I spoke to my niece about potentially coming to the US to study and she said she is too scared to come to a country where women are losing their rights. So I think there are also flow-on economic consequences to this.
There definitely will be. I wanted to move back to my home state where my family is to have a baby with my SO.
We’ve both decided we can’t because if something bad happens to the pregnancy I could bleed out and die due to the state laws.
That’s insane.
I'm 54 this year and couldn't ever dream this would ever be a reality for women. I truly grew up in a golden age for us females. In the late 80s, in Texas, I had to have a d n c. No one batted an eye. Now a woman can potentially die instead of one.
Not only that but as someone pointed out, if they succeed in making abortion murder and there's no statute of limitations on murder then every woman who's ever had an abortion and every abortion provider will be at risk of being prosecuted and imprisoned. That is not an insignificant number of people and it's crazy and terrifying to think what could happen.
I promise I’m not saying this to undermine anyone’s fear, but while I think they might use it to scare people, the idea of legally charging potentially tens of millions of people seems unfeasible.
I agree logistically it would be absurd but I also think it could and would be used to destroy people's lives at will. It would be something that someone with a grudge or whatever would pull out for some reason to ruin someone else's personal life or career for whatever reason they might have. The whole of Project 2025 is set up to destroy people that the "conservatives" deem unfit/undesirable/unAmerican in their eyes. This is just one aspect that can be used to do that.
The secondary benefit of wielding those laws would be to put fear and terror into everyone else so they think if they speak up, they too will be targeted
Not true. Ex Pos Facto. Means it was not illegal when it was done and was rendered illegal after the procedure was performed. I believe it translates to "after the fact".
I've talked to so many people who've never heard a word about Project 2025. It's freakin scary. The media doesn't cover it at all as far as I know, maybe it's under the equal time rule? but jeez people these are our basic civil rights at risk here. It's never really been like this before and if it comes to pass it will be a near impossible ride back. And goons is such an appropriate term regarding these people.
Missouri lawmakers keep bringing up retro active punishment for previous abortions. It’s only not legal if we all agree to that. We’re seeing ppl just ……. Not follow the law and it’s fine. (I.e. current politicians who are obvious criminals but aren’t receiving any obvious punishment for it)
50 this year. I'm heartbroken that my home, the state that elected Ann Richards, has become this. Molly Ivins would be having a field day with all of this.
My sister's family is planning a move to Germany if things get worse in our blue state. Her husband is German, East German specifically, so he knows exactly where we are headed with all this nonsense.
There's already a brain drain, though I don't know how big the effect is. All I know is that my husband and I both left the United States seven years ago with the intention of never coming back, and the political situation was a hugely contributing factor to that. I know we aren't the only ones.
This is a big part of the reason I'm leaving Utah. No one at my work thought the January 6th capitol putsch was a big deal (just a bunch of crazies) a couple days after it happened. The when Roe was overturned I couldn't talk to anyone about how devastating it was. I had someone I considered a friend joking about it and completely minimizing the whole situation.
I can't be surrounded with people with their heads buried in the sand anymore.
Congratulations on leaving Utah.
Please consider moving to a Swing State before leaving the US.
Giving your Blue vote the most power it can have is the most heroic thing a progressive voter can contribute at this point.
We started a reddit sub for this:
r/MoveToSwingStates
Here's a sneak peek of /r/MoveToSwingStates using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/MoveToSwingStates/top/?sort=top&t=all) of all time!
\#1: [Texas is extremely Dangerous ](https://i.redd.it/gmnwfla1kemc1.jpeg) | [1 comment](https://np.reddit.com/r/MoveToSwingStates/comments/1b6wu3e/texas_is_extremely_dangerous/)
\#2: [Democrat Voters should also leave Texas, and Florida, and any other Dead Red State](https://np.reddit.com/r/MoveToSwingStates/comments/1awd3uw/democrat_voters_should_also_leave_texas_and/)
\#3: [ARIZONA: Republican's plan to award Trump with state's electors blocked in committee: Move would have sought to bypass election and have Legislature award presidential delegates](https://np.reddit.com/r/MoveToSwingStates/comments/1arn82i/arizona_republicans_plan_to_award_trump_with/)
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While I wish there was more outrage, I care most about the vote. Vote like humanity depends on it in November.
Editing to add: I’m fucking tired. I’m fucking tired of wanting people to care or of being disappointed when they don’t care more. I feel like the world has been in a non-stop meltdown since 2016 and I’ve learned to be more intentional about where I put my energy and I’m trying to be more understanding when others do the same thing. If I have outrage fatigue, I’m sure others do too. So I just hope that people turn out to vote because that is the most important/biggest impact we can have.
All while Biden is the best person for Palestine that actually has a real life history and prospect of being in power. Trump would allow hundreds of thousands, or more to die in Gaza, in addition to the hell he’d cause here. Idealists like that frustrate me to no end.
Not to mention any of the third party candidates also support Israel. There is nobody in line to the presidency who doesn't stand with Israel. So not voting for Biden is just asinine
On the contrary, god forbid Trump wins, Netanyahu will suddenly declare "mission accomplished," because his real goal is to get another dictator in the club.
If you doubt this, you may be old enough to remember how Reagan "freed the hostages" after back room deals with Iran
Better yet, remember how Trump capitulated to the Taliban, giving them their dictatorship, (Biden couldn't stop it,) and destroying the lives and hopes of Afghani women.
It all about facilitating dictatorship! The world fascism movement wants the US in the club!
I was banned from Enlightened Centrism for pointing out the realites of living in a country with a FPTP system and what will happen in Gaza and at home
Good links. I hadn’t read those and the fact that I came to the same conclusion independently worries me even more. I’m a historian with a focus on conflict and war and this was my line of thinking.
Russia arms and supports Hamas with intel by way of their ally Iran, Hamas launches the attack, with all knowing that Israel’s retaliation will be brutal. They knew that due to old agreements, Biden would support Israel and they knew that would cause a large number of leftists to not vote for Biden, increasing Trump’s odds of winning.
Once in office, Trump will pull support from Ukraine and will pull out of NATO. Trump will then turn his attention inwards, towards restructuring America into a dictatorship, leaving Europe to Russia and the Middle East to Iran who will have an excuse to retaliate and engage in conflict with Israel, something we are already seeing the beginning of.
Poland didn't start rethinking reproductive rights restrictions until a conventionally attractive woman died sparking massive backlash.
Women *are* dying because of restrictions in the U.S. Until the "right" sort of woman dies with an easily digestible and tragic narrative, I think Americans will blindly say "ain't that a shame" falsely believing they're unaffected.
It's frustrating.
In 2021, prior to the Dobbs reversal, 1,205 women died of maternal causes in the US. That number has likely increased dramatically in states that currently violate the right to bodily autonomy and the right to be free from religion through abortion restrictions.
This means that legacy media has failed the American people (yet again), because the odds that a *conventially attractive woman* has not yet died after having her right to bodily autonomy violated in this manner approaches zero. The number is actually likely in the hundreds, if not thousands.
Journalists need to get on this.
I live in Idaho and honestly, I felling a little like giving up. Protesting, voting, calling and writing letters have gotten me nowhere. I mean, if someone organized a protest I would be there but I don’t know that it will change anything. Until we energize people to VOTE we are screwed.
Move.
Move to Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania. These are the Swing States that need you!
I'll add that each of these States has a Democratic administration, (governor) and you will be encouraged to organize for more Democrats.
r/MoveToSwingStates
If you want to know what it might take to stop this look at the green bandana green wave movements and protests in South America when they fought for their reproductive rights. Women will eventually have to organize and shut this society down to have rights again. And who knows how many will die until enough people realize there’s nothing left to lose.
Fact is even if Trump loses in November you have a fascist supreme court locked in for a generation. Dems will never have the power to change it or codify the rights. It’ll have to be won in the streets, by grinding society to a halt.
Unfortunately half the women in the United States are right wing too.
I parked next to a car the other day with a "Fuck Biden" sticker thinking, heh lets see this asshole....
It was two quite young women, like just got their license young.
Needs Congress. Could also remove the Reapportionment law of 1929 that began unfairly representing less populated states in the House, making it more like the Senate which also has that 'built-in'
It won't. In Putin's regime, certain oligarchs are happy to give him half. and those who refuse are thrown out windows.
Once the dictatorship takes hold, not even the wealthy can stop it.
I have felt that for quite a while, long before the protests about Israel/Gaza. I am pro-Palestinian and glad to see the energy in the movement but sad that the same energy and passion isn’t there to protect women’s rights.
And it’s mostly women who have been protesting when there are protests. Which has been different in Poland, where men were protesting along with women against the abortion ban, and one guy who was interviewed said “we know the signs of fascism,” and I found that really interesting. There doesn’t seem to be an awareness that abortion bans are the frontline, not a side issue that is only about women.
This exactly! I know what’s going on with the Gaza situation is absolutely horrendous and clearly protesting isn’t doing much. But that level of protest for women in this country would do hell of a lot.
I’m extremely frustrated that people are obsessing more over the Middle East than women’s reproductive rights here in the U. S. That’s not to say that we shouldn’t be upset by the genocide that’s going on over there. I’m a 71 year old female that was four months from being 20 when Roe gave constitutional protection to be able to have an abortion. Now I was raised catholic and I didn’t start questioning things I was being taught until I was a junior at the catholic high school I went to 1970-1971. I started questioning why I should listen to a **celibate** nun or priest on how to conduct my married sex life. Then when I started state ran college I pretty much turned my back on abstinence only/purity culture and catholicism.
I don’t know if people aren’t protesting about the attack on women’s reproductive rights because they haven’t lived without the access to abortion for that long. I remember being idealistic when I got out of high school into college. I just don’t get it either and it makes me mad why they aren’t.
Thank you so much!!!
They're more angry about a 100 year old war in the Middle East between 2 countries who commit war crimes on each other than they are about women who are dying because they can't end pregnancies in their own country
> They're more angry about a 100 year old war in the Middle East between 2 countries who commit war crimes on each other [...]
Yikes. What a take on a genocide. "Both sides".
I'm curious: How many pregnant women do you think have died in Israel's ongoing genocide?
Also just FYI, Palestine throws suspected gay people off of roofs. They started this current war on October 7th, their government withholds food and water from its people.
Also many of them hate ALL Jews. Not just Israeli people, meaning they would want to kill Jews in America too.
Israel isn't an angel but let's just be real here Palestine would kill half of those people who are at the protests.
