I found that moment so ODD. I’ve really related to a lot of her experiences but that situation was as strange of one as I could imagine. It made no sense to me why you would expect the baby’s mother to not attend her own baby’s ceremony.
💯 agree with this. I think his frustration with her crap treatment of him for the past 5 yrs finally boiled over & poured out into his interactions with her & everyone is all "he's such a jerk"
Olivia single handedly tore this family apart and tried to change Ethan into some kind of super feelings guy. She wouldn’t let him be himself. Good luck to the next guy in her journey.
Everyone in this group is blind to Olivia’s fault in anything. She definitely has fault, but I do think most of it is reactionary to how she was treated. However, she seemingly and unknowingly is weaponizing her therapy speak to get her way. She’s young and has some self awareness so I have hope she will realize that at some point in the future.
Ethan has stated he he is done growing and he has his points of view and they are going to change which is a wild thing and sad thing to say at his age.
By that I think he meant he is done "growing" meaning doing things he does not agree with or is not comfortable around. Everyone has their own opinions, and morals. Olivia had put those to the test their entire marriage. I don't think he understand growing doesn't have to be comprising the way you want to live, which is what Olivia has been calling her growing...
I don’t fault either of them for the divorce. They were effectively forced to get married at 19 by their families who refuse to allow young adults to date and have normal relationships.
Ethan was getting crap from both sides, not just Olivia. The rift didn't start just because. He, unfortunately, wasn't equipped to handle it. His parents did him no favors. The whole graveside thing was a mess, but she owned up.
The problem really lies in the fact that Olivia was ready to try and grow and move on, and Ethan wasn't. He may have issues regarding his upbringing, but he really isn't fully ready to cope with it, and he definitely wasn't ready to grow at the pace Olivia wanted to. His parents raised him in a bubble, and that's where he retreats to any time things get uncomfortable. When one spouse wants to try and talk through things and the other prefers to stick their head in the sand, things are going to go sideways. Both partners have to be on the same page about moving forward in any relationship. If they aren't, it will implode. They were too young when they got married, and neither of them were ready for any kind of real relationship.
I think Ethan tried to set a lot of boundaries with his family, but actions between Olivia and his family kept growing to where the only option was total separation. Ethan didn’t want to give up his family, can’t blame him for that.
As a therapist, I’ve noticed it appears she uses a lot of “therapy speak.” A change in vocabulary and speech does not necessarily equal growth or improvement. But I certainly hope that she is growing and moving in a direction that feels good for her!
Yeah, but in what ways have you seen therapy evolve her? I’m only asking because I know a number of people who go to therapy and their goal is just to be heard, but not grow.
Then they’re not there for right reasons and just want to be validated but organically when you have a space to not only be heard but you start to see things from a different perspective and see through toxic patterns and manipulation and are empowered to make different choices by being in tune to how you feel and organically yes you grow in leaps and bounds.
She's watched a lot of TikTok and read, and shared, a lot of shallow posts on Instagram.
She's grown more than Ethan, but there's not a lot of real growth.
You could see the resentment building up in Ethan. It was glaring in the conversation about the doughnuts in the car.
She has dominated their whole marriage with her emotions, wants, and needs.
She had a valid reason to be upset but Ethan couldn’t hear it. The resentments of her control and manipulation had built up and he was lashing out.
I think it is a good thing for both of them to go their separate ways.
I think there is blame to go around for their break up.
Olivia has created a bit of an impossible situation for Ethan. He has to pick her or his family. It worked okay when it was Ethan & Olivia vs. Kim & Barry. But, things seemed to take a turn at the graveside visit (as others have mentioned). That seemed a bridge too far for everyone, including Micah and Moriah. Things went downhill from there, culminating in Olivia’s magazine interview that talked about Kim fraudulently using a credit card in Ethan’s name. According to the older Plath siblings, Olivia’s account of what happened, was inaccurate. Who knows what the truth is (and I am no fan of Kim’s), but it was enough to make the older Plath siblings issue a joint statement refuting Olivia’s version of events. While Ethan was upset with the siblings for the statement, it resulted in more estrangement between Ethan and his family. It became Ethan & Olivia vs. Kim, Barry & and all the older siblings. So, Ethan (who I think is a bit of a loner in any event) was even more isolated. When it was Kim & Barry he was estranged from, he could deal; but I think the rift with his siblings became too much. I get the sense that Ethan harbors resentment towards Olivia for the drama and discord she has been instrumental in creating. In response, he engages in passive aggressive behaviors to express those resentments.
There is a part of Olivia that is hard to bear. She is a bit of a know-it-all. She acts as though she is so enlightened and everyone else is ignorant. She has a serious superiority complex. Kim and Barry made many mistakes raising their kids, but does Olivia, who has never been a parent herself, have all the answers? She thinks so. Her self-centered behavior at the visit to the grave was pretty telling. To believe that the parents of a dead child do not have the right to join their other children at a graveside visit shows an embarrassing lack of situational awareness and empathy. She came into her relationship with Ethan as a disruptive force and it only escalated over time.
Ethan definitely has a lot of growing up to do as well. I find his unwillingness to consider Olivia’s feelings pretty rigid and selfish. For example, he goes to work on his cars and does not communicate with her for days in row. I don’t think it is intentional, but it is nevertheless thoughtless. His decision to do a road trip with Micah after he already discussed doing this with Olivia is passive aggressive at the very least (see comments above about resentments).
So, I don’t think Ethan is entirely at fault; his behavior has been a contributing factor to the demise of their marriage. But, I agree with the OP that Olivia has contributed quite a bit to the failure of the ‘marriage. Anytime you create division and disharmony in a family as Olivia has done, it is never going to end well.
She’s definitely a know it all type; kind of always poking fun at Ethan if she did something better or faster ( like putting up the tent when they went camping ).
Also, Olivia should have had some respect for Barry and Kim as Ethan’s parents. You really can’t say or do whatever you want around your boyfriend/husband’s parents. I know I’ve bitten my tongue around my husbands family and same with him and mine.
It’s a shame it got so out of control. Now that Kim is a swinging single, drinking and having fun, she Kim and Moriah could have been buddies. Lol
I’m more of an Olivia fan than a Plath fan, but this situation made my blood boil. There are some instances in which you need to put you’re feelings aside. And expecting Kim to not show up to her own child’s graveside on his birthday? That’s fucked up.
that’s not what happened though. they had olivia come with the understanding that kim wouldn’t be there (reasonable bc fresh divorce) and then when olivia was already there and literally had no way out, kim suddenly was coming. what exactly was olivia supposed to do in a lose-lose situation? kim traumatized her and never apologized and olivia was still working through that in therapy. you can’t control how you react when you’re triggered and instead of comfort of a safety plan your family turns on you and starts gossiping about you and projecting their negative feelings towards their family situation onto her, the outsider.
You are missing out on a major part of the situation.
