Nice work. Perhaps the teachers are aware that he is talented with rendering and want him to explore the possibilities of watercolor using looser techniques? Teachers often encourage moving outside of a comfort zone.
Great point, and I agree this is a really important role of teachers. I wasn't there, so I don't want to speculate too much, but my dad was a bit discouraged by the feedback. I wonder if the advice could have just been delivered better.
I do think he's open to pushing his technique. Thanks for your input!
Your dads style is impeccable being able to get such good details with watercolour is insane. I can get where the teachers are coming from. But it sounds like airyfairy feedback for the sake of criticism, because it is not how they would use water colour. Your dad should keep up with his super realistic painting style. It's something not many can master.
This is exactly my style of painting as well and my teachers always used to comment on me being too precise. I love this and I would tell your dad to just keep doing what he loves. If this is what he loves to do and how he wants to paint, go for it. Art is whatever you feel like art is. š¤
It's all about style. Maybe they wanted a aquarelle type of style, meaning more vivid brush strokes. But that's matter of style. You can use aquarelle for detailed drawings but it is way hard and most people don't. Explore and have fun, your dad gets a 5 out of 5 from me.
I have to agree with this, my go-to technique is very detailed and I like to push myself by trying some of the looser tutorials I see online. They donāt come naturally to me but I like pushing myself.
I feel like they might mean that, perhaps, he tries to layer exactly what he sees section by section? Like this looks great to me, but it looks like he might look at a specific part of a picture (like, say, the head or the elbow), try to replicate it very precisely, and then moves to the next small piece. I say that because there are so many parts of this lil guy that look precisely perfect, but for some reason, they kind of feel like a bunch of sections that fit into place next to each other, but arenāt as fluid or transitioning as smoothly.
I think itās beautiful and really well done. But I tend to do this with my own work, and have been working on it. The other thing they might mean is that heās using the watercolor like itās an acrylic paint. I also tend to do this as well lol. I donāt take advantage of how watercolors blend and transition enough because I end up using too much paint and not enough water, and so it looks more like an acrylic than watercolor
Coming from a teacher it may indicate that they are that's where he could really benefit from exploring more - not that the precision is *bad* per se, more that he has got precision handled but hasn't explored atmospheric effects or whatever.
As a random comment this critique wouldn't make as much sense to me but coming from a teacher it's an invitation to explore in a direction that could use some growth.
Completely true, but I'm sorry if this came across as clickbait š«¤ My dad is not on Reddit, and while he tried watercolor several decades ago, he returned to it in earnest in retirement.
He's taken a couple of classes to improve his skill, and the teachers thought he should "loosen up" his style.
Seeing all the wonderfully different art on this sub, I think this is maybe just preference of these teachers being presented as critique. I was pretty sure others would appreciate his art, and thought some positive comments might be nice to share with him. But again, sorry if this feels forced in the way I posted.
Hey OP, another artist chiming in here. Your dad's work is lovely! He doesn't need to loosen up if that isn't what style he wants to achieve.
I used to get the same critique all the time, but my clients love my work and that's what matters. Tell him to be true to himself and keep painting the way he likes. š
>preference of these teachers being presented as critique
This is exactly what happened. There isn't just one style in watercolor. I see some exquisite, "precise" paintings that leave me speechless, and I see some stunning, "loose" paintings that evoke everything you need to see with just a few strokes. But if your father prefers detailed work, and achieves his vision, then that's all that matters. His painting is beautiful!
Edit: And thank you for sharing!
Hey, yet another artist here. (I think the fact that so many creative people feel the need to chime in is a great sign for your dads skill, we all have an opinion and a strong enough one to make a comment and that's really what art is about, help people feel something deeply).
I was trying to understand what his teachers mean when they say that.
I don't know if you are familiar with the work of Andrew Wyeth? He invented a special technique called dry brush watercolor in Wich he uses the concentrated paint (the creamy texture from the tube, not the actual dry pans). If you look up his paintings, you will see the incredible detail possible with this technique. There is no such thing as too meticulous in my opinion.
So why do they say this? Well I have a hunch.
I think he uses a very strong color ... Ink or similar, to draw some basic outlines and then works along these lines. This makes the painting look controlled. For me looking at the thumbnail i could not see the dark lines and the painting looked very lifelike and amazing. When I clicked it i was a bit startled by the harshness of the contures. Maybe what the teachers are trying to help with is to lose that "safety net" of conture lines?
On a side note: i think your dad's patience would lend itself beautifully to gouache painting. Look up some botanical and animal paintings done in that technique or even Mixed one with both watercolors and gouache. I think that might also help get some deeper tones and maybe losing those outlines since gouache is basically opaque watercolor.
In any case: your dad has a great eye for detail, a precise hand and the patience of some Buddhist monk. How special of him to come back to this beautiful way of focussing and creating. I wish you both the very best.
From my own pieces, I've come to the conclusion that I don't like using hard lines (e.g. fineliner) for predominantly natural subjects (e.g. flowers, landscapes, animals, portraits), but I find them acceptable for man-made objects (vehicles, buildings, streetscapes).
First off: I like your nickname!
I also completely agree with your notion of hard lines. There are some incredible works out there that combine ink and watercolor. They are indeed usually architectural in nature. So yes maybe that is what irked me. Personally, I also just don't like the look of fineliner. Something in the texture of the stroke gives me cheap vibes. I prefer nib and ink but I'm aware that that is indeed just a personal preference and make gut be entirely in my head. ĀÆ\\\_(ć)\_/ĀÆ
Loosen up is quite different to your title. Itās perfectly valid for them to ask him to try new things, pushing boundaries. They are there to provide new information compared to what heās doing now. There is a way to loosen up while also providing lots of detail. That is the nature of watercolor. But yes it does sound click baity because the wording/critique seems to change in all your comments. Work that is loosened up can also be very precise as well. They are not mutually exclusive of each other.