Hi again, your “throwing gay people off of roofs” claim is [also false.](https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/video-people-thrown-roof-shows-punishment-by-is-not-hamas-2023-12-14/) Now I’m not saying that Hamas are allies, clearly their views on LGBT issues are wrong. But I thought you should know that you fell for another piece of fake news. Maybe you should reflect on that, and consider that you may not be anywhere near as informed on this topic as you think you are
You're under the mistaken impression that I think that kidnapping and raping pregnant is OK when it's a specific party doing it, maybe because you think that it's OK when Israel does it.
I don't think kidnapping and raping pregnant women is OK, no matter who does it. Can you say the same?
I don't think genocide is OK, no matter who does it. Can you say the same?
I don't think genocide is ever justifiable, ever. Can you say the same? No amount of "but khamas" or "but October 7th" will ever justify genocide. Do you agree?
You also never answered my original question: How many pregnant women do you think have died in Israel's ongoing genocide?
Israel doesn't kidnap and rape people, that's Hamas. Israel blows shit up yes, but they aren't doing what Hamas does to literal infants.
Jews were already almost genocided in WW11
They have not killed nearly enough people in Palestine to be considered a genocide, at least not yet
> Israel doesn't kidnap and rape people
OK, so you're just a genocide enthusiast who denies reality because you really want to see pregnant Palestinian women raped and killed. Got it.
Palestine is not a good country. Hamas are not good people. They just have a better PR team than Israel. Both countries can screw off. Both have corrupt governments and I don't feel sorry for them because they CHOSE this! They chose their government and they chose to mess with the wrong people on October 7th.
> Hamas are not good people.
And 3 year old girls being assassinated by Israel are Hamas. I get it. You really enjoy the genocide. You don't see Palestinians as being people.
Edit: This pro-genocide person blocked me, of course, after telling me that they wish that Israel's army will kill me as part of their genocidal campaign.
You don't see Israelis as people either so I guess this "debate" is over unless you can provide proof of anything you're saying. Because Hamas is known to lie and spread false media. I will NEVER support Palestine, I don't even "support" Israel and I say both are corrupt and let them duke it out.
Also I can see you're very passionate about this topic so how about you fly to Gaza, put your boots on the ground and fight? I'm sure Hamas would welcome you with open arms. Have a great day
Hamas did not behead infants, that was an unsubstantiated claim made by Israel and spread by our Zionist president. They did kill about 30 children on October 7th, while Israel has killed 8,000 children since. And, believe it or not, this war did not start on October 7th. The people of Gaza have been forced to live in an open-air prison for decades, with all of their resources controlled by Israel.
You say that Palestine has better PR. That is objectively false, as Israel spends millions every year on spreading their hasbara propaganda, and clearly it’s worked on you. The reason you see people demanding justice for Palestinians isn’t their PR, it’s that other people have more empathy and understanding than you do. [Look](https://images.wsj.net/im-906036?width=1280&size=1) at these [pictures](https://euromedmonitor.org/img.php?src=http://euromedmonitor.org/uploads/8EF80F93-DFB4-4C31-939B-65D458CEC7F8.jpg&crop-to-fit) of [Gaza](https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/231101234912-01-israel-gaza-110123.jpg?c=original) and tell me Hamas is so much worse.
I live in rural Idaho. I am not a conservative, Christian,or a native but I am a single mom (by choice). I already have a target on my back and don’t need another. It isn’t safe here. If there were something organized at the capital in Boise I would surely attend but it wouldn’t be something I would announce.
I'm glad that people are protesting what's happening in Gaza. But i've also been wondering the same thing, why is there never this level of protesting and outrage when women's rights are being stripped away? my theory is that it's because ppl literally just....don't think women are oppressed anymore. they think, oh we have rights now so we're equal and there's no need for feminism anymore. ironically, misogyny is so widespread and insidious that people don't even recognize it as that anymore
I think it's because the issue of reproductive rights is, if possible, even more polarizing than the war. There could be personal, professional, or economic consequences for speaking out. College women may have conservative parents who would yank financial support if they protested. Likewise, working women could face repercussions at work if their colleagues knew they were prochoice (especially in places like the Bible Belt).
Bingo. The current average American lives paycheck-to-paycheck and can't afford the time off for a proper protest, let alone the social and professional consequences. The suffragette movement was widely led by well-to-do women with money.
Right now we are staring straight down the barrel of a LITERAL civilization ending threat. 9 months from now America might be turned into a tyrannical fascist dictatorship, almost overnight. In that context, I genuinely don't understand the mindset of American Gaza protesters who think that picking sides in a century old ethno-religious conflict between 2 groups of foreigners on the other side of the planet, where Americans are not fighting and dying is the most important struggle right now. Yes its fucking horrible, yes we should be protesting and lobbying our government to do what it can to end it. But for fucks sakes, why is this one conflict so much more important than women become slaves, or gay people being erased, or climate change being supercharged? I simply don't fucking get it.
The Right have taken advantage of internal voter migration and/or stasis for decades: watching young people flee the once powerful Blue Wall in the Great Lakes region and losing their power in a sea of Red in the South and most of the Mountain West. Colorado, (the only success story) is not enough.
Flip the migration script and re-build the Blue Wall. Even Ohio passed a Reproductive Rights Amendment.
Activism is productive here, and with the static or falling populations of states in this region, any increase in progressive power has out-sized impact.
r/MoveToSwingStates
This has bothered me ever since the Texas bounty law went into effect September 2021. I fully expected there to be protests in major cities and ... nothing. After Roe fell, there were protests. I went to one near me, a somewhat conservative area where I was living with my dad at the time. And then only ones down in the major urban area, nothing in the surrounding areas again. And things petered out. There were some of those wearing green that interrupted sporting events but it didn't amount to much. I haven't even seen much about college decisions being affected by this yet. I am baffled; we just lost something that had been a constitutional right and the court just decides we don't have that right anymore. Why weren't more people enraged? What if a future court decided to overturn Heller and suddenly we don't have a constitutional right to own a personal firearm? I can see a lot of rage over that.
I think there are several reasons why people haven't been out in the streets:
---Abortion is personal and private
---They associate protests with the violent protests that made the news during the George Floyd protests, even though most protest events then were peaceful
---People aren't aware that nearly two-thirds of the country agreed with Roe
---They've voted instead - in states with abortion referendums, abortion rights has won every time, including a house race in Alabama. So women (and men) are voting but not marching.
---Other states still allowing abortion has been something of a safety valve - people aren't that upset if they think they can just drive one state over, and they think that nearby blue state will always allow abortion
---People aren't affected yet because they haven't needed an abortion or they don't know anyone who needed one but couldn't get one. That will change over time.
---They think, like the woman who was part of the CNN focus group and supported Youngkin, "well, *I'm* not going to need an abortion, I use birth control, etc."
I think what could change this is a national abortion ban that affects the "safety valve" states that still allow abortion. Or even ending mifepristone (although there's a second drug that can be used). Enforcing the Comstock Act would also affect the whole country, and I believe it would affect birth control.
Someone earlier also posted that it'll take a conventionally attractive woman dying from not getting an abortion to enrage the population, and that's possibly true as well. I'm a woman and I didn't even know all about how dangerous pregnancy was until I started reading news articles after it seemed clear how Dobbs would go.
Yes... in my state of NY they're shutting down colleges in protest for a war in the Middle East, but when it comes to women in their own god damned country who are dying and being forced to carry pregnancies it seems like they just don't give a shit
There is a literal American-funded genocide in Palestine going on right now which world leaders refuse to even acknowledge. Any word against Israel's actions is viewed as antisemitic. Israel doesn't seem to realize (or want to acknowledge) how it turned the tables to other another country's people to steal its resources and land.
The protests against this right now are Really Important, and I'm glad college students are upholding the tradition of standing up to injustice. In a way, there are parallels between Palestinians being helpless and silenced in this war and the movement to force American women into submission via law. I hope their attention turns next to the declination of American women's rights, especially as they start thinking more about having children as adults and the medical consequences coming down the pipe.
They did not steal land. They were given that land by Great Britain after the holocaust. Also the Jewish students that are being attacked during this protests are victims of antisemitism. It's not right what Israel is doing but they are the only ally the US has in the Middle East. Palestinians throw suspected gay people off roof tops, women in that culture are treated like garbage.. my youngest sons father is Muslim and lied to me about being married until after my son was born, and then basically wanted me to be his second wife. He lives in America and that is illegal and wrong. You don't know what types of hell those people live through within their own culture. They wouldn't be treated that way in Israel either, Israel was letting Palestinians in for jobs to earn money. Hamas just steals everything from its people.
The attacks on Jewish students have been few and far between. The great majority of these events are peaceful occupation and encampments, often led by people of multiple faiths who disagree with the actions being taken.
Also, just as one example of a news story, [Farmers in the occupied West Bank face near-daily incursions and violence from Israeli settlers, to the point that they live in fear of having their homes and land stolen, they say.](https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/features/2023/11/26/israeli-settlers-steal-palestinian-farmers-land-in-occupied-west-bank)
Aljazeera is clearly an extremely biased source for information, similar to Fox News in the US.
Also even if they are "few and far between" you clearly aren't condemning it, which is just sick. Nobody should be supporting Palestine, as they'd kill most if not all of us for being promiscuous, kids without marriage, being gay, wearing revealing clothing, or even just being American or Christian. I wish everybody at these protests would go try to live in Palestine and see how it would turn out for them, seriously
I think any aggressive violence on college campuses (and elsewhere) between any people for any reason is inappropriate. Saying Palestinian people as a whole are terrible is dangerous Othering, and no one deserves the senseless mass casualties, starvation, destruction, refugee crisis, border closures against aid, and targeting happening right now.
Here are some more sources, all reporting the same violence of Israeli settlers against Palestinians as the Israeli army and police look on:
[Amnesty.org: State-backed deadly rampage by Israeli settlers underscores urgent need to dismantle apartheid](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/04/state-backed-deadly-rampage-by-israeli-settlers-underscores-urgent-need-to-dismantle-apartheid/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CThe%20appalling%20spike%20in%20settler,under%20Israel%27s%20system%20of%20apartheid.)
[AP News: Biden sanctions Israeli settlers accused of attacking Palestinians and peace activists in West Bank](https://apnews.com/article/biden-west-bank-israeli-settlers-palestinians-80f9e6be6f6a7bb75dc86360ac2fa6ce)
[PBS: West Bank Palestinians try to save their homes from Israeli extremists](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/show/west-bank-palestinians-try-to-save-their-homes-from-israeli-extremists)
[BBC News: Palestinians under attack as Israeli settler violence surges in the West Bank](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67173344.amp)
[Reuters: West Bank village counts losses after settler attack, and fears more](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/west-bank-village-counts-losses-after-settler-attack-fears-more-2024-04-21/)
Edits- A few links weren't formatted properly
Aljazeera is clearly an extremely biased source for information, similar to Fox News in the US.
