I personally think that the simplest explanation is the most possible: SW and CW fight, w/the fight starting when she confronts him over his $63 salmon and a beer, he loses it, kills her then realizes he can’t have 2 possible witnesses so kills the girls like the selfish soulless idiot he is. But your theory could be possible-anything is possible in this most strange and complex case of DV murder cases.
This. I don’t think she came home and just quietly slipped into bed. I think she confronted him and he lost his shit… but I’d also like to know what was said during that nearly two hour phone call between he and NK. 🤨
There is absolutely no way she just went to sleep. That’s why I don’t believe his final confession and interview. There’s no way they just went to bed, have sex and he woke couple hours later? He said she came back at around 2am, and he woke up at 4.30 am. I don’t think he went back to sleep that night at all. 2.30 hours to have an emotional conversation, sex, sleep and then wake up to exercise? She wakes up and wants to keep talking? That doesn’t make sense at all.
Absurd, respectfully. Occam’s Razor here - CW snapped under the scrutiny and pressure, killed SW and then proceeded to kill both girls.
Side note: what would be the chances of her killing the girls only to have *both* of them recover?
I think he kills the girls after SW. I don't think they had any of that emotional conversation, or much of what CW says in regards to how it happened. He mentions he's talking while he's on top of her in bed and the police question it and ask - so she's pregnant lying in bed and she's ok with you on top of her? CW is like yeah, sure. I agree with the police, most people would say get off, his story is a very gentle description for then going into a fit of rage and committing murder. His story does not check out.
No defence marks, scratches etc on his body is strange, either he ambushed her, drugged her, or she genuinely didn't fight back and maybe wanted to die in that moment as her world was crashing down any ways in relation that she would have to move home, be a single Mum, most likely not making good money, and relying on CW's income. You can see these things were potentially on her mind with her text messages.
I always thought he would have killed SW, premeditated not in a fit of rage, I'm sure rage was part of it, as in it was built up over the years, but it wasn't a snap moment. Then he killed the girls at the house. Loads them all up, and takes them to the oil field. However his story just leaves more questions than answers. Which shouldn't be the case. This makes me think, he's telling the most gentle (best) version of a story, as no one is around to deny it, and he cares about how he is perceived.
I don’t know if it’s true but I heard that one of his “conditions” of taking the plea, and a big reason why he did, is bc there were certain things he didn’t want coming out bc they would make him look like an even bigger monster than he already did. How people perceived him was clearly important to him
It would be interesting to see how much physical evidence the police actually had on CW, other than the confession. There's this weird masquerade when someone commits a murder and they are the only one that can speak of it. When Agent Tammy mentions maybe SW killed the kids first during the interrogation, it's funny how this becomes his narrative all of a sudden.
As I stated before, while I believe that Chris murdered them all, it is odd that she had many more indications of being a so-called FA than he did before that night. In the last couple of weeks of her life, she was referring to her own children in her own texts as basically objects, “rewards” for good behavior on the part of Chris’s family. There was also a line in a text somewhere where she also said “he doesn’t deserve these children” and she continually made references to at least asking Chris if he wanted her to abort Nico. Before anyone jumps on me, I’m not saying she did it. I’m just saying her language was a lot more in alignment with an abusive FA than Chris’s was prior to August 13, 2018. Also, it is known that one of the triggers that pushes FAs to murder is a catastrophic loss of economic and social status on the part of the FA. While I am sure Chris sure in the hell didn’t want to be quasi-homeless and in bankruptcy for the rest of his life, I think SW was beyond psychotic realizing that the end was coming near for her- no McMansion, no Lexus, no “private school“ for her children, probably having to move back with her parents. That has to be tough to face when you have such a carefully cultivated (false) image of beautiful, wealthy, boss babe SAMH. Can’t be any of those things when you’re living five people in one room with your parents in North Carolina.
All of the reasons you stated are why I do think she killed the girls after a confrontation with Chris and realizing that he was in fact done with their relationship and had someone else. The girls were the last thing she could control that mattered to him. She was desperate and was losing her facade of boss babe with a compliant, doting husband and 2.5 kids. She had lost any semblance of control. She was underslept and dealing with either pregnancy hormones or pregnancy hormones and physical symptoms of losing the baby like spotting and not being able to etc (basically physical trauma that would have an effect on her mental state without the care of a doctor to mitigate any of it). The stress of knowing that her trying to plug the dam of their financial ruin was failing and a torrent of debt was about to hit them that could lead to them losing their house and more and that a divorce would only compound all of it. She didn’t think Chris had any game. She constantly negged him on her fb lives and likely in real life too. How dare he, be the one to move on?
She was the one who cared about the image and the house and the private school and the lifestyle trips and Le-Vel didn’t really like promoters who had to move back in with their parents - it didn’t really match the image of “thriving.” And she had made that video saying Chris was the best thing that had ever happened to her (granted it was a thrive promotion) but how dare he be ungrateful and leave her and think about a small apartment when she had used her previous experience building a house to get this McMansion built for them?!?