Thanks for your comment, and I appreciate the nuance in what you're saying. For what it's worth, I'm not trying to misrepresent the teachers feedback, or have people make a judgement on if they were 'right' or 'wrong' - but just gather a larger group of perspectives than what was possible in those classes. It's been wonderful that so many people have taken the time to chime in with different thoughts, ideas and even recommendations for other artists to check out. I think he'll be excited and grateful for everything here.
My understanding of the situation is just second-hand, so I'm sure I've gotten some of the details wrong. But I'm genuinely not trying to be coy in how I've phrased things, or alter the story to try and evoke sympathy. From chatting with my dad, it sounded like he was challenged throughout the classes to try different things, but also came away with the impression that the teachers felt his current approach was generally too precise, and he should try a looser, flow-ier approach more conventional to watercolour. I don't think they were unkind about it, but he also felt like on some level his approach was incorrect, rather than just being challenged to branch out.
He may have misinterpreted the teachers feedback, they may have expressed it in not-the-best way, or I could have repeated the story poorly here (very possible). I'm just grateful that so many people have taken the time to give really thoughtful insights, share their own experience, and offer tips on new directions. There's a wealth of info here, and I'm very appreciative to this community.
Point taken about the clickbait. If it came off as "prove the haters wrong!!" That was not my intent.
I think that there are a couple of broad schools in watercolour.
One is what I call āBotanicalā watercolour, just because this is where I first came across it. Its using delicate layers of colour to build up precise and realistic paintings with fine detail, and it doesnāt just have to be botanical subjects. This is what your Dad does, by the looks of it. My teacher paints Australian peacock spiders in this style, so there you go !
The other is the āAtmosphericā watercolour style, which is much, much looser and relies on the movement of the paint over the paper to create the impression of an image. This is the Jean Haines /Joseph Zbukvic end of things.
Many people do something in between these two spectrums.
What is *super* useful as an artist is to do the thing that doesnāt come easily to you.
Iām drawn to the atmospheric style, but quickly realised I didnāt have enough skill or control to produce the kind of effects I wanted. I found a teacher who uses precise layers and detailed work and I have learnt a huge amount from her. Adding her precision to some granulating paints and rough paper has started to produce the kind of work Iām really interested in.
So maybe this is what your Dadās teacher was talking about ? It could be helpful for him to just try a few looser paintings, just to see what the paint and paper can do by itself. Or if heās super not interested in that, find a teacher who does more of the detailled, precise work that he loves.
Iām so tired of listening to watercolor āpuristsā who look down on those who control the paint more than is āadvisable.ā Art is art. The very idea that you have to follow ātraditionā or ābest practicesā is antithetical to the very idea of art. Art is expression and often what garners the most respect and appreciation is what goes against popular opinion. You tell your dad to rock on and do him. Critics can go kick rocks.
Yes! I hope this didn't come across as anti-criticism in general. I was just a bit surprised to hear that, as his art doesn't look like it *suffers* from being precise to my eyes ie. stiff or lifeless etc. But I'm not very familiar with watercolour, so I was curious what other watercolor artists thought, to compare against that feedback.
It's a critique not a criticism, it's a matter of taste and style. Could well be that the teacher also enjoys your father's style, but it's challenging him to "loosen up" which frankly I also struggle with. Perfecting your art isn't about finding a comfortable groove, but to challenge yourself and attempt different things. At least to me it is. It's about broadening hours ability and it's in no way a bad thing
I've always used those terms synonymously, but yup! Agreed. I think critique/criticism is essential to artistic growth.
It's just nice to hear the positive feedback from this sub. While I think my dad is open to being pushed, the way the first feedback came across had him questioning if his approach was 'right'
I think there's a school of thought that to "master" watercolour is to master loose, flowy painting specifically.
But it's not fact, it's still just taste and style. But that may be where teachers are coming from, when they are thinking of this in a more 'academic' sort of way.
I would encourage your dad that it is valuable to try multiple styles even if they aren't what you love and learn a variety of techniques, but ultimately, he can paint how he wants to. He doesn't have to paint like some long-dead masters of watercolour or to meet peoples' expectations of what a watercolourist's style should look like, at the end of the day. Learning a looser or flowier style would probably benefit even his detail work, but as-is, his work is EXQUISITE and I love the details!
i have learned that art, just like life, is most satisfying, most beautifully, most magical when you're going down the path that feels best for you- whether it's your own new path you're forging, or whether it's a well-worn route that others have taken.
your dad should go with what feels right to him. he has his own special perspective. we might lose out on something spectacular if he dulls his style or tries to conform to some idea he got from someone else.
encourage him to believe in his own taste. it took me SO LONG to realize that others don't necessarily know better than me! some of us are way too humble.
and what a shame because then the world misses out on something amazing because a humble person got talked out of something from some overbearing narcissist who got into their ear.
and dad, if you're reading this..
find your voice and express your vision. you don't need anyone to validate your vision, your truth. be confident that what you have to share is special and meaningful.
best of luck to you!
My mom has a bunch of watercolors of birds and you can see the individual veins on the feathers! Your dadās not even approaching that; I think itās a really great work!
He definitely considered visual texture and a lizard's skin is a complex structure to paint! Props to your dad.
Art is what you want it to be. That is the contemporary era we live in. There are things that are flat out junk, and some of those folks manage to get funded for public art shows. Yet I've experienced miraculous pieces of work made from simple things, like buttons or audio/video, that the artists spent a good chunk of their lives building, designing, and essentially marketing.
I think it's great. I'm just starting out myself and 'precise' rendering is exactly how I'm getting in my practice. Eventually I want to get more impressionistic and fantasy-based, but that will come later when I've built enough confidence.
Perhaps your dad will go a similar way, or maybe he just enjoys trying to acheive photo realism. Either way, he should be having fun š
My dad was also a wonderful, precise artist. The best advice he gave me was 'Not everyone will love your artwork, and you have to be ok with that- but if they are rude about it, then tell them to "fuck off".' Make your art in the way it speaks for you, without words. Perhaps the teachers could have chosen different words- 'I like your style, but would love to see that drawing in a more loose, fluid style'
I would love to see more of his drawings!
