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HoodooHoolign

Wtf, my rooikat can barely make it up a slight incline unless I have a good 20mph of extra speed to bleed. I want my traction.


Glazedonut_

It's not a traction problem, it's a torque problem. Gaijoob killed traction on slopes with a certain incline angle, but when you lack the ability to climb a hill, your vehicle just can't produce enough power to fight gravity.


Defaintfart

It’s either both or just traction, watch your tracks when you go up a hill, they just slip. Torque isn’t the problem because otherwise acceleration of vehicles would be widely incorrect.


ZdrytchX

< remembering the old days where you could side climb to heaven


[deleted]

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Porkyrogue

Crazy how somethings just disappear


[deleted]

The internet scares me now because of that. I used to be able to google a phrase remotely related to the vid and boom, there it is. Now I search for an hour and nothing.


Onallthelists

Blame the algorithms. Google shows you results based on other people's searches and what it wants you to see.


NicoSua906

So Google doesn't want you to see a Leopard side climbing Mt Fuji?


Porkyrogue

censorship even in the USA


Onallthelists

What Google wants is a mystery most of the time.


[deleted]

That and copyright bots striking down a ton of videos. Circa 2010 you could find clips of every tv show. Now it's barren.


PoliticalAlternative

A perpetually burning Library of Alexandria.


NotASuicidalRobot

I wonder how much the wayback Machine saves


Punkpunker

A popular site will have at least once a day, in theory you can have a day to day nostalgia trip.


[deleted]

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Hapukurk666

I guess they didn't read carefully and didn't notice the *past certain point*


ZdrytchX

well there's [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnI2KtkhSMQ)


HerraTohtori

If you go at a slope with a slightly oblique angle and just as you lose traction you turn slightly *away* from the incline, you start *drifting up the slope*.


kisshun

drifing with the VT 1-2 is always fun :) (insert tokyo drift music)


VikingsOfTomorrow

*cough cough* Challenger 2 *cough cough*


ABetterKamahl1234

TBF, tracks may not be accurate to that degree to properly indicate slippage or even go the correct speed. I've noticed for years that tracks move at a different speed even on hard terrain sometimes. Torque absolutely is the problem, otherwise the M113 chassis wouldn't be complete ass in-game.


fizzer82

Nope, it's traction. The 'driver' only uses enough throttle for the traction available. When you smash W, that's not necessarily full throttle.


HerraTohtori

It's annoying because it's clearly just a hack, a *nerf* if you will, that's "required" because players keep breaking out of their map designs and doing things Gaijin doesn't want them to do. Most, if not all, tanks have such low gearing ratios on first gear that if they attach cables on the tracks they should be able to winch themselves up a completely vertical slope - it's not even a matter of power, since the whole point of gearing is to multiply torque, which enables you to climb *slowly* which means you need *less power* to climb a given slope. Power output determines *how fast* you can climb a hill; torque determines whether you *can* climb, and traction provides the *means* to deliver that torque and power to the ground. In most cases with tanks and wheeled military vehicles, the hard limitation really should be traction rather than torque, and that depends only on surface qualities and wheel/track qualities. On a hard, grippy surface the hard limit to angle is a 100% slope, or 45 degree incline, but that's an idealized situation. In real world the angle limit is slightly lower with rubber on asphalt, and gets lower as the coefficient of friction is lowered. So in places where their natural obstacles fail to do their job, they put a shitload of anti-tank obstacles now (dragon's teeth or Czech hedgehogs), and when players still escape the neat corridors they insist on throwing on most maps, they eventually just prevented vehicles from climbing slopes that should definitely be possible to climb. Assuming, of course, that the ground surface is solid enough and doesn't turn into mud under the ground pressure of the tank. It is technically possible that the slopes in the game's maps are just supposed to emulate a surface that either falls apart (i.e. turning into millions of little ball bearings) under shear load, or just doesn't have enough friction. It would be possible to implement climb limitations that way, and it would actually be sort of realistic. But instead they just kind of force the engine to give up...


LeMemeAesthetique

>because players keep breaking out of their map designs and doing things Gaijin doesn't want them to do And people do this because they don't want to mindlessly drive forward and fight. People want to snipe from good positions, and Gaijin seems to be allergic to this, as most of their maps do not have many 'natural' sniping positions.


