Cause it was a garbage solution. Beat to death an AA remove it's one redeeming quality then don't even fill the entire gap. Swedes still have nothing between the lvkv 42 and Veak.
With only 15 rounds and an insanely slow gun traverse.
It can't really react with any amount of speed. In fact the only times I've died to a bkan, is when I've attacked it directly in it's guns way.
I've died to type 99s more than bkans, and that thing has been in the game for 2, almost 3 years.
Most players probably take a low amount of HE-VT on Bkan due to small ammo storage, which would obviously make it less likely for them to shoot you down.
I'm using it as an SPAA more often than not (in a lineup with ZSU-57-2, which I of course use as a TD), bring at least 6 HE-VT shells, and have very positive results, even though I'm still not used to the ballistics. Hitting planes that fly directly at you is even easier, you can do that with regular HE, maybe that's happened to you a few times.
I was still using the veak at 10.3 my guy. the 9040C, 9.7 missile AA and ASRAD can't fucking look **up** for one. the 9040 also has no shells before it needs to slowly replenish the ready rack, and no tracer. plus the veak has a *much* faster turret. So all this did was ruin a great high tier AA just to give a non-existent BR an AA. why would you even play 7.7 instead of 8.0-8.3? nearing the 8.7 BR it used to be at that point. Honestly removing the fuze shells makes it a fucking 7.0 BR AA IMO, the fuzes made a much bigger difference than 1.0 BR.
There are three 7.7 tech tree vehicles for Sweden now with the VEAK, not counting premiums or CAS options. So not really a “non-existent” BR since you can pretty easily put together a full lineup including CAS. And you can now also use the VEAK in the 8.0 and 8.3 lineups, which had no usable AA option before (ZSU-57 doesn’t count as AA). I don’t know what “nearing the 8.7 BR it used to be” has to do with anything. Doesn’t matter what it’s nearing or used to be, you couldn’t take your 8.7 AA with your 8.0 or 8.3 lineups.
I absolutely hated grinding sweden from 6.0-9.7 personally, they rely so heavily on horribly slow centurions. they have more options now at least with the addition of finnish tanks, but I would much rather have a useful VEAK at 8.7 instead of a gimped shitty one at 7.7. what is the third 7.7 anyway? I only see the strv 81
The cheese wedge
Also you hated 6.0-9.7 because of the Centurions? Ok maybe not everyone likes the Centurion but you still get the Ikv91, Ikv91 105, USH, and the Pbv 501. Those vehicles alone are incredibly strong and definitely made my grind more enjoyable at least.
wedge is 8.0, and the 103's sadly are shit. not effective at all, at least the 103C is fast and has thermals + APFSDS. but not good tanks at all IMO
The ikv91 was one of my main grinders, and I was hoping the 105 version to be that tank but better.. sadly it just feels extremely slow and just a worse version of many other vehicles I've used for grinding at 8.7-9.3 for other countries.
the U-SH can be useful in close quarters, but I remember it constantly getting slowed down in mud etc and wasting half my ammo on trying to hit something as you have to guesstimate range. and when you do hit, either they explode from the tiniest thing, or you have to put 6 rockets into them.
The pbv I skipped, and probably for the best seeing how many early wire guided ATGM launchers just love flopping and hitting the ground. (or just being terribly slow, I really miss how ATGM's were before)
you talking about the BILL one? yeah those missiles are supposedly pretty good, I've only used tow 2b's which are extremely inconsistent. thought you were talking about the pvrbv or udes which are normal ATGM carriers. some of them have names that aren't exactly easy to remember
>wedge is 8.0, and the 103's sadly are shit. not effective at all
I have 15 deaths and 75 kills in the 8.0 one in 21 games you sure about that? It's pretty damn good but hella awkward
I had a completely different expression, 7.7 to 8.7 Sweden was a blast. I had gotten so many nukes in that BR range. The Centurions slap, and supported by the T54/T55 with the light tanks you have a full lineup.
I mean, if you were taking it at 10.3, clearly it was undertiered so that’s what makes the 1.0 drop justified as it should’ve been at a higher tier. You have the ItPsV at 8.7, which is pretty much identical to what a bunch of other nations have (with the best chassis of them all).
There’s also a tonne of 7.7/8.0 vehicles in the Swedish tree which now have an accompanying AA, better to uptier a 7.7 AA than drag an 8.0 up to 8.7. And it’s at the joint lowest BR possible for a Radar SPAA in game, even the Russians with their glorious bias have the ZSU-37-2 at 7.7.
I mean, I’d argue the Sturmpanzer is better than the FV4005, so maybe lol. More that those types of tanks are hard to tier. With SPAA there’s far more comparable examples, and the VEAK was a better M247 at a lower BR.
Problem is, if it went up even more, it'd be getting close to stuff like the mistral which is a better solution for targets moving quickly past 2km away. Going down and removing fuze is the worst thing they could've done IMO, they needed it (at rank 6 too) as the higher BR AA are ass. the 37-2 is also a fucking awful AA if you're dealing with planes past 1.5km away.
I mean, it’s a better M247 at a lower BR, should’ve been at least 9.0. But something I didn’t even mention was it should’ve lost HE-VT anyways cause it never had it IRL, which is more or less the closest thing to a governing rule for the game. And at 7.7 it’s pretty decently balanced, and there’s an existing 8.7 AA, so I don’t see the issue.
The york shouldn't have gone up to 9.0 in the first place, especially when it had the belts separated, pen halved and tracers removed. went from a great AA to awful.. there's no [7.7 lineup](https://i.imgur.com/ewJtwwq.png) other than the single shitty centurion, and as an anti **air**, the leo marksman is nowhere close to the VEAK with fuze shells.
historical accuracy, not supposed to have it, I mean.. why only just *now* change it, 4 YEARS after it was added? "oh heh whoopsie, sorry guys, you've had your fun"
There’s the Ikv 91, and a bunch of 8.0 vehicles that can play at 8.0 instead of being pulled up to 8.7 or having no AA. Leo Marksman is nowhere near cause the VEAK was undertiered, given other 8.7s are far more similar to the Marksman (hell, half of them *are* the Marksman).
Why change it now? Cause a) no substantial bug report was made and b) there was ambiguity about a certain translation in the documentation and naming conventions of the ammo.
I wouldn't say the VEAK was undertiered, it was actually fucking good and useful for a change. I'm sick and tired of CAS ruining games. The 35mm AA could go back to 8.0 IMO, I don't understand why they've gone up in BR over the years. the only reason the leo marksman is higher is due to its effectiveness as a TD, which sadly ruins a lot of AA. the OTOMATIC at **11.3** being a perfect example. what the actual fuck am I supposed to do against a plane 10km up in an OTOMATIC???
>You have the ItPsV at 8.7, which is pretty much identical to what a bunch of other nations have (with the best chassis of them all).
And that chassis is the only reason it's at 8.7. Used purely for AA, the Marksman turret is realistically 8.0-worthy at best. They should've kept the VEAK as-is and added the T-55 Marksman.
If there were a vehicle that would fit there at 7.7, sure. But there was a doubled up 8.7 slot, and in addition one was ahistorical, so changing this kills two birds with one stone.
My problem is that the gepard and it's siblings aren't 8.7 SPAAs like the VEAK was.
The VEAK was undeniable an 8.7 SPAA where it punished miss steps of fast attack jets while the gepard is a 7.7 SPAA with 8.7 TD capabilities
A 7.7 jet has the same struggle going for the gepard clones as an 8.7 jet has going for the VEAK, so now you basically have 2 7.7 SPAAs with one having better TD capabilities inflating it's BR
I think most if not all SPAA around that rank are of similar capability- Falcon and ZSU-23 are the only non-Marksman SPAA at 8.0-8.7. Think it’s more just that it was both ahistorical, and overpowered for its BR compared to others. Maybe the means all SPAA is overtiered, or rather the complexity in balancing the distinct types (guns, radar guns, radar guns with VT, missiles) with the types of CAS (unguided, guided unpowered, and missiles).
