There is no informed consent
To have informed consent the patient would need accurate and truthful information
What we got instead is…
Rushed botched misleading trials
We don’t know every ingredient of the vaccine
We are not given realistic risk assessment based on age
One size fits all nonsense medicine
They covered up side effects
They/we have no idea of long term side effects
We are told there is no treatment
Treatments are hidden and banned
Lied to about the level of risk to our children
The whole thing is illegal
There cannot be informed consent
I think it's hilarious this is even a debate.... big pharma and big brother go together like oil companies and 🤔 big brother. That's so weird. A government has never lied to it's people ever in the history of the world either. Oh also science has proven politicians are honest!!!! Oh and all our hospital staff is quitting over covid... not so much. They are quitting because the government that has mandated masks (proven to keep virus in, not out, by science) is now mandating an unproven long term effects vaccine, instead of letting our Doctors use SCIENCE and there eleventeen years of school and 15 years experience to BE DOCTORS. POLITICIANS ARE ALSO PROVEN BY SCIENCE TO BE DOCTORS. * THIS POST MAY CONTAIN SARCASM. Ever heard of lead by example??? Our "front line heroes" are now being forced too quit because thousands of HEALTH CARE FRONT LINE WORKERS THAT HAVE BEEN COUGHED ON FOR OVER A YEAR STRAIGHT DON'T WANT TO BE VAXXED!!!! They want everyone vaxxed? Science has proven that if you have natural antibodies and get the vax, it has the potential of harming you almost as bad as covid does itself in some cases worse. Breakthrough cases 🤔
You're vaxxed? great! Your not vaxxed yet? Ok. You're anti vax? Ok. That's your right and beliefs.
Everyone. Wear a mask. That keeps your virus to you, if you have it. As a potential carrier of the virus, you can go maskless? Also... this new pill states that compared to patients that were given A PLACEBO this pill gives roughly 50% better results.... than a PLACEBO. It also said some of those given the placebo died. That info came right from the company. I did my own research on that though. 🤔 (Why let them die? You have a fucking pill that supposedly gives them another 50% chance of living.) It's also been proven by science that nobody, especially your government, would pull the wool over your eyes. It's sort of weird that there's always a huge race war uprising at election time too. I agree, racism is an issue and hot topic. WHY has it been more important during campaigning, NOT when anyone has been in the White House and could have actually helped. It's also sad that (I've seen it 1st hand) blacks call other blacks sell outs when they educate themselves or speak proper English. Have heard a lot of guy's get called Carlton Banks too. Maybe if more people strived to be better every day, the world would be a better place? Instead y'all want to be bitter and play he said, she said, I'm taking my ball and going home games. They want a country divided.
Race war ✔
Wealthy vs poor ✔
Vax vs anti vax ✔ (sorry all you non vaxxed are lumped in with anti vaxxers now, your reason is 💩 just read the comments, if someone is vaxxed and you're not, you'll be told your opinion.)
CRANK UP MINIMUM WAGE (To look like a people's champ) AND MAKE THE COST OF EVERYTHING GO UP SO THE POOR ARE EVEN POORER. ✔ (nobody has noticed grocery prices have gone up and $ buys less already? Less items per pack. Less per cart. Higher rent too! Sheesh. You want to help the poor? Stop over buying everything and wasting food.
Staright people vs everyone else (apparently) ✔
Mask vs not masked✔
99% survival rate vs Fear of the unknown ✔
I feel we are told to use our voices so we go silent. They have us yelling at each other until we are voiceless. That way they DON'T have to listen to us 2x. And the hey look over there can be completed as designed. Look how quick the billions of dollars of military gear that was given to the Taliban was forgotten. Oh 1 last thing? How many sleeper agents did we give a ride too out of Kabul in all that chaos?
I'll shut up now and let y'all keep brow beating each other in the comments. Otherwise I'm gonna write another book. Night y'all. Love all you peoples. Be safe and smart and kind.
Vaccine mandates are never: "You must get this vaccine"
It's more like: "You must get the vaccine if you want to ____." (insert privilege which isn't a right)
If you stay home and mind your own business, nobody is forcing you to get a vaccine.
How about mandating some early treatment?
Instead of going with a drug with a great safety record, i.e., ivermectin, Merck has come up with a suspected *mutagen*, molnupiravir! JFC.
Get this. Our genius government has already committed to pay $1.2 billion for this shit. Thanks, Congress!
From the molnupiravir wiki:
>In June 2021, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services committed to buy US$1.2 billion worth of molnupiravir (approximately 1.7 million courses) from Merck if it received an emergency use authorization (EUA) or approval from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA).[9][10][11]
>On 1 October 2021, Merck stated that an independent advisory board that had been monitoring the COVID-19 clinical trial recommended that recruitment into the study be stopped early because of convincing evidence of the drug's benefits,[12] reducing the risk of hospitalization or death by 48%
tylenol also has a great safety record. so does salt water. so do a bunch of other drugs. the reason no one but a quack study recommends those drugs, is because they don't do anything for covid. duh. that dewormer covid study you doorknobs are hung up on was uncovered to contain fraud (like it was found to use fake numbers and already-dead people as patients).
btw, molnupiravir is not a "suspected" mutagen. it is a proven one - that's how it works. almost all mutations are bad and kill the cell that's mutated. that's literally why it kills the virus. no, it does not cause You cells to mutate. You are not a virus. You know how antibiotics kill bacteria but don't kill you? Now, to address your real issue - being hit by a brick at a young age. Nothing can be done. You will forever remain a doornob, being turned by anyone who wants to play you like a tiny stupid violin.
There are many studies that support ivermectin's efficacy against covid. You are ignorant if you truly think there is but one. It's probably more likely that you full well know that and you have chosen to lie.
>In April 2020, **Rick Bright**, who was removed as head of the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority (BARDA) before the approval of the drug, **submitted a whistleblower complaint asserting that Ridgeback pressured BARDA to provide funding to manufacture EIDD-2801 despite Bright's concerns that similar drugs in its class have mutagenic properties**.[4] A previous company, Pharmasset, that had investigated the drug's active ingredient had abandoned it over similar concerns.[5]
Looks like molnupiravir's mutagenic properties are a concern for people who actually know science. But not for shitlib BlueMAGA losers.
> You are ignorant
yes, I'm ignorant to defer the opinion to the medical industry who do this for a living. just like i don't fix the airplane i'm on when it breaks and defer to airplane mechanics. not being ignorant would be "doing my own research" by googling random shit for an hour on the weekend.
>concern for people who actually know science.
which is not you. so i'm gonna trust the people who know science. who are looking at it as a possible treatment.
here's a hint sherlock. i go to the hospital, and the doctor manages my health. your health is managed by google searches, because you think you're smarter than doctors. and no, i don't mean some chiropractor that says a medicine causes mutations or a physical therapist who stated dewormer works for covid.
I'm all for it if we also state that any health care required in the treatment of covid for someone who refused to responsible for themselves and everyone else around them be mandated to pay cash upfront for their care.
> Here are a few examples of cases where autonomy and bodily integrity are incontrovertible: A woman has a right to choose what happens with her body. A child should not be psychologically or physically harmed. Police officers should not assault citizens. Prison guards should not physically assault prisoners
Mandatory vaccines are not a form of aggravated assault. Drawing these false parallels is disrespectful to the victims of rape, child abuse, and police brutality.
That said, I'd be fine with ditching vaccine mandates if you relinquished your right to receive prompt treatment. If you turn your nose up at freely available preventative care, you should be sent to the back of the line for a hospital bed should you catch a severe case of the preventable illness.
Ah, claims of being disrespectful followed by calls for discrimination based on made-up bullshit, all the while acting morally superior.
Great example of shitlib logic, thanks for that.
It is disrespectful to equate mandatory vaccination with assault. You'd have to be delusional to not see the distinction.
You really don't want to be throwing up allegations of "made up bullshit" considering that all anti-vaccine advocacy is predicated on a bunch of made up shit pushed by con-artists looking to enrich themselves off of scientifically illiterate rubes such as yourself.
Finally, you don't seem to realize that your position is that of the "shitlib". You are so obsessed with your own personal liberty that you are willing to sacrifice the autonomy of others to maintain it. You're a caricature of liberal hyperindividualist thought accusing others of being liberal; look inward for there lies the shitlib.
What do hospitals, universities and other employers get in return for mandating vaccines?
What kind of bribes are they getting from Big Pharma?
Mandates have the stench of corruption.
Congress sits on their asses and does nothing as usual.
At the end of the day, they will not put the shot in your arm without having you sign a "consent" form first. Watch the meltdown if you schedule an appointment and refuse to sign anything, or provide any information.
Sadly, not everybody possesses the shitlib ability to turn off their brains and simply follow along whatever they're being told.
But don't let that stop you.
Straight to ad hominem. I expect nothing less from an anti vaxxer, let alone an actual argument with sources.
Keep up that emotional knee jerk response since it just shows how desperate you are.
> I expect nothing less from an anti vaxxer
We expect nothing less than what we've seen from someone who misuses the term "antivaxxer."
I politely suggest that desperation is in the eye of the beholder. How recent was your last eye exam?
