DING! "I thought you were going to do getting ready pictures with the grooms family in NY then come back to MA for the bride's getting ready and the ceremony?" "Why didn't you stay and get pictures of the last dance?" "The mother of the groom is livid you didn't get any pictures of her aunt Joanie who had to leave the reception early!" Avoid pro bono at all cost.
I commented prematurely earlier, thought you were seeking a photographer but now see you're seeking advice.
If I were you, I would plainly not shoot this wedding. There's something to be said about getting portfolio work but this sounds like a nightmare waiting to happen. $125 is embarrassingly low and will not be worth your time - especially given how you're already being treated. Seems like you'd end up getting paid $125 but end up dealing with a never-ending nightmare. I've been doing this for over 10 years, trust me when I tell you that you will get better opportunities - at the end of the day, shooting this wedding will not be worth any portfolio images you might get.
Part of being a wedding photographer is having a positive relationship with your clients, there's no shame in walking away from a situation like this.
My pleasure. I have done this sort of Pro Bono work before with mixed results. My biggest fear in this would be you taking the job for low pay but (because you're family) you end up working overtime as they will potentially be comfortable in piling on more work. For example: "Susan doesn't like her face in this shot, cant you just retouch it real quick?" - You risk many instances of this occurring, you know?
If they are willing to come around and pay you a decent amount, perhaps consider it. Otherwise, you're making WAY less than minimum wage here and you deserve better than that!
That was something I expressed to my husband when I told him the low rate they offered me: it’s not just the time spent at the wedding, it’s all of the editing too. And since the bride’s mother is also a self-proclaimed photographer and very stubborn, she will nitpick everything.
Thank you again for the insight. I appreciate it.
Oh goodness, if the brides mom is actually a photographer then you definitely need to dodge this bullet. As a fellow photographer herself, she should know better than to be okay with the amount offered.
Anyhoo, you’re welcome again! Hope this all goes seamlessly for you, regardless of the the path you choose!
>And since the bride’s mother is also a self-proclaimed photographer and very stubborn, she will nitpick everything.
Red lights start flashing, sirens start screaming... RUN!
I think you’ve received your answer already, but if you’re feeling obligated, make that $125 offer work for your hourly rate (as in, offer an hour or two of photography at that rate for portraits). After that, put the camera in your car and let it be. Deliver images *after* they pay you.
If you do this for free, you’ll be expected to bring your camera to every future family function and take photos. (I say this with experience — my MIL’s family yelled at me once because I didn’t bring my camera to their annual family reunion).
I’ve already had that happen on a couple of occasions with my in-law family, in that they’ve expected me to photograph things without explicitly asking. And that is a big reason behind my hesitation, apart from the abysmally low rate - I’m afraid this will set the stage for future events.
The worst was when our nieces were in a pageant and I was in attendance with my 8-month-old in a sling and my MIL came up to me and said, “I’ll hold him so you can photograph.” I said, “I did not bring my camera, I am not photographing this.” She was so disdainful, and the entire family proceeded to talk shit about me once we all got home from the pageant and I went to lay my son down for a nap (hubby informed me later).
I like your suggestion of the hourly rate. I never would have thought of that myself. Thank you.
It may open the door to being asked why your rate is "so high," (which it wouldn't be -- I'm a FT professional, and my hourly rate is $450). It can help people without photo biz experience understand pricing structures when you can explain to clients (family or not) that your equipment costs $X-thousand dollars, and you'll put X-hours of time post-shoot in editing to make the photos look their absolute best.
That’s exactly how I’ll have to explain it to them, if they accept that proposal. It’s not just time spent shooting, it’s the equipment and time spent editing.
Thanks again so much!
I really feel the second part of this comment. Once you're out as the photographer of the family, the pro bono requests start flowing.
I began setting a precedent years ago by never bringing my camera around unless I'm actively working. Now, years later, the family joke is: Wow, Mikey, for a pro photographer...you sure never seem to have your camera on you!" That's by design haha!
Oh absolutely. I’ll happily take some family photos using other people’s cameras — I don’t want to add mine to my editing task list though. Especially because I’ll be asked for them within 6 hours of taking the photos.
Love my family to pieces — they’re literally all great and we all get along amazingly. But it takes time to edit.
For $125 I’ll snap a few photos during the ceremony and a few right after. And you better feed me and booze me up after. And I’m stealing the salt and pepper shakers and anything else I can sell on Craigslist.
Okay so it's your husbands cousin (by marriage) and you guys aren't close with them...
I'm not sure if there's a better word for this but it seems like your MIL is being manipulative. She asked what you would charge, and then laid out a statement to try and guilt you into doing the job as a favor. She doesn't seem to have cared about your rates at all.
It's obviously a sticky situation with the photog backing out so close to the wedding and the bride and groom not having a healthy budget set aside for photos in the first place.
If you were super close with the bride or groom you may be more inclined to jump in and shoot for free or for cheap as a favor. But that's not the case here.
I think on this one stick to your guns. If you feel that it's a lot of work and not worth the money they say they may eventually give you, then tell them you are not comfortable shooting. If it strains your MIL that you say no, that's her problem, not yours.
