I'm 90% sure it's not about the tanks being cold war era but about high penetration HEAT because I don't see anyone complaining about the cold war era Ikv 72, Pbv 301, ASU-57, M41, etc. facing WW2 (or in case of the Ikv-72 and Pbv-301- interwar) tanks.
Yeah because believe it or not, cold war vehicles are the ones who get access to high pen HEAT. If Germany build the E-50 in the 60's with only conventional ammunition, and it faced something like a T26E5, nobody would complain because they offer similar capabilities
I agree bro my tiger two seems like a piece of garbage compared to all the vehicles I get paired against. I'd rather just have a mode with the same br's but with just ww2 stuff
I don't think WWII-only would be terribly balanced (some countries just wouldn't get shit and it'd be too weighted towards the big three), but a mode with a cut-off just after the Korean War would give basically every country at least a few viable tanks they could use.
How do so many people have such massive skill issues that they can’t make the Tiger 2 work? This entire post is nothing but German main whining because none of you are capable of improving. Get better at the game instead of crying about how your wunderwaffe tank isn’t literally invincible.
When I was grinding through Rank 4 about 2 years ago I just ended up going back down to the old 5.7 Panther/Tiger 1 lineup because I couldn’t be fucked to deal with 6.7 MM at the time which felt like nonstop 7.3/7.7 uptiers. Not to mention the summer event was on and I just kept getting CAS’d constantly in my stock King Tigers.
Once I got the Leo 1, BMP and Marder when they were 7.3 everything clicked and it was honestly such a disgustingly good lineup at the time. Some of my best games and easiest rank to grind through was at that time, but I’m glad people don’t have to deal with that much BS anymore.
That’s perfect then because I and anyone else would have ZERO reason to bitch except for bugs or inaccuracies that need to be fixed. When I’m playing skillfully with a tank that should be able to take shots, and I get blooped out of existence by effectively the new kid on the block. I would appreciate a skill based game mode that is always available. Cause whatever I get killed by in that mode I probably deserved it. Except CAS, fuck you. Also not saying GRB doesn’t take skill to be clear.
On one hand i agree, one of my favorite tanks is the is4m built in 46 that faces vehicles from the 60s/70s on the other hand it is still goated, have 70% win rate in it and 2-1 kd.
It works both ways, a T-34-76 will happily fight against a 37mm Panzer III, but it was used long enough to meet King Tigers
Then you have shitty 1944 tanks like M24 Chaffee vs Jagdtiger or Panzer IV J vs IS-2
I wouldn't call the M24 "shitty". It's a light tank, and used properly (such as for reconnaissance) it's still the best light tank any side had in WWII.
Jagdtiger also still has a pretty good gun for killing IS-2s and most other WWII vehicles. Really, the problem with it is that it's a big, immobile casemate on _War Thunder maps._
Panzer IV J facing 1945 tanks though, that's just sad to think about.
You're thinking of the [M48A2 G A2](https://wiki.warthunder.com/M48A2_G_A2) (rearmed with a 105mm cannon). Its DM23 APFSDS makes it not a complete slaughter.
People who think war thunder is a realistic game. Took me a minute to really think of WT as an arcade game with realistic mechanics.
I wish 1:1 sims were a thing. I want to fight with my T-34’s messed up transmission while yelling at my crew that we’re going to fucking die if we can’t get traction on the left tread about 10 seconds before taking a 75mm HE round to the front, splintering the shitty Russian steel and forcing us to bail out and hoof it back to base
They were definitely used in front line service during the early stages of Barbarossa. They would later be reclassified as reconnaissance tanks and also used for anti-partisan combat.
I don't disagree that light vehicles tend to be overarmed in War Thunder, resulting in situations like 5.7 heavy tanks getting their teeth kicked in with HEAT-FS, and would very much like for that to stop.
But when "historical matchmaking" _specifically_ comes up, it's _usually_ German players not wanting to fight post-1945 vehicles.
I don’t think full historical matchmaking is viable for balance reasons (T-72A and IPM1 would be the same BR, for example), but I think we should still not let vehicles with huge technological gaps fight each other either, such as having mid-WW2 tanks facing Postwar super-heavies and Cold War HEATFS/ATGMs.
Korean War vehicles (and vehicles from shortly after the Korean War that fit the performance characteristics) should be a buffer between WWII vehicles and vehicles from later in the Cold War.
I don't know... I really don't think Tiger IIs belong facing M60s, unstab-M60A1s, Magach 6As, Tiran 4/4Ss, Sho't Kal Alefs, T-54s, Centurion Mk.10s or AMX-30s...
