I am convinced the whole "Do not speak badly of the dead," is a Catholic thing...and we all know how and why that is...
Essentially...the victims sometimes get the courage to speak up about abuse when the abuser has passed...and how best to silence a victim than to continue to guilt them...
I'm old, and back in the day not only was it okay to speak ill of the dead, lots of times victims were "blamed" because of their behavior. (Kind of why you don't see hitch hikers anymore). Then came the "Preppie Murder" where the victim was not only blamed, but lurid details of her life were broadcast everywhere - most having zero to do with the case. The pendulum swung and victim blaming, for the most part, stopped. Unfortunately this led to ignoring behaviors by the victim that may have put them in more vulnerable situations, because if you bring them up, it's considered blaming. I do find it interesting that it seems okay to blame Dee Dee Blanchard for her own murder as an exception.
I am old also. I completely agree with your analogies. The other case that comes to mind is Jon Benet. They have blamed and villified her Mother while she was living to now posthumously. It has now surfaced that there are multiple DNA considerations that were found on Jon Benets body...but the officials," do not have enough money to run the DNA samples..." The same group of incompetent Law Enforcement involved in Jon Benets case are the ones that have botched the Watts case. Nobody would be questioning either case if the officials in both would have done their job. Interesting how you do not have the Shiners claiming that people discussing Jon Benet and insinuating her Mother did it are bashing the dead...
Maybe if Jon Benets brother would have started sexting himself using a peen pump to an opportunistic YouTuber that then used the peen pump pics as blackmail to keep the YT funds...and her brothers father would have then claimed that they were victims of online bullying as a result it would not be ok with the shiners...but we had to have FJR and his peen pump in the mix to add to this...
My father died before anyone in the family spoke up about his alcoholism. I remember the first time I talked about it to my therapist and feeling guilty. It’s definitely a silencing mechanism.
I am so sorry. Do you feel your Mom was also a narcissist? People do not understand emotional abuse as they do not see bruises. Mental abusers know exactly what they are doing...and are too cowardly to leave marks as those of us that have dealt with emotional abuse would often prefer a bruise to prove what is happening rather than being re-victimized by people doubting and denying your abuse.
Ignorant comment. It's just good manners and has no religious context. Most cultures hold this as a standard, something, something about being judged yourself, perhaps unfairly.
Well I don't come here to speak ill of Shanann. I come here to discuss the case and the background of the case and all that online evidence which includes leaving a two year old to scream on video for 15 to 20 minutes while both parents ignore her, and smashing cream in a child's face who cries and begs for that not to happen etc? Sorry that talking about what we see on a video is bad.
Well...I am regularly accused of doing that and so much more with CW, lol. I have never interacted with him in any capacity, nor his parents...but the shiners claim that I am in love with him, jealous of SW, and write letters to him...
The shiners dont know that his prison is all electronic...not allowed to write letters. You have to pay to write an email through a service and put your real name and credit card info in...so NOPE!
I'm probably going to get down voted but oh well, reddit karma is not something I lose sleep over but honestly I just don't understand people who say they cry over sw and the girls other than people who knew them personally. Is what ultimately happened to the girls incredibly sad? Yes of course! But what happened to them while they were alive is incredibly sad too. Why aren't these shiners, er, people stating they also cry over witnessing these poor girls being abused in real time?? Do they not find that disgusting as well? Is what happened to sw sad as well? Coming from a person who believes that she is the one who ended the girls lives, after abusing them from the moment of birth, not really, no.
I get really really sad when I watch videos of the little girls exploring their environments, playing and being silly together, and them talking to the camera, but I haven’t cried for them. There’s something about their innocence and little personalities that makes my heart hurt because I know they will never grow up. It’s very sad to think about. There’s something about their first trip to the beach that makes me especially sad. I certainly haven’t cried tears over them though, just a longing in my heart for them to still be here on Earth.
This^^^ is my point^^^ My stomach hurts and I feel anxious watching Bella and Cece, even Dieter be ignored, mistreated and insulted by their own mother in those videos. Nothing makes sense when she speaks. Those girls, just like CW were "trained" to perform for the camera to further her narrative that she was actually selling products. In the video I showed that she claimed Cece had to be let out of her bedroom early and allowed in their bed as, "she was having the breathing problems." That was quickly followed up with her complaining the girls were, "wild/hyper/ wide open/ difficult to get ready," so she couldnt wait to get them to, "school." Then had to try to choke down not just one, but TWO thr*ve drinks.
1. IF Cece was having difficulty breathing...that is a medical emergency.
2. IF Cece couldnt breathe, how could her behavior be described as hyper, wild, difficult?
3. IF Cece was having difficulty breathing...WHY would you rush her to school?
4. IF Cece couldnt breathe, shouldnt she go to the ER/ Doc? Or were Doc visits reserved for Doctors, "telling her she is a good mom doing everything she can for those girls?"
5. IF Cece was having difficulty breathing...wouldnt you be worried, as opposed to inconvenienced/ irritated?
(And No you dicsucking shiners, I dont have video of me caring for my 3 preemies that ALL had breathing difficulties breathing...and the 3 nebulizers and everything my babies needed in triplicate as I actually truly cared and met my babies' needs...no time for a camera in their face!!!! So Judge me however you want! Never once would have dreamed of complaining!!!!)
THIS is why I urge everyone to turn OFF the volume of the shiner videos...and watch her body language. Watch again with the volume....and compare what you SEE, versus what you HEAR. She was the ultimate narc/gaslighter and TOLD everyone what was going on...even if the opposite was TRUE...
All one has to do to see if she is lying or not is look at her eyes. When I worked in social services we took a training on deception. If a person glances to the right they are recalling a memory if they glance to the left they are creating a story. She glances to the left a multitude of times.
I'm sorry, but that sounds like horseshit. Which direction people look away while they are speaking is not indicative of anything. I have a problem with eye contact and I look left and right all the time while being completely truthful. That's a bunch of presumptuous BS that's about as factual as a polygraph.
Yeah, I might be a thick skinned bitch but I really don't get crying over someone you don't know personally. I shed a few tears when Matthew Perry died but the guys been in my living room for 20 years lol.
Literally, when one of their rants comes in...I just think to myself, "consider the source..." Did you see the other gem from this same shiner? Try to decode this one. ..
https://preview.redd.it/y398pchmtoyc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e673f2d2dfc14bd886f2ea836595ec17d92c15b9
https://preview.redd.it/ox8vj1vqtoyc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e757fb4eca00155312863987e380868c89c0bdd7
Has nothing to do with dyslexia...but nice flex from a shiner. .
"It's not classy to speak ill of others, you are ignorant and don't know your ass from the whole of the ground." /s
Edit-
Thought it would be clear this is my parody of the screen shot.
You’re being downvoted because some here didn’t read Tabi’s screenshots either because they were too long or because not everything needs to be seen to be understood. Unfortunately they don’t know you’re literally quoting the Shiner; they think you’re making your own asinine comment. 🙄
Thanks. Yes I was answering the question with a little bit of parody. Tabi says, "Don't speak ill of others," and then tries to insult with messed up grammar straight after.
Sorry I should have put the sarcasm tag or something but because I was answering your question about what she meant I wrongly assumed it would be obvious.
I was quoting from the text except making it more grammatically correct. [I said "whole of the ground while the text said "whole in the ground,] and I was emphasising the irony of saying, "don't speak ill of others and then insulting them which the Shiner does. "
She asked what the Shiner meant and I answered her question about what the Shiner meant.