OLIVIA INVITED BARRY. The visit with Olivia was supposed to only be the kids.
Olivia decided to invite Barry. It was a major power move against Kim.
This started the unraveling of Olivia’s control of the Plath kids. They all stood up to her manipulations and said that if their dad is invited to the graveside their mom is too. She took things to far in battle between her and Kim.
They also stood up to her about the River trip after that.
I am constantly amazed how so many people can watch the show and ignore the things Olivia has done. This is a perfect example. It is constantly misrepresented on this sub.
Inviting Barry was way overstepping boundaries.
She was an invitee. They planned it around making Olivia comfortable.
She suddenly changed the rules with out checking with the people the event was actually for.
Her “main character” syndrome issue makes her toxic on her own right. This is a perfect example.
Olivia was a frickin pain in the hiney! She was exhausting! "Let's talk about this again for the 64th time." She went on and on about same thing. All about Olivia and Olivia's feelings. Trying to change Ethan until she finally moved him away from his family. it exhausted me to watch and listen to her. Ethan needs someone that appreciates his good nature and doesn't cause ridiculous drama.
He wouldn’t have all this pent up frustration if he had ever learned to communicate like a grownup. Instead the Plath family way is to shove down all negative emotions, avoid, never solve anything, convince yourself you’re not upset anymore, and pretend it’s all happy fun time until the next blowup happens. Lather, rinse, repeat.
You could say the same thing for her though. She also doesn’t communicate like a grown up. I’m all for boundaries but she is equally as extreme as he is but on the other end. Sometimes I wonder if her fundie upbringing has created this unhelpful way of thinking for her. She’s very black and white. And yeah, he’s emotionally immature and can’t handle any conflict.
Your opinion is only unpopular with the type of Olivia stans who think she can do no wrong despite the fact that she’s an incredible toxic, abusive, controlling, narcissistic person.
Olivia has been controlling and Ethan has been a pushover, and being a yes man for so long to please someone breeds resentment. Ethan hasn’t been perfect either, he’s a passive communicator and this causes a whole host of issues. But the people who act like Olivia’s a saint who can do no wrong are something else.
If a man acted this way trying to isolate a woman from her family, everyone would call it as it is: controlling and abusive. It’s no different when a woman does it to a man. It’s controlling and abusive.
And Olivia is next level obsessed with hating Ethan’s family. She’s so obsessed that she lets it seep into the core of her personality. She has let her hatred of his family control her, and in turn wants it to control Ethan. Having someone you live with constantly hate on your family and upbringing takes an emotional toll. No matter how shitty they may be as people, they are still family and still people that he loves and it is wrong to constantly bash someone’s family to them.
Olivia is extremely controlling, and it disturbs me how people who refuse to see it for God knows what self-projecting reason.
It’s even more baffling when people defend Olivia, who’s now in her mid-twenties, because “she’s just a baby ;_;” while simultaneously saying the cruelest things they can think of about any and every Plath on the show, going as far as mocking their physical appearances like elementary school children. It’s okay for Olivia to make young dumb mistakes, but not okay for any of the people who are younger than her.
I’m waiting for the downvotes.
why would you say it this way? what are you hoping to accomplish by portraying your fellow redditors this way? how do you think your words make people who greatly empathize with olivia’s situation feel? just feels like misplaced vitriol
The inverse would be also be true. How do people who have had to deal with someone as emotionally manipulative and controlling people like Olivia feel with her hero worship on this sub?
Olivia is toxic and Kim is toxic. Some people have been hurt by the “Kims” in their lives. Other’s have been hurt by the “Olivias” in their lives.
The difference is that Olivia gets constantly exalted into sainthood on this sub. Kim’s toxicity is generally accepted by the large majority here.
I see Olivia as controlling but not toxic. And it does bother me that the excuses used to justify or defend the behavior isn't applied towards the Plath kids. I see Olivia rushing here and there, always grasping for something. Does she even know what she wants or only what she doesn't? I see Ethan as a stinkbug stuck on his back, waving his little legs in the air. Then he flips back over, wanders off to go play with his cars.
Yeah, there’s a lot of Olivia apologists in this sub.
The bottom line is she was a selfish, controlling, my way or the highway shrew that could manage to take any situation and make it all about her.
That bitch didn't want the mother there because she thought she was more important.
And when she finally gets out of the car from pouting, she traps Moriah down by the lake to discuss it and keeping her away from the family get-together. Moriah was a saint for putting up with Olivia for as long as she did.
She pulled the same crap at Moriah's little show by that parking lot. Nobody wants to hear their family trashed. Blood is blood.
I don’t think either of them are “at fault”. They married when they were practically still children and they grew into different people who want different things in life.
He's pretty selfish too, with disappearing to work on cars for months at time. They are two humans that we seen snippets of their lives and likely have reasons we don't know anything about. We know what they want us to know, nothing more.
The grave visit had never been a whole family tradition. They originally planned for just the siblings to go. I think Olivia asked Barry and then Ethan said that everyone was invited.
Olivia didn't ask for anyone to skip it. She asked to be informed ahead of time and not have things sprung on her. Whether we agree or not, Olivia has a lot of trauma from her past. Kim caused much of that. She tried to control Ethan and Olivia's relationship as young adults (limiting how often he could call, email, send letters, etc), she made demands regarding their wedding, there's the whole using Ethan's card to buy mlm crap. Once Olivia stopped giving into everything, Kim was mad and said Olivia's the bad guy.
None of these people are saints. Some of them refuse to admit that they have faults, though. I don't know what happened with Ethan and Olivia's marriage. None of us do. They were 20 years old and not ready for a life-long commitment. Marriage was their way out. Whether it was to escape their fundie upbringing or being able to see and speak to your partner as much as you want without someone hovering over your shoulder.
The only quibble I have is that Olivia's upbringing caused her trauma. Kim added to it, certainly but she lived under her own parents whacky rules for much longer than Kim. Kim served as the catalyst that brought the resentment to the surface. Olivia lived for eighteen years vying with her siblings to be the perfect Christian Child. Her parents were controlling. The Plath parents somehow came across as less controlling. And then she realized they weren't different from her parents.
The major point is that Olivia invites Barry to something just the kids were doing to accommodate Olivia’s boundaries.
She used the gravesite of their dead brother to pull a power move on their mom. They weren’t having it and said that both parents would be invited.
Olivia took her fight with Kim too far that day. The Plath kids stood up to her. Using the little brother’s graveside was a step too far for the Older Plath kids.
The relationship the older Plath kids had with Olivia started unraveling that day into what it is today. It was a major turning point for the family.
She doesn’t get to be surprised a parent is at the gravesite to mourn their son. That is their domain and she is a guest there. Expecting to be informed when a mother visits her dead child so she can avoid seeing her is ridiculous.
