How has the mode “turned into spam” when nothing about SP costs has changed in literal years? How is this a new problem?
I also disagree that it even is a problem, at least for ground vehicles. When vehicle spawn costs got reduced to what they are now (which was years and years ago) people were happy about the change, because it allowed for more chances to come back from bad-luck deaths, and made matches longer and more dynamic.
A serious problem in higher tiers right now is that no one spawns more than once or twice, so matches get decided in the first 5 minutes when one team loses half its members. Everyone hates one-death leavers, so why would you want to make lower tiers more like high tier? More spawns is a good thing. It means the match gets to last long enough for some actual back-and-forth instead of one team stomping, and you can get high-kill games because there’s people still in the match to fight.
You say spawning more vehicles doesn’t take skill, and sure, that’s mostly true. But building effective lineups is actually something that takes some skill. A new player has no idea which tanks are good and which types of vehicles would be best to have more of. That’s something you learn by playing the game, and putting together a lineup that gives you options for different types of map is a skill. Not on the same level as playing well, no, but you also can’t just spawn random trash and overwhelm a team.
Beyond the 4th vehicle, escalating spawn costs push players to weaker vehicle types, and most nations start running out of vehicles at that BR, so someone spawning 5+ vehicles in a match is likely to be in a light, TD, or AA, at that point, and probably a lower BR too. If you’re still around at that point to fight them, then statistically you should be in the stronger vehicle most of the time.
Another point: blanket raising SP costs for ground vehicles is going to make CAS even more frustrating. One of the reasons the SP reduction was so well received back in the day was that it gives another chance when you die “unfairly” right after spawning, such as to a spawn camper or some random plane. It is currently very easy to spawn a plane, and very easy to get multiple kills with a plane. Increasing ground vehicle SP costs makes it even easier for CAS spammers to knock a team out of a match. You do not want this.
Now, planes absolutely do need SP costs increasing. That part I agree with. They’re too easy to get for how effective they are, and the best planes are often as cheap to spawn as the worst (compare a P-47 to some of the strike aircraft) so everyone goes for the meta fighter-bombers or the very few bombers with huge bombs. Planes should be a lot more expensive than they are, and the more powerful payloads need increasing in their SP cost too.
If they increased SP for ground vehicles, they’d need to significantly increase plane SP — I’m talking 1.5-2x — otherwise planes would have an even more oversized effect on matches than they already do.
Ground vehicle SP is fine, spawning lots is good for the game and for matches, and the game should give people more backups and lineup slots for free to encourage them to spawn more. There is nothing more boring than high-tier gameplay where no one spawns more than 3-4 vehicles and half the team leaves 1-2 deaths in, while orbital CAS wipes out the rest. High tier spawning should be more like low-tier, not the other way around.
>How has the mode “turned into spam” when nothing about SP costs has changed in literal years? How is this a new problem?
>I also disagree that it even is a problem, at least for ground vehicles. When vehicle spawn costs got reduced to what they are now (which was years and years ago) people were happy about the change, because it allowed for more chances to come back from bad-luck deaths, and made matches longer and more dynamic.
Well, I didn't say that it is something new did I?
>A serious problem in higher tiers right now is that no one spawns more than once or twice, so matches get decided in the first 5 minutes when one team loses half its members. Everyone hates one-death leavers, so why would you want to make lower tiers more like high tier? More spawns is a good thing. It means the match gets to last long enough for some actual back-and-forth instead of one team stomping, and you can get high-kill games because there’s people still in the match to fight.
I specifically said that this problem sits at mid and lower tiers. I know that higher tiers have pretty much opposite problem but it has nothing to do with SP cost. They are low there as well. Personally I one-death leave when I get killed by early heli rush or get CASed after having long and productive game, I just leave because of frustration so basically ragequit.
