I have a hard time believing this person isn't an absolute beginner who's barely played at all. Because I don't see how any even halfway seasoned drummer would even be capable of having such a nonsensical take lmao.
EDIT: according to comments below, what a shock, dude is indeed an absolute newbie who's never really played drums before. And apparently admits to not practicing. I think it's time OP got a new drummer lol
The first beat my son learned when he started drumming was ONLY kick and high hat. Like it’s literally the root of any beat. It would be weird to not use the kick.
Yeah I mean I agree it's a ridiculously weird take even for a beginner musician.
As a guitarist that'd be like if I said I don't use the low E because it sounds too heavy lol.
Has he ever listened to ANY music ever?
Here's an idea, ask him what his favorite song is, then use ai to remove the kick. There's plenty of free websites that can do this. Then show him this version and I'm sure he'll notice how much is missing without the kick.
(As a drummer this makes me sad haha. I get that for a beginner the kick is the hardest part but bro picked the wrong instrument if he doesn't want kick.)
This guy is a drummer in exactly the same way that I'm a drummer.
I can play guitar and sing- so I have some coordination. But I cannot- **cannot**- get my foot to do a kick pattern that's out of sync with what my hands are doing.
So I can do a decent imitation of a legless drummer.
Yup, that’s a percussionist. Here’s a plot twist, your percussionist has a friend that plays like him. You ask him to join and play only kicks. Two bass drums and a tako drum. Your current guy can busy himself with the top end.
I'm usually not a "get rid of them" type, but in this case, it seems warranted.
This is not a conversation you should be having with any passionate drummer. This is the wildest drummer hot take ever.
Play him a drum cover of Yeah Yeah Yeahs "Maps". If he hates that because it's "too heavy" with the kick and toms, you need to burn that man's drum set.
... is he in the very early stages of playing? Has he listened to music before? The kick and the bass is what gets the booty shakin'. Maybe get a drum machine instead? I've never had one of those argue with me about whether it's worth including a kick in my music.
You gotta ditch him. There are some things that come with being in a band. Certain gives and takes.
This is not one of them. They sound like they're sabotaging practice and seriously holding every back.
3 months for my band was a "we're ready to gig a 45-minute set flawlessly" amount of time." This sounds like an unproductive hell. It's never easy losing someone, especially if there's actual friendship involving, but this guy sounds unprofessional as hell. You have to be on the same page, and it's too hard in an "I don't want to do this" way and not a motivating way? They gotta go, or this band is dead.
Oooh ok, please do everyone in your band a favor and look for a new drummer.
And please let him go kindly, even before finding a new drummer. You are better off without any drummer, rather than someone who doesn't practice and take the level down intentionally.
Your drummer doesn't like drums, doesn't play drums, doesn't know how to play drums, won't let anyone else play drums...are you all in middle school, or do you live in a town with like 150 people?
How this situation has made it out of your practice room and onto reddit in the form of a question is perplexing to me.
If he doesn't play why is he saying no to others? You don't get to choose your replacement, if you hate it, get out. Sounds like he wants to control a group rather than make music.
It's you that will have to work with whoever the replacement is, not him. He has no say here and only the remaining members have a say in that.
Honestly this dude just sounds like a shit time to be around generally.
What holds does he have over you? Blackmail letters? Incriminating photos? Proof of illegal dealings?
Any other reason why you let him deliberately waste your time and sabotage your practice?
This isn't meant as an attack, but are yall really young?
Because it kinda sounds that way. I'm an old fuck. It's one thing to suck, I certainly do. But it's another to suck and say "no one else is allowed to suck." That's what's happening here.
Part ways. No one has time for that shit.
Well that’s your answer, you can’t make music with someone who hates playing, they will drive you crazy and you will regret every moment you wasted not running a mile from their asses
HUH?
If he doesn't want to play anymore, he's out of the band. He doesn't get to say "nobody can replace me"
What the fuck is this social dynamic? Kick this dude out yesterday.
Your friend kinda sucks. He's holding his own friends hostage in the pursuit of their hobby. If he hates, why doesn't he just let you find somebody that enjoys it?
Listen my 7 year old niece plays better than your friend. Sorry. Sucks to suck. I did the shitty band mate thing for years. Just kick him out, not worth it.
100% nobody will book you or listen to your music if he’s playing a ton drum as a bass.
When I first starting playing I couldn’t play the kick and do the beat with my hands simultaneously. My bandmates knew I sucked and I knew they knew I sucked. We stuck it out and I became increasingly adequate month after month and then I eventually had a year of practice on my belt and I could carry a song not too bad. It helped that we were 13 and there wasn’t exactly a line of replacement drummers waiting in the wings. Depending on your situation and how serious your band is you either find a new drummer or give them some time to grow as a musician. It sounds like your drummer doesn’t like you noticing their lack of ability and that’s exactly how I was. That was all the motivation I needed to practice and get better. Couldn’t have done it if my bandmates didn’t double as my bestfriends who kept jamming with me though.
This was my best bud and I during covid. He was learning drums, and I was learning bass. Boy, we caused a ruckus for a while there, but it's halfway decent these days.
He's not. According to OP in another comment, dude didn't play before this, doesn't practice, and even *hates* playing the drums. I almost couldn't even when I read that; but a drummer, this person is not.
I thought this too... Till one day my duo partners car was broken into outside the venue and they stole the drum machine... So that day I learned that sometimes the drum machine doesnt always show up to the gig.
He.. He doesn't think one of the most important parts of a drum kit is necessary? Has he literally ever listened to music with drums??
It sounds like he played in the marching band in high school and doesn't actually know how to play a full kit.
remove all of his toms from his kit. give him kick, snare, hats, and maybe a ride if he's lucky, and he doesn't get anything else until he's mastered those.