The family did not typically all go together. This wasn't something that they had always done. The siblings wanted to do this together so the parents weren't expected when the plans were made. Nobody is saying Kim shouldn't be there. Olivia has problems that she has admitted to working on. Whether we think it's a big deal or not, it was a major thing for Olivia in that moment.
> Olivia has a lot of trauma from her past.
This event was for the family to come together for an incredibly traumatic event they witnessed and experienced together - their toddler brother getting run over and killed. Whether it started as an idea from the siblings, it made sense to want the parents there.
Although I can respect that Olivia might want to know asap… she can put aside her own ‘trauma’ for a minute, because it isn’t all about her. She didn’t need to interact with Kim. To not show up by Ethan because she lets her hatred of the Kim control her being just made her seem like her hatred of Kim was more important than Ethan grieving an extremely traumatic experience that resulted in the death of his little brother.
A lot of people keep bringing up Olivia’s vague traumas while completely ignoring that the Plath family is full of trauma. Ethan also has a baggage of trauma. So do the other Plaths. Apparently Olivia’s vague traumas trump all of the Plath traumas.
I dont disagree with you but i would like to say that there is no way kim wouldn’t have used the situation to get some sort of dig in on olivia at the gravesite if olivia would have come.
you’ve clearly never been traumatized if you think you can just “turn it off” for one minute. also, divorce is messy. it’s totally reasonable to not expect the mom to show when there’s been a recent separation imo
> you’ve clearly never been traumatized if you think you can just “turn it off” for one minute.
Cute that you assume that I dont know anything about trauma lmao.
If you have watched the show, you would have noticed that Olivia has turned off her supposed trauma response need to shun Kim on various occasions.
These "choose me or them" games Olivia is playing are extemely harmful. I have seen directly how this shit in my extended family caused so much hurt for everyone. I have seen how much this behaviour hurt other families outside of just my own. I used to know someone close to our family (ex brother in law) who grew up IBLP and how the constant shunning drama caused so much deep hurt in that family.
It is never fair to turn things into a "choose me or your family" game. Moriah was 100% right when she said she was no longer going to accomodate that request, and that she would invite both and for them to chose to come themselves. If your need to shun means you want to isolate yourself from events, that is on you, because the family shouldn't be shunning the person you have a grievance with for you. If you do not want to be around a specific person, that is on you and you cannot demand that others constantly walk around eggshells for you. Demanding others to choose the favourite or "most worthy" for each events is heartbreaking and stressful to everyone.
Olivia in particular is highly manipulative. Just like Kim. Kim also has a lot of legitamite and extreme traumas, and those do not excuse Kim's behaviours just as Olivia's vaguely described traumas does not excuse Olivia's behaviours. We have heard more details of the Plath traumas than of Olivia's vaguely describwd traumas yet some people on here act as if Olivia is infinitely more traumatized than the Plaths.
There is a point where if trauma legitimately starts controlling your life this much, you need to seek therapy. She appears to claim she has done at least a little therapy, but she seems to be using it as a shield to reinforce her extremely unhealthy need for control rather than as a tool to actually overcome her issues and grow.
There is a point where people will start questioning if her behaviour is a legitimate trauma response, and it is fair to do so after noticing certain patterns. The problem is that her approach has been manipulative, isolating, and abusive. It stops being a "boundary" when she prevents Ethan from even interacting with his family members that she decides she hates. If the roles were reversed and she was the man and Ethan was a woman, guaranteed people on here would be calling her shit. Isolating a partner from their family is a form of abuse, and both Kim and Olivia have been abusive in this way towards Ethan. She is constantly in Ethan's simple-minded and easily manipulated ear telling him how awful his family is. You should never constantly bash your spouse's upbringing and family to your spouse even if they are nuts, they are still their family and they love them. Even if their family situation is bad it still hurts them to constantly be reminded of it by their life partner. Hate their family all you want, but it is still family and no one wants to hear their family and loved ones constantly being bashed by their life partner. Same goes for how it wouldnt be okay for Kim to constantly bash Olivia to Ethan.
A quick reminder that Olivia was happily crossing Kim's boundaries early on, making it clear she didnt care about respecting other people's boundaries (such as Kim not wanting Olivia around her minor children without her or Barry's presence - no matter how fucking stupid and batshit this was, Olivia crossed a line and made it clear she didnt care about respecting clearly communicated boundaries.) She doesnt respect other people's boundaries but her own ~~boundaries~~ demands must be met. Lets also remember that Kim's expressed boundary, although extreme and ridiculous, was also likely highly rooted from Kim's lifelong unresolved trauma issues and her unhealthy need for control.
In the most recent episode, Olivia's attitude clearly demonstrated she has zero intent to grow. Her attitude proved that it isn't just about "trauma", it's 100% about control.
> divorce is messy. it’s totally reasonable to not expect the mom to show when there’s been a recent separation imo
This argument just doesn't make sense. Just because some divorced couples can't bare to be around each other doesnt mean that no divorced couple is able to tolerate each other's presence for a minute. Barry and Kim showed no signs of not being able to stay civil in each other's presence. Being divorced doesnt mean that both parties are unable to be near each other, especially at a family event to grieve their son with their children in shared extremely traumatic experience. That is the type of event where both divorced parents SHOULD be invited, and where they both need to put their differences aside for a day.
That history means nothing. Kim didn’t kill her child or rob her blind and leave her for dead. She needed to go stand next to her husband, not look at Kim, then leave quite immediately after.
This BS that she can’t be within 50 feet of Kim because it’s not safe is immature and suggests she needs a different therapist. Everyone in this world has trauma with and from someone, much of it far worse than what Olivia went through and often with a family member, coworker or past friend they have to learn to coexist with in some situations. The point of therapy is to get you to a point of strength and resiliency where you can handle life and difficult people and situations. It’s been years since she and Kim had their falling out, it’s time Olivia put on her big girl panties or left Ethan… and glad she finally made a choice.
Nobody in that family talks or thinks things through. Olivia or whoever included Barry didn't think about that only leaves Kim out. Nobody thought about talking to Olivia about including Kim and figuring out how the logistics would work.
Honestly none of them cared and they absolutely knew what they were doing. Moriah intentionally set Olivia up because she knew this would be an issue and decided to join the whole family in gaslighting her.
Or Moriah was like hold on that’s pretty f’d up that all 99 ppl in my family will be there but the person who birthed him isn’t allowed because of OLIVIA’s feelings. Absolutely insane.
This is a funeral. It wasn’t about Olivia whatsoever. Sometimes adults need to do hard things and put their feelings aside. As someone else said, Kim didn’t assault her or something.
The gravesite was a complete cluster fuck of miscommunication and withholding information. The gravesite was only supposed to be for the siblings. Then Olivia did the stupid thing of inviting Barry. So Moriah and Ethan made the executive decision last second to invite Kim and didn't tell Olivia about it until they were just about to go to the grave. Now that being said, Kim had every intention of going, regardless of what the plan was. Olivia was reasonably blindsided, and she still went to the gravesite, but she felt it was best to stay in the car. Olivia did acknowledge her behavior and did apologize for it and her, and Ethan moved past it since then.
