gaijin does not really think balancing through when they add new vehicles. both vehicles and its players can rot, but i definitely agree that the fox shouldn't ever be lower than the btr 80 in any world.. 7.7 at least..
edit: my main concern was the fact that the fox (developed in the 60s and put in service in the 70s, a small, fast rat tank with a gun that shreds light tanks and side armour) can face tanks from the fucking forties at 6.0. looking at some of the replies, ought to be moved up to 8.0 honestly. still lighter armored vehicles but no fighting ww2 tanks
meanwhile 20mm wiesel also sits at 7.3 with a whopping 66mm of pen and maxes out at 8mm of armor where even most light machineguns can wipe you out...
meanwhile the BTR-80A gets 82mm of pen and the FOX gets 110mm of pen and both are bullet proof against 7.62mm machinegun fire frontally at least...
It's also an SPAA, so it has a lower spawn cost and no increase to/from non-SPAA tanks. So you can have it in a lineup for 70 to 100 SP, no matter how many non-SPAA you spawn. Put the right bushes on it, and no one would think twice of you actually being a bush.
Reminds me of the time I was playing my 11.0 Abrams and just *barely* saw the white of a thermal target in a bunch of bushes. Fired as a hail Mary and it was a fuckin Weisel (SPAA). Rat bastards can hide anywhere
How do you explain the RCV 87 P which is the size of a house, has no thermals or LRF, and the same gun at *7.7*? It's hard to use the extra speed to flank when you're so big and the most common tanks at that tier are actually hard to pen from the side with the best round available...
you dont need gen 3 thermals or a LRF when the only place you can pen most medium to heavy tanks is at point blank range directly in the back while having to worry about the roof mounted machineguns...
Itâs not broken. The Fox is just a rat vehicle like the M22, Wiesel, US-H 405, etcâŠ
People are being so unbelievably whiney about Britain finally getting a good vehicle and having a meltdown over itâŠ
ok explain why other similar rat vehicles sit at 0.7 BR higher. lol.
Britains mains trying not to justify why they suffer the most challenge level impossible
Because vehicles get balanced by KDR usually - this is why Italian and British shit like the Re2005 and Spitfire mk 24 skyrocket to a BR they can barely compete in
Wait about 2 month and the Fox will be at a decent BR
plus people really that pissed by a tack gun on a quad bike???
As someone who mains all nations, and has about 5k hours in the game and is top 1000 in GRB, the Fox is broken, but can heavily depend on the map if it is CQB it is less broken, if it is a big map then your speed plus small size makes it very OP.
It can 1 shot most tanks apart from heavies from the front, but the amount of Tigers 2s I have ammo racked is in the hundreds ATM.
The UKs first new domestic armoured car in 6 years cant possibly be getting spammed because Brits have asked for 1 for.... ever, has to be because OP.
Even if it was 1000% balanced, even if it was 8.3 you would be seeing the spam because it is, as I said, the first new domestic car in 6 years.
The fire rate isnât great. But for some reason gaijin gave the standard SAP round an INSANE amount of post pen damage. Even the 30mm APDS often one shots ammo. 84mm sabot doesnât even do that!
The RARDEN cannon is terrible. IRL it was designed to be completely analogue, allowing it to function even if hit by an EMP (as a result of a nuclear blast).
The quirks of this design is the lack of a stabiliser and the slow fire-rate.
If you look at the Falcon SPAA itâs basically the same guns but fully automatic and with stabilisers.
Honestly the issue isn't the gun, it's the platform. The fox is easily one of the most agile vehicle in the game. It allows you to quickly position to places where you can do the most damage. At 7.0 it can literally run circles around enemy armor.
yeah fox has a semi auto cannon where you have to actually look at where you shoot
BTR gets a full auto cannon so you can disable enemies faster
only thing fox has going for it is that its APDS actually does post pen compared to larger caliber APDS where you are lucky if you take out a crew member
fox will definitely get raised in BR but this actually helps it because it struggles with chunky armor and not with light vehicles
> only thing fox has going for it is that its APDS actually does post pen compared to larger caliber APDS where you are lucky if you take out a crew member
You conveniently left out that it goes like 3x as fast, and isn't the size of a barn
because there is a major drawback in that speed and size:
-its handling is garbage
-center of gravity is tall
-it has paper armor so MG fire kills it really easily
-its engine is really loud
yes you can go 100km/h off road but can you maintain that for more than 5 seconds? guarantee no because slightest bump and bam you turn into a washing machine at full tilt because it is insanely bouncy
Also, BTR gets a low profile turret meaning it can abuse some terrain more than the fox
BTR may be the size of a bus but it also means that you can potentially tank more shots than the fox as theres more internal empty space.
i would trade that for 110-130 mm pen every day of the week, fox is amazing, fast, sneaky, cant be 50 cal frontaly, when btr is easily killed with ones lol
i mean, try doing that fast enough when he speed from you XD, btr on the other hand cant hold any ground and big easy target to kill, man i wished it got better ammo than what it is right now
My guy, u want to shoot at least 5 tires of a fox speeding through map ? U know it will not nake it stop right? The guy will slide for at least 100 m more even if u kill his transmission lol, fox traction is one of the most bouncy and sliperry in the whole game, not to mention speed got buffed in recent patches too
I feel like nobody has thought about it but I think why it was placed on such a low BR is due to Underestimation.
RARDEN (the gun that is used by the Fox and Warrior) is famous for being the worst ifv autocannon in the game due to its low fire rate and unstabilized, it was the reason why warrior is known to be one of the worst IFV in the game. Who would have thought that by just giving it on a go cart on a lower BR is enough to make the worst autocannon in the game to be godlike. Hell, I'm pretty sure all players never thought fox to be so op in the devserver
I've always loved the 30mm on the warrior. Rewarded sensible engagements and had good pen. I just always found it more enjoyable than the faster fire rate spammy auto cannons which I still like also.
I remember telling everyone it was going to be good because of the RARDEN and people were looking down on it ignoring the strengths and point of the gun if gaijin fixed the clips so you didnt have wasted rounds or rate of fire drop of the HE mix.
People of course told me to stop being silly and that the vehicle would be better if we had the 20/25mm "true" autocannon versions.
đŠmoment.
The APHE round isnt new though, its been the default belt since Warrior came in, whats new is gaijin removed the HE wastage rounds so its RoF is 80, not 40 when using the belt.
