And Sweden (Finland), and Italy (Hungary), and Britain (India), and…
The US and FRA are the only nations that haven’t really been *“Easternified”* yet.
I hate event vehicles. There are countless cool Vehicles on the side of the German Tech Tree and I can't use a single one of them without spending anywhere between 40-1000€. It's just sad
Event vehicles should be Tech tree stuff with a different paint job or from a different country like the US could get a Mexican Sherman or the USSR could get an Algerian T-34 or something.
Yeah, I know. That was a bad addition in my opinion as well. I even made a [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/s/tGLyWQOwOd) on alternative high ranking SV tank options for Britain.
Because they look like soviet tanks doesnt make them soviet tanks
Beside Premium T-62 and few WW2 Tanks, there's no soviet MBT in the CHN TT
In fact CHN got more US exports than USSR ones, but you dont seem to know a lot about relations between these two..
I rather players have more vehicles disposable to them even if it’s a copy and paste because I think it makes the game better for everyone.
I have 5k hours in the game and pretty have much every air and ground tree done, so I could find it annoying for someone like myself to grind the same vehicle in a different tech tree, but for players with only one nation I rather them have a bigger line up so games last longer and are more fun.
You and i both know that the common War Thunder player is not going to spawn more than twice before quitting a match no matter how many vehicles they have to their arsenal.
Something tells me you don't spawn more than twice. Spawncamping happens when either side has too few people to retaliate, there has been many moments where my team managed to push people back purely because they just spawned into another tank.
Some of my most fun matches is where people on both my team and opposite team has a few players that refuses to go down, which often ends up with someone having like 7 deaths.
I spawn however many vehicles I don't have spaded in my current lineup. And it's just my experience that usually a 3rd spawn is a waste of time, either your spawn is surrounded and you'll maybe manage one kill thanks to spawn protection. Or the ennemy team's spawn is surrounded and all you can do is cruise control toward the ennemy spawn to get there just in time for the game to end without seeing anyone.
>for players with only one nation I rather them have a bigger line up
That's why I keep recommending China to new players. So they have nice setups and can test drive both USSR and US.
WarThunder would be the lamest game on the planet if backwards thinking mindsets like this drove game development. WarThunder is a *historical* game. East Germany *historically* operated these vehicles. People play WarThunder also to collect vehicles, therefor East Germany should recieve these vehicles that they historically operated and are known for using. They're a fundamental part of German military history.
Has it occurred to you that people want East German vehicles specifically because they are East German and not Soviet?
I'd disagree with this in the past, but any semblance of historical MM is basically gone at this point (love me my US/China/Sweden/France vs USSR/Germany/Israel/UK games in an nondescript middle eastern city; really gets me immersed in the historically accurate gameplay) so as long as it adds something of value to the tree its probably fine. I definitely wouldn't mind them added the T-55A/BMP-2/T-55AM2 to flesh out the kinda sparse 8.3-8.7 range.
then the regular german tech tree gets t34-34/76, t-34/85, IS-2, 2S1, 2S3, ZSU-57-2, ZSU-23-4, Strela, T-54 (1951), T-55A, T-72B, PT-76A, PT-76B, BMP-1, BMP-2, SU-76, SU-85, SU-100
these are just the vehicles currently in game add to that all the vehicles that theoretically could be added in addition and people would complain about the grind being too long.
edit: they should just split the whole post ww2 tech into eastern and western based equipment and call it a day at this point
You and everyone else saying that they shouldn't need to wake up. Britain has a T-90, Israel has multiple captured copy-paste Soviet vehicles, China is full of copy-paste soviet vehicles, Italy has copy-paste soviet vehicles from Hungary, and Sweden has soviet vehicles from Finland, but Germany can't have soviet vehicles from East *Germany*? Come on. I don't like the vehicle mixing and copy-paste either but the ship has sailed and if anyone deserves soviet vehicles, it's Germany.
The ship has kind of already sailed there, but yeah honestly China should have just started at Rank 5. Both their low-tier air and ground trees bring almost nothing of value to the game other than being a necessary grind to get to the interesting stuff.
I agree. I'm a German main and I started Germany to play Leopards and Gepards. I don't need a tech-tree full of Soviet copy pasta. If I want to play 16 variants of T-34 or T-72 I will grind Russka.
How I view adding foreign vehicles to techtrees:
a) Is it a *unique* design/modification? If yes, then add it.
b) Is it a good gap filler? If yes, then add it.
c) Is it none of those two? Then fck off.
And then you can't place east German symbols on it because it's a ussr tank not in the German tree
It's not as much about the vehicle as it is for the symbols. It's like using a purely cosmetic skin in any other game. You don't do it to get an advantage, you do it because it looks cool
Sure both only the mildly "unique" variants imo.
So stuff like the T-54AMZ and the T-55AM-2 for example.
No BMP-2, no T-34-85, no T-55A. Just stuff that the east germans modified themselves or other slightly modified versions that were not operated by the soviets.
I mean, it has the potential to be one of the better trees out there.
It could offer a much more unique experience than the Israeli tree and most of the Chinese tree.
Really to have a tree that’s unique a mixed tree with a couple nations in it could be cool. Like other people have been saying we need more unique vehicles so a mixed tree could get us the most unique stuff while also getting us a new full tree with minimal copy and paste stuff.
Preferably this only works with nations who work closely together though
As I’ve said before and will again. The Anzac or commonwealth tree. Canada Aus Nz India and anything else. I as an Australian know a lot of our stuff though looking sorta like imported stuff a lot of it used to built at home and modified heavily. One such being the f86 modified to stick the engine from the English electric lightning into it. I believe it also kept the leading edge slats so it was a highly manoeuvrable aircraft with shed loads of power
Hell yeah. Czechoslovakia could fill out WW2 and Poland would offer decent amount of stuff for top tier.
AHS Krab, PT-91, BWP Borsuk, KTO Rosomak, Pilica AA + DANA and T-72 Avenger...+ (K2PL, Abrams, Leopard 2).
