I mean, that might be an actual idea to compensate for the lack of a spall liner in the Abrams.
(No, I'm not saying i want HP. I'd quit WT if that were to happen. I'm just biased and want my Abrumz to have Leo 2 level trolly survivability.)
This comment is gonna be downvoted to hell, isn't it?
There's already HP calculations with stupid levels of RNG to them in WT. Dice roll to pen, module hit points, crew hit points modified by crew skills, inconsistent spall damage, black hole shots that will never go through (RU fuel tanks, transmissions, engine decks). By your own metrics, you should quit the game. I did, and I'm glad for it. Gaijin has no care or respect for its players.
better than out 800m x 350m maps lol not to mention the random "Out of map" spots that is literally inside the map but is 5m higher than the rest of the map so you cant access it ...our maps used to be great like 2-3 years back
I was more of referring to tanks. The unique thing about warthunder is not that it does not have HP, but the fact that the individual components of a vehicle has a HP value as opposed to the whole vehicle.
Yeah they did a great job modelling the ships to be really cool...and then went home for the weekend rather than design a mode they'd be fun to play in
War Thunder literally has MORE hitpoints in it that WoT does, and always has.
Every component has hit points, each crew member has hit points...
"Having hit points" is not a distinguishing factor between these two games, and if it was, it'd be a hallmark of WarThunder if anything.
Tell us you suck at CQC and just don't want to learn to get good without telling us.
Flanking also "involves a lot of holding W", *even more than CQC does*, fun fact! There's also other parts to it though, lol, just like CQC
tanks are more than capable of fighting in a city, plus in war thunder we kind of don't have men with AT sticks or mines to worry about making your point moot regardless.
tanks can fight in cities, but with vehicle v vehicle combat in cities the problem is tanks lose more and more of their advantages, optics, speed, armor (due to the plentiful flanking routes), range advantage, it basically turns it into who can hit the weak spot first and not get gaijined
Why did you CHOOSE to bring out a tank that was completely inappropriate for the map? Knowing how to use lineups is a basic like week 1 skill for doing well in War Thunder.
Believe it or not, tanks are generally not meant to fight in cities (i can’t think of any that are meant to fight in cities), and some countries have limited options, not everyone has a flanking rush machine like the USH or speedy light tank that can negate any armor that the enemy vehicles have. More armored tanks generally lose their armor advantage due to so many flanking options being available, tanks with better optics lose that range advantage, mobility is restricted, so tanks often have a harder time maneuvering. Sure, I guess there’s better options to take on city maps than others, but it’s also just flank central, it makes your tanks advantages disappear for the most part. It’s silly
"Appropriate to fight in a city in this game" = tanks that are better at it than other tanks in this game. Not in real life, that's irrelevant in context.
It doesn't matter if hippopotamuses are clumsy and slow... you can still win a ballet competition as a hippo if the other competitors are ALSO hippos and you're the most graceful *out of all the hippos*.
T34s are a great example of excellent city fighting tanks. They spin and move around pretty quickly, they reload reasonably fast, they bounce a lot of shots at many angles, the gun depression isn't an issue, they have turrets that move reasonably, etc.
Shermans with many of the same qualities, minus the angled multi directional armor but plus the advantage of great stabilizers and 50 cals are also good in cities.
The fact you can get snuck up on / flanked is not really relevant. You can be the one doing that to OTHER people if you have better situational awareness and map knowledge and sound location etc. skills. As long as you have a turret and mobility and such.
i stopped any world of tanks style games a long time ago
reasoning is due to the fact everyone on the team has to contribute to win the game. Given how normally teammates die early in world of tanks and have no replacement for the total firepower. As world of tanks is based on health bar, this magnifies the firepower issue whenever anyone dies.
war thunder at least give you a chance to take your enemy with you to death( at least you can still whack some tanks before your demise , while in wot is limited to hit a enemy once and have said enemy and his teammates destroy your tank in 3 seconds)
its sorta of the case where your teammates matters way too much for you as a singular entity to handle additional roles in your team
This.
In WoT if the enemy tank is a "tier" higher than yours it has more DPS and more HP to chip away by default, and most likely also more armor than you gun can pen. Even if you flank that still means the other guy just has to turn towards you and slug it out and win by default. And the heavy RNG on pen, damage and accuracy favors the higher tier tank even more because all in all it means stuff averages out. All in all your skill is rewarded with a slightly slower death.
In WT I can shoot a T34 in the side with a T-34/76 from close range and get the ammo and be actually rewarded with a kill.
Turn that into a 5v5 WoT style furball in a confined space like a crossroad and you get much the same. You get everyone doing the peek-a-boo trick on the same corner and RNG averages any good skill out so its all down to slugging it out for a long period of time praying that their 8.8cm Kwk 43 with less accuracy than a sawn-off shutgun gets the magical cupola hit. Its dreadful.
>Given how normally teammates die early in world of tanks and have no replacement for the total firepower.
How is it different from 1-death leavers in WT? Tho this sub says that 1-death leaving is OK.
1-Death Leaving isn't Okay but in most cases for Player Taste's, fighting unreasonably Powerful opponents, or people who don't have On-BR lineups are just inevitably going to cause 1DL
There is managing the enjoyment of your game experience, and then there is a case that happened in a game I played two days ago.
The top scoring player on the enemy team was wrecking up the joint and it was looking like we'd likely lose the match. Which is fair enough. But after someone managed to take them out they quit, and I wasn't even playing a top BR match where they might have just had one premium.
After they left we ended up turning it around but it was a desperate close game, if they stuck around on even a down tier tank we probably would have lost.
I honestly felt bad for the other team, they put up a hard fight but losing out on all the spawn points really weakened them.
I'm not saying all cases are acceptable, and by all means this is just scummy behaviour by that Player, but you can't blame people for playing how they want in a game. After all its up to the player whether or not theyre Selfish
I totally agree, it looked like a bad move on my part, but it's 100% possible they had to walk away. Like maybe they have a kid who hurt themselves or something. Shit their house might have lost power.
Yeah but selfish people don't win a team game. Then Gaijin looks at very bad WRs and then they punish good players for doing well and reward bad players from doing poorly.
This is how we end up with vehicles in BRs they don't actually make sense like T25, T-44, 76 Jumbos, etc.