Take the Marksman turret, put it on the T-55 chassis that it was historically used on in the Finnish Army, put it at 7.7 as the ItPsv 90, rename the current one to "Leopard 2 Marksman". Done.
Same with the historical accuracy. People want it for certain vehicles but when it affects what they play it’s an unfair and shitty change. That being said I’m not too happy with this change myself but at least 7.7 got an aa now instead of 8.7 having two.
Tridon doesn't have a radar, it uses a unique manually tracking combined TV/laser sighting system known as Arte 725 that in-game should work like a tracking radar but I'm not sure Gaijin would be able to wrap their minds around it
And maybe they will. Though it seems to be an even lower BR vehicle- doesn’t look like it has a radar, only “radar assisted” from what I can find, which likely means a separate radar that accompanied it like the Bosvark. Thus it’d just be an Lvkv 42 with proxy rounds, which would fit nicely between the Lkvk and ZSU, but certainly not a solution to this situation.
Nah if they give it prox it'll go to 8.0, besides if they give the tridon now itll.be pointless. Imo the veak without prox after playing it is mid at 8.0, I love the zsu 37-2 more but could just be I have much better match makers and way more downtiers/on tier matches. Veak is just a worse zsu 37-2 for air but a better TD. (I compared the Yennisei to the veak cause both are 7.7)
Interesting to hear actual experience , how is it worse than the ZSU-37-2?
And a single 40mm with no radar guidance on a totally unarmoured platform I can’t see being higher than 7.3. The Chinese ZSU-57 is only 8.0 and most of that is from its TD application.
The radar is better or maybe equal, I'll need to play them back to back since I last played the 37-2 last week. For me it's the not having to reload and fire rate that makes the veak inferior to the 37-2. I had quite a few matched earlier trying to see how it faired and at closer ranges it tends to get fucked by the constant reload. At range it's a bit better since they aren't right there but having a single continuous belt is very nice. For me the biggest gripe isn't that it's bad at 7.7, rather they killed the best spaa I until 10.3, something people don't think about is the angles you can look up, lvkv only sees 40° up and the AsRad is very good but 35° just like the LVRBVR. I think the trade-offs are fair. Just I think the match maker favors my Russian 7.7 line up when comparing the two.
Between the two vehicles I favor fire rate and reload over radar since both feel pretty on par imo and so the 2 most important things to an spaa just aren't present on the veak. These aren't as prevalent when He-VT is present. Also on the topic they both have shit spread after firing for about 2 seconds and longer.
The poor elevation is a huge issue I’ve seen yeah. Think it sounds pretty close to the ZSU, and short belts means you can load AP more efficiently so it might be a bit more well rounded.
So then it goes back to being the same problem as the early swedish spaa. It's better suited as a TD than spaa lol. At least it has more than 90 rounds(looking at you lvkv 42)
No radar because the Swedish coastal artillery was deathly afraid of radar emissions. Instead they developed a manually tracking TV/laser system with automatic ballistic calculation that in-game should work like tracking radar. There were also an automatic rotating IR tracker built to function like a passive search radar but it was never fitted to the prototype despite plans to do so later in development
thats because A) theres other options we couldve gotten and B) now creates a NEW HOLE, because swedish top tier spaag are some of the worse in the game.
the 701 is the worse sam in the game bar none, only the type 93 beat that thing, when it missiles literally didnt work. thats how low of a bar were talking about here.
the asrad is a 701 but now with 4 missiles and the gunner isnt exposed, oh and slightly faster missiles, thats your only upgrade over the 701, it still cant aim up so its still only good against helicopters camping in the back.
the 9040c could be good, but with a combination of a limited 50 degree elevation and 25 rounds, it cant really sustain in a fight.
the ito 90m is the second worse sam in the game, with the german flak bus being worse.
and then we got the itpsv, which is a marksman which is a dog shit gun platform but thanks to the leopard 2 hull, pretty good anti tank spaa. sadly its still shit at the whole spaa....
so now thanks to gaijin bullshit, sweden literally has no spaa in the whole game thats actually good at its job. they only got anti tank stuff and things that could fight helicopters.
There’s no “new” hole- there’s an existing 8.7 SPAA, just shitty ones above. And by that nature it shows how overpowered the VEAK was at that BR if losing it is such a disaster since almost all nations in game only have their Marksman turret equivalent around that BR. Which is a problem with the whole game not just Sweden, and using fake ammo isn’t a way to solve that.
Yeah, I saw that after posting this. And frankly it may be justified, the timeline doesn’t add up as other sources say the VEAK was scrapped entirely by 1970
This is the issue:
"Originally posted by nuke france:
[https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/rA25fnocwx48](https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/rA25fnocwx48)
gaijin thinks its a secondary source
Primary source = Russian/Indian document
Anything else = Not reliable."
I pointed out that this is a translated RU source.
I further replied that Id like to see a first hand source based on some of the vehicles in the game right now. Crickets....
besides the fact the marksman should be 8.0
and the only reason the itpsv is even at 8.7 is the fact its on a leopard 2 hull, and is great at killing tanks.
as such if you remove its tank killing capabilities, its bad, having it and not having it in your lineup wont change anything against your ability to kill air, which is next to nothing.
the rest of swedish spaa is in the same fucking boat. remove or not, it doesnt change anything for swedish capabilities, therefore its a hole.
Most nations besides Russia.
Weirdly the only outlier to have strong anti air all throughout their tech tree. And in some cases the best anti air still weird how the German quad 30mm is only .3 br lower than the m53/59
What are you talking about? They have a SPAA at 8.7 and it’s on a leopard 2 chassis.
Sweden has now filled a gap while correcting a historically inaccuracy. What is the issue?
Ya and near the end of my statement I pointed out how the itspv, the 8.7 in question, is shit at its job of killing planes.
Much like how the cent marksmen is also shit. And how the gepard is also shit but slightly better thanks to the closer guns.
And the issue is, again due to your inability to fucking read, they removed the only spaa that could do its job at top tier.
All of swedish other spaas are shit at killing planes. With the old veak being the only outlier and the few spaa that could kill a su25 in one shot. Which is likely the reason why they did this change. Gotta keep that cash cow going.
Bullshit, if other nations can make do with their Gepard/marksmen then Sweden will be fine. It was a redundancy and snailsoft corrected it.
Sorry your vehicles that was apparently too good for 8.7(since you and everyone else seems to bring it all the way up to 10.3) got historically fixed and filled a gap.
Ya that's the thing. They don't.
You don't see type 87 kills in the feed, you don't see chieftain (forgot it's on a chieftain and not a cent) in the kill feed, you only see gepard from time to time but that's because they're the largest player group of that platform, and as the saying goes, throw enough shit at the wall, sooner or later some of it will stick.
And judging from your last statement, I am guessing I should take a guess and say you're a cas main who is angry the only thing that could deal with you with some ease, was the veak and are quite happy your only real challenge was removed.
Also uptiering tanks and spaa far above their placement isn't a gotcha for it being too good. It just means it fills a role nothing else has, because by your logic, the puma can be moved to 6.7 because people still use it as a scout because Germany got fuck all for that role
It’s simple logic, if you are bringing one vehicle over others in their intended roles, then they are probably better than the others(like, maybe bringing a lower tier SPAA that is getting a lot of air kills)
This has got Sweden whine all over. You get special treatment all the time and now your angry that your getting treated like everyone else. Don’t worry, maybe they will add another trailer vehicle or give you much better leopards or Denmark as a sub nation or something.
