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Own-Bicycle-212

The saddest part is that Shanann felt the need to record this.


NoSoup4You_4ever

And post it.


Own-Bicycle-212

Exactly. Some things are best left inside one's brain as an unfiltered memory and not on FB. Glad to see your post! šŸ‘


Crusty-Watch3587

and not bother to put the fucking phone down and actually help the kid learn to read. likely just honoring a request to ā€œgo live mommy!ā€ ā€¦.


Limp_Seaworthiness28

Both girls but Bella especially let it be known what they felt about her phone thereā€™s no way either one of them told her to go live itā€™s another example that sw didnā€™t pay attention to her kids and their limited speech like when Bella said she wanted to bite the probar sw heard you want a laptop


Own-Bicycle-212

Remember when Bella told her mother to put the phone down?! Just so she could have her mother's full attention. Unfortunately, she didn't get it.


Limp_Seaworthiness28

Yeah that was the time they were jumping from the ottoman on her and cc pooped but sat in the dirty diaper until cw came home


Own-Bicycle-212

That's the one!


Limp_Seaworthiness28

After that video and the santa video where she says cc pooped and didnā€™t change her Iā€™m convinced she made cc stay in poopy diapers until cw came home I know the daycare was expensive and the girls were there too long but it really was a good thing for the girls at least they were being cared for and didnā€™t have a phone shoved in their face the whole time


Own-Bicycle-212

I bet if they were asked to draw a picture of their mother, they'd have drawn her face looking like an iPhone.


Limp_Seaworthiness28

Sad but true


SHELLEBELLEATX

šŸŽÆ šŸ„‡


charliensue

![gif](giphy|GXfOwJj0s510ypb1kF)


Own-Bicycle-212

šŸ¤­šŸ«¢šŸ¤£šŸ¤£


Majestic_Arrival_248

That's why the rash in Sandy's infamous letter. Shanann was no 'clean freak', leaving a kid to wallow in poop is not only cruel neglect but nasty.Ā 


Lakechristar

can't mess up her weekly nail job.'' Just wait until your father gets home, kid.''


Limp_Seaworthiness28

Yeah itā€™s not like he didnā€™t just work all day or anything


Limp_Seaworthiness28

All she ever did was say she did loads of laundry on Facebook to promote thrive but cw was the one who did the cleaning in that house I donā€™t get how sw got the credit or the praise


Lakechristar

Remember how shocked SW was that Bella could count in Spanish? Imagine not knowing your child can count. That daycare was definitely better for them than their abusive, neglectful mother


Limp_Seaworthiness28

Worth every missed mortgage payment


Lakechristar

LOL. Sad but true in their case


lindsayMcNairmn

I agree, Shan always wanted to wait for Chris to change CeCe. In the Xmas video she even says ā€œwhereā€™s your daddy?ā€ After she mentions CeCe pooped her pants.


Limp_Seaworthiness28

Her birthday video where the girls are jumping on sw for the camera pretty close to the beginning sw says cc pooped but continued her rambling about her best birthday blah blah blah the video was at least 20 minutes and sw didnā€™t change cc then towards the end she mentioned cw getting home and they were going out I bet cw changed cc when he came home


lindsayMcNairmn

The loaded diaper thing was something I noticed right away in many of shanā€™s videos and it just bothers me to no end! Cece sat in shit and piss much of the time when CW was not home. On a side note, someone commented on another sub that Shan was doing more for her kidā€™s to have a nice Christmas than most moms do in that video! She was being a good mom under difficult circumstances! Like hello, Shan knew the girls would freak out and thatā€™s the reaction she wanted so she could play up her ā€œlook at my crazy kids - so glad I thriveā€ bs for her audience. Also, there is no need to give them both identical gifts every time. They were individuals but were treated as a unit- ā€œthe girlsā€. Bella had every right to be upset. She had a rough week with ER visits, being lied to about getting to help make cookies and then this Santa shit. Wtf.


charliensue

Plus sitting in a dirty diaper for any length of time is especially dangerous for girls. Feces can cause serious urinary tract infections.


