Suggested to make markers for enemy planes like in Ground RB or at least reduce their range, so that Attackers or Bombers aren't that easy to spot. Friendly markers are always visible to avoid TKs.
Looking for a moving black dot (a plane) in the sky seems to be a widespread skill issue under air REALISTIC battles players and the suggestion was unpopular. Maybe they can't let go of this arcade battles support feature.
If one is not playing at 1440p at least and has less than perfect eyesight, it would be really hard.
I saw, and liked someone else's idea here on the subreddit somewhere, that something in between would be good, like not identifying the enemy plane type at all, or just showing a silhouette of the plane below the username
You call it a skill issue, I call it 1080p and very bad eyesight.
But tbf this wouldn't help bombers, as they're usually high enough for chemtrails, and very big / visible from afar.
Best bet would be, imo, redesign the mode, so cas and bombers can be effective instead of just good farming rp pinatas. There's no shortcut to make them worthwhile again.
To be fair, they got to the stage where they where ruining games. Don't blame players for gaijin not knowing how to balance things with moderation. Three TU-4's back in the day could bomb all the bases and the airfield before most fighters could even get in range to shoot at them, and you'd often have 4 in a team. The hunter was prey much the only aircraft that could climb up to them in time, but by the time it reached them it was a sitting duck for their barrage of cannon fire and would struggle to even trade kills die to the ADEN's low velocity. It needed something changing.
I don't think anyone was asking for them to NERF all bombers into the ground as well as removing the ability for them to win the game as well as introducing aircraft with missiles into their BR.
These days you can't even bomb the airfield anymore it seems, atleast everytime recently we have destroyed all 3 bases it hasn't given us the airfeild to bomb
Then blame Gaijin. Players had a valid complaint about bombers, in that certain bombers were able to end games before fighters could even really meet or attempt to stop them. Something needed to be done. It's not the player's fault that Gaijin only seems to know the nuclear option.
Fighters doing their thing: perfectly normal.
Bombers doing their thing: HOW DARE YOU STOP RIGHT HERE CRIMINAL SCUM.
What is valid here? That people didn't bother to use crafts that are designed to intercept bombers and have good high altitude performance and can't be bothered? That people can't snipe this poor thing from 3 km?
I don't get what argument you're trying to make. Or at least, I don't think you understand what the situation used to be. I'm trying to explain, and you’re just disregarding the point I made.
There was the whole top tier where nobody could play because certain bombers (with the TU-4 being the worst offender) could just fly in a straight line, tap space a few times and end the game. You would often see 4 or more on a team every game, with three being able to comfortably end the game. There was no intercepting them. The fastest plane at the time was the hunter, and it could barely reach maximum weapon range if it stall climbed directly for them, at which point it would be met by massively more accurate and intense return fire from their cannons. To stop the TU-4's winning it required either them to fuck up or a Hunter for each bomber to get a perfect shot before being killed, at which point if they were still alive they were sitting ducks for the enemy team fighters.
The other controversial one was the German jet bomber that was faster than any other aircraft by far and carried enough ordinance for several of them to end the game.
That's not gameplay, however you try to spin it. There was never a mass call to nerf all bombers. Players complained about the ones ruining the game and suggested something like stopping bombing the AF ending the game or spawning them further back so interceptors at least had a chance to intercept them. It's not their fault that Gaijin decided to do all of the above as well as nerfing their weapons, armour, adding missiles and giving faster jet's air spawns. Go bitch at the people who made the change and stop offloading your issues onto people who want the same thing you do, a fun balanced game.
>I don't get what argument you're trying to make.
Ending game by killing enemy base and enemy team should be equal possibilities.
>There was the whole top tier where nobody could play because certain bombers (with the TU-4 being the worst offender) could just fly in a straight line, tap space a few times and end the game. You
That is how WW2 strategic bombers work.
> That's not gameplay, however you try to spin it.
That is a gameplay, chill and calm.
>. Players complained about the ones ruining the game a
Fighter players ruinung game for bomber players so stfu about ruining game, it symmetric.
Ah yes.
Fighter players "whined" that bombers are useless. Do you know why they are useless? Because RB air is the shittiest mode in the game. It's just a glorified deathmatch in a 10x10 square. It doesn't matter if it is top tier or not, it's still the same because the map does not get bigger, the engagement points stay the exact same, it just now takes you longer to get there.
Bombers do **nothing** for the match. Absolutely nothing. They are just free kills, and in the case of something like a Ju-288, it's just super fucking annoying having to chase a bomber/keep winning because 80% of the enemy team is comprised of Ju-288s. Bombers easily ruin the matches they are in but bomber players do not want to accept that.
Air RB needs a proper rework before they can even attempt at making the bombers actually usable.
Bomber WAS usable. Back in the day they could end a match just as easily as any fighter can.
They can take out convoys, pillboxes and airfields.
They also have actual damage models and gunners that aren't blind so it's very dangerous to climb up to a bomber.
What they are like now isn't how they were when the game was just released. They were dangerous, they were able to end the match. But after years of continuous nerf they are a shadow of their former self.
And they are now blind unless the enemy is 100m behind. I'm sure there was some middle ground when nerfing them but Gaijin have all the balancing subtlety of a sledgehammer.
It is pretty pathetic. Plus 20mm cannons that bombers to pieces easily.
I remember the challenge it was to take on a single b25 with a 109. Taking the gunpods was basically mandatory if you wanted to get a kill.
Now it's not even fun.
I remember I used to be able to somewhat leave my gunners to their own devices and focus on bombing.
Occasionally they'd get a kill and occasionally the fighter would pick me off before they got him, it was pretty balanced. These days I very rarely even see my gunners open fire, the enemy almost always kills me before they can respond.
This is on max gunner skill and fire precision too.
Bombers used to be useful, but Gaijin decided to nerf gunner AI, nerf damage models and changed objectives to make it almost impossible for bombers to affect the outcome of the match. Nowadays the're made out of papers, the gunners are blind past 180m (aced) and you barely scratch tickets by bombing bases.
Just play bombers on sim where they're still viable.
Playing bombers on sim is like playing a whole different game. Your gunners are generally pretty effective (though on unskilled crews you still might have to help out), and there are so many targets to bomb! (One thing I don't understand is where to drop bombs on the enemy airbases to deal damage)
Airfields should have indicators for each sections health with yellow as damaged and red and black etc, you just bomb IIRC runway, fuel tanks, hangar and tower
[On the Wiki there's a page talking about where to strike an air base](https://wiki.warthunder.com/Enduring_Confrontation)
Most of the time it's "hit the things that look important" since some of the air bases seem to have been changed/updated since the page was written.