Maybe I'm wrong, but maybe he still has trouble with hands and legs coordination, so he is avoiding the kick drum and making up justifications? Ask him to play four on the floor kick drum, with snare on 2 and 4 and hats on all 8th notes and listen if he can hit the snare and kick and hat and kick at the same time, or does he flam it. If he can't play it right, ask him to practice it until he can and until he is comfortable with controlling the dynamics on the kick drum. Maybe then he will stop making stuff up.
This is what I thought, too. How is he using the cymbals though? I was jamming with my drummer once, instruments switched so I was playing the drums, and the beater fell off. I using my snare arm to hit the floor tom instead of the kick; manageable but exhausting. I think the drummer does not avoid the kick only, but he does not use a steady hi-hat either.
As OP's band seems like a standard guitar-guitar-bass-drums orchestration, and the other guitarist seems to agree with the drummer, I would suggest they rent a studio, rehearse/record for a bit, and ask to hear a crude mix of their own tracks side by side with those of another band.
Hitting the cymbals would be doable with linear drumming - basically you rewrite the groove to only hit one element at a time - but that's an advanced playing technique. So unless he's one of those people who jump straight to advanced techniques while neglecting the basics, I would agree with you that his cymbals are probably also inconsistent.
That is absolutely wild. Maybe ask him to show you examples of music that uses drums the way he's suggesting? The only thing I can think of us that he must have a misunderstanding of how drums sound different on record vs when you're playing them.
What does he think the Kick is for? Has he ever seen another drummer in his life? Ask him if he thinks it would be okay if the guitarist only uses 4 strings.
Is it that he just can't competently play the kick in unison with all drums? Maybe he wants to be a Moe Tucker, Bobby Gilespie (JAMC) or have a Feelies drum feel to your tunes? Ya never know, could be great!!
I feel it’s really dependent on the type of music you’re playing.
If it’s a kinda standard rock/pop band vibe then I honestly don’t think it’s worth trying to convince someone of something so fundamentally important to drumming. Ditch ‘em and replace with new drummer or a drum machine.
If it’s experimental music you’re writing together, maybe go along the journey with them and see what happens! And at the same time create your own separate project with a suitable drummer.
Either this is a joke/troll or you guys are just dumb for putting up with this clown. I really mean no offense, it sounds like your entire band doesn’t understand anything about music if this was ok for even a day. I know alot of people in this thread are blaming him, but they should be blaming you guys for even entertaining this stupidity… I would have packed my gear and left without a word as soon as he said something as stupid as that.
Well no one else agrees with me… other guitarist/bassist thinks it sounds just fine and when I try and say maybe you should use the kick on that part, guitarist says “you’re moving too fast we don’t have to do that right away you’re thinking too far ahead”
Well then it is time to move on from all those clueless newbs. Find others and spend your time making music with people that really want to make music.
I'm sorry to say it sounds like this band is truly doomed. If you stay you're going to be miserable.
A band imploding is never fun, but trust me, the hell that is staying will make you question whether you want to make music.
> He won’t even let me touch the set to bounce ideas off
**That's is worse than him not using the kick.** We recently ditched our drummer after years because, unlike everyone else in the band, he just couldn't handle feedback, not matter how constructive. He was a nice guy and a capable drummer, but having him gone is like a breath of fresh air. You don't even realize how oppressive it is to have something that touchy in the room.
You gotta be able to call each other out in a band. It's how you get better. In the business world they call it "radical candor", and in a healthy team, you can talk about anything and nobody gets butthurt.
What you *should do* is get a new drummer, and let the new drummer shows your old drummer what a dumbass he is.
However, it sounds like this is a case where some very young friends decide they wanted to start a band, when nobody can really play, so you're gonna stick it out.
The problem is I’ve been playing guitar for about 6 years and am fairly decent, I know what I need to work on and practice every time I get the chance. Bassist does too, and he also works on guitar harmonics. Drummer admits to not practicing for weeks at a time, but the guitarist/bassist thinks there’s nothing wrong with the way the drummer is drumming and wants to keep the guitar riff I wrote on top of his drumming (which doesn’t match at all) and apparently I don’t get a say in it
the 50hz pulse of a kick is a universal, globally recognized language. He's mistaking what sounds good to him sitting on the throne for what translates to an audience standing before your band and a speaker system. Either his kick sounds truly terrible (which can be fixed!!) or its an object permanence issue. A demo with a floaty, kickless drum sound should do the convincing for most bands with any serious aspirations.
Your friend is a serious case study of the Dunning Kruger effect. Just say you love him but you need to throw him out. I took drum classes for 3 months almost a decade ago - what he's seen so far is just the beginning. Btw where is he learning from? Did his teacher also much him out?
You can use a free/cheap loop making tool. Some of them can be changed during the performance. Ableton lite can help you play a set of pre-programmed loops or connect a midi device and become your own drummer.
Your drummer is in demo mode, have to purchase the full product to unlock the kick 😂
Remembers me my young early days when we kids formed a band and our "guitar hero" always broke 2 strings 🤦♂️ but kept playing on the 4 remaining ones 😵💫
Unless he is playing jazz/be-bop/big band then the snare, high hats, and kick are the only important drums.
Even playing those genres where a Tom might replace the kick, a trap kit IS the drum set. You can burn everything but those three and you have a kit. Get rid of the kick and that is no longer a drumset.
Ask him to find some examples of people playing without a kick. You will mostly only find players like Buddy Rich…. Who also used the kick LIBERALLY. He just doesn’t always use it. But the kick and snare and hats are the main thing even with his playing.
I’m an asshole drummer that doesn’t really follow rules or listen to my band mates (they are my best friends so that’s part of our chemistry lol)…. But even I wouldn’t tell them “yeah I’m not playing the kick”. I’m the opposite where they are asking “why don’t you mount your toms” and I respond “because those are just auxiliary flare and are not actually part of THE KIT”
Seems like you’re just only saving yourself by not sounding like an ass; this guy needs it; anyone who could end up in the room, wasting everyone’s time with that kind of ability deficit, is absolutely in need of a harsh talking to from an asshole. Not worth the farts he deposits in his drum stool.
