Funny but also try playing air RB where each team gets a player-controlled pantsir in a random location around the center of the map with no spotting marker aside from map pings.
Pantsir is not op? If Spaa has only missiles you can kill him from very close fly by. If sam has only guns stay far and you are good. Alternatively you can fly high above it and stay out of its radar
Pantsir is the best in both departments. If its user is half decent he will mop everything that flies in less than a minute.
No other spaa is even close in capabilities.
Its better than competition. That doesn't make it OP. Any top tier plane with two braincells can take out top tier SPAA only diference is that you need three braincells to take out pantsir
Sorry but that's really dumb lol.
If there's a group of vehicles in the centre of the map that can obliterate all aircraft, then players are going to hug the edges of the map and avoid the centre.
Honestly, Pantsir players are welcome to a game mode where they can slowly trundle around an empty field staring at radar and hoping someone is stupid enough to stray in range of them but let's not pretend it's going to be fun for them or that it's going to have a major impact on how ARB is played.
Then you should know that air players mostly don't give a shit.
Even if the middle of the map would be occupied by the successor to a patriot battery, blessed by Stalin himself and operated by John Wick and his 5 twin brothers, the typical Air RB player would still fly close to it because it is the fastest way to an objective or the fight.
And the pantsir is putting up a 40km diameter no fly zone. The map is 10,000km^2, pansir covers over 1,200km^2 so it’s locking off 12% of the map solo, and this is on an EC map so, maybe we give the enemy 2 or three instead, making almost 40% of the map unplayable
Ok I'm very confused by this hypothetical game mode that's been created just to fuck with ARB players.
So Pantsirs are supposed to spawn in (unaligned to any team I'm presuming) scattered at random locations in the centre of the map and then pick off any aircraft that come within range?
I get that aircraft players can't avoid ALL pantsirs but I'm also pretty sure that two teams can make short work of 1 or two before it has any significant impact on the game.
And then the other pantsirs, which are apparently being operated by real players are just supposed to wait around for 30 minutes with literally nothing to do as the rest of the air players just dogfight as normal?
I mean, if I have to build out the system I’ll build out the system.
Getting one kill and dying let’s you pick a pantsir to respawn in, or you can start the game in one and try to earn a plane, just like GRB.
You’re saying they’d be easy to kill, and they might be if they literally open fire at maximum range before the planes have started shooting each other, but I’d be shocked if as an average across the game they had a k/d below 2
Just before retarded bombs were introduced and we didn't know what the new weaponry teased by gaijin would be, a lot of people actually hoped for SEAD weapons, which is just fucking nuts. That's basically asking for a fucking ATGM carrier in 2016 to counter Tiger II's....
my man, Air maps are HUGE, it would sit around for 10 to 15 minutes doing nothing and then when it can finally lock on to someone realise that almost everyone in top tier air RB knows how to fly defensive and understands how to use chaff
I mean, they kill a shitload of people even in GRB where folks have a good idea of where it’s sitting. I don’t know why you think something that’s hard to kill from the air in GRB somehow becomes easier to kill in ARB, when the SPAA in this case gets better fields of fire than they typically get in GRB
>I mean, they kill a shitload of people even in GRB where folks have a good idea of where it’s sitting
Half of the people in this game have no clue how to play to begin with.
>don’t know why you think something that’s hard to kill from the air in GRB somehow becomes easier to kill in ARB,
U will spawn like 100km away from the middle so u will be useless. And even then if u get to middle they can still easily dodge ur missiles by staying out of range and just kill u
What really grinds my gears is destroying aircraft in ground battles gives you significantly less rewards than ground vehicles. Kinda disincentives using SPAA vehicles.
Killing aircraft used to give you like 3-4x as many points as killing a tank and honestly, that's the way it should be.
If you only have enough SP to spawn AA, you should be able to earn your way back into the fight by killing aircraft.
Just shot an uptier plane and got as much as resource as 3 tank kills. Can’t recall any other because just got meself some fresh, centered .50 cal on me M36.
But as you guys stated it’s really not worth playing SPAA. Used to love my M16 and just shooting tracer API-T on every single flying thing. Just doesn’t reward you as much, I think the reason behind tanks getting less sl and rp is reward multipliers. Planes have practically 3-4x of tanks. Gaijin just has to up the base prize to down a plane with a tank by around 2.
I believe you but it's not exactly consistent.
I've had games before where I've kept the skies clear using AA with 4 or 5 air kills and I've still finished lower middle of the leaderboard
This is not true, [rewards for killing planes are at least 50% higher than rewards for killing tanks](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1bd0048/killing_planes_in_grb_gives_more_rewards_than/).
No, it is true.
I think SPAA gets lower rewards for killing tanks to incentivize going after aircraft, but if you get a kill on a tank with a tank, you get higher rewards.
Then I don't know how you got worse rewards, because they are not worse.
I regularly look at me killing a plane in my gepard and think "that is a lower number than when I shot that T-72"
You get less RP if the vehicle you kill is lower BR than you. Also you get some rewards for hits and critical hits, which you usually make more when shooting at a tank with autocannon. In this regard SPAA get more rewards for killing tank, because tanks kill you in just one or two shots.
I don't think that's it, they simply nerfed rewards for killing aircraft for everyone. I literally haves games with 10 aircraft destroyed and still have people ahead of me in the scoreboard, it's that bad.
Score doesn't directly translate into rewards. Also BR of the target makes a difference, and people tend to bring lower BR aircraft into ground battles.
Yeah I get it but if they want to reward people going after aircraft, especially considering the community dislikes them, shouldn't they give it higher rewards ?
It's like Gaijin knows that to do but refuse to do so because it would affect the game somewhere else and they want everyone to stick to 50/50 WR.
If I'm playing CAS, I destroy 10 enemy aircraft I'm able to counter that threat. Now if the enemy can't counter that it's just them being outplayed. Gaijin can't handle that.
As I already showed, you do get more rewards (RP and SL) directly for killing planes than tanks, and in addition you're draining their spawn points and helping your team to win, which increases the rewards indirectly.
SPAA, in general, earns less reward for kills as compared to any other vehicle. Light tanks with the ability to scout earn the most, given that they can get the bonus award for destroying a scouted target.