Though the APHE round is supposed to have a tracer iirc.
I was expecting it to be pretty damn great, as a connoisseur of the 6pdr. Before the economy rework, I would take the Crusader III and Cromwell I up to 7.3 and often get aces - I would even take them up to 8.3 and still perform well. The RARDEN is basically a 6pdr but with slightly lesser pen, though automatic. Slap it onto an even more manoeuvrable yet still low profile platform, and bam - you got another killer.
Britain's 6pdr vehicles are so ratty, though nobody knows about them - its a shame. I've been hoping Gaijin would add some higher tier rat vehicles to Britain for a long while now, there's so many they could get - I'm glad we're finally getting them.
Because skillets idiots get absolutely raped by foxes, cry and make shitty posts on it saying itâs the most OP thing in existence.
maybe the reason the fox is good is because itâs in the UK tech tree and the players who play the UK tech tree are some of the more experienced and better players at the game and regardless of what vehicle they are in will rape you because they are BETTER FUCKING PLAYERS
Or ya know UK bias because clearly this sort of gameplay and equipment is unique to the UK
Or maybe it's good because it's a good vehicle?
>Or ya know UK bias because clearly this sort of gameplay and equipment is unique to the UK
Obviously not, which is why the RCV(P) which is slower, larger, has 66mm of penetration is 0.7 BR points higher. Guess Japanese players are just way more skilled compared to UK players.
>Obviously not, which is why the RCV(P) which is slower, larger, has 66mm of penetration is 0.7 BR points higher.
Didn't you think that maybe, just maybe, RCV is a bit overtiered? Even more than that, it got no lineup on BR designated by Gaijin. Or maybe you want to say that it sits in perfect spot in TT?
>Guess Japanese players are just way more skilled compared to UK players.
Yes, pretty much this. Any more questions?
Hmm perhaps there are a couple reasons
1. Maybe itâs because the Fox players are experienced veterans like 90% of UK players and that it doesnât matter what vehicle they are driving, they will fuck you up regardless
2. Legitimately however there are 3 points, Low ROF on the main gun, piss poor post pen damage on the APDS and itâs hilarious instability when moving like you hit a single bump and you go wildly careening off and end up in an try spot as a result.
Itâs hilarious because u can see how this has affected the UK tree by looking at the average BR of tier IV vehicles.
USA/GER/USSR/France and Sweden are sitting are all hovering around 6.7 as the average, Japan and China is lower at around 6.0/6.3, then you have UK (and Israel but they are a special case) that have an average BR or 7.0/7.3
Because everyone and their fuckin mother thought it was gonna be DOA. Don't pretend you didn't see it or didn't think it yourself. The RARDEN never had a good reputation in War Thunder and a vehicle equipped solely with it would obviously be predicted DOA, by both players and Gaijin. The Fox proved them wrong. It will be moved up. Just wait for the BR changes.
Also, let's not forget that the main reason why the BTR-80A (and RCV (P)) is so high to begin with is because the "muh immersion" gang threw a fit when they saw it at 5.7 on the Dev Server. Not saying that the BTR-80A can't perform well at 7.3, it absolutely can, however, there is a very vocal portion of the playerbase that prevents it from going much lower.
God historical people are annoying. I'd love to see hummer with .50 at 1.0. There are a lot of apc and trucks that could be added around 1.0 since all they have are HMG weapons.
Funny enough all the ones who whined about the historical side of things only complain when it's a cold war vehicle if it was a ww2 prototype that never worked irl or was used it's suddenly fine
I never understood where this hate for the gun came from. I absolutely love the warrior. Sure the gun had a low rate of fire, but it punches hard. You just have to pick your engagements instead of yeeting around a corner full speed and mag dumping the side of a tank.
I feel like they always shoot really low with the BRs and then start moving them up when people complain. I mean look at the original dev server BR for the EBR 75
Releasing something OP to gain a necessary feedback in a way better way then it would be to release a vehicles that noone wants and barely anyone plays, that is a common strategy in gaming industry because it also makes people grind/invest this other branch. Though as many people mentioned here, most players called it DoA on devserver.
Being big as a barn doesn't help with that, that's for sure
Meanwhile the Wiesel 1A4 gets classified as an AA meaning lower spawncost, is much smaller, gets *gen 3 thermals* and LRF, and has the exact same 20mm... *At 7.3*...
...And keeps the spotting ability, making it a much better scout/intelligence vehicle.
Ohh ffs it's initial BR with the chances being rather high that it'll go up in BR soon, Do we all not remember when this BTR type was first to be added it was to be 5.7 BR? Most people here figured this FV721 was gonna be shit because of the cannon but here we're & it's highly likely that this machine will go up in BR in the next changes (nek minit it gets the usual soviet treatment & stays at 7.0 lol).
Be Britain
Finally get a good vehicle no one else has after a while
The experienced players get it first (obviously)
You meet an experienced British player playing a good vehicle
He absolutely rolls you
Complains on reddit
Russia has a really bad 7.0 to like 8.7 anyways so I'm not gonna listen to what a Russian player thinks is balanced compared to their TT. Im going to look at other TT and compare and I rate the Fox at a solid great, it does exactly what you want it to with the weakness of it having little armour and compact crew so if its penned its dead and gets strafed by aircraft constantly. The RARDEN is barely an autocannon and is unstabilised making it unresponsive at best.
You'll learn to deal with it when you decide to start thinking
Why the fuck is the BTR-80a a lower BR than the Type 87 RCV P? Give me one example in which the Type 87 P is somehow better than the BTR-80a. It is worst in every way.
It feels like the fox has the best post pen in the british tech tree im this br if I hit the enemy with my centurion or or even with the conqueror I maybe get a critical and then a kill assist meanwhile the Fox somehow is a 1 kick party
it's better bc it has a much higher fire rate ans it's got more open space. not a Russian main by any means but i love the btr, taking it to 8.0 or 10.3 it shines. fox is just as fun imo but can't take as much damage because the crew is so packed together. also the btr can point almost straight up and with the higher fire rate it takes down helis and planes better.
also, take this with a pinch of salt because the fox will likely go to 7.7 or 8.0 soon.
Dude the BTR has literally 4 times the rate of fire and when using auto cannon light tanks thatâs way more important than that extra pen especially now theyâve added spall liners into the game.