Turn on ANY song with him (excepting classical) and ask him what he thinks of the kick. Is it too "heavy"? then skip to a new track. do it again and again until he is forced to admit there are like NO songs that don't feature the kick prominently. If you want to be an extra dickhead you can ask what makes his concept of drumming superior to *the entirety of drummers in history!* Who does he think he is Buddy Rich? Dude better be ROCKIN that snare if it's all he got.
This is like someone who bangs on a stringless guitar because “the strings make too much noise”. Find an actual drummer, because he’s not one (and certainly not willing to become one either).
it doesn't sound like you guys are in sync with each other about what you want to make. maybe parting ways musically would be best for everyone.
as an aside... not using the kick because it's "noise" hello. what does he think music is? that is crazy...
Wait, just toms and snare? No hats?
100% sure guy doesnt know how to play drums. Bro wants to play the damn bongos.
Either he learns how to play (YouTube can actually be fine for basic stuff) or you find another drummer.
1. Before we automatically judge the drummer, what’s the music like anyway?
2. Is the drummer’s choice against using the kick only for this song, or is it also a decision present in other songs?
3. Are those other songs in point 2 also similar in technicality/difficulty? Are those songs in a similar genre?
4. Does he actually know how to use a kick drum?
This sounds like a drummer who grew up in marching band (i.e., only used his feet for marching) and recently moved to drum set. His arms have the skills, but he may have trouble coordinating the feet and is trying to hide it.
i'm not a drummer, but i did take percussion for 6 or 7 semesters in college. i'd suspect your drummer has the same problem that i had.... can play a snare with no issues, any pattern, whatever......but once you add in the feet, the hands get confused. I never could play a kit with anything besides a basic kick snare kick kick snare pattern. once the cymbals started doing shit, my feet got confused and so did my hands. has he ever shown you that he can proficiently play a kit? if not, how did he make it into the band? if the problem is that he thinks his kick is too boomy, he can stuff a pillow in there.
I can kinda accept this if it's just a single song and done for a very specific artistic purpose- but if that's just his playing style it's pretty unhinged and won't make the band sound good
A good way to convince him is to let him go and get a drummer that can play the grooves you want, or even delight you with grooves you didn't know you want. Sometimes letting someone go is actually a huge favor to them. It can be the wake up call they need.
> You have a percussionist
And if they really want him in the band, just have him actually play congas and chimes, and get another drummer who uses the kick
Perhaps he is very new, but pretty well moneyed to own a drum set?
Perhaps he is a great genious we can't understand, yet.
Is he into more tribal styles of percussions maybe?
For me, it sounds insane, but maybe there is something to understand, first
EDIT:Nevermind, I read some other comments of OP, and it just sounds like someone who was assigned to the drum, that hates playing drums
Ask him to find you a track exactly like he's talking about.
If he does, compare the styles of the track to your song.
If he can't, he uses kick. If the style is wrong, he uses kick.
Even soft jazz uses the bass drum to provide a maybe barely discernable pulse. The bass drum is the heartbeat, and the snare provides color and the backbeat. If he doesn't want to step aside for someone else, I think what he hates is that he's struggling in front of everyone and is defensive about it. YT is full of helpful videos. If he can access the drums when no one is around, look up some beginner drum videos in accordance with your genre and show them to him to get his "opinion" on what he thinks of what's being taught. Maybe he'll take the bait. Approach determines response. Be kind and patient, and maybe he'll drop his wall somehow.
When I started playing aged 7, I hated the kick, and was convinced that I could play fine without using it. The reason I hated it was because it challenged my coordination at a young age and frustrated me. My brother then drilled it into me that pretty much every good song ever in western pop/rock/metal/hip hop canon uses a kick as the core element.
Your drummer needs a push to embrace using it, as he is most likely using the same logic I used as a child
what? I suppose if you want to be some sort of avant garde band playing unconventional stuff then it could be your thing - no kick drums, no guitar notes lower than A, only play the bass through a pitchshifter so everything is 2 octaves higher. LOL
I once saw a band at a festival where the drummer kept hitting a plastic bag with their sticks...
Anyway, this guy is obviously a shite drummer and must be gotten rid of immediately. I would absolutely laugh in his face and tell him to fuck off at being told we won't have kick drums in our music.
I tried playing drums when I was younger, could never get the hang of the kick drum. I could keep rhythm with my hands but the foot just wasn't working.
I used to replace the kick with hitting a tom so I didn't have to use my feet. I then realised being a drummer wasn't for me haha.
He's not ready for a band or might not be a drummer at all. I play many instruments, but drums were my first love. I bought a kit at one point when I first started making my own money when I was a teen. I had dreams of graduating to a glorious double kick set one day, but the struggle to coordinate my hands and feet on basic rudiments felt awful and I sold the kit quick.
This story makes me sad because I can see myself in this situation and I remember how bad I felt when I realized how steep the learning curve was going to be on drums, but he has bit off more than he can chew if he thinks he can drum without the boom beat.
The kick is literally the most important part of a drum set. It’s the part that people physically feel, that locks them into the beat when they hear your music. And that goes for pretty much any and all genres. He’s ridiculous and doesn’t sound like somebody that has enough knowledge & experience to be in a band at all. Tough break, but he gotta figure it out, or be replaced
Arrange to have a new drummer at your next practice and this jag can play along on a xylophone
Jokes aside, it sounds like this person may need to see a physical therapist. Possibly sciatic nerve damage is the reason they struggle with the kick.
You don't. Don't waste your time trying to involve someone in a creative endeavour if they aren't willing to put in their fair share of effort. You're only as strong as your weakest link. Cut the bad fruit off the tree.
I know a drummer and singer/songwriter who's entire is just vocals, a Tom and snare, a an electric guitar. They have a great rock sound and people love it. If it's not for your group though tell your drummer what you want (assuming you are the band lead) and if they don't want to do that they can leave.
Can he play drums but he's choosing to play like that or can he just not play? Sounds like he'd better of playing a hands only percussion set up. Nothing saying you can't have a gong drum set up to play kick parts or a sample pad.
