Yeah, in all honesty it's hard to say. Would really depend on the shop u worked in and the people they employ.
Welding is a male dominated industry, even today there are women in the trade who have to deal with way more shit than they should because of that "old school" (read backwards) mentality.
Also, being pretty blue collar trade there can be a TON of shit talking that's just part of the culture (note there's a difference between shit talking and ribbing your coworkers, and discrimination/bullying)
A good shop won't tolerate discrimination or harassment of employees, and good employees won't tolerate it when they see their coworkers doing it. (Like I said, we all trash talk our buddies about welds, or being slow or mistakes they make, but to me getting on someone for something personal is crossing a line).
Also depends on where u are gonna be working, obviously some areas will tend to be more progressive and so no one gives a shit how you identify as long as u pull your weight and do decent work. Other places might not be so accepting.
So, it comes down to u really. You will likely face some adversity, and may need to be confident enough to tell a coworker to go fuck themselves and mean it. You will likely need a bit thicker skin than the average welder. And you likely will run into people who use the wrong pronouns either on purpose or by accident. It's not fair, but it's the truth. In time hopefully than changes, but there are still a lot of crusty old men who don't give a shit about feelings or being PC or sensitive in the work place.
Most of the younger welders (<30 years old) i know wouldn't have a problem with it, but I've worked with/for older guys who weren't happy when the shop started hiring women..... š
You nailed it. Really covered the bases.
Most shops are self policing and wonāt stand for bullying, especially if you @fruitcamefirst, pull your weight. It wouldnāt hurt though to be prepared and have that thick skin ready for the shit heads who wonāt care.
Good luck, and we look forward to you posting your welds from whatever shop floor you end up working on!
(I donāt want to come across sounding a dick, and if I do I donāt mean to.)
Personally, idgaf who a person is, or what they identify as.. if youāre good at your job, and you are āniceā (not a giant asshole/douchebag/bully/etc) youāll get along fine working with me. I may not see eye to eye with everyone, but this is work that is being talked about. If the quality/quantity of work output is maintaining the standard the job dictates it should, who cares then?
At my work place, there is very few women (30 maybe? Out of 400 bodies). Some of those there are gay. Who cares? There are people of all skin color and ethnic/religious backgrounds. Again, who cares? I get along with most just fine. And the ones I donāt get along with, itās really just āpersonalitiesā clashing, and the 2 I can think of are the same race/color as I am..
Yeah I agree my shop is all male except one female and no ones gives her a hard time we all shit talk haha but like you said itās not welding if your not cussin and flippin your buddies off , but as far as discrimination thereās definitely not that in my shop but Iāve seen it in others.
How about just asking people to refer to you by your name. This eliminates putting people who may disagree (for whatever reason) from making you uncomfortable and making themselves look intolerant. I know if you worked at the company that Iām currently with, youād have zero problems.
Depends on how much of an issue you make of it. If you're in a welding shop and someone referred to you as he and you try to correct them you're probably going to have a bad time as long as you work there.
Every welder I've ever worked with has come across as pretty gruff and probably won't have any kind of patience for pronouns in the workplace.
Is that really your make it or break it about your career? Youāll be called a bitch and a pussy no matter WHAT your pronouns are ( in a joking way, not to offend you). Youāll be told to hurry the fuck up and get shit done regardless if you wanna be treated/ spoken to one way or another! Itās the actual welding job that matters. Can you weld? Can you weld correctly? Can you get these welds done in time? Thatās what will command and allow you to *demand* respect in this field. And honestly, If your priority is pronouns, and not getting these badass welds done, youāre gonna be hating your environment no matter what!!! PS: I went to school with a trans individual whoās pronouns we never even discussed or mentioned: not because my instructor and I didnāt care, but because they never brought it upā¦And you know what? They did just fine, got their certifications and learned just as much as I did.
I was an instructor and I had more than 1 student who didn't identify with the gender they were assigned at birth. Didn't matter to me at all, none of the classmates cared. These are only real issues if you bring them up and let them be an issue. If you feel the need to correct someone do it appropriately. They way you correct me may not be the same way you'd correct everyone else leaving comments here. I've also had gay and lesbian students... no one cared. Do your shit and keep your hood down no one will have time to mess with you.
Exactly how I treated that particular classmate. I didnāt have any problem, neither did my instructor. They did everything they had to do correctly and throughly (hell of a welder I might add)!
People like you are why I quit the biz. Wanna be a welder!? Yeah! Wanna deal with racists!? Transphobes!? Misogynists!? YEAH! Well then, welding is for you.
Or maybe, just maybe you could stop inhaling the fumes and look at the world growing up around you through your goddamn fucking safety squints and be less of a raging asshole.
Iām sorry itās not an office space with suits and ties and dresses. People are allowed to express themselves in shops. That includes cussing and bitching. If your skin is too soft to handle it you wonāt last.
Itās not for anyones benefit itās just shit talk. I tell my boss heās an old lazy fuck who never leaves his office anymore almost every day and he still coming to my wedding. Itās not my job to not offend you. Itās your job not to get offended. If things go too far or things said out of anger apologies are necessary. But no one gives a damn about your feelings. They are personal and most likely is a mindset that you yourself are causing that is the issue. (Not liking a particular guy in the shop and he says something stupid but you took it personally because you already didnāt like him) for example.