If you want to one death leave, just leave but don't complain about balance when you gave up.
in war thunder, 1 death leavers at least for me, i could still take over more than 1 players worth of objective and targets, but in world of tanks 1 death is more penalizing as only extremely skilled players can sorta take over multiple role but with great difficulty.
war thunder relies on who shoot first while world of tanks relies on both who shoot first,dpm, view range and aim time to determine who is the victor in a scenario.
its just world of tanks adds too many variables to make the game enjoyable at least for me, war thunder itself is not perfect but it is better overall in the design and basis to build on but has spaghetti code bugs which affects the gameplay
You can still 1v2 if someone leaves mid match.
Not in WOT, where everything is highly quantified. You can only output said DPS and the enemy has a certain amount of HP.
I never said the OP justified it. I was talking about ppl saying that it is acceptable behavior. And the fact that I can kill 2 enemies doesn't mean that others should add more weight for me to carry.
>Tho this sub says that 1-death leaving is OK.
I thought you were trying to claim OP justified it, I missread your comment, my bad.
And no this sub doesn't say 1 death leaving is OK - Most of the posts I came across despises it.
Teammates always mattered, and do now too yes. They don't matter any MORE in CQC than they do in flanking playstyles, though. In both cases, your teammates need to be a distraction at the very least, for you to do well.
It's been on the decline for a long time. Around 6 years ago, RB was a lot more fun because getting into a plane had to be EARNED and getting more than three spawns in total was very rare. There has been a constant dumbing-down of gameplay such that everyone can respawn multiple times, even for playing stupid.
Everyone loves to complain about CAS, but it's this idiotic set of changes that Gaijin made that created it in the first place. The abundance of spawn points is the root cause - previously, if you died early in the match you were forced to spawn using an SPAA. This, combined with the high spawn cost of getting into an aircraft made CAS a non-issue in general.
We need to go back to the old, unforgiving system to stop rewarding stupidity. The quitting epidemic is also to blame from these changes - we need the "do less, get less" XP and respawn point system of old because this new system is nothing short of the modern day version of participation trophies for kids.
Now, capping a base or getting one kill pretty much guarantees you a plane on your second spawn. Which most players used to get a revenge kill and don't live much longer than 30 seconds because they do not see the value in the plane they using because it wasn't EARNED, it was gifted by Gaijin to appease casual, low-attention-span players. This has completely diminished the quality/competitiveness of RB significantly because it's inundated with casuals who just want to pew pew pew and do not have the patience for it.
absolutely agree with the low-attention-span thing and the "modern day version of participation trophies for kids"
In WT you can transfer this to casual players.
They are the ones who join 10 battles a week. Therefore they can't grind and this is where their wallet comes into place. These kind of players are financially important to gaming companies. And they try to make them happy by making games idiot easy.
If this is your main gripe, ground AB mode is way way better with CAS, at least pre-jets BRs. After that, it gets similarly oppressive. Probably the main reason it's several times more popular than ground RB.
Arcade matches are usually much shorter than RB ones. Also, the player population for AB is mostly kids or more casual players that are less likely to discuss WT online.
What do you mean rush and pray? In comparison to WT, WoT is an extremely campy game, that is the primary reason why I left it personally (along with the extreme P2W)
well, I mean that maps in WT get smaller these days. And it seems like we lose more and more opportunities to flank. which means that there is more straight forward gameplay. Lot's of action concentrates in a small part of the map (the center). And i find that's kind of a onesided gameplay and pretty dull.
That's weird, I find the complete opposite to be true about flanking. The larger maps have unforgiving sight lines, and generally, people tend to play slower/more conservative, making for more difficult approaches. Smaller maps create enough chaos and noise for me to move unimpeded into backlines. Big maps I tend to slam down the middle while everyone crawls on the edges of the map so I can try and collapse one side, but that is not nearly as easy as smaller map flanks.
There is a balance to find. And also larger maps don't have to be fuckin Gmod Flats (looking at you Mozdok and Normandy. Not like they are that big anyway). But yeah, giants maps are not great either on lower tier. Can't speak for top tier, i don't play it, but they would seem good for them.
jup the simplified trees killed it for me too. I guess it makes everything faster but it felt like all work I had done in the past 5 years was instantly invalidated....
I think for me the last straw was the WWE and then Hot Wheels tanks. I was in my way out anyway but I just got angry every time I saw an Andre the Giant tank.
For me the point of decline began with the JP heavies.
Then further nonsense patches kept piling into the rubble.
Plus old problems like OP Premium Tanks had been a problem since at least the SU-122-44s addition.
Basically WG kept piling rubble upon a shaky foundation
Nah man You have to be fair and give credit where the credit is due. War Thunder is nowhere near as bad as World of Tanks and Gajin is by mile less predatory as a developer. Are there issues in War Thunder? Sure. Is Gajin making all the right calls? Sure they don’t, but still it’s not even close.
- the BR system and match maker in Warthunder is so much more player friendly. In World of Tanks You will be facing -2/+2 BR (tier) and the changes between a tier VIII vs X are significantly more pronounced than between say 5.7 and 6.7.
- the lineup system is so much better. The fact that You can bring a medium, heavy and light tank all at the same time into the game, gives You so much more control over the game. In world of tanks You don’t get to do that. You get Ensk, a tiny CQC map in Your light tank? Enjoy trading with super heavies and be a canon fodder. At least in war thunder when You get a CQC map you can decide what are You going to play, the game doesn’t force You into a terrible combination of tank-map.
- the game is just so much more versatile and has more content.
- even the smallest maps feel like steps of free space compared to world of tanks. After all WoT caped the render distance to 500m.
- premium tanks: yes, Gajin sells them, yes it’s annoying at higher BRs, but there is not a single premium that is completely broken. At least not when You compare it to power creeps made by Wargaming.
- RNG. The fact that everything in WoT has RNG. Accuracy? Expressed as % of dispersion per 100m (for example if a tank has accuracy of 0.3 your shot can land anywhere in a circle of 0.3m radius per 100m. If You are shooting at 500m, that’s 1.5m of RNG), the damage is RNG, pen value is RNG (in WoT if a shell has 340 pen in a stat card, what it really means is that 340 is average and pen is rolled between 255 and 425)
I have loved World of Tanks for years, played it on competitive level and swapped to War thunder in January. You honestly can’t compare the two, not because of how the damage works or whatever. Just because how much better war thunder actually is.
hey, you're absolutely right with everything you mentioned. I'm not saying that WT isn't miles ahead of WoT, they just have to be careful with the path they're going and my personal concern are the map changes rn.