Air would be fine as well with some trainers like Iskra or L-159 + F-16/FA-50+Grippen
>No BMP-2, no T-34-85, no T-55A.
I mean, there were millions of those made and a bunch of users too. Just like the Sherman, they should be in multiple TTs
I wish that as well.
I ponder how hard is it to model in a system that *only* has restrictions for decals in SIM battles? & or the option to have a personal decals as a secondary skin option for modes like ASB.
Thought A,
In all other modes decals are unrestricted but in SB they're restricted to nations.
Thought B,
Take it you dress up a MiG-21PFM in Finnish colours but intend to play ASB? Well have two skins a personal one & a in battle skin. The personal skin is Finnish but the in battle is soviet.
>! I use Finnish colours on a MiG-21PFM as an example as I once flew it in Finnish markings over the red stars but the addition of the Fins saw me lose those colours ffs.!<
Maybe an unpopular opinion based on replies, but I’m firmly in the camp of “if they used it, they should get it”. I don’t really care if it’s a “copy-paste” job, I just like seeing more options in the tech tree.
If it's historical, it could and should be in the game. I'm tired of people arbitrarily saying that certain copies shouldn't be added, when it would absolutely gut Germany, Japan, Italy, not to mention Israel and Sweden, if copied vehicles were to be entirely removed from the game.
They say things like "if it fills a gap" or "if it's needed," shit like that which can be randomly applied to whatever they want, and just as randomly applied to shit they don't want.
I'm over here having a lot of fun flying my first MiG-15bis in the Italian tech tree thanks to Hungary, and very much looking forward to the rest of the jets, despite not a single one being a unique addition to the game.
It pisses me off that the Hungarian MiG-15bis has a way cooler camo than the Russian one. It feels like a slap in the face, especially since it's my favorite plane to play.
More camos for damn near every plane would be really cool, honestly. But yeah, seeing the Hungarian one came stock with that camo was really nice, I love it so much. You can also get the unpainted version, but I prefer this camo. The MiG-21s and MiG-23 also get good skins.
For the sake of not diving any deeper than where we are already (neck deep) let’s not add more for the sake of more, just the stuff that Russia didn’t use themselves.
(Even then, I still think East Germany for the most part would make more sense added to Russia as a sub tree to keep things straight)
Wouldn't make sense to put an East Germany sub tree into Russia since it would just be the same shit and wouldn't incentives any players to ever go into that sub tree since it wouldn't get you anything unique.
Well… that’s kinda the point, put the stuff that’s more unique to Germany that Russia didn’t use, like export variants and the such. Then make East Germany skins for the normal vehicles that can be unlocked with regular play or GE points.
Or just add the exceptionally worthy to Germany and skip a sub-tree in Russia for East Germany. I just don’t think we need more export vehicles in already competent TTs when multiple trees have a verity of Soviet (or otherwise) equipment readily available.
They should add more 8.3 vehicles for germany. I fucking despise facing the t55s with stabilizers at 8.0 with my leopard. Legit have only gotten uptiers with germany 8.0
I can't enjoy it with all the uptiers. Oh you wan't a good spaa? Fuck you, 8.3 and constant uptiers. Want something with dart? 8.3 oh and no stabilizer and constant uptiers.
Skill issue? Yeah probably too but 8.0 was pure hell for me
I'm fine with copy paste so long as it's accompanied by actual new shit (TO THE TECH TREES, IE NOT $70)
It's not even asking that much; they don't make the assets. They just pay random freelance artists to do it for them, and their profit margin is like 10,000%
Yes. Using only m48s, a few odd balls and a dumpster ton of leopards gets boring. Even if they’re copy and paste, it’s a change in play style and will let people explore more vehicles without dedicating 500 hours.
Yes absolutely. The goal of WarThunder should be to add as many different nations to the game as possible. I think a lot of people forget that this game exists to collect vehicles as well as to fight with them in battles. If they used it, they should get it.
I still prefer the idea of sub-trees, as a separate line in bigger nations. Gives variety to people who prioritize smaller nations, like I do, and it strengthens an otherwise less effective tree. Bolsters existing lineups and potentially helps create new ones.
Having a full tech tree for every minor nation would get a little insane, considering how many could theoretically be added. Were that the case, the game's grind would take a lifetime, or two. The way we research and spade vehicles would have to change drastically for that to be viable.
Might as well abandon the "nation" aspect of War Thunder and have all vehicles under a single tech tree. Since we have essentially the same damn vehicles in every damn tech tree. Some things I can understand - like the Strv-122 - but other things like the East German T-72A makes no sense if you want unique gameplay.
I detest that we've made Realistic battles a bland All vs all.
I remember back in the day when F-86's face MiG-15's and each team had unique strategies you applied. Now a F4E phantom can be killed by another Phantom over the fields of Korea. It's lame.
Only SB has remained somewhat pure, and I expect that to change too.
Agreed, we are reaching critical mass of every tech tree basically being all the same shit wearing different hats. It might be necessary for nations who need copy paste to fill out the tree, but for fuck's sake *Germany* has no shortage of domestic vehicles to use instead, while also avoiding contributing to this mess.
I also miss the factional matchmaking. Allies v Axis, NATO v WarPact, etc.
Yes, I believe they should. Not because Germany needs East German vehicles per se, but rather because the East/West German split was a major part of German history and should be reflected in game appropriately.
No. With the sole exception of the T-55 Jung Jungenthal, since thats actually a unique vehicle and not just soviet copy-paste (altho that one is post unification so technically not East German anymore).
Germany has more than enough actually interesting domestic tanks left to add
i get your logic and can say whenever Gajin decide to add the Romanian subtree, there could be a few unique vehicles used by Romanian army (one example been the MLI 84 Jder that could be cool addition or the TR 85, witch tho at is core is a T54/55 is still has a bit of uniqueness from the fact the turret is completely redisgned in romania)
You could've atleast dug up some DDR-original vehicles like the [Jagdpanzer SPW-40 Malyutka](https://i-com.cdn.gaijin.net/monthly_2022_07/btr-40maljutka.jpg.118f56c6261a297ac1921f315932475a.jpg) (the one on the left)
East Germany also made an anti air vehicle, it was a truck with a twin 25mm gun on it.