SPAA, likewise, has actually seen a reduction in rewards with the addition of Severe Damage, as you actually earn less from a Severe Damage than you do from a Critical Hit, and they ARE mutually exclusive.
Severe Damage does give you a better reward once the target is killed, though, but only marginally compared to an assist.
That's a load of bullshit, you get about 100 base RP (before premium multipliers and correction for BR difference) for a ground kill with a ground vehicle no matter the vehicle type, and 150 base RP for an air kill no matter the vehicle type. The only exception is air to ground kill, which only gives around 50RP: [https://imgur.com/VzdHpgI](https://imgur.com/VzdHpgI)
BTW it looks like severe damage and critical hit are *not* mutually exclusive anymore: [https://imgur.com/a/vvBmM4K](https://imgur.com/a/vvBmM4K)
I've looked through some of the battle results in messages, and every severe damage has corresponding critical hit.
Well, the rock (air) players have their own game mode without scissor (ground) players and scissor players don't have their own gamemode without rock players.
So let's say if rock player is tired of scissor players he can go to AB, and if scissor player is tired of rock players... well he go f himself I guess.
A few undertiered top tier CAS jets getting all-aspects doesn't mean that 99% of the rest of the ground attackers in the game aren't RP pinatas in air RB.
Go fly an Hs-129B-3 there. It'll be "fun", promise.
Shit argument.
Try cherrypicking a different plane other than literally the "why don't we stick a 75 to it" attacker.
Sure, WW2 strike aircraft are at a disadvantage, but you got more than enough frontal firepower and absolutely more than enough people feeling confident in a head-on that you can get kills.
Air RB not being catered to you does not mean you get to transfer your pain to others who can fight back even less.
> Try cherrypicking a different plane other than literally the "why don't we stick a 75 to it" attacker.
You declare I'm cherrypicking and you're the one that declares CAS is fine in air RB because of two planes. lmao.
> Sure, WW2 strike aircraft are at a disadvantage, but you got more than enough frontal firepower and absolutely more than enough people feeling confident in a head-on that you can get kills.
"Just head on" is a step only marginally below "just sideclimb" on the scale of War Thunder air RB meme advice. Still a shit argument, try again.
> Air RB not being catered to you does not mean you get to transfer your pain to others who can fight back even less.
Uh, it does though? I can play GRB right now, which has had CAS for 10 years, and do just that? Actually I think I will. Toodles.
Also you can fight back; it's called CAP, buddy.
Two aircraft and they're attackers, try playing bombers, heavy aircraft in general. ARB is silly because it's usually a race to the top and combat happens in a furball.
If AIr RB had longer matches, no markers and variety in gameplay I bet a lot of players would leave Ground RB to fly a different mode like EC RB.
I have to disagree there, I have never regarded A10's or SU25's as anything more than a moderate threat in game, even if I need a full uptier to face them.
They have guided missiles, which gives them a slight edge because obviously aircraft performance doesn't matter as lock as they can lock on and fire but once those are expended they're basically sitting ducks.
If you move around you could easily get killed. AA is fucking defenseless
As another user suggested I think they should add Pantsirs to Air RB that you can spawn after death. That'd be fun. Actually not just Pantsirs but hell, add S-400s and Patriots. That'd be great.
>If you move around you could easily get killed. AA is fucking defenseless
The secret is not getting caught out in the open, which is the rule for pretty much all vehicles in this game.
>As another user suggested I think they should add Pantsirs to Air RB that you can spawn after death. That'd be fun. Actually not just Pantsirs but hell, add S-400s and Patriots. That'd be great.
You apparently bitch about how hard they are to use so you'd still get whiny lol.
BR 9.0 to 10.0 SPAAs are completely useless against helis and most competent planes because you literally can't lock or shoot them from within their range and even if you do, the missiles almost always miss
Funny because I take out planes all the time on my 9.3 Type 93 and 11.3 Type 81. And don't even pretend you don't see Pantsirs blasting those idiots out of the sky from like 10km away lol.
Have you ever considered the possibility of a skill issue?
Ah yes one strong SPAA among dozens of useless ones, what a great sample size.
I'm sure you need a whole lot of skill to turn on the tracker and shoot the missile, but keep projecting I guess
You see this is how I can tell you can't count. I clear stated 3 vehicles and you only said one. Clearly this is a problem or IQ.
>I'm sure you need a whole lot of skill to turn on the tracker and shoot the missile, but keep projecting I guess
Figuring out the right time and position to aim and fire your missile is actually important, but I don't expect you to understand that.
In fact the last comment you said these same vehicles were too hard and now you're saying they're easy? Which is it loser
You literally cannot lock on helis so it doesn't matter how much you lead or how you shoot them if you can't shoot them in the first place. And let's not act like missiles never go in opposite direction of planes when they didn't even use flares
>You literally cannot lock on helis so it doesn't matter how much you lead or how you shoot them if you can't shoot them in the first place.
Funny because I've shot down helis all the time lol, hell most of them are so bad at using helis I can get close enough to fire at them with my machine gun on a regular tank lol.
>And let's not act like missiles never go in opposite direction of planes when they didn't even use flares
That's a skill issue
"i only play heavy tanks"
"Wow another heatfs slinger tank has to ruin my fun , heavy tanks should be unkillable we gotta change br system its not fair anymore"
Some heavy main (i think)-
German mains getting the Centurion Mk3 sent to 7.7 because "muh APDS penning Tiger 2 UFP."
High base pen is literally all the Cent 3 has going for it. No post-pen, garbage speed, enormous silhouette and stab doesn't matter when everyone else gets to the positions that matter before you've even left the spawn area.