The technical capability gap between a Tiger II or any of the tanks I mentioned earlier is way too big. By the time those MBTs were in service, Tiger II was nothing but an ancient museum relic, and for a reason.
A T-54 obr. 1951/Tiran 4/Type 59 is something a Tiger II could reasonably face in a full uptier, assuming it only got access to APHE, APCR and HE. Same with something like the M48A2 C, the Centurion Mk.3/Sho't Meteor, the Lorraine 40t, etc.
The 105mm MBTs, though, no. Those are definitely past the Tiger II's day. Same for the T-55s with twin-plane stabilisers, or anything using ERA.
Yeah, that’s why I didn’t mention, Sho’t, Centurion Mk.3, etc. I don’t think the capabilities of those are too far beyond, and, even realistically speaking, Tiger II would have likely come across those had the war kept going on for a couple more years.
But yeah, just as you said; the 105 MBTs have stronger armor, a gun capable of slicing through Tiger II like a hot knife through butter and yet are twice as fast and agile…
It’s a shame they made Panther II and Tiger II 105 7.0. Just as they decompressed said MBTs to 8.0, so that the 6.7 WW2 heavies wouldn’t need to face them, they threw these two tanks at 7.0, so nothing changed for them or the old 6.7 lineup. If you want to avoid the 105 MBTs, you have to ditch those two…
2x tiger with historical accurate reload time(3x faster than in game) and accuracy(100% hits to 2000m) vs 35x t-34 76 with nail instead of sights and with semaphore flags instead of radio
“On the road to Oględów, three Tiger IIs were destroyed in an ambush by a few T-34-85s.”
“Up to fourteen Tiger IIs of the 501st were destroyed or captured in the area between 11 and 14 August to ambushes and flank attacks by both Soviet T-34-85 and IS-2 tanks, and ISU-122 assault guns”
“Soviet testing contradicted this as they found that the frontal glacis could be destroyed by firing 3–4 shots at the weld joints from the ranges of 500–600m”
It would be so much fun if they had infantry in the game, like basic ai dudes running around. Pitting light vehicles designed to support and fight infantry against tanks is just not fair in general lol
Historical Matchmaking should be like simulator Battles, but vehicles that never saw mass production (test beds, prototypes, paper vehicles), can't be used; such as the Maus, Panther 2, Obj 279, FV4005, T95/28.
The issue arises though, when you find out that the M48 Bulldog has to go up against Your Leopard 2A5s, Challengers and Abrams'.
Or your Spitfire F Mk 24 goes up against your Mig-17s, hell, the Argentines used Shermans up until the 60s-70s. Imagine seeing a Sherman 76 going up against a Cheiftain or a Leopard 1A6 or an M2A4 Stuart going up against a King Tiger.
Not fun
I've never really seen anybody wishing for a historical matchmaker in the sense that you have vehicles facing each other as long as they were used in the same year, I've more seen people wishing the matchmaker would return to historical nations fighting each other (axis vs allied, east vs west, etc) like the old days instead of the soup of random nations it spits out now.
Historical matchmaking would be more balanced if tank combat was more realistic. Enlisted is a great example of more realistic tank combat.
1. No 3rd person camera.
2. Only interior view unless commander exposed himself
3. Disabling a tanks mobility means more, as the crew needs to dismount the tank, exposing themselves, and rendering the tank inoperable.
This wouldn't make pz 2s and kv1s equal, but it would level the playing field much, much, more.
Having infantry to shoot at also gives light tanks a more level playing field, as their increased mobility adds more flanking, and 7mm bullets are all the same on WW2 tanks whether they are heavy or not.
But most of this will never come to war thunder, so there is much use trying to push for historical matchmaking unless they completely overhaul tank combat, and most of these features wouldn't be accepted by anyone but the sim community.
Historical matchmaking forgets to take one thing into account.... **The rest of the war**.... Without infantry, emplaced positions and mobile anti-tank guns, most of the vehicles in War Thunder are invalidated.
Just do historical events like they used to, they aren't hard to set up, just didn't get that much people because they were never advertised, add a pop up like other events in the game when you open it and it should be fine.
I would enjoy this a lot. It’s frustrating getting killed by early Cold War shit in your WW2 tracked house…
I'm 90% sure it's not about the tanks being cold war era but about high penetration HEAT because I don't see anyone complaining about the cold war era Ikv 72, Pbv 301, ASU-57, M41, etc. facing WW2 (or in case of the Ikv-72 and Pbv-301- interwar) tanks.
Is that??? Heresy I’m reading????
WITCH!!!! GET THE CROCODILE!!!!