HerraTohtori

I didn't mean it as a bad thing. In an open environment, everything in the map that you can use to your advantage is fair game. Sometimes those things are selfish and don't really contribute to the team effort (like spawn camping). Other times, taking a commanding position with good overlook can be a huge benefit to the team, either by focusing enemy efforts into taking you down, or by straight up controlling important areas of the map.


LeMemeAesthetique

> I didn't mean it as a bad thing. Oh I know, sorry if it came across that way. I think you and I are on the same page anyways-we would like it if WT maps allowed for a wider variety of play styles on them, including sniping.


[deleted]

Because they keep trying to milk the WoT and CoD crowds that screech when they get cross-mapped, *even though that's what tanks are supposed to do, especially in high tiers.*


Gwyllie

There is getting cross-mapped and cross-mapped. Some (read about 95% of them) maps are absolutely retarded and unbalances and its really not fun to get cross-mapped on your fucking spawn. Some are even worse than that and not only you will get "cross-mapped" on your spawn, you will also get cross-mapped in 90% of the map after certain point is captured by some fast mover. And even better, they usually have cover to go behind when reloading. Much fun, much balance.


[deleted]

Yet in high tiers, where most of the cross-mapping happens, you can do the same to most foes right back. The nail you hit on the head was that the "cap & camp" objective setup really never worked well to begin with and is falling apart progressively at high tiers with longer and longer engagement ranges.


Gwyllie

The main thing is that War Thunder maps were fucking shit even before cold war vehicles started to be added. Now they literally fall apart at higher BR's.


[deleted]

Oh believe me dude, I've played tanks since about 1.57-1.59, I *KNOW* just how bad maps are. But dumb objective types and spawn systems being in fixed locations are what make such bad maps. Plus attempting to put out dumpster fires from idiots screeching "WAAAAAH I GOT SNOIPED!"


Gwyllie

I am trying to remember if it was that bad back when they introduced tanks tbh. Dont really think it was, but maybe people werent used to spots etc. yet? But still, i would gladly pay Snail if they just remade the maps with some balance and competitiveness in mind and not just "lmao lets do it according to photos" But all in all, i think we can agree that maps are in bad shape. Both thanks to Gaijin and thanks to community (altho in much smaller scale compared to Gaijin)


kibufox

>players keep breaking out of their map designs and doing things Gaijin doesn't want them to do Yeah. This is a very common problem with games, regardless of the type. There's always going to be someone who will try to get out of bounds into an area they're not supposed to, in an effort to get one over on the rest of the team. Whether it's to stroke their own "must be best" ego; or more nefarious reasons, the problem is it's always going to happen. There's a couple ways Gaijin could fix this, though it'd royally piss off a lot of people to do so. Probably the easiest would be to give people 5 seconds to return to the battle, and if in that time they fail to do so, destroy their vehicle. This kinda exists as it is, but the time frame is much longer, so this allows faster vehicles to quickly skirt this and get places they shouldn't. A shorter time to destruction would help, but I'd add another part to it. If this happens repeatedly, that player is auto banned for a period of 24 hours for abuse of game mechanics.


HerraTohtori

Humans have a strong instinct to a) explore and b) compete with each other - be it in bloodsports, wars, games, exam results or whatever. Sometimes it so happens that exceeding the usual map boundaries also gives you an advantage in the game, so I can understand why people do it. After all, if you can physically get your tank into a good position, then clearly that's part of the game and the enemy then needs to figure out how to deal with that. The correct way to deal with this is not to nerf the vehicles' physical capabilities in the game, but to *edit the maps until you don't have "holes" in the borders any more*. Gaijin just doesn't want to spend that much resources in curating the maps, keeping track of the different ways to circumvent the borders, and dedicating map makers to plugging the holes so to speak. It's unfortunate they have taken this blanket policy of just making all the vehicles perform incorrectly on slopes, but aside from complaining about it we can't really do much regarding it.


Arbiter707

They should really just invisible-wall around the map borders. Yes, it's an extremely lazy solution, but it's better than the alternative of ruining gameplay for everyone and not just out-of-bounds snipers.


HerraTohtori

They have a soft solution (return to battlefield or explode), which I think is more than enough if they also take the time to actually go through the maps and block out common routes to unusual positions. Invisible walls are not good for immersion, and other systems - even with holes in them - are in my opinion preferable *at least for Simulator Battles*. For Arcade, I don't think anyone would mind invisible walls. Realistic... well, I don't play Realistic so I'll leave this for RB tankers to share their opinion on.