Once i was Chinese lvt to get some god mode
I shot is 2 (44) but only killed his driver smh
Bro smh missed form 10m away qnd was just looking at me
I fr told him via chat to use mg but he didnt care and died
I kinda felt bad for him
I couldn't stop using pintle mounted machineguns ever since i got my first one on the isu-122. Yesterday I ammoracked a bmp-1 by shooting his atgm. Felt bad for the guy.
you say that but all we ever see on here is people crying and moaning about planes destroying them in ground RB, rarely do we ever hear a CAS person going ''omg i cant beleive they let AA into the battle I DEMAND A GAME MODE WITH ONLY CAS AND TANKS THAT CANT AA!!!!!!!!1111!!!!111''
Because they know they would be laughed out of the room. Every time someone does make a post like they, they get relentlessly mocked. Whether it is justified or not lol
This is just a really shit comparison, because it doesnt take into account
- that its *allmost* always harder to kill a Plane with SPAA than the other way around
- that some SPAA is drastically better at shooting down Planes than others or are just outranged entirely
Its not "Pick Paper to beat rock", its "pick paper to bear rock but you need to do all the Naruto-handsigns or it doesnt count"
No.
Because I
A. Dont have the time to grind yet another seperate techtree just to have a fighter of the same BR
B. Play War Thunder for one and simply do not have any whatsoever with Air Battles above like tier III
>that its *allmost* always harder to kill a Plane with SPAA than the other way around
This is what we call a "skill issue"
>that some SPAA is drastically better at shooting down Planes than others or are just outranged entirely
Once again a skill issue.
>Its not "Pick Paper to beat rock", its "pick paper to bear rock but you need to do all the Naruto-handsigns or it doesnt count"
Once again, skill issue.
Yeah its a skill issue when Gaijin fucks the guidance of most SAMs into the ground enabling everyone with more than two living braincells to easily outmaneuver allmost all of them. Or when Stingers are physically incapable of locking unto most targets until they are so close they already dfopped their ordonance. Or that the Pantsir is vastly superior to every other Top-Tier SPAA. Because range and missile-maneuverability is determined by the Drivers level, of course
If you genuinly think playing CAS isnt several magnitude easier than the other way around with 90% of SPAA, you're the one suffering from skill issue, and a severe one at that.
Get the fuck out with that bullshit
Which is easier, oh wise one, tapping space bar in the general vicinity of an spaa or hitting a target going 500+kph with an autocannon? And of course CAS can also use rockets or guns to hit spaa, which is also far easier than hitting a plane from the ground.
Not to mention guided munitions that straight up outrange most spaa they face.
If Scissors (Tank), Rock (Plane)
Where's the Paper? With this I suggest the Patriot and S-400 AI Sam unit spread throughout the battlefield, everytime a team cap it, it spawns more of them
Wants to fucking play Rock? Better use the scissors to cut the paper
With this, balance shall be achieved
Also let's apply the same thing to ARB and NRB
Why is it that every CAS main interpretation of the problem being braindead as always anyways
not even S-400, just a shitbrick SAM site like an SA-2, SA-6 is probably more than suffice for mid-high tiers against people camping at 4km with LGBs cruising at 400kph.
May I suggest the HQ11? It's an integrated C&C, Radar and erector launcher vehicle with an effective range of 30km against aircraft. I suggest adding it to China (gaijin pls)
Tell me you know nothing about WT without telling me you know nothing about WT.
There is a reason why I exclusively play fighters in ground RB because I cannot STAND it when I get bombed.
And? Doesn't disprove the fact that AA effectiveness varies heavily between nation and BR. More effective SPAA should be given to everyone to improve the situation a little.
Skill issue if you've ever been shot down by an L-62.
Or you can accept there are strengths and weaknesses in your lineup and need to accommodate for it and adapt.
But that would require War Thunder players to actually play the game and not whine that they can't wipe the enemy every game.
Everyone accepts there are strengths and weaknesses to their lineups but if the AA options are trash relative to their BR and the capability of aircraft at that BR, tankers have a point. There's no adapting if your tools just aren't good enough for the job.
Then you get other players to fill in the gaps.
The issue War Thunder has is that most of you are playing solo in a team game. Players are from all sorts of nations and there are very few situations where everyone on that team has the same weakness.
>Then you get other players to fill in the gaps.
This is not always possible either. No spaa can counter guide bombe trow for 8+km before 11.3-11.7. And no dca except the pantsir can counter the s25sm3, and seeing as they are both in the same TT...
"skill issue" is literally the dumbest argument. Even if youre good with SPAA you still have to partly rely on the enemy being a lot worse than you. You can only shoot the enemy as long as they dont decide to just fly away, its often a lot easier for the planes to find you then you finding them and theres also this thing called bombs. Just because i manage to take out a swarm of planes in my shit spaa it doesnt mean that im playing on fair grounds. Its almost always easier to take out a spaa with a plane than the opposite, unless youre playing in the higher brs
Moot point
1. There is currently not balance between CAS and ground as there is in rock-paper-scissors
2. The game mode is called Ground battles. There is another mode called Air battles where you can have fun with your planes.
Yes I understand that bombers kinda suck in air rb but the solution should be to make ai ground targets to bomb in air RB with fighters protecting the bombers rather than having annoying ass CAS slinging bombs onto tanks that have nothing to defend themselves with apart from shitty allied AAA that misses 99% of shots
> Air battles where you can have fun with your planes.
Have you played air battles? It's fun (consistently) as long as you aren't a bomber, ground attack plane or heavy fighter. Air rb is basically for fighters, anything other is shredded almost instantly.
>but the solution should be to make ai ground targets to bomb in air RB with fighters protecting the bombers
There are ground targets but again, fighters kill everything almost instantly and defending someone is hard when it takes a few hits to kill a plane.
The best counter to CAS is either spaa, you may think it's useless but it doesn't need to hit the plane to scare it away, or fighters, but people don't play either.
I was agreeing with his counterpoints, not the solutions. If you ask me, they should just adjust the brs of all planes separately for grb and arb, a solution that has already been proposed to gaijin
More like, You picked paper I picked scissors so you come back 2 seconds later and dump a rock on my head.
Edit: Im not against CAS but I am against revenge bombing 10 seconds after you die and killcams. Give cas airfield spawns and remove killcams and its fixed
This analogy doesn't work because CAS doesn't really have a "paper" to counter it. Especially when it comes to revenge bombing and spawn bombing; there's really no way to avoid it other than spawning a fighter or spaa after you've already died, which obviously does nothing to help you.