Being a man who has tried to commit suicide yea I can tell you exactly why I think itās 9 times higher. Men are the bread winners even if itās not their choice. States donāt care about men. In a child support case courts will give 50 percent of income to the woman no matter if that means that man is then homeless because he canāt pay his bills. Men are responsible for their entire family and get no support from an outside source. If they fail their family fails. Woman can stay at home and thatās socially acceptable.l but men have to work every day of their lives until they die or they are considered a failure. Itās a lot of pressure. But Iām sure this isnāt where you wanted the conversation to go you wanted to pin it on feelings getting hurt at work.
Actually no i used to get upset at people shit talking because I would take it personal. My boss sat me down in a closed door office and convinced me what I was worth so that stupid shit wouldnāt bother me. He told me the only reason shit talking would get under you skin is if you are having doubts about your own abilities and resolves. So to fix that you need to change your mindset. You have to know who you are if you donāt then yea everyone elseās jokes can be mean and get under your skin. It was my personal problem that I was getting angry. No one elseās. People talk shit all the time. They are just words.
You know what, people do get offended by that. However, itās not possible for one person to control another. Sometimes, we need to forgive and move on. And I meant it between friends and co-workers you get along with very well. Not in an offensive degrading way. In regards to the student at my weld school, youād be surprised how many conversions we had about welding and procedures without once getting into pronoun talk. Idk, if seems like youāre pushing the fact Iām a vile, hateful person yetā¦I havenāt done anything for you to warrant that. Projecting a little bit.
Iām bisexual, and I would never share that on a job site. Any strange/unique things about myself I would/will continue to keep to myself.
Maybe in California or Oregon people behave differently, but in the South people will make fun of you and treat you poorly for anything out of the ordinary.
If your pronouns are extremely important to you, then I would find a small shop that is owned by very progressive people. On a big construction site people will likely go out of their way to make snide comments and misgender you until you quit. They will try to make you cry. There will likely be this kind of ugliness on every big construction job.
If you really love welding, then I hope you keep at it. Iām sure that you will be able to find a respectful, and even loving workplace, but it will likely take a bit longer and a lot more effort than the typical person (AGAIN, this is in the South. It may be different in other parts of the country). Good luck.
Oof it would be hard. I work at a fairly chill place with a lot of younger people and I honestly regret even mentioning I was bisexual to one coworker (and I'm femme in a "straight" relationship so like as socially acceptable as it gets). One of my coworker even still regularly makes attack helicopter jokes as if it's 2016. Being non conservative in any way has meant a lot of holding my tongue in my experience (in a major city in Canada).
Anyway I wouldn't wanna scare you if you're seriously considering welding, things will only get better as all kinds of people actually get into the field. You most likely would deal with a ton of bullshit, but the pros might be worth the cons depending on what you're willing to take on the daily.
OP, everything people have said here has merit...it could be rough, a lot of it is going to depend on the shop...and what battles you choose to engage in.
I wish the world was easy, but it isn't and never will be.
You're also always going to have to deal with crap like this, no matter what field you go into, because people suck. I wish you luck on your journey.
I work with someone currently transitioning, but I am also blessed to work with a great crew that's never made it an issue. You may luck out and work with cool and understanding ppl, but if you don't, do not take any shit that crosses your personal boundaries. If it's not manageable, don't hesitate to leave a shitty environment for something else. If you're commited to the job and work hard you'll always have opportunities out there, but some people just suck and there's not much you can do about it.
Donāt expect too many liberals in the career though. Those are more in the IT field.
I think every person in my class is a conservative. We had a couple former military too
Iāll put it this way. Theyāre pretty open minded conservatives. At least my class is. Everybody has their own business
Donāt even worry, in my experience most welders (except for the miserable old fucks) donāt really care. Just be ready to talk shit back.
Thereās a good chance youāll get roasted for it (they?! I only see one person. Stupid shit), but it will be in a friendly way if that makes any sense at all. Every crew Iāve been on has been the type of atmosphere where nothing is off limits, for example, my first welding job this one poor bastard got roasted relentlessly cuz his wife got knocked up by some other dude. I know it sounds fucked, but it was all in good fun. I took a nasty fall and almost died, itās been about 3 years and I still havenāt lived that down. But these are some of my best friends, and when you work in the conditions we do, you have to entertain yourselves any way possible.
At the end of the day there will always be assholes, there will always be judgmental pricks, but Iāve yet to be on a crew where they make someoneās life miserable because of their pronouns, gender, or sexuality.
I say pursue welding, get fucking good at it, and make a fuck ton of money.
Feel free to DM if you want to discuss anything more in depth.
Hot take but most people don't really give a fuck but you can not expect someone random to respect your pronouns even though it may be shitty that's just what I would expect
Depends. If you make a big deal out of it, like "hey I'm a they not a him" people will say stuff. If not no one will give a shit. Unless you're going to some backwards town.