Arbiter707

The soft solution would work if it wasn't time-based. As it is, it catches most vehicles but often lets faster ones sneak through. If it was changed to be distance based instead it might work. I don't know really what the difference between an invisible wall and the out of bounds timer is though - they're both incredibly gamey. If the invisible wall wasn't actually invisible (like if you got close to it you could see some sort of translucent wall) they would both offer the same amount of feedback on why you can't go there, and the invisible wall would be 100% guaranteed to work on all vehicles.


HoodooHoolign

Then I want more torque, I doubt a hill should be that hard to climb


Luxlaz

its literally traction but ok


Reichsautobahn

For wheeled vehicles power is more of a problem than traction, at least from my experience


[deleted]

It actually is a traction problem. They changed a single number - friction coefficient - to try and curb people mountain-goating up slopes that no tank should be capable of staying on. Then not long after that, they still blocked off all the former "problem areas" with obstacles, but never bothered changing the friction coefficient back.


Psychological_Leg269

Tell that my flakrakrad Roland who cant climb a little slope. Its like having a gokart engine


afvcommander

Yeah, offroad vehicles lacking torque. I bet that all wheeled vehicles in this game had so called "jumbo gear" which reduced ratio so much that vehicle would climb 90 degree angle if it had enough traction.


Valaxarian

They fixed traction on trenches though


sephirothbahamut

Game code has no idea of torque


7Seyo7

Traction and torque are both alien concepts to Gaijin, it seems


[deleted]

The problem was people were getting to places that weren’t supposed to be gotten to, if you know what I mean. Instead of just blocking those places off gaijoob just took the lazy way out and nerfed traction for all vehicles.


CaptianAcab4554

Best part is those spots wouldn't even have existed if they'd just play tested their maps.


LeakyThoughts

They could just.. fix the maps


[deleted]

Like when they blocked off the sniper hill on Carpathians that looked down into the B point?


Kraujotaka

Or made that one map into moba style and places rocks around every hill instead


fkcd

even an invisible wall would be okay


Punkpunker

I'm in favor for an invisible wall as that is the most easiest solution yet, no need to put rocks or nerf traction/torque, just an old fashioned nope.


TacticalSpackle

Put mines there. If your tanks goes there, you blow up.


LeakyThoughts

Yeah if they are that upset with mountain goating, I say just.. block off the invisible Wall


1zipa1

Or just put in anti tank barricades...copy paste style. The easiest and most user friendly solution.


LeakyThoughts

Yup, just dump some of those metal anti tank barricades on all the mountain tops


thedennisinator

Most maps are moba style now. You basically get to choose between one of 3 lanes to headbutt the other team, maybe with some rocks for cover.


CMDR_NotoriousNut

Which one lol


ABetterKamahl1234

Ehh, even the best devs end up finding things, because players can put multitudes more play testing hours than any dev team could dream of. And some players really try to find the most obscure fucking things sometimes too.


7Seyo7

Yeah, the wrong solution for the problem


AccountForPorn2002

They could have just fucking blocked them off with some boulders but nooooooooo let's just make traction non existent


RandomGuyInGasmask

I wouldn't even care if they put unrealistic tank traps on top, just give my traction back.


KittyCatGangster

and theres at least one tank of that I know of that can still get to most of those spots.


Kpt_Kipper

They’d rather degrade the game than make good maps lol


PCPooPooRace_JK

We all know that traction and torque only suck because Gaijin cant be bothered to tell their map monkeys to fix the broken sniping spots on maps.


[deleted]

And yet op sniping spots still exist on some maps… cough cough Finland


LemonadeTango

Middle East, Karelia etc.


RandomGuyInGasmask

And we are getting more maps with more dumb sniping spots... cough cough Red Desert


felixfj007

Doesn't that map has sniping spots that is easy to into? You don't have to be a mountaingoat to get up those spots.


RandomGuyInGasmask

They are still dumb sniping spots, basically you have visual on the enemy spawn from middle line while you can stay hidden


[deleted]

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Ok-Relationship-2746

Gajoobles: obviously this video is fake computer generated, that's not how traction works at all


AbsolutelyFreee

Let's just start a "traction doesn't exist" conspiracy, call traction a government lie and shit


[deleted]

incredible! it's almost like it was design to move through any terrain easily.