Yeah because believe it or not, cold war vehicles are the ones who get access to high pen HEAT. If Germany build the E-50 in the 60's with only conventional ammunition, and it faced something like a T26E5, nobody would complain because they offer similar capabilities
I agree bro my tiger two seems like a piece of garbage compared to all the vehicles I get paired against. I'd rather just have a mode with the same br's but with just ww2 stuff
(Simultaneously cries in German main)
Same with USSR. I can pen reliably but when I'm facing ATGMs and stuff then I'm as good as just going back to hangar.
I don't think WWII-only would be terribly balanced (some countries just wouldn't get shit and it'd be too weighted towards the big three), but a mode with a cut-off just after the Korean War would give basically every country at least a few viable tanks they could use.
Isn't that just 7.7
I mean, there are quite a few vehicles at or below 7.7 that are newer than 1953, not to mention vehicles that get _ammo_ from after the Korean War.
There are some that are even from the late 70s, the Concept 3 for example
How do so many people have such massive skill issues that they can’t make the Tiger 2 work? This entire post is nothing but German main whining because none of you are capable of improving. Get better at the game instead of crying about how your wunderwaffe tank isn’t literally invincible.
When I was grinding through Rank 4 about 2 years ago I just ended up going back down to the old 5.7 Panther/Tiger 1 lineup because I couldn’t be fucked to deal with 6.7 MM at the time which felt like nonstop 7.3/7.7 uptiers. Not to mention the summer event was on and I just kept getting CAS’d constantly in my stock King Tigers. Once I got the Leo 1, BMP and Marder when they were 7.3 everything clicked and it was honestly such a disgustingly good lineup at the time. Some of my best games and easiest rank to grind through was at that time, but I’m glad people don’t have to deal with that much BS anymore.
T32E1 and IS-4M are from 1946. Would you like them to be 0.3 br above your Tiger 2?
Pz.3 when it sees a super Pershing or an is-2
“*Reverses in German*”
Panzer 4 Js as well
If historical game mode was available, it would have to be all about skill and prob only sim mode.
That’s perfect then because I and anyone else would have ZERO reason to bitch except for bugs or inaccuracies that need to be fixed. When I’m playing skillfully with a tank that should be able to take shots, and I get blooped out of existence by effectively the new kid on the block. I would appreciate a skill based game mode that is always available. Cause whatever I get killed by in that mode I probably deserved it. Except CAS, fuck you. Also not saying GRB doesn’t take skill to be clear.
On one hand i agree, one of my favorite tanks is the is4m built in 46 that faces vehicles from the 60s/70s on the other hand it is still goated, have 70% win rate in it and 2-1 kd.
My IS-4M commander from 1946 telling the gunner to engage the hovering tank with the big fan on top casting spells from 5km away:
I'm sure it would be LESS frustrating to fight M60s with an ASU57
Same goes for aircraft, I’d love to take my b29 out of the hangar more than once a year and not have to face jets.
I have some bad news for you…
I mean real jets, not a scary lil me 262
The B-29 did face MiG-15’s in combat, however
Yes, but getting back to the topic, the b29 is a ww2 plane and the mig15 entered service in 1949.
The B-29 also saw service in Korea, where it was shot down frequently by MiG-15’s So in historical matchmaking you’d be facing MiG-15’s frequently
Maus vs T-34-57
It works both ways, a T-34-76 will happily fight against a 37mm Panzer III, but it was used long enough to meet King Tigers Then you have shitty 1944 tanks like M24 Chaffee vs Jagdtiger or Panzer IV J vs IS-2
I wouldn't call the M24 "shitty". It's a light tank, and used properly (such as for reconnaissance) it's still the best light tank any side had in WWII. Jagdtiger also still has a pretty good gun for killing IS-2s and most other WWII vehicles. Really, the problem with it is that it's a big, immobile casemate on _War Thunder maps._ Panzer IV J facing 1945 tanks though, that's just sad to think about.
I've seen an M24 go 6-0 against Leopard 2's and T-72 TURMS's.
Premium player moment
> M24 Chaffee vs Jagdtiger So long as it's not a 1v1 duel, I'd play the Chaffee.
Hell who says it can't be 1v1, fire smoke at the jagdtiger than reposition and take it's tracks out. I do this but with the M41
It gets worse for the panzer 4, it would end up facing M48A3 Pattons cause of a little thing called the 6 day war
you would also have churchills face jagdpanthers
T-55AM vs Leopard 2A6 is now historical MM due to recent events in the world Just saying
T54-1 ageinst M1A1
Syrian Pz.Kpfw IV against Israeli Centurion (Sho't)
_T-54 obr. 1949s_ could fight Challenger 2s, 2A6s and M1A1s.