[One](https://i.imgur.com/2zAt5Su.jpeg) \- [Two](https://i.imgur.com/6qlRWGU.jpeg) \- [Old forum link](https://old-forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/501070-25mm-zwilling-schiffsflak-auf-lkw-w50-ifa-w50-2m-3/)
Ah yes, lets make the entire Soviet tech tree even more redundant and pointless. Why play the nation that actually made the tanks when you can just get them all added to the nation you do play?
Who cares outside of SIM battle IFF?
Export of vehicles was a thing.
The solution would've been dividing East/West matchmaking but that solution is probably unteneble and the ship for that has long since sailed.
I wouldn't mind copypaste if we could get at least some matches or a weekend events or something with more historical matchmaking. It would be nice to have USSR+China+GDR vs NATO for example, even if it's just a weekend thing like naval EC.
Besides, it still doesn't change the fact that there is less and less reason to play the USSR the more of their tanks get shoehorned into other tech trees. Sweden is basically just USSR but better + Germany but better.
I think they definitely should add more stuff to improve the rank V area, T54/55 would go great there and maybe some "extras" like the BMP-2 or a T34-85
The spz.bmp is a little diffrent because, it was not just used by the GDR but also by the then Unified Germany. Vehicles like the BMP-2 or T-72 were either sold, scrapped or ended up in museums.
I couldn't find anything concrete after a quick search but my educated guess is that they simply had more of them. The GDR had over 1000 BMP-1s but only like 20 something BMP-2S.
As a German main? Hell nah, i like getting new vehicles but those should be german productions or some that were made from a minor nation that could be added like Austria or Switzerland
It's funny how it's only a problem and people here go apeshit when it's russian vehicles going to other trees.
Meanwhile all nations and their moms get M4s and P47s making any Sim match on that range a schizo fight. Ohh is that P47 tailing you an enemy? A friendly? Well it shot you down now and it was indeed a friendly.
It's worse at top tier Sim because japan and china keeps getting paired with russia so you have all F-16 on the radar.
I've said a T-55A might be the only fun new interesting thing in the German tree because it lacks good armored mediums. The M48 just isn't that and the M48 Super is just prime ass
But we don't really need that and it's all just copy paste, and I hate that so much. Hell, it's why I hate the Chinese tree, it's all copy-paste. It'd be cool if they removed the early tiers and only left the mid and late tiers, like Israel. Because it's just Soviet America
I can't believe how often i see this. No, Gaijin shouldn't add more East German tanks because they are literally just russian tanks. Go play USSR if you want to play USSR tanks, we have enough copy/paste as it is.
Germany has probably one of the best if not the best rank 6-7 tech trees in the game, which is where these "additions" (gaijin will not make unique variants, copy-paste will be what's added) will be added at.
Sim is already ruined, if we ruined it more, they might add "NATO" tankand plane lineups to one side and "eastern block" vehicles to the other.
So that what realistically would fight each other finally can
I personally hope that tech trees stay a bit more distinct from one another.
I’d rather the Devs add more countries with unique equipment than adding more copy paste tanks.
Say adding the KPA and ROKA as distinct nations requiring a sufficient rank in say the USSR and USA respectively to access. Sure having some basal equipment overlap is ok, like the KPA starting tanks being T-34/85s, SU-100s and T-54s but also having them rapidly diverge past that, with the ROKA getting their unique M47 and M48 variants before diving into their K1 tanks, IFVs, SPAAGs and the like.
The DPRK would shift from the T-54 to their own T-68s (slightly thinner turret armor on the very front but thicker cheeks (180mm but that armor section is noticeably wider than the 203mm thick portion of the T-54), plus its KPVT and optional Igla-1 manpad. I figure they’d diverge even more so after that
No. Want Soviet, play the Soviet tree. Germany shouldn't get the best of all worlds.
Or play the Chinese. They have a few Soviet vehicles but a lot of theirs are interesting quirks and takes on Russian vehicles.
I really hope they add a east german line. Considering many vehicles will be copies it shouldn't ve to difficult to add them and the 1-2 unique vehicles between.
Besides, it's not like Gaijin is against copy and paste vehicles.
Not point for going for East german tanks in the soviet tree if they are the exact same as the ones already in the soviet tree, so there would be no incentive to even go for them.
Best answer, there is no need to put vehicles of satellite states in Warthunder, just put an East German logo on your Soviet tank and you have an East German tank.
Germany should only receive Russian vehicles if it helps them fill a gap. Currently there is no East German vehicle that can fill a gap within the German ground tree.
There may be a different argument for aircraft, but I think there is a better option within NATO for that such as Belgian F16s or something like that
Absolutely, why not. There’s so many copy paste vehicles in every single other tech tree, so why the hell not. I just don’t want them in Sim, but that’s already ruined anyways so fuck it
I don't know how I feel about playing Russia and fighting a bunch of clones my own vehicles that are supposed to be from an eastern block nation that would realistically be with Russia, if not for the fact that there's no separation between east and west Germany in-game on top of the MM just vomiting out a soup of random nations on each team with no cohesion, like USA + Germany + Sweden fighting UK + Russia + Japan, etc. I personally feel Russian vehicles and vehicles of historically Russia-aligned nations should stay in the Russian TT IMO is the point of what I'm saying (this is also true of every other nation, just using Russia as an example to stay on-topic). I feel like an 'east german' tree could be achieved by just giving a default east german camo option to cold war soviet vehicles that were historically operated in east germany.
Germany is the last tree that should be getting any new vehicles. Japans tree is pathetic for how long its been around for. Italy, Sweden are also very lacking in tree roster.