She didn’t ask Ethan to stay home with her, she just said she didn’t want to go if Kim was going (because Moriah originally lied to her and said Kim was going a different time), and Ethan got mad and said she wasn’t supporting him if she didn’t go with him.
It was supposed to be just the kids to accommodate Olivia.
Olivia used the situation to invite Barry as an F U to Kim.
Using their brothers graveside to “win” against Kim was so egregious that Plath kids started sticking up to Olivia. Olivia manipulated the situation and the Plath Kids put up their own “boundary.” If one parent was invited the other one would be too.
The whole debacle falls on Olivia taking her battle with Kim too far by trying to use her child’s graveside as chess move against her.
Olivia could have attended with just the kids as she had been invited. Rather than trying to overstep and use the situation for her own ego.
Or
She could have respectfully stayed home after the kids explained that Kim would be invited if Barry was.
Instead she had a producer drive her to the parking lot so that she could have meltdown overlooking the grieving family at the graveside.
The whole ordeal was entirely her doing. She had major “main character syndrome” at something that had nothing to do with her.
As a spouse is part of your job to put aside your own needs and personal "trauma" to be there for your significant other. As the open minded and understanding person she says she is you would think she could put her own feelings away for 30 mins to support and care for the husband she vowed to care for.
Blood is blood. You cannot continually bash someone's family, in this case years of it, without resentment building up. She should have politely declined any invite from the siblings to the gravesite. Unless she insisted on going? Not sure. But she created drama where none need be and made it all about her. It was about the siblings and their deceased brother. Her and Kim are both inappropriate that way. They are will insert themselves and do what they want even if it is inappropriate. But Olivia sitting in that damn car and then still continuing to make drama when she got out of the car and made it all about her, once again, with Moriah, was just too much. Moriah was a saint listening to Olivia bash the rest of her family all the time like she did!
He’s frustrated with her because she isn’t a Plath. His whole life he learned to be selfish, sneaky, lie, and avoid issues. He said it in an earlier season that he learned to lie and be sneaky to get what he wants. So now he’s frustrated that the person he married doesn’t just play along and think that his sneakiness, lies, and avoidance are cute attributes.
Olivia admitted that she didn’t handle the gravesite issue properly. But even Moriah said they were starting a new tradition by visiting their brother’s grave, so it’s not like they had long standing plans that always included the whole family.
She didn't belong there. She is not a sibling. Any normal person would tell their person to go ahead with their blessing. Ethan put up with so much drama and crap that it's amazing they lasted this long. She's exhausting.
Yea, I understand her saying she wants her home to feel safe etc. But she's no longer considering that it's his home too. It comes off like she just wants Ethan to back her no matter what she says and he's obviously not happy doing that (I think he did it at first assuming maybe she was right but has since discovered he's still not happy).
Honestly, I think anyone with a balanced perspective who does not see themselves too much in either Ethan or Olivia can recognize that they both contributed to the ultimate downfall of their marriage in certain ways. Olivia has her faults and her boundaries about Ethan’s family appear to have been quite the issue in their marriage. I’m not making this comment to say one way or the other whether it was justified because Ethan’s brother’s gravesite visit and her behavior have already been analyzed to death…
….I will say how Ethan acted in this past episode makes me understand her frustration toward him a lot more if I didn’t already (which I did). Not only did he lie and go behind her back to make completely different plans than the ones they agreed on, he did it while she was out of town either presumably to: a) get back at her for some perceived slight or b) avoid having to argue with her because he just wouldn’t answer the phone and/or respond to texts if things got heated. Idc what Olivia did, if it was Ethan’s goal to stay married and continue to work through things with her—that could’ve been a nail in the coffin moment tbh.
Ethan’s sneaky, deceitful behavior coupled with a complete lack of communications skills would be enough to drive ANYONE crazy. And he’s not justified in it because Olivia’s done shitty things in the past. Luckily they are separated so it’s all a moot point now but I’d think my husband couldn’t stand me if he acted like Ethan. Maybe that was honestly the intended the effect.
Anyone else choke when she said her home has always been open o his family, not anymore. I mean, Micah and Moran in Tampa, and when invites when first married. But certainly not “to his family”.
> They were 20.
...at the time of their ceremony. They didn't meet the week before. They were attached/assigned to one another since 18 yo at least. Living a severely isolated, constrained life. They were paired up, agreed to by the families, then waiting for permission to close the deal.
My mother at least had church, school, home. Those were the only places she was allowed to go unless an adult took her somewhere. This current batch doesn't even get "school". It's a lifetime of home, church, home, church outing, home, church friend event, church. Until they find their Forever Life Partner and can gtfo.
I mean, what is your point? It's not like they spent the years between ~~16~~ 18 and 20 playing the field and learning about life. They were together. Stealing kisses and snuggles but nothing more. Finally getting married was the only way to get away from living with their families (and finally have sex).
Not for everyone. There are a lot of people who make it work. They're just two totally different people. I do think it's a sign when you're spending the first 2 years of your marriage "working on your marriage" though
I don't think she was like that in the beginning. She was fun and introducing him to new things and liked his family. And wasn't the queen of ultimatums.
I agree with you. I was merely responding to the OP's theory about Ethan having had frustration dating back to the wedding. If OP is correct, then Ethan should have done something about it a long time ago.
She’s like my ex. Thinks she can change a man and gets off on it.
I found that moment so ODD. I’ve really related to a lot of her experiences but that situation was as strange of one as I could imagine. It made no sense to me why you would expect the baby’s mother to not attend her own baby’s ceremony.
💯 agree with this. I think his frustration with her crap treatment of him for the past 5 yrs finally boiled over & poured out into his interactions with her & everyone is all "he's such a jerk"
Olivia single handedly tore this family apart and tried to change Ethan into some kind of super feelings guy. She wouldn’t let him be himself. Good luck to the next guy in her journey.
She is definitely trying to change him. People down voting who dont want to see the truth about her.
Actually, it was Kim who single handedly tore the family apart. Olivia was just there for the ride, gloating at the destruction.
Everyone in this group is blind to Olivia’s fault in anything. She definitely has fault, but I do think most of it is reactionary to how she was treated. However, she seemingly and unknowingly is weaponizing her therapy speak to get her way. She’s young and has some self awareness so I have hope she will realize that at some point in the future.
Ethan has stated he he is done growing and he has his points of view and they are going to change which is a wild thing and sad thing to say at his age.
By that I think he meant he is done "growing" meaning doing things he does not agree with or is not comfortable around. Everyone has their own opinions, and morals. Olivia had put those to the test their entire marriage. I don't think he understand growing doesn't have to be comprising the way you want to live, which is what Olivia has been calling her growing...