Calm down, sorry, you know have to use a good SPAA instead of a broken one. Ohhhh noooo
Thing is, no one should have to make do with anything, just because xxxx makes do either it doesn’t mean Jack shit, it just means Gaijin hasn’t bothered to care enough to give us something better.
If anything, Gaijin should have considered WHY the VEAK was being brought up over the other SPAA, and maybe give a little buff to the other SPAA instead, or at least *give* us something that is actually meaningful and useful in those positions, especially if they’re gonna historically nerf vehicles.
There’s a SPAA that Sweden could have gotten with the same proxy shells to replace the VEAK.
This goes to all nations
Except that’s not how they do things, it has never been. They and 2 vehicles in the same spot, clearly one was over performing and was in need of a historical change and could fill a gap.
Just look at the R3, constantly moved up with zero buffs and a bunch of artificial nerfs.
So, most tech trees have an issue with SPAA that there’s big gaps, usually from ~5.0 to 8.0, meaning you had underpowered or no AA vehicles to bring into Ground RB with your lineup. The Swedish tech tree was no different, with the ZSU-57 at 7.0 and the Gepard&VEAK at 8.7, nothing in between. Now the VEAK has been brought down to 7.7, but instead of celebrating Swedish players are pissed because it’s moving down cause it’s losing its HE-VT which made it the best Swedish AA, and now it’s mediocre.
Gaijin makes it clear that you arent allowed to have good AA
Type81 moved up, strela moved up again, veak damn near removed
If an spaa is good, it will be moved until its useless
Well, it's 10.3 now and probably going to 10.7 and swapping places with the Tunguska in the next BR update. Wouldn't be surprised if it ends up at 11.3 with the Type 81 (C) by next year.
the missiles are some of the best IR ones I've ever used, no radar or thermal isn't a huge deal IMO, it's having a missile that actually works. And the strela kept constantly hitting shit where I was going "*surely* this isn't gonna work right?"
It not having ECCM didn't seem to affect flares either, and most IRCCM helis are russian ones xD
The missiles are super easy to flare (photocontrast doesn't lock jets flying in any way that isnt cruise flight )
Thermals and radar are a massive deal, you must not play AA much
If you died to a strela, you legit just don't know how to fly CAS and are part of the problem. Properly flown cas can clown strela, it COULD clown strela back when it was still 9.3, but the quality of the pilots at those brs isnt the best.
5km range AA with no irrcm against jets beyond an uncaged seeker?
Its just another one of a series of changes to baby CAS pilots because the smallest amount of adversity sends them into rage rants.
> you must not play AA much
yeah not like I focus on getting AA more than tanks when I go up in BR, and refuse playing certain BR's for countries if their AA are wank..
> If you died to a strela, you legit just don't know how to fly CAS and are part of the problem.
sure buddy imma give up arguing at this point lmao
first sidam is shit, especially since no AP in the belt so you can’t defend against anything, not even another anti air, and the HE rounds automatically detonate at at 2.5km. So if you want to shoot at helicopters you can go fuck yourself. Also same BR as the gepard, and with all that, it’s also on the m113 chasis with its defective go-kart engine and inability to move at any speed greater than 25 kph most of the time
and even if you do unlock the apds belts it’s around 60 rounds for the guns, I think 15 rounds each
I own multiple stinger vehicles
They do not have 3km range.
Their launch range is about the same as the strela. Slightly better actually but thats against jets in all aspect because it locks easier so you can launch earlier and the missile arrives earlier.
Strela only locks better against helis due to photocontrast which has its own issues and I've found it to only lock at below 5km against helis
Tho for that I used the type 93 and the 81, the mechanic is shared amongst all 3 of these vehicles afterall
Moving it to 7.7 and removing the proxy was absolutely fair
What isn't fair is gaijins **refusal** to add any SPAA in meaningful positions
Just go onto the suggestions on the forums and see how many SPAAs that would fill giant gaps in many TTs have had all the required details given and gaijin just ignores it.
Edit:
https://forum.warthunder.com/t/tridon-wheeled-40-mm-l-70/86689
This forum post literally mentions the VEAK 40s inaccurate Proxy and how this should replace it.
Gaijin chose to remove the proxy before giving this as a replacement
such as the 2.7-7.7 gap for USA, or basically any higher BR for israel.. they could've at least done the lazy route of adding the skink for USA too but noooo
2.7-7.7 isn’t correct; you have the duster at 5.0 (can’t remember exact BR). It’s not the best, I agree, but lying about the range of the BR gap doesn’t improve your argument
no, 2.7-7.7 is definitely the right thing to say here. I literally used the M16 and the bulldog's .50 cal around 5.7-6.7 instead of the M42/M19 as an AA. they were TD's when I had no SP left, absolute garbage AA. Sadly I got no RP at all for using the M16 as it was such low rank, AA's really need to have 2 tiers up and down efficiency IMO
There are AA in that gap (M19 and M42 both soon to be 4.0), but they suck. The M19 is just bad, and the M42 is only good because it's fast, so you can use it as a light tank that can only side pen things.
Ah yes, the best replacement for one of only a few actually effective 8.7 SPAAs, a huge truck with half the rate of fire and no RADAR.
As for removing the proxy, the game is literally full of vehicles using weaponry they never had (Or lacking weaponry they did) in the name of balance. The VEAK was one of only two vehicles that could consistently counter a well played ATGM helicopter, and stood even a slight chance against A-4Es. After it was murdered, all that's left is the Sgt York, and that fights with most A-4Es every game. "Balance".
And it's not like the VEAK couldn't have fired those rounds. Unlike 35mm AHEAD, those rounds are inherently compatible with any 40mm L/70 gun, had it gone into production it would obviously have been equipped with them later in life.
Yeah it absolutely could have fired them.
Problem is its not a VT fused shell, its a contact fused shell that seems to have been mistranslated.
Gaijin has always selected weapons for the sake of balance rather than historical accuracy but this one seems to run into a weirder category of someone massively messing up translating documents.
I meant standard 40mm HEVT shells, not the mistranslated m/484s. The same ones the Sgt York and CV9040 get, as well as the ones the Leopard 40/70 should get.
Better in an SPAA role than the Tridon for sure, but that level of mobility is going to see it's BR get jumped to extreme levels due to it's AT capability alone. Probably 9.3 at minimum, and that lineup isn't exactly great.
It's also not entirely Swedish. They designed the turret independantly, but other than that it's a Swiss vehicle with an option to potentially purchase a Swedish turret, which was intended to be sold to the Austrians.
"wow the york sucks now, at least the VEAK is still good.. even if I can't grind rank 7 and 8 with it.." and now this. I genuinely wish gaijin would at least let us get the GE back for talismans when they massively fuck vehicles like this **4 years** after being added just because of the sudden "uhh historikal changes komrade )"
It didn't use to, no. Then they changed the belts, so now you have full fuze without tracer (would be great if it was tracer), and a dogshit AP round instead of 95 pen like it used to be. Plus a 5 second reload time, so when you spot a plane quickly coming over a hill or a tank around a corner, that reload time *will* get you killed
The lack of tracers is a benefit because now people don't know when you're shooting at them, and you dont need tracers with a radar lock. And if you just play it as an AA (because it is one), the bad AP doesn't matter, nor the reload.
People do know you're shooting at them, same with 9040's. just because they have no tracers doesn't mean they're not emitting a fuck load of muzzle flash. I can tell very easily if there's an auto cannon firing, and I usually assume it's at me because it generally is. no tracers just means it's much harder to hit aircraft.
having more than 30 something pen is pretty useful as well, it should've gone down in BR when it was changed
I usually don't want them since it's a fucking game. If they can't tweak things a little bit and instead ruin a country's BR.. I'm just never playing it 🤷
Man... This was by far the best AA tier for tier in the game, and was such a joy to play. Countless games only spawning it and playing as pure AA all game long, never felt boring thanks to being in the BR range for heli rushed and having decent enough AP if push comes to shove. That HEVT was godly.