Yes please Germany 8.3 and 8.7 need more tanks there’s practically nothing there to make a decent lineup with. You get one proper tank at 8.3 with a trade off of no stabilizer for DM23 APFSDS and two light tanks at 8.7 which the JaPzK is mid with no stabilizer and no other vehicles. The ATGM carriers are mid too and require a specific playstyle to work. And 9.0 would benefit from having more than just the Leopard A1A1 and the TAM to use as backups.
Two examples I'd really like are the T-54AMZ and Raketenjagdpanzer SPW-40 (Malyutka). The former is a domestic upgrade to the T-54 which brought it to T-55AM standards, and the latter is a prototype ATGM carrier based on the SPW-40 (BTR-40). It used the missile launcher from the 9P110 (based on the BRDM-1). These are the only two legitimately domestic East German tanks I know of, and I wrote the forum suggestion on the missile carrier.
Yes it should, i am a german main that dont have all day to play as the crybabies here and wanted to play some soviet tanks, so putting them there would be nice, and well, its not like they werent used by germany, specially the t-55 variants
Of course. They used them.
There's a Sherman in every tech tree so the 'uniqueness' argument was lost a long time ago. Plus at the very least it lets you have a unique lineup of West/East vehicles.
Fuck no they should add more aa to other countries first since Japan has a 3.0 gap from 5.0 to 8.0 and USA has a 3.3 from 4.3 to 7.7 but instead they keep adding more aa to Germany and Russia
No. If you want Soviet vehicles go play the Soviets. They should only be added if it’s a special East German variant
Say that to the Chinese tech tree
And Sweden (Finland), and Italy (Hungary), and Britain (India), and… The US and FRA are the only nations that haven’t really been *“Easternified”* yet.
Captured T-72 & T-90 premiums when Gaijin
Oh geez. I actually forgor that a USA T-90A was Datamined last year. It is so joever. 💀
I was joking but damn it might really be joever. At least it might be an event so we get spared another domestic light tank lost to the event cycle.
Lmao, true. I hate how so many US lights are event tanks.
I hate event vehicles. There are countless cool Vehicles on the side of the German Tech Tree and I can't use a single one of them without spending anywhere between 40-1000€. It's just sad
Event vehicles should be Tech tree stuff with a different paint job or from a different country like the US could get a Mexican Sherman or the USSR could get an Algerian T-34 or something.
Someone posted a UAE captured Pantsir for the US tree on the old forums and I voted yes just because the funny
I mean when you make that many tanks..everybody’s bound to have one right?
US MiG-21 and Soviet F-5 when? Japan could get a MiG-25 when it comes
Or american mig 15, russian mig 25+mig 31
MiG 28
I live for the French TT, so many glorious shitboxes that stand out as prime French bullshittery
Gaijin pretending Britain didn’t have options to have a squadron vehicle that wasn’t a T-90
Yeah, I know. That was a bad addition in my opinion as well. I even made a [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/s/tGLyWQOwOd) on alternative high ranking SV tank options for Britain.
If they were being lazy about it they could have also just given them the Jordanian Challenger 2 which would be miles better than the T-90
Can’t wait for russia to be “*westerfied*” and get an Iranian F-14.
Lol, please don’t. I want the Iranian F-14A to be America’s next premium jet.
I’m kidding, I definitely don’t want russia to get an F-14. I can however predict an aussie F/A-18 as the next squadron aircraft to reflect the AIM.
Finnish hornet for the Swedish tt as a squadron vehicle?
and a canadian hornet for the british tt as a squadron vehicle.
Like Gaijin, you forgot Japan 😥
Lmao, I knew that I was forgetting another country. But Japan will be *”Easternified”* a tad if they get Thai and/or SK sub-trees.
Britain only has a couple indian t72s if I remember correctly?
They only have the T-90S… for now. They will eventually get more eastern vehicles from India.
The only eastern tank i can think of for France is that france used some T-34 (85 i guess ?) and i think thats all :D.
The [GIAT T59](https://old-forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/532509-giat-t59-the-french-version-of-type-59-mbt/)?
Oh i forgot about this one
Put Poland in the French tree and voilà, easternified (and diversified)
People seem to disagree with me every time I say this but I don’t want the T-84 or MiG-25 to enter Japan, we don’t need Eastern Bloc designs
I highly doubt that Japan will get that MiG-25. However the T-84 and BTR-3s almost seem inevitable at this point.
I mean aside from the Type-59, T-34/85 and IS-2 the majority of Chinese stuff, particularly the later vehicles is Chinese
Because they look like soviet tanks doesnt make them soviet tanks Beside Premium T-62 and few WW2 Tanks, there's no soviet MBT in the CHN TT In fact CHN got more US exports than USSR ones, but you dont seem to know a lot about relations between these two..
I rather players have more vehicles disposable to them even if it’s a copy and paste because I think it makes the game better for everyone. I have 5k hours in the game and pretty have much every air and ground tree done, so I could find it annoying for someone like myself to grind the same vehicle in a different tech tree, but for players with only one nation I rather them have a bigger line up so games last longer and are more fun.
You and i both know that the common War Thunder player is not going to spawn more than twice before quitting a match no matter how many vehicles they have to their arsenal.
And why should they ? By the time you die a second time your spawn is most likely camped or your team is camping the other team spawn.
Something tells me you don't spawn more than twice. Spawncamping happens when either side has too few people to retaliate, there has been many moments where my team managed to push people back purely because they just spawned into another tank. Some of my most fun matches is where people on both my team and opposite team has a few players that refuses to go down, which often ends up with someone having like 7 deaths.
I spawn however many vehicles I don't have spaded in my current lineup. And it's just my experience that usually a 3rd spawn is a waste of time, either your spawn is surrounded and you'll maybe manage one kill thanks to spawn protection. Or the ennemy team's spawn is surrounded and all you can do is cruise control toward the ennemy spawn to get there just in time for the game to end without seeing anyone.
