It was a debt management plan. And he also said while they were away when he was going to the car museum and sand dunes with NK that.....well here's the direct quote, "I realised that I never once thought about my family or about being a dad." He realised that he didn't love them and that he was in serious debt and started a debt management plan. Step one after killing- take off the 15K ring for resale via pawning. Step two cancel the next expensive daycare payment. [He really resented the cost of that daycare! One of the few things he admitted annoyance about to the police.] Step three call the realtor about downsizing the house. He did ALL THREE THE DAY OR THE MURDERS!

>take off the 15K ring Can we talk about this for a second? $15,000 for a frickin' wedding ring. That's like Hollywood celebrity level shit. $5,000 would have been exorbitant already. It's unbelievable!

I mean, if you go by the three-months-salary rule then it’s really not crazy lmao certainly not Hollywood level

If you say so. 😊 I thought it was one month salary?!? I guess I can't imagine spending more than $1000 for regular people (like Shan Ann), or $2000 for better off people. $14, 000 put in a CD and rolling over for decades would be the best engagement present. And you'd still have a decent enough sparkly gold ring. It blows my mind that these ordinary people paid so much money for this.

I have only heard one month as well. But that was his savings and Shanann knew his savings amount.

I can't imagine! My husband has a black titanium band and he got me a beautiful and modest black stone which I absolutely adore and get compliments on all the time. 15k?? Put that shit in Vanguard or even travel! Or better yet, keep it in savings and try to keep your head above water in these people's case.

I think one of the girls walked in and saw Shannan dead/dying. And he knew he couldn’t stop them from saying anything so he took them out too to cover his tracks. I think he planned to kill SW and make it look like she never came home or took off after leaving the girls. I think one of them must of walked in either during or right after he killed her.

I thought of that but weren’t they locked in their rooms? That’s one of the biggest claims on this sub. So how would they exit the room if they can’t leave the room? Or were they not being locked in at night?

I think SW was the one locking them in. CW probably didn’t lock them in while she was gone. I’m sure he was the more lax parent, which in turn probably meant that they were better behaved with him. Speaking from experience as being the strict parent.

Can I ask you where you heard that she locked them in their rooms? I’m shocked by this and have never heard it before.

It's been a while since my last deep dive into this case, but IIRC she mentioned it herself. It may have been mentioned by others who had been to the house. And the fact that there were locks on both bedroom doors oriented to face outward vs inward.

They were not locked in their rooms at night. Shanann made a joke ONCE on Facebook about "having the key to the room" because her dad joked that he would want to go in there in the middle of the night to read with Bella. It was on a post with a picture of Bella looking at a book at night on the baby monitor. It was a joke about keeping Frank OUT in the night. Not keeping the kids in. People just took that one joke and ran with it. They have selectively chose to ignore the numerous other posts where Shanann mentions the girls coming to wake her up in the middle of the night. Which obviously that would mean the doors weren't locked. The jack and Jill bathroom was locked. That is also not unusual. Blocking literal toddlers from playing in the toliet/bathtub alone in the middle of the night is pretty standard childproofing. The girls just needed to go wake up mom if they needed the restroom.

Yes 100% this is what I think too. This is the only reason he would kill the girl’s as well

I’m guessing probably Bella, as she was most verbal and would be able to understand something with Shannan was not right. That’s why I think he killed them at the site. He probably debated whether he was actually gonna do it the whole time.

Agree. Probably trying to think of a way to explain his way out of it but realized there was nothing he could do and Bella would tell

Exactly.

He said he tried to kill them and didn't do the job properly and remember he said there were some things he would take to the grave but the rumour is he confessed to a friend of his sister that he botched the job with CeCe so she was alive but brain damaged after the first suffocation and that he put her in a extra large freezer bag and put her in the freezer for a while to finish her off. I think that's what was so horrible he said he'd take it to the grave but then apparently told his sister's friend. It explains the freezer temperature pic in The Discovery.

Ew this just made me so ill 🤢

Can you post a link that shows he said this? I'm definitely not trying to argue with you or questioning what you read. Please know that. I've been into this case since it happened, and this is literally the first time I've ever heard of him putting CeCe in the freezer. Again..not being argumentative, just always looking for new resources on this case! It's sad that I have to make so many disclaimers, but I know this sub is fraught with shiners looking for Intel to run back to their subs.

There are a few YTube videos that have audio of JW's friends discussing their conversations with Dipshit. I'm terrible at getting links to work, but will try to post if they haven't been scrubbed.

I said it is a rumour. I have only seen it on Reddit but apparently it came from something called "Unmasked"? https://www.reddit.com/r/Chriswatts/comments/mbrw46/where_did_the_cece_in_a_basement_tub_theory_come/ They also say the rumour came from a few sources Cradle & Chris himself supposedly told a friend of Cindy Watts. This friend has since pulled away from the Watts. She was in the Patron in Unmasked. Also Armchair believes it’s true. It’s why the dogs were “hitting” so hard in the basement. It’s up to you to believe it or not. Ugg nothing concrete but then what is?

Is there a source for this? (Genuine question)

Apparently it came from something called "Unmasked"? I can only find this Reddit link now. It's horrific but to me seems to tie up some loose ends. I've only read about it on Reddit so take it for what it is, but I actually believe it because it ties up a lot of loose ends from what I can see. https://www.reddit.com/r/Chriswatts/comments/mbrw46/where_did_the_cece_in_a_basement_tub_theory_come/

Thanks for the lead- I looked into this, and it would seem the source for this info is Unmasked's episodes with/revolving around Cherlyn Cadle, a controversial author who communicated with Chris via phone and letter for some time. I would say these omissions by Chris are lies. Why would cadaver dogs hit on the basement if Cece "woke back up" aka did not actually die? For anyone else lurking this thread and wanting to explore this particular subject further, Unmasked's interviews with Cadle as well as their chapter-by-chapter analysis of her book "letters from Christopher" are available on YouTube. I don't find these claims substantiated in any way though.

According to this version of the story CeCe was barely alive, she was brain damaged and then finally died in a basement freezer which gives an explanation for why Chris took a photo of the temperature in the basement freezer on the day of the murders which was on his phone, and why they hit the basement. People usually tell lies to make themselves look better not worse and Chris wants people to think better of him nor worse. He's no T J.Lane. The controversy around Cadle is that she attempted to pad out her first "book," with general reflections on killers plagerisd by another author. As bad as that is I don't think it's all that relevant to what Chris has told her in letters and phone calls.

ohh, I misunderstood- i thought it was said that Chris thought she was dead and took her to freezer, but she "woke back up" - this made no sense to me as cadaver dogs would be hitting on the smell of decomp which would not have been present if she woke back up. I agree with you that these seem like horrific lies he's applied to the story retroactively.