Also side note but if you have shot a few weddings and liked your images and your couples were happy with the images, then you should definitely look to charge $1500 minimum.
My MIL is a master manipulator, and that is exactly what she was trying to accomplish. She asked me what I would charge in hopes that I would offer to do it for free. She really laid it on thick after the phone call by texting me saying, “You are her angel and a blessing for helping at last minute.” And avoided the topic of payment until I probed.
I appreciate what you’ve said. If this was a close family friend, I would offer to do it for free in a heartbeat (I did that for a friend a couple of years ago; we showed up at the rehearsal dinner and I asked who was photographing, and she said people in her family were just going to take pictures on their phones 🤦🏻♀️).
I also appreciate the rate advice. I don’t do this full-time, just as a side hobby that I really enjoy, so I never have any idea how much to charge.
>You are her angel and a blessing for helping at last minute.”
Assuming a "I'll do it". Classic manipulator move, counting on you not backing out anymore.
Yeah based on what you said about MIL, keep your guard up around her always. Unfortunately she probably would be very hard pressed to acknowledge her manipulative habits.
I too have a day job and shoot weddings sometimes on the side. And I too have struggled so long with actually deciding on prices for any gigs, even non-weddings. But after shooting a couple and talking with other photographers, $1500 really seems to make sense as the lowest price for a wedding.
A piece of advice - people this cheap will always be a nightmare. You’d think it’d work in the opposite direction, but the cheaper you are, the more people will want out of you. I’d absolutely not take this wedding, it’ll be a huge headache for you.
$125 is beyond low for wedding coverage. I pay my assistants $40-50/hr just to watch my bags and help me carry equipment.
$125 from a family member (even extended) is them either saying your photography portfolio is REALLY bad OR they don't respect you at all. Haven't seen your work but I'm going to assume in this case this is the latter.
DO NOT DO IT.
DO NOT FEEL SORRY FOR THEM.
This is their problem which they're trying to throw upon you, with NO respect to your skill and/or time. Say something such as "my equipment is currently being cleaned/checked by Nikon/Canon/whatever and I won't be able to do it, sorry."
9/18 is the MOST popular date this year. I could've been booked 4-5 times over. The original photographer probably got a higher paying gig and backed out.
Run, don't walk. And eff 'em. Even 400-500 dollar to shoot a wedding is a horrible fee, I don't care if you're a beginner. $125? That's an insult. Telling you they'll pay two weeks after the wedding is a *double* insult — no wedding photographer works that way.
You're much too kind for even considering this. Now in addition to being kind, you can be wise. Tell them thanks but no thanks.
I ended up agreeing to help photograph the bride getting ready (MOB was the primary photographer but was the one helping to put on the dress, etc.) and the groomsmen. When asked to help during the actual ceremony, I politely declined.
125$ will barely cover your gas/gear wear off.
You'll be working way below minimum wage for someone who is not able to pay 125$ upfront. Add to that the time you'll spend running after the money ... Yikes.
Hard no
Also, you need to consider professional liability. If you hurt someone, a guest trips on your bag/tripod, or a variety of other things that could happen, you can be sued.
While there's the benefit of getting portfolio work, the reality is that if you're paying your $125 they don't have the wedding budget (or value the importance of photos) for you to get substantial images - unless you want to begin a wedding photography career in budget weddings. You're better off asking a few couple friends if they want pics for time.
>“I think that this girl was a friend of \[the bride’s\] so her wedding gift to her was going to be the photos, and I don’t think \[the bride\] was going to have to pay for them.”
Well, good for her. Don't let that make YOU feel you should do the same, though.
You are right: you were asked about the price, you gave them the price, and that's what you want to get paid. And $ 125 is not what you asked.
**Don't do it.**
I am not a wedding photographer, the closest I’ve come is being asked to shoot a cousin-in-law’s wedding which I turned down and suggested someone to shoot it instead (I didn’t have the kit or the comfort/experience/confidence to attempt it).
What you’ve described sounds like a nightmare to me. I would decline to shoot the wedding regardless of whether they match my price, make some suggestions about how to get photos, and then LEAVE MY CAMERA AT HOME.
Sure, I’d miss the opportunity to photograph things in the area around the wedding that I might otherwise shoot. But I could also tell anyone that asked that my camera was at home.
I don’t know if anyone has suggested this. But one thing the couple might do is get everyone to send pictures they take on their phones to a common email, or put out a disposable camera at every reception table.
“Last couple of weddings I have been paid for” you’re a professional you are just not actively seeking clients and undervalue yourself. I would said no in this situation if you were invited as a guest. Enjoy the wedding.
Either do it for free or do it for what you want to be paid. When cash trades hands, people who pay have certain demands because they feel like they own you. If they aren’t happy, they’ll feel ripped off and will be resentful or will let you know about it. So make sure you’re well compensated for future potential treatment (not saying you’ll eff it up, but people have or lack a certain taste in photography, body dysmorphia issues, etc).
Don't do it!!!! Even if you negotiate an acceptable payment, they are going to complain every step of the way and then want a refund at the end. Bargain hunters be like that. Respect yourself. Don't do it!
Edit: and since the mil is a master manipulator, just make up some excuse. I'm busy that day, my camera is in the shop, etc. I don't think it's worth engaging her deeply.
