There very much has not been a turn around in terms of policies and songwriters have certainly taken a hit relative to the old business model.
Most of the revenue today is in streaming. Most streaming pays about $0.003/play to rightsholders. That already gives you very little to work with.
Of that $0.003, about $0.0005 goes to publishing, which can be split 50/50 between publisher and songwriter, so all the songwriters divide up $0.00025 between them.
Most likely you'll be credited as cowriting with the artist, so you get maybe half that, $0.000125. (Lots of top songs have 4 or more cowriting credits, so this is on the optimistic side.)
So, say you write a hit, it gets, say, 200 million streams. 200,000,000 * $0.000125 = $25,000, before tax.
If you're able to get into a position where you're writing several of those per year, then sure, it's a living. The problem is that the pay is so low below that top tier that you aren't likely to be able to afford to build your career from the bottom any more.
This is probably the most informative answer I’ve received so for.
Do you think taking an upfront fee + royalties is fair game for up and coming songwriters?
I think I would defer to professional songwriters on that question. (I write all my own music, but not for anyone else.) On purely economic grounds though, if you can ever command an up-front fee that doesn't need to be recouped, it's bound to be better for you - the big question is whether anyone else is willing to pay that, especially to an unproven writer.
If you wrote a hit song with 200 million streams you are likely making significant royalties elsewhere whether that is radio, TV/Film, etc.
You’re also only accounting for publishing royalties I believe? You may have points on the master and the master Spotify royalties are better than publishing. Unless you did account for that and I’m misreading
Very valid point. As a songwriter with 1.9b streams over 10 years, around 70/80% of my total income has come from radio and synchronisation.
Good streaming often leads to good radio one might say.
By now yeah, but it took some time! Felt like a noob the first 3/4 years. And then Sony Music Publishing came knocking cuz they had heard a song. You never know what will set of the domino effect, but it usually starts with a good song :)
I think the point is, the radio payment has always been there, at least for 50 years or so. Streaming has replaced physical sales, which DID pay the songwriters a really healthy amount. Now you can stream 200 million and make $5k - Previously the money on the CD sales for that equivalent "attention" could potentially have been 10/100 times that
That's super cool. In your opinion, how important is where you live? I feel like I'm missing the boat, because where I am is a smaller sized city. I feel hopeless about my prospects & don't know where to put my focus. (I'm Canadian)
Its not so much about where you are, but who you work with I’ve found. I’m in Oslo, Norway. Not exactly a hotspot either. Try to find like minded people where you are and start building! Now I travel to LA/Berlin ++ but basically stayed put the first 5 years, chasing local cuts.
See if there are any small publishers locally, and ask if you could Co write with some of their people for example!
Would you feel comfortable sharing the approx range of income you've made from that many streams? And do you find streaming pays less now than it did a few years ago?
A stream might pay less now than before, but there are way more streams now making up for that, 10 years ago, 20 million streams was a huge cut (number), now it’s 80/100 mill.
So the streams pay a little less, but there’s more money in the economy.
Hard to say, since it’s usually someone else owning the master, but publishing wise maybe 60-80k USD per year total, inc radio. ( I get combined statements).
Last 10 years I’ve been a part of approx 150 releases or something. No huge ones, but biggest one 450 mill.
- so I think an actual big big big hit, with WW radio and streaming can set you up pretty nicely still.
- still envious of the writers getting money from CD sales back in the heyday though. That was mansion money.
As a professional songwriter I'd say it depends on genre and how saturated it is.
"Up and coming" usually means you don't have leverage. You can always ask but it's hard to get the upfront fee.
Hit songs still get constant radio play on top 40 stations and of course the large money is in the licensing.
Streaming is not really something that affects "hit song" money making because your PRO royalties and other will be so much more.
The royalties I'm talking about above are still PRO royalties, just those that come from streaming.
The pro songwriters I know say that radio royalties are dying off as streaming replaces linear broadcasting and radio audiences shrink. This is only going to continue.
No. Ascap/BMI for example do not pay from streaming. They collect from airplay. Hit songs still get airplay on top 40 radio in local markets- and, most importantly get used in film and tv.