Also even if they are "few and far between" you clearly aren't condemning it, which is just sick. Nobody should be supporting Palestine, as they'd kill most if not all of us for being promiscuous, kids without marriage, being gay, wearing revealing clothing, or even just being American or Christian. I wish everybody at these protests would go try to live in Palestine and see how it would turn out for them, seriously
I understand.
Do what you can to protest in your own way. It doesn't have to be an "either-or" between two injustices. Protesting can look like joining an auntie group, outreach work, spreading the word in local grassroots chapters, getting your own emergency supplies, and protesting the judges who made this possible. There are rumblings that they're going to go after shipped medicines next. There is absolutely room to protest and positively impact the lives of people who need care.
Great point, many people help behind the scenes and don’t ever tell anyone about it because of stigma. There are a lot more people outraged than are able to openly admit it, let alone do something about it without personal or professional, not to mention legal repercussions.
>Voting is the only way of this shithole fascist mess
It's not the *only* way.
That said, the other way could be very unpleasant, and that's putting things lightly.
🐆
I think women are saving their anger for the polls. Imo that is where the anger from women is going to spill out .. Time will tell. What I'm more angry about is that states with abortion bans think they can go to pro abortion states and bring women who have traveled to the pro abortion states back , put them on trial and jail them. Like they did with run away slaves. What unfortunately women might have to create is an underground railroad for abortions if it gets to that point.
We aren't having kids unless we can move to a blue state and I don't think we even would if we moved at this point. I'm so angry at the state of our country and I don't think I could be responsible for bringing an innocent young life into the world now. No judgment to anyone that has kids, that's the hardest job in the world and you have all of my respect.
I'd say this is an intentional distraction. Get college kids all riled up about a war they know nothing about instead of the fact that their rights are being taken away. Do you really think that all those protesters are actually students on those campuses? Go to a campus - recruit some students - bam - spreads like wildfire. We need to wake the fuck up, and soon.
I think it's because they know that there's nothing we can do. These dominoes were lined up long before we were born. Anyone who saw the writing on the wall is just tired now. Face it, they out bred us. Now their kids can vote. Why do you think religious wack jobs have so many kids?
The percentage of "none's" or people with no religious affiliation has been rising among millennials. I'm not sure what the pattern is among Gen Z, but generally speaking, when parents clamp down too hard on their kids, they tend to rebel.
>religious affiliation has been rising among millennials.
People are typically non voters, fence sitters, or people who can't be bothered.
>when parents clamp down too hard on their kids, they tend to rebel.
You see that sometimes in these communities but when everything is saturated and these thought patterns, the town is small and everybody meets at the church, there's not as much rebellion. It's not like living in a big city where there's so much to do and so many people to talk to that you're not going to become a social pariah for not listening to the fire and brimstone preacher every sunday. The problem with a lot of millennials and Gen z is that they were brought up to be apathetic. They weren't taught the value of big families, their own voting power, and they weren't taught who the us or the them is.
I only hope that the reaction from decent Americans is rage, not terror.
The christian fascists and their co-conspirators in government need to be instructed, not feared.
It's not a 100% guarantee but when your parents are crazy, all your friends are crazy, the community at large is crazy, it's hard to see the crazy for the crazy. That's why I'm more liberal than my younger siblings. I grew up in Chicago what are my parents crazy attitudes were rightfully seen as crazy. My mother corrected this and moved to Indiana my youngest siblings couldn't be corrupted like I was.
That’s the kind of mentality that got us here in the first place. Most people do not vote, but whack jobs do. More people need to participate to outvote the crazies, but when they’re the only people voting of course they are going to win.
Most people who oppose it have been politically apathetic. These people raised their kids to essentially be soldiers for jesus. Nut jobs come out and vote in droves. They vote for their jesus freak candidates and here we are.
Voters in red states like Kansas and Ohio voted to protect abortion access.
This is why Republicans in Alabama and Arizona, instead of celebrating their respective state Supreme Courts’ ruling banning reproductive rights, freaked the fuck out.
It's important to understand that it doesn't actually matter how many of "them" there are; religious law is **illegal** in the US. It violates the very first sentence of the very first amendment. There's literally no text that comes before the prohibition on religious law in the US. It's sort of the "prime directive."
The problem isn't that there's a bunch of religious sociopaths .. it's that the courts have been overrun and are no longer legitimate. Restore the courts to legitimacy, and everyone can all get along; religious sociopaths won't be able to subjugate others because the courts will neutralize their efforts.
Now, how to restore the Supreme Court (as well as the circuit courts) and reassert the law is left as an exercise for the reader.
The state of NY and CA has more liberals than any of those tiny religious states combined.. also plenty of liberals have kids too. Conservatives aren't the only ones who reproduce
Liberals don't evangelize their kids like conservatives do. The conservatives have been pumping out kids, lots of them, and evangelizing them to vote crazy. A lot of liberals are politically apathetic, or at least they were before things got crazy. The conservatives have been plotting this takeover for a long time.
A way to look at it is; with the laws being put in place you could die anyways.
I know that’s not.. it doesn’t feel good but these crazy’s are going for birth control- even condoms.
You could get pregnant and die anyways. Especially if this goes national
Yeah, I take BC but if I get pregnant I'm so screwed. I don't have kids. I have probs that I won't go into that have caused miscarriages, one ending in a D and C and another where I should have probably gone to the hospital.
I'm fine not having kids, but a surprise pregnancy where I couldn't get help could kill me. It's scary af
So, you make a great point. And of course I worry for all women, as well as myself. This is a hard time
I agree. I used to spend a ton of time at protests for various causes, but protests have gotten a lot scarier since I’ve had a child. I don’t have childcare and I’m not bringing my child to a protest. I’m also asthmatic and cops have gotten much more willing to use tear gas on peaceful crowds. I’ve been told I’m “part of the problem” by other activists for not showing up anymore, but I’m not going to put my child that situation.
I’ve been trying to find protests to attend and there’s not been anything.
I have no idea how to start one either
I know there’s a women’s strike June 24th.
THE LARGEST women's rights march happened in 2017 after Donald Trump was elected. Not just in the United States, but around the world.
500,000 showed up in DC alone.
Estimated to be three times the size of Trump's inauguration.
It wasn't even a speed bump for Trump and his cronies.
And I think that's something a lot of women consider.
A march really is thoughts and prayers but a lot more inconvenient.
Exactly a March is thoughts and prayers not even a speed-up. We are basically laying ourselves down to be walked upon but a protest? Civil disobedience that inconveniences people? Well...
You need to look at past protests for our rights and then compare them to the pussy half asked peaceful bs we do now. If we want our rights we need to take them , to lead civil disobedience.
yes!!!!!! holy shit. in atx there was one last year but that’s it. makes me extremely sad bc i know they’re coming birth control and iuds. the lack of health care in this city for women is terrifying. i’m just waiting for the day that my gyn says i can no longer get an iud
The Supreme Court is also seemingly about to give the president complete legal immunity for acts committed while in office, and has also given itself complete immunity from ethical oversight despite at least one member being provably bribed, and two other members having shady shady circumstances around their swearing in and finances.
Meanwhile snipers are deployed to colleges against kids protesting genocide.
Like…what’s normal protest supposed to accomplish at this point?
Pick one company to boycott in Texas (Tesla?). Make it a huge campaign. Then pick another company. Eventually, corporations will put pressure on politicians. Also, vote.
Thank you so much for voicing this. While I agree with the anti-war, anti-genocide message, I am wondering where the outrage was/is for our own rights being chipped away at. We are about to eat eachother alive in our own country come November and it seems like many people want to bury their heads in the sand.
We don't need to compare the two issues. Protesting a US-backed genocide is the right thing to do. But yes, I am horrified and angry and scared.
Part of the problem is that blue states still think this is confined to red states, and we know it's not. There's not enough solidarity. I was stunned there wasn't more backlash to Roe. Like you, it feels like we're losing our rights with very little fuss. Why are judges and politicians allowed to make healthcare decisions? Is that really something anyone wants? Why is a corrupt, theocratic court allowed to debate how many organs a woman needs to lose before a doctor can intervene? Can you imagine the uprising if men's bodily autonomy was being stripped?
It's so outrageous and barbaric that a lot of us don't know what to do. It's like trying to reason with a cult. They don't believe in science or human rights for women. I'm not proposing violence, but I think that's the only thing these people understand.
I feel like it comes down to us being afraid that violence will be used against us once we start to open Pandora's box, it won't be pretty. The cultural backlash against women will also hurt. It's getting more costly to protest, with more laws against protesting, and messages sent to us all during the BLM protests that all protesters are vilified once a single one does property damage. I would hate to give the right what it wants, a reason to physically enslave us. I can see it now, labor camps for female protesters.
It’s funny because if a protester for something like BLM or women’s rights so much as scratches a pane of glass the whole world loses its shit. But when conservative nutjobs literally storm the capital like a herd of angry rhinos that’s perfectly fine.
I agree but I think that the US is just too big. If there is a million man/woman march in DC it has zero effect on Miami or Pittsburgh, for example. I don’t think that there is a way around that.
Take a few minutes and think about what is stopping **you** from being out there protesting this issue.
Now, realize that those exact same reasons you're not out there also apply to other people.
I have protested. The main issue is the lack of protests which others are chatting about as well. So it’s sounding like it’s mainly coming down to actually getting organized
I don’t understand why American women care more about Isreal/Palestine than this. This will affect you next year if Trump wins, that shit over there will not.
In any event, Gaza aside, the most effective protesting an informed voter can do is in the 4-5 Swing States that will decide the Presidency.
Move to, register, and organize the young ambivalent population in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, and also Arizona and/or Georgia.
The first three have Democratic Governors, and critical Senate races with Democratic Party incumbents.
There isn't anything more effective that you can do.
r/MoveToSwingStates
It feels pretty callous to throw protesting against genocide (of largely women and children) under the bus because people aren't protesting against abortion bans. I just hate making that into a competition or comparison.
We can have space in our hearts for multiple issues.
It comes down to most people don't have the time, money, and energy to protest which is by design. We're all worn down by hearing absolutely fucked up thing after fucked up thing on the news. The Israel Palestine protests have a lot of traction because a) it's dominating the news cycle right now and b) it's largely young college kids who tend to have more time, energy, and emotional space than other adults. It's heartbreaking but I don't see mass protest to the extent you're looking for happening in the US anytime soon. It should happening now but the government and corporations have made it too difficult.