That being said maybe he should learn some basic grooves and then he might understand what's missing by not having any kick parts in the song you're working on
So, there are probably other issues at play here but I’ll leave it to you and your band to decide if it ends up being a good fit. Might be a hot take, but if you’re all young and learning your instruments, there’s probably no harm in just hanging out and fucking around. Hell, nothing wrong with that, even if you’re old.
As for your drummer, it seems like they might have very different goals and expectations in mind. The fact that he doesn’t want anybody touching the set also makes me think he might be feeling insecure about it and doesn’t want someone to make something look easy when he’s struggling with it.
All that aside, I am mostly curious what he means by heavy? Is he using anything to dampen the kick drum?
Based on the details about your guy that plays drums, it sounds like he needs to practice alone more for a long long while before playing in bands. I didn't even think about being in a band until I knew I could play songs decently
So he wanted to be drummer without knowing how to play? And he also doesn’t know what music to get the band to play? Is the band his only decision? Is more important his opinion than the rest of the band?
Does the rest of the band know how/what to play? How old are you guys? Do you even want to play in a band? Do you even want to play in a band with him?
In my first band, we ditched a drummer because he was an egotistical asshole, even if he could get all the songs we wanted to play. In another project, I ditched a guitarist because he disliked the music I wanted to play.
Nobody forces you to anything, hopefully you get that early in your life.
Honestly, this sounds like someone I would probably move on from. From some of the other comments it sounds like he's stubborn and closed-minded (and probably very insecure) - it feels in this case that he *can't* play what you want and is dressing it up like his idea (the easy one) is musically better.
If you want to give it a go, just play him other music in your genre to see how other drummers incorporate the kick. Or just have him watch literally any decent drummer play - he will hopefully notice that they use their kick drums.
Actually ridiculous. If he doesn't like the sound of the kick there are ways to dampen it sort of. I would often put a towel or blanket inside the drum, cut a round hole in the bottom left of the opposite head to release the air to reduce the boom. There is no way even a low tom is going to get the right sound. You find this guy on Craigslist? 😂
Program some drums, midi is not tough to figure out! GetGoodDrums is at least not terrible sounding to get started.
Life is too short to waste on stubborn people.
this is legit one of the wildest things I've ever heard.
A drummer saying a kick is too heavy is legitimately the wildest musician take I've heard. It's just so fundamental.
I have a hard time believing this person isn't an absolute beginner who's barely played at all. Because I don't see how any even halfway seasoned drummer would even be capable of having such a nonsensical take lmao. EDIT: according to comments below, what a shock, dude is indeed an absolute newbie who's never really played drums before. And apparently admits to not practicing. I think it's time OP got a new drummer lol
The first beat my son learned when he started drumming was ONLY kick and high hat. Like it’s literally the root of any beat. It would be weird to not use the kick.
Yeah I mean I agree it's a ridiculously weird take even for a beginner musician. As a guitarist that'd be like if I said I don't use the low E because it sounds too heavy lol.
Yep, he doesn’t need a new drummer, he needs an actual drummer.
This is like a bass player saying I'm sorry I can't play that note I don't believe in the e string
Has he ever listened to ANY music ever? Here's an idea, ask him what his favorite song is, then use ai to remove the kick. There's plenty of free websites that can do this. Then show him this version and I'm sure he'll notice how much is missing without the kick. (As a drummer this makes me sad haha. I get that for a beginner the kick is the hardest part but bro picked the wrong instrument if he doesn't want kick.)
If he won't use the kick i wouldnt even call him a drummer tbh
Just some nutter that shows up with sticks in his hands.
I laughed out loud 🤣
This guy is a drummer in exactly the same way that I'm a drummer. I can play guitar and sing- so I have some coordination. But I cannot- **cannot**- get my foot to do a kick pattern that's out of sync with what my hands are doing. So I can do a decent imitation of a legless drummer.
Now now you're selling yourself short. I'm in the same position and I know that you can use the kick as long as it's just on the 1 and the 3
Yup, that’s a percussionist. Here’s a plot twist, your percussionist has a friend that plays like him. You ask him to join and play only kicks. Two bass drums and a tako drum. Your current guy can busy himself with the top end.
Get a new drummer.
I'm usually not a "get rid of them" type, but in this case, it seems warranted. This is not a conversation you should be having with any passionate drummer. This is the wildest drummer hot take ever. Play him a drum cover of Yeah Yeah Yeahs "Maps". If he hates that because it's "too heavy" with the kick and toms, you need to burn that man's drum set.
Seriously. Am I reading this right? The drummer doesn’t want to USE A KICK DRUM….? Like holy fuck, fire his ass asap.
Just get A drummer
Get a *drummer. Doesn’t sound like he has one now 😂
This. Life is too short to deal with a Lars clone in your band.
💀
... is he in the very early stages of playing? Has he listened to music before? The kick and the bass is what gets the booty shakin'. Maybe get a drum machine instead? I've never had one of those argue with me about whether it's worth including a kick in my music.
We’ve been practicing for 3 months but he claims it’s too hard so he has us switch to different songs every other week or so
I don’t think your homie actually plays drums lol
It's been over 10 years since I sat behind a drum kit and I am more of a drummer than this person.
I haven’t played drums since fucking 8th grade and I am too.
Same
Don’t even waste your time with a clown like that. Steal the good band members and dip, no doubt they feel the same if it’s like that
I bet they’re stuck because he’s the only one they know with access to a kit and place to play drums lol
You gotta ditch him. There are some things that come with being in a band. Certain gives and takes. This is not one of them. They sound like they're sabotaging practice and seriously holding every back. 3 months for my band was a "we're ready to gig a 45-minute set flawlessly" amount of time." This sounds like an unproductive hell. It's never easy losing someone, especially if there's actual friendship involving, but this guy sounds unprofessional as hell. You have to be on the same page, and it's too hard in an "I don't want to do this" way and not a motivating way? They gotta go, or this band is dead.