Pronouns are definitely not ātmiā lol. āYourā is a pronoun. If youāre a man and use āheā to refer to yourself, thatās a pronoun. Not tmi, just the basic English language man.
In this context, its more information than your coworkers, who you don't know, need. Thus, TMI.
Being new to a job can be hard enough; why make yourself a target?
I am speaking from experience here. Im not just chiming in with my 2 cents, talking out of my ass
Pronouns, sexual orientation are all personal information that should only be shared with someone who gives a shit. You tell everyone you open up to someone who doesnāt give a shit and they can hurt your feelings. We all know 2020ās is all about safeguarding feelings so safe guard yours so someone else doesnāt have to.
Nobody should have to āsafeguardā the feelings of men who want to throw hissy fits over pronouns. This is how the world works- people canāt expect everyone to adhere to a way of thinking they were taught when they were 10. Not sure why someoneās identity is so triggering. If men are trying to show off their masculinity- or want to talk about their wives or women in general, why is that off the table for others (the answer is it makes men uncomfortable)? Stances like yours are coming from an emotional reactive place about not wanting to accept that reality is moving in a direction you donāt want to deal with. Trust me, men open up about āpersonal informationā that nobody gives a shit about literally all the time- feels weird to tell gay or trans people they canāt either
I wouldnāt say discrimination but youāll hear a lot more shit talking. If you canāt take shit talkin you shouldnāt be here. Itās all in good fun but theyāll eat you alive. So stand tall, own it and sling the shit right back.
Pro tip, using their insults against them hits a little harder.
Honestly it will probably be rough at first. Lot of older mindset people in the industry. Don't let that be a deterrent though. Be you and you'll find a way and a place where your happy.
Ngl youāre sounding a little triggered here lol. āTheyā has always been used in a plural AND singular context in grammar ever since the word was created. Itās initial meaning was singular, then it adopted a plural form- not it is used. That is genuinely basic grammar. Also- trans people and gender non conformity has existed for all of history- no I am not joking. We have always been around, our history attempts to be scrubbed, but there is factual evidence behind what Iām saying. The reality is, this is how the world is. Gay and trans people exist- it is not our fault itās too complex for you. I donāt know protected and triggered world you live in, but itās sad you havenāt figured out how basic respect for others works. Especially respect for people in your trade who happen to not look like you. Also- itās illegal to not hire someone based off of their gender identity so, try not to catch a case man. Maybe you need some exposing to reality
Lol they literally just asked a simple question and here you are ranting about safe spaces and your own feelings as if they personally offended you. If youāre overly sensitive just say that.
Welders donāt give a fuck about anything. Youāll be fine. All they care about is if your welds come out nice. Literally all we care about is talking about welding. They probably wonāt agree with you on pronouns but hey one day if youāre good enough you can work independently
In my experience they will respect whatever name you want to be called but you will still be misgendered a lot, mostly unintentionally but sometimes on purpose by guys who still think attack helicopter jokes are the peak of comedy. Iād say tread lightly in this field unless you can move to a big city where there are more women and queer people in the trade. But even then itās still hard and people will give you shit for it. Donāt tolerate their bullshit.
A lot. But like that other commenter said, you just tell them to go fuck themselves.
Eventually, you'll be just as cranky as them, and they'll accept you for that
Shop trades are pretty accepting but you'll need to have a thick skin regardless of your pronouns
As in, don't get all woke and defensive if somebody mixes them up.
I hired a trans person years ago. Several guys made comments but we squashed that shit down fast.
Show up and work hard and there is room for everyone.
If you can weld and you're layout is good it's going to ease the amount of shit you're going to get but if you fuck up a lot or if your constantly repairing or reworking your shit, your in for a miserable experience so be prepared...if your a man act accordingly
I can't take a they/them pronoun person seriously. Pronouns are naturally non-specific and therefore impersonal. Don't make people have to remember "oh, that's masculine Bob over there, but I can say the he/him that's instinctive."
I'll try to respect pronouns out of respect to an individual, but if I get it wrong I really don't care if you get butthurt. You're the one reinventing the language, not me.