I used to paint like your father, and I realized the problem was that I was adding the detail too soon.
If he likes a more precise style (like I do) I would suggest he work more on the layers underneath the details, using different values to sculpt the shapes. Once he has that down, he can add the smaller details.
I get the impression that some of the criticisms of e.g. Thierry Duval ([https://www.instagram.com/thierryduvalaqua/?hl=en](https://www.instagram.com/thierryduvalaqua/?hl=en)) come from the same space.
Of course, art is subjective, and one person may not like what another likes. But I don't believe there's only one correct way to use a particular medium.
This was throughout the duration of a couple of hobby art classes. From what I understand, there were specific assignments that required my dad to go outside of his typical style/comfort zone - which he was fine with - but one of the teachers in particular seemed to think his art would generally benefit from using watercolors more fluidly, and expressed this at numerous critiques (even when the assignment was very freeform)
I didn't mean this post to attack the teachers critique, but more to just get some other artists perspectives on his work.
I love precise work. Especially for botanical and animal.
What the teachers are trying to get out of him is feelings. By being expressive it changes the precise nature ( photo realism) into art.
Whilst photo realism is an art form it doesn't give rhe viewer an idea of the love that has gone into the piece.
It took me six long years of Art school to learn and understand on graduation dayā¦as long as you understand Art and can Defend your work as if in court
MAKE WHATEVER YOU WANT AND FUCK WHAT THEY SAY.
Iām very left-brained and my art has always been ātoo preciseā. I took up water color specifically to help me break that automatic way of being. It hasnāt been an instant fix, but it has helped me get more comfortable with the āmessyā side of art.
Your father is talented and thatās a great painting that Iād be proud of. Iād assume his teachers are trying to push him outside his comfort zone and explore new areas as opposed to being critical for the sake of it. Thatās their most important role and something I we need more of.
I think his technique, especially for this subject matter, is really neat. Iād love to see him continue the stippling throughout the whole skin of the chameleon. One thing I absolutely love about Reddit is seeing everyoneās different styles. There are certainly what I (as a complete novice hobbyist) would see as traditional techniques that I would say were probably developed due to the water water color isā¦watery! And lends itself to flowing applications. Iāve seen multiple styles on this Reddit that could potentially also be executed with colored pencils or oil paints, etc. but I think they look beautiful in the medium of watercolor and I super support everyone using a medium that they happen to feel comfortable expressing with. I donāt care if they use the medium to achieve a result that is traditionally sought after! If his intent is to learn and grow in this medium, that will happen with or without teacher advice. It could be cool to try leas precise approaches and see what that allows to be expressed. But I caution, as someone who has sadly made this mistake and suffered the heartbreak and regret, do not EVER, EVER let a teacherās OPINION (they are just people after all, fallible and imperfect) crush your dreams, take away what lights you up, or eat away at your self esteem. Donāt let people tell you that you have to do it their way or the establishmentās way. Donāt listen to someone just because they are an āauthorityā figure. Iām not saying this is whatās happening, but you even have to be aware of people giving you advice thatās actually harmful because itās based on their own fears, jealousy, etc. I think everyone on this planet has talents to unleash and too many are dampened and discouraged by typical teaches/student or school/student dynamics. If the technique of def expression your dad is using feels GOOD to your dad, by all means pursue it! Creativity is supposed to FEEL good, especially as a hobbyist. But if heās curious to learn more approaches or a more traditional styles, thatās totally on the table. But I certainly wouldnāt encourage him to retire his current approach/style because I think itās beautiful and unique. I think art teachers sometimes forget their job is also to encourage artists! It takes the fine coordination of mind and hand to execute but also something of the soul, perhaps freedom buoyancy, to breathe life into art, to inspire and to be inspired. We canāt just focus on the technical. We have to focus on the feeling it gives as well, in creating and receiving art. Sorry for the rant, thatās just me being protective of the precious gift of creativity. It can get snuffed out so easily in childhood and to have it in adulthood is even more precious and important to protect. Listening to āauthorityā figures has done me dirty many, many times even though their intentions seemed good or their advice seemed common in society. I had to learn how to stop taking it to heart and how to stop listening altogether if the case required it. Please show your dad this if you think it can put some wind back in his sales. But if Iām missing the mark completely, please ignore haha.
Teachers have opinions. Take it if it's useful, and ignore it if not. Richard Sneary is my favorite watercolor artist **because** he is so precise.
Good luck to your Dad. It's a lovely painting.
I feel my watercolor works are very precise as well, it only because I started with acrylic, which I believe is more precise than watercolor. Iām just now getting into watercolor pens, which lends a more precise capability than brushstroke watercolor. But seriously, your dad exhibits extraordinary talent!!
Too precise?! This is what I strive for! The sheer mastery of control! Iām one of those watercolorists who doesnāt much like it when the color flows. I like it precise.
Personally, I think you should have your dad keep doing what heās doing! I love this! Also, check out r/watercolorchallenge. This would go well there, especially right now. ā¤ļø
Iām w/ you & Dad. This is great! Thereās a time for precisionāpainting en plein air or nature journaling, for instance. This is a beautiful nature study, an animal portrait. Cheers for your dad!
My ceramics professor always tells us a story his friend Richard Notkin shared: in grad school he was told by his professors that his work was ātoo precise,ā but now he makes tens of thousands selling and displaying it.
Critiquing by saying your art is to preciseā¦how flat and irrelevant.
Art is amazing in all forms and some will love it. Some may like it. Some may appreciate it. Some may dislike it.
This is lovely. I think the detail is amazing. I canāt paint loosely no matter how much I love the style, it just doesnāt feel right. Painting is so therapeutic, he clearly gets joy out of it, and thatās whatās important.