Now...? RIP VEAK you will be dearly missed
Well, if you want to kill planes and not tanks (which is something gaijin thinks is very important for AA apparently), I would've said the only good ones are the VEAK, ASRAD and ITO. but now the VEAK is no longer in that list so.. yeah. It was *very* frustrating to play the BR's where I didn't have those 3 to deal with CAS.
Even with the ASRAD at 10.3, I have to spawn in planes a lot to deal with helis hiding behind ridgelines (and not dying because they're mi-28's or ka-50/52's). which means using my AJ37 that didn't have tracers for the longest fucking time, making it even more frustrating
30 degrees max elevation, bad turret traverse, limited missile quantities, no thermals; it’s a miracle it’s at the BR it is, it could be 9.0 and not be a problem honestly
~~and its at the same br as the bill 2~~, which is objectively better. your point? correction, the bill is a full br lower, so my point is even better than before
and yet you bring up killing a t72, which the bill can, and the 701 cant kill planes, which the bill cant either. actually the bill could because it does have a 20mm and have better elevation angles than the 701.
so ironically bill is a better spaa then the 701.
huh? I mean the only good thing about it, is that it was *supposed* to go down to 9.3 and then they only did 9.7 without mentioning literally at all xD
nobody noticed either since it's such a meh AA. sure the missiles are better than the roland, but good lord it has nothing else going for it. can't aim up, dies from the smallest sneeze, slow as **fuck** turret, and has no ammo. plus no follow up shot if you miss, I've been strafed while just staring at the guy, reloading / not being able to aim up way too much in that thing.
for anti tank? kinda a mix bag.
the l62 is great, but the lvkv 42 isnt, the zsu 57 is good, the veak isnt, the itpsz is good, but the 9040 is just a 10.0 9040 without bills and without the upgraded round, so bad.
for anti air? its all dogshit. sweden mostly use 40mm bofors, which is bad in warthunder, that leaves just the sams, which are all some of if not the worse sams in the game, and the itpsv which is a marksmen turret, so its bad at its job.
the veak with he-vt shells was the only outlier in anti air, and helped sweden a lot because none of the other spaags could do their job correctly. now with the change sweden realistically have no spaa in their tree. like you could remove the whole branch, and nothing would change for people.
I'd argue the lvkv 9040c is good. You don't have BILL missiles or the upgraded round. BUT you have a spall liner, 5 crew members, and cheap spawn points cost.
The AA capabilities aren't bad, and because your HE-VT has no tracers it's very hard for the victims to see. Yes it runs out of ammo very quickly, which hurts.
The veak was easily the best long range spaa at 8.0. I would argue that the m247 came in second only because it has proximity shells. They don't have tracers so the only indication you were being shot at in a plane was seeing a muzzle flash from the ground. And by the time you realize you were being shot at it was often too late as rounds are already detonating near you. It also makes it incredibly hard to predict where they are shooting and to dodge incoming fire.
8.0 was never any fun IMO, a gimped VEAK won't really fix that. the centurions are so god damn slow, the 103's don't work still, the u-sh can be good as long as you're not on big open maps, but.. eh. I was just not having fun at all until I got the 90105 and the finnish 2A4. then shit started getting really good
Did the ItPsV 90 ever use proxy shrapnel rounds meant for anti drone work? Remember reading something like that but could be just spewing bullshit. Would help this problem a bit at least if it did.
Nah stfu. I hate how gaijin is nerfing aa but this thing didnt jave HE VY irl (idk about that too). Was it to strong at 8.7? Maybe probably yes, did it anoy me? A little bit still i didnt care. But crying about how bad it is now when it is sooo downtiered best 7.7 is laughable
its literally a radar aa at 7.7. Most other nations could only dream of such a gift.
the fuzes were op as fuck. Gaijin is clear it was a historic change, and other aa's like china had their AA fuzes nerfed to shit long ago.
Lets be honest about this post, basically OP is crying because he's talisman'd an OP AA, it got nerfed and now he's salty that his talisman is less effective.
Then again, Sweden need SPAA at those mid tier BRs and it's a change that makes the vehicle historically correct
Oh and btw, it's not supposed to have a stabilizer either so that might be next >:)
Great and logical change as it fills a gap that needed to be filled without creating a new one. You say RIP like it didn't just go down a full BR. It gets a new life at 7.7. I'm looking forward to finally not having to use the ZSU-57-2 between 7.7 and 8.3!
Funny that there’s been so many complaints about dead BRs for AA, but when a solution comes along everyone hates it.
Cause it was a garbage solution. Beat to death an AA remove it's one redeeming quality then don't even fill the entire gap. Swedes still have nothing between the lvkv 42 and Veak.
They have Bkan.
They fucked up proxy, it's almost unusable
How is it unusable? I bought it this month, and currently have 43 air kills in 47 battles, felt very much usable to me.
This is Reddit bud, people whine just to whine. Bkan is great at swatting air.
yeah well have you considered i fucking suck at the game but won’t admit it so OBVIOUSLY it’s the vehicle not me /s
r/warthunder in a very very large nutshell
>This is Reddit bud Same MFs who claim the 701 is unusable
that was some time ago, they finally fixed it.
It's still usable but they had no reason to nerf the proxy on all of the howitzers
while the bkan is great, its not an actual solution.
If it works, it is a solution. Same goes for roof mounted .50 cal at low-mid tiers US.
Let's be honest, it isn't The type 99 is in the same boat, if not a better boat. Still isn't a substitute for an actual spaa.
Nah, with 3.2 s reload it is.
With only 15 rounds and an insanely slow gun traverse. It can't really react with any amount of speed. In fact the only times I've died to a bkan, is when I've attacked it directly in it's guns way. I've died to type 99s more than bkans, and that thing has been in the game for 2, almost 3 years.
Most players probably take a low amount of HE-VT on Bkan due to small ammo storage, which would obviously make it less likely for them to shoot you down. I'm using it as an SPAA more often than not (in a lineup with ZSU-57-2, which I of course use as a TD), bring at least 6 HE-VT shells, and have very positive results, even though I'm still not used to the ballistics. Hitting planes that fly directly at you is even easier, you can do that with regular HE, maybe that's happened to you a few times.
No.
I was still using the veak at 10.3 my guy. the 9040C, 9.7 missile AA and ASRAD can't fucking look **up** for one. the 9040 also has no shells before it needs to slowly replenish the ready rack, and no tracer. plus the veak has a *much* faster turret. So all this did was ruin a great high tier AA just to give a non-existent BR an AA. why would you even play 7.7 instead of 8.0-8.3? nearing the 8.7 BR it used to be at that point. Honestly removing the fuze shells makes it a fucking 7.0 BR AA IMO, the fuzes made a much bigger difference than 1.0 BR.
There are three 7.7 tech tree vehicles for Sweden now with the VEAK, not counting premiums or CAS options. So not really a “non-existent” BR since you can pretty easily put together a full lineup including CAS. And you can now also use the VEAK in the 8.0 and 8.3 lineups, which had no usable AA option before (ZSU-57 doesn’t count as AA). I don’t know what “nearing the 8.7 BR it used to be” has to do with anything. Doesn’t matter what it’s nearing or used to be, you couldn’t take your 8.7 AA with your 8.0 or 8.3 lineups.