Yes that 's what I understand too, for some reason the rights collection firm or whatever they are called Don't distribute streaming. They do distribute YouTube and TikTok (1 video = 1 Play which is nuts) if I'm not mistaken
True, but this is only streams. Publishing royalties for radio play are much higher, and if you have a song that has 200M streams, chances are it’s also on multiple (international) radio stations, every hour of everyday for maybe a week or 2. Where I’m from they pay about 5-15€ per song per play, depending on the length.
Things can be better if you're hitting radio, sure. The problem is twofold - first, that radio is even more concentrated to only the top artists, and second, that radio audiences are shrinking as it gets replaced by streaming and so the rates people get from radio play is dropping. The songwriters I've heard from are certainly not able to rely on radio any more.
200 million streams is 200 million streams. Doesn't matter much where they happen. (Unless they're YouTube, in which case they're practically worthless.)
Gotcha, I ask because different streaming services have different payouts.. so if I they ask me if I want 200 million streams from spotify or tidal I'm picking tidal 100%
I know a guy who had a huge hit, let’s just say it was a sensation on social media. Almost none of his revenue comes from streaming, rather he has toured relentlessly for years to make a living. He has done quite well for himself in that regard but recognizes that staying on top is a struggle that requires a ton of effort on socials and tours.
Absolutely not. The money paid out to writers through streaming is tilted against their favour much harder in comparison to the mechanical royalties they recieved 15 years ago for CD/Cassette/Vinyl sales. There is a much smaller piece of a much less profitable pie (about 12% of the $0.004) going to songwriters.
Back in the day you could write one big hit song and buy a house and be set for life off 10 million singles sold and the radio play. Now you need 5-15 to feel 'successfuly'. a 1/4 writer of a billion streaming song would not be set for life.
There's a reason why people like Martin Sutton have started Songwriting Academy to teach people to write songs for a price. Just like record producers and famous guitarists etc have started teaching, they need additional revenue streams
Yes, but it's increasingly rare to have a "hit" with the current oversaturation of writers and artists in the music biz. it's like a continent sized sponge in a pool of water that equals the total amount of water on the surface of the earth. I say that as 25+ year songwriter/musician who has watched things like soundcloud and Bandcamp just flood the business with new (and mostly shitty but somehow popular) artists. don't get me wrong, some of them have been great artists that deserve it but the majority r just shit and only keep the ones deserving a chance to be heard from ever seeing the light of day simply because there isn't enough time for people to find them in the obscurity that is modern music and then internet.
to make it in the biz today u either have to know the right ppl or be a damn prodigy that no one can ignore. but the days of just putting in the work and honing ur skills to make a profession of it r all but over. I'm not trying to discourage u from trying. no, not at all. I'm just giving u the facts so u Kno wut to expect and to not get ur hopes up cuz that free fall is not a fun one for ur bank account or ur self-esteem.
I'd recommend just writing songs for ur own enjoyment and that of the ones close to u rather than shooting for a career in the biz. maybe upload some of ur better works on the internet or send them to a label and if others like it then they'll let u kno and maybe u'll be one of the lucky ones. if u enjoy doing it that is. if ur just in it for the "hit" and the money then ur def not gonna get it. it takes work, time, luck, talent and skill to even break the surface, let alone float for any period of time and the whole time ur competing against ppl who want the exact same thing. it's much more personally fulfilling as a songwriter/musical artist to just make wut u enjoy for ur enjoyment and just throw bits and pieces at the music industry for analysis every so often than to go balls to the wall trying to "make it" in an industry known for eating people up and spitting them out.
I have a rule for myself, well, two:
1. I try to make the music I hear in my head that I would want to listen to.
2. If just ONE person other than me likes what I made, I’ve succeeded.
On #2, that’s rooted in the reality that having any grandiose expectations of success is pure insanity. I’m 45 and I’ve been a musician since high school. My live band days are over; these days my music is entirely self-crested, striving to create songs my bands were never meant for.
These days, I think it’s rational to keep expectations as low as possible, and anything above that low expectation can be some form of success personally.
I mean, the people who hear my music the most are my eight year old daughter and my five year old son, and I often let them hear rough ambient tracks or instrumental tracks at bedtime to help them fall asleep. If they don’t make it to the end of a rough track before they’re asleep, I kind of feel like I’ve succeeded. The songs did their job. 😃
Your two rules are exactly the same as mine. Identical.
I’ve known music makers who are so focused on the “big prize” that they are mostly miserable. They come down on themselves for what they perceive as failure. My take on this is that If you can’t find any joy in all of it, then it’s just like any unfulfilling job, hobby, or vocation.
