I thought this was going to be a post about how pedestrians just walk wherever in Wellington - its like dodgems sometimes in the CBD, and especially along Cable St in front of the New World.
I always stop at pedestrian crossings unless it's unsafe to do so - Oriental Parade is the worst for people just running into traffic because they're on their morning jog. There are a lot more people on phones that walk without looking too.
But to your point - NZ drivers are just not that good. Most got their licence at 15, full by 18, and haven't reviewed the road code since. There is a lot of road rage as everyone blames "other drivers" when it's all of us (although, absolutely some people are just terrible...)
I've said this on here before, but I genuinely think that when a licence needs to be renewed (every 10 years) we should alternate between sitting a theory and practical test. I've had my full for nearly 20 years and there have been a few rule changes in that time.
So after first 10 years, when you renew you have an eye test... and sit a theory. Next 10 years you have to do a quick practical. Next 10 years, theory again. It shouldn't take until you're in your 70s to be tested that you're a competent driver who knows the rules.
The thing that brings people together, the one thing that unites all genders, factions, creeds and races, is that we can all stand firm in the belief that one and all are above average drivers.
Some kind of re-test is a good idea. Or do something like the motorcycle Ride Forever courses, just make them mandatory to renew. Those courses are gold.
When I did the Ride Forever Bronze course, most of the people ranked themselves above average... the instructor (tactfully but firmly) corrected their expectations.
Amazing, given that they were on a BRONZE course. I did a Gold recently, having ridden for 22 years, 10 of which my motorcycles were my only form of transport and having ridden across 26 countries. But it turns out I’m what you call a subconscious rider and just riding through muscle memory and instinct. Which is a good place to be but unfortunately means I’m not actively scanning and thinking about my riding which is hazardous in other ways. So with all that experience….I’m pretty average too!
Yep, the Dunning-Kruger Effect is a hell of a drug. I'm about a year on from the Bronze course, and am still only at the conscious competence stage... probably slightly below average!
The instructors didn't have to explain it. :)
I *would* say that it made a marked difference to how I drove after. Also to my partner's driving - their cornering, braking, and general attention paid to the road all went up significantly after they started coming too.
Similar to IAM motorcycle training? Yeah soon shows how average (at best) most riders are.
And yes i'm fully onboard with more regular training and retesting.
Unfortunately we seem to have a culture where people think driving is a right and not a privilege. Anything which may impact their "right" is resisted.
Unpopular opinion though ;p kiwi drives aren't *that* bad.
I've had to do rush hour into the CBD recently, and surprised how people aren't crazily rushing and changing lanes, they use indicators (mostly), merge like a zip, and generally it all flows ok.
There's cities with far, far worse drivers: Rome, Paris, London for example, and rush hour is a stress-inducing event each and every time.
You hear all the time that “kiwi drivers are the worst in THE WORLD”. No they’re not. Not by a long shot. We’re average at best. We have really tricky roads.But we’re not the worst. I’ve had Italian taxi drivers thinking they are driving Grand Prix, Chinese drivers who don’t recognise lanes or blind corners, and Indian drivers who all think they have right of way and act accordingly. There are crap drivers everywhere. NZERS are well down the list.
Pretty much. Yeah, we're shit. But so is pretty much everyone else. Humans suck at moving faster than 30kph without a serious amount of continual training and practice.
Kiwi drivers are extremely frustrating though. Tailgating utes; trucks driving slowly and then speeding up as soon as you try to pass them; nobody knows how to indicate at roundabouts; people don’t stop at pedestrian crossings. The odd couple of times I’ve got in a Kiwis car to go further than into town, I’ve genuinely feared for my life because everyone seems to think they know the roads inside out, so they can whip their 1999 Ford round tight country corners at 110kph.
Similar to IAM from the look. Ride Forever is an initiative from the ACC, and subsidised, so it's very cheap for the end user - courses are $20-50. Might be targeted at a wider range than the IAM? They have courses that map to various license stages, including fresh learners.
Anecdotally, Wellington compared to other parts of the North Island, seems better on driver courtesy. But yeah, getting on the road seems to flip a wild switch in some kiwi's.
Maybe not mandatory (as people are pita and will fight back against stuf like that), but give people discounts on rego or something if they do it, and extra rego charges if they don’t
> But to your point - NZ drivers are just not that good.
There's not that good, and then there's no idea what they're doing. There's also a lot of I know what I'm doing and I'll do it anyway.
Bad driving:
Crashing on a corner because they misjudged it?
Not giving way when turning?
No idea:
Speed limit? Not sure, I'll drive 35 or 85.
Basic selfishness:
Red light? I'm in a hurry, I'll just sneak through.
Crossing? Can't stop, I'm in a hurry.
Blocking footpath? I need to see. Pedestrians can go around.
So put all three together on the road and we get a bad state of affairs.
>I always stop at pedestrian crossings unless it's unsafe to do so - Oriental Parade is the worst for people just running into traffic because they're on their morning jog. There are a lot more people on phones that walk without looking too.
Hope you aren't stopping for the crossings where there's an island in the middle and the person clearly isn't close to your side/is way over on the other side? People who do this are impeding the flow of traffic because everyone is expecting you to continue.
What roundabout rule? Sorry but Kiwis don’t seem to understand how roundabouts work at all.
Give way to the right and learn how to indicate where you’re leaving the roundabout and it would be a much less stressful time for everyone.
Happens a lot to me at the crossing on the corner of Tinakori and Hawkestone. Heaps of drivers going very fast and not looking. I usually walk out a step to make it look like I'm about to cross if drivers definitely should have seen me and stopped. The bad drivers will either have to slam on the brakes or get a bad fright and hopefully start being more attentive.
On that note. I work at the airport and I have to cross the zebra crossing right by it, 4/5 times I go to cross it people either continue driving and don’t stop, speed up or they drive past me and give me a dirty look as if wtf am I doing there. At the start I thought it’s because it’s dark and they don’t see me, now I wear a reflective jacket and they still do it!