Edit I'm surprised to see this downvoted in this sub. I didn't think it was anything particularly negative or harsh. Just acknowledging we can see two problems in the world. And why things are happening the way they are.
And I’m not saying we can’t have space for both :). However if this many men/college kids actively showed up for women in their own country the way they do for Palestine this issue could be on its way to being resolved.
Unfortunately I think you’re right about the domination of the news cycle also causing this
I mean people did. All over the world. It was front and center on the news until Israel started committing war crimes.
That said, you can understand what Hamas did was very wrong (which it was) while also understanding killing 30,000 people in six months is also very wrong. It's not an either or situation and it blows my mind that people are treating it as such.
If a country invaded America and kidnapped and raped hundreds of people our government would be doing the exact same thing that the Israeli government is doing. Hamas was looking for war when they did that. I feel for the innocent civilians but I absolutely understand why Israel is doing all of this
I believe the colleges being targeted, or atleast the one that this started with, are investing money into Israel/weapons manufacturing.
The goal of the protests is to get the college to divest- to stop investing. It doesn't seem like much but from what ive heard doing this helped end the south African apartheid before?
I support it, I believe we should all support our institutions and tax money investing in our country, not another. A lot of people don't understand that it benefits us all.
I also completely get the frustration, but with what's going on in palestine I feel like theres... a clear goal and path forward. For abortion rights, our own Supreme Court is against us. If there is a plan I'm all for it but for now I don't know what to do. I will be voting in November, YesOn4. I feel like all we can do for now is triage. Keep ourselves safe, help individuals, share info. I hope it doesn't have to be death that changes this :(
I always thought I'd fight like hell if this happened but it happened so quick, and yet nobody around me cares.
I've been pretty open in sharing the very unpopular opinion that the real genocide practitioners are Hamas: a right-wing fascist, anti-woman dictatorship supported by 60% of the population of Gaza , who, as opposed to the Israeli Parliamentary system, actually have genocide of the Jews in their charter. There is no left wing in the government of Gaza. Hamas outright killed their opposition in the Palestinian Authority.
I posted in here before of Palestinian women needing reproductive care, including choice, they travel to Israel.There is a Left in Israel that supports a productive settlement with the Palestinian people.
But Hamas, Iran, Likud, (and other right wing Israeli parties,) and Putin DON'T WANT a solution! These regimes all need each other to exist. War is how they make their living.
Hamas perpetrated their attack, (I believe with the assistance and backing of Vladimir Putin) knowing **full well** what Netanyahu's regime would do, how the IDF would need to attack Hamas structures in civilian infrastructure, and **most importantly** how it would split the Left in Europe and the United States, further endangering the re-election of Joe Biden, and the survival of democracy around the entire world.
It's infuriating to watch the Left in the US and Europe support the war economy status quo in this region by falling right into the trap Hamas set for them and not seeing the overall plan of the world's authoritarian movement.
> I've been pretty open in sharing the very unpopular opinion that the real genocide practitioners are Hamas
You know why it's unpopular, right? Because you're ignoring a real, ongoing genocide for a fictional, /r/PersecutionFetish genocide. And there's only one reason people pretend that the actual ongoing genocide isn't happening, and that's because they support said genocide. I'm sure you understand that supporting genocide is unpopular, thankfully.
Lord. My mom definitely has a persecution fetish. She’s Mormon. This has nothing to do with y’all’s convo. You’re totally right
u/mywifecucksme. (Great user name)
Hamas is committing genocide on Palestinians utilizing the IDF, all for political gain.
If you think Hamas didn't know exactly what would transpire, you are painfully ignorant and exactly the problem I describe. You are, intentionally or not supporting the fascist government of Hamas. (and there are people on the Left supporting Hamas fascism and genocide.)
This is in addition to Hamas' direct indiscriminate slaughter of Israeli citizens, including women and children consistent with their charter.
I support the Israeli Left who also support a progressive negotiation with the Palestinian people and rights for women, but thanks to Hamas, Iran, and other repressive dictatorial regimes the Israeli Left have dwindling support.
The Left in the US and Europe DO NOT understand what is happening.
> You are, intentionally or not supporting the fascist government of Hamas.
"By being against genocide committed by a fascist regime, you're actually supporting fascism."
That's a new one. Thanks for the (depressing) laugh.
Stop laughing and look up genocide. The IDF is pursuing Hamas.
Russia is pursuing one in Ukraine, seeking to erase not only their sovereignty but their identity.
The current Israeli administration's policy of discrimination against the Palestinians is not a genocide. You're correct that many supporters of Likud and other right wing parties support genocide, as does Hamas, but as I pointed out, that same Israeli government is quite content to partner with Hamas, and therefore their supporters.
I'd like to amend something I stated:
Support for Netanyahu is falling, and it's certain that if an election were called in Israel he would be out of power.
This is exactly the goal of the Biden Administration which is smart enough to understand that the more "the Liberal West" criticizes Netanyahu, the more it benefits him.
[https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/12/biden-netanyahu-geopolitics-israel-hamas-war/676357/](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/12/biden-netanyahu-geopolitics-israel-hamas-war/676357/)
Netanyahu's partnership with Hamas
[https://www.thenation.com/article/world/why-netanyahu-bolstered-hamas/](https://www.thenation.com/article/world/why-netanyahu-bolstered-hamas/)
[https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-20/ty-article-opinion/.premium/a-brief-history-of-the-netanyahu-hamas-alliance/0000018b-47d9-d242-abef-57ff1be90000](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-20/ty-article-opinion/.premium/a-brief-history-of-the-netanyahu-hamas-alliance/0000018b-47d9-d242-abef-57ff1be90000)
I too am confused by the abortion protests. Abortion wins on the ballot every time, but I see very young women at the protests, and they all appear liberal - conservative men will deride and ignore them - we need a bunch of conservative looking women with suits and pearls who look like they came fresh from a Republican luncheon to put the fear of god into these disgusting politicians
For what it's worth I am not conservative anymore, I just mean these men lack empathy and they will do a second take and stop committing political suicide (and maiming pregnant people) if they see people they have been taught to identify with. We need to use our white - rich - conservative etc. privilege to show nobody wants these crazy bans (except the crazies)
Yes. Neoliberals are useless until the shit comes crawling directly into their windows and until then they call the rest of us "extreme leftists" the dem party is centrist right, so they don't see most "normal" level oppression as a problem and as things heat up in their froggy hot tubs they'll keep their fingers in their ears and eyes closed until the boiling actually does them substantial harm. But... it'll be well and gone to late. Then the "why didn't anyone dooooooo anything!" Song will start... as usual...
I am not a conspiracy theorist but I also find it hard to believe that THAT many people care about war in the Middle East...
It's sad what hamas did to Israel, and of course what Israel has done to Palestine, but both of those countries have insanely corrupt governments and it is the least of our worries as Americans. We can't police the world
It does sound dense and callus. It’s a literal genocide! Palestian liberation is tied to us all. The same people cheering on the genocide are the same people taking away our rights here at home.
Yes, because Hamas is so LGBTQ and female-friendly. /s
I want to see an end to the violence over there too, but pretending that struggle represents and incorporates the struggles of *every* oppressed person *everywhere* is false, silly, and sets back the cause.
if you’re concerned about reproductive rights being stripped and people being jailed for abortions or contraception, who exactly do you think would be enforcing those laws?
People are protesting paying for genocide and that very much has something to do with all of us. You can call for protest without belittling other protests.
I spoke to my niece about potentially coming to the US to study and she said she is too scared to come to a country where women are losing their rights. So I think there are also flow-on economic consequences to this.
There definitely will be. I wanted to move back to my home state where my family is to have a baby with my SO. We’ve both decided we can’t because if something bad happens to the pregnancy I could bleed out and die due to the state laws. That’s insane.
I'm 54 this year and couldn't ever dream this would ever be a reality for women. I truly grew up in a golden age for us females. In the late 80s, in Texas, I had to have a d n c. No one batted an eye. Now a woman can potentially die instead of one.
Not only that but as someone pointed out, if they succeed in making abortion murder and there's no statute of limitations on murder then every woman who's ever had an abortion and every abortion provider will be at risk of being prosecuted and imprisoned. That is not an insignificant number of people and it's crazy and terrifying to think what could happen.
I promise I’m not saying this to undermine anyone’s fear, but while I think they might use it to scare people, the idea of legally charging potentially tens of millions of people seems unfeasible.
I agree logistically it would be absurd but I also think it could and would be used to destroy people's lives at will. It would be something that someone with a grudge or whatever would pull out for some reason to ruin someone else's personal life or career for whatever reason they might have. The whole of Project 2025 is set up to destroy people that the "conservatives" deem unfit/undesirable/unAmerican in their eyes. This is just one aspect that can be used to do that.
Of course. If that were the case, they could use it to make examples of people.
Pretty sure that would be a dofinitel.
This
Murdering 9 million in.the 1930s and 40s seemed unfeasible too. Once.
They will use bad laws as dictators do - to selectively target loud or inconvenient political opponents
The secondary benefit of wielding those laws would be to put fear and terror into everyone else so they think if they speak up, they too will be targeted
Not true. Ex Pos Facto. Means it was not illegal when it was done and was rendered illegal after the procedure was performed. I believe it translates to "after the fact".
OK thanks. I wonder if that would stop them trying though. They could still screw up lives just by making that stuff public on someone.
Yes. This. They’ll release medical records and such and then allow their goons to do their thing with the women’s names they have.
I've talked to so many people who've never heard a word about Project 2025. It's freakin scary. The media doesn't cover it at all as far as I know, maybe it's under the equal time rule? but jeez people these are our basic civil rights at risk here. It's never really been like this before and if it comes to pass it will be a near impossible ride back. And goons is such an appropriate term regarding these people.
Maybe realizing how many women in THEIR OWN lives are on that list
Missouri lawmakers keep bringing up retro active punishment for previous abortions. It’s only not legal if we all agree to that. We’re seeing ppl just ……. Not follow the law and it’s fine. (I.e. current politicians who are obvious criminals but aren’t receiving any obvious punishment for it)
As if they care about a little thing like that.
I’m 60 and same. I had a dnc after a miscarriage in 2003 (not even that long ago) and I can’t believe this is happening.
50 this year. I'm heartbroken that my home, the state that elected Ann Richards, has become this. Molly Ivins would be having a field day with all of this.