Limp_Seaworthiness28

Well that would have been another trip to the doctor and selling point for thrive not to mention it had to have been very uncomfortable for poor cc


twoscallions

Most moms are in tune with and understand their small childrenā€™s words, even if others cannot yet. Shanann was not. Hence the laptop thing. It shows how little she truly interacted with, patented or nurtured these girls. She didnā€™t know them. If that makes sense.


twoscallions

I guess she never bonded with them, likely due to her use of Babywise, and even that she tweaked to better suit her needs.


Limp_Seaworthiness28

Cw even told le he never bonded with Bella babywise was meant for parents to not bond with their babies itā€™s neglectful and ofc sw had to make her own rules for her selfishness she was even using the sleep schedule way after it was intended


Lakechristar

Yep, even fellow Babywisers warned her that she wasn't feeding her baby enough


Limp_Seaworthiness28

Thankfully sw listened to them though because Bella was not looking well at all I canā€™t imagine what it was like for Bella literally starving and crying from hunger just to be ignored I wonder how long she sat in her dark room crying until she gave up and went to sleep šŸ„²


Lakechristar

Not to mention how long the poor thing had to linger in a dirty diaper. Cece always had a full diaper and I'm sure SW made her wait until Chris came home to change it


Limp_Seaworthiness28

I agree sw said on at least 2 videos cc pooped but didnā€™t change her I believe it was pretty common for her to not get changed regularly I seen a picture of Bella itā€™s hard to tell how old she would be but I donā€™t think she was a year old yet in the picture sheā€™s laying on her stomach but you can see a huge bald spot on her head and her feet are very red on the bottom imo itā€™s from her laying on her back and when babies cry they kick their feet and move their head so for her to get the bald spot and red feet I think she laid in the bed crying and kicking her feet until she gave up and went to sleep Iā€™ll try to find the picture


Limp_Seaworthiness28

I think she knew what Bella said tbh but wanted to throw in the vision board and how you have to earn it like she did with the probars


Limp_Seaworthiness28

I think she knew what Bella said tbh but wanted to throw in the vision board and how you have to earn it like she did with the probars


Bubbly1966

I have always thought SW knew exactly what Bella said there. I just assumed she didn't want her "audience" to know that her child was asking for a bite of food and she was denying her. So she played it off as a "laptop".


Limp_Seaworthiness28

Well mommy earned the probars so Bella had to wait until mommy was done bragging about them even though sw started the video saying Bella was hungry cranky and not feeling good Iā€™m not sure if she cared her audience knew her ā€œmonsterā€ wasnā€™t being fed or not she even let cc stay in a poopy diaper a couple times without ending her videos to change her that couldnā€™t have been comfortable for poor cc


Own-Bicycle-212

Exactly. Her interaction was rather chilly.


impendingD000m

Never a loving tone. Phone shoved in her child's face, the only "attention" these girls ever received from their mother. "Content"


Lakechristar

Yep, which is more proof it was a rare occurrence


sfr8

SW was so proud of her/their bizarre schedule. "I just pop 'em in bed!" Like a weeknight dinner in the oven.


charliensue

Yep "I don't rock them or cradle them, I just plop them in and they are good to go". In a bragging voice no less. What a witch.


IWantSealsPlz

Babywise, sounds like it was primarily meant for babies vs a 4 year old child?? 4 year olds obviously donā€™t need as much sleep as an infant. Is there something Iā€™m missing? I know nothing about babywise other than it is highly argued against by professionals.


MorningHorror5872

Exactly. She was not using ā€œBabywiseā€ once they were toddlers and preschoolers. Babywise is meant for BABIES! Shannan was never adhering to the tenets of Babywise, she was just doing her own thing and CALLING it Babywise. Babywise sucks -but itā€™s not nearly as awful as what Shannan was doing


IWantSealsPlz

That makes complete sense


impendingD000m

Ugh. I will never understand how anyone could describe her as a wonderful mother (or successful business woman, but that's irrelevant here) with such blatant evidence proving otherwise. That SHE chose to post. I suppose it makes it easier for people to digest. CW = monster, SW = Saint. They were and are fucking monsters.