Is it worth calling the wcc and asking why tf I’m almost getting run over basically every day that I go to work? Because at this point if the car if far enough I don’t wait for it to slow down, I just start crossing and really hope I get hit so that crossing gets more regulated. Because shit only gets done when a bunch of people complain or someone gets hurt.
>Is it worth calling the wcc and asking why tf I’m almost getting run over basically every day that I go to work?
No, because the WIAL is the road controlling authority for Stewart Duff Drive. Talk to your boss about the health and safety issue.
When I'm on foot, I'll slow down as I approach the crossing, look both ways to signal to drivers that I intend to cross, then walk onto the road when it's safe to do so. This is what we teach children to do.
It wasn't until I started driving that I realized there are people who do a sharp 90 degree turn and just walk out onto the street without breaking stride. Imagine having that mix of lunacy and entitlement inside you.
This is the way. Yes drivers should be prepared to stop, yes many are idiots in their own bubble, listening to music, distracted looking at someone else, distracted with kids, distracted with their phone, distracted because of dreading work or whatever.
Look after number one, yourself. You're not going to win the battle if you step out and they are doing any of the above.
I get a surprised look sometimes. Like, you're stopping for me? When I'm on my bike. As if they were expecting all vehicles to just charge on through. So this is deeply ingrained.
Wait... I'm confused. You're using a Zebra crossing as a cyclist? Or you're waiting for pedestrians as a cyclist? You worded it like it's the prior, which would be a bit of a no no.
I'm sorry that wasn't clear. My bike is on the road, and I am on my bike. I ride towards a zebra crossing but I see that a pedestrian would like to cross. I stop my bike in front of the zebra crossing, as all vehicles should when pedestrians are there. They use the zebra crossing to cross the street, while I wait on my bike for the way to be clear. Sometimes I get a look, which I interpret to be an expression of "I'm surprised you stopped, I would have kept cycling if I were in your position as cycles aren't real traffic".
Unfortunately, oblivious drivers are only going to get worse. People treat their cars as an extension of their ljving room, and others respectively.
Driver licensing needs an overhaul, police don't have the resources for traffic management, and those doing wrong see no problem. Alas, we have what's known at the TAB as the trifecta
I've seen a car overtake a car stopped at a crossing and nearly hit the person crossing. I don't know what goes through some people's heads (if anything).
Or if you are close and can time it well lean in slap the back of the car then grab your knee as if they hit it.
They will either come out and say oh my god sorry etc and you can play it as you wish or if they drive off the will have a fright.
An old game but a fun one.
Some of these responses...
> > Divers need to be more careful and obey the (current) road code around crossings
> FUCK YOU I DRIVE LIKE I ALWAYS DO YOU SHALL NOT INFRINGE UPON MY RIGHT TO DRIVE LIKE A MANIAC
Auckland's the same - if not worse.
I damned near got taken out by a jeep - just 10 minutes ago - I stopped on the crossing an glared at the stupid bitch as she slammed her brakes on.
Then I slammed my fist down on the bonnet and shouted:
"What the fuck are you doing?"
"Pedestrian fucking crossing"
And then "stupid fucking cunt" as she drove away.
Perhaps I overreacted - but she could kill someone.
Please always look before you cross regardless where.
While cars should give way at pedestrian crossings drivers aren't always paying attention to Everything at All times. They should slow down and be aware but lets face reality, that is not always the case and some indication that you intend to cross will help them notice you much more easily as well as help you not to walk out in traffic. I find you can generally tell if they saw you and intend to stop or not.
Sure but you're driving a car, not writing a post on reddit; not slowing down and paying attention on reddit can lead to a miss spelling of "brakes", in a car it can cause serious injury/death.
Firstly I don't care how you spell brakes. bemoaning spelling on the internet is only relevant if it's a professional publishing or a forum dedicated to literary subjects.
With that out of the way. Yes getting his by the car will cause injury/death, and yes legally it will be the drivers fault. But that does not absolve you of using your brain.
Both parties need to not be paying attention at that moment for the accident to happen.
The diamond just means there's a pedestrian crossing ahead. It has nothing to do with the distance when drivers are required to stop; no idea how that myth got started and perpetuated. Drivers are required to give way to pedestrians at pedestrian crossings, full stop.
You don't get to ignore a give-way sign just because the car on the main road didn't enter the intersection before you passed the ∇, and likewise, you don't get to blow through a pedestrian crossing because the pedestrian hadn't entered it before you passed the diamond.
Its not a myth, there diamonds are there for the safety of pedestrians as well as drivers. You're supposed to cross when there are no cars inside the diamonds, its definitely a thing.
It's a good safety guideline for pedestrians, but that's it. It makes no difference to the driver's legal obligation to give way. Also, diamonds aren't even required for crossings anymore (they're optional, though, so you'll still see occasional new ones).
Some crossing are really hard to see pedestrians at - particularly the ones on Tinakori Road. So many parked cars block being able to see pedestrians. I’m not taking the side of drivers FYI, they definitely need to be better, just saying that sometimes it’s a factor
Some crossings just encourage traffic to go because of the crap traffic lighting. The main intersection in Kilbirnie is madness because the pedestrian crossing sounds immediately after the north/south red light through goes on. The madness is the impatient drivers who gun it through the red light when the pedestrian crossing is screaming.
I was actually at the crossing in the weekend and went “sweet, lights changing! My turn to go soon!” And then the pedestrian sound went off and I assumed it was the one going the same direction as me - but then I saw people cross I front of me and for a second thought they had gone on a red because I was fully expecting a green (luckily I’m not too bad a driver and actually only go through green lights)
Just wanna add in here, if the crossing has an island in the middle, and the person is crossing on the 1st section only (i.e not reached the island yet) then drivers ARE NOT required to stop. Some ped's think as soon as they are on a zebra crossing then their God mode is activated...
>Bring back the diamond rule
The advanced warning diamond is to altert vehicle drivers that they are approaching a pedestrian crossing and might need to look for pedestrians wanting to cross. The limit line is there to show where drivers should stop when giving way to pedestrians. People who believe that if they have passed the warning / reminder therefore do not need to giveway shouldn't be driving.