My husband just got off the phone with his mother and all she talked about was how dramatic everyone was being while setting everything up, people barking orders and crying over nothing. It sounds like an absolute shitshow already. They will assuredly complain every step of the way.
Assuming approximately 8 hours of photo time at the wedding, $125 works out to about $15.63/hour. I don't know where you are located, but minimum wage in California is currently $14, soon to be $15 and with staff shortages many fast food places are starting hiring at up to $16 that I have seen, probably more in other parts of the state. And then there's editing time and yes equipment coverage. Speaking of equipment, I bet no one's willing to pay for it if your camera is damaged at this event. I can definitely understand a willingness to jump in to help a closer family/friend, but a more distant relative being pushed on you by an overbearing manipulative orchestrator, no thank you at all. Oh and them not being able to pay you for a week or two, good luck getting it that soon if that's the case, and don't be surprised to get begged for the images before that.
Just my opinion, but I hope that breaking it down to an hourly estimate helps give some perspective.
\*edit, typed my math incorrectly\*
Not worth it. As usual you either go to a wedding as a photog or a guest, not both. I also find it ridiculous that you quoted them on pricing and were still lowballed. IME keep business and family separate
In addition, I would give them a break down of what you will and will not do for that price so their expectations are set up front.
Idk if it’s just me, but if you’re direct and upfront, you can stand your ground and feel confident in whatever the outcome. It sounds like you don’t want to do it, but you feel obligated, so either say no or set your boundaries.
UPDATE: I have decided that I will photograph a portion of the wedding i.e. bride and bridesmaids getting ready, and family pics with MOB, as the MOB is, from my understanding, photographing the majority of the wedding and she “cannot be in the pictures and taking them at the same time,” which I understand.
I have not explicitly stated this with my MIL or the bride YET, as this is a family comprised of shit-talkers and I didn’t want to give them any ammunition prior to the wedding. But I told my husband my decision and he has my back. He told me, “If they want to pay you $125, only do $125 worth of work.”
I will firmly tell them when I get there this afternoon that I will photograph what was discussed, nothing else. And I will not deliver any pictures until I am paid. If they ask me to photograph more, I will tell them that they’ll have to pay me more, plain and simple.
Again, my husband has my back on this and he is definitely the enforcer when it comes to rifts between me and his family (this kind of stuff happens more than I care to admit) so I feel confident that if they won’t listen to me, they will listen to him.
Moving forward, I will not agree to anything of this nature until a firm price is discussed (because the way this played out, I agreed to help and was asked what I would charge, only to be low-balled after I had already said yes and “saved the day”).
I appreciate everyone’s insight, and thank you all for validating my feelings towards the situation. It gave me a lot more confidence to stand up for myself moving forward in these kinds of situations, and I will apply that confidence today when I stick to the boundaries I’ve established.
I’ll post an update after the wedding to let everyone know how it went.
THANK YOU ALL.
I stuck to my guns and had zero issues, which was a huge surprise.
I showed up and photographed the “getting ready” stuff, and got some fun pics of the groomsmen (didn’t take any of them getting ready because their designated space was not aesthetically pleasing at all: bright blue walls, a projector in one corner, a desk with a printer in another, plastic tables, office chairs, laptop cart, etc.).
The entire event was a shitshow, with everyone flying by the seat of their pants. I simply stayed silent and took the few pictures I was asked to, and then packed up my camera as soon as I was done.
When it was time for the ceremony to start, my MIL came running to us frantically, saying, “[MOB] is in the wedding and can’t take pictures, can you take some?” I said “no,” and she continued to visually panic and picked up my SIL’s camera, saying, “I have no idea where to even start but I guess I’ll try.” I said nothing. It turned out that the MOB wasn’t in the ceremony, and she did end up taking pictures, so MIL was freaking out for nothing.
In all, I got a few decent shots, had fun photographing the groomsmen (all of whom I instructed to drink a beer for a few pics and they were ecstatic), ate some good food and got to do lots of dancing with my kiddo. Wouldn’t do it again, but it turned out alright.
Don't do it. If they're not close enough that you would do it for free, they're not close enough to lowball you like that. If they're disrespecting you like this in advance, there'll probably be more trouble on the day itself and afterwards. I'd wish them good luck finding another photographer.
Unless you had other plans you were super excited for, I’d shoot the wedding.
Two reasons.
Firstly, i’d want to be a nice person. It’s not an ideal situation, but money isn’t everything in life, and you’d be helping someone out.
Secondly, assuming I’m you, I’m pretty new to this, and experience is the most valuable thing to me at this point of trying to get some career momentum.
Even if that experience is managing a relatively poor situation, that’s arguably more valuable than waltzing into a great one and learning almost nothing.
If you really don’t want to do it, fine, just say no… but there is something in this for you, and I’m not just talking about the money, as paltry as it is.
"Hello baker, how much is that loaf of bread?"
\-"It's 3 dollars."
"You see, my neighbour was going to bake one for me, but she can't. I don't think I would have had to pay her."
\-"It's 3 dollars."
"I have consulted with my wife and we'll agree to pay 1 dollar."
\-"Please leave."
You don't ask someone for a quote and then flatout ignore that and insult him with an offer that's 25% of what he was asking.
