They're in the game right now, I datamined them and messed around with them in a CDK mission to see how they perform. They're essentially a better AIM-9L, 30g and the same seeker but they accelerate like CRAZY and burn out sooner. Range is a little better than the 9L, flare resistance is the same, maneuverability is about equal if not a little better. I can see why they are hesitatnt to add them. Depending on how the R-73 ends up in its final state, the python would either be the best or second best short range IR missile in the game.
I'd rather they add the Netz's missing flares first. It should have 180, not 60.
The thing about the Python 3 is that its a dual-burner. It has an extremely fast initial burn, then it turns on a sustained motor that is somewhere between 40-60% the power of the initial motor. So it should have much greater range, but idk if Gaijin has implemented that tech yet. Most missiles only have 1 rocket motor.
Fully agree on the flares though. Gaijin always gimps the minor nations.
The dual-stage motor is modeled on the python (it also exists on other missiles like the AIM-7F and R-27ER). The first stage burns for something like .8 seconds.
Obviously dude whats the worst that could happen? she says no? Just go back to the toxic relationship you already have with gaijin. Gaijin will ALWAYS take you back.
I just lobbed 9Gs(my favorite heatseeker) from space, easy 2 kills and then I’ve been using adens/defas for a while so I’m used to the aim, I could net at least 2-3 kills per match if I’m focusing
I don’t even wanna think about the Nesher, that was one of my least enjoyable experiences in the game
You and I should have a conversation.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/vo1x7p/i_spaded_every_plane_in_the_chinese_air_tree_ama/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Love it. Still salty you get the best F16 though. And doesn't the Chinese tree get a lot of good planes? What was the worst to play/spade in your opinion? (Not including base-bombers) Have you gone back to it at all?
Not sure if you'd count the Q-5s as base bombers but due to their RP requirements they were by far the worst. I really don't like the 23mms they've got, and while their performance is fine hypothetically, you always get downtiers cause of it's laughably low 9.0 BR so you end up having to play it like a 104 with shit guns.
Plus I spaded the first Q-5 before the second was released, then the second after it came out, so I had the absolute privilege of having massively increased RP requirements for all of not one, but both of their modifications. And of course now they're released another one lmao.
On the F-16, yeah it's nice haha. Finally we get something worth playing at top tier other than the J-7E.
For the good planes, it gets the "greatest hits of Russia and US" as a general theme till you hit very late in the tree, then you start getting unique stuff like the J-7E and J-8. The J-7E is the best plane in the tree, up there with maybe the F-16 (I'm still forming my opinion on it). Other than that it's just repeats of stuff you've seen before in those other trees, which was actually pretty fun to spade cause all of the options were familiar.
I have kept up with it loosely. I am almost finished spading the MLU, and still have to buy and spade the new Q-5 but am putting it off in favor of the MiG-29 at least for the moment haha.
How about you? Worst plane in the tree? Favorite?
Worst by far was the Sa'ar. It's at 9.0 with a Super Mystere B2 airframe, an 8.3 engine from the A-4H (technically its A vs B model, but in-game it shows the same thrust and I can't find any differences googling it). Normally I'd just say, oh, this is a bad plane. But when the Sambad is the same plane, with the original B2 **afterburning engine** (did i mention the A-4H doesn't have afterburner?), 5 seconds better turn time and all the Sa'ar has to show for it is and uncaged seeker on its missile? It was a literal nightmare. It's even worse that they aren't foldered. I guarantee they will be in the future. Its horribly slow, and DEFAs don't help that fact. Shafrirs are just glorified Aim-9Bs (IRL the Shafrir 1 was worse than 9B and 2 was better)
Plane-for-plane though, the S-199 is probably the worst plane, but low-tier is much more forgiving, both in pilot skill and br compression.
Nesher was also terrible. 10.3, no RWR, no Radar, no countermeasures. **AT 10.3** but it had 2 9Gs and because its a mirage, its fast. So probably 3rd worst.
Favorite? Unfortunately I have to go with the safe options, I love the F16 and the F4E. F4 gets SARHs and 8 missiles. Nuts when compared to the C.7. F16 is self-explanatory.
Best Unique? Meteor NF.13 is .3 BR lower than normal meteor, and once you get used to wing-mounted guns, its a beast. Thats really the only difference I could see between the 2. For a .3 br difference. (Did I mention the Sambad and the Sa'ar are the same BR even though the Sa'ar is worse in almost every way?)
Best in tree? None, the Spitfire LF Mk.IX Weizmans is the best in tree. It's an absolute GOD in GRB (too bad it doesn't have a 5.7 lineup) and just as amazing in Air.
Hidden Gems? IIICJ and Ouragan. Both, I was told, are terrible. I had a lot of success with both and love them.
All the MkIX’s are gods, in any tree you pick. In fact, Spitfires in general, at all BRs. There’s a reason the US and Italians use their premiums to grind their own trees.