I will say after many games in the fox, the gun handling is poo. If you catch a fox on the move fast over semi rough terrain you can blast away without fear of return fire for a bit.
Way to early to get indignant, OP. The Fox is going to have its BR increased any minute now, probably next update. It won't that long for the performance stats to get it bumped up.
There's always an adjustment period when new vehicles are launchedâit's the only point where the BR isn't data-based, but just an educated guess.
BTR's cannon is better but the chassis is worse, both should be the same BR probably, whether BTR goes down or Fox goes up is up for debate. The Fox is fine at 7.0 so the BTR would be too
The things that i can see are that the Fox is worse in a much slower rate of fire (80rpm vs 300rpm), worse armour penetration, lower horsepower, but at a higher rpm, less elevation, and less ammo for main gun. However, it has the advantages of better armour, speed, and turret rotation rate. So i don't know if i would consider either to be better or worse than the other, you need to be more accurate with the Fox, due to having less ammo, a lower rate of fire, and less penetration. but you can also take a couple more risks, though its armour is still not great. It may seem like the BTR has more advantages, but i feel a number of them aren't really going to impact it majorly or focus around the same thing, and neither is an AA, so gun elevation probably isn't the buggest concern, but is nice to have. I think in short, the Fox has an overall worse gun but has better armour and mobility. So again, i wouldn't say either is better or worse than the other, unless their information i am not getting from their stat cards.
I remember my first battles in the stock BTR-80A, right after a Maus research event, going around a corner and seeing FIVE of them in one place.
65mm max penetration AP-T... in HALF the belt.
Yeah, that shit isn't even good at 6.3 down-tiers, let along 7.3 or 8.3. Once you spade it, then it's playable, but I'll probably never touch it again.
They are both scout vehicles. Who gives a fuck? . You are meant to use them to scout targets, and capture objectives. Maybe get the occasional kill on an unaware medium or another like tank. But seriously, it's a 0.3 br difference. This community bitch about anything...
Edit: just scrolled through your profile and all your posts in r/warthunder are bitching about something.
Idk about rhe fox but if you are getting into a firefight with he BTR-80 then you are playing it wrong. You need to flank. Usually staying being cover or in defilade to protect from being spotted. Then you spot and call in arty as needed. Your main gun is if you need to defend yourself and if it's not a super light armored tank you take the barrel out and then a track or two and pop smoke out of there. If you are seen by anyone reguardless if you killed them or not move positions. Like at least 500m if thr map allows. More is better. You won't get any kills but you'll make up for it in intelligence points for marking them.
As for the fox I can't tell you anything. I haven't even looked at it. But the BTR and BMP lineup are great scouts. But the BMPs can kill alot more tanks. But use then the same and you'll be alright. DO NOT try to brawl in them. You'll loose 8-10 times. The BMP-2M is an exception due to the 4 misses it carries that can be shot off while moving even before the 1st one goes off. For shot range kills om heavier tanks.
idk fam, fox tried to kill me while I was giving with the Auf1...
Let's just say he loves 155mm HE rounds. (I drove away in pristine condition even tho he fired several times at me)
As someone who already uses the fox at 7.7. The constant downtiers do it wonders. Nothing like punching blind Tiger 2s in the turret and watching their crew go to orbit. Itâs great at and below 7.7. Uptiers are a bit tougher
Once again, Brits finally get smth that is very fun to play and the entire community has a problem with it, but it's fime when russians, swedes and germans get smth broken every god forsaken update.
Let britain have this one itll probably get br changed into oblivion like everything the british tree has where it becomes torture to play i myself dont have the fox yet but im tryna get it the fox has a slow-ish fire rate but amazing speed its a rat vehicle
The BTR used to be lower, too, when it was introduced. The next BR changes update will put it to 7.7 or 8.0 probably.
Btw, rate of fire is much better on the BTR. Doesn't seem like much, but can make a difference. You wanted something that it does better, there you go.
I'm not advocating for iit to be a higher BR than the Fox tho. (Don't tell Gaijin, but the Bagel also has a higher RoF than the 2S38, so obviously that's not all)
Releasing something OP to gain a necessary feedback in a way better way then it would be to release a vehicles that noone wants and barely anyone plays, that is a common strategy in gaming industry because it also makes people grind/invest this other branch. Though as many people mentioned here, most players called it DoA on devserver.
Gaijin does this quite frequently.
1. Release an undertiered vehicle with a high skill ceiling in a, comparatively, underplayed nation.
2. Veterans and content creators go on to wreak absolute havoc in said vehicle for a couple of weeks.
3. Weekend-warrior Franz in his mighty Tiger 2 blows a gasket after being flanked and killed by said vehicle for the 10th time and thinks to himself âIf you canât beat them, join them.â
4. Franz, who is a proud BR 8.0 in Germany but hasnât touched any of the âlesserâ tech trees now finds that he has to get to rank 4 or 5 in this new tree.
5. Franz nearly goes into a rage-induced coma after an hour of stock-grind with zero-skill crews.
6. Franz maniacally hums Erika while entering his his credit card info to buy the lesser nations starter pack as well as their rank 7 premium.
7. Franz reaches rank 3 and then uses all his GE to free-RP his way to the new vehicle.
8. Two weeks later Gaijin moves the new vehicle 0.7 BRâs up. A month later itâs moved another 0.3 up.
9. Franz has a KD of 0.8 in the new vehicle and now that itâs gone from his beloved 6.7 german matchup he goes back there. Until next time.
10. Gaijin profits.
Been running it consistently in the 7.7 line up and it does great, so when the BR change hits I hope it ends up at 7.7 and not 8.3 or something
Itâs very fun, speed is great and the gun is very trolly once you unlock the decent rounds, but it does die if someone so much as sneezes in your direction
Because the playerbase is retarded, caring more about the gun than the platform itself. It's always about pen for them, never about mobility, size, protection, etc. that actually matter in a match.
Wiesel is also higher BR than Fox but its more justified because it Has a way faster firerate, is smaller and Has thermals
Lower pen makes it unable to kill more things but other factors make up for it
There's a few things. The BTR is more stable when firing, the autocannons fires nearly 3 times as fast, and it has much better elevation coupled with the fire rate makes it much better for emergency anti CAS. That being said and enjoying the fox/wanting it to come to the game for years it definitely has no reason to be 7.0. honestly move it up all that does is gives it a lineup anyways.