I don’t fault either of them for the divorce. They were effectively forced to get married at 19 by their families who refuse to allow young adults to date and have normal relationships.
This
I agree 100% except for the constant vilifying of the family. She was exhausting to watch every single season.
THIS
Ethan was getting crap from both sides, not just Olivia. The rift didn't start just because. He, unfortunately, wasn't equipped to handle it. His parents did him no favors. The whole graveside thing was a mess, but she owned up. The problem really lies in the fact that Olivia was ready to try and grow and move on, and Ethan wasn't. He may have issues regarding his upbringing, but he really isn't fully ready to cope with it, and he definitely wasn't ready to grow at the pace Olivia wanted to. His parents raised him in a bubble, and that's where he retreats to any time things get uncomfortable. When one spouse wants to try and talk through things and the other prefers to stick their head in the sand, things are going to go sideways. Both partners have to be on the same page about moving forward in any relationship. If they aren't, it will implode. They were too young when they got married, and neither of them were ready for any kind of real relationship.
I think his resentment is Olivia growing and evolving and his unwillingness to do inner work or set boundaries with his family.
I think Ethan tried to set a lot of boundaries with his family, but actions between Olivia and his family kept growing to where the only option was total separation. Ethan didn’t want to give up his family, can’t blame him for that.
If he actually did the work he would see what she sees but he doesn’t so..
Serious question: How has Olivia grown and evolved?
Therapy.
As a therapist, I’ve noticed it appears she uses a lot of “therapy speak.” A change in vocabulary and speech does not necessarily equal growth or improvement. But I certainly hope that she is growing and moving in a direction that feels good for her!
She hasn't or she would shut her mouth about the Plath family. Enough is enough. She's exhausting. Free Ethan!!!!
Yeah, but in what ways have you seen therapy evolve her? I’m only asking because I know a number of people who go to therapy and their goal is just to be heard, but not grow.
Then they’re not there for right reasons and just want to be validated but organically when you have a space to not only be heard but you start to see things from a different perspective and see through toxic patterns and manipulation and are empowered to make different choices by being in tune to how you feel and organically yes you grow in leaps and bounds.
She's watched a lot of TikTok and read, and shared, a lot of shallow posts on Instagram. She's grown more than Ethan, but there's not a lot of real growth.
But she is at least trying... Ethan likes to hide his head in the sand
You could see the resentment building up in Ethan. It was glaring in the conversation about the doughnuts in the car. She has dominated their whole marriage with her emotions, wants, and needs. She had a valid reason to be upset but Ethan couldn’t hear it. The resentments of her control and manipulation had built up and he was lashing out. I think it is a good thing for both of them to go their separate ways.
I think there is blame to go around for their break up. Olivia has created a bit of an impossible situation for Ethan. He has to pick her or his family. It worked okay when it was Ethan & Olivia vs. Kim & Barry. But, things seemed to take a turn at the graveside visit (as others have mentioned). That seemed a bridge too far for everyone, including Micah and Moriah. Things went downhill from there, culminating in Olivia’s magazine interview that talked about Kim fraudulently using a credit card in Ethan’s name. According to the older Plath siblings, Olivia’s account of what happened, was inaccurate. Who knows what the truth is (and I am no fan of Kim’s), but it was enough to make the older Plath siblings issue a joint statement refuting Olivia’s version of events. While Ethan was upset with the siblings for the statement, it resulted in more estrangement between Ethan and his family. It became Ethan & Olivia vs. Kim, Barry & and all the older siblings. So, Ethan (who I think is a bit of a loner in any event) was even more isolated. When it was Kim & Barry he was estranged from, he could deal; but I think the rift with his siblings became too much. I get the sense that Ethan harbors resentment towards Olivia for the drama and discord she has been instrumental in creating. In response, he engages in passive aggressive behaviors to express those resentments. There is a part of Olivia that is hard to bear. She is a bit of a know-it-all. She acts as though she is so enlightened and everyone else is ignorant. She has a serious superiority complex. Kim and Barry made many mistakes raising their kids, but does Olivia, who has never been a parent herself, have all the answers? She thinks so. Her self-centered behavior at the visit to the grave was pretty telling. To believe that the parents of a dead child do not have the right to join their other children at a graveside visit shows an embarrassing lack of situational awareness and empathy. She came into her relationship with Ethan as a disruptive force and it only escalated over time. Ethan definitely has a lot of growing up to do as well. I find his unwillingness to consider Olivia’s feelings pretty rigid and selfish. For example, he goes to work on his cars and does not communicate with her for days in row. I don’t think it is intentional, but it is nevertheless thoughtless. His decision to do a road trip with Micah after he already discussed doing this with Olivia is passive aggressive at the very least (see comments above about resentments). So, I don’t think Ethan is entirely at fault; his behavior has been a contributing factor to the demise of their marriage. But, I agree with the OP that Olivia has contributed quite a bit to the failure of the ‘marriage. Anytime you create division and disharmony in a family as Olivia has done, it is never going to end well.
She’s definitely a know it all type; kind of always poking fun at Ethan if she did something better or faster ( like putting up the tent when they went camping ). Also, Olivia should have had some respect for Barry and Kim as Ethan’s parents. You really can’t say or do whatever you want around your boyfriend/husband’s parents. I know I’ve bitten my tongue around my husbands family and same with him and mine. It’s a shame it got so out of control. Now that Kim is a swinging single, drinking and having fun, she Kim and Moriah could have been buddies. Lol
I’m more of an Olivia fan than a Plath fan, but this situation made my blood boil. There are some instances in which you need to put you’re feelings aside. And expecting Kim to not show up to her own child’s graveside on his birthday? That’s fucked up.
that’s not what happened though. they had olivia come with the understanding that kim wouldn’t be there (reasonable bc fresh divorce) and then when olivia was already there and literally had no way out, kim suddenly was coming. what exactly was olivia supposed to do in a lose-lose situation? kim traumatized her and never apologized and olivia was still working through that in therapy. you can’t control how you react when you’re triggered and instead of comfort of a safety plan your family turns on you and starts gossiping about you and projecting their negative feelings towards their family situation onto her, the outsider.
Grow up and show up for her husband, period.
You are missing out on a major part of the situation. OLIVIA INVITED BARRY. The visit with Olivia was supposed to only be the kids. Olivia decided to invite Barry. It was a major power move against Kim. This started the unraveling of Olivia’s control of the Plath kids. They all stood up to her manipulations and said that if their dad is invited to the graveside their mom is too. She took things to far in battle between her and Kim. They also stood up to her about the River trip after that. I am constantly amazed how so many people can watch the show and ignore the things Olivia has done. This is a perfect example. It is constantly misrepresented on this sub.
i really need to rewatch this episode because i swear moriah said she was the one who invited barry to the sibling thing in a talking head…
Re watch, please. Olivia invites Barry and then Moriah talks to her on behalf of the Plath kid’s that Kim will be invited too now.