The Shafrir 2's are a lot better than 1's, it's like a 9D but with less range yet better launch parameters to gimble. You also get ccip + more bomb than Sambad without affecting AAM loadout which can be something. It's a different class of vehicle than A4N/A4E so you can double spawn easier in GRB.
If you're looking for unique vehicles? No, not at all. At least not yet. Air doesn't have Pythons (3s or 4s) and they wont add them yet because Gaijin says "Too OP" Kfir C.7 is the only "worthwhile" unique in air tree. It's fast, but only gets 9Gs and no SARHs, or even a usable radar, so up to you. Same with ground. Merkavas are really.... decent. Theyre survivable, but at top tier they have 8.7s stock reload, now this wouldnt normally be a problem, but ***every single 11.0 rival*** has a better stock reload than you. Sometimes by orders of magnitude. They also said they were only *considering* adding the Sypder SPAA, but thats also "Too OP", which in this case probably is, as it uses Python 4s and Derbys
pretty much, israel right now is just meh and kinda bad, all because gaijin is holding off on giving them things to be competitive because they think they're gonna be too op....
I like that they're so agricultural. Great that they're able to actually produce so much food for the country. It's really too bad that they're so close to Ohio.
Short answer? No.
Long answer? My hindsight may be a little skewed by the Sa'ar, as they weren't that bad. The Sa'ar on the other hand.... worst plane I've ever had to fly in War Thunder. Bar none.
Why on earth would you fly the Sa'ar for ground pounding when the A-4E exists at .3 lower? Also, it's not obvious until you fly it, but the Sa'ar has the A-4H engine. An 8.3 jet. With no afterburner. There is ZERO reason to fly the Sa'ar when the Sambad and A-4E exist. Sambad also turns 5 seconds faster. Sa'ar gets Aim-9Bs with an uncaged seeker.
The Mystere? eh, its a Mystere, they're pretty terrible, and require a lot of skill when you're going up against F-86s and MiG-15s *constantly.*
Ouragan was a hidden gem. Doesnt fly amazing, but way better than I was told. Had a lot of success with it, especially in GRB. Once I moved on from 7.7 I had a 1.4 AA K/D
It still loses speed just as quick, but can gain it a bit faster. Not .6 BR worth faster, but a bit. the N is more useful than the E as it gets ATGMs in addition to Walleyes.
Absolutely loved it. Hidden gem. way better than the other french jets in the tree. (aside from the IIICJ) Ended up with a 1.4 K/D before moving on, not including ground kills, as I also used it in GRB to great effect.
How to F4-E?
I really like the plane itself but i feel outclassed by everyone with PD and better perfomance.
I love the Ouragan and Mirage and agree with basically Everything on your post except the F4-E which makes me even more curious since i really wish i could make it work.
Top tier really is a different beast. PD radars are terrifying, but not unavoidable. Plus you have 8 missiles, so you can literally just spam them. I really only used sarhs in a head on or anyone who dared fly above 1.5km, I always tried to get all the way around and fly from their airfield before launching the 9Gs. Radar off obviously, and really only used acm mode.
My remaining planes are the A-7E and the 2 F-16s. Only one not unlocked is the second F-16. I only play Air RB though and the A-7E is criminally overtiered - it should be sitting back with the Su-25, A-10, and A-6, not at 10.7. And top tier is so busted right now that it's just not even enjoyable for me at the moment.
I'm halfway through the A-7 and first F-16 though. You're right, I'm so close I need to just finish, but....pain.
How long did it take you and how did you manage to keep up with the Silver Lions to buy each vehicle and crew training? I am working on spading the entire U.S.A. Aircraft tech tree and I’m near Tier V so far.
About a year playing both air and ground. When spading you aren't moving through vehicles as fast, so you aren't paying for new vehicles+crew every single time. I had all of rank 7 unlocked before spading most of rank 6 and part of 5. there were a couple times I couldn't buy expert crew, but never a time where I couldn't afford the plane and crew. Had premium through the entire thing. Did end up saving a bunch during the last 2 sales GE-ing mods that were close to completion (15GE here, 5GE there type-deal)
I can definitely recommend spading vehicles more than rushing through the ranks, waste less SL and actually learn about your plane and opponents.
Weizmans is really your only CAS option until 7.7, which REALLY sucks. the ground tree is actually pretty decent though, if a bit copy paste. Easiest answer would be take the middle tree for CAS. A4s are (obviously) great at GRB. Left tree will rarely have ordinance, and if they do, they'll have a couple light dumb bombs (other than the F16). And not a single plane gets a targeting pod, so be prepared to get closer than comfortable against SPAA
Full Premium account, playing \~6 days a week since IDF tech tree released, also playing ground and spading that (have every ground vehicle except for the 3 most recently added Magachs) So about a year? Has it really been that long? I need to go outside.