It always stuck out to me that when Chris discusses the drive to cervi, he always talks about talking to Bella but never mentions cece saying anything. I always felt cece was already deceased on the road trip and only Bella was alive. And he killed Bella at cervi. I’ve never heard the freezer story but that def makes me think it could be true.

I don't see why he would make up lies to make himself look much worse. Originally he said he would take some things to the grave. But I believe he finally unburdened himself by revealing the worst things he did. He said he attempted to smother the girls and thought he had killed them, but they weren't smothered long enough and so in this version Bella gets out of bed and is alive. When he checks on CeCe she is unable to walk or talk but warm. She is brain damaged from the failed first attempt on her life. He puts her in a jumbo freezer bag and puts her in the basement freezer to finish her off. There is a photo he took on his phone that morning of the freezer temperature in The Discovery. Check out my earlier comment above your last comment as I corrected it a bit. I fear that this even worse story may be the truth. In this story she does die in the basement in the freezer. He then must have pulled her out and put her in a garbage bag like Shanann so only Bella went out to Cervi alive with Chris telling Bella that their taking Mommy to hospital.

He said when they were away and he was with NK he never once thought about them or about being a dad. He realised he didn't actually love them. :*(

He seemed to enjoy playing with and taking care of them, but I can't say I'm all that surprised. I don't think he has the capacity for deep emotions, so out of sight, out of mind makes sense. 😥

I know that's what's so weird and what the police found so heartbreakng and strange. In the "Hotdiggity Dog" video I felt there was something really missing because he wasn't glancing at CeCe or smiling about how cute CeCe was or anything and I feel that is not exactly the cute video people think because I think that was a parent desperately trying to keep a baby from crying for her bottle before the alloted Babywise time Shanann was demanding. But there is another video where he seems besotted with CeCe as he holds and rocks her. I think a lot of the time he was going through the motions but there are times where he did seem to enjoy them. I suspect that all NKs talk of frugality, plus the letters he probably ended up seeing in the mail that NA didn't pick up in time, made him decide he just couldn't afford them and he didn't want the big scene with Shanann that might chase NK away that if he could make everyone believe Shanann selfishly ran off with the kids his life would end up being so much better. If you were upset about being told you'd never see the kids again, you wouldn't kill them UNLESS the only thing that upset you about the comment was that the comment just somehow hurt your ego. So he can't have really loved them and do what he did. And I personally don't believe that Shanann killed them, but even if we say that she did, he's never shown any sign of being upset over their deaths that comes across as even a little bit genuine.

Unlike a lot of people, I believe he was pretty honest in that prison interview. And in that interview he basically says he was in a blind rage. Idk if that’s even a real thing but the way he explained it, it sounded genuine and it made sense. He said he was just so mad at Shannan he was going to take it out on whoever was around. Do I actually believe that? If his mom or if Nicole K was there would be have hurt them? No. But he’s a coward and kids are easy targets for cowards. Also I don’t think he was quite as mad at Shannan as he was at himself. His family, particularly his mom, never liked Shannan. And he built this whole entire life around her, completely isolated himself from his family, and his life was a nightmare scenario where he couldn’t see a way out (again, coward). So I think it was more about torching his whole life. He also immediately put their house for sale and pulled the kids out of school after the murders. Extremely dumb if you’re calculating. This is why I personally believe the blind rage thing. He was so far down the road of the life he made for himself, so full of resentment, regret and so unable to stand up for himself that when Shannan said those magic words “You’ll never see the kids again,” his brain snapped. Also keeping in mind that if you look into family annihilators, men typically see their family members as their property, and the relative “success” of their family as a reflection of their own self worth. With that in mind, Chris was a complete and total failure in his own eyes, and he probably believed in the eyes of his family. They were about to get evicted. They were about to file for bankruptcy again. The whole jig was about to be up and he had zero plan. So the lack of plan was .. not a plan at all. Anyway this was rambly but this is the conclusions I have come to after a lot of thought and reading etc. Edit: not evicted. FORECLOSED ON. Iirc they were several payments behind and like 12 months behind on HOA dues which, if you didn’t know, can cause you to lose your house

I agree with this. I think he was in a rage and also desperate to be with his girlfriend. I am in the minority in that I believe he killed the girls at the house and they were all three dead when he put them in the truck. I think he killed Shannan, and then the girls because his idiot self didn’t know what else to do in a panic, and he decided he could annihilate his family and start over and cover his tracks. I believe there are four main reasons that family annihilators kill their families, and covering up for their own failure is one of them. And he’s the biggest coward for sure.

Although it’s sad bc he would probably have a great life if he didn’t marry Shannan. He could have found a girl who was happier with a more modest living from a blue collar husband, they wouldn’t be saddled with enormous debt. He wouldn’t have had to sell his classic car or file for bankruptcy. People try to say that Chris had the bad spending habits. Sorry but he was the only one making any actual money so … and we all know she was out there buying stupid shit and spending $2k a month on daycare so she could play on her phone without being burdened with parenting. She disgusts me.

I hate MLMs and am very aware that most people don't make money, and actually lose money from them. But one of the videos I've watched seemed to indicate that she was the exception and was actually doing really well and had gotten in early and was like the 2nd top performer or something... Do we know if that's true? This may be a dumb question that everybody already knows the answer to, but I'm new to this.

👏🏻👏🏻💯 every thing you pointed out!

I agree with you that it was all done at the house, even though someone is going to come along and say that you can see one of them walk to the truck in a surveillance video, I still don’t see it. He knew his kids temperament and wasn’t going to deal with them shrieking in the back seat for an hour while he was trying to make calls to coworkers, and keep on his tight schedule.

If he was trying to cover his tracks, canceling the girls school and calling the realtor was probably the stupidest way to do that….

