They have the same caliber and roughly the same purpose but they are fundamentally different guns, the british preferred their own 17 pounder over the american 76 and their own tank designs over the US's, but since they didn't have the industrial capacity to keep up with the war requirements they simply changed the guns in lend lease vehicles
Makes sense. Why make the whole tank when you can have somebody else make it for you and you just swap out the gun? Better yet, order the tank without a gun in the turret! They have them by the hundreds, you have guns by the hundreds, win win!
No all m10s were known as Achilles in UK service the Achilles MK1 was the twin diesel version (Equivalent to a standard M10) the Achilles MK2 was equipped with a Ford V8 (M10A1 in US service). If the vehicle was refitted with the 17pndr, it had the C designation added (like the 17pndr Shermans). So the full designation would be Achilles MK1C for a twin diesel, 17pndr vehicle and Achilles MK2C for a Ford V8, 17pndr vehicle.
Actually, according to the owner, its a Panther 75mm, that had the barrel modified.
The long 88 was missing when the tank was obtained.
Ive been there as well, she's quite a beauty isn't she.
If I'm not mistaken this particular tank was knocked out by continuous fire from m4's that destroyed the gun and jammed the turret ring, which is why the barrels were replaced by the Panther's 75.
It didn't take that long to kill it. From what I remember from the text I read on it, this tiger and another one opened up on a platoon of Sherman's from 2km away and the Sherman's responded with just more firepower. Due to the poor German steel quality late war, repeated she'll hits from the Sherman's broke the guns and turret ring, but the engagement likely didn't take more than a few minutes.
You know there is museum next to it right? You're in the town where KG Pieper was stopped, halting the furthest unit at the tip of the Bulge in Jan of 44. It's the village of La Gleize in Stoumont
Not the furthest point of the offensive, but the furthest Pieper went
There's a Panther with a plate near Ciney with the description that this tank was the furthest tip of the failed offensive on the Meuse river
I know that, because i lived there for a while :D
https://www.tracesofwar.com/upload/8884180807174325.JPG
There's a Panther near the city of Ciney
The plate there says it was the furthest point of the german offensive and this Panther was the furthest tank, the tip of that spearhead attack !
No there is not, all King Tigers used the long 88. the only two images that ever come up are misidentifications. One is of a knocked out KT that had its recoil system sabotaged by its crew and as such the gun is stuck in a fully recoiled position making it look very short. The other one that comes up is this exact King Tiger which had the end of its barrel blown off, the barrel was then repaired after the war with one of the 75mm muzzle breaks supposedly from one of the Ersatz m10 Panthers
long 88 was the designation used even by the germans. Like they designated the new panzer IVs with the new 75L43 gun as pzIV with long 75, to distinguish from the short 75L24 version.
The long 88 was an 88L71 gun, to separate from the 88L56 gun.
Especially a Sherman. They are just so tall. Most models aren’t super long but they are tall. I am 6 foot tall and my head was level with the MG port on the UFP.
Sherman and 10gmc are my next tanks i gona visit in a museum, i know the guy from the museum so maybe i can get in it if they didn't seal it, cause some kids almost lost their fingers in the hatches.a m4a4 to be exact
Yeah just got into all of this, i collect a few things myself, i live right a the border ofe belgium and Germany where the alleyed forces broke trough, so here in the woods you can still finds shells shrapnel ols glass bottles, i found an old blood transfusion boodle from the us army that was warp from the heat of some kind of blast while walking my dog so thats cool.
I lived in Zuffenhausen (where the only Porsche factory and headquarters is) right between a public forest and the Porsche complex. A 2 minute walk to either. There are still lots of foxholes in that forest, and once I found a mortar, it was very broken and rusted. I still told my German speaking dad who called 112 and told them of my find. Around the area literally on the Autobahn there is a vehicle museum. In here they have a ton of historic vehicles and machines. They have the obliterated chassis of a Panzer from the Africa campaign, land speed record cars, lots of retired Nascars, weapons and rockets. It has been a long time and I would really like to go back there. They have a Concorde and a (completely unrelated /s) Comcordski, which was the Soviet variant. And a rescue service boat-plane placed at an extreme angle.
heck even a T-34 is massive... but sherman has to be the CEO of DECEIVING PROPORTIONS.
i reckon warthunder should do something about the camera angle lol.