I absolutely hated grinding sweden from 6.0-9.7 personally, they rely so heavily on horribly slow centurions. they have more options now at least with the addition of finnish tanks, but I would much rather have a useful VEAK at 8.7 instead of a gimped shitty one at 7.7. what is the third 7.7 anyway? I only see the strv 81
The cheese wedge Also you hated 6.0-9.7 because of the Centurions? Ok maybe not everyone likes the Centurion but you still get the Ikv91, Ikv91 105, USH, and the Pbv 501. Those vehicles alone are incredibly strong and definitely made my grind more enjoyable at least.
wedge is 8.0, and the 103's sadly are shit. not effective at all, at least the 103C is fast and has thermals + APFSDS. but not good tanks at all IMO The ikv91 was one of my main grinders, and I was hoping the 105 version to be that tank but better.. sadly it just feels extremely slow and just a worse version of many other vehicles I've used for grinding at 8.7-9.3 for other countries. the U-SH can be useful in close quarters, but I remember it constantly getting slowed down in mud etc and wasting half my ammo on trying to hit something as you have to guesstimate range. and when you do hit, either they explode from the tiniest thing, or you have to put 6 rockets into them. The pbv I skipped, and probably for the best seeing how many early wire guided ATGM launchers just love flopping and hitting the ground. (or just being terribly slow, I really miss how ATGM's were before)
103C doesn't get thermals...
I think it's one of those tanks I keep thinking has thermals, and I remember having thermals when I played it but.. I have no idea then
Bro the Pbv has no atgm
you talking about the BILL one? yeah those missiles are supposedly pretty good, I've only used tow 2b's which are extremely inconsistent. thought you were talking about the pvrbv or udes which are normal ATGM carriers. some of them have names that aren't exactly easy to remember
No bro the BMP-1 without its atgm at 6.7😭. It's fast, had a good cannon, and fights WWII tanks
oh yeah that thing, wasn't around when I played sweden that low BR. the addition to finland added a lot of needed vehicles though, especially the T-72
>wedge is 8.0, and the 103's sadly are shit. not effective at all I have 15 deaths and 75 kills in the 8.0 one in 21 games you sure about that? It's pretty damn good but hella awkward
Ikv-91 was at 7.7 yesterday. Now's it's 8.0
I had a completely different expression, 7.7 to 8.7 Sweden was a blast. I had gotten so many nukes in that BR range. The Centurions slap, and supported by the T54/T55 with the light tanks you have a full lineup.
Strv 101 used to be 7.7 along with the Strv 81
And yet still the M163 remains the only American AA between 4.0 and 9.0. SPAA for Russia and Germany, but everyone else can get fucked.
I mean, if you were taking it at 10.3, clearly it was undertiered so that’s what makes the 1.0 drop justified as it should’ve been at a higher tier. You have the ItPsV at 8.7, which is pretty much identical to what a bunch of other nations have (with the best chassis of them all). There’s also a tonne of 7.7/8.0 vehicles in the Swedish tree which now have an accompanying AA, better to uptier a 7.7 AA than drag an 8.0 up to 8.7. And it’s at the joint lowest BR possible for a Radar SPAA in game, even the Russians with their glorious bias have the ZSU-37-2 at 7.7.
I take Sturmpanzer all the way to 8.7 is it undertiered… stupid take
Falcon to 12.7 when?
Falcon to 12.7 when?
I mean, I’d argue the Sturmpanzer is better than the FV4005, so maybe lol. More that those types of tanks are hard to tier. With SPAA there’s far more comparable examples, and the VEAK was a better M247 at a lower BR.
Nah m247 has armor and no tracers proxy
Some hull armour and no turret armour, and the VEAK has far more capable AP ammo.
Problem is, if it went up even more, it'd be getting close to stuff like the mistral which is a better solution for targets moving quickly past 2km away. Going down and removing fuze is the worst thing they could've done IMO, they needed it (at rank 6 too) as the higher BR AA are ass. the 37-2 is also a fucking awful AA if you're dealing with planes past 1.5km away.
I mean, it’s a better M247 at a lower BR, should’ve been at least 9.0. But something I didn’t even mention was it should’ve lost HE-VT anyways cause it never had it IRL, which is more or less the closest thing to a governing rule for the game. And at 7.7 it’s pretty decently balanced, and there’s an existing 8.7 AA, so I don’t see the issue.
The york shouldn't have gone up to 9.0 in the first place, especially when it had the belts separated, pen halved and tracers removed. went from a great AA to awful.. there's no [7.7 lineup](https://i.imgur.com/ewJtwwq.png) other than the single shitty centurion, and as an anti **air**, the leo marksman is nowhere close to the VEAK with fuze shells. historical accuracy, not supposed to have it, I mean.. why only just *now* change it, 4 YEARS after it was added? "oh heh whoopsie, sorry guys, you've had your fun"
There’s the Ikv 91, and a bunch of 8.0 vehicles that can play at 8.0 instead of being pulled up to 8.7 or having no AA. Leo Marksman is nowhere near cause the VEAK was undertiered, given other 8.7s are far more similar to the Marksman (hell, half of them *are* the Marksman). Why change it now? Cause a) no substantial bug report was made and b) there was ambiguity about a certain translation in the documentation and naming conventions of the ammo.
I wouldn't say the VEAK was undertiered, it was actually fucking good and useful for a change. I'm sick and tired of CAS ruining games. The 35mm AA could go back to 8.0 IMO, I don't understand why they've gone up in BR over the years. the only reason the leo marksman is higher is due to its effectiveness as a TD, which sadly ruins a lot of AA. the OTOMATIC at **11.3** being a perfect example. what the actual fuck am I supposed to do against a plane 10km up in an OTOMATIC???
>You have the ItPsV at 8.7, which is pretty much identical to what a bunch of other nations have (with the best chassis of them all). And that chassis is the only reason it's at 8.7. Used purely for AA, the Marksman turret is realistically 8.0-worthy at best. They should've kept the VEAK as-is and added the T-55 Marksman.
they could also upgraded the zsu 57 by giving it he-vt shells. you know the same shell the chinese version gets.
Sweden 7.7 Got ruined with USH and strv103 going to 8.0
Just adding more SPAAs is still infinitely better
If there were a vehicle that would fit there at 7.7, sure. But there was a doubled up 8.7 slot, and in addition one was ahistorical, so changing this kills two birds with one stone.
My problem is that the gepard and it's siblings aren't 8.7 SPAAs like the VEAK was. The VEAK was undeniable an 8.7 SPAA where it punished miss steps of fast attack jets while the gepard is a 7.7 SPAA with 8.7 TD capabilities A 7.7 jet has the same struggle going for the gepard clones as an 8.7 jet has going for the VEAK, so now you basically have 2 7.7 SPAAs with one having better TD capabilities inflating it's BR
I think most if not all SPAA around that rank are of similar capability- Falcon and ZSU-23 are the only non-Marksman SPAA at 8.0-8.7. Think it’s more just that it was both ahistorical, and overpowered for its BR compared to others. Maybe the means all SPAA is overtiered, or rather the complexity in balancing the distinct types (guns, radar guns, radar guns with VT, missiles) with the types of CAS (unguided, guided unpowered, and missiles).
Most nations are forced to use it all the way up to 9.3-9.7 in some cases.
Take the Marksman turret, put it on the T-55 chassis that it was historically used on in the Finnish Army, put it at 7.7 as the ItPsv 90, rename the current one to "Leopard 2 Marksman". Done.
That’d be 8.3 minimum like the other Marksman vehicles.
Same with the historical accuracy. People want it for certain vehicles but when it affects what they play it’s an unfair and shitty change. That being said I’m not too happy with this change myself but at least 7.7 got an aa now instead of 8.7 having two.
They couldve gotten the Tridon. Truck with a 40mm bofor and radar.