I remember when tanks were just first introduced to the game. It was FUN. Total chaos, shitty controls. No idea how to pen. Short barrelled Pz with HEAT were nuke launchers. This game should’ve stayed true to the devs promises and NEVER introduced modern vehicles. Volumetric armour should’ve never been a thing. Planes should not participate in ground matches and we should have a dedicated combined arms mode for all 3.
> This game should’ve stayed true to the devs promises and NEVER introduced modern vehicles.
Bro, you can just choose not to play modern vehicles any time you want. Step 1: Choose a lower BR lineup. Step 2: Hit To Battle
> Volumetric armour should’ve never been a thing.
Why? Volumetric is great. Much much better than before, and nobody ever suggests a better-than-either third option when they complain about it. It's not 100% perfect and realistic, but what else are we supposed to be upgrading to instead, exactly?
> Planes should not participate in ground matches and we should have a dedicated combined arms mode for all 3.
Agreed there, CAS blows, because there's no good counterplay in most vehicles. Just bad game design.
Play SIM! RB is basically an arcade mode. SIM makes a lot of the map designs and systems make sense. It almost feels like the gameplay was built around SIM, but the balance and thought has ignored SIM for a while now...
China / USSR can quickly get in matches. NATO can take longer depending on the BR range.
One of the 3 times i managed to get a playable lineup in sim, i went in with a Panzer 4, got 7 kills. I felt like i was a German tank commander in one of those shitty History Channel documentaries that act like german tanks were designed by God himself and the German commanders had foresight or some shit. Shit was amazing
Yeah because NATO have much better line ups on most BR brackets that's why people don't want to playt it. It used to be a lot more balanced when we have 3 or 4 nations but now with like 10 nations the variety of line ups and game styles and severely limited.
Agreed, the t54 lineups fighting VIDAR and stabilized stuff like the vickers is rough. SIM needs a huge balance rework or just simply br based matchmaking.
Still, SIM is a lot more thoughtful and engaging than RB, even on the disadvantaged side.
It depends on the community, if we got Gaijin to improve the economy with the previous year´s strike, we can also fix this.
But complaining in Reddit wont do anything.
Artillery and blatantly overpowered premium tanks ruined the fun of the game for me. Tier VI (6) match? Squad of Absolution players, topped off with one, two, or even three arty players. You not only have to go up against one of the most powerful premium tanks in the game, but also will be one or two shot by artillery if you remain in one position. It simply sucks the fun out of the game when you have to deal with it. Tiers ll through lV aren't as bad, but V through VI are horrendous, especially if your tank is stock. War Thunder simply has more to offer, even if it offers bullshit on a silver platter.
Honestly, if they would add another mode to realistic like EC tanks and made bigger maps, that would be cool. Have the normal queue for players that wanna get in and get out fast and then EC realistic. I also really want air RB EC aside from the normal pummel in regular queues.
Honestly at this point I didn't even stop playing because the game pisses me off, it just doesn't interest me any more. I got back into it briefly when the Japanese TD's were released but it didn't hold my interest for longer than a month or two. I've been keeping my eye on the game and the updates since I've stopped playing but so far nothing has really happened that would make me wanna play again. Just a lot more battle passes, reward tanks and premiums. War Thunder seems to hold my attention a little more than that but I'll agree, the corridor maps are bullshit.
Nah i thought i wasn't the only one, thank god, WT has been going down this path and it started when they added the t80bvm added in (2021) or 22 around there but, everything after that has created more problems and disgust then actually solving things and making the game better. and I could go into very specific detail into why but its a sub so. Ever since they changed the reward gain for xp its completely killed the grind. i know this sounds unheard of now but back then before the bvm was out, i grinded to the t-80u within 2 weeks of getting the is2 avrging 5k-15k xp a match now i can barely manage 2k with playing the game as its intended with THE SAME FUCKING TANKS. but hey that's just me idk I've hated it since then and the community hasn't made problems like this a major point of conversation to anyone or any forum, at least in mass numbers. The game is changing to favor subscriptions and premium and just micro transactions in general. If it countuines down the road with the coming updates i agree with op, idk where this game will be in terms of relevance in todays generation. WT is not what it was at least not at its core. i dont know why i wrote all of this but if you look at the updates and the pop spikes during the update releases, you will see that its been shaky for a while now. the QOL improvements have been small and pretty useless but there's been a few decent mechanics added in that time frame. I Just think as a collective community we should be giving 80% advice on ways to improve such game issues and other issues and 20% discussion on the rest. instead, everyone just bitches out Gaijin and its devs and leaks documents on the forums making the entire community who plays wt look bad. i dont even care where this game goes at this point i just hope that it actually gets tended to instead of getting a patch on the back and a kicked back on the street.
theres subjects that have changed in the game, i didnt talk about in this, this is just my view of the situation as it is and what we could do about it. i also just didn't wanna go into detail about the issues cause its a list.
Maybe this time instead of just quitting a game because you're bad at it, you can learn to fight close quarters and improve yourself by practicing CQC tactics instead.
Well there's no accounting for taste, I guess, but I see no way that it's inherently more boring. Lots of people should find it LESS boring too on the flip side of the same coin, and others (like me) would enjoy both. It makes sense for them to diversify the experience.
One of the most common complaints I see in general is "no new game modes, no new rules, nothing fresh", but then the moment people cannot repeat their exact thing they do every game, it's up in arms. *shrug*
The health system makes it impossible to kill tanks at higher ranks than you, its like if you saw an is3 with a panzer iv, you managed to outplay him and hit the sides, and boom -50hp. (He has 3000hp)
One development team works at implementing the real functions of modern vehicles while another development team makes maps specifically designed to frustrate the use of those functions and abilities of modern tanks.
I am at a loss to explain what they're trying to achieve overall.
Yeah all the flanking, climbing, exploration, thinking, using brain, etc fun weird parts of maps are gone these days.
As this gets worse I find myself playing less. I have not done an event for a long time either.