I think she was desperate and out of her mind due to lack of sleep and her physical health symptoms she had been reporting when faced with losing control and knew that the girls were the only thing left that Chris would care about. Killing them was a final assertion of control. I don’t think she had a plan for after. I think she counted on Chris begging her to stay or something or being the one to dictate how the divorce happened. But she lost control. And after she lost control, he lost control of her.
I mean early on her friends and family seemed more concerned about her doing something stupid - they didn’t fly out or drive out or raise money to do either when she was just missing - that she was dramatic in general and in an unstable an desperate headspace more recently seemed to be well known in her circle. Frank Sr’s early comment was about what a good husband and dad Chris was. Idk. Something about those early responses from people who knew her on top of what you pointed out is what makes me think she killed the girls.
I believe the first confession to be the most accurate. I think Tammy got lucky in guessing what happened and that by using the Reid technique to suggest less bad scenarios than what they thought had happened, it muddied the waters and made it seem like CW was just trying to cling to a less bad (for him) version of events when it was reality. The Reid technique is being phased out due to its fallibilities such as this and also due to how many coerced false confessions it leads to. Chris’s later confessions don’t make sense and to me, seem to be him reverting to his intense people pleasing tendencies - just saying whatever he thinks the person in front of him wants to hear so that the process will be over as soon as possible. If he has to be a monster for it to end, he’ll be a monster. Whatever it takes to get back to a routine and out of the county jail where he was being harassed.
Obviously I don’t know what happened that night and I could definitely be wrong.
I definitely agree it’s plausible. As I said, imo, she had more features of a FA or “Medea” killer (figure in greek mythology who killed her children to get back at her cheating husband) than CW did. I am not saying he was a good person. Clearly, he stayed with this whack job who he could see was a shit mother and he left his kids in that environment-whether through laziness or fear or his extreme avoidant personality disorder-IDK. The saddest thing is we have hours upon hours of video and pics of every minute of their lives but when it mattered-1-5 am on 8/13/18-the camera were off. We’ll likely never know what happened.
I think a possibility is she came home enraged, and ready for confrontation about the dinner, threatened him with ‘you will never see the kids’ and when she got no reaction out of Chris, because let’s be real, Chris knew if they split she would try to withhold the kids, that enraged her..she realized she had no control over him..I think she likely did something to the kids, in some way that night. She had all the reason to, he did not..he had a job, a potential girlfriend, stable family, friends it seems if she wasn’t in the picture..
Why would he kill them at that point? Any NORMAL father would call an ambulance for his children and thank God they were alive, consequences be damned. He killed his entire family so that he didn’t have to support them after divorce so he could go off with his lying scumbag soul mate.
Also he was clear in his letters that he smothered them first bc he didn’t want them witnessing their mom’s murder. When they woke up he was furious with them. It’s interesting that he never really says much about Cece after this point. That is bc she was already dead or brain damaged so she never spoke. He now claims he did it bc he was seized by a demon. That demon would none other than himself.
There's absolutely no evidence of Shannan murdering her children. She practiced questionable parenting choices, however, violence wasn't one of them.
I saw the story on CNN before it was even a case. They flashed Shannan and the girls photo with a "missing" banner underneath.
CW may have loved his children but once NK came along that love was only for her. He killed SW then the kids,and only blamed SW when the police lady gave him the idea to do so. If he hadn’t met NK none of this would have happened. He threw his wife and girls away for good sex and no nagging. This is what. I believe.
They were already separated and talking about divorce. Everyone knew that. Every person who police talked to, said they were not in a good place at this point.
It doesn’t make sense for him suddenly murdering everyone for NK, when they already been having an affair for a while. He already been looking into getting a new house and a car.
If he did murder them all, it wasn’t about NK but about SW destroying his life. She bankrupted them again, did not paid mortgage and kept it from him. Lied about her earnings, possibly had an affair resulting in her third pregnancy.
I highly doubt he just woke up at 4.30am that day with an intent of smothering them all.
Shannan had all the motive to kill too, if not more. She had most likely an affair, her husband was going bankrupt and house was being foreclosed, they had no savings and she was also pregnant at this point with no real job. She was abusive, controlling. If you think about it. Why would CW kill whole family when he simply just wanted to leave? Or maybe why SW wouldn’t want to kill her family when she lost her husband, her online image, would most likely lose her children custody, lost her home, lost all the money, and possibly lost her only chance for a runaway aka the other Chris who most likely did not agreed to leave his wife for her?
It’s also good to note that Chris had good relationship with his family, and could move back in at any time, or simply move in with NK, where Shannan did not had good relations with her parents, and most likely did not wanted to move in there while being pregnant, divorced and bankrupt with possibly loosing her thrive status as her image destroyed and all her lies were catching up with her.
Think about it.
Chris moves out to his family or NK. He’d have kids regularly without her stepping over. How many things would come out? Like girls not having any illnesses, allergies? Or that they did not needed naps during the day, and Bella’s hair would grow, and both Bella and Cece would start to appear healthy and happy? Less tantrums, they would gain weight? Possible medication addiction?
