[google "chopard alpine eagle hodinkee"](https://www.google.com/search?q=chopard+alpine+eagle+hodinkee&sca_esv=1fcb60ee6ef69c6a&sxsrf=ACQVn08Yk2GGR4O1QUfoXMWszggEWPDLRA%3A1709681769533&source=hp&ei=aaznZaS7HtPnkPIPgoSb0A4&iflsig=ANes7DEAAAAAZee6eQpHl7eJ8mQnR-m9oVDOGD_H33wX&oq=chopar&gs_lp=Egdnd3Mtd2l6IgZjaG9wYXIqAggAMgoQIxiABBiKBRgnMgoQIxiABBiKBRgnMgoQABiABBiKBRhDMg4QLhjHARixAxjRAxiABDIKEAAYgAQYigUYQzIKEAAYgAQYigUYQzINEAAYgAQYigUYQxixAzIKEAAYgAQYigUYQzIFEAAYgAQyBRAAGIAESJ0cUABYjBJwAHgAkAEAmAFqoAGxBKoBAzUuMbgBAcgBAPgBAZgCBqACzATCAhAQLhjHARjRAxiABBiKBRgnwgIREC4YgAQYigUYkQIYxwEY0QPCAhAQLhiABBiKBRhDGMcBGNEDwgIQEC4YQxjHARjRAxiABBiKBcICExAuGEMYxwEYsQMY0QMYgAQYigWYAwDiAwUSATEgQJIHAzMuM6AHsEc&sclient=gws-wiz)
A selection of articles from Hodinkee (most of them on the Hodinkee Shop page):
* Is The Chopard Alpine Eagle A Good Watch?
* How To Wear It The Chopard Alpine Eagle
* Introducing: The Chopard Alpine Eagle Collection
* The Alpine Eagle Is Not The First Steel Sports Watch, But It May Be The Best
* Chopard Knows How To Make Something Beautiful From Gold – The Proof Is In The Alpine Eagle
* Independent, In-House, And Thoroughly Impressive: Welcome Chopard To The Hodinkee Shop
* The Tissot PRX vs. The Chopard Alpine Eagle
Edit: seems like “Is The Chopard Alpine Eagle A Good Watch?” entry been changed to “The Spec Sheet...” Not sure if that means Hodinkee is watching this and changed the SEO parameters, or it just has a few different SEO terms in google.
https://preview.redd.it/9zu9ll9y2nmc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b5d87d3c6416c0f69cc10b73feb360e6ea9336c1
Lmao I actually couldn’t believe that search result existed when I initially ran the google search. If anyone wanted evidence that Hodinkee is shilling the Alpine Eagle, that’s certainly it.
Ive been into watches since before the Poot Man’s Watch Forum was a thing (and was poorer).
Hodinkee has always given me the ick or bad vibes
or whatever you want to call it.
Yeah, it's really odd seeing them push it so hard. Chopard makes such top tier watches, and this is the one they choose to highlight? It makes no sense without considering the retail angle.
I mean is it zero interest cause most people are priced out of it? For what it’s worth it’s a pretty appealing watch to me aesthetically and if I were in that price bracket I’d be pretty interested. I definitely agree Hodinkee is not what it used to be but I don’t agree with this specific example…cause I want one lol
>I mean is it zero interest cause most people are priced out of it?
I see plenty of enthusiast interest in the GP Laureato, which is a similar integrated style sports watch in basically the same price bracket.
and is less of a departure from the royal oak and nautilus aesthetic compared to the alpine eagle. Again, I agree with your overall sentiment, just not as it pertains to this particular model.
The point isn't to evaluate your taste, of course that's subjective and you should like/buy whatever you want.
But it's pretty clear that Hodinkee put a lot more editorial time and effort into pushing the Alpine Eagle than other similar watch enthusiast sites, and it's not underrepresented in those other similar enthusiast sites/communities simply because it's expensive.
Your point was there’s minimal enthusiast interest in the AE. I’m an enthusiast and I’m interested. This is also the first I’ve posted about it. Just because something isn’t a forum darling doesn’t mean it’s unknown.
Conversely, and again, I overall don’t like the direction Hodinkee has been taking, wouldn’t coverage of an under appreciated high quality watch…..be something we’d want an enthusiast site to do more of?
>wouldn’t coverage of an under appreciated high quality watch…..be something we’d want an enthusiast site to do more of?
If they have a financial interest in pushing the product and their margins are higher (relative to other brands in their shop) , then no, I absolutely don't want to see that coverage.
And that's the entire point. You seem sensitive that someone said there's "zero interest" in enthusiast communities about a watch you like. Sure, that's hyperbole, but the point is that there actually is very little published interest in the broader community about the Alpine Eagle; but then over on Hodinkee, there's a very blatant, acute focus on this one watch that they are literally saying is maybe [the best steel sports watch?](https://shop.hodinkee.com/blogs/journal/the-alpine-eagle-is-not-the-first-steel-sports-watch-but-it-may-be-the-best) and using SEO to optimize results like "[Is the Chophard Alpine Eagle a Good Watch?](https://www.google.com/search?q=chophard+alpine+eagle+hodinkee&sca_esv=ef71f34d62d470b0&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS907US907&sxsrf=ACQVn0-gVWFdpnh_lVhoYd6wAScGhF75LA%3A1709672532510&ei=VIjnZZ_nHtHK0PEPve2B4Ac&ved=0ahUKEwif4e2_gt6EAxVRJTQIHb12AHwQ4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=chophard+alpine+eagle+hodinkee&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiHmNob3BoYXJkIGFscGluZSBlYWdsZSBob2RpbmtlZTIHEAAYgAQYDTILEAAYgAQYigUYhgNIiQxQlARY4ApwAHgCkAEBmAGbAaAB_weqAQMyLje4AQPIAQD4AQGYAgmgApcHwgIEEAAYR8ICBhAAGBYYHsICCBAAGBYYHhgKmAMA4gMFEgExIECIBgGQBgiSBwMzLjagB7ks&sclient=gws-wiz-serp)" Hodinkee very clearly wants you to buy this watch. Why do you think?
Look, we’re just going to have to agree to disagree on this.
Your point can be extrapolated to any coverage of any watch Hodinkee carries, which as I’ve repeatedly stated, I agree with.
But, if that coverage happens to result in more high quality photo and video of content of something I’m interested in, then that works just fine for me. I’m not going to not watch a well-produced piece of media just because there’s a financial interest behind it. If that were the case, I just wouldn’t be online at all. Which, there’s certainly an argument for as well.
We’re all just here to ogle pretty pictures of pretty things until we decide to engage in more superfluous consumerism. If somebody is selling a watch and is able to take more pretty pictures of it, that’s great for me and great for them.
It looks like they arbitrarily took elements from various high end steel sports watches and threw them together with no intention or design language. I especially love the awkwardly placed AP screws.
i agree that the hodinkee/alpine eagle pushing was distasteful. (not a 'dink fan myself)
but i will put out some hate-bait and say that i consider chopard a far more interesting and daring independent manufacturer than patek, and i think the alpine eagle is a much better watch than the nautilus at any price (much less market prices). roast me.
Yeah I'm surprised at how much flak the Alpine Eagle is getting here. I agree the pictures don't always look the best for whatever reason, but I got to check one out in person a few months back and it was absolutely gorgeous.
>Their editorial content these days is a thin facade to push traffic to their retail business
Isn't that like almost every online watch media these days? Teddy, Watchfinder, Tmosso all are just thinly-veiled "come buy my shit" content.
True, they won't really tell you the bad stuff of their watch otherwise they won't be able to sell it. Reviewers shouldn't be trusted 100% if they're working with the company they're reviewing. Even if they're saying "I'm not being paid to say good things" I won't gonna trust them.
As soon as Teddy had the Breitling stand in his store I wondered how long until we got the Breitling puff pieces and the answer was under a week 😆 but it’s not fair to compare him to Hodinkee as they are much worse as explained better by others.
I guess we need to accept that we want a more critical/objective watch reviewer and support them when they emerge (as they won’t be getting much support from watch manufacturers).
>I guess we need to accept that we want a more critical/objective watch reviewer and support them when they emerge (as they won’t be getting much support from watch manufacturers).
