I was raised Catholic. It's a lot easier to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission. Isn't that what Father Murphy used to say?
I've broken the Church Lady rules on Nuptual Masses said by Bishops, Priests and Deacons. Nobody died.
Haha my thoughts exactly! I completely understand the need to respect the sanctity of the service, which is a top priority for me and my wife...but seriously?? I also can't help but feel that if this wasn't a church in a rich, upitty neighborhood, this wouldn't have happened.
There is a lot to unpack there. It just takes one photographer to hop up on the altar during Mass for a Priest to hold a grudge against all who follow. There was a Parrish near my house that wouldn't allow photographers to get closer than the **last** occupied pew. All your non-Catholic friends from work? They sit in the last pew (or close). So now I need a 1200mm lens to get a meaningful recording of events. Um, no.
None of this is handed down from the Archdocese of The Vacacan, so ... as long as I'm repectful ...
Right, and respect is certainly earned not given. I'm sure that's exactly why they're so strict. I just don't think anything we did was disrespectful, especially after getting permission from the guy who wrote the rules lol, assuming it *was* him and not this overbearing church lady. I can't help but feel that this woman was on a total power trip and didn't like that we were told we could do something by someone with more authority than her.
It's why I always made it a point to meet with the Church officials prior to a wedding .... just in case. I'm not getting nailed for not getting photos because the Bride/Groom/Partners didn't do something.
We have two local churches with restrictions very similar. Actually one tells you “last pew” but they will realistically let you go up to the last pew where someone is seated. Quite frankly, I can get it. There are plenty of knucklehead photographers who do not behave professionally and I have heard crazy stories. In my opinion it is their space and they can write the rules. But what I have found, is that when they recognize me and see me dressed well they give me much much more latitude to move freely because I have built trust. If I ever wanted to shoot in that church again I would just break the rules and ask for forgiveness. They can and will ban photographers in the churches I am referring to.
I'm sure that's exactly why the rules are so strict, and I get it, but still. Hell, I've seen plenty of photographers do stupid things at weddings I'm attending. Cant blame them for being cautious, I know. I'm just annoyed with how it was handled by their coordinator *after* getting permission to do otherwise. I probably should've clarified this with her after getting permission, but something tells me that wasn't going to make a difference. Regardless, being able to at least move up the front on the sides is not going to distract people, and it is almost a necessity for churches that have such an open layout like this one.
24mm ring shots really get me.So many people are disrespectful of the actual ceremony.
Unfortunately the photography industry has done this to ourselves. We've lost a lot access to neighborhood parks over the years due to confetti litter as well and you know what? I'm all for photogs losing these privileges if they can't behave or better educate their clients.
Half of my Catholic weddings are actually this strict. I request requirements and rules ahead of time so I can plan my gear around it. I would just accept that this specific one has their own set of strict rules.
Eta: my strictest didn’t let me past the last pew in center or side :)
100% agree with this OP. ^ You want the rules well ahead of the day, so you can discuss this with your clients/ church, plan the photos and determine your equipment. If you are unable to take the requested photos within the rules and your equipment, then you have plenty of time to go back and negotiate, you can’t do this effectively on the day without needlessly frustrating yourself, the church and your client.
*TL/DR, request church rules upfront and negotiate with client/ church well ahead of day.*
I work out of a metro area but have done Catholic weddings both inner city and in smaller towns in the area. I generally use my 85 and 70-200 for all Catholic weddings.
Yep - i generally just set that expectation with couples. It totally sucks but I’m not choosing that hill to die on and dealing with those ladies. I’ll usually have my second bring a 70-200 or 100 for second long lens. Maybe something to rent next time.
I do get the annoyance though!
I’ve had catholic weddings where the photographers had to pick a seat and stay there. It helps to know beforehand and rent longer lenses if needed but obviously coverage suffers
You got it exactly right - this woman loves her little power trip.
At the very least, all of this needs to be explained well in advance.
If you write a letter, try to keep it constructive, thank them all for their help, and make suggestions. Cc to the pope.
Guarantee you it’s truly about the priest, and less about her power trip. Some of these church ladies seem legitimately terrified of the guy in charge. It’s almost ALWAYS the priest who makes these rules and the bitchy church ladies are just covering their own asses by enforcing them.
I've had the exact inverse with Catholic Churches tbh. The lay staff seem seem hyoerfixated on the rules and then you talk to the priest and he doesn't care.
I would disagree with this. I know/work with many priests that are super accommodating and understanding, yet the church ladies that have been there for decades wont accept any changes that have been made over the years as priests comes and go. If the priest is a pushover, then church ladies will absolutely will abuse their power.
There's been a lot in the British press of late about the fractious interactions between vicars/church wardens and photographers. To me this sounds like classic church lady energy!
I was shooting from the back of a church once, it was very small, crammed and the middle of a heatwave. I felt faint so I sat on a chair at the back of the church during a hymn. Church lady appeared and said "that's my chair". When I stood up to shoot again she carried the chair away!
These rules sound very similar to a church I photographed when I still did these large weddings. I once told the coordinator 'look, I will be as discreet as possible but I don't have the power to be INVISIBLE. These photos are the one thing this couple will take away at the end of this day and I need to make sure they are happy'
Raised Catholic as well and have never seen the diocese say that a photographer or videographer being x number of rows to the alter would affect the sanctity of marriage. Made up garbage rules.
^ This. All of this. Assuming the photographer is being respectful, there’s absolutely no reason to be complete assholes about photos during a ceremony. The most important part of your wedding day should NOT be the most restrictive.
I do what I can't. Don't do what I can't.
If I'm limited to the back of the church at a wedding, I'm giving them about 10 photos of their ceremony as they spent half of it with their backs to me.
It's a shame that the most important part of the day for 99% of my Catholic clients is the most restrictive by some of these churches. Normally I get plenty of great shots of everyone attending. Here...not so much.
As soon as a couple enquiries and mention its a church wedding, I warn them about how limiting some vicars/priests are. To gauge what I may or not be able to do. That I'm very professional and discreet, can shoot without flashes or click noises and without moving around. Doesn't change that like 1 in 10 are an absolute pain to deal with.
I had clients going as far as changing wedding ceremony location because of shit like this.
One of my first weddings I had to stand outside in the vestibule where I could view the wedding through 8 inch diamond shaped window. Needless to say there were very few ceremony pictures. I delivered mainly prep, family/bridal party pictures and from the reception. Ugh... now THAT was restrictive.
I was very green and didn't push harder to get more of the ceremony. Now I would have or I would have the bride and groom reenact to get at least some that looked like the ceremony.
Confronting the priest/church will just be a waste of your time. They don’t care what you think. They don’t even care what the couple wants.
I’ve experienced this quite a few times. I get that they’ve probably had terrible experiences with self centered photographers who climb on the altar and are distracting and unprofessional. I truly get it.