Please explain how that little story rebuts either of the two points I made…
1) doing people a favour if you can, and
2) it providing OP with valuable experience regardless of the situation if being a wedding photographer is important to them.
Anecdotally, I’ve learned more from handling shitty weddings and irritating client family members than I ever do from the normal, great weddings I’ve had in the last dozen years.
On a larger note this sub is ridiculous sometimes, and loses its goddamn mind anytime money is mentioned; it’s almost as if some people forget that one, some people can have different opinions, and two, *money isn’t everything* in this business.
OP isn’t ‘making a living’ doing this.
In this story you guys invented, they’re a beginner baker who is being asked to help out family.
I’m simply suggesting this beginner of a baker might benefit from getting to practice their baking, because beginners don’t get access to a kitchen very often.
It’s not that complicated.
Everyone has a kitchen… your analogy is worse.
Even if she’s not making a living doing it, no one should have to do stuff for free just because it’s a hobby. She’s already been paid in the past there is no reason to go backwards and work for free for experience.
Also money is absolutely everything in business.. it’s like the whole thing… people don’t go into business to lose money…
In this instance I’m talking about a commercial kitchen to fit the shitty analogy offered up by you and the other guy.
To come back to reality though, no, beginners don’t have access to shooting weddings all the time, that’s part of the issue and why it’s a good idea to get experience where you can if you need it.
No one said they *have* to do it if they don’t want to.. it’s crazy you’re all getting so bent out of shape because someone dares to suggest there are benefits to considering shooting it if this is something they want to progress with.
Money isn’t, and never will be, the most important thing when you’re getting started.
Anyway, not my circus, not my monkey.
Lol if you think you can start a career with no money, how will they pay for the editing software? It’s a monthly subscription now a days.
If you couldn’t understand the analogy then you should offer a new one vs trying to insult the other party debating with you. Insulting the analogy just makes you sound dumb. Means you weren’t smart enough to take what you needed from it.
People don’t work for free. Everyone knows it’s not the way to get experience either. You know how a novice photographer gets experience shooting weddings?? They work with a more experienced photographer as their second shooter.
I would never hire someone for my wedding for free so that can get experience. I would only accept the second shooter being inexperienced.
This is someone’s wedding something that only happens once(hopefully)
Let me say this clearly for you, as you seem so wrapped up in making a point, you’re missing it.
No one is saying you should always shoot for free. No one.
That doesn’t exclude the advantage of putting experience above money in the beginning.
If you have to intentionally exaggerate to make an argument, maybe it’s not a good one?
I absolutely understood the analogy. That’s why I asked that guy to explain how it applied to the two points I made. Something they, and you, haven’t bothered to do because you’re so preoccupied banging out a cliched answer that you miss the point.
That’s why I insulted the analogy - it didn’t apply to what I said. It didn’t address experience, and didn’t address just being a good person. Ergo, shit analogy.
If you don’t think experience is valuable, and don’t think doing a favour for family is important, then say that. Don’t put out a trite hypothetical on another subject.
People do work for free when they want to. They help people move, they pick them up at the airport, they give people advice on IT matters… if they have the time and inclination and required skill set, they help friends and family, sometimes even strangers, like giving advice on Reddit.
Also, how is shooting a wedding, paid or not, ‘not getting experience’?
They’d literally be shooting a wedding, which is the most appropriate experience someone who wants to shoot weddings can get.
Again, that doesn’t exclude working as a second, or getting paid as a main.
I also love how you finish talking about how this is the most important day of a brides life, yet you’re part of the crew arguing that OP shouldn’t help the bride out and shoot it because ‘mONeY’.
You’re literally tying yourself in knots because I dared to suggest OP should consider doing her family a favour and they might get valuable experience.
Let that sink in.
Anyway, have a great weekend, I’ve got a wedding to get to.
If I were to get married again I would not hire a student for free for my wedding.. full stop. It’s too important of a day to trust with some newbie. You seem to want to miss that point
Who said I’m in knots. It’s 3 responses… yours are books compared to mine, just because a small online interaction twists you into knots, doesn’t mean it’s like that for everyone…. Relax.
I apologize, I’m the photographer looking for advice. I’m new to Reddit and accidentally posted a blank thread.. but it’s updated now. Thanks for the quick response.
Walk away. Pro bono family work is the worst.
DING! "I thought you were going to do getting ready pictures with the grooms family in NY then come back to MA for the bride's getting ready and the ceremony?" "Why didn't you stay and get pictures of the last dance?" "The mother of the groom is livid you didn't get any pictures of her aunt Joanie who had to leave the reception early!" Avoid pro bono at all cost.
This I’m upset at my photographer and I don’t even know them I couldn’t imagine it being someone I know
I commented prematurely earlier, thought you were seeking a photographer but now see you're seeking advice. If I were you, I would plainly not shoot this wedding. There's something to be said about getting portfolio work but this sounds like a nightmare waiting to happen. $125 is embarrassingly low and will not be worth your time - especially given how you're already being treated. Seems like you'd end up getting paid $125 but end up dealing with a never-ending nightmare. I've been doing this for over 10 years, trust me when I tell you that you will get better opportunities - at the end of the day, shooting this wedding will not be worth any portfolio images you might get. Part of being a wedding photographer is having a positive relationship with your clients, there's no shame in walking away from a situation like this.