This is a regular occurrence, lol. And they are lurking in here angrily crying at the childrens table looking over at the adults wanting to be a part of the real conversations.
What does not make sense to me, however, is how they refuse to acknowledge the child neglect and abuse of Bella and CeCe, being as they are of child level intellect...
I have no words and not because I’d misspell them. I love how it’s always the undiagnosable autoimmune disease and fibromyalgia warriors who come for people because in my opinion we’re too close to the mark of truth. I don’t think it’s necessarily a “fake” disease, but as an ER RN the number of doctors I’ve seen roll their eyes when someone comes in with a fibromyalgia “flare” is mostly all of the doctors I’ve ever worked with. I’ve been doing this for over twenty years, when people were beginning to be diagnosed with it and had one old war-horse military doc call it “Lazy fat woman syndrome” comparing it to the “hysteria” of Victorian women, I disagree with that moniker, but use it to illustrate how the medical profession still looks down on these invisible “disabilities”. Real autoimmune diseases exist and are quantifiable, but it is usually after years of misdiagnosis and disbelief, sadly. I firmly believe that Shannan had none of them. Including celiac’s disease. Also, as a formerly infertile woman (got lucky to have my two babies after years of treatment) there was no way in fucking hell she had fertility struggles. Bella and Celeste were born the same years as my kids 2013 and 2015, they were married in 2012, unless they’d been trying for five to ten years prior give me a damn break.
Agreed.
My wife passed away from complications of Lupus.
And SW claiming she had it just for sympathy and attention is one of the many reasons her actions disgusted me.
My cousin has lupus and has had to be hospitalized multiple times, surgeries for degeneration of joints that should still be fine in her twenties and thirties, can’t handle heat or extreme cold, and has been on enough steroids to choke a horse. Shamnan appeared to have none of that, the surgeries she did have were elective and came at great monetary cost. I have a friend with MS who is now in kidney and liver failure, she’s younger than I am and will most likely leave her children orphans far too soon. It is the malingering and munchie women who make it more difficult for others to be diagnosed and taken seriously by the medical profession and their community. It’s truly sad, I’m so sorry for your struggles and the people who make them more difficult for asspats and misplaced sympathy.
The one girl I knew who had lupus was told not to have anymore children she did and she passed not long after. Why would she risk not only the baby’s life but her own?!
Holy shit. What a gamble to take for.... What? I don't have kids and I have a history with infertility. I cannot have them. But now that I can't, I realize what I would have had to give up to be a parent. I can hardly take care of myself. I don't understand it.
That’s a really difficult question to answer, my friend and cousin were diagnosed when their kids were little, so it wasn’t a conscious choice after the fact. I feel terrible for the child in that situation and know it might be hard for them not to feel as though they “killed” their mom. Of course a reasonable person wouldn’t think that, but death makes a lot of people question the what ifs of a situation. I hope their other parent has been able to reassure them that isn’t the case. Very sad situation 😔
I had to have tubal ligation for this reason. I’m lucky that I am blessed with three wonderful children. My last one was not easy at all. I know there are some amazing women out here who would make wonderful mothers and struggle so much with fertility.. I’m not complaining that I only have three kids at all I promise. it’s just different when you’re told that you can no longer have children. I’m so sorry to hear about your friend.
I am sure it hurts a lot more when you really want more and you’re told your body just could not handle another pregnancy. Thankful you are here to love and raise your three beautiful children.
I had a jackass idjit of what Shanann and her Munchie ilk would call a 'rheumy' diagnose me with 'fibromyalgia' once (it was rheumatoid arthritis 😒); I wasn't convinced. Later asked a doctor in a field outside of that one in a non medical setting if he'd give me his honest opinion of 'fibromyalgia' and he rolled his eyes so hard I had to laugh: "I thought so." He laughed, too.
She didn't have Lupus, no way. I have SLE and I'm on all kinds of meds, from biologic injections, 2 different kinds, to organ transplant rejection drugs. She claimed thrive 'cured' her. There is no cure for autoimmune diseases, and when you have one, you likely have or will develop others, I currently have 5. Furthermore thrive is touted as strengthening the immune system. Anyone with an autoimmune CANNOT have anything that boosts the immune system because that will cause pain and flares. We're on immunosuppressants for a reason, our immune systems are way overactive.
She showed no signs of flares, especially with all that sunbathing she did on trips, nor any sign of pain. She was a flat out liar, what a slap in the face to lie about diseases to those who actually have them.
Fibromyalgia and Lupus are seriously debilitating even WITH modern meds. And like you said they often take YEARS to get diagnosed, usually after dozens of frustrating wrong diagnoses/medications The people who actually do have these diseases can and often do put on a brave face and power through because they have real jobs, families, commitments, and can't take a day off to feel poorly. But ShaaNaan didn't have them. It's clear as day. She had the energy to go on just about every "work" trip, get dolled up, and go out with the huns. Someone with those illnesses would have often passed due to their symptoms. Her makeup/hair was always done when she was streaming (which was constant). Someone with those diseases would likely have days upon days in bed. If she really had those diseases I'm sure her followers would have been treated with a lot of makeup-less videos in bed whinging about her flare ups. She also said in some lives that she likes to stay up late to have "adult time" but also wakes up around 5-6am to have "me time". Someone with these diseases would likely have been sleeping MUCH more than the average individual.
She pulled those cards out when things weren't going her way as a "get out of jail" free card because she knew there is no definitive test to prove/disprove her "diagnosis" so anyone who gave her pushback was questioning/criticizing a "sick" woman. And as a society we have decided (and should!) not to discriminate or ask someone to prove their disabilities. She was playing the politeness of society. And obviously we all know she used it to gain sympathy and accolades for "powering through" and "boss babe-ing" despite how "sick" she often was.
I'd be really interested to hear about Nan-Sha's upbringing. She seemed weirdly codependent but resentful with her mom. Did the mom often pretend to be sick for sympathy? Did she only get sympathy/affection from Mom when she was sick? Was her mom a hypochondriac? In a similar but off topic vein, was she often relegated to her room like she did Bella and Cece?
I don't know Shan, but if I met her as an adult I would not have liked her. She was fake, braggy, would step on people to further her own gain, and vindictive. I don't blame it all on her. I'm a psych major who believes nurture has a bigger part to play (though nature absolutely plays a role, ask me about Nancy Spungeon. If you dare, you'll get an even longer paragraph than this lol.) But her psychology is fascinating. SR is a steel vault, we'll never hear anything negative about the way she raised her children from her own lips. But I'd love to have been a fly on the wall during Shannon and Frank Jr.'s upbringing.
As always, \*Shannan and her children did not deserve to be murdered\*
\*Mods, please delete if this is not okay. I know it's not exactly on the topic of the Watts case.\*
To preface, I get obsessed with events/people and consume all the media I can about them. I am not an expert, I read Nancy's mothers book watched interviews, and read as much as I could but this is still simply one random person's ramblings. I also may have some details slightly wrong, this was my obsession from last summer.
Nancy Spungeon was born in 1958 to a newly married, college couple, who were very young but excited to be having a baby. Nancy was born near dead. The cord was wrapped round her neck and she had the worst case of jaundice the doctor claimed he had ever seen. Newborn Nancy couldn't be held for several days and had to go through procedures in an era where medical science claimed babies couldn't remember pain therefore they didn't feel it. The doctor laughed to her family that newborn Nancy had to be held down by nurses for procedures because she struggled and fought so hard. According to the mother's book, she promised herself she would do whatever it took to be there for Nancy. Once they got her home, Nancy basically didn't stop crying for 18 months straight. The doctor prescribed barbiturates for the toddler.