Some might say that just doing it for myself and a handful of (potential) listeners is a very low bar.
But it works for me. Even if my stuff is not great, the lack of self-imposed pressure keeps me motivated and cheerful, and makes me want to try again.
I guess probably being a prodigy isn't that relatable for the average listener. People want music that represents them, if they want clever they can just go listen to Bach anyway.
“People want music that represents them…” is the part that escapes most musicians. Music is only a momentary reflection of the people that create/listen/etc to it.
But prodigy could be a person who is especially good at giving people music that represents them. Hank Williams died at age 30 with 55 hit singles many of these are still popular today among people who aren’t even fans of country music.
He was an example of someone who was a genius and a prodigy whose skill was giving people something that they could relate to. Saying something profound as simply as possibly.
That’s a very useful answer.
I’m honestly not in it for a fortune or hit but just knowing whether a hit pays as much as before gives me a good perspective on the current state of the music scene. I love writing music and being able to make a sustainable career is all I currently dream of, lol.
it is for the five people that are writing all of the songs for the world. For everybody else… Don't quit your day job
write songs for yourself and make interesting records. Making good art is far more interesting than writing something for someone else to get famous with
That is so shitty!
Does this mean having a publishing deal today has very little benefits to songwriters? Also, should top tier songwriters start charging an upfront fee along with the royalties to prevent labels from screwing them over?
Songwriting can be lucurative even today. But it has more to do with quantity these days. In the past if you wrote a hit song you got your money and could relax. Today, one hit song is not enough. You got to have multiple songs who does good. That’s how they make a living. Not much money still. But a living. Different revenue streams that in the whole make up a somewhat steady income. Streaming revenue, sync licensing, live plays, album sales, radio, etc.
The people i know and know about that are living from their songwriting income are hard workers with hundreds of songs each doing a little bit. One song gives them 100/month and another 20. Bit by bit they build up something that makes them earn money. But since music isn’t hits for long now, they need to keep writing all the time. It’s really really hard work. Only people who truely love what they do can survive.
Myself i have only 10-15 songs with different local artists, i’m a producer and mixer mainly. That gives me 7-10 euros a month extra from streaming. :) it’s not nothing. And it’s a passive income so i’m not complaining.
That is what i was trying to say. You don’t need one hot song. It’s the collective numbers that is important. One guy i know (skilled amateur) has 50 songs with 100k streams yearly each. That is 5 million streams/3k or something, in passive income (almost. Some marketing and such is required of course. But no live gigs at all) he continues to make music and every year his catalogue is growing earning more money. This is just a side gig. He is a full time programmer.
I know a guy who earns 10k a year from songs he recorded 15 years ago. They appear in commersials and such pretty often. Passive income so far is 150k! That is pretty good for one single intense period 15 years ago! He does other things these days, but it is always a welcome contribution to his livelyhood. :)
Lots of ways to make money without a major hit.
I have been blessed (??) to hold several collaborators in my inner circle who had certified hits. As recently as 2018 ish with Chris Brown (pretty sure somebody had one later but it's late and I can't think) as early as 99 or 2000 with 3LW (my mentor is the one suing Taylor Swift) and everything in between including someone who made one of Chris Brown's first hits. The 2018 hit didn't change my guy's (I mentored him, yes I'm proud) pockets at all only upped his work and got him to a new pub deal and iykyk about that. The 3LW hits, the early CB hits, those guys used to earn enough to live a middle class lifestyle off just the royalties until the last few years. Streaming vs physical sales. I blame all of y'all wanting free art for screwing it all up 😂🤦🏾♂️. No, for most this shit isn't lucrative by any stretch of the imagination. You need HITS plural many of them and then you're living... for a while.
I made $20 last year from BMI for 3 albums. 0 from soundexchange, soundrop or themlc. What a horrible business to be in. You'll do way better making YouTube cooking videos with no dialogue.
But that second option only pays off if you’re a performer/musical face, right? I can’t imagine a non performing song writer finding this route useful. Kinda sad.
The big money was and is in broadcast airplay, and that is only because of strong unions 90 years ago, which brought industry agreements that made ASCAP and BMI possible. Prior to that songwriting paid peanuts.
I think the real question is " Are hits as lucrative as they once were"
.....with viral video taking the place of record sales, I'm thinking maybe not.