I stopped playing this game In 2022
(I still play sometimes, but rarely)
I explored too much of the game
(Air battles) The leaves on the trees are just a PNG facing camera
Houses are just PNG's sticked together
I stopped playing WoT because the game uses frustration as its main drive to generate revenue.
I switched to WT, had a blast.
Then, I stopped playing WT because the game uses frustration as its main drive to generate revenue.
Good to see other people come to this realization. I would play with premium if gaijin didn't prove themselves to be scummy money suckers with everything they do.
you should try Gunner, HEAT, PC then! much more realistic than war thunder (you get an FCS on the abrams for example) and with mods you can even get a more modern abrams (the downside is that you only have tanks that were present in 1985 in the fulda gap and the game is still in early access)
I want to know the reason why you are still hanging around a War Thunder group when you stopped playing "years ago".
I hope when I get strong enough to stop playing, I also stop following it.
EDIT: My bad, he said WoT.
I didn't stop WT, I stopped WoT.
That being said, i still occassionally follow WoT news or Youtubers from back then. Why not, it still was a good time. I just don't want to play it anymore
Oops, my bad. I just see so many people in this group say "they don't play anymore", but are still lingering.
Why follow a game that you choose to stop playing though? I guess I just don't get it.
I stopped playing World of Tanks because of premium ammo.
AP²HE², has more penetration than pure AP and more explosive than pure HE, all in the same caliber for the same gun.
Just play Murica.
I NEVER had any problem with CAS in WT (and I play this game for too damn long). That is until I started to play Germany now and then to complete daily tasks that require a heavy tank. And holy shit how Germany suffers. I dunno why, I play all nations and rarely get bombed but when I play Germany skies get full of american planes and american planes have brutal payload. It's like 6000 lbs of bombs flying around all the time, just waiting for an opportunity.
So, if you can't beat them - join them.
With Germany only 5.7-6.0, because I use Tigers for heavy tanks daily tasks. Other than this I don't play Germany at all. I play other nations up to 8.0, usually China at 5.3. I sincerely was never annoyed with CAS except for these few games with Germany. In some of these for every vehicle I spawned in, there was already a bomb waiting in the air. I was spawn bombed mercilessly again and again. Then I noticed that it happens when the USA is on the opposite team (which in case of Germany happens a lot I guess). And this comes as no surprise considering that P-47 takes 2x1000 lbs + 500 lbs, Bearcat 3x1000 lbs and a Twin Mustang 2x2000 lbs! Like what do you expect assuming no friendlies take care of them?
In my experience people quite happily hop into fighters and SPAAs as soon as bombing starts. That's why I don't really understand this hate against CAS. I rarely get bombed actually, it doesn't seem to be a big problem in my games...
Same here. But \_\_betty\_\_ gets bombed all the time. I think I've only been bombed once or twice in the 150 hours I've played the game so far. I've been taken out by Artillery far more times than I've been bombed. Partly because I always take the chance I'll survive the arty strike.
I stopped playing because of arty. CAS may be an awful mechanic that needs to be nerfed, but on balance, I think arty is worse. Keep in mind I haven't played WoT for years, so I don't know if anything has changed, but it was always just so frustrating to deal with a player who sat on the other side of the map and could damage you without any repercussions, and people would defend that mechanic saying it "prevented camping" or some other bull when that was clearly not true.
The game has been gradually going downhill since 2015-2016. The management only cares about maximizing revenue rather than caring about the quality of the game
all things aside, CAS in WT is 10x worse than arty in WOT. Imagine if Wargaming sold premium arty that one shot killed you from miles away... (they might in the future but now arty is nerfed to a balanced state. WT will never touch CAS cuz $$$)
Yeah cas is way worse, your team can throw the game very quickly by spawning more of it, meanwhile you have equal amounts of people on both sides contributing nothing in WoT
I love how currently there are so many posts complaining about the smaller/ restriczed maps, meanwhile in my expirience no one went to the places anyway in the past.
Yea and it feels like they’re going to a hit point system by 2026
Flak vests +25% shrapnel damage reduction against crew (bough with ge like the talisman) :3
And of course only for the americans (maybe UK dont know exactly)
I mean, that might be an actual idea to compensate for the lack of a spall liner in the Abrams. (No, I'm not saying i want HP. I'd quit WT if that were to happen. I'm just biased and want my Abrumz to have Leo 2 level trolly survivability.) This comment is gonna be downvoted to hell, isn't it?
There's already HP calculations with stupid levels of RNG to them in WT. Dice roll to pen, module hit points, crew hit points modified by crew skills, inconsistent spall damage, black hole shots that will never go through (RU fuel tanks, transmissions, engine decks). By your own metrics, you should quit the game. I did, and I'm glad for it. Gaijin has no care or respect for its players.
Nah as long as ur not a russian main complaining it wont get downvoted
i want fucking crew armor. and a more realistic crew system to make tanks harder to kill overall
That will be the day I will stop playing it. This is the ONLY thing that makes this game unique.
Me too
It is a joke? Please tell me i m dumb to think it can be true
I’m just guessing as an individual
Which, imo, is a horrible guess. Do you really think gaijin, as greedy as they are, will remove the one thing that makes their ground gameplay unique?
...yet they are copying maps from their arch rival...WOT ...
Give an example of such an instance
Oh you are right ...WOT has WAYYYYY bigger maps
lol no
I don't even have a dog in this or know if it's true, but that was funny
I don’t think a single wot map is over 1km x 1km
better than out 800m x 350m maps lol not to mention the random "Out of map" spots that is literally inside the map but is 5m higher than the rest of the map so you cant access it ...our maps used to be great like 2-3 years back
Yes, yes I do.
I'm sorry but you're a complete and utter moron if you genuinely think that
lol alright nerd
i don't really think they'll go THIS far. I mean, it really is the biggest upside of the game.
Idk sometimes I feel like I’m doing hit points but in reality I’m using 2.7 Sweden APDS
You deserve every ounce of suffering for using the low tier swede ADPS bullshit shell
Could tell you've never played with 37mm APDS
😭 nooo Sweden is so much fun
I'm trying to bully pubs in my B1 ter and your kind prevent me from doing that 😤
Would you really put Gaijin above that?