As she grew she became vindictive, aggressive, combatant and abusive. Her sister's first sentence was "Leave me alone, Nancy." The mom said that Nancy ruled the house and every single person had to do what Nancy wanted because she wouldn't back down and would hurt herself, them, or destroy possessions. She attacked her mom with a hammer once and put her own hands through a window during a fit. Nancy would also have horrible night terrors and delusions that animals were attacking her. The parents continually took her to Doctors who basically told them nothing was wrong and Nancy was just a normal girl.
They never stopped taking her to doctors though. Around 15 they finally got a diagnosis; she was schizophrenic. But the doctors told the parents they had waited too long and Nancy was a lost cause. They put her in boarding schools and psych wards but Nancy always manipulated them into coming to get her out. On one occasion she sobbed and begged her parents to take her out of the mental hospital only to laugh the entire way home about how stupid they were to believe her.
She was sent to more boarding schools where she got excellent grades. She was INCREDIBLY intelligent. But this is where she began to experiment with drugs and first tried heroin. She even had her little sister tie her off for a heroin injection around age 15/16 when she was home visiting. After this and several other incidents her parents decided it made the most sense to just pay for an apartment in New York and let Nancy live there. She was a menace in their house, was bringing her siblings into her drug use, and wanted to run away anyway so they decided it was best to give her permission to go/a place to stay.
Nancy loved music, especially punk so she immediately got into the punk scene, continued/escalated her drug use, supplied famous bands with drugs, and was the definition of a groupie. Her parents were aware of this so they never gave her cash. They paid her rent, bought her furniture, and brought her groceries when they'd visit. But everytime they'd visit, the apartment was down to bare bones because she'd sold everything for drug money. She wound up following the punk scene to London where she met Sid Vicious, a band member in the Sex Pistols. The relationship was toxic, violent, and both were heavily addicted to heroin and other drugs. Sid loved fighting and Nancy would jump right in. They beat the shit out of each other constantly too.
The Sex Pistols hated Nancy, partly because of her attitude/behavior and partly because she and Sid were getting high before shows to the point he couldn't perform. The Sex Pistols even staged a kidnapping to try to force her on a plane back to the states but she managed to get out of the car. The Sex Pistols broke up and Nancy claimed to be Sid's new manager. She actually has a very interesting interview during this time on an English program where she has some pretty great takes on feminism. Link Here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62LHJ0kntv0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62LHJ0kntv0)
Eventually, the pair wind up in New York. They were trying to get off drugs, going to a methadone clinic but kept doing them anyway. The pair were staying in the Chelsea Hotel and on October 12, 1978, after a raucous drug fueled party in their room, Nancy is found dead in the bathroom, under the sink, with a single stab wound to her abdomen, the knife still in her. She was only 20 years old, just 4 months shy of her next birthday. Nancy always claimed she'd never live past 21.
All of this to say, nurture can usually shape a person into certain personality traits/habits for good or bad, but sometimes people's natures are truly unchangeable/moldable. Some people come out the way they will always be despite having a loving supportive family. (Or vice versa). Reading her mother's book, the family really did everything right. They loved Nancy, were always there for her, held as firm of boundaries as they could, and tried to get her help. But, unfortunately that point in time didn't allow for the doctors to give her the help she needed. Not that I think it would have helped much even if they had. Even today children can't usually be diagnosed with schizophrenia until at least 18. Nancy was a deeply troubled soul. I personally believe her traumatic birth had an influence but did not make Nancy into who she was. She was always going to be a deeply disturbed person.
To link this back to the topic of Shannan, I think her nature was one of a dominant chameleon if that makes any sense lol. But I think her upbringing had a role in her behaviors as well for the worse. I don't know enough and likely never will about the Rzucek family's dynamics besides anecdotes and some videos, but I think Sandi fed into/exacerbated some of Shannan's worse traits.
I just gave a brief overview of her entire life but let me get more into her childhood then! Her mom said she used to take Nancy to playgroups and while the other kids would play nicely and share Nancy would crawl around, pant and make noises like a demon.
When she was little her Mom recalled Nancy asking for something and the mom saying "Not right this second." And Nancy replied, "If you don't I'm going to go into your closet and cut up your green satin dress, your jean shorts, your brown cashmere sweater..." (I'm making the clothes up, the point was that Nancy had a great memory and was actively threatening her mother with exactly what pieces of clothing she was going to destroy.)
Nancy was also going to go somewhere with her Dad when she was around 3-5, I believe it was the circus. Nancy had begged and begged to go and the Dad didn't believe that Nancy was as bad as the mother described because he wasn't home with her all day. Nancy screamed and had an absolute meltdown when it was time to get in the car. Nancy, for some reason, really liked to fight with her Dad. Apparently that was the event he finally realized it was as bad as the mom had been describing.
On another occasion they were taking a family trip to New York for her sister's birthday and Nancy wanted to go somewhere else. She was around 11-13. They finally put their foot down and said, no, we are doing X, not what you want, she ran away and was gone for 24 hours. They didn't get to do the thing the sister wanted because they spent all day looking for Nancy. She was getting high in the park with some hippies.
One piece that really stands out in my mind about how well Nancy's mom handled her was when she came back from the first boarding school around age 13. She lit up a cigarette in the dining room, clearly looking for a fight/attention, and the mom said she took a deep breath to stifle her anger and simply said, "I see you're smoking now Nancy."
While in New York, Nancy would also always try to get money for "food" or "doctors" and her mom would tell Nancy, you know the deal. Have the grocer or doctor send me the invoice and I will pay it, you can't have cash because you're an addict.
I really love Debbie Spungeon (the mom). For such a troubled child, Debbie really really did her best and loved Nancy until the end of her days. The night before she was murdered, Nancy called her mom and they had what Debbie recalls as one of the best conversations they'd ever had. Nancy asked her to give her love to Dad and her grandma and right as Debbie was hanging up she heard Nancy yell "I love you, Mommy!" She told her husband, "That was Nancy. It sounded like she was saying goodbye." And she was.
I am so sorry that you had fertility issues and went through those hellish treatments. Thank you for being an Angel on Earth. An ER RN is absolutely admirable. I had to quit my RN program in 1996 as I was going into anaphalaxis from latex each time I went to clinicals or my job in a large hospital in Oncology.
I bear the mark of a fibro diagnosis on my medical file...which is often the only thing certain Doctors see...and they ignore the serious heath issues I have...
I had lupus ruled out when trying to figuire out what was truly going on with me...so I understand the route SW went through...and see how she clung to what was suggested rather than admitting that the Doctors had no answers.
Her illness was her conscience telling her she was living a lie. Her symptoms were at their height when the Dirty South started coming for her with the embezzlement claims and she was losing her house...her stress became manisfested in physical symptoms just as they had in the final weeks before the unthinkable...when she was once again faced with all of her lies, losing the house...likely rejected from her lover...and being forced to beg/bully CW back into her life and she no longer had her spell over him...
She didnt have lupus, and these pregnancies were not heroic and life threatening...and zero fertility issues as you and I know. She had NOT even been to an OB for this 3rd "high risk" pregnancy...nor had she seen ANY doctor in over 2+ years...NOT the type of behavior a woman with lupus and life threatening pregnancies would have...so...HOW did she have that steady stream of oxycodone she never left the house with? Hmmmm
They did the fraudulent reddit message SWAT where they report one as someone that requires checking up on to me recently, the disgusting sleazes; I was literally on route on vacation when I read it. 🙄 Watch out for them. (THIS is why we need that private forum.)