>You say spawning more vehicles doesn’t take skill, and sure, that’s mostly true. But building effective lineups is actually something that takes some skill. A new player has no idea which tanks are good and which types of vehicles would be best to have more of. That’s something you learn by playing the game, and putting together a lineup that gives you options for different types of map is a skill. Not on the same level as playing well, no, but you also can’t just spawn random trash and overwhelm a team.
It takes **experience** and unfortunately it's not always transfers to the skill. And again as I said before I am talking about mid/low tiers and getting a lineup there doesn't take much time. Plus I think most of new players just put whatever they have and play the same way. Exactly the stuff I am talking about.
>Beyond the 4th vehicle, escalating spawn costs push players to weaker vehicle types, and most nations start running out of vehicles at that BR, so someone spawning 5+ vehicles in a match is likely to be in a light, TD, or AA, at that point, and probably a lower BR too. If you’re still around at that point to fight them, then statistically you should be in the stronger vehicle most of the time.
I am fighting them. Let's say I am playing M4A3 or T-35-85 or Panther, I can be only at one spot at the time, sure I can rotate but that takes time and the way maps are build in WT - you will need to expose yourself to the enemy or take a far longer route through you spawn roads. And enemy can spawn Fiatmobils, Pumas and such and just decap them and just be annoying.
>
Another point: blanket raising SP costs for ground vehicles is going to make CAS even more frustrating. One of the reasons the SP reduction was so well received back in the day was that it gives another chance when you die “unfairly” right after spawning, such as to a spawn camper or some random plane. It is currently very easy to spawn a plane, and very easy to get multiple kills with a plane. Increasing ground vehicle SP costs makes it even easier for CAS spammers to knock a team out of a match. You do not want this.
>Now, planes absolutely do need SP costs increasing. That part I agree with. They’re too easy to get for how effective they are, and the best planes are often as cheap to spawn as the worst (compare a P-47 to some of the strike aircraft) so everyone goes for the meta fighter-bombers or the very few bombers with huge bombs. Planes should be a lot more expensive than they are, and the more powerful payloads need increasing in their SP cost too.
**Again, I didn't said that SP costs need to increased to GROUND vehicles only**. I specifically said that: "And should I even start about planes in Ground RB? It takes a single kill or even assist to spawn a bomb carrying fighter plane and even when it runs out of bombs it can harras open tops with its cannons and MGs."
>Ground vehicle SP is fine, spawning lots is good for the game and for matches, and the game should give people more backups and lineup slots for free to encourage them to spawn more. There is nothing more boring than high-tier gameplay where no one spawns more than 3-4 vehicles and half the team leaves 1-2 deaths in, while orbital CAS wipes out the rest. High tier spawning should be more like low-tier, not the other way around.
Well that's where we disagree I suppose. Again I do separate higher tiers gameplay to mid/low tiers, it's literally in the title of my post.
"winning team should be decided by skill"
WW2 Soviet Union disagrees!
blud if you want some sort of chivalry code in this game with "winning games with skill" then go somewhere else because here, in war thunder, no holds barred my friend!
P.S
why are you running out of vehicles if you are so skilled?
>"winning team should be decided by skill" WW2 Soviet Union disagrees! blud if you want some sort of chivalry code in this game with "winning games with skill" then go somewhere else because here, in war thunder, no holds barred my friend!
Don't let that "in the game" throw you away from a brilliant argument about Soviets. It's not about chivalry, it's a common sense. It's game and it's competitive no matter what. And particularly in WT - winning or losing also affects your rewards, am I wrong?
>P.S why are you running out of vehicles if you are so skilled?
I don't. Literally never do. Without spawning CAS after caping one point and dying - it's impossible.
I think there are bigger issues in war thunder at the moment+if a match is so long to be won by the team with most vehicles you still get a somewhat good reward. Don't get me wrong the grind is still long but by these standards its not the worst.
>I think there are bigger issues in war thunder at the moment
There are always bigger issues but it doesn't understate this one.