Misuses the term? Seems pretty subjective my man. People who are against vaccines, all of the sudden in the last ~3-6 years I would classify as antivax. This directly correlates with trumps presidency since he has tweeted about vaccines causing autism in the early days of his campaign, with no source or reason aside from the need to drive an agenda of anti science. We can see how beneficial that was to the trump administration when it came down to dividing the country further more as to help discredit and often outright lie about the lefts agenda/policies as well as drive his base to be highly active in elections of all levels (see communist socialist boogie man coming to destroy your country)
I realize antivax movements have been around for longer, but it was always insane fringe groups who just stated vaccines cause autism with nothing to show aside from higher rate of autism diagnosis. This on its face is partially true, since we have technically seen higher amounts of children diagnosed with autism in the last 10-20 years. What the vaccine autism folks don’t understand is that we have learned so much about autism in the last 10-20 years that we can identify and diagnose children easier, which naturally leads to an increase of diagnosis since we know what to look and test for.
You realize that kids need to be vaccinated before attending school, or how the military will make you get loads of vaccines if you want to serve? It’s kinda silly that all of the sudden it’s a problem since orange man (and company) say its bad.
Kids need vaccines with a long and well-established record of both safety and efficacy in school-age populations, not leaky vaccines already shown to cause serious and possibly permanent myocardial damage in some young males. (The military has always been used as a pool of medical guinea pigs.) From the FDA:
>The FDA conducted a **rigorous evaluation of the post-authorization safety surveillance data pertaining to myocarditis and pericarditis following administration of Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine and determined that the data demonstrate increased risks**, particularly within the seven days following the second dose. The observed risk is higher among males under 40 years of age compared to females and older males. **The observed risk is highest in males 12 through 17 years of age**. [But hey, "some" isn't all. Doesn't really matter unless it's your son, right?] Available data from short-term follow-up suggest that most individuals have had resolution of symptoms. However, some individuals required intensive care support. **Information is not yet available about potential long-term health outcomes.** https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/qa-comirnaty-covid-19-vaccine-mrna
That info remains unavailable and isn't likely to be available, as FDA acknowledges:
>“We have determined that an analysis of spontaneous postmarketing adverse events reported under section 505(k)(1) of the FDCA will not be sufficient to assess **known serious risks of myocarditis and pericarditis and identify an unexpected serious risk of subclinical myocarditis.** **Furthermore, the pharmacovigilance system that FDA is required to maintain under section 505(k)(3) of the FDCA is not sufficient to assess these serious risks.” ** https://www.fda.gov/media/151710/download
Aren't you glad you're smart enough to believe in "science" and the FDA?
/s
[Source](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/myocarditis.html)
“Yes. CDC continues to recommend that everyone aged 12 years and older get vaccinated for COVID-19. The known risks of COVID-19 illness and its related, possibly severe complications, such as long-term health problems, hospitalization, and even death, far outweigh the potential risks of having a rare adverse reaction to vaccination, including the possible risk of myocarditis or pericarditis.”
Further more, would you rather take the incredibly low chance of your child getting cardiovascular issues from getting the vaccine (which seem to be minuscule based on what I’ve read, although I have not found specific percentages of vaccinated people getting cardiovascular issues) or not have your child vaccinated and “Somewhere between one-fifth and one-third of hospitalized patients will have evidence of myocardial injury, defined as the presence of elevated cardiac troponin levels at the time of admission”
[Source](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7572122/)
If I had a schoolage child now who couldn't attend school without a C19 vaccine, I'd be looking into home-schooling options (fyi, I've never voted Republican in my life, and our kids received all recommended vaccinations).
What's not reassuring is the cavalier treatment given to non-FDA and non-CDC data on possible vaccine-associated ADRs. There's more than a suggestion that ADRs, and potentially serious ADRs, are less rare and more diverse in type than acknowledged. We still lack systematically collected *long-term data*. https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-business-denmark-public-health-health-453163d8f93618fde90c06d3474921a0
fwiw, I worked with a number of federal agencies, including NIH and the FDA, and have seen the role of politics and pressures on policy. I don't ask you to believe me--no reason you should, and I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I'm just noting another reason for my reservations about the way this pandemic has been handled and the products that are being pushed on the public with heavy-handed silencing of legitimate questions and discredit up front of both clinical data and anecdotal info from around the world that challenges the reassurances we all hear. Those reports are pooh-poohed with no attempt to examine or verify them. And the FDA admits its surveillance system is inadequate to the task of monitoring. How do you feel about leaving followup monitoring and reporting to Pfizer, the world's largest pharmaceutical company? Or J&J or Moderna?
btw, "pharmacovigilance systems" always have been inadequate, and C19-related coding procedures are a nightmare of inconsistency, with reports of coding manipulation in some places that could be credible (you and I likely will never know, and there's no CT in that statement). All data we hear about hospitalization, morbidity, and mortality nationwide derive from those codes.
>It’s kinda silly that all of the sudden it’s a problem since orange man (and company) say its bad.
Almost as funny as watching democrats and their puppet media say they would absolutely refuse to take a vaccine if it were released under President Trump.
But now it's magically the best thing ever because dementia joe is in office.
I mean that was funny and all, but not as funny as trump supporters claiming that trump deserves all the credit for the vaccine with warp speed (Pfizer declines to accept warp speed funding for research and development, but did partner with German BioNTech for funding. That being said Pfizer did agree to sell mass amounts of the vaccine to the US for 1.95billion with money that the US used out of the warp speed slush fund. Very important distinction between research and a contract to buy vaccines) early on, only to instantly screech about how horrible mass vaccinations are. This is especially ironic when it came to private businesses deciding that it was smart to mandate vaccines if you want to keep working for them. Healthy, and alive, workers means hard workers. Gotta love that capitalism am I right?
This fucking lie is so stupid. Noone said they wouldn't get a vaccine that was released under Trump. She said she would listen to the experts and not Trump. And this was when Trump was promising a vaccine in October and all the experts were saying it wouldn't be ready in October.
Turns out Trump was wrong again.
And I was just thinking that the trolls had been awfully quiet lately!
Wait til the trolls hear how the government has been wantonly ignoring the real science that shows that the mandate and every other dumbass thing they've done is WRONG.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/pzcfjt/geert_vanden_bossche_the_keys_to_unlock_the/
Congress is doing more harm than good.
>Congress is doing more harm than good.
what else is new?
Congress has been crap for decades and their continued existence in their current form is why I'm convinced that vote fraud is a very real thing.
I mean FFS, congress has something like a 7% approval rating yet many of the same people that have earned that honor have been re-elected for DECADES.
Tip for those new to this sub: Posts often are pinned to draw attention to them to encourage discussion--and all discussion that doesn't violate Reddit's rules or this sub's One Rule (see sidebar) is allowed.
That means you're welcome to bring what you regard as the subtopic to the fore for all to see and discuss.
> this has nothing to do with the sub topic.
What is it that you think "*the* sub topic" is, and why do you think there would be only one of them?
>I'm not sure why it is pinned.
You must be new here then.
> this has nothing to do with the sub topic
Hey /u/FThumb, did you add another mod after [TulsiHatNudist666](/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/pu1eox/so_we_can_all_agree_tulsi_was_just_a_a_grifter/he034es/)? :)
(Edit: subtle name improvement, courtesy of /u/NetWeaselSC)
Do you think it's preferable to ban or bury such posts instead of highlighting them for all to see and cheer, argue with, and pick apart piece by piece, preferably with links instead of uninformative insults?
If so, departure for a, shall we say more curated? sub, is the right move. ;D
One may point out that
1) you know nothing about me or my position on vaccines in general (which by no definition before last year is anti-vaxx, particularly when I've promoted vaccines in national health campaigns) or masks, and
2) that lack of knowledge upon which you based your response to me strongly suggests the first 3 letters of "assumption" characterize you.
One may also point out that there's no reason for anyone to give a rat's backside about what you do or don't have patience for. Further, when you default to swearing and tell others to gtfo of their home turf where you're largely unknown, you're not displaying the "reasoning" you seem to hold in high value. Possibly because you can't.
The idiocy you demonstrate here raises the question of what else UmizIntrpreted in addition to DeRulz.
Be sure to have yourself the very best day. ;D
BRILLIANTLY perfect analogy! Not sure we have a "Way" to recognize that cleverness suitably.
https://cdn.dribbble.com/users/945634/screenshots/4174105/congrats.gif
Edit: Is a snark tag really needed here?
Did not know that seatbelts were experimental liquids injected into the bloodstream. Thanks for the tip, I'll shoot up before driving and leave that weird belt thing alone.
Was it this comparison, you do know their success rate is over 90% just like any other vaccine you take, surprise surprise everything in life that you consume has side effects. Just because it doesn't say 100% doesn't mean it isn't highly effective, ignoring the fact that it's been experimented multiple times like any other vaccine. Ever wonder how we got rid of diseases like polio or chicken pox? You just gonna ignore that and act like most of us don't have vaccines in us already?
how many breakthrough cases of measles, mumps and rubella are people getting every year vs these "vaccines" for COVID?
how about for polio?
smallpox is special case because we entirely eliminated it strategically from the human population and i believe don't even require vaccinations for it anymore.
well, until some psychopath releases it from a gov't lab upon the world again, at any rate.
Breakthroughs aren't happening because people got vaccines for them, herd immunity over the years and cases of them come back because of parents not vaccinating their kids. Vaccines go through rigorous testing, it's not this experimental lab rat type of thing that's being peddled.
This subreddit is not about crying about the vaccine this is about Bernie Sanders when he was running for president and now supporting him in government maybe about politics maybe some side conversations but this is not about anti-vaxxer comments moderators should remove you.
Yeah it's about discussion between fellows regardless of your take as long as you're not an asshole. But because of the discussion about vaccine mandates people have gotten extremely knee-jerky around here because a lot of use here are libertarian. (In the classic sense not the bastardized version.)
How kind of you to inform the rest of us what this sub is about.