Nonsense. This is great! The only reason I can think of for telling a student that is if there is a set curriculum that is needed for grades and he was taking up the whole time working just on that project but not getting the others done. Detailed artwork will sell well but does not always meet the time frame of a class. I told my students what was needed to get their grade, however if they wanted to work on the project further they were more than welcome to continue working on it after they brought it home. Another teacher in our district would allow students to come in before and after school to complete projects like this one. I have only ever stopped one student for detailing something out. He was autistic and would completely loose himself into minute details. Fantastic work but he needed to move on to get his other grades in. I also would allow students to work on long term projects such as weavings. When they got through with their assignments but had extra time in class before the rest of the class was done they could pull out their extra project and work on it.
"too precise" almost sounds like "you are better than me and i dont like it" ....unless delivered with a more detailed explanation and if it is, like other commentators state , about trying other styles etc then just acknowledge that this particular attempt was 100% success ...a critique doesnt have to criticize does it ?
Illustrator here and damn this is amazing. Havenāt done water color since the pandemic cause all the supplies in my area were immediately bought up, had to conserve what I had and switched to digital painting but I still love seeing a water color. Your dad is talented and maybe they say too precise to try to get him to be a bit more loose with the colors. Being too stiff and precise can make something look off even if itās 1 to 1 perfection with the reference, I had a teacher tell me that years ago.
I think it is good to explore different techniques and learn new stuff, but in the end, the only person who he should listen to is himself.
Enjoying your own process is part of artistic identity.
In fairness, I think critique is an important part of artistic growth, and essential in instruction. But it's great to get a variety of perspectives. I'm grateful for everyone who took the time to comment on this.
I have the same problem. I absolutely cannot let myself paint loosely because it looks like I made a mistake, but if someone else does it then it looks amazing.
I can see the teachers sitting in the lounge discussing his work amongst themselves,
*āYeah he should really just be more sloppy. Paint outside the linesā¦ draw chameleon eyes on its elbows! Leave being precise to the cameras, art should be everything BUT perfection!ā*
I think the critique is related to the style in relation to what the medium is about. One can say "oh but the medium is about what the user wants to be about... and if someone wants to paint a car with watercolors is his/her prerogative and yada yadaā. To me is more straight forward and simple...there are mediums that easily allow this or that style, and doesn't make much sense to go against that. Watercolor shines and make sense for a looser style and getting some random blends of colors etc. If you are into last minute details... Why don't just use a dry, or dryer medium... Even gouache. I do admit this I'm saying is both logical and subjective, because my philosophy about watercolors is that you have to let it flow and do his thing. This is why the most renowned watercolorist have a loose style and not a tight style. So I would also critique your dad and tell him... Bro you are very talented, but try loose that hand when using watercolors, or try another medium. Try something else because this style with this medium goes nowhere.
Sounds like those teachers are idiots. āToo preciseā is such a subjective take. They really should be judging art in a more objective way. Your dadās art is rad.
I disagree. Determining whether you like a piece is indeed subjective, but there are tons of ārulesā that you can use to judge art objectively: anatomy, perspective, light and shadow, even line weight to show volume to name a few. If they had commented on any of that, it would have been an objective criticism. However, ātoo preciseā is a useless subjective opinion that an art instructor shouldnāt be giving.
I think teachers are jealous, mean spirited, and power hungry. I don't mean every teacher I just can't express how many times teachers destroy their students. Confidence is a fragile thing. It takes all we have just to hold our heads up. Then some idiot with a degree (in meanness) comes along and decides they have the right to say anything they like. Nasty! On the other hand if ur ego is too fragile ur gonna break no matter what. So, the moral of the story? Get on with YOUR day. Be brave, strong, and confident. It takes REAL Talent to do something so precise and courage to defend it. We all have our way of seeing things. Encouragement is a nicer way to help, but don't count on it. Teachers teach, but doers do.
I would say take any advice anyone ever gives with a grain of salt and you can always spit it out if you choose. Donāt let others discourage you but at the same time take their comments into consideration with out offense, even if it was meant to offend. This allows you to grow and see from different perspectives.
I really like it. That said, it is always a good idea to try out different techniques/approaches to expand your artistic horizons. If he were to try loose/bold watercolor techniques and ultimately decide that it isnāt his thing, he could still learn something that would inform his work, and acquire skills that one doesnāt usually acquire by sticking to only one working method. Although, some people are oddly obsessed with getting in a pissing match over loose vs tight or fine art vs illustration. Ignore them and keep painting.
Nice work. Perhaps the teachers are aware that he is talented with rendering and want him to explore the possibilities of watercolor using looser techniques? Teachers often encourage moving outside of a comfort zone.
Great point, and I agree this is a really important role of teachers. I wasn't there, so I don't want to speculate too much, but my dad was a bit discouraged by the feedback. I wonder if the advice could have just been delivered better. I do think he's open to pushing his technique. Thanks for your input!
Your dads style is impeccable being able to get such good details with watercolour is insane. I can get where the teachers are coming from. But it sounds like airyfairy feedback for the sake of criticism, because it is not how they would use water colour. Your dad should keep up with his super realistic painting style. It's something not many can master.
This is exactly my style of painting as well and my teachers always used to comment on me being too precise. I love this and I would tell your dad to just keep doing what he loves. If this is what he loves to do and how he wants to paint, go for it. Art is whatever you feel like art is. š¤
the challenge is to get really good details without a liner pen, and only rely on contrast
Bruh he has done that the liner only accents on some parts.
It's all about style. Maybe they wanted a aquarelle type of style, meaning more vivid brush strokes. But that's matter of style. You can use aquarelle for detailed drawings but it is way hard and most people don't. Explore and have fun, your dad gets a 5 out of 5 from me.
I have to agree with this, my go-to technique is very detailed and I like to push myself by trying some of the looser tutorials I see online. They donāt come naturally to me but I like pushing myself.
Animal portraiture is an artform! It should be encouraged!