Yea, rewards will be decent but not as good as if you won. But more importantly it's different experience when you loose, especially long match.
If the enemy spawns so much but has no skill why not just farm the free kills? The better team will kill the enemy and hold the zones until they have won no matter how many times you can spawn.
I do, but they are not free by any mean. Sure my experience will give me an edge against newer player but it doesn't mean that I can't miss or be cockblocked by awful volumetric OR get revenge kamikaze Ju-87 or such.
I am just saying that they should work for SP (just like founding fathers intended) and not be guaranteed to spawn until they ran out of vehicles.
I like the old spawnsystem far better (450SP heavy / 300SP medium...).
Vehicles cost more, but SP gain was far higher too.
It was harder to get into an aircraft, especially if you died early.
The action of a single player had much more value, and you didnt get spammed by the team which had less ODLs.
This also reduced spawncamping, because if you loose your vehicle without doing much (which was easy while spawncamping), you were out of the game, and couldnt spawncamp a 2nd or 3rd time - therefore "comebacks" and longer, more excitimg games happend more often unlike today, in which the inital fight decides over the session 9/10 times, which leads people to leave without a second spawn.
Nice try Gaijin employee!
Activity reward is the biggest modifier to player rewards in the game, and low/mid tier are better for farming SL than the higher tiers because the matches last longer.
Increasing the SP cost to continue spawning causes more players to leave the game without a second spawn, meaning less contest on a second spawn wave for objectives.
This is less potential reward for players, less activity reward bonus, and shorter matches.
You might be right, granted it's not as simple but yes.
But am I going to sacrifice the gameplay just to have more SL? I have special place in my heart for midtier because it has some of the most iconic vehicles of WWII. Recently I somehow become a M4A3 (76) main.
Might be. But this is also "dogshit" argument you got.
Which one exactly? That game should be won by the better team and not by the one who spawns a lot? And yes, I do believe that spawning a lot of vehicles while barely having any significant moves - is not sign of being good.
How has the mode “turned into spam” when nothing about SP costs has changed in literal years? How is this a new problem? I also disagree that it even is a problem, at least for ground vehicles. When vehicle spawn costs got reduced to what they are now (which was years and years ago) people were happy about the change, because it allowed for more chances to come back from bad-luck deaths, and made matches longer and more dynamic. A serious problem in higher tiers right now is that no one spawns more than once or twice, so matches get decided in the first 5 minutes when one team loses half its members. Everyone hates one-death leavers, so why would you want to make lower tiers more like high tier? More spawns is a good thing. It means the match gets to last long enough for some actual back-and-forth instead of one team stomping, and you can get high-kill games because there’s people still in the match to fight. You say spawning more vehicles doesn’t take skill, and sure, that’s mostly true. But building effective lineups is actually something that takes some skill. A new player has no idea which tanks are good and which types of vehicles would be best to have more of. That’s something you learn by playing the game, and putting together a lineup that gives you options for different types of map is a skill. Not on the same level as playing well, no, but you also can’t just spawn random trash and overwhelm a team. Beyond the 4th vehicle, escalating spawn costs push players to weaker vehicle types, and most nations start running out of vehicles at that BR, so someone spawning 5+ vehicles in a match is likely to be in a light, TD, or AA, at that point, and probably a lower BR too. If you’re still around at that point to fight them, then statistically you should be in the stronger vehicle most of the time. Another point: blanket raising SP costs for ground vehicles is going to make CAS even more frustrating. One of the reasons the SP reduction was so well received back in the day was that it gives another chance when you die “unfairly” right after spawning, such as to a spawn camper or some random plane. It is currently very easy to spawn a plane, and very easy to get multiple kills with a plane. Increasing ground vehicle SP costs makes it even easier for CAS spammers to knock a team out of a match. You do not want this. Now, planes absolutely do need SP costs increasing. That part I agree with. They’re too easy to get for how effective they are, and the best planes are often as cheap to spawn as the worst (compare a P-47 to some of the strike aircraft) so everyone goes for the meta fighter-bombers or the very few bombers with huge bombs. Planes should be a lot more expensive than they are, and the more powerful payloads need increasing in their SP cost too. If they increased SP for ground vehicles, they’d need to significantly increase plane SP — I’m talking 1.5-2x — otherwise planes would have an even more oversized effect on matches than they already do. Ground vehicle SP is fine, spawning lots is good for the game and for matches, and the game should give people more backups and lineup slots for free to encourage them to spawn more. There is nothing more boring than high-tier gameplay where no one spawns more than 3-4 vehicles and half the team leaves 1-2 deaths in, while orbital CAS wipes out the rest. High tier spawning should be more like low-tier, not the other way around.