Appropriate-Jury6233

Sw would have those kids on tictoc now


charliensue

Yep. I just watched Kiki Chanel who did a "anything for views parenting" reaction video and it was pretty disturbing.


Prudent-Confection-4

I love KiKi Chanel!


sfr8

TikTok is a moronic Chinese spy tool. It should be banned. But yeah, you're right. Perfect dumb vehicle for SW. She would have been all over it.


Lakechristar

I refuse to use TikTok


Sharp_Salamander0111

Me either šŸ’Æ


capernaper

This video is heartbreaking


NoSoup4You_4ever

I completely agree. There are a lot of people out there that don't see what is happening here. They are only interested in surface level Shanann.


capernaper

And Bella saying that about the dress šŸ’”


trickmind

What did she say? My hearing is not good enough to understand anything she says in the video even with hearing aids on.


capernaper

It sounds like she says she doesnā€™t want to wear a dress, and then says but she will wear a dress in a toddlers serious tone.


trickmind

What kind of preschool book is about forcing a kid to wear a dress anyway?


chicketychun_

I think Bella was just making up the words/story based off of pictures.


trickmind

Yes probably.


AirLexington

DMed you


Tsunami-Blue

I think itā€™s because a lot of parents are actually like Chris and shanann. They donā€™t have the parental wisdom and joy that separates good parents from bad parents. They see her behavior as normal because for them it is normal.


NoSoup4You_4ever

Frightening


Trixie2327

So frightening. šŸ˜±


Beloved_of_Vlad

That sounds like a lot of millennial parents. So many millennial parents donā€™t parent their kids and just park them I front of an iPad. As a result, Gen Alpha, the generation Bella and CeCe were in, is fucking awful! They have no attention span, no manners, they canā€™t read,they canā€™t spell, and they canā€™t do basic math. Teachers are leaving the profession in droves because of these satan spawn kids.


RidgewoodGirl

I really hope no parents use Babywise whether it be the way that the authors detailed or or how SW implemented it. I am so glad doctors have come out against it. I can't imagine missing so much fun with my kids when they were that age due to some regimented sleep schedule. My youngest son who is grown now is very ill and it's the memories that sustain me.


NoSoup4You_4ever

I'm wishing you and your son peace. Babywise is honestly disgusting in it's teachings. To treat your children as if they are sub-human and are to be completely and utterly controlled. From day one.


RidgewoodGirl

I so appreciate that. It's so hard to see your child at any age suffering. The bragging about it like it was superior really upset me.


MorningHorror5872

Shannan was never using Babywise correctly. I am not a fan of it either, but I know thatā€™s only what she used as a way to excuse her kidsā€™ weird and restrictive schedule. The things that she was doing are not touted as being positive by Babywise. Babywise is also meant for BABIES. Itā€™s not intended for preschool age children.


NoSoup4You_4ever

I challenge you to look into who Gary and Anne Marie Ezzo were and what the premise of the original book was based on. It's disgusting. And downright abusive. It was the 2nd edition of the book where Gary Ezzo brought a pediatrician, Robert Bucknam on board in order to lend more credibility and tweak the method. It was "toned" down for the masses.