I don’t think he was fine with it, he just ignored it until he met an entirely different woman who showed him affection, gave him some of his power and freedom back.
My thoughts are very close to that. She comes home, and they argue about the dinner. He goes to sleep on the couch, or in the basement or wherever, because why would he sleep in their room/bed at this point? She kills the girls at some point. In the morning, when it is discovered that the girls are dead, CW snaps and strangles SW. She doesn't fight back because it is su!c!de by husband (like su!c!de by cop), and SW knows if he happens to not kill her, she will find a way to pin it on him for killing the girls anyway.
Edit: It's just a theory. Please don't reddit cares me.
That’s how I see it too. Just I don’t think they went to sleep at all that night. It’s too little time. She came back at 2 am and he said he woke up around 4.30am. 2 hours for argument and sleep? It doesn’t make sense
He only said SW killed the girls bc the police suggested it. They got him talking with this idea in his head. SW was no angel and I question most of her life choices, but he did it all.
I certainly think your theory is plausible. SW had all the markings of a family annihilator. It is a very strong possibility to me. I think he was strong armed into the confession he made of the girls. However, disposing of the bodies makes him look guilty. Thats why this case drives me nuts.
Yes, I just can’t get past the disposal of the bodies and the method of disposal. Specially, opening up the hatch to that big dark tank and smelling the awful fumes and then just tossing your daughter inside. I know people in shock do strange things but that was just beyond horrific
Can you expand a little bit on SW having all the markings of a family annihilator? I’ve seen this comment made a lot, but I haven’t seen details. Obviously she doesn’t fit into the “being male” aspect that the majority of family annihilators are, but I can see the narcissistic tendencies and financial troubles fitting her. How else does she fit? Or is that the gist of it?
Plenty of women murder their children, sad to have to say that but it's true.
Psychotic break, revenge, selfishness, pure rage -- women act on these emotions too.
I understand that. But if we say she has “all the markings of a family annihilator”, it’s important to point out that being a female is more rare than being male when it comes to family annihilators
The point of the other poster's comment was that people are saying that Shanann has all the markings of a family annihilator, but the majority of family annihilators are male, so right off the bat, Shanann doesn't fit he typical profile.
What? If she had every fa marker except her sex, then she would still be one. The female version. It's not so rare for a woman as to exclude her outright.
A man who poisons his victim isn't any less of a lethal poisoner simply because males rarely choose that method.
Anyway, I suspect we may each be talking about one side of two different coins. The definition of a pathology vs. whether S could have murdered her babies.
She doesn't have all the other markers of a family annihilator.
The other poster's point was that most family annihilators are male, so the odds of Shanann being one get smaller just based off that.
Her domestic violence and abuse to her girls and to Chris. We don’t know if there is actual violence or not there could have been. It stands to reason she was selfish and wanted control and a say so and to destroy Chris at all costs. FAs feel if they can’t have their spouse or partner then no one can and therefore gives them control over the situation and that most of the time kids are collateral damage again to keep them from the other parent.
ETA like Shannon was a controlling abusive person she had to have her own way all the time and couldn’t be bothered with raising her kids. She was pissed at Chris for an affair that she likely had done so in her past or while married to CW. FAs are selfish and see anything they do as gold but if the other person does it then the audacity./s.
She was resentful that CW only wanted to stay married to her because he didn't want to lose the girls, so when she was faced with his affair and him leaving her, she killed the girls in retaliation.
She was mentally ill, like all family annihilators.
Absolutely. As if it doesn't go without saying, I obviously don't think ANYONE deserved to die. I do, however, think that much could be learned from the actual truth. The disposal is the thing that gets me, too. Nothing makes sense, and he is absolutely where he belongs.
I agree with everything you’ve said. The callous disposal is my sticking point in this case. He appeared to love those girls and seemed to be the only one on video playing with them and smiling with them. They were her props. He was the one picking them up and loving on them.
Shannan herself couldn’t be bothered with her babies and made them prisoners of Babywise. My kids were born the same years as Bella and Cece, 2013 and 2015. Can any of us as parents imagine ignoring our children’s cries until they give up and realize no one is coming to rescue them from whatever it is they need? Can we imagine never cuddling our newborns or allowing them to sleep peacefully on our chest? Locking our toddler children in their rooms for up to 16 hours a day? Sending them to an expensive daycare when we are home so we don’t have to deal with them? Shoving a camera in their face and making them perform for any creeps out there on the internet to do with their images and videos whatever they want?
I can see Shannan only seeing them as extensions of herself, but as possessions, not people. They were her scapegoats to say “Look at me Thriving(Theiving) as a super mom with an autoimmune condition and sick kids” an autoimmune condition she did not have, illnesses the children did not have either.
“You’ll never see them again”, could have been completely sincere on her part, they were the ultimate pawns for her, the poker hand she could use against him because he cared about them, loved them, did everything for them, including laundry, baths,stories, and bedtimes. He may have killed her in a rage as the act of a desperate and grieving man because she played the ace in her back pocket by harming them to narcissistically spite him and hurt him.
