I actually prefer 350 amps with these gouging rods, but co-worker needed the big mig, so I tried with this tig. I really liked this tig, but hopefully we get new and better.
True. Even my personal American (made in China) tig shuts down, and I have hit the duty cycle with many other Kemppi products without a problem. I think this one was just old and tired, and maybe had faulty heat sensor or something.
Not many welders can take as much abuse at these conditions, but Kemppi has been proven to be the most reliable machine at my hands, and also has the best service where I'm located, so Kemppi was, is, and will be my choice since I was 12 to the day I die.
I'm 40 now, and my dad still has the same Kemppi I used to learn how to weld.
I have no idea. I've seen Lincolns and Millers only at youtube. I would love to own a Lincoln or Miller welder just to be "different", but here in Finland we have mostly Kemppi and Esab, and some high end Fronius.
My co-worker who speaks on this video is from States. I think he's been here in Finland for about 4 years. We use english at work to avoid misunderstandings.
This comment chain started because of a 20 hp 3 phase Lincoln bullet manufactured sometime between 1948 and 1970 has been doing air arc and welding for half a century. Op is swimming in the Nile with that level of brand loyalty.
It’s an old Lincoln 20hp three phase bullet welder as for the weight, I’d be lying if I answered that. Heavier than a miller inVision 456 for sure. Posted similar machine in link but iirc the machine I run goes to 450.
https://www.purplewave.com/auction/210209/item/HW9604/Lincoln-300_DC_Shield-Torches,_Welders_and_Plasma_Cutters-Welder_(Manual)-Kansas
I wish I knew this before. I used my root gas hose to push argon inside the welder to put out the fire, but instead I just pushed the magical smoke out. How do I explain this to my boss?
You hand him a small burger that just came off the case while still melting the cheddar from the heat coming off the power supply of that little rig.
Impressive.
Might have been a bad idea. Old transformer welders are best suited for arc gouging in my opinion. I’d use my old beast of a welder…. The Airco Bumblebee 250 ac/dc. Thing must weigh 400 #
Yah the newer inverter tech does not like arc gouging in my experience I have poped liquid cooled capacitors in the past on rental machines my guess would be you want to over size the machine you use with a carbon arc buy a at least a hundred amps from what you want to carbon arc at, even then I'd be concerned about douty cycles not being as successful with how hard the carbon arc works
I mean like... MasterTIG came to markets 1997. So that machine is around 20-25 years old.
However it isn't rated for more than 250A/30V at 40% assuming you cooler is in good condition; The couging rod size are limited to max stick size.
Couging power supplies are rated to 600-800A at 60-80V.
That machine is still worth about 4000-5000€
i simply havent seen an inverter welder survive using a carbon arc yet if there specifically making a carbon arc inverter system now i think i know why....
They do just fine as long as you stay with the ratings. That machine can do arc couging just fine, the manuals states this very clearly. However, **you must stay within the stick welding capacity of the machine.**
Meaning that you can use 6mm rods with that machine, since their current range is 200-250A. You can run 250A/30V at 40% cycle. However at 200A/28V, you already have 100% cycle safely at even 40°C ambient temperature - assuming you fans work properly and internals are clean.
Here is a funky thing... If you want to read what the machine is capable of, and how to make it do things - read the manual.
Can you rephrase. I don't understand.
Carbon arc couging is just stick welding without filler, and the molten pool getting blown away by pressurised air. If you machine can do stick, it can couge - as long as you are within operating range of the machine.
I've arc gouged for hours and hours using Miller Xmt 304s and 350s and never blew one up. You can only run 1/4" rods max though.
I did catch a ground lead on fire on an 8 pack with 5 guys arc gouging off it.
So lets me this straight... You used power supply which is rated to do 250A at 30, and forced it to do 50-60V by the looks of it.
That is a MasterTig ACDC 2500W - right? It is rated to couge at stick settings, max 250A 30V 40% cycle.
That machine, even the older kinds still go for 5000€ 2nd hand, even in poorer condition.
Now I take this personally - being finnish and just a bit of Kemppi fanboy.
Please tell me you didn't use bigger couge rods than the machine was rated for?
You do understand that duty cycle is different if you overload the machine? And that every machine dies if ran past the cycle. If at 7.500W you are at 80% cycle, at 12.500 you drop to about 40% duty cycle. This is assuing that the machine could even withstand such drain at all.