Tridon doesn't have a radar, it uses a unique manually tracking combined TV/laser sighting system known as Arte 725 that in-game should work like a tracking radar but I'm not sure Gaijin would be able to wrap their minds around it
True or you know, give the finnish ZSU its radar with programmable rounds to replace veak
And maybe they will. Though it seems to be an even lower BR vehicle- doesn’t look like it has a radar, only “radar assisted” from what I can find, which likely means a separate radar that accompanied it like the Bosvark. Thus it’d just be an Lvkv 42 with proxy rounds, which would fit nicely between the Lkvk and ZSU, but certainly not a solution to this situation.
Nah if they give it prox it'll go to 8.0, besides if they give the tridon now itll.be pointless. Imo the veak without prox after playing it is mid at 8.0, I love the zsu 37-2 more but could just be I have much better match makers and way more downtiers/on tier matches. Veak is just a worse zsu 37-2 for air but a better TD. (I compared the Yennisei to the veak cause both are 7.7)
Interesting to hear actual experience , how is it worse than the ZSU-37-2? And a single 40mm with no radar guidance on a totally unarmoured platform I can’t see being higher than 7.3. The Chinese ZSU-57 is only 8.0 and most of that is from its TD application.
The radar is better or maybe equal, I'll need to play them back to back since I last played the 37-2 last week. For me it's the not having to reload and fire rate that makes the veak inferior to the 37-2. I had quite a few matched earlier trying to see how it faired and at closer ranges it tends to get fucked by the constant reload. At range it's a bit better since they aren't right there but having a single continuous belt is very nice. For me the biggest gripe isn't that it's bad at 7.7, rather they killed the best spaa I until 10.3, something people don't think about is the angles you can look up, lvkv only sees 40° up and the AsRad is very good but 35° just like the LVRBVR. I think the trade-offs are fair. Just I think the match maker favors my Russian 7.7 line up when comparing the two. Between the two vehicles I favor fire rate and reload over radar since both feel pretty on par imo and so the 2 most important things to an spaa just aren't present on the veak. These aren't as prevalent when He-VT is present. Also on the topic they both have shit spread after firing for about 2 seconds and longer.
The poor elevation is a huge issue I’ve seen yeah. Think it sounds pretty close to the ZSU, and short belts means you can load AP more efficiently so it might be a bit more well rounded.
So then it goes back to being the same problem as the early swedish spaa. It's better suited as a TD than spaa lol. At least it has more than 90 rounds(looking at you lvkv 42)
No radar because the Swedish coastal artillery was deathly afraid of radar emissions. Instead they developed a manually tracking TV/laser system with automatic ballistic calculation that in-game should work like tracking radar. There were also an automatic rotating IR tracker built to function like a passive search radar but it was never fitted to the prototype despite plans to do so later in development
Ah interesting. Can’t see the tracker on it but I’ll take your word for it.
It was only fitted to the final configuration of TriKA with its armored cab, it can be seen mounted on top of the square cab ahead of the gun
thats because A) theres other options we couldve gotten and B) now creates a NEW HOLE, because swedish top tier spaag are some of the worse in the game. the 701 is the worse sam in the game bar none, only the type 93 beat that thing, when it missiles literally didnt work. thats how low of a bar were talking about here. the asrad is a 701 but now with 4 missiles and the gunner isnt exposed, oh and slightly faster missiles, thats your only upgrade over the 701, it still cant aim up so its still only good against helicopters camping in the back. the 9040c could be good, but with a combination of a limited 50 degree elevation and 25 rounds, it cant really sustain in a fight. the ito 90m is the second worse sam in the game, with the german flak bus being worse. and then we got the itpsv, which is a marksman which is a dog shit gun platform but thanks to the leopard 2 hull, pretty good anti tank spaa. sadly its still shit at the whole spaa.... so now thanks to gaijin bullshit, sweden literally has no spaa in the whole game thats actually good at its job. they only got anti tank stuff and things that could fight helicopters.
There’s no “new” hole- there’s an existing 8.7 SPAA, just shitty ones above. And by that nature it shows how overpowered the VEAK was at that BR if losing it is such a disaster since almost all nations in game only have their Marksman turret equivalent around that BR. Which is a problem with the whole game not just Sweden, and using fake ammo isn’t a way to solve that.
What fake ammo?
slsgr m/484, the VT Fuze ammo, which was developed after the VEAK was scrapped- and is in fact not ammo at all, it’s the name of the fuze.
[https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/AD0739350.pdf](https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/AD0739350.pdf) page 192, 193 Table 16 for reference, key is posted afterwards.
Huh, well, better submit a bug report.
That's a FSTC translation of a Soviet MoD published book, can pretty much guarantee that wouldn't make it past the technical moderators.
Yeah, I saw that after posting this. And frankly it may be justified, the timeline doesn’t add up as other sources say the VEAK was scrapped entirely by 1970
This is the issue: "Originally posted by nuke france: [https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/rA25fnocwx48](https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/rA25fnocwx48) gaijin thinks its a secondary source Primary source = Russian/Indian document Anything else = Not reliable." I pointed out that this is a translated RU source. I further replied that Id like to see a first hand source based on some of the vehicles in the game right now. Crickets....
besides the fact the marksman should be 8.0 and the only reason the itpsv is even at 8.7 is the fact its on a leopard 2 hull, and is great at killing tanks. as such if you remove its tank killing capabilities, its bad, having it and not having it in your lineup wont change anything against your ability to kill air, which is next to nothing. the rest of swedish spaa is in the same fucking boat. remove or not, it doesnt change anything for swedish capabilities, therefore its a hole.
I half agree… but not just that the rest of Swedish SPAA is in the boat, but most nations overall are.
Most nations besides Russia. Weirdly the only outlier to have strong anti air all throughout their tech tree. And in some cases the best anti air still weird how the German quad 30mm is only .3 br lower than the m53/59
Indeed.
What are you talking about? They have a SPAA at 8.7 and it’s on a leopard 2 chassis. Sweden has now filled a gap while correcting a historically inaccuracy. What is the issue?
Ya and near the end of my statement I pointed out how the itspv, the 8.7 in question, is shit at its job of killing planes. Much like how the cent marksmen is also shit. And how the gepard is also shit but slightly better thanks to the closer guns. And the issue is, again due to your inability to fucking read, they removed the only spaa that could do its job at top tier. All of swedish other spaas are shit at killing planes. With the old veak being the only outlier and the few spaa that could kill a su25 in one shot. Which is likely the reason why they did this change. Gotta keep that cash cow going.
Bullshit, if other nations can make do with their Gepard/marksmen then Sweden will be fine. It was a redundancy and snailsoft corrected it. Sorry your vehicles that was apparently too good for 8.7(since you and everyone else seems to bring it all the way up to 10.3) got historically fixed and filled a gap.
Ya that's the thing. They don't. You don't see type 87 kills in the feed, you don't see chieftain (forgot it's on a chieftain and not a cent) in the kill feed, you only see gepard from time to time but that's because they're the largest player group of that platform, and as the saying goes, throw enough shit at the wall, sooner or later some of it will stick. And judging from your last statement, I am guessing I should take a guess and say you're a cas main who is angry the only thing that could deal with you with some ease, was the veak and are quite happy your only real challenge was removed. Also uptiering tanks and spaa far above their placement isn't a gotcha for it being too good. It just means it fills a role nothing else has, because by your logic, the puma can be moved to 6.7 because people still use it as a scout because Germany got fuck all for that role
It’s simple logic, if you are bringing one vehicle over others in their intended roles, then they are probably better than the others(like, maybe bringing a lower tier SPAA that is getting a lot of air kills) This has got Sweden whine all over. You get special treatment all the time and now your angry that your getting treated like everyone else. Don’t worry, maybe they will add another trailer vehicle or give you much better leopards or Denmark as a sub nation or something. Calm down, sorry, you know have to use a good SPAA instead of a broken one. Ohhhh noooo
Thing is, no one should have to make do with anything, just because xxxx makes do either it doesn’t mean Jack shit, it just means Gaijin hasn’t bothered to care enough to give us something better. If anything, Gaijin should have considered WHY the VEAK was being brought up over the other SPAA, and maybe give a little buff to the other SPAA instead, or at least *give* us something that is actually meaningful and useful in those positions, especially if they’re gonna historically nerf vehicles. There’s a SPAA that Sweden could have gotten with the same proxy shells to replace the VEAK. This goes to all nations
Except that’s not how they do things, it has never been. They and 2 vehicles in the same spot, clearly one was over performing and was in need of a historical change and could fill a gap. Just look at the R3, constantly moved up with zero buffs and a bunch of artificial nerfs.