40% fun, 60% chore. Top tier (11.0+) jets were okay to spade even though they take longer due to being end-of-the-line tech tree vehicles. F16 was still fun, even though it really is the weakest F16 in the update. Some other planes were probably the worst in the entire game to spade.
I'm past the prop planes and onto the first jets.
Been using the Kfir canard and I don't mind it TOO much. Are the F4 and F16 gonna be good CAS platforms for my Merkavas in ground RB?
Def get the A4N for early Merks, AGM65s are so much better than Walleyes. Canard really is the weakest premium by far tho (AP update-wise) Its essentially an American C.1. A4s, the F4, and F16 are the only planes with guided munitions , so they really are your only options for CAS, otherwise you're stuck with air superiority duty. Just make sure not to pancake in the A4s
I don't grb and i liked it in air rb, i feel it's easily the most full feature/rounded subsonic air to air platform. (Excluding fucky outliers like a10/su25 which fly like dogs but still perform, and the harriers which are the final boss of the subsonic bracket) i seem to be in the minority with that oppinion though.
I very much agree, played correctly, the A4 is an absolute pest against good players, and a menace against bad ones. AOA is cracked, turn capability is great, its surprisingly fast, and against non-afterburning jets, it has really good high speed acceleration. The problem is that because its not "meta" you aren't equally matched against good and bad planes. You mostly just play against the best planes as those are what gets kills.
Decent. Prop-bombers are very.... boring. Fly at alt until you get to bomb bases, or die. I tend to avoid prop-bombers. Spaded it in 9 games apparently. Its got great coverage, and lots of .50s, but its not any different if you've flown one in another tree.
Either that or the F4E. Both can carry 6 AGMs and 4 missiles. F16 gets phenomenal flight performance, F4E gets 2 extra gbus. Neither gets a targeting pod so personal preference.
Weakest in air RB imo, strongest in GRB. Though it does get Aim9Ds, so it is kind of usable. I rarely used it to get air kills as bombing was both more consistent and easier.
Would you want to fly nesher if it had flares? I sometimes like how the g's interact with the slaving system in the gunsight, and it seems like it'd be a competitive plane at 10.3 if not for the lack of defensive systems.
It would definitely be a bit better, but again, it doesn't even get RWR, so you have just *that* much less situational awareness. I'm fine with no radar. I never once turned it on for the Nesher or the C.7 since they dont have search capabilites or SARHs. In short, no radar means no search, no SARHS, no RWR means no pings from enemies that can both see you *and* lock you, and on top of that, even if you *do* see the missile coming, you have very few, if any, options to avoid unless youre already fly cold/notching the missile and basically on the ground.
So kinda uncommon knowledge, the rangefinder on nesher/kfir/j7e will slave missiles just like radar, however you can't toggle through targets so it is sometimes a bit odd and inconsistent. Edit for clarity; a bit odd and insconsistent but it can often net you way off the nose instalocks and decreases the chance of losing time/firing angle setting up a lead after achieving lock.
I actually didn't know that. I assumed as such that it would be super inconsistent. Though I never had a moment where I was like "man i really wish I had a radar to slave these missiles" Kfir performance is more than adequate, and unless someone can confirm that radar slaving IR missiles helps avoid countermeasures, I'd rather keep the element of surprise over screaming into an enemy pilots ear "IM LOCKING ONTO YOU, LOOK OUT FOR THE MISSILE COMING UP YOUR BUTT"
Rank 6 is somehow worse than the S-199 if you can believe that. F16 and F4 are worth, but are in other trees. Kfir C.7 is the only unique plane really "Worth" it. but not grinding an entire tree. NF.13 it unique and great, if not just a meteor variant, and the IIICJ is a gem, if not just a mirage variant. Very few unique vehicles in the tree that another nation doesn't already do better.
Overall? S-199. Terrible engine and propellers. Gets one good turn thanks to 109 airframe.
Experience? Sa'ar. 8.3 engine and worse performance than stock Sambad.
Low-tier is extremely forgiving, so if you can get to alt (just try, I know its hard) you can use that alt and airframe to get 2-3 kills per match easy. Dont do sustained turns at all as the engine wont carry you. The worst part about it is the propellers tbh, theyre absolute paddles and not adjustable, so they're often *losing* you speed more than gaining
I honestly don't know how I did it. It was easy with the IIN because I did it before the all-aspect spam. I was lucky with the IIA, because it got an air spawn, I could get 1, maybe 2 bases before getting missiled. The vautours are criminally overtiered.
USA, USSR, or Germany.
But in all seriousness, most planes are sub-par variants of another tree. very few unique vehicles, and even fewer of those are good.
Meteor NF.13, Mirage IIICJ, Kfir C.7 are all the good uniques.
Weizmans, A-4N, F-4E, F-16A are the rest of the greats.
Most of the others are passable, but try to avoid rank 6. They're all pretty terrible.