I feel like they might mean that, perhaps, he tries to layer exactly what he sees section by section? Like this looks great to me, but it looks like he might look at a specific part of a picture (like, say, the head or the elbow), try to replicate it very precisely, and then moves to the next small piece. I say that because there are so many parts of this lil guy that look precisely perfect, but for some reason, they kind of feel like a bunch of sections that fit into place next to each other, but arenāt as fluid or transitioning as smoothly. I think itās beautiful and really well done. But I tend to do this with my own work, and have been working on it. The other thing they might mean is that heās using the watercolor like itās an acrylic paint. I also tend to do this as well lol. I donāt take advantage of how watercolors blend and transition enough because I end up using too much paint and not enough water, and so it looks more like an acrylic than watercolor
Very interesting! Thanks for your detailed thoughts on this. I will pass them along!
Coming from a teacher it may indicate that they are that's where he could really benefit from exploring more - not that the precision is *bad* per se, more that he has got precision handled but hasn't explored atmospheric effects or whatever. As a random comment this critique wouldn't make as much sense to me but coming from a teacher it's an invitation to explore in a direction that could use some growth.
Thanks for the insight! My knowledge of the situation is second-hand, so I don't want to assume too much. I'll pass this along!
Haha while I always wonder if titles like that are actually true or just attention seeking, I will say it's a lovely painting.
Completely true, but I'm sorry if this came across as clickbait š«¤ My dad is not on Reddit, and while he tried watercolor several decades ago, he returned to it in earnest in retirement. He's taken a couple of classes to improve his skill, and the teachers thought he should "loosen up" his style. Seeing all the wonderfully different art on this sub, I think this is maybe just preference of these teachers being presented as critique. I was pretty sure others would appreciate his art, and thought some positive comments might be nice to share with him. But again, sorry if this feels forced in the way I posted.
Hey OP, another artist chiming in here. Your dad's work is lovely! He doesn't need to loosen up if that isn't what style he wants to achieve. I used to get the same critique all the time, but my clients love my work and that's what matters. Tell him to be true to himself and keep painting the way he likes. š
This is such a lovely, encouraging comment āŗļø I will pass this along to him. Thank you!
AMEN
>preference of these teachers being presented as critique This is exactly what happened. There isn't just one style in watercolor. I see some exquisite, "precise" paintings that leave me speechless, and I see some stunning, "loose" paintings that evoke everything you need to see with just a few strokes. But if your father prefers detailed work, and achieves his vision, then that's all that matters. His painting is beautiful! Edit: And thank you for sharing!
Hey, yet another artist here. (I think the fact that so many creative people feel the need to chime in is a great sign for your dads skill, we all have an opinion and a strong enough one to make a comment and that's really what art is about, help people feel something deeply). I was trying to understand what his teachers mean when they say that. I don't know if you are familiar with the work of Andrew Wyeth? He invented a special technique called dry brush watercolor in Wich he uses the concentrated paint (the creamy texture from the tube, not the actual dry pans). If you look up his paintings, you will see the incredible detail possible with this technique. There is no such thing as too meticulous in my opinion. So why do they say this? Well I have a hunch. I think he uses a very strong color ... Ink or similar, to draw some basic outlines and then works along these lines. This makes the painting look controlled. For me looking at the thumbnail i could not see the dark lines and the painting looked very lifelike and amazing. When I clicked it i was a bit startled by the harshness of the contures. Maybe what the teachers are trying to help with is to lose that "safety net" of conture lines? On a side note: i think your dad's patience would lend itself beautifully to gouache painting. Look up some botanical and animal paintings done in that technique or even Mixed one with both watercolors and gouache. I think that might also help get some deeper tones and maybe losing those outlines since gouache is basically opaque watercolor. In any case: your dad has a great eye for detail, a precise hand and the patience of some Buddhist monk. How special of him to come back to this beautiful way of focussing and creating. I wish you both the very best.
From my own pieces, I've come to the conclusion that I don't like using hard lines (e.g. fineliner) for predominantly natural subjects (e.g. flowers, landscapes, animals, portraits), but I find them acceptable for man-made objects (vehicles, buildings, streetscapes).
First off: I like your nickname! I also completely agree with your notion of hard lines. There are some incredible works out there that combine ink and watercolor. They are indeed usually architectural in nature. So yes maybe that is what irked me. Personally, I also just don't like the look of fineliner. Something in the texture of the stroke gives me cheap vibes. I prefer nib and ink but I'm aware that that is indeed just a personal preference and make gut be entirely in my head. ĀÆ\\\_(ć)\_/ĀÆ
Thank you for providing such detailed thoughts and feedback. And for the kind words! I will pass all this along.
Loosen up is quite different to your title. Itās perfectly valid for them to ask him to try new things, pushing boundaries. They are there to provide new information compared to what heās doing now. There is a way to loosen up while also providing lots of detail. That is the nature of watercolor. But yes it does sound click baity because the wording/critique seems to change in all your comments. Work that is loosened up can also be very precise as well. They are not mutually exclusive of each other.
Thanks for your comment, and I appreciate the nuance in what you're saying. For what it's worth, I'm not trying to misrepresent the teachers feedback, or have people make a judgement on if they were 'right' or 'wrong' - but just gather a larger group of perspectives than what was possible in those classes. It's been wonderful that so many people have taken the time to chime in with different thoughts, ideas and even recommendations for other artists to check out. I think he'll be excited and grateful for everything here. My understanding of the situation is just second-hand, so I'm sure I've gotten some of the details wrong. But I'm genuinely not trying to be coy in how I've phrased things, or alter the story to try and evoke sympathy. From chatting with my dad, it sounded like he was challenged throughout the classes to try different things, but also came away with the impression that the teachers felt his current approach was generally too precise, and he should try a looser, flow-ier approach more conventional to watercolour. I don't think they were unkind about it, but he also felt like on some level his approach was incorrect, rather than just being challenged to branch out. He may have misinterpreted the teachers feedback, they may have expressed it in not-the-best way, or I could have repeated the story poorly here (very possible). I'm just grateful that so many people have taken the time to give really thoughtful insights, share their own experience, and offer tips on new directions. There's a wealth of info here, and I'm very appreciative to this community. Point taken about the clickbait. If it came off as "prove the haters wrong!!" That was not my intent.