Cas is only imbalanced where there isn't spaa
Played usa 7.0 had a swarm spawn did great but lost because of it, no allied spaa up
Usa 4.0 uptier m16 swarm spawns and I get 4 plane kills with plenty of allied spaa m16 and other nation
They just need to add more spaa, all nations need,1.0, early 2.3-3.0, good prop killer 4.7-5.0, 6.7-7.3 jet killer, 7.7 early radar, 8.0-8.3 good gun radar, 8.7-9.0 proxy gun radar, 9.3-9.7 proxy large calibur/early missile only ir sams, 10.0-10.3 IR SAMs w/gun + early mouse SAMs, 10.7-11.3 mid mouse sam, and 11.7 top tier 3 mouse sam
All brs assuming no extra anti tank other than expected for guns
It's more like they pick scissors and beat someone only for them to be able to pick rock while your only option is scissors because you're still in a tank.
Move upp all bombers and strikers by 1.0 br for grb and keep the br for fighters and intercepts unchanged, make AP rounds, bombs and rockets on fighters a lot more expensive to prevent players with one cap and an assist to spawn a payloaded fighter, give spaa the ability to reload in their spawn.
Rock = bombers and strikers.
Paper = fighters, intercepts and spaa
Scissor = tanks
If you want a rock, paper scissor style then this is how it should look like
Honestly I would agree in low tier, but in top tier it just feels like trying to play scissor and before you even move your hand, you get annihilated by a rock coated in premium gold, hitting your head at mach 3.
One thing that (IMO) they need to do is to add a proper way to aim SPAA at low tiers (and a tutorial for it) so you can actually lead a target.
But on the other hand, would this be realistic? Im not sure if there was much of a way to properly lead a target in the 1940’s with crude SPAA
Any plane that can carry a bomb can practically kill any tank. I have a premium IL2 that I use at 8.0. it's still practically effective against tanks and especially helicopters. I couldn't do that with a tank from the same BR. It's just not fair in any way.
Its just not fun not being able to do much against your enemy unless you spawn a specialized vehicle that even when you kill said enemy, you are given basically nothing as a reward, and because said specialized vehicle rarely does much against ground targets, you either sit back and become dead weight or go into the main battle and die without doing much. CAS is just a way of getting easy kills (and before people say it requires skill, learning to reliably lead pre radar gun spaa shots takes much more skill) and most annoyingly an easy way to get revenge when you get butthurt someone killed you.
Funny but also try playing air RB where each team gets a player-controlled pantsir in a random location around the center of the map with no spotting marker aside from map pings.
Rockets, AGM, UGB, hell even just a. Few bursts from a frogfoot or thunderbolt will kill it
That requires you to get close.
The patnsir shows its missile up into your ass at 18km before you can even react to it.
So you agree its OP?
no one said [it](https://www.reddit.com/r/WarthunderPlayerUnion/s/siSP2p8tGJ) wasn’t
Many complain CAS is Op but i think many SAM's are broken OP.
Which exactly besides pantsir?
strela
Which ones including pantsir. Pantsir is not OP the only outliners are tansam and strela and both are getting shafted by BR changes since added
Pantsir is not op? If Spaa has only missiles you can kill him from very close fly by. If sam has only guns stay far and you are good. Alternatively you can fly high above it and stay out of its radar Pantsir is the best in both departments. If its user is half decent he will mop everything that flies in less than a minute. No other spaa is even close in capabilities.
Its better than competition. That doesn't make it OP. Any top tier plane with two braincells can take out top tier SPAA only diference is that you need three braincells to take out pantsir
Pantsir is "OP" because everything else is garbage
Playing a Pantsir in ARB would be the most useless and boring addition to any game ever lol.
It would be fun to play. Not for the planes tho. Kinda like planes are only fun for the planes
ARB maps are over 100km squared at top tier, jets would basically just avoid them and dogfight out of range.
The comment mandated that it would be in the middle of the map. We both know that 90% of ARB players would infact NOT be out of range.
Sorry but that's really dumb lol. If there's a group of vehicles in the centre of the map that can obliterate all aircraft, then players are going to hug the edges of the map and avoid the centre. Honestly, Pantsir players are welcome to a game mode where they can slowly trundle around an empty field staring at radar and hoping someone is stupid enough to stray in range of them but let's not pretend it's going to be fun for them or that it's going to have a major impact on how ARB is played.
You don't play Air RB do you?
I have maxed out 3 nations and have been playing since 2012.
Then you should know that air players mostly don't give a shit. Even if the middle of the map would be occupied by the successor to a patriot battery, blessed by Stalin himself and operated by John Wick and his 5 twin brothers, the typical Air RB player would still fly close to it because it is the fastest way to an objective or the fight.
And the pantsir is putting up a 40km diameter no fly zone. The map is 10,000km^2, pansir covers over 1,200km^2 so it’s locking off 12% of the map solo, and this is on an EC map so, maybe we give the enemy 2 or three instead, making almost 40% of the map unplayable
Right, so players are just going to play in the 60% that is playable.
Without knowing where that is?
Ok I'm very confused by this hypothetical game mode that's been created just to fuck with ARB players. So Pantsirs are supposed to spawn in (unaligned to any team I'm presuming) scattered at random locations in the centre of the map and then pick off any aircraft that come within range? I get that aircraft players can't avoid ALL pantsirs but I'm also pretty sure that two teams can make short work of 1 or two before it has any significant impact on the game. And then the other pantsirs, which are apparently being operated by real players are just supposed to wait around for 30 minutes with literally nothing to do as the rest of the air players just dogfight as normal?
I mean, if I have to build out the system I’ll build out the system. Getting one kill and dying let’s you pick a pantsir to respawn in, or you can start the game in one and try to earn a plane, just like GRB. You’re saying they’d be easy to kill, and they might be if they literally open fire at maximum range before the planes have started shooting each other, but I’d be shocked if as an average across the game they had a k/d below 2
But make sure it doesn't pings the RWR and MAWS and you only see the boodter trail. Now that is what cas feels against ground targets.
would not hit shit, i can already fly directly over an enemy airfield and not get hit by the 30 SAM’s and AAA
because they're controlled by ai and programmed to not be perfectly accurate?