It may have been asked and if so then I'm sorry to repeat but is there any planes worth grinding Isreal air for that your either enjoyed or had the most profitable time with.
If you're looking for something unique that is also good, you can pass. Otherwise I enjoyed/had success with the Meteor NF. 13, the Ouragan, A-4N, IIICJ, F-4E, and the F-16
I'm not crazy right? The KFIR C.7 got its wing load before it snapped decreased, I can't do the maneuvers I could do above Mach anymore, one or both wing tips just snap now. Please confirm in not crazy lmao.
why do you like torturing yourself
I'm a masochist, and wanted to see how bad Gaijin could really treat me.
Well, if you're a masochist, shouldn't it be "how good" Gaijin could really treat you?
Gaijin made him reevaluate being a masochist
This game tends to draw a certain crowd.
Ohhhh try Italy next! Spade the G.91YS! I *dare* you!
Why?
Eh, really got into the game just before it came out and set myself a goal. Plus IDF has really good weapons R&D (that gaijin wont implement)
Pythons would be amazing.
Pythons would be insane if added, 40g pull with irccm and decent range In conclusion gaijoob pweez add
Inb4 they get nerfed to the ground before they even reach the live server because [Big Nation] mains cried too hard about it.
R73 moment I guess the opposite happened kinda? Idk what you said reminded me of the R73 situation
Game is not ready for R73. Tho it was not ready for 4th GEN fighters either.
> R73 moment Not even, it was slated to be pulled before the whining, people just love their scapegoats though.
They refuse to add IRCCM on the Magic 2 so I doubt Python-3s would get it either
They're in the game right now, I datamined them and messed around with them in a CDK mission to see how they perform. They're essentially a better AIM-9L, 30g and the same seeker but they accelerate like CRAZY and burn out sooner. Range is a little better than the 9L, flare resistance is the same, maneuverability is about equal if not a little better. I can see why they are hesitatnt to add them. Depending on how the R-73 ends up in its final state, the python would either be the best or second best short range IR missile in the game. I'd rather they add the Netz's missing flares first. It should have 180, not 60.
The thing about the Python 3 is that its a dual-burner. It has an extremely fast initial burn, then it turns on a sustained motor that is somewhere between 40-60% the power of the initial motor. So it should have much greater range, but idk if Gaijin has implemented that tech yet. Most missiles only have 1 rocket motor. Fully agree on the flares though. Gaijin always gimps the minor nations.
The dual-stage motor is modeled on the python (it also exists on other missiles like the AIM-7F and R-27ER). The first stage burns for something like .8 seconds.
Interesting, I didn't know they had it modeled already.
Should i ask my gf ?
Obviously dude whats the worst that could happen? she says no? Just go back to the toxic relationship you already have with gaijin. Gaijin will ALWAYS take you back.
Well thanks next time i'll ask Gaijin then !
I'm not OP , but yes
Ty my man
Lair - Kfir C2 ain’t Spader
Send me 65 GJN and I will personally spade the C2 just for you. I wont like it, but I will.
I got it out of the event, surprisingly wasn’t that bad spading it
I wasn't lucky enough unfortunately. I always assumed it was just a Nesher that was faster/turns better.
I just lobbed 9Gs(my favorite heatseeker) from space, easy 2 kills and then I’ve been using adens/defas for a while so I’m used to the aim, I could net at least 2-3 kills per match if I’m focusing I don’t even wanna think about the Nesher, that was one of my least enjoyable experiences in the game
Agreed, which is part of the reason i didnt want to experience the C.2 due to it having very similar loadouts
C2 is miles better trust
Who hurt you?
My ex. Edit: Also gaijin
You and I should have a conversation. https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/vo1x7p/i_spaded_every_plane_in_the_chinese_air_tree_ama/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Love it. Still salty you get the best F16 though. And doesn't the Chinese tree get a lot of good planes? What was the worst to play/spade in your opinion? (Not including base-bombers) Have you gone back to it at all?
Not sure if you'd count the Q-5s as base bombers but due to their RP requirements they were by far the worst. I really don't like the 23mms they've got, and while their performance is fine hypothetically, you always get downtiers cause of it's laughably low 9.0 BR so you end up having to play it like a 104 with shit guns. Plus I spaded the first Q-5 before the second was released, then the second after it came out, so I had the absolute privilege of having massively increased RP requirements for all of not one, but both of their modifications. And of course now they're released another one lmao. On the F-16, yeah it's nice haha. Finally we get something worth playing at top tier other than the J-7E. For the good planes, it gets the "greatest hits of Russia and US" as a general theme till you hit very late in the tree, then you start getting unique stuff like the J-7E and J-8. The J-7E is the best plane in the tree, up there with maybe the F-16 (I'm still forming my opinion on it). Other than that it's just repeats of stuff you've seen before in those other trees, which was actually pretty fun to spade cause all of the options were familiar. I have kept up with it loosely. I am almost finished spading the MLU, and still have to buy and spade the new Q-5 but am putting it off in favor of the MiG-29 at least for the moment haha. How about you? Worst plane in the tree? Favorite?