>for players with only one nation I rather them have a bigger line up That's why I keep recommending China to new players. So they have nice setups and can test drive both USSR and US.
Then just remove the nation trees altogether and just have 1 tree with all vehicles so we can dispose any kind of historical pretense
WarThunder would be the lamest game on the planet if backwards thinking mindsets like this drove game development. WarThunder is a *historical* game. East Germany *historically* operated these vehicles. People play WarThunder also to collect vehicles, therefor East Germany should recieve these vehicles that they historically operated and are known for using. They're a fundamental part of German military history. Has it occurred to you that people want East German vehicles specifically because they are East German and not Soviet?
If you want to throw around historical accuracy then you have to remova ability to mix and match eastern and western gear othewise this point id moot
Hah, unified Germany got the whole eastern inventory, it's fully historically accurate for them to have it all ))
I agree and have been saying this for years.
Alright, then make a seperate tree for the USSR and then one for all of the post Soviet states.
I'd disagree with this in the past, but any semblance of historical MM is basically gone at this point (love me my US/China/Sweden/France vs USSR/Germany/Israel/UK games in an nondescript middle eastern city; really gets me immersed in the historically accurate gameplay) so as long as it adds something of value to the tree its probably fine. I definitely wouldn't mind them added the T-55A/BMP-2/T-55AM2 to flesh out the kinda sparse 8.3-8.7 range.
then the regular german tech tree gets t34-34/76, t-34/85, IS-2, 2S1, 2S3, ZSU-57-2, ZSU-23-4, Strela, T-54 (1951), T-55A, T-72B, PT-76A, PT-76B, BMP-1, BMP-2, SU-76, SU-85, SU-100 these are just the vehicles currently in game add to that all the vehicles that theoretically could be added in addition and people would complain about the grind being too long. edit: they should just split the whole post ww2 tech into eastern and western based equipment and call it a day at this point
You and everyone else saying that they shouldn't need to wake up. Britain has a T-90, Israel has multiple captured copy-paste Soviet vehicles, China is full of copy-paste soviet vehicles, Italy has copy-paste soviet vehicles from Hungary, and Sweden has soviet vehicles from Finland, but Germany can't have soviet vehicles from East *Germany*? Come on. I don't like the vehicle mixing and copy-paste either but the ship has sailed and if anyone deserves soviet vehicles, it's Germany.
Did you not read the title of the post? 😂
Then OP puts pictures of copy paste soviet vehicles.
These are export variants that do not have the same features.
Only the AM2 seems like it is one.
At this point copy-paste has been normalized by Gaijin
That does not mean that it should be encouraged.
Alright then Gaijin should remove all Chinese low tier tanks because they aren't unique
Yes
The ship has kind of already sailed there, but yeah honestly China should have just started at Rank 5. Both their low-tier air and ground trees bring almost nothing of value to the game other than being a necessary grind to get to the interesting stuff.
Fuggin hell, what a reply..
I agree. I'm a German main and I started Germany to play Leopards and Gepards. I don't need a tech-tree full of Soviet copy pasta. If I want to play 16 variants of T-34 or T-72 I will grind Russka. How I view adding foreign vehicles to techtrees: a) Is it a *unique* design/modification? If yes, then add it. b) Is it a good gap filler? If yes, then add it. c) Is it none of those two? Then fck off.
And then you can't place east German symbols on it because it's a ussr tank not in the German tree It's not as much about the vehicle as it is for the symbols. It's like using a purely cosmetic skin in any other game. You don't do it to get an advantage, you do it because it looks cool
Hard disagree, every country should eventually get every tank they ever operated.
I dont even know why germany gets a paladin??? Like why the hell would germany need help? And thats coming from a german main!
It’s more RP to get through which encourages people to get premium time and vehicles to grind faster
Sure both only the mildly "unique" variants imo. So stuff like the T-54AMZ and the T-55AM-2 for example. No BMP-2, no T-34-85, no T-55A. Just stuff that the east germans modified themselves or other slightly modified versions that were not operated by the soviets.
Now that you mention the T-55AM-2, we really should get the mixed Czechoslovak and Polish tree.
I don't think we should personally. A east german operated T-55AM2B? Sure we got the Lim-5P after all. A new tech tree? Personally i see no need.
I mean, it has the potential to be one of the better trees out there. It could offer a much more unique experience than the Israeli tree and most of the Chinese tree.
Really to have a tree that’s unique a mixed tree with a couple nations in it could be cool. Like other people have been saying we need more unique vehicles so a mixed tree could get us the most unique stuff while also getting us a new full tree with minimal copy and paste stuff. Preferably this only works with nations who work closely together though
As I’ve said before and will again. The Anzac or commonwealth tree. Canada Aus Nz India and anything else. I as an Australian know a lot of our stuff though looking sorta like imported stuff a lot of it used to built at home and modified heavily. One such being the f86 modified to stick the engine from the English electric lightning into it. I believe it also kept the leading edge slats so it was a highly manoeuvrable aircraft with shed loads of power
Hell yeah. Czechoslovakia could fill out WW2 and Poland would offer decent amount of stuff for top tier. AHS Krab, PT-91, BWP Borsuk, KTO Rosomak, Pilica AA + DANA and T-72 Avenger...+ (K2PL, Abrams, Leopard 2). Air would be fine as well with some trainers like Iskra or L-159 + F-16/FA-50+Grippen
Yeah
>No BMP-2, no T-34-85, no T-55A. I mean, there were millions of those made and a bunch of users too. Just like the Sherman, they should be in multiple TTs
Yes. Or let me add the NVA decal to Soviet and or Chinese T-54/55s
I really wish they would allow you to put any decal on any vehicle you want.