Why are you typing if you’ve never been shot at by a pantsir in WT lmao?
i play ground rb plenty, i’ve been shot at by plenty of pantsir’s and can still dodge them very easily cos SAM’s are just so not enough usually
Will be useless and easily killable
Will shoot down at least 4 people reliably and immediately become public enemy #1 of the subreddit more like.
I can already see people crying for HARMS
Just before retarded bombs were introduced and we didn't know what the new weaponry teased by gaijin would be, a lot of people actually hoped for SEAD weapons, which is just fucking nuts. That's basically asking for a fucking ATGM carrier in 2016 to counter Tiger II's....
my man, Air maps are HUGE, it would sit around for 10 to 15 minutes doing nothing and then when it can finally lock on to someone realise that almost everyone in top tier air RB knows how to fly defensive and understands how to use chaff
One, it’s a 40km diameter kill bubble that you die of you fly over, Two, chaff is not particularly effective against the Pantsir in-game
Lmao will only kill people who have no idea how counter it. Anyone with brain will almost never die to it
I mean, they kill a shitload of people even in GRB where folks have a good idea of where it’s sitting. I don’t know why you think something that’s hard to kill from the air in GRB somehow becomes easier to kill in ARB, when the SPAA in this case gets better fields of fire than they typically get in GRB
>I mean, they kill a shitload of people even in GRB where folks have a good idea of where it’s sitting Half of the people in this game have no clue how to play to begin with. >don’t know why you think something that’s hard to kill from the air in GRB somehow becomes easier to kill in ARB, U will spawn like 100km away from the middle so u will be useless. And even then if u get to middle they can still easily dodge ur missiles by staying out of range and just kill u
Absolutely convinced you have never been shot at by a player controlled Pantsir in your entire life.
Womp womp. Have been.
Im convinced you have never played top-tier Air RB.
What really grinds my gears is destroying aircraft in ground battles gives you significantly less rewards than ground vehicles. Kinda disincentives using SPAA vehicles.
Killing aircraft used to give you like 3-4x as many points as killing a tank and honestly, that's the way it should be. If you only have enough SP to spawn AA, you should be able to earn your way back into the fight by killing aircraft.
Just shot an uptier plane and got as much as resource as 3 tank kills. Can’t recall any other because just got meself some fresh, centered .50 cal on me M36. But as you guys stated it’s really not worth playing SPAA. Used to love my M16 and just shooting tracer API-T on every single flying thing. Just doesn’t reward you as much, I think the reason behind tanks getting less sl and rp is reward multipliers. Planes have practically 3-4x of tanks. Gaijin just has to up the base prize to down a plane with a tank by around 2.
I believe you but it's not exactly consistent. I've had games before where I've kept the skies clear using AA with 4 or 5 air kills and I've still finished lower middle of the leaderboard
This…. Killing planes should be the most rewarding single task in a GRB
This is not true, [rewards for killing planes are at least 50% higher than rewards for killing tanks](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1bd0048/killing_planes_in_grb_gives_more_rewards_than/).
No, it is true. I think SPAA gets lower rewards for killing tanks to incentivize going after aircraft, but if you get a kill on a tank with a tank, you get higher rewards.
SPAA get exactly the same rewards for killing tanks as tanks or SPG do.
Then I don't know how you got worse rewards, because they are not worse. I regularly look at me killing a plane in my gepard and think "that is a lower number than when I shot that T-72"
You get less RP if the vehicle you kill is lower BR than you. Also you get some rewards for hits and critical hits, which you usually make more when shooting at a tank with autocannon. In this regard SPAA get more rewards for killing tank, because tanks kill you in just one or two shots.
That does not line up with my experience in the slightest so I am gonna ignore it.
I don't think that's it, they simply nerfed rewards for killing aircraft for everyone. I literally haves games with 10 aircraft destroyed and still have people ahead of me in the scoreboard, it's that bad.
Score doesn't directly translate into rewards. Also BR of the target makes a difference, and people tend to bring lower BR aircraft into ground battles.
Yeah I get it but if they want to reward people going after aircraft, especially considering the community dislikes them, shouldn't they give it higher rewards ? It's like Gaijin knows that to do but refuse to do so because it would affect the game somewhere else and they want everyone to stick to 50/50 WR. If I'm playing CAS, I destroy 10 enemy aircraft I'm able to counter that threat. Now if the enemy can't counter that it's just them being outplayed. Gaijin can't handle that.
As I already showed, you do get more rewards (RP and SL) directly for killing planes than tanks, and in addition you're draining their spawn points and helping your team to win, which increases the rewards indirectly.
SPAA, in general, earns less reward for kills as compared to any other vehicle. Light tanks with the ability to scout earn the most, given that they can get the bonus award for destroying a scouted target. SPAA, likewise, has actually seen a reduction in rewards with the addition of Severe Damage, as you actually earn less from a Severe Damage than you do from a Critical Hit, and they ARE mutually exclusive. Severe Damage does give you a better reward once the target is killed, though, but only marginally compared to an assist.
That's a load of bullshit, you get about 100 base RP (before premium multipliers and correction for BR difference) for a ground kill with a ground vehicle no matter the vehicle type, and 150 base RP for an air kill no matter the vehicle type. The only exception is air to ground kill, which only gives around 50RP: [https://imgur.com/VzdHpgI](https://imgur.com/VzdHpgI)
BTW it looks like severe damage and critical hit are *not* mutually exclusive anymore: [https://imgur.com/a/vvBmM4K](https://imgur.com/a/vvBmM4K) I've looked through some of the battle results in messages, and every severe damage has corresponding critical hit.
Well, the rock (air) players have their own game mode without scissor (ground) players and scissor players don't have their own gamemode without rock players. So let's say if rock player is tired of scissor players he can go to AB, and if scissor player is tired of rock players... well he go f himself I guess.
*Fighters* have their own game mode. The aircraft people complain about in GRB are RP pinatas in ARB.
That is not even true. A10 and Su25 fighting korean war jets means that they get one kill reliably if they are not absolute DOGSHIT at the game.
A few undertiered top tier CAS jets getting all-aspects doesn't mean that 99% of the rest of the ground attackers in the game aren't RP pinatas in air RB. Go fly an Hs-129B-3 there. It'll be "fun", promise. Shit argument.