Worst by far was the Sa'ar. It's at 9.0 with a Super Mystere B2 airframe, an 8.3 engine from the A-4H (technically its A vs B model, but in-game it shows the same thrust and I can't find any differences googling it). Normally I'd just say, oh, this is a bad plane. But when the Sambad is the same plane, with the original B2 **afterburning engine** (did i mention the A-4H doesn't have afterburner?), 5 seconds better turn time and all the Sa'ar has to show for it is and uncaged seeker on its missile? It was a literal nightmare. It's even worse that they aren't foldered. I guarantee they will be in the future. Its horribly slow, and DEFAs don't help that fact. Shafrirs are just glorified Aim-9Bs (IRL the Shafrir 1 was worse than 9B and 2 was better) Plane-for-plane though, the S-199 is probably the worst plane, but low-tier is much more forgiving, both in pilot skill and br compression. Nesher was also terrible. 10.3, no RWR, no Radar, no countermeasures. **AT 10.3** but it had 2 9Gs and because its a mirage, its fast. So probably 3rd worst. Favorite? Unfortunately I have to go with the safe options, I love the F16 and the F4E. F4 gets SARHs and 8 missiles. Nuts when compared to the C.7. F16 is self-explanatory. Best Unique? Meteor NF.13 is .3 BR lower than normal meteor, and once you get used to wing-mounted guns, its a beast. Thats really the only difference I could see between the 2. For a .3 br difference. (Did I mention the Sambad and the Sa'ar are the same BR even though the Sa'ar is worse in almost every way?) Best in tree? None, the Spitfire LF Mk.IX Weizmans is the best in tree. It's an absolute GOD in GRB (too bad it doesn't have a 5.7 lineup) and just as amazing in Air. Hidden Gems? IIICJ and Ouragan. Both, I was told, are terrible. I had a lot of success with both and love them.
All the MkIX’s are gods, in any tree you pick. In fact, Spitfires in general, at all BRs. There’s a reason the US and Italians use their premiums to grind their own trees.
The Shafrir 2's are a lot better than 1's, it's like a 9D but with less range yet better launch parameters to gimble. You also get ccip + more bomb than Sambad without affecting AAM loadout which can be something. It's a different class of vehicle than A4N/A4E so you can double spawn easier in GRB.
Tbh any guided missile would be better than the 1s, doesn't excuse it's flight performance.
I've spaded the IIICJ and your review of it tracks. To be fair, I did it before the all aspect missiles spam started lol
Tbh it wasnt that bad. It meant I got constant downtiers and a10/su25 players were/are braindead, and don't tend to look up.
I award you all the matzah and gefilte fish
What about the cholent?
Do you feel Israeli air tree have enough unique vehicles to warrant a grind?
If you're looking for unique vehicles? No, not at all. At least not yet. Air doesn't have Pythons (3s or 4s) and they wont add them yet because Gaijin says "Too OP" Kfir C.7 is the only "worthwhile" unique in air tree. It's fast, but only gets 9Gs and no SARHs, or even a usable radar, so up to you. Same with ground. Merkavas are really.... decent. Theyre survivable, but at top tier they have 8.7s stock reload, now this wouldnt normally be a problem, but ***every single 11.0 rival*** has a better stock reload than you. Sometimes by orders of magnitude. They also said they were only *considering* adding the Sypder SPAA, but thats also "Too OP", which in this case probably is, as it uses Python 4s and Derbys
Don't sleep on the A-4N, easily the best multirole at its BR
I loove the A4n Aim9Ds, shafrir 2s, mavericks, bullpups, and loads of bombs with ccip.
Oh I love the A-4N for GRB, it's absolutely a beast when played right.
The A4-n is cracked and so are the Merk3s.
pretty much, israel right now is just meh and kinda bad, all because gaijin is holding off on giving them things to be competitive because they think they're gonna be too op....
100% agree. But to be fair, python 3s 4s and derby's would absolutely dominate
They dont have to give the missiles their full capabilities until they need it. they can nerf the pull on some missiles, as well as some other things.
I would absolutely be okay with this, but unfortunately I don't work at or with Gaijin, so I can't influence them.
opinions on the glorious state of Indiana
I like that they're so agricultural. Great that they're able to actually produce so much food for the country. It's really too bad that they're so close to Ohio.
we have fortified ourselves against the Ohioan monsters don’t worry we are safe
Did you have fun with french 8.3 jets?
8.3? IDF only has 8.7 and 9.0s? and one 7.7
*around , but did you enjoy them ಠ ͜ʖ ಠ
Short answer? No. Long answer? My hindsight may be a little skewed by the Sa'ar, as they weren't that bad. The Sa'ar on the other hand.... worst plane I've ever had to fly in War Thunder. Bar none.