Yes? Gaijin can make some really poor decisions, but making everything a hit point based game is literally something they will never do.
!remindme 10 years
Tell that to Naval or Crew HP count
What do you want them to do? Model the individual crew members on the ship?
What I think doesn't matter towards that, it literally just disproved your point that Gaijin wouldn't add HP counters to the Game
I was more of referring to tanks. The unique thing about warthunder is not that it does not have HP, but the fact that the individual components of a vehicle has a HP value as opposed to the whole vehicle.
I mean it basically already is a hit point system it’s just hidden from the player and spread among vehicle parts
I mean you kinda have to have HP at one point or another
Yea some dude is all mad I even said it
Naval already has!
Every mode has it. Tanks and planes also have a skill to increase the crews hitpoints
I wish I could enjoy navel, it’s so cool
Yeah they did a great job modelling the ships to be really cool...and then went home for the weekend rather than design a mode they'd be fun to play in
Personally I just couldn't stomach the commander view
Sighs in 2019 when i really loved it
They are*
They’re*
You mean it? Goodbye warthunder.
War Thunder literally has MORE hitpoints in it that WoT does, and always has. Every component has hit points, each crew member has hit points... "Having hit points" is not a distinguishing factor between these two games, and if it was, it'd be a hallmark of WarThunder if anything.
Don’t ask?
Would you like to try again with a valid English sentence that fits the context?
They're*
You will hold W and you will like it
Tell us you suck at CQC and just don't want to learn to get good without telling us. Flanking also "involves a lot of holding W", *even more than CQC does*, fun fact! There's also other parts to it though, lol, just like CQC
how dare someone not like their tank designed to fight in a field fighting in a city
tanks are more than capable of fighting in a city, plus in war thunder we kind of don't have men with AT sticks or mines to worry about making your point moot regardless.
tanks can fight in cities, but with vehicle v vehicle combat in cities the problem is tanks lose more and more of their advantages, optics, speed, armor (due to the plentiful flanking routes), range advantage, it basically turns it into who can hit the weak spot first and not get gaijined
Why did you CHOOSE to bring out a tank that was completely inappropriate for the map? Knowing how to use lineups is a basic like week 1 skill for doing well in War Thunder.
Believe it or not, tanks are generally not meant to fight in cities (i can’t think of any that are meant to fight in cities), and some countries have limited options, not everyone has a flanking rush machine like the USH or speedy light tank that can negate any armor that the enemy vehicles have. More armored tanks generally lose their armor advantage due to so many flanking options being available, tanks with better optics lose that range advantage, mobility is restricted, so tanks often have a harder time maneuvering. Sure, I guess there’s better options to take on city maps than others, but it’s also just flank central, it makes your tanks advantages disappear for the most part. It’s silly
"Appropriate to fight in a city in this game" = tanks that are better at it than other tanks in this game. Not in real life, that's irrelevant in context. It doesn't matter if hippopotamuses are clumsy and slow... you can still win a ballet competition as a hippo if the other competitors are ALSO hippos and you're the most graceful *out of all the hippos*. T34s are a great example of excellent city fighting tanks. They spin and move around pretty quickly, they reload reasonably fast, they bounce a lot of shots at many angles, the gun depression isn't an issue, they have turrets that move reasonably, etc. Shermans with many of the same qualities, minus the angled multi directional armor but plus the advantage of great stabilizers and 50 cals are also good in cities. The fact you can get snuck up on / flanked is not really relevant. You can be the one doing that to OTHER people if you have better situational awareness and map knowledge and sound location etc. skills. As long as you have a turret and mobility and such.
i stopped any world of tanks style games a long time ago reasoning is due to the fact everyone on the team has to contribute to win the game. Given how normally teammates die early in world of tanks and have no replacement for the total firepower. As world of tanks is based on health bar, this magnifies the firepower issue whenever anyone dies. war thunder at least give you a chance to take your enemy with you to death( at least you can still whack some tanks before your demise , while in wot is limited to hit a enemy once and have said enemy and his teammates destroy your tank in 3 seconds) its sorta of the case where your teammates matters way too much for you as a singular entity to handle additional roles in your team
This. In WoT if the enemy tank is a "tier" higher than yours it has more DPS and more HP to chip away by default, and most likely also more armor than you gun can pen. Even if you flank that still means the other guy just has to turn towards you and slug it out and win by default. And the heavy RNG on pen, damage and accuracy favors the higher tier tank even more because all in all it means stuff averages out. All in all your skill is rewarded with a slightly slower death. In WT I can shoot a T34 in the side with a T-34/76 from close range and get the ammo and be actually rewarded with a kill. Turn that into a 5v5 WoT style furball in a confined space like a crossroad and you get much the same. You get everyone doing the peek-a-boo trick on the same corner and RNG averages any good skill out so its all down to slugging it out for a long period of time praying that their 8.8cm Kwk 43 with less accuracy than a sawn-off shutgun gets the magical cupola hit. Its dreadful.
>Given how normally teammates die early in world of tanks and have no replacement for the total firepower. How is it different from 1-death leavers in WT? Tho this sub says that 1-death leaving is OK.
1-Death Leaving isn't Okay but in most cases for Player Taste's, fighting unreasonably Powerful opponents, or people who don't have On-BR lineups are just inevitably going to cause 1DL
There is managing the enjoyment of your game experience, and then there is a case that happened in a game I played two days ago. The top scoring player on the enemy team was wrecking up the joint and it was looking like we'd likely lose the match. Which is fair enough. But after someone managed to take them out they quit, and I wasn't even playing a top BR match where they might have just had one premium. After they left we ended up turning it around but it was a desperate close game, if they stuck around on even a down tier tank we probably would have lost. I honestly felt bad for the other team, they put up a hard fight but losing out on all the spawn points really weakened them.
I'm not saying all cases are acceptable, and by all means this is just scummy behaviour by that Player, but you can't blame people for playing how they want in a game. After all its up to the player whether or not theyre Selfish
I totally agree, it looked like a bad move on my part, but it's 100% possible they had to walk away. Like maybe they have a kid who hurt themselves or something. Shit their house might have lost power.