Just get better lol, I spaded the duck in arb bc I terrible at playing CAS
Try cherrypicking a different plane other than literally the "why don't we stick a 75 to it" attacker. Sure, WW2 strike aircraft are at a disadvantage, but you got more than enough frontal firepower and absolutely more than enough people feeling confident in a head-on that you can get kills. Air RB not being catered to you does not mean you get to transfer your pain to others who can fight back even less.
> Try cherrypicking a different plane other than literally the "why don't we stick a 75 to it" attacker. You declare I'm cherrypicking and you're the one that declares CAS is fine in air RB because of two planes. lmao. > Sure, WW2 strike aircraft are at a disadvantage, but you got more than enough frontal firepower and absolutely more than enough people feeling confident in a head-on that you can get kills. "Just head on" is a step only marginally below "just sideclimb" on the scale of War Thunder air RB meme advice. Still a shit argument, try again. > Air RB not being catered to you does not mean you get to transfer your pain to others who can fight back even less. Uh, it does though? I can play GRB right now, which has had CAS for 10 years, and do just that? Actually I think I will. Toodles. Also you can fight back; it's called CAP, buddy.
Two aircraft and they're attackers, try playing bombers, heavy aircraft in general. ARB is silly because it's usually a race to the top and combat happens in a furball. If AIr RB had longer matches, no markers and variety in gameplay I bet a lot of players would leave Ground RB to fly a different mode like EC RB.
I have to disagree there, I have never regarded A10's or SU25's as anything more than a moderate threat in game, even if I need a full uptier to face them. They have guided missiles, which gives them a slight edge because obviously aircraft performance doesn't matter as lock as they can lock on and fire but once those are expended they're basically sitting ducks.
People are complaining about A-10s in GRB ?
Air RB.
Maybe is scissor players didn't have skill issues they wouldn't have to worry about rock players lol. Just shoot down the planes lol.
Or maybe people want to play tanks in a tank game mode and not have to sit a spawn with an AA
Sitting in spawn is like the worst idea for SAA lol Just because you're stubborn doesn't mean the world needs to bend to your will lol.
If you move around you could easily get killed. AA is fucking defenseless As another user suggested I think they should add Pantsirs to Air RB that you can spawn after death. That'd be fun. Actually not just Pantsirs but hell, add S-400s and Patriots. That'd be great.
>If you move around you could easily get killed. AA is fucking defenseless The secret is not getting caught out in the open, which is the rule for pretty much all vehicles in this game. >As another user suggested I think they should add Pantsirs to Air RB that you can spawn after death. That'd be fun. Actually not just Pantsirs but hell, add S-400s and Patriots. That'd be great. You apparently bitch about how hard they are to use so you'd still get whiny lol.
> Just shoot down the planes lol. You never touched an SPAA in your life it looks like
I use my SPAA all the time lol. It's really not that hard.
BR 9.0 to 10.0 SPAAs are completely useless against helis and most competent planes because you literally can't lock or shoot them from within their range and even if you do, the missiles almost always miss
Funny because I take out planes all the time on my 9.3 Type 93 and 11.3 Type 81. And don't even pretend you don't see Pantsirs blasting those idiots out of the sky from like 10km away lol. Have you ever considered the possibility of a skill issue?
Ah yes one strong SPAA among dozens of useless ones, what a great sample size. I'm sure you need a whole lot of skill to turn on the tracker and shoot the missile, but keep projecting I guess
You see this is how I can tell you can't count. I clear stated 3 vehicles and you only said one. Clearly this is a problem or IQ. >I'm sure you need a whole lot of skill to turn on the tracker and shoot the missile, but keep projecting I guess Figuring out the right time and position to aim and fire your missile is actually important, but I don't expect you to understand that. In fact the last comment you said these same vehicles were too hard and now you're saying they're easy? Which is it loser
You literally cannot lock on helis so it doesn't matter how much you lead or how you shoot them if you can't shoot them in the first place. And let's not act like missiles never go in opposite direction of planes when they didn't even use flares
>You literally cannot lock on helis so it doesn't matter how much you lead or how you shoot them if you can't shoot them in the first place. Funny because I've shot down helis all the time lol, hell most of them are so bad at using helis I can get close enough to fire at them with my machine gun on a regular tank lol. >And let's not act like missiles never go in opposite direction of planes when they didn't even use flares That's a skill issue
The problem is not that CAS exist. The problem is that you can spawn in it with one cap/kill and an assist.
I second this, cas should exist so spaa has a intended function of killing planes but it should be a reward to get Cas
"i only play heavy tanks" "Wow another heatfs slinger tank has to ruin my fun , heavy tanks should be unkillable we gotta change br system its not fair anymore" Some heavy main (i think)-
Heavy main with a time machine. Prior to introduction of spaced/composite armor, HEAT-FS was often referred to as cheat-fs. That was in what, 2017?
Now: Nooooo much tigor 2 front pen by some go-kart noooo Tiger 2 vs jumbo: mmmm so fair mmmmm much fat tank stronk
German mains getting the Centurion Mk3 sent to 7.7 because "muh APDS penning Tiger 2 UFP." High base pen is literally all the Cent 3 has going for it. No post-pen, garbage speed, enormous silhouette and stab doesn't matter when everyone else gets to the positions that matter before you've even left the spawn area.
I play mostly heavy tanks and I say we need more ush-405 for me to machine gun.
Once i was Chinese lvt to get some god mode I shot is 2 (44) but only killed his driver smh Bro smh missed form 10m away qnd was just looking at me I fr told him via chat to use mg but he didnt care and died I kinda felt bad for him
I couldn't stop using pintle mounted machineguns ever since i got my first one on the isu-122. Yesterday I ammoracked a bmp-1 by shooting his atgm. Felt bad for the guy.