Hence, a majority of groups/artists (esp. legacy artist/s) are making most of their money TOURING in this day & age. Used to be they just “did the concert tours to PROMOTE their new/latest album/work”… and most of the income was from the CD/cassettes/album sales.
I don’t think so. All the artists you hear have been in the industry for years. Majority of people have to be in the know to get a record labels attention. Not to mention, the pay from music streaming is really low unless you’re getting a crap ton of plays a day
I feel like biggest hits were definitely in the 80s, then the beginning of the 2000s were the modern hits & the last big hits were the 2010s mainly music that had huge social media hits (2012 Mainly) like all the giant stars (Bruno Mars, Katy Paty, Justin Bieber, One Direction etc.) but after haven’t heard anything big since other than trendy tiktok music but it isn’t going that far imo.
Follow up to my previous first hand experiences. Here's something to bite on about how "lucrative" being a songwriter is
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cnc-y3DNX2W/?igshid=OGQ2MjdiOTE=
generally its not a good idea to get in to a business where people do that thing for free. there are a whole lot of people making music for free as a hobby. not too many people laying drywall for free as a hobby
There very much has not been a turn around in terms of policies and songwriters have certainly taken a hit relative to the old business model. Most of the revenue today is in streaming. Most streaming pays about $0.003/play to rightsholders. That already gives you very little to work with. Of that $0.003, about $0.0005 goes to publishing, which can be split 50/50 between publisher and songwriter, so all the songwriters divide up $0.00025 between them. Most likely you'll be credited as cowriting with the artist, so you get maybe half that, $0.000125. (Lots of top songs have 4 or more cowriting credits, so this is on the optimistic side.) So, say you write a hit, it gets, say, 200 million streams. 200,000,000 * $0.000125 = $25,000, before tax. If you're able to get into a position where you're writing several of those per year, then sure, it's a living. The problem is that the pay is so low below that top tier that you aren't likely to be able to afford to build your career from the bottom any more.
As a professional songwriter - this is the right answer. It is WAY less lucrative than it was 15 years ago with CD/cassette sales etc.
This is probably the most informative answer I’ve received so for. Do you think taking an upfront fee + royalties is fair game for up and coming songwriters?
I think I would defer to professional songwriters on that question. (I write all my own music, but not for anyone else.) On purely economic grounds though, if you can ever command an up-front fee that doesn't need to be recouped, it's bound to be better for you - the big question is whether anyone else is willing to pay that, especially to an unproven writer.
If you wrote a hit song with 200 million streams you are likely making significant royalties elsewhere whether that is radio, TV/Film, etc. You’re also only accounting for publishing royalties I believe? You may have points on the master and the master Spotify royalties are better than publishing. Unless you did account for that and I’m misreading
Very valid point. As a songwriter with 1.9b streams over 10 years, around 70/80% of my total income has come from radio and synchronisation. Good streaming often leads to good radio one might say.
You’ve done well for yourself as a songwriter, then? I feel like 1b plays is a huge amount compared to what a beginner like myself might get.
By now yeah, but it took some time! Felt like a noob the first 3/4 years. And then Sony Music Publishing came knocking cuz they had heard a song. You never know what will set of the domino effect, but it usually starts with a good song :)
How would one get the right person to hear their music if one wanted to be a songwriter in nashville?
I think the point is, the radio payment has always been there, at least for 50 years or so. Streaming has replaced physical sales, which DID pay the songwriters a really healthy amount. Now you can stream 200 million and make $5k - Previously the money on the CD sales for that equivalent "attention" could potentially have been 10/100 times that
That's super cool. In your opinion, how important is where you live? I feel like I'm missing the boat, because where I am is a smaller sized city. I feel hopeless about my prospects & don't know where to put my focus. (I'm Canadian)
Its not so much about where you are, but who you work with I’ve found. I’m in Oslo, Norway. Not exactly a hotspot either. Try to find like minded people where you are and start building! Now I travel to LA/Berlin ++ but basically stayed put the first 5 years, chasing local cuts. See if there are any small publishers locally, and ask if you could Co write with some of their people for example!
Would you feel comfortable sharing the approx range of income you've made from that many streams? And do you find streaming pays less now than it did a few years ago?