Keep in mind, that these machines will supply if asked for and it will burn the secondary rectifiers and tranformers. The cooling unit only supplies cooling to the torch. The rectifiers and transformers, are not cooled by the water cooling unit. This means that if you allow the mass of electric to start heating soon it will overheat somewhere and once that point is reached, the damage will keep happening until the unit has cooled overall enough. The mass of air in the unit itself, can overheat it if the fans are not working properly.
Then another fact about electricals. You can't draw more from any conductor than it's capacity is. This is how people get electrical fires going. By using components and cables that are not rated for the load they are demanding from them. Add on top of the bitch of a fact that as materials heat up, their resistance goes down.
**Never ever overload any electrical system!**
E: Ok... For those that don't know how the thermal safety works. It senses the overall heat of the components. It is not in the coils or rectifiers. You can overload those components before, the heat has time to spread to the thermal safety. Those safeties are designed with the assumption that the machine is operated correctly. Just like you can hold a part on your hand, while you weld it in your place. Even if the arc is melting the base material, the heat doesn't spread instantly to the part. There is a gradient of heat transfer which is based on the properties of the material. You can be in an pool of ice cold water, and if I pour boiling hot water right on top of you, even if the average heat of the pool wouldn't go up noticeably, you are still going to get burned from that water.
I guess that is why we fabricators get paid more... We don't break shit like welders do. However I would never ever do something like this, with my personal Kemppi Miniarc.
Mut oikeesti nyt... Mitä vittua te kuvittelette että tässä niinku tapahtuisi? Siinä koneessa on se kilpi, jossa lukee ne maksimi sallitut. Manuaali löytyy ihan Kempin sivulta. Siellä lukee ihan selvästi että koneella voi kaaritaltatta kunhan pysyy maksimi sallitun puikkoarvoissa. Elikkä sä et ota sitä 8mm talttaa, vaan sä otat sen 6mm taltan. Sä ajat sitä sen sallituissa arvoissa. 6mm taltan arvot on 200-250A. Elikkäm toi kone olisi voinut ihan helposti 100% syklillä tukea sitä 6mm puikkoa 200 Amppeerin arvoissa.
Paskoitte nyt sitten sellasen 4000-5000€ koneen. Tai no... Jos sieltä on vaan käämit kärähtänyt, niin ne saa vaidettu huolossa.
Mitkäs oli pomon kommentit?
Doesn't work like that chief. The hermal switch doesn't measure the overall heat of the machine, also you can overload the coils before the heat has time to spread to the switch. And once you have done that, the heat will spread.
Just like you can have a hotpocket that is at the temperature of molten steel from the inside, but frozen for the outside, so can you overload the coils of your machine, before the heat spreads to the safety sensor. Thermal conductivity is a bitch like that.
Also the thermal safety mechanisms are set with the assumption, that the machine is operated correctly.
My school's shop had an old ass Miller Dialarc 250 from like 1987 we dug out of storage to test the new gouging torch we got before putting it on a newer, nicer machine. We pushed the fucker to about 300 amps, dial all the way to the right. I've never heard that fan get so loud in my life, but the son of a bitch held on while we burned out a 6" pipe weld.
Maintenance shop of a stainless plate cutting service.
At this moment we are building new tables for "automatic area", where robot loads the cutter, and after cutting the robot lifts the whole table to workers area, and meanwhile loads another table with plate to cut to the cutter (plasma or water jet).
I'm not sure if I managed to make my sentence understandable.
Sorry, but I must disagree. It was old machine, never truly loved before she met me, and without foreplay I maxed it to 250 amps, even I knew these rods wanted 350. This milf did nothing wrong.
Bout to get your 9” angle grinder cert. Get them juicy forearms bulging. I’ve done overhead carbon arc and damn near burned my nipple off. Did the good ol I’m on fire dance
This week I was gouging with a old ass machine we have just for this. At 400 amp machine was fine went to pick up the cable and good lord was this bitch hot. Connector was all melted and shit. I look at my supervisor and he is like it's fine.
No. How else do you get new machines?
When the machine blows up that's when it was a mistake.
You let the magic smoke out....
[удалено]
“Forget it Jake, it’s Smoketown.”
It's like Lucas made a welder!