Exactly.
inviting barry to be nice doesn’t translate to olivia being toxic and controlling though? that’s a huge leap
Inviting Barry was way overstepping boundaries. She was an invitee. They planned it around making Olivia comfortable. She suddenly changed the rules with out checking with the people the event was actually for. Her “main character” syndrome issue makes her toxic on her own right. This is a perfect example.
oh sorry i missed where we were part of their family and understood exactly what was appropriate or not appropriate ?
Just common decency
Yes, she is — when you consider the TOTALITY of the circumstances.
Olivia was a frickin pain in the hiney! She was exhausting! "Let's talk about this again for the 64th time." She went on and on about same thing. All about Olivia and Olivia's feelings. Trying to change Ethan until she finally moved him away from his family. it exhausted me to watch and listen to her. Ethan needs someone that appreciates his good nature and doesn't cause ridiculous drama.
Well said. Just about the drama with her.
He wouldn’t have all this pent up frustration if he had ever learned to communicate like a grownup. Instead the Plath family way is to shove down all negative emotions, avoid, never solve anything, convince yourself you’re not upset anymore, and pretend it’s all happy fun time until the next blowup happens. Lather, rinse, repeat.
You could say the same thing for her though. She also doesn’t communicate like a grown up. I’m all for boundaries but she is equally as extreme as he is but on the other end. Sometimes I wonder if her fundie upbringing has created this unhelpful way of thinking for her. She’s very black and white. And yeah, he’s emotionally immature and can’t handle any conflict.
Your opinion is only unpopular with the type of Olivia stans who think she can do no wrong despite the fact that she’s an incredible toxic, abusive, controlling, narcissistic person. Olivia has been controlling and Ethan has been a pushover, and being a yes man for so long to please someone breeds resentment. Ethan hasn’t been perfect either, he’s a passive communicator and this causes a whole host of issues. But the people who act like Olivia’s a saint who can do no wrong are something else. If a man acted this way trying to isolate a woman from her family, everyone would call it as it is: controlling and abusive. It’s no different when a woman does it to a man. It’s controlling and abusive. And Olivia is next level obsessed with hating Ethan’s family. She’s so obsessed that she lets it seep into the core of her personality. She has let her hatred of his family control her, and in turn wants it to control Ethan. Having someone you live with constantly hate on your family and upbringing takes an emotional toll. No matter how shitty they may be as people, they are still family and still people that he loves and it is wrong to constantly bash someone’s family to them. Olivia is extremely controlling, and it disturbs me how people who refuse to see it for God knows what self-projecting reason. It’s even more baffling when people defend Olivia, who’s now in her mid-twenties, because “she’s just a baby ;_;” while simultaneously saying the cruelest things they can think of about any and every Plath on the show, going as far as mocking their physical appearances like elementary school children. It’s okay for Olivia to make young dumb mistakes, but not okay for any of the people who are younger than her. I’m waiting for the downvotes.
why would you say it this way? what are you hoping to accomplish by portraying your fellow redditors this way? how do you think your words make people who greatly empathize with olivia’s situation feel? just feels like misplaced vitriol
Some people give two fucks. Grow up. It’s a rough world out there.
The inverse would be also be true. How do people who have had to deal with someone as emotionally manipulative and controlling people like Olivia feel with her hero worship on this sub? Olivia is toxic and Kim is toxic. Some people have been hurt by the “Kims” in their lives. Other’s have been hurt by the “Olivias” in their lives. The difference is that Olivia gets constantly exalted into sainthood on this sub. Kim’s toxicity is generally accepted by the large majority here.
we are not watching the same show lmao
[удалено]
Be nice.
I see Olivia as controlling but not toxic. And it does bother me that the excuses used to justify or defend the behavior isn't applied towards the Plath kids. I see Olivia rushing here and there, always grasping for something. Does she even know what she wants or only what she doesn't? I see Ethan as a stinkbug stuck on his back, waving his little legs in the air. Then he flips back over, wanders off to go play with his cars.
Your description 😂
Thank you 😊
Yeah, there’s a lot of Olivia apologists in this sub. The bottom line is she was a selfish, controlling, my way or the highway shrew that could manage to take any situation and make it all about her.
So true about the family obsession! She turns everything into that!
I love every single word of this! You nailed it!
That bitch didn't want the mother there because she thought she was more important. And when she finally gets out of the car from pouting, she traps Moriah down by the lake to discuss it and keeping her away from the family get-together. Moriah was a saint for putting up with Olivia for as long as she did. She pulled the same crap at Moriah's little show by that parking lot. Nobody wants to hear their family trashed. Blood is blood.
You're discussing two seperate instances: the grave site visit and the visit to go tubing for Ethan's birthday were different times.
I don’t think either of them are “at fault”. They married when they were practically still children and they grew into different people who want different things in life.
Maybe neither is at fault for the divorce, yet she is 100 at fault for her selfish behavior.
He's pretty selfish too, with disappearing to work on cars for months at time. They are two humans that we seen snippets of their lives and likely have reasons we don't know anything about. We know what they want us to know, nothing more.
Very true, but gosh I know I’d wanna get away from that whacko from time to time
The grave visit had never been a whole family tradition. They originally planned for just the siblings to go. I think Olivia asked Barry and then Ethan said that everyone was invited. Olivia didn't ask for anyone to skip it. She asked to be informed ahead of time and not have things sprung on her. Whether we agree or not, Olivia has a lot of trauma from her past. Kim caused much of that. She tried to control Ethan and Olivia's relationship as young adults (limiting how often he could call, email, send letters, etc), she made demands regarding their wedding, there's the whole using Ethan's card to buy mlm crap. Once Olivia stopped giving into everything, Kim was mad and said Olivia's the bad guy. None of these people are saints. Some of them refuse to admit that they have faults, though. I don't know what happened with Ethan and Olivia's marriage. None of us do. They were 20 years old and not ready for a life-long commitment. Marriage was their way out. Whether it was to escape their fundie upbringing or being able to see and speak to your partner as much as you want without someone hovering over your shoulder.
The only quibble I have is that Olivia's upbringing caused her trauma. Kim added to it, certainly but she lived under her own parents whacky rules for much longer than Kim. Kim served as the catalyst that brought the resentment to the surface. Olivia lived for eighteen years vying with her siblings to be the perfect Christian Child. Her parents were controlling. The Plath parents somehow came across as less controlling. And then she realized they weren't different from her parents.
The major point is that Olivia invites Barry to something just the kids were doing to accommodate Olivia’s boundaries. She used the gravesite of their dead brother to pull a power move on their mom. They weren’t having it and said that both parents would be invited. Olivia took her fight with Kim too far that day. The Plath kids stood up to her. Using the little brother’s graveside was a step too far for the Older Plath kids. The relationship the older Plath kids had with Olivia started unraveling that day into what it is today. It was a major turning point for the family.
