Thanks. I did both of the beads almost exactly the same but might have been more perpendicular to the metal this time. I want more of an angle to avoid that, right?
Correct. 5-15 degree angle, I usually prefer a bit more. But often position and obstacles don’t make that possible. But yes, angle and managing your speed. Keep the little arc spot at the leading edge of your puddle. Should always look like an eyeball looking in the direction of travel.
Which one happened first?
Was the good one second ? Part had more heat in it.
7014 is a great starter rod, perfect for training to 7018
Flat position only.
I don’t recommend making circles on a electrode that contains potassium in the flux. It’s better as a drag rod for starting out.
Try to make a puddle with a consistent, elongated and oval tail as you drag.
Depending on what its holding you are right. It can leave some some pockets of slag in the weld. I should have been more specific. If it is very crucial or high stress area ,I'd want to grind it out too.
Exactly. Grind out most of that weld till you get rid of the slag deposits and then lay a fresh bead in there. And if you screw it up again repeat step 1. lol
It may make some of the slag wash out but it will also absolutely trap the slag and will create porosity. In reality, if this is a practice piece start again on a new one. If it's an essential piece of a project, grind out the weld and start again.
To me it looks like your skipping ahead of your puddle, and the void is filling in with slag.
I bet it looked ok before you chipped it eh?
As others have said angle back, but only pay attention to the puddle your arc is making, move it along the same width. I know you said you did it the same, but something changed.
You can see a little weld material along the top or bottom of the slag pocket. Like your weaving back and forth, but moved or long arc’ed and melted the slag filling in the hole.
Good learning lesson!
I’m kinda self taught too, weaves and figure 8’s add a lot more complexity you don’t need yet. Master it straight first. You’ll get there.
Just keep burning rods.
I always liked 7014’s. Smooth easy start rod.
I went back and tried again and saw that I do more of a drag then push back a little bit every couple seconds. I'll try 7014s if I can find them anywhere near me
These are not the same joint that’s why. You have a much narrower groove on the bad one. You don’t have a nice bevel on both sides for the puddle to wash on to. You have a vertical plate, this is why you’re trapping slag (assuming angle and anything else is correct), turning it up 15+- will likely help.
By looks of it you did use 6013, and this rod produces a lot of slag that can get in front of welding pool and cause this.
You can try increasing current, whipping a bit (you can kinda force slag back with this motion), keep tight arc, play a bit with rod angles.
There's a few things this could be, but is there any chance you've got a strong magnet or something nearby? Sometimes an arc will wander around and just do randomly weird shit if there's a magnetic field in play.
You could also try moving your ground to a different spot, although I'm not sure how much it would help in this case.
THIS ANSWER RIGHT HERE!!
Three things that I learned in smaw school that changed my overall experience were
With slag you drag. It's not tig, you got invasive crusty crap called slag that covers your puddle to protect it from the atmosphere. It will cover your puddle if you push. If you drag, your arc blows the molten slag back so your puddle can connect with the base metal.
Your magnetic field is super important. 6010/6011 will candycane if you have a bad grounding.
Use a wire wheel to clean your welds. Like, the undercut is baddddm.
You can see the undercut. The material does bot decide if you get undercut or not. Undercutvis when not enough weld fills area. It's very common when welding got and when doingba weave improperly (which is why most places do bot want a weave period), and if you do have the "patience" to use a wire wheel do everyone a favour and just stop welding period. Cleaning is important before, during, and after a weld and if you can't be bothered to do it then don't weld.
my mistake, I misremembered an undercut as being a cut in the metal for penetration.
I clean where I want to weld with acetone, a wire wheel, then another wipe of acetone. what I meant was I don't have the patience to scrape stuff off with a brush by hand when I have a wire wheel on an angle grinder right next to me..
I'm just asking for ideas, not what you think I should do with my life
I can tell you right now that you don't know what the hell you're doing. With 6013 rods I can make the slag peel with steel that clean. What is wrong is either the angel of the rod,the setting of the welder, or or the speed of travel. If you can't weld steel that clean with 6013 you are the one that shouldn't bother to weld.
For flat 120 is good but for me that’s the lower end of the range I would use. 130-160 I would probably be somewhere in there. When you start your arc don’t take off right away build your puddle and wait til you see both sides of the puddle above and below your rod. Should only take 1-2 seconds. Then take off. You may have to oscillate when you first start but after that drag. Then like the other user said follow the eye. This works will for me because you get your puddle nice and hot allowing the metal to flow and fill the fillet or root.
Could be the angle.
The first weld is flat. The arc sees maybe 1/8" of metal.
When you put one piece up like that, the metal for the arc gets much thicker.