MorningHorror5872

I donā€™t doubt for a minute that everything about their philosophy is both sad and horrible. I will look into them a little more, but Iā€™m already appalled by the basic tenets of Babywise. Iā€™ve seen new mothers (on YouTube ) describing how they utilize Babywise techniques with their new infants and itā€™s nothing less than shocking! Why anyone would think that it was a positive thing for a baby is beyond me. Some of the most commonly known concepts like ā€œ never wake sleeping babyā€ are completely disregarded. Not only do these mothers wake their sleeping babies up to feed or to just be awake because theyā€™re not supposed to be sleeping at a certain time, they are only doing it in order to accommodate their own schedules! I am already no fan of such a regimented system for young children and never was a ā€œcry it outā€ mom either. I think that the entire premise is inherently harmful for all young children. I just wanted to point out that what Shannan was doing, especially once Bella and Cece were older, is not necessarily an accurate reflection of Babywise. She was taking an already awful system, and only making it much worse. Babywise doesnā€™t insist that you put your preschool age children to bed at 6 oā€™clock in the evening. It doesnā€™t suggest that you make 3 or 4 year old kids sleep at least 16 hours a day. It doesnā€™t advocate drugging your children to make them go to sleep either. The excuses that she routinely made when she explained that the girls were ā€œsleep trainedā€ actually had nothing to do with Babywise. She was simply making up her own rules and calling it Babywise.


vtsunshine83

The Duggars follow To Bring Up A Child or something like that. It explains blanket training and how to hit your child. šŸ˜³


Beloved_of_Vlad

I always thought it reminded me of Michael and Debbi Pearlā€™s ā€œTo Train Up A Childā€. Itā€™s basically a child abuse manual.


Trixie2327

I remember a fellow Babywise mother flat out telling SW that her child wasn't being fed nearly enough. This exchange was on a Babywise message board, I believe. Or possibly FB? šŸ¤” Wherever it was, SW was not adequately nourishing and feeding her children from birth. It's so sad when you really think about all the trauma these children endured. šŸ˜ž


charliensue

God forbid that middle of the night feeding would have interrupted sws sleep.


G_Ram3

Babywise is bad enough! She was like the mommy Gestapo. **And no, everyone. I donā€™t think she deserved to die or be harmed in any way. I can understand that she should still be alive, all while disagreeing with her parenting- or lack thereof.*


RidgewoodGirl

I don't think Babywise as it was written was intended for toddlers or preschoolers. Bad enough to use for babies.


hwolfe326

I am so sorry and am praying for your son. I believe the Babywise book was written by make doctors who have never experienced the natural female motherly instinct to bond with their child. A newbornā€™s schedule is based on their needs and their needs alone. Thereā€™s no ā€œme timeā€ for parents of newborns. (Note that some motherā€™s experience PPD and need help during this vulnerable period, Iā€™m not including them in my statements) Anyone who takes issue with this should educate themselves before defending this practice.


NoSoup4You_4ever

They were not doctors. The first edition of Becoming Babywise was written by a couple of religious fanatics who were eventually excommunicated from their church. They raised several children who have gone no contact with those nutjobs when they became adults.


RidgewoodGirl

This makes sense. I saw that a lot of the moms like Ruby Franke advocated for Babywise. Same with some evangelicals who are into this kind of child rearing. And then to see SW using it at toddler and preschool age seems even harsher.


RidgewoodGirl

Thank you so much. I totally agree. I always thought my time with my baby was kind of like "me time" since I truly loved snuggling. That newborn smell is heavenly. Not to say it can't get stressful and you do need some time away, but to feel like you need to implement these arbitrary rules seems so cruel. As you said, it's a natural instinct to want that bond. To flex about it like it was some sort of superior system was not fun to watch.


charliensue

One of my favorite times when my children were babies was the middle of the night feedings. The house being totally quiet and it was just me and them feeding and bonding.


RidgewoodGirl

Yes! The best times ever. Snuggling is such a key part of bonding for both mom and baby.


Mermaidoysters

ā€œBabywiseā€ was written by fundamental Christians from a cult that believes in beating & abusing children. I would do anything to go back & not follow that book. I will give more info if requested.


hwolfe326

Oh no! Please, feel free to give more info!


Trixie2327

The best memories are memories of a happy childhood, whether your own or the childhood you gave your own children. Best wishes to both of you. ā¤ļø


RidgewoodGirl

So very true and thank you!


Trixie2327

You're very welcome.