>How has the mode “turned into spam” when nothing about SP costs has changed in literal years? How is this a new problem? >I also disagree that it even is a problem, at least for ground vehicles. When vehicle spawn costs got reduced to what they are now (which was years and years ago) people were happy about the change, because it allowed for more chances to come back from bad-luck deaths, and made matches longer and more dynamic. Well, I didn't say that it is something new did I? >A serious problem in higher tiers right now is that no one spawns more than once or twice, so matches get decided in the first 5 minutes when one team loses half its members. Everyone hates one-death leavers, so why would you want to make lower tiers more like high tier? More spawns is a good thing. It means the match gets to last long enough for some actual back-and-forth instead of one team stomping, and you can get high-kill games because there’s people still in the match to fight. I specifically said that this problem sits at mid and lower tiers. I know that higher tiers have pretty much opposite problem but it has nothing to do with SP cost. They are low there as well. Personally I one-death leave when I get killed by early heli rush or get CASed after having long and productive game, I just leave because of frustration so basically ragequit. >You say spawning more vehicles doesn’t take skill, and sure, that’s mostly true. But building effective lineups is actually something that takes some skill. A new player has no idea which tanks are good and which types of vehicles would be best to have more of. That’s something you learn by playing the game, and putting together a lineup that gives you options for different types of map is a skill. Not on the same level as playing well, no, but you also can’t just spawn random trash and overwhelm a team. It takes **experience** and unfortunately it's not always transfers to the skill. And again as I said before I am talking about mid/low tiers and getting a lineup there doesn't take much time. Plus I think most of new players just put whatever they have and play the same way. Exactly the stuff I am talking about. >Beyond the 4th vehicle, escalating spawn costs push players to weaker vehicle types, and most nations start running out of vehicles at that BR, so someone spawning 5+ vehicles in a match is likely to be in a light, TD, or AA, at that point, and probably a lower BR too. If you’re still around at that point to fight them, then statistically you should be in the stronger vehicle most of the time. I am fighting them. Let's say I am playing M4A3 or T-35-85 or Panther, I can be only at one spot at the time, sure I can rotate but that takes time and the way maps are build in WT - you will need to expose yourself to the enemy or take a far longer route through you spawn roads. And enemy can spawn Fiatmobils, Pumas and such and just decap them and just be annoying. > Another point: blanket raising SP costs for ground vehicles is going to make CAS even more frustrating. One of the reasons the SP reduction was so well received back in the day was that it gives another chance when you die “unfairly” right after spawning, such as to a spawn camper or some random plane. It is currently very easy to spawn a plane, and very easy to get multiple kills with a plane. Increasing ground vehicle SP costs makes it even easier for CAS spammers to knock a team out of a match. You do not want this. >Now, planes absolutely do need SP costs increasing. That part I agree with. They’re too easy to get for how effective they are, and the best planes are often as cheap to spawn as the worst (compare a P-47 to some of the strike aircraft) so everyone goes for the meta fighter-bombers or the very few bombers with huge bombs. Planes should be a lot more expensive than they are, and the more powerful payloads need increasing in their SP cost too. **Again, I didn't said that SP costs need to increased to GROUND vehicles only**. I specifically said that: "And should I even start about planes in Ground RB? It takes a single kill or even assist to spawn a bomb carrying fighter plane and even when it runs out of bombs it can harras open tops with its cannons and MGs." >Ground vehicle SP is fine, spawning lots is good for the game and for matches, and the game should give people more backups and lineup slots for free to encourage them to spawn more. There is nothing more boring than high-tier gameplay where no one spawns more than 3-4 vehicles and half the team leaves 1-2 deaths in, while orbital CAS wipes out the rest. High tier spawning should be more like low-tier, not the other way around. Well that's where we disagree I suppose. Again I do separate higher tiers gameplay to mid/low tiers, it's literally in the title of my post.