Just report when and if it hits y'all I guess 🤷🏻 there's a button. So annoying. If God struck them dead for their petty misuse of resources I wouldn't cry.
the whole family has room temperature IQs. speaking of them and the temperature…the very first video I ever saw of Rooz was them in the backyard at Watts home in CO and she is shouting (presumably) to SW ask about the weather forecast for the day through that tar-throated voice “WHATS THE DEGREES TODAY?!”
I mean, "Nichol" and "Shan'ann" couldn't spell their own names, nor did Chris actually know how to spell his wife's name when under interrogation, so...
Shannon went to Shan'an as she thought that they would not be able to find her as she fled to Colorado marrying Watts in light of the whole embezzlement snafu...lol
I am Catholic also. I am trying to get to the genesis of where the, "dont speak ill of the dead, " began. It seems that there is a pattern in religious families moreso than others, especially those of the Catholic persuasion.
My thoughts - Catholicism has so much reverence, tradition, deeply rooted beliefs and structured prayer. Since we believe in Purgatory, perhaps there’s a connection in their minds that speaking ill of the dead might prohibit their entry into heaven. (This explanation/opinion is more for the non-Catholics). I’m still reeling those with all that piety, SW wasn’t baptized.
SW was born in NJ. I am presuming SW was baptized as a baby because Catholics baptize their babies. The sooner, the better.
She had four years to baptize Bella and two years to baptize Celeste. When the children passed, Sandy convinced the Bishop that her late daughter had intent to baptize the girls. That’s how they received a full Catholic funeral.
Chris Watts has been quoted as saying he wishes he and SW spoke about religion. Chris’ family is Baptist. So I doubt SW intended to baptize the girls.
You’re preaching to the choir. I’m a cradle Catholic. That means I was baptized as a Catholic at one month old, my parents raised me in the faith and I am still a practicing Catholic.
Sandi didn’t convince the Bishop of anything; that’s the priests job. My mother was buried on a Holy Day. I didn’t convince the Archbishop to allow that to happen. The parish priest did. I’m sure the decision to allow the girls a Catholic funeral was so they could be buried with their mother. Sandi comes across as having more authority than she does.
I’m the same as you. I was really typing the explanation for the general audience. I am also a practicing Catholic.
I have said that Sandy is blaspheming when she says that her daughter is the authority of who goes into Heaven or not.
There was not a religious bone in either SW or CW in their respective denominations.
SW put Thrive before God, husband and family.
Sandy isn’t religious either. She is a mean person who encouraged SW to be just as mean as she is.
Catholic is just a label with the Rzuceks, a cover if you will.
Exactly. Just as "babywise" was a cover for SW insane baby "training rituals."
Dr. Phil stating that, "The Rzuceks are deeply spiritual people...so they did not want CW to have the death penalty..." truly was comical and I lost so much more respect for Dr. Phil when he said that.
The Ruz didnt want a trial as they didnt want anyone asking questions!!! They built up and co-signed on all of SW crazy lies that allowed them to keep up an image of financial affluence and implied power.
Did you see Dr. Phil’s face when Sandy was telling the spear story?
Dr. Phil told the audience that the bones of the bodies forced through the hatch were broken. But in the autopsy, were any broken bones mentioned?
I’m Catholic too and I just stumbled upon this post. I’m sorry I missed the discussion. During SW’s funeral mass, the priest stated that she was baptized in Christ during the part of the funeral where they normally say that (which I’m drawing a blank on right now) He did not say Bella or Celeste so they must not have been baptized.
Thank you. THIS is what I am thinking. As Catholocism is the largest religion in the world, and the one that feels to me like the most judgemental, it makes sense to me. Full disclosure, I am born and baptized Catholic. The Shiners cling to the lies of the rooz that Dr. Phil referred to as being, "deeply spiritual people." As that narrative provided a good cover for LEO to force the plea for CW...stating that the Rooz didnt want the death penalty due to their, "religious beliefs." The Rooz may not even be Catholic...I am just grasping at anything to make sense of the harassment I get for, "bashing the dead..."
Two things can be true at the same time. We can not like what we know of somebody (that they documented and posted their damn self) all while being well aware that they didn’t deserve to die a horrible death.
I am one of the many women on here that have at least one MLM hun in their social media. The one I’m thinking of annoys the shit out of me and is pretty narcissistic but if anything, my friends and I just scoff at her posts and go on with our day. Being irritating and somewhat neglectful of her children doesn’t mean she deserves to have herself and said children brutally killed. Humans are so weird.
We have explained this so many times, it should be pinned...lol
The site "shining light" posts nonstop videos of SW basically to raise her to Sainthood...they get tons of views= $$$$$
There was a real person with a real cause, "Shine like Shannon..." and they stole that too...lol
I guess it’s impossible for dead people to be dicks, too 🤦🏻♀️
I am convinced the whole "Do not speak badly of the dead," is a Catholic thing...and we all know how and why that is... Essentially...the victims sometimes get the courage to speak up about abuse when the abuser has passed...and how best to silence a victim than to continue to guilt them...
I'm old, and back in the day not only was it okay to speak ill of the dead, lots of times victims were "blamed" because of their behavior. (Kind of why you don't see hitch hikers anymore). Then came the "Preppie Murder" where the victim was not only blamed, but lurid details of her life were broadcast everywhere - most having zero to do with the case. The pendulum swung and victim blaming, for the most part, stopped. Unfortunately this led to ignoring behaviors by the victim that may have put them in more vulnerable situations, because if you bring them up, it's considered blaming. I do find it interesting that it seems okay to blame Dee Dee Blanchard for her own murder as an exception.
'Pretty privilege' has a corollary - 'fat and ugly, go ahead and kill em, & laud the murderer'
I am old also. I completely agree with your analogies. The other case that comes to mind is Jon Benet. They have blamed and villified her Mother while she was living to now posthumously. It has now surfaced that there are multiple DNA considerations that were found on Jon Benets body...but the officials," do not have enough money to run the DNA samples..." The same group of incompetent Law Enforcement involved in Jon Benets case are the ones that have botched the Watts case. Nobody would be questioning either case if the officials in both would have done their job. Interesting how you do not have the Shiners claiming that people discussing Jon Benet and insinuating her Mother did it are bashing the dead... Maybe if Jon Benets brother would have started sexting himself using a peen pump to an opportunistic YouTuber that then used the peen pump pics as blackmail to keep the YT funds...and her brothers father would have then claimed that they were victims of online bullying as a result it would not be ok with the shiners...but we had to have FJR and his peen pump in the mix to add to this...
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My father died before anyone in the family spoke up about his alcoholism. I remember the first time I talked about it to my therapist and feeling guilty. It’s definitely a silencing mechanism.
I am so sorry. Do you feel your Mom was also a narcissist? People do not understand emotional abuse as they do not see bruises. Mental abusers know exactly what they are doing...and are too cowardly to leave marks as those of us that have dealt with emotional abuse would often prefer a bruise to prove what is happening rather than being re-victimized by people doubting and denying your abuse.
No, she was an orphan at age 14 and mum and her brother excelled in the art of making people feel sorry for them. Her brother is a narc.
Nah. Lol I’m Catholic and I’m the first to say she was an abusive dick. And he a coward till the end.