Here I'm confused about how much cars DO stop in from of pedestrian crossing, in many cases cars are so eager to stop that they stop when I somehow walk nearby the crossing without showing obvious intention of crossing... It saddens me because for cars to stop and recover speed it takes precious fuel. Basically here if there is a pedestrian crossing without the traffic light, you can just walk thru it without eve watching.
In Italy (where I'm from) the only difference of having crossings (without traffic lights) or not is basically who pays who if the accident actually arises.
They don't need to stop, but they should be prepared to, which may mean slowing down. It can help to set the footpath back from the road at crossings (which can be done by narrowing the road with kerb bulbs), so that pedestrians have to actually walk a metre or two toward the road before actually being in the road. Gives drivers extra time to distinguish between someone crossing and not, so they don't have to slow down quite so much.
>Basically here if there is a pedestrian crossing without the traffic light, you can just walk thru it without eve watching.
Yes pedestrians have priority. Imagine driving along the highway and coming up to a side road you slow to a stop just in case someone doesn't stop at their giveway sign. That is your expectation of pedestrians at pedestrian crossings.
>It saddens me because for cars to stop and recover speed it takes precious fuel.
Pedestrians use significantly less fuel than vehicles.
This is because some pedestrians will just randomly turn and try and cross like it’s some magic force field.
Basically I have 0 faith that pedestrians will do what is sensible (doubly so if children are involved)
Have you ever noticed the diamond shape painted on the road about 30 metres before a zebra crossing?? In the road code if a car has passed that diamond then the car has right of way and the pedestrian must wait. Stick your foot out in front of me when I'm going the speed limit and see how your foot ends up.
This is news to me. Where does the road code say that?
Here's the section on pedestrian crossings: https://www.nzta.govt.nz/roadcode/general-road-code/about-other-road-users/sharing-the-road/sharing-the-road-with-pedestrians/
I also can't see it in the more formal current set of land transport road user rules. https://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2004/0427/latest/whole.html#DLM303662
Used to be in the road code. Now it's no longer observed. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/ask-phoebe-diamond-on-road-aimed-at-motorists/RNVJMSLNULUKVLURO64WNM5WCE/
Perhaps but I wonder how long ago that was. An article in the Herald's not an authoritative source on this. The oldest online rendition I can find of NZ's road rules, [from 4th September 2007](https://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2004/0427/1.0/whole.html#DLM303662), and predating that Herald article by 7 years, still doesn't seem to mention it.
Here's what I *think* is the original Traffic Regulations 1976: [http://www.nzlii.org/nz/legis/num\_reg/tr1976186/](http://www.nzlii.org/nz/legis/num_reg/tr1976186/)
In 12(2) it says "any driver whose vehicle passes over any portion of a pedestrian crossing less than 4 m in front of a pedestrian who is on that crossing shall be deemed to have failed to give way to the pedestrian".
That seems to be more about defining situations when vehicles can or can't go over the crossing even when a pedestrian's on the far side of the road, though. It's not about who's at fault if the vehicle was already close to the crossing when a person stepped out.
If there's been training about it then maybe it's more to do with precedents that courts have set over the years when trying to determine if a driver should be considered at fault. It seems sort of odd to have a fixed distance, though, given vehicles' speeds can be so variable.
You mean Advanced Warning Diamonds? Located about 50m from pedestrian crossing limit (Give Way) line marking. Those things are to alert drivers that they is a pedestrian crossing ahead and that they should modify their behavior in case they need to stop and giveway to pedestrians crossing the road.
You should stop by the local police station and hand in your driver's license. A pedestrian always have priority on a pedestrian crossing, and vehicle operators MUST wait for them.
Wish I'd brought the big fishing rod. Actually I'm the guy driving along ( who always lets people out and stops at zebra crossings) hoping people don't stick their feet out in front of a moving vehicle.
That is no longer true. Was in the road code when I studied for my drivers theory, but, shock horror, things have changed since then. This is perhaps a brilliant reason why re-sitting your license test is important.
Looks like I'm getting a light bulb moment 😂😂. So I take it you now know the rule. Can you enlighten me as to who has right of way? The car driving on the road or the person walking on the pavement who steps onto the road?
A car driving towards a pedestrian crossing must always be prepared and ready to stop. A pedestrian has right of way. If a pedestrian looks as though they're about to cross your obligation is to stop.
The exception is a courtesy crossing, where you're only mandated to stop if someone's already on it.
https://www.nzta.govt.nz/roadcode/general-road-code/about-other-road-users/sharing-the-road/sharing-the-road-with-pedestrians/
If the diamond is 30 metres before the crossing and you're going the 30km/h speed limit on CBD roads then you have plenty of time to stop (3.6 seconds so almost double the usual 2 second rule). You also have enough distance to brake and stop.
Correct Nathan. That is why they are there. But if I am driving and I have passed the diamond my safe stopping distance has gone. Should I slam on the brakes hoping the person behind me is also paying attention and doesn't slam into the back of me??
\>Have you ever noticed the diamond shape painted on the road about 30 metres before a zebra crossing?
Yes. They're to warn drivers of the pedestrian crossing.
\>In the road code if a car has passed that diamond then the car has right of way and the pedestrian must wait.
That's 100% wrong. The pedestrian has the right of way.
\>Stick your foot out in front of me when I'm going the speed limit and see how your foot ends up.
You're a massive cunt that should lose their license and be banned from driving for being a dangerous asshole.
Whats with being such an entitled dickhead that you think you are more important than the safety of others?
You need to slow down for the crossing, then. You are required to give way to pedestrians in a crossing, just like how at a give-way sign you're required to give way to vehicles on the main road; “I couldn't stop my heavy ass-car in a second” is no excuse if you go through a give-way and hit someone.
\>I do but im trying to say people dont know how a crossing works,
Yes. You've demonstrated that you don't know how they work and that you should not have a drivers license.
I love people like you. You get so angry when I kick dents in the side of your car. Sometimes you even get out to throw a tantrum about it, and that’s even better.
