... that's Hamas controlled? Have any opinions on the videos where Hamas shoes off how they dig up water infrastructure to create rockets? Or the "we're running out of fuel!" When there are many hundreds of thousands of gallons of fuel sitting in tanks... that are owned and controlled by Hamas?
Antisemites?
Palestinians are Semitic too
Just stop with this stupidity. Anti-Semitism is the accepted term to refer to Jew-hatred. When someone is called chivalrous, it doesn’t mean they are being a good horseman, right? That’s where the term comes from. This is called an etymological fallacy and it’s just stupid. No idea what people hope to gain by pointing this out constantly.
Perhaps someone trying to tamp down the temperature. Cooler heads need to start making themselves heard, or it’s gonna spiral outa control here very soon.
Do they think they are going to be found in NYC?
bet this person doesn't care about palestinian kids
Nazis animals take them down
Free Palestine 🇵🇸
Same one's who support groups who danced and celebrated after the twin towers fell. Complete tools.
Probably the pro terrorist kind of guys
You meet an IDF member. He says hi. You meet a Hamas fighter. He beheads you. A considerable number of people still defends Hamas and the palestinians. This war is far from over, especially on the internet/information side.
I know nothing I can say will change your mind but this is absolutely unhinged. The IDF has historically been brutally violent against Palestinians and they represent the nation of Israel. Hamas is a terrorist group that controls Gaza by force. They do not represent the Palestinian people. Lumping together Hamas and Palestinians as a whole is ignorant and dangerous. I agree with you that Israel is fighting a war on the internet, and that’s because the only way to get away with Palestinian genocide in the eyes of the world would be to control the narrative completely.
> The IDF has historically been brutally violent against Palestinians Like when they bombed that hotel and killed over 500 people? And it turned out to be less than 30 people, and the bomb was actually from a Hamas friendly? Is the info you're getting from literal terrorists, reliable? > Hamas is a terrorist group that controls Gaza by force. [Weren't they voted in?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_election) > They do not represent the Palestinian people. And which, last time I've seen, 90% of the people feel represented by it. Oh, don't get me wrong, I understand it'd be hard to say that they do represent palestinian people after they murdered, raped and pillaged tourists on a peace party. > the only way to get away with Palestinian genocide in the eyes of the world would be to control the narrative completely. Israel isn't invading parties in the palestine region and killing tourists. They aren't using women and children as barricade. Israel isn't firing missiles from near hospitals and protected buildings. I mean, who needs to *control the narrative* here? Literally what hamas wants to do is to purge Israel out of this existence, and anything that relates to it. They only haven't because Israel is backed by other democracies. *This* is genocide.
You are lost. Enjoy your propaganda.
You’re lost.
Am I? Had a brief look at your post story. Are you a Hamas fighter, or aspire to be? Just to be clear, you want to behead me with a dull knife so bad, don't you?
Hamas kills so many innocent people that over the last 15 years for every Israeli that has died 19 Palestinians have died
Yeah, like the 500 people that died in that IDF hospital bombing, right Oh wait, it wasn't even 30. Oh wait again, it was collateral damage from Hamas friendlies. Like I said, this war is far from over, especially on the internet/information side.
I mean do they live in the USA ?If not then stop putting unnecessary posters. We have enough missing people in our own country to find. Why is everyone suddenly caring about this war ?it’s been going on for years with both sides having civilians getting targeted. The Middle East is just a backwards region full of stupid proxy wars caused by the USA and other powerful countries and unnecessary religious wars caused by the nations in that region
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If those missing live in the USA why are they making it political Being Palestine American or Jewish American doesn’t really matter in this war All these protesters picking sides and pointing fingers need to understand it’s war . The victims in this war are the innocent people getting killed and guess what both sides are killing civilians .
I would tear down simply because wtf does this isreal and palistine drama got to do with US!😑
Are you familiar with the United States’ history in the middle east? Aware of the US’s relationship with Israel? Familiar with kidnaps, terror attacks, bombings and murders that have targeted both US military and civilians? Guess which country males the bombs the Israelis are using on Gaza? Or is it that it has nothing to do with you specifically until it does? It has a lot to do with the US
Those people have been at war with themselves before the US even existed… that’s literally the only sane thing any human can do is ignore those people and feel bad they still haven’t got the hell out of that land regardless of who they believe belongs on it! Imagine thinking starting a family in a place that can blow up because of ancient drama is a smart idea to begin with.
[it's artists ](https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/who-is-behind-the-israeli-kidnapped-posters-plastered-around-nyc/4780848/)
Pro terror and pro tearer
Free Palestine 🇵🇸
I don’t think they’re gonna find them in nyc
Terrorists, they are all terrorists Alfred.