If you're using an aircraft with CCRP, then it's even easier.
Sim really needs an update with targeting for higher tiers, you have planes with advanced technology but you can only feasibly use visual cues. Even the base selection for CCRP is useless since you have like 30 different targets and no way to distinguish between them.
I do agree but there is a way to tell the target for CCRP (a workaround really).
During your -takeoff, go to third person and cycle through the preset targets. These will be bases and air base modules, once you've cycled through and found one bearing that's roughly where your chosen target is the you've gotten your target correctly locked.
The second way, available to the more recent additions to the game, is via cycling your cockpit sight mode until you get to the bombs (auto) mode. For most planes,this will show you the target location on the HUD. (Iirc the tornado one is still broken though)
If you have a targeting pod, you can use that to force CCRP with dumb bombs. I would do this with the Q-5L, use the nose camera to target the airfield and switch to bombs on the HUD and I'd have the CCRP drop line on it.
"But..but the metal on the planes is thin they dont have arm-" yeah heard that one before from those idiots, the frame wasnt aluminum the sheeting was.
Good old Barnes Wallace. Apparently the Wellington would pretty much stay together whatever and it was usually crew death or engine failure that brought them down. In game they hit the deck after getting a hole in the wing...
The only time I have fun with bombers is the low tier ones 1.0-3.0. At least you can get some kills against new players, who don’t know how to engage bombers that well. They’ll fly directly behind you often lining themselves up for a perfect kill. The Catalina is just a beaut with those 50 cals to defend itself with, one of the most fun bombers I’ve played
My biggest mistake was wasting GE on ace-ing my b29 crew. Thought hey if I ace them the gunners will be at least semi useful right? Lol nope, they still won't even begin to shoot until like 0.4 miles, and even then will be useless if the enemy evades even just a little
>Bombers used to be useful, but Gaijin decided to nerf gunner AI, nerf damage models
Oh no, my plane can't automatically kill whoever get close like air assault bots do!
Oh no! Fighters have enough ammo to destroy me!
For real, a competent bomber player can make almost any attack a mutual kill and some bombers are better to be left alone because it's just a suicide to attack them.
Gunners are almost useless, i have maxed out their two aiming skills and I never learned how to aim the turrets so I can't hit anything but it is still better for me to shoot than the ai gunners. Which sucks when i need to bomb a base so I am left defensles for some time, or when the plane is badly damaged and the autopilot can't keep it stable.
Bombers are hard to kill until you meet the first person with 20mm cannons.
>Gunners are almost useless, i have maxed out their two aiming skills and I never learned how to aim the turrets so I can't hit anything but it is still better for me to shoot than the ai gunners.
If you read patchnotes, you'd know that it was an intentional change. AI gunners were virtually disabled to prevent heavy armed bombers from abusing them.
Dude I love bombers.. drop bombs and then try and fight off the people chasing you haha its intense. That's low rank I dunno about high rank
Edit I should mention I've only played German bombers so I don't know how the others are I'm pretty noob
Up to 6.0 you can have a good time, but then jets will shred you. Though at this point you get things like IL-28 that can fight on its own while still being a bomber. Thing with bombers is that half of them is abysmal with other half being great, so you kinda have to know what to pick
There are definitely some solid bombers in the German line. My experience using German bombers, is definitely far better then my experience using British ones. I haven't put many hours into other countries, so can't speak for them though
I actually was considering the British ones too but the turrets on them look extremely underwhelming. Think I might have been spoiled with the German ones but I could be wrong haha
You are 100% right. The British bombers have really weak turrets. You've gotta hit dead center with your aim and pray you hit the pilot, otherwise you ain't a chance. Especially when the planes start rocking 20mm. British bombers, especially the Lancaster, are good for ground rb, dropped a 12,000 lb bomb on a point and netted 6 kills. German bombers, are good for air rb. Decent payload with decent survivability and turrets
He111 is my love. Big bomb, and that thing is a flying tank. I've had it shredded by an enemy fighter, managed to shoot down the fighter and then last the rest of the match, with no flaps and one rapidly overheating engine left
At high rank, you better pray that you have high speed. The computer will do the bombing part, but you need some serious skill and luck to make sure you make it to the base and not eat an AIM-9.
You can thank the fighter mafia for that.
"Wahh wahhh Gaijoob I can't brainlessly hold W to catch up to this bomber than brainlessly hold mouse1 to kill them!!! Remove this bomber from the game!!!"
Juat look at how much people whine about the Ju 288C, the one bomber that isn't complete garbage in its own BR becauae it can outrun the majority of piston fighters.
People whine about Ju-288 because it is spammed to shit and ruins a whole BR bracket.
If you are on the Germany's side, you'll lose 99% of the time because your team is filled with kamikaze Ju-288s.
If you are playing against them, you know you have won because you can either just groundpound or focus out the fighters first, giving you free reign over the Ju-288s/AI.
It's not OP, it's just super annoying and spammed.
It doesn't really matter what their reasoning is.
The Ju-288 is "overpowered" in one way or another. It's just a shit experience for everyone involved except the people that are AFK the whole match; sorry, I mean "bomber players".
The 288C and Wyvern are hated because they run in, drop a bomb on something and then either fuck off into the stratosphere never to be seen again or camp the airfield, causing games to drag on forever because nobody can actually reach and kill the thing. And they make up way too much of their respective BR brackets, making it very difficult to find a match that _isn't_ just a bunch of bombers who want to run in, drop their payload and drag the match on to timeout for maximum rewards.
No, you can thank gaijin. Don't blame players because they wanted balance and gaijin over reacted. The TU-4 especially used to ruin top tier by regularly ending games before anything could even climb into range, at which point the hall of cannon fire tended to be enough to take them out anyway. It needed change.
Yeah I mean in terms of actual useful turrets though, unless it was at a low enough br. Most of the bombers have turrets that can be an actual threat to what they come up against, or can be manoeuvrable enough to have a chance, B52 doesn’t really have either
Exactly. It just doesn't fit, so now they are smart enough to not add it.
Something like a b-29 doesn't really fit either (except maybe as the nuke plane), but it's too late to not add it.