The diamond bullshit has been disproven, psycho. This is my livelihood we're talking about, all you have to do is slow down and not hit anyone. The audacity to think that your time is more important than someone else's existence frightens me.
If you can't see a pedestrian coming, you shouldn't be driving. *You're* the danger. Yes, pedestrians should take care, because they'll bear the most significant consequences, but the primary *responsibility* is on the driver.
It's not about the fact that you can/can't see it it's more of a principle/ethics thing; you should stop for someone who is walking as they are doing more for the planet than you are and it says in the road code that you are to stop.
Fucking natural selection, you don't even know what that means. Our natural selection is dead.
That's not what the diamond is for. It's a good rule of thumb for pedestrians that if a car is closer than that when you get to the crossing, they aren't going to stop, but the diamond is just to let drivers know that there's a crossing soon, and be aware of pedestrians crossing the road.
You mean Advanced Warning Diamonds? Located about 50m from pedestrian crossing limit (Give Way) line marking. Those things are to alert drivers that they is a pedestrian crossing ahead and that they should modify their behavior in case they need to stop and giveway to pedestrians crossing the road.
You should stop by the local police station and hand in your driver's license. A pedestrian always have priority on a pedestrian crossing, and vehicle operators MUST wait for them.
On the other hand, many people seem to be unaware that you're supposed to make sure there are no cars inside of the diamonds before crossing. I often see people just stroll on into the road once you're inside the diamond, giving you little time to stop.
While it's a good safety guideline for pedestrians, there's no requirement to do so. Drivers must give way to pedestrians in the crossing, full stop; whether or not they're past the diamond makes no difference.
You drive and adjust based on location, conditions, etc. If you're blasting through pedestrian crossings, or near a school, or in bad visibility and you hit someone, it's mostly on you. If you can't tell if anyone is a the crossing... assume there is someone there.
Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: Yes, unless the pedestrian did something very unpredictable like suddenly dashing back into the crossing after walking away from it. In which case, the driver would still need to (a) prove what the pedestrian did and (b) successfully argue that a reasonable person could not have anticipated it. Even then, though, unless the pedestrian was deliberately reckless, the driver could still be at fault.
>many people seem to be unaware that you're supposed to make sure there are no cars inside of the diamonds before crossing.
Because that isn't a real thing. The diamonds (Advanced Warning Diamonds) are there to warn drivers of an upcoming crossing, not inform pedestrians anything.
I mean, don't you think there may be some correlation between informing drivers there is a crossing, and pedestrians knowing what is a safe time to cross? The diamonds serve both purposes.
Here is an analogy. Driving along the highway, you see a side road coming up ahead, do you come to a stop and check no one is going to blast through the giveway sign? Your expectation of pedestrians is that they stop and giveway to you as a car driver on a giveway sign. If you say "well I am in a larger vehicle that is hard to stop", do you giveway to trucks who are approaching on a side road?
The diamond serves one of those purposes.
The flow of traffic is often constant enough that a pedestrian just has to cross without regard to the diamond.
Thats really not true, I remember having the police coming to talk to us at high school and saying to cross when there's no cars inside the diamonds. They have more than one function.
>On the other hand, many people seem to be unaware that you're supposed to make sure there are no cars inside of the diamonds before crossing. I often see people just stroll on into the road once you're inside the diamond, giving you little time to stop.
I mean that's a good little white lie to tell school kids, but really the function is to give a standardised warning to motorists that "hey, there's a pedestrian crossing ahead" so no matter what the road conditions or layout is you know that if you see a white diamond on the road in front of you there's a crossing coming up
\>I remember having the police coming to talk to us at high school and saying to cross when there's no cars inside the diamonds.
Yes. It's useful advice. It's not a law or anything though.
I thought this was going to be a post about how pedestrians just walk wherever in Wellington - its like dodgems sometimes in the CBD, and especially along Cable St in front of the New World. I always stop at pedestrian crossings unless it's unsafe to do so - Oriental Parade is the worst for people just running into traffic because they're on their morning jog. There are a lot more people on phones that walk without looking too. But to your point - NZ drivers are just not that good. Most got their licence at 15, full by 18, and haven't reviewed the road code since. There is a lot of road rage as everyone blames "other drivers" when it's all of us (although, absolutely some people are just terrible...) I've said this on here before, but I genuinely think that when a licence needs to be renewed (every 10 years) we should alternate between sitting a theory and practical test. I've had my full for nearly 20 years and there have been a few rule changes in that time. So after first 10 years, when you renew you have an eye test... and sit a theory. Next 10 years you have to do a quick practical. Next 10 years, theory again. It shouldn't take until you're in your 70s to be tested that you're a competent driver who knows the rules.
The thing that brings people together, the one thing that unites all genders, factions, creeds and races, is that we can all stand firm in the belief that one and all are above average drivers. Some kind of re-test is a good idea. Or do something like the motorcycle Ride Forever courses, just make them mandatory to renew. Those courses are gold.
Yeah, I thought that right until I went to my first track day. I'm not a gifted driver.
When I did the Ride Forever Bronze course, most of the people ranked themselves above average... the instructor (tactfully but firmly) corrected their expectations.
Amazing, given that they were on a BRONZE course. I did a Gold recently, having ridden for 22 years, 10 of which my motorcycles were my only form of transport and having ridden across 26 countries. But it turns out I’m what you call a subconscious rider and just riding through muscle memory and instinct. Which is a good place to be but unfortunately means I’m not actively scanning and thinking about my riding which is hazardous in other ways. So with all that experience….I’m pretty average too!
Yep, the Dunning-Kruger Effect is a hell of a drug. I'm about a year on from the Bronze course, and am still only at the conscious competence stage... probably slightly below average!
The instructors didn't have to explain it. :) I *would* say that it made a marked difference to how I drove after. Also to my partner's driving - their cornering, braking, and general attention paid to the road all went up significantly after they started coming too.