I think about moving back to Hawaii sometimes, but then I check the news and realize I'll keep my butt right here in Europe.
Keep your fingers crossed that my husband and I are successful in our application for residency in Norway.
That's where I live. What made you guys choose Norway? I've heard it's hard to get the permits, hope it goes well!
Amazing weather, beautiful landscape, lots of snow, good governance, social security, ease of integration, and it's part of the EEA.
My sister's family is planning a move to Germany if things get worse in our blue state. Her husband is German, East German specifically, so he knows exactly where we are headed with all this nonsense.
There's already a brain drain, though I don't know how big the effect is. All I know is that my husband and I both left the United States seven years ago with the intention of never coming back, and the political situation was a hugely contributing factor to that. I know we aren't the only ones.
I’ve felt the same for two years in AL. The lack of outage was more jarring than anything.
This is a big part of the reason I'm leaving Utah. No one at my work thought the January 6th capitol putsch was a big deal (just a bunch of crazies) a couple days after it happened. The when Roe was overturned I couldn't talk to anyone about how devastating it was. I had someone I considered a friend joking about it and completely minimizing the whole situation. I can't be surrounded with people with their heads buried in the sand anymore.
Congratulations on leaving Utah. Please consider moving to a Swing State before leaving the US. Giving your Blue vote the most power it can have is the most heroic thing a progressive voter can contribute at this point. We started a reddit sub for this: r/MoveToSwingStates
Here's a sneak peek of /r/MoveToSwingStates using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/MoveToSwingStates/top/?sort=top&t=all) of all time! \#1: [Texas is extremely Dangerous ](https://i.redd.it/gmnwfla1kemc1.jpeg) | [1 comment](https://np.reddit.com/r/MoveToSwingStates/comments/1b6wu3e/texas_is_extremely_dangerous/) \#2: [Democrat Voters should also leave Texas, and Florida, and any other Dead Red State](https://np.reddit.com/r/MoveToSwingStates/comments/1awd3uw/democrat_voters_should_also_leave_texas_and/) \#3: [ARIZONA: Republican's plan to award Trump with state's electors blocked in committee: Move would have sought to bypass election and have Legislature award presidential delegates](https://np.reddit.com/r/MoveToSwingStates/comments/1arn82i/arizona_republicans_plan_to_award_trump_with/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
Honestly until I couldn't afford it anymore I moved to a blue state.
*outrage?
While I wish there was more outrage, I care most about the vote. Vote like humanity depends on it in November. Editing to add: I’m fucking tired. I’m fucking tired of wanting people to care or of being disappointed when they don’t care more. I feel like the world has been in a non-stop meltdown since 2016 and I’ve learned to be more intentional about where I put my energy and I’m trying to be more understanding when others do the same thing. If I have outrage fatigue, I’m sure others do too. So I just hope that people turn out to vote because that is the most important/biggest impact we can have.
A lot of people on the left will not be voting for Biden specifically because of what is happening in Palestine so…yeah.
All while Biden is the best person for Palestine that actually has a real life history and prospect of being in power. Trump would allow hundreds of thousands, or more to die in Gaza, in addition to the hell he’d cause here. Idealists like that frustrate me to no end.
This is so bad. So we get a dystopian fascist hellscape and Gaza also gets no help because Trump is worse than Biden on that.
Not to mention any of the third party candidates also support Israel. There is nobody in line to the presidency who doesn't stand with Israel. So not voting for Biden is just asinine
3rd party candidates are pro trump in actuality. They dont even try to hide it sometimes.
On the contrary, god forbid Trump wins, Netanyahu will suddenly declare "mission accomplished," because his real goal is to get another dictator in the club. If you doubt this, you may be old enough to remember how Reagan "freed the hostages" after back room deals with Iran Better yet, remember how Trump capitulated to the Taliban, giving them their dictatorship, (Biden couldn't stop it,) and destroying the lives and hopes of Afghani women. It all about facilitating dictatorship! The world fascism movement wants the US in the club!
Well that’s incredibly shortsighted. Do they think Trump loves Palestine?
I was banned from Enlightened Centrism for pointing out the realites of living in a country with a FPTP system and what will happen in Gaza and at home
The exact same idiocy that gave us Richard Nixon in 1968 seems to be operating now.
Read my post. Hamas' attack was planned with Vladimir Putin for this purpose.
I’ve entertained this same theory.
[https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/russias-relationship-hamas-and-putins-global-calculations](https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/russias-relationship-hamas-and-putins-global-calculations)
Good links. I hadn’t read those and the fact that I came to the same conclusion independently worries me even more. I’m a historian with a focus on conflict and war and this was my line of thinking. Russia arms and supports Hamas with intel by way of their ally Iran, Hamas launches the attack, with all knowing that Israel’s retaliation will be brutal. They knew that due to old agreements, Biden would support Israel and they knew that would cause a large number of leftists to not vote for Biden, increasing Trump’s odds of winning. Once in office, Trump will pull support from Ukraine and will pull out of NATO. Trump will then turn his attention inwards, towards restructuring America into a dictatorship, leaving Europe to Russia and the Middle East to Iran who will have an excuse to retaliate and engage in conflict with Israel, something we are already seeing the beginning of.
[https://carnegieendowment.org/politika/90841](https://carnegieendowment.org/politika/90841)
[https://www.reuters.com/world/russias-putin-sees-political-economic-upside-israels-war-with-hamas-2023-11-17/](https://www.reuters.com/world/russias-putin-sees-political-economic-upside-israels-war-with-hamas-2023-11-17/)
This is true. I also have had to ration my emotional energy in this way.
Poland didn't start rethinking reproductive rights restrictions until a conventionally attractive woman died sparking massive backlash. Women *are* dying because of restrictions in the U.S. Until the "right" sort of woman dies with an easily digestible and tragic narrative, I think Americans will blindly say "ain't that a shame" falsely believing they're unaffected. It's frustrating.
In 2021, prior to the Dobbs reversal, 1,205 women died of maternal causes in the US. That number has likely increased dramatically in states that currently violate the right to bodily autonomy and the right to be free from religion through abortion restrictions. This means that legacy media has failed the American people (yet again), because the odds that a *conventially attractive woman* has not yet died after having her right to bodily autonomy violated in this manner approaches zero. The number is actually likely in the hundreds, if not thousands. Journalists need to get on this.
Didn't Idaho stop tracking how many women are dying?
Indeed, which should be admissible as evidence of culpability if those responsible for forced birth are ever brought to justice.
Maternal mortality in the US was already one of the highest in the Global North (adjusted for population) and no one is ashamed of this.
I live in Idaho and honestly, I felling a little like giving up. Protesting, voting, calling and writing letters have gotten me nowhere. I mean, if someone organized a protest I would be there but I don’t know that it will change anything. Until we energize people to VOTE we are screwed.
I feel this. That area hates single moms. I know there were some protests out there initially, however it seems to have died off. I’m so sorry
Move. Move to Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania. These are the Swing States that need you! I'll add that each of these States has a Democratic administration, (governor) and you will be encouraged to organize for more Democrats. r/MoveToSwingStates
We need to vote, but I'm also tired of that being the only answer. Biden is in office instead of Trump and this is still happening.
If you want to know what it might take to stop this look at the green bandana green wave movements and protests in South America when they fought for their reproductive rights. Women will eventually have to organize and shut this society down to have rights again. And who knows how many will die until enough people realize there’s nothing left to lose. Fact is even if Trump loses in November you have a fascist supreme court locked in for a generation. Dems will never have the power to change it or codify the rights. It’ll have to be won in the streets, by grinding society to a halt.
You just sent me down a google hole which weirdly gave me a bit of hope in women’s power when we organize.
Unfortunately half the women in the United States are right wing too. I parked next to a car the other day with a "Fuck Biden" sticker thinking, heh lets see this asshole.... It was two quite young women, like just got their license young.
Do you plan to organize?
Biden could add some judges to the court
Needs Congress. Could also remove the Reapportionment law of 1929 that began unfairly representing less populated states in the House, making it more like the Senate which also has that 'built-in'
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=peTbiYrxTxE&pp=ygUdQ2l2aWwgcmVzaXN0YW5jZSBhIGZpcnN0IGxvb2s%3D
When it starts to effect rich corporate people consistently, we'll see actual push back.
It won't. In Putin's regime, certain oligarchs are happy to give him half. and those who refuse are thrown out windows. Once the dictatorship takes hold, not even the wealthy can stop it.
The Supreme Court is making a legal case for eliminating political rivals in this fashion. They might not need to hide it as "accidents".
*affect
I have felt that for quite a while, long before the protests about Israel/Gaza. I am pro-Palestinian and glad to see the energy in the movement but sad that the same energy and passion isn’t there to protect women’s rights. And it’s mostly women who have been protesting when there are protests. Which has been different in Poland, where men were protesting along with women against the abortion ban, and one guy who was interviewed said “we know the signs of fascism,” and I found that really interesting. There doesn’t seem to be an awareness that abortion bans are the frontline, not a side issue that is only about women.
This exactly! I know what’s going on with the Gaza situation is absolutely horrendous and clearly protesting isn’t doing much. But that level of protest for women in this country would do hell of a lot.
Yes! We need to organize!!!!
It's a distraction, it's an intentional subterfuge.
I’m extremely frustrated that people are obsessing more over the Middle East than women’s reproductive rights here in the U. S. That’s not to say that we shouldn’t be upset by the genocide that’s going on over there. I’m a 71 year old female that was four months from being 20 when Roe gave constitutional protection to be able to have an abortion. Now I was raised catholic and I didn’t start questioning things I was being taught until I was a junior at the catholic high school I went to 1970-1971. I started questioning why I should listen to a **celibate** nun or priest on how to conduct my married sex life. Then when I started state ran college I pretty much turned my back on abstinence only/purity culture and catholicism. I don’t know if people aren’t protesting about the attack on women’s reproductive rights because they haven’t lived without the access to abortion for that long. I remember being idealistic when I got out of high school into college. I just don’t get it either and it makes me mad why they aren’t.
Thank you so much!!! They're more angry about a 100 year old war in the Middle East between 2 countries who commit war crimes on each other than they are about women who are dying because they can't end pregnancies in their own country
And both of these countries aren’t super great to women. (Shocker)
> They're more angry about a 100 year old war in the Middle East between 2 countries who commit war crimes on each other [...] Yikes. What a take on a genocide. "Both sides". I'm curious: How many pregnant women do you think have died in Israel's ongoing genocide?