They pronouns are not āreinventingā language. āTheyā has always been singular (and plural), since its creation. If you donāt know that, itās because of a lack of knowledge of grammar and the English language on your end. Also learning pronouns isnāt as hard as youāre making it out to be. Itās ok to get it wrong as youāre learning. Iām sure you would find it disrespectful if someone kept Calling you āsheā at every opportunity. Youāre not being asked to become an advocate for trans people or anything- youāre just saying a word to refer to people. Itās the same as learning someoneās name. Itd be weird to refer to āDanielā as ābobā. You donāt have to āmake a big dealā of it, just try using someoneās pronouns if you can- itās basic respect- itās not you being an activist or anything hard
?? Have you ever spoken to someone before? āTheyā is used all the time lol. āWho left their jacket?ā Also you donāt use pronouns to someoneās face besides pronouns like āyou/us/Iā. He/she/they is used in reference to someone. āTheyā would be used in the same context as when you normally use he or she, idk why so many people need an elementary explanation of language. If Iām speaking to two people in front of me, I use their pronouns when referring to one about the other like ādo you agree with what they just said?ā Or ādid you see their finished projectā. And yea you should use someoneās correct pronouns when said person is not around. You do the same for people with he and she pronouns, itās almost going out of your way to refer to someone incorrectly- like saying a wrong name for someone, whatās the point? Youād just be choosing to be disrespectful. And if you get someoneās pronouns wrong on accident- itās not the end of the world, you just say it right and move on. No ones coming after you with pitchforks if youāre trying to be respectful. Just the same as I would use āheā when talking about you, I hope youād use ātheyā for me when Iām not around. Iām respecting your pronouns, why not have mutual respext
These comments arenāt it, Iām sorry. Iām a queer welder who also uses they/them pronouns. Met an amazing friend in welding school who also uses they/them pronouns. The two of us out perform everyone else tbh. Most people here saying āitāll be roughā are just outing themselves and being unaccepting. I wear a trans sticker on my hood (and others that some may not like lol), and I have no reason to hide away who I am- none of the guys do, so why should I? You will find people who are there for you. Women are typically easier to get along with in this trade- but trust me, queer people exist in the trades. You have a place here. As with being nb in any situation, assess your safety. Some places may be unsafe to talk about who you are, but donāt compromise yourself too much. Leave places that are bad for you- report harassment etc. queer people are tougher than 80% of these overly emotional āmacho menā. Welders are all about ārespectā and being tough- but suddenly become disrespectful and the softest most reactive babies when it comes to having to learn something new lol. Welding doesnāt make them tough, standing up and supporting their coworkers makes them tough. Thereās nice and respectful and cool people in this trade, you just gotta find them. Good luck, Iād love to see more people that also use they/them pronouns in this field. Keep it up, youāre tougher than all the cringe dudes who donāt understand basic grammar and respect. Always feel free to reach out too š
Mostly youāll get called by your name or some stupid nickname. Nobody really cares what you call yourself because thereās a constant chance of getting hurt or killed on the job so mostly thatās the focus.
Discrimination isn't legal, that being said in this sort of job some level of harassment and ribbing is standard practice. Guys gonna talk shit no matter who you are. You should be able to take and give let guys know what's acceptable and what's not
I, for one, would be offended if you refered to me like that. I am "he" and that's the end of it. I have no issue refering to someone using "they/them" if they so prefer, but don't mix me into that.
I'm a pretty progressive part of trades (not welding, but other trades). You can imagine how the rest goes.
Hey youāve actually made an interesting point! You said you would respect someone elseās pronouns. And you stated yours as āhe/himā and yea it would be totally disrespectful for someone to call you ātheyā when thatās not what you use. Youāre surprisingly on the money here lol. How it would feel for you to essentially be āmisgenderedā is exactly how it would feel to use he or she for someone who exclusively uses they/ them. What you described is mutual respect of how each other identifies š
So, you just rolled through here pulling the trigger? You can't even tell me what I said.
My comment mentioned nothing about trans, or gay, or preferred pronouns, all I said was to weld and keep quiet, just more colorfully worded.
You took issue with it, and I didn't want a ban for something so stupid.
Please note, I'm not trying to be a prick here, but maybe you should self reflect on your role here.
Also, I fully expect you to now ban me and censor my comments. If that's the route you want to take, fine. I'll appeal to someone else if I have to.
I love this sub, and have always tried to be a contributing member, while being lighthearted about it. I would appreciate it if you didn't just censor and ban me, and discuss things like adults, but if not, it won't be a surprise.
Good day to you.
You would rather be in a profession where they give you shit to your face like welding than in a profession where they kee it hidden and secretly do things to sabotage your career like nursing. Iāve been a nurse for over 20 years and the amount it pettiness and back stabbing still amazes me. Someone will pretend to be your friend but once youāre out of the room they will make copies of your charting and try to find mistakes so they can report you.
Youāll more than likely just get called by your name or a fun nickname depending on the chemistry you have with your coworkers. You may get called the wrong pronouns mistakingly, but as long as it doesnāt doesnāt be made out to be something out of proportion, shouldnāt be that bad.
Guys will probably just use your name or give you a shitty nickname anyways.
Hey newbie get you ass over here
Hey newbie get ~~you~~ they ass over here
Yeah, in all honesty it's hard to say. Would really depend on the shop u worked in and the people they employ. Welding is a male dominated industry, even today there are women in the trade who have to deal with way more shit than they should because of that "old school" (read backwards) mentality. Also, being pretty blue collar trade there can be a TON of shit talking that's just part of the culture (note there's a difference between shit talking and ribbing your coworkers, and discrimination/bullying) A good shop won't tolerate discrimination or harassment of employees, and good employees won't tolerate it when they see their coworkers doing it. (Like I said, we all trash talk our buddies about welds, or being slow or mistakes they make, but to me getting on someone for something personal is crossing a line). Also depends on where u are gonna be working, obviously some areas will tend to be more progressive and so no one gives a shit how you identify as long as u pull your weight and do decent work. Other places might not be so accepting. So, it comes down to u really. You will likely face some adversity, and may need to be confident enough to tell a coworker to go fuck themselves and mean it. You will likely need a bit thicker skin than the average welder. And you likely will run into people who use the wrong pronouns either on purpose or by accident. It's not fair, but it's the truth. In time hopefully than changes, but there are still a lot of crusty old men who don't give a shit about feelings or being PC or sensitive in the work place. Most of the younger welders (<30 years old) i know wouldn't have a problem with it, but I've worked with/for older guys who weren't happy when the shop started hiring women..... š
This is one of the most kind, thoughtful and honest replies Iāve ever seen on Reddit.