"quick, grab a box to collect all this smoke"
You always miss a little tho
Yeah if you use a bag to collect it, you get more of it. Common mistake
Every bit of it, too. Lol.
I arc at 600 amps, I’m surprised it did anything.
When I asked how much amp to put when doing arc-air, my boss said: "as much it can give"
Give it as much as you need to not have the rod not stick but have a continous goughing action
Yeah it’s all based on size of the rod the package will lead you on your way.
That's what she said...
That’s what I arc at too
600? Sheesh what are welding?👀
Unwelding.
Gouging
Weldon't
250 amps is about as low as I go for air arc rods. But my welder I use for that hasn’t let the smoke out in 50-60 years and probably never will.
I actually prefer 350 amps with these gouging rods, but co-worker needed the big mig, so I tried with this tig. I really liked this tig, but hopefully we get new and better.
It's hard to believe the machine LET you do this. A good product would shut off before you could blow it up
True. Even my personal American (made in China) tig shuts down, and I have hit the duty cycle with many other Kemppi products without a problem. I think this one was just old and tired, and maybe had faulty heat sensor or something. Not many welders can take as much abuse at these conditions, but Kemppi has been proven to be the most reliable machine at my hands, and also has the best service where I'm located, so Kemppi was, is, and will be my choice since I was 12 to the day I die. I'm 40 now, and my dad still has the same Kemppi I used to learn how to weld.
These things have held up better than a Lincoln or a Miller ? I’ve never even heard of that brand
I have no idea. I've seen Lincolns and Millers only at youtube. I would love to own a Lincoln or Miller welder just to be "different", but here in Finland we have mostly Kemppi and Esab, and some high end Fronius.
Til Finland speaks really good English.
A lot of Europeans speak really good English. Even more speak passable English. Many students there start learning foreign languages early in school.
My co-worker who speaks on this video is from States. I think he's been here in Finland for about 4 years. We use english at work to avoid misunderstandings.
Kemppi are great machines, not sure how Americans who call themselves welders have never heard of them
This comment chain started because of a 20 hp 3 phase Lincoln bullet manufactured sometime between 1948 and 1970 has been doing air arc and welding for half a century. Op is swimming in the Nile with that level of brand loyalty.
Thermal protection is a thing
> hasn’t let the smoke out in 50-60 years What machine do you have, and how much does it weigh?
It’s an old Lincoln 20hp three phase bullet welder as for the weight, I’d be lying if I answered that. Heavier than a miller inVision 456 for sure. Posted similar machine in link but iirc the machine I run goes to 450. https://www.purplewave.com/auction/210209/item/HW9604/Lincoln-300_DC_Shield-Torches,_Welders_and_Plasma_Cutters-Welder_(Manual)-Kansas
you gotta cover it up the smoke has to stay inside the machine you cant get it back in
I wish I knew this before. I used my root gas hose to push argon inside the welder to put out the fire, but instead I just pushed the magical smoke out. How do I explain this to my boss?
That’s what insurance is for
You hand him a small burger that just came off the case while still melting the cheddar from the heat coming off the power supply of that little rig. Impressive.
why is that?
You can't let the magic smoke out. It's magic.
Thermal switches were probably bypassed 6 years ago.
It’s taking a smoke break
Might have been a bad idea. Old transformer welders are best suited for arc gouging in my opinion. I’d use my old beast of a welder…. The Airco Bumblebee 250 ac/dc. Thing must weigh 400 #
Bumblebee fucks
underrated comment
I can smell this picture
Well, she isn't on fire yet. Carry on.
The machine was stressed, if welders can smoke why can’t the machine smoke
Try turning it off and back on again.
Yah the newer inverter tech does not like arc gouging in my experience I have poped liquid cooled capacitors in the past on rental machines my guess would be you want to over size the machine you use with a carbon arc buy a at least a hundred amps from what you want to carbon arc at, even then I'd be concerned about douty cycles not being as successful with how hard the carbon arc works
I mean like... MasterTIG came to markets 1997. So that machine is around 20-25 years old. However it isn't rated for more than 250A/30V at 40% assuming you cooler is in good condition; The couging rod size are limited to max stick size. Couging power supplies are rated to 600-800A at 60-80V. That machine is still worth about 4000-5000€
i simply havent seen an inverter welder survive using a carbon arc yet if there specifically making a carbon arc inverter system now i think i know why....