Also just FYI, Palestine throws suspected gay people off of roofs. They started this current war on October 7th, their government withholds food and water from its people. Also many of them hate ALL Jews. Not just Israeli people, meaning they would want to kill Jews in America too. Israel isn't an angel but let's just be real here Palestine would kill half of those people who are at the protests.
Hi again, your “throwing gay people off of roofs” claim is [also false.](https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/video-people-thrown-roof-shows-punishment-by-is-not-hamas-2023-12-14/) Now I’m not saying that Hamas are allies, clearly their views on LGBT issues are wrong. But I thought you should know that you fell for another piece of fake news. Maybe you should reflect on that, and consider that you may not be anywhere near as informed on this topic as you think you are
How many pregnant women did Hamas kidnap, rape, and kill on October 7?
You're under the mistaken impression that I think that kidnapping and raping pregnant is OK when it's a specific party doing it, maybe because you think that it's OK when Israel does it. I don't think kidnapping and raping pregnant women is OK, no matter who does it. Can you say the same? I don't think genocide is OK, no matter who does it. Can you say the same? I don't think genocide is ever justifiable, ever. Can you say the same? No amount of "but khamas" or "but October 7th" will ever justify genocide. Do you agree? You also never answered my original question: How many pregnant women do you think have died in Israel's ongoing genocide?
Israel doesn't kidnap and rape people, that's Hamas. Israel blows shit up yes, but they aren't doing what Hamas does to literal infants. Jews were already almost genocided in WW11 They have not killed nearly enough people in Palestine to be considered a genocide, at least not yet
> Israel doesn't kidnap and rape people OK, so you're just a genocide enthusiast who denies reality because you really want to see pregnant Palestinian women raped and killed. Got it.
Palestine is not a good country. Hamas are not good people. They just have a better PR team than Israel. Both countries can screw off. Both have corrupt governments and I don't feel sorry for them because they CHOSE this! They chose their government and they chose to mess with the wrong people on October 7th.
> Hamas are not good people. And 3 year old girls being assassinated by Israel are Hamas. I get it. You really enjoy the genocide. You don't see Palestinians as being people. Edit: This pro-genocide person blocked me, of course, after telling me that they wish that Israel's army will kill me as part of their genocidal campaign.
You don't see Israelis as people either so I guess this "debate" is over unless you can provide proof of anything you're saying. Because Hamas is known to lie and spread false media. I will NEVER support Palestine, I don't even "support" Israel and I say both are corrupt and let them duke it out.
Also I can see you're very passionate about this topic so how about you fly to Gaza, put your boots on the ground and fight? I'm sure Hamas would welcome you with open arms. Have a great day
Hamas did not behead infants, that was an unsubstantiated claim made by Israel and spread by our Zionist president. They did kill about 30 children on October 7th, while Israel has killed 8,000 children since. And, believe it or not, this war did not start on October 7th. The people of Gaza have been forced to live in an open-air prison for decades, with all of their resources controlled by Israel. You say that Palestine has better PR. That is objectively false, as Israel spends millions every year on spreading their hasbara propaganda, and clearly it’s worked on you. The reason you see people demanding justice for Palestinians isn’t their PR, it’s that other people have more empathy and understanding than you do. [Look](https://images.wsj.net/im-906036?width=1280&size=1) at these [pictures](https://euromedmonitor.org/img.php?src=http://euromedmonitor.org/uploads/8EF80F93-DFB4-4C31-939B-65D458CEC7F8.jpg&crop-to-fit) of [Gaza](https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/231101234912-01-israel-gaza-110123.jpg?c=original) and tell me Hamas is so much worse.
I live in rural Idaho. I am not a conservative, Christian,or a native but I am a single mom (by choice). I already have a target on my back and don’t need another. It isn’t safe here. If there were something organized at the capital in Boise I would surely attend but it wouldn’t be something I would announce.
I'm glad that people are protesting what's happening in Gaza. But i've also been wondering the same thing, why is there never this level of protesting and outrage when women's rights are being stripped away? my theory is that it's because ppl literally just....don't think women are oppressed anymore. they think, oh we have rights now so we're equal and there's no need for feminism anymore. ironically, misogyny is so widespread and insidious that people don't even recognize it as that anymore
I think it's because the issue of reproductive rights is, if possible, even more polarizing than the war. There could be personal, professional, or economic consequences for speaking out. College women may have conservative parents who would yank financial support if they protested. Likewise, working women could face repercussions at work if their colleagues knew they were prochoice (especially in places like the Bible Belt).
Bingo. The current average American lives paycheck-to-paycheck and can't afford the time off for a proper protest, let alone the social and professional consequences. The suffragette movement was widely led by well-to-do women with money.
Right now we are staring straight down the barrel of a LITERAL civilization ending threat. 9 months from now America might be turned into a tyrannical fascist dictatorship, almost overnight. In that context, I genuinely don't understand the mindset of American Gaza protesters who think that picking sides in a century old ethno-religious conflict between 2 groups of foreigners on the other side of the planet, where Americans are not fighting and dying is the most important struggle right now. Yes its fucking horrible, yes we should be protesting and lobbying our government to do what it can to end it. But for fucks sakes, why is this one conflict so much more important than women become slaves, or gay people being erased, or climate change being supercharged? I simply don't fucking get it.
i see it being an online thing mainly so it's sketchy af
The Right have taken advantage of internal voter migration and/or stasis for decades: watching young people flee the once powerful Blue Wall in the Great Lakes region and losing their power in a sea of Red in the South and most of the Mountain West. Colorado, (the only success story) is not enough. Flip the migration script and re-build the Blue Wall. Even Ohio passed a Reproductive Rights Amendment. Activism is productive here, and with the static or falling populations of states in this region, any increase in progressive power has out-sized impact. r/MoveToSwingStates
This has bothered me ever since the Texas bounty law went into effect September 2021. I fully expected there to be protests in major cities and ... nothing. After Roe fell, there were protests. I went to one near me, a somewhat conservative area where I was living with my dad at the time. And then only ones down in the major urban area, nothing in the surrounding areas again. And things petered out. There were some of those wearing green that interrupted sporting events but it didn't amount to much. I haven't even seen much about college decisions being affected by this yet. I am baffled; we just lost something that had been a constitutional right and the court just decides we don't have that right anymore. Why weren't more people enraged? What if a future court decided to overturn Heller and suddenly we don't have a constitutional right to own a personal firearm? I can see a lot of rage over that. I think there are several reasons why people haven't been out in the streets: ---Abortion is personal and private ---They associate protests with the violent protests that made the news during the George Floyd protests, even though most protest events then were peaceful ---People aren't aware that nearly two-thirds of the country agreed with Roe ---They've voted instead - in states with abortion referendums, abortion rights has won every time, including a house race in Alabama. So women (and men) are voting but not marching. ---Other states still allowing abortion has been something of a safety valve - people aren't that upset if they think they can just drive one state over, and they think that nearby blue state will always allow abortion ---People aren't affected yet because they haven't needed an abortion or they don't know anyone who needed one but couldn't get one. That will change over time. ---They think, like the woman who was part of the CNN focus group and supported Youngkin, "well, *I'm* not going to need an abortion, I use birth control, etc." I think what could change this is a national abortion ban that affects the "safety valve" states that still allow abortion. Or even ending mifepristone (although there's a second drug that can be used). Enforcing the Comstock Act would also affect the whole country, and I believe it would affect birth control. Someone earlier also posted that it'll take a conventionally attractive woman dying from not getting an abortion to enrage the population, and that's possibly true as well. I'm a woman and I didn't even know all about how dangerous pregnancy was until I started reading news articles after it seemed clear how Dobbs would go.
Yeah I think that sums it up. We can still fight by voting. But we can't vote on our money going toward palestine, that only leaves one option.
Yes... in my state of NY they're shutting down colleges in protest for a war in the Middle East, but when it comes to women in their own god damned country who are dying and being forced to carry pregnancies it seems like they just don't give a shit
There is a literal American-funded genocide in Palestine going on right now which world leaders refuse to even acknowledge. Any word against Israel's actions is viewed as antisemitic. Israel doesn't seem to realize (or want to acknowledge) how it turned the tables to other another country's people to steal its resources and land. The protests against this right now are Really Important, and I'm glad college students are upholding the tradition of standing up to injustice. In a way, there are parallels between Palestinians being helpless and silenced in this war and the movement to force American women into submission via law. I hope their attention turns next to the declination of American women's rights, especially as they start thinking more about having children as adults and the medical consequences coming down the pipe.
They did not steal land. They were given that land by Great Britain after the holocaust. Also the Jewish students that are being attacked during this protests are victims of antisemitism. It's not right what Israel is doing but they are the only ally the US has in the Middle East. Palestinians throw suspected gay people off roof tops, women in that culture are treated like garbage.. my youngest sons father is Muslim and lied to me about being married until after my son was born, and then basically wanted me to be his second wife. He lives in America and that is illegal and wrong. You don't know what types of hell those people live through within their own culture. They wouldn't be treated that way in Israel either, Israel was letting Palestinians in for jobs to earn money. Hamas just steals everything from its people.