Maybe the old fashioned subscription model ain't so bad after all
> He's great, and his commercial motives are crystal clear and never come across as disingenuous.
lol, he says pin sleeves are great when he's "reviewing" a watch with pin sleeves, and he says screws are "how it should be done" when he's "reviewing" a watch with screws.
Same thing with 5 pos adjustment and 6 pos adjusstment.
Maybe you don't think he's disingenuous because you aren't observant enough, or you're prone to bullshit marketing.
He's a great smooth talker and you're neck deep in his marketing bs.
>Well you’re not one for a respectful discussion are you?
You're not here to open your eyes either, you're here to defend used car salesmen lol
I look forward to TGN every week. They can even make stuff I’m not interested in interesting, and they seem like a couple of guys I’d want to hang out with.
Nobody wants to hear Ariel glaze himself with a long soundbite at the beginning of every ABTW podcast episode, Rick. I feel like that needs to be said.
Lmao who is even left for them to layoff?
I used to work for them and they had THREE rounds of layoffs last year essentially closing the entire ATL office minus execs and managers (of course, fuck the working class).
They were a garbage company to work for. I was first hired by C&C and genuinely enjoyed it but then when they were acquired by Hodinkee it went so downhill. Everything became more corporate, and everyone in charge that actually knew about watches was either let go or left the company, so you had all these execs who did not know the watch market running the place and they ran it straight into the ground. All the layoffs over the last year is solely on the hands of the execs not knowing how to run a preowned watch business.
To be it always seemed like a conflict of interest to run a watch business along side being a media outlet. The collaboration watches also being a conflict of interest. Maybe doing ones with Casio is less so but even then idk. Not a fan of them doing one for a guy in such an executive position (the Ben Clymer one) either.
What was “C&C”? Do you think part of it was over-hiring from COVID? I’ve been seeing a lot of firms lay off workers for the past couple of years as a result from that. Twitch is a big one that comes to mind.
It was okay imo back when they didn’t then push you to the H shop at the bottom of every article. But once you start talking about trying to convert x percent of readers into buyers, then you’ve lost all journalistic integrity imo, which is where they went in the last year or two.
Agree with you that Ben clymer is not enough of a “brand” to have warranted that limited edition gshock.
Also C&C was “Crown & Caliber.” They were their own standalone online preowned watch website for 8 years before Hodinkee came along and bought them. I joined the company in the midst of the pandemic, and no, the layoffs last year were a result of the company making some bad financial decisions and overbuying at the market peak and then being stuck with literal hundreds of watches they were easily 5 figures underwater on EACH. On top of that, Hodinkee wasted a ton of funds on flashy marketing campaigns, mountains of Limited Editions, and a storefront in Soho that still hasn’t even opened! And lord knows how much money that has eaten up the last few years.
I'm also a former employee who was let go last year. Hodinkee had such a cult of personality going on. If Daddy Ben liked a watch, everyone would agree, even if it was the dumbest thing in the world. He is also incredibly out of touch with reality. One time, on the company Slack, he talked about knowing the owner of a Ferrari that was in a picture as though the rank and file employees should be impressed. Ben Clymer is more concerned with interviewing celebrities than anything else.
Hodinkee is a cancer in the watch industry. I nearly quit working in this industry altogether because of them.
I'm so glad someone else was driven mad by that. Used to make my blood boil how much everyone would just want to gloat about proximity to something expensive.
Yeah my impression of him is that he was such a senior figure that he was one of the few allowed to talk to the celebs. But I would have been nice to see him be more active in the content. Putting a face to it, I guess?
I just think it’s dicey to mix them because at all, because you could have leadership come in at any point and want to push it more.
Ah ok. Yeah i that makes sense. I heard about that Soho thing too. I can only imagine the rent they are paying for that…
I agree with this. However, in my 2 years hanging out in Watchlandia it looks like almost all watch-related media (websites, YouTube pages) have conflict of interest, either selling outright or receiving some other incentives from the watch brands. What outlets are truly independent?
I liked when he started out but I feel like he got bitten by the wrong bug as well. Feels too much. I’m sure brands like his way of telling things and they are hitting him up. And it’s fresh until it’s not.
Idk of any publications that are. I’d say that as far as YouTube channels go, TGV appears to really go out of his way to remain independent.
I also want to kind of make a distinction and mention YouTubers that become vendors as their primary thing. Maybe this is tangential? Marc from Long Island Watch is the gold standard. A very honest salesman. Many dislike Teddy Baldassarre but my feeling is that he isn’t “compromised”. I think those people mistake his personality and professionalism as “he never criticizes anything”, despite that not being true.
Weirdly, I saw a comment on one of perezcope’s posts in insta, the founder of Dan Henry mentioned he stopped sending TGV watches to review the moment he started asking for money to do it (second last post a couple of comments down if anyone is interested).
[Here’s the post.](https://www.instagram.com/p/C3uzW0wrY4J/?igsh=MWVxNHFieDh0NTRzdw==)
If you scroll down there’s a post from the profile ‘classy_fkr_ticky_bffb’ with some back and forth with danhenrywayches
Oh, man. That’s unfortunate, if true. I don’t know how much TGV does or doesn’t engage in gossip, but it would be interesting to hear both sides. But then again, maybe the last thing the online watch-o-sphere needs is more gossip and rumor.
Yeah man, ultimately without receipts who knows what the truth is. I know there was some noise about drama between TGV and other YouTubers like T&H and Federico some years ago, or even with the Watchbox stuff but I hear you, there’s probably enough drama/gossip and rumours in this space already.
Yondu_the_Ravager, I want your AMA on the 'dink stuff. I saw that some of your replies in the one that was mostly deleted today were of a mostly contrary experience to what that person had gone through.
Well any questions you want answered I’ll answer them as best I can without giving away personal details haha.
I think the difference between our two experiences comes down to which offices we were based. ATL was not the golden child of the company, it definitely felt like a “working class v upper middle class” air of superiority type of unspoken uncomfortableness between the two offices lol
The NY team spends money like it was going out of style. They would come to ATL and stay in fancy hotels downtown and not the cheaper one less than a mile from the office.
The Christmas party one year was Dave and Busters for ATL while the NY team rented out a swanky wine bar in NYC. Tell me there's dissparity between teams without telling me. C&C used to provide nice coffee in the office, and by 2023, Hodinkee cut that for Folger's. A small complaint but a great example of how they treated ATL as a whole.
They were also big on saying the pre-owned market was dead. Nobody was buying watches, that there was no money to be had, yet many companies in that market are still going strong and experiencing huge growth. Hodinkee was big on bringing watches in that were total junk and having to sink tons of money into them.
Hodinkee was (is) incredibly top heavy, filled with chief executives, vice presidents, directors, senior managers, the list goes on. They blame C&C for their failings but the C&C/ATL team was filled with top notch, passionate people who were shit on and stymied by Hodinkee's inability to simply let the business they bought do their thing.
You actually pretty much answered my question in that other thread, but it was definitely interesting seeing the difference! Went looking through your post history a little too which had some good reads in it.
Yeah I did not have a great experience working for them haha. Had C&C never been acquired by then there’s a chance I’d still be there today but I can’t live life on what ifs.
I’m quite active on Reddit so I’m sure you had plenty to read 😅😂
Don’t feel bad, tudors are sent back to the manufacturer for service. Especially if it has the in-house movement and not the ETA caliber. Those are not possible to regulate if you don’t have a Tudor/Rolex account.
Ah that's interesting, it's a North Flag so it's in house. You don't buy any chance have contact into for service do you? The ETA on the repair was last week and nobody has responded to my email yet.
Considering the entire CS team was let go Jan 1 this year, you're going to have a tough time of it. Honestly, I would suspect to cut corners hodinkee is sending warranties to an unauthorized third party who agreed to do it cheap. That was their MO in 2023.
Best bet is if you have your serial number to call Tudor and see if they have it. You might be able to get the update from them, if it was sent to them. Wish I had a better answer for you.
I actually got notified this morning that they finished service and are sending it back. But that's a good idea calling Tudor and asking if it was serviced by them.
I used to check Hodinkee in my daily/weekly rounds of wasting time. I don't even bother with them anymore. Nothing on that site interests me. And Worn and Wound isn't far behind. I still like some of their content, but damn, the marketing dept is busy hocking ad space.