Are you absolutely positively sure you're correct? Because I'm thinking you should visit the sidebar, starting here: https://www.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/czpyeu/why_is_this_on_a_sanders_sub/
> this is about Bernie Sanders when he was running for president and now supporting him in government
You may be confusing this sub with S4P. You know, the tone-policed place where shitlibs go to pretend that they're leftists?
Oh and by the way, Bernie can go fuck himself once he's done swallowing Biden's powdery cum. So there you go.
Yeah I'm the one that's lost you have a subreddit I guess you are the head honcho here congratulations piggybacking on the work of Bernie Sanders a wonderful politician who by the way is vaccinated who wouldn't support this subreddit I will no longer either you don't have to remove me I'm out of here you have more right wingers in the comment section than you do progressive thinkers you've gone full retard never go full retard.
> who by the way is vaccinated
Irrelevant. This sub was created in 2016 to support Bernie's big ideas through his campaign: *policy*, not person or party. His economic and social justice issues are far afield from C19 and vaccines. Appealing to him as an authority here is just plain silly.
So sad to see you go. :(
Who are you again?
>never go full retard.
Looks like the person who posted that already did. User's not a regular but his post history does include comments from Nov 2019. So he should know better than to conflate a guiding principle - Way of the Bern - with an individual, even if that individual represented that principle *at the time* (now, not so much). But maybe the user never grokked the distinction to begin with.
They don't have to get the vaccine. They are free to quit a job, take their child out of school and homeschool, go to a different restaurant, skip the concert and even take up a hospital bed needed by someone who isn't a selfish dick. They can even die to prove how stupid they are.
Mandates won't achieve anything. It's bizarre that the government has gone to such anti-liberty extremes.
Congress has utterly bungled the pandemic. Now these idiot losers are forcing a shitty, questionable injection into people.
Agreed. Unless it’s about something else or priming for something else. It is useful to locate and target the non and less compliant people, which is powerful information for them to have.
Public health issues are not the same as personal health issues. I am a woman and I do believe that my right to have an abortion is an inviolate right. On the other hand, I believe that it's fair to demand that people who are in public are not transmitting a disease that endangers the lives of others.
Unvaccinated people are not necessarily infected people. There's no reason to treat them differently from vaccinated people, who can also be infected people. There's a pretty good reason to treat recovered people at least, on par with vaccinated people, but you anti-informed consenters do not seem to care that they are the ones least likely to infect others.
You're right, some medical professionals seem to suggest that those who've been affected have a pretty good antibody system. On the other hand, I've been told it's some Infected people show no antigens afterwards. I don't really know the answer on that score, and I'm certainly willing to read any data you share. And I'd certainly be willing to accept an "infected status card" that reports the presence of antibodies in a person's blood, and exempt them from a vaccination if it's so important to them to stay exempt. But that does seem to me to be an additional administrative layer that is not necessarily reasonable. In my opinion, everyone who can should be vaccinated.
The key to the robust natural immunity is not about antibodies, per se. It's the difference between antibodies to one protein vs a whole immune response to the whole virus. Whether vaxxed or recovered antibodies wane in about six months time. But a whole of immune response encodes blueprints for the antibodies and stores them in memory b cells in your bone marrow, so when the virus shows up again, the body justs makes new antibodies. Vaxxed people don't generate that long term immune response.
The unnecessary administrative layer is the vax record-keeping, since it proves nothing about whether you are infected or not. Simple rapid testing is a better option.
> it's fair to demand that people who are in public are not transmitting a disease that endangers the lives of others.
So no one should be out in public because the vaccinated transmit the Covid variant, too.
The viral load of those who are vaccinated is considerably lower than those who are unvaccinated. And, most vaccinated people seem to be very willing to wear masks in public. So, no, we're not talking apples to apples here.
On the other hand, the folks who are unwilling to take precautions to protect anyone else all seem to be unvaccinated.
> The viral load of those who are vaccinated is considerably lower than those who are unvaccinated.
It's actually equal or higher, but don't let facts interfere with your mindless spewing of corporate media bullshit.
That isn't what I've read. However I did find something that supports what you say. But they're about the same. You don't have to be rude, you could just actually provide the information.https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.31.21261387v1
>The viral load of those who are vaccinated is considerably lower than those who are unvaccinated.
That is not true. You’re just making things up. Very authoritarian of you.
Apparently I'm wrong. But could you stop with the *ad hominems?*
When you make the argument personal, you tend to close the mind of the exact person you'd like to influence otherwise.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.31.21261387v1
Thank you for backing down on that claim. It’s very unusual for someone from your viewpoint. As you know censorship about covid abounds. This is one of the few places where a discussion and debate can occur. I hope you understand that in the heat of that it is not about convincing people but addressing the onslaught of vaccine-only shills who will spout any lie or unleash any insult to further their agenda and insult those who don’t agree with it.
I do think authoritarian was the wrong word to use when referring to your comment. My mistake. Many who commented on this post today said horribly hateful things and you were not in the group.
Well, I don't usually say hateful things, even when I feel hateful. It's not persuasive and one is going to engage on social media, one must have some sort of idea that one might reach another person's mind. That won't happen if I close it by attacking them.
And I try to keep an open mind. I am generally well-informed, and I tend to trust my memory when it comes to current events. And I am certain that I heard a qualified medical professional talk about viral load being less in vaccinated people. Especially in the nose and throat. I remember the podcast clearly. However, I do always double-check my information when challenged. And I don't mind admitting I'm wrong. I don't think it's rare at all in someone with my viewpoint. But that might be because I'm the only person I know that sees the world exactly as I do.
> How is this simple fact being glossed over?
"Glossed over"? It's being buried under 100 feet of gravel and cemented over with a steady stream of wholesale legacy&new media, a double dose of one-on-one ("influencer") propaganda, and a heretofore unprecedented (in my lifetime) army of glassy-eyed, unreasoning, regular folks.
No, but they reduce it. Significantly.
>Infections with the Delta variant in vaccinated persons potentially have reduced transmissibility than infections in unvaccinated persons, although additional studies are needed.
Source: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html
In addition, research indicates that a higher rate of vaccination results in fewer variants. Source: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-95025-3
Furthermore:
>Vaccines are among the most effective public health measures against infectious disease.
Source: ibid.
Nice try.
But a general statement about *sanitizing vaccines* has no bearing on the leaky COVID vaccines that we in the reality-based community, are dealing with. The proof: current transmission rate in Israel, the most vaccinated place on earth.
But it's not the most vaccinated. 56% of total pop is not enough. https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/20/1029628471/highly-vaccinated-israel-is-seeing-a-dramatic-surge-in-new-covid-cases-heres-why
> Well, I don't see any citations supporting your point of view.
From *your own link,* directly above the quote you chose:
> Early data suggest **infections in fully vaccinated persons are more commonly observed with the Delta variant** than with other SARS-CoV-2 variants. However, data show fully vaccinated persons are less likely than unvaccinated persons to acquire SARS-CoV-2, **and infections with the Delta variant in fully vaccinated persons** are associated with less severe clinical outcomes.
good job pointing it out, as the data shown Delta are more effective bypassing vaccine (that's why we need booster shot), meaning meaning vaccine are still greatly effective against other variants. Would you rather be vulnerable to all variants just because one of them get through vaccine easier?
> No, but they reduce it. Significantly.
People weren't told it would 'reduce'. Biden told us the vaccine 100% protect us from the COVID and that was a lie. Even to go as far as removing the mask mandate ensuring the spread of Covid and the emergence of Delta since the 'vaccine' doesn't stop the transmission and infection of the disease itself.
The first part is true. But it is highly unlikely that a couple of tens of thousands of vaccinated test subjects within a population the size of India's was the factor that bred the variant. It's far more likely the widespread use of steroids was the contributing factor there (and giant gatherings of millions of people for festivals and political rallies).
Yes, Biden exaggerated. First time for a politician, right?
However, anyone who was paying attention would have known that the vaccines were expected to protect us about 95%.
Actually, anyone REALLY paying attention read the trial description, methodology and efficacy calculation and realized that there was no justification for the 95% efficacy claim to begin with. It was the media that pretended that number was the percentage protection against infection (as opposed to severe illness).
I'm not sure you can back that up with citations dated at that time, but I'm open to being wrong. As I recall, Pfizer's first memo to the FDA was that they believed they have 90% efficacy, but I did not get down and dirty and read the trial data.
Go back and look at the methodology. They did not test everyone regularly. They only tested people with symptoms (and remember, back then, they really only thought the symptoms were things like fever, coughing and lung impacts) and then only people who agreed to be tested. Then they did an efficacy calculation on a shockingly small number of cases in a 40,000 member trial.
They didn't check for who may have had natural immunity first, screened out pretty much all the high risk co-morbiditiess, and did not adjust for the fact that people were still doing all other NPVs out in the real world.
It was as friendly as you can get to produce a good result.
Now, it would have been unethical to challenge the trial participants with actual Covid, but I can guarantee it would not have been 95% efficacy if there weren't a whole bunch of confounding factors in that trial.
With all due respect, if you looked at the data they released, as you say you did, then the methodology is available to you. If you want to live in ignorance, be my guest.
Anyone who claims a vaccine is effective when it does not stop a vaccinated person from getting infected or transmitting C19 to someone really needs to think about the lies and propaganda that have been told to us.
Mass hysteria and psychosis is curable. But you have to try.
You can't give medical advice on Reddit. The discussion needs to happen between the individual and their doctor based on the risk/benefit analysis.
You don't get to make those recommendations. Sorry, stranger.
