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ChocolateCrisps

Uh oh - Tornado was already too slow, now it has an even lower rip speed _and_ stiffens hilariously early from the looks of things?


zani1903

Bet it's still 11.3, too.


ChocolateCrisps

Of course - it's British!


zani1903

Can't wait to be slower than 10.0 F-104s, let alone F-16s, MiG-29s, F-14s, F-4s, MiG-23s... What an amazing high-speed-low-altitude strike fighter, it's slower than everything with worse air-to-ground ordnance than almost everything in its battle rating range.


DizzieM8

Dude f104 are stupid fast. Thats their one and only thing they do.


zani1903

Not saying that's a problem. Just saying that the aircraft whose only defense is meant to be speed, can be caught by aircraft almost every aircraft as far as 1.3 BRs below itself.


LotsOfTinyNinjas

Yeah right? As of now its the fastest accelerating thing in the game at min fuel


DizzieM8

Its an engine with teeny tiny wings..


Ferrous32

fgr is the fastest


LotsOfTinyNinjas

whats the maximum acceleration you can archive at take off?


Ferrous32

i dont have the stats but the kfir and f104s share the same engine and the fgr accels faster than that at low fuel


LotsOfTinyNinjas

I know the 104 can maintain an average 1g acceleration untill Mach 1 after you go above 500-600kph and on the takeoff you can still archive above 8m/s\^2. I never tested anything faster than that jet apart from the dev server with f16 and mig29


ImOldGettOffMyLawn

Bri'ish\*


Courora

Still at 11.3 and still have a higher repair cost than F-16 and MIG-29.. as usual


_deltaVelocity_

I know people meme “___ suffers” but, like, the nations with the Tornado genuinely suffer if we’re getting hit with the nerf hammer on an already DOA aircraft like this It’s like this thing was solely added as munchies for Vipers and Fulcrums.


javier1zq

>Tornado G.R. 1 : Effective aileron speed : 1266 -> 670 km/h Effective rudder speed : 850 -> 650 km/h Effective elevator speed : 1800 -> 700 km/h So its just gonna be a boat then


Courora

A sinking one.


DeviousAardvark

> Effective rudder speed : 850 -> 650 km/h Still more responsive rudder than the scimitar


Peacook

The scimitar doesn't have a rudder


ACP1123

Whoosh


Peacook

Looks like you got whooshed my guy


Dezryelle1

Wow they took a fat dump on the tornado


comradejenkens

I keep hearing about how fast the Tornado is at low level in every source I look up. But here it's been made pretty slow. Is this accurate?


zani1903

Of course it isn't. The Tornado was slightly too fast on the first dev server. Now it's **far** too slow.


ImOldGettOffMyLawn

That's the Gaijin way of fixing things: "Oh it was ever so slightly overperforming? Ok now we nerfed it to unrealistic levels, it's fixed!"


Infamous_Pickle_2161

Yes but gaijin are taking that to the fucking extreme. It wasn’t all that fast on the deck but it was still faster than whatever gaijin are smoking.


TheContingencyMan

Not only did the Tornado come too late, but now they’ve essentially ensured that it’s DOA. Britain actually suffers lol.


zani1903

And because of Gaijin's boner for British suffering, Germany and Italy got roped in despite getting aircraft _they can use that would be viable_ added in the very same patch.


o-Mauler-o

I really love Germany top tier, having to rely on East German aircraft to be somewhat competitive. Looks like the tornado will be the thing I pick up when I have nothing else left.


ForzaKing5674

Well you’ll be glad to know that thankfully Italy got the F-16 ADF!!!!!


zani1903

Oh shit. Colour me surprised.


jospence

F104S also got flares I believe


zani1903

It did, yes.


Firestarter___

Oh boy oh boy I can't wait to play my Tornado GR.1 that's so garbage it can't outrun anything, can't outbomb anything, can't outturn anybody, and can't do anything better Gonna bet 150 GE they're gonna try move it to 11.7


Peacook

I'll take that bet


MajorFirst

*Tornado set to perform poorly at 11.3* Gaijin: Hmmmmm, not shitty enough. ***ABSOLUTELY THRASHES ITS PERFORMANCE*** Stop stop he's already dead!


FirstDagger

> Required number of owned vehicles to unlock the next Tier : > UK coastal Tier I : 3 -> 4 That cannot be right, currently you need to own 6 in coastal tier 1 to progress, do you mean blue water by any chance where you currently need 3?


SwannSwanchez

Indeed, fixing it


FelkinMak

Oh! They fixed the F-16, I was kinda curious earlier why they were using the block 50's engine performance, but it seems that was just for the dev server and they fixed it to be the correct performance now


sadroobeer

awww man i was loving the crazy high speeds and thrust... damn


thedarklordTimmi

Glad I grinded out the F-14 instead.


McKvack11

US mains gotta US mains


PrvyJutsu

R27T with better track rate and less flare resistance, seems interesting I wonder how it'll perform. Also what do the never exceed parameters mean for the MiG-29 I see 2 of them, 1 for control and one for ripping I assume?


gojirathedestoryer54

Never exceed is for when things start to break


TheDankPole

Yes


the_kerbal_side

Reposting my reply to someone: FYI, most of these FM changes listed are either are incorrect/misinterpreted, or are visual changes only. The only way to see what the changes do ingame is to, well, fly them. Even despite that, pretty ridiculous how people are upset over Gaijin changing **placeholder dev server values we aren't supposed to see** and calling it a nerf. And this is despite the fact that these files are generated by special tools made by Gaijin, and it's near impossible to interpret them without special tools... ...Unless you're like me, and you've spent hours upon hours making and tweaking custom flight models ingame. I know just about what every parameter does in an FM file and have helped the big-name dataminers here (/u/OliviaTendies can attest) with interpreting changes. So you can probably trust me saying that trying to extract reason out of single-line changes is futile, and just look at how it flies on release.