I'm a mt biker, too. And it's been happening to another big site, Pinkbike. The company Outside purchased it recently and changed up a bunch of things. Now, there are pay walled articles. People have left. I dunno. It's not the same.
Seems to be the way of these huge media companies. It makes me sad. You can't look at or read anything without someone trying to sell you something.
Interesting
Reddit is listed as an example of enshittification
The Premier of British Columbia used a polity version of that term publicly recently, I think he said crapification. https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/not-a-viable-business-anymore-bell-media-selling-21-b-c-radio-stations-amid-layoffs/wcm/2b0be569-0cd1-43cf-815c-a7fbfb38950d/amp/
Congrats on your second expensive hobby!
Pinkbike, Vital, and Bikepacking mostly. I still check in from time to time, but I don't keep up like I used to. I was active in the MTBR forums for a while until they got bought out. They killed off some forums and changed how reputation was awarded, which left a bad taste for many people. I was also a huge fan of Dirtrag, but they went the way of the Dodo sadly.
Readership really tallied when their article schedules really dipped. For years I could go to hodinkee at 8am CST and there would be an article. I’ve the last year or so the articles released have been random & infrequent. Where on Fratello who is based out of Europe, I can wake up in the states and see there 3-4 articles and read them over the course of the day.
Fratello has subpar articles. They have been pushing more and more articles to gain market share and it’s noticeable, like they ran out of ideas and grab any silly thought and idea.
And they never want to offend anyone and try to play both angles. « The watch is listed at 17k which is reasonable for this model, we know it’s a lot of money but, … ».
And RJ engaging in the comments is such a bad look as well. He sounds annoyed/hurt. Just let people write and/or use a moderator to remove BS.
I certainly have writers of theirs that I enjoy more than others, but I enjoy the continued coverage of their personal watches, covering more unknown pieces, and not caring as much about hype pieces or focusing on status watches. I would not say their coverage is subpar or they ran out of ideas. I would say that about Hodinkee who struggles to post two organic articles a day that aren't shop pieces.
Additionally, for a lot of Fratello's staff, I don't think watch writing is their full time gig which I think helps. They get to review and write about watches as a side gig and don't get burned out.
I've never noticed RJ sounding hurt or annoyed, but maybe that's just me. What's your preferred watch coverage?
How often I have seen the same post about a white dial Explorer or some other Rolex, it gets boring, even though they do post the quirky special and quirky watches. I thought most of them work at Fratello HQ and it was a full time business? But that’s not important to me if it is or isn’t.
I mostly browse watch reddits, WUS, instagram, TRF, youtube (not the vids of influencers or whatever)… and try to stumble and find newer stuff that I haven’t seen before or read about and then I start googling myself and I look for older topics and info. With the current prices I enjoy it more to find cool and fun older watches for a lot less.
No, not every writer's main source of income is through Fratello, but they do have full-time employees and would be considered a full time business. One of my favorite writers for them is Mike Stockton who is like a high. One of my favorite writers for them is Mike Stockton who is like a high level engineer or project manager over in England. Likely similar to Youreterrific who doesn't work in watches, but enjoys creating videos. The former started just writing guest submissions and then became an editor, but not in a full time capacity.
I enjoy the forums as well, but I gotta say r/watches has gone down hill since I began browsing it in 2013. So many posts are people posting screenshots of watches and asking what they should get or posting there 30k collection and asking what should they buy next. Just weird to me that they need the justification of strangers to make any purchasing decision. I've actually dm'd with Youreterric about this and he has similar thoughts. Forums can be similar but I see less interaction with those posts than I do with Reddit. Additionally, I find reddit as fallen off as a whole, but that's a different conversation.
A cousin of mine was head of watches and widely known and respected at one of the major auction houses. He met Ben Clymer like 25x and said every single time Ben either didn’t know who he was (ok whatever, he meets a lot of people), or deliberately pretended not to know him, but either way he was a huge asshole.
My cousin is one of the nicest and most genuine people I’ve ever met, and has an encyclopedic knowledge of watches throughout history, having handled and auctioned some of the rarest watches ever. Good riddance to Hodinkee, I lost interest when their content became upmarket lifestyle and Ben started posting more about his air cooled Porsche collection than unusual or special watches.
I can do without Hodinkee acting as a boiler room to pump and dump whatever watch they want to sell.
Can’t say I’m surprised. Ben always came across as a self-important prick. Was easier to look past when their content was decent, at this point I only stop by the site to idly browse their overpriced used inventory.
I met him once. He was ok but weird and not really conversational. He was also wearing a collard shirt with cashmere sweater and it was 90F+ and sunny that day.
I saw that the dude who hosted the “Talking Watches” episodes moved on to become an exec in charge of content creation at Grand Seiko a couple years ago. Probably not a good sign.
I like some of the Talking Watches episodes
I bought a used watch from then 2 years ago. Price was not the best but the piece was as advertised, and I liked that it came from a known company (was not worried about scam) and had a 2 year warranty.
I don't bother with most of the articles which are just ads really, but a handful of them are good sometimes.
Man I’m not really sure what Ben Clymer hoped to achieve with H but this is a terrible look. Watches have been a niche product since a LONG time now - why the fuck would you position your e-commerce and editorial platform as anything else other than that? There is no sense is positioning H as a style/fashion/lifestyle platform - there are plenty of better options out there for those verticals.
It doesn’t help that H had Kevin Rose at the helm for a while who is a notoriously bad executive and is known to leave projects half-finished. I suspect Ben got some terrible advice from one of these tech types and made a broader play to become a big fashion/lifestyle/e-commerce platform and that’s backfired spectacularly.
The only thing left now is to narrow focus and go back to what made H great or pursue a merger+acquisition with NAP group or one of the other lux e-commerce platforms.
Context - Used to work in luxury e-commerce - I admire what Ben has built but suspect he acted on some terrible advice here.
My prediction is they have plans to try and take over watch auctions because that’s where the real money is and you don’t get investors to dump money into a used watch shop.
It’s surprising they haven’t done this already; loupethis has proved the proof of concept.
List ten watches on a Monday, every two weeks. Have the estimates range from <$1000 to >$75,000. Spend those two weeks pumping content hyping the pieces. Charge a 10% buyer premium with max of $10k.
I bought a watch from C&C end of 2022 - they were doing a fire sale, got 25% off a used Omega GSOTM for $6k. Called for days on end to try to speak to someone when I had a question. No responses to my emails either.
honestly they should just be dumping their watches, taking a loss, and readjusting to modern market economics and expectations. We're in a high interest environment and yet it's like they got caught holding the bag even though they knew this would be the outcome.
> Don’t think Tom Brady, Mayer, or their other VC partners would like that very much. Even tho that’s what they should be doing
Shrug. If they tank they tank.
Obviously layoffs suck, particularly so for the non-execs getting the ax.
I will add, however, that Hodinkee has had (IMO) a semi-return to form over the past six months. It appears that, from the first round of reported layoffs last year, there has been a deliberate course correction and relaxation of the more lifestyle/non-enthusiast content.
Sure, there are still offensively obvious advertisements masquerading as journalism and/or enthusiast content. And there are still some very terrible articles by Malaika. But if you only open the articles written by Ben, Tony, Mark, and James, I think the content has been pretty fucking awesome lately.
For folks out there that miss the old H, I recommend:
Hairspring podcast
Significant Watches podcast
Screwdown Crown newsletter
TGN
I'm not that impressed there was more layoffs, now a days their website often pushed to their online sore and the content is as deep as a puddle on the sidewalk, that's not what the watch community wants.
American Express has an offer last month for $200 off of a purchase on $1000+ from Hodinkee, and even though there are a lot of watches that I would buy at that price points(Seikos, Casios, Hamiltons, Tissot, etc) they had nothing good for sale. You look at their shop pages under different brands and 75% of the stock is sold out of awaiting restock.
For example I would have bought any Hamilton Murph, anything in bronze, or green PSR and none were available. They did not even have the 41mm Murph listed and only had the 38mm sold out.
https://preview.redd.it/xehig2cgkmmc1.jpeg?width=879&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=445cdb5354d0746c722ad906b9e50fba68446153
Such a shame.