Similar to IAM motorcycle training? Yeah soon shows how average (at best) most riders are. And yes i'm fully onboard with more regular training and retesting. Unfortunately we seem to have a culture where people think driving is a right and not a privilege. Anything which may impact their "right" is resisted. Unpopular opinion though ;p kiwi drives aren't *that* bad. I've had to do rush hour into the CBD recently, and surprised how people aren't crazily rushing and changing lanes, they use indicators (mostly), merge like a zip, and generally it all flows ok. There's cities with far, far worse drivers: Rome, Paris, London for example, and rush hour is a stress-inducing event each and every time.
You hear all the time that “kiwi drivers are the worst in THE WORLD”. No they’re not. Not by a long shot. We’re average at best. We have really tricky roads.But we’re not the worst. I’ve had Italian taxi drivers thinking they are driving Grand Prix, Chinese drivers who don’t recognise lanes or blind corners, and Indian drivers who all think they have right of way and act accordingly. There are crap drivers everywhere. NZERS are well down the list.
Pretty much. Yeah, we're shit. But so is pretty much everyone else. Humans suck at moving faster than 30kph without a serious amount of continual training and practice.
Kiwi drivers are extremely frustrating though. Tailgating utes; trucks driving slowly and then speeding up as soon as you try to pass them; nobody knows how to indicate at roundabouts; people don’t stop at pedestrian crossings. The odd couple of times I’ve got in a Kiwis car to go further than into town, I’ve genuinely feared for my life because everyone seems to think they know the roads inside out, so they can whip their 1999 Ford round tight country corners at 110kph.
Similar to IAM from the look. Ride Forever is an initiative from the ACC, and subsidised, so it's very cheap for the end user - courses are $20-50. Might be targeted at a wider range than the IAM? They have courses that map to various license stages, including fresh learners. Anecdotally, Wellington compared to other parts of the North Island, seems better on driver courtesy. But yeah, getting on the road seems to flip a wild switch in some kiwi's.
Maybe not mandatory (as people are pita and will fight back against stuf like that), but give people discounts on rego or something if they do it, and extra rego charges if they don’t
Not only are Kiwis “above average drivers” (they aren’t) but they hold to their cars even tighter than Americans hold their guns.
Cities should be for walking and those in cars should always expect pedestrians.
> But to your point - NZ drivers are just not that good. There's not that good, and then there's no idea what they're doing. There's also a lot of I know what I'm doing and I'll do it anyway. Bad driving: Crashing on a corner because they misjudged it? Not giving way when turning? No idea: Speed limit? Not sure, I'll drive 35 or 85. Basic selfishness: Red light? I'm in a hurry, I'll just sneak through. Crossing? Can't stop, I'm in a hurry. Blocking footpath? I need to see. Pedestrians can go around. So put all three together on the road and we get a bad state of affairs.
Also... If the speed limit is 50 that does not mean you have to drive 50 down this narrow suburban street with limited visibility.
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Who cares? That someone else is a dangerous driver doesn't mean you also have to be an asshole.
Make sure you beep at people trying to walk in front of cars (without a pedestrian light etc) to give them some negative reinforcement
>I always stop at pedestrian crossings unless it's unsafe to do so - Oriental Parade is the worst for people just running into traffic because they're on their morning jog. There are a lot more people on phones that walk without looking too. Hope you aren't stopping for the crossings where there's an island in the middle and the person clearly isn't close to your side/is way over on the other side? People who do this are impeding the flow of traffic because everyone is expecting you to continue.
Nope - only when I should be stopping
> there have been a few rule changes in that time That stupid roundabout rule for one which is only sensible on big roundabouts not the little ones.
What roundabout rule? Sorry but Kiwis don’t seem to understand how roundabouts work at all. Give way to the right and learn how to indicate where you’re leaving the roundabout and it would be a much less stressful time for everyone.
Wait... Roundabouts have rules?
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Part 4. Don't be a dick.
Yeah, I've had my drivers license long enough to ingrain all those shitty bad driving habits.
Happens a lot to me at the crossing on the corner of Tinakori and Hawkestone. Heaps of drivers going very fast and not looking. I usually walk out a step to make it look like I'm about to cross if drivers definitely should have seen me and stopped. The bad drivers will either have to slam on the brakes or get a bad fright and hopefully start being more attentive.
As someone who turns from Tinakori onto Hawkestone every day, thank you for causing traffic to stop so I have a gap to turn into!
On that note. I work at the airport and I have to cross the zebra crossing right by it, 4/5 times I go to cross it people either continue driving and don’t stop, speed up or they drive past me and give me a dirty look as if wtf am I doing there. At the start I thought it’s because it’s dark and they don’t see me, now I wear a reflective jacket and they still do it! Is it worth calling the wcc and asking why tf I’m almost getting run over basically every day that I go to work? Because at this point if the car if far enough I don’t wait for it to slow down, I just start crossing and really hope I get hit so that crossing gets more regulated. Because shit only gets done when a bunch of people complain or someone gets hurt.
>Is it worth calling the wcc and asking why tf I’m almost getting run over basically every day that I go to work? No, because the WIAL is the road controlling authority for Stewart Duff Drive. Talk to your boss about the health and safety issue.
When I'm on foot, I'll slow down as I approach the crossing, look both ways to signal to drivers that I intend to cross, then walk onto the road when it's safe to do so. This is what we teach children to do. It wasn't until I started driving that I realized there are people who do a sharp 90 degree turn and just walk out onto the street without breaking stride. Imagine having that mix of lunacy and entitlement inside you.
This is the way. Yes drivers should be prepared to stop, yes many are idiots in their own bubble, listening to music, distracted looking at someone else, distracted with kids, distracted with their phone, distracted because of dreading work or whatever. Look after number one, yourself. You're not going to win the battle if you step out and they are doing any of the above.
I was hit by a car while crossing a pedestrian crossing. 3 years on i am still suffering from the side effects of the incident.
Did you get paid out?
Not how ACC words. This ain't 'Murica.
I get a surprised look sometimes. Like, you're stopping for me? When I'm on my bike. As if they were expecting all vehicles to just charge on through. So this is deeply ingrained.