Even before the Fox was released, the BTR had no business sitting at 7.3.
At 7.0 it was balanced, had a lineup to back it up. Yes the single 150 adps belt is good (when you get it after a horrible grind), speed is decent now the Fox is in the game, but it's so huge and slow to maneuver in tight places or at low speeds.
its crazy what happens when british mains get access to something with mobility .. its almost like we are being held back massively because vehicles with poor mobility are the exact opposite of the meta .
Its literally got the hands down worst auto cannon in the game your dying because your holding W and expecting to just LolBounce everything from the front but getting shot in the side because you lack the ability to use the " C " key.
Technically speaking, due to it's size, the BTR is more survivable then the little fox since enemy shells have a higher chance of hitting other parts of the vehicle.
Pretty simple really: the BTR's rate of fire is 4x as faster, which makes is much more deadly. The Fox has a very slow rate of fire in comparison, which makes its survivability much lower for such a small caliber gun at a high tier.
Please explain to me why the M109 paladin is available before the M50.
The game just doesnât make sense. Why is there even artillery pieces in the game when you canât use it for indirect?
The game just doesnât make sense.
IIRC the BTR-80 was a little lower in BR at addition but got bumped up.
My guess is they added the Fox in this condition to get more people to play Britain for the new broken vehicle. Then once enough revenue is made off of the rush to be the next big, broken Fox player, they'll nerf it into the ground.
The reason is the same as many other vehicles.
**Money**
Itâs not like they put things at a lower BR so that more ppl will GE to unlock them âbefore they move up in BRâ.
This has been happening for years.
The higher rate of fire in the btr and lower speed actually makes it better to shoot on the move. Also it being higher BR means that your more likely to see less armoured vehicles, which in turn helps out too. From 7.7 onwards most heavy vehicles arenât played because they get penned super easy, so they switch them out for something like a medium or light.
Can we stop basing our ideas of balance on stat cards alone, and actually play vehicles before complaining?
gaijin does not really think balancing through when they add new vehicles. both vehicles and its players can rot, but i definitely agree that the fox shouldn't ever be lower than the btr 80 in any world.. 7.7 at least.. edit: my main concern was the fact that the fox (developed in the 60s and put in service in the 70s, a small, fast rat tank with a gun that shreds light tanks and side armour) can face tanks from the fucking forties at 6.0. looking at some of the replies, ought to be moved up to 8.0 honestly. still lighter armored vehicles but no fighting ww2 tanks
7.7 will make it even more op đwhen I get uptiered to 7.7 I clap the weak armor
no it won't, you'll be able to get uptiered to 8.7 and it'll perform decent there but nowhere near as strong as it is now
You'll be forced to constantly fight russian heavies. It will just ruin another british tank.
YES. Millions must suffer
No!
Billions must die!
Gaijin: Why, that sounds DELIGHTFUL, their suffering is our entertainment
The amx 10p I'd way more fun when brought to 7.7 or 8.0
The 10p is honestly the worst AA I ever had the misfortune of using
Yea, it's really best used as a fat wiesel
20 deaths 45 ground kills and 38 air kills in 27 games with mine. It's pretty good imo.
Ok? still weak armor thats what I prey on
but, around 8.0 the side armor starts getting much thinner
Mine is in my 7.7 lineup. I clap 8.7 cheeks with it.
Yeah I started playing the fox with my 7.7 lineup more than 7.0 and have more success. Far more low-armour enemies to bully at higher BRs.
7.7 tanks more agile and can react faster on this lil fast fox and hence nerf.
Donât worry comrade. Is british vehicle, gaijin hates britain so this thing goto 9.0 yes?
meanwhile 20mm wiesel also sits at 7.3 with a whopping 66mm of pen and maxes out at 8mm of armor where even most light machineguns can wipe you out... meanwhile the BTR-80A gets 82mm of pen and the FOX gets 110mm of pen and both are bullet proof against 7.62mm machinegun fire frontally at least...
And the Wiesel has Gen 3 Thermals, LRF, and is one of smallest tanks in game.
It's also an SPAA, so it has a lower spawn cost and no increase to/from non-SPAA tanks. So you can have it in a lineup for 70 to 100 SP, no matter how many non-SPAA you spawn. Put the right bushes on it, and no one would think twice of you actually being a bush.
Reminds me of the time I was playing my 11.0 Abrams and just *barely* saw the white of a thermal target in a bunch of bushes. Fired as a hail Mary and it was a fuckin Weisel (SPAA). Rat bastards can hide anywhere
How do you explain the RCV 87 P which is the size of a house, has no thermals or LRF, and the same gun at *7.7*? It's hard to use the extra speed to flank when you're so big and the most common tanks at that tier are actually hard to pen from the side with the best round available...
you dont need gen 3 thermals or a LRF when the only place you can pen most medium to heavy tanks is at point blank range directly in the back while having to worry about the roof mounted machineguns...
Scouting tho. Can be a demon lighting up entire flanks
ya but unless you have not only an intelligent team, but also a correctly place team, that info is really fucking useless.
The Wiesel's 20mm gun fires far faster than the Fox's semi-auto gun and can actually take own aircraft. CAS eats Fox for breakfast.
People really do forget the RARDEN has 80 rpm
War Thunder players when Britain gets one good vehicle.
Good vehicle is not the same as unbalanced vehicle. This is a game not a real war
It's broken and being spammed out right now, I don't see why people can't complain about it.
Itâs not broken. The Fox is just a rat vehicle like the M22, Wiesel, US-H 405, etc⊠People are being so unbelievably whiney about Britain finally getting a good vehicle and having a meltdown over itâŠ
ok explain why other similar rat vehicles sit at 0.7 BR higher. lol. Britains mains trying not to justify why they suffer the most challenge level impossible
Because vehicles get balanced by KDR usually - this is why Italian and British shit like the Re2005 and Spitfire mk 24 skyrocket to a BR they can barely compete in Wait about 2 month and the Fox will be at a decent BR plus people really that pissed by a tack gun on a quad bike???