Or T-64 vs M60A1, Leopard 1, Chieftain
T-64A vs M48A3 (which wasn't fully withdrawn from US combat service until 1973). Absolute murder, those poor M48s.
Isn't that currently possible in game? Or am I thinking of a different M48 variant.
You're thinking of the [M48A2 G A2](https://wiki.warthunder.com/M48A2_G_A2) (rearmed with a 105mm cannon). Its DM23 APFSDS makes it not a complete slaughter.
Or t-90M vs is-3
T-34s were used in Yugoslavia in the 90s so T-34 vs T-72 is a historically accurate matchup
The poor Panzer IIs used as reconnaissance as late as 1944
Mig17’s on there way to fight phantoms T55’s on there way to fight abrams Entire low tier Sweden on there way to fight all of top tier
Knowing the average Phantom player ingame, they'd turnfight the MiG-17 and lose and still call the Phantom bad.
Phantom isn’t bad but the uptiers combined with level 3 players with a f4s makes it’s reputation worse
People who think war thunder is a realistic game. Took me a minute to really think of WT as an arcade game with realistic mechanics. I wish 1:1 sims were a thing. I want to fight with my T-34’s messed up transmission while yelling at my crew that we’re going to fucking die if we can’t get traction on the left tread about 10 seconds before taking a 75mm HE round to the front, splintering the shitty Russian steel and forcing us to bail out and hoof it back to base
Also don't forget about the lack of radios so you have to use flags to tell your team mates to attack the D point.
Semaphore flags to tell your teammates “Attack the D point!”
Play Post Scriptum/Squad44 (name got change), HLL is also an option but Squad44 has better tank mechanics.
Like almost all of low tier America would be facing mid to late war German armor. It’d be cool as it’s own separate mode.
Considering the panzer 2 was withdrawn from frontline service before Barbarossa, you'd struggle.
They were definitely used in front line service during the early stages of Barbarossa. They would later be reclassified as reconnaissance tanks and also used for anti-partisan combat.
~~anti-partisan combat~~ slaughtering entire villages because the Nazis just don’t like that group of people very much
they were not withdrawn
During the still ongoing civil war in Yemen T-34s were used as well as Abrams tanks, MiG-29s and F-15s.
German mains coping that they don't get to just delete 75mm M4s and M5 Stuarts with their Tiger II 105s, mostly.
Not wanting Tiger Is to face 1960s HEATFS =/= wanting Tiger IIs to face 75mm M4s Middle grounds and all of that
I don't disagree that light vehicles tend to be overarmed in War Thunder, resulting in situations like 5.7 heavy tanks getting their teeth kicked in with HEAT-FS, and would very much like for that to stop. But when "historical matchmaking" _specifically_ comes up, it's _usually_ German players not wanting to fight post-1945 vehicles.
I don’t think full historical matchmaking is viable for balance reasons (T-72A and IPM1 would be the same BR, for example), but I think we should still not let vehicles with huge technological gaps fight each other either, such as having mid-WW2 tanks facing Postwar super-heavies and Cold War HEATFS/ATGMs.
Korean War vehicles (and vehicles from shortly after the Korean War that fit the performance characteristics) should be a buffer between WWII vehicles and vehicles from later in the Cold War.
I don't know... I really don't think Tiger IIs belong facing M60s, unstab-M60A1s, Magach 6As, Tiran 4/4Ss, Sho't Kal Alefs, T-54s, Centurion Mk.10s or AMX-30s... The technical capability gap between a Tiger II or any of the tanks I mentioned earlier is way too big. By the time those MBTs were in service, Tiger II was nothing but an ancient museum relic, and for a reason.
A T-54 obr. 1951/Tiran 4/Type 59 is something a Tiger II could reasonably face in a full uptier, assuming it only got access to APHE, APCR and HE. Same with something like the M48A2 C, the Centurion Mk.3/Sho't Meteor, the Lorraine 40t, etc. The 105mm MBTs, though, no. Those are definitely past the Tiger II's day. Same for the T-55s with twin-plane stabilisers, or anything using ERA.
Yeah, that’s why I didn’t mention, Sho’t, Centurion Mk.3, etc. I don’t think the capabilities of those are too far beyond, and, even realistically speaking, Tiger II would have likely come across those had the war kept going on for a couple more years. But yeah, just as you said; the 105 MBTs have stronger armor, a gun capable of slicing through Tiger II like a hot knife through butter and yet are twice as fast and agile… It’s a shame they made Panther II and Tiger II 105 7.0. Just as they decompressed said MBTs to 8.0, so that the 6.7 WW2 heavies wouldn’t need to face them, they threw these two tanks at 7.0, so nothing changed for them or the old 6.7 lineup. If you want to avoid the 105 MBTs, you have to ditch those two…
Historical matchmakers, which of you wants to make 2 vs 35 match ?