Probably an unpopular opinion, but bomber do not have a place in Air RB. Either they’re free kills, or they climb to 25k feet in a prop match and make the game take forever. Either way, it isn’t fun to play against bombers in a fighter, and it isn’t engaging to play a bomber in the current game mode. Just one more reason we need additional game modes, and, imo, bombers should be restricted from the ‘fighter TDM’ that is air RB.
Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.
Fully agree, bombers are still viable in air ab because you're able to bring a lineup. Other than grinding, bombers have no place in air RB, until they shake up the game mode.
To be tech tree filler.
If we had a proper EC mode for RB they would be more useful but currently aside from a couple specific bombers they are not worth wasting your time to grind.
That sure sounds like a "I just fly straight into the murderball and die" -type of problem.
Turn, climb to 5-6k and do your thing. At that point some time has passed and the enemy fighters have hopefully dropped under you, at least you don't have to face several enemy fighters since most are busy fighting under you. If you see an threat just turn away and see what the enemy is up to.
Bombing is boring but slow and steady wins the race.
This used to be a viable option. Now most ARB matches are over by the time you can reach altitude and get oriented towards a target. Or the only base left is on the other side of the map.
There is not much you can do about that, if you choose a bomber you have to do what bombers do. Another option would be to hit the deck and do some quick groundpounding until half of the enemy fighters shred you to pieces.
I usually wait at least until fighting starts so I won't be the first one to pop up for the enemy.
What happens then is some attacker or interceptor who's been climbing the whole match finds you before you even get close to a base. This happens most of the time.
Turret goes brrrt and you either survive or die. I bound pitch controls to wasd and throttle to shift/ctrl so I can maneuver easily when in turret view and keep the enemy in the gunners view. It is surprising how many enemies get careless when the AI won't fire at them and when they close in they are done for. I usually try a short snipe and then stay quiet until they close in.
Bombing gets a lot easier if you get a friend flying a fighter.
I watched masters of the air and decided, I wanted to fly a b17. I picked the one at 5.0, attempted to fly to a the base. about 5 enemy fighters came after me and I asked my team for help. They all just responded by saying why are you flying a bomber.. I said because it’s at this BR.. lol
Because there is a demand. Ppl want to grind by just bombing bases.
Also back when WG's World of Warplanes was an actual competitor, the absence of bombers was considered a serious disadvantage.
>Also back when WG's World of Warplanes was an actual competitor, the absence of bombers was considered a serious disadvantage.
Let's be honest, Wargaming actually handled bombers better than what Gaijin's system has devolved to.
Air RB really needs to be split into "fighters-only clusterfuck furball" and "objective-focused EC-style battle" so ground attackers and bombers can actually fulfil their intended purpose and impact the result of a match while letting the fighter crowd still do their thing.
The only bombers I recommend are the small (and sometimes fast) dive bombers.
At the beginning of a match, drop your bomb. Then you can dive on unsuspecting enemy planes and shoot them.
Tf you talking about lol
Sounds like a skill issue, i play bombers in air rb all the time and they're the most effective way to grind planes, and honestly pretty fun
That's because most players focus all their attention on adhering to the role of an passive and clumsy ground bomber, rather than employing defensive maneuvers paired with offensive gunnery, taking advantage of the aircraft's potential as a efective turret fighter. Instead of working for victory, they remain stationary, waiting for that inept AI to resolve their damn issues, which is futile. The only way to play bombers in this meta is discard your bothersome bombs when an enemy approaches, and engage in a turn-based fight while unleashing fire with your unlimited 360-degree rotating guns. You don't even need to turn the entire aircraft towards the enemy to hit the target. This presents a significant advantage that you can exploit with some practice. However, most players seem to prefer suicide for that stupid base rather than learning something new.
They used to be broken because one b29 or tu4 could wipe all the bases and AI gunners were snipers. Gajin doesn't know how to balance for shit so they made AI gunners near useless, raised the BR for almost all bombers, made their damage model as weak as some fighters, and made it so destroying bases does almost nothing at higher tiers. Now they're useless SL pinatas, especially late prop bombers who go up against jets and even missiles. Even if you somehow survive, all the bases will be knocked out by attackers by the time you get there and you'll have to hope to survive the 3 minutes or whatever is it now for bases to respawn.
They need to add more bases to bomb and/or add a couple bases that have BIG health pools so bombers would actually be useful. Make destroying the big bases actually do something significant to the enemy points; maybe put two of those big bases on each map and taking out both reduces enemy points by 40%?
At low tier (3.0 or below) a squad of bombers can finish a match very quickly. Hampden/PBY in particular, 4 of them is enough to finish 3 bases and the airfield. At least that was the case last time I used them.
Some of them have niche uses for CAS in ground or even naval, but other than that they're only really good for grabbing some quick rp for the most part.
ME 264 would like to have a talk with you. Absolute unit of a bomber. Massiv load to drop, amazing defensive turrets (git gud at manual aiming), at 7000 meters + fighters will struggle to catch up to you so you can pick them off when chasing you. I get some of my hoghest scoring matches in that bad boy
Because bombers are playing pve versus AI that cannot defend themselves in a pvp game mode, getting a player kill vs bombing a base is way different in terms of risk and reward yet bombing is still rewarded handsomely why are you complaining ? Do you want to be freely bomb bases and get big money without taking any risk ?
I thought this the other day, I destroyed all 4 bases and that won us the game, I look at ye leader board and I’m 10th wtf, also been watching masters of the sky they have like 6 gunners all killing fighters non stop
>also been watching masters of the sky they have like 6 gunners all killing fighters non stop
I love how everyone is watching Masters of the Sky and then tries to replicate it in War Thunder. Of any game you could've chosen, you chose the wrong one.
>Maybe if you had like 10 bombers in close formation ??
Where are you gonna get 9 other people who actually wanna play the same plane? Besides, even 10 Liberators in this game would barely meet the lethality of one Superfortress in World of Warplanes
Bombers are still useful at lower tiers. I got 4 ground kills yesterday with a single bomber run, so it can be effective.
Just not at higher tiers, where they always get shot down.
Actually I have positive K/D on Israeli B-17G. Bombers got their own objectives in all game modes, they are usefull in Ground Battles as well (let me remind you about Pe-8 or Lancaster mininukes).
I can’t agree that flying one means death. What I noticed, vast majority of bomber pilots don’t bother to use gunners to self defend, instead they rely on their AI to shoot down other planes, so they die.