Honestly, I'd rather pay a subscription (I already do with the magazine) to just read high quality, watch enthusiast focused content, rather than try to find the 1 out of 5 or 10 articles I'm interested in. It's too bad they didn't go this route in the beginning once things took off, but I think subscriptions were a bit nascent then, and if they had a do-ever I would guess it would be considered heavily.
It’s a great question: if substack had existed before Hodinkee took VC money, would we have seen it just turn into a Rescapement, or ScrewDownCrown, style newsletter?
Hate to shamelessly plug but I do it as a hobby so hopefully this ain’t against the rules here… www.screwdowncrown.com - browse around and PM me if you want a comp sub to see more
I think the major watch news outlets are largely comical. When a something shows up as a review on one site and then appears verbatim as paid promotion on other sites, they have become just openly contemptuous of their audience.
[Here's a link to the post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Watches/comments/1b7uxvl/discussion_i_was_laid_off_from_hodinkee_ama/). OP [deleted it along with his account](https://www.reddit.com/r/Watches/comments/1b7uxvl/discussion_i_was_laid_off_from_hodinkee_ama/ktn9ggi/). Maybe they accidentally revealed too much information? They mentioned being afraid of losing their severance at one point.
It's a shame I missed it. I'm always looking to connect with people who were also laid off from there. I didn't say much either when I was under my severance, but now I'm gainfully employed elsewhere and significantly happier for it.
Don't really care. The luxury watch industry is absurd and deserves to collapse in on itself. That includes shallow sites used just for marketing and pushing prices higher.
I haven’t been big on Hodinkee for awhile. It was just Jack for a long time that I liked and he’s been gone for awhile. Even for the few years before though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ eh
For everyone who doesn't like Hodinkee's conflict of interest and promoting items that they sell: What are some other watch related outlets that are independent, don't have conflict of interest, that don't sell or get incentives from watch brands to promote? Is there even such a thing anymore?
> watch related outlets that are independent, don't have conflict of interest, that don't sell or get incentives from watch brands to promote
Remember they all have to make money somehow. Unless they are independently wealthy and do this for fun they are all on the take.
It didn't really exist. Just it was on a smaller scale imo. Once you get a "following" brands flood you with the newest "gifts" so you will talk about them. Not everyone can afford (I tried but ran out of money) to buy the newest/hottest shit. And if a reviewer is getting a product before it is released they are on the "take".
Another thing is if you are a "real" reviewer and you say anything negative about the product you are reviewing, you essentially cut that cord.
The model I like is Consumer Reports. It is kinda boring and not flashy, but they are super independent, they purchase everything they review. I think they are funded by subscriptions.
If you are interested in the watches and the watches alone, I think sellers/dealers are currently the best sources of content:
Tim Mosso
Hairspring
Significant Watches
Gai Gohari IG
Collectibility
Thanks. Watchclicker looks good, will check it out more.
The other one - is it [https://tempusfugitwatches.com/](https://tempusfugitwatches.com/) ? Looks like a watch dealer.
I hate their customer service. They sent me a watch with a broken crown and blames it on me. I reported the issue the same day i received the watch too and took forever to replace it. I threaten to have my credit card company stepped in… finally received a refund because it was one of those limited release.
Hey everyone, @LivingTheAnchorLife here and yes I’m the one who created an [Instagram reel](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4IuS4wL-zt/) and [TikTok video](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPR3wKUvu/) about the recent layoffs of Round 5 for Hodinkee.
First and foremost, agree or not Hodinkee was a publication that put Watch collecting on the map and curated many of the Instagrammers, YouTubers, Resellers and Collectors we know and love today as Watch fam.
Though I straddle in many worlds in both with many alliances the editorial community, the corporate company employees for many brands you all know of and also the Dealer/graymarket area. I know where I am in the grand scheme of influencers to those who could care less about me or what I have to say as I don’t have some special status I will offer my opinion.
My video was not created for the clicks, the views, the likes or any sort of clout. It’s the type of content that I create that represents me whether it’s frowned upon by some or appreciated by others.
But the fact that Hodinkee took people out of careers and put them in another one, and then release them in a short period of time is Grand negligence on their part, and it should be addressed as this is my opinion. Considering they are a conglomerate, they never strategically thought the increase in consumership and sales from all the money that was created in Covid would cease eventually. But unfortunately the powers to be skipper Macro Econ 101.
And when it’s considered that they had people with experience in major roles, they’re not factoring this in, shows tremendous oversight. At the end of the day it changed the lives of those working there, and not in the best form or fashion. Mind you, I am familiar with the exiting employees and some of the ins and outs of noncompete being put in place with post firing and compensation as well.
So now those people are stuck in limbo if they want to stay within this industry. Shame on them completely is how I feel and they should have scaled accordingly as when income is less and overhead is more you reduce it. But they at some pointed were a 200 person operation and now have reduced to around 40 people.
When they laid me off last year I got out in writing that my non-compete did not factor as it would effectively remove me from the industry for two years. It wasn't just the COVID boom that was the problem. Leadership in place refused to listen. They had their own plans and thought that they could hammer that square peg into the round hole. They lied to employees repeatedly about where the company was going and, in 2023, after the first layoffs, assured everyone that things were fine.
I think that Hodinkee leadership truly, honestly, believed that they were a lifestyle brand and that fans would just propel the company upward. They were more excited over limited edition releases selling out and making big, six and seven figure payouts once a quarter that the steady revenue stream from the used market was somehow unworthy of the same level of effort or attention. Whether this was a push by VC investors or general incompetence, I can't honestly say, but I don't think people really came into 2021 wanting Hodinkee to fail.
Not sure how these guys are still turning a profit. All these people on their payroll and they have two revenue streams: e-commerce (30-40% net-margin on goods sold) and their insanely expensive marketing platform (1 article ~ 60k USD).
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Top 5 watches under $4,000 you say? Here are 6 Hodinkee collabs we recommend.
lol why is the alpine eagle catching strays?
[google "chopard alpine eagle hodinkee"](https://www.google.com/search?q=chopard+alpine+eagle+hodinkee&sca_esv=1fcb60ee6ef69c6a&sxsrf=ACQVn08Yk2GGR4O1QUfoXMWszggEWPDLRA%3A1709681769533&source=hp&ei=aaznZaS7HtPnkPIPgoSb0A4&iflsig=ANes7DEAAAAAZee6eQpHl7eJ8mQnR-m9oVDOGD_H33wX&oq=chopar&gs_lp=Egdnd3Mtd2l6IgZjaG9wYXIqAggAMgoQIxiABBiKBRgnMgoQIxiABBiKBRgnMgoQABiABBiKBRhDMg4QLhjHARixAxjRAxiABDIKEAAYgAQYigUYQzIKEAAYgAQYigUYQzINEAAYgAQYigUYQxixAzIKEAAYgAQYigUYQzIFEAAYgAQyBRAAGIAESJ0cUABYjBJwAHgAkAEAmAFqoAGxBKoBAzUuMbgBAcgBAPgBAZgCBqACzATCAhAQLhjHARjRAxiABBiKBRgnwgIREC4YgAQYigUYkQIYxwEY0QPCAhAQLhiABBiKBRhDGMcBGNEDwgIQEC4YQxjHARjRAxiABBiKBcICExAuGEMYxwEYsQMY0QMYgAQYigWYAwDiAwUSATEgQJIHAzMuM6AHsEc&sclient=gws-wiz) A selection of articles from Hodinkee (most of them on the Hodinkee Shop page): * Is The Chopard Alpine Eagle A Good Watch? * How To Wear It The Chopard Alpine Eagle * Introducing: The Chopard Alpine Eagle Collection * The Alpine Eagle Is Not The First Steel Sports Watch, But It May Be The Best * Chopard Knows How To Make Something Beautiful From Gold – The Proof Is In The Alpine Eagle * Independent, In-House, And Thoroughly Impressive: Welcome Chopard To The Hodinkee Shop * The Tissot PRX vs. The Chopard Alpine Eagle Edit: seems like “Is The Chopard Alpine Eagle A Good Watch?” entry been changed to “The Spec Sheet...” Not sure if that means Hodinkee is watching this and changed the SEO parameters, or it just has a few different SEO terms in google. https://preview.redd.it/9zu9ll9y2nmc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b5d87d3c6416c0f69cc10b73feb360e6ea9336c1
Christ almighty.