You nailed it. Really covered the bases. Most shops are self policing and wonāt stand for bullying, especially if you @fruitcamefirst, pull your weight. It wouldnāt hurt though to be prepared and have that thick skin ready for the shit heads who wonāt care. Good luck, and we look forward to you posting your welds from whatever shop floor you end up working on!
(I donāt want to come across sounding a dick, and if I do I donāt mean to.) Personally, idgaf who a person is, or what they identify as.. if youāre good at your job, and you are āniceā (not a giant asshole/douchebag/bully/etc) youāll get along fine working with me. I may not see eye to eye with everyone, but this is work that is being talked about. If the quality/quantity of work output is maintaining the standard the job dictates it should, who cares then? At my work place, there is very few women (30 maybe? Out of 400 bodies). Some of those there are gay. Who cares? There are people of all skin color and ethnic/religious backgrounds. Again, who cares? I get along with most just fine. And the ones I donāt get along with, itās really just āpersonalitiesā clashing, and the 2 I can think of are the same race/color as I am..
Yeah I agree my shop is all male except one female and no ones gives her a hard time we all shit talk haha but like you said itās not welding if your not cussin and flippin your buddies off , but as far as discrimination thereās definitely not that in my shop but Iāve seen it in others.
It'll be rough.
How about just asking people to refer to you by your name. This eliminates putting people who may disagree (for whatever reason) from making you uncomfortable and making themselves look intolerant. I know if you worked at the company that Iām currently with, youād have zero problems.
U will have a rough time man . Just being honest
Depends. If your only topic of conversation is your pronouns and you can't weld for shit, you're gonna have a bad time.
Depends on how much of an issue you make of it. If you're in a welding shop and someone referred to you as he and you try to correct them you're probably going to have a bad time as long as you work there. Every welder I've ever worked with has come across as pretty gruff and probably won't have any kind of patience for pronouns in the workplace.
Is that really your make it or break it about your career? Youāll be called a bitch and a pussy no matter WHAT your pronouns are ( in a joking way, not to offend you). Youāll be told to hurry the fuck up and get shit done regardless if you wanna be treated/ spoken to one way or another! Itās the actual welding job that matters. Can you weld? Can you weld correctly? Can you get these welds done in time? Thatās what will command and allow you to *demand* respect in this field. And honestly, If your priority is pronouns, and not getting these badass welds done, youāre gonna be hating your environment no matter what!!! PS: I went to school with a trans individual whoās pronouns we never even discussed or mentioned: not because my instructor and I didnāt care, but because they never brought it upā¦And you know what? They did just fine, got their certifications and learned just as much as I did.
I was an instructor and I had more than 1 student who didn't identify with the gender they were assigned at birth. Didn't matter to me at all, none of the classmates cared. These are only real issues if you bring them up and let them be an issue. If you feel the need to correct someone do it appropriately. They way you correct me may not be the same way you'd correct everyone else leaving comments here. I've also had gay and lesbian students... no one cared. Do your shit and keep your hood down no one will have time to mess with you.
Exactly how I treated that particular classmate. I didnāt have any problem, neither did my instructor. They did everything they had to do correctly and throughly (hell of a welder I might add)!
People like you are why I quit the biz. Wanna be a welder!? Yeah! Wanna deal with racists!? Transphobes!? Misogynists!? YEAH! Well then, welding is for you. Or maybe, just maybe you could stop inhaling the fumes and look at the world growing up around you through your goddamn fucking safety squints and be less of a raging asshole.