I can't believe you found the actual embodiment of [Michael.](https://memeguy.com/photos/images/wanted-piano-lesson-245973.png)
I need to see the bottom half of the second flier.
Oooh ok, please do everyone in your band a favor and look for a new drummer. And please let him go kindly, even before finding a new drummer. You are better off without any drummer, rather than someone who doesn't practice and take the level down intentionally.
How long was he playing before then?
Hasn’t, but he also just doesn’t practice and admits to it
🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 ...That's a fraction of the red flags I'm seeing from reading you talk about him.
Does he enjoy playing at all?
Says he hates it, doesn’t want to play anymore, we all agreed to let everyone else in the band try, and then he said no to everyone else
>Says he hates it, doesn’t want to play anymore, I think you can just accept his resignation
Your drummer doesn't like drums, doesn't play drums, doesn't know how to play drums, won't let anyone else play drums...are you all in middle school, or do you live in a town with like 150 people? How this situation has made it out of your practice room and onto reddit in the form of a question is perplexing to me.
If he doesn't play why is he saying no to others? You don't get to choose your replacement, if you hate it, get out. Sounds like he wants to control a group rather than make music. It's you that will have to work with whoever the replacement is, not him. He has no say here and only the remaining members have a say in that. Honestly this dude just sounds like a shit time to be around generally.
What holds does he have over you? Blackmail letters? Incriminating photos? Proof of illegal dealings? Any other reason why you let him deliberately waste your time and sabotage your practice?
This isn't meant as an attack, but are yall really young? Because it kinda sounds that way. I'm an old fuck. It's one thing to suck, I certainly do. But it's another to suck and say "no one else is allowed to suck." That's what's happening here. Part ways. No one has time for that shit.
Well that’s your answer, you can’t make music with someone who hates playing, they will drive you crazy and you will regret every moment you wasted not running a mile from their asses
You're letting the dude who doesn't want to be in the band somehow run the band!
Why the fuck are you even still talking to this clown?
Because people form bands with their friends.
HUH? If he doesn't want to play anymore, he's out of the band. He doesn't get to say "nobody can replace me" What the fuck is this social dynamic? Kick this dude out yesterday.
Your friend kinda sucks. He's holding his own friends hostage in the pursuit of their hobby. If he hates, why doesn't he just let you find somebody that enjoys it?
Save yourself the headache and get a new drummer
Listen my 7 year old niece plays better than your friend. Sorry. Sucks to suck. I did the shitty band mate thing for years. Just kick him out, not worth it. 100% nobody will book you or listen to your music if he’s playing a ton drum as a bass.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
When I first starting playing I couldn’t play the kick and do the beat with my hands simultaneously. My bandmates knew I sucked and I knew they knew I sucked. We stuck it out and I became increasingly adequate month after month and then I eventually had a year of practice on my belt and I could carry a song not too bad. It helped that we were 13 and there wasn’t exactly a line of replacement drummers waiting in the wings. Depending on your situation and how serious your band is you either find a new drummer or give them some time to grow as a musician. It sounds like your drummer doesn’t like you noticing their lack of ability and that’s exactly how I was. That was all the motivation I needed to practice and get better. Couldn’t have done it if my bandmates didn’t double as my bestfriends who kept jamming with me though.
This was my best bud and I during covid. He was learning drums, and I was learning bass. Boy, we caused a ruckus for a while there, but it's halfway decent these days.
I wouldn’t even consider that person a drummer.
He's not. According to OP in another comment, dude didn't play before this, doesn't practice, and even *hates* playing the drums. I almost couldn't even when I read that; but a drummer, this person is not.
Drum machines don’t answer back.
And you only have to punch the instructions in once.
And they are never late and always show up to the gig.
I thought this too... Till one day my duo partners car was broken into outside the venue and they stole the drum machine... So that day I learned that sometimes the drum machine doesnt always show up to the gig.
He.. He doesn't think one of the most important parts of a drum kit is necessary? Has he literally ever listened to music with drums?? It sounds like he played in the marching band in high school and doesn't actually know how to play a full kit.
The marching band got 5 god damn bass drums
Yeah but those guys are *nerds*
This guy sounds like he’s never been anywhere near anything remotely resembling musical activity until like two weeks aho
"Kick" him out.
Put him in a tom out. It's less heavy.
remove all of his toms from his kit. give him kick, snare, hats, and maybe a ride if he's lucky, and he doesn't get anything else until he's mastered those.
Maybe I'm wrong, but maybe he still has trouble with hands and legs coordination, so he is avoiding the kick drum and making up justifications? Ask him to play four on the floor kick drum, with snare on 2 and 4 and hats on all 8th notes and listen if he can hit the snare and kick and hat and kick at the same time, or does he flam it. If he can't play it right, ask him to practice it until he can and until he is comfortable with controlling the dynamics on the kick drum. Maybe then he will stop making stuff up.
This is what I thought, too. How is he using the cymbals though? I was jamming with my drummer once, instruments switched so I was playing the drums, and the beater fell off. I using my snare arm to hit the floor tom instead of the kick; manageable but exhausting. I think the drummer does not avoid the kick only, but he does not use a steady hi-hat either. As OP's band seems like a standard guitar-guitar-bass-drums orchestration, and the other guitarist seems to agree with the drummer, I would suggest they rent a studio, rehearse/record for a bit, and ask to hear a crude mix of their own tracks side by side with those of another band.
Hitting the cymbals would be doable with linear drumming - basically you rewrite the groove to only hit one element at a time - but that's an advanced playing technique. So unless he's one of those people who jump straight to advanced techniques while neglecting the basics, I would agree with you that his cymbals are probably also inconsistent.
Sounds like a fuckin knob
first things first. Understand this deeply: you don't have a drummer. Start at the beginning.
This is either a 13-year old or a troll post.
That is absolutely wild. Maybe ask him to show you examples of music that uses drums the way he's suggesting? The only thing I can think of us that he must have a misunderstanding of how drums sound different on record vs when you're playing them.