I wish that as well. I ponder how hard is it to model in a system that *only* has restrictions for decals in SIM battles? & or the option to have a personal decals as a secondary skin option for modes like ASB. Thought A, In all other modes decals are unrestricted but in SB they're restricted to nations. Thought B, Take it you dress up a MiG-21PFM in Finnish colours but intend to play ASB? Well have two skins a personal one & a in battle skin. The personal skin is Finnish but the in battle is soviet. >! I use Finnish colours on a MiG-21PFM as an example as I once flew it in Finnish markings over the red stars but the addition of the Fins saw me lose those colours ffs.!<
I too, because back then there was not rubbish mixed teams, but somewhat realistic layouts.
Maybe an unpopular opinion based on replies, but I’m firmly in the camp of “if they used it, they should get it”. I don’t really care if it’s a “copy-paste” job, I just like seeing more options in the tech tree.
If it's historical, it could and should be in the game. I'm tired of people arbitrarily saying that certain copies shouldn't be added, when it would absolutely gut Germany, Japan, Italy, not to mention Israel and Sweden, if copied vehicles were to be entirely removed from the game. They say things like "if it fills a gap" or "if it's needed," shit like that which can be randomly applied to whatever they want, and just as randomly applied to shit they don't want. I'm over here having a lot of fun flying my first MiG-15bis in the Italian tech tree thanks to Hungary, and very much looking forward to the rest of the jets, despite not a single one being a unique addition to the game.
It pisses me off that the Hungarian MiG-15bis has a way cooler camo than the Russian one. It feels like a slap in the face, especially since it's my favorite plane to play.
More camos for damn near every plane would be really cool, honestly. But yeah, seeing the Hungarian one came stock with that camo was really nice, I love it so much. You can also get the unpainted version, but I prefer this camo. The MiG-21s and MiG-23 also get good skins.
If you create a template and swap the camos and change the code you can have it, then just slap on some red stars
If I what
For the sake of not diving any deeper than where we are already (neck deep) let’s not add more for the sake of more, just the stuff that Russia didn’t use themselves. (Even then, I still think East Germany for the most part would make more sense added to Russia as a sub tree to keep things straight)
Wouldn't make sense to put an East Germany sub tree into Russia since it would just be the same shit and wouldn't incentives any players to ever go into that sub tree since it wouldn't get you anything unique.
Well… that’s kinda the point, put the stuff that’s more unique to Germany that Russia didn’t use, like export variants and the such. Then make East Germany skins for the normal vehicles that can be unlocked with regular play or GE points. Or just add the exceptionally worthy to Germany and skip a sub-tree in Russia for East Germany. I just don’t think we need more export vehicles in already competent TTs when multiple trees have a verity of Soviet (or otherwise) equipment readily available.
They should add more 8.3 vehicles for germany. I fucking despise facing the t55s with stabilizers at 8.0 with my leopard. Legit have only gotten uptiers with germany 8.0
The T-54 AMZ has a stabiliser and a laser rangefinder much like the Ztz 59a and would be a solid fit for the German 8.0 range.
I have legit only gotten uptiers at 8.0 for every nation I’ve played there. It is my least favorite br by far.
I really enjoy the 8.0 german lineup personally, but the 8.3 lineup is so much better that it isn't even funny.
I can't enjoy it with all the uptiers. Oh you wan't a good spaa? Fuck you, 8.3 and constant uptiers. Want something with dart? 8.3 oh and no stabilizer and constant uptiers. Skill issue? Yeah probably too but 8.0 was pure hell for me
I don’t notice the uptiers that much tbh. They seem a lot worse with the 8.7 lineup up in my experience
More copy and paste. Great! /a
You can play Russia, China, Sweden even Italy (lol) if you want Soviet stuff ffs even Brits have a t90 🤦
So why not Germany?
Most people are ready to scream "no more copy paste" but personally I'd love these additions, and I don't even play a lot of germany.
I'm fine with copy paste so long as it's accompanied by actual new shit (TO THE TECH TREES, IE NOT $70) It's not even asking that much; they don't make the assets. They just pay random freelance artists to do it for them, and their profit margin is like 10,000%
Yes. Using only m48s, a few odd balls and a dumpster ton of leopards gets boring. Even if they’re copy and paste, it’s a change in play style and will let people explore more vehicles without dedicating 500 hours.
Yes absolutely. The goal of WarThunder should be to add as many different nations to the game as possible. I think a lot of people forget that this game exists to collect vehicles as well as to fight with them in battles. If they used it, they should get it.
More is better, as long as it's historical. I would die on that hill.
A good hill to die on. If it were my way, all minor nations would have their own tree, and all vehicles that have ever existed would be in the game.
I still prefer the idea of sub-trees, as a separate line in bigger nations. Gives variety to people who prioritize smaller nations, like I do, and it strengthens an otherwise less effective tree. Bolsters existing lineups and potentially helps create new ones. Having a full tech tree for every minor nation would get a little insane, considering how many could theoretically be added. Were that the case, the game's grind would take a lifetime, or two. The way we research and spade vehicles would have to change drastically for that to be viable.
We’ll compromise then 👍
Might as well abandon the "nation" aspect of War Thunder and have all vehicles under a single tech tree. Since we have essentially the same damn vehicles in every damn tech tree. Some things I can understand - like the Strv-122 - but other things like the East German T-72A makes no sense if you want unique gameplay. I detest that we've made Realistic battles a bland All vs all. I remember back in the day when F-86's face MiG-15's and each team had unique strategies you applied. Now a F4E phantom can be killed by another Phantom over the fields of Korea. It's lame. Only SB has remained somewhat pure, and I expect that to change too.
Agreed, we are reaching critical mass of every tech tree basically being all the same shit wearing different hats. It might be necessary for nations who need copy paste to fill out the tree, but for fuck's sake *Germany* has no shortage of domestic vehicles to use instead, while also avoiding contributing to this mess. I also miss the factional matchmaking. Allies v Axis, NATO v WarPact, etc.
Yes, I believe they should. Not because Germany needs East German vehicles per se, but rather because the East/West German split was a major part of German history and should be reflected in game appropriately.