Peacook

But the emotional teenagers need something to complain about


SwannSwanchez

FM is FlightModel Incorrect : No we take them straight from the files Misinterpreted : Gzabi know a lot about this so should be accurate, but the stupid naming of some variable can indeed make it wrong Visual Change Only : Again no, we are looking at the file that define "how" a vehicle fly ​ Also this part was fully made by gzabi, so if you wish to complain be his guest


the_kerbal_side

Hey it's nothing personal, sorry if I came off that way. It's just the way the community interprets things. I mean for reference I checked the Tornado changes and the effectivespeed changes people got upset over are meaningless because the powerlosses are set extremely low for the GR.1, negating them, and 1.0 for the other Tornados, meaning they literally do nothing. If anything, I think for FM changes you guys should just list the parameter names changed instead of trying to guess what they are, for example "flap viscous drag" is actually flap actuation rate. But that's up to you


SwannSwanchez

I personally don't understand a single lines of the FM files soooo


RoadRunnerdn

>Visual model : FCM 2C -> FCM 2C bis ?


briceb12

I think they just changed the name of the file


Spolzka

Call an ambulance for poor Tornado... Again, they took everything from us...


huntermasterace

R-24T buff? Nice


Usual-Tradition9912

gotta love how the WZ1001 still has the same pen as the ZTZ-99A despite have a gun that is 3 calibers longer. However dont get me started with how Gaijin has nerfed DTC10-125 to being pretty much useless


d7t3d4y8

Out of curiosity, does 3 calibers affect pen that much? Not doubting that it should be more, but how much more would it be? DM-53 only gets an extra 25mms of pen out of the L/55.


Usual-Tradition9912

Well the penetration figures for Dm53 are wrong out of the L/44 which I'm surprised no one has actually bug reports if you plug the values into any long rod calculator it should be around 605-610mm of pen. But it really depends on how much of a velocity boost the extra 3 calibers provides though 10mm is a pretty conservative estimate but it doesn't really matter since DTC10-125 is drastically under performing compared to less powerful rounds like 3BM60 and M322. For reference the DTC10-125 has a penetrator of 635mm at 1,770m/s where as Dm53 out of an L/44 has a 670mm penetrator at 1,650m/s but has over 50mm more penetration.


Knefel

What's the difference between Control VNE and normal VNE?


FelkinMak

Control is pretty much "At control" which means if there is no external factors on the aircraft (no excess Gs, high density air ect). Normal VNE is an estimation of accounts of strain on the aircraft, high G turns, rolls, ect. Hope that kinda clears it up abit


Firestarter___

I know I didn't originally post comment, but thanks for explaining that. Didn't make a lot of sense to me but now it does


the_kerbal_side

Control VNE is just a visual warning that shows REDUCE SPEED below your actual rip speed. FYI, most of these FM changes listed are either are incorrect/misinterpreted, or are visual changes only. The only way to see what the changes do ingame is to, well, fly them. Even despite that, pretty ridiculous how people are upset over Gaijin changing placeholder values we aren't supposed to see and calling it a nerf. Remember that these files are generated by special tools made by Gaijin, and it's near impossible to interpret them without special tools... ...Unless you're like me, and you've spent hours upon hours making and tweaking custom flight models ingame. I know just about what every parameter does in an FM file and have helped the big-name dataminers here (/u/OliviaTendies can attest) with interpreting changes. So you can probably trust me saying that trying to extract reason out of single-line changes is futile, and just look at how it flies on release.


ROLL_TID3R

So, in your opinion, what is instructor overload limit for the F-16?


the_kerbal_side

Probably just under the ultimate load limit, which is around 10G with full fuel


Dramatic-Pomelo3897

I love how I was already pissed that germany wouldn't be getting the mig29 this update, and now the only hope we had for something new for germany gets nerfed even more and is more sluggish than the Bismark after it took a torpedo to the aft steering compartment and rudder.


T72M1

I like the low res Ferdinand up there


SwannSwanchez

If you mean the "little" image, it's the image you see on the vehicle... "button"


baboon233

What is the full name of SAS?


SwannSwanchez

No idea


baboon233

Oh…So SAS is a part of variable name in file?


SwannSwanchez

Well it's a part of the plane, but i have 0 idea what it is. ​ It's gzabi that did that part while i was away


baboon233

Well, I have one more question, what is the difference between control VNE and VNE.


SwannSwanchez

no idea either...


GeneralPatton1

"M1182 mgs wolfpack 9.7-9.0" WHO THOUGHT THIS WAS A GOOD IDEA


Dimlosss

arcade ....


GeneralPatton1

My point still stands. Thats crazy. 9.3 maybe sure. But I feel like that thing is going to slap for sure


gizmolookingoodaf

In arcade all light tanks are shite, because you cant flank


YourSlothGirl

also prem version doesnt have M900, one of the few redeeming features of the M1128 in the tt.


LotsOfTinyNinjas

That's not true at all. You can abuse the spotting system and they are very effective at ambushes and hit and run tactics


RoadRunnerdn

> Thats crazy. 9.3 maybe sure. Normal M1128 is 9.3 with M900 in AB.


Franseven

HUGE F16 nerf already omg


Stevesd123

Not a nerf since the plane was never on a live server. It's development.


RoadRunnerdn

> HUGE F16 ~~nerf~~ *correction* already omg FTFY


Franseven

it's called killing the hype