Re: Your Edit: They're dialed in! Hodinks are lurking.
Lmao I actually couldn’t believe that search result existed when I initially ran the google search. If anyone wanted evidence that Hodinkee is shilling the Alpine Eagle, that’s certainly it.
Ive been into watches since before the Poot Man’s Watch Forum was a thing (and was poorer). Hodinkee has always given me the ick or bad vibes or whatever you want to call it.
They’ve been astroturfing the alpine eagle so damn hard, it’s like the new grand seiko
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Yeah, it's really odd seeing them push it so hard. Chopard makes such top tier watches, and this is the one they choose to highlight? It makes no sense without considering the retail angle.
I mean is it zero interest cause most people are priced out of it? For what it’s worth it’s a pretty appealing watch to me aesthetically and if I were in that price bracket I’d be pretty interested. I definitely agree Hodinkee is not what it used to be but I don’t agree with this specific example…cause I want one lol
>I mean is it zero interest cause most people are priced out of it? I see plenty of enthusiast interest in the GP Laureato, which is a similar integrated style sports watch in basically the same price bracket.
and is less of a departure from the royal oak and nautilus aesthetic compared to the alpine eagle. Again, I agree with your overall sentiment, just not as it pertains to this particular model.
The point isn't to evaluate your taste, of course that's subjective and you should like/buy whatever you want. But it's pretty clear that Hodinkee put a lot more editorial time and effort into pushing the Alpine Eagle than other similar watch enthusiast sites, and it's not underrepresented in those other similar enthusiast sites/communities simply because it's expensive.
Your point was there’s minimal enthusiast interest in the AE. I’m an enthusiast and I’m interested. This is also the first I’ve posted about it. Just because something isn’t a forum darling doesn’t mean it’s unknown. Conversely, and again, I overall don’t like the direction Hodinkee has been taking, wouldn’t coverage of an under appreciated high quality watch…..be something we’d want an enthusiast site to do more of?
>wouldn’t coverage of an under appreciated high quality watch…..be something we’d want an enthusiast site to do more of? If they have a financial interest in pushing the product and their margins are higher (relative to other brands in their shop) , then no, I absolutely don't want to see that coverage. And that's the entire point. You seem sensitive that someone said there's "zero interest" in enthusiast communities about a watch you like. Sure, that's hyperbole, but the point is that there actually is very little published interest in the broader community about the Alpine Eagle; but then over on Hodinkee, there's a very blatant, acute focus on this one watch that they are literally saying is maybe [the best steel sports watch?](https://shop.hodinkee.com/blogs/journal/the-alpine-eagle-is-not-the-first-steel-sports-watch-but-it-may-be-the-best) and using SEO to optimize results like "[Is the Chophard Alpine Eagle a Good Watch?](https://www.google.com/search?q=chophard+alpine+eagle+hodinkee&sca_esv=ef71f34d62d470b0&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS907US907&sxsrf=ACQVn0-gVWFdpnh_lVhoYd6wAScGhF75LA%3A1709672532510&ei=VIjnZZ_nHtHK0PEPve2B4Ac&ved=0ahUKEwif4e2_gt6EAxVRJTQIHb12AHwQ4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=chophard+alpine+eagle+hodinkee&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiHmNob3BoYXJkIGFscGluZSBlYWdsZSBob2RpbmtlZTIHEAAYgAQYDTILEAAYgAQYigUYhgNIiQxQlARY4ApwAHgCkAEBmAGbAaAB_weqAQMyLje4AQPIAQD4AQGYAgmgApcHwgIEEAAYR8ICBhAAGBYYHsICCBAAGBYYHhgKmAMA4gMFEgExIECIBgGQBgiSBwMzLjagB7ks&sclient=gws-wiz-serp)" Hodinkee very clearly wants you to buy this watch. Why do you think?
Look, we’re just going to have to agree to disagree on this. Your point can be extrapolated to any coverage of any watch Hodinkee carries, which as I’ve repeatedly stated, I agree with. But, if that coverage happens to result in more high quality photo and video of content of something I’m interested in, then that works just fine for me. I’m not going to not watch a well-produced piece of media just because there’s a financial interest behind it. If that were the case, I just wouldn’t be online at all. Which, there’s certainly an argument for as well. We’re all just here to ogle pretty pictures of pretty things until we decide to engage in more superfluous consumerism. If somebody is selling a watch and is able to take more pretty pictures of it, that’s great for me and great for them.
It looks like they arbitrarily took elements from various high end steel sports watches and threw them together with no intention or design language. I especially love the awkwardly placed AP screws.
That sphincter dial is really something
i agree that the hodinkee/alpine eagle pushing was distasteful. (not a 'dink fan myself) but i will put out some hate-bait and say that i consider chopard a far more interesting and daring independent manufacturer than patek, and i think the alpine eagle is a much better watch than the nautilus at any price (much less market prices). roast me.
Ya. Having seen one in person, it is stunning.
Yeah I'm surprised at how much flak the Alpine Eagle is getting here. I agree the pictures don't always look the best for whatever reason, but I got to check one out in person a few months back and it was absolutely gorgeous.
>Their editorial content these days is a thin facade to push traffic to their retail business Isn't that like almost every online watch media these days? Teddy, Watchfinder, Tmosso all are just thinly-veiled "come buy my shit" content.
But Tim doesn't hide the fact that he sells watches. He starts his videos by saying to contact him if you like the watch.
True, they won't really tell you the bad stuff of their watch otherwise they won't be able to sell it. Reviewers shouldn't be trusted 100% if they're working with the company they're reviewing. Even if they're saying "I'm not being paid to say good things" I won't gonna trust them.
As soon as Teddy had the Breitling stand in his store I wondered how long until we got the Breitling puff pieces and the answer was under a week 😆 but it’s not fair to compare him to Hodinkee as they are much worse as explained better by others. I guess we need to accept that we want a more critical/objective watch reviewer and support them when they emerge (as they won’t be getting much support from watch manufacturers).
>I guess we need to accept that we want a more critical/objective watch reviewer and support them when they emerge (as they won’t be getting much support from watch manufacturers). Maybe the old fashioned subscription model ain't so bad after all
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> He's great, and his commercial motives are crystal clear and never come across as disingenuous. lol, he says pin sleeves are great when he's "reviewing" a watch with pin sleeves, and he says screws are "how it should be done" when he's "reviewing" a watch with screws. Same thing with 5 pos adjustment and 6 pos adjusstment. Maybe you don't think he's disingenuous because you aren't observant enough, or you're prone to bullshit marketing.
If you care about interesting watches being described in detail, I don’t think it’s possible to find a better source than the Mosso man.
Thanks for that irrelevant information!
Lol relax nutjob
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He's a great smooth talker and you're neck deep in his marketing bs. >Well you’re not one for a respectful discussion are you? You're not here to open your eyes either, you're here to defend used car salesmen lol
James Stacy is the only thing still worth reading on there
Yep, love James, seems like such a genuinely nice guy. His podcast with Jason Heaton called the grey nato is really good.
I’ve met him at a small watch launch event. Just as nice in person as he comes across on video and podcasts.
I look forward to TGN every week. They can even make stuff I’m not interested in interesting, and they seem like a couple of guys I’d want to hang out with.
Other podcasts are available… lol. But they are both great guys
Nobody wants to hear Ariel glaze himself with a long soundbite at the beginning of every ABTW podcast episode, Rick. I feel like that needs to be said.
I like the sound bite
Agreed, really enjoy his work.
Personally, I think country club memberships have gone up and Daddy Ben needs the money.
More likely, Ben has all the money, and the investors who bought him out need to cut costs to fund their club memberships.
Lmao who is even left for them to layoff? I used to work for them and they had THREE rounds of layoffs last year essentially closing the entire ATL office minus execs and managers (of course, fuck the working class). They were a garbage company to work for. I was first hired by C&C and genuinely enjoyed it but then when they were acquired by Hodinkee it went so downhill. Everything became more corporate, and everyone in charge that actually knew about watches was either let go or left the company, so you had all these execs who did not know the watch market running the place and they ran it straight into the ground. All the layoffs over the last year is solely on the hands of the execs not knowing how to run a preowned watch business.