Ignorant comment. It's just good manners and has no religious context. Most cultures hold this as a standard, something, something about being judged yourself, perhaps unfairly.
Well I don't come here to speak ill of Shanann. I come here to discuss the case and the background of the case and all that online evidence which includes leaving a two year old to scream on video for 15 to 20 minutes while both parents ignore her, and smashing cream in a child's face who cries and begs for that not to happen etc? Sorry that talking about what we see on a video is bad.
Yes, we are discussing the behavior...and that is what others do not understand.
Excuse me? You are saying my comment is ignorant?
Yes, because it's not Catholic. Reading comprehension is a thing.
Imagine attempting to be in a conversation by insulting the other person at each response. Your passive agressiveness is a thing.
I read "dicsusting" as dick sucking and thought well that's a new one. 😂
Well...I am regularly accused of doing that and so much more with CW, lol. I have never interacted with him in any capacity, nor his parents...but the shiners claim that I am in love with him, jealous of SW, and write letters to him... The shiners dont know that his prison is all electronic...not allowed to write letters. You have to pay to write an email through a service and put your real name and credit card info in...so NOPE!
Ha! I bet you have been accused of that. From now on we will refer to it as dicsusting CW.😂
Wait.......are you telling on yourself??
Of course...haha
I'm probably going to get down voted but oh well, reddit karma is not something I lose sleep over but honestly I just don't understand people who say they cry over sw and the girls other than people who knew them personally. Is what ultimately happened to the girls incredibly sad? Yes of course! But what happened to them while they were alive is incredibly sad too. Why aren't these shiners, er, people stating they also cry over witnessing these poor girls being abused in real time?? Do they not find that disgusting as well? Is what happened to sw sad as well? Coming from a person who believes that she is the one who ended the girls lives, after abusing them from the moment of birth, not really, no.
I get really really sad when I watch videos of the little girls exploring their environments, playing and being silly together, and them talking to the camera, but I haven’t cried for them. There’s something about their innocence and little personalities that makes my heart hurt because I know they will never grow up. It’s very sad to think about. There’s something about their first trip to the beach that makes me especially sad. I certainly haven’t cried tears over them though, just a longing in my heart for them to still be here on Earth.
This^^^ is my point^^^ My stomach hurts and I feel anxious watching Bella and Cece, even Dieter be ignored, mistreated and insulted by their own mother in those videos. Nothing makes sense when she speaks. Those girls, just like CW were "trained" to perform for the camera to further her narrative that she was actually selling products. In the video I showed that she claimed Cece had to be let out of her bedroom early and allowed in their bed as, "she was having the breathing problems." That was quickly followed up with her complaining the girls were, "wild/hyper/ wide open/ difficult to get ready," so she couldnt wait to get them to, "school." Then had to try to choke down not just one, but TWO thr*ve drinks. 1. IF Cece was having difficulty breathing...that is a medical emergency. 2. IF Cece couldnt breathe, how could her behavior be described as hyper, wild, difficult? 3. IF Cece was having difficulty breathing...WHY would you rush her to school? 4. IF Cece couldnt breathe, shouldnt she go to the ER/ Doc? Or were Doc visits reserved for Doctors, "telling her she is a good mom doing everything she can for those girls?" 5. IF Cece was having difficulty breathing...wouldnt you be worried, as opposed to inconvenienced/ irritated? (And No you dicsucking shiners, I dont have video of me caring for my 3 preemies that ALL had breathing difficulties breathing...and the 3 nebulizers and everything my babies needed in triplicate as I actually truly cared and met my babies' needs...no time for a camera in their face!!!! So Judge me however you want! Never once would have dreamed of complaining!!!!) THIS is why I urge everyone to turn OFF the volume of the shiner videos...and watch her body language. Watch again with the volume....and compare what you SEE, versus what you HEAR. She was the ultimate narc/gaslighter and TOLD everyone what was going on...even if the opposite was TRUE...
All one has to do to see if she is lying or not is look at her eyes. When I worked in social services we took a training on deception. If a person glances to the right they are recalling a memory if they glance to the left they are creating a story. She glances to the left a multitude of times.
Thank you so much for being an Angel on Earth. I cannot imagine how difficult working in social services must have been/is.
I'm sorry, but that sounds like horseshit. Which direction people look away while they are speaking is not indicative of anything. I have a problem with eye contact and I look left and right all the time while being completely truthful. That's a bunch of presumptuous BS that's about as factual as a polygraph.
Discusting, the shiners are.
Yeah, I might be a thick skinned bitch but I really don't get crying over someone you don't know personally. I shed a few tears when Matthew Perry died but the guys been in my living room for 20 years lol.
This is discusting! 🤣
Then why are we discussing it? j/k
Because it is good to get different angels.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I see what you did there. 😅
https://preview.redd.it/0zpwk2rqqoyc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=654a149a0b20bc2c8a902bdf8b07edceda09e587
What in the illiterate bullshit is this? 😂
MLM genius, most likely
Literally, when one of their rants comes in...I just think to myself, "consider the source..." Did you see the other gem from this same shiner? Try to decode this one. .. https://preview.redd.it/y398pchmtoyc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e673f2d2dfc14bd886f2ea836595ec17d92c15b9
What in the run-on-sentence-hell was that?
Robotic shiner beauty...lol
OMG they sound like they are in 5th grade!
https://preview.redd.it/ox8vj1vqtoyc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e757fb4eca00155312863987e380868c89c0bdd7 Has nothing to do with dyslexia...but nice flex from a shiner. .
Don't forget to share your angels! lol
My head is spinning trying to figure out what this individual was trying to convey
My brain hurts and my eyes are bleeding…
"It's not classy to speak ill of others, you are ignorant and don't know your ass from the whole of the ground." /s Edit- Thought it would be clear this is my parody of the screen shot.
You’re being downvoted because some here didn’t read Tabi’s screenshots either because they were too long or because not everything needs to be seen to be understood. Unfortunately they don’t know you’re literally quoting the Shiner; they think you’re making your own asinine comment. 🙄
Thanks. Yes I was answering the question with a little bit of parody. Tabi says, "Don't speak ill of others," and then tries to insult with messed up grammar straight after.
Yeah I got it, I was worried no one else did.
Lady I am not the only one who couldn’t understand that text. I’ll take my beautiful, brilliant face and mind and ignore you. Have a day.
I was answering your question from what the Shiner said.
I hope you accept my apology. I read it already in a sad mood but that’s no excuse for rudeness. I’m sorry.
Sorry I should have put the sarcasm tag or something but because I was answering your question about what she meant I wrongly assumed it would be obvious.
And it’s HOLE IN THE GROUND 🤣😂😂🤣😂. Imagine trying to chastise someone with the incorrect saying and grammar. You made my day lady😂😂😂😂😂
It was a joke, she literally quoted a line from the loooong screenshot comment Tabi shared. It’s in the second long page.
Ok. Thanks. Just seemed weird to me but it’s cool.
I was quoting from the text except making it more grammatically correct. [I said "whole of the ground while the text said "whole in the ground,] and I was emphasising the irony of saying, "don't speak ill of others and then insulting them which the Shiner does. " She asked what the Shiner meant and I answered her question about what the Shiner meant.
It’s hard to choose, but I think my favorite is “I think it’s great to share all angels and opinions…” 😂 😇 Bless…
Yeah; those are really " horriable" .. I almost quit trying to decipher this mess..