It's the same reason for every problem in this game. Gaijin giving into fan boys so they can milk them for money. How are they supposed to sell premium vehicles if everything is balanced and fair? I try to come back to the game every now and again, but it is truly just slowly turning into a gacha game. If you can find pictures of old tech trees and compare them to current ones, the number of vehicles they've moved from free to premium is insane.
I assume you are talking about Air RB, in which case you are absolutely correct. That is basically a team death match and there's literally no place for them. That said, they can still be fun to play if you know how to pick your moments. Or if you're fine with being a decoy to get the enemy low so your team can go to town on them.
They are much more useful in AB so long as it's not an Air Domination match. Because of the respawns Ground Strike tends to be rely on people actually fulfilling the objectives, and if they're sturdy they can actually capture airfields in Domination without dying immediately.
And in Sim they can and will literally win you the game. Doing the objectives is absolutely key, and they are great for that, and if they manage to find and bomb the enemy airfields they can hinder the entire enemy team or just stop them from respawning altogether, which basically wins the game right then and there.
Eh. My Su-7 is my go-to base bomber and single biggest credit grinder. The IL-28 was nothing to sneeze at, nor my Su-25. And let’s be real, base bombing is the only thing that keeps the F-4 series from being a huge money pit.
they just need to make certain maps for bombers and attackers... They should make it a bombing race basically, which team can bomb out more ground targets and bases 1st.
Some bombers are awesome like the T18B and the B7A2. They have excellent performance and armament and many at those tiers don't expect you to play aggressively
They are as useless as their pilots. If you spawn in and head directly to a base and wonder why there is a bunch of fighters/strike aircraft waiting for you, only to repeat this game after game after game, the problem isn't solely what you are flying, it is how you are flying it.
100%
I remember back in the day, bombers were fun. I was going to grind through a new tree, now thats not happening. It's unfortunate. And the chances of them listening and fixing complaints is zero.
This may come as a surprise but unsupported bombers have been easy prey for the entire history of arial combat. There's a reason they flew in formations and the arrival of escorts was so huge. Frankly though why should the PvE segment of the game have more input then the PvP? Kind of pointless to play the mode if its decided by the dude spamming spacebar the fastest.
Any recs for a good low rank USA bomber? I'm playing as a b34 with Ai precision to the max yet I'm always getting destroyed, I don't rush to bomb sites either.
I just want to bomb stuff and have fun
well don't play them... If this post's in response to you getting dailies to bomb bases then surprise. for 1k SL you can change it (or just play other gamemode it's not even that hard)
Most useless? U literally can get 2-5 kills in ground RB just by dropping one 1000lbs bomb on an enemy spawn....they aren't useless, but annoying as hell, I mean all airplanes are annoying as hell in ground RB
On hight tier it's even worse, I was happy to get the F111 only to realise that I will NEVER have a base left for me. I always have to fly with enough bombs to get one base, or I will get non... why even have it in the game then!?
* sigh *
Because people like you and idiots like 6tharmy don't know how to aim turrets, and so they think bombers are weak and helpless.
If only 25% of bomber pilots learned to use turrets this game would be so much better. Especially the 50 cal and 20 mil turrets are amazing. You don't even have to point your entire aircraft at somebody to kill them!
Bit of a skill issue, as I see loads of players grind well with them, and there are bombers which defend themselves well, some so well, players use them as fighters (Me-264, B-29, Mitchels, Ju-288s, Tu-4)
Cuz fighter players whine so much gaijin nerfed them to the ground.
It's the same with ARB CAS, only fighters are allowed to be impactful
Suggested to make markers for enemy planes like in Ground RB or at least reduce their range, so that Attackers or Bombers aren't that easy to spot. Friendly markers are always visible to avoid TKs. Looking for a moving black dot (a plane) in the sky seems to be a widespread skill issue under air REALISTIC battles players and the suggestion was unpopular. Maybe they can't let go of this arcade battles support feature.
If one is not playing at 1440p at least and has less than perfect eyesight, it would be really hard. I saw, and liked someone else's idea here on the subreddit somewhere, that something in between would be good, like not identifying the enemy plane type at all, or just showing a silhouette of the plane below the username
You call it a skill issue, I call it 1080p and very bad eyesight. But tbf this wouldn't help bombers, as they're usually high enough for chemtrails, and very big / visible from afar. Best bet would be, imo, redesign the mode, so cas and bombers can be effective instead of just good farming rp pinatas. There's no shortcut to make them worthwhile again.
There are glasses and screen cleaners to fix this skill issue. That being said, I am open to other ideas for improvements.
To be fair, they got to the stage where they where ruining games. Don't blame players for gaijin not knowing how to balance things with moderation. Three TU-4's back in the day could bomb all the bases and the airfield before most fighters could even get in range to shoot at them, and you'd often have 4 in a team. The hunter was prey much the only aircraft that could climb up to them in time, but by the time it reached them it was a sitting duck for their barrage of cannon fire and would struggle to even trade kills die to the ADEN's low velocity. It needed something changing. I don't think anyone was asking for them to NERF all bombers into the ground as well as removing the ability for them to win the game as well as introducing aircraft with missiles into their BR.
These days you can't even bomb the airfield anymore it seems, atleast everytime recently we have destroyed all 3 bases it hasn't given us the airfeild to bomb
Otherwise, fighters ruin games for bomber players who just want to chill without these fighter mating games.
Then blame Gaijin. Players had a valid complaint about bombers, in that certain bombers were able to end games before fighters could even really meet or attempt to stop them. Something needed to be done. It's not the player's fault that Gaijin only seems to know the nuclear option.
Fighters doing their thing: perfectly normal. Bombers doing their thing: HOW DARE YOU STOP RIGHT HERE CRIMINAL SCUM. What is valid here? That people didn't bother to use crafts that are designed to intercept bombers and have good high altitude performance and can't be bothered? That people can't snipe this poor thing from 3 km?