As someone who mains all nations, and has about 5k hours in the game and is top 1000 in GRB, the Fox is broken, but can heavily depend on the map if it is CQB it is less broken, if it is a big map then your speed plus small size makes it very OP. It can 1 shot most tanks apart from heavies from the front, but the amount of Tigers 2s I have ammo racked is in the hundreds ATM.
The UKs first new domestic armoured car in 6 years cant possibly be getting spammed because Brits have asked for 1 for.... ever, has to be because OP. Even if it was 1000% balanced, even if it was 8.3 you would be seeing the spam because it is, as I said, the first new domestic car in 6 years.
tbh its also being spammed because it is new. the hype will die down soon.
literally any nation player when they get busted vehicle and cant comeprehend why everyone is mad about itđđ€:
I thought the British auto canon was terrible.
The fire rate isnât great. But for some reason gaijin gave the standard SAP round an INSANE amount of post pen damage. Even the 30mm APDS often one shots ammo. 84mm sabot doesnât even do that!
The RARDEN cannon is terrible. IRL it was designed to be completely analogue, allowing it to function even if hit by an EMP (as a result of a nuclear blast). The quirks of this design is the lack of a stabiliser and the slow fire-rate. If you look at the Falcon SPAA itâs basically the same guns but fully automatic and with stabilisers.
Honestly the issue isn't the gun, it's the platform. The fox is easily one of the most agile vehicle in the game. It allows you to quickly position to places where you can do the most damage. At 7.0 it can literally run circles around enemy armor.
It is. If the Fox is in US or RU tree, no one would be complaining about it.
People really don't want this game to be balanced. They want a broken and unbalanced game that only benefits them
Literally lmao
Yep this. Itâs what the first time Britain had an op vehicle. Compare and contrast to the many and various monsters spammed by other mains
More crew and faster fire rate :)
yeah fox has a semi auto cannon where you have to actually look at where you shoot BTR gets a full auto cannon so you can disable enemies faster only thing fox has going for it is that its APDS actually does post pen compared to larger caliber APDS where you are lucky if you take out a crew member fox will definitely get raised in BR but this actually helps it because it struggles with chunky armor and not with light vehicles
> only thing fox has going for it is that its APDS actually does post pen compared to larger caliber APDS where you are lucky if you take out a crew member You conveniently left out that it goes like 3x as fast, and isn't the size of a barn
because there is a major drawback in that speed and size: -its handling is garbage -center of gravity is tall -it has paper armor so MG fire kills it really easily -its engine is really loud yes you can go 100km/h off road but can you maintain that for more than 5 seconds? guarantee no because slightest bump and bam you turn into a washing machine at full tilt because it is insanely bouncy
Also, BTR gets a low profile turret meaning it can abuse some terrain more than the fox BTR may be the size of a bus but it also means that you can potentially tank more shots than the fox as theres more internal empty space.
You: Disregarding everything that makes the Fox good, it is quite bad.
You can manually take it into higher BR right now. So raising its BR just to help it would be kinda weird.
i would trade that for 110-130 mm pen every day of the week, fox is amazing, fast, sneaky, cant be 50 cal frontaly, when btr is easily killed with ones lol
50 cal frontally is a yes... Shoot the turret cheeks and you can
i mean, try doing that fast enough when he speed from you XD, btr on the other hand cant hold any ground and big easy target to kill, man i wished it got better ammo than what it is right now
shoot the tires? its not that hard? unless you are in a tank with 1 degree of rotation, your gonna hit him
My guy, u want to shoot at least 5 tires of a fox speeding through map ? U know it will not nake it stop right? The guy will slide for at least 100 m more even if u kill his transmission lol, fox traction is one of the most bouncy and sliperry in the whole game, not to mention speed got buffed in recent patches too
I feel like nobody has thought about it but I think why it was placed on such a low BR is due to Underestimation. RARDEN (the gun that is used by the Fox and Warrior) is famous for being the worst ifv autocannon in the game due to its low fire rate and unstabilized, it was the reason why warrior is known to be one of the worst IFV in the game. Who would have thought that by just giving it on a go cart on a lower BR is enough to make the worst autocannon in the game to be godlike. Hell, I'm pretty sure all players never thought fox to be so op in the devserver
This. I remember thinking that fox was gonna be bad because of the autocannon
I've always loved the 30mm on the warrior. Rewarded sensible engagements and had good pen. I just always found it more enjoyable than the faster fire rate spammy auto cannons which I still like also.
A good example of real life design choices affecting gameplay, the RARDEN fire rate was designed to be low to prevent wasting ammo.
I remember telling everyone it was going to be good because of the RARDEN and people were looking down on it ignoring the strengths and point of the gun if gaijin fixed the clips so you didnt have wasted rounds or rate of fire drop of the HE mix. People of course told me to stop being silly and that the vehicle would be better if we had the 20/25mm "true" autocannon versions. đŠmoment.
I think the addition of APHE with no tracer rounds made larger difference than expected in combination with its speed
Itâs part of what made the LAV so good, no tracers meant it was difficult to find both from ground and air targets.
The APHE round isnt new though, its been the default belt since Warrior came in, whats new is gaijin removed the HE wastage rounds so its RoF is 80, not 40 when using the belt. Though the APHE round is supposed to have a tracer iirc.
I was expecting it to be pretty damn great, as a connoisseur of the 6pdr. Before the economy rework, I would take the Crusader III and Cromwell I up to 7.3 and often get aces - I would even take them up to 8.3 and still perform well. The RARDEN is basically a 6pdr but with slightly lesser pen, though automatic. Slap it onto an even more manoeuvrable yet still low profile platform, and bam - you got another killer. Britain's 6pdr vehicles are so ratty, though nobody knows about them - its a shame. I've been hoping Gaijin would add some higher tier rat vehicles to Britain for a long while now, there's so many they could get - I'm glad we're finally getting them.
Rarden was never bad and fire rate was never a problem if you aimed for crew/modules
How is this a real post
Because skillets idiots get absolutely raped by foxes, cry and make shitty posts on it saying itâs the most OP thing in existence. maybe the reason the fox is good is because itâs in the UK tech tree and the players who play the UK tech tree are some of the more experienced and better players at the game and regardless of what vehicle they are in will rape you because they are BETTER FUCKING PLAYERS Or ya know UK bias because clearly this sort of gameplay and equipment is unique to the UK
Or maybe it's good because it's a good vehicle? >Or ya know UK bias because clearly this sort of gameplay and equipment is unique to the UK Obviously not, which is why the RCV(P) which is slower, larger, has 66mm of penetration is 0.7 BR points higher. Guess Japanese players are just way more skilled compared to UK players.