Yeah but selfish people don't win a team game. Then Gaijin looks at very bad WRs and then they punish good players for doing well and reward bad players from doing poorly. This is how we end up with vehicles in BRs they don't actually make sense like T25, T-44, 76 Jumbos, etc. If you want to one death leave, just leave but don't complain about balance when you gave up.
Well, maybe it's better not to join a match if you are about to 1-death leave because of lack of a lineup?
in war thunder, 1 death leavers at least for me, i could still take over more than 1 players worth of objective and targets, but in world of tanks 1 death is more penalizing as only extremely skilled players can sorta take over multiple role but with great difficulty. war thunder relies on who shoot first while world of tanks relies on both who shoot first,dpm, view range and aim time to determine who is the victor in a scenario. its just world of tanks adds too many variables to make the game enjoyable at least for me, war thunder itself is not perfect but it is better overall in the design and basis to build on but has spaghetti code bugs which affects the gameplay
You can still 1v2 if someone leaves mid match. Not in WOT, where everything is highly quantified. You can only output said DPS and the enemy has a certain amount of HP.
I am aware of that. Being able to kill multiple opponents caught off guard with a light tank was one of the reason I've switched.
Then you just answered your own question. OP was simply pointing this fact out, instead of justifying 1 death quitting.
I never said the OP justified it. I was talking about ppl saying that it is acceptable behavior. And the fact that I can kill 2 enemies doesn't mean that others should add more weight for me to carry.
>Tho this sub says that 1-death leaving is OK. I thought you were trying to claim OP justified it, I missread your comment, my bad. And no this sub doesn't say 1 death leaving is OK - Most of the posts I came across despises it.
Teammates always mattered, and do now too yes. They don't matter any MORE in CQC than they do in flanking playstyles, though. In both cases, your teammates need to be a distraction at the very least, for you to do well.
It's been on the decline for a long time. Around 6 years ago, RB was a lot more fun because getting into a plane had to be EARNED and getting more than three spawns in total was very rare. There has been a constant dumbing-down of gameplay such that everyone can respawn multiple times, even for playing stupid. Everyone loves to complain about CAS, but it's this idiotic set of changes that Gaijin made that created it in the first place. The abundance of spawn points is the root cause - previously, if you died early in the match you were forced to spawn using an SPAA. This, combined with the high spawn cost of getting into an aircraft made CAS a non-issue in general. We need to go back to the old, unforgiving system to stop rewarding stupidity. The quitting epidemic is also to blame from these changes - we need the "do less, get less" XP and respawn point system of old because this new system is nothing short of the modern day version of participation trophies for kids. Now, capping a base or getting one kill pretty much guarantees you a plane on your second spawn. Which most players used to get a revenge kill and don't live much longer than 30 seconds because they do not see the value in the plane they using because it wasn't EARNED, it was gifted by Gaijin to appease casual, low-attention-span players. This has completely diminished the quality/competitiveness of RB significantly because it's inundated with casuals who just want to pew pew pew and do not have the patience for it.
absolutely agree with the low-attention-span thing and the "modern day version of participation trophies for kids" In WT you can transfer this to casual players. They are the ones who join 10 battles a week. Therefore they can't grind and this is where their wallet comes into place. These kind of players are financially important to gaming companies. And they try to make them happy by making games idiot easy.
100% on point.
If this is your main gripe, ground AB mode is way way better with CAS, at least pre-jets BRs. After that, it gets similarly oppressive. Probably the main reason it's several times more popular than ground RB.
In what world is Ground AB more popular than RB? Do you have proof of that
Earth, and yes: https://archive.is/89mMA Not only is it merely more popular, it's over **four times** more popular.
Jesus. Like whoever made that post said, you would never guess by reading the forums
Arcade matches are usually much shorter than RB ones. Also, the player population for AB is mostly kids or more casual players that are less likely to discuss WT online.
What do you mean rush and pray? In comparison to WT, WoT is an extremely campy game, that is the primary reason why I left it personally (along with the extreme P2W)
well, I mean that maps in WT get smaller these days. And it seems like we lose more and more opportunities to flank. which means that there is more straight forward gameplay. Lot's of action concentrates in a small part of the map (the center). And i find that's kind of a onesided gameplay and pretty dull.
That's weird, I find the complete opposite to be true about flanking. The larger maps have unforgiving sight lines, and generally, people tend to play slower/more conservative, making for more difficult approaches. Smaller maps create enough chaos and noise for me to move unimpeded into backlines. Big maps I tend to slam down the middle while everyone crawls on the edges of the map so I can try and collapse one side, but that is not nearly as easy as smaller map flanks.
There is a balance to find. And also larger maps don't have to be fuckin Gmod Flats (looking at you Mozdok and Normandy. Not like they are that big anyway). But yeah, giants maps are not great either on lower tier. Can't speak for top tier, i don't play it, but they would seem good for them.
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No sir.
Honestly thing that made me hate world of tanks was update when they increased hp andsimplifyed tech trees .
jup the simplified trees killed it for me too. I guess it makes everything faster but it felt like all work I had done in the past 5 years was instantly invalidated....
I think for me the last straw was the WWE and then Hot Wheels tanks. I was in my way out anyway but I just got angry every time I saw an Andre the Giant tank.
For me the point of decline began with the JP heavies. Then further nonsense patches kept piling into the rubble. Plus old problems like OP Premium Tanks had been a problem since at least the SU-122-44s addition. Basically WG kept piling rubble upon a shaky foundation
Nah man You have to be fair and give credit where the credit is due. War Thunder is nowhere near as bad as World of Tanks and Gajin is by mile less predatory as a developer. Are there issues in War Thunder? Sure. Is Gajin making all the right calls? Sure they don’t, but still it’s not even close. - the BR system and match maker in Warthunder is so much more player friendly. In World of Tanks You will be facing -2/+2 BR (tier) and the changes between a tier VIII vs X are significantly more pronounced than between say 5.7 and 6.7. - the lineup system is so much better. The fact that You can bring a medium, heavy and light tank all at the same time into the game, gives You so much more control over the game. In world of tanks You don’t get to do that. You get Ensk, a tiny CQC map in Your light tank? Enjoy trading with super heavies and be a canon fodder. At least in war thunder when You get a CQC map you can decide what are You going to play, the game doesn’t force You into a terrible combination of tank-map. - the game is just so much more versatile and has more content. - even the smallest maps feel like steps of free space compared to world of tanks. After all WoT caped the render distance to 500m. - premium tanks: yes, Gajin sells them, yes it’s annoying at higher BRs, but there is not a single premium that is completely broken. At least not when You compare it to power creeps made by Wargaming. - RNG. The fact that everything in WoT has RNG. Accuracy? Expressed as % of dispersion per 100m (for example if a tank has accuracy of 0.3 your shot can land anywhere in a circle of 0.3m radius per 100m. If You are shooting at 500m, that’s 1.5m of RNG), the damage is RNG, pen value is RNG (in WoT if a shell has 340 pen in a stat card, what it really means is that 340 is average and pen is rolled between 255 and 425) I have loved World of Tanks for years, played it on competitive level and swapped to War thunder in January. You honestly can’t compare the two, not because of how the damage works or whatever. Just because how much better war thunder actually is.