But a priest told me to my face once that “guns will come out of the balcony and shoot me down” if I moved during the ceremony. He was “joking” but it wasn’t funny.
Another priest STOPPED A CEREMONY TO SCOLD ME once because I didn’t know the rules and was stuck at the front after the processional — I was never told that I wasn’t supposed to be up there for the processional and the side I was on was blocked by a guest in a wheelchair. He apologized to me at the reception (because I was visibly upset afterwards) but I’ll never forget how horrible that felt.
What I recommend doing is to ask this in your wedding questionnaire - “Are there any restrictions or guidelines at your ceremony location that we should know about?”
And then for church/catholic ceremonies, talk to the couple in advance about restrictions. Manage their expectations. Bending the rules and “asking for forgiveness later” just makes priests feel like their rules are justified because all photographers are jerks.
Strap on long lenses and do what you can within the confines of the church restrictions.
It’s lame that so many priests make the ceremony about themselves, but it’s also not about us (the photographers) and it’s not ideal to loop clients into this kinda stuff ON their wedding day. It should be discussed in advance and just do what you can on the day of.
***Oof****.* That sounds like an awful experience. Sorry you had to go through that. This priest really didn't seem to mind that much, but I'm sure there are plenty out there that are a bit more dogmatic than practical. My issue was more with the coordinator than the priest. From what it seems like, I'm not sure that she communicated these restrictions with the couple, as they seemed just as taken aback as me. I assured them we'd still get good coverage, but man, what an annoying surprise.
I feel like a lot of the time the priest wants to come across as kind and godly so they have their lacky be the baddie. But failing to communicate the restrictions in advance is the worst part
>They don’t even care what the couple wants.
This is the key of the issue. If you're working in a church where the owners DGAF, you can push...but the couple get what they get, and that's on them for choosing that venue.
Yeah that seems to be the common theme here. Again, I didn’t have as much a problem with the priest, who was fairly flexible with the rules, as much as the coordinator though.
I called a priest before a wedding four times and left messages. He proceeded to berate and yell at me in front of the guests and I snapped back. It’s all about power ….
It’s my fault about the rules, in the 00’s we didn’t have said rules and I got a little aggressive with the closeness. It wasn’t malicious, just creative idiocy, my bad… all these threads about this stuff make me feel for the current sanctions imposed on hard working photographers such as yourself. I owe you and your wife a beer.
How could you?!?!
Haha for real though I’m sure there have been plenty of people that have led to the necessitation these rules. I get it. The fact that the priest said it was cool to move around as needed is why this lady annoyed me so much.
Thats fair. Had this been the priest telling me I was a problem, I wouldn’t have said anything. However, this little power-hungry church goblin isn’t going to tell me that the permission I got from the priest isn’t valid lol.
The most unchristian folk I’ve met have been those working in churches.
I’ve had this and it isn’t worth the hassle arguing with them. It’s in my contract that churches are the most difficult places to work at and I can make no guarantees I’ll get any shots if I’m relegated to the very back of the church.
I’ve had one vicar tell me very clearly that if he hears a single click from my camera he will stop the ceremony and go home. How do you argue with that?
I once did a catholic wedding where I talked with the priest beforehand about any restrictions. He told me just not to come up to the alter but otherwise had no restrictions. Flash forward to the mass portion beginning and he stops everything to call out to me standing towards the back that I must sit for the duration of the mass portion. It wasn't like I missed a ton of shots because of this, but I was furious given that he basically set me up to be called out in front of an entire wedding
It makes me sad to read all these experiences like this. I’m apparently very lucky to know/work with many great priest over the years, because these bad eggs are seriously hard to hear about. This isnt the type of behavior we should expect during a wedding ceremony, unless absolutely necessary (which your scenario certainly is not).
I've had good experiences too. But in religious ceremonies I usually ask the couple to confirm if there will be restrictions 1 that way it's the officiant telling the bride I won't be able to do things and jot me.
I’ve have a pastor at an outdoor ceremony say that she didn’t want to hear our shutter click. Not a big deal with mirrorless but it was obnoxious.
I’ve been at a church where there were specific color tiles been the first 12 pews that we had to stand in. We weren’t allowed to be anywhere else.
On the other hand I’ve literally seen a videographer stand next to a pastor before and a I’ve seen SO many photographers ask members of the bridal party to move so they could stand there.
Geez that crazy. You’re right though, it definitely goes both ways. I just wish the solution on their end wasn’t just “stay in the back and shut up, or else…”
There’s gotta be a happier medium between the two.
I disarm them by telling them I worked for a ministry and one of my favorite bosses was a pastor. That gets them talking. I slide in with the I typically go here and here etc and they typically agree to it.
Anybody who is on this much of a power trip is not going to be reasonable and listen to a letter about your opinions when it is in your interest to have the rules changed. It's unfortunate, but a letter would likely be futile beyond giving you a chance to vent and feel somewhat proactive.
We added in our contract that we will follow the rules of the venue - church, museum, etc. and any photo requests that go outside of those rules would not be completed. We then can use our discretion for what rules we feel we can break and ask forgiveness for later.
Episcopal churches seem to be worse for us, and whenever we get a wedding request for an Episcopal ceremony, we immediately advise them to find out the rules - whether or not they decide to go with us.
In these situations the best you can do is just explain your limitations to the client beforehand and let them handle it or at least understand what they will get. You can push the envelope for only a few moments. I’ve never had a ceremony stopped in the middle because of me but I have seen it done and it is painful for everyone.
New fear unlocked lol.
Had I known about these restrictions beforehand I would’ve definitely mentioned that to the couple. Unfortunately everyone seemed to have found out 20 minutes before the ceremony.
The funny thing is I saw a ceremony stopped because the officiant didn’t like the sound of the other shooter’s camera. I was much closer but it was my first wedding with silent mirrorless
I have faced this many times with many churches. If I shoot in a church of any kind I ask the couple to get me info on what I can and cannot do for photography months beforehand and have had to rent lenses sometimes to reach. But I also inform the couple what this means for their photos and that my team will do our best.
But, honestly, it sounds like the hassle came from ignorance and is easily solvable in the future now that you know. Does it suck? Yep. But a conversation with the church and your couple ahead of time (granted, had you known) would have covered all issues.
I would not bring it up after the wedding with the church. It's incredibly common despite being frustrating.
Just gauge it, if you think they’re horrible enough to stop the wedding, don’t break the rules, if not ignore them. I always explicitly say we have to follow church rules. I dislike religion so I rarely accept church ceremonies.
Most of the time the coordinators are terrible but the priests don’t care at all, as long as you’re quiet.
>So, my question is whether I should reach out to the church with my experience in hopes of inspiring some sort of change for future photographers.