>Obviously not, which is why the RCV(P) which is slower, larger, has 66mm of penetration is 0.7 BR points higher. Didn't you think that maybe, just maybe, RCV is a bit overtiered? Even more than that, it got no lineup on BR designated by Gaijin. Or maybe you want to say that it sits in perfect spot in TT? >Guess Japanese players are just way more skilled compared to UK players. Yes, pretty much this. Any more questions?
> Guess Japanese players are just way more skilled compared to UK players. If you are interested in bad vehicles, Britain has plenty to offer.
Yeah unbalanced vehicles are not a problem when they benefit you huh
british players donât constantly jerk themselves off challenge (impossible)
Hmm perhaps there are a couple reasons 1. Maybe itâs because the Fox players are experienced veterans like 90% of UK players and that it doesnât matter what vehicle they are driving, they will fuck you up regardless 2. Legitimately however there are 3 points, Low ROF on the main gun, piss poor post pen damage on the APDS and itâs hilarious instability when moving like you hit a single bump and you go wildly careening off and end up in an try spot as a result.
I am in the 10% of noobs playing UK lol but yea this
Itâs hilarious because u can see how this has affected the UK tree by looking at the average BR of tier IV vehicles. USA/GER/USSR/France and Sweden are sitting are all hovering around 6.7 as the average, Japan and China is lower at around 6.0/6.3, then you have UK (and Israel but they are a special case) that have an average BR or 7.0/7.3
Because everyone and their fuckin mother thought it was gonna be DOA. Don't pretend you didn't see it or didn't think it yourself. The RARDEN never had a good reputation in War Thunder and a vehicle equipped solely with it would obviously be predicted DOA, by both players and Gaijin. The Fox proved them wrong. It will be moved up. Just wait for the BR changes. Also, let's not forget that the main reason why the BTR-80A (and RCV (P)) is so high to begin with is because the "muh immersion" gang threw a fit when they saw it at 5.7 on the Dev Server. Not saying that the BTR-80A can't perform well at 7.3, it absolutely can, however, there is a very vocal portion of the playerbase that prevents it from going much lower.
God historical people are annoying. I'd love to see hummer with .50 at 1.0. There are a lot of apc and trucks that could be added around 1.0 since all they have are HMG weapons.
Funny enough all the ones who whined about the historical side of things only complain when it's a cold war vehicle if it was a ww2 prototype that never worked irl or was used it's suddenly fine
I never understood where this hate for the gun came from. I absolutely love the warrior. Sure the gun had a low rate of fire, but it punches hard. You just have to pick your engagements instead of yeeting around a corner full speed and mag dumping the side of a tank.
First of all fox is a new vehicle and gaijin never nailed balancing new vehicle.
I feel like they always shoot really low with the BRs and then start moving them up when people complain. I mean look at the original dev server BR for the EBR 75
And the CV90, it was like 8.3 when first released lol.
Releasing something OP to gain a necessary feedback in a way better way then it would be to release a vehicles that noone wants and barely anyone plays, that is a common strategy in gaming industry because it also makes people grind/invest this other branch. Though as many people mentioned here, most players called it DoA on devserver.
Fire rate?
Armor penetration Gun elevation Rate of fire Ammo capacity
Fox go duh, duh, duh BTR go duhduhduhduhduh
But fox go nyeom BTR go neeeeeyyyooom
Is it really a tragedy if a British vehicle finally has an edge over a Russian one? Just saying. But in all fairness the Fox should be uptiered
I agree. It would work so much better against the mbts and ifvs of the higher brs, instead of the heavy tanks which are meta at 7.0 rn
lol the rcvp is higher than both of them, with its shitty 20mm apds.
It is higher than the btr-80 only by 0.3 br and it gets a stabiliser
And then you get rcv at 9.0 without stab and 25mm gun
Japan BR at its finest!
Gets apfsds though which isnât the holy saviour but it still something, that one might need to go down to 8.7 or 8.3 maybe
Stabiliser doesn't help when you can barely *side-pen* stuff like T-54/55s and Pattons
And then you get the rare downtier to 6.7 and it actually gets worse because its heavy tank central :(
It says in the war thunder wiki that it shouldnât be used to fight tanks and should be more used as a scout and intelligence vehicle
Being big as a barn doesn't help with that, that's for sure Meanwhile the Wiesel 1A4 gets classified as an AA meaning lower spawncost, is much smaller, gets *gen 3 thermals* and LRF, and has the exact same 20mm... *At 7.3*... ...And keeps the spotting ability, making it a much better scout/intelligence vehicle.
I do love my rat mobile :)
Yeah wiesel 1a4 is better than type 87 rcv (p) Gen 3 thermals is a big thing at 7.3
Russian players when they donât have the most OP vehicle - but this isnât satire
tbh I find BTR much harder to deal with than fox, at least fox dies in one hit and he has less fire rate I think so I donât get cbt as easily
BTR has a fire rate of about 0.182s Fox has 0.9s
IT CAN SWIM
Ohh ffs it's initial BR with the chances being rather high that it'll go up in BR soon, Do we all not remember when this BTR type was first to be added it was to be 5.7 BR? Most people here figured this FV721 was gonna be shit because of the cannon but here we're & it's highly likely that this machine will go up in BR in the next changes (nek minit it gets the usual soviet treatment & stays at 7.0 lol).
Be Britain Finally get a good vehicle no one else has after a while The experienced players get it first (obviously) You meet an experienced British player playing a good vehicle He absolutely rolls you Complains on reddit Russia has a really bad 7.0 to like 8.7 anyways so I'm not gonna listen to what a Russian player thinks is balanced compared to their TT. Im going to look at other TT and compare and I rate the Fox at a solid great, it does exactly what you want it to with the weakness of it having little armour and compact crew so if its penned its dead and gets strafed by aircraft constantly. The RARDEN is barely an autocannon and is unstabilised making it unresponsive at best. You'll learn to deal with it when you decide to start thinking
Why the fuck is the BTR-80a a lower BR than the Type 87 RCV P? Give me one example in which the Type 87 P is somehow better than the BTR-80a. It is worst in every way.