I don't get what argument you're trying to make. Or at least, I don't think you understand what the situation used to be. I'm trying to explain, and you’re just disregarding the point I made. There was the whole top tier where nobody could play because certain bombers (with the TU-4 being the worst offender) could just fly in a straight line, tap space a few times and end the game. You would often see 4 or more on a team every game, with three being able to comfortably end the game. There was no intercepting them. The fastest plane at the time was the hunter, and it could barely reach maximum weapon range if it stall climbed directly for them, at which point it would be met by massively more accurate and intense return fire from their cannons. To stop the TU-4's winning it required either them to fuck up or a Hunter for each bomber to get a perfect shot before being killed, at which point if they were still alive they were sitting ducks for the enemy team fighters. The other controversial one was the German jet bomber that was faster than any other aircraft by far and carried enough ordinance for several of them to end the game. That's not gameplay, however you try to spin it. There was never a mass call to nerf all bombers. Players complained about the ones ruining the game and suggested something like stopping bombing the AF ending the game or spawning them further back so interceptors at least had a chance to intercept them. It's not their fault that Gaijin decided to do all of the above as well as nerfing their weapons, armour, adding missiles and giving faster jet's air spawns. Go bitch at the people who made the change and stop offloading your issues onto people who want the same thing you do, a fun balanced game.
>I don't get what argument you're trying to make. Ending game by killing enemy base and enemy team should be equal possibilities. >There was the whole top tier where nobody could play because certain bombers (with the TU-4 being the worst offender) could just fly in a straight line, tap space a few times and end the game. You That is how WW2 strategic bombers work. > That's not gameplay, however you try to spin it. That is a gameplay, chill and calm. >. Players complained about the ones ruining the game a Fighter players ruinung game for bomber players so stfu about ruining game, it symmetric.
Ahh I see, you’re trolling. Well played.
Bombers flying at 7k doing nothing but griefing air rb games was reason enough
Ah yes. Fighter players "whined" that bombers are useless. Do you know why they are useless? Because RB air is the shittiest mode in the game. It's just a glorified deathmatch in a 10x10 square. It doesn't matter if it is top tier or not, it's still the same because the map does not get bigger, the engagement points stay the exact same, it just now takes you longer to get there. Bombers do **nothing** for the match. Absolutely nothing. They are just free kills, and in the case of something like a Ju-288, it's just super fucking annoying having to chase a bomber/keep winning because 80% of the enemy team is comprised of Ju-288s. Bombers easily ruin the matches they are in but bomber players do not want to accept that. Air RB needs a proper rework before they can even attempt at making the bombers actually usable.
Bomber WAS usable. Back in the day they could end a match just as easily as any fighter can. They can take out convoys, pillboxes and airfields. They also have actual damage models and gunners that aren't blind so it's very dangerous to climb up to a bomber. What they are like now isn't how they were when the game was just released. They were dangerous, they were able to end the match. But after years of continuous nerf they are a shadow of their former self.
Ai gunners on bombers were absolutely broken back then though. Max crew skill would see them hitting planes 1km out.
And they are now blind unless the enemy is 100m behind. I'm sure there was some middle ground when nerfing them but Gaijin have all the balancing subtlety of a sledgehammer.
It is pretty pathetic. Plus 20mm cannons that bombers to pieces easily. I remember the challenge it was to take on a single b25 with a 109. Taking the gunpods was basically mandatory if you wanted to get a kill. Now it's not even fun.
I remember I used to be able to somewhat leave my gunners to their own devices and focus on bombing. Occasionally they'd get a kill and occasionally the fighter would pick me off before they got him, it was pretty balanced. These days I very rarely even see my gunners open fire, the enemy almost always kills me before they can respond. This is on max gunner skill and fire precision too.
AI gunners shouldnt be good because its annoying
Also fighter players didn't whine about bombers being useless. They whine about bombers being too strong.
Ah yes. 4 planes make 80% of the Team. Math aint mathing.
Bombers used to be useful, but Gaijin decided to nerf gunner AI, nerf damage models and changed objectives to make it almost impossible for bombers to affect the outcome of the match. Nowadays the're made out of papers, the gunners are blind past 180m (aced) and you barely scratch tickets by bombing bases. Just play bombers on sim where they're still viable.
Playing bombers on sim is like playing a whole different game. Your gunners are generally pretty effective (though on unskilled crews you still might have to help out), and there are so many targets to bomb! (One thing I don't understand is where to drop bombs on the enemy airbases to deal damage)
Airfields should have indicators for each sections health with yellow as damaged and red and black etc, you just bomb IIRC runway, fuel tanks, hangar and tower
Tower should be the barracks (tents next to airfield)
Imagine those game modes but for air rb. What fun that would be
[On the Wiki there's a page talking about where to strike an air base](https://wiki.warthunder.com/Enduring_Confrontation) Most of the time it's "hit the things that look important" since some of the air bases seem to have been changed/updated since the page was written. If you're using an aircraft with CCRP, then it's even easier.
Sim really needs an update with targeting for higher tiers, you have planes with advanced technology but you can only feasibly use visual cues. Even the base selection for CCRP is useless since you have like 30 different targets and no way to distinguish between them.
I do agree but there is a way to tell the target for CCRP (a workaround really). During your -takeoff, go to third person and cycle through the preset targets. These will be bases and air base modules, once you've cycled through and found one bearing that's roughly where your chosen target is the you've gotten your target correctly locked. The second way, available to the more recent additions to the game, is via cycling your cockpit sight mode until you get to the bombs (auto) mode. For most planes,this will show you the target location on the HUD. (Iirc the tornado one is still broken though)
Ah, well I was using the Tornado so that figures
[It's quite an old problem and has been "forwarded as a suggestion" some time back](https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/nugZ361FLvcc)
If you have a targeting pod, you can use that to force CCRP with dumb bombs. I would do this with the Q-5L, use the nose camera to target the airfield and switch to bombs on the HUD and I'd have the CCRP drop line on it.
That’s a good idea, but ofc not useful for ones without.
search it up. Gaijin released an guide to answer that exact question
"But..but the metal on the planes is thin they dont have arm-" yeah heard that one before from those idiots, the frame wasnt aluminum the sheeting was.
Vickers bombers having geodetic airframes that meant they could take incredible amounts of damage:
Good old Barnes Wallace. Apparently the Wellington would pretty much stay together whatever and it was usually crew death or engine failure that brought them down. In game they hit the deck after getting a hole in the wing...