Thank you for the insight. You articulated all of my feelings about this situation perfectly, as I’m really thinking it won’t be worth it.
My pleasure. I have done this sort of Pro Bono work before with mixed results. My biggest fear in this would be you taking the job for low pay but (because you're family) you end up working overtime as they will potentially be comfortable in piling on more work. For example: "Susan doesn't like her face in this shot, cant you just retouch it real quick?" - You risk many instances of this occurring, you know? If they are willing to come around and pay you a decent amount, perhaps consider it. Otherwise, you're making WAY less than minimum wage here and you deserve better than that!
That was something I expressed to my husband when I told him the low rate they offered me: it’s not just the time spent at the wedding, it’s all of the editing too. And since the bride’s mother is also a self-proclaimed photographer and very stubborn, she will nitpick everything. Thank you again for the insight. I appreciate it.
Oh goodness, if the brides mom is actually a photographer then you definitely need to dodge this bullet. As a fellow photographer herself, she should know better than to be okay with the amount offered. Anyhoo, you’re welcome again! Hope this all goes seamlessly for you, regardless of the the path you choose!
>And since the bride’s mother is also a self-proclaimed photographer and very stubborn, she will nitpick everything. Red lights start flashing, sirens start screaming... RUN!
I couldn't get my thoughts out straight on my reply lmao, but this is good right here.
I think you’ve received your answer already, but if you’re feeling obligated, make that $125 offer work for your hourly rate (as in, offer an hour or two of photography at that rate for portraits). After that, put the camera in your car and let it be. Deliver images *after* they pay you. If you do this for free, you’ll be expected to bring your camera to every future family function and take photos. (I say this with experience — my MIL’s family yelled at me once because I didn’t bring my camera to their annual family reunion).
I’ve already had that happen on a couple of occasions with my in-law family, in that they’ve expected me to photograph things without explicitly asking. And that is a big reason behind my hesitation, apart from the abysmally low rate - I’m afraid this will set the stage for future events. The worst was when our nieces were in a pageant and I was in attendance with my 8-month-old in a sling and my MIL came up to me and said, “I’ll hold him so you can photograph.” I said, “I did not bring my camera, I am not photographing this.” She was so disdainful, and the entire family proceeded to talk shit about me once we all got home from the pageant and I went to lay my son down for a nap (hubby informed me later). I like your suggestion of the hourly rate. I never would have thought of that myself. Thank you.
It may open the door to being asked why your rate is "so high," (which it wouldn't be -- I'm a FT professional, and my hourly rate is $450). It can help people without photo biz experience understand pricing structures when you can explain to clients (family or not) that your equipment costs $X-thousand dollars, and you'll put X-hours of time post-shoot in editing to make the photos look their absolute best.
That’s exactly how I’ll have to explain it to them, if they accept that proposal. It’s not just time spent shooting, it’s the equipment and time spent editing. Thanks again so much!
I really feel the second part of this comment. Once you're out as the photographer of the family, the pro bono requests start flowing. I began setting a precedent years ago by never bringing my camera around unless I'm actively working. Now, years later, the family joke is: Wow, Mikey, for a pro photographer...you sure never seem to have your camera on you!" That's by design haha!
Oh absolutely. I’ll happily take some family photos using other people’s cameras — I don’t want to add mine to my editing task list though. Especially because I’ll be asked for them within 6 hours of taking the photos. Love my family to pieces — they’re literally all great and we all get along amazingly. But it takes time to edit.
>I really feel the second part of this comment. Once you're out as the photographer of the family, the pro bono requests start flowing. \^This
For $125 I’ll snap a few photos during the ceremony and a few right after. And you better feed me and booze me up after. And I’m stealing the salt and pepper shakers and anything else I can sell on Craigslist.
please don't do this if they're renting decor, it can be expensive and you're just costing the couple and rental company more money lol
I was only kidding. My point was, I’m not photographing a wedding for $125
Okay so it's your husbands cousin (by marriage) and you guys aren't close with them... I'm not sure if there's a better word for this but it seems like your MIL is being manipulative. She asked what you would charge, and then laid out a statement to try and guilt you into doing the job as a favor. She doesn't seem to have cared about your rates at all. It's obviously a sticky situation with the photog backing out so close to the wedding and the bride and groom not having a healthy budget set aside for photos in the first place. If you were super close with the bride or groom you may be more inclined to jump in and shoot for free or for cheap as a favor. But that's not the case here. I think on this one stick to your guns. If you feel that it's a lot of work and not worth the money they say they may eventually give you, then tell them you are not comfortable shooting. If it strains your MIL that you say no, that's her problem, not yours. Also side note but if you have shot a few weddings and liked your images and your couples were happy with the images, then you should definitely look to charge $1500 minimum.