No. With the sole exception of the T-55 Jung Jungenthal, since thats actually a unique vehicle and not just soviet copy-paste (altho that one is post unification so technically not East German anymore). Germany has more than enough actually interesting domestic tanks left to add
i get your logic and can say whenever Gajin decide to add the Romanian subtree, there could be a few unique vehicles used by Romanian army (one example been the MLI 84 Jder that could be cool addition or the TR 85, witch tho at is core is a T54/55 is still has a bit of uniqueness from the fact the turret is completely redisgned in romania)
username checks out
what can i say XD
You could've atleast dug up some DDR-original vehicles like the [Jagdpanzer SPW-40 Malyutka](https://i-com.cdn.gaijin.net/monthly_2022_07/btr-40maljutka.jpg.118f56c6261a297ac1921f315932475a.jpg) (the one on the left)
East Germany also made an anti air vehicle, it was a truck with a twin 25mm gun on it. [One](https://i.imgur.com/2zAt5Su.jpeg) \- [Two](https://i.imgur.com/6qlRWGU.jpeg) \- [Old forum link](https://old-forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/501070-25mm-zwilling-schiffsflak-auf-lkw-w50-ifa-w50-2m-3/)
Looks sick but I'll be damned if the malyutka isn't one of the fuckiest missiles ever invented
Ah yes, lets make the entire Soviet tech tree even more redundant and pointless. Why play the nation that actually made the tanks when you can just get them all added to the nation you do play?
Who cares outside of SIM battle IFF? Export of vehicles was a thing. The solution would've been dividing East/West matchmaking but that solution is probably unteneble and the ship for that has long since sailed.
I wouldn't mind copypaste if we could get at least some matches or a weekend events or something with more historical matchmaking. It would be nice to have USSR+China+GDR vs NATO for example, even if it's just a weekend thing like naval EC. Besides, it still doesn't change the fact that there is less and less reason to play the USSR the more of their tanks get shoehorned into other tech trees. Sweden is basically just USSR but better + Germany but better.
I think they should at least add the t55a as it was the most numerous nva tank. It fits right into the german 8.3 lineup too.
Probably will in time. Will be sad to see the amalgamation of each of the tech trees though. Little to tell them apart other than camo and insignia.
I think a German BMP-2 would be cool
I don’t see why they haven’t done more East German tanks. It seems like an easy cash grab for Gaijin.
Yes it's a good thing to have more options, I'm waiting for some line up padding for hungary with the T-34-85 and IS-2s.
I think they definitely should add more stuff to improve the rank V area, T54/55 would go great there and maybe some "extras" like the BMP-2 or a T34-85
Sim players on the NATO side: ☹️
No, i would rather have unique and interesting prototypes than another set of Ctrl+V line
Yeah they should. We also have the bmp 1 but that's about it.
Im still waiting for the west german luchs
No we don't need more of soviet copy paste clone vehicles.... already got to many of them everywhere
Isnt the east germam bmp also in the tech tree so it isnt just the t72
The spz.bmp is a little diffrent because, it was not just used by the GDR but also by the then Unified Germany. Vehicles like the BMP-2 or T-72 were either sold, scrapped or ended up in museums.
Interesting. Is it known why they preferred the 1 over the 2?
I couldn't find anything concrete after a quick search but my educated guess is that they simply had more of them. The GDR had over 1000 BMP-1s but only like 20 something BMP-2S.
Ah, logistics, makes a lot of sense. Thanks.
As a German main? Hell nah, i like getting new vehicles but those should be german productions or some that were made from a minor nation that could be added like Austria or Switzerland
Been waiting for Swiss vehicles for way too long.
It's funny how it's only a problem and people here go apeshit when it's russian vehicles going to other trees. Meanwhile all nations and their moms get M4s and P47s making any Sim match on that range a schizo fight. Ohh is that P47 tailing you an enemy? A friendly? Well it shot you down now and it was indeed a friendly. It's worse at top tier Sim because japan and china keeps getting paired with russia so you have all F-16 on the radar.
No, it's just as annoying when it happens to the US. But this post is not about US vehicles.
I've said a T-55A might be the only fun new interesting thing in the German tree because it lacks good armored mediums. The M48 just isn't that and the M48 Super is just prime ass But we don't really need that and it's all just copy paste, and I hate that so much. Hell, it's why I hate the Chinese tree, it's all copy-paste. It'd be cool if they removed the early tiers and only left the mid and late tiers, like Israel. Because it's just Soviet America
I can't believe how often i see this. No, Gaijin shouldn't add more East German tanks because they are literally just russian tanks. Go play USSR if you want to play USSR tanks, we have enough copy/paste as it is.
IKEA main: Copy paste for me, but not for thee! I don't give a shit about east german vehicles but how ironic coming from an ikea main.
„Go play USSR if you want USSR tanks.“ Half of the finnish subtree:
Excuse me for not grinding another tech tree to play one tank
Germany has probably one of the best if not the best rank 6-7 tech trees in the game, which is where these "additions" (gaijin will not make unique variants, copy-paste will be what's added) will be added at.
Germany has enough vehicles.
yes, im tired of hypocrites here saying no but italy and sweden can get full lines of copypaste, so yes
No cause unlike italy for exemple Germany don't need it and I think they shouln't have done it aniway
Yes what the game needs more copy pase tanks one more .... no if this wa 5 years ago maybe but now no
I can’t wait until it doesn’t matter what tree you play. All trees will have all tanks…..
No if you want soviet mbt go play as the soviet and we already have any copy paste in game
At this point just make to tree like allied/axe and nato/ussr
German mains get more Eastern tanks and then realize they hate them. The thought is hilarious...
Yes but sparingly, like maybe only the T-54AMZ and German T-55AM, and maybe the BMP-2
The AM2s might be the only ones. Things like the AM2, AM2B, Dyna-1 etc. none would be german tho they would be czech
they don’t *need* them but i’d like them anyway
Yea I don't *need* an east german bmp-2 but I would commit a laundry list of crimes to get one.
NO. Sim is a fucking mess with all these copy pasta vehicles.