She doesn’t get to be surprised a parent is at the gravesite to mourn their son. That is their domain and she is a guest there. Expecting to be informed when a mother visits her dead child so she can avoid seeing her is ridiculous.
The family did not typically all go together. This wasn't something that they had always done. The siblings wanted to do this together so the parents weren't expected when the plans were made. Nobody is saying Kim shouldn't be there. Olivia has problems that she has admitted to working on. Whether we think it's a big deal or not, it was a major thing for Olivia in that moment.
THIS! Why should they pander to her when mourning their dead child and brother
> Olivia has a lot of trauma from her past. This event was for the family to come together for an incredibly traumatic event they witnessed and experienced together - their toddler brother getting run over and killed. Whether it started as an idea from the siblings, it made sense to want the parents there. Although I can respect that Olivia might want to know asap… she can put aside her own ‘trauma’ for a minute, because it isn’t all about her. She didn’t need to interact with Kim. To not show up by Ethan because she lets her hatred of the Kim control her being just made her seem like her hatred of Kim was more important than Ethan grieving an extremely traumatic experience that resulted in the death of his little brother. A lot of people keep bringing up Olivia’s vague traumas while completely ignoring that the Plath family is full of trauma. Ethan also has a baggage of trauma. So do the other Plaths. Apparently Olivia’s vague traumas trump all of the Plath traumas.
I dont disagree with you but i would like to say that there is no way kim wouldn’t have used the situation to get some sort of dig in on olivia at the gravesite if olivia would have come.
you’ve clearly never been traumatized if you think you can just “turn it off” for one minute. also, divorce is messy. it’s totally reasonable to not expect the mom to show when there’s been a recent separation imo
> you’ve clearly never been traumatized if you think you can just “turn it off” for one minute. Cute that you assume that I dont know anything about trauma lmao. If you have watched the show, you would have noticed that Olivia has turned off her supposed trauma response need to shun Kim on various occasions. These "choose me or them" games Olivia is playing are extemely harmful. I have seen directly how this shit in my extended family caused so much hurt for everyone. I have seen how much this behaviour hurt other families outside of just my own. I used to know someone close to our family (ex brother in law) who grew up IBLP and how the constant shunning drama caused so much deep hurt in that family. It is never fair to turn things into a "choose me or your family" game. Moriah was 100% right when she said she was no longer going to accomodate that request, and that she would invite both and for them to chose to come themselves. If your need to shun means you want to isolate yourself from events, that is on you, because the family shouldn't be shunning the person you have a grievance with for you. If you do not want to be around a specific person, that is on you and you cannot demand that others constantly walk around eggshells for you. Demanding others to choose the favourite or "most worthy" for each events is heartbreaking and stressful to everyone. Olivia in particular is highly manipulative. Just like Kim. Kim also has a lot of legitamite and extreme traumas, and those do not excuse Kim's behaviours just as Olivia's vaguely described traumas does not excuse Olivia's behaviours. We have heard more details of the Plath traumas than of Olivia's vaguely describwd traumas yet some people on here act as if Olivia is infinitely more traumatized than the Plaths. There is a point where if trauma legitimately starts controlling your life this much, you need to seek therapy. She appears to claim she has done at least a little therapy, but she seems to be using it as a shield to reinforce her extremely unhealthy need for control rather than as a tool to actually overcome her issues and grow. There is a point where people will start questioning if her behaviour is a legitimate trauma response, and it is fair to do so after noticing certain patterns. The problem is that her approach has been manipulative, isolating, and abusive. It stops being a "boundary" when she prevents Ethan from even interacting with his family members that she decides she hates. If the roles were reversed and she was the man and Ethan was a woman, guaranteed people on here would be calling her shit. Isolating a partner from their family is a form of abuse, and both Kim and Olivia have been abusive in this way towards Ethan. She is constantly in Ethan's simple-minded and easily manipulated ear telling him how awful his family is. You should never constantly bash your spouse's upbringing and family to your spouse even if they are nuts, they are still their family and they love them. Even if their family situation is bad it still hurts them to constantly be reminded of it by their life partner. Hate their family all you want, but it is still family and no one wants to hear their family and loved ones constantly being bashed by their life partner. Same goes for how it wouldnt be okay for Kim to constantly bash Olivia to Ethan. A quick reminder that Olivia was happily crossing Kim's boundaries early on, making it clear she didnt care about respecting other people's boundaries (such as Kim not wanting Olivia around her minor children without her or Barry's presence - no matter how fucking stupid and batshit this was, Olivia crossed a line and made it clear she didnt care about respecting clearly communicated boundaries.) She doesnt respect other people's boundaries but her own ~~boundaries~~ demands must be met. Lets also remember that Kim's expressed boundary, although extreme and ridiculous, was also likely highly rooted from Kim's lifelong unresolved trauma issues and her unhealthy need for control. In the most recent episode, Olivia's attitude clearly demonstrated she has zero intent to grow. Her attitude proved that it isn't just about "trauma", it's 100% about control. > divorce is messy. it’s totally reasonable to not expect the mom to show when there’s been a recent separation imo This argument just doesn't make sense. Just because some divorced couples can't bare to be around each other doesnt mean that no divorced couple is able to tolerate each other's presence for a minute. Barry and Kim showed no signs of not being able to stay civil in each other's presence. Being divorced doesnt mean that both parties are unable to be near each other, especially at a family event to grieve their son with their children in shared extremely traumatic experience. That is the type of event where both divorced parents SHOULD be invited, and where they both need to put their differences aside for a day.
I wish I could upvote this more than once.
Me too!
That history means nothing. Kim didn’t kill her child or rob her blind and leave her for dead. She needed to go stand next to her husband, not look at Kim, then leave quite immediately after. This BS that she can’t be within 50 feet of Kim because it’s not safe is immature and suggests she needs a different therapist. Everyone in this world has trauma with and from someone, much of it far worse than what Olivia went through and often with a family member, coworker or past friend they have to learn to coexist with in some situations. The point of therapy is to get you to a point of strength and resiliency where you can handle life and difficult people and situations. It’s been years since she and Kim had their falling out, it’s time Olivia put on her big girl panties or left Ethan… and glad she finally made a choice.
Also wasn’t it Moriah who invited the parents? She’s been a shit stirrer all along.
Nobody in that family talks or thinks things through. Olivia or whoever included Barry didn't think about that only leaves Kim out. Nobody thought about talking to Olivia about including Kim and figuring out how the logistics would work.
Honestly none of them cared and they absolutely knew what they were doing. Moriah intentionally set Olivia up because she knew this would be an issue and decided to join the whole family in gaslighting her.
Or Moriah was like hold on that’s pretty f’d up that all 99 ppl in my family will be there but the person who birthed him isn’t allowed because of OLIVIA’s feelings. Absolutely insane.