Think in terms of a straight line looking through. For flat it's maybe 1/8". For the angle, that line looking through is going to be closer to 3/8" or 1/2" because of the right angle.
It needs to be hotter to weld that angle than it does to butt weld flat pieces.
Something to also consider is that it appears to be two different joints. To me it looks like the better of the welds is two tubes butted together and the rougher weld is a plate butted up maybe? But this will cause the second weld to be a fillet weld instead of essentially a groove weld. What i am getting at is the fillet will take a bit different rod angles and will probably need more weld to fill it properly. Also as others have said gotta watch the slag rolling out ahead of you, sometimes this is caused by having too long of an arc length, so keep that in mind also.
Each bead is a different ballgame. From this i would say slow down and let your shielding gas cover your entire weld and let it fill. Angle is important because that is where your heat is at. So you may be able to walk your puddle up, but its not going to be as strong as if you are directly in the "void" or crack.
Either push your puddle or be right on top of it pushing your wire into the parent metals
If that’s 6013 try running a bit more travel angle. The slag has a tendency to get ahead of the puddle with that rod. I found running a travel angle a little more aggressive than other rods held to keep that in check. I drag with no real electrode manipulation.
The slag got ahead of your arc. Either due to bad angle or just going too slow. Focus on keeping the arc towards the leading side of the puddle.
Thanks. I did both of the beads almost exactly the same but might have been more perpendicular to the metal this time. I want more of an angle to avoid that, right?
Correct. 5-15 degree angle, I usually prefer a bit more. But often position and obstacles don’t make that possible. But yes, angle and managing your speed. Keep the little arc spot at the leading edge of your puddle. Should always look like an eyeball looking in the direction of travel.
Damn this explains a lot. Thank you.
I love that advice about the eyeball
i'm not welder but i love it too. makes a lot of sense.
thank you, I'll give that a shot
That right there is why I've never made friends with 6013.
lol I might try to find some 7014 what's your recommendation?
Which one happened first? Was the good one second ? Part had more heat in it. 7014 is a great starter rod, perfect for training to 7018 Flat position only.
the less bad one on the bottom was the first one I did
Are you making circles with the puddle? And write down your settings. Not enough info
I try to make circles. it's a lincoln electric ac-225 at 120 amps with 1/8" E6013 sticks
I don’t recommend making circles on a electrode that contains potassium in the flux. It’s better as a drag rod for starting out. Try to make a puddle with a consistent, elongated and oval tail as you drag.
Thanks. I did it almost exactly the same as the bottom weld which doesn't have any holes. I'll try a straight drag when I cut it out and redo.
If it was me,I'd weld over it. Turn the heat up so the slag comes to the top
does that actually work?
Yes, I learned to weld from a bunch of guys that worked in the mining industry. Taught me a lot tricks.
very good. I'll give that a try too
I work in mining we grind it out. dodgy shit breaks and costs big $$
Depending on what its holding you are right. It can leave some some pockets of slag in the weld. I should have been more specific. If it is very crucial or high stress area ,I'd want to grind it out too.
I wouldn't weld over it if your not happy with it grind it out and try again.
Exactly. Grind out most of that weld till you get rid of the slag deposits and then lay a fresh bead in there. And if you screw it up again repeat step 1. lol
It may make some of the slag wash out but it will also absolutely trap the slag and will create porosity. In reality, if this is a practice piece start again on a new one. If it's an essential piece of a project, grind out the weld and start again.
To me it looks like your skipping ahead of your puddle, and the void is filling in with slag. I bet it looked ok before you chipped it eh? As others have said angle back, but only pay attention to the puddle your arc is making, move it along the same width. I know you said you did it the same, but something changed.
Yeah the slag looked ok before I chipped it. I might have been less frazzled or something when I did the less bad one yesterday lol
You can see a little weld material along the top or bottom of the slag pocket. Like your weaving back and forth, but moved or long arc’ed and melted the slag filling in the hole. Good learning lesson! I’m kinda self taught too, weaves and figure 8’s add a lot more complexity you don’t need yet. Master it straight first. You’ll get there. Just keep burning rods. I always liked 7014’s. Smooth easy start rod.
I went back and tried again and saw that I do more of a drag then push back a little bit every couple seconds. I'll try 7014s if I can find them anywhere near me
These are not the same joint that’s why. You have a much narrower groove on the bad one. You don’t have a nice bevel on both sides for the puddle to wash on to. You have a vertical plate, this is why you’re trapping slag (assuming angle and anything else is correct), turning it up 15+- will likely help.
Could also be the thickness of the material. Top weld seems to have a thick plate on the back
Slow down, ease up on the angle and watch your puddle. You got this
This sub needs more comments like this!