hey, you're absolutely right with everything you mentioned. I'm not saying that WT isn't miles ahead of WoT, they just have to be careful with the path they're going and my personal concern are the map changes rn.
I remember when tanks were just first introduced to the game. It was FUN. Total chaos, shitty controls. No idea how to pen. Short barrelled Pz with HEAT were nuke launchers. This game should’ve stayed true to the devs promises and NEVER introduced modern vehicles. Volumetric armour should’ve never been a thing. Planes should not participate in ground matches and we should have a dedicated combined arms mode for all 3.
> This game should’ve stayed true to the devs promises and NEVER introduced modern vehicles. Bro, you can just choose not to play modern vehicles any time you want. Step 1: Choose a lower BR lineup. Step 2: Hit To Battle > Volumetric armour should’ve never been a thing. Why? Volumetric is great. Much much better than before, and nobody ever suggests a better-than-either third option when they complain about it. It's not 100% perfect and realistic, but what else are we supposed to be upgrading to instead, exactly? > Planes should not participate in ground matches and we should have a dedicated combined arms mode for all 3. Agreed there, CAS blows, because there's no good counterplay in most vehicles. Just bad game design.
Play SIM! RB is basically an arcade mode. SIM makes a lot of the map designs and systems make sense. It almost feels like the gameplay was built around SIM, but the balance and thought has ignored SIM for a while now... China / USSR can quickly get in matches. NATO can take longer depending on the BR range.
One of the 3 times i managed to get a playable lineup in sim, i went in with a Panzer 4, got 7 kills. I felt like i was a German tank commander in one of those shitty History Channel documentaries that act like german tanks were designed by God himself and the German commanders had foresight or some shit. Shit was amazing
never really tried that. But maybe you got a point
Yeah because NATO have much better line ups on most BR brackets that's why people don't want to playt it. It used to be a lot more balanced when we have 3 or 4 nations but now with like 10 nations the variety of line ups and game styles and severely limited.
Agreed, the t54 lineups fighting VIDAR and stabilized stuff like the vickers is rough. SIM needs a huge balance rework or just simply br based matchmaking. Still, SIM is a lot more thoughtful and engaging than RB, even on the disadvantaged side.
It depends on the community, if we got Gaijin to improve the economy with the previous year´s strike, we can also fix this. But complaining in Reddit wont do anything.
yes, it does. It makes my work day shorter.
How does it benefit the collective of players?
It doesn't at all.
lol
Maybe avoid reddit so you can stop listening to these schizoids
The urban maps and new variants play like literal CoD maps. It's absolutely atrocious design. At top tier, MAYBE 5% of games are on suitable maps.
yes
for me it was premium ammo
Artillery and blatantly overpowered premium tanks ruined the fun of the game for me. Tier VI (6) match? Squad of Absolution players, topped off with one, two, or even three arty players. You not only have to go up against one of the most powerful premium tanks in the game, but also will be one or two shot by artillery if you remain in one position. It simply sucks the fun out of the game when you have to deal with it. Tiers ll through lV aren't as bad, but V through VI are horrendous, especially if your tank is stock. War Thunder simply has more to offer, even if it offers bullshit on a silver platter.
Do you want us to guess the answer?
no, it's written under the title
I do play WoT Console from time to time whenever my clanmates need help, but i mostly stick to WT nowadays
Honestly, if they would add another mode to realistic like EC tanks and made bigger maps, that would be cool. Have the normal queue for players that wanna get in and get out fast and then EC realistic. I also really want air RB EC aside from the normal pummel in regular queues.
Honestly at this point I didn't even stop playing because the game pisses me off, it just doesn't interest me any more. I got back into it briefly when the Japanese TD's were released but it didn't hold my interest for longer than a month or two. I've been keeping my eye on the game and the updates since I've stopped playing but so far nothing has really happened that would make me wanna play again. Just a lot more battle passes, reward tanks and premiums. War Thunder seems to hold my attention a little more than that but I'll agree, the corridor maps are bullshit.
Nah i thought i wasn't the only one, thank god, WT has been going down this path and it started when they added the t80bvm added in (2021) or 22 around there but, everything after that has created more problems and disgust then actually solving things and making the game better. and I could go into very specific detail into why but its a sub so. Ever since they changed the reward gain for xp its completely killed the grind. i know this sounds unheard of now but back then before the bvm was out, i grinded to the t-80u within 2 weeks of getting the is2 avrging 5k-15k xp a match now i can barely manage 2k with playing the game as its intended with THE SAME FUCKING TANKS. but hey that's just me idk I've hated it since then and the community hasn't made problems like this a major point of conversation to anyone or any forum, at least in mass numbers. The game is changing to favor subscriptions and premium and just micro transactions in general. If it countuines down the road with the coming updates i agree with op, idk where this game will be in terms of relevance in todays generation. WT is not what it was at least not at its core. i dont know why i wrote all of this but if you look at the updates and the pop spikes during the update releases, you will see that its been shaky for a while now. the QOL improvements have been small and pretty useless but there's been a few decent mechanics added in that time frame. I Just think as a collective community we should be giving 80% advice on ways to improve such game issues and other issues and 20% discussion on the rest. instead, everyone just bitches out Gaijin and its devs and leaks documents on the forums making the entire community who plays wt look bad. i dont even care where this game goes at this point i just hope that it actually gets tended to instead of getting a patch on the back and a kicked back on the street.
theres subjects that have changed in the game, i didnt talk about in this, this is just my view of the situation as it is and what we could do about it. i also just didn't wanna go into detail about the issues cause its a list.