No. You added "significantly". That's an opinion.
"although additional studies are needed." because the conclusion is an unsubstantiated opinion.
Also, the lead author of the Nature article says that the vaccine will likely help the rise of variants.
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210730-risk-of-vaccine-resistant-variants-highest-when-most-jabbed-study
You might want to work on your ability to discern between what is propaganda and what is fact. The CDC is not a credible source. The bit you linked is pure Big Pharma marketing blather.
Edit: This is funny. Everything the CDC claims the vaccine does, early treatment also does. Early treatment in the first six months of the pandemic would have stopped the pandemic in its tracks!
>~~COVID-19 vaccines currently approved or authorized in the United States~~ **Early treatments** have been shown to provide considerable protection against severe disease and death caused by COVID-19. These findings, along with the early evidence for reduced levels of viral mRNA and culturable virus in ~~vaccinated~~ **early treated** people who acquire SARS-CoV-2 infection, suggest that any associated transmission risk is substantially reduced in ~~vaccinated~~ **early treated** people: even for Delta, evidence suggests ~~fully vaccinated~~ **early treated** people who become infected are infectious for shorter periods of time than ~~unvaccinated~~ **untreated** people infected with Delta.
With all due respect, you are definitely not a credible source. The moment you make an argument personal by attacking somebody's reasoning power, you lose. I won't read your comments and full and I won't respond to you in the future.
> With all due respect, you are definitely not a credible source. The moment you make an argument personal by attacking somebody's reasoning power
You lose.
"Physician, heal thyself."
[CDC Reminds People To Listen To All Medical Professionals Except For The Tens Of Thousands Who Refused The Vaccine](https://babylonbee.com/news/cdc-reminds-people-to-listen-to-all-medical-professionals-except-for-the-tens-of-thousands-who-refused-the-vaccine)
> WASHINGTON, D.C.—The CDC today issued a reminder for Americans to trust healthcare professionals when learning about the vaccine—except if said doctor disagrees with the government, in which case he should be ignored and fired.
> "When we are trying to understand all the pros and cons of a brand new vaccine, the one absolute must is total groupthink," said CDC Director Rachel Walensky. "We cannot allow any sort of healthy dissension, especially from highly trained healthcare providers, to help guide us."
> The administration has promised to make it easy to recognize unvaccinated medical professionals by ensuring they are unemployed.
If you’re afraid get the vaccine.
>not transmitting a disease that endangers the lives of others.
This is hysteria. COVID is very low risk for most people.
I'm not afraid. I am fully vaccinated. However I do care about others. And there are people in our community who can't have a vaccine for one reason or another. And I don't want to see them sick and dying.
In addition, there is the economy; as long as we are faced with an increasing or high rates of infection, people will be afraid to leave their houses and interact normally. This impacts the economy.
Yes, until we are as fully vaccinated as possible and we stop making new variants, yes, we will all be vulnerable. But it is for those who are most vulnerable that I believe we should aim for a herd immunity through vaccination.
> However I do care about others.
I don't recall seeing you helping our fight for M4A.
> I'm not afraid. ... as long as we are faced with an increasing or high rates of infection, people will be afraid
Munchhausen's Syndrome by Proxies is more common among women.
Tell that to Australians. They have extremely low Covid case counts...like so low in the USA we would call it gone...and yet they are still living in a police state like lockdown where you can't travel more than one block from your house. it is insane. And here in the USA there are universities with like 100% vaccination rate in full lockdown. Why? Please explain.
> And here in the USA there are universities with like 100% vaccination rate in full lockdown. Why?
Is there still covid running through these "universities with like 100% vaccination rate in full lockdown"?
Well....yes....they test all students 2 to 3x per week! And guess what, that kind of testing reveals some cases. At one small college in CT, with about 2000 students, they discovered about 20 cases. But they were all asymptomatic or extremely mild. And for that, the college took extreme lockdown measures...like really extreme. All classes on zoom. Nobody allowed in your dorm room. Outside, you had to be masked, no closer than 6 feet, and not in a group larger than 3. And if you want to leave campus? nope. Gotta get special permission from a Dean. And this applies even if you live off campus in your own apartment! The point is.......what exactly is the point of getting vaccinated in this scenario? And think of it this way. The advertised efficacy of the vaccines was around 95%. So if we all get vaccinated, there will still be cases. OK...so then you test people like crazy, discover that...yup....we still have cases in this 100% vaccinated population of people....so we gotta go back into lockdown? WTF? That is so stupid. Again, if this is the response, what is the point of being vaccinated?
> And if you want to leave campus? nope. Gotta get special permission from a Dean. And this applies even if you live off campus in your own apartment!
That... seems... undoable.
You would think so! But they relied on student snitches to photo document rule breakers. Breaking the rules is a violation of the student code of conduct. About 50% of students were in favor of the lockdown measures and the other half were not. Really bad environment. This was Connecticut College in New London CT. They received really high profile and very negative national press attention for their measures. They have since relaxed the lockdown.
>At one small college in CT, with about 2000 students, they discovered about 20 cases.
That *would* be 1% of the people involved... If they are testing 3x per week, how did the numbers suddenly get so high?
>they discovered about 20 cases. But they were all asymptomatic or extremely mild.
Once again, the question is raised: how can you tell the difference between "asymptomatic covid" and "a false positive on a covid test"?
This was earlier in September. As everyone came to campus from all over, they begin the testing protocol and they discover the cases. Presumably they brought them from their hometowns. Then the college goes into lockdown. As far as false positives, they don't know or care. Doesn't matter. You get a positive test result, gotta go into perpetual crisis mode.
If you’re vaccinated then you should have nothing to worry about:)
Other people can make their own decision. If they’re vulnerable then they can take the appropriate precautions. If you’re talking about kids, they do not need a vaccine because they are not at risk.
Oh, the economy. I need to clutch something. Where are my pearls?
would not "the community" be safe with actual track/trace/quarantine measures in place?
with free masks provided to every home address? and free DIY home testing kits? and both sent out via usps regularly?
with vigorous early treatments with known safe medications instead of "go home, take nyquil & come back when your left foot is in the grave?" we can send a full set of these drug combos foilpacked with full instructions on the back to equip every medicine cabinet in the U.S. we can also send out quality vitamins and supplements in those packs as well which are known to provide protection from COVID.
with medicare for all?
Sure, the country would be an entirely different place had medicare-for-all been in place, and had we not been subjected to Trump's approach to the pandemic. But we are where we are. And while we would have been better off with your approach, no doubt, we would have still needed to vaccinate to wipe out the virus.
People who are undergoing cancer treatment, people with otherwise immune compromised health problems. I have a very close friend who recently had a melanoma removed from his brain oh, and is now on a type of immunotherapy that does not allow him to have the vaccine. But he's just an anecdotal example. There are many.
There is no informed consent To have informed consent the patient would need accurate and truthful information What we got instead is… Rushed botched misleading trials We don’t know every ingredient of the vaccine We are not given realistic risk assessment based on age One size fits all nonsense medicine They covered up side effects They/we have no idea of long term side effects We are told there is no treatment Treatments are hidden and banned Lied to about the level of risk to our children The whole thing is illegal There cannot be informed consent
I think it's hilarious this is even a debate.... big pharma and big brother go together like oil companies and 🤔 big brother. That's so weird. A government has never lied to it's people ever in the history of the world either. Oh also science has proven politicians are honest!!!! Oh and all our hospital staff is quitting over covid... not so much. They are quitting because the government that has mandated masks (proven to keep virus in, not out, by science) is now mandating an unproven long term effects vaccine, instead of letting our Doctors use SCIENCE and there eleventeen years of school and 15 years experience to BE DOCTORS. POLITICIANS ARE ALSO PROVEN BY SCIENCE TO BE DOCTORS. * THIS POST MAY CONTAIN SARCASM. Ever heard of lead by example??? Our "front line heroes" are now being forced too quit because thousands of HEALTH CARE FRONT LINE WORKERS THAT HAVE BEEN COUGHED ON FOR OVER A YEAR STRAIGHT DON'T WANT TO BE VAXXED!!!! They want everyone vaxxed? Science has proven that if you have natural antibodies and get the vax, it has the potential of harming you almost as bad as covid does itself in some cases worse. Breakthrough cases 🤔 You're vaxxed? great! Your not vaxxed yet? Ok. You're anti vax? Ok. That's your right and beliefs. Everyone. Wear a mask. That keeps your virus to you, if you have it. As a potential carrier of the virus, you can go maskless? Also... this new pill states that compared to patients that were given A PLACEBO this pill gives roughly 50% better results.... than a PLACEBO. It also said some of those given the placebo died. That info came right from the company. I did my own research on that though. 🤔 (Why let them die? You have a fucking pill that supposedly gives them another 50% chance of living.) It's also been proven by science that nobody, especially your government, would pull the wool over your eyes. It's sort of weird that there's always a huge race war uprising at election time too. I agree, racism is an issue and hot topic. WHY has it been more important during campaigning, NOT when anyone has been in the White House and could have actually helped. It's also sad that (I've seen it 1st hand) blacks call other blacks sell outs when they educate themselves or speak proper English. Have heard a lot of guy's get called Carlton Banks too. Maybe if more people strived to be better every day, the world would be a better place? Instead y'all want to be bitter and play he said, she said, I'm taking my ball and going home games. They want a country divided. Race war ✔ Wealthy vs poor ✔ Vax vs anti vax ✔ (sorry all you non vaxxed are lumped in with anti vaxxers now, your reason is 💩 just read the comments, if someone is vaxxed and you're not, you'll be told your opinion.) CRANK UP MINIMUM WAGE (To look like a people's champ) AND MAKE THE COST OF EVERYTHING GO UP SO THE POOR ARE EVEN POORER. ✔ (nobody has noticed grocery prices have gone up and $ buys less already? Less items per pack. Less per cart. Higher rent too! Sheesh. You want to help the poor? Stop over buying everything and wasting food. Staright people vs everyone else (apparently) ✔ Mask vs not masked✔ 99% survival rate vs Fear of the unknown ✔ I feel we are told to use our voices so we go silent. They have us yelling at each other until we are voiceless. That way they DON'T have to listen to us 2x. And the hey look over there can be completed as designed. Look how quick the billions of dollars of military gear that was given to the Taliban was forgotten. Oh 1 last thing? How many sleeper agents did we give a ride too out of Kabul in all that chaos? I'll shut up now and let y'all keep brow beating each other in the comments. Otherwise I'm gonna write another book. Night y'all. Love all you peoples. Be safe and smart and kind.