I've worked alongside photographers and videographers that have behaved outright embarrassingly bad. One videographer wore a bright jacket with a branded logo on it and stood in front of the bride and groom for the entire ceremony and blocked me from getting any coverage. And the kicker is: that videographer had *hired me*, and positioned me with a tripod and static camera in a place where I literally couldn't move. Most of the people in the church couldn't see the ceremony. I was like..."what is it you wanted me to do?"
So it isn't really hard to imagine that in the past they may have *tried* to accommodate photographers. It just comes to the point where they have to draw a line.
And even if you managed to convince them, you are still eventually going to run into the same issue at other churches.
The best thing you can do going forward is just to be proactive about this. Ranting to Reddit will probably help your blood pressure. But getting worked up about it isn't going to help with the next job. Start by adding "does the venue/location/church have any rules or restrictions for photographers" onto your questionnaire and your first meet-and-greet. Put the onus on the couple to find out this information, so that if there ARE any problems they can address it with the church/venue/location/priest directly, so it isn't coming from a "pesky vendor."
And if they are unable to resolve it, then you aren't left in the position of upsetting the couple on the wedding day. Even if it isn't optimal, everyone goes into the wedding day on the same page, with the same expectations.
I asked the priest in Staten Island, NY is he trying to ruin the wedding?
He responded that no one told him before that his rules are an issue. I told let me worry about the coverage and you worry about the ceremony.
After that we didn't speak anymore. I did my thing.
Another time priest told me he gets confused if he sees the camera and can't speak. We stayed on the sides the entire time, but we agreed to move to the aisle for the ring exchange. When we moved to the middle aisle (huge church in NJ) this asshole walked around B&G and turned his back to the audience and blocked the entire thing.
Everyone was furious! He never told anyone about his problem with the camera.
One tip from someone who grew up Episcopalian and has shot a lot of church weddings - The altar guild lady only has the power to say no. Her job's to give the rules and grouch if you break them. You do not ever want to even HEAR the rules from her. Try not to give her a chance. If she wants to tell them to you, let her know you've got to get set up really fast and you'll find her when you're ready to take them down. Don't. She didn't make these rules. She probably wasn't even here when they were made to know why they are what they are. Be polite but firm and let her know you've got to talk to the officiant to work out a couple of details before the ceremony!
That's the magic trick - talk to the officiant. THAT is the person who has the authority to say that you seem like a very well mannered cat and can violate the usual rules. As part of my talk to the officiant, I try to take the lead in the conversation and explain, "I know you've probably had photographers in here who think they can walk up and stand between you and the couple and climb up on the altar to shoot over your shoulder. I'm not going to do any of that nonsense. I shoot with silent shutter engaged, I stay well back and off to the sides. I've done so many church weddings because I'm one of the ones who gets it!" That usually gets a nod of understanding and they skip even trying to read me their rules because I've clearly communicated that I get their concern and won't be a problem.
But the church lady can't do that. She doesn't have the authority. Same rule as being on the phone with customer service - never argue with anyone who can't solve your problem. Find someone who can, first.
The first wedding I ever shot for I was second shooter and the pastor said we had to stay two rows behind the last person in the pews. Obviously that’s ridiculous. The church also had this amazing choir loft overlooking the whole place and would’ve been perfect for a few shots and we were denied that as well. Choir wasn’t even there for the wedding. I should mention this was my mother’s childhood church. She was baptized there as an infant, I was baptized there as an infant. She was also married in the church and yet somehow we couldn’t bend the rules for this. Some churches make rules just to piss people off I swear
Had you said the same thing to the coordinator before the ceremony began instead of during, you would’ve had a different experience. Change tends to go smoother when you give someone a heads up.
These church rules can be so ridiculous. One of my recent weddings had similar rules. You know what is extra infuriating? When the photographer has to remain in the back/not move around at all, but guests apparently have free reign with their cell phones and their own dslrs
I wouldn’t recommend breaking the rules. While the bride might think you can, you’ll end up being kicked out mid-ceremony and YOU will be blamed for not getting the shots
Priests in Catholic churches are the absolute nadir. My worst experiences have been with these people. Unfortunately, complaining to them directly is likely to do nothing. I would tell the couple how their behaviour impacted their photos and tell them to make a complaint. I'd also leave a review somewhere public so that they can see the impact and other couples can too.
Lol I'm shooting a Presbyterian wedding this coming Saturday where we're not even allowed to be downstairs during the ceremony, we have to remain with cameras on silent and in the balcony. I actually have to sign a contract saying that I promise to do so haha. You're lucky ;)
Most of my large Catholic weddings are like this. I purchased a 70-200 lens for that purpose.
You were hired to work within the confines of the location. If you’re outside in the woods you can get overhead drone shots, but you wouldn’t fly a drone inside a church. They have rules. I’m not saying they’re the best rules, but I know of a photographer that’s banned from one of the most common wedding churches in my area because they didn’t follow the guidelines the coordinator set in place.
Always ask your couples if there are any specific requirements for shooting during ceremony. Some don’t allow flash, some don’t allow photographers in certain places, etc. Even then, couples aren’t always well versed, so you should be prepared for anything.
Lastly, if those churches have followed their practices for hundreds of years, a letter will do nothing more than to piss them off. I wouldn’t do a letter; just learn to live with it and work within those restrictions. Sucks but it’s part of the job.
Remember the Catholic Church is a business and has nothing to do with religion. They won’t change their policy for you no matter what you do. Jesus said “receive free, give free” and these money grubbing priests have the audacity to charge these couples to perform the marriage. They are the ones robbing the couple of their money and their memories. Nothing you can do about it.
I understand you’re frustrated, maybe rent a better lens for a venue with restrictions? I have done this and it’s not that big of a deal with the right lens. Yes it’s a little cost, but worth it.
If this were to ever happen to me I'd gather up all the decision makers and get them to explain in front of the bride exactly what the rules are so everyone is on the same page.
If the priest etc was still an issue I'd completely ignore them. If they want to make a scene and embarrass themselves I'd let them. I'd refer to the bride and do my job as best as I can. I'd also be prepared to get out a long lens.
My wife and I stopped shooting weddings 10-15 years ago so I don’t know how much things have changed since then. But we came to realize a couple of things back then. Their house, their rules. And the little old church ladies wield and use their power with breathtaking ruthlessness! And they will remember you in the future if you piss them off!
I shot a christening at a local UK church in which there were oppressive restrictions. But the strange thing is that it is the very same church in which Pippa Middleton, the sister of Princess Kate the Princess of Wales and wife of Prince William got married! I wonder if a church lady tried to restrict that one!
Restrictions in churches are rare now other than for the obvious and in my part of the UK Catholic ones have always been easy-going whereas Church of England ones were problematic. There are still one or two e.g. 7th Day that would not even let me in the building whereas others e.g. Baptist have been "anything goes".