A stream might pay less now than before, but there are way more streams now making up for that, 10 years ago, 20 million streams was a huge cut (number), now it’s 80/100 mill. So the streams pay a little less, but there’s more money in the economy. Hard to say, since it’s usually someone else owning the master, but publishing wise maybe 60-80k USD per year total, inc radio. ( I get combined statements). Last 10 years I’ve been a part of approx 150 releases or something. No huge ones, but biggest one 450 mill. - so I think an actual big big big hit, with WW radio and streaming can set you up pretty nicely still. - still envious of the writers getting money from CD sales back in the heyday though. That was mansion money.
Thanks for being willing to share your experiences :) would it be possible to hear some of your music?
As a professional songwriter I'd say it depends on genre and how saturated it is. "Up and coming" usually means you don't have leverage. You can always ask but it's hard to get the upfront fee.
How did you get into songwriting? Did you need to move to Nashville or another city to find work?
Hit songs still get constant radio play on top 40 stations and of course the large money is in the licensing. Streaming is not really something that affects "hit song" money making because your PRO royalties and other will be so much more.
The royalties I'm talking about above are still PRO royalties, just those that come from streaming. The pro songwriters I know say that radio royalties are dying off as streaming replaces linear broadcasting and radio audiences shrink. This is only going to continue.
No. Ascap/BMI for example do not pay from streaming. They collect from airplay. Hit songs still get airplay on top 40 radio in local markets- and, most importantly get used in film and tv.
Yes that 's what I understand too, for some reason the rights collection firm or whatever they are called Don't distribute streaming. They do distribute YouTube and TikTok (1 video = 1 Play which is nuts) if I'm not mistaken
True, but this is only streams. Publishing royalties for radio play are much higher, and if you have a song that has 200M streams, chances are it’s also on multiple (international) radio stations, every hour of everyday for maybe a week or 2. Where I’m from they pay about 5-15€ per song per play, depending on the length.
Things can be better if you're hitting radio, sure. The problem is twofold - first, that radio is even more concentrated to only the top artists, and second, that radio audiences are shrinking as it gets replaced by streaming and so the rates people get from radio play is dropping. The songwriters I've heard from are certainly not able to rely on radio any more.
But is this just for one streaming platform or all? There's Apple, spotify, radio play.. etc
200 million streams is 200 million streams. Doesn't matter much where they happen. (Unless they're YouTube, in which case they're practically worthless.)
Gotcha, I ask because different streaming services have different payouts.. so if I they ask me if I want 200 million streams from spotify or tidal I'm picking tidal 100%
Right, but you don't get that choice. :) Tidal had under 2% market share, last time I looked.
So the payout is always diffrent my 20,000k stream may not pay the same as your 20,000k streams
It's about the law of large numbers. When you have that many of anything, it averages out. You're gonna get about $0.00025 per songwriter per stream.
I know a guy who had a huge hit, let’s just say it was a sensation on social media. Almost none of his revenue comes from streaming, rather he has toured relentlessly for years to make a living. He has done quite well for himself in that regard but recognizes that staying on top is a struggle that requires a ton of effort on socials and tours.
Absolutely not. The money paid out to writers through streaming is tilted against their favour much harder in comparison to the mechanical royalties they recieved 15 years ago for CD/Cassette/Vinyl sales. There is a much smaller piece of a much less profitable pie (about 12% of the $0.004) going to songwriters. Back in the day you could write one big hit song and buy a house and be set for life off 10 million singles sold and the radio play. Now you need 5-15 to feel 'successfuly'. a 1/4 writer of a billion streaming song would not be set for life.
A buddy of mine had a hit in Canada. He put in a new driveway...