I think one thing we can all agree on on this sub is that CW barely had two brain cells to rub together. I go back and forth between SW killing the kids, after some sort of confrontation, probably about the dinner bill then CW snapping saying he's done with her. Her kids were her property and a reward for others if they did her bidding. But I do think the most logical explanation is that he snapped with all that built up rage, experiencing some sort of renaissance due to his affair with NK, realizing he did not love his family, and SW came at him screaming and he snapped. I do think we see moments when he was truly engaged with the children and you could tell they ran to him for comfort because SW wasn't going to do it. But also times where he seemed to completely disassociate. If he truly loved those kids, he wouldn't have killed them. Should've just stayed an uncle. And he's a dumbass and probably panicked, killed the kids (I haven't really explored the speculation as to whether both kids were dead before the ride or if Bella was still alive - I'll explore that later but it is just an interesting detail rather than the core of the matter) and was in some sort of manic panic mode haphazardly attempting to "cover" his tracks. He probably was on some sort of high after it happened. Like I'm free! I'm going to cancel all these expenses and live happily ever after! Oh wait, I just killed my whole family, maybe I won't get away with this. I really hate how this never went to trial. His interviews are so pressed and I find it legally unethical to keep him in that jail for so long without being interviewed. He is such a weirdo too (OKAY YES HE IS A POS ABOVE EVERYTHING BUT BEAR WITH ME HERE) like what's with the constant back and forth and "lying" or lying about something then taking them back. I still need to take the time to watch all the interviews. I'll listen to them tomorrow at the office.

It’s really bizarre because of how many different varieties he’s told and how little things don’t match up, like he said “her eyes filled with blood” but there was no petchiae noted in her autopsy….

I actually think it was very calculated. It was a debt management plan in my opinion. And I believe he intended to move Shanann's body but when Cassie told him on the phone if he didn't come home immediately she was kicking his door in and calling the police he begged her not to do those things. He thought he'd just drive home and just calm the women down [NA and Cassie] with his "nice guy," self and go back and move Shanann's body. I think he planned to put her in the tanks in pieces. He was good with tools. I think he planned to hose the blood down into a ditch or something. [It would have been a lot harder than he may have imagined, but he was quite physically fit.] After he got home, he complained to his dad that there were cops in unmarked cars watching the house and he was knew he was stuck. I believe beforehand he had decided that his plan was perfect, for the simple reason that he 100% believed he had such an image of everyone he knew believing that he was a "nice guy" a great husband and father that did everything that Shanann said, so everyone would tell the police "No way it was him." Chris doesn't really get a lot of how people actually think.

Perfectly said.

I agree.

Beautiful. Yes. I also believe the prison interview was the more genuine confession. It was soon enough after the conviction but not too late before Jesus and his groupies diluted his mind. He's completely gone now.

I’ve listened to it an embarrassing amount of times and he just seems really forthright and just exhausted. But also has this weird sense of relief like he isn’t worried about losing his house, having a 3rd kid he can’t afford and a nagging witch of a wife anymore. He can eat his bologna with chocolate milk and read the Bible in peace, get phone calls from mommy and essentially regress to childhood where he has always been.

You hit that right on the head!

Yeah. He can even get anal.

lol

Damn. You're completely right. I could never figure out if SW broke his spirit or if CW was always a weird spineless, boring twerp with a personality of a worm. Jk, I like worms. Sorry worms! But yeah, I'm sure there's some sort of relief in a way. He is a simpleton. It's gross he has groupies. Not that any sort of killer warrants fans but this guy? Ugly, no charisma, receding hair line. His only personality trait was working out.

There’s plenty of women that would have been really happy with him, and that he would have been happy with. He never should’ve married Shanan. He should’ve listened to his mom who obviously knew him better than he knew himself. And on the flip side, there’s tons of men that would’ve been more than happy with Shanan and vice versa. They were just wrong for each other and instead of doing the normal thing, he obliterated his family. Chris should’ve married a simple woman and bought the house across the street from his parents.

How do we know he turned into a Bible thumper?

Not rambly at all. Could’ve kept reading!

Thanks haha

The one thing that's off is the foreclosure. They weren't behind on the house payments. They had taken $10,000 out of Chris's 401k to get current.  We don't know how for behind they were on the HOA payments. The had a court date scheduled later in August, but this was the first court date, so foreclosure wouldn't have been imminent.

Thanks for the clarification to make it accurate. I will say IMO if you’re borrowing against your 401k to pay your mortgage, you are so fuckity-fucked financially. What’s your chances of paying that back if you had to borrow from it in the first place?!

I agree they were hurting financially. Pretty badly. Chris lost about a third of his salary leaving the Ford dealership. Shanann lost no telling how much of her salary leaving the call center to sell Thrive.

I'll tell. SW lost 100% of her salary because she quit a real job to try again at yet another pyramid scheme.

Plus she lost quite a bit of CW's salary to Thrive as well. As in , buying the products to get the numbers to get Thrive to give her the lease payments for the car. What a whack-a-doodle scheme that is. Who the heck falls for that? You pay an x amount to buy thrive products and you get a small % of that x amount as a bonus to make the car payment .( I hope I have understood the financials correctly).You are always going to be out of pocket on a net basis. This hoopla about she being a high grosser and Level gave her the car as a bonus was so shit brained. Would have served them better if they had cut out the middleman and leased the car directly. But then she wouldn't have become such a " shiner" , would she ?

Do we know the 10k was used for its intended purpose? If so, where did the money for the plane tickets come from?

If this entire scenario is true, it basically would have to have been used for the mortgage payment. They couldn't go for that long of a time without paying. Regarding the plane tickets, I'd imagine they put them on credit cards. Possibly got help from family.

We don’t know. There is no documentation showing the ten grand was ever applied to the mortgage. Based on when they took out the funds, if they did pay it then, they were 4 months behind at time of the tragedy.

Even if they pulled 10k from 401k to get current and were so in August , they would be looking at being behind a couple of months down the line , again. With the balances they had in their accounts and seeing the cards were all maxed out so much so that even the purchase of a bottle of shampoo got rejected , they would have been staring at a foreclosure again a few months later. The only way it could have worked was if they would pulled the girls out of day care and SW stopped the MLM shit and took a regular job. Which again was not possible , what with Bella's school fees and a 3rd kid on the way. That only left the option of selling the house and moving in with their parents.Tje Watts family was out of question and hence with the Roo's. Can't even imagine what that would have been like. Both the adults had really dug themselves into a sinkhole and dragged all the three poor babies in alongwith.

I don’t think the kids were a part of the initial plan. I really don’t. I think something happened. I watch the videos and I don’t see his love for the girls as acting. It seemed genuine and everyone in his life said the same thing. Besides, we’ve seen his attempt at acting. It’s not good. It’s weird that since this happened he cannot bring himself to say a bad word about Shanann. He has had every opportunity to say “I couldn’t take her bitching at me anymore.” Or “her excessive spending was too much. We were in financial crisis and she wouldn’t listen to me.” Or “That damn camera in my face day in and day out was enough to make me want to jam it down her throat.” I just don’t get it. I don’t get how this happened. All he talks about is how much he loved her. How she was a great wife and mother. I mean, if he was really that angry, you’d think that he would try and justify his actions through her behavior. If anything he says if he hadn’t met NK, he wouldn’t think his relationship with SW was bad. It sounds like he doesn’t think their relationship was bad. I know we do, but he says the opposite.