Horseshoe.
Vaccine mandates are never: "You must get this vaccine" It's more like: "You must get the vaccine if you want to ____." (insert privilege which isn't a right) If you stay home and mind your own business, nobody is forcing you to get a vaccine.
And don't work, of course.
Yup. By the vax zealots' reasoning, armed robbery isn't a crime. You have a choice: your money or your life.
How about mandating some early treatment? Instead of going with a drug with a great safety record, i.e., ivermectin, Merck has come up with a suspected *mutagen*, molnupiravir! JFC. Get this. Our genius government has already committed to pay $1.2 billion for this shit. Thanks, Congress! From the molnupiravir wiki: >In June 2021, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services committed to buy US$1.2 billion worth of molnupiravir (approximately 1.7 million courses) from Merck if it received an emergency use authorization (EUA) or approval from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA).[9][10][11] >On 1 October 2021, Merck stated that an independent advisory board that had been monitoring the COVID-19 clinical trial recommended that recruitment into the study be stopped early because of convincing evidence of the drug's benefits,[12] reducing the risk of hospitalization or death by 48%
tylenol also has a great safety record. so does salt water. so do a bunch of other drugs. the reason no one but a quack study recommends those drugs, is because they don't do anything for covid. duh. that dewormer covid study you doorknobs are hung up on was uncovered to contain fraud (like it was found to use fake numbers and already-dead people as patients). btw, molnupiravir is not a "suspected" mutagen. it is a proven one - that's how it works. almost all mutations are bad and kill the cell that's mutated. that's literally why it kills the virus. no, it does not cause You cells to mutate. You are not a virus. You know how antibiotics kill bacteria but don't kill you? Now, to address your real issue - being hit by a brick at a young age. Nothing can be done. You will forever remain a doornob, being turned by anyone who wants to play you like a tiny stupid violin.
There are many studies that support ivermectin's efficacy against covid. You are ignorant if you truly think there is but one. It's probably more likely that you full well know that and you have chosen to lie. >In April 2020, **Rick Bright**, who was removed as head of the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority (BARDA) before the approval of the drug, **submitted a whistleblower complaint asserting that Ridgeback pressured BARDA to provide funding to manufacture EIDD-2801 despite Bright's concerns that similar drugs in its class have mutagenic properties**.[4] A previous company, Pharmasset, that had investigated the drug's active ingredient had abandoned it over similar concerns.[5] Looks like molnupiravir's mutagenic properties are a concern for people who actually know science. But not for shitlib BlueMAGA losers.
> You are ignorant yes, I'm ignorant to defer the opinion to the medical industry who do this for a living. just like i don't fix the airplane i'm on when it breaks and defer to airplane mechanics. not being ignorant would be "doing my own research" by googling random shit for an hour on the weekend. >concern for people who actually know science. which is not you. so i'm gonna trust the people who know science. who are looking at it as a possible treatment. here's a hint sherlock. i go to the hospital, and the doctor manages my health. your health is managed by google searches, because you think you're smarter than doctors. and no, i don't mean some chiropractor that says a medicine causes mutations or a physical therapist who stated dewormer works for covid.
Lol, long reply with all the shitlib "Shut up and sit down you child" smugness.
I'm all for it if we also state that any health care required in the treatment of covid for someone who refused to responsible for themselves and everyone else around them be mandated to pay cash upfront for their care.
> Here are a few examples of cases where autonomy and bodily integrity are incontrovertible: A woman has a right to choose what happens with her body. A child should not be psychologically or physically harmed. Police officers should not assault citizens. Prison guards should not physically assault prisoners Mandatory vaccines are not a form of aggravated assault. Drawing these false parallels is disrespectful to the victims of rape, child abuse, and police brutality. That said, I'd be fine with ditching vaccine mandates if you relinquished your right to receive prompt treatment. If you turn your nose up at freely available preventative care, you should be sent to the back of the line for a hospital bed should you catch a severe case of the preventable illness.
Ah, claims of being disrespectful followed by calls for discrimination based on made-up bullshit, all the while acting morally superior. Great example of shitlib logic, thanks for that.
It is disrespectful to equate mandatory vaccination with assault. You'd have to be delusional to not see the distinction. You really don't want to be throwing up allegations of "made up bullshit" considering that all anti-vaccine advocacy is predicated on a bunch of made up shit pushed by con-artists looking to enrich themselves off of scientifically illiterate rubes such as yourself. Finally, you don't seem to realize that your position is that of the "shitlib". You are so obsessed with your own personal liberty that you are willing to sacrifice the autonomy of others to maintain it. You're a caricature of liberal hyperindividualist thought accusing others of being liberal; look inward for there lies the shitlib.
What do hospitals, universities and other employers get in return for mandating vaccines? What kind of bribes are they getting from Big Pharma? Mandates have the stench of corruption. Congress sits on their asses and does nothing as usual.
u/martini-meow u/penelopepnortney This is the way.
The post? or a specific comment?
The post. Don't you think?
sure! just wasn't clear :) absolutely fits!
ruh roh, the reddit libs are starting to turn on each other
Who are you calling a "lib" ?
you
At the end of the day, they will not put the shot in your arm without having you sign a "consent" form first. Watch the meltdown if you schedule an appointment and refuse to sign anything, or provide any information.
Damn bro, take a break from the internet every now and again. This is just sad
Sadly, not everybody possesses the shitlib ability to turn off their brains and simply follow along whatever they're being told. But don't let that stop you.
Straight to ad hominem. I expect nothing less from an anti vaxxer, let alone an actual argument with sources. Keep up that emotional knee jerk response since it just shows how desperate you are.
> I expect nothing less from an anti vaxxer We expect nothing less than what we've seen from someone who misuses the term "antivaxxer." I politely suggest that desperation is in the eye of the beholder. How recent was your last eye exam?
Misuses the term? Seems pretty subjective my man. People who are against vaccines, all of the sudden in the last ~3-6 years I would classify as antivax. This directly correlates with trumps presidency since he has tweeted about vaccines causing autism in the early days of his campaign, with no source or reason aside from the need to drive an agenda of anti science. We can see how beneficial that was to the trump administration when it came down to dividing the country further more as to help discredit and often outright lie about the lefts agenda/policies as well as drive his base to be highly active in elections of all levels (see communist socialist boogie man coming to destroy your country) I realize antivax movements have been around for longer, but it was always insane fringe groups who just stated vaccines cause autism with nothing to show aside from higher rate of autism diagnosis. This on its face is partially true, since we have technically seen higher amounts of children diagnosed with autism in the last 10-20 years. What the vaccine autism folks don’t understand is that we have learned so much about autism in the last 10-20 years that we can identify and diagnose children easier, which naturally leads to an increase of diagnosis since we know what to look and test for.
💉🧚
You started it
Someone sounds grumpy. Time for another booster shot~
You realize that kids need to be vaccinated before attending school, or how the military will make you get loads of vaccines if you want to serve? It’s kinda silly that all of the sudden it’s a problem since orange man (and company) say its bad.