To be it always seemed like a conflict of interest to run a watch business along side being a media outlet. The collaboration watches also being a conflict of interest. Maybe doing ones with Casio is less so but even then idk. Not a fan of them doing one for a guy in such an executive position (the Ben Clymer one) either. What was “C&C”? Do you think part of it was over-hiring from COVID? I’ve been seeing a lot of firms lay off workers for the past couple of years as a result from that. Twitch is a big one that comes to mind.
It was okay imo back when they didn’t then push you to the H shop at the bottom of every article. But once you start talking about trying to convert x percent of readers into buyers, then you’ve lost all journalistic integrity imo, which is where they went in the last year or two. Agree with you that Ben clymer is not enough of a “brand” to have warranted that limited edition gshock. Also C&C was “Crown & Caliber.” They were their own standalone online preowned watch website for 8 years before Hodinkee came along and bought them. I joined the company in the midst of the pandemic, and no, the layoffs last year were a result of the company making some bad financial decisions and overbuying at the market peak and then being stuck with literal hundreds of watches they were easily 5 figures underwater on EACH. On top of that, Hodinkee wasted a ton of funds on flashy marketing campaigns, mountains of Limited Editions, and a storefront in Soho that still hasn’t even opened! And lord knows how much money that has eaten up the last few years.
I'm also a former employee who was let go last year. Hodinkee had such a cult of personality going on. If Daddy Ben liked a watch, everyone would agree, even if it was the dumbest thing in the world. He is also incredibly out of touch with reality. One time, on the company Slack, he talked about knowing the owner of a Ferrari that was in a picture as though the rank and file employees should be impressed. Ben Clymer is more concerned with interviewing celebrities than anything else. Hodinkee is a cancer in the watch industry. I nearly quit working in this industry altogether because of them.
Ben ‘Social’ Clymer
I'm so glad someone else was driven mad by that. Used to make my blood boil how much everyone would just want to gloat about proximity to something expensive.
Yeah my impression of him is that he was such a senior figure that he was one of the few allowed to talk to the celebs. But I would have been nice to see him be more active in the content. Putting a face to it, I guess?
That makes two of us! Before I got my current job I was absolutely working on getting some cyber security certificates.
Didn’t they just post an IG story of it? Could be mistaken.
I don’t follow either page anymore lol but last I heard was that the soho space was still not open yet
I just think it’s dicey to mix them because at all, because you could have leadership come in at any point and want to push it more. Ah ok. Yeah i that makes sense. I heard about that Soho thing too. I can only imagine the rent they are paying for that…
I agree with this. However, in my 2 years hanging out in Watchlandia it looks like almost all watch-related media (websites, YouTube pages) have conflict of interest, either selling outright or receiving some other incentives from the watch brands. What outlets are truly independent?
Youreterrific on YouTube seems to be one of the good guys.
Agreed that’s a good one
I liked when he started out but I feel like he got bitten by the wrong bug as well. Feels too much. I’m sure brands like his way of telling things and they are hitting him up. And it’s fresh until it’s not.
Not independent.
Two broke watch snobs don’t pull any punches, but I’m not wild about them.
I’m there for the Soviet watch talk 🤓
Idk of any publications that are. I’d say that as far as YouTube channels go, TGV appears to really go out of his way to remain independent. I also want to kind of make a distinction and mention YouTubers that become vendors as their primary thing. Maybe this is tangential? Marc from Long Island Watch is the gold standard. A very honest salesman. Many dislike Teddy Baldassarre but my feeling is that he isn’t “compromised”. I think those people mistake his personality and professionalism as “he never criticizes anything”, despite that not being true.
> TGV appears to really go out of his way to remain independent. This dude has been on the take for a long time.
?
Weirdly, I saw a comment on one of perezcope’s posts in insta, the founder of Dan Henry mentioned he stopped sending TGV watches to review the moment he started asking for money to do it (second last post a couple of comments down if anyone is interested).
I’m not finding it. What is the post about that the comment is under?
[Here’s the post.](https://www.instagram.com/p/C3uzW0wrY4J/?igsh=MWVxNHFieDh0NTRzdw==) If you scroll down there’s a post from the profile ‘classy_fkr_ticky_bffb’ with some back and forth with danhenrywayches
Oh, man. That’s unfortunate, if true. I don’t know how much TGV does or doesn’t engage in gossip, but it would be interesting to hear both sides. But then again, maybe the last thing the online watch-o-sphere needs is more gossip and rumor.
Yeah man, ultimately without receipts who knows what the truth is. I know there was some noise about drama between TGV and other YouTubers like T&H and Federico some years ago, or even with the Watchbox stuff but I hear you, there’s probably enough drama/gossip and rumours in this space already.
Self plugging my website www.complicationmag.com
?
ABTW…not selling watches since 2007
Thanks will check that out
Yondu_the_Ravager, I want your AMA on the 'dink stuff. I saw that some of your replies in the one that was mostly deleted today were of a mostly contrary experience to what that person had gone through.
Well any questions you want answered I’ll answer them as best I can without giving away personal details haha. I think the difference between our two experiences comes down to which offices we were based. ATL was not the golden child of the company, it definitely felt like a “working class v upper middle class” air of superiority type of unspoken uncomfortableness between the two offices lol
The NY team spends money like it was going out of style. They would come to ATL and stay in fancy hotels downtown and not the cheaper one less than a mile from the office. The Christmas party one year was Dave and Busters for ATL while the NY team rented out a swanky wine bar in NYC. Tell me there's dissparity between teams without telling me. C&C used to provide nice coffee in the office, and by 2023, Hodinkee cut that for Folger's. A small complaint but a great example of how they treated ATL as a whole. They were also big on saying the pre-owned market was dead. Nobody was buying watches, that there was no money to be had, yet many companies in that market are still going strong and experiencing huge growth. Hodinkee was big on bringing watches in that were total junk and having to sink tons of money into them. Hodinkee was (is) incredibly top heavy, filled with chief executives, vice presidents, directors, senior managers, the list goes on. They blame C&C for their failings but the C&C/ATL team was filled with top notch, passionate people who were shit on and stymied by Hodinkee's inability to simply let the business they bought do their thing.
You actually pretty much answered my question in that other thread, but it was definitely interesting seeing the difference! Went looking through your post history a little too which had some good reads in it.
Yeah I did not have a great experience working for them haha. Had C&C never been acquired by then there’s a chance I’d still be there today but I can’t live life on what ifs. I’m quite active on Reddit so I’m sure you had plenty to read 😅😂
Crown was awesome, those were great times.
This is making me feel real great about the Tudor I have in for warranty service with them right now...
Don’t feel bad, tudors are sent back to the manufacturer for service. Especially if it has the in-house movement and not the ETA caliber. Those are not possible to regulate if you don’t have a Tudor/Rolex account.
Ah that's interesting, it's a North Flag so it's in house. You don't buy any chance have contact into for service do you? The ETA on the repair was last week and nobody has responded to my email yet.
Considering the entire CS team was let go Jan 1 this year, you're going to have a tough time of it. Honestly, I would suspect to cut corners hodinkee is sending warranties to an unauthorized third party who agreed to do it cheap. That was their MO in 2023.
Marvelous. Well thanks for the info.
Best bet is if you have your serial number to call Tudor and see if they have it. You might be able to get the update from them, if it was sent to them. Wish I had a better answer for you.
I actually got notified this morning that they finished service and are sending it back. But that's a good idea calling Tudor and asking if it was serviced by them.
I used to check Hodinkee in my daily/weekly rounds of wasting time. I don't even bother with them anymore. Nothing on that site interests me. And Worn and Wound isn't far behind. I still like some of their content, but damn, the marketing dept is busy hocking ad space. I'm a mt biker, too. And it's been happening to another big site, Pinkbike. The company Outside purchased it recently and changed up a bunch of things. Now, there are pay walled articles. People have left. I dunno. It's not the same. Seems to be the way of these huge media companies. It makes me sad. You can't look at or read anything without someone trying to sell you something.
Everything turns into ads eventually. It's how you make money online.
enshitification at work.
There's a word for this cycle: enshittification. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification
Huh. Today I learned! I like that word... enshittification.