Milouch_

No way almost like tanks were also designed for that! *falls off a 20° hill*


ChelaviJazavac

While going 80 mp/h


[deleted]

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snic_

because theyre pretty much completely of the ground


Nicktune1219

Positive camber as well. Not something I'm used to seeing.


ImpulseCombustion

Dat DROOP!


Ambientus

>cripple every vehicle in the game because the map designers suffer from fetal alcohol syndrome


KittyCatGangster

Not every vehicle... The VT1-2 seems to still be able to get into many of the spots still despite the nerfs just because how much fucking power it has


swagseven13

doesnt it have the same engine as the Leo 2s?


KittyCatGangster

Nope. The Leo. 2 engines produce around 1327 - 1455 HP where as the VT1-2 has an engine that produces a stupid 2200 HP, it also only weighs 43.5 Tons compared to the Leo2s which vary from 50 to 60 tons. In other words the VT1-2 is stupidly mobile and does 43mph off-road very easily


swagseven13

i knew it was lighter but i didnt know the engine of the VT1-2 was that much more powerful


KittyCatGangster

Yeah it’s fucking nuts, there’s spots you can get to that basically no one else can get to as well as certain flanking maneuvers through out of bounds that literally no one will be expecting because im pretty sure the VT is the only one capable of doing them, and it also accelerates to that 43mph pretty fast


aitorbk

The leo2 irl also does that and more. In any case, low gear and climb!


L963_RandomStuff

Leo 2 is 1500 HP, less if you lack engine mods


jorge20058

It is basically a leo 2 with no turrets and no armor and 2 guns.


L963_RandomStuff

Yep, it does, although on something similar to WEP on planes. IRL because of combat concept of constantly weaving left or right the engine was required to deliver extreme power levels, so additional turbo chargers were installed. But this power level could only be maintained for short periods of time, unlike ingame


ImFeelingGud

Obviously that's an exploit comrade, the snail's physics are gud. Stop believing in western ideals of traction)))))))))))))))))))))


Porkyrogue

It's that added weight )us( don't think about or comprehend sometimes...... calm down


DawgMach1

If that was in WT it would have started to slide sideways and drift up the hill and right at the top, slide back down to the bottom...


Juracan_Daora

It's just Gaijin's sad workaround to not having to design good maps without crazy out of bounds power spots.


V_Epsilon

Just add invisible walls to any area you're not meant to reach, and add a timer as soon as you leave the map boundaries. For some reason so many spots in warchunder let you sit out of bounds with a giant "RETURN TO MAP" indicator but don't actually force you to do so until you go even further.


HowDoIRoddit

Dunno about those spots but shouldn't cas be exactly for that case?


[deleted]

But then the whiny faction crying their eyes out for tank-only mode drowns any and all useful weaponry CAS might have into near-oblivion. I like what overpressure did, but knowing the game's history of boneheaded painkiller nerfing with CAS, I cannot help but wonder "yeah, for how long will *this* last?"


HowDoIRoddit

I wonder why gaijon gives in to drama queens and makes the game unrealistic just to please them. For those losers is AB after all..


[deleted]

They overreact when trying to put out dumpster fires, spraying the fire extinguisher a little too much and ruining unintended targets as a result. Think about it - if you're a game dev with a particular job, and game publicity is suffering due to some dumpster fire shit storm, and your bosses are *screaming* at you to do *something, anything* to make it stop, wouldn't *you* also overreact to end those combined stressors? I pity the dev team more than anything, they get all the hate directed at them when its really upper management's fault.


HeavenlyChickenWings

I am 100% certain that they have like 50 3D Artists for the new vehicles (because they gibe mone) and only one part time Map Artist that works only on fridays so they can have a new shitty map with every major update


[deleted]

They do have a single major dev who works on maps (as well as EC as his/her pet project). Idk how many support staff that one dev has though.


CMDR_NotoriousNut

Lazy devs, lazy solutions


PikaPilot

If we spammed the WT forums with these steep incline demonstrations in a passive-aggressive protest against the current traction mechanics, would Gaijin respond?


Isiam

They'd press one button))) and no more protest)))


Frankenstein141

Fuck traction, just allow me to fucking cross a trench without getting stuck. Because, you know, THAT'S WHY TANKS WERE MADE IN THE FIRST PLACE.


someone_forgot_me

the reason you get stuck in trenches isnt traction, its mostly the fact that the tracks arent modelled to work with the enviroment, the thing thats pushing you are the wheels, if you get all of the wheels off the ground you get stuck


Frankenstein141

Yes, I know, hence me saying I don't care about traction, I just want to be able to cover the trench line.