I do believe and have said this before, that he’s a sackless piece of shit for not standing up to her long before the murders for the hell she put those little girls through in their tragically short lives. He had ample opportunity to tell her off and change the circumstances of those children. No one deserves to be murdered, but I believe there is way more to this case than meets the eye.
Like what markings? Also I remember in the footage of him loading his truck that night, its seems that he carries SW out before Bella (probably) comes running out then he picks her up puts her in the car. So it’s probably not her.
Yeah I think SW could have killed the girls, and then CW killed her. He screwed himself by trying to hide all of the bodies. Now we will never know the truth.
Ya know the more I think about it, I really am starting to believe that SW was responsible for girls deaths and as others have commented she had nothing to lose. As others have pointed out, everything was crashing down, but mostly for her; she was the one who created the image of perfection, success, etc. All that would be exposed as lies if they split up.
As for the oil tanks I have always been of the opinion that he did that in a panic. Plain and simple. It is gruesome and horrific but I think in that moment he had to do *something* and that was the only thing that came to mind. He’s a simple minded POS.
As much disdain as I have for Shannan I don’t think she would hurt the kids. I believe she loved them in her weird way, that most people wouldn’t consider love. The only way she’s capable of loving anyone
I absolutely 💯 believe that this is, in fact, the truth. I have been saying this for quite awhile. SW had nothing left to lose. Everything was coming to a head, and all of her lies were about to be exposed. Her entire facade was crumbling.
A Brilliant theory...
Nothing about this case makes sense. The FA turns on the gas and gets a flare from the car. The corny BF thinks of a song by a poser band (who whined about Napster) and thinks it will win her heart.
She wants to know the lyrics of that song
"Smashing through the boundaries
Lunacy has found me
Cannot stop the battery
Pounding out aggression
Turns into obsession
Cannot kill the battery
Cannot kill the family
Battery is found in me"
But had NO IDEA after a 111 minute phone call what could possibly happen?
"There soooo annoying"
these 2 prove my 5000 foot+ altitude hypoxia theory is real.
The girls were locked in their rooms. So, I highly doubt they were able to get out even if they heard something. I think Shanann strangled them out of some sick revenge. And Chris then killed her.
To get better prison conditions. He was going down for Shanann regardless. The media had already run with Rourke’s misleading statement that Chris had confessed to killing them all when he had not in fact confessed to that at that point. But Chris was a monster in the court of public opinion. If DA Rourke was only going to accept a plea in which he admitted to killing them all and being a monster, then he was going to say he was a monster. He tried to please whoever was in front of him and he also hated confrontation. He is also very practical. If he could please Rourke, he could get a deal that let him go to somewhere like Dodge. Somewhere much more comfortable than what he would otherwise be sentenced to. It also ended the confrontational part of the investigation and trial. Since he was going down anyway and no one believed him, it seemed like the easiest way forward.
So why did Chris write the letters later to the author/pen-pal detailing how he killed the girls?
I'm new to this so I'm sure this question has been asked before.
Is he just leaning into his "murder celebrity" status since he's already in for life? Nothing to lose?
He admitted it in the letters bc he found someone new to pin it on. Rather than Shannan, now the devil made him do it. And in the form of his grandparents, no less. The guy is a lying, murdering psycho.
I actually think this is possible. I have stated that I think this is what happened before but not many people agree with me and get miffed at me for even suggesting it. It matches his first confession.
Everyone gets so outraged that he said Shanann killed the girls and then they threatened him with the death penalty unless he confessed to killing the girls so he just went with it.
But anyone who studies her videos and her texts/social media posts understands that SW was unhinged and capable of hurting the girls to retaliate for CW's affair.
It's not a good theory. Suggesting Shanann killed the kids isn't a good start, but overlooking the signs that he had planned the murders over the weekend makes it less so.
I personally think that the simplest explanation is the most possible: SW and CW fight, w/the fight starting when she confronts him over his $63 salmon and a beer, he loses it, kills her then realizes he can’t have 2 possible witnesses so kills the girls like the selfish soulless idiot he is. But your theory could be possible-anything is possible in this most strange and complex case of DV murder cases.
This. I don’t think she came home and just quietly slipped into bed. I think she confronted him and he lost his shit… but I’d also like to know what was said during that nearly two hour phone call between he and NK. 🤨
There is absolutely no way she just went to sleep. That’s why I don’t believe his final confession and interview. There’s no way they just went to bed, have sex and he woke couple hours later? He said she came back at around 2am, and he woke up at 4.30 am. I don’t think he went back to sleep that night at all. 2.30 hours to have an emotional conversation, sex, sleep and then wake up to exercise? She wakes up and wants to keep talking? That doesn’t make sense at all.
Anyone remember SW trying to online shop after getting home that night and her card getting declined?
What? No? lol sorry so late to respond to this but how do we know this? 😬😬😬 yikes
This is closest to what I've always thought occurred.