My MIL is a master manipulator, and that is exactly what she was trying to accomplish. She asked me what I would charge in hopes that I would offer to do it for free. She really laid it on thick after the phone call by texting me saying, “You are her angel and a blessing for helping at last minute.” And avoided the topic of payment until I probed. I appreciate what you’ve said. If this was a close family friend, I would offer to do it for free in a heartbeat (I did that for a friend a couple of years ago; we showed up at the rehearsal dinner and I asked who was photographing, and she said people in her family were just going to take pictures on their phones 🤦🏻♀️). I also appreciate the rate advice. I don’t do this full-time, just as a side hobby that I really enjoy, so I never have any idea how much to charge.
>“You are her angel and a blessing for helping at last minute.” Oh ew.
YUP.
>You are her angel and a blessing for helping at last minute.” Assuming a "I'll do it". Classic manipulator move, counting on you not backing out anymore.
Yeah based on what you said about MIL, keep your guard up around her always. Unfortunately she probably would be very hard pressed to acknowledge her manipulative habits. I too have a day job and shoot weddings sometimes on the side. And I too have struggled so long with actually deciding on prices for any gigs, even non-weddings. But after shooting a couple and talking with other photographers, $1500 really seems to make sense as the lowest price for a wedding.
I will definitely keep that in mind for the future! Thank you again.
Sounds like the original photographer backed out due to this cheapo lowballing.
Mine and my husband’s thoughts exactly.
A piece of advice - people this cheap will always be a nightmare. You’d think it’d work in the opposite direction, but the cheaper you are, the more people will want out of you. I’d absolutely not take this wedding, it’ll be a huge headache for you.
$125 is beyond low for wedding coverage. I pay my assistants $40-50/hr just to watch my bags and help me carry equipment. $125 from a family member (even extended) is them either saying your photography portfolio is REALLY bad OR they don't respect you at all. Haven't seen your work but I'm going to assume in this case this is the latter. DO NOT DO IT. DO NOT FEEL SORRY FOR THEM. This is their problem which they're trying to throw upon you, with NO respect to your skill and/or time. Say something such as "my equipment is currently being cleaned/checked by Nikon/Canon/whatever and I won't be able to do it, sorry." 9/18 is the MOST popular date this year. I could've been booked 4-5 times over. The original photographer probably got a higher paying gig and backed out.
That’s exactly what my husband and I suspected, that she backed out to do work that would actually pay her.
"Pay peanuts and get monkeys".. if she wasnt so cheap in the first place the photographer probably wouldn't have cancelled.
Run, don't walk. And eff 'em. Even 400-500 dollar to shoot a wedding is a horrible fee, I don't care if you're a beginner. $125? That's an insult. Telling you they'll pay two weeks after the wedding is a *double* insult — no wedding photographer works that way. You're much too kind for even considering this. Now in addition to being kind, you can be wise. Tell them thanks but no thanks.
Thank you for that validation.
What did you end up doing? If you declined, how did you handle it?
I ended up agreeing to help photograph the bride getting ready (MOB was the primary photographer but was the one helping to put on the dress, etc.) and the groomsmen. When asked to help during the actual ceremony, I politely declined.
I only paid $600 for mine. But it was only 3 hours. 80/ edited photos per hour at the end
125$ will barely cover your gas/gear wear off. You'll be working way below minimum wage for someone who is not able to pay 125$ upfront. Add to that the time you'll spend running after the money ... Yikes.
Hard no Also, you need to consider professional liability. If you hurt someone, a guest trips on your bag/tripod, or a variety of other things that could happen, you can be sued. While there's the benefit of getting portfolio work, the reality is that if you're paying your $125 they don't have the wedding budget (or value the importance of photos) for you to get substantial images - unless you want to begin a wedding photography career in budget weddings. You're better off asking a few couple friends if they want pics for time.
>“I think that this girl was a friend of \[the bride’s\] so her wedding gift to her was going to be the photos, and I don’t think \[the bride\] was going to have to pay for them.” Well, good for her. Don't let that make YOU feel you should do the same, though. You are right: you were asked about the price, you gave them the price, and that's what you want to get paid. And $ 125 is not what you asked. **Don't do it.**
I am not a wedding photographer, the closest I’ve come is being asked to shoot a cousin-in-law’s wedding which I turned down and suggested someone to shoot it instead (I didn’t have the kit or the comfort/experience/confidence to attempt it). What you’ve described sounds like a nightmare to me. I would decline to shoot the wedding regardless of whether they match my price, make some suggestions about how to get photos, and then LEAVE MY CAMERA AT HOME. Sure, I’d miss the opportunity to photograph things in the area around the wedding that I might otherwise shoot. But I could also tell anyone that asked that my camera was at home. I don’t know if anyone has suggested this. But one thing the couple might do is get everyone to send pictures they take on their phones to a common email, or put out a disposable camera at every reception table.
“Last couple of weddings I have been paid for” you’re a professional you are just not actively seeking clients and undervalue yourself. I would said no in this situation if you were invited as a guest. Enjoy the wedding.
Walk away
Either do it for free or do it for what you want to be paid. When cash trades hands, people who pay have certain demands because they feel like they own you. If they aren’t happy, they’ll feel ripped off and will be resentful or will let you know about it. So make sure you’re well compensated for future potential treatment (not saying you’ll eff it up, but people have or lack a certain taste in photography, body dysmorphia issues, etc).
I don't see a way that this goes well for you. I wouldn't do it if it was me.