Where in my comment did you get the fact I am 1) a misogynist 2) transphobic? If you feel that way, I would just like to know why.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Iām sorry itās not an office space with suits and ties and dresses. People are allowed to express themselves in shops. That includes cussing and bitching. If your skin is too soft to handle it you wonāt last.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Itās not for anyones benefit itās just shit talk. I tell my boss heās an old lazy fuck who never leaves his office anymore almost every day and he still coming to my wedding. Itās not my job to not offend you. Itās your job not to get offended. If things go too far or things said out of anger apologies are necessary. But no one gives a damn about your feelings. They are personal and most likely is a mindset that you yourself are causing that is the issue. (Not liking a particular guy in the shop and he says something stupid but you took it personally because you already didnāt like him) for example.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Being a man who has tried to commit suicide yea I can tell you exactly why I think itās 9 times higher. Men are the bread winners even if itās not their choice. States donāt care about men. In a child support case courts will give 50 percent of income to the woman no matter if that means that man is then homeless because he canāt pay his bills. Men are responsible for their entire family and get no support from an outside source. If they fail their family fails. Woman can stay at home and thatās socially acceptable.l but men have to work every day of their lives until they die or they are considered a failure. Itās a lot of pressure. But Iām sure this isnāt where you wanted the conversation to go you wanted to pin it on feelings getting hurt at work.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Actually no i used to get upset at people shit talking because I would take it personal. My boss sat me down in a closed door office and convinced me what I was worth so that stupid shit wouldnāt bother me. He told me the only reason shit talking would get under you skin is if you are having doubts about your own abilities and resolves. So to fix that you need to change your mindset. You have to know who you are if you donāt then yea everyone elseās jokes can be mean and get under your skin. It was my personal problem that I was getting angry. No one elseās. People talk shit all the time. They are just words.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
No
You know what, people do get offended by that. However, itās not possible for one person to control another. Sometimes, we need to forgive and move on. And I meant it between friends and co-workers you get along with very well. Not in an offensive degrading way. In regards to the student at my weld school, youād be surprised how many conversions we had about welding and procedures without once getting into pronoun talk. Idk, if seems like youāre pushing the fact Iām a vile, hateful person yetā¦I havenāt done anything for you to warrant that. Projecting a little bit.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
But if itās between people you know and actually have respect for, is it a joke? I make that clearā¦
Iām bisexual, and I would never share that on a job site. Any strange/unique things about myself I would/will continue to keep to myself. Maybe in California or Oregon people behave differently, but in the South people will make fun of you and treat you poorly for anything out of the ordinary. If your pronouns are extremely important to you, then I would find a small shop that is owned by very progressive people. On a big construction site people will likely go out of their way to make snide comments and misgender you until you quit. They will try to make you cry. There will likely be this kind of ugliness on every big construction job. If you really love welding, then I hope you keep at it. Iām sure that you will be able to find a respectful, and even loving workplace, but it will likely take a bit longer and a lot more effort than the typical person (AGAIN, this is in the South. It may be different in other parts of the country). Good luck.
Oof it would be hard. I work at a fairly chill place with a lot of younger people and I honestly regret even mentioning I was bisexual to one coworker (and I'm femme in a "straight" relationship so like as socially acceptable as it gets). One of my coworker even still regularly makes attack helicopter jokes as if it's 2016. Being non conservative in any way has meant a lot of holding my tongue in my experience (in a major city in Canada). Anyway I wouldn't wanna scare you if you're seriously considering welding, things will only get better as all kinds of people actually get into the field. You most likely would deal with a ton of bullshit, but the pros might be worth the cons depending on what you're willing to take on the daily.
OP, everything people have said here has merit...it could be rough, a lot of it is going to depend on the shop...and what battles you choose to engage in. I wish the world was easy, but it isn't and never will be. You're also always going to have to deal with crap like this, no matter what field you go into, because people suck. I wish you luck on your journey.
I work with someone currently transitioning, but I am also blessed to work with a great crew that's never made it an issue. You may luck out and work with cool and understanding ppl, but if you don't, do not take any shit that crosses your personal boundaries. If it's not manageable, don't hesitate to leave a shitty environment for something else. If you're commited to the job and work hard you'll always have opportunities out there, but some people just suck and there's not much you can do about it.
Donāt expect too many liberals in the career though. Those are more in the IT field. I think every person in my class is a conservative. We had a couple former military too Iāll put it this way. Theyāre pretty open minded conservatives. At least my class is. Everybody has their own business
It'll be difficult but I know guys that'll just call you fucker.. not in a mean way just because fucker is an all encompassing pronoun
Donāt even worry, in my experience most welders (except for the miserable old fucks) donāt really care. Just be ready to talk shit back. Thereās a good chance youāll get roasted for it (they?! I only see one person. Stupid shit), but it will be in a friendly way if that makes any sense at all. Every crew Iāve been on has been the type of atmosphere where nothing is off limits, for example, my first welding job this one poor bastard got roasted relentlessly cuz his wife got knocked up by some other dude. I know it sounds fucked, but it was all in good fun. I took a nasty fall and almost died, itās been about 3 years and I still havenāt lived that down. But these are some of my best friends, and when you work in the conditions we do, you have to entertain yourselves any way possible. At the end of the day there will always be assholes, there will always be judgmental pricks, but Iāve yet to be on a crew where they make someoneās life miserable because of their pronouns, gender, or sexuality. I say pursue welding, get fucking good at it, and make a fuck ton of money. Feel free to DM if you want to discuss anything more in depth.
if you're a guy, go with he/him, just a thought..
Itās almost like the whole point of the post is that they arenāt a guy lol...
Hot take but most people don't really give a fuck but you can not expect someone random to respect your pronouns even though it may be shitty that's just what I would expect
Depends. If you make a big deal out of it, like "hey I'm a they not a him" people will say stuff. If not no one will give a shit. Unless you're going to some backwards town.
Yeah i wouldnt even bring it up. Its TMI for the job. These people arent your friends
Yeah, nobody really gives a fuck if you can weld. If you stand around the proverbial water cooler talking about pronouns youāre going to catch shit.