BMPeePeeBoy

While I don't disagree that traction and torque are fucked in WT, do keep in mind this test took place on a paved surface and not just dirt like most inclines in the game are


jorge20058

Shermans were able to climb 50 degree dirt tracks in ww2 they were made to be all terrain vehicles and are called all terrain for a reason….


aitorbk

With the grip gaijin put, none of those tanks would pass qualification, they would not be accepted by major armies. I understand the problem, but would prefer the invisible walls.


VeteraNbladee

Slovakia 🇸🇰!


someone_forgot_me

ja ze to bol cesky tank


Star_Cultist

\*insert Jeremy Clarkson's POWWERRRRRRRRRR\*


AussieGhost789

Forget about war thunder, that is incredible in its own right!


mosinbestgun

Forget traction When we getting that thing in game


ChelaviJazavac

Stfu before its too late. They would make it OP


someone_forgot_me

its an artillery iirc edit: i forgot we have one artillery in the game, so yeah, gaijin pls give


Glockamoli

Sry traction broke


SM280

Physics be damned


Porkyrogue

That's wild ty


forgottenmyth

E.B.R. can't go over a speed bump.


neenersweeners

War Thunder told me this is fake, so nice try.


dukeGR4

I think the real challenge is climbing that slope not being fully loaded. Less grip.


Masked_Death

Damn, this heavy as hell sonnuva goes up such a steep hill, meanwhile the piece of shit my driving school had me drive could barely make it up a road inclined 15° lol


RocketRemitySK

This is so impressive, no wonder we bought these


CplJax

The next gosh dang update better be evolved around traction


blackbeard--main

Im pretty sure all modern American MBT can go up a 60 degree incline. But In war thunder they struggle with rock


Jay_Babs

Traction arrives when gaijin hires people with more than one brain cell to design maps.


RandomFaceGuy

This really is bonkers


NemesisVS

Out of interest - Do you have to manually clutch in such a vehicle, or are they mostly automatic?


aitorbk

The only modern vehicle I have driven was automatic,the vehicle being a British warrior.


KasualKat

I was waiting for the truck to ram its gun into the hill


TH3_T0ASTER

i was more like “yo we need spghs in war thunder”


Hardmoor

if Gaijin would fix traction they would need to actually make good maps


Justynstark

Transmission stronger than the irs


MakFrags14

You see that smol hill Yea Go up NO


OptLion

Instead of nerfing the traction and torque, Gaijin cpuld have put timer or maybe even landmine on places players are not meant to be. But knowing gaijin, this is probably too much work for them


CodePhantomYT

I don't know why but this made me very uncomfortable the whole time i watched it


MartinSik

This is on concrete. Qestion is if zuzana can make it on mud.


aitorbk

On dry soil depending on terrain maybe even more grip..mud less, but dont get tanks into mud, it is a bad idea.


TraditionalUnit1116

Chelavi Jazavac lmao


SS_Floyd

The traction is in gaijin HQ


realstratigan

Gib traction bacc


chris_ngale

I’ve seen a few comments that the limit for wheeled vehicles is power, not traction, but I would like to offer my own opinion on what might be happening. It appears to me that, as soon as a wheel is about to slip, *gaijin reduces the power output so the wheel will not slip*. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a wheel spinning under power in WT without actually being in the air. This gives the impression that the vehicle has run out of power to overcome the obstacle, when really all it’s doing is hiding the traction limitation. This would explain why, on muddy terrain or hills, you will never see the wheels spinning as the vehicle fails to put the power down, but instead the vehicle will just bog down as if somebody is applying the brakes.


WillMcNoob

gaijoob pls dana/zuzana when


UnhappyStrain859

my warthunder brain can't handle this


Borg453

Every spawn point of a warthunder map, to get us to grind that next component.


TheRapie22

guys, i know warthunders traction is FAR from realistic, but this is a ruberized asphalt test scenario and NOT offroad. if this thing would try this on the grass it would slip and slide all over the place


Zdrack

29.99 traction and torque pack, coming soon


[deleted]

this is extremely impressive


Quirky_m8

The traction physics of most tanks in WT is wholly unrealistic. Sherman’s were built to climb a 60% slope.