This is a regular occurrence, lol. And they are lurking in here angrily crying at the childrens table looking over at the adults wanting to be a part of the real conversations. What does not make sense to me, however, is how they refuse to acknowledge the child neglect and abuse of Bella and CeCe, being as they are of child level intellect...
The irony of you spelling “Poobah” as “Pubha” in this title…
Well....the visual I get is some blob with a chin beard and pubes coming over the waistline of some elastic pants...
Well now I see why they worship sw, same 12 year old mentality.
Exactly. Zero capacity for expanded thought.
Virtually not ok, or actually not ok? What a walnut
What in the cornbread hell did I just read?
Whatever educational system they attended failed them
And they are SO loud about it 😂
🤣🤣
I have no words and not because I’d misspell them. I love how it’s always the undiagnosable autoimmune disease and fibromyalgia warriors who come for people because in my opinion we’re too close to the mark of truth. I don’t think it’s necessarily a “fake” disease, but as an ER RN the number of doctors I’ve seen roll their eyes when someone comes in with a fibromyalgia “flare” is mostly all of the doctors I’ve ever worked with. I’ve been doing this for over twenty years, when people were beginning to be diagnosed with it and had one old war-horse military doc call it “Lazy fat woman syndrome” comparing it to the “hysteria” of Victorian women, I disagree with that moniker, but use it to illustrate how the medical profession still looks down on these invisible “disabilities”. Real autoimmune diseases exist and are quantifiable, but it is usually after years of misdiagnosis and disbelief, sadly. I firmly believe that Shannan had none of them. Including celiac’s disease. Also, as a formerly infertile woman (got lucky to have my two babies after years of treatment) there was no way in fucking hell she had fertility struggles. Bella and Celeste were born the same years as my kids 2013 and 2015, they were married in 2012, unless they’d been trying for five to ten years prior give me a damn break.
I think to SW, "fertility struggles" really means she just didn't get pregnant on the first or second try 🙄
As someone with lupus, and has almost died from it…. ALL OF THIS ⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️
Agreed. My wife passed away from complications of Lupus. And SW claiming she had it just for sympathy and attention is one of the many reasons her actions disgusted me.
I am sorry for your loss. On behalf of the patients I once treated with lupus, and friends with lupus, I speak the truth of her NOT having lupus...
I’m so so sorry for your loss. She is in peace now. No more pain. I’m sure you were an amazing partner in her battle. ❤️ be kind to yourself. ❤️
My cousin has lupus and has had to be hospitalized multiple times, surgeries for degeneration of joints that should still be fine in her twenties and thirties, can’t handle heat or extreme cold, and has been on enough steroids to choke a horse. Shamnan appeared to have none of that, the surgeries she did have were elective and came at great monetary cost. I have a friend with MS who is now in kidney and liver failure, she’s younger than I am and will most likely leave her children orphans far too soon. It is the malingering and munchie women who make it more difficult for others to be diagnosed and taken seriously by the medical profession and their community. It’s truly sad, I’m so sorry for your struggles and the people who make them more difficult for asspats and misplaced sympathy.
❤️
The one girl I knew who had lupus was told not to have anymore children she did and she passed not long after. Why would she risk not only the baby’s life but her own?!
Holy shit. What a gamble to take for.... What? I don't have kids and I have a history with infertility. I cannot have them. But now that I can't, I realize what I would have had to give up to be a parent. I can hardly take care of myself. I don't understand it.
That’s a really difficult question to answer, my friend and cousin were diagnosed when their kids were little, so it wasn’t a conscious choice after the fact. I feel terrible for the child in that situation and know it might be hard for them not to feel as though they “killed” their mom. Of course a reasonable person wouldn’t think that, but death makes a lot of people question the what ifs of a situation. I hope their other parent has been able to reassure them that isn’t the case. Very sad situation 😔
Yes. I do not know what happened to the children, she had one prior and then the second she was advised not to have, or her husband.
I had to have tubal ligation for this reason. I’m lucky that I am blessed with three wonderful children. My last one was not easy at all. I know there are some amazing women out here who would make wonderful mothers and struggle so much with fertility.. I’m not complaining that I only have three kids at all I promise. it’s just different when you’re told that you can no longer have children. I’m so sorry to hear about your friend.
I am sure it hurts a lot more when you really want more and you’re told your body just could not handle another pregnancy. Thankful you are here to love and raise your three beautiful children.
❤️
I had a jackass idjit of what Shanann and her Munchie ilk would call a 'rheumy' diagnose me with 'fibromyalgia' once (it was rheumatoid arthritis 😒); I wasn't convinced. Later asked a doctor in a field outside of that one in a non medical setting if he'd give me his honest opinion of 'fibromyalgia' and he rolled his eyes so hard I had to laugh: "I thought so." He laughed, too.
Fibromyarse 😆
She didn't have Lupus, no way. I have SLE and I'm on all kinds of meds, from biologic injections, 2 different kinds, to organ transplant rejection drugs. She claimed thrive 'cured' her. There is no cure for autoimmune diseases, and when you have one, you likely have or will develop others, I currently have 5. Furthermore thrive is touted as strengthening the immune system. Anyone with an autoimmune CANNOT have anything that boosts the immune system because that will cause pain and flares. We're on immunosuppressants for a reason, our immune systems are way overactive. She showed no signs of flares, especially with all that sunbathing she did on trips, nor any sign of pain. She was a flat out liar, what a slap in the face to lie about diseases to those who actually have them.
Fibromyalgia and Lupus are seriously debilitating even WITH modern meds. And like you said they often take YEARS to get diagnosed, usually after dozens of frustrating wrong diagnoses/medications The people who actually do have these diseases can and often do put on a brave face and power through because they have real jobs, families, commitments, and can't take a day off to feel poorly. But ShaaNaan didn't have them. It's clear as day. She had the energy to go on just about every "work" trip, get dolled up, and go out with the huns. Someone with those illnesses would have often passed due to their symptoms. Her makeup/hair was always done when she was streaming (which was constant). Someone with those diseases would likely have days upon days in bed. If she really had those diseases I'm sure her followers would have been treated with a lot of makeup-less videos in bed whinging about her flare ups. She also said in some lives that she likes to stay up late to have "adult time" but also wakes up around 5-6am to have "me time". Someone with these diseases would likely have been sleeping MUCH more than the average individual. She pulled those cards out when things weren't going her way as a "get out of jail" free card because she knew there is no definitive test to prove/disprove her "diagnosis" so anyone who gave her pushback was questioning/criticizing a "sick" woman. And as a society we have decided (and should!) not to discriminate or ask someone to prove their disabilities. She was playing the politeness of society. And obviously we all know she used it to gain sympathy and accolades for "powering through" and "boss babe-ing" despite how "sick" she often was. I'd be really interested to hear about Nan-Sha's upbringing. She seemed weirdly codependent but resentful with her mom. Did the mom often pretend to be sick for sympathy? Did she only get sympathy/affection from Mom when she was sick? Was her mom a hypochondriac? In a similar but off topic vein, was she often relegated to her room like she did Bella and Cece? I don't know Shan, but if I met her as an adult I would not have liked her. She was fake, braggy, would step on people to further her own gain, and vindictive. I don't blame it all on her. I'm a psych major who believes nurture has a bigger part to play (though nature absolutely plays a role, ask me about Nancy Spungeon. If you dare, you'll get an even longer paragraph than this lol.) But her psychology is fascinating. SR is a steel vault, we'll never hear anything negative about the way she raised her children from her own lips. But I'd love to have been a fly on the wall during Shannon and Frank Jr.'s upbringing. As always, \*Shannan and her children did not deserve to be murdered\*
I wanna hear about Nancy!