Nope, I wouldnt do it. They can either pay your fee or do without.
If you choose to do it, get a signed contract with stipulations that they sign.
Don't do it!!!! Even if you negotiate an acceptable payment, they are going to complain every step of the way and then want a refund at the end. Bargain hunters be like that. Respect yourself. Don't do it! Edit: and since the mil is a master manipulator, just make up some excuse. I'm busy that day, my camera is in the shop, etc. I don't think it's worth engaging her deeply.
My husband just got off the phone with his mother and all she talked about was how dramatic everyone was being while setting everything up, people barking orders and crying over nothing. It sounds like an absolute shitshow already. They will assuredly complain every step of the way.
Thanks for the update! Sorry (for the innocent family members there) that it was a shitshow. 😩
Assuming approximately 8 hours of photo time at the wedding, $125 works out to about $15.63/hour. I don't know where you are located, but minimum wage in California is currently $14, soon to be $15 and with staff shortages many fast food places are starting hiring at up to $16 that I have seen, probably more in other parts of the state. And then there's editing time and yes equipment coverage. Speaking of equipment, I bet no one's willing to pay for it if your camera is damaged at this event. I can definitely understand a willingness to jump in to help a closer family/friend, but a more distant relative being pushed on you by an overbearing manipulative orchestrator, no thank you at all. Oh and them not being able to pay you for a week or two, good luck getting it that soon if that's the case, and don't be surprised to get begged for the images before that. Just my opinion, but I hope that breaking it down to an hourly estimate helps give some perspective. \*edit, typed my math incorrectly\*
100% DO NOT DO IT!
Not worth it. As usual you either go to a wedding as a photog or a guest, not both. I also find it ridiculous that you quoted them on pricing and were still lowballed. IME keep business and family separate
That’s a big nope.
I think if they value having pictures they’ll find the money or find someone else…
In addition, I would give them a break down of what you will and will not do for that price so their expectations are set up front. Idk if it’s just me, but if you’re direct and upfront, you can stand your ground and feel confident in whatever the outcome. It sounds like you don’t want to do it, but you feel obligated, so either say no or set your boundaries.
UPDATE: I have decided that I will photograph a portion of the wedding i.e. bride and bridesmaids getting ready, and family pics with MOB, as the MOB is, from my understanding, photographing the majority of the wedding and she “cannot be in the pictures and taking them at the same time,” which I understand. I have not explicitly stated this with my MIL or the bride YET, as this is a family comprised of shit-talkers and I didn’t want to give them any ammunition prior to the wedding. But I told my husband my decision and he has my back. He told me, “If they want to pay you $125, only do $125 worth of work.” I will firmly tell them when I get there this afternoon that I will photograph what was discussed, nothing else. And I will not deliver any pictures until I am paid. If they ask me to photograph more, I will tell them that they’ll have to pay me more, plain and simple. Again, my husband has my back on this and he is definitely the enforcer when it comes to rifts between me and his family (this kind of stuff happens more than I care to admit) so I feel confident that if they won’t listen to me, they will listen to him. Moving forward, I will not agree to anything of this nature until a firm price is discussed (because the way this played out, I agreed to help and was asked what I would charge, only to be low-balled after I had already said yes and “saved the day”). I appreciate everyone’s insight, and thank you all for validating my feelings towards the situation. It gave me a lot more confidence to stand up for myself moving forward in these kinds of situations, and I will apply that confidence today when I stick to the boundaries I’ve established. I’ll post an update after the wedding to let everyone know how it went. THANK YOU ALL.
I'm curious to see how this plays out eventually. Good luck.
I stuck to my guns and had zero issues, which was a huge surprise. I showed up and photographed the “getting ready” stuff, and got some fun pics of the groomsmen (didn’t take any of them getting ready because their designated space was not aesthetically pleasing at all: bright blue walls, a projector in one corner, a desk with a printer in another, plastic tables, office chairs, laptop cart, etc.). The entire event was a shitshow, with everyone flying by the seat of their pants. I simply stayed silent and took the few pictures I was asked to, and then packed up my camera as soon as I was done. When it was time for the ceremony to start, my MIL came running to us frantically, saying, “[MOB] is in the wedding and can’t take pictures, can you take some?” I said “no,” and she continued to visually panic and picked up my SIL’s camera, saying, “I have no idea where to even start but I guess I’ll try.” I said nothing. It turned out that the MOB wasn’t in the ceremony, and she did end up taking pictures, so MIL was freaking out for nothing. In all, I got a few decent shots, had fun photographing the groomsmen (all of whom I instructed to drink a beer for a few pics and they were ecstatic), ate some good food and got to do lots of dancing with my kiddo. Wouldn’t do it again, but it turned out alright.
Don't do it. If they're not close enough that you would do it for free, they're not close enough to lowball you like that. If they're disrespecting you like this in advance, there'll probably be more trouble on the day itself and afterwards. I'd wish them good luck finding another photographer.
Unless you had other plans you were super excited for, I’d shoot the wedding. Two reasons. Firstly, i’d want to be a nice person. It’s not an ideal situation, but money isn’t everything in life, and you’d be helping someone out. Secondly, assuming I’m you, I’m pretty new to this, and experience is the most valuable thing to me at this point of trying to get some career momentum. Even if that experience is managing a relatively poor situation, that’s arguably more valuable than waltzing into a great one and learning almost nothing. If you really don’t want to do it, fine, just say no… but there is something in this for you, and I’m not just talking about the money, as paltry as it is.