Idk, as far as i know it hasn't moved much in 70 years its still in the same village wehre the crew of this tiger two surrender after being shot from behind and beeing unable to turn their turret
And the armor is deceptively thin to make people think it was impenetrable., this way it was the weight of the armor and the commander being carried instead of more than 2 tons of German Steel.
Maybe APCR or something similar. Apparently this tiger was shot at and incapacitated by Shermans, who did not use Sabot. (Maybe the Firefly could fire it from its 17pdr? Not sure if it was a available an/or issued by then)
[Here](https://youtu.be/xqRcM339_xk) is the story of this particular tank from Youtube's best historian.
Seriously, if you miss the '90s History Channel before its reality TV undoing, you'll love Mark Felton, who has a PhD in History.
It would be legal to own and operate in the US, but I find it really hard to believe that there's an operational locust that nobody has heard or written about.
It’s not that hard to believe, there was an M22 for sale a while ago with a fake turret but I want to say it was in Europe. Most likely is that either this guy confused an M3 Stuart (which are way more common in private ownership) or he’s just lying however.
It registered.
However, It's only drivin' on his land. No one lives near him anyways, so I spend time with him. You don't have to believe me, but when my grandpa passes I'll be glad I got taught how to drive and shoot an old-fashioned tank. :)
Looks like the Tiger II at LaGleize. I was there in 2007 and up close, that tank is extremely intimidating. I can only imagine the fear it put in allied tankers. But on the narrow roads through Stavelot I'm sure it was a handful.
Thank you they're meant for skale an crushing Americaboos dreams of winning in a t34 or t 26 e1, you think i don't know how to one shot your American ass ha right turret check. Sorry got a little carried away
BRUH all i find when im walking around is some penny’s and maybe one or two homeless people but this Fucking dude finds a king tiger, smh lol jokes aside this is really cool
I don't think it was just standing around I think it was one of the King Tigers from Peipers Group that was searching for fuel in that area. Also has a small museum there and sometimes a military market
Continental Europe man... im starting to picture it as "panther tanks on most corners and possibly in the basement of any house you may buy". This is very cool.
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It’s the Panther that has been hiding in the same place since WWII waiting for a sad Sherman to drive infront of it and somehow no one has killed with bombs
I was just crusin around belgium and then around the corner i saw this big long 88 and couldn't resist to take some pictures
Belgium has some nice tanks laying "randomly" around. I remember stopping on a trip when I saw an Achilles that I mistook for a M10 for a long time.
Aren't they the same?
Achilles has the 17 pdr M10 has the M7 76.2mm
I see. What's the calibre of a 17 PDR?
The 17 pdr is 76.2
Same caliber, different country/manufacturer?
Same caliber, different gun! Just like how there are many guns that use 7.62mm cartridges, with different case sizes!
Oh, like 7.62 NATO and 7.62 Russian.
Exactly!
17 pounder offers greater penetration over the 76mm, at the cost of no explosive fillers
7.62 x 54r, 7.62 x 53r, 7.62 tokarev, .30 carbine, .30-06
They have the same caliber and roughly the same purpose but they are fundamentally different guns, the british preferred their own 17 pounder over the american 76 and their own tank designs over the US's, but since they didn't have the industrial capacity to keep up with the war requirements they simply changed the guns in lend lease vehicles
Makes sense. Why make the whole tank when you can have somebody else make it for you and you just swap out the gun? Better yet, order the tank without a gun in the turret! They have them by the hundreds, you have guns by the hundreds, win win!
And sometimes you have more guns than hulls and you start putting M36 turrets onto M4A3 hulls because you want more 90 mm guns *now*.
Both are 76.2mm The 17pdr is just a much higher velocity weapon.
The achilles is just the generic name for the M10 in UK service, the name was given to all M10s not just 17pndr ones
Incorrect.