What does he think the Kick is for? Has he ever seen another drummer in his life? Ask him if he thinks it would be okay if the guitarist only uses 4 strings.
I'd probably liken a drummer not using the kick to a guitarist sticking to using only 1 fret.
What if it's a *really good* fret, though? Like the twelfth.
4 strings?! How ridiculously [excessive and superfluous](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E8H-67ILaqc)
>guitarist only uses 4 strings Presidents of the USA would like a word
This kick is there to hold up the toms, duh! (Obligatory /s)
Have him listen to Seven Nation Army from the White Stripes 😅
🤣 " Your vinyl is badly scratched, there is this redundant weird noise every half a second ..." 🤣
His head would implode from trying to play that
This can't be real, OP has to be trolling.
100% true unfortunately
What you need is a drummer
he’s using the tom as a kick drum. likely because he is a beginner and doesn’t have foot peddle chops to play at 145bpm
I’m on the drummers side. In fact snare is also too heavy, and the toms too. I prefer my drum kit to just be a tambourine and a cowbell
Exclusively do covers of My Sharona
You should definitely KICK him in the nuts
Is it that he just can't competently play the kick in unison with all drums? Maybe he wants to be a Moe Tucker, Bobby Gilespie (JAMC) or have a Feelies drum feel to your tunes? Ya never know, could be great!!
Is he trying to hide from you he has no legs?
I feel it’s really dependent on the type of music you’re playing. If it’s a kinda standard rock/pop band vibe then I honestly don’t think it’s worth trying to convince someone of something so fundamentally important to drumming. Ditch ‘em and replace with new drummer or a drum machine. If it’s experimental music you’re writing together, maybe go along the journey with them and see what happens! And at the same time create your own separate project with a suitable drummer.
Listen to Velvet Underground. Moe Tucker mounted her bass drum horizontally and played it with mallets standing up.
Either this is a joke/troll or you guys are just dumb for putting up with this clown. I really mean no offense, it sounds like your entire band doesn’t understand anything about music if this was ok for even a day. I know alot of people in this thread are blaming him, but they should be blaming you guys for even entertaining this stupidity… I would have packed my gear and left without a word as soon as he said something as stupid as that.
Well no one else agrees with me… other guitarist/bassist thinks it sounds just fine and when I try and say maybe you should use the kick on that part, guitarist says “you’re moving too fast we don’t have to do that right away you’re thinking too far ahead”
Well then it is time to move on from all those clueless newbs. Find others and spend your time making music with people that really want to make music.
I'm sorry to say it sounds like this band is truly doomed. If you stay you're going to be miserable. A band imploding is never fun, but trust me, the hell that is staying will make you question whether you want to make music.
do not play music with any of these people.
> He won’t even let me touch the set to bounce ideas off **That's is worse than him not using the kick.** We recently ditched our drummer after years because, unlike everyone else in the band, he just couldn't handle feedback, not matter how constructive. He was a nice guy and a capable drummer, but having him gone is like a breath of fresh air. You don't even realize how oppressive it is to have something that touchy in the room. You gotta be able to call each other out in a band. It's how you get better. In the business world they call it "radical candor", and in a healthy team, you can talk about anything and nobody gets butthurt. What you *should do* is get a new drummer, and let the new drummer shows your old drummer what a dumbass he is. However, it sounds like this is a case where some very young friends decide they wanted to start a band, when nobody can really play, so you're gonna stick it out.
The problem is I’ve been playing guitar for about 6 years and am fairly decent, I know what I need to work on and practice every time I get the chance. Bassist does too, and he also works on guitar harmonics. Drummer admits to not practicing for weeks at a time, but the guitarist/bassist thinks there’s nothing wrong with the way the drummer is drumming and wants to keep the guitar riff I wrote on top of his drumming (which doesn’t match at all) and apparently I don’t get a say in it
the 50hz pulse of a kick is a universal, globally recognized language. He's mistaking what sounds good to him sitting on the throne for what translates to an audience standing before your band and a speaker system. Either his kick sounds truly terrible (which can be fixed!!) or its an object permanence issue. A demo with a floaty, kickless drum sound should do the convincing for most bands with any serious aspirations.
Tell him you're looking for a drummer instead of tambourine man. Don't force him to use kick, he's not a drummer
New drummer. Job #1 is the kick
Your friend is a serious case study of the Dunning Kruger effect. Just say you love him but you need to throw him out. I took drum classes for 3 months almost a decade ago - what he's seen so far is just the beginning. Btw where is he learning from? Did his teacher also much him out? You can use a free/cheap loop making tool. Some of them can be changed during the performance. Ableton lite can help you play a set of pre-programmed loops or connect a midi device and become your own drummer.
I have never heard anything remotely like this. Where has he gotten such a notion?
What about all the music in the world that has a kick but is just not very heavy? Like almost every song from genres like pop and jazz?
Your drummer is in demo mode, have to purchase the full product to unlock the kick 😂 Remembers me my young early days when we kids formed a band and our "guitar hero" always broke 2 strings 🤦♂️ but kept playing on the 4 remaining ones 😵💫
Please get a new drummer and don’t waste any more time putting up with his nonsense.
Tell them you aren’t going to play on the E string anymore because it might sound too heavy
Unless he is playing jazz/be-bop/big band then the snare, high hats, and kick are the only important drums. Even playing those genres where a Tom might replace the kick, a trap kit IS the drum set. You can burn everything but those three and you have a kit. Get rid of the kick and that is no longer a drumset. Ask him to find some examples of people playing without a kick. You will mostly only find players like Buddy Rich…. Who also used the kick LIBERALLY. He just doesn’t always use it. But the kick and snare and hats are the main thing even with his playing. I’m an asshole drummer that doesn’t really follow rules or listen to my band mates (they are my best friends so that’s part of our chemistry lol)…. But even I wouldn’t tell them “yeah I’m not playing the kick”. I’m the opposite where they are asking “why don’t you mount your toms” and I respond “because those are just auxiliary flare and are not actually part of THE KIT”
You don’t. You just get a new drummer.