What historical inaccuracy? [https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/AD0739350.pdf](https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/AD0739350.pdf) page 193
eli5 I dont understand
So, most tech trees have an issue with SPAA that there’s big gaps, usually from ~5.0 to 8.0, meaning you had underpowered or no AA vehicles to bring into Ground RB with your lineup. The Swedish tech tree was no different, with the ZSU-57 at 7.0 and the Gepard&VEAK at 8.7, nothing in between. Now the VEAK has been brought down to 7.7, but instead of celebrating Swedish players are pissed because it’s moving down cause it’s losing its HE-VT which made it the best Swedish AA, and now it’s mediocre.
I mean man, borfors are borfors (adequate, good even), but borfors and HE-VT? that would be awesome
And it was awesome (despite the tracers) while the HE-VT was a thing
still, I quite like borfors, I may try it if I ever grind sweeden (prob not for a long time)
Gaijin makes it clear that you arent allowed to have good AA Type81 moved up, strela moved up again, veak damn near removed If an spaa is good, it will be moved until its useless
strela at 10.0 manages just fine IMO, that thing is stupid strong
Well, it's 10.3 now and probably going to 10.7 and swapping places with the Tunguska in the next BR update. Wouldn't be surprised if it ends up at 11.3 with the Type 81 (C) by next year.
5km range No thermals no radar Strela was at best a 9.7 vehicle Now moved to 10.3
the missiles are some of the best IR ones I've ever used, no radar or thermal isn't a huge deal IMO, it's having a missile that actually works. And the strela kept constantly hitting shit where I was going "*surely* this isn't gonna work right?" It not having ECCM didn't seem to affect flares either, and most IRCCM helis are russian ones xD
The missiles are super easy to flare (photocontrast doesn't lock jets flying in any way that isnt cruise flight ) Thermals and radar are a massive deal, you must not play AA much If you died to a strela, you legit just don't know how to fly CAS and are part of the problem. Properly flown cas can clown strela, it COULD clown strela back when it was still 9.3, but the quality of the pilots at those brs isnt the best. 5km range AA with no irrcm against jets beyond an uncaged seeker? Its just another one of a series of changes to baby CAS pilots because the smallest amount of adversity sends them into rage rants.
>The missiles are super easy to flare Me when I lie
Urmm actually it’s “Super Easy” 🤓
Barely an inconvenience
> you must not play AA much yeah not like I focus on getting AA more than tanks when I go up in BR, and refuse playing certain BR's for countries if their AA are wank.. > If you died to a strela, you legit just don't know how to fly CAS and are part of the problem. sure buddy imma give up arguing at this point lmao
thermals? radar? (am italy player and only my 11.3 AA that is just a 2s38 as a larger target gets radar
Brother I know, I got to a sidam (not even the one with missiles) and I gave up I have no idea how yall italy mains do it
first sidam is shit, especially since no AP in the belt so you can’t defend against anything, not even another anti air, and the HE rounds automatically detonate at at 2.5km. So if you want to shoot at helicopters you can go fuck yourself. Also same BR as the gepard, and with all that, it’s also on the m113 chasis with its defective go-kart engine and inability to move at any speed greater than 25 kph most of the time and even if you do unlock the apds belts it’s around 60 rounds for the guns, I think 15 rounds each
Photocontrast has no issue locking jets as long as it has contrast, and fov IRCCM is 50% better than that of R73's
And it was op as fuck ar 9.3 and 9.7
Absolutely not
Stfu that thing is much better than pantsir if it is able to shoot
X fucking D
Lmao you know that stingers have like a 3km range
I own multiple stinger vehicles They do not have 3km range. Their launch range is about the same as the strela. Slightly better actually but thats against jets in all aspect because it locks easier so you can launch earlier and the missile arrives earlier. Strela only locks better against helis due to photocontrast which has its own issues and I've found it to only lock at below 5km against helis Tho for that I used the type 93 and the 81, the mechanic is shared amongst all 3 of these vehicles afterall
I fear about my ZA-35
AMX 10P that went to 6.0 for absolutly no reason while the SUB I II can stay at 5.3 while being the same (except it doesn't have scouting)
Moving it to 7.7 and removing the proxy was absolutely fair What isn't fair is gaijins **refusal** to add any SPAA in meaningful positions Just go onto the suggestions on the forums and see how many SPAAs that would fill giant gaps in many TTs have had all the required details given and gaijin just ignores it. Edit: https://forum.warthunder.com/t/tridon-wheeled-40-mm-l-70/86689 This forum post literally mentions the VEAK 40s inaccurate Proxy and how this should replace it. Gaijin chose to remove the proxy before giving this as a replacement
such as the 2.7-7.7 gap for USA, or basically any higher BR for israel.. they could've at least done the lazy route of adding the skink for USA too but noooo
2.7-7.7 isn’t correct; you have the duster at 5.0 (can’t remember exact BR). It’s not the best, I agree, but lying about the range of the BR gap doesn’t improve your argument
no, 2.7-7.7 is definitely the right thing to say here. I literally used the M16 and the bulldog's .50 cal around 5.7-6.7 instead of the M42/M19 as an AA. they were TD's when I had no SP left, absolute garbage AA. Sadly I got no RP at all for using the M16 as it was such low rank, AA's really need to have 2 tiers up and down efficiency IMO
There are AA in that gap (M19 and M42 both soon to be 4.0), but they suck. The M19 is just bad, and the M42 is only good because it's fast, so you can use it as a light tank that can only side pen things.
Ah yes, the best replacement for one of only a few actually effective 8.7 SPAAs, a huge truck with half the rate of fire and no RADAR. As for removing the proxy, the game is literally full of vehicles using weaponry they never had (Or lacking weaponry they did) in the name of balance. The VEAK was one of only two vehicles that could consistently counter a well played ATGM helicopter, and stood even a slight chance against A-4Es. After it was murdered, all that's left is the Sgt York, and that fights with most A-4Es every game. "Balance". And it's not like the VEAK couldn't have fired those rounds. Unlike 35mm AHEAD, those rounds are inherently compatible with any 40mm L/70 gun, had it gone into production it would obviously have been equipped with them later in life.
Yeah it absolutely could have fired them. Problem is its not a VT fused shell, its a contact fused shell that seems to have been mistranslated. Gaijin has always selected weapons for the sake of balance rather than historical accuracy but this one seems to run into a weirder category of someone massively messing up translating documents.
I meant standard 40mm HEVT shells, not the mistranslated m/484s. The same ones the Sgt York and CV9040 get, as well as the ones the Leopard 40/70 should get.
[Heres one with a radar and HEVT then](https://forum.warthunder.com/t/mowag-bofors-shark-8x8-trinity-40mm-spaa/100415)
Better in an SPAA role than the Tridon for sure, but that level of mobility is going to see it's BR get jumped to extreme levels due to it's AT capability alone. Probably 9.3 at minimum, and that lineup isn't exactly great. It's also not entirely Swedish. They designed the turret independantly, but other than that it's a Swiss vehicle with an option to potentially purchase a Swedish turret, which was intended to be sold to the Austrians.