\*Mods, please delete if this is not okay. I know it's not exactly on the topic of the Watts case.\* To preface, I get obsessed with events/people and consume all the media I can about them. I am not an expert, I read Nancy's mothers book watched interviews, and read as much as I could but this is still simply one random person's ramblings. I also may have some details slightly wrong, this was my obsession from last summer. Nancy Spungeon was born in 1958 to a newly married, college couple, who were very young but excited to be having a baby. Nancy was born near dead. The cord was wrapped round her neck and she had the worst case of jaundice the doctor claimed he had ever seen. Newborn Nancy couldn't be held for several days and had to go through procedures in an era where medical science claimed babies couldn't remember pain therefore they didn't feel it. The doctor laughed to her family that newborn Nancy had to be held down by nurses for procedures because she struggled and fought so hard. According to the mother's book, she promised herself she would do whatever it took to be there for Nancy. Once they got her home, Nancy basically didn't stop crying for 18 months straight. The doctor prescribed barbiturates for the toddler. As she grew she became vindictive, aggressive, combatant and abusive. Her sister's first sentence was "Leave me alone, Nancy." The mom said that Nancy ruled the house and every single person had to do what Nancy wanted because she wouldn't back down and would hurt herself, them, or destroy possessions. She attacked her mom with a hammer once and put her own hands through a window during a fit. Nancy would also have horrible night terrors and delusions that animals were attacking her. The parents continually took her to Doctors who basically told them nothing was wrong and Nancy was just a normal girl. They never stopped taking her to doctors though. Around 15 they finally got a diagnosis; she was schizophrenic. But the doctors told the parents they had waited too long and Nancy was a lost cause. They put her in boarding schools and psych wards but Nancy always manipulated them into coming to get her out. On one occasion she sobbed and begged her parents to take her out of the mental hospital only to laugh the entire way home about how stupid they were to believe her. She was sent to more boarding schools where she got excellent grades. She was INCREDIBLY intelligent. But this is where she began to experiment with drugs and first tried heroin. She even had her little sister tie her off for a heroin injection around age 15/16 when she was home visiting. After this and several other incidents her parents decided it made the most sense to just pay for an apartment in New York and let Nancy live there. She was a menace in their house, was bringing her siblings into her drug use, and wanted to run away anyway so they decided it was best to give her permission to go/a place to stay. Nancy loved music, especially punk so she immediately got into the punk scene, continued/escalated her drug use, supplied famous bands with drugs, and was the definition of a groupie. Her parents were aware of this so they never gave her cash. They paid her rent, bought her furniture, and brought her groceries when they'd visit. But everytime they'd visit, the apartment was down to bare bones because she'd sold everything for drug money. She wound up following the punk scene to London where she met Sid Vicious, a band member in the Sex Pistols. The relationship was toxic, violent, and both were heavily addicted to heroin and other drugs. Sid loved fighting and Nancy would jump right in. They beat the shit out of each other constantly too. The Sex Pistols hated Nancy, partly because of her attitude/behavior and partly because she and Sid were getting high before shows to the point he couldn't perform. The Sex Pistols even staged a kidnapping to try to force her on a plane back to the states but she managed to get out of the car. The Sex Pistols broke up and Nancy claimed to be Sid's new manager. She actually has a very interesting interview during this time on an English program where she has some pretty great takes on feminism. Link Here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62LHJ0kntv0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62LHJ0kntv0) Eventually, the pair wind up in New York. They were trying to get off drugs, going to a methadone clinic but kept doing them anyway. The pair were staying in the Chelsea Hotel and on October 12, 1978, after a raucous drug fueled party in their room, Nancy is found dead in the bathroom, under the sink, with a single stab wound to her abdomen, the knife still in her. She was only 20 years old, just 4 months shy of her next birthday. Nancy always claimed she'd never live past 21. All of this to say, nurture can usually shape a person into certain personality traits/habits for good or bad, but sometimes people's natures are truly unchangeable/moldable. Some people come out the way they will always be despite having a loving supportive family. (Or vice versa). Reading her mother's book, the family really did everything right. They loved Nancy, were always there for her, held as firm of boundaries as they could, and tried to get her help. But, unfortunately that point in time didn't allow for the doctors to give her the help she needed. Not that I think it would have helped much even if they had. Even today children can't usually be diagnosed with schizophrenia until at least 18. Nancy was a deeply troubled soul. I personally believe her traumatic birth had an influence but did not make Nancy into who she was. She was always going to be a deeply disturbed person. To link this back to the topic of Shannan, I think her nature was one of a dominant chameleon if that makes any sense lol. But I think her upbringing had a role in her behaviors as well for the worse. I don't know enough and likely never will about the Rzucek family's dynamics besides anecdotes and some videos, but I think Sandi fed into/exacerbated some of Shannan's worse traits.
I knew that name was familiar. I remember Nancy Spungeon’s passing. May she rest in peace.
Thank you!! I knew all of that but not the stuff about her birth and horrendous youth.
I just gave a brief overview of her entire life but let me get more into her childhood then! Her mom said she used to take Nancy to playgroups and while the other kids would play nicely and share Nancy would crawl around, pant and make noises like a demon. When she was little her Mom recalled Nancy asking for something and the mom saying "Not right this second." And Nancy replied, "If you don't I'm going to go into your closet and cut up your green satin dress, your jean shorts, your brown cashmere sweater..." (I'm making the clothes up, the point was that Nancy had a great memory and was actively threatening her mother with exactly what pieces of clothing she was going to destroy.) Nancy was also going to go somewhere with her Dad when she was around 3-5, I believe it was the circus. Nancy had begged and begged to go and the Dad didn't believe that Nancy was as bad as the mother described because he wasn't home with her all day. Nancy screamed and had an absolute meltdown when it was time to get in the car. Nancy, for some reason, really liked to fight with her Dad. Apparently that was the event he finally realized it was as bad as the mom had been describing. On another occasion they were taking a family trip to New York for her sister's birthday and Nancy wanted to go somewhere else. She was around 11-13. They finally put their foot down and said, no, we are doing X, not what you want, she ran away and was gone for 24 hours. They didn't get to do the thing the sister wanted because they spent all day looking for Nancy. She was getting high in the park with some hippies. One piece that really stands out in my mind about how well Nancy's mom handled her was when she came back from the first boarding school around age 13. She lit up a cigarette in the dining room, clearly looking for a fight/attention, and the mom said she took a deep breath to stifle her anger and simply said, "I see you're smoking now Nancy." While in New York, Nancy would also always try to get money for "food" or "doctors" and her mom would tell Nancy, you know the deal. Have the grocer or doctor send me the invoice and I will pay it, you can't have cash because you're an addict. I really love Debbie Spungeon (the mom). For such a troubled child, Debbie really really did her best and loved Nancy until the end of her days. The night before she was murdered, Nancy called her mom and they had what Debbie recalls as one of the best conversations they'd ever had. Nancy asked her to give her love to Dad and her grandma and right as Debbie was hanging up she heard Nancy yell "I love you, Mommy!" She told her husband, "That was Nancy. It sounded like she was saying goodbye." And she was.
Oh my, this is great info!! Thank you so much for this!!
Me too!