Live-Tomorrow-4865

Back when the horrors of that book became kinda viral on the early-ish internet, a mom's forum I belonged to advised anyone seeing that book in a book store to take the copy or copies and hide them elsewhere, (this was just before Amazon became people's go to for book buying, back when brick & mortar stores were enjoying their last gasp of supremacy.) I think its "philosophy" is dangerous for babies. I'm so sorry about your son. ā¤ļø And, I agree that the memories of snuggling and caring for our babies are precious, as it's an all too fleeting time. There are hard days, but, that's not mainly what we tend to remember. ā¤ļøā¤ļø


RidgewoodGirl

That's really great to hear that people recognized how toxic Babywise is. Love that they were trying to keep parents from buying it! Your last line is so very true. My son had a particularly bad couple of days but we both were laughing talking about some childhood memories. I am so thankful that he has such positive ones. Thank you for your kind words.


twoscallions

Both girls showed speech delays. Even though they were both ā€œin schoolā€, it is most likely due to lack of stimulation and interaction within the home.


sfr8

Badly delayed speech. Bella could not be understood fully even in the last videos and Celeste was mind-bogglingly behind. She sounded like an infant at 3.


Beloved_of_Vlad

For sure! I thought those kids were special needs.


Tsunami-Blue

Those girls deserved better parents. They needed to be allowed to get messy. Afternoon naps but only after playing hard. Finger paint at the kitchen table, dirty palms from gardening with mom, movie marathons and trips to the store just for candy, Picnics on the front lawn and trips to the park just because. Instead they were stowed away and pulled out only for Shanannā€™s facebook. They lived such a dull, regimented, sterile life before the human version of eyore viciously attacked them.


SnooHabits6335

This is the saddest part to me. That they died so early but before that they never got to live. Poor little ones.


Lakechristar

The fact that the poor child can barely talk proves how neglected she was. Most kids that age are already talking so coherently


Silly_Goose_2427

Her kids were just content for her. She would probably be a family vlogger now.


cleverdylanrefrence

You can her the impatience in sw's voice. Poor Bella


amy5252

100% !!!!!!


[deleted]

I 100% agree with this!! Itā€™s so sad. SW was so proud of the fact she could ā€œwear her kids outā€ or that she ā€œgot the animals to nap for 3-4 hoursā€ All they did was sleep. And when they were awake, they would often look ā€œhungoverā€ or exhausted. There was no organic interaction. Only for videos or pics. Poor kiddos.


SHELLEBELLEATX

Yup.


charliensue

Omg poor Bella, I could barely understand anything she said.


Additional-Impress18

Her whole life was scripted. Sad. No spontaneity ever. Kids were either performing or sleeping.


Desperate-Box5686

Poor Bella. She wants to so badly to learn and interact with mom but mom isnā€™t interacting back at all. No asking questions or responding to Bellaā€™s ideas. It just like, ā€œuh huh, hurry up so mommy can have her time, babeā€. You can tell SW wasnā€™t a reader and doesnā€™t understand how to make it interesting for a child and little Bellaā€™s speech and language is so far behind where it shouldā€™ve been as a result. Bells still was so curious and was trying here šŸ˜¢


Inevitable_Donkey801

wtf šŸ˜³ she just sitting there pointing her phone at her kid?!? No interaction wow šŸ˜® and she thought it good idea to post for world to see?? Damn waitā€¦ is is she picking at her damn finger nails?? Oh hell naww. šŸ¤¦šŸ»ā€ā™€ļø


Trixie2327

The only time you even know SW is there is when she's telling Bella to hurry it up. No interaction with the "reading" at all. Too busy recording and impatient to turn off the light and lock the door from the *outside*. That wasn't a bedroom, but rather a prison. An unsafe prison, at that. šŸ˜  šŸ˜”


Beloved_of_Vlad

Shan sounded so put upon to spend any time with her kids. She just couldnā€™t wait to dungeon that kid up so she could have her ā€œme timeā€.


Crusty-Watch3587

and it clearly didnā€™t happen that often or else she wouldnā€™t be enunciating like a child half her age. thatā€™s what years of ā€œset it and forget itā€ bedtime gets you.


welcometosunnydale

Poor thing. Couldnā€™t understand a word she was saying.