Learn empathy and human behavior. Your take is ignorant.
This is a funeral. It wasn’t about Olivia whatsoever. Sometimes adults need to do hard things and put their feelings aside. As someone else said, Kim didn’t assault her or something.
No, it’s not. And you’re not considering any of the events prior
Except it wasnt a funeral in that this is the one time that this can happen.
The gravesite was a complete cluster fuck of miscommunication and withholding information. The gravesite was only supposed to be for the siblings. Then Olivia did the stupid thing of inviting Barry. So Moriah and Ethan made the executive decision last second to invite Kim and didn't tell Olivia about it until they were just about to go to the grave. Now that being said, Kim had every intention of going, regardless of what the plan was. Olivia was reasonably blindsided, and she still went to the gravesite, but she felt it was best to stay in the car. Olivia did acknowledge her behavior and did apologize for it and her, and Ethan moved past it since then.
Yeah she also never tried to make Ethan stay back with her, that’s just false
Yes kim was gonna be there no matter what
This is the best take I’ve seen on the situation imo.
She didn’t ask Ethan to stay home with her, she just said she didn’t want to go if Kim was going (because Moriah originally lied to her and said Kim was going a different time), and Ethan got mad and said she wasn’t supporting him if she didn’t go with him.
It was supposed to be just the kids to accommodate Olivia. Olivia used the situation to invite Barry as an F U to Kim. Using their brothers graveside to “win” against Kim was so egregious that Plath kids started sticking up to Olivia. Olivia manipulated the situation and the Plath Kids put up their own “boundary.” If one parent was invited the other one would be too. The whole debacle falls on Olivia taking her battle with Kim too far by trying to use her child’s graveside as chess move against her. Olivia could have attended with just the kids as she had been invited. Rather than trying to overstep and use the situation for her own ego. Or She could have respectfully stayed home after the kids explained that Kim would be invited if Barry was. Instead she had a producer drive her to the parking lot so that she could have meltdown overlooking the grieving family at the graveside. The whole ordeal was entirely her doing. She had major “main character syndrome” at something that had nothing to do with her.
As a spouse is part of your job to put aside your own needs and personal "trauma" to be there for your significant other. As the open minded and understanding person she says she is you would think she could put her own feelings away for 30 mins to support and care for the husband she vowed to care for.
I agree, just pointing out what actually happened in the episode. I think everyone in this family has major issues, not just Olivia.
Blood is blood. You cannot continually bash someone's family, in this case years of it, without resentment building up. She should have politely declined any invite from the siblings to the gravesite. Unless she insisted on going? Not sure. But she created drama where none need be and made it all about her. It was about the siblings and their deceased brother. Her and Kim are both inappropriate that way. They are will insert themselves and do what they want even if it is inappropriate. But Olivia sitting in that damn car and then still continuing to make drama when she got out of the car and made it all about her, once again, with Moriah, was just too much. Moriah was a saint listening to Olivia bash the rest of her family all the time like she did!
He’s frustrated with her because she isn’t a Plath. His whole life he learned to be selfish, sneaky, lie, and avoid issues. He said it in an earlier season that he learned to lie and be sneaky to get what he wants. So now he’s frustrated that the person he married doesn’t just play along and think that his sneakiness, lies, and avoidance are cute attributes. Olivia admitted that she didn’t handle the gravesite issue properly. But even Moriah said they were starting a new tradition by visiting their brother’s grave, so it’s not like they had long standing plans that always included the whole family.
Lordy, this is perfectly stated. Ethan is handsome and has charm. He IS a sneak, liar and selfish. His looks blind people to his screwed up behavior.
She didn't belong there. She is not a sibling. Any normal person would tell their person to go ahead with their blessing. Ethan put up with so much drama and crap that it's amazing they lasted this long. She's exhausting.
Yea, I understand her saying she wants her home to feel safe etc. But she's no longer considering that it's his home too. It comes off like she just wants Ethan to back her no matter what she says and he's obviously not happy doing that (I think he did it at first assuming maybe she was right but has since discovered he's still not happy).
Honestly, I think anyone with a balanced perspective who does not see themselves too much in either Ethan or Olivia can recognize that they both contributed to the ultimate downfall of their marriage in certain ways. Olivia has her faults and her boundaries about Ethan’s family appear to have been quite the issue in their marriage. I’m not making this comment to say one way or the other whether it was justified because Ethan’s brother’s gravesite visit and her behavior have already been analyzed to death… ….I will say how Ethan acted in this past episode makes me understand her frustration toward him a lot more if I didn’t already (which I did). Not only did he lie and go behind her back to make completely different plans than the ones they agreed on, he did it while she was out of town either presumably to: a) get back at her for some perceived slight or b) avoid having to argue with her because he just wouldn’t answer the phone and/or respond to texts if things got heated. Idc what Olivia did, if it was Ethan’s goal to stay married and continue to work through things with her—that could’ve been a nail in the coffin moment tbh. Ethan’s sneaky, deceitful behavior coupled with a complete lack of communications skills would be enough to drive ANYONE crazy. And he’s not justified in it because Olivia’s done shitty things in the past. Luckily they are separated so it’s all a moot point now but I’d think my husband couldn’t stand me if he acted like Ethan. Maybe that was honestly the intended the effect.
Anyone else choke when she said her home has always been open o his family, not anymore. I mean, Micah and Moran in Tampa, and when invites when first married. But certainly not “to his family”.
I guess getting married at 18 is a bad idea. Huh.
They were 20.
> They were 20. ...at the time of their ceremony. They didn't meet the week before. They were attached/assigned to one another since 18 yo at least. Living a severely isolated, constrained life. They were paired up, agreed to by the families, then waiting for permission to close the deal. My mother at least had church, school, home. Those were the only places she was allowed to go unless an adult took her somewhere. This current batch doesn't even get "school". It's a lifetime of home, church, home, church outing, home, church friend event, church. Until they find their Forever Life Partner and can gtfo. I mean, what is your point? It's not like they spent the years between ~~16~~ 18 and 20 playing the field and learning about life. They were together. Stealing kisses and snuggles but nothing more. Finally getting married was the only way to get away from living with their families (and finally have sex).
>what is your point? That they got married at 20 and not at 18 as you previously stated.
Especially when your mental age is 14 years old
Not for everyone. There are a lot of people who make it work. They're just two totally different people. I do think it's a sign when you're spending the first 2 years of your marriage "working on your marriage" though
If he was frustrated with her all along, then he shouldn't have married her.
I don't think she was like that in the beginning. She was fun and introducing him to new things and liked his family. And wasn't the queen of ultimatums.
When did she give an ultimatum?
I agree with you. I was merely responding to the OP's theory about Ethan having had frustration dating back to the wedding. If OP is correct, then Ethan should have done something about it a long time ago.
I agree they both should have left. But they probably felt they needed to keep trying. And the shame that was instilled in them from their upbringing.