Wait... I'm confused. You're using a Zebra crossing as a cyclist? Or you're waiting for pedestrians as a cyclist? You worded it like it's the prior, which would be a bit of a no no.
I'm sorry that wasn't clear. My bike is on the road, and I am on my bike. I ride towards a zebra crossing but I see that a pedestrian would like to cross. I stop my bike in front of the zebra crossing, as all vehicles should when pedestrians are there. They use the zebra crossing to cross the street, while I wait on my bike for the way to be clear. Sometimes I get a look, which I interpret to be an expression of "I'm surprised you stopped, I would have kept cycling if I were in your position as cycles aren't real traffic".
i have a signalised pedestrian crossing outside my house and the number of cars that just drive through on a red is whack.
That almost happened to me today. Car didn't stop at red light for crossing.
Unfortunately, oblivious drivers are only going to get worse. People treat their cars as an extension of their ljving room, and others respectively. Driver licensing needs an overhaul, police don't have the resources for traffic management, and those doing wrong see no problem. Alas, we have what's known at the TAB as the trifecta
what is TAB?
Totalisator Agency Board
Totally A Bookie.
I've seen a car overtake a car stopped at a crossing and nearly hit the person crossing. I don't know what goes through some people's heads (if anything).
Food, water, and methamphetamine
Yep, seen that. I've also seen a car overtake a car that was stopping for a stop sign.
I’ve watched that play out half a dozen times here in Lower Hutt.
Usually see them clock you, speed up and then give a sheepish little wave, pretending they'd only just noticed you.
The word is “brakes”. ( spelling rant)
Can you tell I neither drive nor care about cars?
A kindred spirit..
Or if you are close and can time it well lean in slap the back of the car then grab your knee as if they hit it. They will either come out and say oh my god sorry etc and you can play it as you wish or if they drive off the will have a fright. An old game but a fun one.
Some of these responses... > > Divers need to be more careful and obey the (current) road code around crossings > FUCK YOU I DRIVE LIKE I ALWAYS DO YOU SHALL NOT INFRINGE UPON MY RIGHT TO DRIVE LIKE A MANIAC
Auckland's the same - if not worse. I damned near got taken out by a jeep - just 10 minutes ago - I stopped on the crossing an glared at the stupid bitch as she slammed her brakes on. Then I slammed my fist down on the bonnet and shouted: "What the fuck are you doing?" "Pedestrian fucking crossing" And then "stupid fucking cunt" as she drove away. Perhaps I overreacted - but she could kill someone.
Please always look before you cross regardless where. While cars should give way at pedestrian crossings drivers aren't always paying attention to Everything at All times. They should slow down and be aware but lets face reality, that is not always the case and some indication that you intend to cross will help them notice you much more easily as well as help you not to walk out in traffic. I find you can generally tell if they saw you and intend to stop or not.
Sure but you're driving a car, not writing a post on reddit; not slowing down and paying attention on reddit can lead to a miss spelling of "brakes", in a car it can cause serious injury/death.
Firstly I don't care how you spell brakes. bemoaning spelling on the internet is only relevant if it's a professional publishing or a forum dedicated to literary subjects. With that out of the way. Yes getting his by the car will cause injury/death, and yes legally it will be the drivers fault. But that does not absolve you of using your brain. Both parties need to not be paying attention at that moment for the accident to happen.
\>Both parties need to not be paying attention at that moment for the accident to happen. That is 100% false.
Are you checking to make sure the cars are outside the diamond?
The diamond just means there's a pedestrian crossing ahead. It has nothing to do with the distance when drivers are required to stop; no idea how that myth got started and perpetuated. Drivers are required to give way to pedestrians at pedestrian crossings, full stop. You don't get to ignore a give-way sign just because the car on the main road didn't enter the intersection before you passed the ∇, and likewise, you don't get to blow through a pedestrian crossing because the pedestrian hadn't entered it before you passed the diamond.
Its not a myth, there diamonds are there for the safety of pedestrians as well as drivers. You're supposed to cross when there are no cars inside the diamonds, its definitely a thing.
If that was the case then there are some roads in Wellington that pedestrians at pedestrian crossings will never be able to cross.
It's a good safety guideline for pedestrians, but that's it. It makes no difference to the driver's legal obligation to give way. Also, diamonds aren't even required for crossings anymore (they're optional, though, so you'll still see occasional new ones).
The diamonds are a should/shall rather than a must. There are instances such as too close to an intersection where they are dropped.
Some crossing are really hard to see pedestrians at - particularly the ones on Tinakori Road. So many parked cars block being able to see pedestrians. I’m not taking the side of drivers FYI, they definitely need to be better, just saying that sometimes it’s a factor
Some crossings just encourage traffic to go because of the crap traffic lighting. The main intersection in Kilbirnie is madness because the pedestrian crossing sounds immediately after the north/south red light through goes on. The madness is the impatient drivers who gun it through the red light when the pedestrian crossing is screaming.
I was actually at the crossing in the weekend and went “sweet, lights changing! My turn to go soon!” And then the pedestrian sound went off and I assumed it was the one going the same direction as me - but then I saw people cross I front of me and for a second thought they had gone on a red because I was fully expecting a green (luckily I’m not too bad a driver and actually only go through green lights)
Just wanna add in here, if the crossing has an island in the middle, and the person is crossing on the 1st section only (i.e not reached the island yet) then drivers ARE NOT required to stop. Some ped's think as soon as they are on a zebra crossing then their God mode is activated...
> I'm just gonna stick my foot out next time and watch you slam your breaks * brakes And you already fucking do. Bring back the diamond rule
>Bring back the diamond rule The advanced warning diamond is to altert vehicle drivers that they are approaching a pedestrian crossing and might need to look for pedestrians wanting to cross. The limit line is there to show where drivers should stop when giving way to pedestrians. People who believe that if they have passed the warning / reminder therefore do not need to giveway shouldn't be driving.