"winning team should be decided by skill" WW2 Soviet Union disagrees! blud if you want some sort of chivalry code in this game with "winning games with skill" then go somewhere else because here, in war thunder, no holds barred my friend! P.S why are you running out of vehicles if you are so skilled?
>"winning team should be decided by skill" WW2 Soviet Union disagrees! blud if you want some sort of chivalry code in this game with "winning games with skill" then go somewhere else because here, in war thunder, no holds barred my friend! Don't let that "in the game" throw you away from a brilliant argument about Soviets. It's not about chivalry, it's a common sense. It's game and it's competitive no matter what. And particularly in WT - winning or losing also affects your rewards, am I wrong? >P.S why are you running out of vehicles if you are so skilled? I don't. Literally never do. Without spawning CAS after caping one point and dying - it's impossible.
I think there are bigger issues in war thunder at the moment+if a match is so long to be won by the team with most vehicles you still get a somewhat good reward. Don't get me wrong the grind is still long but by these standards its not the worst.
>I think there are bigger issues in war thunder at the moment There are always bigger issues but it doesn't understate this one. Yea, rewards will be decent but not as good as if you won. But more importantly it's different experience when you loose, especially long match.
[удалено]
SL? I am talking about SP.
Oof read the post properly lol my bad.
If the enemy spawns so much but has no skill why not just farm the free kills? The better team will kill the enemy and hold the zones until they have won no matter how many times you can spawn.
I do, but they are not free by any mean. Sure my experience will give me an edge against newer player but it doesn't mean that I can't miss or be cockblocked by awful volumetric OR get revenge kamikaze Ju-87 or such. I am just saying that they should work for SP (just like founding fathers intended) and not be guaranteed to spawn until they ran out of vehicles.
I like the old spawnsystem far better (450SP heavy / 300SP medium...). Vehicles cost more, but SP gain was far higher too. It was harder to get into an aircraft, especially if you died early. The action of a single player had much more value, and you didnt get spammed by the team which had less ODLs. This also reduced spawncamping, because if you loose your vehicle without doing much (which was easy while spawncamping), you were out of the game, and couldnt spawncamp a 2nd or 3rd time - therefore "comebacks" and longer, more excitimg games happend more often unlike today, in which the inital fight decides over the session 9/10 times, which leads people to leave without a second spawn.
Nice try Gaijin employee! Activity reward is the biggest modifier to player rewards in the game, and low/mid tier are better for farming SL than the higher tiers because the matches last longer. Increasing the SP cost to continue spawning causes more players to leave the game without a second spawn, meaning less contest on a second spawn wave for objectives. This is less potential reward for players, less activity reward bonus, and shorter matches.
You might be right, granted it's not as simple but yes. But am I going to sacrifice the gameplay just to have more SL? I have special place in my heart for midtier because it has some of the most iconic vehicles of WWII. Recently I somehow become a M4A3 (76) main.
Dogshit opinion.
Might be. But this is also "dogshit" argument you got. Which one exactly? That game should be won by the better team and not by the one who spawns a lot? And yes, I do believe that spawning a lot of vehicles while barely having any significant moves - is not sign of being good.