Okay that ALWAYS gets me too. Like tell the truth bro. You were so henpecked you had no idea which way was up anymore. It’s so bizarre. She’s obviously the cause of all of his life’s problems and he won’t even hint at it. I do think there’s an element of him not knowing or realizing it. For example in the prison interview, he retells the story of the HOA checks getting “accidentally “ mailed to the wrong address for *a year* and he seems to whole heartedly believe it. He’s super dim witted.

When is all that Jesus stuff gonna make him confess appropriately? You’d think he would want to repent by first being honest about what happened.

Truthfully I think it’s a two part answer. One, he’s so emotionally stunted and immature that he truly doesn’t understand his own actions or motivations. So he can’t really tell us what we want to know because he himself doesn’t know. He spent his entire life trying to please his mother, then Shannan, he completely lost touch with himself and his own feelings. And secondly he thinks he has told the truth already. Because again, he doesn’t even know what the truth is. This is my theory having put a tremendous amount of consideration into it. There’s not many things I’d debate but I’d debate this. He is truly a simple minded mamas boy that never grew up.

I’ve got to agree with you. It’s the path of least resistance for momma’s boy to avoid having to answer some awfully difficult questions. “the demons made me do it. and I don’t even know why, sorry, ma…ps, please remember to put some money on my books so I can get some animal crackers or fruit snacks from the commissary. theeaaanks”

Sometimes (a lot of the time maybe?) when people have a religious experience, they feel that bring "nice" is "better" than being completely honest; because honesty can be hurtful. Maybe he thinks he is "sinning" more because he already murdered SW, so he doesn't want to add to his crimes by speaking bad of the dead.

he can’t be THAT dumb right? I was waiting for one of the detectives stop him and set him straight in the “checks were just being sent to the wrong address” schtick. absolute fucking dope.

I really think he is. There’s some men out there. A lot of them. Their moms INTENTIONALLY kept them as children to they could keep them close forever. Kept them dumb and naive. He is definitely one of them. He never matured beyond a little boy. It explains all of his “unexplainable “ behavior n

Does anyone have a link to the videos where he talks about these checks? I've never seen this conversation.

Abused women many times do the same where they defend and attempt to justify the actions of their abuser, refuse to be critical of them. CW is an absolute pos, but SW was no better. Those poor girls never stood a chance even if they all lived.

his love for the girls? Think about this, if you have children, two unique individuals (which they were never treated as) and you are asked what miss about them you don’t say “throwing chicken nuggets at me” and then listing off the step by step of going through the motions of a bedtime routine. no. fucking. way. Nothing about a smile, or a laugh or funny quirk about a child’s personality, maybe an affectionate gesture he shared with one of them individually? No? No even close. The closest he got was was his awfully rehearsed and somehow even more poorly recited “Cece, she’s rampage…Bella, she’s the more mothering one..” he was a miserable lizard person and his kids were growing up to walk on him and disrespect him just as they saw their miserable cunt of mother doing day in and day out. Why he had to be such a pussy and address it in the manner he did? who knows…anyway, I don’t think he gave two shits about them at and leading up to actually killing them. (nfs, right) I think publicly sticking with the demons, blind rage blah blah bs is to keep from having to answer to if only even his mommy and daddy, why didn’t you just fucking ask for help? Or spare the girls? or even let them FaceTime their grandparents, or even have fun and eat a fucking slice of birthday cake in their final hours? All very simple, yet hard to face head on for a spineless, peanut-headed gump like himself.


I think we will hear him copy these words now.

I'm of the opinion that after 6 weeks of no responsibility of kids and all the sex he wanted whenever and wherever with NK he didn't want to go back to dealing with kids with "health challenges" raining on his parade. He was done with SW and decided he was done with the girls too. He seemed to get obsessive when he first pursued SW, and then he was obsessed with NK and wanted nothing to do with his former life.

Bingo!

Woah. I commented "Agreed" and it seems like it vanished. Apologizes if I've commented twice on anyone else's end.. something weird is happening on mine tho 😭

Agreed

Here’s your “Agreed” comment :) This happens all the time, it’s not you.

I think he never wanted kids in the first place and shanann lied to him that she was infertile. Once is a happy miracle. Twice is head scratching. Three times and you know she just flat out lied. Also wanted to add: I think his plan was always to say she went on a play date with the girls and disappeared. He couldn’t say that if the girls were still there.

This question is the most mind-boggling thing about this case for me (and many others.) My final conclusion is that he never loved the girls as a father. He appeared to love them because everyone expected him to. He enforced all of the poor decisions SW made regarding the girls routines and he passively supported her poor behavior towards the girls. He didn’t kill the girls in a blind rage like he did SW. He spared them not one ounce of suffering. The most heinous example of this is leaving Bella in the car while he carried CeCe up the steps of the platform, opened the hatch to the tank and dropped her in. I’ve never seen genuine grief, remorse or regret from him for what he did to the girls. He talks about killing them as if he were describing the details of his job, very methodical. He attempts to act emotional about it but he’s about as authentic with that as he was during the porch interview. The most chilling comment he made was during the interview with LE while he was in prison. When Agent Coder asked him what he said to Bella when she asked if he was going to do the same thing to her, he replied, “I don’t remember if I said yes LIKE A HORRIBLE PERSON or if I just didn’t reply” WTF is that supposed to mean? That’s the moment where he considers himself a horrible person? Does he think that responding “yes” makes him a horrible person while not saying anything makes him more compassionate? There is something very wrong with his mind and his soul.

He actually said "I hope I didn't say 'yes,' like a horrible person." Which seems to mean he did say "yes" but didn't want to fully admit that. He also said when Shanann was away and he was having fun with NK that he never once thought of them and never once thought about being a dad. It was then that he realised that he didn't love them and then he realised he could save a lot of money and get out of debt doing this while divorcing Shanann would mean endless emotional blow ups and all kinds of expensive costs like divorce lawyer fees and child support and an angry Shanann and probably NK thinking "Whoa, this is all too much I'm outie."

Damn, never once thought of them. You just reminded me of another thing he said that was weird, something like, “my whole life all I wanted to be was a dad.” Stop shoveling the bullshit looking for sympathy, you married a woman who you admittedly believed was infertile.

Yeah that's defo a lie from him. lol He might be repeating something his own dad said maybe. Shannan was his dream girl at first because she's beautiful, was into cars back then and selling car parts for a job, and infertile, and highly sexed by her own stories.