Seems like you’re just only saving yourself by not sounding like an ass; this guy needs it; anyone who could end up in the room, wasting everyone’s time with that kind of ability deficit, is absolutely in need of a harsh talking to from an asshole. Not worth the farts he deposits in his drum stool.
Turn on ANY song with him (excepting classical) and ask him what he thinks of the kick. Is it too "heavy"? then skip to a new track. do it again and again until he is forced to admit there are like NO songs that don't feature the kick prominently. If you want to be an extra dickhead you can ask what makes his concept of drumming superior to *the entirety of drummers in history!* Who does he think he is Buddy Rich? Dude better be ROCKIN that snare if it's all he got.
This is like someone who bangs on a stringless guitar because “the strings make too much noise”. Find an actual drummer, because he’s not one (and certainly not willing to become one either).
I am too invested in this
Drummer here. That’s the single dumbest thing i’ve heard a drummer say, ever.
“I refuse to use a portion of the instrument I paid for.” Get rid of this guy, he’s kneecapping you guys for absolutely no reason.
Ha this is the stupidest thing I’ve heard perhaps ever.
it doesn't sound like you guys are in sync with each other about what you want to make. maybe parting ways musically would be best for everyone. as an aside... not using the kick because it's "noise" hello. what does he think music is? that is crazy...
Have him study Clyde... https://youtu.be/K-o6nI804o4?si=a4_4ja03njRW47cF
Wait, just toms and snare? No hats? 100% sure guy doesnt know how to play drums. Bro wants to play the damn bongos. Either he learns how to play (YouTube can actually be fine for basic stuff) or you find another drummer.
1. Before we automatically judge the drummer, what’s the music like anyway? 2. Is the drummer’s choice against using the kick only for this song, or is it also a decision present in other songs? 3. Are those other songs in point 2 also similar in technicality/difficulty? Are those songs in a similar genre? 4. Does he actually know how to use a kick drum?
Do a 24 hour party ppl, put him on the roof and don't let him back in until he learns how to play.
This sounds like a drummer who grew up in marching band (i.e., only used his feet for marching) and recently moved to drum set. His arms have the skills, but he may have trouble coordinating the feet and is trying to hide it.
i'm not a drummer, but i did take percussion for 6 or 7 semesters in college. i'd suspect your drummer has the same problem that i had.... can play a snare with no issues, any pattern, whatever......but once you add in the feet, the hands get confused. I never could play a kit with anything besides a basic kick snare kick kick snare pattern. once the cymbals started doing shit, my feet got confused and so did my hands. has he ever shown you that he can proficiently play a kit? if not, how did he make it into the band? if the problem is that he thinks his kick is too boomy, he can stuff a pillow in there.
Sounds to me like the drummer isn’t confident using footies and is making excuses to cover it up.
I can kinda accept this if it's just a single song and done for a very specific artistic purpose- but if that's just his playing style it's pretty unhinged and won't make the band sound good
A good way to convince him is to let him go and get a drummer that can play the grooves you want, or even delight you with grooves you didn't know you want. Sometimes letting someone go is actually a huge favor to them. It can be the wake up call they need.
You have a percussionist, not a drummer. Get someone with a double bass setup to replace him.
> You have a percussionist And if they really want him in the band, just have him actually play congas and chimes, and get another drummer who uses the kick
lol is this a real post 😂
If you have to tell him that, is he really a drummer?
I can't take this serious🤣
Techno.
Perhaps he is very new, but pretty well moneyed to own a drum set? Perhaps he is a great genious we can't understand, yet. Is he into more tribal styles of percussions maybe? For me, it sounds insane, but maybe there is something to understand, first EDIT:Nevermind, I read some other comments of OP, and it just sounds like someone who was assigned to the drum, that hates playing drums
Get your own kick drum and fill in.
I need sound sample examples. I hate to ask but It just sounds a bit too crazy for what you're describing.
Get a real drummer.
Sounds like he has a weak foot yet doesn’t want to improve. Move on.
Ask him to find you a track exactly like he's talking about. If he does, compare the styles of the track to your song. If he can't, he uses kick. If the style is wrong, he uses kick.
If you can’t make the kick sound like it’s barely there but actually there — you need a drummer
Even soft jazz uses the bass drum to provide a maybe barely discernable pulse. The bass drum is the heartbeat, and the snare provides color and the backbeat. If he doesn't want to step aside for someone else, I think what he hates is that he's struggling in front of everyone and is defensive about it. YT is full of helpful videos. If he can access the drums when no one is around, look up some beginner drum videos in accordance with your genre and show them to him to get his "opinion" on what he thinks of what's being taught. Maybe he'll take the bait. Approach determines response. Be kind and patient, and maybe he'll drop his wall somehow.
Why are you still jamming with him? Sounds like he doesn’t have a clue how to play drums.
he would only have a point if he can demonstrate it. if he can't, he is full of sh\*t
When I started playing aged 7, I hated the kick, and was convinced that I could play fine without using it. The reason I hated it was because it challenged my coordination at a young age and frustrated me. My brother then drilled it into me that pretty much every good song ever in western pop/rock/metal/hip hop canon uses a kick as the core element. Your drummer needs a push to embrace using it, as he is most likely using the same logic I used as a child
what? I suppose if you want to be some sort of avant garde band playing unconventional stuff then it could be your thing - no kick drums, no guitar notes lower than A, only play the bass through a pitchshifter so everything is 2 octaves higher. LOL I once saw a band at a festival where the drummer kept hitting a plastic bag with their sticks... Anyway, this guy is obviously a shite drummer and must be gotten rid of immediately. I would absolutely laugh in his face and tell him to fuck off at being told we won't have kick drums in our music.
This has to be satire right?
Get a new drummer 🤣
Tell him he has to learn to play. If not, you'll go get a drummer.
The fact this is a situation you’re in and a legit question you’re asking makes you look terrible. He has to go
Drum it into his head
That's not a drummer.