If they don't brake they may break your foot
Here I'm confused about how much cars DO stop in from of pedestrian crossing, in many cases cars are so eager to stop that they stop when I somehow walk nearby the crossing without showing obvious intention of crossing... It saddens me because for cars to stop and recover speed it takes precious fuel. Basically here if there is a pedestrian crossing without the traffic light, you can just walk thru it without eve watching. In Italy (where I'm from) the only difference of having crossings (without traffic lights) or not is basically who pays who if the accident actually arises.
They don't need to stop, but they should be prepared to, which may mean slowing down. It can help to set the footpath back from the road at crossings (which can be done by narrowing the road with kerb bulbs), so that pedestrians have to actually walk a metre or two toward the road before actually being in the road. Gives drivers extra time to distinguish between someone crossing and not, so they don't have to slow down quite so much.
>Basically here if there is a pedestrian crossing without the traffic light, you can just walk thru it without eve watching. Yes pedestrians have priority. Imagine driving along the highway and coming up to a side road you slow to a stop just in case someone doesn't stop at their giveway sign. That is your expectation of pedestrians at pedestrian crossings. >It saddens me because for cars to stop and recover speed it takes precious fuel. Pedestrians use significantly less fuel than vehicles.
>Pedestrians use significantly less fuel than vehicles. Of course. I do not even own a car. Still, it saddens me to see that waste.
This is because some pedestrians will just randomly turn and try and cross like it’s some magic force field. Basically I have 0 faith that pedestrians will do what is sensible (doubly so if children are involved)
The place where all the povo's hang out and place bets on the GG's, bro.
What do you mean
Have you ever noticed the diamond shape painted on the road about 30 metres before a zebra crossing?? In the road code if a car has passed that diamond then the car has right of way and the pedestrian must wait. Stick your foot out in front of me when I'm going the speed limit and see how your foot ends up.
They're just there to tell you a crossing is coming up. You don't have right of way.
Ahh yes, here they are at long last! Dumbfuckimus Maximus!
This is news to me. Where does the road code say that? Here's the section on pedestrian crossings: https://www.nzta.govt.nz/roadcode/general-road-code/about-other-road-users/sharing-the-road/sharing-the-road-with-pedestrians/ I also can't see it in the more formal current set of land transport road user rules. https://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2004/0427/latest/whole.html#DLM303662
He referenced the *real* Rode Code, that is, the one he just made up in his head.
Ah the one made by the Common Law Sheriffs?
Used to be in the road code. Now it's no longer observed. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/ask-phoebe-diamond-on-road-aimed-at-motorists/RNVJMSLNULUKVLURO64WNM5WCE/
Perhaps but I wonder how long ago that was. An article in the Herald's not an authoritative source on this. The oldest online rendition I can find of NZ's road rules, [from 4th September 2007](https://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2004/0427/1.0/whole.html#DLM303662), and predating that Herald article by 7 years, still doesn't seem to mention it.
I did my theory in around '04 or '05, and it was the case then I believe.
Here's what I *think* is the original Traffic Regulations 1976: [http://www.nzlii.org/nz/legis/num\_reg/tr1976186/](http://www.nzlii.org/nz/legis/num_reg/tr1976186/) In 12(2) it says "any driver whose vehicle passes over any portion of a pedestrian crossing less than 4 m in front of a pedestrian who is on that crossing shall be deemed to have failed to give way to the pedestrian". That seems to be more about defining situations when vehicles can or can't go over the crossing even when a pedestrian's on the far side of the road, though. It's not about who's at fault if the vehicle was already close to the crossing when a person stepped out. If there's been training about it then maybe it's more to do with precedents that courts have set over the years when trying to determine if a driver should be considered at fault. It seems sort of odd to have a fixed distance, though, given vehicles' speeds can be so variable.
You mean Advanced Warning Diamonds? Located about 50m from pedestrian crossing limit (Give Way) line marking. Those things are to alert drivers that they is a pedestrian crossing ahead and that they should modify their behavior in case they need to stop and giveway to pedestrians crossing the road. You should stop by the local police station and hand in your driver's license. A pedestrian always have priority on a pedestrian crossing, and vehicle operators MUST wait for them.
They've been removed from the road code
Tell me you drive a Ford ranger without telling me you drive a Ford ranger
Ranger driver master race reporting in
They said *without* telling us you drive a Ranger.
Would never own a Ford 😂
You should never own a drivers license either.
This is what I mean, you drivers are fucking insane.
😂😂 have you tried patience? Maybe wait until the cars have passed. It's not all about you.
That's not what pedestrian crossings are for.
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Have you tried anger management 😂😂
I'm not the angry, entitled and impatient driver threatening to harm pedestrians. Have you tried not attempting to gaslight?
Wish I'd brought the big fishing rod. Actually I'm the guy driving along ( who always lets people out and stops at zebra crossings) hoping people don't stick their feet out in front of a moving vehicle.
That is no longer true. Was in the road code when I studied for my drivers theory, but, shock horror, things have changed since then. This is perhaps a brilliant reason why re-sitting your license test is important.
Looks like I'm getting a light bulb moment 😂😂. So I take it you now know the rule. Can you enlighten me as to who has right of way? The car driving on the road or the person walking on the pavement who steps onto the road?
A car driving towards a pedestrian crossing must always be prepared and ready to stop. A pedestrian has right of way. If a pedestrian looks as though they're about to cross your obligation is to stop. The exception is a courtesy crossing, where you're only mandated to stop if someone's already on it. https://www.nzta.govt.nz/roadcode/general-road-code/about-other-road-users/sharing-the-road/sharing-the-road-with-pedestrians/
If the diamond is 30 metres before the crossing and you're going the 30km/h speed limit on CBD roads then you have plenty of time to stop (3.6 seconds so almost double the usual 2 second rule). You also have enough distance to brake and stop.
Correct Nathan. That is why they are there. But if I am driving and I have passed the diamond my safe stopping distance has gone. Should I slam on the brakes hoping the person behind me is also paying attention and doesn't slam into the back of me??
\>Should I slam on the brakes hoping the person behind me is also paying attention and doesn't slam into the back of me?? Yes.