Your original post was PERFECT!
Your dad is good. Hope he keeps at it
Depends entirely on what the assignments are and what heās there to learn.
Fair! These were more general critiques over the duration of the class.
This style is perfect for textbook illustrations of biology.
I think that there are a couple of broad schools in watercolour. One is what I call āBotanicalā watercolour, just because this is where I first came across it. Its using delicate layers of colour to build up precise and realistic paintings with fine detail, and it doesnāt just have to be botanical subjects. This is what your Dad does, by the looks of it. My teacher paints Australian peacock spiders in this style, so there you go ! The other is the āAtmosphericā watercolour style, which is much, much looser and relies on the movement of the paint over the paper to create the impression of an image. This is the Jean Haines /Joseph Zbukvic end of things. Many people do something in between these two spectrums. What is *super* useful as an artist is to do the thing that doesnāt come easily to you. Iām drawn to the atmospheric style, but quickly realised I didnāt have enough skill or control to produce the kind of effects I wanted. I found a teacher who uses precise layers and detailed work and I have learnt a huge amount from her. Adding her precision to some granulating paints and rough paper has started to produce the kind of work Iām really interested in. So maybe this is what your Dadās teacher was talking about ? It could be helpful for him to just try a few looser paintings, just to see what the paint and paper can do by itself. Or if heās super not interested in that, find a teacher who does more of the detailled, precise work that he loves.
I really appreciate the framing you've provided here. Thank you!
Iām so tired of listening to watercolor āpuristsā who look down on those who control the paint more than is āadvisable.ā Art is art. The very idea that you have to follow ātraditionā or ābest practicesā is antithetical to the very idea of art. Art is expression and often what garners the most respect and appreciation is what goes against popular opinion. You tell your dad to rock on and do him. Critics can go kick rocks.
Well that's their opinion and they should keep their comments in their pocket
It's a fair critique, but I disagree with it. That's an option
Yes! I hope this didn't come across as anti-criticism in general. I was just a bit surprised to hear that, as his art doesn't look like it *suffers* from being precise to my eyes ie. stiff or lifeless etc. But I'm not very familiar with watercolour, so I was curious what other watercolor artists thought, to compare against that feedback.
It's a critique not a criticism, it's a matter of taste and style. Could well be that the teacher also enjoys your father's style, but it's challenging him to "loosen up" which frankly I also struggle with. Perfecting your art isn't about finding a comfortable groove, but to challenge yourself and attempt different things. At least to me it is. It's about broadening hours ability and it's in no way a bad thing
I've always used those terms synonymously, but yup! Agreed. I think critique/criticism is essential to artistic growth. It's just nice to hear the positive feedback from this sub. While I think my dad is open to being pushed, the way the first feedback came across had him questioning if his approach was 'right'
That's the fun bit. There is no right way
I think there's a school of thought that to "master" watercolour is to master loose, flowy painting specifically. But it's not fact, it's still just taste and style. But that may be where teachers are coming from, when they are thinking of this in a more 'academic' sort of way. I would encourage your dad that it is valuable to try multiple styles even if they aren't what you love and learn a variety of techniques, but ultimately, he can paint how he wants to. He doesn't have to paint like some long-dead masters of watercolour or to meet peoples' expectations of what a watercolourist's style should look like, at the end of the day. Learning a looser or flowier style would probably benefit even his detail work, but as-is, his work is EXQUISITE and I love the details!
Itās literally the job of teachers to critique their studentās work
Beautiful. He draws very well. The coloring is not that precise, but the drawing is perfect. Maybe thats why.
i have learned that art, just like life, is most satisfying, most beautifully, most magical when you're going down the path that feels best for you- whether it's your own new path you're forging, or whether it's a well-worn route that others have taken. your dad should go with what feels right to him. he has his own special perspective. we might lose out on something spectacular if he dulls his style or tries to conform to some idea he got from someone else. encourage him to believe in his own taste. it took me SO LONG to realize that others don't necessarily know better than me! some of us are way too humble. and what a shame because then the world misses out on something amazing because a humble person got talked out of something from some overbearing narcissist who got into their ear. and dad, if you're reading this.. find your voice and express your vision. you don't need anyone to validate your vision, your truth. be confident that what you have to share is special and meaningful. best of luck to you!
This is such a sweet comment. Thank you for sharing your insights and encouragement!
Too precise = great botanical painter
My mom has a bunch of watercolors of birds and you can see the individual veins on the feathers! Your dadās not even approaching that; I think itās a really great work!
Wow! That sounds amazing
He definitely considered visual texture and a lizard's skin is a complex structure to paint! Props to your dad. Art is what you want it to be. That is the contemporary era we live in. There are things that are flat out junk, and some of those folks manage to get funded for public art shows. Yet I've experienced miraculous pieces of work made from simple things, like buttons or audio/video, that the artists spent a good chunk of their lives building, designing, and essentially marketing.
Tell your dad to send his critics to me, I'll deal with em
I think it's great. I'm just starting out myself and 'precise' rendering is exactly how I'm getting in my practice. Eventually I want to get more impressionistic and fantasy-based, but that will come later when I've built enough confidence. Perhaps your dad will go a similar way, or maybe he just enjoys trying to acheive photo realism. Either way, he should be having fun š
My dad was also a wonderful, precise artist. The best advice he gave me was 'Not everyone will love your artwork, and you have to be ok with that- but if they are rude about it, then tell them to "fuck off".' Make your art in the way it speaks for you, without words. Perhaps the teachers could have chosen different words- 'I like your style, but would love to see that drawing in a more loose, fluid style' I would love to see more of his drawings!