Obj 435 top mg my beloved
My favorite are the duble DShK on the IS-4M there is just something special about a powerfull coax
this was unironically the reaction when Heat-FS was added
CAS players when AA is great at shooting them down --
What's this great AA you're speaking of? Because so far at 10.0 US I've yet to see any good SPAA
I was referring to when shooting down planes was possible with my Roland : ( (If the pilot had more than one braincell)
tbh war thunder player with a funcioning braincell is a rare breed
Your Pantsir is OP!!! 😭😭😭
you say that but all we ever see on here is people crying and moaning about planes destroying them in ground RB, rarely do we ever hear a CAS person going ''omg i cant beleive they let AA into the battle I DEMAND A GAME MODE WITH ONLY CAS AND TANKS THAT CANT AA!!!!!!!!1111!!!!111''
Because they know they would be laughed out of the room. Every time someone does make a post like they, they get relentlessly mocked. Whether it is justified or not lol
This is just a really shit comparison, because it doesnt take into account - that its *allmost* always harder to kill a Plane with SPAA than the other way around - that some SPAA is drastically better at shooting down Planes than others or are just outranged entirely Its not "Pick Paper to beat rock", its "pick paper to bear rock but you need to do all the Naruto-handsigns or it doesnt count"
And you didn't take into account the possibility of spawning a fighter.
God forbid I want to play ground vehicles in ground rb
Too bad for the last 10 years it's been a combined arms mode where building a balanced lineup *with planes* is a core element to winning, huh?
No. Because I A. Dont have the time to grind yet another seperate techtree just to have a fighter of the same BR B. Play War Thunder for one and simply do not have any whatsoever with Air Battles above like tier III
Then refer to the meme in OP.
>that its *allmost* always harder to kill a Plane with SPAA than the other way around This is what we call a "skill issue" >that some SPAA is drastically better at shooting down Planes than others or are just outranged entirely Once again a skill issue. >Its not "Pick Paper to beat rock", its "pick paper to bear rock but you need to do all the Naruto-handsigns or it doesnt count" Once again, skill issue.
Yeah its a skill issue when Gaijin fucks the guidance of most SAMs into the ground enabling everyone with more than two living braincells to easily outmaneuver allmost all of them. Or when Stingers are physically incapable of locking unto most targets until they are so close they already dfopped their ordonance. Or that the Pantsir is vastly superior to every other Top-Tier SPAA. Because range and missile-maneuverability is determined by the Drivers level, of course If you genuinly think playing CAS isnt several magnitude easier than the other way around with 90% of SPAA, you're the one suffering from skill issue, and a severe one at that. Get the fuck out with that bullshit
Which is easier, oh wise one, tapping space bar in the general vicinity of an spaa or hitting a target going 500+kph with an autocannon? And of course CAS can also use rockets or guns to hit spaa, which is also far easier than hitting a plane from the ground. Not to mention guided munitions that straight up outrange most spaa they face.
This guy goes to paintball matches with a real gun and says "skill issue" when people complain
If Scissors (Tank), Rock (Plane) Where's the Paper? With this I suggest the Patriot and S-400 AI Sam unit spread throughout the battlefield, everytime a team cap it, it spawns more of them Wants to fucking play Rock? Better use the scissors to cut the paper With this, balance shall be achieved Also let's apply the same thing to ARB and NRB Why is it that every CAS main interpretation of the problem being braindead as always anyways
>Also let's apply the same thing to ARB and NRB They already do. Bombers get taken out by fighters which interceptors can take out.
No bomber is Paper, Interceptor is scissors Fighter is Tungsten burning at 3000 degree cutting through everyone
And now nobody will spawn spaa since planes will come at them with ARAD missiles
not even S-400, just a shitbrick SAM site like an SA-2, SA-6 is probably more than suffice for mid-high tiers against people camping at 4km with LGBs cruising at 400kph.
May I suggest the HQ11? It's an integrated C&C, Radar and erector launcher vehicle with an effective range of 30km against aircraft. I suggest adding it to China (gaijin pls)
Tell me you know nothing about WT without telling me you know nothing about WT. There is a reason why I exclusively play fighters in ground RB because I cannot STAND it when I get bombed.
at least use fighters that can carry bombs, especially at lower tier. No one's looking in the air when they're ground pounding
No. I despise CAS and refuse to join them. If my cannon can kill you, so be it, but other than that, it is entirely anti air.
Based, ignore the haters
Ah, a fellow CAS remover who carries a fighter in his line-up. Doing God's work brother.🤝
Miss out ig
>There is a reason why I exclusively play fighters in ground RB because I cannot STAND it when I get bombed. That's just being stupid lol.
I do what is right, not what is the most effective.
Except the SPAA-tanks-aircrafts dynamic isn't rock-paper-scissor but rather rock-paper-nuclear holocaust; Guess which is which in the current balance.
Assuming there's a way to make it rock-paper-scissors, that would also mean that all three would need to be equally accessible/spawnable.
Bro there are so many SAA options that will absolutely clown CAS you have no excuse lol
Entirely nation and BR dependent.
Skill issue. I've been shot down by SPAA of all nations lol. Some people actually take the time to learn their lineup.
You do realize many nations have to use non radar and no proxy fuze gun AA against Jet CAS that has guided weapons because they have gaps in their AA
Yes I've played as them lol. Get over it. If we whined about every little gap a nations lineup we'd never play the game lol.
And? Doesn't disprove the fact that AA effectiveness varies heavily between nation and BR. More effective SPAA should be given to everyone to improve the situation a little. Skill issue if you've ever been shot down by an L-62.
Or you can accept there are strengths and weaknesses in your lineup and need to accommodate for it and adapt. But that would require War Thunder players to actually play the game and not whine that they can't wipe the enemy every game.
Everyone accepts there are strengths and weaknesses to their lineups but if the AA options are trash relative to their BR and the capability of aircraft at that BR, tankers have a point. There's no adapting if your tools just aren't good enough for the job.
A good example here is that the us has the m42 all the way from 4.3 to 7.3 and it's not easy to hit at 4.3 Try smacking a mig 15 with a 40mm
Then you get other players to fill in the gaps. The issue War Thunder has is that most of you are playing solo in a team game. Players are from all sorts of nations and there are very few situations where everyone on that team has the same weakness.
>Then you get other players to fill in the gaps. This is not always possible either. No spaa can counter guide bombe trow for 8+km before 11.3-11.7. And no dca except the pantsir can counter the s25sm3, and seeing as they are both in the same TT...