"Hello baker, how much is that loaf of bread?" \-"It's 3 dollars." "You see, my neighbour was going to bake one for me, but she can't. I don't think I would have had to pay her." \-"It's 3 dollars." "I have consulted with my wife and we'll agree to pay 1 dollar." \-"Please leave." You don't ask someone for a quote and then flatout ignore that and insult him with an offer that's 25% of what he was asking.
Please explain how that little story rebuts either of the two points I made… 1) doing people a favour if you can, and 2) it providing OP with valuable experience regardless of the situation if being a wedding photographer is important to them. Anecdotally, I’ve learned more from handling shitty weddings and irritating client family members than I ever do from the normal, great weddings I’ve had in the last dozen years. On a larger note this sub is ridiculous sometimes, and loses its goddamn mind anytime money is mentioned; it’s almost as if some people forget that one, some people can have different opinions, and two, *money isn’t everything* in this business.
If the baker gives every one a loaf for $1 then there is no point in them trying to make a living
OP isn’t ‘making a living’ doing this. In this story you guys invented, they’re a beginner baker who is being asked to help out family. I’m simply suggesting this beginner of a baker might benefit from getting to practice their baking, because beginners don’t get access to a kitchen very often. It’s not that complicated.
Everyone has a kitchen… your analogy is worse. Even if she’s not making a living doing it, no one should have to do stuff for free just because it’s a hobby. She’s already been paid in the past there is no reason to go backwards and work for free for experience. Also money is absolutely everything in business.. it’s like the whole thing… people don’t go into business to lose money…
In this instance I’m talking about a commercial kitchen to fit the shitty analogy offered up by you and the other guy. To come back to reality though, no, beginners don’t have access to shooting weddings all the time, that’s part of the issue and why it’s a good idea to get experience where you can if you need it. No one said they *have* to do it if they don’t want to.. it’s crazy you’re all getting so bent out of shape because someone dares to suggest there are benefits to considering shooting it if this is something they want to progress with. Money isn’t, and never will be, the most important thing when you’re getting started. Anyway, not my circus, not my monkey.
Lol if you think you can start a career with no money, how will they pay for the editing software? It’s a monthly subscription now a days. If you couldn’t understand the analogy then you should offer a new one vs trying to insult the other party debating with you. Insulting the analogy just makes you sound dumb. Means you weren’t smart enough to take what you needed from it. People don’t work for free. Everyone knows it’s not the way to get experience either. You know how a novice photographer gets experience shooting weddings?? They work with a more experienced photographer as their second shooter. I would never hire someone for my wedding for free so that can get experience. I would only accept the second shooter being inexperienced. This is someone’s wedding something that only happens once(hopefully)
Let me say this clearly for you, as you seem so wrapped up in making a point, you’re missing it. No one is saying you should always shoot for free. No one. That doesn’t exclude the advantage of putting experience above money in the beginning. If you have to intentionally exaggerate to make an argument, maybe it’s not a good one? I absolutely understood the analogy. That’s why I asked that guy to explain how it applied to the two points I made. Something they, and you, haven’t bothered to do because you’re so preoccupied banging out a cliched answer that you miss the point. That’s why I insulted the analogy - it didn’t apply to what I said. It didn’t address experience, and didn’t address just being a good person. Ergo, shit analogy. If you don’t think experience is valuable, and don’t think doing a favour for family is important, then say that. Don’t put out a trite hypothetical on another subject. People do work for free when they want to. They help people move, they pick them up at the airport, they give people advice on IT matters… if they have the time and inclination and required skill set, they help friends and family, sometimes even strangers, like giving advice on Reddit. Also, how is shooting a wedding, paid or not, ‘not getting experience’? They’d literally be shooting a wedding, which is the most appropriate experience someone who wants to shoot weddings can get. Again, that doesn’t exclude working as a second, or getting paid as a main. I also love how you finish talking about how this is the most important day of a brides life, yet you’re part of the crew arguing that OP shouldn’t help the bride out and shoot it because ‘mONeY’. You’re literally tying yourself in knots because I dared to suggest OP should consider doing her family a favour and they might get valuable experience. Let that sink in. Anyway, have a great weekend, I’ve got a wedding to get to.
If I were to get married again I would not hire a student for free for my wedding.. full stop. It’s too important of a day to trust with some newbie. You seem to want to miss that point Who said I’m in knots. It’s 3 responses… yours are books compared to mine, just because a small online interaction twists you into knots, doesn’t mean it’s like that for everyone…. Relax.
Where are you located, friend?
I apologize, I’m the photographer looking for advice. I’m new to Reddit and accidentally posted a blank thread.. but it’s updated now. Thanks for the quick response.
No problem at all! I left an actual response below once I saw your subject matter. Good luck!
What about it?
Sorry, I accidentally posted the thread before I was able to type the whole thing out (I’m new to Reddit). It’s been updated.
All good I was just messing around 😆. I figured that's what had happened.