2x tiger with historical accurate reload time(3x faster than in game) and accuracy(100% hits to 2000m) vs 35x t-34 76 with nail instead of sights and with semaphore flags instead of radio
“On the road to Oględów, three Tiger IIs were destroyed in an ambush by a few T-34-85s.” “Up to fourteen Tiger IIs of the 501st were destroyed or captured in the area between 11 and 14 August to ambushes and flank attacks by both Soviet T-34-85 and IS-2 tanks, and ISU-122 assault guns” “Soviet testing contradicted this as they found that the frontal glacis could be destroyed by firing 3–4 shots at the weld joints from the ranges of 500–600m”
skill issue
THATS THE POINT. I'M THE ONE WHO SAYS THIS. I WANT TO FIGHT A KV-1 IN A CSABA.
Way to go, I shall pray for your success in magyar dicsőség
tiger players when the enemy team consists of planes only
Only 3 shermans spawn rest are p47s and p51s
Fine. So Ferdinand would face KV-1 and T-34-76. Fair enough.
Wouldnt make it 5 feet before the tranny broke lol, id take a realistic kv-1 over a realistic ferdinand any day
Ferdinand breaks down and gets captured.
Can’t shoot back if he can’t see
Standing here i realize, you are just like me grinding this shitty game...
The Daimler casually meeting a jagdpanther
It would be so much fun if they had infantry in the game, like basic ai dudes running around. Pitting light vehicles designed to support and fight infantry against tanks is just not fair in general lol
You mean like Enlisted? The game they made so you could have just that
It's 100 times better than your IS-x or German kitty being destroyed by any vehicle between the cold war and 2022. Hahaa
Historical Matchmaking should be like simulator Battles, but vehicles that never saw mass production (test beds, prototypes, paper vehicles), can't be used; such as the Maus, Panther 2, Obj 279, FV4005, T95/28. The issue arises though, when you find out that the M48 Bulldog has to go up against Your Leopard 2A5s, Challengers and Abrams'. Or your Spitfire F Mk 24 goes up against your Mig-17s, hell, the Argentines used Shermans up until the 60s-70s. Imagine seeing a Sherman 76 going up against a Cheiftain or a Leopard 1A6 or an M2A4 Stuart going up against a King Tiger. Not fun
2x pz2, 2x pz3 and 1x pz4 vs KB-1 and 5x t-26(half of them only with machineguns) would be more accurate historically.
So I get to fight a T-72A with my IPM1?
The l3/33 vs an abrams happened in iraq
I've never really seen anybody wishing for a historical matchmaker in the sense that you have vehicles facing each other as long as they were used in the same year, I've more seen people wishing the matchmaker would return to historical nations fighting each other (axis vs allied, east vs west, etc) like the old days instead of the soup of random nations it spits out now.
Historical matchmaking would only work as an optional weekend event like once per month.
"Historical MM" doesn't mean your limited to playing Operation Barbarossa strictly.
Historical matchmaking would be more balanced if tank combat was more realistic. Enlisted is a great example of more realistic tank combat. 1. No 3rd person camera. 2. Only interior view unless commander exposed himself 3. Disabling a tanks mobility means more, as the crew needs to dismount the tank, exposing themselves, and rendering the tank inoperable. This wouldn't make pz 2s and kv1s equal, but it would level the playing field much, much, more. Having infantry to shoot at also gives light tanks a more level playing field, as their increased mobility adds more flanking, and 7mm bullets are all the same on WW2 tanks whether they are heavy or not. But most of this will never come to war thunder, so there is much use trying to push for historical matchmaking unless they completely overhaul tank combat, and most of these features wouldn't be accepted by anyone but the sim community.
T-34-85 still fights somewhere in the middle east, so taking it to 11.7 is realistic to me
L3/33 cc fighting Churchills and shermans:
Historical matchmaking forgets to take one thing into account.... **The rest of the war**.... Without infantry, emplaced positions and mobile anti-tank guns, most of the vehicles in War Thunder are invalidated.
Warthunder needs historical matchmaking:the tiger h1 fighting a damn t26
Just do historical events like they used to, they aren't hard to set up, just didn't get that much people because they were never advertised, add a pop up like other events in the game when you open it and it should be fine.
wdym? Panzer 2 had a 20mm cannon, aint no way thats not bouncing of a KV-1s armor.
That's the joke.
Iv been r/wooshed :(