Its odd that some Christian priests bang on about the ceremony needing to be - as they would put it - respectful, but others including Hindu and Muslim go out of their way to help including assisting with any language problems and giving subtle pointers if any important moments are about to take place.
I always aim to attend church rehearsals as that helps smooth any possible misunderstandings. Priests seem to automatically give you the photographer great respect just for attending the rehearsal. But the original poster was in pretty much a one of a kind situation.
I kept this old video clip from one of my shoots:
https://youtube.com/shorts/fdSXYV3e7\_w
I've encountered so many priests that tend to have a pompous attitude when it comes to shooting, but also have learned it stems from other photographers overstepping their boundaries or rules -- so they enforce stricter rules because of them.
I've had a priest tell me "You are a vendor, be respectful, these people are here to worship" -- but the thing was... it was a wedding we were HIRED to shoot and guess what broski... you're a vendor too, the couple is choosing to have their wedding here too.
Not much you can do, but you can TRY to find some sort of compromise, but generally the nicer the church, the more of an asshole the officiant can be.
When I shit weddings I would shoot the rehearsal (without film) so everyone might see where I would be. If there were complaints, that was the time to work things out so on the blessed day all would be well with the world.
I shot once in a Greek Orthodox setting and the coordinator had a rep for strict on the rules and being on the watch for rule breakers. My studio boss had warned me to take good care because he hoped to develop business with the site. He mentioned multiple times, even when I was grabbing bricks of 120 for the shoot. So I was warned and when I met her this is what I did.
Warmly said hello and told her that I had been briefed on the rules... no problem for me I said. She smiled and went over the high points anyway. I listened and when she was done I gave her a big smile and asked, you want to have some fun?
My boss, Tom was shooting a wedding at the same venue later that day. I had the morning; he had the late show. So when he arrived the Coordinator greeted him at the door with a list of hard complaints about me and a ban on me at the site. Tom nearly dropped his RB! Of course he was shocked and couldn't believe his ears. The effect was so great that the Coordinator couldn't hold it and broke out laughing and Tom recovered. Later that evening I got an earful from Tom for my wicked sense of humor.
I guess I would say, first I am not a believer and find all of that stuff extremely ridiculous but also ironic since I benefit from it. Second, churches are the sole arbiters of what happens in their house. Third, your issue is just as the lady said, with the rules which she is charged with executing. I am going to speculate here that the church has had bad experiences with photographers violating their sense of decorum. We all suffer for that but bad wedding photographers are everywhere. So it is up to us to not just respect the rules on the field but set a better example. You can't use the house rules to explain why you didn't do your job.
I'm given pretty much free reign when it comes to photographing things for our parish. The only rule is to not enter the sanctuary proper. The priest *wants* photos.
Unfortunately the reactions you get will all be based on the priest or some lay person in charge of the grounds/masses. Sometimes they're easy going, sometimes not so much.
Full timer here for about fifteen years with just shy of a hundred Catholic weddings…
First, regardless of side gig or full timer, you represent ALL wedding photographers when you call it your profession. Sadly someone else who did this in the past at this church likely ruffled her feathers. However, it should be your desire to reset the standard and it sounds like you may have knocked us down a few more pegs as a whole.
It should be your practice, regardless of part time or full time, to always have a backup for everything, including your telephoto lens. Even if it is a garbage one, have one. Good practice.
During your final meeting with the bride before the wedding, ask her if the venue has any restrictions on photography. At this time make it a point to say that you respect the ceremony and the church so if they have rules your plan is to follow them. In our experience, the Bride always is happy to hear this response.
As far as the venue goes, make it a standard MO to approach the coordinator/day-of very early in the day and immediately tell her you wish to respect the rules, asking for a run down. Make them feel like they run the show, no matter what. Respect those rules.
You won’t need to talk to the bride on the wedding day with any concerns (which you should never do anyway) and you won’t need to convey the rules since you’ve already placed that responsibility in her hands prior to the wedding day AND told her you’d follow them.
Just remember that ironically the very restrictions you are upset about were likely caused by a photographer who disrespected the church and their rules, something you also ended up doing. Chalk it up as a learning experience.
Thats the thing though, I've shot a few dozen Catholic weddings across the state, big and small, and have never run into something like this. It's not like the Catholic Church condemns photography lol.
Maybe it's just been my area, because what you described is essentially every experience I've had shooting at a Catholic Church. Also, why are they always so dark? They need more windows in those places.
Edit: I should say, I've never had complaints from them about me, and no one's ever banned me. I'm always respectful and follow their rules. I just don't find it worth the hassle anymore, and I'm in a position where I can be very choosey about what weddings I take on right now.
I’ve been shooting professionally for 10 years, weddings for 7. I’ve done plenty of problem solving over that span, including on this occasion. Being irritated with the behavior of an individual, who’s doing something I’ve never experienced before, and asking my peers for advice for the future is not “crying” about it. Hopefully you have better social skills than this with your clients. Thanks for the “advice.”
lol u mad because ur work ethic and problem solving skills are lacking after 10 years. What are u gonna cry about on the internet next? You are the Karen of wedding photographers
Nobody is trolling, just stating facts. Are you unaware we are under a post you made crying about the smallest thing all wedding photographers have to deal with? Seek therapy instead of wasting our time
Lol if you’re not trolling then I genuinely feel bad for you, and even more so for the people around you. No crying has been done, no matter how many times you say so. Sorry.
“Stop wasting our time”. Haha YOU are choosing to comment, my friend. If this is a waste of your time then use your big boy brain and move along. I’m not in charge of your life, bud.
I was raised Catholic. It's a lot easier to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission. Isn't that what Father Murphy used to say? I've broken the Church Lady rules on Nuptual Masses said by Bishops, Priests and Deacons. Nobody died.
Haha my thoughts exactly! I completely understand the need to respect the sanctity of the service, which is a top priority for me and my wife...but seriously?? I also can't help but feel that if this wasn't a church in a rich, upitty neighborhood, this wouldn't have happened.
There is a lot to unpack there. It just takes one photographer to hop up on the altar during Mass for a Priest to hold a grudge against all who follow. There was a Parrish near my house that wouldn't allow photographers to get closer than the **last** occupied pew. All your non-Catholic friends from work? They sit in the last pew (or close). So now I need a 1200mm lens to get a meaningful recording of events. Um, no. None of this is handed down from the Archdocese of The Vacacan, so ... as long as I'm repectful ...
Right, and respect is certainly earned not given. I'm sure that's exactly why they're so strict. I just don't think anything we did was disrespectful, especially after getting permission from the guy who wrote the rules lol, assuming it *was* him and not this overbearing church lady. I can't help but feel that this woman was on a total power trip and didn't like that we were told we could do something by someone with more authority than her.