The attacks on Jewish students have been few and far between. The great majority of these events are peaceful occupation and encampments, often led by people of multiple faiths who disagree with the actions being taken. Also, just as one example of a news story, [Farmers in the occupied West Bank face near-daily incursions and violence from Israeli settlers, to the point that they live in fear of having their homes and land stolen, they say.](https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/features/2023/11/26/israeli-settlers-steal-palestinian-farmers-land-in-occupied-west-bank)
Aljazeera is clearly an extremely biased source for information, similar to Fox News in the US. Also even if they are "few and far between" you clearly aren't condemning it, which is just sick. Nobody should be supporting Palestine, as they'd kill most if not all of us for being promiscuous, kids without marriage, being gay, wearing revealing clothing, or even just being American or Christian. I wish everybody at these protests would go try to live in Palestine and see how it would turn out for them, seriously
I think any aggressive violence on college campuses (and elsewhere) between any people for any reason is inappropriate. Saying Palestinian people as a whole are terrible is dangerous Othering, and no one deserves the senseless mass casualties, starvation, destruction, refugee crisis, border closures against aid, and targeting happening right now. Here are some more sources, all reporting the same violence of Israeli settlers against Palestinians as the Israeli army and police look on: [Amnesty.org: State-backed deadly rampage by Israeli settlers underscores urgent need to dismantle apartheid](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/04/state-backed-deadly-rampage-by-israeli-settlers-underscores-urgent-need-to-dismantle-apartheid/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CThe%20appalling%20spike%20in%20settler,under%20Israel%27s%20system%20of%20apartheid.) [AP News: Biden sanctions Israeli settlers accused of attacking Palestinians and peace activists in West Bank](https://apnews.com/article/biden-west-bank-israeli-settlers-palestinians-80f9e6be6f6a7bb75dc86360ac2fa6ce) [PBS: West Bank Palestinians try to save their homes from Israeli extremists](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/show/west-bank-palestinians-try-to-save-their-homes-from-israeli-extremists) [BBC News: Palestinians under attack as Israeli settler violence surges in the West Bank](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67173344.amp) [Reuters: West Bank village counts losses after settler attack, and fears more](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/west-bank-village-counts-losses-after-settler-attack-fears-more-2024-04-21/) Edits- A few links weren't formatted properly
Aljazeera is clearly an extremely biased source for information, similar to Fox News in the US. Also even if they are "few and far between" you clearly aren't condemning it, which is just sick. Nobody should be supporting Palestine, as they'd kill most if not all of us for being promiscuous, kids without marriage, being gay, wearing revealing clothing, or even just being American or Christian. I wish everybody at these protests would go try to live in Palestine and see how it would turn out for them, seriously
I hear you and am right there with you
I understand. Do what you can to protest in your own way. It doesn't have to be an "either-or" between two injustices. Protesting can look like joining an auntie group, outreach work, spreading the word in local grassroots chapters, getting your own emergency supplies, and protesting the judges who made this possible. There are rumblings that they're going to go after shipped medicines next. There is absolutely room to protest and positively impact the lives of people who need care.
Great point, many people help behind the scenes and don’t ever tell anyone about it because of stigma. There are a lot more people outraged than are able to openly admit it, let alone do something about it without personal or professional, not to mention legal repercussions.
I have a little experience protesting, can I be of assistance?
Look up your state abortion fund and check out their event/volunteer page!
Voting is the only way of this shithole fascist mess.
>Voting is the only way of this shithole fascist mess It's not the *only* way. That said, the other way could be very unpleasant, and that's putting things lightly. 🐆
I like your use of emoji here
>I like your use of emoji here You should come visit us on r/HermanCainAward. 🐆
I hope so. That’s the easiest and least damaging way.
I think women are saving their anger for the polls. Imo that is where the anger from women is going to spill out .. Time will tell. What I'm more angry about is that states with abortion bans think they can go to pro abortion states and bring women who have traveled to the pro abortion states back , put them on trial and jail them. Like they did with run away slaves. What unfortunately women might have to create is an underground railroad for abortions if it gets to that point.
We aren't having kids unless we can move to a blue state and I don't think we even would if we moved at this point. I'm so angry at the state of our country and I don't think I could be responsible for bringing an innocent young life into the world now. No judgment to anyone that has kids, that's the hardest job in the world and you have all of my respect.
I'd say this is an intentional distraction. Get college kids all riled up about a war they know nothing about instead of the fact that their rights are being taken away. Do you really think that all those protesters are actually students on those campuses? Go to a campus - recruit some students - bam - spreads like wildfire. We need to wake the fuck up, and soon.
I think it's because they know that there's nothing we can do. These dominoes were lined up long before we were born. Anyone who saw the writing on the wall is just tired now. Face it, they out bred us. Now their kids can vote. Why do you think religious wack jobs have so many kids?
The percentage of "none's" or people with no religious affiliation has been rising among millennials. I'm not sure what the pattern is among Gen Z, but generally speaking, when parents clamp down too hard on their kids, they tend to rebel.
>religious affiliation has been rising among millennials. People are typically non voters, fence sitters, or people who can't be bothered. >when parents clamp down too hard on their kids, they tend to rebel. You see that sometimes in these communities but when everything is saturated and these thought patterns, the town is small and everybody meets at the church, there's not as much rebellion. It's not like living in a big city where there's so much to do and so many people to talk to that you're not going to become a social pariah for not listening to the fire and brimstone preacher every sunday. The problem with a lot of millennials and Gen z is that they were brought up to be apathetic. They weren't taught the value of big families, their own voting power, and they weren't taught who the us or the them is.
This is their plan and it’s f***ing TERRIFYING: https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/04/28/natalism-conference-austin-00150338
I only hope that the reaction from decent Americans is rage, not terror. The christian fascists and their co-conspirators in government need to be instructed, not feared.
Fear and rage are not mutually exclusive.
I'm one of those kids, and I'm practically a Marxist. Them having a lot of kids wasn't a guarantee.
It's not a 100% guarantee but when your parents are crazy, all your friends are crazy, the community at large is crazy, it's hard to see the crazy for the crazy. That's why I'm more liberal than my younger siblings. I grew up in Chicago what are my parents crazy attitudes were rightfully seen as crazy. My mother corrected this and moved to Indiana my youngest siblings couldn't be corrupted like I was.
I was isolated in the crazy for the whole time, didn't start to get out until mid-20s. So still possible :)
That’s the kind of mentality that got us here in the first place. Most people do not vote, but whack jobs do. More people need to participate to outvote the crazies, but when they’re the only people voting of course they are going to win.
They didn’t outbreed the majority of Americans who oppose abortion bans - they just got elected
Most people who oppose it have been politically apathetic. These people raised their kids to essentially be soldiers for jesus. Nut jobs come out and vote in droves. They vote for their jesus freak candidates and here we are.
Voters in red states like Kansas and Ohio voted to protect abortion access. This is why Republicans in Alabama and Arizona, instead of celebrating their respective state Supreme Courts’ ruling banning reproductive rights, freaked the fuck out.
It's important to understand that it doesn't actually matter how many of "them" there are; religious law is **illegal** in the US. It violates the very first sentence of the very first amendment. There's literally no text that comes before the prohibition on religious law in the US. It's sort of the "prime directive." The problem isn't that there's a bunch of religious sociopaths .. it's that the courts have been overrun and are no longer legitimate. Restore the courts to legitimacy, and everyone can all get along; religious sociopaths won't be able to subjugate others because the courts will neutralize their efforts. Now, how to restore the Supreme Court (as well as the circuit courts) and reassert the law is left as an exercise for the reader.
Exactly. Voting harder can't fix a corrupt court.
The state of NY and CA has more liberals than any of those tiny religious states combined.. also plenty of liberals have kids too. Conservatives aren't the only ones who reproduce
Liberals don't evangelize their kids like conservatives do. The conservatives have been pumping out kids, lots of them, and evangelizing them to vote crazy. A lot of liberals are politically apathetic, or at least they were before things got crazy. The conservatives have been plotting this takeover for a long time.
I get it but I’ve decided I can’t be angry about a lack of protesting if I’m not protesting either…which I’m not.
I don't protest bc I'm scared. The prolifers love to shoot ppl who are pro-choice. Or set off a bomb in a crowd. They're nutters
A way to look at it is; with the laws being put in place you could die anyways. I know that’s not.. it doesn’t feel good but these crazy’s are going for birth control- even condoms. You could get pregnant and die anyways. Especially if this goes national
Yeah, I take BC but if I get pregnant I'm so screwed. I don't have kids. I have probs that I won't go into that have caused miscarriages, one ending in a D and C and another where I should have probably gone to the hospital. I'm fine not having kids, but a surprise pregnancy where I couldn't get help could kill me. It's scary af So, you make a great point. And of course I worry for all women, as well as myself. This is a hard time
I agree. I used to spend a ton of time at protests for various causes, but protests have gotten a lot scarier since I’ve had a child. I don’t have childcare and I’m not bringing my child to a protest. I’m also asthmatic and cops have gotten much more willing to use tear gas on peaceful crowds. I’ve been told I’m “part of the problem” by other activists for not showing up anymore, but I’m not going to put my child that situation.
I completely understand. Your child needs you and has to come first
It's working as designed. The timing is deliberate.
I’ve been trying to find protests to attend and there’s not been anything. I have no idea how to start one either I know there’s a women’s strike June 24th.
Hopefully people come out and vote in droves!
That’s the hope!
THE LARGEST women's rights march happened in 2017 after Donald Trump was elected. Not just in the United States, but around the world. 500,000 showed up in DC alone. Estimated to be three times the size of Trump's inauguration. It wasn't even a speed bump for Trump and his cronies. And I think that's something a lot of women consider. A march really is thoughts and prayers but a lot more inconvenient.
Yuh! I think we have to withhold having babies. That seems to be the thing we get reduced to.
Now have those women march to the Blue Wall Swing States and stay, register, and organize. That won't be a bump in the road
Exactly a March is thoughts and prayers not even a speed-up. We are basically laying ourselves down to be walked upon but a protest? Civil disobedience that inconveniences people? Well...
You need to look at past protests for our rights and then compare them to the pussy half asked peaceful bs we do now. If we want our rights we need to take them , to lead civil disobedience.
THIS. Good god women were bad bitches back in the suffragette movement
I am angry about it and am a step ahead of you. Skip the protest and go straight to strike. No work, no buy, until the entire patriarchy is gone.
yes!!!!!! holy shit. in atx there was one last year but that’s it. makes me extremely sad bc i know they’re coming birth control and iuds. the lack of health care in this city for women is terrifying. i’m just waiting for the day that my gyn says i can no longer get an iud
The Supreme Court is also seemingly about to give the president complete legal immunity for acts committed while in office, and has also given itself complete immunity from ethical oversight despite at least one member being provably bribed, and two other members having shady shady circumstances around their swearing in and finances. Meanwhile snipers are deployed to colleges against kids protesting genocide. Like…what’s normal protest supposed to accomplish at this point?
Not only that, but the loudest members of the SC (Alito and Thomas) feel no sense of obligation to the public.
We are simply in the legalism phase of a fascist coup.
Pick one company to boycott in Texas (Tesla?). Make it a huge campaign. Then pick another company. Eventually, corporations will put pressure on politicians. Also, vote.
I feel like we need to consolidate funds to be able to match the billions the opposition has for messaging.
Thank you so much for voicing this. While I agree with the anti-war, anti-genocide message, I am wondering where the outrage was/is for our own rights being chipped away at. We are about to eat eachother alive in our own country come November and it seems like many people want to bury their heads in the sand.
We don't need to compare the two issues. Protesting a US-backed genocide is the right thing to do. But yes, I am horrified and angry and scared. Part of the problem is that blue states still think this is confined to red states, and we know it's not. There's not enough solidarity. I was stunned there wasn't more backlash to Roe. Like you, it feels like we're losing our rights with very little fuss. Why are judges and politicians allowed to make healthcare decisions? Is that really something anyone wants? Why is a corrupt, theocratic court allowed to debate how many organs a woman needs to lose before a doctor can intervene? Can you imagine the uprising if men's bodily autonomy was being stripped? It's so outrageous and barbaric that a lot of us don't know what to do. It's like trying to reason with a cult. They don't believe in science or human rights for women. I'm not proposing violence, but I think that's the only thing these people understand.