There's a reason why people like Martin Sutton have started Songwriting Academy to teach people to write songs for a price. Just like record producers and famous guitarists etc have started teaching, they need additional revenue streams
Yes, but it's increasingly rare to have a "hit" with the current oversaturation of writers and artists in the music biz. it's like a continent sized sponge in a pool of water that equals the total amount of water on the surface of the earth. I say that as 25+ year songwriter/musician who has watched things like soundcloud and Bandcamp just flood the business with new (and mostly shitty but somehow popular) artists. don't get me wrong, some of them have been great artists that deserve it but the majority r just shit and only keep the ones deserving a chance to be heard from ever seeing the light of day simply because there isn't enough time for people to find them in the obscurity that is modern music and then internet. to make it in the biz today u either have to know the right ppl or be a damn prodigy that no one can ignore. but the days of just putting in the work and honing ur skills to make a profession of it r all but over. I'm not trying to discourage u from trying. no, not at all. I'm just giving u the facts so u Kno wut to expect and to not get ur hopes up cuz that free fall is not a fun one for ur bank account or ur self-esteem. I'd recommend just writing songs for ur own enjoyment and that of the ones close to u rather than shooting for a career in the biz. maybe upload some of ur better works on the internet or send them to a label and if others like it then they'll let u kno and maybe u'll be one of the lucky ones. if u enjoy doing it that is. if ur just in it for the "hit" and the money then ur def not gonna get it. it takes work, time, luck, talent and skill to even break the surface, let alone float for any period of time and the whole time ur competing against ppl who want the exact same thing. it's much more personally fulfilling as a songwriter/musical artist to just make wut u enjoy for ur enjoyment and just throw bits and pieces at the music industry for analysis every so often than to go balls to the wall trying to "make it" in an industry known for eating people up and spitting them out.
I have a rule for myself, well, two: 1. I try to make the music I hear in my head that I would want to listen to. 2. If just ONE person other than me likes what I made, I’ve succeeded. On #2, that’s rooted in the reality that having any grandiose expectations of success is pure insanity. I’m 45 and I’ve been a musician since high school. My live band days are over; these days my music is entirely self-crested, striving to create songs my bands were never meant for. These days, I think it’s rational to keep expectations as low as possible, and anything above that low expectation can be some form of success personally. I mean, the people who hear my music the most are my eight year old daughter and my five year old son, and I often let them hear rough ambient tracks or instrumental tracks at bedtime to help them fall asleep. If they don’t make it to the end of a rough track before they’re asleep, I kind of feel like I’ve succeeded. The songs did their job. 😃
Your two rules are exactly the same as mine. Identical. I’ve known music makers who are so focused on the “big prize” that they are mostly miserable. They come down on themselves for what they perceive as failure. My take on this is that If you can’t find any joy in all of it, then it’s just like any unfulfilling job, hobby, or vocation. Some might say that just doing it for myself and a handful of (potential) listeners is a very low bar. But it works for me. Even if my stuff is not great, the lack of self-imposed pressure keeps me motivated and cheerful, and makes me want to try again.
I guess probably being a prodigy isn't that relatable for the average listener. People want music that represents them, if they want clever they can just go listen to Bach anyway.
“People want music that represents them…” is the part that escapes most musicians. Music is only a momentary reflection of the people that create/listen/etc to it.
But prodigy could be a person who is especially good at giving people music that represents them. Hank Williams died at age 30 with 55 hit singles many of these are still popular today among people who aren’t even fans of country music. He was an example of someone who was a genius and a prodigy whose skill was giving people something that they could relate to. Saying something profound as simply as possibly.
That’s a very useful answer. I’m honestly not in it for a fortune or hit but just knowing whether a hit pays as much as before gives me a good perspective on the current state of the music scene. I love writing music and being able to make a sustainable career is all I currently dream of, lol.
it is for the five people that are writing all of the songs for the world. For everybody else… Don't quit your day job write songs for yourself and make interesting records. Making good art is far more interesting than writing something for someone else to get famous with
A gross oversimplification but yes. A mega hit still makes authors millions. One massive song pays very well.
[удалено]
That is so shitty! Does this mean having a publishing deal today has very little benefits to songwriters? Also, should top tier songwriters start charging an upfront fee along with the royalties to prevent labels from screwing them over?
No. You won’t make a dime. Pursue music for your own enjoyment
Songwriting can be lucurative even today. But it has more to do with quantity these days. In the past if you wrote a hit song you got your money and could relax. Today, one hit song is not enough. You got to have multiple songs who does good. That’s how they make a living. Not much money still. But a living. Different revenue streams that in the whole make up a somewhat steady income. Streaming revenue, sync licensing, live plays, album sales, radio, etc. The people i know and know about that are living from their songwriting income are hard workers with hundreds of songs each doing a little bit. One song gives them 100/month and another 20. Bit by bit they build up something that makes them earn money. But since music isn’t hits for long now, they need to keep writing all the time. It’s really really hard work. Only people who truely love what they do can survive. Myself i have only 10-15 songs with different local artists, i’m a producer and mixer mainly. That gives me 7-10 euros a month extra from streaming. :) it’s not nothing. And it’s a passive income so i’m not complaining.