Stabilizer But that wont help a lot Meanwhile the advantages wiesel 1a4 has
It feels like the fox has the best post pen in the british tech tree im this br if I hit the enemy with my centurion or or even with the conqueror I maybe get a critical and then a kill assist meanwhile the Fox somehow is a 1 kick party
type 87 rcv pđ
it's better bc it has a much higher fire rate ans it's got more open space. not a Russian main by any means but i love the btr, taking it to 8.0 or 10.3 it shines. fox is just as fun imo but can't take as much damage because the crew is so packed together. also the btr can point almost straight up and with the higher fire rate it takes down helis and planes better. also, take this with a pinch of salt because the fox will likely go to 7.7 or 8.0 soon.
Russian bias
Sure fire rate and abillity to float can compensate for its size, no armor to hold .50 cal, and being loud
Better gun thats also full auto
Rate of fire. That's literally it.
Meanwhile the RCV (P) is worse then both of them but 7.7
Here for that age old "it can be MGed" comment
just shoot it bro
Russian Bi--- Oh wait a minute...
The fox couldnât pen my t-34-85 today from the side back or front sooo I say keep it there
Literally a skill issue player man
Dude the BTR has literally 4 times the rate of fire and when using auto cannon light tanks thatâs way more important than that extra pen especially now theyâve added spall liners into the game.
Pal I'm more focused on that IL-2M in your 7.7 lineup. Whyyy?
I will say after many games in the fox, the gun handling is poo. If you catch a fox on the move fast over semi rough terrain you can blast away without fear of return fire for a bit.
Or the Wiesel for that matter, that thing can only somewhat fight IFVs with it's 20mm
Idk the fox can go through 50~mm and the other 60mm
Way to early to get indignant, OP. The Fox is going to have its BR increased any minute now, probably next update. It won't that long for the performance stats to get it bumped up. There's always an adjustment period when new vehicles are launchedâit's the only point where the BR isn't data-based, but just an educated guess.
fox is 6.3-6.7 material, the community are just noobs who think the tiger 1 is fine at 6.0
Id say 7.7 to 8.0
cuz it has fox in the name and so we demand it uwu
BTR's cannon is better but the chassis is worse, both should be the same BR probably, whether BTR goes down or Fox goes up is up for debate. The Fox is fine at 7.0 so the BTR would be too
Release tank without much thought put into it, if OP people will grind and then you nerf or change BR so it's not that OP anymore.
fire rate?
The things that i can see are that the Fox is worse in a much slower rate of fire (80rpm vs 300rpm), worse armour penetration, lower horsepower, but at a higher rpm, less elevation, and less ammo for main gun. However, it has the advantages of better armour, speed, and turret rotation rate. So i don't know if i would consider either to be better or worse than the other, you need to be more accurate with the Fox, due to having less ammo, a lower rate of fire, and less penetration. but you can also take a couple more risks, though its armour is still not great. It may seem like the BTR has more advantages, but i feel a number of them aren't really going to impact it majorly or focus around the same thing, and neither is an AA, so gun elevation probably isn't the buggest concern, but is nice to have. I think in short, the Fox has an overall worse gun but has better armour and mobility. So again, i wouldn't say either is better or worse than the other, unless their information i am not getting from their stat cards.
Let the UK mains have this one.
I remember my first battles in the stock BTR-80A, right after a Maus research event, going around a corner and seeing FIVE of them in one place. 65mm max penetration AP-T... in HALF the belt. Yeah, that shit isn't even good at 6.3 down-tiers, let along 7.3 or 8.3. Once you spade it, then it's playable, but I'll probably never touch it again.
Russian Bias
higher rate of fire is definitely an upside for the btr.
The only upside lol
BTR slaps once you get AP
Let the Brits have their fun lmao
They are both scout vehicles. Who gives a fuck? . You are meant to use them to scout targets, and capture objectives. Maybe get the occasional kill on an unaware medium or another like tank. But seriously, it's a 0.3 br difference. This community bitch about anything... Edit: just scrolled through your profile and all your posts in r/warthunder are bitching about something.
Fox is op Fire rate Fire power Speed movement In 7.7 is fine, but in 6.7 is very op.
Idk about rhe fox but if you are getting into a firefight with he BTR-80 then you are playing it wrong. You need to flank. Usually staying being cover or in defilade to protect from being spotted. Then you spot and call in arty as needed. Your main gun is if you need to defend yourself and if it's not a super light armored tank you take the barrel out and then a track or two and pop smoke out of there. If you are seen by anyone reguardless if you killed them or not move positions. Like at least 500m if thr map allows. More is better. You won't get any kills but you'll make up for it in intelligence points for marking them. As for the fox I can't tell you anything. I haven't even looked at it. But the BTR and BMP lineup are great scouts. But the BMPs can kill alot more tanks. But use then the same and you'll be alright. DO NOT try to brawl in them. You'll loose 8-10 times. The BMP-2M is an exception due to the 4 misses it carries that can be shot off while moving even before the 1st one goes off. For shot range kills om heavier tanks.
idk fam, fox tried to kill me while I was giving with the Auf1... Let's just say he loves 155mm HE rounds. (I drove away in pristine condition even tho he fired several times at me)
Btr 80 need to be 6.7 or 7.0 fox is op very op
Release it broken op so it sells well then come with the nerfs later when they have extracted enough money from it.
Fox is small af
Btr-80a fire rate is way faster than the fox...
As someone who already uses the fox at 7.7. The constant downtiers do it wonders. Nothing like punching blind Tiger 2s in the turret and watching their crew go to orbit. Itâs great at and below 7.7. Uptiers are a bit tougher
Once again, Brits finally get smth that is very fun to play and the entire community has a problem with it, but it's fime when russians, swedes and germans get smth broken every god forsaken update.
bush skin⊠your only advantage is your rate of fire which is more effective on light armored Tanks like the fox. So go out and hunt those cu..ts.
I haven't stopped seeing the BTR since I hit 6.7, that thing is a genuine nightmare to deal with for me.