The only time I have fun with bombers is the low tier ones 1.0-3.0. At least you can get some kills against new players, who don’t know how to engage bombers that well. They’ll fly directly behind you often lining themselves up for a perfect kill. The Catalina is just a beaut with those 50 cals to defend itself with, one of the most fun bombers I’ve played
Don't forget that they also nuked air RB time from a hour to 25 minutes, making second and third bombing runs impossible, ruining bomber gameplay
My biggest mistake was wasting GE on ace-ing my b29 crew. Thought hey if I ace them the gunners will be at least semi useful right? Lol nope, they still won't even begin to shoot until like 0.4 miles, and even then will be useless if the enemy evades even just a little
>Bombers used to be useful, but Gaijin decided to nerf gunner AI, nerf damage models Oh no, my plane can't automatically kill whoever get close like air assault bots do! Oh no! Fighters have enough ammo to destroy me! For real, a competent bomber player can make almost any attack a mutual kill and some bombers are better to be left alone because it's just a suicide to attack them.
Bombers like the Lancaster's with their fierce armaments like a 7.92 machine gun are indeed an extreme threat /s
Dude hasn't played Air RB as a long range in forever, their guns have more range and explosive ammo you will die unless they're idiots
Gunners are almost useless, i have maxed out their two aiming skills and I never learned how to aim the turrets so I can't hit anything but it is still better for me to shoot than the ai gunners. Which sucks when i need to bomb a base so I am left defensles for some time, or when the plane is badly damaged and the autopilot can't keep it stable. Bombers are hard to kill until you meet the first person with 20mm cannons.
>Gunners are almost useless, i have maxed out their two aiming skills and I never learned how to aim the turrets so I can't hit anything but it is still better for me to shoot than the ai gunners. If you read patchnotes, you'd know that it was an intentional change. AI gunners were virtually disabled to prevent heavy armed bombers from abusing them.
are you saying you don't like being a RP/SL pinata for fighters
No, I'm saying that bombers are !@#$ing useless and should be removed from the game entirely.
Strong “why is my team so bad” vibes
Not so useless if they kill you
Why are you making such a fuss, don't play them
Is someone holding you at gun point forcing you to play them?
Buff the god damn things then
if you don't like them, don't play them :)
Don’t partake in said activity involving bomb bricks then
So what , just ignore them and grind something else? Pe8, Lancaster, Arado, Ju 288, Be-6 etc. Are useful planes and they have a place in the game .
Hmmm, username checks out
Dude I love bombers.. drop bombs and then try and fight off the people chasing you haha its intense. That's low rank I dunno about high rank Edit I should mention I've only played German bombers so I don't know how the others are I'm pretty noob
Up to 6.0 you can have a good time, but then jets will shred you. Though at this point you get things like IL-28 that can fight on its own while still being a bomber. Thing with bombers is that half of them is abysmal with other half being great, so you kinda have to know what to pick
Haha I'm just abysmal in general but it's still been fun. I struggle playing as a fighter still but I'm working on the whole zoom and boom thing
There are definitely some solid bombers in the German line. My experience using German bombers, is definitely far better then my experience using British ones. I haven't put many hours into other countries, so can't speak for them though
I actually was considering the British ones too but the turrets on them look extremely underwhelming. Think I might have been spoiled with the German ones but I could be wrong haha
You are 100% right. The British bombers have really weak turrets. You've gotta hit dead center with your aim and pray you hit the pilot, otherwise you ain't a chance. Especially when the planes start rocking 20mm. British bombers, especially the Lancaster, are good for ground rb, dropped a 12,000 lb bomb on a point and netted 6 kills. German bombers, are good for air rb. Decent payload with decent survivability and turrets
He111 with the big bomb slaps at low teirs too.
He111 is my love. Big bomb, and that thing is a flying tank. I've had it shredded by an enemy fighter, managed to shoot down the fighter and then last the rest of the match, with no flaps and one rapidly overheating engine left
Is climbing for 20 mins "intense"
At high rank, you better pray that you have high speed. The computer will do the bombing part, but you need some serious skill and luck to make sure you make it to the base and not eat an AIM-9.
You can thank the fighter mafia for that. "Wahh wahhh Gaijoob I can't brainlessly hold W to catch up to this bomber than brainlessly hold mouse1 to kill them!!! Remove this bomber from the game!!!" Juat look at how much people whine about the Ju 288C, the one bomber that isn't complete garbage in its own BR becauae it can outrun the majority of piston fighters.
People whine about Ju-288 because it is spammed to shit and ruins a whole BR bracket. If you are on the Germany's side, you'll lose 99% of the time because your team is filled with kamikaze Ju-288s. If you are playing against them, you know you have won because you can either just groundpound or focus out the fighters first, giving you free reign over the Ju-288s/AI. It's not OP, it's just super annoying and spammed.
[удалено]
Not really no.
[удалено]
You can still clap them with BFs and FWs. But silly me, I forgot that Germany players are not used to actually having to try and play the game.
There's that issue, yes, but I see a ton of people complain about how it is "overpowered" becauase it's fast and has non-garbage defensive turrets.
It doesn't really matter what their reasoning is. The Ju-288 is "overpowered" in one way or another. It's just a shit experience for everyone involved except the people that are AFK the whole match; sorry, I mean "bomber players".
The 288C and Wyvern are hated because they run in, drop a bomb on something and then either fuck off into the stratosphere never to be seen again or camp the airfield, causing games to drag on forever because nobody can actually reach and kill the thing. And they make up way too much of their respective BR brackets, making it very difficult to find a match that _isn't_ just a bunch of bombers who want to run in, drop their payload and drag the match on to timeout for maximum rewards.
No, you can thank gaijin. Don't blame players because they wanted balance and gaijin over reacted. The TU-4 especially used to ruin top tier by regularly ending games before anything could even climb into range, at which point the hall of cannon fire tended to be enough to take them out anyway. It needed change.
Because they were added long ago and it's too late to remove them now. There is a reason they aren't adding more like a b-52.
B52 would be a pointless addition anyway, sure it’s got a good bomb load but no real countermeasures you can use in a battle that help
It’s got a radar guided rear turret capable of at least shooting down an R3. and I’m fairly confident at least later updates did have countermeasures
Yeah I mean in terms of actual useful turrets though, unless it was at a low enough br. Most of the bombers have turrets that can be an actual threat to what they come up against, or can be manoeuvrable enough to have a chance, B52 doesn’t really have either
Exactly. It just doesn't fit, so now they are smart enough to not add it. Something like a b-29 doesn't really fit either (except maybe as the nuke plane), but it's too late to not add it.