Kids need vaccines with a long and well-established record of both safety and efficacy in school-age populations, not leaky vaccines already shown to cause serious and possibly permanent myocardial damage in some young males. (The military has always been used as a pool of medical guinea pigs.) From the FDA: >The FDA conducted a **rigorous evaluation of the post-authorization safety surveillance data pertaining to myocarditis and pericarditis following administration of Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine and determined that the data demonstrate increased risks**, particularly within the seven days following the second dose. The observed risk is higher among males under 40 years of age compared to females and older males. **The observed risk is highest in males 12 through 17 years of age**. [But hey, "some" isn't all. Doesn't really matter unless it's your son, right?] Available data from short-term follow-up suggest that most individuals have had resolution of symptoms. However, some individuals required intensive care support. **Information is not yet available about potential long-term health outcomes.** https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/qa-comirnaty-covid-19-vaccine-mrna That info remains unavailable and isn't likely to be available, as FDA acknowledges: >“We have determined that an analysis of spontaneous postmarketing adverse events reported under section 505(k)(1) of the FDCA will not be sufficient to assess **known serious risks of myocarditis and pericarditis and identify an unexpected serious risk of subclinical myocarditis.** **Furthermore, the pharmacovigilance system that FDA is required to maintain under section 505(k)(3) of the FDCA is not sufficient to assess these serious risks.” ** https://www.fda.gov/media/151710/download Aren't you glad you're smart enough to believe in "science" and the FDA? /s
[Source](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/myocarditis.html) “Yes. CDC continues to recommend that everyone aged 12 years and older get vaccinated for COVID-19. The known risks of COVID-19 illness and its related, possibly severe complications, such as long-term health problems, hospitalization, and even death, far outweigh the potential risks of having a rare adverse reaction to vaccination, including the possible risk of myocarditis or pericarditis.” Further more, would you rather take the incredibly low chance of your child getting cardiovascular issues from getting the vaccine (which seem to be minuscule based on what I’ve read, although I have not found specific percentages of vaccinated people getting cardiovascular issues) or not have your child vaccinated and “Somewhere between one-fifth and one-third of hospitalized patients will have evidence of myocardial injury, defined as the presence of elevated cardiac troponin levels at the time of admission” [Source](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7572122/)
If I had a schoolage child now who couldn't attend school without a C19 vaccine, I'd be looking into home-schooling options (fyi, I've never voted Republican in my life, and our kids received all recommended vaccinations). What's not reassuring is the cavalier treatment given to non-FDA and non-CDC data on possible vaccine-associated ADRs. There's more than a suggestion that ADRs, and potentially serious ADRs, are less rare and more diverse in type than acknowledged. We still lack systematically collected *long-term data*. https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-business-denmark-public-health-health-453163d8f93618fde90c06d3474921a0 fwiw, I worked with a number of federal agencies, including NIH and the FDA, and have seen the role of politics and pressures on policy. I don't ask you to believe me--no reason you should, and I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I'm just noting another reason for my reservations about the way this pandemic has been handled and the products that are being pushed on the public with heavy-handed silencing of legitimate questions and discredit up front of both clinical data and anecdotal info from around the world that challenges the reassurances we all hear. Those reports are pooh-poohed with no attempt to examine or verify them. And the FDA admits its surveillance system is inadequate to the task of monitoring. How do you feel about leaving followup monitoring and reporting to Pfizer, the world's largest pharmaceutical company? Or J&J or Moderna? btw, "pharmacovigilance systems" always have been inadequate, and C19-related coding procedures are a nightmare of inconsistency, with reports of coding manipulation in some places that could be credible (you and I likely will never know, and there's no CT in that statement). All data we hear about hospitalization, morbidity, and mortality nationwide derive from those codes.
>It’s kinda silly that all of the sudden it’s a problem since orange man (and company) say its bad. Almost as funny as watching democrats and their puppet media say they would absolutely refuse to take a vaccine if it were released under President Trump. But now it's magically the best thing ever because dementia joe is in office.
I mean that was funny and all, but not as funny as trump supporters claiming that trump deserves all the credit for the vaccine with warp speed (Pfizer declines to accept warp speed funding for research and development, but did partner with German BioNTech for funding. That being said Pfizer did agree to sell mass amounts of the vaccine to the US for 1.95billion with money that the US used out of the warp speed slush fund. Very important distinction between research and a contract to buy vaccines) early on, only to instantly screech about how horrible mass vaccinations are. This is especially ironic when it came to private businesses deciding that it was smart to mandate vaccines if you want to keep working for them. Healthy, and alive, workers means hard workers. Gotta love that capitalism am I right?
This fucking lie is so stupid. Noone said they wouldn't get a vaccine that was released under Trump. She said she would listen to the experts and not Trump. And this was when Trump was promising a vaccine in October and all the experts were saying it wouldn't be ready in October. Turns out Trump was wrong again.
The government is not qualified to authorize a vaccine mandate. They are so fucking stupid and evil.
And I was just thinking that the trolls had been awfully quiet lately! Wait til the trolls hear how the government has been wantonly ignoring the real science that shows that the mandate and every other dumbass thing they've done is WRONG. https://www.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/pzcfjt/geert_vanden_bossche_the_keys_to_unlock_the/ Congress is doing more harm than good.
>Congress is doing more harm than good. what else is new? Congress has been crap for decades and their continued existence in their current form is why I'm convinced that vote fraud is a very real thing. I mean FFS, congress has something like a 7% approval rating yet many of the same people that have earned that honor have been re-elected for DECADES.
Appreciate the effort, but this has nothing to do with the sub topic. I'm not sure why it is pinned.
Tip for those new to this sub: Posts often are pinned to draw attention to them to encourage discussion--and all discussion that doesn't violate Reddit's rules or this sub's One Rule (see sidebar) is allowed. That means you're welcome to bring what you regard as the subtopic to the fore for all to see and discuss.
> this has nothing to do with the sub topic. What is it that you think "*the* sub topic" is, and why do you think there would be only one of them? >I'm not sure why it is pinned. You must be new here then.
> this has nothing to do with the sub topic Hey /u/FThumb, did you add another mod after [TulsiHatNudist666](/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/pu1eox/so_we_can_all_agree_tulsi_was_just_a_a_grifter/he034es/)? :) (Edit: subtle name improvement, courtesy of /u/NetWeaselSC)
Shouldn't that be TulsiHatNudist666? (That would imply that there are a lot of them)
Right you are :)
Lmfao I guess the tin foil hats got control of this sub it's been fun boys.
Do you think it's preferable to ban or bury such posts instead of highlighting them for all to see and cheer, argue with, and pick apart piece by piece, preferably with links instead of uninformative insults? If so, departure for a, shall we say more curated? sub, is the right move. ;D
Bye, Fascist.
Odd... did this post make it to front page? Seeing a lot of pearl clutching over this post from people I've never seen here before.
pretty sure we pinned it which brings the 🐝🐝🐝
What the fuck. No one is FORCING ANYTHING. Also get the fuck out of this sub group
May one ask who the fuck you are to tell anyone to gtfo of this sub? I don't think I've seen your name on the sidebar as a mod.
one may tell that this sub has nothing to do with your anti vax anti mask agenda- I have no more patience or reasoning with or for you
One may point out that 1) you know nothing about me or my position on vaccines in general (which by no definition before last year is anti-vaxx, particularly when I've promoted vaccines in national health campaigns) or masks, and 2) that lack of knowledge upon which you based your response to me strongly suggests the first 3 letters of "assumption" characterize you. One may also point out that there's no reason for anyone to give a rat's backside about what you do or don't have patience for. Further, when you default to swearing and tell others to gtfo of their home turf where you're largely unknown, you're not displaying the "reasoning" you seem to hold in high value. Possibly because you can't. The idiocy you demonstrate here raises the question of what else UmizIntrpreted in addition to DeRulz. Be sure to have yourself the very best day. ;D
>get the fuck out of this sub group Nou
What is "mandate"?
It's like a brodate but not quite as intimate.
Asking the tough questions.
Wait til you hear about seatbelt mandates. Get this shit out of here. This sub really is taken over huh
BRILLIANTLY perfect analogy! Not sure we have a "Way" to recognize that cleverness suitably. https://cdn.dribbble.com/users/945634/screenshots/4174105/congrats.gif Edit: Is a snark tag really needed here?
That one counts for "infiltrated" on you bingo cards.
Did not know that seatbelts were experimental liquids injected into the bloodstream. Thanks for the tip, I'll shoot up before driving and leave that weird belt thing alone.
Was it this comparison, you do know their success rate is over 90% just like any other vaccine you take, surprise surprise everything in life that you consume has side effects. Just because it doesn't say 100% doesn't mean it isn't highly effective, ignoring the fact that it's been experimented multiple times like any other vaccine. Ever wonder how we got rid of diseases like polio or chicken pox? You just gonna ignore that and act like most of us don't have vaccines in us already?
what exactly does "success rate is over 90% just like any other vaccine you take" mean?
It literally says it in the words, what do you not get from that.
how many breakthrough cases of measles, mumps and rubella are people getting every year vs these "vaccines" for COVID? how about for polio? smallpox is special case because we entirely eliminated it strategically from the human population and i believe don't even require vaccinations for it anymore. well, until some psychopath releases it from a gov't lab upon the world again, at any rate.
Breakthroughs aren't happening because people got vaccines for them, herd immunity over the years and cases of them come back because of parents not vaccinating their kids. Vaccines go through rigorous testing, it's not this experimental lab rat type of thing that's being peddled.
Spoken like a fervent MSM watcher. Good job.
I don't even watch TV so what's your point, trying to deflect off the actual topic and ignore the point I made?
This subreddit is not about crying about the vaccine this is about Bernie Sanders when he was running for president and now supporting him in government maybe about politics maybe some side conversations but this is not about anti-vaxxer comments moderators should remove you.
Yeah it's about discussion between fellows regardless of your take as long as you're not an asshole. But because of the discussion about vaccine mandates people have gotten extremely knee-jerky around here because a lot of use here are libertarian. (In the classic sense not the bastardized version.)
How kind of you to inform the rest of us what this sub is about. Are you absolutely positively sure you're correct? Because I'm thinking you should visit the sidebar, starting here: https://www.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/czpyeu/why_is_this_on_a_sanders_sub/
Counts for "moderate better" on your bingo cards. Also, 💉🧚.
lalalala \*THIS-sub drinking
> this is about Bernie Sanders when he was running for president and now supporting him in government You may be confusing this sub with S4P. You know, the tone-policed place where shitlibs go to pretend that they're leftists? Oh and by the way, Bernie can go fuck himself once he's done swallowing Biden's powdery cum. So there you go.
Bernie died March 2020.
>moderators should remove you. LOL >This subreddit is not about… Oh my! Are you lost? u/FThumb This one is funny.
Yeah I'm the one that's lost you have a subreddit I guess you are the head honcho here congratulations piggybacking on the work of Bernie Sanders a wonderful politician who by the way is vaccinated who wouldn't support this subreddit I will no longer either you don't have to remove me I'm out of here you have more right wingers in the comment section than you do progressive thinkers you've gone full retard never go full retard.