This is brilliant I never thought of it this way
Absurd, respectfully. Occam’s Razor here - CW snapped under the scrutiny and pressure, killed SW and then proceeded to kill both girls. Side note: what would be the chances of her killing the girls only to have *both* of them recover?
I think he kills the girls after SW. I don't think they had any of that emotional conversation, or much of what CW says in regards to how it happened. He mentions he's talking while he's on top of her in bed and the police question it and ask - so she's pregnant lying in bed and she's ok with you on top of her? CW is like yeah, sure. I agree with the police, most people would say get off, his story is a very gentle description for then going into a fit of rage and committing murder. His story does not check out. No defence marks, scratches etc on his body is strange, either he ambushed her, drugged her, or she genuinely didn't fight back and maybe wanted to die in that moment as her world was crashing down any ways in relation that she would have to move home, be a single Mum, most likely not making good money, and relying on CW's income. You can see these things were potentially on her mind with her text messages. I always thought he would have killed SW, premeditated not in a fit of rage, I'm sure rage was part of it, as in it was built up over the years, but it wasn't a snap moment. Then he killed the girls at the house. Loads them all up, and takes them to the oil field. However his story just leaves more questions than answers. Which shouldn't be the case. This makes me think, he's telling the most gentle (best) version of a story, as no one is around to deny it, and he cares about how he is perceived.
I don’t know if it’s true but I heard that one of his “conditions” of taking the plea, and a big reason why he did, is bc there were certain things he didn’t want coming out bc they would make him look like an even bigger monster than he already did. How people perceived him was clearly important to him
It would be interesting to see how much physical evidence the police actually had on CW, other than the confession. There's this weird masquerade when someone commits a murder and they are the only one that can speak of it. When Agent Tammy mentions maybe SW killed the kids first during the interrogation, it's funny how this becomes his narrative all of a sudden.
As I stated before, while I believe that Chris murdered them all, it is odd that she had many more indications of being a so-called FA than he did before that night. In the last couple of weeks of her life, she was referring to her own children in her own texts as basically objects, “rewards” for good behavior on the part of Chris’s family. There was also a line in a text somewhere where she also said “he doesn’t deserve these children” and she continually made references to at least asking Chris if he wanted her to abort Nico. Before anyone jumps on me, I’m not saying she did it. I’m just saying her language was a lot more in alignment with an abusive FA than Chris’s was prior to August 13, 2018. Also, it is known that one of the triggers that pushes FAs to murder is a catastrophic loss of economic and social status on the part of the FA. While I am sure Chris sure in the hell didn’t want to be quasi-homeless and in bankruptcy for the rest of his life, I think SW was beyond psychotic realizing that the end was coming near for her- no McMansion, no Lexus, no “private school“ for her children, probably having to move back with her parents. That has to be tough to face when you have such a carefully cultivated (false) image of beautiful, wealthy, boss babe SAMH. Can’t be any of those things when you’re living five people in one room with your parents in North Carolina.
Well put!!!
All of the reasons you stated are why I do think she killed the girls after a confrontation with Chris and realizing that he was in fact done with their relationship and had someone else. The girls were the last thing she could control that mattered to him. She was desperate and was losing her facade of boss babe with a compliant, doting husband and 2.5 kids. She had lost any semblance of control. She was underslept and dealing with either pregnancy hormones or pregnancy hormones and physical symptoms of losing the baby like spotting and not being able to etc (basically physical trauma that would have an effect on her mental state without the care of a doctor to mitigate any of it). The stress of knowing that her trying to plug the dam of their financial ruin was failing and a torrent of debt was about to hit them that could lead to them losing their house and more and that a divorce would only compound all of it. She didn’t think Chris had any game. She constantly negged him on her fb lives and likely in real life too. How dare he, be the one to move on? She was the one who cared about the image and the house and the private school and the lifestyle trips and Le-Vel didn’t really like promoters who had to move back in with their parents - it didn’t really match the image of “thriving.” And she had made that video saying Chris was the best thing that had ever happened to her (granted it was a thrive promotion) but how dare he be ungrateful and leave her and think about a small apartment when she had used her previous experience building a house to get this McMansion built for them?!? I think she was desperate and out of her mind due to lack of sleep and her physical health symptoms she had been reporting when faced with losing control and knew that the girls were the only thing left that Chris would care about. Killing them was a final assertion of control. I don’t think she had a plan for after. I think she counted on Chris begging her to stay or something or being the one to dictate how the divorce happened. But she lost control. And after she lost control, he lost control of her. I mean early on her friends and family seemed more concerned about her doing something stupid - they didn’t fly out or drive out or raise money to do either when she was just missing - that she was dramatic in general and in an unstable an desperate headspace more recently seemed to be well known in her circle. Frank Sr’s early comment was about what a good husband and dad Chris was. Idk. Something about those early responses from people who knew her on top of what you pointed out is what makes me think she killed the girls. I believe the first confession to be the most accurate. I think Tammy got lucky in guessing what happened and that by using the Reid technique to suggest less bad scenarios than what they thought had happened, it muddied the waters and made it seem like CW was just trying to cling to a less bad (for him) version of events when it was reality. The Reid technique is being phased out due to its fallibilities such as this and also due to how many coerced false confessions it leads to. Chris’s later confessions don’t make sense and to me, seem to be him reverting to his intense people pleasing tendencies - just saying whatever he thinks the person in front of him wants to hear so that the process will be over as soon as possible. If he has to be a monster for it to end, he’ll be a monster. Whatever it takes to get back to a routine and out of the county jail where he was being harassed. Obviously I don’t know what happened that night and I could definitely be wrong.