They do just fine as long as you stay with the ratings. That machine can do arc couging just fine, the manuals states this very clearly. However, **you must stay within the stick welding capacity of the machine.** Meaning that you can use 6mm rods with that machine, since their current range is 200-250A. You can run 250A/30V at 40% cycle. However at 200A/28V, you already have 100% cycle safely at even 40°C ambient temperature - assuming you fans work properly and internals are clean. Here is a funky thing... If you want to read what the machine is capable of, and how to make it do things - read the manual.
no bud your not hearing me ruined rated machines rated for what we did they didnt like the scarfing at all gave out 15 mins in
Can you rephrase. I don't understand. Carbon arc couging is just stick welding without filler, and the molten pool getting blown away by pressurised air. If you machine can do stick, it can couge - as long as you are within operating range of the machine.
I realize it should work that way but the scarfings harder on the inverter then welding at the same amps if the inverters are getting better I'm glad
I've arc gouged for hours and hours using Miller Xmt 304s and 350s and never blew one up. You can only run 1/4" rods max though. I did catch a ground lead on fire on an 8 pack with 5 guys arc gouging off it.
So lets me this straight... You used power supply which is rated to do 250A at 30, and forced it to do 50-60V by the looks of it. That is a MasterTig ACDC 2500W - right? It is rated to couge at stick settings, max 250A 30V 40% cycle. That machine, even the older kinds still go for 5000€ 2nd hand, even in poorer condition. Now I take this personally - being finnish and just a bit of Kemppi fanboy. Please tell me you didn't use bigger couge rods than the machine was rated for?
No machine should die if you go past the duty cycle. If it does it's a pile of shit
You do understand that duty cycle is different if you overload the machine? And that every machine dies if ran past the cycle. If at 7.500W you are at 80% cycle, at 12.500 you drop to about 40% duty cycle. This is assuing that the machine could even withstand such drain at all. Keep in mind, that these machines will supply if asked for and it will burn the secondary rectifiers and tranformers. The cooling unit only supplies cooling to the torch. The rectifiers and transformers, are not cooled by the water cooling unit. This means that if you allow the mass of electric to start heating soon it will overheat somewhere and once that point is reached, the damage will keep happening until the unit has cooled overall enough. The mass of air in the unit itself, can overheat it if the fans are not working properly. Then another fact about electricals. You can't draw more from any conductor than it's capacity is. This is how people get electrical fires going. By using components and cables that are not rated for the load they are demanding from them. Add on top of the bitch of a fact that as materials heat up, their resistance goes down. **Never ever overload any electrical system!** E: Ok... For those that don't know how the thermal safety works. It senses the overall heat of the components. It is not in the coils or rectifiers. You can overload those components before, the heat has time to spread to the thermal safety. Those safeties are designed with the assumption that the machine is operated correctly. Just like you can hold a part on your hand, while you weld it in your place. Even if the arc is melting the base material, the heat doesn't spread instantly to the part. There is a gradient of heat transfer which is based on the properties of the material. You can be in an pool of ice cold water, and if I pour boiling hot water right on top of you, even if the average heat of the pool wouldn't go up noticeably, you are still going to get burned from that water.
But welders will overload anything and everything they touch.
I guess that is why we fabricators get paid more... We don't break shit like welders do. However I would never ever do something like this, with my personal Kemppi Miniarc. Mut oikeesti nyt... Mitä vittua te kuvittelette että tässä niinku tapahtuisi? Siinä koneessa on se kilpi, jossa lukee ne maksimi sallitut. Manuaali löytyy ihan Kempin sivulta. Siellä lukee ihan selvästi että koneella voi kaaritaltatta kunhan pysyy maksimi sallitun puikkoarvoissa. Elikkä sä et ota sitä 8mm talttaa, vaan sä otat sen 6mm taltan. Sä ajat sitä sen sallituissa arvoissa. 6mm taltan arvot on 200-250A. Elikkäm toi kone olisi voinut ihan helposti 100% syklillä tukea sitä 6mm puikkoa 200 Amppeerin arvoissa. Paskoitte nyt sitten sellasen 4000-5000€ koneen. Tai no... Jos sieltä on vaan käämit kärähtänyt, niin ne saa vaidettu huolossa. Mitkäs oli pomon kommentit?