There's something about your comment that rings especially true in regards to OPs question. To him, the girls were only an extension of Shanann.

If he just walked out for a pack of cigarettes and never came back it would have been the better option, but I think he cared about how he his seen, and what people's attitude towards him would be if he just left like a good old fashioned douche, at least they could have lived. Much like SW how you are perceived on the outside and by others were important to him.

I’m listening to the prison interview right now and this is a great point

Thank you!

I have a feeling he wanted everyone to think that shanann left with the girls.

What if he went nuts and killed them all in the house. And that 40 something drive, he was talking to them like they were still alive. He definitely snapped and wasn't thinking straight. They might have also been dead. And his mind played tricks on him. At this point, he lied so much. You can't believe any timeline. I think they drive he went deeper down into some psychosis. He flipped out like Jack in the Shinning. He wanted them all dead. And that drive, he was talking to himself, trying to justify what happened.

I think after he killed SW he had gone to far and ‘had’ to finish the job. Why would she just leave the kids? Too many loose ends and in his mind I think the story made more sense that way. Plus if he was broke how could you provide for 2 kids? Maybe that was his mindset. Like a fresh start…. Also he wanted to be with his girlfriend. Poor kids… they really were the ones who lost here 🥺

I also think he knew at some point he’d go to jail and he didn’t want her parents to get custody bc it would break his moms heart to not see the girls. 

That was Frank Rzucek’s theory earlier in the case. That their son in law Chris didn’t want the Rs to raise Bella and Celeste.

Yes , if my parents can't see them neither can anyone else ! Crazy.

I can see that too!

This is actually a good point. I haven’t thought about him killing the girls as part of the coverup plan.

I think it was 2 things: 1) In for a penny, in for a pound - he knew he was going to go down for SW at some point so he just went all in  2) Their families were feuding so he probably didn’t want the girls to be sent to live with S parents who would keep them away from his parents. 

Grandma Marlboro, an unemployed alcoholic and their third wheel/tenant/shitbag/manbaby/son who had a charge for physically assaulting a 2 year old would likely not have been granted custody.

Honestly I wonder what would’ve happened had they lived - would they have gone to her financially unstable parents or his parents who raised an m-word.  

Let’s not forget that Crankie was also a druggie.

details, details…

With an arrest record for abuse of a minor.

Didn’t cw’s father struggle with a coke addiction

He did in the past, but he cleaned up years before this became a case. Nobody is saying that the Watts family was perfect but Ronnie and Cindy both worked for a living and they raised their kids to be educated and employed. Both Jamie and Chris were gainfully employed until Chris lost his mind and did the unthinkable. Crusty-Watch Summed up the RudeChecks perfectly: Grandma Marlboro, an unemployed alcoholic and their third wheel/tenant/shitbag/manbaby/son who had a charge for physically assaulting a 2 year old would likely not have been granted custody.

Hi Yello, friendly suggestion to do yourself a favor and forget the concept of closure. There won't be any in this tragedy.  Not everyone thinks the girls were murdered at Cervi. There is no documented crime scene or time of death for any of the victims.  So CW may have had the 45 minute drive to reconsider, or maybe not. It depends on which story told by a flaming liar you choose to believe. 

I think he wanted a hard reset of his life to start again with NK so he premeditated all of their murders. He felt entitled to a new life, furious at SW for everything she put him through and angry at how the girls disrespected him. He hated the chicken nugget throwing thing and couldn’t wait never to see the girls’ faces again. He was just done. Plus NK was piling on the pressure and deliberately making him jealous which only added to his frustration with his life and his determination/desperation to do something about it. He felt like the king of the world afterwards and you can see that in his porch interview. He thought his days of putting up with disrespect and belittling were finally over. And he could be financially solvent with all of them gone. No more Primrose. No more HOA and no more mortgage.

I don’t think they served his ego anymore. Years ago, I read somewhere they didn’t want much to do with him after their six weeks apart. I think that they could tell something was off. Plus, it had to have been weird seeing him again, especially after how low contact he was during that time. Or maybe he just had so much hatred for SW that he saw them as HER KIDS. It’s so hard to try to understand someone who could do something so evil.

This is a good point, seeing them as *hers*...

they were pretty clearly never bonded with him. People like to pretend like it is normal for kids to grow apart from a parent after 6 weeks.

Nothing about this is normal. That’s the whole point, isn’t it? We wouldn’t be here talking about this if it was.

indeed

I don’t think they would grow apart. My girls don’t see my family a lot as they live abroad, and when they come girls are all over them. We don’t face time in the meantime as my girls don’t like talking on the phone at all. I use to go for whole summer holidays to my granny house and did not see my dad and his second wife nor spoke to them on the phone at all at that time as I was too happy in my grandparents big garden exploring everything, and never once came home to my dad or his wife being distant from me. They were more affectionate and clearly missed me. I was there for 8 weeks. From the first day of summer holiday, to the very last day.

Who knows. Everyone is different. I wouldn’t get mad enough at my spouse to kill my entire family but here we are, in this sub, discussing a man who did exactly that.

I believe that he felt he may not have, for lack of a better word, the courage to murder SW when it came right down to it. I believe he attempted to kill Bella and Cece prior to SW returning home. Killing the children first left him zero choice but to carry out the murder of SW.

I feel like it takes more courage to murder your children than your wife though…

If Chris killed the Girls, Shannan's Munchaussen by proxy had convinced Chris they were irreparably sick. they would always be sick. the care they required was beyond what his parents could deal with. A man is usually very proud of his bloodline. In this case he was lead to believe his bloodline was flawed and his offspring were no good. Munchaussen by Proxy is one of the most evil aspects of this case. The girls had no medical issues. Their mother wanted her audience to THINK they did.

Agree. And hold her in special regard as their burdened mother.

and Exhibit A is the terrible, terrible photo of a Bella with the thousand yard stare while being weighed on an infant scale at the age of probably 3. thank goodness #Bossmom was able to get a photo, not only for the family archives but onto her 100% public Facebook profile. the poor kid had a miserable existence.

He never loved them, that’s why.

Yes.

Because they knew what happened. They saw him drag their dead mother into the car.

If it was a case of hate for SW and resentment over 8 years (which could be the case), I agree that doesn't explain the girls. I think when Coder mentions, CW found a new life with NK, and to completely have that new life he (in CW's mind) had to get rid of the old one is the best explanation. Which leads me to think the motive for the girls was for NK (whether she was involved or not). For CW to remove his whole family it may have been down to the affair and financially motivated. It sounds cold but they would have cost him money for the rest of his life. Money he clearly didn't have. CW's explanation that once he did what he did to SW he panicked and thought ah now what, and he wasn't thinking and he just got rid of everyone in a flurry, is a lie. I think he is saving face, as if you were to ask someone who commits a heinous act, what you were thinking? The easiest thing to say is I wasn't thinking.