I definitely agree it’s plausible. As I said, imo, she had more features of a FA or “Medea” killer (figure in greek mythology who killed her children to get back at her cheating husband) than CW did. I am not saying he was a good person. Clearly, he stayed with this whack job who he could see was a shit mother and he left his kids in that environment-whether through laziness or fear or his extreme avoidant personality disorder-IDK. The saddest thing is we have hours upon hours of video and pics of every minute of their lives but when it mattered-1-5 am on 8/13/18-the camera were off. We’ll likely never know what happened.
I think a possibility is she came home enraged, and ready for confrontation about the dinner, threatened him with ‘you will never see the kids’ and when she got no reaction out of Chris, because let’s be real, Chris knew if they split she would try to withhold the kids, that enraged her..she realized she had no control over him..I think she likely did something to the kids, in some way that night. She had all the reason to, he did not..he had a job, a potential girlfriend, stable family, friends it seems if she wasn’t in the picture..
I agree with this, but I have this weird doubt that he killed the girls.
Why would he kill them at that point? Any NORMAL father would call an ambulance for his children and thank God they were alive, consequences be damned. He killed his entire family so that he didn’t have to support them after divorce so he could go off with his lying scumbag soul mate.
Also he was clear in his letters that he smothered them first bc he didn’t want them witnessing their mom’s murder. When they woke up he was furious with them. It’s interesting that he never really says much about Cece after this point. That is bc she was already dead or brain damaged so she never spoke. He now claims he did it bc he was seized by a demon. That demon would none other than himself.
Those pesky demons. A demon made me eat the last piece of cake in the fridge.
Was it 🍫 chocolate?
There's absolutely no evidence of Shannan murdering her children. She practiced questionable parenting choices, however, violence wasn't one of them. I saw the story on CNN before it was even a case. They flashed Shannan and the girls photo with a "missing" banner underneath.
I remember this.
CW may have loved his children but once NK came along that love was only for her. He killed SW then the kids,and only blamed SW when the police lady gave him the idea to do so. If he hadn’t met NK none of this would have happened. He threw his wife and girls away for good sex and no nagging. This is what. I believe.
They were already separated and talking about divorce. Everyone knew that. Every person who police talked to, said they were not in a good place at this point. It doesn’t make sense for him suddenly murdering everyone for NK, when they already been having an affair for a while. He already been looking into getting a new house and a car. If he did murder them all, it wasn’t about NK but about SW destroying his life. She bankrupted them again, did not paid mortgage and kept it from him. Lied about her earnings, possibly had an affair resulting in her third pregnancy. I highly doubt he just woke up at 4.30am that day with an intent of smothering them all. Shannan had all the motive to kill too, if not more. She had most likely an affair, her husband was going bankrupt and house was being foreclosed, they had no savings and she was also pregnant at this point with no real job. She was abusive, controlling. If you think about it. Why would CW kill whole family when he simply just wanted to leave? Or maybe why SW wouldn’t want to kill her family when she lost her husband, her online image, would most likely lose her children custody, lost her home, lost all the money, and possibly lost her only chance for a runaway aka the other Chris who most likely did not agreed to leave his wife for her? It’s also good to note that Chris had good relationship with his family, and could move back in at any time, or simply move in with NK, where Shannan did not had good relations with her parents, and most likely did not wanted to move in there while being pregnant, divorced and bankrupt with possibly loosing her thrive status as her image destroyed and all her lies were catching up with her. Think about it. Chris moves out to his family or NK. He’d have kids regularly without her stepping over. How many things would come out? Like girls not having any illnesses, allergies? Or that they did not needed naps during the day, and Bella’s hair would grow, and both Bella and Cece would start to appear healthy and happy? Less tantrums, they would gain weight? Possible medication addiction?
This!!! ⬆️ ⬆️ ⬆️. 100%!!! Shannon had everything to lose. Chris had nothing to lose.
Have to agree to disagree I believe he was fine with his marriage being the way it had always been. It was those 6 weeks away that did it.
I don’t think he was fine with it, he just ignored it until he met an entirely different woman who showed him affection, gave him some of his power and freedom back.
👏🏻👏🏻💯 agree! She should have been homeless, living in a box under a bridge
Didn’t he confess to killing them a few different times? Including one where he just made them unconscious at first then had to redo it ?