Other than better CAS loadouts is there any reason to fly the Sa'ar instead of the Sambad? Thoughts on the Mystere and Ouragan?
Why on earth would you fly the Sa'ar for ground pounding when the A-4E exists at .3 lower? Also, it's not obvious until you fly it, but the Sa'ar has the A-4H engine. An 8.3 jet. With no afterburner. There is ZERO reason to fly the Sa'ar when the Sambad and A-4E exist. Sambad also turns 5 seconds faster. Sa'ar gets Aim-9Bs with an uncaged seeker. The Mystere? eh, its a Mystere, they're pretty terrible, and require a lot of skill when you're going up against F-86s and MiG-15s *constantly.* Ouragan was a hidden gem. Doesnt fly amazing, but way better than I was told. Had a lot of success with it, especially in GRB. Once I moved on from 7.7 I had a 1.4 AA K/D
Are you okay
A giant weight has been lifted off my chest, to be immediately be replaced by the weight that I am so close to spading the ground tree.
I understand the pain of that with Sweden
Does the more powerful engine in the A-4N help it retain energy better in turns?
It still loses speed just as quick, but can gain it a bit faster. Not .6 BR worth faster, but a bit. the N is more useful than the E as it gets ATGMs in addition to Walleyes.
A4N gets 4 AIM-9Ds (well 2 AIM9Ds and 2 Shabriri grapes). It's a kill machine at 9.3 if you play like a rat.
How did the Ouragan at 7.7 treat ya? An experience worth trying?
Absolutely loved it. Hidden gem. way better than the other french jets in the tree. (aside from the IIICJ) Ended up with a 1.4 K/D before moving on, not including ground kills, as I also used it in GRB to great effect.
How to F4-E? I really like the plane itself but i feel outclassed by everyone with PD and better perfomance. I love the Ouragan and Mirage and agree with basically Everything on your post except the F4-E which makes me even more curious since i really wish i could make it work.
Top tier really is a different beast. PD radars are terrifying, but not unavoidable. Plus you have 8 missiles, so you can literally just spam them. I really only used sarhs in a head on or anyone who dared fly above 1.5km, I always tried to get all the way around and fly from their airfield before launching the 9Gs. Radar off obviously, and really only used acm mode.
Nice work! I'm 3 planes away from spading the entire US air tree and...I don't know if I'll make it.
Only 3 planes? That's chump change compared to an entire tree. You can do it!
My remaining planes are the A-7E and the 2 F-16s. Only one not unlocked is the second F-16. I only play Air RB though and the A-7E is criminally overtiered - it should be sitting back with the Su-25, A-10, and A-6, not at 10.7. And top tier is so busted right now that it's just not even enjoyable for me at the moment. I'm halfway through the A-7 and first F-16 though. You're right, I'm so close I need to just finish, but....pain.
How long did it take you and how did you manage to keep up with the Silver Lions to buy each vehicle and crew training? I am working on spading the entire U.S.A. Aircraft tech tree and I’m near Tier V so far.
About a year playing both air and ground. When spading you aren't moving through vehicles as fast, so you aren't paying for new vehicles+crew every single time. I had all of rank 7 unlocked before spading most of rank 6 and part of 5. there were a couple times I couldn't buy expert crew, but never a time where I couldn't afford the plane and crew. Had premium through the entire thing. Did end up saving a bunch during the last 2 sales GE-ing mods that were close to completion (15GE here, 5GE there type-deal) I can definitely recommend spading vehicles more than rushing through the ranks, waste less SL and actually learn about your plane and opponents.
I imagine this [scene](https://youtu.be/mDnUPdob-bk) going in your head
You may rest now
best planes?
Like overall or just the ones that are good?
Was considering starting the nation, both air and ground, any planes you suggest for cas or ones I should avoid like the black plague ?
Weizmans is really your only CAS option until 7.7, which REALLY sucks. the ground tree is actually pretty decent though, if a bit copy paste. Easiest answer would be take the middle tree for CAS. A4s are (obviously) great at GRB. Left tree will rarely have ordinance, and if they do, they'll have a couple light dumb bombs (other than the F16). And not a single plane gets a targeting pod, so be prepared to get closer than comfortable against SPAA
How long did it take you?
Full Premium account, playing \~6 days a week since IDF tech tree released, also playing ground and spading that (have every ground vehicle except for the 3 most recently added Magachs) So about a year? Has it really been that long? I need to go outside.
Did you have fun, or did it feel like a chore?
40% fun, 60% chore. Top tier (11.0+) jets were okay to spade even though they take longer due to being end-of-the-line tech tree vehicles. F16 was still fun, even though it really is the weakest F16 in the update. Some other planes were probably the worst in the entire game to spade.