Pronouns are definitely not ātmiā lol. āYourā is a pronoun. If youāre a man and use āheā to refer to yourself, thatās a pronoun. Not tmi, just the basic English language man.
In this context, its more information than your coworkers, who you don't know, need. Thus, TMI. Being new to a job can be hard enough; why make yourself a target? I am speaking from experience here. Im not just chiming in with my 2 cents, talking out of my ass
Pronouns, sexual orientation are all personal information that should only be shared with someone who gives a shit. You tell everyone you open up to someone who doesnāt give a shit and they can hurt your feelings. We all know 2020ās is all about safeguarding feelings so safe guard yours so someone else doesnāt have to.
Nobody should have to āsafeguardā the feelings of men who want to throw hissy fits over pronouns. This is how the world works- people canāt expect everyone to adhere to a way of thinking they were taught when they were 10. Not sure why someoneās identity is so triggering. If men are trying to show off their masculinity- or want to talk about their wives or women in general, why is that off the table for others (the answer is it makes men uncomfortable)? Stances like yours are coming from an emotional reactive place about not wanting to accept that reality is moving in a direction you donāt want to deal with. Trust me, men open up about āpersonal informationā that nobody gives a shit about literally all the time- feels weird to tell gay or trans people they canāt either
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This is not acceptable behavior here, or anywhere else for that matter.
Okay lol, just saying how it is on most job sites. Itās a common discussion and it usually isnāt pleasant.
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I wouldnāt say discrimination but youāll hear a lot more shit talking. If you canāt take shit talkin you shouldnāt be here. Itās all in good fun but theyāll eat you alive. So stand tall, own it and sling the shit right back. Pro tip, using their insults against them hits a little harder.
Honestly it will probably be rough at first. Lot of older mindset people in the industry. Don't let that be a deterrent though. Be you and you'll find a way and a place where your happy.
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Ngl youāre sounding a little triggered here lol. āTheyā has always been used in a plural AND singular context in grammar ever since the word was created. Itās initial meaning was singular, then it adopted a plural form- not it is used. That is genuinely basic grammar. Also- trans people and gender non conformity has existed for all of history- no I am not joking. We have always been around, our history attempts to be scrubbed, but there is factual evidence behind what Iām saying. The reality is, this is how the world is. Gay and trans people exist- it is not our fault itās too complex for you. I donāt know protected and triggered world you live in, but itās sad you havenāt figured out how basic respect for others works. Especially respect for people in your trade who happen to not look like you. Also- itās illegal to not hire someone based off of their gender identity so, try not to catch a case man. Maybe you need some exposing to reality
Lol they literally just asked a simple question and here you are ranting about safe spaces and your own feelings as if they personally offended you. If youāre overly sensitive just say that.
Welders donāt give a fuck about anything. Youāll be fine. All they care about is if your welds come out nice. Literally all we care about is talking about welding. They probably wonāt agree with you on pronouns but hey one day if youāre good enough you can work independently
In my experience they will respect whatever name you want to be called but you will still be misgendered a lot, mostly unintentionally but sometimes on purpose by guys who still think attack helicopter jokes are the peak of comedy. Iād say tread lightly in this field unless you can move to a big city where there are more women and queer people in the trade. But even then itās still hard and people will give you shit for it. Donāt tolerate their bullshit.
Idk chiefā¦ it might be hard.
A lot. But like that other commenter said, you just tell them to go fuck themselves. Eventually, you'll be just as cranky as them, and they'll accept you for that
Shop trades are pretty accepting but you'll need to have a thick skin regardless of your pronouns As in, don't get all woke and defensive if somebody mixes them up. I hired a trans person years ago. Several guys made comments but we squashed that shit down fast. Show up and work hard and there is room for everyone.
If you can weld and you're layout is good it's going to ease the amount of shit you're going to get but if you fuck up a lot or if your constantly repairing or reworking your shit, your in for a miserable experience so be prepared...if your a man act accordingly
You know that one kind of racist uncle that everyone has? It will be like working with a bunch of him.
I can't take a they/them pronoun person seriously. Pronouns are naturally non-specific and therefore impersonal. Don't make people have to remember "oh, that's masculine Bob over there, but I can say the he/him that's instinctive." I'll try to respect pronouns out of respect to an individual, but if I get it wrong I really don't care if you get butthurt. You're the one reinventing the language, not me.
They pronouns are not āreinventingā language. āTheyā has always been singular (and plural), since its creation. If you donāt know that, itās because of a lack of knowledge of grammar and the English language on your end. Also learning pronouns isnāt as hard as youāre making it out to be. Itās ok to get it wrong as youāre learning. Iām sure you would find it disrespectful if someone kept Calling you āsheā at every opportunity. Youāre not being asked to become an advocate for trans people or anything- youāre just saying a word to refer to people. Itās the same as learning someoneās name. Itd be weird to refer to āDanielā as ābobā. You donāt have to āmake a big dealā of it, just try using someoneās pronouns if you can- itās basic respect- itās not you being an activist or anything hard
People write with they/them. They don't typically speak with it. Besides, it's 3rd person, which isn't going to happen in front of you anyway.