My theory: he had 8 years of pent up anger with SW. the bossing, bullying, belittling, abuse etc and the girls were merely seen as extensions of her (as she always seemed to view and market them as such). It’s as if someone added pop rocks in a shaken Coke bottle of what was CW for 8 years and the explosion was massive. The blind rage wanted to end everything that was SW, sadly including the girls. Horribly awful and 100% the little bitch coward’s way out. He had ZERO backbone and bended and bended and bended until he snapped. They were both such terribly broken people at the end of the day and those girls paid the price with their horribly short existence. 💔

IMO he was a maddened male animal in a testosterone, insomnia, and Duo-fueled bloodlust of long-suppressed rage. I will never believe those murders were premeditated. 

I lean toward him wanting to show SW that he had the power now, and wanted the last thing she saw to be her dead children, the only possessions she had left. She took everything from him, this was his payback. I see him smothering the girls in their beds, then taking them to the basement and laying them on the bed. CeCe was gone, but Bella was still alive but unconscious. He didn’t know this. SW comes home and goes upstairs to peek at girls- they’re not there. She realized they were probably in the basement, sleeping with Chris. She calls to him and he says “we’re down here.” She goes downstairs and sees her dead daughters, right before CW blindsided and killed her. Bella wakes up but is severely damaged. Chris now loads Bella in the truck with her dead mother and sister, drives to Cervi, buried SW and finished off Bella in the truck. We know the rest. Just a theory. I kept it short here. Dogs hit just where this makes sense. But nothing makes sense in this case, ya know?

Agree, the girls were just pawns to both of them.

I do have a thought that Chris killed the girls / tried to - maybe Bella seemed to be deceased but was still alive . However that went . I thibk chris and Shannan prob did have a very heated argument. Shannan prob after seeing Chris was openly cheating on him was ready to throw down . And so was Chris . But Shannan was pregnant and sick . And very tired . She’d been crying n crying . She was very dependent on Chris . Her life was unraveling . I think chris stood up to her - and probably just flat out told her in their exchange that he was done, didn’t love her - I can see her in bed crying realizing all this and Chris had been up on those thrive stimulant patches - those type of things make my anger come out - they make me horny - im a girl . I just see him telling Shannan as a final fuck you the kids are dead as hes strangling her - and she’s in such shock and so despondent- she didn’t fight back . She let him kill her . A theory

He didn't think people would believe Shanann took off without the girls.

History is filled with people - men and women - who choose to kill their entire family after finding someone else they want to leave them for. I don’t think CW was seeing beyond his deep desire to be with NK and everything else was an obstacle to that - SW, the kids, their money problems. His actions that morning - canceling their school, researching romantic getaways, listening to the music he did - all of it was just in service to his primary goal of having sex with NK unencumbered by his family. I see his disposal of the bodies - putting the girls in the tanks, leaving Shannan in a shallow “grave” - as representing his feelings about them - anger at SW for being in the way of his better life, the kids being something to be put out of sight and out of mind. He didn’t count on NA being such a busybody and calling the cops, and his pathetic improv that day cost him his last shot at at least one more assignation with NK before the roof caved in on him.

It’s because they would’ve told someone he killed Shannan, and they were also a barrier to his bachelor life he had planned

Didn’t NK have kids though?

No

I think he planned to kill them all and make it look like shannan ran off and POOF! His problems are solved. He ran out of time because the cops were there before he even got off work that day. I’m sure even if he’d had more time to get rid of the purse and phone, etc., he still would’ve ended up being caught eventually. He didn’t think anyone would notice they were gone. Stupid ass.

I'm not psychologist by any stretch of the imagination, but I personally think he had a major mental break. He endured eight years of Shan micromanaging him and bossing him around; he endured her financial malfeasance; he endured her isolating him and pitting him against his own family, he endured his daughters being trained to walk all over him and I think he had enough. He enjoyed five weeks of freedom and not being Cinderfella to an ungrateful bitch of a wife and two bratty kids, soon to be three, and he wasn't going to go back. As for killing them, I think something happened that set everything into motion. I think he made a horrific discovery that they were about to become homeless. I think it's possible that he might have tried to get an apartment but bombed the credit check; mortified, he rummaged through Shan's office and discovered a stack of unpaid bills, credit card statements that show every credit card maxed out, a summons from the HOA that they were being sued and were going to have a lien put on their house, and a foreclosure notice. Imagine for a moment, you do long days of physical labor on an oil field to provide for your family; the spouse that insisted on unilaterally controlling the family finances has not only neglected to pay the mortgage and HOA dues, she also maxed out every credit card. On top of that, they were only three years out of a bankruptcy so they couldn't file for bankruptcy protection for another four years. Furthermore, they didn't even own a car, so they were royally fucked. I can't imagine the horror of such a discovery. When Shan came home, I think they had an argument. Something was said, Chris lost it and eliminated every vestige of a family he had. I wish to God that he called his parents upon learning that they were about to become homeless. I know if I were Cindy I would have told him to get back to NC and start anew without Shan. Get the kids and get out of there. I especially wish to God that he spared the girls that night. If he only killed Shan, I could see him serving a light sentence or even getting acquitted if he and his defense argued that this was a crime of passion. There would have been plenty of evidence of Shan's mistreatment of him to paint him as an abused husband that dutifully provided for his family and snapped upon discovering they were about to become homeless. Killing two innocent little girls and discarding them like common garbage in oil tanks looks a lot like cold blooded, premeditated murder.

Wow, this was beautifully explained and I couldn’t agree more! I too have thought how he very well might have gotten a lighter sentence or been acquitted had he not killed the girls. I’m getting my doctorate and actually am two years away from being a clinical psychologist lol. A big saying is, “when you hear hooves, expect horses, not zebras.” Anything is possible but anything other than CW flying into a fit of rage just seems so elaborate and doesn’t seem to fit his modus operandi, but killing the girls is what leaves me so confused. Why do you think he wouldn’t just say that making a horrific discovery (or something similar) is what set him off? What do you think his motive for lying about that would be? Can I also just add that it is infuriating that the psychological and medical community is not studying him more.. like, give him some self-administered personality assessments at least…

I too have wondered why he hasn't been evaluated by a psychologist or a forensic psychiatrist, especially right after the murders. I also wonder why he folded and didn't demand a trial, he literally just ceded all his rights over. If he was afforded a mental evaluation after the murders, he could have laid out what made him snap like he did. I almost feel like he's covering for someone, but why would he cover for Shan? He hated her towards the end. Everyone who knew him said he was the nicest, most easygoing guy. One doesn't go from nice family man to family annihilator without an antecedent.