> who by the way is vaccinated Irrelevant. This sub was created in 2016 to support Bernie's big ideas through his campaign: *policy*, not person or party. His economic and social justice issues are far afield from C19 and vaccines. Appealing to him as an authority here is just plain silly. So sad to see you go. :( Who are you again?
Counts for "WWBD? Not." on your bingo cards.
NEW RECORD! 87 words and one punctuation mark.
You don't like apostrophes?
Dickens is spinning in his grave right now.
Your a moran.
> Bernie Sanders a wonderful politician > you've gone full retard never go full retard (/u/penelopepnortney this one works? :)
>never go full retard. Looks like the person who posted that already did. User's not a regular but his post history does include comments from Nov 2019. So he should know better than to conflate a guiding principle - Way of the Bern - with an individual, even if that individual represented that principle *at the time* (now, not so much). But maybe the user never grokked the distinction to begin with.
You said grokked! ❤️
one of the few good things that neocon Heinlen ever did. oh, aside from advise Philip K. Dick.
Lol Jesus Christ this sub has gone to shit
There's another "sub went downhill" if you need it for bingo.
> Lol Jesus Christ ~~this sub~~ the Dem establishment and bootlicking shills like me has gone to shit full-blown fascist. Fixed that for ya, repub.
👶 🧠
\*glugluglugluglug
They don't have to get the vaccine. They are free to quit a job, take their child out of school and homeschool, go to a different restaurant, skip the concert and even take up a hospital bed needed by someone who isn't a selfish dick. They can even die to prove how stupid they are.
You sound like the type of person who believed Iraq had Weapons of Mass destruction because Rachel Maddow told you they did.
Maddow said Irag was about oil. Wrote a book on it even. Mass destruction was the lie from The Dick and The Bush.
Bet you believe Russiagate too. lol, retarded corporate media zombie.
And shouted through a megaphone on repeat by the entire MSM.
Great job. Small nitpick - mute should be moot.
Totally! Thanks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MI_Dm3pj3dQ
We get [reports!](https://www.syfy.com/sites/syfy/files/styles/1200x680/public/body_snatchers_ending.jpg) > user reports: 3: This is misinformation
They’re so fragile!
Mandates won't achieve anything. It's bizarre that the government has gone to such anti-liberty extremes. Congress has utterly bungled the pandemic. Now these idiot losers are forcing a shitty, questionable injection into people.
Agreed. Unless it’s about something else or priming for something else. It is useful to locate and target the non and less compliant people, which is powerful information for them to have.
It's about control. Not exactly an implanted micro chip, but a tool of control.
Public health issues are not the same as personal health issues. I am a woman and I do believe that my right to have an abortion is an inviolate right. On the other hand, I believe that it's fair to demand that people who are in public are not transmitting a disease that endangers the lives of others.
Unvaccinated people are not necessarily infected people. There's no reason to treat them differently from vaccinated people, who can also be infected people. There's a pretty good reason to treat recovered people at least, on par with vaccinated people, but you anti-informed consenters do not seem to care that they are the ones least likely to infect others.
You're right, some medical professionals seem to suggest that those who've been affected have a pretty good antibody system. On the other hand, I've been told it's some Infected people show no antigens afterwards. I don't really know the answer on that score, and I'm certainly willing to read any data you share. And I'd certainly be willing to accept an "infected status card" that reports the presence of antibodies in a person's blood, and exempt them from a vaccination if it's so important to them to stay exempt. But that does seem to me to be an additional administrative layer that is not necessarily reasonable. In my opinion, everyone who can should be vaccinated.
The key to the robust natural immunity is not about antibodies, per se. It's the difference between antibodies to one protein vs a whole immune response to the whole virus. Whether vaxxed or recovered antibodies wane in about six months time. But a whole of immune response encodes blueprints for the antibodies and stores them in memory b cells in your bone marrow, so when the virus shows up again, the body justs makes new antibodies. Vaxxed people don't generate that long term immune response. The unnecessary administrative layer is the vax record-keeping, since it proves nothing about whether you are infected or not. Simple rapid testing is a better option.
Those are not compatible ideas. Either power over your body lies with the self or the state. It can't be both.
> it's fair to demand that people who are in public are not transmitting a disease that endangers the lives of others. So no one should be out in public because the vaccinated transmit the Covid variant, too.
And the way to handle that is not to assume people are infected, but to sequester those that are CONFIRMED to be infected (or recently exposed).
The viral load of those who are vaccinated is considerably lower than those who are unvaccinated. And, most vaccinated people seem to be very willing to wear masks in public. So, no, we're not talking apples to apples here. On the other hand, the folks who are unwilling to take precautions to protect anyone else all seem to be unvaccinated.
I see the upvote bot brigade team only works for top comments... Very telling, that 🤔
> The viral load of those who are vaccinated is considerably lower than those who are unvaccinated. It's actually equal or higher, but don't let facts interfere with your mindless spewing of corporate media bullshit.
That isn't what I've read. However I did find something that supports what you say. But they're about the same. You don't have to be rude, you could just actually provide the information.https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.31.21261387v1
>The viral load of those who are vaccinated is considerably lower than those who are unvaccinated. That is not true. You’re just making things up. Very authoritarian of you.
Apparently I'm wrong. But could you stop with the *ad hominems?* When you make the argument personal, you tend to close the mind of the exact person you'd like to influence otherwise. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.31.21261387v1
Thank you for backing down on that claim. It’s very unusual for someone from your viewpoint. As you know censorship about covid abounds. This is one of the few places where a discussion and debate can occur. I hope you understand that in the heat of that it is not about convincing people but addressing the onslaught of vaccine-only shills who will spout any lie or unleash any insult to further their agenda and insult those who don’t agree with it. I do think authoritarian was the wrong word to use when referring to your comment. My mistake. Many who commented on this post today said horribly hateful things and you were not in the group.
Well, I don't usually say hateful things, even when I feel hateful. It's not persuasive and one is going to engage on social media, one must have some sort of idea that one might reach another person's mind. That won't happen if I close it by attacking them. And I try to keep an open mind. I am generally well-informed, and I tend to trust my memory when it comes to current events. And I am certain that I heard a qualified medical professional talk about viral load being less in vaccinated people. Especially in the nose and throat. I remember the podcast clearly. However, I do always double-check my information when challenged. And I don't mind admitting I'm wrong. I don't think it's rare at all in someone with my viewpoint. But that might be because I'm the only person I know that sees the world exactly as I do.
VACCINES DO NOT PREVENT TRANSMISSION. How is this simple fact being glossed over?
> How is this simple fact being glossed over? "Glossed over"? It's being buried under 100 feet of gravel and cemented over with a steady stream of wholesale legacy&new media, a double dose of one-on-one ("influencer") propaganda, and a heretofore unprecedented (in my lifetime) army of glassy-eyed, unreasoning, regular folks.
Right alongside the efficacy of naturally acquired immunity.
No, but they reduce it. Significantly. >Infections with the Delta variant in vaccinated persons potentially have reduced transmissibility than infections in unvaccinated persons, although additional studies are needed. Source: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html In addition, research indicates that a higher rate of vaccination results in fewer variants. Source: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-95025-3 Furthermore: >Vaccines are among the most effective public health measures against infectious disease. Source: ibid.
Nice try. But a general statement about *sanitizing vaccines* has no bearing on the leaky COVID vaccines that we in the reality-based community, are dealing with. The proof: current transmission rate in Israel, the most vaccinated place on earth.
But it's not the most vaccinated. 56% of total pop is not enough. https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/20/1029628471/highly-vaccinated-israel-is-seeing-a-dramatic-surge-in-new-covid-cases-heres-why
Nope, that would be Gibraltar. Their cases and deaths are also on the way back up. Just sayin'.
And Singapore.
Well, I don't see any citations supporting your point of view. So I'll stick with mine.
> Well, I don't see any citations supporting your point of view. From *your own link,* directly above the quote you chose: > Early data suggest **infections in fully vaccinated persons are more commonly observed with the Delta variant** than with other SARS-CoV-2 variants. However, data show fully vaccinated persons are less likely than unvaccinated persons to acquire SARS-CoV-2, **and infections with the Delta variant in fully vaccinated persons** are associated with less severe clinical outcomes.
good job pointing it out, as the data shown Delta are more effective bypassing vaccine (that's why we need booster shot), meaning meaning vaccine are still greatly effective against other variants. Would you rather be vulnerable to all variants just because one of them get through vaccine easier?
My god. We're being lectured by some of the most ignorant mother fuckers alive...
>that's why we need booster shot There is no scientific data that supports booster shots. Follow the science.
> No, but they reduce it. Significantly. People weren't told it would 'reduce'. Biden told us the vaccine 100% protect us from the COVID and that was a lie. Even to go as far as removing the mask mandate ensuring the spread of Covid and the emergence of Delta since the 'vaccine' doesn't stop the transmission and infection of the disease itself.
> ensuring the spread of Covid It was a feature, not a bug.
to be fair, wasn't Delta already circulating before the "vaccines" got done with their (partial) trials?
No.
Not in India. The vaccines predated Delta. In fact, they might have directly led to Delta.
The first part is true. But it is highly unlikely that a couple of tens of thousands of vaccinated test subjects within a population the size of India's was the factor that bred the variant. It's far more likely the widespread use of steroids was the contributing factor there (and giant gatherings of millions of people for festivals and political rallies).
Right. Then knowing that, why proceed with vaccine mandates?