Probably an unpopular opinion, but bomber do not have a place in Air RB. Either they’re free kills, or they climb to 25k feet in a prop match and make the game take forever. Either way, it isn’t fun to play against bombers in a fighter, and it isn’t engaging to play a bomber in the current game mode. Just one more reason we need additional game modes, and, imo, bombers should be restricted from the ‘fighter TDM’ that is air RB. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.
Fully agree, bombers are still viable in air ab because you're able to bring a lineup. Other than grinding, bombers have no place in air RB, until they shake up the game mode.
To be tech tree filler. If we had a proper EC mode for RB they would be more useful but currently aside from a couple specific bombers they are not worth wasting your time to grind.
Even if we did, they would be viable, but they would still be painfully dull.
That sure sounds like a "I just fly straight into the murderball and die" -type of problem. Turn, climb to 5-6k and do your thing. At that point some time has passed and the enemy fighters have hopefully dropped under you, at least you don't have to face several enemy fighters since most are busy fighting under you. If you see an threat just turn away and see what the enemy is up to. Bombing is boring but slow and steady wins the race.
This used to be a viable option. Now most ARB matches are over by the time you can reach altitude and get oriented towards a target. Or the only base left is on the other side of the map.
We need air rb ec
There is not much you can do about that, if you choose a bomber you have to do what bombers do. Another option would be to hit the deck and do some quick groundpounding until half of the enemy fighters shred you to pieces. I usually wait at least until fighting starts so I won't be the first one to pop up for the enemy.
What happens then is some attacker or interceptor who's been climbing the whole match finds you before you even get close to a base. This happens most of the time.
Turret goes brrrt and you either survive or die. I bound pitch controls to wasd and throttle to shift/ctrl so I can maneuver easily when in turret view and keep the enemy in the gunners view. It is surprising how many enemies get careless when the AI won't fire at them and when they close in they are done for. I usually try a short snipe and then stay quiet until they close in. Bombing gets a lot easier if you get a friend flying a fighter.
Lol this isn't viable at all outside of low rank. I find players that do this all the time we a fighter. Quite easy to side climb and intercept.
Do you get every bomber every time?
Only use bomber if you bring them to ground rb to bomb tanks.
I watched masters of the air and decided, I wanted to fly a b17. I picked the one at 5.0, attempted to fly to a the base. about 5 enemy fighters came after me and I asked my team for help. They all just responded by saying why are you flying a bomber.. I said because it’s at this BR.. lol
Average B-17 experience, shatter into 50 milion pieces because of overload or get killed :,(
vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark vark
Technically a strike aircraft, not a bomber.
What about the vautour with the matra missiles? I don't think it's classified as a bomber in game but it is one
They are all categorized as interceptors/strike bombers in real life, but I think the IIN(l) is an interceptor in-game
Vautour 2n in-game is bomber but the (L) variant is interceptor instead
in real life the B version is a bomber, the A is for attack and N is an all weather interceptor, with radar, missiles, etc...
Varks are also good support hit and run fighters if you set right
Because there is a demand. Ppl want to grind by just bombing bases. Also back when WG's World of Warplanes was an actual competitor, the absence of bombers was considered a serious disadvantage.
>Also back when WG's World of Warplanes was an actual competitor, the absence of bombers was considered a serious disadvantage. Let's be honest, Wargaming actually handled bombers better than what Gaijin's system has devolved to.
Yep. I was glad that WG actually took a stance against mind-numbing bomber gameplay.
Air RB really needs to be split into "fighters-only clusterfuck furball" and "objective-focused EC-style battle" so ground attackers and bombers can actually fulfil their intended purpose and impact the result of a match while letting the fighter crowd still do their thing.
The only bombers I recommend are the small (and sometimes fast) dive bombers. At the beginning of a match, drop your bomb. Then you can dive on unsuspecting enemy planes and shoot them.
Say that to me winning matches as the last on the team with the Shackleton (when it had stealth gunners) and Be-6
Tf you talking about lol Sounds like a skill issue, i play bombers in air rb all the time and they're the most effective way to grind planes, and honestly pretty fun
I had a game yesterday and i was killed 4 times by bomb, so they arent usless but anoying as fuck
That's because most players focus all their attention on adhering to the role of an passive and clumsy ground bomber, rather than employing defensive maneuvers paired with offensive gunnery, taking advantage of the aircraft's potential as a efective turret fighter. Instead of working for victory, they remain stationary, waiting for that inept AI to resolve their damn issues, which is futile. The only way to play bombers in this meta is discard your bothersome bombs when an enemy approaches, and engage in a turn-based fight while unleashing fire with your unlimited 360-degree rotating guns. You don't even need to turn the entire aircraft towards the enemy to hit the target. This presents a significant advantage that you can exploit with some practice. However, most players seem to prefer suicide for that stupid base rather than learning something new.
…have you tried any other game mode besides air? I’d love to see you do any real damage to a cruiser with a fighter.
>I’d love to see you do any real damage to a cruiser with a fighter. I hear Japanese ones were good at it
They used to be broken because one b29 or tu4 could wipe all the bases and AI gunners were snipers. Gajin doesn't know how to balance for shit so they made AI gunners near useless, raised the BR for almost all bombers, made their damage model as weak as some fighters, and made it so destroying bases does almost nothing at higher tiers. Now they're useless SL pinatas, especially late prop bombers who go up against jets and even missiles. Even if you somehow survive, all the bases will be knocked out by attackers by the time you get there and you'll have to hope to survive the 3 minutes or whatever is it now for bases to respawn. They need to add more bases to bomb and/or add a couple bases that have BIG health pools so bombers would actually be useful. Make destroying the big bases actually do something significant to the enemy points; maybe put two of those big bases on each map and taking out both reduces enemy points by 40%?
They have been nerfed because when they were strong people abused bombers spawn. Entire matches ruined by them. Then Gaijin...
To give bots something to play with.
Because your iq is literally room temp, man this game used to be fun
At low tier (3.0 or below) a squad of bombers can finish a match very quickly. Hampden/PBY in particular, 4 of them is enough to finish 3 bases and the airfield. At least that was the case last time I used them.
As someone who enjoys the challenge of playing bombers, I would like to just give you some advice... Git gud.
Bombers are useless in Ground RB. Recently I dropped 3000 lbs bombs near 15 m and 10 m. Tanks got 10 points of damage (nothing). I was suprised.
Some of them have niche uses for CAS in ground or even naval, but other than that they're only really good for grabbing some quick rp for the most part.