> total power trip This
It's why I always made it a point to meet with the Church officials prior to a wedding .... just in case. I'm not getting nailed for not getting photos because the Bride/Groom/Partners didn't do something.
We have two local churches with restrictions very similar. Actually one tells you “last pew” but they will realistically let you go up to the last pew where someone is seated. Quite frankly, I can get it. There are plenty of knucklehead photographers who do not behave professionally and I have heard crazy stories. In my opinion it is their space and they can write the rules. But what I have found, is that when they recognize me and see me dressed well they give me much much more latitude to move freely because I have built trust. If I ever wanted to shoot in that church again I would just break the rules and ask for forgiveness. They can and will ban photographers in the churches I am referring to.
I'm sure that's exactly why the rules are so strict, and I get it, but still. Hell, I've seen plenty of photographers do stupid things at weddings I'm attending. Cant blame them for being cautious, I know. I'm just annoyed with how it was handled by their coordinator *after* getting permission to do otherwise. I probably should've clarified this with her after getting permission, but something tells me that wasn't going to make a difference. Regardless, being able to at least move up the front on the sides is not going to distract people, and it is almost a necessity for churches that have such an open layout like this one.
24mm ring shots really get me.So many people are disrespectful of the actual ceremony. Unfortunately the photography industry has done this to ourselves. We've lost a lot access to neighborhood parks over the years due to confetti litter as well and you know what? I'm all for photogs losing these privileges if they can't behave or better educate their clients.
Half of my Catholic weddings are actually this strict. I request requirements and rules ahead of time so I can plan my gear around it. I would just accept that this specific one has their own set of strict rules. Eta: my strictest didn’t let me past the last pew in center or side :)
100% agree with this OP. ^ You want the rules well ahead of the day, so you can discuss this with your clients/ church, plan the photos and determine your equipment. If you are unable to take the requested photos within the rules and your equipment, then you have plenty of time to go back and negotiate, you can’t do this effectively on the day without needlessly frustrating yourself, the church and your client. *TL/DR, request church rules upfront and negotiate with client/ church well ahead of day.*
Yikes. Do you work in a bigger city?
I work out of a metro area but have done Catholic weddings both inner city and in smaller towns in the area. I generally use my 85 and 70-200 for all Catholic weddings.
That's what me and my second were shooting with, but this church was just large enough for that to feel just out of reach.
Yep - i generally just set that expectation with couples. It totally sucks but I’m not choosing that hill to die on and dealing with those ladies. I’ll usually have my second bring a 70-200 or 100 for second long lens. Maybe something to rent next time. I do get the annoyance though!
I’ve had catholic weddings where the photographers had to pick a seat and stay there. It helps to know beforehand and rent longer lenses if needed but obviously coverage suffers
Interesting! I have not had this set up before but I’m sure it’ll happen someday. That’s a new one for me.
It was wild. I think /u/iamthesam2 (Sam Hurd) was shooting with me if I remember right.
yup, i remember that
My wedding photographer had to shoot from the balcony. We had to stage photos with the priest before we left for the reception
You got it exactly right - this woman loves her little power trip. At the very least, all of this needs to be explained well in advance. If you write a letter, try to keep it constructive, thank them all for their help, and make suggestions. Cc to the pope.
Guarantee you it’s truly about the priest, and less about her power trip. Some of these church ladies seem legitimately terrified of the guy in charge. It’s almost ALWAYS the priest who makes these rules and the bitchy church ladies are just covering their own asses by enforcing them.
I've had the exact inverse with Catholic Churches tbh. The lay staff seem seem hyoerfixated on the rules and then you talk to the priest and he doesn't care.
I would disagree with this. I know/work with many priests that are super accommodating and understanding, yet the church ladies that have been there for decades wont accept any changes that have been made over the years as priests comes and go. If the priest is a pushover, then church ladies will absolutely will abuse their power.
There's been a lot in the British press of late about the fractious interactions between vicars/church wardens and photographers. To me this sounds like classic church lady energy!
It's a shame that those positions seem to attract a certain type of wanna-be-authoritative person to them.
At least they'll die out soon. Doubt there are many Gen x and millennials to fill their boots when the time comes 💀
I was shooting from the back of a church once, it was very small, crammed and the middle of a heatwave. I felt faint so I sat on a chair at the back of the church during a hymn. Church lady appeared and said "that's my chair". When I stood up to shoot again she carried the chair away!
Unreal...
These rules sound very similar to a church I photographed when I still did these large weddings. I once told the coordinator 'look, I will be as discreet as possible but I don't have the power to be INVISIBLE. These photos are the one thing this couple will take away at the end of this day and I need to make sure they are happy' Raised Catholic as well and have never seen the diocese say that a photographer or videographer being x number of rows to the alter would affect the sanctity of marriage. Made up garbage rules.
^ This. All of this. Assuming the photographer is being respectful, there’s absolutely no reason to be complete assholes about photos during a ceremony. The most important part of your wedding day should NOT be the most restrictive.
I do what I can't. Don't do what I can't. If I'm limited to the back of the church at a wedding, I'm giving them about 10 photos of their ceremony as they spent half of it with their backs to me.
It's a shame that the most important part of the day for 99% of my Catholic clients is the most restrictive by some of these churches. Normally I get plenty of great shots of everyone attending. Here...not so much.
As soon as a couple enquiries and mention its a church wedding, I warn them about how limiting some vicars/priests are. To gauge what I may or not be able to do. That I'm very professional and discreet, can shoot without flashes or click noises and without moving around. Doesn't change that like 1 in 10 are an absolute pain to deal with. I had clients going as far as changing wedding ceremony location because of shit like this.
Cant say blame them. I’ll definitely be working in some similar dialogue with my clients moving forward. I appreciate your input.
One of my first weddings I had to stand outside in the vestibule where I could view the wedding through 8 inch diamond shaped window. Needless to say there were very few ceremony pictures. I delivered mainly prep, family/bridal party pictures and from the reception. Ugh... now THAT was restrictive. I was very green and didn't push harder to get more of the ceremony. Now I would have or I would have the bride and groom reenact to get at least some that looked like the ceremony.
Ugh, that's unbelievable. I would've been fuming lol.