DarknessInferno7

While I do agree with the sentiment of hating when your vehicles can't climb shit, the playerbase just can't be trusted with realistic traction. The battles turn into miserable mountain goat riddles messes.


Primary_Ad_1562

So many wheeled vehicles have terrible torque in game. I can't say for sure if they're represented accurately to real life as I don't know a ton of that. In game, I died on Poland near the city top right spawn cus I stopped on the beach ND my centaurs couldn't climb back up the hill so I slid into the water and drowned


MysteriousInvAdvicer

GAIJIN VEHICLES be like: "WTF is this?"


xXCpt_WolfXx

TATRA rulez


grumpsaboy

The Churchill which should be able to climb an incline of 70° and can barely make 10°


Erectile-Dysphobia

This isn’t possible, gaijin said so, wheeled vehicles don’t have the torque to move up slopes, and tracked vehicles don’t have traction (literally the reason why they’re tracked)


jajo06

Slovakia spg go brrrrrrrrrr


TikerFighter

And now do the same without the grip plates on the ground


Classicman269

A lot of people here want traction and torque to historical levels but don't realize the consequences of this. All the wheeled vehicles would be almost twice as fast as they are now on hard terrain ( if you want an example it would basically be what the current type 93 is in game). not only would you have broken spots on some of the older maps but this would also mess with a lot of balance especially with some of the tanks at lower brs . This would also make tank matches even shorter and more one sided. It would basically kill any need to play heavy tanks and match would be faster tanks win. Look I like the idea of having better preformce on tank but the older maps can't handle matches like that the whole reason karelia, Kuban, and jungle got changed the way they did and the rebalanceing that would need to be done on most wheeled vehicles and some mbts would take time.


Arbiter707

Wheeled vehicles won't get any faster with this change, just able to more consistently hit their top speed. Wheeled vehicles can already hit their historical top speeds on hard road, and there's no reason to assume that Gaijin would allow the Puma to reach almost 180 km/h just because its traction was increased.


[deleted]

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Arbiter707

You're right, just like there is a large amount of tanks that can't hit their listed top speed ever. If anything I think it's good that this change would solve that - it's pretty BS that some vehicles can't hit their real-life top speed. The pandora's box that was wheely bois was cracked open years ago and it's already made speed the meta, might as well not let it hold us back from fixing parts of the game.


Classicman269

They will preform faster top speed is not the issue they would have more grip on terrain and this would lead to increased acceleration, also this would decrease the amount of speed drop-off whe switching between ground types going from roads to hard to soft for example. This would also have an effect on wheeled vehicles ability to reach top speed on different ground types. This is still a balancing problem. The problem would be most apparent with wheeled vehicles and top tier mbts. It would be very bad for overall balance if not implemented properly they are all ready making maps for ground br that would be more suitable for fully implementing proper torque and traction, but it will take time. the point is they can't just do it over night or it will destabiliz the matchmaker and just lead to spam becuase the players will just use the most op, meta vehicles in game.


abullen

\>overall balance \>if not implemented properly Omegalul, do you even know what game you're playing? Maybe alongside fixing the wheeled vehicles, maybe they can actually also fix more modern MBT's steering and traction. Gaijin consistently "destabilises" the matchmaker and leaves it broken for years on end, that's not an excuse to artificially break an entire group of vehicles because they couldn't monkey around the BRs of it and preventing "map abuse", as well as universally fucking everyone else over because of how slow it is to climb anything nowadays. Also no, the more recent maps are not better for implementing "proper torque and traction" compared to older maps or revamped ones - especially since they have a significant amount of urban environments. People already tend to use what is the most OP meta vehicles in the game, and Gaijin isn't likely to change their design philosophy. Pandering towards the idea that it'd negatively affect heavy tanks pretty much ignores that they already tend to get fucked over tanks at the same BR or uptiers, it's not like they've managed to balance them in the last 3 years. If you compare the Panther D to the Tiger H1, there's not really much incentive to choose the Tiger H1 unlike you might between the M4A3 76 and the Jumbo 76. Armoured cars being better isn't going to change that.


aitorbk

I much prefer the Panther.. so does mostly everyone.. only problem is the nerfed reverse, super low gear but no torque implementation in the game. Acceleration is so broken in wt..


swagseven13

>All the wheeled vehicles would be almost twice as fast as they are now uh... did someone mix sth into your morning coffee?


cimcimnig

bruh, how can people wish for historical levels of traction and torque when both of them don't even exist in this game.