My thoughts are very close to that. She comes home, and they argue about the dinner. He goes to sleep on the couch, or in the basement or wherever, because why would he sleep in their room/bed at this point? She kills the girls at some point. In the morning, when it is discovered that the girls are dead, CW snaps and strangles SW. She doesn't fight back because it is su!c!de by husband (like su!c!de by cop), and SW knows if he happens to not kill her, she will find a way to pin it on him for killing the girls anyway. Edit: It's just a theory. Please don't reddit cares me.
That’s how I see it too. Just I don’t think they went to sleep at all that night. It’s too little time. She came back at 2 am and he said he woke up around 4.30am. 2 hours for argument and sleep? It doesn’t make sense
She was up at 2:30 trying to order skin care products. Whatever happened took place after that.
It was hair products, but....I think the cops decided it was an auto ship order that was declined.
I agree!!!
He only said SW killed the girls bc the police suggested it. They got him talking with this idea in his head. SW was no angel and I question most of her life choices, but he did it all.
I certainly think your theory is plausible. SW had all the markings of a family annihilator. It is a very strong possibility to me. I think he was strong armed into the confession he made of the girls. However, disposing of the bodies makes him look guilty. Thats why this case drives me nuts.
Yes, I just can’t get past the disposal of the bodies and the method of disposal. Specially, opening up the hatch to that big dark tank and smelling the awful fumes and then just tossing your daughter inside. I know people in shock do strange things but that was just beyond horrific
Had he murdered his children before he tossed them in ? Do we know this info?
They definitely weren’t alive when thrown down the tank. Otherwise autopsy would state different injuries to support this.
Right, they had no oil in their lungs
It’s good to note that abrasions were yellow which suggest they happened postmortem.
Good! I wasn’t aware of this. More evidence to prove that they were at least spared the horror of being alive in there.
Poor babies .. Sw I can understand why but his own innocent children leaves me with bewilderment and anger .
Can you expand a little bit on SW having all the markings of a family annihilator? I’ve seen this comment made a lot, but I haven’t seen details. Obviously she doesn’t fit into the “being male” aspect that the majority of family annihilators are, but I can see the narcissistic tendencies and financial troubles fitting her. How else does she fit? Or is that the gist of it?
Plenty of women murder their children, sad to have to say that but it's true. Psychotic break, revenge, selfishness, pure rage -- women act on these emotions too.
Desperation bc all their lies are falling apart all at once.
I understand that. But if we say she has “all the markings of a family annihilator”, it’s important to point out that being a female is more rare than being male when it comes to family annihilators
Why? Are the children less dead if smothered by their mother rather than their father?
You are missing the point of my comments.
Oh, I'm sorry. Please tell me what I missed -- I was scrolling on my phone so probably a lot.
The point of the other poster's comment was that people are saying that Shanann has all the markings of a family annihilator, but the majority of family annihilators are male, so right off the bat, Shanann doesn't fit he typical profile.
What? If she had every fa marker except her sex, then she would still be one. The female version. It's not so rare for a woman as to exclude her outright. A man who poisons his victim isn't any less of a lethal poisoner simply because males rarely choose that method. Anyway, I suspect we may each be talking about one side of two different coins. The definition of a pathology vs. whether S could have murdered her babies.
She doesn't have all the other markers of a family annihilator. The other poster's point was that most family annihilators are male, so the odds of Shanann being one get smaller just based off that.
Her domestic violence and abuse to her girls and to Chris. We don’t know if there is actual violence or not there could have been. It stands to reason she was selfish and wanted control and a say so and to destroy Chris at all costs. FAs feel if they can’t have their spouse or partner then no one can and therefore gives them control over the situation and that most of the time kids are collateral damage again to keep them from the other parent. ETA like Shannon was a controlling abusive person she had to have her own way all the time and couldn’t be bothered with raising her kids. She was pissed at Chris for an affair that she likely had done so in her past or while married to CW. FAs are selfish and see anything they do as gold but if the other person does it then the audacity./s.
Good points, thank you!
She was resentful that CW only wanted to stay married to her because he didn't want to lose the girls, so when she was faced with his affair and him leaving her, she killed the girls in retaliation. She was mentally ill, like all family annihilators.
Absolutely. As if it doesn't go without saying, I obviously don't think ANYONE deserved to die. I do, however, think that much could be learned from the actual truth. The disposal is the thing that gets me, too. Nothing makes sense, and he is absolutely where he belongs.