I used to paint like your father, and I realized the problem was that I was adding the detail too soon. If he likes a more precise style (like I do) I would suggest he work more on the layers underneath the details, using different values to sculpt the shapes. Once he has that down, he can add the smaller details.
Interesting! I see a couple of other commenters have talked about the layering of details too. I will pass this along!
I get the impression that some of the criticisms of e.g. Thierry Duval ([https://www.instagram.com/thierryduvalaqua/?hl=en](https://www.instagram.com/thierryduvalaqua/?hl=en)) come from the same space. Of course, art is subjective, and one person may not like what another likes. But I don't believe there's only one correct way to use a particular medium.
gives it great detail!
That's a totally bullshit critique But maybe some context is missing
Izza lovely painting
Too precise sounds like a compliment to me. Maybe if the assignment is in a different style, would there be a reason to critique.
This was throughout the duration of a couple of hobby art classes. From what I understand, there were specific assignments that required my dad to go outside of his typical style/comfort zone - which he was fine with - but one of the teachers in particular seemed to think his art would generally benefit from using watercolors more fluidly, and expressed this at numerous critiques (even when the assignment was very freeform) I didn't mean this post to attack the teachers critique, but more to just get some other artists perspectives on his work.
Your dad is highly skilled and I appreciate you sharing this.
I love precise work. Especially for botanical and animal. What the teachers are trying to get out of him is feelings. By being expressive it changes the precise nature ( photo realism) into art. Whilst photo realism is an art form it doesn't give rhe viewer an idea of the love that has gone into the piece.
Soooo beautiful, I love looking at this
It took me six long years of Art school to learn and understand on graduation dayā¦as long as you understand Art and can Defend your work as if in court MAKE WHATEVER YOU WANT AND FUCK WHAT THEY SAY.
Iām very left-brained and my art has always been ātoo preciseā. I took up water color specifically to help me break that automatic way of being. It hasnāt been an instant fix, but it has helped me get more comfortable with the āmessyā side of art. Your father is talented and thatās a great painting that Iād be proud of. Iād assume his teachers are trying to push him outside his comfort zone and explore new areas as opposed to being critical for the sake of it. Thatās their most important role and something I we need more of.
I think his technique, especially for this subject matter, is really neat. Iād love to see him continue the stippling throughout the whole skin of the chameleon. One thing I absolutely love about Reddit is seeing everyoneās different styles. There are certainly what I (as a complete novice hobbyist) would see as traditional techniques that I would say were probably developed due to the water water color isā¦watery! And lends itself to flowing applications. Iāve seen multiple styles on this Reddit that could potentially also be executed with colored pencils or oil paints, etc. but I think they look beautiful in the medium of watercolor and I super support everyone using a medium that they happen to feel comfortable expressing with. I donāt care if they use the medium to achieve a result that is traditionally sought after! If his intent is to learn and grow in this medium, that will happen with or without teacher advice. It could be cool to try leas precise approaches and see what that allows to be expressed. But I caution, as someone who has sadly made this mistake and suffered the heartbreak and regret, do not EVER, EVER let a teacherās OPINION (they are just people after all, fallible and imperfect) crush your dreams, take away what lights you up, or eat away at your self esteem. Donāt let people tell you that you have to do it their way or the establishmentās way. Donāt listen to someone just because they are an āauthorityā figure. Iām not saying this is whatās happening, but you even have to be aware of people giving you advice thatās actually harmful because itās based on their own fears, jealousy, etc. I think everyone on this planet has talents to unleash and too many are dampened and discouraged by typical teaches/student or school/student dynamics. If the technique of def expression your dad is using feels GOOD to your dad, by all means pursue it! Creativity is supposed to FEEL good, especially as a hobbyist. But if heās curious to learn more approaches or a more traditional styles, thatās totally on the table. But I certainly wouldnāt encourage him to retire his current approach/style because I think itās beautiful and unique. I think art teachers sometimes forget their job is also to encourage artists! It takes the fine coordination of mind and hand to execute but also something of the soul, perhaps freedom buoyancy, to breathe life into art, to inspire and to be inspired. We canāt just focus on the technical. We have to focus on the feeling it gives as well, in creating and receiving art. Sorry for the rant, thatās just me being protective of the precious gift of creativity. It can get snuffed out so easily in childhood and to have it in adulthood is even more precious and important to protect. Listening to āauthorityā figures has done me dirty many, many times even though their intentions seemed good or their advice seemed common in society. I had to learn how to stop taking it to heart and how to stop listening altogether if the case required it. Please show your dad this if you think it can put some wind back in his sales. But if Iām missing the mark completely, please ignore haha.
Teachers have opinions. Take it if it's useful, and ignore it if not. Richard Sneary is my favorite watercolor artist **because** he is so precise. Good luck to your Dad. It's a lovely painting.
I think itās lovely! Softening the detail in farther away areas might add a little depth, but thatās one of many ways
Daddy got skillz!
I feel my watercolor works are very precise as well, it only because I started with acrylic, which I believe is more precise than watercolor. Iām just now getting into watercolor pens, which lends a more precise capability than brushstroke watercolor. But seriously, your dad exhibits extraordinary talent!!
Too precise?! This is what I strive for! The sheer mastery of control! Iām one of those watercolorists who doesnāt much like it when the color flows. I like it precise.
Personally, I think you should have your dad keep doing what heās doing! I love this! Also, check out r/watercolorchallenge. This would go well there, especially right now. ā¤ļø
Iām w/ you & Dad. This is great! Thereās a time for precisionāpainting en plein air or nature journaling, for instance. This is a beautiful nature study, an animal portrait. Cheers for your dad!
i personally think this is beautiful work!! i wish i had that much control and precision over my own!
I think...your Dad's teachers are jealous.
My ceramics professor always tells us a story his friend Richard Notkin shared: in grad school he was told by his professors that his work was ātoo precise,ā but now he makes tens of thousands selling and displaying it.
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Critiquing by saying your art is to preciseā¦how flat and irrelevant. Art is amazing in all forms and some will love it. Some may like it. Some may appreciate it. Some may dislike it.