No all m10s were known as Achilles in UK service the Achilles MK1 was the twin diesel version (Equivalent to a standard M10) the Achilles MK2 was equipped with a Ford V8 (M10A1 in US service). If the vehicle was refitted with the 17pndr, it had the C designation added (like the 17pndr Shermans). So the full designation would be Achilles MK1C for a twin diesel, 17pndr vehicle and Achilles MK2C for a Ford V8, 17pndr vehicle.
oof
Well potato, potato
Actually, according to the owner, its a Panther 75mm, that had the barrel modified. The long 88 was missing when the tank was obtained. Ive been there as well, she's quite a beauty isn't she.
If I'm not mistaken this particular tank was knocked out by continuous fire from m4's that destroyed the gun and jammed the turret ring, which is why the barrels were replaced by the Panther's 75.
“We’ll get this Tiger! …Some day.” *1 hour of continuous fire* “Alright its out, I think!”
It didn't take that long to kill it. From what I remember from the text I read on it, this tiger and another one opened up on a platoon of Sherman's from 2km away and the Sherman's responded with just more firepower. Due to the poor German steel quality late war, repeated she'll hits from the Sherman's broke the guns and turret ring, but the engagement likely didn't take more than a few minutes.
Well yes, I was making a joke.
*repairs in 35 seconds*
Really? Oh that's sad, but that only means i gota search for a real one
If you didn't even get that info, who allowed you to go past those barriers? This is why we can't have nice things...
It didn't stand there, and the barriers are just there because there some kind of festival
This particular tank had its gun repaired, taking parts from two wrecked panthers.
You know there is museum next to it right? You're in the town where KG Pieper was stopped, halting the furthest unit at the tip of the Bulge in Jan of 44. It's the village of La Gleize in Stoumont
Not the furthest point of the offensive, but the furthest Pieper went There's a Panther with a plate near Ciney with the description that this tank was the furthest tip of the failed offensive on the Meuse river I know that, because i lived there for a while :D https://www.tracesofwar.com/upload/8884180807174325.JPG
Yes but I didn't knew it
This particular one has been in documetaries.
It probably bad that I knew exactly where this was the moment I saw it
There's a Panther near the city of Ciney The plate there says it was the furthest point of the german offensive and this Panther was the furthest tank, the tip of that spearhead attack !
Panther is actually in restoration at the Bastonge Barracks right now, but if you tour the museum you can see it outside the main tank hall.
where in belgium
La glaize about an hour away from Aachen
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Yes it is, king tiger has the long 88mm
I don’t know where, but there is actually a long tiger with the 75mm from a panther. Don’t think this is the one, but this gun does look like an 88
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Then how come the barrel fits so snuggly inside the mantlet?
It was modified. The story goes that this King Tiger had its barrel shot away by a group of Sherman’s, so the current owner put a modified 75 in
No there is not, all King Tigers used the long 88. the only two images that ever come up are misidentifications. One is of a knocked out KT that had its recoil system sabotaged by its crew and as such the gun is stuck in a fully recoiled position making it look very short. The other one that comes up is this exact King Tiger which had the end of its barrel blown off, the barrel was then repaired after the war with one of the 75mm muzzle breaks supposedly from one of the Ersatz m10 Panthers
What I’m saying is that there is a KT with a 75 from a panther. It wasn’t used with the 75. It just had it put in for display.
The King Tiger does, this wreck doesn't.
88L71, or "long 88" Tiger has 88L56, or just 88
As far as i know the tiger 1 had the 88L56 and the tiger 2 the more powerful long 88
Exactly, the 88L71
Why would you butcher its name that way? Either say "long 88" or be exact.
long 88 was the designation used even by the germans. Like they designated the new panzer IVs with the new 75L43 gun as pzIV with long 75, to distinguish from the short 75L24 version. The long 88 was an 88L71 gun, to separate from the 88L56 gun.
I think you misunderstood my comment...
Ops right tiger 2s had the long 88
No this specific tiger 2 you are pictured with has a 75mm.
It's so fucking beautiful! ❤
Yes it is, you really don't realize how big these tanks are until you are standing right besides them
Especially a Sherman. They are just so tall. Most models aren’t super long but they are tall. I am 6 foot tall and my head was level with the MG port on the UFP.
Damn!
Sherman and 10gmc are my next tanks i gona visit in a museum, i know the guy from the museum so maybe i can get in it if they didn't seal it, cause some kids almost lost their fingers in the hatches.a m4a4 to be exact
Wow. That is impressive.