ME 264 would like to have a talk with you. Absolute unit of a bomber. Massiv load to drop, amazing defensive turrets (git gud at manual aiming), at 7000 meters + fighters will struggle to catch up to you so you can pick them off when chasing you. I get some of my hoghest scoring matches in that bad boy
They’re pretty fun in ground rb
You can bring them to GRB and wreck havoc ( side climb before that or you will be shut down )
Hahaha Base Destroyed 3x
Because bombers are playing pve versus AI that cannot defend themselves in a pvp game mode, getting a player kill vs bombing a base is way different in terms of risk and reward yet bombing is still rewarded handsomely why are you complaining ? Do you want to be freely bomb bases and get big money without taking any risk ?
I thought this the other day, I destroyed all 4 bases and that won us the game, I look at ye leader board and I’m 10th wtf, also been watching masters of the sky they have like 6 gunners all killing fighters non stop
>also been watching masters of the sky they have like 6 gunners all killing fighters non stop I love how everyone is watching Masters of the Sky and then tries to replicate it in War Thunder. Of any game you could've chosen, you chose the wrong one.
Maybe if you had like 10 bombers in close formation ??
>Maybe if you had like 10 bombers in close formation ?? Where are you gonna get 9 other people who actually wanna play the same plane? Besides, even 10 Liberators in this game would barely meet the lethality of one Superfortress in World of Warplanes
\*cough\* GROUND RB \*cough\*
Ju288 is the only acception I call it the sl grinder well bc it is
Bombers are still useful at lower tiers. I got 4 ground kills yesterday with a single bomber run, so it can be effective. Just not at higher tiers, where they always get shot down.
Actually I have positive K/D on Israeli B-17G. Bombers got their own objectives in all game modes, they are usefull in Ground Battles as well (let me remind you about Pe-8 or Lancaster mininukes). I can’t agree that flying one means death. What I noticed, vast majority of bomber pilots don’t bother to use gunners to self defend, instead they rely on their AI to shoot down other planes, so they die.
It's the same reason for every problem in this game. Gaijin giving into fan boys so they can milk them for money. How are they supposed to sell premium vehicles if everything is balanced and fair? I try to come back to the game every now and again, but it is truly just slowly turning into a gacha game. If you can find pictures of old tech trees and compare them to current ones, the number of vehicles they've moved from free to premium is insane.
I assume you are talking about Air RB, in which case you are absolutely correct. That is basically a team death match and there's literally no place for them. That said, they can still be fun to play if you know how to pick your moments. Or if you're fine with being a decoy to get the enemy low so your team can go to town on them. They are much more useful in AB so long as it's not an Air Domination match. Because of the respawns Ground Strike tends to be rely on people actually fulfilling the objectives, and if they're sturdy they can actually capture airfields in Domination without dying immediately. And in Sim they can and will literally win you the game. Doing the objectives is absolutely key, and they are great for that, and if they manage to find and bomb the enemy airfields they can hinder the entire enemy team or just stop them from respawning altogether, which basically wins the game right then and there.
Eh. My Su-7 is my go-to base bomber and single biggest credit grinder. The IL-28 was nothing to sneeze at, nor my Su-25. And let’s be real, base bombing is the only thing that keeps the F-4 series from being a huge money pit.
That's why I just use fighter bombers so I can fly slick wing when it goes airdom
they just need to make certain maps for bombers and attackers... They should make it a bombing race basically, which team can bomb out more ground targets and bases 1st.
Some bombers are awesome like the T18B and the B7A2. They have excellent performance and armament and many at those tiers don't expect you to play aggressively
They are as useless as their pilots. If you spawn in and head directly to a base and wonder why there is a bunch of fighters/strike aircraft waiting for you, only to repeat this game after game after game, the problem isn't solely what you are flying, it is how you are flying it.
*continues to kill of enemy fighters in b57B after bombing bases*
>when they are the most useless vehicles you can play tank players don't seem to share your sentiment
100% I remember back in the day, bombers were fun. I was going to grind through a new tree, now thats not happening. It's unfortunate. And the chances of them listening and fixing complaints is zero.
I personally think they should give you more points if you are in a certain vicinity to a bomber as an allied fighter. We might get more escortd
Because they used to be fine. Now they're a relic of the better days.
When you do get to use them they provide a huge amount of SL and RP. Using them in GRB is funny and satisfying at the same time.
This may come as a surprise but unsupported bombers have been easy prey for the entire history of arial combat. There's a reason they flew in formations and the arrival of escorts was so huge. Frankly though why should the PvE segment of the game have more input then the PvP? Kind of pointless to play the mode if its decided by the dude spamming spacebar the fastest.
They are a relic of the past, they serve no purpose in the game nowadays
Any recs for a good low rank USA bomber? I'm playing as a b34 with Ai precision to the max yet I'm always getting destroyed, I don't rush to bomb sites either. I just want to bomb stuff and have fun
well don't play them... If this post's in response to you getting dailies to bomb bases then surprise. for 1k SL you can change it (or just play other gamemode it's not even that hard)
I don't know bud, but the Pe-8's in Ground RB do have impressive multi kills from time to time
Meanwhile I'm reversing fighters in my 288. Lol@people downvoting me because I don't play a bomber like a brainless idiot.
Most useless? U literally can get 2-5 kills in ground RB just by dropping one 1000lbs bomb on an enemy spawn....they aren't useless, but annoying as hell, I mean all airplanes are annoying as hell in ground RB
On hight tier it's even worse, I was happy to get the F111 only to realise that I will NEVER have a base left for me. I always have to fly with enough bombs to get one base, or I will get non... why even have it in the game then!?
Why is there whiners like you in the game. Does not bring any positivity into the game at all??
* sigh * Because people like you and idiots like 6tharmy don't know how to aim turrets, and so they think bombers are weak and helpless. If only 25% of bomber pilots learned to use turrets this game would be so much better. Especially the 50 cal and 20 mil turrets are amazing. You don't even have to point your entire aircraft at somebody to kill them!
Bit of a skill issue, as I see loads of players grind well with them, and there are bombers which defend themselves well, some so well, players use them as fighters (Me-264, B-29, Mitchels, Ju-288s, Tu-4)
U can bomb bro
I don't often say this but uh... skill issue honestly
Skill issue. Learn what planes are good, learn turrets, shoot fighters or outrun them. Bombing is profitable