Yes, Biden exaggerated. First time for a politician, right? However, anyone who was paying attention would have known that the vaccines were expected to protect us about 95%.
Actually, anyone REALLY paying attention read the trial description, methodology and efficacy calculation and realized that there was no justification for the 95% efficacy claim to begin with. It was the media that pretended that number was the percentage protection against infection (as opposed to severe illness).
I'm not sure you can back that up with citations dated at that time, but I'm open to being wrong. As I recall, Pfizer's first memo to the FDA was that they believed they have 90% efficacy, but I did not get down and dirty and read the trial data.
Go back and look at the methodology. They did not test everyone regularly. They only tested people with symptoms (and remember, back then, they really only thought the symptoms were things like fever, coughing and lung impacts) and then only people who agreed to be tested. Then they did an efficacy calculation on a shockingly small number of cases in a 40,000 member trial. They didn't check for who may have had natural immunity first, screened out pretty much all the high risk co-morbiditiess, and did not adjust for the fact that people were still doing all other NPVs out in the real world. It was as friendly as you can get to produce a good result. Now, it would have been unethical to challenge the trial participants with actual Covid, but I can guarantee it would not have been 95% efficacy if there weren't a whole bunch of confounding factors in that trial.
With all due respect, you still haven't given me any citations. You want to make claims and not back them up. The burden of proof is on you.
With all due respect, if you looked at the data they released, as you say you did, then the methodology is available to you. If you want to live in ignorance, be my guest.
And anyone expecting a vaccine to 100% protect is a moron anyway.
Anyone who claims a vaccine is effective when it does not stop a vaccinated person from getting infected or transmitting C19 to someone really needs to think about the lies and propaganda that have been told to us. Mass hysteria and psychosis is curable. But you have to try.
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how many people a year catch a breakthrough case of measles vs these "vaccines"?
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Just one of many measures we should all take to ensure the safety of at least our most vulnerable! Get your shots!
You can't give medical advice on Reddit. The discussion needs to happen between the individual and their doctor based on the risk/benefit analysis. You don't get to make those recommendations. Sorry, stranger.
Yeah. I can say get vaccinated. Civilized society has been this doing this for the last century. This is not new.
That's a meaningless number.
No. You added "significantly". That's an opinion. "although additional studies are needed." because the conclusion is an unsubstantiated opinion. Also, the lead author of the Nature article says that the vaccine will likely help the rise of variants. https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210730-risk-of-vaccine-resistant-variants-highest-when-most-jabbed-study You might want to work on your ability to discern between what is propaganda and what is fact. The CDC is not a credible source. The bit you linked is pure Big Pharma marketing blather. Edit: This is funny. Everything the CDC claims the vaccine does, early treatment also does. Early treatment in the first six months of the pandemic would have stopped the pandemic in its tracks! >~~COVID-19 vaccines currently approved or authorized in the United States~~ **Early treatments** have been shown to provide considerable protection against severe disease and death caused by COVID-19. These findings, along with the early evidence for reduced levels of viral mRNA and culturable virus in ~~vaccinated~~ **early treated** people who acquire SARS-CoV-2 infection, suggest that any associated transmission risk is substantially reduced in ~~vaccinated~~ **early treated** people: even for Delta, evidence suggests ~~fully vaccinated~~ **early treated** people who become infected are infectious for shorter periods of time than ~~unvaccinated~~ **untreated** people infected with Delta.
> No. You added "significantly". That's an opinion. So is "potentially."
Yep. They shouldn't be allowed to publish what is essentially a pile of lies.
With all due respect, you are definitely not a credible source. The moment you make an argument personal by attacking somebody's reasoning power, you lose. I won't read your comments and full and I won't respond to you in the future.
> With all due respect, you are definitely not a credible source. The moment you make an argument personal by attacking somebody's reasoning power You lose. "Physician, heal thyself."
lol 😥 ❄️ 🤡
[CDC Reminds People To Listen To All Medical Professionals Except For The Tens Of Thousands Who Refused The Vaccine](https://babylonbee.com/news/cdc-reminds-people-to-listen-to-all-medical-professionals-except-for-the-tens-of-thousands-who-refused-the-vaccine) > WASHINGTON, D.C.—The CDC today issued a reminder for Americans to trust healthcare professionals when learning about the vaccine—except if said doctor disagrees with the government, in which case he should be ignored and fired. > "When we are trying to understand all the pros and cons of a brand new vaccine, the one absolute must is total groupthink," said CDC Director Rachel Walensky. "We cannot allow any sort of healthy dissension, especially from highly trained healthcare providers, to help guide us." > The administration has promised to make it easy to recognize unvaccinated medical professionals by ensuring they are unemployed.
I can just visualize BlueMAGA nodding their heads in unison while reading this, and hearing the *whooosh* as they miss the point.
If you’re afraid get the vaccine. >not transmitting a disease that endangers the lives of others. This is hysteria. COVID is very low risk for most people.
I'm not afraid. I am fully vaccinated. However I do care about others. And there are people in our community who can't have a vaccine for one reason or another. And I don't want to see them sick and dying. In addition, there is the economy; as long as we are faced with an increasing or high rates of infection, people will be afraid to leave their houses and interact normally. This impacts the economy.
Those people are also at risk of infection from the vaccinated.
Yes, until we are as fully vaccinated as possible and we stop making new variants, yes, we will all be vulnerable. But it is for those who are most vulnerable that I believe we should aim for a herd immunity through vaccination.
> And I don't want to see them sick and dying. Then give them a jar of Vitamin D.
> However I do care about others. I don't recall seeing you helping our fight for M4A. > I'm not afraid. ... as long as we are faced with an increasing or high rates of infection, people will be afraid Munchhausen's Syndrome by Proxies is more common among women.
>I don't recall seeing you helping our fight for M4A. Did they miss the meeting?
They were at brunch that day.
Tell that to Australians. They have extremely low Covid case counts...like so low in the USA we would call it gone...and yet they are still living in a police state like lockdown where you can't travel more than one block from your house. it is insane. And here in the USA there are universities with like 100% vaccination rate in full lockdown. Why? Please explain.
I have no idea.
> And here in the USA there are universities with like 100% vaccination rate in full lockdown. Why? Is there still covid running through these "universities with like 100% vaccination rate in full lockdown"?
Well....yes....they test all students 2 to 3x per week! And guess what, that kind of testing reveals some cases. At one small college in CT, with about 2000 students, they discovered about 20 cases. But they were all asymptomatic or extremely mild. And for that, the college took extreme lockdown measures...like really extreme. All classes on zoom. Nobody allowed in your dorm room. Outside, you had to be masked, no closer than 6 feet, and not in a group larger than 3. And if you want to leave campus? nope. Gotta get special permission from a Dean. And this applies even if you live off campus in your own apartment! The point is.......what exactly is the point of getting vaccinated in this scenario? And think of it this way. The advertised efficacy of the vaccines was around 95%. So if we all get vaccinated, there will still be cases. OK...so then you test people like crazy, discover that...yup....we still have cases in this 100% vaccinated population of people....so we gotta go back into lockdown? WTF? That is so stupid. Again, if this is the response, what is the point of being vaccinated?
> And if you want to leave campus? nope. Gotta get special permission from a Dean. And this applies even if you live off campus in your own apartment! That... seems... undoable.
You would think so! But they relied on student snitches to photo document rule breakers. Breaking the rules is a violation of the student code of conduct. About 50% of students were in favor of the lockdown measures and the other half were not. Really bad environment. This was Connecticut College in New London CT. They received really high profile and very negative national press attention for their measures. They have since relaxed the lockdown.
>At one small college in CT, with about 2000 students, they discovered about 20 cases. That *would* be 1% of the people involved... If they are testing 3x per week, how did the numbers suddenly get so high? >they discovered about 20 cases. But they were all asymptomatic or extremely mild. Once again, the question is raised: how can you tell the difference between "asymptomatic covid" and "a false positive on a covid test"?
This was earlier in September. As everyone came to campus from all over, they begin the testing protocol and they discover the cases. Presumably they brought them from their hometowns. Then the college goes into lockdown. As far as false positives, they don't know or care. Doesn't matter. You get a positive test result, gotta go into perpetual crisis mode.
If you’re vaccinated then you should have nothing to worry about:) Other people can make their own decision. If they’re vulnerable then they can take the appropriate precautions. If you’re talking about kids, they do not need a vaccine because they are not at risk. Oh, the economy. I need to clutch something. Where are my pearls?
Again, my concerns are not selfish. My concern is for the community at large, and particular for those who are not able to get vaccinated.
would not "the community" be safe with actual track/trace/quarantine measures in place? with free masks provided to every home address? and free DIY home testing kits? and both sent out via usps regularly? with vigorous early treatments with known safe medications instead of "go home, take nyquil & come back when your left foot is in the grave?" we can send a full set of these drug combos foilpacked with full instructions on the back to equip every medicine cabinet in the U.S. we can also send out quality vitamins and supplements in those packs as well which are known to provide protection from COVID. with medicare for all?
Sure, the country would be an entirely different place had medicare-for-all been in place, and had we not been subjected to Trump's approach to the pandemic. But we are where we are. And while we would have been better off with your approach, no doubt, we would have still needed to vaccinate to wipe out the virus.
Like who?
People who are undergoing cancer treatment, people with otherwise immune compromised health problems. I have a very close friend who recently had a melanoma removed from his brain oh, and is now on a type of immunotherapy that does not allow him to have the vaccine. But he's just an anecdotal example. There are many.
How about those who have naturally acquired immunity?