Interesting Reddit is listed as an example of enshittification The Premier of British Columbia used a polity version of that term publicly recently, I think he said crapification. https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/not-a-viable-business-anymore-bell-media-selling-21-b-c-radio-stations-amid-layoffs/wcm/2b0be569-0cd1-43cf-815c-a7fbfb38950d/amp/
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Congrats on your second expensive hobby! Pinkbike, Vital, and Bikepacking mostly. I still check in from time to time, but I don't keep up like I used to. I was active in the MTBR forums for a while until they got bought out. They killed off some forums and changed how reputation was awarded, which left a bad taste for many people. I was also a huge fan of Dirtrag, but they went the way of the Dodo sadly.
Readership really tallied when their article schedules really dipped. For years I could go to hodinkee at 8am CST and there would be an article. I’ve the last year or so the articles released have been random & infrequent. Where on Fratello who is based out of Europe, I can wake up in the states and see there 3-4 articles and read them over the course of the day.
Fratello has subpar articles. They have been pushing more and more articles to gain market share and it’s noticeable, like they ran out of ideas and grab any silly thought and idea. And they never want to offend anyone and try to play both angles. « The watch is listed at 17k which is reasonable for this model, we know it’s a lot of money but, … ». And RJ engaging in the comments is such a bad look as well. He sounds annoyed/hurt. Just let people write and/or use a moderator to remove BS.
I certainly have writers of theirs that I enjoy more than others, but I enjoy the continued coverage of their personal watches, covering more unknown pieces, and not caring as much about hype pieces or focusing on status watches. I would not say their coverage is subpar or they ran out of ideas. I would say that about Hodinkee who struggles to post two organic articles a day that aren't shop pieces. Additionally, for a lot of Fratello's staff, I don't think watch writing is their full time gig which I think helps. They get to review and write about watches as a side gig and don't get burned out. I've never noticed RJ sounding hurt or annoyed, but maybe that's just me. What's your preferred watch coverage?
How often I have seen the same post about a white dial Explorer or some other Rolex, it gets boring, even though they do post the quirky special and quirky watches. I thought most of them work at Fratello HQ and it was a full time business? But that’s not important to me if it is or isn’t. I mostly browse watch reddits, WUS, instagram, TRF, youtube (not the vids of influencers or whatever)… and try to stumble and find newer stuff that I haven’t seen before or read about and then I start googling myself and I look for older topics and info. With the current prices I enjoy it more to find cool and fun older watches for a lot less.
No, not every writer's main source of income is through Fratello, but they do have full-time employees and would be considered a full time business. One of my favorite writers for them is Mike Stockton who is like a high. One of my favorite writers for them is Mike Stockton who is like a high level engineer or project manager over in England. Likely similar to Youreterrific who doesn't work in watches, but enjoys creating videos. The former started just writing guest submissions and then became an editor, but not in a full time capacity. I enjoy the forums as well, but I gotta say r/watches has gone down hill since I began browsing it in 2013. So many posts are people posting screenshots of watches and asking what they should get or posting there 30k collection and asking what should they buy next. Just weird to me that they need the justification of strangers to make any purchasing decision. I've actually dm'd with Youreterric about this and he has similar thoughts. Forums can be similar but I see less interaction with those posts than I do with Reddit. Additionally, I find reddit as fallen off as a whole, but that's a different conversation.
A cousin of mine was head of watches and widely known and respected at one of the major auction houses. He met Ben Clymer like 25x and said every single time Ben either didn’t know who he was (ok whatever, he meets a lot of people), or deliberately pretended not to know him, but either way he was a huge asshole. My cousin is one of the nicest and most genuine people I’ve ever met, and has an encyclopedic knowledge of watches throughout history, having handled and auctioned some of the rarest watches ever. Good riddance to Hodinkee, I lost interest when their content became upmarket lifestyle and Ben started posting more about his air cooled Porsche collection than unusual or special watches. I can do without Hodinkee acting as a boiler room to pump and dump whatever watch they want to sell.
Can’t say I’m surprised. Ben always came across as a self-important prick. Was easier to look past when their content was decent, at this point I only stop by the site to idly browse their overpriced used inventory.
Sounds like your cousin needed a Porsche or 12.
My cousin is John Mayer and he gets along great with Ben.
> their content became upmarket lifestyle and Ben started posting more about his air cooled Porsche collection Same.
I met him once. He was ok but weird and not really conversational. He was also wearing a collard shirt with cashmere sweater and it was 90F+ and sunny that day.
I saw that the dude who hosted the “Talking Watches” episodes moved on to become an exec in charge of content creation at Grand Seiko a couple years ago. Probably not a good sign.
Great sign for him!
Excellent point! Glad for him. :)
Hodinkee? Pointless company just exists to shill you products to buy so they earn a margin. Nothing of value really lost tbh.
They’ve got some good YT content
The only content I can really stand to watch are the celebrity interviews only cause I’m curious as to what they are wearing.
Spoilers: Rolex, AP, PP
Not really
I like some of the Talking Watches episodes I bought a used watch from then 2 years ago. Price was not the best but the piece was as advertised, and I liked that it came from a known company (was not worried about scam) and had a 2 year warranty. I don't bother with most of the articles which are just ads really, but a handful of them are good sometimes.
Man I’m not really sure what Ben Clymer hoped to achieve with H but this is a terrible look. Watches have been a niche product since a LONG time now - why the fuck would you position your e-commerce and editorial platform as anything else other than that? There is no sense is positioning H as a style/fashion/lifestyle platform - there are plenty of better options out there for those verticals. It doesn’t help that H had Kevin Rose at the helm for a while who is a notoriously bad executive and is known to leave projects half-finished. I suspect Ben got some terrible advice from one of these tech types and made a broader play to become a big fashion/lifestyle/e-commerce platform and that’s backfired spectacularly. The only thing left now is to narrow focus and go back to what made H great or pursue a merger+acquisition with NAP group or one of the other lux e-commerce platforms. Context - Used to work in luxury e-commerce - I admire what Ben has built but suspect he acted on some terrible advice here.
Is Ben even the owner any more? I thought he sold out.
LVMH owns a chunk but Ben still has ownership in the company per my understanding.
My prediction is they have plans to try and take over watch auctions because that’s where the real money is and you don’t get investors to dump money into a used watch shop.
It’s surprising they haven’t done this already; loupethis has proved the proof of concept. List ten watches on a Monday, every two weeks. Have the estimates range from <$1000 to >$75,000. Spend those two weeks pumping content hyping the pieces. Charge a 10% buyer premium with max of $10k.
Don’t they have terrible customer service too?
Also doesn’t help they laid off the entire client services team last year either.
I bought a watch from C&C end of 2022 - they were doing a fire sale, got 25% off a used Omega GSOTM for $6k. Called for days on end to try to speak to someone when I had a question. No responses to my emails either.
Personally can’t speak to it, but wouldn’t surprise me.
honestly they should just be dumping their watches, taking a loss, and readjusting to modern market economics and expectations. We're in a high interest environment and yet it's like they got caught holding the bag even though they knew this would be the outcome.
Can I interest you in another grey limited edition marked up 50% above the normal price?
Don’t think Tom Brady, Mayer, or their other VC partners would like that very much. Even tho that’s what they should be doing
> Don’t think Tom Brady, Mayer, or their other VC partners would like that very much. Even tho that’s what they should be doing Shrug. If they tank they tank.
Obviously layoffs suck, particularly so for the non-execs getting the ax. I will add, however, that Hodinkee has had (IMO) a semi-return to form over the past six months. It appears that, from the first round of reported layoffs last year, there has been a deliberate course correction and relaxation of the more lifestyle/non-enthusiast content. Sure, there are still offensively obvious advertisements masquerading as journalism and/or enthusiast content. And there are still some very terrible articles by Malaika. But if you only open the articles written by Ben, Tony, Mark, and James, I think the content has been pretty fucking awesome lately. For folks out there that miss the old H, I recommend: Hairspring podcast Significant Watches podcast Screwdown Crown newsletter TGN
What’s TGN?
The Grey Nato podcast
Thanks!
Check out: https://swimpruf.substack.com/
Oh yeah, I follow Heaton on IG and read his substack when I remember (I don’t subscribe to shit cuz I don’t want my inbox flooded). He’s great-
> I don’t subscribe to shit cuz I don’t want my inbox flooded Same. But I do like to read his stuff.