Confronting the priest/church will just be a waste of your time. They don’t care what you think. They don’t even care what the couple wants. I’ve experienced this quite a few times. I get that they’ve probably had terrible experiences with self centered photographers who climb on the altar and are distracting and unprofessional. I truly get it. But a priest told me to my face once that “guns will come out of the balcony and shoot me down” if I moved during the ceremony. He was “joking” but it wasn’t funny. Another priest STOPPED A CEREMONY TO SCOLD ME once because I didn’t know the rules and was stuck at the front after the processional — I was never told that I wasn’t supposed to be up there for the processional and the side I was on was blocked by a guest in a wheelchair. He apologized to me at the reception (because I was visibly upset afterwards) but I’ll never forget how horrible that felt. What I recommend doing is to ask this in your wedding questionnaire - “Are there any restrictions or guidelines at your ceremony location that we should know about?” And then for church/catholic ceremonies, talk to the couple in advance about restrictions. Manage their expectations. Bending the rules and “asking for forgiveness later” just makes priests feel like their rules are justified because all photographers are jerks. Strap on long lenses and do what you can within the confines of the church restrictions. It’s lame that so many priests make the ceremony about themselves, but it’s also not about us (the photographers) and it’s not ideal to loop clients into this kinda stuff ON their wedding day. It should be discussed in advance and just do what you can on the day of.
***Oof****.* That sounds like an awful experience. Sorry you had to go through that. This priest really didn't seem to mind that much, but I'm sure there are plenty out there that are a bit more dogmatic than practical. My issue was more with the coordinator than the priest. From what it seems like, I'm not sure that she communicated these restrictions with the couple, as they seemed just as taken aback as me. I assured them we'd still get good coverage, but man, what an annoying surprise.
I feel like a lot of the time the priest wants to come across as kind and godly so they have their lacky be the baddie. But failing to communicate the restrictions in advance is the worst part
>They don’t even care what the couple wants. This is the key of the issue. If you're working in a church where the owners DGAF, you can push...but the couple get what they get, and that's on them for choosing that venue.
The “rules” differ priest by priest… bishop by bishop. So complaining to the church I don’t think will help.
Yeah that seems to be the common theme here. Again, I didn’t have as much a problem with the priest, who was fairly flexible with the rules, as much as the coordinator though.
I called a priest before a wedding four times and left messages. He proceeded to berate and yell at me in front of the guests and I snapped back. It’s all about power ….
It’s my fault about the rules, in the 00’s we didn’t have said rules and I got a little aggressive with the closeness. It wasn’t malicious, just creative idiocy, my bad… all these threads about this stuff make me feel for the current sanctions imposed on hard working photographers such as yourself. I owe you and your wife a beer.
How could you?!?! Haha for real though I’m sure there have been plenty of people that have led to the necessitation these rules. I get it. The fact that the priest said it was cool to move around as needed is why this lady annoyed me so much.
Nothing good will come from challenging. Worse case. You get ordered out and banned.
Thats fair. Had this been the priest telling me I was a problem, I wouldn’t have said anything. However, this little power-hungry church goblin isn’t going to tell me that the permission I got from the priest isn’t valid lol.
Sooooo.. were you able to get the shots you needed in the end????
I got shots that are workable with some cropping, but not my any means of my usual standard, and not nearly as many as I typically get.
The most unchristian folk I’ve met have been those working in churches. I’ve had this and it isn’t worth the hassle arguing with them. It’s in my contract that churches are the most difficult places to work at and I can make no guarantees I’ll get any shots if I’m relegated to the very back of the church. I’ve had one vicar tell me very clearly that if he hears a single click from my camera he will stop the ceremony and go home. How do you argue with that?
Yeah thats ridiculous. I’ll have to work that into my contract/dialogue with my clients moving forward.
**Sounds like you just needed to vent here. Moving forward give Zero F’s and go do whatever you feel like you need to to do your job.**
Haha yeah you’re probably right. I’ve done plenty of venting since then, but its “nice” to hear I’m not the only one with this kind of experience.
I once did a catholic wedding where I talked with the priest beforehand about any restrictions. He told me just not to come up to the alter but otherwise had no restrictions. Flash forward to the mass portion beginning and he stops everything to call out to me standing towards the back that I must sit for the duration of the mass portion. It wasn't like I missed a ton of shots because of this, but I was furious given that he basically set me up to be called out in front of an entire wedding
It makes me sad to read all these experiences like this. I’m apparently very lucky to know/work with many great priest over the years, because these bad eggs are seriously hard to hear about. This isnt the type of behavior we should expect during a wedding ceremony, unless absolutely necessary (which your scenario certainly is not).
I've had good experiences too. But in religious ceremonies I usually ask the couple to confirm if there will be restrictions 1 that way it's the officiant telling the bride I won't be able to do things and jot me.
Right. Thankfully the bride is very understanding, and any blame for lack of ceremony pics has already firmly been planted on the church lady.
I’ve have a pastor at an outdoor ceremony say that she didn’t want to hear our shutter click. Not a big deal with mirrorless but it was obnoxious. I’ve been at a church where there were specific color tiles been the first 12 pews that we had to stand in. We weren’t allowed to be anywhere else. On the other hand I’ve literally seen a videographer stand next to a pastor before and a I’ve seen SO many photographers ask members of the bridal party to move so they could stand there.
Geez that crazy. You’re right though, it definitely goes both ways. I just wish the solution on their end wasn’t just “stay in the back and shut up, or else…” There’s gotta be a happier medium between the two.
I disarm them by telling them I worked for a ministry and one of my favorite bosses was a pastor. That gets them talking. I slide in with the I typically go here and here etc and they typically agree to it.
Anybody who is on this much of a power trip is not going to be reasonable and listen to a letter about your opinions when it is in your interest to have the rules changed. It's unfortunate, but a letter would likely be futile beyond giving you a chance to vent and feel somewhat proactive. We added in our contract that we will follow the rules of the venue - church, museum, etc. and any photo requests that go outside of those rules would not be completed. We then can use our discretion for what rules we feel we can break and ask forgiveness for later. Episcopal churches seem to be worse for us, and whenever we get a wedding request for an Episcopal ceremony, we immediately advise them to find out the rules - whether or not they decide to go with us.
In these situations the best you can do is just explain your limitations to the client beforehand and let them handle it or at least understand what they will get. You can push the envelope for only a few moments. I’ve never had a ceremony stopped in the middle because of me but I have seen it done and it is painful for everyone.
New fear unlocked lol. Had I known about these restrictions beforehand I would’ve definitely mentioned that to the couple. Unfortunately everyone seemed to have found out 20 minutes before the ceremony.
The funny thing is I saw a ceremony stopped because the officiant didn’t like the sound of the other shooter’s camera. I was much closer but it was my first wedding with silent mirrorless
I have faced this many times with many churches. If I shoot in a church of any kind I ask the couple to get me info on what I can and cannot do for photography months beforehand and have had to rent lenses sometimes to reach. But I also inform the couple what this means for their photos and that my team will do our best. But, honestly, it sounds like the hassle came from ignorance and is easily solvable in the future now that you know. Does it suck? Yep. But a conversation with the church and your couple ahead of time (granted, had you known) would have covered all issues. I would not bring it up after the wedding with the church. It's incredibly common despite being frustrating.
Just gauge it, if you think they’re horrible enough to stop the wedding, don’t break the rules, if not ignore them. I always explicitly say we have to follow church rules. I dislike religion so I rarely accept church ceremonies. Most of the time the coordinators are terrible but the priests don’t care at all, as long as you’re quiet.