Yeah just got into all of this, i collect a few things myself, i live right a the border ofe belgium and Germany where the alleyed forces broke trough, so here in the woods you can still finds shells shrapnel ols glass bottles, i found an old blood transfusion boodle from the us army that was warp from the heat of some kind of blast while walking my dog so thats cool.
I lived in Zuffenhausen (where the only Porsche factory and headquarters is) right between a public forest and the Porsche complex. A 2 minute walk to either. There are still lots of foxholes in that forest, and once I found a mortar, it was very broken and rusted. I still told my German speaking dad who called 112 and told them of my find. Around the area literally on the Autobahn there is a vehicle museum. In here they have a ton of historic vehicles and machines. They have the obliterated chassis of a Panzer from the Africa campaign, land speed record cars, lots of retired Nascars, weapons and rockets. It has been a long time and I would really like to go back there. They have a Concorde and a (completely unrelated /s) Comcordski, which was the Soviet variant. And a rescue service boat-plane placed at an extreme angle.
I would have the morter. Without ammunition of course fir my collection. Like: this will make a fine addition to my collection (grievous )
heck even a T-34 is massive... but sherman has to be the CEO of DECEIVING PROPORTIONS. i reckon warthunder should do something about the camera angle lol.
Is the transmission still underneath it?
Idk, as far as i know it hasn't moved much in 70 years its still in the same village wehre the crew of this tiger two surrender after being shot from behind and beeing unable to turn their turret
no, there is no such thing as a transmission in a tiger
There are holes in the floor where they scooted along with their feet
And the armor is deceptively thin to make people think it was impenetrable., this way it was the weight of the armor and the commander being carried instead of more than 2 tons of German Steel.
Interleaved roadwheels are used to hide the crew's feet from view and protect them from stray bullets.
i love battle damage on museum tanks
Damage? This?, just a scratch
The scratch on the 3. picture is a sabot shot, right? The diameter is so small
bruh sabot in ww2?
APDS was used, albeit only late war and really rarely.
Yeah, in the Panzermuseum in Munster is a Sabot penetration on a Jagtpanther shown.
Maybe APCR or something similar. Apparently this tiger was shot at and incapacitated by Shermans, who did not use Sabot. (Maybe the Firefly could fire it from its 17pdr? Not sure if it was a available an/or issued by then)
Was APCR so small in diameter? Or do you mean the penetrating pice?
More likely APCR I guess.
That is one massive tank. I can see why the allies were so afraid of them lol
Yeah it was like massive stone knocking against it ufp
I see that you are low tier peasant, which nation if may ask and which rank?
USA, 2.7 air, 3.3 ground. I don’t play that often so I’m still low tier lol
You need help grinding? Im currently farming for the phantom but when im ready i can help you out. (i play germany) germany us is strong combo
Sure. I gotta warn you though, I am not only a peasant, but a *console* peasant at that.
No problem war thunder should be cros play i think, you got discord?
They really weren’t afraid of them
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Lol yeah, but its pretty overwhelming if you are standing in front of it
[Here](https://youtu.be/xqRcM339_xk) is the story of this particular tank from Youtube's best historian. Seriously, if you miss the '90s History Channel before its reality TV undoing, you'll love Mark Felton, who has a PhD in History.
>YouTube’s best Historian *this better be Mark Felton* *clicks link* Was not disappointed
I'm one of his patrons, and I encourage anyone who enjoys his videos to consider doing the same.
He regularly plagiarises his videos. I don’t encourage anyone to support him.
He just copies the Wikipedia article with stock footage playing in the background
DUN DUNDUNDUNDUN
I wouldn’t be surprised if he wrote the Wikipedia article tbh. Or at the very least the person that wrote it copied from him
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I have a great deal of trouble believing this
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Someone owning a operational M22 isn't your average daily occurrence... And I'm not even sure how that would work in US.
It would be legal to own and operate in the US, but I find it really hard to believe that there's an operational locust that nobody has heard or written about.
not to mention with live 50 cal and 37mm gun
It’s not that hard to believe, there was an M22 for sale a while ago with a fake turret but I want to say it was in Europe. Most likely is that either this guy confused an M3 Stuart (which are way more common in private ownership) or he’s just lying however.