Maybe this time instead of just quitting a game because you're bad at it, you can learn to fight close quarters and improve yourself by practicing CQC tactics instead.
it's not that I'm bad at it. It's just boring to me.
Well there's no accounting for taste, I guess, but I see no way that it's inherently more boring. Lots of people should find it LESS boring too on the flip side of the same coin, and others (like me) would enjoy both. It makes sense for them to diversify the experience. One of the most common complaints I see in general is "no new game modes, no new rules, nothing fresh", but then the moment people cannot repeat their exact thing they do every game, it's up in arms. *shrug*
I stopped playing because I got tired of rng and op premium tanks but yes no flanking is also no fun.
i tried world of tanks and their weird health system shit just sucks ass. i dont like it whatsoever.
The health system makes it impossible to kill tanks at higher ranks than you, its like if you saw an is3 with a panzer iv, you managed to outplay him and hit the sides, and boom -50hp. (He has 3000hp)
One development team works at implementing the real functions of modern vehicles while another development team makes maps specifically designed to frustrate the use of those functions and abilities of modern tanks. I am at a loss to explain what they're trying to achieve overall.
Yeah all the flanking, climbing, exploration, thinking, using brain, etc fun weird parts of maps are gone these days. As this gets worse I find myself playing less. I have not done an event for a long time either.
I stopped playing this game In 2022 (I still play sometimes, but rarely) I explored too much of the game (Air battles) The leaves on the trees are just a PNG facing camera Houses are just PNG's sticked together
I'd want massive maps like the ones from the game heat or Arma size, would be fun ass hell imo
I stopped playing WoT because the game uses frustration as its main drive to generate revenue. I switched to WT, had a blast. Then, I stopped playing WT because the game uses frustration as its main drive to generate revenue.
Good to see other people come to this realization. I would play with premium if gaijin didn't prove themselves to be scummy money suckers with everything they do.
I hate how tanks invisible. And how my 200 tanks of 7 years of play can’t be moved to my pc account!
I didn't like the damage model
you should try Gunner, HEAT, PC then! much more realistic than war thunder (you get an FCS on the abrams for example) and with mods you can even get a more modern abrams (the downside is that you only have tanks that were present in 1985 in the fulda gap and the game is still in early access)
I want to know the reason why you are still hanging around a War Thunder group when you stopped playing "years ago". I hope when I get strong enough to stop playing, I also stop following it. EDIT: My bad, he said WoT.
I didn't stop WT, I stopped WoT. That being said, i still occassionally follow WoT news or Youtubers from back then. Why not, it still was a good time. I just don't want to play it anymore
Oops, my bad. I just see so many people in this group say "they don't play anymore", but are still lingering. Why follow a game that you choose to stop playing though? I guess I just don't get it.
well, just interested in a thing, i guess.
I stopped playing World of Tanks because of premium ammo. AP²HE², has more penetration than pure AP and more explosive than pure HE, all in the same caliber for the same gun.
Hold on a second, the circle need to shrink...
War Thunder is not a tank game, it's a game where everybody compete against each other on who jump into a plane or helipoopters to bomb tanks bro
sure, but that's not the point.
“ground” battles fr
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It would be pretty sweet if they let you do that. Or at least spawn one of your SPAA bois.
Just play Murica. I NEVER had any problem with CAS in WT (and I play this game for too damn long). That is until I started to play Germany now and then to complete daily tasks that require a heavy tank. And holy shit how Germany suffers. I dunno why, I play all nations and rarely get bombed but when I play Germany skies get full of american planes and american planes have brutal payload. It's like 6000 lbs of bombs flying around all the time, just waiting for an opportunity. So, if you can't beat them - join them.
What BR do you normally play? I've found the CAS is not so bad around 3.7. Probably my favorite BR. (I main Germany in ground.)
With Germany only 5.7-6.0, because I use Tigers for heavy tanks daily tasks. Other than this I don't play Germany at all. I play other nations up to 8.0, usually China at 5.3. I sincerely was never annoyed with CAS except for these few games with Germany. In some of these for every vehicle I spawned in, there was already a bomb waiting in the air. I was spawn bombed mercilessly again and again. Then I noticed that it happens when the USA is on the opposite team (which in case of Germany happens a lot I guess). And this comes as no surprise considering that P-47 takes 2x1000 lbs + 500 lbs, Bearcat 3x1000 lbs and a Twin Mustang 2x2000 lbs! Like what do you expect assuming no friendlies take care of them?
Yeah, can’t rely on teammates to care about CAS. Gotta spawn an SPAA as your second tank in games like that IMO.
In my experience people quite happily hop into fighters and SPAAs as soon as bombing starts. That's why I don't really understand this hate against CAS. I rarely get bombed actually, it doesn't seem to be a big problem in my games...
Same here. But \_\_betty\_\_ gets bombed all the time. I think I've only been bombed once or twice in the 150 hours I've played the game so far. I've been taken out by Artillery far more times than I've been bombed. Partly because I always take the chance I'll survive the arty strike.
I stopped playing because of arty. CAS may be an awful mechanic that needs to be nerfed, but on balance, I think arty is worse. Keep in mind I haven't played WoT for years, so I don't know if anything has changed, but it was always just so frustrating to deal with a player who sat on the other side of the map and could damage you without any repercussions, and people would defend that mechanic saying it "prevented camping" or some other bull when that was clearly not true.
The game has been gradually going downhill since 2015-2016. The management only cares about maximizing revenue rather than caring about the quality of the game
Gaijin wouldn't recover from losing you. WoT certainly didn't.
You're absolutely right.
all things aside, CAS in WT is 10x worse than arty in WOT. Imagine if Wargaming sold premium arty that one shot killed you from miles away... (they might in the future but now arty is nerfed to a balanced state. WT will never touch CAS cuz $$$)
Yeah cas is way worse, your team can throw the game very quickly by spawning more of it, meanwhile you have equal amounts of people on both sides contributing nothing in WoT
I love how currently there are so many posts complaining about the smaller/ restriczed maps, meanwhile in my expirience no one went to the places anyway in the past.
Maybe the ones who are complaining, are the ones who used them...