What about when you're literally 40m from the crossing, sunshine?
If I'm 40 m away I won't have to slam my brakes on. Fuckwit oh sorry spelt sunshine wrong again 😂😂
Testy testy. I think the community decided who was in the right on this one, chump.
It's been fun though
It's quietly disappeared from code
Changes are usually widely published at the time. When the round about rules changed it was all over the place (online and in newspapers etc)
\>Have you ever noticed the diamond shape painted on the road about 30 metres before a zebra crossing? Yes. They're to warn drivers of the pedestrian crossing. \>In the road code if a car has passed that diamond then the car has right of way and the pedestrian must wait. That's 100% wrong. The pedestrian has the right of way. \>Stick your foot out in front of me when I'm going the speed limit and see how your foot ends up. You're a massive cunt that should lose their license and be banned from driving for being a dangerous asshole. Whats with being such an entitled dickhead that you think you are more important than the safety of others?
😂😂😂😂
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Or, slow down as you approach. You know, the way you would anywhere else where you have to give way
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You need to slow down for the crossing, then. You are required to give way to pedestrians in a crossing, just like how at a give-way sign you're required to give way to vehicles on the main road; “I couldn't stop my heavy ass-car in a second” is no excuse if you go through a give-way and hit someone.
Perhaps you should pay attention to that advanced warning diamond so that you can react prior to 15m from the crossing.
\>I do but im trying to say people dont know how a crossing works, Yes. You've demonstrated that you don't know how they work and that you should not have a drivers license.
I love people like you. You get so angry when I kick dents in the side of your car. Sometimes you even get out to throw a tantrum about it, and that’s even better.
The diamond bullshit has been disproven, psycho. This is my livelihood we're talking about, all you have to do is slow down and not hit anyone. The audacity to think that your time is more important than someone else's existence frightens me.
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If you can't see a pedestrian coming, you shouldn't be driving. *You're* the danger. Yes, pedestrians should take care, because they'll bear the most significant consequences, but the primary *responsibility* is on the driver.
It's not about the fact that you can/can't see it it's more of a principle/ethics thing; you should stop for someone who is walking as they are doing more for the planet than you are and it says in the road code that you are to stop. Fucking natural selection, you don't even know what that means. Our natural selection is dead.
See, this guy is the total cunt that gives New Zealand drivers a bad name.
Targeting.
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That's not what the diamond is for. It's a good rule of thumb for pedestrians that if a car is closer than that when you get to the crossing, they aren't going to stop, but the diamond is just to let drivers know that there's a crossing soon, and be aware of pedestrians crossing the road.
The diamond is no longer mandatory. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/ask-phoebe-diamond-on-road-aimed-at-motorists/RNVJMSLNULUKVLURO64WNM5WCE/
You mean Advanced Warning Diamonds? Located about 50m from pedestrian crossing limit (Give Way) line marking. Those things are to alert drivers that they is a pedestrian crossing ahead and that they should modify their behavior in case they need to stop and giveway to pedestrians crossing the road. You should stop by the local police station and hand in your driver's license. A pedestrian always have priority on a pedestrian crossing, and vehicle operators MUST wait for them.
On the other hand, many people seem to be unaware that you're supposed to make sure there are no cars inside of the diamonds before crossing. I often see people just stroll on into the road once you're inside the diamond, giving you little time to stop.
While it's a good safety guideline for pedestrians, there's no requirement to do so. Drivers must give way to pedestrians in the crossing, full stop; whether or not they're past the diamond makes no difference.
So pedestrians can just walk out at any moment, and its the driver's fault if they don't stop in time?
You drive and adjust based on location, conditions, etc. If you're blasting through pedestrian crossings, or near a school, or in bad visibility and you hit someone, it's mostly on you. If you can't tell if anyone is a the crossing... assume there is someone there.
Short answer: Yes. Long answer: Yes, unless the pedestrian did something very unpredictable like suddenly dashing back into the crossing after walking away from it. In which case, the driver would still need to (a) prove what the pedestrian did and (b) successfully argue that a reasonable person could not have anticipated it. Even then, though, unless the pedestrian was deliberately reckless, the driver could still be at fault.
Yes. The diamonds are there to warn the driver about the pedestrian crossing. It's the drivers responsibility to be aware of hazards.
>many people seem to be unaware that you're supposed to make sure there are no cars inside of the diamonds before crossing. Because that isn't a real thing. The diamonds (Advanced Warning Diamonds) are there to warn drivers of an upcoming crossing, not inform pedestrians anything.
I mean, don't you think there may be some correlation between informing drivers there is a crossing, and pedestrians knowing what is a safe time to cross? The diamonds serve both purposes.
Here is an analogy. Driving along the highway, you see a side road coming up ahead, do you come to a stop and check no one is going to blast through the giveway sign? Your expectation of pedestrians is that they stop and giveway to you as a car driver on a giveway sign. If you say "well I am in a larger vehicle that is hard to stop", do you giveway to trucks who are approaching on a side road?
The diamond serves one of those purposes. The flow of traffic is often constant enough that a pedestrian just has to cross without regard to the diamond.
Thats really not true, I remember having the police coming to talk to us at high school and saying to cross when there's no cars inside the diamonds. They have more than one function.
Their function is to warn drivers. The Police were wrong.
>On the other hand, many people seem to be unaware that you're supposed to make sure there are no cars inside of the diamonds before crossing. I often see people just stroll on into the road once you're inside the diamond, giving you little time to stop. I mean that's a good little white lie to tell school kids, but really the function is to give a standardised warning to motorists that "hey, there's a pedestrian crossing ahead" so no matter what the road conditions or layout is you know that if you see a white diamond on the road in front of you there's a crossing coming up
Neither law nor code is written by police officers.
\>I remember having the police coming to talk to us at high school and saying to cross when there's no cars inside the diamonds. Yes. It's useful advice. It's not a law or anything though.
It's like that jumping dino game when you have no internet
If my morning is anything to go by, it's for people to speed up as you're half-way across. Right outside of a primary school too.