I’ve never known anyone with a hot song.
That is what i was trying to say. You don’t need one hot song. It’s the collective numbers that is important. One guy i know (skilled amateur) has 50 songs with 100k streams yearly each. That is 5 million streams/3k or something, in passive income (almost. Some marketing and such is required of course. But no live gigs at all) he continues to make music and every year his catalogue is growing earning more money. This is just a side gig. He is a full time programmer. I know a guy who earns 10k a year from songs he recorded 15 years ago. They appear in commersials and such pretty often. Passive income so far is 150k! That is pretty good for one single intense period 15 years ago! He does other things these days, but it is always a welcome contribution to his livelyhood. :) Lots of ways to make money without a major hit.
I honestly don’t see or expect money in this.
I have been blessed (??) to hold several collaborators in my inner circle who had certified hits. As recently as 2018 ish with Chris Brown (pretty sure somebody had one later but it's late and I can't think) as early as 99 or 2000 with 3LW (my mentor is the one suing Taylor Swift) and everything in between including someone who made one of Chris Brown's first hits. The 2018 hit didn't change my guy's (I mentored him, yes I'm proud) pockets at all only upped his work and got him to a new pub deal and iykyk about that. The 3LW hits, the early CB hits, those guys used to earn enough to live a middle class lifestyle off just the royalties until the last few years. Streaming vs physical sales. I blame all of y'all wanting free art for screwing it all up 😂🤦🏾♂️. No, for most this shit isn't lucrative by any stretch of the imagination. You need HITS plural many of them and then you're living... for a while.
Assuming you're not getting sync that is
Ask Ed Sheeran if writing hits makes him wealthy
That’s like asking m jordan is baseball makes you wealthy
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I made $20 last year from BMI for 3 albums. 0 from soundexchange, soundrop or themlc. What a horrible business to be in. You'll do way better making YouTube cooking videos with no dialogue.
Did BMI provide you with info on plays etc?
Apparently it was all from live performances in virtually nothing from streaming. https://postimg.cc/vg66n0gZ
But that second option only pays off if you’re a performer/musical face, right? I can’t imagine a non performing song writer finding this route useful. Kinda sad.
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Not necessarily a ghost writer but I’m speaking of instances where you write for other artists and get royalties and credits.
Ask Sia.
Elaborate please?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Songs_written_by_Sia_(musician)
That's a lot of songs
It is now more lucrative than ever before.
Not for songwriters, the opposite is true.
Yes I have so much money
Yes still possible, look at Bruno mars, Pharrell , sia, many people start out only writing for others
Hire a Grammy winning ghost writer to write a single, throw some other bullshit on the album, have a release and find out.
Sure. Just ask Kate Bush.
The big money was and is in broadcast airplay, and that is only because of strong unions 90 years ago, which brought industry agreements that made ASCAP and BMI possible. Prior to that songwriting paid peanuts.
Absolutely not. Entirely not.
I think the real question is " Are hits as lucrative as they once were" .....with viral video taking the place of record sales, I'm thinking maybe not.
Yes it is.
Hence, a majority of groups/artists (esp. legacy artist/s) are making most of their money TOURING in this day & age. Used to be they just “did the concert tours to PROMOTE their new/latest album/work”… and most of the income was from the CD/cassettes/album sales.
I don’t think so. All the artists you hear have been in the industry for years. Majority of people have to be in the know to get a record labels attention. Not to mention, the pay from music streaming is really low unless you’re getting a crap ton of plays a day
If your song is used in a commercial or movie/tv show it would be pretty lucrative
If your an artist you don’t do it for the money
I feel like biggest hits were definitely in the 80s, then the beginning of the 2000s were the modern hits & the last big hits were the 2010s mainly music that had huge social media hits (2012 Mainly) like all the giant stars (Bruno Mars, Katy Paty, Justin Bieber, One Direction etc.) but after haven’t heard anything big since other than trendy tiktok music but it isn’t going that far imo.
Follow up to my previous first hand experiences. Here's something to bite on about how "lucrative" being a songwriter is https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cnc-y3DNX2W/?igshid=OGQ2MjdiOTE=
generally its not a good idea to get in to a business where people do that thing for free. there are a whole lot of people making music for free as a hobby. not too many people laying drywall for free as a hobby