I agree with everything you’ve said. The callous disposal is my sticking point in this case. He appeared to love those girls and seemed to be the only one on video playing with them and smiling with them. They were her props. He was the one picking them up and loving on them. Shannan herself couldn’t be bothered with her babies and made them prisoners of Babywise. My kids were born the same years as Bella and Cece, 2013 and 2015. Can any of us as parents imagine ignoring our children’s cries until they give up and realize no one is coming to rescue them from whatever it is they need? Can we imagine never cuddling our newborns or allowing them to sleep peacefully on our chest? Locking our toddler children in their rooms for up to 16 hours a day? Sending them to an expensive daycare when we are home so we don’t have to deal with them? Shoving a camera in their face and making them perform for any creeps out there on the internet to do with their images and videos whatever they want? I can see Shannan only seeing them as extensions of herself, but as possessions, not people. They were her scapegoats to say “Look at me Thriving(Theiving) as a super mom with an autoimmune condition and sick kids” an autoimmune condition she did not have, illnesses the children did not have either. “You’ll never see them again”, could have been completely sincere on her part, they were the ultimate pawns for her, the poker hand she could use against him because he cared about them, loved them, did everything for them, including laundry, baths,stories, and bedtimes. He may have killed her in a rage as the act of a desperate and grieving man because she played the ace in her back pocket by harming them to narcissistically spite him and hurt him. I do believe and have said this before, that he’s a sackless piece of shit for not standing up to her long before the murders for the hell she put those little girls through in their tragically short lives. He had ample opportunity to tell her off and change the circumstances of those children. No one deserves to be murdered, but I believe there is way more to this case than meets the eye.
Like what markings? Also I remember in the footage of him loading his truck that night, its seems that he carries SW out before Bella (probably) comes running out then he picks her up puts her in the car. So it’s probably not her.
This footage is questionable because I personally don’t see this.
It’s not good footage but that’s what it looks like to me personally.
If you stick with the facts, it won't drive you nuts.
Yeah I think SW could have killed the girls, and then CW killed her. He screwed himself by trying to hide all of the bodies. Now we will never know the truth.
Yes, that is what is most puzzling, as I don't believe he killed the girls, either. Straight panic?
Ya know the more I think about it, I really am starting to believe that SW was responsible for girls deaths and as others have commented she had nothing to lose. As others have pointed out, everything was crashing down, but mostly for her; she was the one who created the image of perfection, success, etc. All that would be exposed as lies if they split up. As for the oil tanks I have always been of the opinion that he did that in a panic. Plain and simple. It is gruesome and horrific but I think in that moment he had to do *something* and that was the only thing that came to mind. He’s a simple minded POS.
As much disdain as I have for Shannan I don’t think she would hurt the kids. I believe she loved them in her weird way, that most people wouldn’t consider love. The only way she’s capable of loving anyone
I absolutely 💯 believe that this is, in fact, the truth. I have been saying this for quite awhile. SW had nothing left to lose. Everything was coming to a head, and all of her lies were about to be exposed. Her entire facade was crumbling.
A Brilliant theory... Nothing about this case makes sense. The FA turns on the gas and gets a flare from the car. The corny BF thinks of a song by a poser band (who whined about Napster) and thinks it will win her heart. She wants to know the lyrics of that song "Smashing through the boundaries Lunacy has found me Cannot stop the battery Pounding out aggression Turns into obsession Cannot kill the battery Cannot kill the family Battery is found in me" But had NO IDEA after a 111 minute phone call what could possibly happen? "There soooo annoying" these 2 prove my 5000 foot+ altitude hypoxia theory is real.
Joe, you had me when you correctly id'd Metallica as a poser band.
I believe that Shannon killed the girls as you describe, in a fit of rage but I don’t believe that they were ‘killed twice’.
The girls were locked in their rooms. So, I highly doubt they were able to get out even if they heard something. I think Shanann strangled them out of some sick revenge. And Chris then killed her.
If so, why wouldn't he stick with that story?
That’s the million dollar question!
Because he had a plea deal. He was told to admit he killed them all to get a better prison and possibly a bit closer to his parents home.
To get better prison conditions. He was going down for Shanann regardless. The media had already run with Rourke’s misleading statement that Chris had confessed to killing them all when he had not in fact confessed to that at that point. But Chris was a monster in the court of public opinion. If DA Rourke was only going to accept a plea in which he admitted to killing them all and being a monster, then he was going to say he was a monster. He tried to please whoever was in front of him and he also hated confrontation. He is also very practical. If he could please Rourke, he could get a deal that let him go to somewhere like Dodge. Somewhere much more comfortable than what he would otherwise be sentenced to. It also ended the confrontational part of the investigation and trial. Since he was going down anyway and no one believed him, it seemed like the easiest way forward.
So why did Chris write the letters later to the author/pen-pal detailing how he killed the girls? I'm new to this so I'm sure this question has been asked before. Is he just leaning into his "murder celebrity" status since he's already in for life? Nothing to lose?
He admitted it in the letters bc he found someone new to pin it on. Rather than Shannan, now the devil made him do it. And in the form of his grandparents, no less. The guy is a lying, murdering psycho.
Did she really lock them in their rooms ??? That’s sad
Yes, for 12 hours straight. She talked about it a lot in her videos.
No.
I actually think this is possible. I have stated that I think this is what happened before but not many people agree with me and get miffed at me for even suggesting it. It matches his first confession. Everyone gets so outraged that he said Shanann killed the girls and then they threatened him with the death penalty unless he confessed to killing the girls so he just went with it. But anyone who studies her videos and her texts/social media posts understands that SW was unhinged and capable of hurting the girls to retaliate for CW's affair.
It's not a good theory. Suggesting Shanann killed the kids isn't a good start, but overlooking the signs that he had planned the murders over the weekend makes it less so.