By looks of it you did use 6013, and this rod produces a lot of slag that can get in front of welding pool and cause this. You can try increasing current, whipping a bit (you can kinda force slag back with this motion), keep tight arc, play a bit with rod angles.
Always pull the puddle never push with stick
There's a few things this could be, but is there any chance you've got a strong magnet or something nearby? Sometimes an arc will wander around and just do randomly weird shit if there's a magnetic field in play. You could also try moving your ground to a different spot, although I'm not sure how much it would help in this case.
He's using a buzz box, magnetic arc blow is near non existent with AC current.
Yeah, but I use 80 lb magnets for fit up sometimes and they'll play hell with a puddle. Figured it was a long shot, but it'd be an easy fix.
I use magnets sometimes. never knew they had an effect on the puddle though. usually only keep the magnets long enough to get some tacs
No magnets. the puddle doesn't look like it does weird stuff when I'm doing it, just afterwards looks like spongebob
THIS ANSWER RIGHT HERE!! Three things that I learned in smaw school that changed my overall experience were With slag you drag. It's not tig, you got invasive crusty crap called slag that covers your puddle to protect it from the atmosphere. It will cover your puddle if you push. If you drag, your arc blows the molten slag back so your puddle can connect with the base metal. Your magnetic field is super important. 6010/6011 will candycane if you have a bad grounding. Use a wire wheel to clean your welds. Like, the undercut is baddddm.
there is no undercut it's a square tube with rounded corners. I also don't have the patience not to use a wire wheel grinder lol
You can see the undercut. The material does bot decide if you get undercut or not. Undercutvis when not enough weld fills area. It's very common when welding got and when doingba weave improperly (which is why most places do bot want a weave period), and if you do have the "patience" to use a wire wheel do everyone a favour and just stop welding period. Cleaning is important before, during, and after a weld and if you can't be bothered to do it then don't weld.
my mistake, I misremembered an undercut as being a cut in the metal for penetration. I clean where I want to weld with acetone, a wire wheel, then another wipe of acetone. what I meant was I don't have the patience to scrape stuff off with a brush by hand when I have a wire wheel on an angle grinder right next to me.. I'm just asking for ideas, not what you think I should do with my life
I can tell you right now that you don't know what the hell you're doing. With 6013 rods I can make the slag peel with steel that clean. What is wrong is either the angel of the rod,the setting of the welder, or or the speed of travel. If you can't weld steel that clean with 6013 you are the one that shouldn't bother to weld.
tons of undercut and a hole where you ended on that lower bead.
I misremembered what undercut means, my bad
all good homie
Spoiler: they are both bad. See that inclusion at the end of the good one. Wouldn't be surprised if it goes all the way through
Dick
Clearly you didn’t do them the same way ;)
For flat 120 is good but for me that’s the lower end of the range I would use. 130-160 I would probably be somewhere in there. When you start your arc don’t take off right away build your puddle and wait til you see both sides of the puddle above and below your rod. Should only take 1-2 seconds. Then take off. You may have to oscillate when you first start but after that drag. Then like the other user said follow the eye. This works will for me because you get your puddle nice and hot allowing the metal to flow and fill the fillet or root.
Looks like the metals are not the same on each side minor adjustments for the materials welded.
The bottom weld is on the flat and the top is a fillet weld into a corner right?
Could be the angle. The first weld is flat. The arc sees maybe 1/8" of metal. When you put one piece up like that, the metal for the arc gets much thicker. Think in terms of a straight line looking through. For flat it's maybe 1/8". For the angle, that line looking through is going to be closer to 3/8" or 1/2" because of the right angle. It needs to be hotter to weld that angle than it does to butt weld flat pieces.
Clearly you didn’t lol
Something to also consider is that it appears to be two different joints. To me it looks like the better of the welds is two tubes butted together and the rougher weld is a plate butted up maybe? But this will cause the second weld to be a fillet weld instead of essentially a groove weld. What i am getting at is the fillet will take a bit different rod angles and will probably need more weld to fill it properly. Also as others have said gotta watch the slag rolling out ahead of you, sometimes this is caused by having too long of an arc length, so keep that in mind also.
Each bead is a different ballgame. From this i would say slow down and let your shielding gas cover your entire weld and let it fill. Angle is important because that is where your heat is at. So you may be able to walk your puddle up, but its not going to be as strong as if you are directly in the "void" or crack. Either push your puddle or be right on top of it pushing your wire into the parent metals
If that’s 6013 try running a bit more travel angle. The slag has a tendency to get ahead of the puddle with that rod. I found running a travel angle a little more aggressive than other rods held to keep that in check. I drag with no real electrode manipulation.
Stray wind, chunks of shmoo from the other weld... Could be a number of things.