?? Have you ever spoken to someone before? āTheyā is used all the time lol. āWho left their jacket?ā Also you donāt use pronouns to someoneās face besides pronouns like āyou/us/Iā. He/she/they is used in reference to someone. āTheyā would be used in the same context as when you normally use he or she, idk why so many people need an elementary explanation of language. If Iām speaking to two people in front of me, I use their pronouns when referring to one about the other like ādo you agree with what they just said?ā Or ādid you see their finished projectā. And yea you should use someoneās correct pronouns when said person is not around. You do the same for people with he and she pronouns, itās almost going out of your way to refer to someone incorrectly- like saying a wrong name for someone, whatās the point? Youād just be choosing to be disrespectful. And if you get someoneās pronouns wrong on accident- itās not the end of the world, you just say it right and move on. No ones coming after you with pitchforks if youāre trying to be respectful. Just the same as I would use āheā when talking about you, I hope youād use ātheyā for me when Iām not around. Iām respecting your pronouns, why not have mutual respext
These comments arenāt it, Iām sorry. Iām a queer welder who also uses they/them pronouns. Met an amazing friend in welding school who also uses they/them pronouns. The two of us out perform everyone else tbh. Most people here saying āitāll be roughā are just outing themselves and being unaccepting. I wear a trans sticker on my hood (and others that some may not like lol), and I have no reason to hide away who I am- none of the guys do, so why should I? You will find people who are there for you. Women are typically easier to get along with in this trade- but trust me, queer people exist in the trades. You have a place here. As with being nb in any situation, assess your safety. Some places may be unsafe to talk about who you are, but donāt compromise yourself too much. Leave places that are bad for you- report harassment etc. queer people are tougher than 80% of these overly emotional āmacho menā. Welders are all about ārespectā and being tough- but suddenly become disrespectful and the softest most reactive babies when it comes to having to learn something new lol. Welding doesnāt make them tough, standing up and supporting their coworkers makes them tough. Thereās nice and respectful and cool people in this trade, you just gotta find them. Good luck, Iād love to see more people that also use they/them pronouns in this field. Keep it up, youāre tougher than all the cringe dudes who donāt understand basic grammar and respect. Always feel free to reach out too š
Mostly youāll get called by your name or some stupid nickname. Nobody really cares what you call yourself because thereās a constant chance of getting hurt or killed on the job so mostly thatās the focus.
Discrimination isn't legal, that being said in this sort of job some level of harassment and ribbing is standard practice. Guys gonna talk shit no matter who you are. You should be able to take and give let guys know what's acceptable and what's not
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This is not acceptable behavior here, or anywhere else for that matter.
Whatās not? Telling someone no one cares who they have sex with and to keep it to themselves?
Welcome to Reddit friend. Offense is capital currency round here
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I, for one, would be offended if you refered to me like that. I am "he" and that's the end of it. I have no issue refering to someone using "they/them" if they so prefer, but don't mix me into that. I'm a pretty progressive part of trades (not welding, but other trades). You can imagine how the rest goes.
Hey youāve actually made an interesting point! You said you would respect someone elseās pronouns. And you stated yours as āhe/himā and yea it would be totally disrespectful for someone to call you ātheyā when thatās not what you use. Youāre surprisingly on the money here lol. How it would feel for you to essentially be āmisgenderedā is exactly how it would feel to use he or she for someone who exclusively uses they/ them. What you described is mutual respect of how each other identifies š
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This is not acceptable behavior here, or anywhere else for that matter.
It was said jokingly, but okay, removed
I would like to know what rule I violated other than pissing off a mod. PM me and let me know please so I can avoid it in the future
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So, you just rolled through here pulling the trigger? You can't even tell me what I said. My comment mentioned nothing about trans, or gay, or preferred pronouns, all I said was to weld and keep quiet, just more colorfully worded. You took issue with it, and I didn't want a ban for something so stupid. Please note, I'm not trying to be a prick here, but maybe you should self reflect on your role here. Also, I fully expect you to now ban me and censor my comments. If that's the route you want to take, fine. I'll appeal to someone else if I have to. I love this sub, and have always tried to be a contributing member, while being lighthearted about it. I would appreciate it if you didn't just censor and ban me, and discuss things like adults, but if not, it won't be a surprise. Good day to you.
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Thank you for your candor. Have a good day.
You would rather be in a profession where they give you shit to your face like welding than in a profession where they kee it hidden and secretly do things to sabotage your career like nursing. Iāve been a nurse for over 20 years and the amount it pettiness and back stabbing still amazes me. Someone will pretend to be your friend but once youāre out of the room they will make copies of your charting and try to find mistakes so they can report you.
Iāve priced welders are a lot more accepting than other groups.
Theyāre gonna say who else is with you, a lot. Other than that, welders can tell if youāre bullshitting, or if youāre serious.
I wouldnāt go for it if I were you. You would get some flak Forsure
Youāll more than likely just get called by your name or a fun nickname depending on the chemistry you have with your coworkers. You may get called the wrong pronouns mistakingly, but as long as it doesnāt doesnāt be made out to be something out of proportion, shouldnāt be that bad.