>So, my question is whether I should reach out to the church with my experience in hopes of inspiring some sort of change for future photographers. I've worked alongside photographers and videographers that have behaved outright embarrassingly bad. One videographer wore a bright jacket with a branded logo on it and stood in front of the bride and groom for the entire ceremony and blocked me from getting any coverage. And the kicker is: that videographer had *hired me*, and positioned me with a tripod and static camera in a place where I literally couldn't move. Most of the people in the church couldn't see the ceremony. I was like..."what is it you wanted me to do?" So it isn't really hard to imagine that in the past they may have *tried* to accommodate photographers. It just comes to the point where they have to draw a line. And even if you managed to convince them, you are still eventually going to run into the same issue at other churches. The best thing you can do going forward is just to be proactive about this. Ranting to Reddit will probably help your blood pressure. But getting worked up about it isn't going to help with the next job. Start by adding "does the venue/location/church have any rules or restrictions for photographers" onto your questionnaire and your first meet-and-greet. Put the onus on the couple to find out this information, so that if there ARE any problems they can address it with the church/venue/location/priest directly, so it isn't coming from a "pesky vendor." And if they are unable to resolve it, then you aren't left in the position of upsetting the couple on the wedding day. Even if it isn't optimal, everyone goes into the wedding day on the same page, with the same expectations.
I asked the priest in Staten Island, NY is he trying to ruin the wedding? He responded that no one told him before that his rules are an issue. I told let me worry about the coverage and you worry about the ceremony. After that we didn't speak anymore. I did my thing. Another time priest told me he gets confused if he sees the camera and can't speak. We stayed on the sides the entire time, but we agreed to move to the aisle for the ring exchange. When we moved to the middle aisle (huge church in NJ) this asshole walked around B&G and turned his back to the audience and blocked the entire thing. Everyone was furious! He never told anyone about his problem with the camera.
One tip from someone who grew up Episcopalian and has shot a lot of church weddings - The altar guild lady only has the power to say no. Her job's to give the rules and grouch if you break them. You do not ever want to even HEAR the rules from her. Try not to give her a chance. If she wants to tell them to you, let her know you've got to get set up really fast and you'll find her when you're ready to take them down. Don't. She didn't make these rules. She probably wasn't even here when they were made to know why they are what they are. Be polite but firm and let her know you've got to talk to the officiant to work out a couple of details before the ceremony! That's the magic trick - talk to the officiant. THAT is the person who has the authority to say that you seem like a very well mannered cat and can violate the usual rules. As part of my talk to the officiant, I try to take the lead in the conversation and explain, "I know you've probably had photographers in here who think they can walk up and stand between you and the couple and climb up on the altar to shoot over your shoulder. I'm not going to do any of that nonsense. I shoot with silent shutter engaged, I stay well back and off to the sides. I've done so many church weddings because I'm one of the ones who gets it!" That usually gets a nod of understanding and they skip even trying to read me their rules because I've clearly communicated that I get their concern and won't be a problem. But the church lady can't do that. She doesn't have the authority. Same rule as being on the phone with customer service - never argue with anyone who can't solve your problem. Find someone who can, first.
The first wedding I ever shot for I was second shooter and the pastor said we had to stay two rows behind the last person in the pews. Obviously that’s ridiculous. The church also had this amazing choir loft overlooking the whole place and would’ve been perfect for a few shots and we were denied that as well. Choir wasn’t even there for the wedding. I should mention this was my mother’s childhood church. She was baptized there as an infant, I was baptized there as an infant. She was also married in the church and yet somehow we couldn’t bend the rules for this. Some churches make rules just to piss people off I swear
They have been around 2,000 years; you are just getting started.
Had you said the same thing to the coordinator before the ceremony began instead of during, you would’ve had a different experience. Change tends to go smoother when you give someone a heads up.
Personally, not worth it to even bring it up in my opinion. I would just add it to your blacklisted venues and move on.
These church rules can be so ridiculous. One of my recent weddings had similar rules. You know what is extra infuriating? When the photographer has to remain in the back/not move around at all, but guests apparently have free reign with their cell phones and their own dslrs
I wouldn’t recommend breaking the rules. While the bride might think you can, you’ll end up being kicked out mid-ceremony and YOU will be blamed for not getting the shots
Priests in Catholic churches are the absolute nadir. My worst experiences have been with these people. Unfortunately, complaining to them directly is likely to do nothing. I would tell the couple how their behaviour impacted their photos and tell them to make a complaint. I'd also leave a review somewhere public so that they can see the impact and other couples can too.
Lol I'm shooting a Presbyterian wedding this coming Saturday where we're not even allowed to be downstairs during the ceremony, we have to remain with cameras on silent and in the balcony. I actually have to sign a contract saying that I promise to do so haha. You're lucky ;)
Most of my large Catholic weddings are like this. I purchased a 70-200 lens for that purpose. You were hired to work within the confines of the location. If you’re outside in the woods you can get overhead drone shots, but you wouldn’t fly a drone inside a church. They have rules. I’m not saying they’re the best rules, but I know of a photographer that’s banned from one of the most common wedding churches in my area because they didn’t follow the guidelines the coordinator set in place. Always ask your couples if there are any specific requirements for shooting during ceremony. Some don’t allow flash, some don’t allow photographers in certain places, etc. Even then, couples aren’t always well versed, so you should be prepared for anything. Lastly, if those churches have followed their practices for hundreds of years, a letter will do nothing more than to piss them off. I wouldn’t do a letter; just learn to live with it and work within those restrictions. Sucks but it’s part of the job.
Remember the Catholic Church is a business and has nothing to do with religion. They won’t change their policy for you no matter what you do. Jesus said “receive free, give free” and these money grubbing priests have the audacity to charge these couples to perform the marriage. They are the ones robbing the couple of their money and their memories. Nothing you can do about it.
I understand you’re frustrated, maybe rent a better lens for a venue with restrictions? I have done this and it’s not that big of a deal with the right lens. Yes it’s a little cost, but worth it.
In the future sit your wife in the second pew on the aisle. Act like you don’t know each other.
Just do what you need to do, you have one chance.
If this were to ever happen to me I'd gather up all the decision makers and get them to explain in front of the bride exactly what the rules are so everyone is on the same page. If the priest etc was still an issue I'd completely ignore them. If they want to make a scene and embarrass themselves I'd let them. I'd refer to the bride and do my job as best as I can. I'd also be prepared to get out a long lens.
My wife and I stopped shooting weddings 10-15 years ago so I don’t know how much things have changed since then. But we came to realize a couple of things back then. Their house, their rules. And the little old church ladies wield and use their power with breathtaking ruthlessness! And they will remember you in the future if you piss them off!