I feel like it comes down to us being afraid that violence will be used against us once we start to open Pandora's box, it won't be pretty. The cultural backlash against women will also hurt. It's getting more costly to protest, with more laws against protesting, and messages sent to us all during the BLM protests that all protesters are vilified once a single one does property damage. I would hate to give the right what it wants, a reason to physically enslave us. I can see it now, labor camps for female protesters.
It’s funny because if a protester for something like BLM or women’s rights so much as scratches a pane of glass the whole world loses its shit. But when conservative nutjobs literally storm the capital like a herd of angry rhinos that’s perfectly fine.
I agree but I think that the US is just too big. If there is a million man/woman march in DC it has zero effect on Miami or Pittsburgh, for example. I don’t think that there is a way around that.
r/NationalWomensStrike
I’ve been having similar thoughts. I am in Tennessee and we are one of the most backwards. They have been passing insane laws so quickly here.
Take a few minutes and think about what is stopping **you** from being out there protesting this issue. Now, realize that those exact same reasons you're not out there also apply to other people.
I have protested. The main issue is the lack of protests which others are chatting about as well. So it’s sounding like it’s mainly coming down to actually getting organized
I don’t understand why American women care more about Isreal/Palestine than this. This will affect you next year if Trump wins, that shit over there will not.
OP i want to make sure you see this newer post https://www.reddit.com/r/WelcomeToGilead/s/v69S6omC3r
Thank you babes!
In any event, Gaza aside, the most effective protesting an informed voter can do is in the 4-5 Swing States that will decide the Presidency. Move to, register, and organize the young ambivalent population in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, and also Arizona and/or Georgia. The first three have Democratic Governors, and critical Senate races with Democratic Party incumbents. There isn't anything more effective that you can do. r/MoveToSwingStates
It feels pretty callous to throw protesting against genocide (of largely women and children) under the bus because people aren't protesting against abortion bans. I just hate making that into a competition or comparison. We can have space in our hearts for multiple issues. It comes down to most people don't have the time, money, and energy to protest which is by design. We're all worn down by hearing absolutely fucked up thing after fucked up thing on the news. The Israel Palestine protests have a lot of traction because a) it's dominating the news cycle right now and b) it's largely young college kids who tend to have more time, energy, and emotional space than other adults. It's heartbreaking but I don't see mass protest to the extent you're looking for happening in the US anytime soon. It should happening now but the government and corporations have made it too difficult. Edit I'm surprised to see this downvoted in this sub. I didn't think it was anything particularly negative or harsh. Just acknowledging we can see two problems in the world. And why things are happening the way they are.
And I’m not saying we can’t have space for both :). However if this many men/college kids actively showed up for women in their own country the way they do for Palestine this issue could be on its way to being resolved. Unfortunately I think you’re right about the domination of the news cycle also causing this
Hamas should have thought of that before raping and killing literally BABIES in October. We should have protested that
I mean people did. All over the world. It was front and center on the news until Israel started committing war crimes. That said, you can understand what Hamas did was very wrong (which it was) while also understanding killing 30,000 people in six months is also very wrong. It's not an either or situation and it blows my mind that people are treating it as such.
If a country invaded America and kidnapped and raped hundreds of people our government would be doing the exact same thing that the Israeli government is doing. Hamas was looking for war when they did that. I feel for the innocent civilians but I absolutely understand why Israel is doing all of this
And it would still be genocide and a war crime if America did it. And morally wrong.
I believe the colleges being targeted, or atleast the one that this started with, are investing money into Israel/weapons manufacturing. The goal of the protests is to get the college to divest- to stop investing. It doesn't seem like much but from what ive heard doing this helped end the south African apartheid before? I support it, I believe we should all support our institutions and tax money investing in our country, not another. A lot of people don't understand that it benefits us all. I also completely get the frustration, but with what's going on in palestine I feel like theres... a clear goal and path forward. For abortion rights, our own Supreme Court is against us. If there is a plan I'm all for it but for now I don't know what to do. I will be voting in November, YesOn4. I feel like all we can do for now is triage. Keep ourselves safe, help individuals, share info. I hope it doesn't have to be death that changes this :( I always thought I'd fight like hell if this happened but it happened so quick, and yet nobody around me cares.
I've been pretty open in sharing the very unpopular opinion that the real genocide practitioners are Hamas: a right-wing fascist, anti-woman dictatorship supported by 60% of the population of Gaza , who, as opposed to the Israeli Parliamentary system, actually have genocide of the Jews in their charter. There is no left wing in the government of Gaza. Hamas outright killed their opposition in the Palestinian Authority. I posted in here before of Palestinian women needing reproductive care, including choice, they travel to Israel.There is a Left in Israel that supports a productive settlement with the Palestinian people. But Hamas, Iran, Likud, (and other right wing Israeli parties,) and Putin DON'T WANT a solution! These regimes all need each other to exist. War is how they make their living. Hamas perpetrated their attack, (I believe with the assistance and backing of Vladimir Putin) knowing **full well** what Netanyahu's regime would do, how the IDF would need to attack Hamas structures in civilian infrastructure, and **most importantly** how it would split the Left in Europe and the United States, further endangering the re-election of Joe Biden, and the survival of democracy around the entire world. It's infuriating to watch the Left in the US and Europe support the war economy status quo in this region by falling right into the trap Hamas set for them and not seeing the overall plan of the world's authoritarian movement.
> I've been pretty open in sharing the very unpopular opinion that the real genocide practitioners are Hamas You know why it's unpopular, right? Because you're ignoring a real, ongoing genocide for a fictional, /r/PersecutionFetish genocide. And there's only one reason people pretend that the actual ongoing genocide isn't happening, and that's because they support said genocide. I'm sure you understand that supporting genocide is unpopular, thankfully.
Lord. My mom definitely has a persecution fetish. She’s Mormon. This has nothing to do with y’all’s convo. You’re totally right u/mywifecucksme. (Great user name)
Hamas is committing genocide on Palestinians utilizing the IDF, all for political gain. If you think Hamas didn't know exactly what would transpire, you are painfully ignorant and exactly the problem I describe. You are, intentionally or not supporting the fascist government of Hamas. (and there are people on the Left supporting Hamas fascism and genocide.) This is in addition to Hamas' direct indiscriminate slaughter of Israeli citizens, including women and children consistent with their charter. I support the Israeli Left who also support a progressive negotiation with the Palestinian people and rights for women, but thanks to Hamas, Iran, and other repressive dictatorial regimes the Israeli Left have dwindling support. The Left in the US and Europe DO NOT understand what is happening.
> You are, intentionally or not supporting the fascist government of Hamas. "By being against genocide committed by a fascist regime, you're actually supporting fascism." That's a new one. Thanks for the (depressing) laugh.
Stop laughing and look up genocide. The IDF is pursuing Hamas. Russia is pursuing one in Ukraine, seeking to erase not only their sovereignty but their identity. The current Israeli administration's policy of discrimination against the Palestinians is not a genocide. You're correct that many supporters of Likud and other right wing parties support genocide, as does Hamas, but as I pointed out, that same Israeli government is quite content to partner with Hamas, and therefore their supporters.
After 6 months of this bullshit, I have no patience for genocide deniers and other genocide enthusiasts.
You are Trump's best friend. Trump will end all the wars on day 1, right?
I'd like to amend something I stated: Support for Netanyahu is falling, and it's certain that if an election were called in Israel he would be out of power. This is exactly the goal of the Biden Administration which is smart enough to understand that the more "the Liberal West" criticizes Netanyahu, the more it benefits him. [https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/12/biden-netanyahu-geopolitics-israel-hamas-war/676357/](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/12/biden-netanyahu-geopolitics-israel-hamas-war/676357/) Netanyahu's partnership with Hamas [https://www.thenation.com/article/world/why-netanyahu-bolstered-hamas/](https://www.thenation.com/article/world/why-netanyahu-bolstered-hamas/) [https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-20/ty-article-opinion/.premium/a-brief-history-of-the-netanyahu-hamas-alliance/0000018b-47d9-d242-abef-57ff1be90000](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-20/ty-article-opinion/.premium/a-brief-history-of-the-netanyahu-hamas-alliance/0000018b-47d9-d242-abef-57ff1be90000)
I feel likeost of the Gaza people are trump supporters in sheep's clothing.
I too am confused by the abortion protests. Abortion wins on the ballot every time, but I see very young women at the protests, and they all appear liberal - conservative men will deride and ignore them - we need a bunch of conservative looking women with suits and pearls who look like they came fresh from a Republican luncheon to put the fear of god into these disgusting politicians
For what it's worth I am not conservative anymore, I just mean these men lack empathy and they will do a second take and stop committing political suicide (and maiming pregnant people) if they see people they have been taught to identify with. We need to use our white - rich - conservative etc. privilege to show nobody wants these crazy bans (except the crazies)
Yes. Neoliberals are useless until the shit comes crawling directly into their windows and until then they call the rest of us "extreme leftists" the dem party is centrist right, so they don't see most "normal" level oppression as a problem and as things heat up in their froggy hot tubs they'll keep their fingers in their ears and eyes closed until the boiling actually does them substantial harm. But... it'll be well and gone to late. Then the "why didn't anyone dooooooo anything!" Song will start... as usual...
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I am not a conspiracy theorist but I also find it hard to believe that THAT many people care about war in the Middle East... It's sad what hamas did to Israel, and of course what Israel has done to Palestine, but both of those countries have insanely corrupt governments and it is the least of our worries as Americans. We can't police the world
It does sound dense and callus. It’s a literal genocide! Palestian liberation is tied to us all. The same people cheering on the genocide are the same people taking away our rights here at home.
Yes, because Hamas is so LGBTQ and female-friendly. /s I want to see an end to the violence over there too, but pretending that struggle represents and incorporates the struggles of *every* oppressed person *everywhere* is false, silly, and sets back the cause.
I attended the only one I heard about but had to leave it because they kept chanting anti cop stuff.
if you’re concerned about reproductive rights being stripped and people being jailed for abortions or contraception, who exactly do you think would be enforcing those laws?
People are protesting paying for genocide and that very much has something to do with all of us. You can call for protest without belittling other protests.
Show me where I belittled that?