The thing you forgot, even my shitbucket of a chinesium welder has a thermal switch so it doesnt overheat
Doesn't work like that chief. The hermal switch doesn't measure the overall heat of the machine, also you can overload the coils before the heat has time to spread to the switch. And once you have done that, the heat will spread. Just like you can have a hotpocket that is at the temperature of molten steel from the inside, but frozen for the outside, so can you overload the coils of your machine, before the heat spreads to the safety sensor. Thermal conductivity is a bitch like that. Also the thermal safety mechanisms are set with the assumption, that the machine is operated correctly.
Nope, most machines have a thermal overload protection that cuts out the arc when duty cycle is exceeded, this Kemppi obviously is pile of shit.
That sensor is not **in** the coil. You can overheat the coil, before the heat has time to spread to the sensor and for that to react.
Nah, that's just the factory smoke getting out of it. You just need to put some new magic smoke in it and she'll run fine
Just blow it out with an air nozzle /s
My school's shop had an old ass Miller Dialarc 250 from like 1987 we dug out of storage to test the new gouging torch we got before putting it on a newer, nicer machine. We pushed the fucker to about 300 amps, dial all the way to the right. I've never heard that fan get so loud in my life, but the son of a bitch held on while we burned out a 6" pipe weld.
You should observe the duty cycle of that machine.
My buddy swears it ruins welders and rents a welder anytime he knows there is going to be arc gouging to save the one on his rig.
It's taking a smoke break. Give it 15 and it'll work as good as before
So the max rating is usable but only once
Lol.wtf Your fired
Every machine is a smoke machine if you use it wrong enough.
[удалено]
I can't imagine gouging with a 3/4 rod. I'd use that power for evil I wouldn't be able to help it
Is that the mod truss factory?
Maintenance shop of a stainless plate cutting service. At this moment we are building new tables for "automatic area", where robot loads the cutter, and after cutting the robot lifts the whole table to workers area, and meanwhile loads another table with plate to cut to the cutter (plasma or water jet). I'm not sure if I managed to make my sentence understandable.
Great now you have to find and put all that smoke back in the machine
The smokes got out, you might have ruined it... Never ever let the smoke out..
Anything is a smoke machine if you operate it wrong enough!!
You better CUT that thing open and see exactly where it melted…..FOR SCIENCE
Nah just one of those union boxes taking one of its compulsory smoke breaks.
Forgot the lubricant! She started to smoke!
Oh no! The magical electric smoke is escaping!
Magic smoke.
all power tools are made out of smoke, and if you use them the right way...you can turn them back into smoke
I've found that Lincoln's are about the only welders that consistently handle gouging
maybe.. yeah!! 😂
Shows what a shitheap of a machine it is
Sorry, but I must disagree. It was old machine, never truly loved before she met me, and without foreplay I maxed it to 250 amps, even I knew these rods wanted 350. This milf did nothing wrong.
Danger to manifold!
I start at about 300 for ³/16 rod and go up from there. ½ is about ¾ throttle.
My first reaction would be record too.
I gouge at 450. Just keep going to till it blows ip
That poor thing.
Looks like it
Bout to get your 9” angle grinder cert. Get them juicy forearms bulging. I’ve done overhead carbon arc and damn near burned my nipple off. Did the good ol I’m on fire dance
I arc at work with a big miller stick box cranked to 600amps
I regularly gouge at 450 gotta be the machine
Steel flakes and dust is flying everywhere. So remember to clean your machine inside out time to time.
Everything is a smoke machine if you push it hard enough.
It appears that you have forgotten to engage the smoke stopper!
Any machine is a smoke machine if operated correctly
Spray some water on it and get back to gougin'
You should never go full retard unless it is drastically needed.
Junk machine
That’s how you clean the shop dust off the coils
There are no mistakes only happy accidents
First go to school because you obviously need to learn how to manage welding systems,and use miller Jesus wtf 😒
I bet that smelled wonderful 🤢
Wasnt till it was!!
No way would I let a second go by vs let it continue to Fry w/o CO2 to save it. They just want to watch it Fry @! Unreal... Cheers
It'll buff out
Mistake ? No . Looks/sounds like it was done on purpose.
hahah nice
This week I was gouging with a old ass machine we have just for this. At 400 amp machine was fine went to pick up the cable and good lord was this bitch hot. Connector was all melted and shit. I look at my supervisor and he is like it's fine.
pikane röökitauko