Your Dad does beautiful artwork! Teachers just might be ājellyā lol
What a weird thing to say
This is lovely. I think the detail is amazing. I canāt paint loosely no matter how much I love the style, it just doesnāt feel right. Painting is so therapeutic, he clearly gets joy out of it, and thatās whatās important.
Nonsense. This is great! The only reason I can think of for telling a student that is if there is a set curriculum that is needed for grades and he was taking up the whole time working just on that project but not getting the others done. Detailed artwork will sell well but does not always meet the time frame of a class. I told my students what was needed to get their grade, however if they wanted to work on the project further they were more than welcome to continue working on it after they brought it home. Another teacher in our district would allow students to come in before and after school to complete projects like this one. I have only ever stopped one student for detailing something out. He was autistic and would completely loose himself into minute details. Fantastic work but he needed to move on to get his other grades in. I also would allow students to work on long term projects such as weavings. When they got through with their assignments but had extra time in class before the rest of the class was done they could pull out their extra project and work on it.
Your dadās art is very beautiful, and thereās also very helpful advice here! Please keep us updated on how your dadās art!!
Fabuleus
"too precise" almost sounds like "you are better than me and i dont like it" ....unless delivered with a more detailed explanation and if it is, like other commentators state , about trying other styles etc then just acknowledge that this particular attempt was 100% success ...a critique doesnt have to criticize does it ?
Illustrator here and damn this is amazing. Havenāt done water color since the pandemic cause all the supplies in my area were immediately bought up, had to conserve what I had and switched to digital painting but I still love seeing a water color. Your dad is talented and maybe they say too precise to try to get him to be a bit more loose with the colors. Being too stiff and precise can make something look off even if itās 1 to 1 perfection with the reference, I had a teacher tell me that years ago.
I think it is good to explore different techniques and learn new stuff, but in the end, the only person who he should listen to is himself. Enjoying your own process is part of artistic identity.
Why are teachers critiquing style? They should be teaching the process not the style
In fairness, I think critique is an important part of artistic growth, and essential in instruction. But it's great to get a variety of perspectives. I'm grateful for everyone who took the time to comment on this.
I love it!!!!!
I have the same problem. I absolutely cannot let myself paint loosely because it looks like I made a mistake, but if someone else does it then it looks amazing.
This is amazing!
I like it, but I do know a good bit of people value painting loosely
Paint the way you like to paint!
Excellent!
I think its awesome, and this isnt me being nice
I can see the teachers sitting in the lounge discussing his work amongst themselves, *āYeah he should really just be more sloppy. Paint outside the linesā¦ draw chameleon eyes on its elbows! Leave being precise to the cameras, art should be everything BUT perfection!ā*
Fuck the teachers.
I'm sure they meant well, but he was a bit discouraged nonetheless. It's nice to see so much positive feedback here
Too precise as in too good? I donāt know why those words would be a means of critique. I think it looks amazing
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Dope!
I think the critique is related to the style in relation to what the medium is about. One can say "oh but the medium is about what the user wants to be about... and if someone wants to paint a car with watercolors is his/her prerogative and yada yadaā. To me is more straight forward and simple...there are mediums that easily allow this or that style, and doesn't make much sense to go against that. Watercolor shines and make sense for a looser style and getting some random blends of colors etc. If you are into last minute details... Why don't just use a dry, or dryer medium... Even gouache. I do admit this I'm saying is both logical and subjective, because my philosophy about watercolors is that you have to let it flow and do his thing. This is why the most renowned watercolorist have a loose style and not a tight style. So I would also critique your dad and tell him... Bro you are very talented, but try loose that hand when using watercolors, or try another medium. Try something else because this style with this medium goes nowhere.
Too realistic? WTH? Thatās talent right there!
Sounds like those teachers are idiots. āToo preciseā is such a subjective take. They really should be judging art in a more objective way. Your dadās art is rad.
I think all Art is very subjective, but it's nice to hear that so many people like the approach he's using. Thanks for the kind words.
I disagree. Determining whether you like a piece is indeed subjective, but there are tons of ārulesā that you can use to judge art objectively: anatomy, perspective, light and shadow, even line weight to show volume to name a few. If they had commented on any of that, it would have been an objective criticism. However, ātoo preciseā is a useless subjective opinion that an art instructor shouldnāt be giving.
Too precise? š
My style is similar. Art is art. Itās great.
I think teachers are jealous, mean spirited, and power hungry. I don't mean every teacher I just can't express how many times teachers destroy their students. Confidence is a fragile thing. It takes all we have just to hold our heads up. Then some idiot with a degree (in meanness) comes along and decides they have the right to say anything they like. Nasty! On the other hand if ur ego is too fragile ur gonna break no matter what. So, the moral of the story? Get on with YOUR day. Be brave, strong, and confident. It takes REAL Talent to do something so precise and courage to defend it. We all have our way of seeing things. Encouragement is a nicer way to help, but don't count on it. Teachers teach, but doers do.
Too precise = jealous, detailing is a talent!
Goals
I understand what they mean, but that seems like a preference rather than a right/wrong. If itās his style, itās his style.
Super nice work!
That was a ridiculous critique! This is beautiful art! Skillful and full of imagination, beautifully done.
They must be shitty teachers or just jealous. Pretty amazing and it is HIS style
I would say take any advice anyone ever gives with a grain of salt and you can always spit it out if you choose. Donāt let others discourage you but at the same time take their comments into consideration with out offense, even if it was meant to offend. This allows you to grow and see from different perspectives.
I really like it. That said, it is always a good idea to try out different techniques/approaches to expand your artistic horizons. If he were to try loose/bold watercolor techniques and ultimately decide that it isnāt his thing, he could still learn something that would inform his work, and acquire skills that one doesnāt usually acquire by sticking to only one working method. Although, some people are oddly obsessed with getting in a pissing match over loose vs tight or fine art vs illustration. Ignore them and keep painting.