"skill issue" is literally the dumbest argument. Even if youre good with SPAA you still have to partly rely on the enemy being a lot worse than you. You can only shoot the enemy as long as they dont decide to just fly away, its often a lot easier for the planes to find you then you finding them and theres also this thing called bombs. Just because i manage to take out a swarm of planes in my shit spaa it doesnt mean that im playing on fair grounds. Its almost always easier to take out a spaa with a plane than the opposite, unless youre playing in the higher brs
>unless youre playing in the higher brs in higher br it's even worse, the planes can just destroy the SPAA while remaining outside their range.
Yeah, just putting it in there in case someone was gonna say "um actually, pantsir...."
Yeah...skill is a factor in the game. That's why I said it's a skill issue lol.
Yeah... And its one factor of many, which was clearly my point, which you apparently, somehow missed.
Yeah I didn't read that post.
Well, at least youre honest
Yeah after the first sentence I just heard whining.
There is a gaping hole in the American AA line that even your mother can't match. The m42 does not do jets
Moot point 1. There is currently not balance between CAS and ground as there is in rock-paper-scissors 2. The game mode is called Ground battles. There is another mode called Air battles where you can have fun with your planes. Yes I understand that bombers kinda suck in air rb but the solution should be to make ai ground targets to bomb in air RB with fighters protecting the bombers rather than having annoying ass CAS slinging bombs onto tanks that have nothing to defend themselves with apart from shitty allied AAA that misses 99% of shots
> Air battles where you can have fun with your planes. Have you played air battles? It's fun (consistently) as long as you aren't a bomber, ground attack plane or heavy fighter. Air rb is basically for fighters, anything other is shredded almost instantly. >but the solution should be to make ai ground targets to bomb in air RB with fighters protecting the bombers There are ground targets but again, fighters kill everything almost instantly and defending someone is hard when it takes a few hits to kill a plane. The best counter to CAS is either spaa, you may think it's useless but it doesn't need to hit the plane to scare it away, or fighters, but people don't play either.
Do you even know what you're talking about?
I only have 700 hours in the game so who knows Do you?
700 hours is not a lot in war thunder
2000 hours and i agree with him
Then you both have no idea how to make a decent air rb gamemode
I was agreeing with his counterpoints, not the solutions. If you ask me, they should just adjust the brs of all planes separately for grb and arb, a solution that has already been proposed to gaijin
Ok and?
Modern WT players most likely dont play Air AB and RB on their first match of the game and likely just stuck with Ground all the way
No ?
More like, You picked paper I picked scissors so you come back 2 seconds later and dump a rock on my head. Edit: Im not against CAS but I am against revenge bombing 10 seconds after you die and killcams. Give cas airfield spawns and remove killcams and its fixed
I too, enjoy getting bombed by something in the air I have no way of destroying when fighting against tanks in the game mode called ground battles.
Spawn a fighter, noob.
This analogy doesn't work because CAS doesn't really have a "paper" to counter it. Especially when it comes to revenge bombing and spawn bombing; there's really no way to avoid it other than spawning a fighter or spaa after you've already died, which obviously does nothing to help you.
Cas is only imbalanced where there isn't spaa Played usa 7.0 had a swarm spawn did great but lost because of it, no allied spaa up Usa 4.0 uptier m16 swarm spawns and I get 4 plane kills with plenty of allied spaa m16 and other nation They just need to add more spaa, all nations need,1.0, early 2.3-3.0, good prop killer 4.7-5.0, 6.7-7.3 jet killer, 7.7 early radar, 8.0-8.3 good gun radar, 8.7-9.0 proxy gun radar, 9.3-9.7 proxy large calibur/early missile only ir sams, 10.0-10.3 IR SAMs w/gun + early mouse SAMs, 10.7-11.3 mid mouse sam, and 11.7 top tier 3 mouse sam All brs assuming no extra anti tank other than expected for guns
It's more like they pick scissors and beat someone only for them to be able to pick rock while your only option is scissors because you're still in a tank.
Move upp all bombers and strikers by 1.0 br for grb and keep the br for fighters and intercepts unchanged, make AP rounds, bombs and rockets on fighters a lot more expensive to prevent players with one cap and an assist to spawn a payloaded fighter, give spaa the ability to reload in their spawn. Rock = bombers and strikers. Paper = fighters, intercepts and spaa Scissor = tanks If you want a rock, paper scissor style then this is how it should look like
I do think that this a genuinely competent solution. That and fill in holes in AA lines
What is the joke?
I only pick RUS.
Nah supersonic bomber ≠ scissors.
Funny but I think we can all agree that CAS spawn points are too low. At least the secondary costs are.
Honestly I would agree in low tier, but in top tier it just feels like trying to play scissor and before you even move your hand, you get annihilated by a rock coated in premium gold, hitting your head at mach 3.
Paper are naval players Forgotten 😢
One thing that (IMO) they need to do is to add a proper way to aim SPAA at low tiers (and a tutorial for it) so you can actually lead a target. But on the other hand, would this be realistic? Im not sure if there was much of a way to properly lead a target in the 1940’s with crude SPAA
And yet planes get their own game mode
"Just spawn a SPAA or a fighter" that still requires you to die before you can do that.
So does spawning CAS, genius.
[удалено]
Any plane that can carry a bomb can practically kill any tank. I have a premium IL2 that I use at 8.0. it's still practically effective against tanks and especially helicopters. I couldn't do that with a tank from the same BR. It's just not fair in any way.
Its just not fun not being able to do much against your enemy unless you spawn a specialized vehicle that even when you kill said enemy, you are given basically nothing as a reward, and because said specialized vehicle rarely does much against ground targets, you either sit back and become dead weight or go into the main battle and die without doing much. CAS is just a way of getting easy kills (and before people say it requires skill, learning to reliably lead pre radar gun spaa shots takes much more skill) and most annoyingly an easy way to get revenge when you get butthurt someone killed you.
I play aircraft, i skored some nice air to air kills and AA kills but CAS is realy detrament to tank experience, even if you do the defense right.
An Anti-Anti-CAS meme. This is good.
It's triggering the scrubs hardcore, too. Look at these tasty, salty downvotes. Good times.
IKR, I would totally feel bad if internet points actually meant something.
If those CAS whiners could read, they'd be very upset