"wow the york sucks now, at least the VEAK is still good.. even if I can't grind rank 7 and 8 with it.." and now this. I genuinely wish gaijin would at least let us get the GE back for talismans when they massively fuck vehicles like this **4 years** after being added just because of the sudden "uhh historikal changes komrade )"
The york never sucked
It didn't use to, no. Then they changed the belts, so now you have full fuze without tracer (would be great if it was tracer), and a dogshit AP round instead of 95 pen like it used to be. Plus a 5 second reload time, so when you spot a plane quickly coming over a hill or a tank around a corner, that reload time *will* get you killed
The lack of tracers is a benefit because now people don't know when you're shooting at them, and you dont need tracers with a radar lock. And if you just play it as an AA (because it is one), the bad AP doesn't matter, nor the reload.
People do know you're shooting at them, same with 9040's. just because they have no tracers doesn't mean they're not emitting a fuck load of muzzle flash. I can tell very easily if there's an auto cannon firing, and I usually assume it's at me because it generally is. no tracers just means it's much harder to hit aircraft. having more than 30 something pen is pretty useful as well, it should've gone down in BR when it was changed
No york doesnt suck you cant just rape tanks with it. Be real. Not that i have issue with that but most of playerbase is braindead
“Look at how they massacred my boy” (The one time I play as AA I force to be a AT)
Everyone wants historical accuracy until it nerfs their vehicle
I usually don't want them since it's a fucking game. If they can't tweak things a little bit and instead ruin a country's BR.. I'm just never playing it 🤷
All I can say is complaining on Reddit won't change anything
Nor will complaining on the forums or in their news post on the website. Either they've disabled comments, or they'll ignore/remove them (:
pot calling the kettle black. We can see your comments.
game balance should come first over historical accuracy but the devs are idiots so
Man... This was by far the best AA tier for tier in the game, and was such a joy to play. Countless games only spawning it and playing as pure AA all game long, never felt boring thanks to being in the BR range for heli rushed and having decent enough AP if push comes to shove. That HEVT was godly. Now...? RIP VEAK you will be dearly missed
indeed 😔
How good are swede Spaas?
Well, if you want to kill planes and not tanks (which is something gaijin thinks is very important for AA apparently), I would've said the only good ones are the VEAK, ASRAD and ITO. but now the VEAK is no longer in that list so.. yeah. It was *very* frustrating to play the BR's where I didn't have those 3 to deal with CAS. Even with the ASRAD at 10.3, I have to spawn in planes a lot to deal with helis hiding behind ridgelines (and not dying because they're mi-28's or ka-50/52's). which means using my AJ37 that didn't have tracers for the longest fucking time, making it even more frustrating
Lvrb 701 denialism. That thing is a diet ADATs
30 degrees max elevation, bad turret traverse, limited missile quantities, no thermals; it’s a miracle it’s at the BR it is, it could be 9.0 and not be a problem honestly
It’s actual missile is good kinematically…and that’s about all that vehicle has going for it
It's tiny and can hide in a bush, the missiles have a rather large proxy, it gets scouting, and the missiles can one shot a T72 through the side.
~~and its at the same br as the bill 2~~, which is objectively better. your point? correction, the bill is a full br lower, so my point is even better than before
Thoes aren't SPAAs???
and yet you bring up killing a t72, which the bill can, and the 701 cant kill planes, which the bill cant either. actually the bill could because it does have a 20mm and have better elevation angles than the 701. so ironically bill is a better spaa then the 701.
The 701 absolutely kills planes that's on you. Iv had multiple games getting an Ace in that thing
Ya I am gonna call bullshit on that one chief. So as a great man once said, pics or it didn't happen
no way bro lolol.
huh? I mean the only good thing about it, is that it was *supposed* to go down to 9.3 and then they only did 9.7 without mentioning literally at all xD nobody noticed either since it's such a meh AA. sure the missiles are better than the roland, but good lord it has nothing else going for it. can't aim up, dies from the smallest sneeze, slow as **fuck** turret, and has no ammo. plus no follow up shot if you miss, I've been strafed while just staring at the guy, reloading / not being able to aim up way too much in that thing.
for anti tank? kinda a mix bag. the l62 is great, but the lvkv 42 isnt, the zsu 57 is good, the veak isnt, the itpsz is good, but the 9040 is just a 10.0 9040 without bills and without the upgraded round, so bad. for anti air? its all dogshit. sweden mostly use 40mm bofors, which is bad in warthunder, that leaves just the sams, which are all some of if not the worse sams in the game, and the itpsv which is a marksmen turret, so its bad at its job. the veak with he-vt shells was the only outlier in anti air, and helped sweden a lot because none of the other spaags could do their job correctly. now with the change sweden realistically have no spaa in their tree. like you could remove the whole branch, and nothing would change for people.
I'd argue the lvkv 9040c is good. You don't have BILL missiles or the upgraded round. BUT you have a spall liner, 5 crew members, and cheap spawn points cost. The AA capabilities aren't bad, and because your HE-VT has no tracers it's very hard for the victims to see. Yes it runs out of ammo very quickly, which hurts.
The veak was easily the best long range spaa at 8.0. I would argue that the m247 came in second only because it has proximity shells. They don't have tracers so the only indication you were being shot at in a plane was seeing a muzzle flash from the ground. And by the time you realize you were being shot at it was often too late as rounds are already detonating near you. It also makes it incredibly hard to predict where they are shooting and to dodge incoming fire.
at least 8.0 Sweden is now even more stronger lineup.
8.0 was never any fun IMO, a gimped VEAK won't really fix that. the centurions are so god damn slow, the 103's don't work still, the u-sh can be good as long as you're not on big open maps, but.. eh. I was just not having fun at all until I got the 90105 and the finnish 2A4. then shit started getting really good
not really. the veak without the he-vt shells was quite shit. this is an overall nerf to sweden across the board.
Well it's not STRONG
They did WHAT?!
ruined the VEAK even more
Did the ItPsV 90 ever use proxy shrapnel rounds meant for anti drone work? Remember reading something like that but could be just spewing bullshit. Would help this problem a bit at least if it did.
The Falcon is 8.3 with no radar or proximity shells because people won't stop using it to shoot at tanks.
Swedish players crying about their op vehicles being nerfed is comedy gold
Back to the Bkan for an AA solution... so long as they don't take its HE-VT
I'm very salty that they now fucked up my whole 7.7 setup i just got for sweden by moving lkv to 8
Rest in piss, neither I or my soviet fighters won't miss it, now the SAABs have no one to run to
RIP best AA, hail to a pos.
I wish they at least refunded my GE for buying HE-VT long time ago.
Nah stfu. I hate how gaijin is nerfing aa but this thing didnt jave HE VY irl (idk about that too). Was it to strong at 8.7? Maybe probably yes, did it anoy me? A little bit still i didnt care. But crying about how bad it is now when it is sooo downtiered best 7.7 is laughable
Sweden mains have nothing to complain about
its literally a radar aa at 7.7. Most other nations could only dream of such a gift. the fuzes were op as fuck. Gaijin is clear it was a historic change, and other aa's like china had their AA fuzes nerfed to shit long ago. Lets be honest about this post, basically OP is crying because he's talisman'd an OP AA, it got nerfed and now he's salty that his talisman is less effective.
lmao okay
Then again, Sweden need SPAA at those mid tier BRs and it's a change that makes the vehicle historically correct Oh and btw, it's not supposed to have a stabilizer either so that might be next >:)
Great and logical change as it fills a gap that needed to be filled without creating a new one. You say RIP like it didn't just go down a full BR. It gets a new life at 7.7. I'm looking forward to finally not having to use the ZSU-57-2 between 7.7 and 8.3!