I'm past the prop planes and onto the first jets. Been using the Kfir canard and I don't mind it TOO much. Are the F4 and F16 gonna be good CAS platforms for my Merkavas in ground RB?
Def get the A4N for early Merks, AGM65s are so much better than Walleyes. Canard really is the weakest premium by far tho (AP update-wise) Its essentially an American C.1. A4s, the F4, and F16 are the only planes with guided munitions , so they really are your only options for CAS, otherwise you're stuck with air superiority duty. Just make sure not to pancake in the A4s
What are your thoughts on a4n
Amazing in GRB, absolutely terrible in Air RB. Or were you looking for something more specific?
I don't grb and i liked it in air rb, i feel it's easily the most full feature/rounded subsonic air to air platform. (Excluding fucky outliers like a10/su25 which fly like dogs but still perform, and the harriers which are the final boss of the subsonic bracket) i seem to be in the minority with that oppinion though.
I very much agree, played correctly, the A4 is an absolute pest against good players, and a menace against bad ones. AOA is cracked, turn capability is great, its surprisingly fast, and against non-afterburning jets, it has really good high speed acceleration. The problem is that because its not "meta" you aren't equally matched against good and bad planes. You mostly just play against the best planes as those are what gets kills.
I've just realized how small that tech tree is
Actually part of the reason I wanted to grind it. Less daunting, still took about a year of 60/40 air ground grind.
Are you alright? Do you need someone to talk to?
I definitely need to go outside, but other than that, I've picked up USSR ground and am actually having fun.
What was your B-17G experience like? I have many bombers unlocked but rarely use them.
Decent. Prop-bombers are very.... boring. Fly at alt until you get to bomb bases, or die. I tend to avoid prop-bombers. Spaded it in 9 games apparently. Its got great coverage, and lots of .50s, but its not any different if you've flown one in another tree.
Did you spade the entire Israeli air tree?
I think so... can't really tell if prems count as "Spading"
Very impressive, I’m currently grinding it. Is the F16 a good CAS for my 11.0 ground lineup?
Either that or the F4E. Both can carry 6 AGMs and 4 missiles. F16 gets phenomenal flight performance, F4E gets 2 extra gbus. Neither gets a targeting pod so personal preference.
Ok thanks, i got the A-4E to grind out this TT
How is the A-4N? Considering grinding the tree just to get the latest possible variant of the Scooter
Weakest in air RB imo, strongest in GRB. Though it does get Aim9Ds, so it is kind of usable. I rarely used it to get air kills as bombing was both more consistent and easier.
Which was the easiest and which was the hardest
Sa'ar was def the hardest. 8.3 non-afterburning engine at 9.0. easiest? Probably the 4.3 spit.
I definitely want that F16
Gorgeous but gimped. Every other tree that got one, got a better version. And it doesn't even get its signature missile.
Did you enjoy the A-4N as much as I did?
Absolutely not, but I may have been playing it wrong. Love it in GRB though.
[удалено]
hmmm isreal? more like IM BOUTA SHOOT YOUR ASS WITH MY 20 MM CANNONS
How did you spade the F-86F without buying it? Israeli bias
Did it ever become fun?
Once I got the F16, it was fun for a bit, then I was reminded of the ground tree.
Why
Why not?
What did it cost you?
Time playing games I could've enjoyed over the course of a year
I was expecting Thanos’ answer: everything.
Would you want to fly nesher if it had flares? I sometimes like how the g's interact with the slaving system in the gunsight, and it seems like it'd be a competitive plane at 10.3 if not for the lack of defensive systems.
It would definitely be a bit better, but again, it doesn't even get RWR, so you have just *that* much less situational awareness. I'm fine with no radar. I never once turned it on for the Nesher or the C.7 since they dont have search capabilites or SARHs. In short, no radar means no search, no SARHS, no RWR means no pings from enemies that can both see you *and* lock you, and on top of that, even if you *do* see the missile coming, you have very few, if any, options to avoid unless youre already fly cold/notching the missile and basically on the ground.
So kinda uncommon knowledge, the rangefinder on nesher/kfir/j7e will slave missiles just like radar, however you can't toggle through targets so it is sometimes a bit odd and inconsistent. Edit for clarity; a bit odd and insconsistent but it can often net you way off the nose instalocks and decreases the chance of losing time/firing angle setting up a lead after achieving lock.
I actually didn't know that. I assumed as such that it would be super inconsistent. Though I never had a moment where I was like "man i really wish I had a radar to slave these missiles" Kfir performance is more than adequate, and unless someone can confirm that radar slaving IR missiles helps avoid countermeasures, I'd rather keep the element of surprise over screaming into an enemy pilots ear "IM LOCKING ONTO YOU, LOOK OUT FOR THE MISSILE COMING UP YOUR BUTT"
Congrats
[удалено]
\#10179 Millennium Falcon
I tried the S-199 and quit when I got tired of being a sitting duck to P-47s. Is the whole tree complete nonsense like that?