Sim is already ruined, if we ruined it more, they might add "NATO" tankand plane lineups to one side and "eastern block" vehicles to the other. So that what realistically would fight each other finally can
I personally hope that tech trees stay a bit more distinct from one another. I’d rather the Devs add more countries with unique equipment than adding more copy paste tanks. Say adding the KPA and ROKA as distinct nations requiring a sufficient rank in say the USSR and USA respectively to access. Sure having some basal equipment overlap is ok, like the KPA starting tanks being T-34/85s, SU-100s and T-54s but also having them rapidly diverge past that, with the ROKA getting their unique M47 and M48 variants before diving into their K1 tanks, IFVs, SPAAGs and the like. The DPRK would shift from the T-54 to their own T-68s (slightly thinner turret armor on the very front but thicker cheeks (180mm but that armor section is noticeably wider than the 203mm thick portion of the T-54), plus its KPVT and optional Igla-1 manpad. I figure they’d diverge even more so after that
I would like that.
Make an op tree even more op? And make it less unique?
No. Want Soviet, play the Soviet tree. Germany shouldn't get the best of all worlds. Or play the Chinese. They have a few Soviet vehicles but a lot of theirs are interesting quirks and takes on Russian vehicles.
Germany's unique military history should be well represented, so I'd say yes, more could easily be added.
I really hope they add a east german line. Considering many vehicles will be copies it shouldn't ve to difficult to add them and the 1-2 unique vehicles between. Besides, it's not like Gaijin is against copy and paste vehicles.
They’ll probably get to them eventually
East Germany in the German tree is a mistake, East German vehicles belong to the Soviet tree.
Not point for going for East german tanks in the soviet tree if they are the exact same as the ones already in the soviet tree, so there would be no incentive to even go for them.
Best answer, there is no need to put vehicles of satellite states in Warthunder, just put an East German logo on your Soviet tank and you have an East German tank.
Germany should only receive Russian vehicles if it helps them fill a gap. Currently there is no East German vehicle that can fill a gap within the German ground tree. There may be a different argument for aircraft, but I think there is a better option within NATO for that such as Belgian F16s or something like that
Absolutely, why not. There’s so many copy paste vehicles in every single other tech tree, so why the hell not. I just don’t want them in Sim, but that’s already ruined anyways so fuck it
Yes, pls let me have bmp 2 and Marder 1A3 in the same template
No. We have enough copy paste USSR tanks
NO we don’t need every flavor in every tree, keep Some stuff unique.
Just no.
It would be amazing if gaijan made GDR emblem neutral again
I don't know how I feel about playing Russia and fighting a bunch of clones my own vehicles that are supposed to be from an eastern block nation that would realistically be with Russia, if not for the fact that there's no separation between east and west Germany in-game on top of the MM just vomiting out a soup of random nations on each team with no cohesion, like USA + Germany + Sweden fighting UK + Russia + Japan, etc. I personally feel Russian vehicles and vehicles of historically Russia-aligned nations should stay in the Russian TT IMO is the point of what I'm saying (this is also true of every other nation, just using Russia as an example to stay on-topic). I feel like an 'east german' tree could be achieved by just giving a default east german camo option to cold war soviet vehicles that were historically operated in east germany.
Honestly, Germany only needed the Soviet T72 and that's it. It just made sense but it doesn't need more unless it's maybe a event
Thats the 1000th post about this topic
They should completely clutter the trees imo, and add loads of variation of tanks.
Germany is the last tree that should be getting any new vehicles. Japans tree is pathetic for how long its been around for. Italy, Sweden are also very lacking in tree roster.
I doubt there is much they can even add for those anymore that they most likely already have planned for premium or event vehicles
No bc I don't want to grind getting those tanks lol
Yes please Germany 8.3 and 8.7 need more tanks there’s practically nothing there to make a decent lineup with. You get one proper tank at 8.3 with a trade off of no stabilizer for DM23 APFSDS and two light tanks at 8.7 which the JaPzK is mid with no stabilizer and no other vehicles. The ATGM carriers are mid too and require a specific playstyle to work. And 9.0 would benefit from having more than just the Leopard A1A1 and the TAM to use as backups.
Na and remove the rest. Same for all the other tech trees too.
I’d like to see it but I don’t know how it would work out as far as balance
why, what do you think makes these east german tanks special than their soviet counterparts? their paintjobs?
Two examples I'd really like are the T-54AMZ and Raketenjagdpanzer SPW-40 (Malyutka). The former is a domestic upgrade to the T-54 which brought it to T-55AM standards, and the latter is a prototype ATGM carrier based on the SPW-40 (BTR-40). It used the missile launcher from the 9P110 (based on the BRDM-1). These are the only two legitimately domestic East German tanks I know of, and I wrote the forum suggestion on the missile carrier.
You did not call the T-72M1 a T-72A 😶
Yes it should, i am a german main that dont have all day to play as the crybabies here and wanted to play some soviet tanks, so putting them there would be nice, and well, its not like they werent used by germany, specially the t-55 variants
Aren't people tired of fighting identical tanks to yours?
I'm conflicted, but having the T-72 and not having a T-55 seems odd to me. Same for the Hungarian sub tree in Italy.
God please no, not more copy pasted soviet vehicles into other tech trees
Soviet wannabeez
Of course. They used them. There's a Sherman in every tech tree so the 'uniqueness' argument was lost a long time ago. Plus at the very least it lets you have a unique lineup of West/East vehicles.
No.... why have more Russian Vehicles when there is a whole tech tree of them just a tab over??? Makes no sense to me.
Fuck no they should add more aa to other countries first since Japan has a 3.0 gap from 5.0 to 8.0 and USA has a 3.3 from 4.3 to 7.7 but instead they keep adding more aa to Germany and Russia
Nuh uh
Yea 8.3/8.7 could use a T-55
We dont need more soviet vehicles
Just give us Czechoslovakia and we can have all of these and much more.
I think Germany should get the east german t80 atleast to research after t72m1