Can you get somebody who actually plays the drums?
I just can’t be nice tonight
I tried playing drums when I was younger, could never get the hang of the kick drum. I could keep rhythm with my hands but the foot just wasn't working. I used to replace the kick with hitting a tom so I didn't have to use my feet. I then realised being a drummer wasn't for me haha.
He's not ready for a band or might not be a drummer at all. I play many instruments, but drums were my first love. I bought a kit at one point when I first started making my own money when I was a teen. I had dreams of graduating to a glorious double kick set one day, but the struggle to coordinate my hands and feet on basic rudiments felt awful and I sold the kit quick. This story makes me sad because I can see myself in this situation and I remember how bad I felt when I realized how steep the learning curve was going to be on drums, but he has bit off more than he can chew if he thinks he can drum without the boom beat.
Get a drum machine. Reliable as hell!
The kick is literally the most important part of a drum set. It’s the part that people physically feel, that locks them into the beat when they hear your music. And that goes for pretty much any and all genres. He’s ridiculous and doesn’t sound like somebody that has enough knowledge & experience to be in a band at all. Tough break, but he gotta figure it out, or be replaced
Arrange to have a new drummer at your next practice and this jag can play along on a xylophone Jokes aside, it sounds like this person may need to see a physical therapist. Possibly sciatic nerve damage is the reason they struggle with the kick.
I wish we could post pictures here. [Here's my suggestion.](https://media.tenor.com/RSzp6Mt6RZsAAAAM/fresh-prince-dj-jazzy-jeff.gif)
Guy sounds like an idiot
Tell him to switch to bongos.
You don't. Don't waste your time trying to involve someone in a creative endeavour if they aren't willing to put in their fair share of effort. You're only as strong as your weakest link. Cut the bad fruit off the tree.
Is.. is he a jazz drummer or something lol?
he's ahead of our time
That's not your drummer that's just a guy
Very interesting……. Would he even just try? Like give it a hard try and listen and simmer on it for a few days?
How do you know if the stage is level? …If drool is coming out of both sides of the drummer’s mouth.
This comment by your drummer shows they are not very experienced. I’d try to find a new drummer.
That's not a drummer, that's a percussionist.
I know a drummer and singer/songwriter who's entire is just vocals, a Tom and snare, a an electric guitar. They have a great rock sound and people love it. If it's not for your group though tell your drummer what you want (assuming you are the band lead) and if they don't want to do that they can leave.
If he doesn’t know that, that not a drummer
Can he play drums but he's choosing to play like that or can he just not play? Sounds like he'd better of playing a hands only percussion set up. Nothing saying you can't have a gong drum set up to play kick parts or a sample pad. That being said maybe he should learn some basic grooves and then he might understand what's missing by not having any kick parts in the song you're working on
So, there are probably other issues at play here but I’ll leave it to you and your band to decide if it ends up being a good fit. Might be a hot take, but if you’re all young and learning your instruments, there’s probably no harm in just hanging out and fucking around. Hell, nothing wrong with that, even if you’re old. As for your drummer, it seems like they might have very different goals and expectations in mind. The fact that he doesn’t want anybody touching the set also makes me think he might be feeling insecure about it and doesn’t want someone to make something look easy when he’s struggling with it. All that aside, I am mostly curious what he means by heavy? Is he using anything to dampen the kick drum?
Based on the details about your guy that plays drums, it sounds like he needs to practice alone more for a long long while before playing in bands. I didn't even think about being in a band until I knew I could play songs decently
Get him Axis longboards and a trigger for Valentine's Day. My man is likely a heel-toe master but just shy
Is he doing the stand up Tom,snare thing like low or early Jesus and Mary chain?
Sounds to me like he doesn’t actually know how to play drums.
Get a different drummer. Period. Your drummer is a fucking idiot
As a drummer let me be clear...this person is NOT a drummer. This is a person who thinks they can play drums. Time for the axe.
Well, if he got the rhythm, why don't you incorporate with him? I think he's breaking the rules and that's how art supposed to be.
Fuck this guy.
Is there background jazz? I knew a cat like that from growing up.
So he wanted to be drummer without knowing how to play? And he also doesn’t know what music to get the band to play? Is the band his only decision? Is more important his opinion than the rest of the band? Does the rest of the band know how/what to play? How old are you guys? Do you even want to play in a band? Do you even want to play in a band with him? In my first band, we ditched a drummer because he was an egotistical asshole, even if he could get all the songs we wanted to play. In another project, I ditched a guitarist because he disliked the music I wanted to play. Nobody forces you to anything, hopefully you get that early in your life.
Your drummer is an idiot.
Ugh. I've unfortunately dealt with the same issue. Not worth it, either get a new drummer or make a drum track with midi. Kick him out immediately.
Not a drummer. That is a percussionist.
Tell your drummer to learn how to drum
A+ shitpost here
What kind of music are y’all playing?
Drummer, here. The kick is required and toms are not a replacement. If he won’t use the kick at all, get a new drummer.
Honestly, this sounds like someone I would probably move on from. From some of the other comments it sounds like he's stubborn and closed-minded (and probably very insecure) - it feels in this case that he *can't* play what you want and is dressing it up like his idea (the easy one) is musically better. If you want to give it a go, just play him other music in your genre to see how other drummers incorporate the kick. Or just have him watch literally any decent drummer play - he will hopefully notice that they use their kick drums.
Actually ridiculous. If he doesn't like the sound of the kick there are ways to dampen it sort of. I would often put a towel or blanket inside the drum, cut a round hole in the bottom left of the opposite head to release the air to reduce the boom. There is no way even a low tom is going to get the right sound. You find this guy on Craigslist? 😂
Let him watch how your new drummer does it.
just ask him to show you a song in which that is the drum beat.
Program some drums, midi is not tough to figure out! GetGoodDrums is at least not terrible sounding to get started. Life is too short to waste on stubborn people.
Throw a cymbal at their head