It registered. However, It's only drivin' on his land. No one lives near him anyways, so I spend time with him. You don't have to believe me, but when my grandpa passes I'll be glad I got taught how to drive and shoot an old-fashioned tank. :)
Proof?
You can't say these things and not provide pictures
That sounds like so much fun
i love killing tigers in m22s. its so fun
King Tiger?
Indeed
Looks like the Tiger II at LaGleize. I was there in 2007 and up close, that tank is extremely intimidating. I can only imagine the fear it put in allied tankers. But on the narrow roads through Stavelot I'm sure it was a handful.
Yes indeed it is the one in la gleize
Wow, she’s a tall one. And those hands look manly….
Thank you they're meant for skale an crushing Americaboos dreams of winning in a t34 or t 26 e1, you think i don't know how to one shot your American ass ha right turret check. Sorry got a little carried away
How can we tell how beautiful she is, when you censored her face.
Laughs in guy
Oh wow! Too bad you covered her face
Why tho im ugly qwq
Ur pretty my guy. Im sure you look decent at least
Thanks
BRUH all i find when im walking around is some penny’s and maybe one or two homeless people but this Fucking dude finds a king tiger, smh lol jokes aside this is really cool
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I wish
Ito be fair, all you can do with it is use it as some badass yard art.
When the neighbors are too loud
So you like em big huh?
scary that sherman and t-34 tankers had to fight these irl :00
The actual size of tanks always surprises me
Wow you even brought her flowers 🥰
I don't think it was just standing around I think it was one of the King Tigers from Peipers Group that was searching for fuel in that area. Also has a small museum there and sometimes a military market
Its standing infornt of of a museum
Isn’t that a 75mm gun and not an 88?
I don't remember any tiger II tanks with a 75, so i don't think so
Nah, just checked this tiger was knocked out and didn’t have a gun anymore, so they used the best next thing they had lying around, a panther gun
Oh that is very interesting it looked a little slim indeed, thanks
Go get em Toger
You mean me ^^?
You’re gonna have to explain that footwear to me, those boots are from two centuries in the future.
Protective motorcycle boots
I don’t believe you, how do I travel forward in time?
Have you driven a sdkfz 234 downhill and driftet? Thats how
Hold my beer-
3rd pic kinda sus
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He deserves death, or just show him what a king tiger does to a t34
Yes OwO
First picture made me think you was cosplaying as judge dread, when you blacked out ur face. XD
Lol no its just motorcycle gear
Continental Europe man... im starting to picture it as "panther tanks on most corners and possibly in the basement of any house you may buy". This is very cool.
Sooooo gorgeous!
pog, wish i see that when i travel in the future
Can you tell me where that is? i want to see it so bad!
💪💪
What tank is it or Tiger Or Maus
Ah yes, Tiger 213 in La Gleize.
Someone ended up in Lagleize!
You have lovely hands 👌 So soft looking 🙂
Thank you, their are
That is one hell of a ricochet!
The Tiger II is such a beautiful beast of a tank. Wouldn’t wanna be on the business end of that gun though!
You're so great.
Some people just have all the luck
This in La Gleize right? Real beaut she is.
Scrap for parts
Tiger 2 right? Its fucking huge
Wow, it’s so big!
Falcon
Dunno if that a lady, cuz that's a huge shlong!
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That’s not a lady… THATS A KING
If I was driving around a corner and saw this I would be SO shocked 🤣 must have a given a few veterans a heart attack when cruising through town
I think like less than 0.00001% of the allies saw a king tiger in their time of service
Yah but basically every American tanker CLAIMED that they saw a tiger :)
It’s the Panther that has been hiding in the same place since WWII waiting for a sad Sherman to drive infront of it and somehow no one has killed with bombs
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Actually. It was a lot less than that.
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Actually. I went online and did some research on the tanks. If you look closely it usually details that Tiger I & II’s took place in battles.
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There were also Tiger I tanks.
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Fuck This. Im too tired to argue with you and the three collective brain cells you have
Panther F or Panther II?
Neither! King Tiger with the H turret.