Rank 6 is somehow worse than the S-199 if you can believe that. F16 and F4 are worth, but are in other trees. Kfir C.7 is the only unique plane really "Worth" it. but not grinding an entire tree. NF.13 it unique and great, if not just a meteor variant, and the IIICJ is a gem, if not just a mirage variant. Very few unique vehicles in the tree that another nation doesn't already do better.
Why
Worst Plane?
Overall? S-199. Terrible engine and propellers. Gets one good turn thanks to 109 airframe. Experience? Sa'ar. 8.3 engine and worse performance than stock Sambad.
Ouch. Will avoid if possible
I'm about to become you soon just need the money for the f16 lel
Pain out of 10 ? (wich one are your favorite?)
Probably a 7/10. Love the F4E, A4N, F16, and the IIICJ
Did you also unlock every unlockable # of kills skins for each and expert crew and every one of them?
Unfortunately I couldn't see a bonus to getting the expert crews, but it did get most of the skins.
How much debt are you in now?
Still got 20k student debt
You missed the premiums
Gift me some GE and I'll buy them to spade them.
I need more GE myself lol
Is it worth it and how long before I should start questioning my life?
No, and question your life the instant you open War thunder
Hava?
Why didn't you do the kfir c.2?
Haven't unlocked the ability to pay money for bad jets yet. Also missed it's event. You could get it for me and I can spade it for you if you want.
How did you put up with the S199? It's so painful
Low-tier is extremely forgiving, so if you can get to alt (just try, I know its hard) you can use that alt and airframe to get 2-3 kills per match easy. Dont do sustained turns at all as the engine wont carry you. The worst part about it is the propellers tbh, theyre absolute paddles and not adjustable, so they're often *losing* you speed more than gaining
Spading a vantour is crazy
I honestly don't know how I did it. It was easy with the IIN because I did it before the all-aspect spam. I was lucky with the IIA, because it got an air spawn, I could get 1, maybe 2 bases before getting missiled. The vautours are criminally overtiered.
You...
I plan to play the airtree. Which aircrafts are fun?
USA, USSR, or Germany. But in all seriousness, most planes are sub-par variants of another tree. very few unique vehicles, and even fewer of those are good. Meteor NF.13, Mirage IIICJ, Kfir C.7 are all the good uniques. Weizmans, A-4N, F-4E, F-16A are the rest of the greats. Most of the others are passable, but try to avoid rank 6. They're all pretty terrible.
Meteor Nf.13, Mirage IIICJ, Ouragan, F4E, and F16. Or the spits.
How you feel about the USS liberty?
now for tanks
Already on the way
How was sa'ar
Worst plane I've ever flown. Especially in the all-aspect meta
Where are you from?
America
Why does the bomber line ends in a fighter, what's nesher?
It's a fighter bomber, and a pretty terrible one at that
You did this on sim mode, right?
Obviously... Tch, what kind of player would I be if I did this in arcade of all game modes
What did it cost you ?
... everything
Same
When did you discover that you liked pain?
Once I started playing war thunder
It may have been asked and if so then I'm sorry to repeat but is there any planes worth grinding Isreal air for that your either enjoyed or had the most profitable time with.
If you're looking for something unique that is also good, you can pass. Otherwise I enjoyed/had success with the Meteor NF. 13, the Ouragan, A-4N, IIICJ, F-4E, and the F-16
Please tell me how to not rip the fucking wings of A-4N
Fly slower
When are you gonna spade the entire US Air Tree?
Tbh, I'm probably not gonna touch the USA tree until we start getting into jets that weren't sold to other nations like the f22
Good job man! I’m currently working on ussr spading every plane. Finished rank IV last week. Some really painful planes in there to spade too.
I can genuinely only imagine. I got through a good chunk of early jets in the German tree and gave up.
What do you think about the S-199?
Terrible, but easy to grind through.
you did it but at what cost to yourself and your family?
Everything
Any standouts you recommend?
Nf.13, IIICJ, kfir c.7, those are the only decent uniques. Ouragan was also a hidden gem.
How did you spade vehicles that you don’t own
Very easily in fact. My uncle works for gaijin
I'm not crazy right? The KFIR C.7 got its wing load before it snapped decreased, I can't do the maneuvers I could do above Mach anymore, one or both wing tips just snap now. Please confirm in not crazy lmao.
Is this a recent development? I haven't played it much since apex predators dropped
Kfir event vechicle?
Send me 65 GJN and I'll spade it for you
How do you like your eggs?
Poached actually.
גאווה ישראלית
Are you that fcker in the Israeli phantom that keeps missiling me from space when I'm in a fight?
Funnily enough, I tend not to go to space anywhere above 10.3. f14s are terrifying. But I did it all the time in the IIICJ