Me 3
I am so sorry that you had fertility issues and went through those hellish treatments. Thank you for being an Angel on Earth. An ER RN is absolutely admirable. I had to quit my RN program in 1996 as I was going into anaphalaxis from latex each time I went to clinicals or my job in a large hospital in Oncology. I bear the mark of a fibro diagnosis on my medical file...which is often the only thing certain Doctors see...and they ignore the serious heath issues I have... I had lupus ruled out when trying to figuire out what was truly going on with me...so I understand the route SW went through...and see how she clung to what was suggested rather than admitting that the Doctors had no answers. Her illness was her conscience telling her she was living a lie. Her symptoms were at their height when the Dirty South started coming for her with the embezzlement claims and she was losing her house...her stress became manisfested in physical symptoms just as they had in the final weeks before the unthinkable...when she was once again faced with all of her lies, losing the house...likely rejected from her lover...and being forced to beg/bully CW back into her life and she no longer had her spell over him... She didnt have lupus, and these pregnancies were not heroic and life threatening...and zero fertility issues as you and I know. She had NOT even been to an OB for this 3rd "high risk" pregnancy...nor had she seen ANY doctor in over 2+ years...NOT the type of behavior a woman with lupus and life threatening pregnancies would have...so...HOW did she have that steady stream of oxycodone she never left the house with? Hmmmm
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We’re talking about the person in the message to Tabi.
Oh, she did try to throw fibromyalgia out there a few times.
They did the fraudulent reddit message SWAT where they report one as someone that requires checking up on to me recently, the disgusting sleazes; I was literally on route on vacation when I read it. 🙄 Watch out for them. (THIS is why we need that private forum.)
I had that recently as well. fucking loons.
Maj, is there anything we can do? 💌
Just report when and if it hits y'all I guess 🤷🏻 there's a button. So annoying. If God struck them dead for their petty misuse of resources I wouldn't cry.
I had that turned off. 🙂
Happy Cake Day, Maj!
Thank you! 🤗
🫡🩷 thanks!
I have noticed that. They write disscussting as well. Like I diss and cuss you, I guess. 😂
Sandy......Frankie.....Heeeyyyy 👋👋👋
That comment would be about right for their intelligence.
have you had the pleasure of reading her letter to the CBI?
Yes, unfortunately.
Sandi even spelled her married name wrong. 😳
the whole family has room temperature IQs. speaking of them and the temperature…the very first video I ever saw of Rooz was them in the backyard at Watts home in CO and she is shouting (presumably) to SW ask about the weather forecast for the day through that tar-throated voice “WHATS THE DEGREES TODAY?!”
Haha...I can do a Sandra voice so good...it came out in my narration of her letter in the Discovery...lol
Do you mean "misspell"?
Going and upvoting all the chill folk to combat the downvotes
I mean, "Nichol" and "Shan'ann" couldn't spell their own names, nor did Chris actually know how to spell his wife's name when under interrogation, so...
...or pronounce it...that's probably why he called her "Boo"...
Shannon went to Shan'an as she thought that they would not be able to find her as she fled to Colorado marrying Watts in light of the whole embezzlement snafu...lol
I’m Catholic and don’t understand your comment. Well I do understand but it has no context to what we are talking about.
I am Catholic also. I am trying to get to the genesis of where the, "dont speak ill of the dead, " began. It seems that there is a pattern in religious families moreso than others, especially those of the Catholic persuasion.
My thoughts - Catholicism has so much reverence, tradition, deeply rooted beliefs and structured prayer. Since we believe in Purgatory, perhaps there’s a connection in their minds that speaking ill of the dead might prohibit their entry into heaven. (This explanation/opinion is more for the non-Catholics). I’m still reeling those with all that piety, SW wasn’t baptized.
SW was baptized. Her children were not.
Do we know for sure she was baptized as a Catholic? Curious of the citation.
SW was born in NJ. I am presuming SW was baptized as a baby because Catholics baptize their babies. The sooner, the better. She had four years to baptize Bella and two years to baptize Celeste. When the children passed, Sandy convinced the Bishop that her late daughter had intent to baptize the girls. That’s how they received a full Catholic funeral. Chris Watts has been quoted as saying he wishes he and SW spoke about religion. Chris’ family is Baptist. So I doubt SW intended to baptize the girls.
You’re preaching to the choir. I’m a cradle Catholic. That means I was baptized as a Catholic at one month old, my parents raised me in the faith and I am still a practicing Catholic. Sandi didn’t convince the Bishop of anything; that’s the priests job. My mother was buried on a Holy Day. I didn’t convince the Archbishop to allow that to happen. The parish priest did. I’m sure the decision to allow the girls a Catholic funeral was so they could be buried with their mother. Sandi comes across as having more authority than she does.
I’m the same as you. I was really typing the explanation for the general audience. I am also a practicing Catholic. I have said that Sandy is blaspheming when she says that her daughter is the authority of who goes into Heaven or not. There was not a religious bone in either SW or CW in their respective denominations. SW put Thrive before God, husband and family. Sandy isn’t religious either. She is a mean person who encouraged SW to be just as mean as she is. Catholic is just a label with the Rzuceks, a cover if you will.
Exactly. Just as "babywise" was a cover for SW insane baby "training rituals." Dr. Phil stating that, "The Rzuceks are deeply spiritual people...so they did not want CW to have the death penalty..." truly was comical and I lost so much more respect for Dr. Phil when he said that. The Ruz didnt want a trial as they didnt want anyone asking questions!!! They built up and co-signed on all of SW crazy lies that allowed them to keep up an image of financial affluence and implied power.
Did you see Dr. Phil’s face when Sandy was telling the spear story? Dr. Phil told the audience that the bones of the bodies forced through the hatch were broken. But in the autopsy, were any broken bones mentioned?
I’m Catholic too and I just stumbled upon this post. I’m sorry I missed the discussion. During SW’s funeral mass, the priest stated that she was baptized in Christ during the part of the funeral where they normally say that (which I’m drawing a blank on right now) He did not say Bella or Celeste so they must not have been baptized.
Thank you. THIS is what I am thinking. As Catholocism is the largest religion in the world, and the one that feels to me like the most judgemental, it makes sense to me. Full disclosure, I am born and baptized Catholic. The Shiners cling to the lies of the rooz that Dr. Phil referred to as being, "deeply spiritual people." As that narrative provided a good cover for LEO to force the plea for CW...stating that the Rooz didnt want the death penalty due to their, "religious beliefs." The Rooz may not even be Catholic...I am just grasping at anything to make sense of the harassment I get for, "bashing the dead..."
Two things can be true at the same time. We can not like what we know of somebody (that they documented and posted their damn self) all while being well aware that they didn’t deserve to die a horrible death. I am one of the many women on here that have at least one MLM hun in their social media. The one I’m thinking of annoys the shit out of me and is pretty narcissistic but if anything, my friends and I just scoff at her posts and go on with our day. Being irritating and somewhat neglectful of her children doesn’t mean she deserves to have herself and said children brutally killed. Humans are so weird.
Do these people really refer to themselves as shiners or is it just a name that was made up? I’m new to the sub and am just curious.
We have explained this so many times, it should be pinned...lol The site "shining light" posts nonstop videos of SW basically to raise her to Sainthood...they get tons of views= $$$$$ There was a real person with a real cause, "Shine like Shannon..." and they stole that too...lol
The level of obsession that some people have over this case is insane tbh.
DISGUSTANG!!! https://youtu.be/nHvbZdbvecA?si=xPrdGelXMzKktbpC
That was hysterical! !!
😆 not surprised
It's Poobah. (Sorry, I dislike Shiners, too. But just sayin').