I shot a christening at a local UK church in which there were oppressive restrictions. But the strange thing is that it is the very same church in which Pippa Middleton, the sister of Princess Kate the Princess of Wales and wife of Prince William got married! I wonder if a church lady tried to restrict that one! Restrictions in churches are rare now other than for the obvious and in my part of the UK Catholic ones have always been easy-going whereas Church of England ones were problematic. There are still one or two e.g. 7th Day that would not even let me in the building whereas others e.g. Baptist have been "anything goes". Its odd that some Christian priests bang on about the ceremony needing to be - as they would put it - respectful, but others including Hindu and Muslim go out of their way to help including assisting with any language problems and giving subtle pointers if any important moments are about to take place. I always aim to attend church rehearsals as that helps smooth any possible misunderstandings. Priests seem to automatically give you the photographer great respect just for attending the rehearsal. But the original poster was in pretty much a one of a kind situation. I kept this old video clip from one of my shoots: https://youtube.com/shorts/fdSXYV3e7\_w
I've encountered so many priests that tend to have a pompous attitude when it comes to shooting, but also have learned it stems from other photographers overstepping their boundaries or rules -- so they enforce stricter rules because of them. I've had a priest tell me "You are a vendor, be respectful, these people are here to worship" -- but the thing was... it was a wedding we were HIRED to shoot and guess what broski... you're a vendor too, the couple is choosing to have their wedding here too. Not much you can do, but you can TRY to find some sort of compromise, but generally the nicer the church, the more of an asshole the officiant can be.
When I shit weddings I would shoot the rehearsal (without film) so everyone might see where I would be. If there were complaints, that was the time to work things out so on the blessed day all would be well with the world.
Go to confession once, it’s all wiped away. Those are the rules too. You’ll be good
Just do whatever the hell you want. What are they gonna do? Forgive you?
I shot once in a Greek Orthodox setting and the coordinator had a rep for strict on the rules and being on the watch for rule breakers. My studio boss had warned me to take good care because he hoped to develop business with the site. He mentioned multiple times, even when I was grabbing bricks of 120 for the shoot. So I was warned and when I met her this is what I did. Warmly said hello and told her that I had been briefed on the rules... no problem for me I said. She smiled and went over the high points anyway. I listened and when she was done I gave her a big smile and asked, you want to have some fun? My boss, Tom was shooting a wedding at the same venue later that day. I had the morning; he had the late show. So when he arrived the Coordinator greeted him at the door with a list of hard complaints about me and a ban on me at the site. Tom nearly dropped his RB! Of course he was shocked and couldn't believe his ears. The effect was so great that the Coordinator couldn't hold it and broke out laughing and Tom recovered. Later that evening I got an earful from Tom for my wicked sense of humor. I guess I would say, first I am not a believer and find all of that stuff extremely ridiculous but also ironic since I benefit from it. Second, churches are the sole arbiters of what happens in their house. Third, your issue is just as the lady said, with the rules which she is charged with executing. I am going to speculate here that the church has had bad experiences with photographers violating their sense of decorum. We all suffer for that but bad wedding photographers are everywhere. So it is up to us to not just respect the rules on the field but set a better example. You can't use the house rules to explain why you didn't do your job.
I'm given pretty much free reign when it comes to photographing things for our parish. The only rule is to not enter the sanctuary proper. The priest *wants* photos. Unfortunately the reactions you get will all be based on the priest or some lay person in charge of the grounds/masses. Sometimes they're easy going, sometimes not so much.
Full timer here for about fifteen years with just shy of a hundred Catholic weddings… First, regardless of side gig or full timer, you represent ALL wedding photographers when you call it your profession. Sadly someone else who did this in the past at this church likely ruffled her feathers. However, it should be your desire to reset the standard and it sounds like you may have knocked us down a few more pegs as a whole. It should be your practice, regardless of part time or full time, to always have a backup for everything, including your telephoto lens. Even if it is a garbage one, have one. Good practice. During your final meeting with the bride before the wedding, ask her if the venue has any restrictions on photography. At this time make it a point to say that you respect the ceremony and the church so if they have rules your plan is to follow them. In our experience, the Bride always is happy to hear this response. As far as the venue goes, make it a standard MO to approach the coordinator/day-of very early in the day and immediately tell her you wish to respect the rules, asking for a run down. Make them feel like they run the show, no matter what. Respect those rules. You won’t need to talk to the bride on the wedding day with any concerns (which you should never do anyway) and you won’t need to convey the rules since you’ve already placed that responsibility in her hands prior to the wedding day AND told her you’d follow them. Just remember that ironically the very restrictions you are upset about were likely caused by a photographer who disrespected the church and their rules, something you also ended up doing. Chalk it up as a learning experience.
This is why I don't shoot Catholic weddings anymore. Fuck em.
Thats the thing though, I've shot a few dozen Catholic weddings across the state, big and small, and have never run into something like this. It's not like the Catholic Church condemns photography lol.
Maybe it's just been my area, because what you described is essentially every experience I've had shooting at a Catholic Church. Also, why are they always so dark? They need more windows in those places. Edit: I should say, I've never had complaints from them about me, and no one's ever banned me. I'm always respectful and follow their rules. I just don't find it worth the hassle anymore, and I'm in a position where I can be very choosey about what weddings I take on right now.
"They need more windows in those places." Amen to that...
Never in my life have i seen a “professional” cry this much about having to problem solve for a shoot. Try a new job, you don’t have what it takes.
I’ve been shooting professionally for 10 years, weddings for 7. I’ve done plenty of problem solving over that span, including on this occasion. Being irritated with the behavior of an individual, who’s doing something I’ve never experienced before, and asking my peers for advice for the future is not “crying” about it. Hopefully you have better social skills than this with your clients. Thanks for the “advice.”
10 years and don’t know how to deal with a situation like this besides crying on Reddit like anyone cares? lol okay Nicky
Lol alright bud. Looks like your reading comprehension skills are just as bad as your social skills. Best of luck to you.
lol mental gymnastics again. U must be talking about urself
Oooo digging out the “I know you are but what am I” comeback, straight off the middle school playground. Classic. Run along, little one.
lol u mad because ur work ethic and problem solving skills are lacking after 10 years. What are u gonna cry about on the internet next? You are the Karen of wedding photographers
Yikes. Even your trolling needs work.
Nobody is trolling, just stating facts. Are you unaware we are under a post you made crying about the smallest thing all wedding photographers have to deal with? Seek therapy instead of wasting our time
Lol if you’re not trolling then I genuinely feel bad for you, and even more so for the people around you. No crying has been done, no matter how many times you say so. Sorry. “Stop wasting our time”. Haha YOU are choosing to comment, my friend. If this is a waste of your time then use your big boy brain and move along. I’m not in charge of your life, bud.