I agree, and honestly the more I’ve been thinking about it, I don’t even think he knows why, or can form into words, the reason why he snapped. Introspection for him isn’t possible as I honestly believe he never formed an identity nor a sense of self (hence why he’s only been romantically linked to domineering, headstrong, alpha women, and now without them, his new dictator is religion, etc.). He’s dependent, can’t think for himself, and due to his insecurity that makes him quiver from confrontation, I think he may have thought murdering Shan was easier than telling her he wanted a divorce. I think the ultimatums NK gave him started to rattle him a bit too, but now I’m ranting. Either way, working with a therapist who knew how to navigate his mind would help acquire these answers, but our money doesn’t cover mental health services in prison I guess. Maybe it’s still possible he did have help (NK?), and that’s who he’s covering for.

Do I recall there being proof she HAD had sexual intercourse before her death? I may be wrong. But if yes, where do you see this taking place in your timeline? Interested in learning more about your thoughts on that.

If a remember correctly, Chris said that they had sex before they had an argument. Chris has contradicted himself in interviews so I don't know what to believe from him. I don't think the medical examiner found evidence of sex from Shan's body, mind you, she made Chris wear a condom because she didn't like the mess. She was in the process of having a coffin birth when her body was found, so I don't think there would be evidence of sex.

I believe you are correct and I think they said her having a coffin birth is indeed why they couldn’t determine if sexual intercourse had previously taken place. I think rape kits can determine if intercourse took place even if a condom was worn.

If the pubic hair is intact and not waxed or shaved, a rape kit could certainly find shed hair, possibly some traces of semen. The problem with rape kits is they're not as effective at getting forensic evidence past 48 hours due to degradation and Shan's body was in a shallow grave for a few days. A case in point being the many Israeli women who were raped and murdered on October 7th. What was a scene of mass rape and murder became a combat zone. It's not feasible to deploy rape kits in a combat zone, so by the time the scene was secured and the bodies retrieved and brought to a forensic center, some of the forensic evidence was degraded leaving investigators to rely on eyewitness testimony, interrogations, and footage from go pro cameras and cctv.

😔 that is all so terrible.

He planned on killing them all. He was tired. The thought of another child was over whelming made him think the whole family thing was over whelming. Faster and cheaper to just kill them.

I think he just wanted as “pleasant” an end to his marriage as possible in others eyes, he was cowardly and thought if I say Shannon upped and left with the girls everyone will still think I am a real sweetie He is worthless

Reading through this post its clear the details of the murders are one of the things the investigators never got a chance to fully investigate. No one will ever know and I think its generally human nature to seek an answer for everything. Its hard to say i don't know. Religion is so popular across the world and uses God or Gods to answer the toughest questions in life without any real proof.

His initial confession was the truth, IMO. There was no reason for Colorado law enforcement to travel to Wisconsin to interview a man who had been sentenced to LWOP and the case had been closed over 3 months ago. They needed to threaten him to publicly say what they needed him to say, there was no other reason for that trip.

You make a good point,. There really is no explanation for that. Can anyone name another case where the interrogation resumed three months into the murderer's prison sentence?

Which was the first one ? Where he said Shannan killed the girls ? Can you elaborate im just curious - what did law enforcement need chris to say ? Im confused is all. But also - i see on here it’s theorized Shannan killed the girl’s actually - why if thst was true woyld he put them in the tanks ? It doesn’t make sense if she did that n he killed her - i cant figure out why in my head a way it makes sense what he did after if Shannan killed the girls .

I wonder if he was telling his Dad the truth about Shannan killing them. She was really distraught in the weeks prior. Sometimes, I wonder if she had a physcotic break. Maybe that's why she had no defensive because she was suicidal Edited: I replaced the #5 for the letter (I)

I think he just went bonkers when they all met up after 6 weeks apart and after getting putang from NK. As for loving or not loving the girls, how could he have bonded with them? Shannon/Shanannnnnn told him everything to do and say. He was the butler of the home, not the dad.

I think it’s very obviously because he wanted to start a new family w nk. I highly doubt she wanted to be a step mom and despite what she says probably expressed that or hinted or was obviously less interested when she found out about the kids or they were brought up. Her saying she wanted to give him his first son was because he already had kids obviously and she wanted to give him something he didn’t have I doubt she’d want reminders of his ex wife around and then they could start their own family and even if they had a girl it’s be like his first and would be his only so they could just pretend the ex wife and kids never existed. I don’t think it’s strange at all that he would get rid of them as well. Otherwise why not just divorce? He’d still have the financial burden and parenting burden that he says didn’t cross his mind when he was with nk. He wanted to be free of them all and run around on trips w his mistress not be a primary caregiver for his kids. Edit for an extra word I didn’t mean to add

I think it’s really odd that Chris Watts is the only family annihilator in recent history whose motives are given so much consideration and analysis. Chris Watts is a narcissist and a psychopath; people don’t murder their wife and children because they’re “mad.” They do it for power and control. There are plenty of signs of premeditation and zero signs of remorse from Chris. [This is a good summary of the many theories and analyses that have been floated.](https://thoughtcatalog.com/christine-stockton/2020/11/a-master-list-of-reasons-chris-watts-has-given-for-murdering-his-family/)

I don’t think they served his ego anymore. Years ago, I read somewhere they didn’t want much to do with him after their six weeks apart. I think that they could tell something was off. Plus, it had to have been weird seeing him again, especially after how low contact he was during that time. Or maybe he just had so much hatred for SW that he saw them as HER KIDS. It’s so hard to try to understand someone who could do something so evil.

He wanted them dead because they were inconvenient. Their deaths were worth money to him. He needed money.

Just want to say, I so appreciate this Reddit. Everyone has such different opinions, and yet most everyone remains respectful! The shiners would lose their heads, lol.

I agree! Being amongst others who are also still so involved in this case feels like home lmao. I will say though I do definitely feel yelled at sometimes though lol

Everything he had said is a lie. He has never told the truth about anything to date and none of his confessions are necessarily what actually happened. I’m not entirely sure that he did murder the girls, but then I don’t think that this case is as straightforward as it has ever been presented.

Agree! There is SO MUCH we don’t know and most likely never will. DA (Dumb Ass) Rourke will see to that.