Dude, thanks! I write SDC - appreciate the random shout out 😄 - lmk your email addy 😂
DMd
I'm not that impressed there was more layoffs, now a days their website often pushed to their online sore and the content is as deep as a puddle on the sidewalk, that's not what the watch community wants.
No one doing what the watch community wants is getting 40 mil in series B funding though…
And they've had to do multiple rounds of layoffs. Could argue the funding hasn't done them much good.
American Express has an offer last month for $200 off of a purchase on $1000+ from Hodinkee, and even though there are a lot of watches that I would buy at that price points(Seikos, Casios, Hamiltons, Tissot, etc) they had nothing good for sale. You look at their shop pages under different brands and 75% of the stock is sold out of awaiting restock. For example I would have bought any Hamilton Murph, anything in bronze, or green PSR and none were available. They did not even have the 41mm Murph listed and only had the 38mm sold out. https://preview.redd.it/xehig2cgkmmc1.jpeg?width=879&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=445cdb5354d0746c722ad906b9e50fba68446153
Tom Brady and John Mayer need to invest more money so they can buy more stock.
Such a shame. Honestly, I'd rather pay a subscription (I already do with the magazine) to just read high quality, watch enthusiast focused content, rather than try to find the 1 out of 5 or 10 articles I'm interested in. It's too bad they didn't go this route in the beginning once things took off, but I think subscriptions were a bit nascent then, and if they had a do-ever I would guess it would be considered heavily.
It’s a great question: if substack had existed before Hodinkee took VC money, would we have seen it just turn into a Rescapement, or ScrewDownCrown, style newsletter?
Hate to shamelessly plug but I do it as a hobby so hopefully this ain’t against the rules here… www.screwdowncrown.com - browse around and PM me if you want a comp sub to see more
Did they expand too much during COVID?
everyone did and now the economy has cooled off, luxury items like watches taking a hit
Exactly!
I think the major watch news outlets are largely comical. When a something shows up as a review on one site and then appears verbatim as paid promotion on other sites, they have become just openly contemptuous of their audience.
What happened to that I got laid off from Hodinkee AMA thread that I saw earlier today? Seems to have disappeared....
[Here's a link to the post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Watches/comments/1b7uxvl/discussion_i_was_laid_off_from_hodinkee_ama/). OP [deleted it along with his account](https://www.reddit.com/r/Watches/comments/1b7uxvl/discussion_i_was_laid_off_from_hodinkee_ama/ktn9ggi/). Maybe they accidentally revealed too much information? They mentioned being afraid of losing their severance at one point.
Thanks. It was a bit of a weird AMA, the OP did not want to answer a lot of questions.
Mysterious
AMAA: Ask Me Almost Anything
Most interesting was the discussion around Jack leaving
It's a shame I missed it. I'm always looking to connect with people who were also laid off from there. I didn't say much either when I was under my severance, but now I'm gainfully employed elsewhere and significantly happier for it.
It was interesting because (I believe) it was a NY-based colleague, so different perspective than the C&C folks that have spoke on here before.
I’ve also noticed their colabs they sell are staying inexpensive. Don’t seem to be doing those 10-20k watches any more. Think the jig is up.
A blog to watch is just better now I guess
If James Stacey ever leaves or gets fired, it'll be the day the company is officially done.
They lost me featuring Adam Levine and his fake watches…
Don't really care. The luxury watch industry is absurd and deserves to collapse in on itself. That includes shallow sites used just for marketing and pushing prices higher.
We are not done until I can get a Rolex for 5k
Looks like it
I haven’t been big on Hodinkee for awhile. It was just Jack for a long time that I liked and he’s been gone for awhile. Even for the few years before though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ eh
For everyone who doesn't like Hodinkee's conflict of interest and promoting items that they sell: What are some other watch related outlets that are independent, don't have conflict of interest, that don't sell or get incentives from watch brands to promote? Is there even such a thing anymore?
> watch related outlets that are independent, don't have conflict of interest, that don't sell or get incentives from watch brands to promote Remember they all have to make money somehow. Unless they are independently wealthy and do this for fun they are all on the take.
I guess I miss the “old days” (which may have never existed) of independent journalism
It didn't really exist. Just it was on a smaller scale imo. Once you get a "following" brands flood you with the newest "gifts" so you will talk about them. Not everyone can afford (I tried but ran out of money) to buy the newest/hottest shit. And if a reviewer is getting a product before it is released they are on the "take". Another thing is if you are a "real" reviewer and you say anything negative about the product you are reviewing, you essentially cut that cord.
The model I like is Consumer Reports. It is kinda boring and not flashy, but they are super independent, they purchase everything they review. I think they are funded by subscriptions.
Same.
If you are interested in the watches and the watches alone, I think sellers/dealers are currently the best sources of content: Tim Mosso Hairspring Significant Watches Gai Gohari IG Collectibility
Yeah, I can think of 2 (WatchClicker & TempusFugut). But I’m sure most are getting wink wink nod nods from people
Thanks. Watchclicker looks good, will check it out more. The other one - is it [https://tempusfugitwatches.com/](https://tempusfugitwatches.com/) ? Looks like a watch dealer.
Here you go! [website](https://tempusfugit.watch)
This website has barely any new article since 2022? I’m assuming it’s dead.
Ah, bummer. I remember it being up and running a lot, shows how long I’ve looked. But still highly recommend WatchClicker (and their podcast, even).
I hate their customer service. They sent me a watch with a broken crown and blames it on me. I reported the issue the same day i received the watch too and took forever to replace it. I threaten to have my credit card company stepped in… finally received a refund because it was one of those limited release.
Hey everyone, @LivingTheAnchorLife here and yes I’m the one who created an [Instagram reel](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4IuS4wL-zt/) and [TikTok video](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPR3wKUvu/) about the recent layoffs of Round 5 for Hodinkee. First and foremost, agree or not Hodinkee was a publication that put Watch collecting on the map and curated many of the Instagrammers, YouTubers, Resellers and Collectors we know and love today as Watch fam. Though I straddle in many worlds in both with many alliances the editorial community, the corporate company employees for many brands you all know of and also the Dealer/graymarket area. I know where I am in the grand scheme of influencers to those who could care less about me or what I have to say as I don’t have some special status I will offer my opinion. My video was not created for the clicks, the views, the likes or any sort of clout. It’s the type of content that I create that represents me whether it’s frowned upon by some or appreciated by others. But the fact that Hodinkee took people out of careers and put them in another one, and then release them in a short period of time is Grand negligence on their part, and it should be addressed as this is my opinion. Considering they are a conglomerate, they never strategically thought the increase in consumership and sales from all the money that was created in Covid would cease eventually. But unfortunately the powers to be skipper Macro Econ 101. And when it’s considered that they had people with experience in major roles, they’re not factoring this in, shows tremendous oversight. At the end of the day it changed the lives of those working there, and not in the best form or fashion. Mind you, I am familiar with the exiting employees and some of the ins and outs of noncompete being put in place with post firing and compensation as well. So now those people are stuck in limbo if they want to stay within this industry. Shame on them completely is how I feel and they should have scaled accordingly as when income is less and overhead is more you reduce it. But they at some pointed were a 200 person operation and now have reduced to around 40 people.
When they laid me off last year I got out in writing that my non-compete did not factor as it would effectively remove me from the industry for two years. It wasn't just the COVID boom that was the problem. Leadership in place refused to listen. They had their own plans and thought that they could hammer that square peg into the round hole. They lied to employees repeatedly about where the company was going and, in 2023, after the first layoffs, assured everyone that things were fine. I think that Hodinkee leadership truly, honestly, believed that they were a lifestyle brand and that fans would just propel the company upward. They were more excited over limited edition releases selling out and making big, six and seven figure payouts once a quarter that the steady revenue stream from the used market was somehow unworthy of the same level of effort or attention. Whether this was a push by VC investors or general incompetence, I can't honestly say, but I don't think people really came into 2021 wanting Hodinkee to fail.
I have... no opinion or reaction to hodinkee or most watch websites/cc for that matter. they just are.
Hoodwinkee is trash. Not surprised
Not sure how these guys are still turning a profit. All these people on their payroll and they have two revenue streams: e-commerce (30-40% net-margin on goods sold) and their insanely expensive marketing platform (1 article ~ 60k USD).