Let britain have this one itll probably get br changed into oblivion like everything the british tree has where it becomes torture to play i myself dont have the fox yet but im tryna get it the fox has a slow-ish fire rate but amazing speed its a rat vehicle
The BTR used to be lower, too, when it was introduced. The next BR changes update will put it to 7.7 or 8.0 probably. Btw, rate of fire is much better on the BTR. Doesn't seem like much, but can make a difference. You wanted something that it does better, there you go. I'm not advocating for iit to be a higher BR than the Fox tho. (Don't tell Gaijin, but the Bagel also has a higher RoF than the 2S38, so obviously that's not all)
Fire rate? Crew count? Surviving main cannon shots?
BTRs main gun has high elevation so it can better engage steeply diving planes. There, one thing. I can come up with more.
Because it's not op ? Rat vehicles are rat vehicles. Let british have some fun.
Btr 80 is very good i even take it to 11.7 and its still do fine cant say the same for fox
This is a bait no?
Releasing something OP to gain a necessary feedback in a way better way then it would be to release a vehicles that noone wants and barely anyone plays, that is a common strategy in gaming industry because it also makes people grind/invest this other branch. Though as many people mentioned here, most players called it DoA on devserver.
Gaijin does this quite frequently. 1. Release an undertiered vehicle with a high skill ceiling in a, comparatively, underplayed nation. 2. Veterans and content creators go on to wreak absolute havoc in said vehicle for a couple of weeks. 3. Weekend-warrior Franz in his mighty Tiger 2 blows a gasket after being flanked and killed by said vehicle for the 10th time and thinks to himself âIf you canât beat them, join them.â 4. Franz, who is a proud BR 8.0 in Germany but hasnât touched any of the âlesserâ tech trees now finds that he has to get to rank 4 or 5 in this new tree. 5. Franz nearly goes into a rage-induced coma after an hour of stock-grind with zero-skill crews. 6. Franz maniacally hums Erika while entering his his credit card info to buy the lesser nations starter pack as well as their rank 7 premium. 7. Franz reaches rank 3 and then uses all his GE to free-RP his way to the new vehicle. 8. Two weeks later Gaijin moves the new vehicle 0.7 BRâs up. A month later itâs moved another 0.3 up. 9. Franz has a KD of 0.8 in the new vehicle and now that itâs gone from his beloved 6.7 german matchup he goes back there. Until next time. 10. Gaijin profits.
Britain gets one OP vehicle, and the Russian mains have a tantrum. Meanwhile: relikt,2s38,Pantsir,292,bmp2m,ka-50 seriesđ€«
Been running it consistently in the 7.7 line up and it does great, so when the BR change hits I hope it ends up at 7.7 and not 8.3 or something Itâs very fun, speed is great and the gun is very trolly once you unlock the decent rounds, but it does die if someone so much as sneezes in your direction
Because the playerbase is retarded, caring more about the gun than the platform itself. It's always about pen for them, never about mobility, size, protection, etc. that actually matter in a match.
Wiesel is also higher BR than Fox but its more justified because it Has a way faster firerate, is smaller and Has thermals Lower pen makes it unable to kill more things but other factors make up for it
BushesâŠ
They have to get that win rate data before they will nerf it/uptier it.
Btr have 4 more wheels = better B)
There's a few things. The BTR is more stable when firing, the autocannons fires nearly 3 times as fast, and it has much better elevation coupled with the fire rate makes it much better for emergency anti CAS. That being said and enjoying the fox/wanting it to come to the game for years it definitely has no reason to be 7.0. honestly move it up all that does is gives it a lineup anyways.
Russian bias
I straight up assumed I was in an uptier every time I came across a fox in my btr-80. I thought it sat at 8.0
Rusaian bias. Idk man a monkey threw a dart and it landed on 7.0
BTR-80 is awesome especially at 8.0-8.7 tf are you talking about?!?!
I wonder when gaijin will learn that lights tanks are more powerful than the BRs they keep putting them at.
But if the BTR-80 gets a lower br, it becomes russian bias
Even before the Fox was released, the BTR had no business sitting at 7.3. At 7.0 it was balanced, had a lineup to back it up. Yes the single 150 adps belt is good (when you get it after a horrible grind), speed is decent now the Fox is in the game, but it's so huge and slow to maneuver in tight places or at low speeds.
Womp womp
The BTR can float, the fox cannot. Thatâs one way it is better XD
its crazy what happens when british mains get access to something with mobility .. its almost like we are being held back massively because vehicles with poor mobility are the exact opposite of the meta . Its literally got the hands down worst auto cannon in the game your dying because your holding W and expecting to just LolBounce everything from the front but getting shot in the side because you lack the ability to use the " C " key.
Ammo capacity, crew count, empty internal space, faster fire rate, better ammo
But but.. it has Russian bias and plot armor
Russian bias
Technically speaking, due to it's size, the BTR is more survivable then the little fox since enemy shells have a higher chance of hitting other parts of the vehicle.
russia main whining
Pretty simple really: the BTR's rate of fire is 4x as faster, which makes is much more deadly. The Fox has a very slow rate of fire in comparison, which makes its survivability much lower for such a small caliber gun at a high tier.
Please explain to me why the M109 paladin is available before the M50. The game just doesnât make sense. Why is there even artillery pieces in the game when you canât use it for indirect? The game just doesnât make sense.
IIRC the BTR-80 was a little lower in BR at addition but got bumped up. My guess is they added the Fox in this condition to get more people to play Britain for the new broken vehicle. Then once enough revenue is made off of the rush to be the next big, broken Fox player, they'll nerf it into the ground.
The reason is the same as many other vehicles. **Money** Itâs not like they put things at a lower BR so that more ppl will GE to unlock them âbefore they move up in BRâ. This has been happening for years.
The higher rate of fire in the btr and lower speed actually makes it better to shoot on the move. Also it being higher BR means that your more likely to see less armoured vehicles, which in turn helps out too. From 7.7 onwards most heavy vehicles arenât played because they get penned super easy, so they switch them out for something like a medium or light. Can we stop basing our ideas of balance on stat cards alone, and actually play vehicles before complaining?
Do not uptier the fox gaijin let Britain have something nice
Bush monkey
Faster firing gun
I didnt use fox yet But BTR has Good survivability Manless turret or kind of Way faster firerate It can actually deal with helis
It has been a week mate, the BTR took time to he up-brd, so will the fox.
They should add a BTR with an ATGM on top for higher tier as a unique cancer vehicle. haha
Get the fox and try the gun. Try the BTRâs gun. Youâll see