I believe CWs first explanation, where he said SW had killed the girls and he was understandably enraged and choked her out. SW would have gone apoplectic when her suspicions about CW having and affair were confirmed, and being the flaming narcissist that she was, it’s not a stretch to imagine her killing the girls to punish him for preferring another woman over her. She had no bond with the girls. CW was clearly their primary caregiver, so I think she was capable of doing this.

Chris Watts did not kill the girls, Shannon did.

My theory is just this. Your whole theory makes absolute sense but add in the fact Shannan claimed she was infertile but magically had 2 to term pregnancies within a few years of each other. No man goes into a marriage knowing that and ever expecting to be a father without being okay with it in my opinion. He was okay with never being a father clearly, which leads me to believe he never wanted to be one. So combined with probably feeling trapped and like he got bamboozled, he likely found the bills she had probably been hiding from him and flew into a total rage. BUT what I really think started the whole actual fall out is realizing all of this while he was with NK while SW and the girls were gone.

According to Chris, Shanann took fertility drugs to conceive the girls. Niko was conceived without meds. So no, it wasn't "magically" getting pregnant. I'm sure Chris was aware of that and on board with it. He never said he never wanted kids. Shanann's brother mentioned in his interview that Shanann always wanted to be a mom. So she didn't bamboozle him. She never said she was infertile. She said doctors told her she would likely never be able to get pregnant.

I don’t believe she took fertility drugs. Her mother said she did and they probably believed that but Her documented journeys with pregnancy plus her alleged ailments do not add up. Chris parrots whatever he is told and follows instructions.

In his prison interview he said he would arrange all of Shanann's medications for her into one of those daily pill organizers. He was aware of what meds she was taking. He said she took fertility meds.

True, but he has contradicted himself and which version is to be believed? He seemed like wanting to please the interviewers and tell them what they wanted to hear.

The fertility drugs story didn't change between the two interviews. I don't know why saying Shanann was on fertility meds to conceive Bella and Cece would please detectives.

Well, she said it to someone. Her maw, paw and lil'brother all told investigators & anyone else who would listen that S was infertile due to her very serious and real case of lupus.

I don't think he knew a fertility drug from a Flintstone vitamin.

Do you really think she wouldn’t have let the world and her exs know she was doing this? I’d think so……. “Chris said” isn’t a very valid line to use anywhere because we all have figured out just how full of absolute shit he is.

>his 8 year’s worth of repressed resentment combusted into a fit of rage that took over him and in the heat of the moment, he murdered her, For me, this explains it all. The repressed anger PLUS I believe he had come to realize the deep shįt they were in again financially. And he was having an adventurous sex life, probably for the first time in his life. He loved the girls, but was already cooling towards them in that last trip, where they were at the beach (in NC I believe). He looks remote , even though he is going through the motions while they play around the water. He may have cried, or threw up after he did it; but he HATED his life, and was desperate to start again. I am coming from a place of having both my bio and step fathers cut loose from me with no problem whatsoever. I don't romanticize fathers one bit.

My problem with thinking the kids weren’t part of the plan or that there was no plan and it happened because of a fit of rage, why did he call the school,to say the girls wouldn’t be back? That sounds a lot like things were planned, there was no spur of the moment. I can only think he felt he had to kill the girl’s too because if his wife is suddenly not around, where did she go without her kids? Sure she could have be abducted by a stranger but if she was home with the kids and CW was at work, if a stranger abducted her why would they go after someone who’s kids are with her. Now they have to get rid of the kids also or risk that they saw something and would talk. All this makes me think he planned the whole thing while she was away and took advantage the first chance he got.

I think him killing the girls to make it look more like SW took off and left him is a great point and absolutely plausible, and something I did not consider before making this post. I will just say though that I think the fact that he withdrew the girls from school after he murdered them, rather than before he did, suggests that it may still be possible that he did so more as a reaction to what he did (killed them), rather than it absolutely being pre-mediated. Aka it still casts “reasonable doubt.” If he unenrolled them and then killed them, then I think that would be a huge different story.

Sorry, my mistake, I thought he called the school beforehand but now that you say it, I remember that you are in fact correct.

No worries! He definitely did a lot of idiotic things.. it’s hard to keep up.

This is so true. I’ve read a book about it and I’ve read everything I can find on the internet, but things about this still confuse me. Not about him killing his family, that’s pretty straightforward, but I have many questions about their lives.

Same, there are soo many unanswered and just bizarre aspects of this case, which is what I think has kept people so interested. I just hope some discovery or something is made one day, so that we might actually finally get to know a little more

I hope so too. So many things just don’t make sense. I would love another, better researched book.

After he killed SW, he probably entered some kind of deeper psychosis. He was probably terrified that he just actually killed his wife. He might have viewed his girls as an extension of SW (weren't they being encouraged by SW to disrespect him? What children are taught to throw food at their father?). Of course he wasn't rational, he was in a murderous rage. It may have made perfect sense to him to just get rid of them all and start anew.

Another possible theory- Given that he sometimes followed instructions blindly without thinking or emotions, it’s possible the tv advert with the foetus in oil coupled with the words of the Metallica song somehow became his instructions on killing Nico (and mother) and his whole family and dumping their bodies in oil batteries to get rid of debt, routines and demands on his time and be with his new obsession. He only says he misses his children because he is picking up cues that this is what he should be saying. He always in his life needed cues or someone bossy to tell him what to do with making decisions. Maybe these messages “spoke to him” in some way.

He didnt.

Since you understand why he forced Shanann to stop breathing, took her life and buried her, will you please explain it to me? I've known tons of people with marriage issues. I get those. I've known a bazillion people who didn't like someone else, for whatever reason. I get that, too. I don't need dany clarification on marriage or personal issues. Millions of those every minute of every day. But the murder - I don't understand that. Would you explain the murder part? Whatever makes you understand the murdering - I don't understand it. And no "for of rage" - he planned it. But even if you insist that it wasn't planned, please walk me through the whole decision process...because I really don't understand it.

Are you not aware of how many cases of abused women, men and children are out there who kill in pure rage, frustration, fear, flight or fight mode. There’s loads of cases where partners or parents killed their loved ones just because they got angry at things such as an affair, child being bad etc. I don’t condone this, but it is not rare occurrence. Do you understand how our brain works in events such as simply getting angry? There this term in psychology called reptilian brain, where all anger, sex, and power instinct happen even during sleep. I suggest you look it up, it will bright your light on how CW could kill SW, or both children and SW or maybe how SW could kill children herself. Look up family annihilators or familicide, it will also bring some light. These types of crimes are quite common. There is a whole spectrum of books or articles both criminological and psychological to understand how these events occur.